November 18, 2024 • 51 mins
What happens when you leave the hustle and bustle of New York City—the career, the comforts, the chaos—and embark on a year-long journey around the globe? For Margaret and her family, this was not just a dream but a life-changing decision.
Margaret shares her story of how that extraordinary experience ignited their adventure, the lessons they learned along the way, and the tales that made it all worthwhile. Their journey took them to 29 countries across 6 continents, where they embraced cultural hospitality and formed unexpected friendships.
Margaret Bensfield Sullivan is the author of "Following the Sun: Tales (and Fails) From a Year Around the World With Our Kids." After nearly 15 years in communications and brand marketing, including as a partner at WPP's Group SJR, she left her corporate career to travel with her family. A Washington, DC native, Margaret graduated from Vanderbilt University and holds a Master's in French from Middlebury College.
Margaret discusses the challenges and joys of "world schooling," the homeschooling approach they adopted while travelling. Transitioning from a settled routine to a more unpredictable lifestyle, they learned flexibility and resilience.
As Margaret moved from a corporate career to exploring her creative passions, she highlighted the value of storytelling. By documenting her family's travels, she created a personal record and an inspiration for others. She hopes to offer insights through sharing these stories, whether considering big changes or seeking escapist adventures.
Let's enjoy her story!
https://www.margaretbensfieldsullivan.com/
https://www.margaretbensfieldsullivan.com/followingthesun
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
DanielaSM (00:04):
Hi, I'm Daniela.
Welcome to my podcast.
Because Everyone has a Story,the place to give ordinary
people's stories the chance tobe shared and preserved.
Our stories become the languageof connections.
Let's enjoy it, connect andrelate because everyone has a
story and relate becauseeveryone has a story.
Welcome.
(00:25):
My guest is Margaret BenfieldSullivan, the author of
Following the Sound Tales andFails from.
A year around the world withour kids, and after nearly 15
years in communication and brandmarketing, she left her
corporate career and traveledwith her family.
So imagine leaving the hustleand bustle of New York City for
(00:48):
a year-long trip around theworld.
That's what Margaret and herfamily did.
I was super excited to meetMargaret, as, at the time of
this recording, my husband and Iwere planning to leave our
comfort zone to travel for sixmonths.
Now, as I post this episode, weare already two months into our
journey.
We didn't plan to travel aroundthe world.
(01:09):
Instead, we aim to visit lesserknown countries that fit our
budget.
It has been incredible to meetother nomadic individuals along
the way, people who live adifferent kind of life, breaking
free from routine, traditionalinstitutions and the
accumulation of possessions infavor of rich and meaningful
experiences.
(01:30):
What's fascinating is that,even with this shared way of
living, everyone brings theunique style to it.
There is no one-way fit.
All the commonality is, ofcourse, a willingness to be open
, to respect others and toembrace each moment as it comes.
Margaret and her husband hadthat experience, and not only.
(01:52):
They traveled the world for ayear.
They did it with two adorablelittle kids and nothing but
carry-on bags, which is quite achallenge.
She's here to shareunforgettable moments from their
incredible adventures anddiscuss how life changes when
they return home.
Margaret's story is aboutstepping far beyond their
(02:13):
comfort zone, discovering theworld as a family and finding
inspiration in everydayexperiences.
So let's enjoy her story.
Welcome, margaret, to the show.
Thank you for having me.
I am very excited that you'rehere.
I know you have a story and youhave written a book, so why do
you want to share your story?
I?
Margaret Bensfield Sulliv (02:32):
think the reason I want to share our
story, my family's story, isbecause we did something that at
the time felt very scary and itfelt like a big departure from
our conventional lives and wetook a big risk and we were not
the kind of people you wouldexpect to do something like that
, or at least I felt that wayabout myself.
And then when we did it, whichwas take a big trip around the
(02:54):
world, it's something that wecan say we accomplished.
We did hard things, we are ableto do that and it's a point of
pride for our family, and I justfeel like it's exciting to get
to tell other people who may bewondering what it might be like
or asking what if, if we took anadventure, if we took a risk in
life, what might happen.
So if we can do it, anyone can,and I feel like that's a story
(03:15):
worth sharing.
DanielaSM (03:16):
Yes, you're right.
I love that you're sharing that.
It's true.
We all need to share storieslike that, and so, before we get
into this story, have you doneanything else as scary as that
since you did that?
Margaret Bensfield Sulliva (03:29):
That was our big, big moment.
But you know, we can measureour lives in like before and
after that moment, and eversince then we've always said,
well, if we could do that, thenwe can definitely do fill in the
blank.
So it's given us a bravery andconfidence that we did not have
before.
We travel a lot still, so thiswas a travel story and we have
(03:50):
incorporated travel into everypossible moment of our lives
since.
DanielaSM (03:53):
Wonderful.
So when does your story startFor the purposes of this podcast
.
Margaret Bensfield Sullivan (03:59):
The story begins in 2017, when my
husband and I are happilymarried.
We have two small children,three and five years old.
We live in New York City.
Things are humming along.
We've got great jobs, greatcareers.
He has started a softwarecompany and I'm a partner at a
marketing and PR agency whereI've been for a long time.
(04:19):
The kids are in a great school,we have a lovely home, we have
a wonderful group of friends, wehave a dog, we have a car.
Life is exactly where wethought we needed to be, and we
didn't ask any questions aboutwhether or not we should be
doing anything differently.
Traveled a lot for my job inthese days, and so it wasn't
(04:42):
unusual for me to take such along trip, far away trip.
But what was different aboutthis trip was that I had one of
these epiphanies, an aha momentin my travels, because I stepped
off the treadmill, because Igot out of my bubble and away
from my children, away from mydesk at work in New York City,
and kind of looked up and aroundat Tanzania.
(05:05):
I was surrounded by differentpeople.
It was a conference.
Everyone was bringing some new,interesting ideas to the table
and discussion about worldpolitics or developments in
science.
This was a TED conference thatI went to that was one of my
clients at the time and therewas something about being there
in that moment where I justthought wait a second.
There is so much happening outhere in the world that I am just
(05:26):
I've had my head down in NewYork and been so focused on my
little life and my little job.
Everything seemed little.
All of a sudden when I realizedthere's so much out here going
on and suddenly I thought tomyself what do we need to do as
a family to take advantage of it, to see it all.
And I came home from thatadventure I mean, it was only
four days, but it really changedmy whole perspective on what
(05:48):
our family needed to be doing.
I just felt like we needed toopen our eyes to what was out
there.
So I pitched an idea to myhusband that I cooked up on the
flight home, and it wasbasically let's quit our jobs,
take our kids out of school,give up our apartment, pack our
bags and hit the road for a yeartraveling and learning as much
about the world as we possiblycan, while we still have the
chance.
DanielaSM (06:09):
Wow, what an incredible situation.
You were four days only toTanzania from New York.
Margaret Bensfield Sullivan (06:15):
Oh, maybe it was five.
I mean a very long way to go.
Wow, I know that Three flightsto get there and back, but
actually I credit those longflights with helping me sit with
the idea.
A funny story actually is thatone of those flights home the
first one really had a veryspecific moment that helped
trigger this and inspire thisidea, which is that the plane
(06:38):
from Arusha, tanzania, to Dar esSalaam that was making a
stopover in Zanzibar.
I sat down in my seat and on theplane boarded an American
family that looked a lot likemine, with kids a little bit
older.
At the time and I thought, hmm,that's interesting.
They're here in the middle ofthe school year, they're
traveling, it seems like they'reon vacation.
They came and they sat behindme and I eavesdropped on them
(07:00):
the whole flight as they weredoing their math workbooks and
talking about where they weregoing next.
And they got off at Zanzibarand I watched them out the
window walk across the tarmacand I just thought this feels
like a sign.
You know this American familyin the middle of the school year
.
How are they pulling this off?
People are doing this.
And then it just inspired me tothink, oh, maybe we could do
something similar.
(07:20):
Maybe these people are taking asabbatical or a family gap year
?
DanielaSM (07:24):
do something similar .
Maybe these people are taking asabbatical or a family gap year
.
Wow, interesting part of thestory.
Yes, I'm glad I asked that.
When you say that you went toTanzania and you saw, oh my God,
my life is little, so you know,like expecting compared with
everything, traveling it changedthat perspective.
Margaret Bensfield Sullivan (07:40):
In some ways, travel makes you feel
even smaller.
Yeah, exactly that's what I wassaying.
It's not a bad thing.
I think it's a wonderful thing.
I think, from a parentingperspective alone, you realize
the things that you thought wereso important to do.
As a parent, you know get yourkid into the right school or
doing the right activities, orbefriending these people.
None of that, when you takeinto consideration all the
(08:03):
people that you met and themillions of people who are
clearly doing life differentlythan we think we need to be
doing it at home.
All of that puts everything inperspective and allowed us to
come home and look at our ownpriorities and think, oh, none
of those things that we caredabout before actually matter,
because you can do life incountless, infinite numbers of
ways and still have theopportunity to be fulfilled or
(08:27):
happy or lead a meaningful life.
It doesn't have to be the waywe thought we needed to do it.
DanielaSM (08:32):
Wow, you kids were little, so three and five.
Margaret Bensfield Sulli (08:34):
That's when the idea happened and then
.
So I came home, pitched theidea to my husband and we say it
took us about eight months towork up the courage to say yes
to the idea and another eightmonths to work up the courage to
say yes to the idea and anothereight months to get out the
door.
So by the time we left, thechildren were four and six, and
they turned five and sevenduring the course of the travel
year.
DanielaSM (08:53):
And do you see that they change from the beginning
to when they came back withtheir friends and the attitude?
Margaret Bensfield S (08:59):
Absolutely .
I mean they were, of course,young, but we joked that my son,
who started the year withhiding under my skirt and with a
buzz cut, ended the year withshaggy hair, wearing tropical
shirts and like a man of theworld who had the confidence to
go up and talk to anybody.
So we always joke that he wentfrom stroller to swagger in one
(09:21):
year.
But yeah, they came back with alot of new traits.
I would say they were verychatty, very comfortable with
new people, especially grownups.
I mean it was a year where theymet new grownups every day and
they perfected their small talkin some ways what their names
are, where they're from, wherethey're traveling, what their
favorite countries are.
(09:42):
They had their whole shtickdown and I think that that
confidence and comfort levelit's still there.
But it's hard to say now.
They're older.
They're, you know, they're 10and 12 today.
So it's hard to say what it wasabout the trip that shaped them
, or what's nature versusnurture.
I think that there are a lot ofways.
(10:02):
I mean it's impossible for thisexperience not to have shaped
them into who they are.
DanielaSM (10:06):
Yeah, that's amazing , that's great, Wonderful.
Then you pitched the idea, youtook off and you travel for a
year.
I know you wrote a book, butbefore we go to the book, the
book calls Following the Sun.
Because you're following thesun, that's where you chose to
go to places.
Margaret Bensfield Sullivan (10:22):
It was.
I mean, the title has multiplemeanings, but really that is the
way that we organized ouritinerary, and it was when it
was overwhelming to look at aworld map and think we have a
year, where could we go?
How are we going to do this?
Where do we start?
The first concept was okay,let's stick to warm weather or
seasonal warm weather, and thatway we plotted our general path
(10:44):
around the world.
So we left in January of 2019.
And so we headed straight downto South America.
We hit the summer there, andthen we went over to Africa
still summer there and then upto the Middle East and then
Europe for the European summer,and that's when we spent the
second half of the year.
We left there for Asia and thenEurope for the European summer,
(11:04):
and that's when we spent thesecond half of the year.
We left there for Asia, andthen Australia, new Zealand and
home via Japan and Hawaii.
So it was one year followingthe sun.
Our only real cold weather waswinter in Japan.
We spent Christmas in Tokyo.
DanielaSM (11:18):
That's cool.
Wow, that's amazing.
What happened when you weregoing to nearly finish the year?
Were you sad about it?
Margaret Bensfield Sulliv (11:49):
Would you want it to continue or were
you like, okay, we reallystarted savoring our lasts.
