September 18, 2023 • 40 mins
Today's story, Janey Brown, dives deep into the powerful world of music and its profound impact on mental health. From Janey's fearless early performances to her high school years marked by feelings of entrapment, we follow her journey through performance anxiety and the influencing factors of nature vs. nurture in this context.
Janey is a coach with expertise in trauma, a professional singer, and a keynote speaker. She also studies psychology and plans to publish her first book in 2023.
Janey bares her soul, sharing her struggles with unresolved trauma and mental health issues that demanded her attention. Hear her story of juggling roles: from being a martial artist and performer to a fitness industry worker and aspiring musician. Witness the power of her voice, her very lifeline, fading away, and the terrifying liberation she experiences in its absence. Janey's quest for healing begins with vocal therapy - a transformative journey that enlightens and inspires.
As we journey further, Janey shares her personal growth and transformation story and how she merged art, music, and mental health to create FEARCE Academy. Gain insight into her upcoming book and her decision to let go of titles and attachments to reduce suffering. Join us in this compelling exploration of the symbiotic relationship between music/ art and mental health and how Janey turned her challenges into opportunities for growth and healing.
To connect with Janey: https://janeybrown.com/
Her new song: https://open.spotify.com/track/4ZJAFNt8KEh9LpeHPV2hgd?si=KV_gfMZJQWKil5fUN9O1-w
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Daniela SM (00:08):
Hi, I'm Daniela.
Welcome to my podcast, becauseeveryone has a story, the place
to give ordinary people, stories, the chance to be shared and
preserved.
Our stories become the languageof connections.
Let's enjoy it, connect andrelate, because everyone has a
story.
Welcome my guest, jane Brown.
(00:33):
Jane is a trauma coach, aprofessional singer and a
keynote speaker, as well as shestudies psychology and plans to
publish her first book in 2023.
It was lovely to meet her.
We had a wonderful conversation.
She is a very sweet andintrospective woman who has
(00:54):
learned a lot and grownimmensely, and you will never
stop for her.
She dives deep into thepowerful world of mental health
that has impacted her throughher performing music and dancing
.
I find this is a compellingexploration of the symbiotic
relationship between music, artand mental health and how Jane
(01:17):
turned her challenges intoopportunities for growth and
healing, a journey that willcontinue.
Let's enjoy her story.
Welcome, Janey, to the podcast.
I am very excited and gratefulthat you're here.
I'm grateful too.
Yes, yes, jane, tell me why doyou want to share a story?
Janey Brown (01:35):
I believe that I was put on earth to help people.
Pretty plain and simple, Ithink.
By sharing some of the thingsI've learned at least I hope
that maybe prevent people fromthe same suffering that I had
the learnings from the suffering, or the learnings- from the
achievements.
Daniela SM (01:52):
Yes, thank you for sharing a story because, as I
tell everyone, it's so importantthat you share and then, even
if nothing super bad hashappened, even just your life is
something that nobody can takeaway.
It's your story and we shouldalways share it, thank you.
Thanks for asking.
Yes, jane, when does your storystart?
(02:13):
I?
Janey Brown (02:14):
suppose it starts September 2nd 1986, which is
when I was born.
But I think the one that we'llfocus on today is more centered
around music and mental health,and my music journey publicly
began when I was 10 years oldand I stepped onto my first
public stage.
When I first started performingI was fearless, in every sense
(02:35):
of the word.
I literally had no fear, andfear is learned, so that kind of
makes sense.
I hadn't really gone throughthe hardship of what it meant to
be a performer full-time andprofessionally.
I wasn't exposed yet at thattime to the harshness of the
entertainment industry, so I wasfearless.
Around 14, 15, I got into highschool and that's when all of
the insecurities start foreverybody and that's when sort
(02:57):
of the mental health strugglesreally started to poke their
head above the surface.
So that's the beginning of bothmy music career and probably
the mental health battles isbetween age 10 and 15.
Daniela SM (03:10):
It is interesting that you said that you have no
fears at age 10, because usuallypeople you know kids are not
fearless at five, six days,start losing that and so.
So how is it that you managedto be for so long fearless?
Janey Brown (03:26):
Well, I'd argue that I did have fear in other
things.
When I was a kid, like Iremember, my first sort of
exposure to performance wasthrough dance, actually, and
gymnastics.
I remember being very afraid,both for dance competitions and
for gymnastics competitions,between you know, maybe ages
five to nine.
And then when I, when I gotinto musical theater performance
(03:49):
because that was the firstpublic stage connected to a
production, obviously Iperformed in gymnastics
competitions and stuff publicly,but my first production that I
was in was age 10.
And I think it's because fearhadn't been learned in that
domain, like fear is a learnedfeeling and experience, and I
hadn't learned to be afraid inthat domain.
But it came quite quickly after, like it was only like four
(04:12):
years where I don't recallexperiencing any fearful sort of
episodes.
It wasn't until beginning ofhigh school where I, you know,
began to really really getafraid and insecure, but I still
kept going, which that is awhole other story.
Daniela SM (04:28):
What happened that you started to feel secure?
Janey Brown (04:30):
Yeah, I mean, I guess I can.
I can describe it by way offeeling.
I remember being under thespotlight, let's say prior to
high school, and it was just.
It was this feeling of freedom,it was this feeling of being
empowered and impervious.
When I entered into high school, the feeling became being
trapped, being more like therewas more feelings of sadness and
(04:55):
pain, being confined or trappedand sort of having to force
myself to do it, rather thanjust this thing that I was
intrinsically inspired to do.
At the time of experiencing thatshift, I didn't know that
that's what I was experiencing.
It was I kind of just overwroteit and people would say, you
know, like that's, that's what aperformer experience is.
(05:16):
It's like everyone is afraid asa performer and it's just part
of the, the career.
I didn't learn until much, muchlater that actually what I was
experiencing was performanceanxiety and that that
performance anxiety was drivenby an undiagnosed mental health
condition or conditions thatthat were creating a traumatic
(05:38):
experience for me.
So it's it's complicated inthat at the time I knew that I
felt different.
I just didn't know what to callit and people were invalidating
the experience because theywere saying, like it's normal to
get butterflies.
What I didn't realize is that Iwasn't just experiencing
butterflies.
I was experiencing tiny vampirebats with machetes, and there's
(06:01):
a difference.
There's a difference betweenbutterflies and sort of this
healthy stress and tiny vampirebats with machetes and unhealthy
stress.
And that unhealthy stress waswhat I was experiencing and that
grew over time until I couldn'treally go on.
Daniela SM (06:17):
Well, the thing is, people didn't validate it
because they couldn't feel thatyou had machetes vampires versus
butterflies.
Yeah, you mentioned mentalhealth conditions, where you had
these mental issues, or theycame because of the situation.
Janey Brown (06:31):
I'll definitely sort of unpack that a bit,
because I think it's worthunpacking.
I just want to validate whatyou just said, which was they
couldn't have validated myexperience because they didn't
know it and there wasn'tlanguage for it.
Back then, like, mental healthwasn't a topic publicly and in
fact there was a much biggerstigma around it and that stigma
kept it to be a very shamefulsubject.
(06:52):
People didn't want to talkabout fear.
They didn't see that as just afundamental part of the human
experience.
They saw it as a weakness,especially in the performance
industry.
So it wasn't really a topicthat you could open up about and
get help, for Fear is normal,but I had anxiety, which those
are two different things.
Yeah, there's wasn't languagefor it.
We didn't have the educationthat we have now.
(07:13):
We didn't have the managementof the stigma, you're right, and
I couldn't have been helpedbecause it wasn't available.
Okay, so with mental healthconditions that are diagnosable,
it's always a combination ofnature versus nurture.
So the age old debate inpsychology is is the way that we
are a by product of our natureor is the way that we are a
(07:36):
byproduct of being nurtured acertain way by our environment?
And the answer that at leastI've been coming to over and
over again with you know, myresearch is that it's both, and
most, if not all, people thatare educated in psychology would
say the same thing.
It's not just one or the other.
I was predisposed to mentalhealth conditions because of
(07:56):
some history in my family andbecause of some genes that I
likely carry, and it was myenvironment over time that
cultivated an inability tomanage my mental health and, by
way of what you know,psychologists would call mental
health conditions.
It was sort of an interplaybetween having pretty
problematic mental healthchallenges behind the scenes and
(08:19):
this consistent exposure tofear and insecurity on stage and
zero management around that.
So it was kind of coming fromboth ends.
It was the stage fright and theanxiety around that and the
lack of coping mechanisms andthis mental health condition
that was developing behind thescenes that was contributing to
(08:43):
the problem.
Daniela SM (08:43):
Well, thank you for explaining that.
That's really interesting.
Yeah, I agree.
Yes, yes.
And then what happened?
So you entered high school andyou had no knowledge of what was
.
You were just feeling, but youdidn't know what was going on.
Yeah, exactly.
Janey Brown (08:57):
So when I entered high school and at a certain
point in high school I think itwas around age 15, I just
started to really not be able tomanage my experience.
I got into drugs and alcoholand I started to pull away from
performing.
I always did performing.
I've performed every year of mylife.
