El momento en que Luis Alejandro Ordóñez llegó a Chicago marcó un giro decisivo en su vida creativa. Aunque había escrito durante sus años en Venezuela, fue este cambio geográfico el que transformó la escritura de una actividad secundaria a su identidad principal. Como politólogo que trabajaba en Venezuela y enseñaba a nivel universitario, la migración lo obligó a replantearse su identidad profesional y a adentrarse más en los círculos literarios, comenzando con un evento literario en español durante su primer mes en Chicago. “Fue aquí donde eso se convirtió en lo principal”, explica, capturando un cambio profundo que muchos inmigrantes creativos viven, pero que pocos articulan con tanta claridad.
Luis Alejandro es un escritor venezolano que vive en Estados Unidos desde 2008. Es autor de las novelas Aquí no encontrarás a Weeping Sally, Si me muero, abre estos archivos, El último New York Times y del libro de relatos Play. También ha editado las antologías Los mecanismos del instante y Con la urgencia del instante. Entre 2021 y 2022 fue mentor en el Writers Mentorship Program de LatinX in Publishing. Estudió Estudios Políticos en la Universidad Central de Venezuela.
Lo que distingue el proceso de Lusi Alejandro es su practicidad — siempre lleva una libreta para anotar ideas, separando la inspiración de la ejecución. Sus novelas nacen de momentos inesperados: una referencia a Saramago inspiró The Last New York Times, mientras que el clima cambiante de Chicago dio origen a You Won’t Find Weeping Sally.
“Sé más intuitivo y menos lógico”, aconseja — una sabiduría que resuena tanto en los creativos como en los inmigrantes que aprenden a confiar en sus instintos en territorios desconocidos.
La oficina de Luis Alejandro Ordóñez: www.laoficinadeluis.com
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Daniela SM (00:01):
Hola, soy Daniela.
Bienvenidos a mi podcast.
Porque todos tenemos unahistoria que contar.
Este es el espacio donde lashistorias de las personas
encuentran un lugar para serconectadas, compartidas y
recordadas, porque nuestrashistorias son el lenguaje que
nos conecta, así que comparte,conecta y disfruta.
(00:22):
Porque sí, todos tenemos unahistoria que contar.
Hoy tengo el gusto de conversarcon Luis Alejandro Ordóñez, un
escritor y politólogo venezolanocon una historia fascinante de
migración, identidad ycreatividad.
Lo más bonito de este encuentroes que Luis Alejandro fue mi
(00:42):
vecino en Caracas, el cafetal enVenezuela, y, después de 34
años de haber dejado Venezuela,me encontré con un libro de él.
Su estilo de escritura mefascinó.
No podía dejar el libro Y poreso quería que estuviera en el
podcast para que nos contara suhistoria, compartir nuestras
vivencias y descubrir cómo suvoz y su inspiración han
(01:07):
evolucionado en tierrasextranjeras.
Vamos a disfrutar su historia.
Bienvenido, luis AlejandroOrdóñez, al show de Porque Todos
Tenemos Una Historia Que Contar.
Luis Alejandro Ordóñez (01:17):
Gracias, gracias por la oportunidad,
gracias por dejarme participar,un placer realmente.
Daniela SM (01:21):
Sí, estoy muy contenta de que estés aquí.
Of course, how do we know eachother?
We were neighbors, but you'remuch younger than me so you
didn't pay much attention to us.
But you're a friend of my bestfriend, Carlos Alfredo Guzmán.
I saw him a few months ago andhe showed me a book that is
written by you, so I took it off, I've been reading it and, well
(01:42):
, I decided that it would begreat por ti se lo quité.
Lo he estado leyendo y, bueno,decidí que sería buenísimo que
estuvieras aquí con nosotrospara que nos contaras tu
historia y cómo llegaste a serel escritor que eres ahora.
Luis Alejandro Ordóñez (01:51):
Gracias, gracias, sí, excelente, Me
encanta la oportunidad.
Y qué bueno que primero quehayas hecho de nuevo contacto,
porque había sido muchos años,sí, sin saber nada uno del otro.
Y Carlos siempre es bueno, éles el amigo de todos, ¿no?
Entonces él mantiene a todo elmundo en contacto de alguna u
otra manera.
Entonces, bueno, es un lujocontar con él porque, de verdad,
(02:12):
gracias a él, el libro está enAlemania, Gracias a él este
contacto siempre es como un lujotenerlo de tu lado.
Daniela SM (02:21):
Sí, buenísimo de que seas el escritor que eres ahora
.
Quiero que cuentes cómo empiezatu historia.
Yes, great that you are thewriter you are now.
I want you to tell us how yourstory begins.
Luis Alejandro Ordóñez (02:27):
I thought a lot about that
question, because from where toreally start?
And I think that I like to saythat the writer I am now begins
with my move to the UnitedStates, precisely because, at
the time I moved to the UnitedStates, I had to make decisions.
And one Precisamente porque enel momento en que me mudó a
Estados Unidos, tengo que tomardecisiones, y una de las
decisiones fue hacer contactocon la comunidad literaria en
(02:49):
español de Chicago.
Eso fue lo que reseteó elcamino hasta hoy.
Cuando yo llegué a Chicago,agosto 2008,.
En septiembre 2008, estabanentregando un premio literario
de una revista, la revistaContratiempo premios for a story
, a story written in Spanish.
Well, I went to the awardceremony.
Luckily, they had a whole awardceremony event.
(03:10):
There are other awards that aresimply administrative right.
You find out by email that youwon or that you lost it, and
there is nothing else.
This had an award ceremony, soI could attend, and there I met
a number of people who are stillpart of my network of friends
in the United States, and therebegan a path of reinvention, yes
(03:32):
, of reinterpretation of what Iwas doing, but also a new path,
because being a writer or beingin the cultural community, in
Spain, in the United States.
That puts you in contact with aseries of issues, problems,
claims that were not presentwhen one was in Venezuela.
And I also like to mark thatpath because, although I have
(03:55):
written all my life, all my lifeI have worked in my writing.
It was always like an activity,like who says annex, it was
other thing that I did was here,where that became the main
thing tell me, because I chosechicago chicago.
well, it was a mutual decisionwith my wife, because my sister
(04:18):
lives in chicago, in theoutskirts of chicago, in
naperville, then I knew the city.
When you have a opportunity todo a postgraduate degree, it has
three positive answers and theywere precisely San Francisco,
new York and Chicago.
It was an important decision tochoose because there were three
extremes, to say it like thatno coast to the west, coast to
the east, midwest and in reality, there was no way to decide
(04:41):
between the programs asinteresting as the Chicago one.
To be able to make the decision,we resorted to the personal.
No había forma de decidir entrelos programas tan interesantes
como el de Chicago.
Para poder tomar la decisiónRecurrimos a lo personal, la
presencia de familia cercana enuna ciudad que yo, en mi caso,
conocía más que cualquiera delas otras dos.
De hecho, en Nueva York, solovacaciones.
San Francisco no la conozco, Yesa decisión fue lo que me
permitió también hacer unainvestigación de qué iba a hacer
(05:02):
yo, me iba a ensartar yo en esadecisión que me permitió, which
also allowed me to do aninvestigation of what I was
going to do.
I was going to get stuck inthat decision that allowed me to
quickly and I knew more thanother cities to get to the
centers that interested me.
Daniela SM (05:14):
And what did you do before leaving?
What is the story, a little bit, of when you were living in
Venezuela?
Luis Alejandro Ordóñez (05:18):
I am a political scientist.
I graduated in politicalstudies from the Central
University of Venezuela and atthat time I worked in political
studies from the CentralUniversity of Venezuela and at
that time I worked in politicalcommunication.