You know, last beach, last hotel, last rental car, last, you
know, we just every last lastMonday morning.
And Monday mornings were reallyspecial for us that year because
, as people who had workedreally hard to have a free
(12:09):
Monday morning where you justwake up and all you have on the
schedule that day is to spend itwith your family adventuring
and exploring a new part of theworld, that was exciting.
So we, we savored everythingand by the time we got to the
end, we were ready and I wouldsay an important tip here is
that we actually changed ouritinerary to have we were going
to be skiing our last week andwe decided, no, we need a soft
(12:33):
landing, we need a last weekwhere we're together as a family
, chill, rehashing the memories,recounting our inside jokes and
our favorite moments anddiscussing what we're going to
be looking forward to most abouthome.
So we changed it to Hawaii andwe had a wonderful week just as
a family, with that reallypeaceful wind down week of
(12:56):
discussion and reflection andpreparing to go back into our
old lives Wonderful, and wereyou staying in Airbnbs?
DanielaSM (13:03):
We?
Margaret Bensfield Sullivan (13:04):
did do a lot of Airbnbs.
When we first pictured the year,we imagined mostly Airbnbs, you
know, kind of living likelocals everywhere we went, and
what ended up happening isbecause we had so many stops we
did 29 countries across sixcontinents we ended up staying
in a lot of hotels and I wasworried about that at first.
We'd booked a lot of hotels.
I thought this isn't a veryauthentic experience, but it
(13:26):
turns out that for us at least,the experience wasn't made
authentic or not by where westayed.
It was more about the peoplethat we met in the moment, like
going out of our way to befriendstrangers and talk to people
during our day led to so manyexciting, you know invitations
(13:47):
to a barbecue at somebody'shouse or a recommendation for a
restaurant we never would havefound on our own.
Those kinds of moments werewhat made it authentic for us.
And then to be able to comehome to a maid bed and you know
we just had somewhere to sleepthat night that a lot of the
hotels that we did pick wereactually independently owned,
and so we got to know the ownersand you know there was a.
(14:08):
There was a bit of localcontact there as well, but we
stayed in more hotels than Ithought we would.
DanielaSM (14:13):
But so so you went to strangers, or let's talk to
him and ask them questions.
Margaret Bensfield Sullivan (14:18):
We did and we are.
So that's not our nature.
Our nature, you know, we're NewYorkers, you keep your head
down and we're a bit introvertedtoo, so that's not our
inclination at all to talk tostrangers.
But we recognize that if wewere going to do this, we were
going to do it the right way andwe knew that meant getting to
know local people.
So not only did we just putaside our fears of an
(14:41):
embarrassment andself-consciousness about talking
to people, so yes, we wouldtalk to somebody on the bus.
We'd ask someone for directions, We'd say we don't know
anything in this neighborhood.
Do you know a place where wecould get breakfast?
We did that a lot.
But we'd also put out a call onsocial media or to our friends
and say does anyone know anybodyin Santiago, Chile or Shanghai?
And people would my cousinlives there, my nephew's Nobody
(15:02):
in Santiago, Chile or Shanghai,and people would my cousin lives
there, my nephew's friend'shairdresser.
And we would seize on thoseanswers.
We'd track the people down andwe were always surprised that
the people we looked up werelike, yeah, sure, come over or
let's meet up or let's have aplay date with our kids at the
playground.
Sometimes I wondered if wewould be so gracious to other
(15:25):
people visiting New York, but ofcourse we are now and always
will be, because we're eternallygrateful for those encounters.
That's what gave us the realfeeling of a place.
DanielaSM (15:34):
Of course, yes, you see, that's the way I am always.
Our house is always open forpeople.
If we travel, I would lovepeople to help me.
I know that's wonderful openfor people.
If we travel, I would lovepeople to help me.
I know that's wonderful,wonderful that you have that
experience.
And which country or continentdo you feel that they welcome
your kids more than others?
Margaret Bensfield Sulli (15:52):
That's a great question.
I would say there's no doubtthat the South American
countries we went to were SouthAmerica and Spain were the most
kid obsessed places we went and,really interestingly, the only
places we went where there werespecial lines for families,
special lines and discounts andperks and all the things.
If you had little kids with you, and not only that, but you
(16:15):
could just feel the love.
Everything was easier becausewe had these little adorable
people with us, and my son inparticular, who was four.
He would get his hair ruffledeverywhere we went.
Men would pick him up and throwhim in the air.
We'd walk by the fruit standand people would just hand out
fruit to us.
I mean, it was like this veryloving experience, I would say
(16:37):
there and Southeast Asia,especially with men, because I
think that the culture in a lotof countries we went to is where
the retired grandpa is finallygetting to experience like the
joy of being a grandfather andhaving his own grandkids around.
We saw a lot of love fromgrandpas around the world, I
would say, and which was reallylike heartening and funny to see
(17:01):
.
It's as if we always joke that.
It's as if grown men have beenstanding around waiting to play
all day, like they just want tokick a soccer ball.
They want to throw a stuffedanimal back and forth in the air
, which was something we sawwith a guy in Egypt, and he and
my son were just having the besttime throwing this.
You just never know, but havingkids along certainly made
everything easier.
DanielaSM (17:21):
Yes, I feel like, especially when we went to
Mexico, it was always likepeople were in love with your
kids and they were also friendly.
So, yes, that's awesome.
Let's talk about your book.
How did that come about?
Margaret Bensfield Su (17:33):
Naturally , people have a lot of questions
about what we did, our friendsand then people.
We kept a little Instagramaccount throughout the year and
the more people who startedfollowing, the more curious they
became, and it was reallyinteresting to see how people
were.
They wanted to understand how,how do you do laundry?
What happens when you get sick?
How are you only carryingtravel size?
(17:54):
Carry on bags?
How are you staying with yourkids around all the time?
What about homeschooling?
It was like a lot of the samequestions over and over, and
then people wanting to knowabout the places we went.
You went to Mongolia.
What was that like?
So we took very meticulous notes.
I had a daily blog that myhusband and I alternated days
writing funny quotes where wewent, little observations about
(18:16):
the places we visited.
And when I reviewed all of thatand then consider the number of
questions we were getting, Ijust thought I wonder if there's
a book here.
I wonder if I could put allthis together and if it's just
for me and my family, then Iwill have created a lovely
record, but if it can be usefulto someone else, like I would
have killed for this book whenwe were in the planning stages
(18:36):
of our year, then all the better, and so I spent the pandemic
writing the book.
And it turns out writing a bookis hard.
I'd never done that before.
I thought it would be like acouple of months I got this, but
it took several years and butit was such a joy and I love the
response that it's getting.
DanielaSM (18:54):
Going back to the luggage thing, I saw some
pictures and you only had handluggage.
How do you manage that for ayear?
I?
Margaret Bensfield Sulliva (19:01):
know .
Well, it helped that we were inwarm weather only.
I would say that we had about aweek's worth of clothing, at
all times with extra underwear.
That was somebody's advice andit was the right advice have
lots of underwear.
But really, just from speakingfor myself, I only needed one
dress.
I only needed one bathing suit,one workout outfit, one
(19:23):
nightgown.
I only needed one bathing suit,one workout outfit, one
nightgown.
You think you need a bunch oflooks.
Why?
This was the year of suspendingvanity.
I like to say this was not theyear to look beautiful.
I had no one to impress.
We were going to a new placeevery three days.
I could wear the same thing allthe time, and same with the
kids.
They were small too, so theirclothes fit nicely in a carry-on
bag and, believe it or not,when we came home, our bags were
(19:44):
lighter than when we left.
We just really discovered howlittle we need, and that has
translated into our life today,where we are pretty minimalist.
We got rid of a lot of clutter,both figuratively and literally
speaking.
So now when we travel, we onlytravel with carry-on bags.
We love our Briggs and Rileybags.
(20:04):
We got two new ones and they'reeven smaller than the ones we
had before, and my son, daughterand I just took a trip for a
week and all three of us went inone of those carry-on roller
bags.
So we like to pack light.
DanielaSM (20:17):
So who gave you the advice?
Why the most underwear?
Margaret Bensfield Sulliva (20:23):
It's like, if you're going to
overpack anything, just makesure you have enough underwear.
And it's like, oh, you know, ifwe couldn't get to the
laundromat that day, the onething you really, really want is
clean underwear, so we alwayshad extra.
DanielaSM (20:34):
Yes, I wonder because you know we are going to
travel soon, in only six months, but I keep thinking, oh, I
need these and I need that.
And I'm like, oh my God, theday that I'm going to have to
pack is going to be major.
We didn't think that we need todo hand luggage.
We thought like we're going tobring a whole bag, but then I'm
starting to think, oh my God,what if it gets lost?
Margaret Bensfield Sulliva (20:54):
Yeah , I think for us it depends on
the itinerary.
We were going to so many placesthat the concept of lugging
around huge suitcases felt sodaunting.
The trip itself was hard enough.
Like, let's not add to thatchallenge and the difficulty
level by having a bunch of junkwith us as well.
Keep it simple.
DanielaSM (21:12):
I know.
But then the concept of youimmediately thinking I need one
dress, one exercise, you knowlike it's just really not easy,
not easy.
Margaret Bensfield Sullivan (21:21):
And so for me, even though we had
this concept, I still had threedresses, three bathing suits,
and I crammed it all in there,and it only took a couple of
weeks for me to realize this wasridiculous and I don't need
this stuff.
And so that's when I was ableto totally let go.
I didn't totally start there,but I realized pretty quickly
(21:43):
that I did not need it and itwas just more trouble than it
was worth.
DanielaSM (21:46):
You were holding yourself from buying anything
when you were traveling.
Oh, that's cute, but we don'tneed it.
Margaret Bensfield Sullivan (21:51):
We only bought things if we felt
like we could never find it athome.
It was truly special and it wassomething that we wanted as a
memory for our trip.
As a memory for our trip, andan example would be we were in
Copenhagen and I didn't do a lotof shopping that year unless it
was to replace t-shirts orwhatever.
But I saw a beautiful dress bya Danish designer and it fit
(22:14):
perfectly and beautiful colors,and I just thought I'm going to
get this.
It's a treat and I'll alwaysremember Copenhagen and this
designer.
I still have it.
It's in my closet.
So when we came across thingslike that, a piece of art, when
we were in the Amazon rainforest, our guide whittled a blow gun
and darts for my children and wesaved that and we have it
(22:35):
hanging on our wall.
Things like that that werereally special.
We would collect them.
We had a little extra tote bagfor our souvenirs like that.
When the tote was full, we knewit was time to go to a DHL.
We'd pack up a bag, ship it tomy parents' house and when we
came home at the end of the yearwe had a nice little pile of
treasures that were like thisexciting little mountain of
(22:57):
things that were waiting for usat home, that decorate our
apartment now.
And one of the reasons we didthis is because I spoke to a
family that was travelingsimilarly to the way we did.
They had done it a few yearsbefore and they said their
biggest regret was that theydidn't buy souvenirs because
they thought it would be toomuch of a burden, too expensive,
to ship and all of this.
They didn't need it.
And then they said you know,all these years later, we don't
(23:19):
have anything tangible for ourmemories.
We just don't have anything.
We regret that.
So I just thought we're notgoing to buy anything and
everything, but if it's reallyspecial, we'll get it.
DanielaSM (23:28):
Interesting, because you know, I feel like you
always do things like this oh,this is really special, and at
the end you bring it home, butit's not.
It's the same as taking a lotof pictures.
I mean, I do think that we needto take pictures because you
forget things, but sometimes youwaste time taking a picture you
forgot to look with your owneyes.
Sometimes it will be in yourhead way better than when you
(23:50):
take the picture.
That's true.
Margaret Bensfield Sulli (23:52):
That's true, Although maybe it's
because we have kids, but I feellike our photos keep it all
alive.
If we didn't have these photos,I'm not sure they would
remember nearly as much.
I know they don't remembernearly as much as we do my
husband and I do.
So the photos.
There's a balance.
