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Something extraordinary is happening in Catholic churches across America and Europe—pews that once sat half-empty are filling with young faces. This isn't a momentary blip but a genuine spiritual awakening among a generation raised in moral relativism who are now seeking objective truth.
When these seekers arrive, they bring questions. One of the most common: "Didn't the Bible say that Jesus had brothers and sisters?
Deacon Frank joins Jack. Click Here to read his articles in the Catholic Exchange
Download the Claymore Battle Plan at jp2renew.org and go to the resources link. Join a movement of young men reclaiming territory for Christ by fostering a culture of authentic love. Your journey begins not with a label, but with the profound truth that you are made for more than this world can offer.
Read Jack's Article: Am I Gay? Discovering Your True Identity in Christ
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Are you still feeling that evil or do we conquer that
between the time you wrote it?
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Evil is, you know, working every day.
Jack, it is working.
What we have to do is recognizeit begins with a realization
that there is a truth.
It's an objective truth.
It's outside of us.
God has given us a conscienceto know the truth, to evaluate
the truth that exists outside ofus and apply that truth in the
(00:26):
everyday circumstances of life.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Anybody here create the universe?
Nobody, I said anybody here.
Write the story.
The big story we came into gavemeaning and purpose to all the
things that you see.
Ah, nobody.
Ah, that means you guys cameinto a story, didn't you?
And I said exactly what you'resaying, just in a little
different way.
And God gave us reason,intellect, free will, a
(00:51):
conscience to figure out what isthe truth.
Right, can you imagine thepride of us, deacon Frank, we're
sitting, we're one little dotin the universe and we think I
got the answer to this Exactly.
No wonder I'm depressed andanxious exactly welcome to the
(01:21):
become who you are podcast, aproduction of the John Paul II
Renewal Center.
I'm Jack Riggert, your host.
Today we're experiencingsomething that's
quasi-unexpected.
Here in the United States andacross the Atlantic, a Catholic
renaissance has taken place,mainly among young people.
In France, over 10,000 adultswere baptized this Easter, with
(01:41):
young people leading the charge.
I was just off the phone withsomeone that wanted me to come
down and speak in Tucson,arizona.
I'm outside of Chicago, aseverybody knows.
The woman on the phone saidTucson is very secular, but she
said her mass, the mass at herparish, is beginning to fill up
with young people.
So what's going on here?
Is this a passing fad orsomething that's really bigger
(02:03):
than that?
And we're sensing that it'sbigger than that, especially
here in the United States.
We have an apostolate within ourapostolate, called Claymore
Miletus Christi, to disciplethese young men.
When they come back into thechurch, when they're looking at
the church, we ask them what'sgoing on, what moved you?
And they said we're seeking thetruth, we're tired of moral
(02:24):
relativism, we're tired of theevil we see around us and in our
own hearts, with pornography,addictions and all kinds of
things.
And the second thing, once theyactually come into the church,
they start asking specificquestions.
One of those questions is thetruth concerning Mary's
perpetual virginity.
Didn't Jesus have brothers andsisters?
Didn't Mary have other children?
So, have brothers and sisters?
Didn't Mary have other children?
(02:45):
So those are the two thingswe're seeing so much this
presence of evil in the world,and also some specific questions
.
Well, we're lucky to have DeaconFrank here.
Deacon Frank is a permanentdeacon in the United States.
He's involved in theEucharistic revival.
He's been a deacon for 17 yearsand we're going to bring him on
(03:06):
to help wade through and helpthese young people that are
coming back into the church.
Deacon Frank, it's such apleasure to have you.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Jack, I appreciate the opportunity to talk to you.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
These young people, deacon, frank, are looking for
models, role models.
Not only role models that willshow them what having the faith
looks like, which is importantto them, but also role models
that can help them, disciplethem, mentor them as they come
into the faith.
They answer questions, and sothat's what we do on a lot of
these podcasts.
So, you know, we get wonderfulpeople like yourself, deacon, to
(03:38):
come in and help us throughthese things.
You know you wrote an article,so I want to talk about two of
your articles and I didn't warnyou ahead of time, so God bless
you.
If you can remember this, noproblem, but this was right
before the election, and youwrote about evil and you said
woe to those who call evil goodand good evil.
You talked about all kinds ofthings we talk about on the show
, which are so important, andwhat these young people see
(04:01):
abortion, these LBGTQ issues,the human trafficking, the
fentanyl epidemic.
You put it all in there thecrime we see on our streets, the
inflation that's mislabeled, asyou put it, as economic growth,
indoctrination, which we'veseen, this sexual indoctrination
especially, but the CRT, thecritical gender theories that
they're pushing on their kidsall the way into kindergarten,
(04:23):
you can't make this stuff up.
And then in the other articlewas the Truth Concerning Mary's
Perpetual Virginity, both in theCatholic Exchange.
Wonderful articles, deaconFrank.
So thank you for writing thosefirst of all.
Thank you, jack.
Are you still feeling that evilor do we conquer that between?
Speaker 2 (04:40):
the time you wrote it .
Evil is, you know, workingevery day Jack, and what we have
to do is recognize.
It begins with a realizationthat there is a truth.
It's an objective truth.
It's outside of us.
God has given us a conscienceto know the truth, to evaluate
the truth that exists outside ofus and apply that truth in the
(05:03):
everyday circumstances of life.
Okay, that's what our conscienceis, what the culture has done
over the last couple hundredyears is to deny objective truth
and replace it with subjectivetruth, which you know, I'm sure
we've all heard the expressionmy truth and your truth.
There is no my truth and yourtruth, there's only the truth,
(05:25):
right, and that truth is JesusChrist.
Okay, he said I am the way, thetruth and the life.
Okay, so what we have to do isrecognize first where the you
know to deal with the problem.
You have to identify what theproblem is before you can deal
with its many symptoms.
And the problem is we havedenied objective truth.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Yeah, Another way you know to say that is and you're
right on, of course is that whenwe're speaking to young people,
90 percent this was the studywas done, I think, about five or
six years ago.
At that time, high school andcollege students, 90 percent of
them would subscribe to moralrelativism.
(06:10):
Right, there is no truth, Right?
I think those numbers are alittle lower just because
they've seen the moral chaos, asyou even wrote in your article,
when you know there is asubjective truth.
Right, I like blue and you likegreen and I like fish and you
like steak, so there are thingslike that, but there's an there,
there's.
So there's subjective truthsthat we say, but objective truth
(06:32):
is something that we live out.
We feel this in our heart, youknow, and our hearts are made,
aren't they, Deacon Frank?
Absolutely I remember as a youngguy thinking what is the truth
of this thing?
You know, I grew up in a sexualrevolution.
I remember clearly in my heartthinking I need to know the
truth Exactly.
(06:54):
And you know, in addition tothe article you quoted about—
Woe to those who call evil goodand good evil yes.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
There's two others that I wrote earlier than that
that I think really get to thisissue.
The first one is what is trutha modern day Tower of Babel
story, and the second one iswhen history became legend and
legend became myth, and both ofthem deal with this same issue.
Okay, but only go in moredetail.
You know, the focus on thearticle that you're referencing
(07:22):
really dealt with the electionand how we had a very clear
choice to make, and I tried tomake that case as clear as
possible without being political.
But the groundwork for that wasdone in these other two
articles.
In the first one, which was, waswhat is truth the modern day
(07:44):
Tower of Babel story, I positthat you know, when God
basically confused people atBabel right and they couldn't
communicate with one another,that a lot of work that Satan
would have done to get them torebel against God went for
naught.
And you know Satan would havebegrudgingly looked at it and
(08:08):
said gee, that's something I canlearn from meaning confusing
language.
And that's what they've done byvirtue of introducing
subjective truth, because if wedon't have the same
understanding of what words mean, then we're not speaking the
same language.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
No, you're exactly right.
You know this abuse of languageis a big deal right now.
That's why you know, that's whythis use of these gender terms,
gender ideology, the pronouns.
You know people think well,what's wrong with just?
You know they them and you saywell because you're speaking of
one person.