I worked in the mayor's officein a department called Strategic
Analysis.
It was a department of advisoryon issues of opinion, of public
opinion, at the office of themayor and I also taught classes
(05:40):
at the Catholic UniversityAndrés Bello in political
communication, at the School ofSocial Communication.
I taught politicalcommunication Very good en la
Universidad Católica AndrésBello de Comunicación Política,
en la Escuela de ComunicaciónSocial de Aba Comunicación
Política Muy bien.
Daniela SM (05:48):
La otra cosa que también he escuchado, bueno,
carlos, dice que tú eres unhombre sumamente inteligente ¡Ah
, caramba, gracias, gracias,gracias.
No bueno Sí eso no es fácil.
No es fácil que uno tiene, quesabes, una responsabilidad muy
grande.
Luis Alejandro Ordóñez (06:06):
Sí, sí, sí, Bueno, pero la inteligencia
no es muy práctica.
La verdad que no soy un tipoasí muy práctico.
Entonces, ¿cómo es eso?
Los problemas de la vidacotidiana, suelo no resolverlos
demasiado bien, sino más bienproblematizarlos muy bien, no
resolverlos.
La inteligencia a veces tienesus contrapartes, el lado
filosófico, a Exactly the sideof the project of well, if it
(06:45):
works, we continue.
Venezuela was already offeringfew opportunities for growth and
, yes, it worked.
Here we continue.
Daniela SM (06:53):
Yes, so they decided to stay.
They stayed in Chicago or theymoved to another place.
Luis Alejandro Ordóñez (06:57):
At the age of 8 or 9 years of living in
Chicago, we moved to Miami, andI continue here.
Daniela SM (07:02):
Is this because of the climate, or what?
Luis Alejandro Ordóñez (07:05):
Well, yes, because of the climate.
The truth is that Chicago is avery beautiful city with many
things, but it's a city of fouror six months.
The other months of cold aredifficult to manage.
Miami also offers moreopportunities for professional
growth.
In literary terms.
Miami in Spanish is also veryactive, very attractive.
Miami in Spanish is also veryactive, very attractive, and an
(07:28):
element that it does not haveperhaps in Chicago is that it is
much more connected with therest of Latin America.
In Chicago, the city itself is acity that presumes a lot of
being self-sufficient.
Chicago is Chicago and thatpermeates into all the things in
the city, including thecultural movement in Spanish.
We triumphed in Chicago andthen, well, the world knows us
(07:53):
and that's very interesting,that's very important.
That gives a vitality to thatmovement that is difficult to
find and a singularity too.
But in Miami, miami is veryclose to Latin America.
So there are many peoplethinking about what happens in
the rest of Latin America, whathappens in Spain, much more than
what is thought in Chicago.
So in that sense it is anothervery important, very interesting
(08:18):
, but completely new, differentfor one two different movements,
(08:40):
two different postures due tothe shape of the city and the
way the city is conceived, Ithink, very interesting.
Thank you for and in fact, I hadsemi-published because I worked
for magazines or did somethings, participated in some
events.
I published a novel on my own,but it was always like an
additional adventure.
Yes, I always wrote, I alwaysparticipated in workshops.
(09:02):
In fact, all my training as awriter is in Venezuela.
But here, as I say, myperspective changed a bit too.
Here I write and do otherthings, which is also, again, a
change of perspective.
Everything perspectives areimportant it changes the point
(09:24):
of view.
Yes, you have to change thepoints of view because things
change.
Daniela SM (09:29):
I think I understood that you decided that you were
going to be a writer anddedicate yourself more to that.
How did you feel?
Because, of course, being awriter is not the same as having
a job that you know from 9 to 5, that they give you a salary.
So what are you know?
Do you have fears?
Luis Alejandro Ordóñez (09:45):
¿Cuáles son sabes?
Tienes los miedos o… Claro,claro, no.
Ese la gorra de la migración teamplía también la disposición,
¿no, a hacer cualquier tipo decosa.
Yo sí sentía que, del lado demi profesión, remontar el tema
de la formación era mucho,porque, al final, estudiar el
sistema político es estudiar aun país.
¿no, it was a lot, because, inthe end, studying the political
(10:07):
system is studying a country,right?
So being a political scientistis one of the professions
perhaps more geolocalized thanone can have, right?
Once you leave your country,your references change so much
that, well, it wasn't much of myinterest to go there.
So much so that, well, itwasn't much of my interest to go
(10:30):
out there.
But also, but also, that thedecision is also a fan, and
today I explain it.
I explain it like that it seemsdirect.
Right, it was one of so manythings that I had in mind.
I don't remember any other, butthat was one of the options and
that worked.
Well, I got there and I gotinto a cultural world that
interested me, that I liked,that received me with open arms,
(10:51):
that made me part of itimmediately.
So, well, the results were there.
But, yes, it was one of severaloptions, right, because well,
that's another one that I haverepeated on some occasions.
They tell you that you don'thave to make two rabbits at the
same time, because one burns.
En algunas ocasiones te dicenque no, hay que hacer dos
conejos a la vez porque se quemauno.
No, bueno, cuando migras, hayque hacerlo dos, hay que hacer
cuatro o cinco conejos a la vez,a ver cuál, cuál queda bien.
Daniela SM (11:15):
Sí, ya veo.
Bueno, hablemos de tus libros.
¿cuántos llevas ya?
Luis Alejandro Ordóñez (11:18):
El tema es difícil porque cuatro libros
míos y dos antologías quetambién considero mías.
Pero bueno, antologías siemprehay algo de título prestado, ¿no
?
Porque es el trabajo de otros.
Entonces, bueno, cuatro libros,uno de relatos y tres novelas,
y estas dos antologías, que sonde micro relatos ¿Cuál fue el
(11:39):
primero?
Daniela SM (11:40):
¿Cómo te sentiste cuando terminaste?
Luis Alejandro Ordóñez (11:58):
El primero se llama Play y es un
libro de and editor, who was thefirst person I approached at
that event after it ended, and Iapproached him.
That relationship still remains.
In fact, I have published fourbooks with him and that first
book is a book with moreVenezuelan stories than American
Because, except for the firststory, the others probably were
gestated in Venezuela.
(12:19):
But that's the first book Ipublished here.
Of stories I still come back toone or another way with tension
, and I have always been filledwith a lot of satisfaction those
stories that are also writtenwith an intention to see, in the
sense that I wanted my storiesto be like personal crises of
people who did not know what washappening around them or how to
(12:41):
react, and they wanted it to bewritten with that feeling.
Many times people tell me thatthey did not give me a breath.
Well, I wanted it to be writtenwith that feeling.
Many times people tell me uy,you didn't give me a breath.
Well, it's that I wanted thecharacter to not have a breath,
like who says, overpassed by thesituation.
Daniela SM (12:55):
Are your books translated into English as well,
or only in Spanish?
Luis Alejandro Ordóñez (12:58):
Only one is translated into English,
which is the last New York Times, which was translated as the
Last New York Times.
It was translated by José ÁngelNaveja, un editor
mexicano-estadounidense.
Que bueno, yo le mostré ellibro con la idea de si le
gustaría participar en elproyecto de traducirlo, y
realmente le gustó.
Y publicada en español y enediciones por dos editoriales
(13:21):
distintas.
Daniela SM (13:22):
Ok, entonces tenemos .
Luis Alejandro Ordóñez (13:23):
Play el último New York Times.
Si me muero, abre estosarchivos, que fue el que leíste
y el más reciente aquí.
Daniela SM (13:30):
No encontrarás a Weeping Sally ¿Cuál es tu rutina
de escritura?
