January 27, 2025 • 25 mins
Ryan's powerful story of addiction and recovery showcases the complex interplay between mental health and substance abuse. Through his journey, he sheds light on the importance of hitting rock bottom as a catalyst for change and the critical role of family support in the path to healing.
Ryan Gray graduated from the University of North Carolina Asheville (UNCA) in 2016 with a degree in literature. He is now a peer support specialist in behavioural health and has been self-supporting for 15 years despite facing severe schizophrenia, depression, ADHD, and anxiety. He credits his recovery to the support of his family and various professionals, including nurses, counsellors, and fellow AA members.
• The beginning of addiction rooted in college experiences
• Psychological struggles following substance use
• The devastating impact of homelessness during addiction
• Rock bottom as a turning point for seeking help
• The importance of family support in recovery efforts
• Multiple attempts at rehab and the journey to sobriety
• The expository power of writing and storytelling in recovery
• A message of hope for those struggling with addiction
Let's Enjoy!
To connect with Ryan or buy his book "TWILIGHT IN YORK"
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Thank you for listening - Hasta Pronto!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
DanielaSM (00:01):
Hi, I'm Daniela.
Welcome to my podcast, becauseEveryone has a Story, the place
to give ordinary people'sstories the chance to be shared
and preserved.
Our stories become the languageof connections.
Let's enjoy it, connect andrelate, because everyone has a
story.
Welcome.
(00:22):
My guest is Ryan Gray.
Ryan is a literature graduateand peer support specialist.
He shares his inspiring journeythrough addiction, recovery and
resilience, From battlinghomelessness and mental health
struggles to finding hope andhealing.
His story shows the power ofhitting rock bottom and the
(00:44):
importance of family support.
I feel incredibly grateful forthe opportunities this podcast
brings to meet people whocourageously open up about their
personal struggles and triumphs.
Conversations not only enrichus with insights into the
challenges others face, but alsoencourage us to be more
(01:08):
compassionate and lessjudgmental about situations we
may not fully understand.
Ignorance and lack of curiosityaffects the world deeply.
Before meeting Ryan, I knewvery little about his world.
I still don't know very much,but I am now more aware of how
others suffer and I have becomea little more compassionate
(01:32):
because of it.
I hope you enjoyed his story.
So welcome, ryan to the show.
Hello, how are you?
I'm good, thank you, and thankyou for being here.
I know you have a story toshare and I would like to know
why you want to share your story.
Ryan Gray (01:48):
Well, there are two reasons.
One, I wrote a book lastNovember.
It's a memoir, and I'm tryingto promote the book.
But, more importantly, I wantto talk about addiction and drug
addiction.
I've come a long way, a verylong way, through mental health
and through having an addiction,and I just want to be able to
reach out to people.
(02:08):
Hopefully, people will see mysuccess story and be inspired to
reach out themselves for help.
DanielaSM (02:14):
All right, wonderful.
That's good and it's true.
Sharing stories is how peopleget to learn other things right
From others as well.
So, ryan, when does your storystart?
Ryan Gray (02:26):
I would probably say when I was in college I started
drinking drinking not, you know,not drinking all the time, but
my sophomore year of college Istarted smoking weed.
That would be where it reallystarted the marijuana.
It was sort of a catalyst formental health problems too.
(02:47):
I developed schizophrenia AfterI started smoking weed.
I had a psychotic break and Iwas pulled out of school for a
couple of weeks.
DanielaSM (02:55):
Wow, and how was the psychotic experience I?
Ryan Gray (02:59):
thought I was possessed.
DanielaSM (03:00):
Wow, did you hurt yourself?
Ryan Gray (03:02):
Yeah, yeah, I had a cracked rib.
DanielaSM (03:05):
Were you alone.
Ryan Gray (03:13):
I wasn't alone, I was family downstairs.
I didn't seem normal, and so myparents tried to have me go
back to bed.
I kind of laid in bed for awhile and then at that point,
when they figured out whathappened, I was put in a mental
ward for a week or two, pulledout of school.
When I went back to school andI kept smoking weed.
My behaviors didn't change.
DanielaSM (03:33):
It didn't face you the fact that you were there.
Right right and why do youthink that happened?
Ryan Gray (03:39):
Jumping ahead a little bit.
One of the biggest things aboutaddiction is that it's tragic,
but most addicts have to hitbottom to have any change happen
.
So I wasn't ready at that pointto admit to myself that I had a
problem.
I thought I wanted to go backto school and I wanted to kind
(03:59):
of resume where I left off there, kind of doing the same
behavior, same things.
DanielaSM (04:05):
How were your classmates behaving with you
after they knew what happened?
Ryan Gray (04:10):
I don't think I told anybody about the psychotic
incident.
My friends were curious.
You know where I went?
I might have said I was, youknow, sick, couldn't go to class
, something like that.
DanielaSM (04:21):
And not jumping ahead .
But I want to ask you you knowthey do say that if you take
marijuana before your brain isdeveloped at age 24, that it
could happen.
Some people will have psychoticepisodes.
But do you think that there isa way that young people could
listen to the story and say, yes, I'm not going to do it.
(04:42):
I think it's impossible, right?
Everybody wants to have theirown experience.
Ryan Gray (04:46):
Yeah, that's kind of what I was saying about hitting
bottom.
Unfortunately, it makes thedecision of getting clean or
getting sober, makes it muchsimpler when we're faced with
bottom.
My bottom moment was basicallyI was living in somebody's
(05:09):
basement on a you know airmattress and you know I was
homeless basically, and all myfriends, they were being evicted
.
So I was, you know, hittingbottom.
I was faced with well, I can,you know, I can either go get
help, I can either go to rehab,or I can be just completely
(05:29):
homeless with nowhere to go.
So when we hit bottom, it makesit much simpler, much easier to
do, to ask for help and do theright thing.
