July 8, 2025 • 41 mins
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What if the money system itself is designed to work against your values? Eric Sammons, editor-in-chief of Crisis Magazine and author of "Moral Money: The Case for Bitcoin," makes a compelling case that our current monetary system is fundamentally immoral.
Government-issued currencies like the US dollar can be created at will, funding unpopular wars and expensive programs while devaluing the money citizens hold. This forces people into increasingly risky investments just to maintain their savings against inflation's constant erosion.
For young people today, perhaps hoping to get married some day and start families, this creates what Sammons calls "financial nihilism" - a sense that long-term planning is pointless when the system is stacked against them.
Whether you're a tech enthusiast or just concerned about the moral implications of our financial system, this conversation challenges conventional thinking about money. Discover why Sammons believes Bitcoin might be the most moral form of money ever created.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Welcome to the Become who you Are podcast, a
production of the John Paul IIRenewal Center.
I'm Jack Riggert, your host.
Special welcome to young peoplewho have been joining us,
especially young men who arepart of Claymore.
You see the big Claymore swordbehind me.
Miletus Christi Soldiers forChrist.
What we all seem to have incommon is that we know
something's very wrong with theworld and as we draw closer to
(00:35):
Jesus Christ and his church andtry to do good things in the
world, we know from a purelypractical and prudent place.
We need to diversify, we needto figure out what's going on
and how to save and store money.
Should I buy some gold, somesilver?
And inevitably the questioncomes up what about Bitcoin?
Should I own it?
Here to discuss Bitcoin with ustoday is Eric Sammons, who wrote
(00:58):
a second book on Bitcoin MoralMoney the Case for Bitcoin.
Eric is the editor-in-chief ofCrisis Magazine.
He holds a degree in systemsanalysis with a concentration in
economics from Miami Universityin Ohio, as well as a master's
degree in theology fromFranciscan University of
(01:18):
Steubenville.
He's the author of severalother books, including Deadly
Indifference how the Church LostHer Mission and how we Can
Reclaim it.
Bitcoin Basics 101 Questionsand Answers, and the Old
Evangelization how to Spread theFaith Like Jesus Did.
Eric worked for more than 15years in the software
(01:40):
development field, including 10years with his own software firm
.
He also spent five years as thedirector of evangelization for
the Diocese of Venice in Florida.
Eric, welcome.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Thank you so much for having me, Jack.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
I really do appreciate it Well, you have a
business and an entrepreneurialmind, plus a love for Jesus
Christ and this church.
So I would imagine that you gotyour degree in systems analysis
first and then went on to get amaster's in theology.
But I could be wrong, that'sright.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
I was systems analysis and I worked as a
software developer for manyyears started a couple different
companies, actually, and then Iended up getting my master's
degree in theology and thentransitioned into doing more
work for the church.
I worked for a diocese for fiveyears as a director of
evangelization.
I've edited a number ofCatholic books and written some,
(02:31):
and, of course, now I'm theeditor of Crisis.
So yeah, basically I startedoff, though, as a software
developer for many years andthen I moved into more
church-related work.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Yeah, I have a very similar background to that and
there's something very practical, very good about, I think,
stepping into the church thatway, right, Were you a cradle
Catholic.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
No, I'm actually a convert.
I became Catholic in college.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Okay, without sucking up too much bandwidth here.
What was the impetus for that?
Without sucking up too muchbandwidth here what was the
impetus for that?
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Really it was.
I was the only Protestant in mypro-life college group.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Is that right?
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Yeah, I mean the only real active one.
We had a college pro-life group.
A lot of people would come andgo, but the core members were
about a dozen and it was allCatholics and me.
And so I really started to beconcerned I was a United
Methodist about the Methodistnews on abortion.
And that just put me down arabbit hole and because I
(03:34):
started thinking I need to joinanother denomination At the time
I was thinking something likePresbyterian or Southern Baptist
or non-denominational,something like that.
But the more I looked into it Ireally came to the question well
, what's to keep them from oneday changing their teachings on
abortion?
Because of course the Methodistsstarted off pro-life and then
they became pro-abortion.
Who's to say that SouthernBaptists won't change or the
(03:56):
Evangelicals won't change?
And I remember asking aCatholic friend like how do you
know the Catholic Church won'tchange its position on abortion
someday?
And it was funny because Istill remember we were standing
on the sidewalk at MiamiUniversity and he looked at me
like I was just crazy, like itwas the dumbest question he'd
ever heard.
He was very nice to me but hebasically was like you just
don't get it, it can't happen,it just can't happen, and he
(04:19):
explained it, of course, more indetail than that.
But that really set off myjourney to Catholicism, because
I started to realize that theCatholic Church was just
different, that it wasn't thesame as the Protestant
denominations.
I looked at it like just onemore denomination, which is a
little weirder, but just adenomination, and so ultimately
then, a few years later, Idecided to become Catholic.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Yeah, well, I'll tell you what you just hit on, I
think, when we're talking toyoung guys, eric and again,
claymore is this logo, thisClaymore sword is the logo for
this apostolate we have withinour apostolate for young men,
and that's what they're doing,that's what they're saying.
They said, you know, we wantsomething with roots, right,
that you know, when I'm, youknow, 10 years older, 20 years
(05:04):
older, everything hasn't changedand I just wasted 10 or 20
years of my life.
So this is powerful.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
This is powerful what you just said, yeah, Thanks for
sharing that.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Well, you wrote a wonderful book Moral Money on
Bitcoin, and when you describeit in the book, you describe
Bitcoin, how it works, and butyou went on to describe it as
moral money, the most moralmoney ever created.
And I don't know where you wantto start, because it's such a
wonderful book and you hit a lotof things, but but.
But what did you mean by moralmoney?
(05:35):
That's the, that's the title.
So we might as well we might aswell start there.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Well, it really started for me years ago.
Bitcoin came into existence in2009.
Even before that, I started torecognize the immorality of our
current money and that reallystarted to understand that the
way our current money and by ourcurrent money I mean the
government issued fiat currencyknown as the US dollar or
whatever country you might be in, in which government officials
(06:03):
can simply create more money outof thin air if they want more
money.
So if they want to do a pushthrough a new social program,
they want to fund an unpopularwar, whatever they want to do,
they can just create more money.
But, of course, knowing basiceconomics like I said, I studied
that some in college and on myown as well I realized if they
(06:25):
create more money, that devaluesthe money that all the rest of
us hold, and so that's reallylike taking money from us, and
we see this very clearly ininflation.
The fact that we're just usedto the fact that everything
costs more now than it did inthe past.
We're used to our grandparentssaying I remember when a gallon
of milk costs, you know, 20cents or whatever the case may
(06:45):
be, and we just take that asnormal.
But it's not normal, itshouldn't be normal, because
really that's theft.
You should be able, the averagecitizen should be able, to save
their money in a veryconservative way.
Just put heck even put it undertheir mattress if they want to
in a safe at home and it shouldbe worth the same amount, or
(07:06):
generally the same amount, inthe future.
But what we have is because ofour immoral monetary system.
Today you have to haveeverybody has to be buying
stocks, looking at what's thelatest tech stock.
What do I need to do to investto get the best return?
And we're all doing it justsimply to keep up with inflation
, to be a little bit ahead, sothat when we retire our money
(07:26):
will be worth something.
And so that really was thebeginning, was I realized well,
fiat money is immoral.
And that got me very interestedin gold and silver, because
those are very different,because government just can't
create new gold out of nothing.
You have to mine gold, you haveto spend money, you have to
spend energy to get more gold.
(07:47):
But of course, there's problemswith gold in today's world.
If I want to buy something fromAmazon, I can't ship them an
ounce of gold or whatever thecase may be to buy something If
I want to get something fromsomebody in California or what
have you.
It's just simply not possible.
Get something from somebody inCalifornia or what have you?
It's just simply not possible.
Even if I want to buy somethinglocally, am I going to really
(08:10):
lug around a whole bunch of goldpieces to the local grocery
store?
So it's not practical anymore.
And I kind of thought thisbefore Bitcoin even came into
being.
And then, when Bitcoin cameinto being, it was like a light
ball went off for me when Ifirst discovered in 2013.
I thought, wait a second.
This money has the propertiesof gold and even some better
(08:30):
properties, and but yet itdoesn't have the but yet also
has the ability to transactonline and person to person very
easily, very quickly, theperson very easily, very quickly
.
And so for me that was like alight bulb and over time I
started to realize it's reallymoral money, meaning you just
(08:52):
can't create new Bitcoin out ofthin air.
I can't just say, hey, I wantsome more Bitcoin, I'm just
going to create some more, andso that really makes it have
those moral properties of goldwith the effectiveness and
usefulness of our currentmonetary system.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Yeah, it's an amazing chapter.
It's your first chapter whereyou start to talk about the
eight reasons.
You know that make it moremoney, right?
I remember you know, one of thethings that you hit with so
clear is this industrial,military-industrial complex.
We have going right and we justprint more money to fund these
wars and then we have to pay itback.
(09:28):
So what do we do?
We raise inflation so that wepay it back with cheaper dollars
, which robs all of us again ofour futures, moving us, as you
make the point, into riskier andriskier assets all the time,
and my mom and dad, who arestill alive, almost 100 years
old, are still.
They have to own risky you know, quasi-risky assets, because if
(09:49):
they would have stopped 10years ago or 20 years ago, it
would have eroded.
And then you addressed alsothat this is really another
thing for young people, isn't it?
You say something like thefinancial nihilism we see among
young people today.
This is important.