Luis Alejandro Ordóñez (13:33):
Mi rutina de escritura es escribir
cuando se pueda, donde se pueda¿.
Así Como sea, sí, porque laverdad que, al final, todos
queremos ser Paul Auster, ¿noQue le preguntaban a Paul Auster
?
Right that they asked PaulAuster, what is your writing
routine?
Well, I went to the office andworked from 8 to 12,.
I went to lunch, I returned tothe office and worked from 2 to
(13:53):
6, and such.
Daniela SM (13:56):
And you say well, wow tremendous.
Luis Alejandro Ordóñez (13:58):
Thank you, most writers, fantastic.
Meanwhile you are stealing timefrom other things, so my
schedule changes so muchaccording to the work I have
that I cannot have a writingroutine, because the routine is
marked by things that I cannotvary.
I can vary the writing.
(14:19):
I can write at night, in themorning or at noon.
So when it is available, it isalso available to do things like
always having something at handthe notebook.
I prefer to have a notebook athand to be able to write.
Daniela SM (14:32):
For example, my husband wants to paint.
No, I'm not inspired, no, it'snot the time, no, no, I mean he
always has an excuse.
So I always say well, but ifone doesn't sit down and it's
kind of forced, then it nevercomes out.
Luis Alejandro Ordóñez (14:46):
If one waits for inspiration, that can
be eternal.
I don't know who said it thefirst time, but inspiration has
to grab you.
Working, I always separate twoprocesses the process of
generating ideas and the processof elaboration.
For me they are two differentthings.
But besides, the two things arecreative because when you are
sitting writing, things arisethat would not have arisen
(15:08):
except by writing.
The process of writing is initself.
Obviously, when one says it itseems obvious, but it is not.
It is creative too becausethere are things that arise in
writing that were not foreseen,or that you had not thought
about, or that you had notthought about it and you went
there.
That kind of thing happens, butthat's when you've already
(15:30):
generated the idea, when youalready have the project.
Sitting down to write without aproject, without an idea, has
never happened to me.
That is to face the blank page.
Well, the blank page is blankbecause you haven't started.
But when I sit down, I alreadyhave something I want to do.
Right, what I want to say?
What is an idea that I want toexplore?
(15:51):
Does it work or not?
That's another topic.
That's the process.
So the idea, the idea, has tobe attractive enough.
You have to like it so much, ithas to seem interesting enough
for you to go to sit down towrite it, and that's where I
think there shouldn't be anexcuse, right, tiene que parecer
lo suficientemente interesantecomo para que vayas a sentarte a
(16:12):
escribirla.
Y ahí es donde creo yo que nodebe haber la excusa, ¿no, Tu
idea tiene que ser tan atractivapara ti como para querer
hacerla.
Y si ya la quieres hacer, bueno, siéntate a hacerla, pues hazla
.
No funciona, o la cambiaste oyou abandoned it.
That's another thing.
But that the moment you have tobe producing ideas that provoke
(16:33):
you to carry it out, it's veryinteresting how you do it to get
your characters.
Well, yes, ideas arise in manyways.
The last New York Times camefrom reading the Year of the
Death of Ricardo Reis by JoséSaramago.
José Saramago tells an anecdotein his book.
(16:53):
José Saramago, the Portuguesewriter, writes the Year of the
Death of Ricardo Reis, a novel,and in that novel he tells the
anecdote of the New York Timesthat John D Rockefeller receives
.
I read this anecdote and I lookfor it.
I want to find that New YorkTimes, rockefeller, and that is
the germ of the last New YorkTimes, my novel.
(17:17):
So there is clear that theinspiration, so to speak, as
specific as that here you willnot find Whipping Sally.
(17:38):
The process is much moreintricate because it was born
from a project that a friend ofmine proposes to me.
Rafael Franco Crips to write astory for an anthology that he
was preparing for him.
The theme is the lost writersof Chicago.
That is such a specific topicthat, unless they propose it to
you, it is not that.
Ah, look, here I have threestories about lost writers of
Chicago.
Específico que a menos de quete lo propongan.
No es que a mira.
Aquí tengo tres cuentos sobreescritores perdido chicago.
Me interesa el tema, me encantay me senté a producir la idea.
No sabía cómo la iba a hacer,como venía y cosas que tenía en
la cabeza.
Bueno, chicago, para mí, haydos cosas de chicago que siempre
(18:01):
me han interesado, me hanfascinado.
Primero, el sí me votó.
El clima de la ciudad Es unclima muy traicionero, es un
clima que tú estás en el díabonito, y de pronto viene una
tormenta de la nada.
El lago se transforma de unamanera impresionante.
Hay veces que es un plato azul,cristalino, y otros días es un
(18:22):
lago tormentoso de unas olasterribles, de unas olas
grandísimas.
Eso siempre me ha gustado.
And other days it's a tormentedlake with terrible waves, with
very big waves.
I've always liked that.
Another thing that impressed me,perhaps because I'm Venezuelan,
because I'm from Caracas, whenI lived in Caracas it was the
most dangerous city in the world, so you didn't do many things
outside, you didn't take care ofbeing outside in Caracas.
(18:44):
You walked, looking back andforward and everywhere, and
preferably you didn't walk InChicago.
During the summers, which arevery short, there are many
photography sessions in thestreets, in the avenues, in the
squares, of wedding photographs.
The girlfriends with acourtesan, with the boyfriend or
(19:04):
alone, take photos of thewedding in the squares, and well
, and the summer lasts two weeks, so it's two weeks of photos of
photos, photos sessions,sessions.
You see girlfriends everywhere.
That caught my attention a lotand with both things I built
Weeping Sally, which is thewidow's girlfriend of Lake
(19:25):
Michigan.
The story of Weeping Sally iswhat the novel ends up being.
Here you will not find WeepingSally, lo que termina siendo la
novela.
Aquí no encontrarás a WhippingSally.
Juntar dos cosas de miexperiencia, pero es una
experiencia visual.
No, es algo que me sucedió.
Yo veía las bodas y, bueno, elclima me impresionaba, ¿no?
Y con eso construí estaWhipping Sally que, además, la
novela siempre es otra cosa,porque está el factor del
(19:48):
escritor perdido, que era laidea que tenía had to try to
carry out, because the proposalwas that so well, that was a
puzzle that I built.
That's how you build charactersand ideas, a process that is
not easy to predict by theresults, that the results are
(20:08):
very dissimilar.
What produces the spark of theidea?
You don't know when that sparkis going to come.
Why.
Qué va a venir?
Pero uno tiene que estar listo.
Daniela SM (20:17):
Me imagino que lees mucho, sí, sí.
Entonces, cuando lees, ¿soncosas que te inspiran?
Luis Alejandro Ordóñez (20:23):
Bueno, generalmente es más por esa vía
de último New York Times.
Esta anécdota una pequeña parte, una mínima parte de la novela,
a small part of the novel.
Wow, this interests me right,and I go there also with movies.
The movies usually interest mea lot.
I have several movie stories,for example Truman's show.
I liked it a lot.
I wrote the show of Hannah Hill, a story that is a kind of
(20:49):
sequel to Truman's show, aboutwhat happened to his wife after
the show in Truman's show.
Daniela SM (20:54):
Because he left and he set himself free and such but
the wife who did that insteadof wife.
Luis Alejandro Ordóñez (20:59):
Well, she ran out of paper and she ran
out of work and she ran out oflife also.
That was my reflection whensuch.
Then I wrote a story about that.
I also have a story called Backto the Past.
After watching the trilogy ofBack to the Future so many times
, I still had the idea that, hey, but Marty, marty has.