(09:17):
Actually, for the last 26 yearsin one way or another I've been
on stage.
So I never stopped fully, but Iremember like self sabotaging
and I would slink back into sortof like background character
roles and I skipped school and Ijust had all of these unhealthy
coping mechanisms.
I was a pothead and I wasfailing and I was escaping, I
(09:38):
was acting out a lot.
I can't really explain kind ofwhat turned me around in those
years.
There were some traumatic eventsthat happened in those years
and I think that thatcontributed to again the
compilation of everything thedrugs, the need to sort of pull
back from performing a littlebit, the inability to manage my
(09:59):
mental health.
I think those were connected tosome traumatic experiences that
I had at that time.
By the grace of God, I rememberin the latter half of my 16th
year I just realized I was nevergoing to get out of the small
town that I was born in.
If I continued to do this and Ijust I remember just quitting
Cold Turkey I just I stopped andI got focused again and I got
(10:21):
back on track and I started toreally apply myself and that
sort of carried me out of myhigh school years and into my
20s, which are a whole other bagof ups and downs and mistakes
and unhealthy coping mechanismsand lack of managing this mental
health condition properly.
(10:41):
I still didn't know that I hadhad trauma in my life and I
still didn't know that I hadreally problematic mental health
challenges until like my 30sand during your high school
years.
Daniela SM (10:53):
How were your parents helping you?
Janey Brown (10:56):
My parents and I love each other to death.
I know for sure that that'salways something that I can
carry in my heart.
In my high school years therewas trouble at home.
It was very hard at home andthey know that and we've we've
really done a lot of healingtogether.
I think they did the best theycould to support me in the best
way they knew how, but familylife what it was, adding to the
(11:17):
problem essentially,unfortunately, and so, and you
were living in a small town atthe time, and then you decided
that you finish high school andleave, yeah, so actually, when I
finished high school Iauditioned for a bunch of
different musical theaterperformance universities.
Maybe I only auditioned for one,I can't remember, but I didn't
get into the one that I wantedand there was a new program
(11:39):
opening up in my small town andso I went there for one year and
at the end of that year I gotmy first touring professional
show and I hated it.
Like it was cool to experiencethat, but I was really really
over musical theater performanceand so I kind of associated
that with my childhood and itwas kind of a very young you
(11:59):
know, even though there's manyadult musical theater
performance shows, just thestyle of performing for me
wasn't what I was passionateabout anymore.
So I actually dropped out ofcollege and I moved.
This was around 18 years old.
I moved out at 17 and at 18, Imoved to the city of Toronto,
which is, you know, a massivecity in Canada, you know, moved
(12:22):
in with a roommate and that wasthe beginning of my working life
as a professional and the endof my small town life,
essentially.
Daniela SM (12:30):
So we talk about your childhood and your high
school.
You want to go now on your 20s?
Yeah, absolutely, from decadeto decade.
Janey Brown (12:38):
Yeah, exactly yeah .
Luckily there's not many moredecades to go.
So I moved to Toronto.
I move in with the mostwonderful woman, who I call my
second mom.
She's this beautiful guy, anice woman named Roxanne, and I
met her on set for my very firstphoto shoot, for my very first
short track, ep.
You know, the day I met her Iknew immediately that she just
(13:01):
belonged in my life and she knewimmediately that I belonged in
her life and I ended up movingin with her and you know, she
became family to me.
She integrated me into herculture and her community, which
was completely unknown to me.
She came from a small littletown and there was very, very
little culture.
Now I'm hanging out with mostlyCaribbean's and it was such a
(13:24):
beautiful educational experienceof what the real world is like
and what it's like to spend timewith you know different
cultures and to learn aboutthose cultures.
And she really helped me in thelatter half of my developmental
years, you know.
So I kind of credit her tohelping raise me, you know, even
though I was an adult by then,because I was working and stuff,
(13:45):
she kind of helped raise me ina way, at least in that latter
half of you know mydevelopmental years Throughout
my 20s.
Basically what happened is Iserved.
I probably had about sevendifferent serving jobs over the
course of that decade, one ofthem being at a strip club where
I was a waitress, which wasjust a ride.
You know I don't recommendworking at a strip club for any
young starving artist out there.
(14:06):
It's not going to add to youroptimistic thinking.
I also worked as a fitnessinstructor for about 15 years
throughout you know, my 20s andearly 30s, and that involved
yoga, kickboxing because I was amartial artist growing up and
got my black belt so I was ableto teach kickboxing.
I taught mindset and meditationand all kinds of stuff in the
(14:30):
wellness industry.
I ended up working withprofessional athletes in the NHL
at one point in my career.
Like I really peaked in myfitness career as you know, a
fitness coach and did reallywell there.
And over the course of my 20syou know I had my music career,
that I was working on my fitnesscareer, that I was working on
waitressing on the side and youknow I was just trying to make
(14:52):
it all fly, but kind of in thebackground there was still this
unresolved trauma and mentalhealth conditions, kind of
running in the background, andeventually that caught up with
me.
Like eventually it got to thepoint where it just kind of
deteriorated my physical health,my mental health, my, I wasn't
(15:15):
able to really formrelationships very well.
I was, I buried myself in workbut I didn't really have a
community.
Other apart from you know,roxanne and her family became
very problematic, apart fromtrying to manage stage fright,
which I still had, make my musiccareer fly, deal with all of
the BS in the entertainment andmusic industry, teach fitness
(15:38):
full-time, which was, you know,just an injury waiting to happen
, waitress, like get my sleep.
Like between all of that andthe unresolved and untreated and
undiagnosed mental healthconditions, it just all kind of
caught up with me.
Daniela SM (15:50):
But do you think that also maybe I mean not to
bring it down what you werefeeling, but you were extremely
busy and so that didn't give youtime to be mindful, really even
that you were teaching that.
So isn't that maybe the maintrigger versus, you know,
dealing with your mentalcondition?
Janey Brown (16:08):
Yeah, I really feel like that's a.
It's a great point.
People often ask me like howdid you go so long having these
challenges without addressingthem Right?
And I think when you're insurvival mode which I was, you
know I was doing my best just tolive paycheck to paycheck for
many, many years and like whenyou're in that space, you don't
have time to think about likewhat's going on with you.
(16:29):
You don't have time to.
Even if I knew that I had trauma, I wouldn't, I wouldn't have
had time to deal with it.
You know what I mean.
So it wasn't even just like Ididn't have time, it's like I
wasn't.
As you said, I wasn't evenaware that there was a problem.
It wasn't until I was in thisreally, really meaningful
interpersonal relationship wherethe person didn't really have
(16:49):
the same experiences.
Me growing up, you know, mybehavior was reflected to me as
as being kind of toxic andproblematic, and it wasn't until
I was thought that I was goingto lose this person that I was
really forced to look at whatwas going on behind the scenes
and seek help for it.
Daniela SM (17:08):
But that's very mature of you, because most
people will just brush it offand say, no, I don't have any
issues, you're the problem andyou managed to actually, you
know, be intrinsic and lookinside you.
Janey Brown (17:18):
Well, I did that too.
I definitely blamed the peoplearound me or whatever that you
know, my boyfriends probably theboyfriends and girlfriends that
I had probably got it the worst.
Like they were the closest tome, they would know the most
about me and they would probablyget blamed the most.
So I did that too, you know, Iforgive myself.
(17:40):
It's all part of learning.
I'm very grateful that I wasable to, I guess, have enough
self awareness, to build moreself awareness and to do
psychoanalysis on myself and toapply the tools.
I think part of it is knowingthat you're capable, like you're
capable, of change and beingreally like really understanding
(18:01):
neuroplasticity and how thebrain can change.
I think part of knowing that isbelieving that you can change
and that provides self efficacyand you can get better and
better.
I mean I made a lot of mistakesbefore I was able to really get
on the other side of this thingfor sure.
How was the healing process?
It was a long one.
I actually started out in vocaltherapy because one of the first
(18:24):
things that happened when Istarted to like not be able to
keep up the pace I was going atand sort of not deal with my
problems One of the first thingsthat went was my voice.
I was in a contract at the time, a US recording contract with a
Grammy award winning producer.
To be honest, that contractwasn't really going well anyway,
like I think we would allultimately have always ended our
(18:47):
deal.
But one of the catalysts was,like my voice.
They discovered that I had thebeginning stages of vocal
nodules and if you keep doingwhat you're doing and don't
adjust how you speak and how youuse your voice, you can end up
with nodules and you have to getsurgery for that.
So in order for me to slow thisthing down, I had to stop
teaching, stop singing likecompletely text people that were
(19:11):
sitting beside me and I had tofully stop using my voice.
Yeah, it was hard, it wasreally hard.
Anybody really not talking, ohmy God.
I mean it was weird because insome senses it was actually kind
of liberating.
I felt unchained by all ofthese responsibilities that I
was actually, behind the scenes,quite afraid of failing at by
(19:33):
not being able to speak.
It kind of gave me time to restand reflect and sort of like
not have to be stressed aboutthat stuff all the time.
But the other side of that coinwas that I didn't know if I was
ever going to sing again.
Like there was a completeidentity shift in this.