This is an important point?
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Yeah, I think so, very much so, because I've had a
lot.
You know, I have my ownchildren are now at the age.
My older children are at theage where they're getting
married, they're startingfamilies of their own, and I
talk to them, I talk to theirfriends, I talk to other young
people I know, and I realizedthey really do have some hurdles
I did not have when I was inthe same spot 30 years ago, and
(10:29):
those hurdles are the fact thatthe money has gotten so devalued
, inflation has gotten so out ofcontrol over the years, like,
for example, when the 2008crisis hit.
The answer of the governmentwas just flood the economy with
more money, and so what happens,though, is like people like the
fact that their houses go up invalue over time.
So, for example, you bought ahouse in 1980 for $100,000.
(10:52):
It's going to be worth maybe amillion dollars today.
The problem is, though, now ayoung person has to go and buy
the house for a million dollars,and wages have not gone up the
same way that the price of thesegoods have gone up.
So you have a young person, doeseverything right, so they work
hard in school, they graduatewith a nice degree, which they
probably had to get a huge loanfor again because of the
(11:15):
financial system we're in.
And then they go get a good joband they're like I'm going to
work hard, I'm going to supportmy family, particularly thinking
of, maybe, the young Catholicmen who want to support their
family and let their, theirwives stay at home with the kids
, and they want to do that.
But, oh my goodness, in mostareas of the country with most
jobs, that's very, that's verydifficult.
(11:38):
That is, that is a realstruggle.
And so I really see, you see, acertain financial nihilism, I
call it, where they just kind ofgive up I can't do it.
I can't do the American dream.
It's not alive for me, and Ithink they're right in a lot of
ways, and so I want to look foralternatives for them.
I want to look for ways notrisky, like crazy stuff, like
(12:00):
okay, let's try to find somepenny stock, you put all your
money into that, or somethinglike that, but something that I
think is a long-term solid formof money.
And I know there are peoplelistening to this right now
saying wait a second.
You're saying don't get intorisky investments.
Yet you're also advocating forBitcoin.
Isn't Bitcoin the riskyinvestment and I think that's
one of the reasons for the booktoo is I'm trying to debunk that
(12:24):
myth, that stereotype, thatBitcoin is this super risky
investment.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Let's talk about that a little bit.
First of all, what is Bitcoin?
I mean, there are people sayingwhat is Bitcoin?
And then to go on to whatyou're just asking right now,
isn't that a risky way to storemoney and why should it hold up?
Why should it hold up and whyis it going to keep the value
Right?
A risky way to store moneyRight, and why and why should it
hold?
Speaker 2 (12:46):
up?
Why should it hold up and whyis it going to keep the value
Right?
And I think I like answeringthe question what is Bitcoin?
By first saying what it is not,and this is going to be a
provocative statement.
People are going to be likewhat are you talking about?
Bitcoin is not an investment.
Bitcoin is not an investment.
Bitcoin is savings.
It's a form of money.
That's fundamentally what itwas when it was created.
It wasn't created SatoshiNakamoto, the synonymous person
(13:10):
who created Bitcoin.
He didn't create it as like OK,this is a get rich quick scheme
, this is an investment that youcan build on.
We're going to build whatever.
No, it was created as a form ofmoney, just like gold is a form
of money.
Now, I know people invest ingold, but really I would call,
when you buy gold, savings,because what the difference is
between savings and investmentis savings is basically you're
(13:34):
just holding on to your moneyand you're not spending it.
Investment is when you takethat money and you want to
invest it in some business, someopportunity, maybe real estate,
something like that, whereyou're trying to grow your money
beyond just what you have.
The problem is, savings doesn'texist in our current system,
(14:02):
because if you just hold yourcash, for example your dollars,
even if it's in a savingsaccount at the bank, you
technically lose money Becausewith inflation, your money is
going to devalue over time anddevalues by five to six percent
each year.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
It's amazing, yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
And so.
So really, we don't even knowwhat savings is anymore.
But Bitcoin is savings.
It's a form of money and thereason it is that the number one
reason.
There's multiple reasons, butthe number one reason is because
it's scarce, meaning there's alimited amount of Bitcoin ever
available in the world and thatnumber cannot be artificially
(14:30):
increased by anybody.
And so there will be 21 millionBitcoin created and it's
created over time.
Most of it's already beencreated like over 19 million of
it's already been created.
The point is that that makes itscarce and that is what keeps
the value of a form of money.
Gold, for example, is scarce.
(14:51):
You can't just create gold outof nothing.
But, for example, they saythere's gold potentially in
asteroids.
If we found a way to verycheaply mine gold on asteroids
and bring it here Like I hear,there's like billions and
billions of tons that wouldactually devalue the price of
gold.
Gold would go down in valuebecause the market would be
flooded.
(15:11):
That simply can't happen withBitcoin.
There's a limit, there's afixed limit.
That is basically bymathematics I mean.
It's like fundamentalmathematics.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Which you describe really well.
You took a pretty complexsubject right and boiled it down
.
I mean, I would love to meetthe inventor of this.
Oh yeah, we all would.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
I mean, if you think about it, what governs forms of
money With things like gold andsilver?
It's really physics thatgoverns that money, the supply
of the money, I should say,because there's only so much you
can get out of the ground,things like that.
How much is there?
Fiat, like currency, likedollars?
That is governed by man, and by, typically, man.
(15:53):
We all know how fallen man is,and so when we want to create
more, you're going to.
Bitcoin is governed bymathematics.
It basically just is there's acertain, there's a, there's an
algorithm, there's a certainformula that says here's how
many Bitcoin is going to be, andit's just set and because of
that, bitcoin maintains itsvalue.
Now I know you'll hear the newsstories.
(16:13):
I went down 20 percent, 30percent.
It went up like this.
But you need to, you need tolook out of, zoom out a bit.
In the 16 years that Bitcoinhas been in existence, it's gone
up more than anything else, anyother asset in the world, by
like way, way more.
I mean literally.
When I wrote my first book,bitcoin Basics.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
What year did you write that?
Speaker 2 (16:35):
I meant to ask you 2015,.
I wrote that that was 10 yearsago.
I wrote that when I publishedthat book, bitcoin was worth
about $330.
Today maybe it was $500.
It's right around there, anyway$300 to $500.
Today, one Bitcoin is worthover $100,000.
So clearly it's gone up invalue.
And that's not because ofsomebody in the background, some
(16:59):
inside person in the back roomkind of inflating it whatever.
No, that's just because peoplehave realized there's value to
something with a fixed supplylike this.
Now, personally, I think overtime, over a long enough time
eventually, that the increaseswill not be as radical, but also
the decreases will not be asradical.
(17:20):
It will not fluctuate as much,not be as volatile Something
early on, inuate as much, not beas volatile Something early on
in its history.
People are trying to price itout like what is this really
worth?
You're going to have a lot ofvolatility, but over time, as
more people save money inBitcoin, as more people own it,
it will eventually become lessvolatile.
I do think it will go up a lotin price from what it is now,
but it's not going to be thecraziness we've seen over the
(17:43):
first.
Like I said, I've been involvedfor 12 years.
So I've seen it go like.
I've literally seen it go downby 80%, go up by 500%, you know
in short periods of time, butthat's already.
I think that's already slowingdown, it's becoming already more
stable, but I still think it'sgoing to go up.
But that's how.
That's why I don't think it's arisky investment.
I shouldn't say I don't thinkit's a risky investment.
(18:05):
I think it's solid savings forthe long-term.
Yeah, you could buy someBitcoin today, and next week it
could be worth less.
I don't deny that.
But over the long-term five, 10, 15 years it's going to be a
good savings vehicle for yourmoney.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
I could see that already.
The speculators were there inthe beginning, right, the
investors, as you called themearlier, and now the guys I know
that own Bitcoin.
They're buying, but they're notselling.
They're incrementally adding alittle bit more, but, yeah, they
have no desire to sell this.
They're using it for savings,just like you said.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Exactly, it's using it for savings because it's a
better form of money.
There's something on Grisham'sLaw in economics and that says
that the worst form of money isthe type that's always used as
spent first.
If you have two different formsof money, you're going to take
gold coins and the governmentwould kind of shave them down.
So they'd say, oh, this is anounce of gold, but it actually
(19:06):
wouldn't be, because they putother metals in it.
People would realize what thatwas.
They would keep the ounce thatwas truly a full ounce of gold
and they would spend the fakeounce out there in the world.
The same thing is starting tohappen here, where people who
own Bitcoin are like well, I'mgoing to spend my dollars first
and I'm going to hold on to myBitcoin because I know my
(19:29):
Bitcoin is going to hold value,whereas my dollars won't.
Now, obviously, there's timesthat you're going to spend your
Bitcoin if it's a large purchaseand you had to dip into your
savings.
We all have those situations.
But your day to day, you'realways going to think first,
spend my dollars first and thenonly if necessary, will I spend
my.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Bitcoin.
It makes perfect sense, as youmentioned, with these young
people.
They're spending their moneybecause they have this
nihilistic view that my money isgoing to be worth less anyways
later on, so I might as wellspend it now while it's worth
more.
I mean, how sad is that?
Right it's?
Speaker 2 (20:00):
not only sad, but I think it's evil because it's
designed that way.
Our money is designed to bespent and so it really does.
The consumerism, the crazyconsumerism we have in the world
today.
That's not by accident, that'sby design.
If you look at Keynesianeconomics and the whole.
I won't go into all the details, but the point is is that with
fiat money, they want you tospend money.
(20:21):
They want you to spend money.