DanielaSM (05:39):
You said your friends were evicted.
Ryan Gray (05:40):
Yeah, I had some friends that let me stay with
them, one in their basement, theother one on their couch and
those friends also dealt withsubstance abuse.
DanielaSM (05:51):
And when you say you hit bottom, what is it the
feeling?
How is it that you describedthat?
How can you know that you werethere?
Ryan Gray (06:00):
Just the idea, that, feeling that it really couldn't
get any worse, despite all thestruggle and all the suffering
of addiction.
I wouldn't just admit, I neededto admit, admit powerlessness
and unmanageability.
Yeah, it's just like thefeeling that it's this destitute
, feeling like things can't getany worse.
(06:23):
I guess is the best way I woulddescribe it.
DanielaSM (06:26):
Do you think that any of your friends had the same
situation where they felt thatthey hit a button, or were you
the only one from all thefriends that were doing drugs?
I think I was the only one.
Ryan Gray (06:37):
Most of my friends actually passed away from
overdose.
They were heroin addicts.
I wasn't a heroin addict butthey were.
And it really is interestingthat you brought that up because
you know I had my closestfriend at the time when I was on
the street.
We pretty much went ourseparate ways.
(06:58):
We kind of veered.
I veered one way and he veeredthe other way and you know he
ended up losing custody of hiskids.
I don't know how that pannedout because I haven't talked to
him since then.
Yeah, there's sort of a choice,and I think I was out of my
friends.
I think I was the only personwho chose recovery.
DanielaSM (07:20):
Out of your friends.
You also were the only one whohad psychotic episodes.
Ryan Gray (07:24):
Yes, yeah, I was the only one.
DanielaSM (07:26):
How is having schizophrenia and doing drugs?
It's different from not havingit, but can you explain?
Ryan Gray (07:33):
that, yeah, one affects the other, my substance
abuse, which might have beenpartly from the mental health
side, that wanting to kind ofnot feel this numbness, you know
, want to feel more of a highfeeling than a numb feeling from
the mental health.
(07:53):
But there's a term, dualdiagnosis, which is somebody who
suffers with both mental healthand substance abuse.
I was on a downward spiral whenI was on the street and this is
all by the way in my book mybook is it's a memoir called
Twilight in York.
My downward spiral was muchmore rapid.
(08:16):
I mean, everybody's differentbut in my case my mental health
really exasperated, or I wouldsay the drug use exasperated my
mental health really exasperated, or the drug, I would say the
drug use exasperated my mentalhealth and vice versa, and I
just had no stability.
I just, I just I lost completecontrol of my life in a very
short time.
Probably, you know you takeyour average addict and compare
(08:40):
them to me.
I just, I spiraled downdownward very quickly.
DanielaSM (08:46):
You left your parents .
Your parents didn't know whatwas happening to you.
Ryan Gray (08:49):
They were very supportive.
They had cut me off.
I wasn't allowed at home so Iwas cut off in that sense.
So there was a lot of distance.
You know, my mom would come andvisit me every week or two,
driving up from Baltimore toYork, pennsylvania, which was an
hour and a half drive.
They were, yeah, they weresupportive.
They helped me find halfwayhouses, they made sure I found
(09:15):
treatment later on.
So they were there.
But you know, in a sense therewas a lot of distance because I
wasn't allowed back home and Iwasn't in a good state of mind
to be close with anybody.
My relationship with my familythat's something that I got back
Blessings.
One of the miracles of recoveryis that I have gotten my family
(09:35):
back.
DanielaSM (09:36):
Yes, I heard that from other guests that what
helped them was the parentsbeing supportive.
Oh yeah, which is not easy,right?
It's hard on the parents to seetheir child going through these
and not understanding it.
It is whatever is in your headis very complicated for everyone
to understand.
Ryan Gray (09:58):
Yeah, no, I put them through the wringer, I put them
through the ringer, I put themthrough an awful lot.
DanielaSM (10:02):
And Ryan tell me something.
Ryan Gray (10:13):
When we're going in the streets and we see people
doing drugs, like other peopleare passing by that are not drug
addicts, do you see us in adifferent way, just people that
have their stuff together and Idon't know, maybe privileged or
almost wishing that some ofthose people would notice us?
And like I remember I had anexperience.
It was nighttime and I was withmy friends and kind of we
(10:34):
passed a fancy restaurant.
I looked through the glass ofthe restaurant, you know like I
could see them, they couldn'tsee us.
The restaurant, you know like Icould see them, they couldn't
see us.
I sort of just saw the peopledrinking, you know, expensive,
expensive wine and stuff andcold.
I was hungry, didn't reallyhave my own place to live.
I just sort of a almost like anenvy, like envious, like one
(10:55):
bottle of wine probably couldhave fed my friends and I for a
couple of days.
DanielaSM (11:01):
Now, when you walk on the street, do you do things
differently?
Ryan Gray (11:04):
I think when I see an addict on the street I think I
have a better understanding.
Before I was on the street Iprobably looked at, you know,
homeless people and addicts likeasking for change.
It used to be kind of arrogant,like I think a lot of people
(11:27):
have this arrogance that if thatperson wanted to get better,
they could just fit you know ahundred hundred dollars or
something and they'd get a hoteland clean up and get a job and
do all this stuff.
That's easy for us, but whenyou're on the street it's hard
to piece things together likedates and times, and it's harder
(11:49):
to make things happen.
For example, riding the bus.
I have to get on the right busat the right time.
I have to have a dollar in mypocket.
I have to ask for the transferticket.
I've got to ride the bus, getoff at the right stop, find the
next bus, transfer onto that bus, get off where I need to be
(12:13):
Things we take for granted.
When you're on the street it'sa little bit more confusing.
DanielaSM (12:21):
So when you see addicts on the street, do you do
anything?