And when you get into thosekinds of things, you know they
them and you say well, becauseyou're speaking of one person,
(08:46):
right, and when you get intothose kind of things, you know,
when you say a boy can become agirl, just because I think it in
my head, if I can swallow thatlie, you know that abusive
language, I'll swallow any lie,won't I?
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Right, and it can go even further than that, jack, in
that we could use the samewords, the exact same words, but
have two different meanings tothose same words, because of
subjective truth.
Okay, so what we have to do isrecognize that what this denial
of objective truth has done iscreate the belief in a
subjective truth, which resultsin chaos.
(09:20):
You know, god gave us objectivetruth for order, for there to
be order in the world.
You know, when we look at theworld, we look at nature.
Everything is order.
There is structure and order tothe world.
Yet when we can't even use thesame words and mean the same
things, what you're really goingfor is chaos, and that's really
(09:42):
what we suffer in the worldtoday.
We suffer a total breakdown oforder because we're not seeking
the truth, we're seeking our owndesires.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
You know what I've realized, and you hit on it just
a few minutes ago.
When I'm speaking about thetruth and somebody asks me what
is the truth, you know the truthis not a something.
The truth is a somebody.
Exactly His name is JesusChrist.
You know, you remember thosebands.
I don't know if you rememberthem, deacon Frank, it was many
years ago.
Those bands, what would Jesusdo Exactly?
(10:16):
I'll tell you what.
That's not a bad thing.
We ought to bring those bandsback.
I think you.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
I think you know, john, I worked for many years.
I was an executive director ofa law firm and on my desk was a
rock, shape of a rock, and on itwas those exact same words what
would Jesus do?
And I would look at that rockoccasionally and make sure that
I was doing things consistentwith what God's truth is.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Yes, people ask you know, how do I know Jesus exists
?
And you know all kinds ofquestions when they're coming
back into the church, right, andthere's all kinds of ways to
talk about that.
But truth, I just sometimes I'dsay you know, you got to walk
into the story and keep lookingat Jesus and asking you know,
what is the truth of my life?
What is the truth?
How should I act in thissituation?
(11:02):
And you'll start to find yourway through the closer you get
to Christ.
It's amazing.
I stopped trying to go downdifferent paths and trying to
massage this to people.
Now I just say it If you'reseeking the truth, let me give
you an example Go follow thatguy on the cross and you know
what it works.
It really works.
It's amazing.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Remember, in reading John's Gospel there's an
interaction between PontiusPilate and Jesus.
Yes, and Jesus says whoeverseeks the truth will hear my
voice.
Pontius Pilate said what istruth.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Yeah, what is truth?
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Pontius Pilate represents our culture today.
What is truth?
And what we have to do isrecognize we don't determine the
truth.
What we're to do is to use ourconscience to apply the
universal truth, the objectivetruth, to the everyday
circumstances of life.
And what is the truth?
(11:59):
It's what Jesus taught us okay,in the Gospels and so forth.
He taught us everything we needto know in order to live the
life of true discipleship.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
You know, when you're saying that, I just you know.
I was speaking to some youngpeople just recently and I asked
them.
I said you know, I don't reallyknow you.
I said anybody here?
Just to get to know you alittle bit?
Anybody here create theuniverse?
Nobody, I said anybody herewrite the story?
The big story we came into gavemeaning and purpose to all the
(12:31):
things that you see.
Ah, nobody.
Ah, that means you guys cameinto a story, didn't you?
And I said exactly what you'resaying, just in a little
different way.
And God gave us reason,intellect, free will, a
conscience to figure out what isthe truth.
Right, can you imagine thepride of us, deacon, frank,
(12:51):
we're sitting, we're one littledot in the universe and we think
I got the answer to thisExactly.
No wonder I'm depressed andanxious, exactly.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
You know there were two other articles, jack, that
relate to this.
It's really both of them dealwith science because, you know,
god gave us not only our faith,and there's a couple of things
that really stood out.
I wrote an article back in Ithink it was December of last
(13:33):
year about eight probabilitieswhat's the probability that a
person would randomly fulfilleight prophecies that Jesus
fulfilled?
Now, jesus didn't fulfill eight.
Let's talk about that.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
Let's talk about Now.
Jesus didn't fulfill eight.
Let's talk about that.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Let's talk about that .
Jesus didn't fulfill eight.
He fulfilled over 300prophecies.
Okay, and a scientist, a mathprofessor, along with 600 of his
students, did a class exerciseand the professor's name was Dr
(14:07):
Peter Stoner.
The class exercise took place inthe early 1950s and the
professor selected eight of theprophecies that Jesus fulfilled
and none of the more difficultones, like the resurrection from
the dead or the ascension intoheaven, which are prophecies in
the Old Testament that Jesusdoes fulfill, and the eight.
(14:30):
So they went about trying tocalculate the probabilities on
each of these eight preselectedOld Testament prophecies,
prophecies.
Once they did that, dr Stonerremoved the top you know the
odds on the extreme the top 10%and bottom 10% to average out
(14:51):
the 80%, and then theymultiplied the eight
calculations for 600 studentsand came up with an overall
probability.
What can you imagine?
What the odds that someonerandomly over the course of
history would fulfill thoseeight predetermined prophecies
(15:13):
contained in the Old Testament?
I'll tell you the odds one in ahundred quadrillion.
One in a hundred quadrillion,that's one with 17 zeros after
it.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
It's amazing, right it's amazing.
And that's eight, not 300 over300 do you have one or two uh
specific ones?
Speaker 2 (15:36):
one is of the eight you're talking about.
Yeah, that he was born, that hewould be born in bethlehem.
Another, uh, that a precursorwould announce.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Which is really.
You know, don't go past thattoo fast, because they're from
Nazareth, and yet he's going tobe born in Bethlehem, as the
prophecy, and sure enough, heends up in Bethlehem.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
It's amazing, isn't it?
Yeah, it is, it absolutely is,and so you know.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
What was the other one?
You were going to say that youwere going to bring another one
up, the other one has to do withthe Shroud of Turin and the
Sudarium of Oviedo.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Are you familiar with the Sudarium, the Shroud of
Turin?
Are you familiar with theShroud?
Speaker 1 (16:13):
of Turin, of course, yes, but for people that aren't,
we have some new viewers.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
It's the burial cloth of Jesus, the Shroud of Turin,
but the Sudarium of Oviedo isthe cloth that covered his head
while on the cross, and theJewish faith was spiritually
unclean to look upon a deadperson.
You would have to go throughceremonial cleansing in the
temple in order to so whathappened when Jesus died on the
(16:41):
cross?
They put a cloth over his headand fastened it to his head.
Now it's referenced.
That was standard practice.
That was practice, commonpractice, would they have?
Speaker 1 (16:53):
done it to all three of the people on the cross, they
would have.
Yes, they would have.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
Okay, right, but in John's gospel it makes reference
to these two cloths.
You know, when Peter and Johnarrive at the tomb and Peter
goes, in first he sees the clothand then he makes reference to
the burial cloth, not with thecloth, but folded up separately.
Separately, yeah, okay.
(17:18):
So what would have happened is,when Joseph of Arimat brought
Jesus' body to the tomb, theywould have taken the cedarium
off and separated it, folded itup, apart from where Jesus was
laid and the shroud would havecovered his body, apart from
where Jesus was laid and theshroud would have covered his
body.
Now, what's reallyextraordinary is the bloodstains
(17:43):
on the Shroud of Turin and thebloodstains on the Sudarium
match, and they still exist.
These two cloths still exist.
One is in Turin, italy, whichis the Shroud, and Ovidio is in
Spain, and they both exist.
What scientists have done istaken the two cloths and matched
them up and found 20 points ofcorrelation between the two
(18:05):
cloths Unbelievable, huh.
And they said, in any court oflaw in the world, no more than
10 points of correlation arerequired to submit for evidence
in that court that corroboratethe two cloths, and this has 20.
It not only has the same blood,but it has the same.
(18:26):
There's two types of blood onthe shroud and on the cedarium.
One is blood, pure blood.