They want you to spend andconsume because they think
that's how you drive an economy.
Now, hopefully, catholicsunderstand that there's more to
life than just consumerism andjust spending money.
But that's what's happening toyoung people.
They're just like well, if mydollar today is going to be
worth 50 cents in a couple ofyears, I might as well spend it
(20:41):
today on something for a dollarrather than it going down in
value, and then they have nosavings.
So I really feel like Bitcoinand I've seen this in real life.
It's a real outlet for youngpeople in particular.
I know I've listened to Bitcoinpodcasts.
I know people where they willsay I mean, I know people who
aren't Catholic but they'reChristian.
(21:02):
They they got pregnant becausethey felt like they gave their
child because of Bitcoin, theyfelt like, ok, they were
financially insecure.
Now I know, as Catholics, wehave a different understanding
of being open to life and allthat, but still the point is is
like the Bitcoin is pointingthem in the right direction of
instead of the fiat currency,which points them to just spend
now, don't think long term.
(21:23):
Instead of the fiat currency,which points them to just spend
now, don't think long term,bitcoin makes them think, ok,
long term, more deep things likebringing a new life into the
world.
So I've seen that happenno-transcript.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
You make the case really well in the book.
What is a dollar really?
It's not backed by anything and, to your point, we can just
print more, print less, and itreally destabilizes.
And the more you look into it,eric, unfortunately, the more
nefarious this whole situationgets.
But you called Bitcoin freedommoney.
(21:57):
What angle are you looking atthere?
Maybe we touched on some ofthat already.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
I think the story that brings out freedom, money
the best is recently, just a fewyears ago, if people remember
the Canadian trucker protest.
Yes, that the Canadian truckerswere protesting, the
restrictions from COVID andthings like that.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
I did some podcasts on that.
Yeah, yeah, I did too.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
How they took their yeah.
They took their trucks and theywent into the cities and all
that.
And what happened was is theCanadian government basically
shut down their bank accountsand even took their money from
their bank accounts, thedonations that had been given
because they asked for donations, people were giving, like on
GoFundMe or whatever.
That's right and the Canadiangovernment just took that.
(22:40):
Well, they also had a Bitcoinaddress available to donate to,
and I donated to that, knowingthey can't take that money.
That's going to be theirs andso that's freedom money that you
can use it when there's anoppressive government and you
know there's oppressivegovernments have been.
I know in America we don't thinkof that as much, and you know
there's oppressive governmentshave been.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
I know in America we don't think of that as much
Although maybe I'll tell youwhat we felt that even on this
show is a show.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
I'm sure you felt it with crisis.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
You know that pressure was coming down, eric.
Yeah, I think if Trump didn'tget in oh yeah, it would have
been the Bitcoin would have beenlooking really good right now.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
From that standpoint, you would have really felt it.
Yeah, you see, things likePayPal.
They were doing restrictions.
They've kind of backed off fromthat because of Trump, I think,
but they were doing things likewhere they weren't going to
allow you to use their servicesif they didn't approve of your
policy.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
We had to diversify from that.
Yeah, exactly, the fear of thatdidn't happen to us.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
What Bitcoin does.
It allows you to say the greatthing yes, you can hold Bitcoin
at a company exchange like ariver, or Coinbase, something
like that, and that's fine insome ways and that could be
taken from you.
But the great thing aboutBitcoin is there are ways you
can hold it personally andsecurely that nobody on Earth
(23:56):
can take from you unless yougive them access to it.
And so it really is when we'retalking about, particularly as
people of the Catholic faith, weknow we have a long history of
being persecuted.
We have a long history andwe're still being persecuted
throughout the world, and realpersecution too.
I mean, think about your Muslimcountries, places like that.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
And so having the ability— Pope Leo just wrote
about 200, you know that wereslain in.
Was it Nigeria?
Where was it?
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Yes, I think it was Nigeria.
I can't, but yeah, and so thefreedom.
Money means simply that you can.
You're free to, you don't haveto have that your persecutors
tell you how you spend yourmoney, and because really,
that's how you cancel people intoday's world.
That's the persecution thathappens in the Western world and
America mostly is you cut off aperson's ability to make money
(24:44):
and to spend money, because onceyou do that, you've got them
silenced, and so Bitcoin allowspeople to speak out and say hey,
you can not like what I say,but you can't shut me up because
of the fact that I have thisability to save money that you
can't touch.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
I remember the vision just came to me in China with
the social credit scores.
Oh yeah, and these people arejust living on the street and
you say, well, what happened?
And they took their money.
But you think, well, that's notgoing to happen here.
But what you just said, theydid it in Canada.
That's right, and those socialcredit scores were getting
really popular with BlackRockand et cetera, et cetera et
cetera right.
So what a great point.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
I also want to bring up a confusion some people have,
and that is something calledcentral bank digital currencies,
CBDCs.
Those are cryptocurrencies thatare built kind of with some of
the technology that Bitcoininvented, but they're controlled
100% by governments, and sothey're like the evil twin of
Bitcoin.
I call them In that, yes, theyhave the technology in some ways
(25:46):
not in important ways, but insome ways is similar, but it
allows for 100%, completegovernment control.
So when we say Bitcoin isfreedom money, you might be
thinking, oh, wait a minute, butcan't they control that,
Because you hear about CBDCs?
No, it's the exact opposite.
They can't control Bitcoin.
That's why they want people touse CBDCs, because those would
(26:07):
be completely controlled by thegovernment.
Fortunately, Trump has alreadycome out against those, but who
knows, the next president mightnot.
So Bitcoin allows again a wayto escape from that type of
system where you have completecontrol over your money given
over to the government.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
You called Bitcoin in here, eric, the money of the
future, and I'm still trying toget my head around.
What you said earlier and whatyou made explicit in the book is
that we're only going to beable to print 21 million of
these.
We've already.
Print is the wrong word,obviously.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Yeah, I know what you mean.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Issue Issue 19 million already.
So can you talk to that alittle bit?
I mean, you know we sit herethinking, okay, well, how are we
going to have enough of this,you know, to actually work on
something and make it a savingsand not just an investment?
Speaker 2 (27:03):
again, it's a common economic mistake that people
make that you have to have acertain amount of money in an
economy, but that's actually nottrue.
You can have any amount ofmoney in an economy.
What matters is how divisibleis it?
Because one of two things willhappen.
When you have more economicactivity, more people, let's say
you just have more people in aneconomy and you have, let's say
(27:27):
, a million dollars in aneconomy and you have 100 people
in it, and so you just divide itup evenly, everybody gets a
certain amount.
Then, all of a sudden, you addanother 100 people, and now the
average is half if that happens.
But what that means is, though,because there's twice as many
people buying and selling, thevalue of that million actually,
each one of those goes up.
(27:48):
The other option would be youprint twice as much, and so you
print, you have two millions ofone million dollars, and then it
stays about the same as far aseach individual dollar, stays
about the same as far as eachindividual dollar.
So what happens is, in aneconomy where you have a fixed
monetary supply and you see thisin history with gold and things
like that is the value of eachone goes up.
So, for example and that's whatwe've seen it started off at
(28:11):
zero 16 years ago and now it'sover $100,000 each.
But it's divisible up to eightdecimal points, meaning you can
own 0.00001 Bitcoin.
For example, you can buy, forexample, $5 worth of Bitcoin
Today.
You could go on exchange, youcould buy $5 worth of Bitcoin,
you could buy $500,.
You could buy $5 million, $5billion.
(28:32):
All those are possible becauseyou just simply buy different
amounts.
So, for example, something thatcosts one Bitcoin today, if
everybody starts using Bitcoin,in 10 years, that same thing
might cost maybe one, onemillionth of a Bitcoin because
the value of it has gone up.
So your purchasing powerdoesn't decrease as it would in
(28:54):
an inflationary environment.
It stays the same and evenearly on in Bitcoin it goes up.
You can actually purchase moreover time.
I mean, one thing I like to dois I price things now in Bitcoin
to see like larger purchases,is it worth it Like?
Here's a story I could tell In2000,.
I think it was 16 or 17.
I think it was 17.
My daughter, my graduate highschool.
(29:16):
She needed a car.
So I went to the local cardealership and I bought a beater
car for like $2,000.
And I sold two Bitcoin to buythat, because that's one Bitcoin
is worth about $1,000 a time.
So I bought a car that, by theway, it broke down in about a
month.
It was a total lemon.
I was not happy by it, but Ispent two Bitcoin on that that
today.
If I saved, it would be worthover $200,000 today.
(29:38):
And I spent a lot of Bitcoin inmy time.
I don't mind mentioning I'veowned a lot of Bitcoin, but I've
actually spent a lot becauseearly on I didn't quite
understand the long-term whatBitcoin was when I first got
started, and so I kind ofchuckled about that now.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
The good thing about you don't lose your train of
thought on that story.
I'm good at this.
I think I'm getting ADHD as Iget older, Eric, but I think the
beauty of you is coming throughthis and that your second book
is that you're starting to getreal confidence in this story
where I think, even early on,you say okay, well, I got a
(30:13):
couple thousand dollars inBitcoin, probably should spend
some, just in case it doesn't.
But now you know, don't you?
That has some.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
And so now I price it in Bitcoin, I say, ok, if that
thing's going to cost me pointto Bitcoin today, let's say or
actually it'd be point zero,zero two Bitcoin today is two
thousand dollars.
If it costs me that, do I thinkthat's worth it for that to
spend point zero, zero twoBitcoin?
Or do I think, you know, orshould I just hold on to it?