You've got to get the greatphoto and then stop, put it all
(24:12):
away and just savor the moment,Absolutely.
DanielaSM (24:14):
Yes, you're right, the balance we have to Google
home and so every time Googleshow pictures and I'm like, oh,
when we went there?
Oh, we went there, you know.
So it is really good.
The other part is to see themlittle, and now they're 24 and
21 and I'm always like, oh, Imiss that time.
So in a way it makes me sadmost of the time because I'm
(24:36):
like they're never going to belittle again and that's so cute.
I'm glad we have these pictures.
Margaret Bensfield Sul (24:41):
Pictures are important, especially when
the kids are in them, because Ifeel like my kids now know this
story of our family very well,like this is who we are, this is
what we did, this is the familynarrative and so those photos
even if they don't remember thedetails of the trip, they know
that this is what we stand forand, like they have they,
(25:01):
they've totally internalizedthat thanks to the pictures.
DanielaSM (25:05):
Yes, and so how was it coming back after a year?
Margaret Bensfield Sullivan (25:10):
I would say the immediate return
was tricky because, especiallyfor my children they were, you
know the trip represented such alarge portion of their lives
that they barely remembered whatit was like before.
So they went from a year whereevery day was new.
They staying somewhere, new,new languages, new this, where
(25:31):
are we going tomorrow?
What's happening tomorrow?
And there was always adifferent answer to coming back
to New York, going back to theirschool, and they stopped asking
what are we doing tomorrow?
Because every day was the sameand that did not sit well with
them at first.
Not only was the routinesomething they weren't used to,
but they were separated fromtheir parents, they were
(25:52):
separated from each other, andthat was very hard, I would say.
For that first two weeks backat school, when they went into
kindergarten and second grade,they cried every morning and it
was really hard on us too.
We took a few weeks.
It was like this confusing,nowhere of in-betweenness is how
somebody described this momentof transition and change.
But like anything, you know, wesettled and we got back into
(26:13):
our habits, we got to see ourfriends and things started to
feel good again.
And then the pandemic happened.
So we went pretty much from ourreturn, with a little moment of
normal, into the pandemic andthen we were like everyone else.
You know questions aboutpandemic and having the moment
to be home together, just thefour of us, was like an extended
(26:47):
pause and way to keep thetraditions of our trip going and
continue to reflect oneverything that we learned and
make a decision to write a book.
It was that it was not what weexpected, but it was okay.
DanielaSM (27:02):
Well, I can see the perfect timing to decide to go
from January to January,Otherwise I'm going to return.
And secondly, that, yes, youwere separated and then you come
back and you already knew howto be together for so long that
for you, maybe during thepandemic you didn't have the
options of what are we doingtomorrow, but you still knew how
(27:24):
to work together, the four ofyou, which maybe some of your
friends wouldn't have had.
Margaret Bensfield Sulliva (27:28):
That yeah, where people were going
crazy and cooped up with theirfamily around all the time.
That was our preferred state atthat point, you know, we were
fine with it.
We joked that people would say,oh, you're already used to
homeschooling.
Well, you know, the kids doingschool with their teacher on
(27:52):
Zoom was a lot easier than mommyand daddy creating a curriculum
and forcing them to do theirschoolwork.
I mean, it was more likeproctoring during COVID, and so
your friends.
DanielaSM (27:57):
They were calling you for advice in that moment,
when you already knew how to bewith your family at all times.
Margaret Bensfield Sullivan (28:03):
Yes for sure, and especially with
the school.
You know just.
People always said how did youdo this?
My kid doesn't want to learnfrom me.
They don't want to listen to mewhen I'm printing out the
worksheets.
And, of course, homeschoolingwas one of the big struggles of
our year.
You'd asked six months into theyear how it was going for us.
We would have said terrible.
But it turns out that withrepetition and consistency the
(28:26):
kids just got with the programand we eventually learned how to
do it.
What was helpful and the lessonthat we passed on to our
friends during the pandemic isthat a school day when really
boiled down to the academics isquite short compared to the six
hours they're in the building.
There's a lot of transition andrecess and lunch and whatever
Academics.
For their age it was 30 minutesmath, 30 minutes writing, 30
(28:48):
minutes reading every day.
Done so with knowing that it'sjust 90 minutes and you can bang
it out in the morning and bedone, was reassuring to people
and effective.
DanielaSM (28:58):
Yes, so you were doing that.
You had a routine where youwere traveling.
Margaret Bensfield Sullivan (29:07):
Yes , wake up in the morning, have
breakfast, knock out ourschooling first thing.
I would teach my daughter, myhusband taught my son.
At first we tried to do iteveryone together and that did
not work.
So we learned separate rooms,separate paths.
We would do our 90 minutes withlittle stretching breaks in
between, and then it waslunchtime and that would be the
end of school.
So we would have our lunch andset out for the afternoon on
some adventure, to explorewherever we were visiting, and
(29:29):
sometimes that meant aplayground, sometimes that meant
a market, other times it was atour or, you know, a museum.
But every day it lookeddifferent.
But that was more or less howwe did it and we did school
every day that we were notflying somewhere.
So, even if it was Sunday, evenif it was Easter, even, you
know, we did not stop for aweekend.
(29:50):
We didn't know the differencebetween Monday and Sunday anyway
on the road.
So we, if we were not flying,we were doing school that day.
DanielaSM (29:59):
And they learned to give in to that.
So it wasn't really five days aweek, because you could have
been seven in a row.
Margaret Bensfield Sulliv (30:04):
Right , right, okay, okay yes, yeah,
um, it rarely was, because wedid fly so much.
Um.
And then there were times whenwe were in the middle east where
we had back-to-back touring,you know, we were seeing luxor
and aswan and cairo and we hadtemple tours starting at dawn.
You had to wake up first thingbecause the heat was so bad.
So on days like that we justsaid you know, this is school
(30:27):
and um, it is cool that is thebest school they can have,
really.
DanielaSM (30:33):
Yeah, there's a term .
Margaret Bensfield Sulliva (30:34):
It's world schooling and, believe it
or not, there's a wholecommunity out there of world
schoolers, people who do what wedid, but in a permanent state.
There are nomadic families thatare just traveling the world
and, yes, they do some math and,yes, they have their reading
requirements, but it's reallyabout being out in the world and
(30:54):
learning and I'm fascinated bythis niche of people.
They're really their kids arefascinating.
They're doing something right.
DanielaSM (31:02):
Yes, that is something that I'm fascinated
about too.
I will say that the onlydisadvantage is that, if you
ever settle, or if you ever bein one place, that you will
always feel a stranger, like youdon't belong to anywhere
because you belong everywhere.
You don't have to be a nomad,and that happens.
People who are mixed cultureslive in different countries, and
(31:22):
I will be one of those, becausewe all need a sense of
belonging and that sometimes ismissing.
I think that's one of thedisadvantages, I agree.
Margaret Bensfield Sullivan (31:31):
In fact, when we thought we have a
year to do something, whatshould it be?
One of the thoughts was shouldwe move abroad and live
somewhere for a year?
And I had done that.
I lived in France for threeyears before I had kids and I
just thought I don't love thatbecause you're never going to be
fully accepted in a place andthen you feel disconnected to
where, accepted in a place andthen you feel disconnected to
(31:52):
where.
So I've done that.
It can be great, but I wasready to just go, go, go.
Another thing I'll say about thedisadvantage of the world.
Schooling constant, nomadic isa theme that I see all the time
in these online discussiongroups of families is it's great
until the kids are about 13, 14, 15 and suddenly you see
parents saying my kids reallywant to come home and be settled
and go to a school and makefriends.
What do I do?
(32:13):
And oh yeah, me too.
That happened when my daughterturned 13.
So there is like that middleschool age where kids are
craving community and in oneplace, and I see it with my own
kids.
DanielaSM (32:24):
And also a reason why going to high school is not
really necessarily to learn, oreven universities for the
connections that you make.
My husband for him, was likethe most important, that the
kids will have the school yearsin one place.
Well, interesting.
And so you met a lot of nomadicfamilies then.
Margaret Bensfield Sullivan (32:41):
I have met them in writing this
book.
Well, I was connected to anumber of people in the lead up
to the book because and which?
What helped inspire it?
Just oh, I know a family that'sthinking of doing what you did.
Could I put you in touch withthem?
And I started to write thatsame email over and over for
different people.
I just thought this might be abook.
But yeah, there is a communityout there and it fascinates me.
(33:04):
It really does.
We think we were brave doing itfor one year.
People who are doing it forfive, 10 years and up is
incredible.
DanielaSM (33:10):
But it doesn't fascinate.
Is it like making you thinkabout the future?
Margaret Bensfield Sullivan (33:15):
I mean, if it were up to me, we
probably would still be outthere, but I get that we needed
to come home, see some familyand settle back into a new, very
different version of a lifethat we decided that we wanted
to try to lead when we weretraveling.
We thought we have anopportunity to design a new kind
of life when we return, so thatwe don't go back into the same
(33:37):
habits and fall into the sameroutines where you're just on
this treadmill and you look upone day and your kids are going
to college.
Let's not do that.
Let's be more purposeful withour time.
Claim our time only, spend thattime doing the things that we
love, with the people that welove, preferably outside, and
doing new things all the time.
(33:58):
So we just there were so manylessons that we learned from the
trip that we have nowincorporated into our daily
lives, which is why, like I said, we just can measure our lives
in the before and after of thatexperience.
DanielaSM (34:11):
Did you lose friends when you came back?
Or did you lose it in the sensethat you'll say, okay, maybe I
don't want to hang around withthem.
You're more selective.
Margaret Bensfield Sullivan (34:21):
No, but I would say that we've
really focused on theconnections that we want to
nurture and grow and those arethe ones where we've put all of
our effort and we spend moretime.
I would say if there's anopportunity to oh, maybe we
could go see the grandparentsfor this, or not.
We're kind of busy that weekend.
(34:42):
We always say let's just go doit.
We are always making the mostof time with the people we
really do want to spend timewith, like family and, of course
, our dear friends, who, many ofthem, don't live in New York
anymore post-pandemic but wewill always make an effort to go
visit and we're those peoplewho are going to say don't
invite us, because we will showup, we're going to find you.
DanielaSM (35:03):
And I agree with that, and I wonder sometimes if
that makes you kind ofclose-minded in the sense that,
okay, you are saying these arethe people that I value the most
and then you're not lettingpeople in.
Do you feel that that could bethe case?
Margaret Bensfield Sullivan (35:18):
No, I think that we have had a
complete shift in the way thatwe view the people that we meet,
and so new people are like, areso excited about.
We are more outgoing than we'veever been in our lives.
Our kids started a new schoollast year.
We jumped right in.
We've met everyone in thecommunity.
We've gotten to know all kindsof people through different
activities and interests thathave taken hold in the time
(35:40):
after our trip.
So we are more open to peoplethan we ever ever were before.
And you know, we're also thefirst people to walk up to
anyone on the street who seems alittle bit lost or like they
need help.
You know we're going to bethose friendly, outgoing people
always, so I think it changed usin a huge way in that regard.
DanielaSM (35:58):
Wonderful and it was not difficult to come back and
find jobs.
Did you change what you'redoing?
Besides that, you wrote a book.
Margaret Bensfield Sulliva (36:06):
Like I said, the book took a long
time.
So I did spend most of my timeduring the pandemic writing the
book.
My husband took his timefinding a job.
He had a software companybefore that got acquired.
He was like I'm not going tojump right into something that
is going to suck all my time upand where I'm just constantly
traveling or constantly at theoffice.
And he did.
He found a job that where hefeels like he gets to be
(36:27):
creative, he owns his time, heis building something new, but
without the pressure of the jobthat he had before.
And as for me, and once Ifinished this book, I've been
focusing on a far more creativepath, maybe in some ways what I
should have been doing all along, which is illustrating and
photography.
So I'm very excited.
I mean, that does feel scary.
(36:47):
You talked about things thatare scary or risky.
That we've done since we'vereturned, and to me, not going
back to a corporate job was likecan I do this?
And I'm trying.