Both have AB positive bloodtype, which is the same as every
single Eucharistic miracle hasAB positive blood type, and
there's over 150 Eucharisticmiracles.
The second is there's blood andwater.
(18:47):
And remember Jesus' heart waspierced with a lance.
When they would have taken himdown from the cross, one of them
would have wrapped his bodyover their shoulder while the
other one was prying the nailsout of his hands.
Right, it would have had tohappen or he would have fallen
off the cross, okay.
(19:08):
So what would have happened isbalancing his body on the
shoulder, some of that liquidthat scientists, doctors, talk
about, that form around theheart.
When you go through the type ofpassion that Jesus went through
and the scourging and thecrucifixion, some of that water
(19:29):
would have come out his nose andhis mouth when his body was
wrapped.
Much of it came out the theside, some of what was left in
the chest cavity would have comeout of his nose and mouth, and
they're both on both.
Both this blood and water is onboth the shroud of tauren and
the uh, the sudarium of a vitalin the same locations
(19:51):
unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
You can't make it up.
Yeah, no, that no.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
That's science.
That's not faith, that'sscience.
When, just going back to thefirst point, which is the one in
100 quadrillion, dr PeterStoner said to envision the
magnitude of that silver dollarsand you laid them out in the
(20:20):
physical boundaries of Texas,you would fill Texas completely
with a stack two feet high.
Wow, you said, if you took oneof those silver dollars and
marked it with an X on it andthen took a man, blindfolded him
, put him in the middle of thestate and said walk for as far
as you want, in any direction,you pick one coin.
The odds of one to 100quadrillion is that you, the man
(20:44):
, picks the one coin mark withthe X in the entire state, two
feet deep.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Yeah, when a young guy walks into the story, I
think you know, as he readsScripture, as what we're seeing,
not only is the truth comingout, not only is that resonating
with his heart, but it'sstarting to heal their brains.
You know, it's amazing.
You know, when you're into thistoxic culture these young
people are living through,deacon Frank, especially with
(21:12):
pornography and those kind ofthings, you know, your neural
pathways get rewired and itchanges your actual, the way you
think and the images you see.
When you're reading scriptureand you're reading Christ and
you're walking into the story,there's a healing process that
goes on and it's so beautiful tosee.
And not only are you receivingthe word, which is true, not
(21:32):
only are you getting away fromthis abusive language that we
talked about before.
I mean, there's a reason thatJesus is called the Word huh,
because he brings the Word inand the truth in.
Let your yes be yes and your nobe no.
It's such a beautiful thingwhen we just walk in the truth,
you know, when you push away thelies that we're told.
And that's the other thing withthese young people they're told
(21:54):
so many lies that they'reseeking the truth.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
they want to know the truth.
I agree, jack, and, and one ofthe things that people don't
they know there's something notright, but they can't put their
finger on it yep and I think yesa lot of it is that the culture
has promised them happinessthrough pleasure, through
pleasure and pleasure is not thesame thing as happiness.
Happiness is long lasting, youknow, when you're happy and God
(22:22):
gives us a heart, he wants us tobe happy.
Pleasure is about selfishnessand seeking out pornography and
whatever other things that mightgratify us, but that's selfish.
Happiness, on the other hand,comes from being selfless,
giving of self, and when you dosomething for someone else, you
(22:45):
feel good.
You know, think of yourself,jack, and the great work you're
doing on this podcast, right theseries, and working with young
men trying to find their way tothe truth.
You have to be drawing a greatamount of happiness and joy from
that work.
It's an effort on your part,okay, but it's truly happy.
(23:09):
You experience a happiness anda joy that you never experience
by seeking out pleasure.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Oh, and John Paul, you know he spoke to young
people often.
As you know, deacon Frank, he'sthe one that started the World
Youth Days, et cetera.
And he would say over and overagain, to your point young
people, you know that your lifehas meaning to the extent that
it's given away as a gift toothers.
He said if you want meaning, ifyou want peace, if you want
(23:36):
happiness, give your life away.
And you know and you thinkabout here's Jesus on the cross,
right, this is my body, givenfor you, and he pours himself
out.
You say you know, why wouldsomeone do that?
Right?
You do it out of love, you know, and it's only until you start
to give yourself away that youfind yourself.
You know, and it's only untilyou start to give yourself a way
that you find yourself, youfind meaning, because this is
(23:58):
the actual objective truth oflove.
And here's the last thing I'lljust say in this segment and
throw it back in your court Lovetoday, Deacon Frank, has been
reduced down to a feeling andthen further reduced down to sex
.
So sex is that pleasure thatwe're told is going to find
happiness, but sexual expressionis the two becoming one in true
(24:22):
love.
And that's where you find realhappiness, you know, not in
using and abuse.
In fact, the opposite of loveis not hate.
The opposite of love is usingsomeone for your own pleasure,
and you'll never find whatyou're looking for there, right.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Absolutely right.
You couldn't have said itbetter, jack.
It's about giving of self, andthat's really what marriage is
about, right, giving yourself toyour soulmate, your life
partner, if you will, andbuilding a life together.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
Yeah, look how many marriages, I think.
And look, we get a lot ofemails and a lot of people want
to meet because I do a lot oftalks on marriages and things,
right, right, and marriage is inbad shape right now because we
forgot what you just said.
Both spouses are trying to getyou know, find infinite
happiness and you know out of afinite person, and they're using
(25:16):
each other to try to findsomething that's not really
there.
It's not brain surgery, is it,deacon Frank?
I got to be filled with divinelife and love from the one
hanging on the cross there inthe Trinity, and then I have to
become that person of love andas I receive, I have something
to give away.
We're trying to give somethingto people that we don't have,
and then we're trying to graspsomething that they don't have,
(25:39):
and this is a futile problem.
How many marriages break upbecause we don't understand that
it's over?
Speaker 2 (25:45):
50% now of Catholic marriages that fail.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Yeah, we're the same as-.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Very unfortunate, which is very unfortunate, and
what we have to do is recognizewhat marriage is all about.
It's about procreation, it'sabout raising a family, it's
about giving of self.
The family is the domesticchurch.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
It's the domestic church.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
And what we have to do is recognize that we have a
role to play in God's plan forour salvation, and all of us
have been given unique gifts anddifferent opportunities to
touch people, and that's theexciting part of it.
I can touch many people bybeing a deacon in a parish and
(26:28):
writing articles and meeting astranger on the street.
There's so many differentopportunities that present
itself into being the besthusband and the best father and
the best grandfather that I canbe.
That's really what it's livinga life in Christ.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
And I'll tell you what, and I'm going to make a
little plug here for thisClaymore sword behind me and I'm
going to send you Deacon.
If you know, and just to remindpeople that are new to the show
that Claymore Miletus Christi isright on our website you go to
jp2reneworg, jp2reneworg or goto resources and you can
(27:09):
download the outline of thatbattle plan and what it does
Deacon for the people that we'reworking with is it helps you
disciple multiple young people,because what happens is, you
know, we only have so muchbandwidth, so much time, and so
if you meet somebody and I'mspeaking to our whole audience
here as you meet somebody, don'tlet them fall through the
(27:30):
cracks.
These young people.
If you let them fall throughthe cracks, they'll get excited
for a while and the world willsweep them away.
So when you see that, just lookat Claymore, download it.
And I asked the other person todownload it and the whole
outline is there.
It's John Paul II's three-partblueprint for taking back the
individual human heart, marriageand the family, and then going
(27:53):
out into the vineyard andrestoring the culture, and it's
all there laid out.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
That's building from inside out right.
Yes, sir you got to fixyourself first.
You can't do it unless you fixyourself Deacon.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
Frank say that again.
You got to fix who first.
You got to fix yourself first.
Yes, you do, and that is righton.
If you look at Claymore,miletus Christi, it starts with
the individual human heart.
Schultz and Eason said that.
Do you remember Alexander?
Schultz and Eason said he's ina gulag, he comes out and he
said I figured out.
(28:26):
You know, marxism is wrongbecause we forgot about original
sin and it always starts in theindividual human heart.
That most of the evil.