(30:42):
And that is actually one of mymain points, also in moral money
, is it's forcing me intolong-term prudent, temperant
behavior.
Instead of saying, okay, spendnow because the money is not
going to be worth anything soon,I'm actually.
It's actually fostering thevirtue of temperance in my
decision making and so now I'mlike it doesn't mean I won't
(31:02):
spend it.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
What a great point, especially for young people, for
all of us, but for young peopleespecially.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
I mean, if I really need the car, I'm going to buy
the car.
I mean I just have to get it.
But it does tell me, okay, do Ineed that big screen TV?
I have a 50 inch TV.
Do I need a 60 inch?
Is it worth that point?
You know, zero to Bitcoin.
When I look at like that, I'mlike, well, I don't think it
really is, because I know that'sgoing to be worth a lot more in
(31:27):
the future, whereas with mydollars, if I say, oh, I'm going
to spend a thousand dollars onthat or something, whatever big
screen TVs cost these days, Idon't even know If I'm going to
spend a thousand dollars on thattoday.
Well, that's going to be worthlike five hundred dollars in a
few years.
Well, that's going to be worthlike $500 in a few years.
So might as well buy it.
Now you see how the wholethinking changes, and I know a
(31:48):
lot of people who've been inBitcoin for a while and we all
testify to this that over time,I mean, my dad taught me how to
be prudent, how to be temperate,how to be frugal, all that.
So I thank him first andforemost because he was the one
who taught me that, but it'slike a check.
It really does make you thinkbefore you buy.
And we live in this consumerculture where we always are
(32:09):
satisfying our wants instead ofour needs.
And it's not that you can't buythings you want sometimes, but
it just makes you think do Ireally want to do I really need
to get that right now?
No, I don't think I do, and Ifound that for me, I just buy
less stuff once I started toprice it.
In fact, I even have an app onmy browser.
It just came out recently andit literally converts all
(32:32):
dollars on a screen prices toBitcoin, so it tells you what
the price is in Bitcoin.
So I'm actually kind of doingthat.
So I know what's this going tocost me in Bitcoin, because
that's really what I'm saving inand I'm less likely to spend on
just dumb stuff than I would ifI was pricing it in dollars.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
Yes, thank you, If I was going to buy.
I don't have any Bitcoin, say,and I don't have 100 grand, but
I wanted to buy a part of this.
Where do I even start?
Because I know you've got topay a little bit, too, in
trading costs.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
Absolutely, Absolutely.
And I think there's a number ofplaces Now I've been involved
long enough with Bitcoin to knowa lot of places.
I just need to be very clearabout this.
Companies that sell and buyBitcoin have gone under, have
stolen funds, have you know?
All these things have happenedin the past.
It's getting a lot better thanit was.
I mean, literally the monthafter I first got started in
Bitcoin, the largest exchange inthe world went under and
(33:26):
basically lost all the Bitcoinfor its users.
So I mean, that was years ago,that was 2014.
Now we're in 2025.
It doesn't happen as much.
So first, I'd say, go totrusted companies.
The one I like the best,honestly, is called Rivercom and
you can buy and sell Bitcointhere and when you're first
getting started so do I sign upthen, as like an account.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
Derek, is that what I do?
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Yes, it's like signing up kind of like with a
bank really.
I mean, you're signing up withthem.
You have to give them personalinformation, like you would with
a bank, because they have lawsthey have to follow.
They're an American company,they, they have to follow
American laws.
I don't like all those laws,but we live in a society where
we have to follow them, so Ifollow them.
But the thing is you sign upand then basically you connect
(34:08):
your bank account to it and yousay, okay, I want to buy $100
worth of Bitcoin and they willtake the $100 out of your bank
and they will give you $100worth of Bitcoin.
Now, like you said, there arefees involved.
Usually they're pretty minor,like maybe a buck or two or
something on a hundred dollarpurchase, and so you get that
and you can just hold yourBitcoin there Like you basically
have a login with them.
They have security.
(34:29):
I like their security the best.
That's one reason why I likeRiver the best and they just
hold it and that's fine.
When you're first gettingstarted, over time, if you feel
like the Bitcoin you own isgetting substantial, then I
recommend you find ways.
I'm not going to go into allthe details here, but you find
(34:50):
ways to hold it yourself andthere's secure methods called
hardware wallets that you canhold the Bitcoin.
It makes it a lot moredifficult, for you're not
beholden to a company goingbankrupt or being dishonest
essentially is what it does,because it's like holding cash
in your wallet at home orsomething like that, or holding
gold in a safe at home orsomething like that.
There's always security risks,no matter what, but it just
(35:11):
eliminates some of thosethird-party risks where you're
trusting a third party.
But if you're just holding alittle bit, you know it's just
something that you're like hey,I want to put a little bit in
here.
I have a few hundred dollars.
I mean, what a little bit isdifferent.
If somebody listening to thisis a multi-multi millionaire,
they might think $100,000 is alittle bit.
I mean, you and me we're notthinking that probably.
But yeah, whatever you think isnot super significant, it's
(35:32):
okay, I think, to hold it at athird party, but eventually, if
it starts to become a moresubstantial amount of your
savings portfolio, then I wouldsuggest learning how.
It's a learning curve, you haveto learn it of holding it, and
the great thing is is there's somany ways now than there used
to be.
(35:52):
When I first got started, youreally had to be a tech person
which I am to hold your ownBitcoin.
So I didn't mind, but I knew itwas just too hard.
When my sister wanted to getinvolved I was like, ah, it
might be too tough for her tofigure.
I don't want her to lose itbecause she makes a mistake on
her end.
Same with my kids.
I was like, okay, I got to makesure.
But now they've just got tools.
There's this tool called BitKey, which is like a hardware
(36:13):
wallet.
Know, those are some options,but we're kind of if you first
want to get started, just go toa place like rivercom, buy a
little Bitcoin, hold it there,get comfortable with it.
Get comfortable with it Exactly, understand it more before you
really go all in.
(36:33):
That's the other thing I alwayssay is like I don't give
financial advice.
I'm not telling people whatthey do or should not do with
their money, but I always dothink it's just a good idea.
You always need to understandwhat it is you own.
You need to understand ifyou're buying a tech company you
don't buy.
I mean, I know people willtrade the stocks.
I know what the companies do.
I've never been like that.
I want to know what does thecompany produce, what are their,
(36:53):
what are their financialrecords?
If I'm investing in a stockWell, for me, you know.
I think you should understandthe basics of Bitcoin.
You don't have to be an expertat it.
I mean, you own dollars.
You don't know how the Fedcreates those, or you don't know
how gold is mined, but yet youstill own my own gold, so you
have to be an expert.
You should, though, understandthe basics of Bitcoin.
Hold it for a little while, see, get used to the fluctuations,
(37:16):
because what always?
I always joke with my wife thatwhenever I decide to buy a
little Bitcoin, it's alwaysgoing to go down the next day,
and I always know okay, if youwant to get your Bitcoin, buy it
the day after I do becauseit'll go down.
But you learn, though, to ignorethe noise you don't really care
about, like okay, that's goingup and down on a daily basis.
You're looking more long-term.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
And as we wind down here, Eric, thank you for that.
You specifically are talkingabout Bitcoin here, but we have
other cryptocurrencies that arecoming out.
Will those othercryptocurrencies right?
Will they do anything to myvalue of my Bitcoin, do you
think?
And you specifically likeBitcoin for a reason?
Right, for many of the thingsyou've outlined them in the book
(37:58):
.
But what about all those othercryptocurrencies?
Speaker 2 (38:02):
It's a great question , jack, and, like I, and I've
evolved in my views on this.
If you'd asked me this five, 10years ago, I would have had a
different view than I do today.
I would say the vast majorityof other cryptocurrencies
altcoins is another name forthem when I'm saying vast
majority, I mean like 98, 99%are basically worthless.
There are a few that areinteresting.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
Technical projects Wait so you're saying 90% are
worthless.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
Yeah, worthless in the sense that over time,
they're going to go to zero.
I really do believe that thevast majority of
cryptocurrencies they're goingto all go to zero.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
So we've got to be careful here.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
You might be able to get lucky.
I did, for example, I owned anold coin in 2017 that went up a
lot and I got a little money outof it and it was great and I
sold it.
Now it's worth almost nothing,so it's not saying you can't
make money.
My point is is that you shouldlook at Bitcoin as savings, as a
form of money.
You should look atcryptocurrencies like you would
look at tech stocks, othercryptocurrencies Like OK, does
(39:00):
it have a good management team?
Does it have a good idea?
Things like that and if you dothink so, maybe you want to
invest in it.
But understand, it's not a formof money, it's not savings.
That's a true, actualinvestment.
And my personal opinion isunderstand the underlying
technology of blockchain, thingslike that.
Blockchain technology actuallyisn't very good for most tech
(39:21):
projects.
It got got all the rage in WallStreet and Silicon Valley, but
it really isn't that good of atechnology for most tech
projects.
It's very good for a form ofmoney, but if you're trying to
make like a world computer orsomething like that or a search
engine or whatever, it's notvery good for that.
And so I'm just not a believerin other cryptocurrencies.
I'm not saying none of themwill be successful.
(39:43):
I just simply don't think it'sworth my time to invest in them,
because you'll do a lot ofresearch and you might end up in
the end just it's going to beworthless.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
So I'm Bitcoin only now, if I'm starting, I'm
starting with Bitcoin.
I'm going to hold this book upbecause and I'll tell you why
even if you're not, even if youdon't ever think you're going to
buy Bitcoin I think this is afascinating read, eric, I think
you did a marvelous job here.