So it's been you know the nextadventure.
But no, we didn't necessarilygo back to the same kinds of
jobs.
DanielaSM (37:03):
Yes, I saw your illustrations on your website.
They're very cute, so, butthere was not a lot, so what is
it that you're doing exactlywith them?
Margaret Bensfield Sulliva (37:09):
Well , I have a lot of private
commissions and I've beenworking on book illustrations
and editorial work for againlike in a private capacity, so
that's been humming along.
But I spent the last.
The book came out a couplemonths ago and I've just spent
the spring and summer talkingabout the book, giving talks,
doing publicity, and so that hastaken up a lot of time.
DanielaSM (37:29):
Interesting.
So when do you learn thisillustration?
Margaret Bensfield Sullivan (37:32):
I feel like I was always the kid
in class who could draw when Iwas little, and then I've just
taken classes for many, manyyears and it's always been my
passion and hobby.
But this is a chance.
Now I'm getting piecespublished and people are
contacting me for work, which isexciting and scary, but
continuing to take the classesand do the work and see where it
(37:56):
takes me.
DanielaSM (37:56):
Yeah, super creative , it's really beautiful.
So, going back to your book, Iwant to know.
You said that your book titlehas a lot of meaning, so we got
the one, the first one, which isyou know you're traveling
around the sun.
And what are the other ones?
Margaret Bensfield Sulliva (38:10):
Well , there's this great moment in
our year where I was sitting inIndonesia.
My son had just gotten out ofthe pool, it was the end of the
day, he was wrapped in a toweland I was cooking dinner.
We were at an Airbnb, the sunwas setting and the Beatles song
Follow the Sun came on.
We were listening to some music.
(38:31):
I'm not going to get the lyricstotally right, but they're
quite poignant, they're.
You know, tomorrow may rain, sofor now I'll follow the sun
while we're listening to it.
You know it's already kind of amoving and meaningful song.
But my son, who was five at thetime, said we're following the
sun, and I just like immediatelygot tears in my eyes because I
thought yeah, we are.
And not only are we.
You know, he's just repeatingwhat he's heard his parents say
(38:53):
a million times about ouritinerary.
But for me it was like yes,we're following the sun.
There may be rain tomorrow.
There may be pain, there may be, you know, hard times ahead,
but like, this is our momentwhere we are taking absolute
advantage of the time that wehave with our family to take an
adventure while we still havethe chance.
And so we're following the sunand we're doing what we can
today, because who knows whattomorrow holds.
DanielaSM (39:16):
How beautiful I feel like going with your kids.
It makes it like a way morememorable.
You know that when you don'thave the kids.
So that's amazing that you didthat.
It will happen again.
You said, you know, we now, ourkids are 21 and 24 and Ben and
I and I was me like five yearsago I started to think what if
we could do this?
And it took me a while to lookat the finances and then I
(39:40):
presented to my husband, I thinklike about 19 months ago, you
know, I didn't know how topresent it because I did mention
it before and he will be likeyou're crazy, that's not going
to happen.
And then I spoke to somefriends who said well, to
present it to your husband, youhave to talk this way.
So I did it.
It didn't take me very long.
I thought I have to prepare ameeting.
This is what's like talking tothe boss.
(40:01):
You have to have a presentationand a slideshow and everything.
And no, it was like I show afew numbers.
And he was like, oh, it'spossible.
And I was like, ok, we're doingthis.
So we have had the countdownand now we are at two months.
Ok, what's the plan?
The plan is we have a one wayticket and we're going to start
(40:22):
in Europe.
We're going to see family firstmy husband has family in
England, I have family in Spainand then we're going to Germany,
to the Balkan countries.
We'll see from there.
We don't have a plan, no, wejust have six months for sure.
So yes, it will happen againfor you.
Margaret Bensfield Sulli (40:40):
That's great Winging.
It was not the recipe forsuccess for us, but I can see
how it would be super excitingand especially without kids to
do it that way.
And my advice would be just toeverywhere you go, when you're
deciding where to go, next is totalk to the local people, like
where do you go on vacation orwhat you know?
I was just.
We went to Stockholm on our tripand we had a wonderful time.
(41:02):
But then I just went again thissummer with my daughter to
visit some Swedish Americanfriends.
We didn't know before, and whenwe were there he pointed to a
ship and he said oh, that's theferry that goes to Finland for
48 hours.
You just hop on and the ride isbeautiful.
You get there, you spend thenight in Helsinki and then you
come back and that's the trip.
And I never would have knownthat if he hadn't pointed out,
(41:22):
but apparently it's a thing thatthe Swedes like to do for a
weekend and I feel like you findthose little moments of like,
oh, we could pop over to Finlandfor the day or wherever you
know.
So talking to locals is great.
DanielaSM (41:34):
Yeah, yeah, we want to do slow travel and also we
are on a budget.
That's why we're pickingcountries that are not.
Yeah, don't go to Scandinavia.
I know, I know we know thatalready, so that's why we're
picking countries.
Also, I don't want to be whereeverybody goes all the time.
So you are advising, not doingit.
Margaret Bensfield Sullivan (41:58):
It was not for us, but we know
people who've done a year likewe did, exactly as you just
described, like get to onecountry and then start
researching where to next.
That adds an element ofexcitement, for sure.
And, like you, don't know anddon't?
We all want to have thatadventure.
That's like a real adventure.
That's a lot of fun.
You had a budget.
Yeah, we had a budget.
We just back of the envelope atthe outset just said what do we
(42:23):
roughly think we need per dayIf we're staying in a hotel or
an Airbnb?
And we wanted to account forflights and tours.
Obviously, the fewer stops onthe itinerary, the less
expensive it's going to be.
We wanted to see a lot, so itgrew and grew.
There was a funny moment in NewZealand when my son was five.
We were sitting at a pizzeriaand he had just learned the
concept of a pro-con list and hewrote pro in his big cray with
(42:47):
a big scrolling letters.
He said pros and cons of beinga grown up.
And in the pro column it saidget to do whatever you want.
And in the con column it saidhave to pay.
And we framed it because it'slike it's so funny.
It's pretty much summed up ouryear.
It was not our most fiscallyresponsible decision, but it was
(43:10):
the best investment in ourfamily we ever could have
possibly made, whenever we hadlittle panics about oh God, are
we spending too much?
This is crazy.
What are we doing?
We just remembered.
You know, unlike a lot ofthings like a mortgage or
tuition or whatever, this wasfinite.
This spending ended when we gothome and that was very
reassuring to us.
This was not something we'dshackled ourselves with until we
(43:35):
died.
This was like we're going tospend it, we're going to do it,
we're going to come home and getback to reality.
DanielaSM (43:41):
Yes, yes, and you know it's a risk, but the risk
is greater to stay in a placethat you always wonder if we
have done it right.
I think so, yeah, yes, and forme and my husband is also
thinking that intellectuallywe're not stimulated and that is
a bigger risk than staying in aconsistency.
You're getting a salary andyou're getting extended health,
(44:03):
and it's true.
I think that's right.
Yeah, so I'm glad that you wentand discovered all your
strengths and then illustrationand writing a book and all the
things that you're doing, andyou value all the things as well
.
There was, you will be in therat race.
Margaret Bensfield Sulliv (44:17):
Never I'd still be sitting at that
desk.
DanielaSM (44:20):
I want to be this time to reflect on what is it
that I want to do with the next45.
Margaret Bensfield Sullivan (44:36):
I know that's in.
My advice would be then to to,while you're away, write down as
much as possible, like everythought, every idea, every just
keep, keep it all in one place,and that those notes that I
accumulated over that year youstart reading through them again
and you're connecting dots andyou're thinking, oh, that
actually is a pattern I'm seeingwith the things that I care
about, or the things thatresonated with me, and you start
to notice like, oh, this iswhat I care about.
Those notes, those reflections,when gathered, I mean you're
(44:57):
going to forget about them ifyou don't write them down.
So for me, that was soimportant having those notes.
I treasure them.
DanielaSM (45:02):
Yes, and also I think it's wonderful the idea
that you said that you startconnecting the dots.
I wouldn't have thought of that.
Margaret Bensfield Sullivan (45:16):
But yes, you're right.
Well, I'll give you two liketactical examples.
One for the, for the journalthat he and I kept, we had a
Google doc that was open on bothof our phones during the day,
like if it was his day to writethe journal.
He'd just sort of jot down somelike a funny quote or an
interesting fact that we learned, or and just like, or the name
of the restaurant or something,and then at the end of the day
it was super easy for him tojust go in and crank out like a
couple of paragraphs about theday, and I would do the same.
(45:38):
So we had it all in this oneGoogle doc that we shared, okay.
And then for the connecting dots, I started keeping lists
because I realized, oh, you know, funny coincidences that happen
, amazing trees that weencountered, or like there were
these themes and motifs thatstarted to lend themselves
really well to lists.
Like times we were a hero.
You know, there was the time mykids chased a hat down the
(46:01):
beach that was blowing away, orthat we helped a lady in
Shanghai undo her dress from abicycle.
Like there were all theselittle moments that started to
accumulate into patterns andthemes that were some big, some
tiny.
It was really interesting.
So if you keep lists, runninglists, that would be my other
advice.
DanielaSM (46:18):
Interesting that you said do Google Docs?
I would have thought the oldway, like taking a notebook and
writing, but I think this yearit's much lighter.
Margaret Bensfield Sullivan (46:27):
I like the Google Docs because
it's searchable.
You know, you can always goback and say, well, didn't we
see something?
Or what happened in Cartagena,or whatever.
DanielaSM (46:34):
Okay, great advice, great advice, thank you.
And do you think that, becauseI have learned with the time,
now I am somebody who loveslearning and I realize that
there is no really one formulaand that really the advice from
everyone not necessarily helpsyou have you feel that?
Do you have the same feelingthat, yes, you can learn from
(46:57):
other people, but the truth, orpeople can learn from you, but
the truth is that everybody hastheir own formula they have to
figure out?
Margaret Bensfield S (47:04):
Absolutely .
And one of the like mantras thatI had when I was writing this
book was don't be prescriptive,don't tell people to do what you
did.
This is not a how-to book.
You are just sharing your storyand if people want to take from
it what they need, then theycan.
But this isn't a how-to.
(47:25):
This isn't a prescriptivereference book.
It is just our family's story,and so constantly keeping that
in mind was really helpful.
In telling the story.
I'm not like imposing on anyone.
This is the one and only way todo it, because this looks very,
very different for everybody.
DanielaSM (47:43):
Yes, and I'm glad that you mentioned that, because
I always notice that, too,people like to say you should do
these or you know the typicalthing tell your story and then
at the end, have a call toaction, which I hope is gone,
this concept of that.
Margaret Bensfield Sullivan (47:57):
I agree, because often what the
lesson at the end is not at allwhat I took away from the talk.
It's like that's not whatresonated.
You know, for me what I wrotedown in my notebook had
absolutely nothing to do withyour call to action.
DanielaSM (48:11):
Exactly, and so that's why I love people sharing
their story Not, you know, tonecessarily change people the
way they think, but something, alittle, one nugget, that will
change the way you think or addto your life.
That's the whole purpose ofeach story that we hear.
I love that.
So is there anything else thatcan do with this podcast,
(48:32):
anything else you want to share?
Margaret Bensfield Sullivan (48:34):
No, I just hope that anyone who is
either thinking about taking arisk or a departure from their
lives picks up this story andsees how one family approached
it, or if there is somebody whois just looking for a little
armchair escape while they'resitting in their home cozy with
no passport and no need toschlep their bags everywhere,
(48:57):
that they enjoy it as well.
I just really, you know, it's abook I wrote for my family, and
the fact that other people areenjoying it just is wonderful.
DanielaSM (49:05):
Yes, wonderful.
So I would like everybody tofollow you on social media, get
your book and read it, becauseit's just really amazing.
We will put that in the shownotes, thank you Well, margaret,
thank you so much for yourstory.
I really enjoy our conversation.
Margaret Bensfield Sulliv (49:19):
Thank you very much for having me.