(21:21):
He was schizophrenic because heremembers something that didn't
really happen.
So well, back to the Past is astory of what happened to Marty
the day after everything wassupposedly solved.
That I never thought everythingwas solved there, but that's
something that always stays withme with movies about the trips
to the past.
(21:43):
The trips always generate me.
No, this was not solved, thisis not there.
And then that type of thing,yes, they inspire me because I'm
a little.
That kind of thing inspires mebecause I'm always active,
(22:05):
reading actively and looking forthings, looking for elements,
looking for ideas.
That's why I also like to seeart, because it's something that
puts me in another plane, inanother sensory plane.
My process of generating ideasis never very visual, although I
talk about cinema ideas.
But it's the story, it's notthe image, that is generating
the ideas.
But then that's why I likestreet art a lot graffiti, dista
(22:30):
Bills, which makes murals,breaking the walls, which seems
to me just thinking about that.
Breaking the walls is likemaking the mural, it seems
fantastic.
So I'm always very aware ofthose things.
Miami had a very interestingthing that I think has lost a
(22:51):
bit, which was street art.
There was a lot of street artin Wynwood, which today is well
as always.
Behind the hippies always comethe yuppies and that's a
terrible reality of life, ofsociety.
So well, that very artistic,very graffiti area would become
a commercial corporate area thathas some graffiti.
(23:12):
It's not the same anymore, butI could see some of that when I
moved.
Graphic novels also generallytell me wow, why that?
Because it's history with animage in a way that I don't
usually recreate it.
I'm looking for things too.
Daniela SM (23:27):
If we go to your childhood, you were very
interested in reading.
How did you get into?
Luis Alejandro Ordóñe (23:34):
political science.
Political science, like somedeviations, the constant has
always been narrating, tellingstories on paper, because I'm
not a speaker, although.
I have 40 minutes talking andsaying that you are not a
speaker is like weird.
But I am not a talker.
I am the quiet type, tellingstories always on paper.
I liked it since I was little.
(23:55):
There must still be some thingswritten there since I was
little and always reading,although they have always told
me that I am very intelligentbut very lazy studying.
So I was never a reallyoutstanding student unless I
solved it.
But never dedicated, never tostudy.
I never dedicated myself exceptwhat interested me.
I am always interested indeviations because I think that
(24:19):
is where he finds things.
For example, I had a knowledgeof a very large geography that
was due to football, to clubfootball.
I was very aware of's football,so I wanted to know the 1FC con
, the Colonia, the club'sfootball, where it was, where it
was, the such and such BocaJuniors, why Boca Juniors?
Where it is such and such kindof things.
(24:40):
So that there was always like afeeling, a search, interest.
Daniela SM (24:47):
And you also collected baseball cards.
Luis Alejandro Ordóñez (24:49):
I still have them there.
I don't buy many nuevas, perotodavía están ahí en la casa.
Sí, las barajitas de béisbol.
Daniela SM (24:58):
Otra historia que me dijo Carlos era que hicieron un
proyecto para ciencias con unasbacterias que tenían que poner
en un sitio.
Luis Alejandro Ordóñez (25:07):
Bueno, sí, porque no era, como te digo,
nunca muy visual, nunca en casa.
Pero hicimos la visual.
But we made the bacteriathree-dimensional.
We made a three-dimensionalmodel.
That evidently didn't look verynice, but making it
two-dimensional making a drawingor plasticine crushed was very
simple too.
We were inept but ambitious,and that combination is always
(25:29):
good.
But it also breaks the heart alot.
The results don't go withambition, they go with
ineptitude.
It was very frustrating becausethe only three-dimensional
model of the salon was ours.
It was the one that got theleast marks.
Daniela SM (25:48):
How comical.
I think I'm going to try to usethat Inept but ambitious.
Luis Alejandro Ordóñez (25:58):
That's a good insult, really.
But it's also one thing that,well, we're going forward.
We don't know, but we're goingto know it in the process.
Let's see if we know it.
That's a lot of what has alwaysguided me.
Well, let's discover it.
That's important.
In creative work Test, you haveto force the limits, the
personal limits and the limitsof things, of ideas.
Sometimes it doesn't work.
Well, let's go for another oneNext time it does work.
(26:20):
If you met Luis Alejandro,younger than now, would you say?
something different now thatyou're a are.
Yes, I don't think that waymuch, because, in the end, those
winds are these storms.
But perhaps I would have triedto tell him well, make the most
(26:42):
concrete decisions, but thefeeling that I was reaching the
same point along a much longerpath.
How it would have been shorter.
Maybe, when it comes to makingcertain decisions, logic asked
me for one thing and the resultwas the other to be more
intuitive, less logical.
Daniela SM (27:05):
That is very interesting More intuitive, less
logical, and do you thinkyou've reached that level?
Luis Alejandro Ordóñez (27:11):
I don't think so.
The issue of rational decisionis always imposed Sometimes.
I think it's still a piece ofadvice that I could give myself
today.
Daniela SM (27:23):
I'm more intuitive and more emotional.
I've always criticized being soemotional, but in the end I'm
learning that it's not badeither.
No, no, of course, sometimesbeing very logical, like
avoiding a little more, havinghaving more satisfaction with
life, or what do you think?
Luis Alejandro Ordóñez (27:40):
The matter of being very rational
can mean leaving aside thingsthat were important, because
rationalization always goes forthe matter of resource
optimization, for the fastestway it is not necessarily the
only way to achieve things thatover-rationalize cost-benefit
analysis, all that kind of thingat some point given to me, it
(28:04):
did not work for me.
More intuition, perhaps itwould have been better at some
point.
Perhaps it is better now Okvery good.
Daniela SM (28:12):
What's new?
What is the future now for you?
What?
Luis Alejandro Ordóñez (28:15):
else.
At the moment, there is alwaysa new story, a new project that
one does not know if it is goingto come to an end, because that
when you raise the ideas first,you do not know if you are
going to be interested enough tocarry them out.
But you have to develop themand take them into account.
Right now I have two bigprojects, perhaps a third, that
are ambitious, complex, workingon research, reading, also
(28:40):
introspective research.
Right, how do I feel in thistype of situation, this story
that I am considering as areaction?
I probably have a book ofstories ready, but I don't have
any publication project yetdefined with it.
One is always like taking onemore step, taking one more step,
taking one more step, unproyecto de publicación todavía
definido con él.
Uno siempre está como dando unpaso más, dando un paso más,
dando un paso más.
(29:01):
Entonces tengo estos dosproyectos porque uno va por un
personaje actual de laactualidad, una idea relativa a
los memes, y el otro es unpersonaje bibliográfico.
Daniela SM (29:12):
Tienes muy buenas fotos en la internet que he
visto, y también tiene unapágina web¿.
Cuál es la página web?
Luis Alej (29:19):
wwwlaoficinadeluiscom .
Ahí puedes encontrar libros,los trabajos, ahí, bueno, tengo
un boletín de noticias donde temantengo más o menos al tanto de
lo que estoy haciendo.
Hago reseñas de libros, hagoescritos sobre alguna cosa que
encuentre interesante, a vecesabout something that you find
interesting.
Sometimes I put short stories,also videos reviews, and that if
(29:39):
I make a video, thisconversation will be with your
link there too, okay, Is thereanything else we haven't talked
about?
I think.
Well, the truth is that Imanaged to talk about a lot of
things just that.
Well, I hope it'sindainvitación para leer, para que
nos leamos y para que sigamosconversando.
Daniela SM (30:01):
Sí, es verdad.
Muchísimas gracias, luisAlejandro, por estar aquí
conmigo y contarme tu historia.