Just talking about the moneysituation itself, talk about the
(40:13):
immorality of it, all thesethings that you mentioned in the
book were going through my mindmany, many times about the
Canadian truckers and all thesekind of things, and you just
opened it up and it's veryreadable.
It's very readable, and thingsthat we didn't have time to get
into is the miners, how thatworks Fascinating stuff.
So thank you so much.
(40:33):
Where should we buy this?
I?
Speaker 2 (40:35):
think the easiest way is just go to my website.
It's ericsammonscom.
Go to ericsammonscom.
There's a link right on thefront page where you can click
on it and you can buy itdirectly from me and I'll even
sign the copy for you.
You can get a course at theregular places as well, but
ericsammonscom is probably theeasiest way to remember and just
you can buy it directly from me.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
Good, and we'll put that in the show notes.
And last thing, just CrisisMagazine.
What a wonderful publicationyou have there and so.
I recommend people to checkthat out.
So check out ericsammonscom andcrisis.
Is it crisismagazinecom?
Speaker 2 (41:10):
that's right.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
crisismagazinecom hey , god bless you, eric.
Thank you so much.
Thanks everyone.
Thanks for joining us today.
Talk to you again soon.
Bye, bye, bye.
Welcome to the Become who you Are podcast, a
production of the John Paul IIRenewal Center.
I'm Jack Riggert, your host.
Special welcome to young peoplewho have been joining us,
especially young men who arepart of Claymore.
You see the big Claymore swordbehind me.
Miletus Christi Soldiers forChrist.
What we all seem to have incommon is that we know
something's very wrong with theworld and as we draw closer to
(00:35):
Jesus Christ and his church andtry to do good things in the
world, we know from a purelypractical and prudent place.
We need to diversify, we needto figure out what's going on
and how to save and store money.
Should I buy some gold, somesilver?
And inevitably the questioncomes up what about Bitcoin?
Should I own it?
Here to discuss Bitcoin with ustoday is Eric Sammons, who wrote
(00:58):
a second book on Bitcoin MoralMoney the Case for Bitcoin.
Eric is the editor-in-chief ofCrisis Magazine.
He holds a degree in systemsanalysis with a concentration in
economics from Miami Universityin Ohio, as well as a master's
degree in theology fromFranciscan University of
(01:18):
Steubenville.
He's the author of severalother books, including Deadly
Indifference how the Church LostHer Mission and how we Can
Reclaim it.
Bitcoin Basics 101 Questionsand Answers, and the Old
Evangelization how to Spread theFaith Like Jesus Did.
Eric worked for more than 15years in the software
(01:40):
development field, including 10years with his own software firm
.
He also spent five years as thedirector of evangelization for
the Diocese of Venice in Florida.
Eric, welcome.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Thank you so much for having me, Jack.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
I really do appreciate it Well, you have a
business and an entrepreneurialmind, plus a love for Jesus
Christ and this church.
So I would imagine that you gotyour degree in systems analysis
first and then went on to get amaster's in theology.
But I could be wrong, that'sright.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
I was systems analysis and I worked as a
software developer for manyyears started a couple different
companies, actually, and then Iended up getting my master's
degree in theology and thentransitioned into doing more
work for the church.
I worked for a diocese for fiveyears as a director of
evangelization.
I've edited a number ofCatholic books and written some,
(02:31):
and, of course, now I'm theeditor of Crisis.
So yeah, basically I startedoff, though, as a software
developer for many years andthen I moved into more
church-related work.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Yeah, I have a very similar background to that and
there's something very practical, very good about, I think,
stepping into the church thatway, right, Were you a cradle
Catholic.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
No, I'm actually a convert.
I became Catholic in college.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Okay, without sucking up too much bandwidth here.
What was the impetus for that?
Without sucking up too muchbandwidth here what was the
impetus for that?
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Really it was.
I was the only Protestant in mypro-life college group.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Is that right?
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Yeah, I mean the only real active one.
We had a college pro-life group.
A lot of people would come andgo, but the core members were
about a dozen and it was allCatholics and me.
And so I really started to beconcerned I was a United
Methodist about the Methodistnews on abortion.
And that just put me down arabbit hole and because I
(03:34):
started thinking I need to joinanother denomination At the time
I was thinking something likePresbyterian or Southern Baptist
or non-denominational,something like that.
But the more I looked into it Ireally came to the question well
, what's to keep them from oneday changing their teachings on
abortion?
Because of course the Methodistsstarted off pro-life and then
they became pro-abortion.
Who's to say that SouthernBaptists won't change or the
(03:56):
Evangelicals won't change?
And I remember asking aCatholic friend like how do you
know the Catholic Church won'tchange its position on abortion
someday?
And it was funny because Istill remember we were standing
on the sidewalk at MiamiUniversity and he looked at me
like I was just crazy, like itwas the dumbest question he'd
ever heard.
He was very nice to me but hebasically was like you just
don't get it, it can't happen,it just can't happen, and he
(04:19):
explained it, of course, more indetail than that.
But that really set off myjourney to Catholicism, because
I started to realize that theCatholic Church was just
different, that it wasn't thesame as the Protestant
denominations.
I looked at it like just onemore denomination, which is a
little weirder, but just adenomination, and so ultimately
then, a few years later, Idecided to become Catholic.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Yeah, well, I'll tell you what you just hit on, I
think, when we're talking toyoung guys, eric and again,
claymore is this logo, thisClaymore sword is the logo for
this apostolate we have withinour apostolate for young men,
and that's what they're doing,that's what they're saying.
They said, you know, we wantsomething with roots, right,
that you know, when I'm, youknow, 10 years older, 20 years
(05:04):
older, everything hasn't changedand I just wasted 10 or 20
years of my life.
So this is powerful.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
This is powerful what you just said, yeah, Thanks for
sharing that.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Well, you wrote a wonderful book Moral Money on
Bitcoin, and when you describeit in the book, you describe
Bitcoin, how it works, and butyou went on to describe it as
moral money, the most moralmoney ever created.
And I don't know where you wantto start, because it's such a
wonderful book and you hit a lotof things, but but.
But what did you mean by moralmoney?
(05:35):
That's the, that's the title.
So we might as well we might aswell start there.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Well, it really started for me years ago.
Bitcoin came into existence in2009.
Even before that, I started torecognize the immorality of our
current money and that reallystarted to understand that the
way our current money and by ourcurrent money I mean the
government issued fiat currencyknown as the US dollar or
whatever country you might be in, in which government officials
(06:03):
can simply create more money outof thin air if they want more
money.
So if they want to do a pushthrough a new social program,
they want to fund an unpopularwar, whatever they want to do,
they can just create more money.
But, of course, knowing basiceconomics like I said, I studied
that some in college and on myown as well I realized if they
(06:25):
create more money, that devaluesthe money that all the rest of
us hold, and so that's reallylike taking money from us, and
we see this very clearly ininflation.
The fact that we're just usedto the fact that everything
costs more now than it did inthe past.
We're used to our grandparentssaying I remember when a gallon
of milk costs, you know, 20cents or whatever the case may
(06:45):
be, and we just take that asnormal.
But it's not normal, itshouldn't be normal, because
really that's theft.
You should be able, the averagecitizen should be able, to save
their money in a veryconservative way.
Just put heck even put it undertheir mattress if they want to
in a safe at home and it shouldbe worth the same amount, or
(07:06):
generally the same amount, inthe future.
But what we have is because ofour immoral monetary system.
Today you have to haveeverybody has to be buying
stocks, looking at what's thelatest tech stock.
What do I need to do to investto get the best return?
And we're all doing it justsimply to keep up with inflation
, to be a little bit ahead, sothat when we retire our money
(07:26):
will be worth something.
And so that really was thebeginning, was I realized well,
fiat money is immoral.
And that got me very interestedin gold and silver, because
those are very different,because government just can't
create new gold out of nothing.
You have to mine gold, you haveto spend money, you have to
spend energy to get more gold.
(07:47):
But of course, there's problemswith gold in today's world.
If I want to buy something fromAmazon, I can't ship them an
ounce of gold or whatever thecase may be to buy something If
I want to get something fromsomebody in California or what
have you.
It's just simply not possible.
Get something from somebody inCalifornia or what have you?
It's just simply not possible.
Even if I want to buy somethinglocally, am I going to really
(08:10):
lug around a whole bunch of goldpieces to the local grocery
store?
So it's not practical anymore.
And I kind of thought thisbefore Bitcoin even came into
being.
And then, when Bitcoin cameinto being, it was like a light
ball went off for me when Ifirst discovered in 2013.
I thought, wait a second.
This money has the propertiesof gold and even some better
(08:30):
properties, and but yet itdoesn't have the but yet also
has the ability to transactonline and person to person very
easily, very quickly, theperson very easily, very quickly
.
And so for me that was like alight bulb and over time I
started to realize it's reallymoral money, meaning you just
(08:52):
can't create new Bitcoin out ofthin air.
I can't just say, hey, I wantsome more Bitcoin, I'm just
going to create some more, andso that really makes it have
those moral properties of goldwith the effectiveness and
usefulness of our currentmonetary system.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Yeah, it's an amazing chapter.
It's your first chapter whereyou start to talk about the
eight reasons.
You know that make it moremoney, right?
I remember you know, one of thethings that you hit with so
clear is this industrial,military-industrial complex.
We have going right and we justprint more money to fund these
wars and then we have to pay itback.
(09:28):
So what do we do?