Best of luck with the travelsand it's going to be great.
DanielaSM (49:24):
Yes, I wonder how I'm going to be when I come back
, so thank you again for yourtime.
Thank, I'm going to be when Icome back, so thank you again
for your time.
Thank you so much.
I hope you enjoyed today'sepisode.
I am Daniela and you arelistening to, because Everyone
has a Story.
Please take five seconds rightnow and think of somebody in
(49:45):
your life that may enjoy whatyou just heard, or someone that
has a story to be shared andpreserved.
When you think of that person,shoot them a text with the link
of this podcast.
This will allow the ordinarymagic to go further.
Join me next time for anotherstory conversation.
Thank you for listening.
Hasta pronto you.
Thank you.
Hi, I'm Daniela.
Welcome to my podcast.
Because Everyone has a Story,the place to give ordinary
people's stories the chance tobe shared and preserved.
Our stories become the languageof connections.
Let's enjoy it, connect andrelate because everyone has a
story and relate becauseeveryone has a story.
Welcome.
(00:25):
My guest is Margaret BenfieldSullivan, the author of
Following the Sound Tales andFails from.
A year around the world withour kids, and after nearly 15
years in communication and brandmarketing, she left her
corporate career and traveledwith her family.
So imagine leaving the hustleand bustle of New York City for
(00:48):
a year-long trip around theworld.
That's what Margaret and herfamily did.
I was super excited to meetMargaret, as, at the time of
this recording, my husband and Iwere planning to leave our
comfort zone to travel for sixmonths.
Now, as I post this episode, weare already two months into our
journey.
We didn't plan to travel aroundthe world.
(01:09):
Instead, we aim to visit lesserknown countries that fit our
budget.
It has been incredible to meetother nomadic individuals along
the way, people who live adifferent kind of life, breaking
free from routine, traditionalinstitutions and the
accumulation of possessions infavor of rich and meaningful
experiences.
(01:30):
What's fascinating is that,even with this shared way of
living, everyone brings theunique style to it.
There is no one-way fit.
All the commonality is, ofcourse, a willingness to be open
, to respect others and toembrace each moment as it comes.
Margaret and her husband hadthat experience, and not only.
(01:52):
They traveled the world for ayear.
They did it with two adorablelittle kids and nothing but
carry-on bags, which is quite achallenge.
She's here to shareunforgettable moments from their
incredible adventures anddiscuss how life changes when
they return home.
Margaret's story is aboutstepping far beyond their
(02:13):
comfort zone, discovering theworld as a family and finding
inspiration in everydayexperiences.
So let's enjoy her story.
Welcome, margaret, to the show.
Thank you for having me.
I am very excited that you'rehere.
I know you have a story and youhave written a book, so why do
you want to share your story?
I?
Margaret Bensfield Sulliv (02:32):
think the reason I want to share our
story, my family's story, isbecause we did something that at
the time felt very scary and itfelt like a big departure from
our conventional lives and wetook a big risk and we were not
the kind of people you wouldexpect to do something like that
, or at least I felt that wayabout myself.
And then when we did it, whichwas take a big trip around the
(02:54):
world, it's something that wecan say we accomplished.
We did hard things, we are ableto do that and it's a point of
pride for our family, and I justfeel like it's exciting to get
to tell other people who may bewondering what it might be like
or asking what if, if we took anadventure, if we took a risk in
life, what might happen.
So if we can do it, anyone can,and I feel like that's a story
(03:15):
worth sharing.
DanielaSM (03:16):
Yes, you're right.
I love that you're sharing that.
It's true.
We all need to share storieslike that, and so, before we get
into this story, have you doneanything else as scary as that
since you did that?
Margaret Bensfield Sulliva (03:29):
That was our big, big moment.
But you know, we can measureour lives in like before and
after that moment, and eversince then we've always said,
well, if we could do that, thenwe can definitely do fill in the
blank.
So it's given us a bravery andconfidence that we did not have
before.
We travel a lot still, so thiswas a travel story and we have
(03:50):
incorporated travel into everypossible moment of our lives
since.
DanielaSM (03:53):
Wonderful.
So when does your story startFor the purposes of this podcast
.
Margaret Bensfield Sullivan (03:59):
The story begins in 2017, when my
husband and I are happilymarried.
We have two small children,three and five years old.
We live in New York City.
Things are humming along.
We've got great jobs, greatcareers.
He has started a softwarecompany and I'm a partner at a
marketing and PR agency whereI've been for a long time.
(04:19):
The kids are in a great school,we have a lovely home, we have
a wonderful group of friends, wehave a dog, we have a car.
Life is exactly where wethought we needed to be, and we
didn't ask any questions aboutwhether or not we should be
doing anything differently.
Traveled a lot for my job inthese days, and so it wasn't
(04:42):
unusual for me to take such along trip, far away trip.
But what was different aboutthis trip was that I had one of
these epiphanies, an aha momentin my travels, because I stepped
off the treadmill, because Igot out of my bubble and away
from my children, away from mydesk at work in New York City,
and kind of looked up and aroundat Tanzania.
(05:05):
I was surrounded by differentpeople.
It was a conference.
Everyone was bringing some new,interesting ideas to the table
and discussion about worldpolitics or developments in
science.
This was a TED conference thatI went to that was one of my
clients at the time and therewas something about being there
in that moment where I justthought wait a second.
There is so much happening outhere in the world that I am just
(05:26):
I've had my head down in NewYork and been so focused on my
little life and my little job.
Everything seemed little.
All of a sudden when I realizedthere's so much out here going
on and suddenly I thought tomyself what do we need to do as
a family to take advantage of it, to see it all.
And I came home from thatadventure I mean, it was only
four days, but it really changedmy whole perspective on what
(05:48):
our family needed to be doing.
I just felt like we needed toopen our eyes to what was out
there.
So I pitched an idea to myhusband that I cooked up on the
flight home, and it wasbasically let's quit our jobs,
take our kids out of school,give up our apartment, pack our
bags and hit the road for a yeartraveling and learning as much
about the world as we possiblycan, while we still have the
chance.
DanielaSM (06:09):
Wow, what an incredible situation.
You were four days only toTanzania from New York.
Margaret Bensfield Sullivan (06:15):
Oh, maybe it was five.
I mean a very long way to go.
Wow, I know that Three flightsto get there and back, but
actually I credit those longflights with helping me sit with
the idea.
A funny story actually is thatone of those flights home the
first one really had a veryspecific moment that helped
trigger this and inspire thisidea, which is that the plane
(06:38):
from Arusha, tanzania, to Dar esSalaam that was making a
stopover in Zanzibar.
I sat down in my seat and on theplane boarded an American
family that looked a lot likemine, with kids a little bit
older.
At the time and I thought, hmm,that's interesting.
They're here in the middle ofthe school year, they're
traveling, it seems like they'reon vacation.
They came and they sat behindme and I eavesdropped on them
(07:00):
the whole flight as they weredoing their math workbooks and
talking about where they weregoing next.
And they got off at Zanzibarand I watched them out the
window walk across the tarmacand I just thought this feels
like a sign.
You know this American familyin the middle of the school year
.
How are they pulling this off?
People are doing this.
And then it just inspired me tothink, oh, maybe we could do
something similar.
(07:20):
Maybe these people are taking asabbatical or a family gap year
?
DanielaSM (07:24):
do something similar .
Maybe these people are taking asabbatical or a family gap year
.
Wow, interesting part of thestory.
Yes, I'm glad I asked that.
When you say that you went toTanzania and you saw, oh my God,
my life is little, so you know,like expecting compared with
everything, traveling it changedthat perspective.
Margaret Bensfield Sullivan (07:40):
In some ways, travel makes you feel
even smaller.
Yeah, exactly that's what I wassaying.
It's not a bad thing.
I think it's a wonderful thing.
I think, from a parentingperspective alone, you realize
the things that you thought wereso important to do.
As a parent, you know get yourkid into the right school or
doing the right activities, orbefriending these people.
None of that, when you takeinto consideration all the
(08:03):
people that you met and themillions of people who are
clearly doing life differentlythan we think we need to be
doing it at home.
All of that puts everything inperspective and allowed us to
come home and look at our ownpriorities and think, oh, none
of those things that we caredabout before actually matter,
because you can do life incountless, infinite numbers of
ways and still have theopportunity to be fulfilled or
(08:27):
happy or lead a meaningful life.
It doesn't have to be the waywe thought we needed to do it.
DanielaSM (08:32):
Wow, you kids were little, so three and five.
Margaret Bensfield Sulli (08:34):
That's when the idea happened and then
.
So I came home, pitched theidea to my husband and we say it
took us about eight months towork up the courage to say yes
to the idea and another eightmonths to work up the courage to
say yes to the idea and anothereight months to get out the
door.
So by the time we left, thechildren were four and six, and
they turned five and sevenduring the course of the travel
year.
DanielaSM (08:53):
And do you see that they change from the beginning
to when they came back withtheir friends and the attitude?
Margaret Bensfield S (08:59):
Absolutely .
I mean they were, of course,young, but we joked that my son,
who started the year withhiding under my skirt and with a
buzz cut, ended the year withshaggy hair, wearing tropical
shirts and like a man of theworld who had the confidence to
go up and talk to anybody.
So we always joke that he wentfrom stroller to swagger in one
(09:21):
year.
But yeah, they came back with alot of new traits.
I would say they were verychatty, very comfortable with
new people, especially grownups.
I mean it was a year where theymet new grownups every day and
they perfected their small talkin some ways what their names
are, where they're from, wherethey're traveling, what their
favorite countries are.
(09:42):
They had their whole shtickdown and I think that that
confidence and comfort levelit's still there.
But it's hard to say now.
They're older.
They're, you know, they're 10and 12 today.
So it's hard to say what it wasabout the trip that shaped them
, or what's nature versusnurture.
I think that there are a lot ofways.
(10:02):
I mean it's impossible for thisexperience not to have shaped
them into who they are.
DanielaSM (10:06):
Yeah, that's amazing , that's great, Wonderful.
Then you pitched the idea, youtook off and you travel for a
year.
I know you wrote a book, butbefore we go to the book, the
book calls Following the Sun.
Because you're following thesun, that's where you chose to
go to places.
Margaret Bensfield Sullivan (10:22):
It was.
I mean, the title has multiplemeanings, but really that is the
way that we organized ouritinerary, and it was when it
was overwhelming to look at aworld map and think we have a
year, where could we go?
How are we going to do this?
Where do we start?
The first concept was okay,let's stick to warm weather or
seasonal warm weather, and thatway we plotted our general path
(10:44):
around the world.
So we left in January of 2019.
And so we headed straight downto South America.
We hit the summer there, andthen we went over to Africa
still summer there and then upto the Middle East and then
Europe for the European summer,and that's when we spent the
second half of the year.
We left there for Asia and thenEurope for the European summer,
(11:04):
and that's when we spent thesecond half of the year.
We left there for Asia, andthen Australia, new Zealand and
home via Japan and Hawaii.
So it was one year followingthe sun.
Our only real cold weather waswinter in Japan.
We spent Christmas in Tokyo.
DanielaSM (11:18):
That's cool.
Wow, that's amazing.
What happened when you weregoing to nearly finish the year?
Were you sad about it?
Margaret Bensfield Sulliv (11:49):
Would you want it to continue or were
you like, okay, we reallystarted savoring our lasts.
You know, last beach, last hotel, last rental car, last, you
know, we just every last lastMonday morning.
And Monday mornings were reallyspecial for us that year because
, as people who had workedreally hard to have a free
(12:09):
Monday morning where you justwake up and all you have on the
schedule that day is to spend itwith your family adventuring
and exploring a new part of theworld, that was exciting.
So we, we savored everythingand by the time we got to the
end, we were ready and I wouldsay an important tip here is
that we actually changed ouritinerary to have we were going
to be skiing our last week andwe decided, no, we need a soft
(12:33):
landing, we need a last weekwhere we're together as a family
, chill, rehashing the memories,recounting our inside jokes and
our favorite moments anddiscussing what we're going to
be looking forward to most abouthome.