Ryan Gray (12:25):
Yeah, sometimes I'll give them a few dollars or $5.
I'm not the richest personright now.
DanielaSM (12:33):
But is money what you need to share?
Or do you sit with them andtell them your story, or you
walk away, you avoid them.
Ryan Gray (12:43):
Yeah, that's a good point Talk to them and give them
my story.
I probably wouldn't normally dothat.
DanielaSM (12:49):
But since you've been in both sides, do you think
that they will be receptive tosomebody telling them a story or
asking them questions?
Ryan Gray (12:57):
It seems like not everybody wants to get recovery,
according to what you said,yeah, or even help them to have
a drug problem and even helpthem find a rehab.
DanielaSM (13:07):
But not everybody wants to be helped.
It's true, coming back to you,you were on the streets and then
you decided that you wanted toget help.
So how was that?
What did you do to get help?
Ryan Gray (13:18):
So my mom and my brother, they drove up on my
birthday my birth date birthdayis December 26th and my sobriety
birthday is December 26th sothey came up from Baltimore,
took me out to eat for mybirthday.
We were talking about going torehab and the situation I was in
that I described earlier aboutmy friends being evicted and I
(13:42):
had nowhere else to go it didn'tseem like too much to just go
to rehab and just try that wayof life, not even accepting it
all at once.
I'm real big about that.
I'm big about not trying tomake, you know, dramatic
overnight changes, but gradualchanges that transpire and take
place over time.
So I had, you know, I had thewillingness to say, okay, let's
(14:05):
go to rehab, I'll do, I'll, I'll, I'll just, I'll just try this.
I'm not, like I said, notcommitted to anything right away
, but you know I had nowhereelse to go, so it's kind of a
easy, easy choice.
DanielaSM (14:19):
Okay, that's great.
That's great, and it was yourfirst time going to rehab.
Ryan Gray (14:24):
No, I've been to rehab three times.
Okay, the first time I leftearly, I didn't want to be there
.
I left out for a week.
The second time I left, I leftthe rehab grounds to get drugs
and then came back onto thegrounds and I was caught.
They kicked me out.
And then the third time, I wasonly there for two weeks.
I didn't want to stay, prettymuch just bailed, and that was
(14:48):
how I ended up going to York.
I was going to ask you if itwould be okay to read two
paragraphs from my book.
DanielaSM (14:55):
Okay, that's great.
Ryan Gray (14:57):
This is chapter, the end of chapter one.
When I went to bed, I lay therefeeling alive.
The sounds on the streetcarried in through the open
windows, though it had died,down into the late hours of the
night, silent but for anoccasional car driving past, a
drinker yelling down the streetcorridors, shrill voices
(15:19):
lamenting, undulating,penetrating through every open
window for blocks, coloringdreams.
As the city slept Outside, theworld was alight in an eerie,
bright orange glow from thestreet lamps.
The old, dirtied windowsblurred and refracted the light,
accentuating, accentuated it,making the whole world orange.
A breeze came in through theopen windows and it felt cool
(15:40):
and good.
The sounds of locusts wereserene and in harmony.
The balmy air had cleansed thatfunky indoor stuff in his smell
, created by the three of us ina tight space, and cleared away
the musty smell sealed in theold house and as the air filled
the room.
I fell asleep on a soft cloud oftranquility.
DanielaSM (16:03):
You wrote all that Mm-hmm.
Wow, that's beautiful.
How did you develop to such abeautiful writing style?
Ryan Gray (16:09):
I think it's practice Also.
That's what I studied andthat's from my book, the book I
was talking about.
I also studied it in college.
I went back to school.
One of my successes in mysuccess story was I went back to
school.
It was one of the one of mysuccesses in my success story
was I went back to school andgot my bachelor's in literature,
creative writing.
DanielaSM (16:27):
So how long were you in rehab the last time?
Ryan Gray (16:30):
The last time I was there, 28 days, 28 days was the
standard, I think.
I think nowadays it's supposedto be 90 days.
Okay, 28 days and in 28 daysyou got clean.
DanielaSM (16:38):
Okay, 28 days, and in 28 days you got clean.
Ryan Gray (16:42):
I've been clean since 2007.
So I have 16 years clean andsober.
DanielaSM (16:47):
Wonderful Congratulations, and, ryan, why
this time work?
Ryan Gray (16:57):
Kind of reiterating.
The choice being easier, I hadto hit bottom.
Like a lot of other addicts andalcoholics, I had to hit bottom
for any kind of change to bemade.
DanielaSM (17:01):
Okay, and so then you finished 28 days.
And what happened?
Where did you go?
Ryan Gray (17:06):
From there I went to a dual diagnosis facility for
two and a half months.
It's kind of like a award, butit's for dual diagnosis patients
.
So everybody there wasstruggling with a combination of
mental health problems andaddiction problems.
But I actually recovered fromaddiction pretty quickly Rehab
(17:29):
and a dual diagnosis facility.
I was pretty much recovered.
But it did take about two yearsof treatment for mental health
inpatient.
It was a long time and thenfrom there I was put in a group
home for another four and a halfyears.
DanielaSM (17:47):
And yes, because we're talking about the
addiction, but the psychosis,that's a difficult one too.
Ryan Gray (17:54):
Yeah, those several years were all to treat the.
I mean they accommodated me,they gave me rides to 12-step
groups and stuff like that, butfor the most part those you know
that two years and then fourand a half years, that was all
to address the mental healthside of things, the best I can
describe it.
You know, you take somebody whodoesn't have mental health
(18:18):
problems, have them use drugsand they're on a downward spiral
and then you take me with whohas mental health problems, on a
similar downward spiral butmuch worse and much faster, much
, much more more quickly.
DanielaSM (18:34):
Usually people go to rehab and then they go to where
you want, or people just go torehab.