We raise inflation so that wepay it back with cheaper dollars
, which robs all of us again ofour futures, moving us, as you
make the point, into riskier andriskier assets all the time,
and my mom and dad, who arestill alive, almost 100 years
old, are still.
They have to own risky you know, quasi-risky assets, because if
(09:49):
they would have stopped 10years ago or 20 years ago, it
would have eroded.
And then you addressed alsothat this is really another
thing for young people, isn't it?
You say something like thefinancial nihilism we see among
young people today.
This is important.
This is an important point?
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Yeah, I think so, very much so, because I've had a
lot.
You know, I have my ownchildren are now at the age.
My older children are at theage where they're getting
married, they're startingfamilies of their own, and I
talk to them, I talk to theirfriends, I talk to other young
people I know, and I realizedthey really do have some hurdles
I did not have when I was inthe same spot 30 years ago, and
(10:29):
those hurdles are the fact thatthe money has gotten so devalued
, inflation has gotten so out ofcontrol over the years, like,
for example, when the 2008crisis hit.
The answer of the governmentwas just flood the economy with
more money, and so what happens,though, is like people like the
fact that their houses go up invalue over time.
So, for example, you bought ahouse in 1980 for $100,000.
(10:52):
It's going to be worth maybe amillion dollars today.
The problem is, though, now ayoung person has to go and buy
the house for a million dollars,and wages have not gone up the
same way that the price of thesegoods have gone up.
So you have a young person, doeseverything right, so they work
hard in school, they graduatewith a nice degree, which they
probably had to get a huge loanfor again because of the
(11:15):
financial system we're in.
And then they go get a good joband they're like I'm going to
work hard, I'm going to supportmy family, particularly thinking
of, maybe, the young Catholicmen who want to support their
family and let their, theirwives stay at home with the kids
, and they want to do that.
But, oh my goodness, in mostareas of the country with most
jobs, that's very, that's verydifficult.
(11:38):
That is, that is a realstruggle.
And so I really see, you see, acertain financial nihilism, I
call it, where they just kind ofgive up I can't do it.
I can't do the American dream.
It's not alive for me, and Ithink they're right in a lot of
ways, and so I want to look foralternatives for them.
I want to look for ways notrisky, like crazy stuff, like
(12:00):
okay, let's try to find somepenny stock, you put all your
money into that, or somethinglike that, but something that I
think is a long-term solid formof money.
And I know there are peoplelistening to this right now
saying wait a second.
You're saying don't get intorisky investments.
Yet you're also advocating forBitcoin.
Isn't Bitcoin the riskyinvestment and I think that's
one of the reasons for the booktoo is I'm trying to debunk that
(12:24):
myth, that stereotype, thatBitcoin is this super risky
investment.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Let's talk about that a little bit.
First of all, what is Bitcoin?
I mean, there are people sayingwhat is Bitcoin?
And then to go on to whatyou're just asking right now,
isn't that a risky way to storemoney and why should it hold up?
Why should it hold up and whyis it going to keep the value
Right?
A risky way to store moneyRight, and why and why should it
hold?
Speaker 2 (12:46):
up?
Why should it hold up and whyis it going to keep the value
Right?
And I think I like answeringthe question what is Bitcoin?
By first saying what it is not,and this is going to be a
provocative statement.
People are going to be likewhat are you talking about?
Bitcoin is not an investment.
Bitcoin is not an investment.
Bitcoin is savings.
It's a form of money.
That's fundamentally what itwas when it was created.
It wasn't created SatoshiNakamoto, the synonymous person
(13:10):
who created Bitcoin.
He didn't create it as like OK,this is a get rich quick scheme
, this is an investment that youcan build on.
We're going to build whatever.
No, it was created as a form ofmoney, just like gold is a form
of money.
Now, I know people invest ingold, but really I would call,
when you buy gold, savings,because what the difference is
between savings and investmentis savings is basically you're
(13:34):
just holding on to your moneyand you're not spending it.
Investment is when you takethat money and you want to
invest it in some business, someopportunity, maybe real estate,
something like that, whereyou're trying to grow your money
beyond just what you have.
The problem is, savings doesn'texist in our current system,
(14:02):
because if you just hold yourcash, for example your dollars,
even if it's in a savingsaccount at the bank, you
technically lose money Becausewith inflation, your money is
going to devalue over time anddevalues by five to six percent
each year.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
It's amazing, yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
And so.
So really, we don't even knowwhat savings is anymore.
But Bitcoin is savings.
It's a form of money and thereason it is that the number one
reason.
There's multiple reasons, butthe number one reason is because
it's scarce, meaning there's alimited amount of Bitcoin ever
available in the world and thatnumber cannot be artificially
(14:30):
increased by anybody.
And so there will be 21 millionBitcoin created and it's
created over time.
Most of it's already beencreated like over 19 million of
it's already been created.
The point is that that makes itscarce and that is what keeps
the value of a form of money.
Gold, for example, is scarce.
(14:51):
You can't just create gold outof nothing.
But, for example, they saythere's gold potentially in
asteroids.
If we found a way to verycheaply mine gold on asteroids
and bring it here Like I hear,there's like billions and
billions of tons that wouldactually devalue the price of
gold.
Gold would go down in valuebecause the market would be
flooded.
(15:11):
That simply can't happen withBitcoin.
There's a limit, there's afixed limit.
That is basically bymathematics I mean.
It's like fundamentalmathematics.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Which you describe really well.
You took a pretty complexsubject right and boiled it down
.
I mean, I would love to meetthe inventor of this.
Oh yeah, we all would.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
I mean, if you think about it, what governs forms of
money With things like gold andsilver?
It's really physics thatgoverns that money, the supply
of the money, I should say,because there's only so much you
can get out of the ground,things like that.
How much is there?
Fiat, like currency, likedollars?
That is governed by man, and by, typically, man.
(15:53):
We all know how fallen man is,and so when we want to create
more, you're going to.
Bitcoin is governed bymathematics.
It basically just is there's acertain, there's a, there's an
algorithm, there's a certainformula that says here's how
many Bitcoin is going to be, andit's just set and because of
that, bitcoin maintains itsvalue.
Now I know you'll hear the newsstories.
(16:13):
I went down 20 percent, 30percent.
It went up like this.
But you need to, you need tolook out of, zoom out a bit.
In the 16 years that Bitcoinhas been in existence, it's gone
up more than anything else, anyother asset in the world, by
like way, way more.
I mean literally.
When I wrote my first book,bitcoin Basics.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
What year did you write that?
Speaker 2 (16:35):
I meant to ask you 2015,.
I wrote that that was 10 yearsago.
I wrote that when I publishedthat book, bitcoin was worth
about $330.
Today maybe it was $500.
It's right around there, anyway$300 to $500.
Today, one Bitcoin is worthover $100,000.
So clearly it's gone up invalue.
And that's not because ofsomebody in the background, some
(16:59):
inside person in the back roomkind of inflating it whatever.
No, that's just because peoplehave realized there's value to
something with a fixed supplylike this.
Now, personally, I think overtime, over a long enough time
eventually, that the increaseswill not be as radical, but also
the decreases will not be asradical.
(17:20):
It will not fluctuate as much,not be as volatile Something
early on, inuate as much, not beas volatile Something early on
in its history.
People are trying to price itout like what is this really
worth?
You're going to have a lot ofvolatility, but over time, as
more people save money inBitcoin, as more people own it,
it will eventually become lessvolatile.
I do think it will go up a lotin price from what it is now,
but it's not going to be thecraziness we've seen over the
(17:43):
first.
Like I said, I've been involvedfor 12 years.
So I've seen it go like.
I've literally seen it go downby 80%, go up by 500%, you know
in short periods of time, butthat's already.
I think that's already slowingdown, it's becoming already more
stable, but I still think it'sgoing to go up.
But that's how.
That's why I don't think it's arisky investment.
I shouldn't say I don't thinkit's a risky investment.
(18:05):
I think it's solid savings forthe long-term.
Yeah, you could buy someBitcoin today, and next week it
could be worth less.
I don't deny that.
But over the long-term five, 10, 15 years it's going to be a
good savings vehicle for yourmoney.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
I could see that already.
The speculators were there inthe beginning, right, the
investors, as you called themearlier, and now the guys I know
that own Bitcoin.
They're buying, but they're notselling.
They're incrementally adding alittle bit more, but, yeah, they
have no desire to sell this.
They're using it for savings,just like you said.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Exactly, it's using it for savings because it's a
better form of money.
There's something on Grisham'sLaw in economics and that says
that the worst form of money isthe type that's always used as
spent first.
If you have two different formsof money, you're going to take
gold coins and the governmentwould kind of shave them down.
So they'd say, oh, this is anounce of gold, but it actually
(19:06):
wouldn't be, because they putother metals in it.
People would realize what thatwas.
They would keep the ounce thatwas truly a full ounce of gold
and they would spend the fakeounce out there in the world.
The same thing is starting tohappen here, where people who
own Bitcoin are like well, I'mgoing to spend my dollars first
and I'm going to hold on to myBitcoin because I know my
(19:29):
Bitcoin is going to hold value,whereas my dollars won't.
Now, obviously, there's timesthat you're going to spend your
Bitcoin if it's a large purchaseand you had to dip into your
savings.
We all have those situations.
But your day to day, you'realways going to think first,
spend my dollars first and thenonly if necessary, will I spend
my.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Bitcoin.
It makes perfect sense, as youmentioned, with these young
people.
They're spending their moneybecause they have this
nihilistic view that my money isgoing to be worth less anyways
later on, so I might as wellspend it now while it's worth
more.