So we changed it to Hawaii andwe had a wonderful week just as
a family, with that reallypeaceful wind down week of
(12:56):
discussion and reflection andpreparing to go back into our
old lives Wonderful, and wereyou staying in Airbnbs?
DanielaSM (13:03):
We?
Margaret Bensfield Sullivan (13:04):
did do a lot of Airbnbs.
When we first pictured the year,we imagined mostly Airbnbs, you
know, kind of living likelocals everywhere we went, and
what ended up happening isbecause we had so many stops we
did 29 countries across sixcontinents we ended up staying
in a lot of hotels and I wasworried about that at first.
We'd booked a lot of hotels.
I thought this isn't a veryauthentic experience, but it
(13:26):
turns out that for us at least,the experience wasn't made
authentic or not by where westayed.
It was more about the peoplethat we met in the moment, like
going out of our way to befriendstrangers and talk to people
during our day led to so manyexciting, you know invitations
(13:47):
to a barbecue at somebody'shouse or a recommendation for a
restaurant we never would havefound on our own.
Those kinds of moments werewhat made it authentic for us.
And then to be able to comehome to a maid bed and you know
we just had somewhere to sleepthat night that a lot of the
hotels that we did pick wereactually independently owned,
and so we got to know the ownersand you know there was a.
(14:08):
There was a bit of localcontact there as well, but we
stayed in more hotels than Ithought we would.
DanielaSM (14:13):
But so so you went to strangers, or let's talk to
him and ask them questions.
Margaret Bensfield Sullivan (14:18):
We did and we are.
So that's not our nature.
Our nature, you know, we're NewYorkers, you keep your head
down and we're a bit introvertedtoo, so that's not our
inclination at all to talk tostrangers.
But we recognize that if wewere going to do this, we were
going to do it the right way andwe knew that meant getting to
know local people.
So not only did we just putaside our fears of an
(14:41):
embarrassment andself-consciousness about talking
to people, so yes, we wouldtalk to somebody on the bus.
We'd ask someone for directions, We'd say we don't know
anything in this neighborhood.
Do you know a place where wecould get breakfast?
We did that a lot.
But we'd also put out a call onsocial media or to our friends
and say does anyone know anybodyin Santiago, Chile or Shanghai?
And people would my cousinlives there, my nephew's Nobody
(15:02):
in Santiago, Chile or Shanghai,and people would my cousin lives
there, my nephew's friend'shairdresser.
And we would seize on thoseanswers.
We'd track the people down andwe were always surprised that
the people we looked up werelike, yeah, sure, come over or
let's meet up or let's have aplay date with our kids at the
playground.
Sometimes I wondered if wewould be so gracious to other
(15:25):
people visiting New York, but ofcourse we are now and always
will be, because we're eternallygrateful for those encounters.
That's what gave us the realfeeling of a place.
DanielaSM (15:34):
Of course, yes, you see, that's the way I am always.
Our house is always open forpeople.
If we travel, I would lovepeople to help me.
I know that's wonderful openfor people.
If we travel, I would lovepeople to help me.
I know that's wonderful,wonderful that you have that
experience.
And which country or continentdo you feel that they welcome
your kids more than others?
Margaret Bensfield Sulli (15:52):
That's a great question.
I would say there's no doubtthat the South American
countries we went to were SouthAmerica and Spain were the most
kid obsessed places we went and,really interestingly, the only
places we went where there werespecial lines for families,
special lines and discounts andperks and all the things.
If you had little kids with you, and not only that, but you
(16:15):
could just feel the love.
Everything was easier becausewe had these little adorable
people with us, and my son inparticular, who was four.
He would get his hair ruffledeverywhere we went.
Men would pick him up and throwhim in the air.
We'd walk by the fruit standand people would just hand out
fruit to us.
I mean, it was like this veryloving experience, I would say
(16:37):
there and Southeast Asia,especially with men, because I
think that the culture in a lotof countries we went to is where
the retired grandpa is finallygetting to experience like the
joy of being a grandfather andhaving his own grandkids around.
We saw a lot of love fromgrandpas around the world, I
would say, and which was reallylike heartening and funny to see
(17:01):
.
It's as if we always joke that.
It's as if grown men have beenstanding around waiting to play
all day, like they just want tokick a soccer ball.
They want to throw a stuffedanimal back and forth in the air
, which was something we sawwith a guy in Egypt, and he and
my son were just having the besttime throwing this.
You just never know, but havingkids along certainly made
everything easier.
DanielaSM (17:21):
Yes, I feel like, especially when we went to
Mexico, it was always likepeople were in love with your
kids and they were also friendly.
So, yes, that's awesome.
Let's talk about your book.
How did that come about?
Margaret Bensfield Su (17:33):
Naturally , people have a lot of questions
about what we did, our friendsand then people.
We kept a little Instagramaccount throughout the year and
the more people who startedfollowing, the more curious they
became, and it was reallyinteresting to see how people
were.
They wanted to understand how,how do you do laundry?
What happens when you get sick?
How are you only carryingtravel size?
(17:54):
Carry on bags?
How are you staying with yourkids around all the time?
What about homeschooling?
It was like a lot of the samequestions over and over, and
then people wanting to knowabout the places we went.
You went to Mongolia.
What was that like?
So we took very meticulous notes.
I had a daily blog that myhusband and I alternated days
writing funny quotes where wewent, little observations about
(18:16):
the places we visited.
And when I reviewed all of thatand then consider the number of
questions we were getting, Ijust thought I wonder if there's
a book here.
I wonder if I could put allthis together and if it's just
for me and my family, then Iwill have created a lovely
record, but if it can be usefulto someone else, like I would
have killed for this book whenwe were in the planning stages
(18:36):
of our year, then all the better, and so I spent the pandemic
writing the book.
And it turns out writing a bookis hard.
I'd never done that before.
I thought it would be like acouple of months I got this, but
it took several years and butit was such a joy and I love the
response that it's getting.
DanielaSM (18:54):
Going back to the luggage thing, I saw some
pictures and you only had handluggage.
How do you manage that for ayear?
I?
Margaret Bensfield Sulliva (19:01):
know .
Well, it helped that we were inwarm weather only.
I would say that we had about aweek's worth of clothing, at
all times with extra underwear.
That was somebody's advice andit was the right advice have
lots of underwear.
But really, just from speakingfor myself, I only needed one
dress.
I only needed one bathing suit,one workout outfit, one
(19:23):
nightgown.
I only needed one bathing suit,one workout outfit, one
nightgown.
You think you need a bunch oflooks.
Why?
This was the year of suspendingvanity.
I like to say this was not theyear to look beautiful.
I had no one to impress.
We were going to a new placeevery three days.
I could wear the same thing allthe time, and same with the
kids.
They were small too, so theirclothes fit nicely in a carry-on
bag and, believe it or not,when we came home, our bags were
(19:44):
lighter than when we left.
We just really discovered howlittle we need, and that has
translated into our life today,where we are pretty minimalist.
We got rid of a lot of clutter,both figuratively and literally
speaking.
So now when we travel, we onlytravel with carry-on bags.
We love our Briggs and Rileybags.
(20:04):
We got two new ones and they'reeven smaller than the ones we
had before, and my son, daughterand I just took a trip for a
week and all three of us went inone of those carry-on roller
bags.
So we like to pack light.
DanielaSM (20:17):
So who gave you the advice?
Why the most underwear?
Margaret Bensfield Sulliva (20:23):
It's like, if you're going to
overpack anything, just makesure you have enough underwear.
And it's like, oh, you know, ifwe couldn't get to the
laundromat that day, the onething you really, really want is
clean underwear, so we alwayshad extra.
DanielaSM (20:34):
Yes, I wonder because you know we are going to
travel soon, in only six months, but I keep thinking, oh, I
need these and I need that.
And I'm like, oh my God, theday that I'm going to have to
pack is going to be major.
We didn't think that we need todo hand luggage.
We thought like we're going tobring a whole bag, but then I'm
starting to think, oh my God,what if it gets lost?
Margaret Bensfield Sulliva (20:54):
Yeah , I think for us it depends on
the itinerary.
We were going to so many placesthat the concept of lugging
around huge suitcases felt sodaunting.
The trip itself was hard enough.
Like, let's not add to thatchallenge and the difficulty
level by having a bunch of junkwith us as well.
Keep it simple.
DanielaSM (21:12):
I know.
But then the concept of youimmediately thinking I need one
dress, one exercise, you knowlike it's just really not easy,
not easy.
Margaret Bensfield Sullivan (21:21):
And so for me, even though we had
this concept, I still had threedresses, three bathing suits,
and I crammed it all in there,and it only took a couple of
weeks for me to realize this wasridiculous and I don't need
this stuff.
And so that's when I was ableto totally let go.
I didn't totally start there,but I realized pretty quickly
(21:43):
that I did not need it and itwas just more trouble than it
was worth.
DanielaSM (21:46):
You were holding yourself from buying anything
when you were traveling.
Oh, that's cute, but we don'tneed it.
Margaret Bensfield Sullivan (21:51):
We only bought things if we felt
like we could never find it athome.
It was truly special and it wassomething that we wanted as a
memory for our trip.
As a memory for our trip, andan example would be we were in
Copenhagen and I didn't do a lotof shopping that year unless it
was to replace t-shirts orwhatever.
But I saw a beautiful dress bya Danish designer and it fit
(22:14):
perfectly and beautiful colors,and I just thought I'm going to
get this.
It's a treat and I'll alwaysremember Copenhagen and this
designer.
I still have it.
It's in my closet.
So when we came across thingslike that, a piece of art, when
we were in the Amazon rainforest, our guide whittled a blow gun
and darts for my children and wesaved that and we have it
(22:35):
hanging on our wall.
Things like that that werereally special.
We would collect them.
We had a little extra tote bagfor our souvenirs like that.
When the tote was full, we knewit was time to go to a DHL.
We'd pack up a bag, ship it tomy parents' house and when we
came home at the end of the yearwe had a nice little pile of
treasures that were like thisexciting little mountain of
(22:57):
things that were waiting for usat home, that decorate our
apartment now.
And one of the reasons we didthis is because I spoke to a
family that was travelingsimilarly to the way we did.
They had done it a few yearsbefore and they said their
biggest regret was that theydidn't buy souvenirs because
they thought it would be toomuch of a burden, too expensive,
to ship and all of this.
They didn't need it.
And then they said you know,all these years later, we don't
(23:19):
have anything tangible for ourmemories.
We just don't have anything.
We regret that.
So I just thought we're notgoing to buy anything and
everything, but if it's reallyspecial, we'll get it.
DanielaSM (23:28):
Interesting, because you know, I feel like you
always do things like this oh,this is really special, and at
the end you bring it home, butit's not.
It's the same as taking a lotof pictures.
I mean, I do think that we needto take pictures because you
forget things, but sometimes youwaste time taking a picture you
forgot to look with your owneyes.
Sometimes it will be in yourhead way better than when you
(23:50):
take the picture.
That's true.
Margaret Bensfield Sulli (23:52):
That's true, Although maybe it's
because we have kids, but I feellike our photos keep it all
alive.
If we didn't have these photos,I'm not sure they would
remember nearly as much.
I know they don't remembernearly as much as we do my
husband and I do.
So the photos.
There's a balance.
You've got to get the greatphoto and then stop, put it all
(24:12):
away and just savor the moment,Absolutely.
DanielaSM (24:14):
Yes, you're right, the balance we have to Google
home and so every time Googleshow pictures and I'm like, oh,
when we went there?
Oh, we went there, you know.
So it is really good.
The other part is to see themlittle, and now they're 24 and
21 and I'm always like, oh, Imiss that time.
So in a way it makes me sadmost of the time because I'm
(24:36):
like they're never going to belittle again and that's so cute.
I'm glad we have these pictures.
Margaret Bensfield Sul (24:41):
Pictures are important, especially when
the kids are in them, because Ifeel like my kids now know this
story of our family very well,like this is who we are, this is
what we did, this is the familynarrative and so those photos
even if they don't remember thedetails of the trip, they know
that this is what we stand forand, like they have they,
(25:01):
they've totally internalizedthat thanks to the pictures.