Ryan Gray (18:39):
I would say, just rehab Okay.
DanielaSM (18:41):
And so you were two years.
It took you two years, but thenyou said you were four years
group home for four years.
Ryan Gray (18:46):
Yeah, and that the group home was.
I always compare it to anursing home.
Only nursing homes for theelderly group home is for the
mentally ill.
So yeah, I was in a group homefor a while.
DanielaSM (19:00):
That was very helpful .
You saw that as very helpful,okay.
Ryan Gray (19:04):
Yeah, I had a lot of therapy, vocational rehab.
I went back to school, like Iwas saying.
Oh wonderful Started.
You know, really writing andjust getting my strength back.
DanielaSM (19:15):
So while you were living there, you went to school
.
Ryan Gray (19:18):
Yeah, yeah.
I started out at the communitycollege.
Gradual change, baby steps.
I didn't go all the way tofull-time student.
I went with, started with oneclass, you know, got an A.
I was able to do it.
So the next semester I took twoclasses, then I took three
(19:39):
classes.
When I got to three classes Ikind of said, okay, this is my,
this is my love, this is my, youknow, comfortable workload.
So from that point forward Ialways took three classes all
the way up until graduation.
DanielaSM (19:59):
Oh, wonderful.
And how do you know that youwanted to study literature or
writing?
Ryan Gray (20:04):
You know I was already into writing, but I
thought, maybe if I studiedliterature it would make me a
better writer.
DanielaSM (20:11):
Ryan, you graduated and then you went to live on
your own.
You manage your schizophreniawith medications, or how does it
work?
Ryan Gray (20:19):
The psychosis turned into schizophrenia, which is
pretty common, I think.
Usually the progression ispsychosis and then
schizoaffective and thenschizophrenia.
My parents they helped me withrent and, yeah, I went back to
school.
My parents they helped me withrent and, yeah, I went back to
school, finished out school, gota car.
I had an ACT team which waslike a doctor, vocational rehab
(20:42):
and some other counselors Kindof coached me, helped me kind of
set goals and try to reachthose goals.
You know one of the goals wasto finish school, so I did that,
to start working, hold a steadyjob.
DanielaSM (20:56):
And you have a job.
Ryan Gray (20:57):
Yes to be working at a grocery store stocking shelves
just to have a little income onthe side.
My main job is the writing.
DanielaSM (21:07):
Okay, good, and so let's talk about your book.
How did you come with the idea?
Oh, I need to write a book.
Ryan Gray (21:12):
It actually happened when I was in school in 2015 or
2016.
I wrote a short story for aclass.
My fellow students said oh,this is really good.
You should tell the whole storyframe by frame rather than just
a short story.
You should write a book aboutthis.
I'll never forget the phraseframe by frame, just taking the
(21:35):
reader through it.
And that was in like 2015, 2016.
And I was surprised.
As a comic for writers, youspend more time revising than
actually writing.
Probably took me a year orsomething to write the book and
then several years of revision.
DanielaSM (21:54):
Oh really, wow.
And you didn't get any help,you did it on your own.
Ryan Gray (21:58):
I had an initial publisher, a small local
publisher or pretty much a ladywho was running her own
publishing company.
So I worked with her for a fewyears.
We would just kind of sit downtogether and go through it page
by page.
I wouldn't say anybody helpedcompose the book.
I had help with revision,support networks, like the
(22:18):
support of my family in myefforts.
DanielaSM (22:22):
Okay, great, going out of your home or dealing with
people in general, you can dealwith that normally, or is it
difficult for you sometimes?
Ryan Gray (22:32):
Oh, it can be difficult for sure.
I deal with a lot of anxiety.
I was recently diagnosed withgeneralized anxiety disorder and
social anxiety disorder.
A lot of my plate as it is andI don't need more mental illness
right now.
It's a constant battle.
DanielaSM (22:49):
And if you go back and you see the young Ryan,
would you say something to thatRyan?
Ryan Gray (22:55):
Kind of a warning.
Where do you think the drug useis going to lead you to?
You're going to be on thestreet and you're not going to
have anything.
I would just say to ask forhelp.
DanielaSM (23:11):
Okay, well, I am very happy that you are now a writer
and that things are better foryou.
You feel good.
You have other goals.
What is it that you would liketo do that is different, that
you would like to have?
Ryan Gray (23:26):
with what I have and not to be overly concerned about
book sales.
But one of my friends saidsuccess is in the work, not in
the number of books sold.
DanielaSM (23:40):
Yes, and all the things that you have
accomplished so far.
This is your path.
I think you are successful andyou keep going.
Ryan Gray (23:47):
Like maybe write some more, write some more books.
DanielaSM (23:49):
Yes, different ones, maybe.
So, ryan, is there anythingelse that I can help you with or
that you want to share?
Ryan Gray (23:57):
Yeah, I just like to tell people to just look, sort
of observe how far I've come inmental health treatment for many
years and that nobody isoutside of the reach of being
helped help.
There's the national what is it?
The SAMHSA national helpline,which is like a hotline for
(24:19):
substance abuse mental healthservices.
DanielaSM (24:22):
Yes, and then also that is important the family
doesn't abandon anyone.
Yes, right Cause, I thinkthat's the success Exactly,
exactly.
That you, you keep havingpeople wanting to help you.
Ryan Gray (24:34):
Thanks for having me.
DanielaSM (24:35):
Well, wonderful.
Ryan.
Thank you so much for sharingyour story.
I really appreciate it that youwere so vulnerable.
I love your writing style and Iwish all success.
I want people to follow you onFacebook and get to buy your
book.
You want to mention again whatis your website as well and the
name of your book.
Ryan Gray (24:53):
The name of my book is Twilight in York.
Name of the website istwilightinyorkcom.
DanielaSM (24:58):
Perfect.
Thank you so much, Ryan.