You and I started talking aboutevil right in the beginning of
the show.
Most of the evil.
John Paul would say the samething.
Out in the world are men andwomen cooperating with the evil
(28:47):
one.
Most of the evil right.
Abortion again, all thosethings that we brought up, the
trans things, the human sextrafficking, the fentanyl,
that's, human beings that theirhearts have been twisted right
and distorted Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Now I know you want to go to my article on.
Mary's perpetual virginity.
I do.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
We're going to run out of time aren't we?
So let's do this then.
The main point and I want tomake sure we cover that first.
The main point is how aboutthese brothers and sisters?
We hear about Deacon, frank andthe gospel.
That's the main thing.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
You know, one of the things we have to recognize is
that Mary's perpetual virginityis a dogma of the Catholic faith
, which means it's the highestteaching.
Okay, and for Catholic in goodstanding, all dogmas must be
believed.
So how does this jive with ourreading of sacred scripture?
(29:42):
Well, all of the easternMediterranean in the fourth
century BC and was in existenceright up to 600.
That was the common language.
(30:03):
Many of the figures in the NewTestament have two different
names and that's because theyhave a Greek name and they have
a Hebrew name.
Mark's name is Greek, hisHebrew name is John.
He's John Mark, but we call himMark.
He's the author of the secondgospel and you can look at
numerous examples Matthew andLevi, right, same person.
(30:27):
Levi is the Hebrew name,matthew is the Greek name.
Okay, so Koine Greek was thecommon language spoken amongst
the Eastern Mediterranean upuntil 600 AD.
Now this dogma was pronouncedat a ecumenical council in 553,
(30:51):
at the Second Council ofConstantinople.
Now, all of the EasternCatholic bishops that were
present would have known KoineGreek.
In Koine Greek, the word forbrother and sister is adelphoi,
and it didn't only mean brotherand sister, it meant cousin, it
(31:16):
meant sister-in-law,brother-in-law, a whole series
of relationships.
A good example of this is andit's written in the Gospels,
where Jesus is on the cross, andin John's Gospel it makes
reference to the fact and belowthe cross, at the foot of the
cross, was his mother and hismother's sister, mary of Clopas.
(31:41):
Now, taking that, you say, ifthey're truly sisters, if
Adelphoi only means sisters,then that means St Joachim and
St Anne named two of theirdaughters, mary.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
Yes, what's the logic of that Not going to happen?
So?
Speaker 2 (31:58):
it's sister-in-law in that case, right.
And the case with the brothersand sisters that are referenced
in the Gospels.
You know, mark mentions severalof them, right, they are
cousins and they are children ofMary Clopas and that's in
Scripture too, right DeaconFrank?
(32:19):
Yes, yes, yes, it makesreference to two of the four
that are mentioned as being sonsof Mary of Clopas.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
Yes, the other thing is that you mentioned in the
article is that Jesus turns toJohn.
He says to John you know, thisis your mother now, right?
In other words and here's yourson that Jesus wouldn't have
done that if he had other actualsiblings around, right?
So you?
Speaker 2 (32:48):
want to just touch on that real quick because I
thought that was a great point.
You know, jewish tradition wasthat.
You know it was very tribal,very family oriented, right.
And so it would have been atremendous dishonor to his
mother, mm-hmm, and to his if hehad siblings, his siblings for
doing that To give his motheraway to somebody.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
That wasn't related Correct, he wouldn't have done
that right, correct, correct,yeah, so these are great.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
You made great points in there.
The other one that I think is,you know, I love the Old
Testament.
I grew up, you know, reallyliking Matthew's gospel because
of all of these prophecies thatare included in it, and so I
started, as I got older, startedto read the Old Testament and
there's a wealth of informationthere, and one of the things
(33:36):
that the Old Testament does istopology.
There's topology is the studyof what the Old Testament
prophesizes is fulfilled in theNew Testament.
And one of the things is the Arkof the Covenant, and in the Ark
of the Covenant there was thisthere was the box that God asked
.
You know it was the holiestobject that there was kept in
(33:58):
the holy of holies and no onecould touch it.
And you know, it was justextremely holy, it was the
presence of God on earth.
Extremely holy, it was thepresence of God on earth.
And Mary is the new Ark of theCovenant because she carried God
himself and one prefigures whatis ultimately fulfilled, and so
(34:19):
the thing that Mary wouldn't bepure and not have any, you know
, the Ark of the Covenant.
There's an example wheresomeone actually touches the Ark
of the Covenant, drops dead,Drops dead.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
You know, it's such a holy image that you just
painted that it would almost bein my mind right, and as you're
in the church long enough, itwould almost be like there's no
way that Mary didn't stay pure.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
We would go the other way and you just when I'm
speaking to my Protestantfriends and evangelical friends,
sometimes they have a strugglewith this, but I think if they
really sat on it, Deacon, likeyou just brought out with it,
you know, looking back at theOld Testament, the New Testament
, thinking that this is Godhimself takes on a body, and
look at the Old Testament, theNew Testament, thinking that
this is God himself takes on abody, and look at the privilege
(35:12):
that this woman had.
I mean, sometimes I think ofour Blessed Mother and I think,
you know, God actually took ahuman being and now she's the
Queen of Heaven.
There's no way that she didn'tstay pure.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
There's no way Before this dogma was pronounced in
553, two of the most famous ofthe church fathers you know,
those are the earliest men thatwrote orthodoxy and two that are
prominent.
One is Jerome, who translatedthe entire Bible Old and New
Testament into one language, theLatin, which was called the
(35:45):
Latin Vulgate, as well as StAthanasius who, in 325, was a
deacon at the first council ofNicaea with a Nicene Creed, that
which we Catholics recite everySunday.
He was the author of much ofthat document.
(36:06):
Athanasius and both of them, intheir writings, write about
Mary's perpetual virginity.
Yeah, this was early, early,early, early on, you're talking
about two very yeah right, onein the beginning of the fourth
century and the other one at theend of the fourth century.
And this dogma came intoexistence in the sixthth century
(36:27):
, 553 AD.
So I have no doubts of Mary'sperpetual virginity.
In fact, you know, if youreally look for answers and
search for the truth, you'llfind it.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
And.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
Mary's perpetual virginity is the truth.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
Yeah, and you brought it up and I'll make sure I link
your.
You know a number of yourarticles.
I'll link at least a couple ofthese in the show notes so
people have them.
The other thing you did is youbrought up in the Old Testament
there was a precedent for thisalready that people would
actually spouses, would getmarried, and yet they took a vow
(37:07):
of virginity Perpetualvirginity.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
And if the husband, did not that person if that
woman get married?
And yet they took a vow ofvirginity Perpetual virginity
and if?
the husband did not, that person, that woman, got married.
If the husband did not rejectit on the day he was told, then
it stayed in full force andeffect.
That's in Numbers, chapter 30.
One thing I did want to mentionif anyone is interested in
reading any of my articles, thelink that they can type in is
(37:28):
Catholic Exchange, deacon Frank.
You can type in CatholicExchange, deacon Frank.
There'll be a link that'll popup.
You can hit that link and allof my 19 articles will appear.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
You're a treasure.
Any last parting advice forthese young people coming in, I
mean, it's exciting to be ableto be with them, to walk with
them, to talk with them.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
But parting word to these young men and women that
are searching for the truth.
As I said, Jesus is the truthand he wants us to believe with
our whole hearts that he is theone set apart by God to be our
redemption, the source of ourredemption.
And we are called to truediscipleship, which means 24-7,
(38:19):
being committed to living a lifeof true discipleship and making
a difference in our lives forthe betterment of others.
The old Baltimore Catechism,which I grew up in you may have
grown up with it says why didGod create us?
That was the very firstquestion, and the answer was to
know him, to love him and toserve him so as to be with him
(38:41):
in the next life.
Okay, and that order is veryimportant, you must first know
him.
You can't love him and servehim unless you first know him,
and the best source for knowinghim is the scriptures and the
church.
The second is to serve to love,and that love will come through
(39:01):
knowledge.
And then, lastly, when you haveknowledge and love, the service
becomes very easy.