At this time I was around 25,26, maybe complete identity
shift.
It was really, really, reallydevastating and challenging.
(19:54):
It's good now because it forcedme to start to think about well
, what else am I good at?
Before, this, music was all Iever wanted to do.
Serving was a utility for moneyand fitness coaching was a
utility for money and being ingood shape.
I loved doing it.
I'm summarizing it in a prettycrass way, but fitness was not
my first passion.
(20:14):
I loved doing it and I've madepeople happy and I loved that.
But I wanted to fulfill my musiccareer.
I was very, very attached tothat.
In like a survival way.
I was attached to it and thishelped me kind of detach a
little bit from the survivalaspect and show myself what else
I was capable of.
But anyway, all that to say is,when I lost my voice, I got
(20:37):
into speech pathology and vocaltherapy and in vocal therapy we
discovered me and the therapistdiscovered that I actually
didn't need vocal therapy, Ineeded real therapy, I needed
psychotherapy.
I was so resistant to it, likeshe was trying to say to me you
know, you've told me some thingsin here that are very traumatic
and I don't have the skills tohelp you with that.
(20:58):
I think you need to dopsychotherapy.
And I was resistant and shekind of kicked me out.
Like she just said I can't helpyou anymore.
You need to get help and Ican't do that.
That's when the healing journeybegan.
Daniela SM (21:10):
Okay, because you did say okay, she kicked me out,
I'm going to get help.
Janey Brown (21:14):
Well, I didn't.
I still didn't get help.
She kicked me out.
I was devastated because atthat point she was kind of my
only line of support andremember, like this is still the
days where it's really onlybeen in the last like seven
years where this huge mentalhealth movement has occurred and
ending the stigma, like goingto therapy, was still very
(21:34):
shameful as far as I wasconcerned.
Daniela SM (21:36):
It meant that I was weak to me at the time, jane,
and he's still not, so I feellike there's still a long way to
go, even though it is beentalked more.
Janey Brown (21:45):
I completely agree .
I mean, even today, I stillfeel stigma around myself.
Like I still find myselfjudging myself today.
So I completely agree, and I'vedone so much work on trying to
let go of judgment etc.
It's so easy for me to havecompassion for other people, but
when it comes to me, I stillhave a lot of judgment.
But yeah, I mean great, it's agreat point that you raised.
(22:06):
Like of course, it was stillthis untouchable action back
then.
If it still is today and it was, I resisted it with everything
I had.
And it wasn't until a coupleyears after that, when I was in
this relationship with someonewho I was deeply in love with,
he just basically said to melike you either need to go to
therapy or I'm leaving.
(22:28):
Ultimatums don't work with meand frankly, I don't actually
know that I believe inultimatums very much, but I will
say that this was the bestultimatum anyone could have ever
gave me.
I'm actually super grateful forit.
If he hadn't have done that, Idon't know if I would have
gotten into therapy as soon.
Like I was deeply afraid oflosing him and it was the
catalyst for me to start to heal.
(22:49):
So I mean, I'm so grateful forthat Wonderful Somebody who
loved you obviously.
Yeah.
Daniela SM (22:54):
And so then, what happened?
So you decided to get help.
Janey Brown (22:57):
Yeah, I decided to get help and man, like I
remember getting in there and itbeing so painful, like it was
just so painful the first fewyears even.
But it was painful coupled withrelief, I think even the first
session I had with her and Iknew right away that she was the
one and I'm very lucky becauseI know that some people
(23:19):
sometimes have to search.
Daniela SM (23:20):
Yes, not easy.
This is like dating you have tofind the right person too.
Janey Brown (23:24):
I know for sure, for sure, and that's something
that I encourage.
I'm actually going to do a postabout this very topic soon that
you know, the worst thing iswhen someone goes to they try
one therapy modality or onetherapist and it doesn't connect
, it's not a good fit and theythink, okay, I'm untreatable and
that's just a tragic outcome.
So I really encourage everyoneto try and to keep going.
(23:45):
It's a process and each step,each, let's say, like bad fit,
is one step closer to a good fit.
But I was lucky enough to havea good fit right away and I
remember in the session it wasreally, really painful for me to
cry in front of people.
I didn't do any of that.
I cried in the session and,like she just provided the
safety for me.
It was many, many years ofpsychoanalyzing my own
(24:08):
psychology, the psychodynamicwork, and in the beginning I
remember saying to her like howlong is this going to take, you
know?
And she just looked at me anddidn't answer, basically, and I
was like this is going to suck,like it really doesn't suck in
the session, when you trust thetherapist you're with, I really
feel that actually I lookedforward to therapy.
(24:29):
I looked forward to being ableto have the stage for my trauma,
for my pain, and just be ableto endlessly talk about what I
was processing without peoplecutting me off.
That's what therapy is Like.
You get this unsolicitedattention for an hour and a half
or whatever, which allows youto process and reflect, and then
you also get their reflectionas well, like their professional
(24:51):
reflection, and it's just theroom is filled with compassion
and respect and attention andattunement and probably all the
things that you didn't get inthe first place.
That led you to being in thereand you're a huge component of
psychoeducation so you learn somuch about yourself.
Did therapy for about six yearspretty diligently, like in the
(25:11):
beginning it was like four hoursa week, you know, two sessions
of two hours a week every week,and then it over time it tapered
down to one sort of two hoursession a week and then maybe
one hour and a half session aweek and then it just kind of
spread out over time and I'dmaybe pull back for a month.
So now I just kind of do it asneeded.
That was generally my therapyexperience and in addition to
(25:34):
that I did a couple of traumatrainings to really deeply
understand relational trauma andget educated on that so that I
can help better help my clients.
And I've also am finishing upmy psychology degree right now
Okay, but wait, wait, wait.
Daniela SM (25:47):
You never said what you were studying, because in
college you were studying acting.
Janey Brown (25:51):
Yeah, so musical theater performance was that one
year right after high school.
And then I dropped out andnever, ever thought I would ever
go back to school.
I never thought I would get myeducation, definitely didn't
think that I belonged inacademia or university, didn't
think I was capable of it at all.
In 2019, I decided to get mypsychology degree and I'm
finishing it this year, okayit's through all these
(26:12):
experiences that you had yousaid okay, I can help others.
Yeah, basically that was sort ofthrough my psychoeducation and
my own therapy, through mytrauma training and myself
reflection of my own trauma, Ithought the road looks pretty
clear in terms of wanting tohelp people.
From a mental health standpoint.
My dream is to help artists,because I was an artist and am
(26:35):
an artist.
I'm still making music.
You know.
I have all this wellnesseducation and now I have a
psychology degree and traumatrainings.
My goal has been always tomerge the two art and music and
mental health and that is why Icreated Fierce Academy, which I
can absolutely get into.
The goal is to merge the two,but right now I'm sort of just
generally putting out content.
(26:56):
I'm going to be releasing abook in the fall and that's
pretty much something that thepublic in general can find value
from.
Yes, we will come back to that.
Daniela SM (27:03):
I want to know did you lose the man that actually
encouraged you to go?
Janey Brown (27:07):
Yes, eventually we broke up.
It was for the betterultimately for both of us, and I
have great respect and love forthat man.
Still, every now and then I seehim.
I'll never stop loving him froma place of now almost family.
Daniela SM (27:20):
Yes, you know like sometimes we have people that
come to our life and contributeto something and a part of your
life.
Janey Brown (27:26):
Yeah, and so you left the exercise training, no
more coaching, no morerestaurant waiters yes, no, I
left being a waiter maybe 2014,2015, that kind of era and then
I left teaching the publicaround 2016,.
I was just focusing on trainingprofessional athletes.
At the time I was a mastertrainer of other coaches that
(27:48):
wanted to work with professionalathletes, so I was leading
these trainings for them and Iwas coaching professional
athletes, and after that Idecided to leave teaching
fitness and focus solely onproviding mindset coaching and
mental health mentorship.
I do suspect that when Igraduate from my bachelor's that
I will go on to do my mastersin clinical psych so that I
(28:11):
actually can counsel people as apsychotherapist, but that's a
bit of a future endeavor, Ithink.
For now, I think it's just goodthat I got my psych degree,
because I know that I'll be ableto better serve my community as
a coach, knowing what I knownow, having this degree.
Daniela SM (28:26):
When did you learn or decided that you wanted to be
a trainer in the fitness world?
Janey Brown (28:31):
That was when I first moved to Toronto.
So I was waitress saying, and Iwas a really an avid fitness
goer and I went to a bunch offitness classes and stuff and I
would get on to an instructorand I would go to that
instructor all the time and whatended up happening was the
instructor that saw me in herclass all the time basically
(28:51):
just offered me a job.
She was like, do you want tostart teaching here?
Because she was the manager ofall the a bunch of different
clubs and that's kind of how Igot into it.
I just kind of fell into it.
She asked if I wanted to teachand I started doing it and I was
really good at it.
There's always any fitnessinstructor out there.
At least in the era that I wasin I think it was, you know,
2005, six, seven any OG fitnessinstructor in our city would
(29:14):
know that there was always,always, always a need for subs,
because you as a fitness coachwould be really tired or you'd
want to go on vacation and youjust need support.