Ryan Gray (25:00):
Thank you, appreciate it, you're welcome.
DanielaSM (25:02):
I hope you enjoyed today's episode.
I am Daniela and you arelistening to, because Everyone
has a Story.
Please take five seconds rightnow and think of somebody in
your life that may enjoy whatyou just heard, or someone that
has a story to be shared andpreserved.
When you think of that person,shoot them a text with the link
(25:23):
of this podcast.
This will allow the ordinarymagic to go further.
Join me next time for anotherstory conversation.
Thank you for listening.
Hasta pronto.
Hi, I'm Daniela.
Welcome to my podcast, becauseEveryone has a Story, the place
to give ordinary people'sstories the chance to be shared
and preserved.
Our stories become the languageof connections.
Let's enjoy it, connect andrelate, because everyone has a
story.
Welcome.
(00:22):
My guest is Ryan Gray.
Ryan is a literature graduateand peer support specialist.
He shares his inspiring journeythrough addiction, recovery and
resilience, From battlinghomelessness and mental health
struggles to finding hope andhealing.
His story shows the power ofhitting rock bottom and the
(00:44):
importance of family support.
I feel incredibly grateful forthe opportunities this podcast
brings to meet people whocourageously open up about their
personal struggles and triumphs.
Conversations not only enrichus with insights into the
challenges others face, but alsoencourage us to be more
(01:08):
compassionate and lessjudgmental about situations we
may not fully understand.
Ignorance and lack of curiosityaffects the world deeply.
Before meeting Ryan, I knewvery little about his world.
I still don't know very much,but I am now more aware of how
others suffer and I have becomea little more compassionate
(01:32):
because of it.
I hope you enjoyed his story.
So welcome, ryan to the show.
Hello, how are you?
I'm good, thank you, and thankyou for being here.
I know you have a story toshare and I would like to know
why you want to share your story.
Ryan Gray (01:48):
Well, there are two reasons.
One, I wrote a book lastNovember.
It's a memoir, and I'm tryingto promote the book.
But, more importantly, I wantto talk about addiction and drug
addiction.
I've come a long way, a verylong way, through mental health
and through having an addiction,and I just want to be able to
reach out to people.
(02:08):
Hopefully, people will see mysuccess story and be inspired to
reach out themselves for help.
DanielaSM (02:14):
All right, wonderful.
That's good and it's true.
Sharing stories is how peopleget to learn other things right
From others as well.
So, ryan, when does your storystart?
Ryan Gray (02:26):
I would probably say when I was in college I started
drinking drinking not, you know,not drinking all the time, but
my sophomore year of college Istarted smoking weed.
That would be where it reallystarted the marijuana.
It was sort of a catalyst formental health problems too.
(02:47):
I developed schizophrenia AfterI started smoking weed.
I had a psychotic break and Iwas pulled out of school for a
couple of weeks.
DanielaSM (02:55):
Wow, and how was the psychotic experience I?
Ryan Gray (02:59):
thought I was possessed.
DanielaSM (03:00):
Wow, did you hurt yourself?
Ryan Gray (03:02):
Yeah, yeah, I had a cracked rib.
DanielaSM (03:05):
Were you alone.
Ryan Gray (03:13):
I wasn't alone, I was family downstairs.
I didn't seem normal, and so myparents tried to have me go
back to bed.
I kind of laid in bed for awhile and then at that point,
when they figured out whathappened, I was put in a mental
ward for a week or two, pulledout of school.
When I went back to school andI kept smoking weed.
My behaviors didn't change.
DanielaSM (03:33):
It didn't face you the fact that you were there.
Right right and why do youthink that happened?
Ryan Gray (03:39):
Jumping ahead a little bit.
One of the biggest things aboutaddiction is that it's tragic,
but most addicts have to hitbottom to have any change happen
.
So I wasn't ready at that pointto admit to myself that I had a
problem.
I thought I wanted to go backto school and I wanted to kind
(03:59):
of resume where I left off there, kind of doing the same
behavior, same things.
DanielaSM (04:05):
How were your classmates behaving with you
after they knew what happened?
Ryan Gray (04:10):
I don't think I told anybody about the psychotic
incident.
My friends were curious.
You know where I went?
I might have said I was, youknow, sick, couldn't go to class
, something like that.
DanielaSM (04:21):
And not jumping ahead .
But I want to ask you you knowthey do say that if you take
marijuana before your brain isdeveloped at age 24, that it
could happen.
Some people will have psychoticepisodes.
But do you think that there isa way that young people could
listen to the story and say, yes, I'm not going to do it.
(04:42):
I think it's impossible, right?
Everybody wants to have theirown experience.
Ryan Gray (04:46):
Yeah, that's kind of what I was saying about hitting
bottom.
Unfortunately, it makes thedecision of getting clean or
getting sober, makes it muchsimpler when we're faced with
bottom.
My bottom moment was basicallyI was living in somebody's
(05:09):
basement on a you know airmattress and you know I was
homeless basically, and all myfriends, they were being evicted
.
So I was, you know, hittingbottom.
I was faced with well, I can,you know, I can either go get
help, I can either go to rehab,or I can be just completely
(05:29):
homeless with nowhere to go.
So when we hit bottom, it makesit much simpler, much easier to
do, to ask for help and do theright thing.
DanielaSM (05:39):
You said your friends were evicted.
Ryan Gray (05:40):
Yeah, I had some friends that let me stay with
them, one in their basement, theother one on their couch and
those friends also dealt withsubstance abuse.
DanielaSM (05:51):
And when you say you hit bottom, what is it the
feeling?
How is it that you describedthat?
How can you know that you werethere?
Ryan Gray (06:00):
Just the idea, that, feeling that it really couldn't
get any worse, despite all thestruggle and all the suffering
of addiction.