DanielaSM (25:05):
Yes, and so how was it coming back after a year?
Margaret Bensfield Sullivan (25:10):
I would say the immediate return
was tricky because, especiallyfor my children they were, you
know the trip represented such alarge portion of their lives
that they barely remembered whatit was like before.
So they went from a year whereevery day was new.
They staying somewhere, new,new languages, new this, where
(25:31):
are we going tomorrow?
What's happening tomorrow?
And there was always adifferent answer to coming back
to New York, going back to theirschool, and they stopped asking
what are we doing tomorrow?
Because every day was the sameand that did not sit well with
them at first.
Not only was the routinesomething they weren't used to,
but they were separated fromtheir parents, they were
(25:52):
separated from each other, andthat was very hard, I would say.
For that first two weeks backat school, when they went into
kindergarten and second grade,they cried every morning and it
was really hard on us too.
We took a few weeks.
It was like this confusing,nowhere of in-betweenness is how
somebody described this momentof transition and change.
But like anything, you know, wesettled and we got back into
(26:13):
our habits, we got to see ourfriends and things started to
feel good again.
And then the pandemic happened.
So we went pretty much from ourreturn, with a little moment of
normal, into the pandemic andthen we were like everyone else.
You know questions aboutpandemic and having the moment
to be home together, just thefour of us, was like an extended
(26:47):
pause and way to keep thetraditions of our trip going and
continue to reflect oneverything that we learned and
make a decision to write a book.
It was that it was not what weexpected, but it was okay.
DanielaSM (27:02):
Well, I can see the perfect timing to decide to go
from January to January,Otherwise I'm going to return.
And secondly, that, yes, youwere separated and then you come
back and you already knew howto be together for so long that
for you, maybe during thepandemic you didn't have the
options of what are we doingtomorrow, but you still knew how
(27:24):
to work together, the four ofyou, which maybe some of your
friends wouldn't have had.
Margaret Bensfield Sulliva (27:28):
That yeah, where people were going
crazy and cooped up with theirfamily around all the time.
That was our preferred state atthat point, you know, we were
fine with it.
We joked that people would say,oh, you're already used to
homeschooling.
Well, you know, the kids doingschool with their teacher on
(27:52):
Zoom was a lot easier than mommyand daddy creating a curriculum
and forcing them to do theirschoolwork.
I mean, it was more likeproctoring during COVID, and so
your friends.
DanielaSM (27:57):
They were calling you for advice in that moment,
when you already knew how to bewith your family at all times.
Margaret Bensfield Sullivan (28:03):
Yes for sure, and especially with
the school.
You know just.
People always said how did youdo this?
My kid doesn't want to learnfrom me.
They don't want to listen to mewhen I'm printing out the
worksheets.
And, of course, homeschoolingwas one of the big struggles of
our year.
You'd asked six months into theyear how it was going for us.
We would have said terrible.
But it turns out that withrepetition and consistency the
(28:26):
kids just got with the programand we eventually learned how to
do it.
What was helpful and the lessonthat we passed on to our
friends during the pandemic isthat a school day when really
boiled down to the academics isquite short compared to the six
hours they're in the building.
There's a lot of transition andrecess and lunch and whatever
Academics.
For their age it was 30 minutesmath, 30 minutes writing, 30
(28:48):
minutes reading every day.
Done so with knowing that it'sjust 90 minutes and you can bang
it out in the morning and bedone, was reassuring to people
and effective.
DanielaSM (28:58):
Yes, so you were doing that.
You had a routine where youwere traveling.
Margaret Bensfield Sullivan (29:07):
Yes , wake up in the morning, have
breakfast, knock out ourschooling first thing.
I would teach my daughter, myhusband taught my son.
At first we tried to do iteveryone together and that did
not work.
So we learned separate rooms,separate paths.
We would do our 90 minutes withlittle stretching breaks in
between, and then it waslunchtime and that would be the
end of school.
So we would have our lunch andset out for the afternoon on
some adventure, to explorewherever we were visiting, and
(29:29):
sometimes that meant aplayground, sometimes that meant
a market, other times it was atour or, you know, a museum.
But every day it lookeddifferent.
But that was more or less howwe did it and we did school
every day that we were notflying somewhere.
So, even if it was Sunday, evenif it was Easter, even, you
know, we did not stop for aweekend.
(29:50):
We didn't know the differencebetween Monday and Sunday anyway
on the road.
So we, if we were not flying,we were doing school that day.
DanielaSM (29:59):
And they learned to give in to that.
So it wasn't really five days aweek, because you could have
been seven in a row.
Margaret Bensfield Sulliv (30:04):
Right , right, okay, okay yes, yeah,
um, it rarely was, because wedid fly so much.
Um.
And then there were times whenwe were in the middle east where
we had back-to-back touring,you know, we were seeing luxor
and aswan and cairo and we hadtemple tours starting at dawn.
You had to wake up first thingbecause the heat was so bad.
So on days like that we justsaid you know, this is school
(30:27):
and um, it is cool that is thebest school they can have,
really.
DanielaSM (30:33):
Yeah, there's a term .
Margaret Bensfield Sulliva (30:34):
It's world schooling and, believe it
or not, there's a wholecommunity out there of world
schoolers, people who do what wedid, but in a permanent state.
There are nomadic families thatare just traveling the world
and, yes, they do some math and,yes, they have their reading
requirements, but it's reallyabout being out in the world and
(30:54):
learning and I'm fascinated bythis niche of people.
They're really their kids arefascinating.
They're doing something right.
DanielaSM (31:02):
Yes, that is something that I'm fascinated
about too.
I will say that the onlydisadvantage is that, if you
ever settle, or if you ever bein one place, that you will
always feel a stranger, like youdon't belong to anywhere
because you belong everywhere.
You don't have to be a nomad,and that happens.
People who are mixed cultureslive in different countries, and
(31:22):
I will be one of those, becausewe all need a sense of
belonging and that sometimes ismissing.
I think that's one of thedisadvantages, I agree.
Margaret Bensfield Sullivan (31:31):
In fact, when we thought we have a
year to do something, whatshould it be?
One of the thoughts was shouldwe move abroad and live
somewhere for a year?
And I had done that.
I lived in France for threeyears before I had kids and I
just thought I don't love thatbecause you're never going to be
fully accepted in a place andthen you feel disconnected to
where, accepted in a place andthen you feel disconnected to
(31:52):
where.
So I've done that.
It can be great, but I wasready to just go, go, go.
Another thing I'll say about thedisadvantage of the world.
Schooling constant, nomadic isa theme that I see all the time
in these online discussiongroups of families is it's great
until the kids are about 13, 14, 15 and suddenly you see
parents saying my kids reallywant to come home and be settled
and go to a school and makefriends.
What do I do?
(32:13):
And oh yeah, me too.
That happened when my daughterturned 13.
So there is like that middleschool age where kids are
craving community and in oneplace, and I see it with my own
kids.
DanielaSM (32:24):
And also a reason why going to high school is not
really necessarily to learn, oreven universities for the
connections that you make.
My husband for him, was likethe most important, that the
kids will have the school yearsin one place.
Well, interesting.
And so you met a lot of nomadicfamilies then.
Margaret Bensfield Sullivan (32:41):
I have met them in writing this
book.
Well, I was connected to anumber of people in the lead up
to the book because and which?
What helped inspire it?
Just oh, I know a family that'sthinking of doing what you did.
Could I put you in touch withthem?
And I started to write thatsame email over and over for
different people.
I just thought this might be abook.
But yeah, there is a communityout there and it fascinates me.
(33:04):
It really does.
We think we were brave doing itfor one year.
People who are doing it forfive, 10 years and up is
incredible.
DanielaSM (33:10):
But it doesn't fascinate.
Is it like making you thinkabout the future?
Margaret Bensfield Sullivan (33:15):
I mean, if it were up to me, we
probably would still be outthere, but I get that we needed
to come home, see some familyand settle back into a new, very
different version of a lifethat we decided that we wanted
to try to lead when we weretraveling.
We thought we have anopportunity to design a new kind
of life when we return, so thatwe don't go back into the same
(33:37):
habits and fall into the sameroutines where you're just on
this treadmill and you look upone day and your kids are going
to college.
Let's not do that.
Let's be more purposeful withour time.
Claim our time only, spend thattime doing the things that we
love, with the people that welove, preferably outside, and
doing new things all the time.
(33:58):
So we just there were so manylessons that we learned from the
trip that we have nowincorporated into our daily
lives, which is why, like I said, we just can measure our lives
in the before and after of thatexperience.
DanielaSM (34:11):
Did you lose friends when you came back?
Or did you lose it in the sensethat you'll say, okay, maybe I
don't want to hang around withthem.
You're more selective.
Margaret Bensfield Sullivan (34:21):
No, but I would say that we've
really focused on theconnections that we want to
nurture and grow and those arethe ones where we've put all of
our effort and we spend moretime.
I would say if there's anopportunity to oh, maybe we
could go see the grandparentsfor this, or not.
We're kind of busy that weekend.
(34:42):
We always say let's just go doit.
We are always making the mostof time with the people we
really do want to spend timewith, like family and, of course
, our dear friends, who, many ofthem, don't live in New York
anymore post-pandemic but wewill always make an effort to go
visit and we're those peoplewho are going to say don't
invite us, because we will showup, we're going to find you.
DanielaSM (35:03):
And I agree with that, and I wonder sometimes if
that makes you kind ofclose-minded in the sense that,
okay, you are saying these arethe people that I value the most
and then you're not lettingpeople in.
Do you feel that that could bethe case?
Margaret Bensfield Sullivan (35:18):
No, I think that we have had a
complete shift in the way thatwe view the people that we meet,
and so new people are like, areso excited about.
We are more outgoing than we'veever been in our lives.
Our kids started a new schoollast year.
We jumped right in.
We've met everyone in thecommunity.
We've gotten to know all kindsof people through different
activities and interests thathave taken hold in the time
(35:40):
after our trip.
So we are more open to peoplethan we ever ever were before.
And you know, we're also thefirst people to walk up to
anyone on the street who seems alittle bit lost or like they
need help.
You know we're going to bethose friendly, outgoing people
always, so I think it changed usin a huge way in that regard.
DanielaSM (35:58):
Wonderful and it was not difficult to come back and
find jobs.
Did you change what you'redoing?
Besides that, you wrote a book.
Margaret Bensfield Sulliva (36:06):
Like I said, the book took a long
time.
So I did spend most of my timeduring the pandemic writing the
book.
My husband took his timefinding a job.
He had a software companybefore that got acquired.
He was like I'm not going tojump right into something that
is going to suck all my time upand where I'm just constantly
traveling or constantly at theoffice.
And he did.
He found a job that where hefeels like he gets to be
(36:27):
creative, he owns his time, heis building something new, but
without the pressure of the jobthat he had before.
And as for me, and once Ifinished this book, I've been
focusing on a far more creativepath, maybe in some ways what I
should have been doing all along, which is illustrating and
photography.
So I'm very excited.
I mean, that does feel scary.
(36:47):
You talked about things thatare scary or risky.
That we've done since we'vereturned, and to me, not going
back to a corporate job was likecan I do this?
And I'm trying.
So it's been you know the nextadventure.
But no, we didn't necessarilygo back to the same kinds of
jobs.
DanielaSM (37:03):
Yes, I saw your illustrations on your website.
They're very cute, so, butthere was not a lot, so what is
it that you're doing exactlywith them?
Margaret Bensfield Sulliva (37:09):
Well , I have a lot of private
commissions and I've beenworking on book illustrations
and editorial work for againlike in a private capacity, so
that's been humming along.
But I spent the last.
The book came out a couplemonths ago and I've just spent
the spring and summer talkingabout the book, giving talks,
doing publicity, and so that hastaken up a lot of time.
DanielaSM (37:29):
Interesting.
So when do you learn thisillustration?