Don't put that.
That order is very importantfor anyone listening.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
You can't give what you don't have.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
It's knowledge, love and service.
Correct.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
Can't give what you don't have.
Hey, God bless you, Deaconthank you so much.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
Thanks for your time.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
Thanks for being with us.
Thanks, everyone.
Talk to you again soon.
Bye-bye.
Are you still feeling that evil or do we conquer that
between the time you wrote it?
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Evil is, you know, working every day.
Jack, it is working.
What we have to do is recognizeit begins with a realization
that there is a truth.
It's an objective truth.
It's outside of us.
God has given us a conscienceto know the truth, to evaluate
the truth that exists outside ofus and apply that truth in the
(00:26):
everyday circumstances of life.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Anybody here create the universe?
Nobody, I said anybody here.
Write the story.
The big story we came into gavemeaning and purpose to all the
things that you see.
Ah, nobody.
Ah, that means you guys cameinto a story, didn't you?
And I said exactly what you'resaying, just in a little
different way.
And God gave us reason,intellect, free will, a
(00:51):
conscience to figure out what isthe truth.
Right, can you imagine thepride of us, deacon Frank, we're
sitting, we're one little dotin the universe and we think I
got the answer to this Exactly.
No wonder I'm depressed andanxious exactly welcome to the
(01:21):
become who you are podcast, aproduction of the John Paul II
Renewal Center.
I'm Jack Riggert, your host.
Today we're experiencingsomething that's
quasi-unexpected.
Here in the United States andacross the Atlantic, a Catholic
renaissance has taken place,mainly among young people.
In France, over 10,000 adultswere baptized this Easter, with
(01:41):
young people leading the charge.
I was just off the phone withsomeone that wanted me to come
down and speak in Tucson,arizona.
I'm outside of Chicago, aseverybody knows.
The woman on the phone saidTucson is very secular, but she
said her mass, the mass at herparish, is beginning to fill up
with young people.
So what's going on here?
Is this a passing fad orsomething that's really bigger
(02:03):
than that?
And we're sensing that it'sbigger than that, especially
here in the United States.
We have an apostolate within ourapostolate, called Claymore
Miletus Christi, to disciplethese young men.
When they come back into thechurch, when they're looking at
the church, we ask them what'sgoing on, what moved you?
And they said we're seeking thetruth, we're tired of moral
(02:24):
relativism, we're tired of theevil we see around us and in our
own hearts, with pornography,addictions and all kinds of
things.
And the second thing, once theyactually come into the church,
they start asking specificquestions.
One of those questions is thetruth concerning Mary's
perpetual virginity.
Didn't Jesus have brothers andsisters?
Didn't Mary have other children?
So, have brothers and sisters?
Didn't Mary have other children?
(02:45):
So those are the two thingswe're seeing so much this
presence of evil in the world,and also some specific questions
.
Well, we're lucky to have DeaconFrank here.
Deacon Frank is a permanentdeacon in the United States.
He's involved in theEucharistic revival.
He's been a deacon for 17 yearsand we're going to bring him on
(03:06):
to help wade through and helpthese young people that are
coming back into the church.
Deacon Frank, it's such apleasure to have you.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Jack, I appreciate the opportunity to talk to you.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
These young people, deacon, frank, are looking for
models, role models.
Not only role models that willshow them what having the faith
looks like, which is importantto them, but also role models
that can help them, disciplethem, mentor them as they come
into the faith.
They answer questions, and sothat's what we do on a lot of
these podcasts.
So, you know, we get wonderfulpeople like yourself, deacon, to
(03:38):
come in and help us throughthese things.
You know you wrote an article,so I want to talk about two of
your articles and I didn't warnyou ahead of time, so God bless
you.
If you can remember this, noproblem, but this was right
before the election, and youwrote about evil and you said
woe to those who call evil goodand good evil.
You talked about all kinds ofthings we talk about on the show
, which are so important, andwhat these young people see
(04:01):
abortion, these LBGTQ issues,the human trafficking, the
fentanyl epidemic.
You put it all in there thecrime we see on our streets, the
inflation that's mislabeled, asyou put it, as economic growth,
indoctrination, which we'veseen, this sexual indoctrination
especially, but the CRT, thecritical gender theories that
they're pushing on their kidsall the way into kindergarten,
(04:23):
you can't make this stuff up.
And then in the other articlewas the Truth Concerning Mary's
Perpetual Virginity, both in theCatholic Exchange.
Wonderful articles, deaconFrank.
So thank you for writing thosefirst of all.
Thank you, jack.
Are you still feeling that evilor do we conquer that between?
Speaker 2 (04:40):
the time you wrote it .
Evil is, you know, workingevery day Jack, and what we have
to do is recognize.
It begins with a realizationthat there is a truth.
It's an objective truth.
It's outside of us.
God has given us a conscienceto know the truth, to evaluate
the truth that exists outside ofus and apply that truth in the
(05:03):
everyday circumstances of life.
Okay, that's what our conscienceis, what the culture has done
over the last couple hundredyears is to deny objective truth
and replace it with subjectivetruth, which you know, I'm sure
we've all heard the expressionmy truth and your truth.
There is no my truth and yourtruth, there's only the truth,
(05:25):
right, and that truth is JesusChrist.
Okay, he said I am the way, thetruth and the life.
Okay, so what we have to do isrecognize first where the you
know to deal with the problem.
You have to identify what theproblem is before you can deal
with its many symptoms.
And the problem is we havedenied objective truth.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Yeah, Another way you know to say that is and you're
right on, of course is that whenwe're speaking to young people,
90 percent this was the studywas done, I think, about five or
six years ago.
At that time, high school andcollege students, 90 percent of
them would subscribe to moralrelativism.
(06:10):
Right, there is no truth, Right?
I think those numbers are alittle lower just because
they've seen the moral chaos, asyou even wrote in your article,
when you know there is asubjective truth.
Right, I like blue and you likegreen and I like fish and you
like steak, so there are thingslike that, but there's an there,
there's.
So there's subjective truthsthat we say, but objective truth
(06:32):
is something that we live out.
We feel this in our heart, youknow, and our hearts are made,
aren't they, Deacon Frank?
Absolutely I remember as a youngguy thinking what is the truth
of this thing?
You know, I grew up in a sexualrevolution.
I remember clearly in my heartthinking I need to know the
truth Exactly.
(06:54):
And you know, in addition tothe article you quoted about—
Woe to those who call evil goodand good evil yes.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
There's two others that I wrote earlier than that
that I think really get to thisissue.
The first one is what is trutha modern day Tower of Babel
story, and the second one iswhen history became legend and
legend became myth, and both ofthem deal with this same issue.
Okay, but only go in moredetail.
You know, the focus on thearticle that you're referencing
(07:22):
really dealt with the electionand how we had a very clear
choice to make, and I tried tomake that case as clear as
possible without being political.
But the groundwork for that wasdone in these other two
articles.
In the first one, which was, waswhat is truth the modern day
(07:44):
Tower of Babel story, I positthat you know, when God
basically confused people atBabel right and they couldn't
communicate with one another,that a lot of work that Satan
would have done to get them torebel against God went for
naught.
And you know Satan would havebegrudgingly looked at it and
(08:08):
said gee, that's something I canlearn from meaning confusing
language.
And that's what they've done byvirtue of introducing
subjective truth, because if wedon't have the same
understanding of what words mean, then we're not speaking the
same language.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
No, you're exactly right.
You know this abuse of languageis a big deal right now.
That's why you know, that's whythis use of these gender terms,
gender ideology, the pronouns.
You know people think well,what's wrong with just?
You know they them and you saywell because you're speaking of
one person.
And when you get into thosekinds of things, you know they
them and you say well, becauseyou're speaking of one person,
(08:46):
right, and when you get intothose kind of things, you know,
when you say a boy can become agirl, just because I think it in
my head, if I can swallow thatlie, you know that abusive
language, I'll swallow any lie,won't I?
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Right, and it can go even further than that, jack, in
that we could use the samewords, the exact same words, but
have two different meanings tothose same words, because of
subjective truth.