I wouldn't just admit, I neededto admit, admit powerlessness
and unmanageability.
Yeah, it's just like thefeeling that it's this destitute
, feeling like things can't getany worse.
(06:23):
I guess is the best way I woulddescribe it.
DanielaSM (06:26):
Do you think that any of your friends had the same
situation where they felt thatthey hit a button, or were you
the only one from all thefriends that were doing drugs?
I think I was the only one.
Ryan Gray (06:37):
Most of my friends actually passed away from
overdose.
They were heroin addicts.
I wasn't a heroin addict butthey were.
And it really is interestingthat you brought that up because
you know I had my closestfriend at the time when I was on
the street.
We pretty much went ourseparate ways.
(06:58):
We kind of veered.
I veered one way and he veeredthe other way and you know he
ended up losing custody of hiskids.
I don't know how that pannedout because I haven't talked to
him since then.
Yeah, there's sort of a choice,and I think I was out of my
friends.
I think I was the only personwho chose recovery.
DanielaSM (07:20):
Out of your friends.
You also were the only one whohad psychotic episodes.
Ryan Gray (07:24):
Yes, yeah, I was the only one.
DanielaSM (07:26):
How is having schizophrenia and doing drugs?
It's different from not havingit, but can you explain?
Ryan Gray (07:33):
that, yeah, one affects the other, my substance
abuse, which might have beenpartly from the mental health
side, that wanting to kind ofnot feel this numbness, you know
, want to feel more of a highfeeling than a numb feeling from
the mental health.
(07:53):
But there's a term, dualdiagnosis, which is somebody who
suffers with both mental healthand substance abuse.
I was on a downward spiral whenI was on the street and this is
all by the way in my book mybook is it's a memoir called
Twilight in York.
My downward spiral was muchmore rapid.
(08:16):
I mean, everybody's differentbut in my case my mental health
really exasperated, or I wouldsay the drug use exasperated my
mental health really exasperated, or the drug, I would say the
drug use exasperated my mentalhealth and vice versa, and I
just had no stability.
I just, I just I lost completecontrol of my life in a very
short time.
Probably, you know you takeyour average addict and compare
(08:40):
them to me.
I just, I spiraled downdownward very quickly.
DanielaSM (08:46):
You left your parents .
Your parents didn't know whatwas happening to you.
Ryan Gray (08:49):
They were very supportive.
They had cut me off.
I wasn't allowed at home so Iwas cut off in that sense.
So there was a lot of distance.
You know, my mom would come andvisit me every week or two,
driving up from Baltimore toYork, pennsylvania, which was an
hour and a half drive.
They were, yeah, they weresupportive.
They helped me find halfwayhouses, they made sure I found
(09:15):
treatment later on.
So they were there.
But you know, in a sense therewas a lot of distance because I
wasn't allowed back home and Iwasn't in a good state of mind
to be close with anybody.
My relationship with my familythat's something that I got back
Blessings.
One of the miracles of recoveryis that I have gotten my family
(09:35):
back.
DanielaSM (09:36):
Yes, I heard that from other guests that what
helped them was the parentsbeing supportive.
Oh yeah, which is not easy,right?
It's hard on the parents to seetheir child going through these
and not understanding it.
It is whatever is in your headis very complicated for everyone
to understand.
Ryan Gray (09:58):
Yeah, no, I put them through the wringer, I put them
through the ringer, I put themthrough an awful lot.
DanielaSM (10:02):
And Ryan tell me something.
Ryan Gray (10:13):
When we're going in the streets and we see people
doing drugs, like other peopleare passing by that are not drug
addicts, do you see us in adifferent way, just people that
have their stuff together and Idon't know, maybe privileged or
almost wishing that some ofthose people would notice us?
And like I remember I had anexperience.
It was nighttime and I was withmy friends and kind of we
(10:34):
passed a fancy restaurant.
I looked through the glass ofthe restaurant, you know like I
could see them, they couldn'tsee us.
The restaurant, you know like Icould see them, they couldn't
see us.
I sort of just saw the peopledrinking, you know, expensive,
expensive wine and stuff andcold.
I was hungry, didn't reallyhave my own place to live.
I just sort of a almost like anenvy, like envious, like one
(10:55):
bottle of wine probably couldhave fed my friends and I for a
couple of days.
DanielaSM (11:01):
Now, when you walk on the street, do you do things
differently?
Ryan Gray (11:04):
I think when I see an addict on the street I think I
have a better understanding.
Before I was on the street Iprobably looked at, you know,
homeless people and addicts likeasking for change.
It used to be kind of arrogant,like I think a lot of people
(11:27):
have this arrogance that if thatperson wanted to get better,
they could just fit you know ahundred hundred dollars or
something and they'd get a hoteland clean up and get a job and
do all this stuff.
That's easy for us, but whenyou're on the street it's hard
to piece things together likedates and times, and it's harder
(11:49):
to make things happen.
For example, riding the bus.
I have to get on the right busat the right time.
I have to have a dollar in mypocket.
I have to ask for the transferticket.
I've got to ride the bus, getoff at the right stop, find the
next bus, transfer onto that bus, get off where I need to be
(12:13):
Things we take for granted.
When you're on the street it'sa little bit more confusing.
DanielaSM (12:21):
So when you see addicts on the street, do you do
anything?
Ryan Gray (12:25):
Yeah, sometimes I'll give them a few dollars or $5.
I'm not the richest personright now.
DanielaSM (12:33):
But is money what you need to share?
Or do you sit with them andtell them your story, or you
walk away, you avoid them.
Ryan Gray (12:43):
Yeah, that's a good point Talk to them and give them
my story.
I probably wouldn't normally dothat.
DanielaSM (12:49):
But since you've been in both sides, do you think
that they will be receptive tosomebody telling them a story or
asking them questions?