Margaret Bensfield Sullivan (37:32):
I feel like I was always the kid
in class who could draw when Iwas little, and then I've just
taken classes for many, manyyears and it's always been my
passion and hobby.
But this is a chance.
Now I'm getting piecespublished and people are
contacting me for work, which isexciting and scary, but
continuing to take the classesand do the work and see where it
(37:56):
takes me.
DanielaSM (37:56):
Yeah, super creative , it's really beautiful.
So, going back to your book, Iwant to know.
You said that your book titlehas a lot of meaning, so we got
the one, the first one, which isyou know you're traveling
around the sun.
And what are the other ones?
Margaret Bensfield Sulliva (38:10):
Well , there's this great moment in
our year where I was sitting inIndonesia.
My son had just gotten out ofthe pool, it was the end of the
day, he was wrapped in a toweland I was cooking dinner.
We were at an Airbnb, the sunwas setting and the Beatles song
Follow the Sun came on.
We were listening to some music.
(38:31):
I'm not going to get the lyricstotally right, but they're
quite poignant, they're.
You know, tomorrow may rain, sofor now I'll follow the sun
while we're listening to it.
You know it's already kind of amoving and meaningful song.
But my son, who was five at thetime, said we're following the
sun, and I just like immediatelygot tears in my eyes because I
thought yeah, we are.
And not only are we.
You know, he's just repeatingwhat he's heard his parents say
(38:53):
a million times about ouritinerary.
But for me it was like yes,we're following the sun.
There may be rain tomorrow.
There may be pain, there may be, you know, hard times ahead,
but like, this is our momentwhere we are taking absolute
advantage of the time that wehave with our family to take an
adventure while we still havethe chance.
And so we're following the sunand we're doing what we can
today, because who knows whattomorrow holds.
DanielaSM (39:16):
How beautiful I feel like going with your kids.
It makes it like a way morememorable.
You know that when you don'thave the kids.
So that's amazing that you didthat.
It will happen again.
You said, you know, we now, ourkids are 21 and 24 and Ben and
I and I was me like five yearsago I started to think what if
we could do this?
And it took me a while to lookat the finances and then I
(39:40):
presented to my husband, I thinklike about 19 months ago, you
know, I didn't know how topresent it because I did mention
it before and he will be likeyou're crazy, that's not going
to happen.
And then I spoke to somefriends who said well, to
present it to your husband, youhave to talk this way.
So I did it.
It didn't take me very long.
I thought I have to prepare ameeting.
This is what's like talking tothe boss.
(40:01):
You have to have a presentationand a slideshow and everything.
And no, it was like I show afew numbers.
And he was like, oh, it'spossible.
And I was like, ok, we're doingthis.
So we have had the countdownand now we are at two months.
Ok, what's the plan?
The plan is we have a one wayticket and we're going to start
(40:22):
in Europe.
We're going to see family firstmy husband has family in
England, I have family in Spainand then we're going to Germany,
to the Balkan countries.
We'll see from there.
We don't have a plan, no, wejust have six months for sure.
So yes, it will happen againfor you.
Margaret Bensfield Sulli (40:40):
That's great Winging.
It was not the recipe forsuccess for us, but I can see
how it would be super excitingand especially without kids to
do it that way.
And my advice would be just toeverywhere you go, when you're
deciding where to go, next is totalk to the local people, like
where do you go on vacation orwhat you know?
I was just.
We went to Stockholm on our tripand we had a wonderful time.
(41:02):
But then I just went again thissummer with my daughter to
visit some Swedish Americanfriends.
We didn't know before, and whenwe were there he pointed to a
ship and he said oh, that's theferry that goes to Finland for
48 hours.
You just hop on and the ride isbeautiful.
You get there, you spend thenight in Helsinki and then you
come back and that's the trip.
And I never would have knownthat if he hadn't pointed out,
(41:22):
but apparently it's a thing thatthe Swedes like to do for a
weekend and I feel like you findthose little moments of like,
oh, we could pop over to Finlandfor the day or wherever you
know.
So talking to locals is great.
DanielaSM (41:34):
Yeah, yeah, we want to do slow travel and also we
are on a budget.
That's why we're pickingcountries that are not.
Yeah, don't go to Scandinavia.
I know, I know we know thatalready, so that's why we're
picking countries.
Also, I don't want to be whereeverybody goes all the time.
So you are advising, not doingit.
Margaret Bensfield Sullivan (41:58):
It was not for us, but we know
people who've done a year likewe did, exactly as you just
described, like get to onecountry and then start
researching where to next.
That adds an element ofexcitement, for sure.
And, like you, don't know anddon't?
We all want to have thatadventure.
That's like a real adventure.
That's a lot of fun.
You had a budget.
Yeah, we had a budget.
We just back of the envelope atthe outset just said what do we
(42:23):
roughly think we need per dayIf we're staying in a hotel or
an Airbnb?
And we wanted to account forflights and tours.
Obviously, the fewer stops onthe itinerary, the less
expensive it's going to be.
We wanted to see a lot, so itgrew and grew.
There was a funny moment in NewZealand when my son was five.
We were sitting at a pizzeriaand he had just learned the
concept of a pro-con list and hewrote pro in his big cray with
(42:47):
a big scrolling letters.
He said pros and cons of beinga grown up.
And in the pro column it saidget to do whatever you want.
And in the con column it saidhave to pay.
And we framed it because it'slike it's so funny.
It's pretty much summed up ouryear.
It was not our most fiscallyresponsible decision, but it was
(43:10):
the best investment in ourfamily we ever could have
possibly made, whenever we hadlittle panics about oh God, are
we spending too much?
This is crazy.
What are we doing?
We just remembered.
You know, unlike a lot ofthings like a mortgage or
tuition or whatever, this wasfinite.
This spending ended when we gothome and that was very
reassuring to us.
This was not something we'dshackled ourselves with until we
(43:35):
died.
This was like we're going tospend it, we're going to do it,
we're going to come home and getback to reality.
DanielaSM (43:41):
Yes, yes, and you know it's a risk, but the risk
is greater to stay in a placethat you always wonder if we
have done it right.
I think so, yeah, yes, and forme and my husband is also
thinking that intellectuallywe're not stimulated and that is
a bigger risk than staying in aconsistency.
You're getting a salary andyou're getting extended health,
(44:03):
and it's true.
I think that's right.
Yeah, so I'm glad that you wentand discovered all your
strengths and then illustrationand writing a book and all the
things that you're doing, andyou value all the things as well
.
There was, you will be in therat race.
Margaret Bensfield Sulliv (44:17):
Never I'd still be sitting at that
desk.
DanielaSM (44:20):
I want to be this time to reflect on what is it
that I want to do with the next45.
Margaret Bensfield Sullivan (44:36):
I know that's in.
My advice would be then to to,while you're away, write down as
much as possible, like everythought, every idea, every just
keep, keep it all in one place,and that those notes that I
accumulated over that year youstart reading through them again
and you're connecting dots andyou're thinking, oh, that
actually is a pattern I'm seeingwith the things that I care
about, or the things thatresonated with me, and you start
to notice like, oh, this iswhat I care about.
Those notes, those reflections,when gathered, I mean you're
(44:57):
going to forget about them ifyou don't write them down.
So for me, that was soimportant having those notes.
I treasure them.
DanielaSM (45:02):
Yes, and also I think it's wonderful the idea
that you said that you startconnecting the dots.
I wouldn't have thought of that.
Margaret Bensfield Sullivan (45:16):
But yes, you're right.
Well, I'll give you two liketactical examples.
One for the, for the journalthat he and I kept, we had a
Google doc that was open on bothof our phones during the day,
like if it was his day to writethe journal.
He'd just sort of jot down somelike a funny quote or an
interesting fact that we learned, or and just like, or the name
of the restaurant or something,and then at the end of the day
it was super easy for him tojust go in and crank out like a
couple of paragraphs about theday, and I would do the same.
(45:38):
So we had it all in this oneGoogle doc that we shared, okay.
And then for the connecting dots, I started keeping lists
because I realized, oh, you know, funny coincidences that happen
, amazing trees that weencountered, or like there were
these themes and motifs thatstarted to lend themselves
really well to lists.
Like times we were a hero.
You know, there was the time mykids chased a hat down the
(46:01):
beach that was blowing away, orthat we helped a lady in
Shanghai undo her dress from abicycle.
Like there were all theselittle moments that started to
accumulate into patterns andthemes that were some big, some
tiny.
It was really interesting.
So if you keep lists, runninglists, that would be my other
advice.
DanielaSM (46:18):
Interesting that you said do Google Docs?
I would have thought the oldway, like taking a notebook and
writing, but I think this yearit's much lighter.
Margaret Bensfield Sullivan (46:27):
I like the Google Docs because
it's searchable.
You know, you can always goback and say, well, didn't we
see something?
Or what happened in Cartagena,or whatever.
DanielaSM (46:34):
Okay, great advice, great advice, thank you.
And do you think that, becauseI have learned with the time,
now I am somebody who loveslearning and I realize that
there is no really one formulaand that really the advice from
everyone not necessarily helpsyou have you feel that?
Do you have the same feelingthat, yes, you can learn from
(46:57):
other people, but the truth, orpeople can learn from you, but
the truth is that everybody hastheir own formula they have to
figure out?
Margaret Bensfield S (47:04):
Absolutely .
And one of the like mantras thatI had when I was writing this
book was don't be prescriptive,don't tell people to do what you
did.
This is not a how-to book.
You are just sharing your storyand if people want to take from
it what they need, then theycan.
But this isn't a how-to.
(47:25):
This isn't a prescriptivereference book.
It is just our family's story,and so constantly keeping that
in mind was really helpful.
In telling the story.
I'm not like imposing on anyone.
This is the one and only way todo it, because this looks very,
very different for everybody.
DanielaSM (47:43):
Yes, and I'm glad that you mentioned that, because
I always notice that, too,people like to say you should do
these or you know the typicalthing tell your story and then
at the end, have a call toaction, which I hope is gone,
this concept of that.
Margaret Bensfield Sullivan (47:57):
I agree, because often what the
lesson at the end is not at allwhat I took away from the talk.
It's like that's not whatresonated.
You know, for me what I wrotedown in my notebook had
absolutely nothing to do withyour call to action.
DanielaSM (48:11):
Exactly, and so that's why I love people sharing
their story Not, you know, tonecessarily change people the
way they think, but something, alittle, one nugget, that will
change the way you think or addto your life.
That's the whole purpose ofeach story that we hear.
I love that.
So is there anything else thatcan do with this podcast,
(48:32):
anything else you want to share?
Margaret Bensfield Sullivan (48:34):
No, I just hope that anyone who is
either thinking about taking arisk or a departure from their
lives picks up this story andsees how one family approached
it, or if there is somebody whois just looking for a little
armchair escape while they'resitting in their home cozy with
no passport and no need toschlep their bags everywhere,
(48:57):
that they enjoy it as well.
I just really, you know, it's abook I wrote for my family, and
the fact that other people areenjoying it just is wonderful.
DanielaSM (49:05):
Yes, wonderful.
So I would like everybody tofollow you on social media, get
your book and read it, becauseit's just really amazing.
We will put that in the shownotes, thank you Well, margaret,
thank you so much for yourstory.
I really enjoy our conversation.
Margaret Bensfield Sulliv (49:19):
Thank you very much for having me.
Best of luck with the travelsand it's going to be great.
DanielaSM (49:24):
Yes, I wonder how I'm going to be when I come back
, so thank you again for yourtime.
Thank, I'm going to be when Icome back, so thank you again
for your time.
Thank you so much.
I hope you enjoyed today'sepisode.
I am Daniela and you arelistening to, because Everyone
has a Story.
Please take five seconds rightnow and think of somebody in
(49:45):
your life that may enjoy whatyou just heard, or someone that
has a story to be shared andpreserved.
When you think of that person,shoot them a text with the link
of this podcast.
This will allow the ordinarymagic to go further.
Join me next time for anotherstory conversation.
Thank you for listening.
Hasta pronto you.
Thank you.
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