So there was just a plethora ofsubs and then you can kind of
get a regular spot, usually ifyou sub enough at a certain gym.
So that's kind of how thathappened and I loved doing it
and it taught me so much and I'mjust incredibly grateful for
(29:36):
that path.
Yeah good.
Daniela SM (29:37):
And then, when you lost your voice, you said that
you had to learn all the talentsthat you had.
But you already had othertalents.
You already were a fitnesstrainer, can do a job in the
restaurant and you were singing.
So what else do you learn?
All the talents that you had?
Janey Brown (29:52):
Yeah, it's a great question.
So I had to stop teachingfitness because that was very
vocal.
I had to stop singing becausethat was obviously very vocal
and it was about a year where Icompletely stopped.
And then, right at the end ofthat year, I started performing
again and started teaching again.
But during that time I took upa nutrition course.
I have a spiritual mentor beenpart of my life, all my life,
(30:14):
and he he was like you know,it's never too late to go back
to school.
He's always encouraged me to goback to school and I never
wanted to hear it and duringthat time I thought well, what
else am I going to do other thanwriting songs that I can't sing
?
So I took up this nutritioncourse, which was really, really
heavy in biochemistry, which Iknew nothing about, and I sort
of forced myself to go throughthat nutrition course and I
(30:37):
still haven't finished it tothis day, which is hilarious.
But I forced myself to learnthe material and it caused me to
just start to explore what lifewould look like outside of
performance, outside of teachingfitness.
It was more about just thisnewfound discovery of my
capabilities as a student inthis nutrition course.
Daniela SM (30:56):
The one you decided to study psychology, so that
would have been about four orfive years later.
Janey Brown (31:01):
2017 was like this huge crisis year Broke up with.
That relationship had nowhereto live, found out.
I had a tumor in my pelvis andwas launching my new company,
fierce Academy, for the firsttime all in the same week.
So in that week, just my lifeblew up, basically, and that
took me quite a bit to recoverfrom.
(31:22):
It was about a year after thatthat I landed this really,
really amazing contract withsomeone who wanted to take my
Fierce Academy programming,which was a blend of mental
health tools and meditation andpsycho education and you know,
it was like a course basically,that allowed people to face
(31:43):
their fears.
So he wanted to take thisprogramming and he wanted to
develop his company with it.
And it was just this massivecontract where I was paid very
well and I got to coach and domy art and all of that.
So this is an amazing year.
And then that contract endedright before COVID.
I was sort of lost again.
I mean, you'll know that,talking to any artist, there is
(32:05):
this common experience whereyou're sort of reinventing
yourself.
It's like mini deaths.
You'll land a contract oryou'll get a gig, and it's this
amazing experience and you feelsuccessful and you make your
money, and then it's like itstops and then it's like what's
next?
That has been the pattern of mylife, and this contract was the
epitome of that.
It was like the best experienceI've had as an artist and as a
(32:28):
coach thus far.
And then the deal just ended.
I didn't feel like I couldsustain the ups and downs of
this industry anymore.
I didn't feel like I had theresilience I needed.
I felt trapped again.
I felt like, well, I don't haveany formal education, so if I
don't want to teach fitnessanymore and I'm not making
(32:49):
enough money with my music, whatam I going to do?
I was encouraged by thisspiritual mentor to go into
university and I just thoughtyou know what I can't handle
this guy telling me to go backto school anymore.
I'm just going to do it.
You know like I'll do it, andjust kind of say there, you know
, are you happy?
And, daniela, I really didn'twant to go.
I was totally not convincedthat I was going to do well at
(33:14):
all.
I was scared.
It felt too big for me.
It felt like I was giving up oneverything I had worked for.
I was devastated.
That which is hilarious,because now I look at it like,
okay, I got to go to university,I had that privilege, right,
but I was devastated because Ifelt like I had failed and then
I just kept pushing through.
(33:34):
I couldn't be more gratefulthat I chose to do that.
Daniela SM (33:37):
But so you are full at university or you are
working as well.
Janey Brown (33:41):
I'm working as well, so I did the degree part
time over the last four years.
Yeah, every step of the way wasvery, very challenging, but now
I am very grateful.
Daniela SM (33:52):
Okay, and so, in the fear of the anatomy, how did
you came up with that idea?
Janey Brown (33:56):
In 2016,.
I had this idea, that thoughtwhat if I take all of my
wellness education andeverything I know about the
nervous system and breath andall of my coaching education?
And what if I create a coachingprogram for artists to help
them overcome stage fright?
Because one of the things thatI went into therapy for was this
really high level of stagefright that I was still dealing
(34:19):
with behind the scenes.
I worked on this online programfor about a year.
The reason I chose the nameFEARCE Academy the way I spell
it is F E A R C E is because Inmy research and in my learning,
I realized that the only way tomanage fear is to integrate it
into your human experience.
(34:39):
It's not to become fearless,it's not to override the fear.
That will only make you moreafraid or it'll only lead to
problems down the line.
The only way you can deal withfear effectively is to expose
yourself to it and and in agrade the fear and learn how to
turn it into fuel.
Now, obviously, context matters, and so fears F-E-A-R-C-E is a
(35:00):
demonstration of the interplayof the word itself is a
combination of fear and fears.
You need your fear to be fears.
Yeah, that's clever.
Daniela SM (35:09):
I like it, thank you.
And so now you're still writingsongs, yes, are you singing?
Yes, and do you have yourdegree?
Tell me more.
What else are you doing in thefuture?
Now?
Janey Brown (35:19):
One day, I hope, to release a full album.
I actually just released a songcalled Thank you for Loving Me.
You know that's going to besomething that I continue is
just to release art in pieces,the way that I can right now,
the way that I have the capacityand the finances to do so.
One day I will achieve a fulllength album, so I am writing
songs in anticipation for thatone day.
I will be releasing a book thisfall.
(35:42):
That book is essentially all ofthe material that my signature
coaching program is called Fearto Fierce and the book will also
be titled that and it basicallyhas taken the information,
compiled it into a book so thatif people don't want to do a
course, they can read a bookinstead.
I'm pushing really hard with mymanager, jason Pepper, right now
to get more speakingengagements and do more public
(36:04):
speaking.
So I think once I graduate atthe end of the fall, we're going
to really ramp up that side ofthe business of Fierce Academy.
Those are the things that sortof on deck right now slowly but
surely, more music and stillgoing to therapy, right, and
still going to therapy here andthere, for sure, yep.
Daniela SM (36:24):
You said that you were lost two times in the story
.
Yeah, we were lost twice.
Janey Brown (36:29):
Well, I was lost a lot, but I was like, yes,
really lost those two times.
Yes, the main ones.
Daniela SM (36:34):
Now I wonder if this will happen to you again,
something similar.
Would you handle it now, withyour wisdom and all your
training, in a different way?
Janey Brown (36:43):
Yeah, I mean.
I mean absolutely.
I don't.
I don't even see how I coulddeny that.
You know, when you're adifferent person and we all are
you have no choice but to handleit differently.
In a way, I'd like to believethat I wouldn't get as lost.
I know that I'm going to gothrough ups and downs.
Just walking this path as anartist in general is a ride.
(37:05):
It's its own mental illnessbeing an artist and an
entrepreneur like saying thattongue in cheek, but I kind of
mean it.
It's a lot of ups and downs,it's a lot of self doubt.
It's a lot of the same symptomsthat you experience with with a
mental health condition.
But every time I go throughthese challenges I do find
better ways to cope with it.
(37:26):
I'm not going to be perfect andI know that there's some things
down the pipeline that aregoing to rock my world.
I'm hoping that all thestrength and resilience that
I've built up will allow me tocope with it in a better way
than I've been able to in thepast.
Daniela SM (37:41):
I do believe, and thank you for answering that
question.
I do believe that we are justno titles, no jobs, no nothing
around us but our soul.
If everything is taken away,who are you?
And of course I'm not sayingsomething really bad happens,
that I will not struggle to, butat least you don't get attached
to the things that you're notsupposed to.
Janey Brown (38:03):
That is so powerful, my God.
You just put into wordssomething that was such a
prevalent experience as anartist that if you can use those
mini deaths, let's say, as anopportunity to get to know
yourself at the core, deeper anddeeper, without these titles,
without these passions, as anopportunity to remind yourself
(38:24):
who you are, it will eliminatesuffering.
I think that's completely trueand I think it's actually
probably the reason that I didsuffer for so long, because I
didn't want to let go of thatidentity to reducing, if not
eliminating, suffering, and Ididn't get that for a really
long time.
Daniela SM (38:41):
Yes, I mean it's not easy, right?
Because we're still in a worldwhere you have to work and you
have to survive and everythingis busy, busy.
So but at least if you're aware, then you know, at least next
time something happens you willhave the tools one more tool in
your box.
Janey Brown (38:56):
Yeah, absolutely, I completely agree.
Yeah, it's, and that's apowerful tool.
That's that's like the megatool.
Daniela SM (39:02):
Yes, so, Janey, thank you so much for being here
.
We will add in the show noteshow people can read you and also
your new song, awesome.
I would love that.
It was a pleasure.