Ryan Gray (12:57):
It seems like not everybody wants to get recovery,
according to what you said,yeah, or even help them to have
a drug problem and even helpthem find a rehab.
DanielaSM (13:07):
But not everybody wants to be helped.
It's true, coming back to you,you were on the streets and then
you decided that you wanted toget help.
So how was that?
What did you do to get help?
Ryan Gray (13:18):
So my mom and my brother, they drove up on my
birthday my birth date birthdayis December 26th and my sobriety
birthday is December 26th sothey came up from Baltimore,
took me out to eat for mybirthday.
We were talking about going torehab and the situation I was in
that I described earlier aboutmy friends being evicted and I
(13:42):
had nowhere else to go it didn'tseem like too much to just go
to rehab and just try that wayof life, not even accepting it
all at once.
I'm real big about that.
I'm big about not trying tomake, you know, dramatic
overnight changes, but gradualchanges that transpire and take
place over time.
So I had, you know, I had thewillingness to say, okay, let's
(14:05):
go to rehab, I'll do, I'll, I'll, I'll just, I'll just try this.
I'm not, like I said, notcommitted to anything right away
, but you know I had nowhereelse to go, so it's kind of a
easy, easy choice.
DanielaSM (14:19):
Okay, that's great.
That's great, and it was yourfirst time going to rehab.
Ryan Gray (14:24):
No, I've been to rehab three times.
Okay, the first time I leftearly, I didn't want to be there
.
I left out for a week.
The second time I left, I leftthe rehab grounds to get drugs
and then came back onto thegrounds and I was caught.
They kicked me out.
And then the third time, I wasonly there for two weeks.
I didn't want to stay, prettymuch just bailed, and that was
(14:48):
how I ended up going to York.
I was going to ask you if itwould be okay to read two
paragraphs from my book.
DanielaSM (14:55):
Okay, that's great.
Ryan Gray (14:57):
This is chapter, the end of chapter one.
When I went to bed, I lay therefeeling alive.
The sounds on the streetcarried in through the open
windows, though it had died,down into the late hours of the
night, silent but for anoccasional car driving past, a
drinker yelling down the streetcorridors, shrill voices
(15:19):
lamenting, undulating,penetrating through every open
window for blocks, coloringdreams.
As the city slept Outside, theworld was alight in an eerie,
bright orange glow from thestreet lamps.
The old, dirtied windowsblurred and refracted the light,
accentuating, accentuated it,making the whole world orange.
A breeze came in through theopen windows and it felt cool
(15:40):
and good.
The sounds of locusts wereserene and in harmony.
The balmy air had cleansed thatfunky indoor stuff in his smell
, created by the three of us ina tight space, and cleared away
the musty smell sealed in theold house and as the air filled
the room.
I fell asleep on a soft cloud oftranquility.
DanielaSM (16:03):
You wrote all that Mm-hmm.
Wow, that's beautiful.
How did you develop to such abeautiful writing style?
Ryan Gray (16:09):
I think it's practice Also.
That's what I studied andthat's from my book, the book I
was talking about.
I also studied it in college.
I went back to school.
One of my successes in mysuccess story was I went back to
school.
It was one of the one of mysuccesses in my success story
was I went back to school andgot my bachelor's in literature,
creative writing.
DanielaSM (16:27):
So how long were you in rehab the last time?
Ryan Gray (16:30):
The last time I was there, 28 days, 28 days was the
standard, I think.
I think nowadays it's supposedto be 90 days.
Okay, 28 days and in 28 daysyou got clean.
DanielaSM (16:38):
Okay, 28 days, and in 28 days you got clean.
Ryan Gray (16:42):
I've been clean since 2007.
So I have 16 years clean andsober.
DanielaSM (16:47):
Wonderful Congratulations, and, ryan, why
this time work?
Ryan Gray (16:57):
Kind of reiterating.
The choice being easier, I hadto hit bottom.
Like a lot of other addicts andalcoholics, I had to hit bottom
for any kind of change to bemade.
DanielaSM (17:01):
Okay, and so then you finished 28 days.
And what happened?
Where did you go?
Ryan Gray (17:06):
From there I went to a dual diagnosis facility for
two and a half months.
It's kind of like a award, butit's for dual diagnosis patients
.
So everybody there wasstruggling with a combination of
mental health problems andaddiction problems.
But I actually recovered fromaddiction pretty quickly Rehab
(17:29):
and a dual diagnosis facility.
I was pretty much recovered.
But it did take about two yearsof treatment for mental health
inpatient.
It was a long time and thenfrom there I was put in a group
home for another four and a halfyears.
DanielaSM (17:47):
And yes, because we're talking about the
addiction, but the psychosis,that's a difficult one too.
Ryan Gray (17:54):
Yeah, those several years were all to treat the.
I mean they accommodated me,they gave me rides to 12-step
groups and stuff like that, butfor the most part those you know
that two years and then fourand a half years, that was all
to address the mental healthside of things, the best I can
describe it.
You know, you take somebody whodoesn't have mental health
(18:18):
problems, have them use drugsand they're on a downward spiral
and then you take me with whohas mental health problems, on a
similar downward spiral butmuch worse and much faster, much
, much more more quickly.
DanielaSM (18:34):
Usually people go to rehab and then they go to where
you want, or people just go torehab.
Ryan Gray (18:39):
I would say, just rehab Okay.
DanielaSM (18:41):
And so you were two years.
It took you two years, but thenyou said you were four years
group home for four years.
Ryan Gray (18:46):
Yeah, and that the group home was.
I always compare it to anursing home.
Only nursing homes for theelderly group home is for the
mentally ill.
So yeah, I was in a group homefor a while.
DanielaSM (19:00):
That was very helpful .
You saw that as very helpful,okay.
Ryan Gray (19:04):
Yeah, I had a lot of therapy, vocational rehab.