Okay, so what we have to do isrecognize that what this denial
of objective truth has done iscreate the belief in a
subjective truth, which resultsin chaos.
(09:20):
You know, god gave us objectivetruth for order, for there to
be order in the world.
You know, when we look at theworld, we look at nature.
Everything is order.
There is structure and order tothe world.
Yet when we can't even use thesame words and mean the same
things, what you're really goingfor is chaos, and that's really
(09:42):
what we suffer in the worldtoday.
We suffer a total breakdown oforder because we're not seeking
the truth, we're seeking our owndesires.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
You know what I've realized, and you hit on it just
a few minutes ago.
When I'm speaking about thetruth and somebody asks me what
is the truth, you know the truthis not a something.
The truth is a somebody.
Exactly His name is JesusChrist.
You know, you remember thosebands.
I don't know if you rememberthem, deacon Frank, it was many
years ago.
Those bands, what would Jesusdo Exactly?
(10:16):
I'll tell you what.
That's not a bad thing.
We ought to bring those bandsback.
I think you.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
I think you know, john, I worked for many years.
I was an executive director ofa law firm and on my desk was a
rock, shape of a rock, and on itwas those exact same words what
would Jesus do?
And I would look at that rockoccasionally and make sure that
I was doing things consistentwith what God's truth is.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Yes, people ask you know, how do I know Jesus exists
?
And you know all kinds ofquestions when they're coming
back into the church, right, andthere's all kinds of ways to
talk about that.
But truth, I just sometimes I'dsay you know, you got to walk
into the story and keep lookingat Jesus and asking you know,
what is the truth of my life?
What is the truth?
How should I act in thissituation?
(11:02):
And you'll start to find yourway through the closer you get
to Christ.
It's amazing.
I stopped trying to go downdifferent paths and trying to
massage this to people.
Now I just say it If you'reseeking the truth, let me give
you an example Go follow thatguy on the cross and you know
what it works.
It really works.
It's amazing.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Remember, in reading John's Gospel there's an
interaction between PontiusPilate and Jesus.
Yes, and Jesus says whoeverseeks the truth will hear my
voice.
Pontius Pilate said what istruth.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Yeah, what is truth?
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Pontius Pilate represents our culture today.
What is truth?
And what we have to do isrecognize we don't determine the
truth.
What we're to do is to use ourconscience to apply the
universal truth, the objectivetruth, to the everyday
circumstances of life.
And what is the truth?
(11:59):
It's what Jesus taught us okay,in the Gospels and so forth.
He taught us everything we needto know in order to live the
life of true discipleship.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
You know, when you're saying that, I just you know.
I was speaking to some youngpeople just recently and I asked
them.
I said you know, I don't reallyknow you.
I said anybody here?
Just to get to know you alittle bit?
Anybody here create theuniverse?
Nobody, I said anybody herewrite the story?
The big story we came into gavemeaning and purpose to all the
(12:31):
things that you see.
Ah, nobody.
Ah, that means you guys cameinto a story, didn't you?
And I said exactly what you'resaying, just in a little
different way.
And God gave us reason,intellect, free will, a
conscience to figure out what isthe truth.
Right, can you imagine thepride of us, deacon, frank,
(12:51):
we're sitting, we're one littledot in the universe and we think
I got the answer to thisExactly.
No wonder I'm depressed andanxious, exactly.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
You know there were two other articles, jack, that
relate to this.
It's really both of them dealwith science because, you know,
god gave us not only our faith,and there's a couple of things
that really stood out.
I wrote an article back in Ithink it was December of last
(13:33):
year about eight probabilitieswhat's the probability that a
person would randomly fulfilleight prophecies that Jesus
fulfilled?
Now, jesus didn't fulfill eight.
Let's talk about that.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
Let's talk about Now.
Jesus didn't fulfill eight.
Let's talk about that.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Let's talk about that .
Jesus didn't fulfill eight.
He fulfilled over 300prophecies.
Okay, and a scientist, a mathprofessor, along with 600 of his
students, did a class exerciseand the professor's name was Dr
(14:07):
Peter Stoner.
The class exercise took place inthe early 1950s and the
professor selected eight of theprophecies that Jesus fulfilled
and none of the more difficultones, like the resurrection from
the dead or the ascension intoheaven, which are prophecies in
the Old Testament that Jesusdoes fulfill, and the eight.
(14:30):
So they went about trying tocalculate the probabilities on
each of these eight preselectedOld Testament prophecies,
prophecies.
Once they did that, dr Stonerremoved the top you know the
odds on the extreme the top 10%and bottom 10% to average out
(14:51):
the 80%, and then theymultiplied the eight
calculations for 600 studentsand came up with an overall
probability.
What can you imagine?
What the odds that someonerandomly over the course of
history would fulfill thoseeight predetermined prophecies
(15:13):
contained in the Old Testament?
I'll tell you the odds one in ahundred quadrillion.
One in a hundred quadrillion,that's one with 17 zeros after
it.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
It's amazing, right it's amazing.
And that's eight, not 300 over300 do you have one or two uh
specific ones?
Speaker 2 (15:36):
one is of the eight you're talking about.
Yeah, that he was born, that hewould be born in bethlehem.
Another, uh, that a precursorwould announce.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Which is really.
You know, don't go past thattoo fast, because they're from
Nazareth, and yet he's going tobe born in Bethlehem, as the
prophecy, and sure enough, heends up in Bethlehem.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
It's amazing, isn't it?
Yeah, it is, it absolutely is,and so you know.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
What was the other one?
You were going to say that youwere going to bring another one
up, the other one has to do withthe Shroud of Turin and the
Sudarium of Oviedo.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Are you familiar with the Sudarium, the Shroud of
Turin?
Are you familiar with theShroud?
Speaker 1 (16:13):
of Turin, of course, yes, but for people that aren't,
we have some new viewers.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
It's the burial cloth of Jesus, the Shroud of Turin,
but the Sudarium of Oviedo isthe cloth that covered his head
while on the cross, and theJewish faith was spiritually
unclean to look upon a deadperson.
You would have to go throughceremonial cleansing in the
temple in order to so whathappened when Jesus died on the
(16:41):
cross?
They put a cloth over his headand fastened it to his head.
Now it's referenced.
That was standard practice.
That was practice, commonpractice, would they have?
Speaker 1 (16:53):
done it to all three of the people on the cross, they
would have.
Yes, they would have.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
Okay, right, but in John's gospel it makes reference
to these two cloths.
You know, when Peter and Johnarrive at the tomb and Peter
goes, in first he sees the clothand then he makes reference to
the burial cloth, not with thecloth, but folded up separately.
Separately, yeah, okay.
(17:18):
So what would have happened is,when Joseph of Arimat brought
Jesus' body to the tomb, theywould have taken the cedarium
off and separated it, folded itup, apart from where Jesus was
laid and the shroud would havecovered his body, apart from
where Jesus was laid and theshroud would have covered his
body.
Now, what's reallyextraordinary is the bloodstains
(17:43):
on the Shroud of Turin and thebloodstains on the Sudarium
match, and they still exist.
These two cloths still exist.
One is in Turin, italy, whichis the Shroud, and Ovidio is in
Spain, and they both exist.
What scientists have done istaken the two cloths and matched
them up and found 20 points ofcorrelation between the two
(18:05):
cloths Unbelievable, huh.
And they said, in any court oflaw in the world, no more than
10 points of correlation arerequired to submit for evidence
in that court that corroboratethe two cloths, and this has 20.
It not only has the same blood,but it has the same.
(18:26):
There's two types of blood onthe shroud and on the cedarium.
One is blood, pure blood.
Both have AB positive bloodtype, which is the same as every
single Eucharistic miracle hasAB positive blood type, and
there's over 150 Eucharisticmiracles.
The second is there's blood andwater.
(18:47):
And remember Jesus' heart waspierced with a lance.
When they would have taken himdown from the cross, one of them
would have wrapped his bodyover their shoulder while the
other one was prying the nailsout of his hands.