I really enjoyed my pleasure.
I appreciate you being so opento sharing your story.
Janey Brown (39:20):
Oh, it's my absolute pleasure.
Thank you for asking amazingquestions and for letting me
share.
Thanks, thanks.
Daniela SM (39:25):
I hope you enjoyed today's episode I am Daniela and
you were listening to, becauseeveryone has a story.
Please take five seconds rightnow and think of somebody in
your life that may enjoy whatyou just heard, or someone that
has a story to be shared andpreserved.
When you think of that person,shoot them a text with the link
of this podcast.
(39:45):
This would allow the ordinarymagic to go further.
Join me next time for anotherstory conversation.
Thank you for listening.
Hasta pronto.
Hi, I'm Daniela.
Welcome to my podcast, becauseeveryone has a story, the place
to give ordinary people, stories, the chance to be shared and
preserved.
Our stories become the languageof connections.
Let's enjoy it, connect andrelate, because everyone has a
story.
Welcome my guest, jane Brown.
(00:33):
Jane is a trauma coach, aprofessional singer and a
keynote speaker, as well as shestudies psychology and plans to
publish her first book in 2023.
It was lovely to meet her.
We had a wonderful conversation.
She is a very sweet andintrospective woman who has
(00:54):
learned a lot and grownimmensely, and you will never
stop for her.
She dives deep into thepowerful world of mental health
that has impacted her throughher performing music and dancing
.
I find this is a compellingexploration of the symbiotic
relationship between music, artand mental health and how Jane
(01:17):
turned her challenges intoopportunities for growth and
healing, a journey that willcontinue.
Let's enjoy her story.
Welcome, Janey, to the podcast.
I am very excited and gratefulthat you're here.
I'm grateful too.
Yes, yes, jane, tell me why doyou want to share a story?
Janey Brown (01:35):
I believe that I was put on earth to help people.
Pretty plain and simple, Ithink.
By sharing some of the thingsI've learned at least I hope
that maybe prevent people fromthe same suffering that I had
the learnings from the suffering, or the learnings- from the
achievements.
Daniela SM (01:52):
Yes, thank you for sharing a story because, as I
tell everyone, it's so importantthat you share and then, even
if nothing super bad hashappened, even just your life is
something that nobody can takeaway.
It's your story and we shouldalways share it, thank you.
Thanks for asking.
Yes, jane, when does your storystart?
(02:13):
I?
Janey Brown (02:14):
suppose it starts September 2nd 1986, which is
when I was born.
But I think the one that we'llfocus on today is more centered
around music and mental health,and my music journey publicly
began when I was 10 years oldand I stepped onto my first
public stage.
When I first started performingI was fearless, in every sense
(02:35):
of the word.
I literally had no fear, andfear is learned, so that kind of
makes sense.
I hadn't really gone throughthe hardship of what it meant to
be a performer full-time andprofessionally.
I wasn't exposed yet at thattime to the harshness of the
entertainment industry, so I wasfearless.
Around 14, 15, I got into highschool and that's when all of
the insecurities start foreverybody and that's when sort
(02:57):
of the mental health strugglesreally started to poke their
head above the surface.
So that's the beginning of bothmy music career and probably
the mental health battles isbetween age 10 and 15.
Daniela SM (03:10):
It is interesting that you said that you have no
fears at age 10, because usuallypeople you know kids are not
fearless at five, six days,start losing that and so.
So how is it that you managedto be for so long fearless?
Janey Brown (03:26):
Well, I'd argue that I did have fear in other
things.
When I was a kid, like Iremember, my first sort of
exposure to performance wasthrough dance, actually, and
gymnastics.
I remember being very afraid,both for dance competitions and
for gymnastics competitions,between you know, maybe ages
five to nine.
And then when I, when I gotinto musical theater performance
(03:49):
because that was the firstpublic stage connected to a
production, obviously Iperformed in gymnastics
competitions and stuff publicly,but my first production that I
was in was age 10.
And I think it's because fearhadn't been learned in that
domain, like fear is a learnedfeeling and experience, and I
hadn't learned to be afraid inthat domain.
But it came quite quickly after, like it was only like four
(04:12):
years where I don't recallexperiencing any fearful sort of
episodes.
It wasn't until beginning ofhigh school where I, you know,
began to really really getafraid and insecure, but I still
kept going, which that is awhole other story.
Daniela SM (04:28):
What happened that you started to feel secure?
Janey Brown (04:30):
Yeah, I mean, I guess I can.
I can describe it by way offeeling.
I remember being under thespotlight, let's say prior to
high school, and it was just.
It was this feeling of freedom,it was this feeling of being
empowered and impervious.
When I entered into high school, the feeling became being
trapped, being more like therewas more feelings of sadness and
(04:55):
pain, being confined or trappedand sort of having to force
myself to do it, rather thanjust this thing that I was
intrinsically inspired to do.
At the time of experiencing thatshift, I didn't know that
that's what I was experiencing.
It was I kind of just overwroteit and people would say, you
know, like that's, that's what aperformer experience is.
(05:16):
It's like everyone is afraid asa performer and it's just part
of the, the career.
I didn't learn until much, muchlater that actually what I was
experiencing was performanceanxiety and that that
performance anxiety was drivenby an undiagnosed mental health
condition or conditions thatthat were creating a traumatic
(05:38):
experience for me.
So it's it's complicated inthat at the time I knew that I
felt different.
I just didn't know what to callit and people were invalidating
the experience because theywere saying, like it's normal to
get butterflies.
What I didn't realize is that Iwasn't just experiencing
butterflies.
I was experiencing tiny vampirebats with machetes, and there's
(06:01):
a difference.
There's a difference betweenbutterflies and sort of this
healthy stress and tiny vampirebats with machetes and unhealthy
stress.
And that unhealthy stress waswhat I was experiencing and that
grew over time until I couldn'treally go on.
Daniela SM (06:17):
Well, the thing is, people didn't validate it
because they couldn't feel thatyou had machetes vampires versus
butterflies.
Yeah, you mentioned mentalhealth conditions, where you had
these mental issues, or theycame because of the situation.
Janey Brown (06:31):
I'll definitely sort of unpack that a bit,
because I think it's worthunpacking.
I just want to validate whatyou just said, which was they
couldn't have validated myexperience because they didn't
know it and there wasn'tlanguage for it.
Back then, like, mental healthwasn't a topic publicly and in
fact there was a much biggerstigma around it and that stigma
kept it to be a very shamefulsubject.
(06:52):
People didn't want to talkabout fear.
They didn't see that as just afundamental part of the human
experience.
They saw it as a weakness,especially in the performance
industry.
So it wasn't really a topicthat you could open up about and
get help, for Fear is normal,but I had anxiety, which those
are two different things.
Yeah, there's wasn't languagefor it.
We didn't have the educationthat we have now.
(07:13):
We didn't have the managementof the stigma, you're right, and
I couldn't have been helpedbecause it wasn't available.
Okay, so with mental healthconditions that are diagnosable,
it's always a combination ofnature versus nurture.
So the age old debate inpsychology is is the way that we
are a by product of our natureor is the way that we are a
(07:36):
byproduct of being nurtured acertain way by our environment?
And the answer that at leastI've been coming to over and
over again with you know, myresearch is that it's both, and
most, if not all, people thatare educated in psychology would
say the same thing.
It's not just one or the other.
I was predisposed to mentalhealth conditions because of
(07:56):
some history in my family andbecause of some genes that I
likely carry, and it was myenvironment over time that
cultivated an inability tomanage my mental health and, by
way of what you know,psychologists would call mental
health conditions.
It was sort of an interplaybetween having pretty
problematic mental healthchallenges behind the scenes and
(08:19):
this consistent exposure tofear and insecurity on stage and
zero management around that.
So it was kind of coming fromboth ends.
It was the stage fright and theanxiety around that and the
lack of coping mechanisms andthis mental health condition
that was developing behind thescenes that was contributing to
(08:43):
the problem.
Daniela SM (08:43):
Well, thank you for explaining that.
That's really interesting.
Yeah, I agree.
Yes, yes.
And then what happened?
So you entered high school andyou had no knowledge of what was
.
You were just feeling, but youdidn't know what was going on.
Yeah, exactly.
Janey Brown (08:57):
So when I entered high school and at a certain
point in high school I think itwas around age 15, I just
started to really not be able tomanage my experience.
I got into drugs and alcoholand I started to pull away from
performing.
I always did performing.
I've performed every year of mylife.
(09:17):
Actually, for the last 26 yearsin one way or another I've been
on stage.
So I never stopped fully, but Iremember like self sabotaging
and I would slink back into sortof like background character
roles and I skipped school and Ijust had all of these unhealthy
coping mechanisms.
I was a pothead and I wasfailing and I was escaping, I
(09:38):
was acting out a lot.
I can't really explain kind ofwhat turned me around in those
years.
There were some traumatic eventsthat happened in those years
and I think that thatcontributed to again the
compilation of everything thedrugs, the need to sort of pull
back from performing a littlebit, the inability to manage my
(09:59):
mental health.
I think those were connected tosome traumatic experiences that
I had at that time.