Luis Alejandro Ordóñez (30:07):
Gracias a ti, daniela, y gracias gracias
a ti por la oportunidad,gracias a tus oyentes.
La verdad es realmente unplacer.
Espero que hayan disfrutado deeste episodio y los demás que
comparto en este espacio.
Daniela SM (30:14):
Si fue así, los invito a tomarse.
It was a pleasure.
I hope you enjoyed this episodeand the others that share this
space.
If so, I invite you to take amoment to think of someone who
could enjoy what you just heard,or maybe someone who has a
valuable, very interesting storyto share.
When that person comes to mind,send this podcast, persona
(30:38):
venga en su mente.
Envíen este podcast.
Con ese simple gesto, ayudan aseguir compartiendo historias,
creando magia, y que estosmensajes sigan llegando cada vez
más lejos.
Gracias de verdad por escuchar.
Hasta pronto.
Hola, soy Daniela.
Bienvenidos a mi podcast.
Porque todos tenemos unahistoria que contar.
Este es el espacio donde lashistorias de las personas
encuentran un lugar para serconectadas, compartidas y
recordadas, porque nuestrashistorias son el lenguaje que
nos conecta, así que comparte,conecta y disfruta.
(00:22):
Porque sí, todos tenemos unahistoria que contar.
Hoy tengo el gusto de conversarcon Luis Alejandro Ordóñez, un
escritor y politólogo venezolanocon una historia fascinante de
migración, identidad ycreatividad.
Lo más bonito de este encuentroes que Luis Alejandro fue mi
(00:42):
vecino en Caracas, el cafetal enVenezuela, y, después de 34
años de haber dejado Venezuela,me encontré con un libro de él.
Su estilo de escritura mefascinó.
No podía dejar el libro Y poreso quería que estuviera en el
podcast para que nos contara suhistoria, compartir nuestras
vivencias y descubrir cómo suvoz y su inspiración han
(01:07):
evolucionado en tierrasextranjeras.
Vamos a disfrutar su historia.
Bienvenido, luis AlejandroOrdóñez, al show de Porque Todos
Tenemos Una Historia Que Contar.
Luis Alejandro Ordóñez (01:17):
Gracias, gracias por la oportunidad,
gracias por dejarme participar,un placer realmente.
Daniela SM (01:21):
Sí, estoy muy contenta de que estés aquí.
Of course, how do we know eachother?
We were neighbors, but you'remuch younger than me so you
didn't pay much attention to us.
But you're a friend of my bestfriend, Carlos Alfredo Guzmán.
I saw him a few months ago andhe showed me a book that is
written by you, so I took it off, I've been reading it and, well
(01:42):
, I decided that it would begreat por ti se lo quité.
Lo he estado leyendo y, bueno,decidí que sería buenísimo que
estuvieras aquí con nosotrospara que nos contaras tu
historia y cómo llegaste a serel escritor que eres ahora.
Luis Alejandro Ordóñez (01:51):
Gracias, gracias, sí, excelente, Me
encanta la oportunidad.
Y qué bueno que primero quehayas hecho de nuevo contacto,
porque había sido muchos años,sí, sin saber nada uno del otro.
Y Carlos siempre es bueno, éles el amigo de todos, ¿no?
Entonces él mantiene a todo elmundo en contacto de alguna u
otra manera.
Entonces, bueno, es un lujocontar con él porque, de verdad,
(02:12):
gracias a él, el libro está enAlemania, Gracias a él este
contacto siempre es como un lujotenerlo de tu lado.
Daniela SM (02:21):
Sí, buenísimo de que seas el escritor que eres ahora
.
Quiero que cuentes cómo empiezatu historia.
Yes, great that you are thewriter you are now.
I want you to tell us how yourstory begins.
Luis Alejandro Ordóñez (02:27):
I thought a lot about that
question, because from where toreally start?
And I think that I like to saythat the writer I am now begins
with my move to the UnitedStates, precisely because, at
the time I moved to the UnitedStates, I had to make decisions.
And one Precisamente porque enel momento en que me mudó a
Estados Unidos, tengo que tomardecisiones, y una de las
decisiones fue hacer contactocon la comunidad literaria en
(02:49):
español de Chicago.
Eso fue lo que reseteó elcamino hasta hoy.
Cuando yo llegué a Chicago,agosto 2008,.
En septiembre 2008, estabanentregando un premio literario
de una revista, la revistaContratiempo premios for a story
, a story written in Spanish.
Well, I went to the awardceremony.
Luckily, they had a whole awardceremony event.
(03:10):
There are other awards that aresimply administrative right.
You find out by email that youwon or that you lost it, and
there is nothing else.
This had an award ceremony, soI could attend, and there I met
a number of people who are stillpart of my network of friends
in the United States, and therebegan a path of reinvention, yes
(03:32):
, of reinterpretation of what Iwas doing, but also a new path,
because being a writer or beingin the cultural community, in
Spain, in the United States.
That puts you in contact with aseries of issues, problems,
claims that were not presentwhen one was in Venezuela.
And I also like to mark thatpath because, although I have
(03:55):
written all my life, all my lifeI have worked in my writing.
It was always like an activity,like who says annex, it was
other thing that I did was here,where that became the main
thing tell me, because I chosechicago chicago.
well, it was a mutual decisionwith my wife, because my sister
(04:18):
lives in chicago, in theoutskirts of chicago, in
naperville, then I knew the city.
When you have a opportunity todo a postgraduate degree, it has
three positive answers and theywere precisely San Francisco,
new York and Chicago.
It was an important decision tochoose because there were three
extremes, to say it like thatno coast to the west, coast to
the east, midwest and in reality, there was no way to decide
(04:41):
between the programs asinteresting as the Chicago one.
To be able to make the decision,we resorted to the personal.
No había forma de decidir entrelos programas tan interesantes
como el de Chicago.
Para poder tomar la decisiónRecurrimos a lo personal, la
presencia de familia cercana enuna ciudad que yo, en mi caso,
conocía más que cualquiera delas otras dos.
De hecho, en Nueva York, solovacaciones.
San Francisco no la conozco, Yesa decisión fue lo que me
permitió también hacer unainvestigación de qué iba a hacer
(05:02):
yo, me iba a ensartar yo en esadecisión que me permitió, which
also allowed me to do aninvestigation of what I was
going to do.
I was going to get stuck inthat decision that allowed me to
quickly and I knew more thanother cities to get to the
centers that interested me.
Daniela SM (05:14):
And what did you do before leaving?
What is the story, a little bit, of when you were living in
Venezuela?
Luis Alejandro Ordóñez (05:18):
I am a political scientist.
I graduated in politicalstudies from the Central
University of Venezuela and atthat time I worked in political
studies from the CentralUniversity of Venezuela and at
that time I worked in politicalcommunication.
I worked in the mayor's officein a department called Strategic
Analysis.
It was a department of advisoryon issues of opinion, of public
opinion, at the office of themayor and I also taught classes
(05:40):
at the Catholic UniversityAndrés Bello in political
communication, at the School ofSocial Communication.
I taught politicalcommunication Very good en la
Universidad Católica AndrésBello de Comunicación Política,
en la Escuela de ComunicaciónSocial de Aba Comunicación
Política Muy bien.
Daniela SM (05:48):
La otra cosa que también he escuchado, bueno,
carlos, dice que tú eres unhombre sumamente inteligente ¡Ah
, caramba, gracias, gracias,gracias.
No bueno Sí eso no es fácil.
No es fácil que uno tiene, quesabes, una responsabilidad muy
grande.