Right, it would have had tohappen or he would have fallen
off the cross, okay.
(19:08):
So what would have happened isbalancing his body on the
shoulder, some of that liquidthat scientists, doctors, talk
about, that form around theheart.
When you go through the type ofpassion that Jesus went through
and the scourging and thecrucifixion, some of that water
(19:29):
would have come out his nose andhis mouth when his body was
wrapped.
Much of it came out the theside, some of what was left in
the chest cavity would have comeout of his nose and mouth, and
they're both on both.
Both this blood and water is onboth the shroud of tauren and
the uh, the sudarium of a vitalin the same locations
(19:51):
unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
You can't make it up.
Yeah, no, that no.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
That's science.
That's not faith, that'sscience.
When, just going back to thefirst point, which is the one in
100 quadrillion, dr PeterStoner said to envision the
magnitude of that silver dollarsand you laid them out in the
(20:20):
physical boundaries of Texas,you would fill Texas completely
with a stack two feet high.
Wow, you said, if you took oneof those silver dollars and
marked it with an X on it andthen took a man, blindfolded him
, put him in the middle of thestate and said walk for as far
as you want, in any direction,you pick one coin.
The odds of one to 100quadrillion is that you, the man
(20:44):
, picks the one coin mark withthe X in the entire state, two
feet deep.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Yeah, when a young guy walks into the story, I
think you know, as he readsScripture, as what we're seeing,
not only is the truth comingout, not only is that resonating
with his heart, but it'sstarting to heal their brains.
You know, it's amazing.
You know, when you're into thistoxic culture these young
people are living through,deacon Frank, especially with
(21:12):
pornography and those kind ofthings, you know, your neural
pathways get rewired and itchanges your actual, the way you
think and the images you see.
When you're reading scriptureand you're reading Christ and
you're walking into the story,there's a healing process that
goes on and it's so beautiful tosee.
And not only are you receivingthe word, which is true, not
(21:32):
only are you getting away fromthis abusive language that we
talked about before.
I mean, there's a reason thatJesus is called the Word huh,
because he brings the Word inand the truth in.
Let your yes be yes and your nobe no.
It's such a beautiful thingwhen we just walk in the truth,
you know, when you push away thelies that we're told.
And that's the other thing withthese young people they're told
(21:54):
so many lies that they'reseeking the truth.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
they want to know the truth.
I agree, jack, and, and one ofthe things that people don't
they know there's something notright, but they can't put their
finger on it yep and I think yesa lot of it is that the culture
has promised them happinessthrough pleasure, through
pleasure and pleasure is not thesame thing as happiness.
Happiness is long lasting, youknow, when you're happy and God
(22:22):
gives us a heart, he wants us tobe happy.
Pleasure is about selfishnessand seeking out pornography and
whatever other things that mightgratify us, but that's selfish.
Happiness, on the other hand,comes from being selfless,
giving of self, and when you dosomething for someone else, you
(22:45):
feel good.
You know, think of yourself,jack, and the great work you're
doing on this podcast, right theseries, and working with young
men trying to find their way tothe truth.
You have to be drawing a greatamount of happiness and joy from
that work.
It's an effort on your part,okay, but it's truly happy.
(23:09):
You experience a happiness anda joy that you never experience
by seeking out pleasure.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Oh, and John Paul, you know he spoke to young
people often.
As you know, deacon Frank, he'sthe one that started the World
Youth Days, et cetera.
And he would say over and overagain, to your point young
people, you know that your lifehas meaning to the extent that
it's given away as a gift toothers.
He said if you want meaning, ifyou want peace, if you want
(23:36):
happiness, give your life away.
And you know and you thinkabout here's Jesus on the cross,
right, this is my body, givenfor you, and he pours himself
out.
You say you know, why wouldsomeone do that?
Right?
You do it out of love, you know, and it's only until you start
to give yourself away that youfind yourself.
You know, and it's only untilyou start to give yourself a way
that you find yourself, youfind meaning, because this is
(23:58):
the actual objective truth oflove.
And here's the last thing I'lljust say in this segment and
throw it back in your court Lovetoday, Deacon Frank, has been
reduced down to a feeling andthen further reduced down to sex
.
So sex is that pleasure thatwe're told is going to find
happiness, but sexual expressionis the two becoming one in true
(24:22):
love.
And that's where you find realhappiness, you know, not in
using and abuse.
In fact, the opposite of loveis not hate.
The opposite of love is usingsomeone for your own pleasure,
and you'll never find whatyou're looking for there, right.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Absolutely right.
You couldn't have said itbetter, jack.
It's about giving of self, andthat's really what marriage is
about, right, giving yourself toyour soulmate, your life
partner, if you will, andbuilding a life together.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
Yeah, look how many marriages, I think.
And look, we get a lot ofemails and a lot of people want
to meet because I do a lot oftalks on marriages and things,
right, right, and marriage is inbad shape right now because we
forgot what you just said.
Both spouses are trying to getyou know, find infinite
happiness and you know out of afinite person, and they're using
(25:16):
each other to try to findsomething that's not really
there.
It's not brain surgery, is it,deacon Frank?
I got to be filled with divinelife and love from the one
hanging on the cross there inthe Trinity, and then I have to
become that person of love andas I receive, I have something
to give away.
We're trying to give somethingto people that we don't have,
and then we're trying to graspsomething that they don't have,
(25:39):
and this is a futile problem.
How many marriages break upbecause we don't understand that
it's over?
Speaker 2 (25:45):
50% now of Catholic marriages that fail.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Yeah, we're the same as-.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Very unfortunate, which is very unfortunate, and
what we have to do is recognizewhat marriage is all about.
It's about procreation, it'sabout raising a family, it's
about giving of self.
The family is the domesticchurch.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
It's the domestic church.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
And what we have to do is recognize that we have a
role to play in God's plan forour salvation, and all of us
have been given unique gifts anddifferent opportunities to
touch people, and that's theexciting part of it.
I can touch many people bybeing a deacon in a parish and
(26:28):
writing articles and meeting astranger on the street.
There's so many differentopportunities that present
itself into being the besthusband and the best father and
the best grandfather that I canbe.
That's really what it's livinga life in Christ.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
And I'll tell you what, and I'm going to make a
little plug here for thisClaymore sword behind me and I'm
going to send you Deacon.
If you know, and just to remindpeople that are new to the show
that Claymore Miletus Christi isright on our website you go to
jp2reneworg, jp2reneworg or goto resources and you can
(27:09):
download the outline of thatbattle plan and what it does
Deacon for the people that we'reworking with is it helps you
disciple multiple young people,because what happens is, you
know, we only have so muchbandwidth, so much time, and so
if you meet somebody and I'mspeaking to our whole audience
here as you meet somebody, don'tlet them fall through the
(27:30):
cracks.
These young people.
If you let them fall throughthe cracks, they'll get excited
for a while and the world willsweep them away.
So when you see that, just lookat Claymore, download it.
And I asked the other person todownload it and the whole
outline is there.
It's John Paul II's three-partblueprint for taking back the
individual human heart, marriageand the family, and then going
(27:53):
out into the vineyard andrestoring the culture, and it's
all there laid out.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
That's building from inside out right.
Yes, sir you got to fixyourself first.
You can't do it unless you fixyourself Deacon.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
Frank say that again.
You got to fix who first.
You got to fix yourself first.
Yes, you do, and that is righton.
If you look at Claymore,miletus Christi, it starts with
the individual human heart.
Schultz and Eason said that.
Do you remember Alexander?
Schultz and Eason said he's ina gulag, he comes out and he
said I figured out.
(28:26):
You know, marxism is wrongbecause we forgot about original
sin and it always starts in theindividual human heart.
That most of the evil.
You and I started talking aboutevil right in the beginning of
the show.
Most of the evil.
John Paul would say the samething.
Out in the world are men andwomen cooperating with the evil
(28:47):
one.
Most of the evil right.
Abortion again, all thosethings that we brought up, the
trans things, the human sextrafficking, the fentanyl,
that's, human beings that theirhearts have been twisted right
and distorted Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Now I know you want to go to my article on.