By the grace of God, I rememberin the latter half of my 16th
year I just realized I was nevergoing to get out of the small
town that I was born in.
If I continued to do this and Ijust I remember just quitting
Cold Turkey I just I stopped andI got focused again and I got
(10:21):
back on track and I started toreally apply myself and that
sort of carried me out of myhigh school years and into my
20s, which are a whole other bagof ups and downs and mistakes
and unhealthy coping mechanismsand lack of managing this mental
health condition properly.
(10:41):
I still didn't know that I hadhad trauma in my life and I
still didn't know that I hadreally problematic mental health
challenges until like my 30sand during your high school
years.
Daniela SM (10:53):
How were your parents helping you?
Janey Brown (10:56):
My parents and I love each other to death.
I know for sure that that'salways something that I can
carry in my heart.
In my high school years therewas trouble at home.
It was very hard at home andthey know that and we've we've
really done a lot of healingtogether.
I think they did the best theycould to support me in the best
way they knew how, but familylife what it was, adding to the
(11:17):
problem essentially,unfortunately, and so, and you
were living in a small town atthe time, and then you decided
that you finish high school andleave, yeah, so actually, when I
finished high school Iauditioned for a bunch of
different musical theaterperformance universities.
Maybe I only auditioned for one,I can't remember, but I didn't
get into the one that I wantedand there was a new program
(11:39):
opening up in my small town andso I went there for one year and
at the end of that year I gotmy first touring professional
show and I hated it.
Like it was cool to experiencethat, but I was really really
over musical theater performanceand so I kind of associated
that with my childhood and itwas kind of a very young you
(11:59):
know, even though there's manyadult musical theater
performance shows, just thestyle of performing for me
wasn't what I was passionateabout anymore.
So I actually dropped out ofcollege and I moved.
This was around 18 years old.
I moved out at 17 and at 18, Imoved to the city of Toronto,
which is, you know, a massivecity in Canada, you know, moved
(12:22):
in with a roommate and that wasthe beginning of my working life
as a professional and the endof my small town life,
essentially.
Daniela SM (12:30):
So we talk about your childhood and your high
school.
You want to go now on your 20s?
Yeah, absolutely, from decadeto decade.
Janey Brown (12:38):
Yeah, exactly yeah .
Luckily there's not many moredecades to go.
So I moved to Toronto.
I move in with the mostwonderful woman, who I call my
second mom.
She's this beautiful guy, anice woman named Roxanne, and I
met her on set for my very firstphoto shoot, for my very first
short track, ep.
You know, the day I met her Iknew immediately that she just
(13:01):
belonged in my life and she knewimmediately that I belonged in
her life and I ended up movingin with her and you know, she
became family to me.
She integrated me into herculture and her community, which
was completely unknown to me.
She came from a small littletown and there was very, very
little culture.
Now I'm hanging out with mostlyCaribbean's and it was such a
(13:24):
beautiful educational experienceof what the real world is like
and what it's like to spend timewith you know different
cultures and to learn aboutthose cultures.
And she really helped me in thelatter half of my developmental
years, you know.
So I kind of credit her tohelping raise me, you know, even
though I was an adult by then,because I was working and stuff,
(13:45):
she kind of helped raise me ina way, at least in that latter
half of you know mydevelopmental years Throughout
my 20s.
Basically what happened is Iserved.
I probably had about sevendifferent serving jobs over the
course of that decade, one ofthem being at a strip club where
I was a waitress, which wasjust a ride.
You know I don't recommendworking at a strip club for any
young starving artist out there.
(14:06):
It's not going to add to youroptimistic thinking.
I also worked as a fitnessinstructor for about 15 years
throughout you know, my 20s andearly 30s, and that involved
yoga, kickboxing because I was amartial artist growing up and
got my black belt so I was ableto teach kickboxing.
I taught mindset and meditationand all kinds of stuff in the
(14:30):
wellness industry.
I ended up working withprofessional athletes in the NHL
at one point in my career.
Like I really peaked in myfitness career as you know, a
fitness coach and did reallywell there.
And over the course of my 20syou know I had my music career,
that I was working on my fitnesscareer, that I was working on
waitressing on the side and youknow I was just trying to make
(14:52):
it all fly, but kind of in thebackground there was still this
unresolved trauma and mentalhealth conditions, kind of
running in the background, andeventually that caught up with
me.
Like eventually it got to thepoint where it just kind of
deteriorated my physical health,my mental health, my, I wasn't
(15:15):
able to really formrelationships very well.
I was, I buried myself in workbut I didn't really have a
community.
Other apart from you know,roxanne and her family became
very problematic, apart fromtrying to manage stage fright,
which I still had, make my musiccareer fly, deal with all of
the BS in the entertainment andmusic industry, teach fitness
(15:38):
full-time, which was, you know,just an injury waiting to happen
, waitress, like get my sleep.
Like between all of that andthe unresolved and untreated and
undiagnosed mental healthconditions, it just all kind of
caught up with me.
Daniela SM (15:50):
But do you think that also maybe I mean not to
bring it down what you werefeeling, but you were extremely
busy and so that didn't give youtime to be mindful, really even
that you were teaching that.
So isn't that maybe the maintrigger versus, you know,
dealing with your mentalcondition?
Janey Brown (16:08):
Yeah, I really feel like that's a.
It's a great point.
People often ask me like howdid you go so long having these
challenges without addressingthem Right?
And I think when you're insurvival mode which I was, you
know I was doing my best just tolive paycheck to paycheck for
many, many years and like whenyou're in that space, you don't
have time to think about likewhat's going on with you.
(16:29):
You don't have time to.
Even if I knew that I had trauma, I wouldn't, I wouldn't have
had time to deal with it.
You know what I mean.
So it wasn't even just like Ididn't have time, it's like I
wasn't.
As you said, I wasn't evenaware that there was a problem.
It wasn't until I was in thisreally, really meaningful
interpersonal relationship wherethe person didn't really have
(16:49):
the same experiences.
Me growing up, you know, mybehavior was reflected to me as
as being kind of toxic andproblematic, and it wasn't until
I was thought that I was goingto lose this person that I was
really forced to look at whatwas going on behind the scenes
and seek help for it.
Daniela SM (17:08):
But that's very mature of you, because most
people will just brush it offand say, no, I don't have any
issues, you're the problem andyou managed to actually, you
know, be intrinsic and lookinside you.
Janey Brown (17:18):
Well, I did that too.
I definitely blamed the peoplearound me or whatever that you
know, my boyfriends probably theboyfriends and girlfriends that
I had probably got it the worst.
Like they were the closest tome, they would know the most
about me and they would probablyget blamed the most.
So I did that too, you know, Iforgive myself.
(17:40):
It's all part of learning.
I'm very grateful that I wasable to, I guess, have enough
self awareness, to build moreself awareness and to do
psychoanalysis on myself and toapply the tools.
I think part of it is knowingthat you're capable, like you're
capable, of change and beingreally like really understanding
(18:01):
neuroplasticity and how thebrain can change.
I think part of knowing that isbelieving that you can change
and that provides self efficacyand you can get better and
better.
I mean I made a lot of mistakesbefore I was able to really get
on the other side of this thingfor sure.
How was the healing process?
It was a long one.
I actually started out in vocaltherapy because one of the first
(18:24):
things that happened when Istarted to like not be able to
keep up the pace I was going atand sort of not deal with my
problems One of the first thingsthat went was my voice.
I was in a contract at the time, a US recording contract with a
Grammy award winning producer.
To be honest, that contractwasn't really going well anyway,
like I think we would allultimately have always ended our
(18:47):
deal.
But one of the catalysts was,like my voice.
They discovered that I had thebeginning stages of vocal
nodules and if you keep doingwhat you're doing and don't
adjust how you speak and how youuse your voice, you can end up
with nodules and you have to getsurgery for that.
So in order for me to slow thisthing down, I had to stop
teaching, stop singing likecompletely text people that were
(19:11):
sitting beside me and I had tofully stop using my voice.
Yeah, it was hard, it wasreally hard.
Anybody really not talking, ohmy God.
I mean it was weird because insome senses it was actually kind
of liberating.
I felt unchained by all ofthese responsibilities that I
was actually, behind the scenes,quite afraid of failing at by
(19:33):
not being able to speak.
It kind of gave me time to restand reflect and sort of like
not have to be stressed aboutthat stuff all the time.
But the other side of that coinwas that I didn't know if I was
ever going to sing again.
Like there was a completeidentity shift in this.
At this time I was around 25,26, maybe complete identity
shift.
It was really, really, reallydevastating and challenging.
(19:54):
It's good now because it forcedme to start to think about well
, what else am I good at?
Before, this, music was all Iever wanted to do.
Serving was a utility for moneyand fitness coaching was a
utility for money and being ingood shape.
I loved doing it.
I'm summarizing it in a prettycrass way, but fitness was not
my first passion.
(20:14):
I loved doing it and I've madepeople happy and I loved that.
But I wanted to fulfill my musiccareer.
I was very, very attached tothat.
In like a survival way.
I was attached to it and thishelped me kind of detach a
little bit from the survivalaspect and show myself what else
I was capable of.