Luis Alejandro Ordóñez (06:06):
Sí, sí, sí, Bueno, pero la inteligencia
no es muy práctica.
La verdad que no soy un tipoasí muy práctico.
Entonces, ¿cómo es eso?
Los problemas de la vidacotidiana, suelo no resolverlos
demasiado bien, sino más bienproblematizarlos muy bien, no
resolverlos.
La inteligencia a veces tienesus contrapartes, el lado
filosófico, a Exactly the sideof the project of well, if it
(06:45):
works, we continue.
Venezuela was already offeringfew opportunities for growth and
, yes, it worked.
Here we continue.
Daniela SM (06:53):
Yes, so they decided to stay.
They stayed in Chicago or theymoved to another place.
Luis Alejandro Ordóñez (06:57):
At the age of 8 or 9 years of living in
Chicago, we moved to Miami, andI continue here.
Daniela SM (07:02):
Is this because of the climate, or what?
Luis Alejandro Ordóñez (07:05):
Well, yes, because of the climate.
The truth is that Chicago is avery beautiful city with many
things, but it's a city of fouror six months.
The other months of cold aredifficult to manage.
Miami also offers moreopportunities for professional
growth.
In literary terms.
Miami in Spanish is also veryactive, very attractive.
Miami in Spanish is also veryactive, very attractive, and an
(07:28):
element that it does not haveperhaps in Chicago is that it is
much more connected with therest of Latin America.
In Chicago, the city itself is acity that presumes a lot of
being self-sufficient.
Chicago is Chicago and thatpermeates into all the things in
the city, including thecultural movement in Spanish.
We triumphed in Chicago andthen, well, the world knows us
(07:53):
and that's very interesting,that's very important.
That gives a vitality to thatmovement that is difficult to
find and a singularity too.
But in Miami, miami is veryclose to Latin America.
So there are many peoplethinking about what happens in
the rest of Latin America, whathappens in Spain, much more than
what is thought in Chicago.
So in that sense it is anothervery important, very interesting
(08:18):
, but completely new, differentfor one two different movements,
(08:40):
two different postures due tothe shape of the city and the
way the city is conceived, Ithink, very interesting.
Thank you for and in fact, I hadsemi-published because I worked
for magazines or did somethings, participated in some
events.
I published a novel on my own,but it was always like an
additional adventure.
Yes, I always wrote, I alwaysparticipated in workshops.
(09:02):
In fact, all my training as awriter is in Venezuela.
But here, as I say, myperspective changed a bit too.
Here I write and do otherthings, which is also, again, a
change of perspective.
Everything perspectives areimportant it changes the point
(09:24):
of view.
Yes, you have to change thepoints of view because things
change.
Daniela SM (09:29):
I think I understood that you decided that you were
going to be a writer anddedicate yourself more to that.
How did you feel?
Because, of course, being awriter is not the same as having
a job that you know from 9 to 5, that they give you a salary.
So what are you know?
Do you have fears?
Luis Alejandro Ordóñez (09:45):
¿Cuáles son sabes?
Tienes los miedos o… Claro,claro, no.
Ese la gorra de la migración teamplía también la disposición,
¿no, a hacer cualquier tipo decosa.
Yo sí sentía que, del lado demi profesión, remontar el tema
de la formación era mucho,porque, al final, estudiar el
sistema político es estudiar aun país.
¿no, it was a lot, because, inthe end, studying the political
(10:07):
system is studying a country,right?
So being a political scientistis one of the professions
perhaps more geolocalized thanone can have, right?
Once you leave your country,your references change so much
that, well, it wasn't much of myinterest to go there.
So much so that, well, itwasn't much of my interest to go
(10:30):
out there.
But also, but also, that thedecision is also a fan, and
today I explain it.
I explain it like that it seemsdirect.
Right, it was one of so manythings that I had in mind.
I don't remember any other, butthat was one of the options and
that worked.
Well, I got there and I gotinto a cultural world that
interested me, that I liked,that received me with open arms,
(10:51):
that made me part of itimmediately.
So, well, the results were there.
But, yes, it was one of severaloptions, right, because well,
that's another one that I haverepeated on some occasions.
They tell you that you don'thave to make two rabbits at the
same time, because one burns.
En algunas ocasiones te dicenque no, hay que hacer dos
conejos a la vez porque se quemauno.
No, bueno, cuando migras, hayque hacerlo dos, hay que hacer
cuatro o cinco conejos a la vez,a ver cuál, cuál queda bien.
Daniela SM (11:15):
Sí, ya veo.
Bueno, hablemos de tus libros.
¿cuántos llevas ya?
Luis Alejandro Ordóñez (11:18):
El tema es difícil porque cuatro libros
míos y dos antologías quetambién considero mías.
Pero bueno, antologías siemprehay algo de título prestado, ¿no
?
Porque es el trabajo de otros.
Entonces, bueno, cuatro libros,uno de relatos y tres novelas,
y estas dos antologías, que sonde micro relatos ¿Cuál fue el
(11:39):
primero?
Daniela SM (11:40):
¿Cómo te sentiste cuando terminaste?
Luis Alejandro Ordóñez (11:58):
El primero se llama Play y es un
libro de and editor, who was thefirst person I approached at
that event after it ended, and Iapproached him.
That relationship still remains.
In fact, I have published fourbooks with him and that first
book is a book with moreVenezuelan stories than American
Because, except for the firststory, the others probably were
gestated in Venezuela.
(12:19):
But that's the first book Ipublished here.
Of stories I still come back toone or another way with tension
, and I have always been filledwith a lot of satisfaction those
stories that are also writtenwith an intention to see, in the
sense that I wanted my storiesto be like personal crises of
people who did not know what washappening around them or how to
(12:41):
react, and they wanted it to bewritten with that feeling.
Many times people tell me thatthey did not give me a breath.
Well, I wanted it to be writtenwith that feeling.
Many times people tell me uy,you didn't give me a breath.
Well, it's that I wanted thecharacter to not have a breath,
like who says, overpassed by thesituation.
Daniela SM (12:55):
Are your books translated into English as well,
or only in Spanish?
Luis Alejandro Ordóñez (12:58):
Only one is translated into English,
which is the last New York Times, which was translated as the
Last New York Times.
It was translated by José ÁngelNaveja, un editor
mexicano-estadounidense.
Que bueno, yo le mostré ellibro con la idea de si le
gustaría participar en elproyecto de traducirlo, y
realmente le gustó.
Y publicada en español y enediciones por dos editoriales
(13:21):
distintas.
Daniela SM (13:22):
Ok, entonces tenemos .
Luis Alejandro Ordóñez (13:23):
Play el último New York Times.
Si me muero, abre estosarchivos, que fue el que leíste
y el más reciente aquí.
Daniela SM (13:30):
No encontrarás a Weeping Sally ¿Cuál es tu rutina
de escritura?
Luis Alejandro Ordóñez (13:33):
Mi rutina de escritura es escribir
cuando se pueda, donde se pueda¿.
Así Como sea, sí, porque laverdad que, al final, todos
queremos ser Paul Auster, ¿noQue le preguntaban a Paul Auster
?
Right that they asked PaulAuster, what is your writing
routine?
Well, I went to the office andworked from 8 to 12,.
I went to lunch, I returned tothe office and worked from 2 to
(13:53):
6, and such.
Daniela SM (13:56):
And you say well, wow tremendous.
Luis Alejandro Ordóñez (13:58):
Thank you, most writers, fantastic.
Meanwhile you are stealing timefrom other things, so my
schedule changes so muchaccording to the work I have
that I cannot have a writingroutine, because the routine is
marked by things that I cannotvary.
I can vary the writing.