I mean, how sad is that?
Right it's?
Speaker 2 (20:00):
not only sad, but I think it's evil because it's
designed that way.
Our money is designed to bespent and so it really does.
The consumerism, the crazyconsumerism we have in the world
today.
That's not by accident, that'sby design.
If you look at Keynesianeconomics and the whole.
I won't go into all the details, but the point is is that with
fiat money, they want you tospend money.
(20:21):
They want you to spend money.
They want you to spend andconsume because they think
that's how you drive an economy.
Now, hopefully, catholicsunderstand that there's more to
life than just consumerism andjust spending money.
But that's what's happening toyoung people.
They're just like well, if mydollar today is going to be
worth 50 cents in a couple ofyears, I might as well spend it
(20:41):
today on something for a dollarrather than it going down in
value, and then they have nosavings.
So I really feel like Bitcoinand I've seen this in real life.
It's a real outlet for youngpeople in particular.
I know I've listened to Bitcoinpodcasts.
I know people where they willsay I mean, I know people who
aren't Catholic but they'reChristian.
(21:02):
They they got pregnant becausethey felt like they gave their
child because of Bitcoin, theyfelt like, ok, they were
financially insecure.
Now I know, as Catholics, wehave a different understanding
of being open to life and allthat, but still the point is is
like the Bitcoin is pointingthem in the right direction of
instead of the fiat currency,which points them to just spend
now, don't think long term.
(21:23):
Instead of the fiat currency,which points them to just spend
now, don't think long term,bitcoin makes them think, ok,
long term, more deep things likebringing a new life into the
world.
So I've seen that happenno-transcript.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
You make the case really well in the book.
What is a dollar really?
It's not backed by anything and, to your point, we can just
print more, print less, and itreally destabilizes.
And the more you look into it,eric, unfortunately, the more
nefarious this whole situationgets.
But you called Bitcoin freedommoney.
(21:57):
What angle are you looking atthere?
Maybe we touched on some ofthat already.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
I think the story that brings out freedom, money
the best is recently, just a fewyears ago, if people remember
the Canadian trucker protest.
Yes, that the Canadian truckerswere protesting, the
restrictions from COVID andthings like that.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
I did some podcasts on that.
Yeah, yeah, I did too.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
How they took their yeah.
They took their trucks and theywent into the cities and all
that.
And what happened was is theCanadian government basically
shut down their bank accountsand even took their money from
their bank accounts, thedonations that had been given
because they asked for donations, people were giving, like on
GoFundMe or whatever.
That's right and the Canadiangovernment just took that.
(22:40):
Well, they also had a Bitcoinaddress available to donate to,
and I donated to that, knowingthey can't take that money.
That's going to be theirs andso that's freedom money that you
can use it when there's anoppressive government and you
know there's oppressivegovernments have been.
I know in America we don't thinkof that as much, and you know
there's oppressive governmentshave been.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
I know in America we don't think of that as much
Although maybe I'll tell youwhat we felt that even on this
show is a show.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
I'm sure you felt it with crisis.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
You know that pressure was coming down, eric.
Yeah, I think if Trump didn'tget in oh yeah, it would have
been the Bitcoin would have beenlooking really good right now.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
From that standpoint, you would have really felt it.
Yeah, you see, things likePayPal.
They were doing restrictions.
They've kind of backed off fromthat because of Trump, I think,
but they were doing things likewhere they weren't going to
allow you to use their servicesif they didn't approve of your
policy.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
We had to diversify from that.
Yeah, exactly, the fear of thatdidn't happen to us.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
What Bitcoin does.
It allows you to say the greatthing yes, you can hold Bitcoin
at a company exchange like ariver, or Coinbase, something
like that, and that's fine insome ways and that could be
taken from you.
But the great thing aboutBitcoin is there are ways you
can hold it personally andsecurely that nobody on Earth
(23:56):
can take from you unless yougive them access to it.
And so it really is when we'retalking about, particularly as
people of the Catholic faith, weknow we have a long history of
being persecuted.
We have a long history andwe're still being persecuted
throughout the world, and realpersecution too.
I mean, think about your Muslimcountries, places like that.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
And so having the ability— Pope Leo just wrote
about 200, you know that wereslain in.
Was it Nigeria?
Where was it?
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Yes, I think it was Nigeria.
I can't, but yeah, and so thefreedom.
Money means simply that you can.
You're free to, you don't haveto have that your persecutors
tell you how you spend yourmoney, and because really,
that's how you cancel people intoday's world.
That's the persecution thathappens in the Western world and
America mostly is you cut off aperson's ability to make money
(24:44):
and to spend money, because onceyou do that, you've got them
silenced, and so Bitcoin allowspeople to speak out and say hey,
you can not like what I say,but you can't shut me up because
of the fact that I have thisability to save money that you
can't touch.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
I remember the vision just came to me in China with
the social credit scores.
Oh yeah, and these people arejust living on the street and
you say, well, what happened?
And they took their money.
But you think, well, that's notgoing to happen here.
But what you just said, theydid it in Canada.
That's right, and those socialcredit scores were getting
really popular with BlackRockand et cetera, et cetera et
cetera right.
So what a great point.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
I also want to bring up a confusion some people have,
and that is something calledcentral bank digital currencies,
CBDCs.
Those are cryptocurrencies thatare built kind of with some of
the technology that Bitcoininvented, but they're controlled
100% by governments, and sothey're like the evil twin of
Bitcoin.
I call them In that, yes, theyhave the technology in some ways
(25:46):
not in important ways, but insome ways is similar, but it
allows for 100%, completegovernment control.
So when we say Bitcoin isfreedom money, you might be
thinking, oh, wait a minute, butcan't they control that,
Because you hear about CBDCs?
No, it's the exact opposite.
They can't control Bitcoin.
That's why they want people touse CBDCs, because those would
(26:07):
be completely controlled by thegovernment.
Fortunately, Trump has alreadycome out against those, but who
knows, the next president mightnot.
So Bitcoin allows again a wayto escape from that type of
system where you have completecontrol over your money given
over to the government.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
You called Bitcoin in here, eric, the money of the
future, and I'm still trying toget my head around.
What you said earlier and whatyou made explicit in the book is
that we're only going to beable to print 21 million of
these.
We've already.
Print is the wrong word,obviously.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Yeah, I know what you mean.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Issue Issue 19 million already.
So can you talk to that alittle bit?
I mean, you know we sit herethinking, okay, well, how are we
going to have enough of this,you know, to actually work on
something and make it a savingsand not just an investment?
Speaker 2 (27:03):
again, it's a common economic mistake that people
make that you have to have acertain amount of money in an
economy, but that's actually nottrue.
You can have any amount ofmoney in an economy.
What matters is how divisibleis it?
Because one of two things willhappen.
When you have more economicactivity, more people, let's say
you just have more people in aneconomy and you have, let's say
(27:27):
, a million dollars in aneconomy and you have 100 people
in it, and so you just divide itup evenly, everybody gets a
certain amount.
Then, all of a sudden, you addanother 100 people, and now the
average is half if that happens.
But what that means is, though,because there's twice as many
people buying and selling, thevalue of that million actually,
each one of those goes up.
(27:48):
The other option would be youprint twice as much, and so you
print, you have two millions ofone million dollars, and then it
stays about the same as far aseach individual dollar, stays
about the same as far as eachindividual dollar.
So what happens is, in aneconomy where you have a fixed
monetary supply and you see thisin history with gold and things
like that is the value of eachone goes up.
So, for example and that's whatwe've seen it started off at
(28:11):
zero 16 years ago and now it'sover $100,000 each.
But it's divisible up to eightdecimal points, meaning you can
own 0.00001 Bitcoin.
For example, you can buy, forexample, $5 worth of Bitcoin
Today.
You could go on exchange, youcould buy $5 worth of Bitcoin,
you could buy $500,.
You could buy $5 million, $5billion.
(28:32):
All those are possible becauseyou just simply buy different
amounts.
So, for example, something thatcosts one Bitcoin today, if
everybody starts using Bitcoin,in 10 years, that same thing
might cost maybe one, onemillionth of a Bitcoin because
the value of it has gone up.
So your purchasing powerdoesn't decrease as it would in
(28:54):
an inflationary environment.
It stays the same and evenearly on in Bitcoin it goes up.
You can actually purchase moreover time.
I mean, one thing I like to dois I price things now in Bitcoin
to see like larger purchases,is it worth it Like?
Here's a story I could tell In2000,.
I think it was 16 or 17.
I think it was 17.
My daughter, my graduate highschool.
(29:16):
She needed a car.
So I went to the local cardealership and I bought a beater
car for like $2,000.
And I sold two Bitcoin to buythat, because that's one Bitcoin
is worth about $1,000 a time.
So I bought a car that, by theway, it broke down in about a
month.
It was a total lemon.
I was not happy by it, but Ispent two Bitcoin on that that
today.
If I saved, it would be worthover $200,000 today.
(29:38):
And I spent a lot of Bitcoin inmy time.
I don't mind mentioning I'veowned a lot of Bitcoin, but I've
actually spent a lot becauseearly on I didn't quite
understand the long-term whatBitcoin was when I first got
started, and so I kind ofchuckled about that now.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
The good thing about you don't lose your train of
thought on that story.
I'm good at this.
I think I'm getting ADHD as Iget older, Eric, but I think the
beauty of you is coming throughthis and that your second book
is that you're starting to getreal confidence in this story
where I think, even early on,you say okay, well, I got a
(30:13):
couple thousand dollars inBitcoin, probably should spend
some, just in case it doesn't.