But anyway, all that to say is,when I lost my voice, I got
(20:37):
into speech pathology and vocaltherapy and in vocal therapy we
discovered me and the therapistdiscovered that I actually
didn't need vocal therapy, Ineeded real therapy, I needed
psychotherapy.
I was so resistant to it, likeshe was trying to say to me you
know, you've told me some thingsin here that are very traumatic
and I don't have the skills tohelp you with that.
(20:58):
I think you need to dopsychotherapy.
And I was resistant and shekind of kicked me out.
Like she just said I can't helpyou anymore.
You need to get help and Ican't do that.
That's when the healing journeybegan.
Daniela SM (21:10):
Okay, because you did say okay, she kicked me out,
I'm going to get help.
Janey Brown (21:14):
Well, I didn't.
I still didn't get help.
She kicked me out.
I was devastated because atthat point she was kind of my
only line of support andremember, like this is still the
days where it's really onlybeen in the last like seven
years where this huge mentalhealth movement has occurred and
ending the stigma, like goingto therapy, was still very
(21:34):
shameful as far as I wasconcerned.
Daniela SM (21:36):
It meant that I was weak to me at the time, jane,
and he's still not, so I feellike there's still a long way to
go, even though it is beentalked more.
Janey Brown (21:45):
I completely agree .
I mean, even today, I stillfeel stigma around myself.
Like I still find myselfjudging myself today.
So I completely agree, and I'vedone so much work on trying to
let go of judgment etc.
It's so easy for me to havecompassion for other people, but
when it comes to me, I stillhave a lot of judgment.
But yeah, I mean great, it's agreat point that you raised.
(22:06):
Like of course, it was stillthis untouchable action back
then.
If it still is today and it was, I resisted it with everything
I had.
And it wasn't until a coupleyears after that, when I was in
this relationship with someonewho I was deeply in love with,
he just basically said to melike you either need to go to
therapy or I'm leaving.
(22:28):
Ultimatums don't work with meand frankly, I don't actually
know that I believe inultimatums very much, but I will
say that this was the bestultimatum anyone could have ever
gave me.
I'm actually super grateful forit.
If he hadn't have done that, Idon't know if I would have
gotten into therapy as soon.
Like I was deeply afraid oflosing him and it was the
catalyst for me to start to heal.
(22:49):
So I mean, I'm so grateful forthat Wonderful Somebody who
loved you obviously.
Yeah.
Daniela SM (22:54):
And so then, what happened?
So you decided to get help.
Janey Brown (22:57):
Yeah, I decided to get help and man, like I
remember getting in there and itbeing so painful, like it was
just so painful the first fewyears even.
But it was painful coupled withrelief, I think even the first
session I had with her and Iknew right away that she was the
one and I'm very lucky becauseI know that some people
(23:19):
sometimes have to search.
Daniela SM (23:20):
Yes, not easy.
This is like dating you have tofind the right person too.
Janey Brown (23:24):
I know for sure, for sure, and that's something
that I encourage.
I'm actually going to do a postabout this very topic soon that
you know, the worst thing iswhen someone goes to they try
one therapy modality or onetherapist and it doesn't connect
, it's not a good fit and theythink, okay, I'm untreatable and
that's just a tragic outcome.
So I really encourage everyoneto try and to keep going.
(23:45):
It's a process and each step,each, let's say, like bad fit,
is one step closer to a good fit.
But I was lucky enough to havea good fit right away and I
remember in the session it wasreally, really painful for me to
cry in front of people.
I didn't do any of that.
I cried in the session and,like she just provided the
safety for me.
It was many, many years ofpsychoanalyzing my own
(24:08):
psychology, the psychodynamicwork, and in the beginning I
remember saying to her like howlong is this going to take, you
know?
And she just looked at me anddidn't answer, basically, and I
was like this is going to suck,like it really doesn't suck in
the session, when you trust thetherapist you're with, I really
feel that actually I lookedforward to therapy.
(24:29):
I looked forward to being ableto have the stage for my trauma,
for my pain, and just be ableto endlessly talk about what I
was processing without peoplecutting me off.
That's what therapy is Like.
You get this unsolicitedattention for an hour and a half
or whatever, which allows youto process and reflect, and then
you also get their reflectionas well, like their professional
(24:51):
reflection, and it's just theroom is filled with compassion
and respect and attention andattunement and probably all the
things that you didn't get inthe first place.
That led you to being in thereand you're a huge component of
psychoeducation so you learn somuch about yourself.
Did therapy for about six yearspretty diligently, like in the
(25:11):
beginning it was like four hoursa week, you know, two sessions
of two hours a week every week,and then it over time it tapered
down to one sort of two hoursession a week and then maybe
one hour and a half session aweek and then it just kind of
spread out over time and I'dmaybe pull back for a month.
So now I just kind of do it asneeded.
That was generally my therapyexperience and in addition to
(25:34):
that I did a couple of traumatrainings to really deeply
understand relational trauma andget educated on that so that I
can help better help my clients.
And I've also am finishing upmy psychology degree right now
Okay, but wait, wait, wait.
Daniela SM (25:47):
You never said what you were studying, because in
college you were studying acting.
Janey Brown (25:51):
Yeah, so musical theater performance was that one
year right after high school.
And then I dropped out andnever, ever thought I would ever
go back to school.
I never thought I would get myeducation, definitely didn't
think that I belonged inacademia or university, didn't
think I was capable of it at all.
In 2019, I decided to get mypsychology degree and I'm
finishing it this year, okayit's through all these
(26:12):
experiences that you had yousaid okay, I can help others.
Yeah, basically that was sort ofthrough my psychoeducation and
my own therapy, through mytrauma training and myself
reflection of my own trauma, Ithought the road looks pretty
clear in terms of wanting tohelp people.
From a mental health standpoint.
My dream is to help artists,because I was an artist and am
(26:35):
an artist.
I'm still making music.
You know.
I have all this wellnesseducation and now I have a
psychology degree and traumatrainings.
My goal has been always tomerge the two art and music and
mental health and that is why Icreated Fierce Academy, which I
can absolutely get into.
The goal is to merge the two,but right now I'm sort of just
generally putting out content.
(26:56):
I'm going to be releasing abook in the fall and that's
pretty much something that thepublic in general can find value
from.
Yes, we will come back to that.
Daniela SM (27:03):
I want to know did you lose the man that actually
encouraged you to go?
Janey Brown (27:07):
Yes, eventually we broke up.
It was for the betterultimately for both of us, and I
have great respect and love forthat man.
Still, every now and then I seehim.
I'll never stop loving him froma place of now almost family.
Daniela SM (27:20):
Yes, you know like sometimes we have people that
come to our life and contributeto something and a part of your
life.
Janey Brown (27:26):
Yeah, and so you left the exercise training, no
more coaching, no morerestaurant waiters yes, no, I
left being a waiter maybe 2014,2015, that kind of era and then
I left teaching the publicaround 2016,.
I was just focusing on trainingprofessional athletes.
At the time I was a mastertrainer of other coaches that
(27:48):
wanted to work with professionalathletes, so I was leading
these trainings for them and Iwas coaching professional
athletes, and after that Idecided to leave teaching
fitness and focus solely onproviding mindset coaching and
mental health mentorship.
I do suspect that when Igraduate from my bachelor's that
I will go on to do my mastersin clinical psych so that I
(28:11):
actually can counsel people as apsychotherapist, but that's a
bit of a future endeavor, Ithink.
For now, I think it's just goodthat I got my psych degree,
because I know that I'll be ableto better serve my community as
a coach, knowing what I knownow, having this degree.
Daniela SM (28:26):
When did you learn or decided that you wanted to be
a trainer in the fitness world?
Janey Brown (28:31):
That was when I first moved to Toronto.
So I was waitress saying, and Iwas a really an avid fitness
goer and I went to a bunch offitness classes and stuff and I
would get on to an instructorand I would go to that
instructor all the time and whatended up happening was the
instructor that saw me in herclass all the time basically
(28:51):
just offered me a job.
She was like, do you want tostart teaching here?
Because she was the manager ofall the a bunch of different
clubs and that's kind of how Igot into it.
I just kind of fell into it.
She asked if I wanted to teachand I started doing it and I was
really good at it.
There's always any fitnessinstructor out there.
At least in the era that I wasin I think it was, you know,
2005, six, seven any OG fitnessinstructor in our city would
(29:14):
know that there was always,always, always a need for subs,
because you as a fitness coachwould be really tired or you'd
want to go on vacation and youjust need support.
So there was just a plethora ofsubs and then you can kind of
get a regular spot, usually ifyou sub enough at a certain gym.
So that's kind of how thathappened and I loved doing it
and it taught me so much and I'mjust incredibly grateful for
(29:36):
that path.
Yeah good.
Daniela SM (29:37):
And then, when you lost your voice, you said that
you had to learn all the talentsthat you had.
But you already had othertalents.
You already were a fitnesstrainer, can do a job in the
restaurant and you were singing.
So what else do you learn?
All the talents that you had?
Janey Brown (29:52):
Yeah, it's a great question.
So I had to stop teachingfitness because that was very
vocal.