(14:19):
I can write at night, in themorning or at noon.
So when it is available, it isalso available to do things like
always having something at handthe notebook.
I prefer to have a notebook athand to be able to write.
Daniela SM (14:32):
For example, my husband wants to paint.
No, I'm not inspired, no, it'snot the time, no, no, I mean he
always has an excuse.
So I always say well, but ifone doesn't sit down and it's
kind of forced, then it nevercomes out.
Luis Alejandro Ordóñez (14:46):
If one waits for inspiration, that can
be eternal.
I don't know who said it thefirst time, but inspiration has
to grab you.
Working, I always separate twoprocesses the process of
generating ideas and the processof elaboration.
For me they are two differentthings.
But besides, the two things arecreative because when you are
sitting writing, things arisethat would not have arisen
(15:08):
except by writing.
The process of writing is initself.
Obviously, when one says it itseems obvious, but it is not.
It is creative too becausethere are things that arise in
writing that were not foreseen,or that you had not thought
about, or that you had notthought about it and you went
there.
That kind of thing happens, butthat's when you've already
(15:30):
generated the idea, when youalready have the project.
Sitting down to write without aproject, without an idea, has
never happened to me.
That is to face the blank page.
Well, the blank page is blankbecause you haven't started.
But when I sit down, I alreadyhave something I want to do.
Right, what I want to say?
What is an idea that I want toexplore?
(15:51):
Does it work or not?
That's another topic.
That's the process.
So the idea, the idea, has tobe attractive enough.
You have to like it so much, ithas to seem interesting enough
for you to go to sit down towrite it, and that's where I
think there shouldn't be anexcuse, right, tiene que parecer
lo suficientemente interesantecomo para que vayas a sentarte a
(16:12):
escribirla.
Y ahí es donde creo yo que nodebe haber la excusa, ¿no, Tu
idea tiene que ser tan atractivapara ti como para querer
hacerla.
Y si ya la quieres hacer, bueno, siéntate a hacerla, pues hazla
.
No funciona, o la cambiaste oyou abandoned it.
That's another thing.
But that the moment you have tobe producing ideas that provoke
(16:33):
you to carry it out, it's veryinteresting how you do it to get
your characters.
Well, yes, ideas arise in manyways.
The last New York Times camefrom reading the Year of the
Death of Ricardo Reis by JoséSaramago.
José Saramago tells an anecdotein his book.
(16:53):
José Saramago, the Portuguesewriter, writes the Year of the
Death of Ricardo Reis, a novel,and in that novel he tells the
anecdote of the New York Timesthat John D Rockefeller receives
.
I read this anecdote and I lookfor it.
I want to find that New YorkTimes, rockefeller, and that is
the germ of the last New YorkTimes, my novel.
(17:17):
So there is clear that theinspiration, so to speak, as
specific as that here you willnot find Whipping Sally.
(17:38):
The process is much moreintricate because it was born
from a project that a friend ofmine proposes to me.
Rafael Franco Crips to write astory for an anthology that he
was preparing for him.
The theme is the lost writersof Chicago.
That is such a specific topicthat, unless they propose it to
you, it is not that.
Ah, look, here I have threestories about lost writers of
Chicago.
Específico que a menos de quete lo propongan.
No es que a mira.
Aquí tengo tres cuentos sobreescritores perdido chicago.
Me interesa el tema, me encantay me senté a producir la idea.
No sabía cómo la iba a hacer,como venía y cosas que tenía en
la cabeza.
Bueno, chicago, para mí, haydos cosas de chicago que siempre
(18:01):
me han interesado, me hanfascinado.
Primero, el sí me votó.
El clima de la ciudad Es unclima muy traicionero, es un
clima que tú estás en el díabonito, y de pronto viene una
tormenta de la nada.
El lago se transforma de unamanera impresionante.
Hay veces que es un plato azul,cristalino, y otros días es un
(18:22):
lago tormentoso de unas olasterribles, de unas olas
grandísimas.
Eso siempre me ha gustado.
And other days it's a tormentedlake with terrible waves, with
very big waves.
I've always liked that.
Another thing that impressed me,perhaps because I'm Venezuelan,
because I'm from Caracas, whenI lived in Caracas it was the
most dangerous city in the world, so you didn't do many things
outside, you didn't take care ofbeing outside in Caracas.
(18:44):
You walked, looking back andforward and everywhere, and
preferably you didn't walk InChicago.
During the summers, which arevery short, there are many
photography sessions in thestreets, in the avenues, in the
squares, of wedding photographs.
The girlfriends with acourtesan, with the boyfriend or
(19:04):
alone, take photos of thewedding in the squares, and well
, and the summer lasts two weeks, so it's two weeks of photos of
photos, photos sessions,sessions.
You see girlfriends everywhere.
That caught my attention a lotand with both things I built
Weeping Sally, which is thewidow's girlfriend of Lake
(19:25):
Michigan.
The story of Weeping Sally iswhat the novel ends up being.
Here you will not find WeepingSally, lo que termina siendo la
novela.
Aquí no encontrarás a WhippingSally.
Juntar dos cosas de miexperiencia, pero es una
experiencia visual.
No, es algo que me sucedió.
Yo veía las bodas y, bueno, elclima me impresionaba, ¿no?
Y con eso construí estaWhipping Sally que, además, la
novela siempre es otra cosa,porque está el factor del
(19:48):
escritor perdido, que era laidea que tenía had to try to
carry out, because the proposalwas that so well, that was a
puzzle that I built.
That's how you build charactersand ideas, a process that is
not easy to predict by theresults, that the results are
(20:08):
very dissimilar.
What produces the spark of theidea?
You don't know when that sparkis going to come.
Why.
Qué va a venir?
Pero uno tiene que estar listo.
Daniela SM (20:17):
Me imagino que lees mucho, sí, sí.
Entonces, cuando lees, ¿soncosas que te inspiran?
Luis Alejandro Ordóñez (20:23):
Bueno, generalmente es más por esa vía
de último New York Times.
Esta anécdota una pequeña parte, una mínima parte de la novela,
a small part of the novel.
Wow, this interests me right,and I go there also with movies.
The movies usually interest mea lot.
I have several movie stories,for example Truman's show.
I liked it a lot.
I wrote the show of Hannah Hill, a story that is a kind of
(20:49):
sequel to Truman's show, aboutwhat happened to his wife after
the show in Truman's show.
Daniela SM (20:54):
Because he left and he set himself free and such but
the wife who did that insteadof wife.
Luis Alejandro Ordóñez (20:59):
Well, she ran out of paper and she ran
out of work and she ran out oflife also.
That was my reflection whensuch.
Then I wrote a story about that.
I also have a story called Backto the Past.
After watching the trilogy ofBack to the Future so many times
, I still had the idea that, hey, but Marty, marty has.
(21:21):
He was schizophrenic because heremembers something that didn't
really happen.
So well, back to the Past is astory of what happened to Marty
the day after everything wassupposedly solved.
That I never thought everythingwas solved there, but that's
something that always stays withme with movies about the trips
to the past.
(21:43):
The trips always generate me.
No, this was not solved, thisis not there.
And then that type of thing,yes, they inspire me because I'm
a little.
That kind of thing inspires mebecause I'm always active,
(22:05):
reading actively and looking forthings, looking for elements,
looking for ideas.
That's why I also like to seeart, because it's something that
puts me in another plane, inanother sensory plane.
My process of generating ideasis never very visual, although I
talk about cinema ideas.
But it's the story, it's notthe image, that is generating
the ideas.
But then that's why I likestreet art a lot graffiti, dista
(22:30):
Bills, which makes murals,breaking the walls, which seems
to me just thinking about that.