Mary's perpetual virginity.
I do.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
We're going to run out of time aren't we?
So let's do this then.
The main point and I want tomake sure we cover that first.
The main point is how aboutthese brothers and sisters?
We hear about Deacon, frank andthe gospel.
That's the main thing.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
You know, one of the things we have to recognize is
that Mary's perpetual virginityis a dogma of the Catholic faith
, which means it's the highestteaching.
Okay, and for Catholic in goodstanding, all dogmas must be
believed.
So how does this jive with ourreading of sacred scripture?
(29:42):
Well, all of the easternMediterranean in the fourth
century BC and was in existenceright up to 600.
That was the common language.
(30:03):
Many of the figures in the NewTestament have two different
names and that's because theyhave a Greek name and they have
a Hebrew name.
Mark's name is Greek, hisHebrew name is John.
He's John Mark, but we call himMark.
He's the author of the secondgospel and you can look at
numerous examples Matthew andLevi, right, same person.
(30:27):
Levi is the Hebrew name,matthew is the Greek name.
Okay, so Koine Greek was thecommon language spoken amongst
the Eastern Mediterranean upuntil 600 AD.
Now this dogma was pronouncedat a ecumenical council in 553,
(30:51):
at the Second Council ofConstantinople.
Now, all of the EasternCatholic bishops that were
present would have known KoineGreek.
In Koine Greek, the word forbrother and sister is adelphoi,
and it didn't only mean brotherand sister, it meant cousin, it
(31:16):
meant sister-in-law,brother-in-law, a whole series
of relationships.
A good example of this is andit's written in the Gospels,
where Jesus is on the cross, andin John's Gospel it makes
reference to the fact and belowthe cross, at the foot of the
cross, was his mother and hismother's sister, mary of Clopas.
(31:41):
Now, taking that, you say, ifthey're truly sisters, if
Adelphoi only means sisters,then that means St Joachim and
St Anne named two of theirdaughters, mary.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
Yes, what's the logic of that Not going to happen?
So?
Speaker 2 (31:58):
it's sister-in-law in that case, right.
And the case with the brothersand sisters that are referenced
in the Gospels.
You know, mark mentions severalof them, right, they are
cousins and they are children ofMary Clopas and that's in
Scripture too, right DeaconFrank?
(32:19):
Yes, yes, yes, it makesreference to two of the four
that are mentioned as being sonsof Mary of Clopas.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
Yes, the other thing is that you mentioned in the
article is that Jesus turns toJohn.
He says to John you know, thisis your mother now, right?
In other words and here's yourson that Jesus wouldn't have
done that if he had other actualsiblings around, right?
So you?
Speaker 2 (32:48):
want to just touch on that real quick because I
thought that was a great point.
You know, jewish tradition wasthat.
You know it was very tribal,very family oriented, right.
And so it would have been atremendous dishonor to his
mother, mm-hmm, and to his if hehad siblings, his siblings for
doing that To give his motheraway to somebody.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
That wasn't related Correct, he wouldn't have done
that right, correct, correct,yeah, so these are great.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
You made great points in there.
The other one that I think is,you know, I love the Old
Testament.
I grew up, you know, reallyliking Matthew's gospel because
of all of these prophecies thatare included in it, and so I
started, as I got older, startedto read the Old Testament and
there's a wealth of informationthere, and one of the things
(33:36):
that the Old Testament does istopology.
There's topology is the studyof what the Old Testament
prophesizes is fulfilled in theNew Testament.
And one of the things is the Arkof the Covenant, and in the Ark
of the Covenant there was thisthere was the box that God asked
.
You know it was the holiestobject that there was kept in
(33:58):
the holy of holies and no onecould touch it.
And you know, it was justextremely holy, it was the
presence of God on earth.
Extremely holy, it was thepresence of God on earth.
And Mary is the new Ark of theCovenant because she carried God
himself and one prefigures whatis ultimately fulfilled, and so
(34:19):
the thing that Mary wouldn't bepure and not have any, you know
, the Ark of the Covenant.
There's an example wheresomeone actually touches the Ark
of the Covenant, drops dead,Drops dead.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
You know, it's such a holy image that you just
painted that it would almost bein my mind right, and as you're
in the church long enough, itwould almost be like there's no
way that Mary didn't stay pure.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
We would go the other way and you just when I'm
speaking to my Protestantfriends and evangelical friends,
sometimes they have a strugglewith this, but I think if they
really sat on it, Deacon, likeyou just brought out with it,
you know, looking back at theOld Testament, the New Testament
, thinking that this is Godhimself takes on a body, and
look at the Old Testament, theNew Testament, thinking that
this is God himself takes on abody, and look at the privilege
(35:12):
that this woman had.
I mean, sometimes I think ofour Blessed Mother and I think,
you know, God actually took ahuman being and now she's the
Queen of Heaven.
There's no way that she didn'tstay pure.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
There's no way Before this dogma was pronounced in
553, two of the most famous ofthe church fathers you know,
those are the earliest men thatwrote orthodoxy and two that are
prominent.
One is Jerome, who translatedthe entire Bible Old and New
Testament into one language, theLatin, which was called the
(35:45):
Latin Vulgate, as well as StAthanasius who, in 325, was a
deacon at the first council ofNicaea with a Nicene Creed, that
which we Catholics recite everySunday.
He was the author of much ofthat document.
(36:06):
Athanasius and both of them, intheir writings, write about
Mary's perpetual virginity.
Yeah, this was early, early,early, early on, you're talking
about two very yeah right, onein the beginning of the fourth
century and the other one at theend of the fourth century.
And this dogma came intoexistence in the sixthth century
(36:27):
, 553 AD.
So I have no doubts of Mary'sperpetual virginity.
In fact, you know, if youreally look for answers and
search for the truth, you'llfind it.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
And.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
Mary's perpetual virginity is the truth.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
Yeah, and you brought it up and I'll make sure I link
your.
You know a number of yourarticles.
I'll link at least a couple ofthese in the show notes so
people have them.
The other thing you did is youbrought up in the Old Testament
there was a precedent for thisalready that people would
actually spouses, would getmarried, and yet they took a vow
(37:07):
of virginity Perpetualvirginity.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
And if the husband, did not that person if that
woman get married?
And yet they took a vow ofvirginity Perpetual virginity
and if?
the husband did not, that person, that woman, got married.
If the husband did not rejectit on the day he was told, then
it stayed in full force andeffect.
That's in Numbers, chapter 30.
One thing I did want to mentionif anyone is interested in
reading any of my articles, thelink that they can type in is
(37:28):
Catholic Exchange, deacon Frank.
You can type in CatholicExchange, deacon Frank.
There'll be a link that'll popup.
You can hit that link and allof my 19 articles will appear.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
You're a treasure.
Any last parting advice forthese young people coming in, I
mean, it's exciting to be ableto be with them, to walk with
them, to talk with them.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
But parting word to these young men and women that
are searching for the truth.
As I said, Jesus is the truthand he wants us to believe with
our whole hearts that he is theone set apart by God to be our
redemption, the source of ourredemption.
And we are called to truediscipleship, which means 24-7,
(38:19):
being committed to living a lifeof true discipleship and making
a difference in our lives forthe betterment of others.
The old Baltimore Catechism,which I grew up in you may have
grown up with it says why didGod create us?
That was the very firstquestion, and the answer was to
know him, to love him and toserve him so as to be with him
(38:41):
in the next life.
Okay, and that order is veryimportant, you must first know
him.
You can't love him and servehim unless you first know him,
and the best source for knowinghim is the scriptures and the
church.
The second is to serve to love,and that love will come through
(39:01):
knowledge.
And then, lastly, when you haveknowledge and love, the service
becomes very easy.
Don't put that.
That order is very importantfor anyone listening.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
You can't give what you don't have.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
It's knowledge, love and service.
Correct.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
Can't give what you don't have.
Hey, God bless you, Deaconthank you so much.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
Thanks for your time.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
Thanks for being with us.
Thanks, everyone.
Talk to you again soon.
Bye-bye.
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