I went back to school, like Iwas saying.
Oh wonderful Started.
You know, really writing andjust getting my strength back.
DanielaSM (19:15):
So while you were living there, you went to school
.
Ryan Gray (19:18):
Yeah, yeah.
I started out at the communitycollege.
Gradual change, baby steps.
I didn't go all the way tofull-time student.
I went with, started with oneclass, you know, got an A.
I was able to do it.
So the next semester I took twoclasses, then I took three
(19:39):
classes.
When I got to three classes Ikind of said, okay, this is my,
this is my love, this is my, youknow, comfortable workload.
So from that point forward Ialways took three classes all
the way up until graduation.
DanielaSM (19:59):
Oh, wonderful.
And how do you know that youwanted to study literature or
writing?
Ryan Gray (20:04):
You know I was already into writing, but I
thought, maybe if I studiedliterature it would make me a
better writer.
DanielaSM (20:11):
Ryan, you graduated and then you went to live on
your own.
You manage your schizophreniawith medications, or how does it
work?
Ryan Gray (20:19):
The psychosis turned into schizophrenia, which is
pretty common, I think.
Usually the progression ispsychosis and then
schizoaffective and thenschizophrenia.
My parents they helped me withrent and, yeah, I went back to
school.
My parents they helped me withrent and, yeah, I went back to
school, finished out school, gota car.
I had an ACT team which waslike a doctor, vocational rehab
(20:42):
and some other counselors Kindof coached me, helped me kind of
set goals and try to reachthose goals.
You know one of the goals wasto finish school, so I did that,
to start working, hold a steadyjob.
DanielaSM (20:56):
And you have a job.
Ryan Gray (20:57):
Yes to be working at a grocery store stocking shelves
just to have a little income onthe side.
My main job is the writing.
DanielaSM (21:07):
Okay, good, and so let's talk about your book.
How did you come with the idea?
Oh, I need to write a book.
Ryan Gray (21:12):
It actually happened when I was in school in 2015 or
2016.
I wrote a short story for aclass.
My fellow students said oh,this is really good.
You should tell the whole storyframe by frame rather than just
a short story.
You should write a book aboutthis.
I'll never forget the phraseframe by frame, just taking the
(21:35):
reader through it.
And that was in like 2015, 2016.
And I was surprised.
As a comic for writers, youspend more time revising than
actually writing.
Probably took me a year orsomething to write the book and
then several years of revision.
DanielaSM (21:54):
Oh really, wow.
And you didn't get any help,you did it on your own.
Ryan Gray (21:58):
I had an initial publisher, a small local
publisher or pretty much a ladywho was running her own
publishing company.
So I worked with her for a fewyears.
We would just kind of sit downtogether and go through it page
by page.
I wouldn't say anybody helpedcompose the book.
I had help with revision,support networks, like the
(22:18):
support of my family in myefforts.
DanielaSM (22:22):
Okay, great, going out of your home or dealing with
people in general, you can dealwith that normally, or is it
difficult for you sometimes?
Ryan Gray (22:32):
Oh, it can be difficult for sure.
I deal with a lot of anxiety.
I was recently diagnosed withgeneralized anxiety disorder and
social anxiety disorder.
A lot of my plate as it is andI don't need more mental illness
right now.
It's a constant battle.
DanielaSM (22:49):
And if you go back and you see the young Ryan,
would you say something to thatRyan?
Ryan Gray (22:55):
Kind of a warning.
Where do you think the drug useis going to lead you to?
You're going to be on thestreet and you're not going to
have anything.
I would just say to ask forhelp.
DanielaSM (23:11):
Okay, well, I am very happy that you are now a writer
and that things are better foryou.
You feel good.
You have other goals.
What is it that you would liketo do that is different, that
you would like to have?
Ryan Gray (23:26):
with what I have and not to be overly concerned about
book sales.
But one of my friends saidsuccess is in the work, not in
the number of books sold.
DanielaSM (23:40):
Yes, and all the things that you have
accomplished so far.
This is your path.
I think you are successful andyou keep going.
Ryan Gray (23:47):
Like maybe write some more, write some more books.
DanielaSM (23:49):
Yes, different ones, maybe.
So, ryan, is there anythingelse that I can help you with or
that you want to share?
Ryan Gray (23:57):
Yeah, I just like to tell people to just look, sort
of observe how far I've come inmental health treatment for many
years and that nobody isoutside of the reach of being
helped help.
There's the national what is it?
The SAMHSA national helpline,which is like a hotline for
(24:19):
substance abuse mental healthservices.
DanielaSM (24:22):
Yes, and then also that is important the family
doesn't abandon anyone.
Yes, right Cause, I thinkthat's the success Exactly,
exactly.
That you, you keep havingpeople wanting to help you.
Ryan Gray (24:34):
Thanks for having me.
DanielaSM (24:35):
Well, wonderful.
Ryan.
Thank you so much for sharingyour story.
I really appreciate it that youwere so vulnerable.
I love your writing style and Iwish all success.
I want people to follow you onFacebook and get to buy your
book.
You want to mention again whatis your website as well and the
name of your book.
Ryan Gray (24:53):
The name of my book is Twilight in York.
Name of the website istwilightinyorkcom.
DanielaSM (24:58):
Perfect.
Thank you so much, Ryan.
Ryan Gray (25:00):
Thank you, appreciate it, you're welcome.
DanielaSM (25:02):
I hope you enjoyed today's episode.
I am Daniela and you arelistening to, because Everyone
has a Story.
Please take five seconds rightnow and think of somebody in
your life that may enjoy whatyou just heard, or someone that
has a story to be shared andpreserved.
When you think of that person,shoot them a text with the link
(25:23):
of this podcast.
This will allow the ordinarymagic to go further.
Join me next time for anotherstory conversation.
Thank you for listening.
Hasta pronto.
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