Breaking the walls is likemaking the mural, it seems
fantastic.
So I'm always very aware ofthose things.
Miami had a very interestingthing that I think has lost a
(22:51):
bit, which was street art.
There was a lot of street artin Wynwood, which today is well
as always.
Behind the hippies always comethe yuppies and that's a
terrible reality of life, ofsociety.
So well, that very artistic,very graffiti area would become
a commercial corporate area thathas some graffiti.
(23:12):
It's not the same anymore, butI could see some of that when I
moved.
Graphic novels also generallytell me wow, why that?
Because it's history with animage in a way that I don't
usually recreate it.
I'm looking for things too.
Daniela SM (23:27):
If we go to your childhood, you were very
interested in reading.
How did you get into?
Luis Alejandro Ordóñe (23:34):
political science.
Political science, like somedeviations, the constant has
always been narrating, tellingstories on paper, because I'm
not a speaker, although.
I have 40 minutes talking andsaying that you are not a
speaker is like weird.
But I am not a talker.
I am the quiet type, tellingstories always on paper.
I liked it since I was little.
(23:55):
There must still be some thingswritten there since I was
little and always reading,although they have always told
me that I am very intelligentbut very lazy studying.
So I was never a reallyoutstanding student unless I
solved it.
But never dedicated, never tostudy.
I never dedicated myself exceptwhat interested me.
I am always interested indeviations because I think that
(24:19):
is where he finds things.
For example, I had a knowledgeof a very large geography that
was due to football, to clubfootball.
I was very aware of's football,so I wanted to know the 1FC con
, the Colonia, the club'sfootball, where it was, where it
was, the such and such BocaJuniors, why Boca Juniors?
Where it is such and such kindof things.
(24:40):
So that there was always like afeeling, a search, interest.
Daniela SM (24:47):
And you also collected baseball cards.
Luis Alejandro Ordóñez (24:49):
I still have them there.
I don't buy many nuevas, perotodavía están ahí en la casa.
Sí, las barajitas de béisbol.
Daniela SM (24:58):
Otra historia que me dijo Carlos era que hicieron un
proyecto para ciencias con unasbacterias que tenían que poner
en un sitio.
Luis Alejandro Ordóñez (25:07):
Bueno, sí, porque no era, como te digo,
nunca muy visual, nunca en casa.
Pero hicimos la visual.
But we made the bacteriathree-dimensional.
We made a three-dimensionalmodel.
That evidently didn't look verynice, but making it
two-dimensional making a drawingor plasticine crushed was very
simple too.
We were inept but ambitious,and that combination is always
(25:29):
good.
But it also breaks the heart alot.
The results don't go withambition, they go with
ineptitude.
It was very frustrating becausethe only three-dimensional
model of the salon was ours.
It was the one that got theleast marks.
Daniela SM (25:48):
How comical.
I think I'm going to try to usethat Inept but ambitious.
Luis Alejandro Ordóñez (25:58):
That's a good insult, really.
But it's also one thing that,well, we're going forward.
We don't know, but we're goingto know it in the process.
Let's see if we know it.
That's a lot of what has alwaysguided me.
Well, let's discover it.
That's important.
In creative work Test, you haveto force the limits, the
personal limits and the limitsof things, of ideas.
Sometimes it doesn't work.
Well, let's go for another oneNext time it does work.
(26:20):
If you met Luis Alejandro,younger than now, would you say?
something different now thatyou're a are.
Yes, I don't think that waymuch, because, in the end, those
winds are these storms.
But perhaps I would have triedto tell him well, make the most
(26:42):
concrete decisions, but thefeeling that I was reaching the
same point along a much longerpath.
How it would have been shorter.
Maybe, when it comes to makingcertain decisions, logic asked
me for one thing and the resultwas the other to be more
intuitive, less logical.
Daniela SM (27:05):
That is very interesting More intuitive, less
logical, and do you thinkyou've reached that level?
Luis Alejandro Ordóñez (27:11):
I don't think so.
The issue of rational decisionis always imposed Sometimes.
I think it's still a piece ofadvice that I could give myself
today.
Daniela SM (27:23):
I'm more intuitive and more emotional.
I've always criticized being soemotional, but in the end I'm
learning that it's not badeither.
No, no, of course, sometimesbeing very logical, like
avoiding a little more, havinghaving more satisfaction with
life, or what do you think?
Luis Alejandro Ordóñez (27:40):
The matter of being very rational
can mean leaving aside thingsthat were important, because
rationalization always goes forthe matter of resource
optimization, for the fastestway it is not necessarily the
only way to achieve things thatover-rationalize cost-benefit
analysis, all that kind of thingat some point given to me, it
(28:04):
did not work for me.
More intuition, perhaps itwould have been better at some
point.
Perhaps it is better now Okvery good.
Daniela SM (28:12):
What's new?
What is the future now for you?
What?
Luis Alejandro Ordóñez (28:15):
else.
At the moment, there is alwaysa new story, a new project that
one does not know if it is goingto come to an end, because that
when you raise the ideas first,you do not know if you are
going to be interested enough tocarry them out.
But you have to develop themand take them into account.
Right now I have two bigprojects, perhaps a third, that
are ambitious, complex, workingon research, reading, also
(28:40):
introspective research.
Right, how do I feel in thistype of situation, this story
that I am considering as areaction?
I probably have a book ofstories ready, but I don't have
any publication project yetdefined with it.
One is always like taking onemore step, taking one more step,
taking one more step, unproyecto de publicación todavía
definido con él.
Uno siempre está como dando unpaso más, dando un paso más,
dando un paso más.
(29:01):
Entonces tengo estos dosproyectos porque uno va por un
personaje actual de laactualidad, una idea relativa a
los memes, y el otro es unpersonaje bibliográfico.
Daniela SM (29:12):
Tienes muy buenas fotos en la internet que he
visto, y también tiene unapágina web¿.
Cuál es la página web?
Luis Alej (29:19):
wwwlaoficinadeluiscom .
Ahí puedes encontrar libros,los trabajos, ahí, bueno, tengo
un boletín de noticias donde temantengo más o menos al tanto de
lo que estoy haciendo.
Hago reseñas de libros, hagoescritos sobre alguna cosa que
encuentre interesante, a vecesabout something that you find
interesting.
Sometimes I put short stories,also videos reviews, and that if
(29:39):
I make a video, thisconversation will be with your
link there too, okay, Is thereanything else we haven't talked
about?
I think.
Well, the truth is that Imanaged to talk about a lot of
things just that.
Well, I hope it'sindainvitación para leer, para que
nos leamos y para que sigamosconversando.
Daniela SM (30:01):
Sí, es verdad.
Muchísimas gracias, luisAlejandro, por estar aquí
conmigo y contarme tu historia.
Luis Alejandro Ordóñez (30:07):
Gracias a ti, daniela, y gracias gracias
a ti por la oportunidad,gracias a tus oyentes.
La verdad es realmente unplacer.
Espero que hayan disfrutado deeste episodio y los demás que
comparto en este espacio.
Daniela SM (30:14):
Si fue así, los invito a tomarse.
It was a pleasure.
I hope you enjoyed this episodeand the others that share this
space.
If so, I invite you to take amoment to think of someone who
could enjoy what you just heard,or maybe someone who has a
valuable, very interesting storyto share.
When that person comes to mind,send this podcast, persona
(30:38):
venga en su mente.
Envíen este podcast.
Con ese simple gesto, ayudan aseguir compartiendo historias,
creando magia, y que estosmensajes sigan llegando cada vez
más lejos.
Gracias de verdad por escuchar.
Hasta pronto.
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