I had to stop singing becausethat was obviously very vocal
and it was about a year where Icompletely stopped.
And then, right at the end ofthat year, I started performing
again and started teaching again.
But during that time I took upa nutrition course.
I have a spiritual mentor beenpart of my life, all my life,
(30:14):
and he he was like you know,it's never too late to go back
to school.
He's always encouraged me to goback to school and I never
wanted to hear it and duringthat time I thought well, what
else am I going to do other thanwriting songs that I can't sing
?
So I took up this nutritioncourse, which was really, really
heavy in biochemistry, which Iknew nothing about, and I sort
of forced myself to go throughthat nutrition course and I
(30:37):
still haven't finished it tothis day, which is hilarious.
But I forced myself to learnthe material and it caused me to
just start to explore what lifewould look like outside of
performance, outside of teachingfitness.
It was more about just thisnewfound discovery of my
capabilities as a student inthis nutrition course.
Daniela SM (30:56):
The one you decided to study psychology, so that
would have been about four orfive years later.
Janey Brown (31:01):
2017 was like this huge crisis year Broke up with.
That relationship had nowhereto live, found out.
I had a tumor in my pelvis andwas launching my new company,
fierce Academy, for the firsttime all in the same week.
So in that week, just my lifeblew up, basically, and that
took me quite a bit to recoverfrom.
(31:22):
It was about a year after thatthat I landed this really,
really amazing contract withsomeone who wanted to take my
Fierce Academy programming,which was a blend of mental
health tools and meditation andpsycho education and you know,
it was like a course basically,that allowed people to face
(31:43):
their fears.
So he wanted to take thisprogramming and he wanted to
develop his company with it.
And it was just this massivecontract where I was paid very
well and I got to coach and domy art and all of that.
So this is an amazing year.
And then that contract endedright before COVID.
I was sort of lost again.
I mean, you'll know that,talking to any artist, there is
(32:05):
this common experience whereyou're sort of reinventing
yourself.
It's like mini deaths.
You'll land a contract oryou'll get a gig, and it's this
amazing experience and you feelsuccessful and you make your
money, and then it's like itstops and then it's like what's
next?
That has been the pattern of mylife, and this contract was the
epitome of that.
It was like the best experienceI've had as an artist and as a
(32:28):
coach thus far.
And then the deal just ended.
I didn't feel like I couldsustain the ups and downs of
this industry anymore.
I didn't feel like I had theresilience I needed.
I felt trapped again.
I felt like, well, I don't haveany formal education, so if I
don't want to teach fitnessanymore and I'm not making
(32:49):
enough money with my music, whatam I going to do?
I was encouraged by thisspiritual mentor to go into
university and I just thoughtyou know what I can't handle
this guy telling me to go backto school anymore.
I'm just going to do it.
You know like I'll do it, andjust kind of say there, you know
, are you happy?
And, daniela, I really didn'twant to go.
I was totally not convincedthat I was going to do well at
(33:14):
all.
I was scared.
It felt too big for me.
It felt like I was giving up oneverything I had worked for.
I was devastated.
That which is hilarious,because now I look at it like,
okay, I got to go to university,I had that privilege, right,
but I was devastated because Ifelt like I had failed and then
I just kept pushing through.
(33:34):
I couldn't be more gratefulthat I chose to do that.
Daniela SM (33:37):
But so you are full at university or you are
working as well.
Janey Brown (33:41):
I'm working as well, so I did the degree part
time over the last four years.
Yeah, every step of the way wasvery, very challenging, but now
I am very grateful.
Daniela SM (33:52):
Okay, and so, in the fear of the anatomy, how did
you came up with that idea?
Janey Brown (33:56):
In 2016,.
I had this idea, that thoughtwhat if I take all of my
wellness education andeverything I know about the
nervous system and breath andall of my coaching education?
And what if I create a coachingprogram for artists to help
them overcome stage fright?
Because one of the things thatI went into therapy for was this
really high level of stagefright that I was still dealing
(34:19):
with behind the scenes.
I worked on this online programfor about a year.
The reason I chose the nameFEARCE Academy the way I spell
it is F E A R C E is because Inmy research and in my learning,
I realized that the only way tomanage fear is to integrate it
into your human experience.
(34:39):
It's not to become fearless,it's not to override the fear.
That will only make you moreafraid or it'll only lead to
problems down the line.
The only way you can deal withfear effectively is to expose
yourself to it and and in agrade the fear and learn how to
turn it into fuel.
Now, obviously, context matters, and so fears F-E-A-R-C-E is a
(35:00):
demonstration of the interplayof the word itself is a
combination of fear and fears.
You need your fear to be fears.
Yeah, that's clever.
Daniela SM (35:09):
I like it, thank you.
And so now you're still writingsongs, yes, are you singing?
Yes, and do you have yourdegree?
Tell me more.
What else are you doing in thefuture?
Now?
Janey Brown (35:19):
One day, I hope, to release a full album.
I actually just released a songcalled Thank you for Loving Me.
You know that's going to besomething that I continue is
just to release art in pieces,the way that I can right now,
the way that I have the capacityand the finances to do so.
One day I will achieve a fulllength album, so I am writing
songs in anticipation for thatone day.
I will be releasing a book thisfall.
(35:42):
That book is essentially all ofthe material that my signature
coaching program is called Fearto Fierce and the book will also
be titled that and it basicallyhas taken the information,
compiled it into a book so thatif people don't want to do a
course, they can read a bookinstead.
I'm pushing really hard with mymanager, jason Pepper, right now
to get more speakingengagements and do more public
(36:04):
speaking.
So I think once I graduate atthe end of the fall, we're going
to really ramp up that side ofthe business of Fierce Academy.
Those are the things that sortof on deck right now slowly but
surely, more music and stillgoing to therapy, right, and
still going to therapy here andthere, for sure, yep.
Daniela SM (36:24):
You said that you were lost two times in the story
.
Yeah, we were lost twice.
Janey Brown (36:29):
Well, I was lost a lot, but I was like, yes,
really lost those two times.
Yes, the main ones.
Daniela SM (36:34):
Now I wonder if this will happen to you again,
something similar.
Would you handle it now, withyour wisdom and all your
training, in a different way?
Janey Brown (36:43):
Yeah, I mean.
I mean absolutely.
I don't.
I don't even see how I coulddeny that.
You know, when you're adifferent person and we all are
you have no choice but to handleit differently.
In a way, I'd like to believethat I wouldn't get as lost.
I know that I'm going to gothrough ups and downs.
Just walking this path as anartist in general is a ride.
(37:05):
It's its own mental illnessbeing an artist and an
entrepreneur like saying thattongue in cheek, but I kind of
mean it.
It's a lot of ups and downs,it's a lot of self doubt.
It's a lot of the same symptomsthat you experience with with a
mental health condition.
But every time I go throughthese challenges I do find
better ways to cope with it.
(37:26):
I'm not going to be perfect andI know that there's some things
down the pipeline that aregoing to rock my world.
I'm hoping that all thestrength and resilience that
I've built up will allow me tocope with it in a better way
than I've been able to in thepast.
Daniela SM (37:41):
I do believe, and thank you for answering that
question.
I do believe that we are justno titles, no jobs, no nothing
around us but our soul.
If everything is taken away,who are you?
And of course I'm not sayingsomething really bad happens,
that I will not struggle to, butat least you don't get attached
to the things that you're notsupposed to.
Janey Brown (38:03):
That is so powerful, my God.
You just put into wordssomething that was such a
prevalent experience as anartist that if you can use those
mini deaths, let's say, as anopportunity to get to know
yourself at the core, deeper anddeeper, without these titles,
without these passions, as anopportunity to remind yourself
(38:24):
who you are, it will eliminatesuffering.
I think that's completely trueand I think it's actually
probably the reason that I didsuffer for so long, because I
didn't want to let go of thatidentity to reducing, if not
eliminating, suffering, and Ididn't get that for a really
long time.
Daniela SM (38:41):
Yes, I mean it's not easy, right?
Because we're still in a worldwhere you have to work and you
have to survive and everythingis busy, busy.
So but at least if you're aware, then you know, at least next
time something happens you willhave the tools one more tool in
your box.
Janey Brown (38:56):
Yeah, absolutely, I completely agree.
Yeah, it's, and that's apowerful tool.
That's that's like the megatool.
Daniela SM (39:02):
Yes, so, Janey, thank you so much for being here
.
We will add in the show noteshow people can read you and also
your new song, awesome.
I would love that.
It was a pleasure.
I really enjoyed my pleasure.
I appreciate you being so opento sharing your story.
Janey Brown (39:20):
Oh, it's my absolute pleasure.
Thank you for asking amazingquestions and for letting me
share.
Thanks, thanks.
Daniela SM (39:25):
I hope you enjoyed today's episode I am Daniela and
you were listening to, becauseeveryone has a story.
Please take five seconds rightnow and think of somebody in
your life that may enjoy whatyou just heard, or someone that
has a story to be shared andpreserved.
When you think of that person,shoot them a text with the link
of this podcast.
(39:45):
This would allow the ordinarymagic to go further.
Join me next time for anotherstory conversation.
Thank you for listening.
Hasta pronto.
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