But now you know, don't you?
That has some.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
And so now I price it in Bitcoin, I say, ok, if that
thing's going to cost me pointto Bitcoin today, let's say or
actually it'd be point zero,zero two Bitcoin today is two
thousand dollars.
If it costs me that, do I thinkthat's worth it for that to
spend point zero, zero twoBitcoin?
Or do I think, you know, orshould I just hold on to it?
(30:42):
And that is actually one of mymain points, also in moral money
, is it's forcing me intolong-term prudent, temperant
behavior.
Instead of saying, okay, spendnow because the money is not
going to be worth anything soon,I'm actually.
It's actually fostering thevirtue of temperance in my
decision making and so now I'mlike it doesn't mean I won't
(31:02):
spend it.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
What a great point, especially for young people, for
all of us, but for young peopleespecially.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
I mean, if I really need the car, I'm going to buy
the car.
I mean I just have to get it.
But it does tell me, okay, do Ineed that big screen TV?
I have a 50 inch TV.
Do I need a 60 inch?
Is it worth that point?
You know, zero to Bitcoin.
When I look at like that, I'mlike, well, I don't think it
really is, because I know that'sgoing to be worth a lot more in
(31:27):
the future, whereas with mydollars, if I say, oh, I'm going
to spend a thousand dollars onthat or something, whatever big
screen TVs cost these days, Idon't even know If I'm going to
spend a thousand dollars on thattoday.
Well, that's going to be worthlike five hundred dollars in a
few years.
Well, that's going to be worthlike $500 in a few years.
So might as well buy it.
Now you see how the wholethinking changes, and I know a
(31:48):
lot of people who've been inBitcoin for a while and we all
testify to this that over time,I mean, my dad taught me how to
be prudent, how to be temperate,how to be frugal, all that.
So I thank him first andforemost because he was the one
who taught me that, but it'slike a check.
It really does make you thinkbefore you buy.
And we live in this consumerculture where we always are
(32:09):
satisfying our wants instead ofour needs.
And it's not that you can't buythings you want sometimes, but
it just makes you think do Ireally want to do I really need
to get that right now?
No, I don't think I do, and Ifound that for me, I just buy
less stuff once I started toprice it.
In fact, I even have an app onmy browser.
It just came out recently andit literally converts all
(32:32):
dollars on a screen prices toBitcoin, so it tells you what
the price is in Bitcoin.
So I'm actually kind of doingthat.
So I know what's this going tocost me in Bitcoin, because
that's really what I'm saving inand I'm less likely to spend on
just dumb stuff than I would ifI was pricing it in dollars.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
Yes, thank you, If I was going to buy.
I don't have any Bitcoin, say,and I don't have 100 grand, but
I wanted to buy a part of this.
Where do I even start?
Because I know you've got topay a little bit, too, in
trading costs.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
Absolutely, Absolutely.
And I think there's a number ofplaces Now I've been involved
long enough with Bitcoin to knowa lot of places.
I just need to be very clearabout this.
Companies that sell and buyBitcoin have gone under, have
stolen funds, have you know?
All these things have happenedin the past.
It's getting a lot better thanit was.
I mean, literally the monthafter I first got started in
Bitcoin, the largest exchange inthe world went under and
(33:26):
basically lost all the Bitcoinfor its users.
So I mean, that was years ago,that was 2014.
Now we're in 2025.
It doesn't happen as much.
So first, I'd say, go totrusted companies.
The one I like the best,honestly, is called Rivercom and
you can buy and sell Bitcointhere and when you're first
getting started so do I sign upthen, as like an account.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
Derek, is that what I do?
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Yes, it's like signing up kind of like with a
bank really.
I mean, you're signing up withthem.
You have to give them personalinformation, like you would with
a bank, because they have lawsthey have to follow.
They're an American company,they, they have to follow
American laws.
I don't like all those laws,but we live in a society where
we have to follow them, so Ifollow them.
But the thing is you sign upand then basically you connect
(34:08):
your bank account to it and yousay, okay, I want to buy $100
worth of Bitcoin and they willtake the $100 out of your bank
and they will give you $100worth of Bitcoin.
Now, like you said, there arefees involved.
Usually they're pretty minor,like maybe a buck or two or
something on a hundred dollarpurchase, and so you get that
and you can just hold yourBitcoin there Like you basically
have a login with them.
They have security.
(34:29):
I like their security the best.
That's one reason why I likeRiver the best and they just
hold it and that's fine.
When you're first gettingstarted, over time, if you feel
like the Bitcoin you own isgetting substantial, then I
recommend you find ways.
I'm not going to go into allthe details here, but you find
(34:50):
ways to hold it yourself andthere's secure methods called
hardware wallets that you canhold the Bitcoin.
It makes it a lot moredifficult, for you're not
beholden to a company goingbankrupt or being dishonest
essentially is what it does,because it's like holding cash
in your wallet at home orsomething like that, or holding
gold in a safe at home orsomething like that.
There's always security risks,no matter what, but it just
(35:11):
eliminates some of thosethird-party risks where you're
trusting a third party.
But if you're just holding alittle bit, you know it's just
something that you're like hey,I want to put a little bit in
here.
I have a few hundred dollars.
I mean, what a little bit isdifferent.
If somebody listening to thisis a multi-multi millionaire,
they might think $100,000 is alittle bit.
I mean, you and me we're notthinking that probably.
But yeah, whatever you think isnot super significant, it's
(35:32):
okay, I think, to hold it at athird party, but eventually, if
it starts to become a moresubstantial amount of your
savings portfolio, then I wouldsuggest learning how.
It's a learning curve, you haveto learn it of holding it, and
the great thing is is there's somany ways now than there used
to be.
(35:52):
When I first got started, youreally had to be a tech person
which I am to hold your ownBitcoin.
So I didn't mind, but I knew itwas just too hard.
When my sister wanted to getinvolved I was like, ah, it
might be too tough for her tofigure.
I don't want her to lose itbecause she makes a mistake on
her end.
Same with my kids.
I was like, okay, I got to makesure.
But now they've just got tools.
There's this tool called BitKey, which is like a hardware
(36:13):
wallet.
Know, those are some options,but we're kind of if you first
want to get started, just go toa place like rivercom, buy a
little Bitcoin, hold it there,get comfortable with it.
Get comfortable with it Exactly, understand it more before you
really go all in.
(36:33):
That's the other thing I alwayssay is like I don't give
financial advice.
I'm not telling people whatthey do or should not do with
their money, but I always dothink it's just a good idea.
You always need to understandwhat it is you own.
You need to understand ifyou're buying a tech company you
don't buy.
I mean, I know people willtrade the stocks.
I know what the companies do.
I've never been like that.
I want to know what does thecompany produce, what are their,
(36:53):
what are their financialrecords?
If I'm investing in a stockWell, for me, you know.
I think you should understandthe basics of Bitcoin.
You don't have to be an expertat it.
I mean, you own dollars.
You don't know how the Fedcreates those, or you don't know
how gold is mined, but yet youstill own my own gold, so you
have to be an expert.
You should, though, understandthe basics of Bitcoin.
Hold it for a little while, see, get used to the fluctuations,
(37:16):
because what always?
I always joke with my wife thatwhenever I decide to buy a
little Bitcoin, it's alwaysgoing to go down the next day,
and I always know okay, if youwant to get your Bitcoin, buy it
the day after I do becauseit'll go down.
But you learn, though, to ignorethe noise you don't really care
about, like okay, that's goingup and down on a daily basis.
You're looking more long-term.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
And as we wind down here, Eric, thank you for that.
You specifically are talkingabout Bitcoin here, but we have
other cryptocurrencies that arecoming out.
Will those othercryptocurrencies right?
Will they do anything to myvalue of my Bitcoin, do you
think?
And you specifically likeBitcoin for a reason?
Right, for many of the thingsyou've outlined them in the book
(37:58):
.
But what about all those othercryptocurrencies?
Speaker 2 (38:02):
It's a great question , jack, and, like I, and I've
evolved in my views on this.
If you'd asked me this five, 10years ago, I would have had a
different view than I do today.
I would say the vast majorityof other cryptocurrencies
altcoins is another name forthem when I'm saying vast
majority, I mean like 98, 99%are basically worthless.
There are a few that areinteresting.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
Technical projects Wait so you're saying 90% are
worthless.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
Yeah, worthless in the sense that over time,
they're going to go to zero.
I really do believe that thevast majority of
cryptocurrencies they're goingto all go to zero.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
So we've got to be careful here.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
You might be able to get lucky.
I did, for example, I owned anold coin in 2017 that went up a
lot and I got a little money outof it and it was great and I
sold it.
Now it's worth almost nothing,so it's not saying you can't
make money.
My point is is that you shouldlook at Bitcoin as savings, as a
form of money.
You should look atcryptocurrencies like you would
look at tech stocks, othercryptocurrencies Like OK, does
(39:00):
it have a good management team?
Does it have a good idea?
Things like that and if you dothink so, maybe you want to
invest in it.
But understand, it's not a formof money, it's not savings.
That's a true, actualinvestment.
And my personal opinion isunderstand the underlying
technology of blockchain, thingslike that.
Blockchain technology actuallyisn't very good for most tech
(39:21):
projects.
It got got all the rage in WallStreet and Silicon Valley, but
it really isn't that good of atechnology for most tech
projects.
It's very good for a form ofmoney, but if you're trying to
make like a world computer orsomething like that or a search
engine or whatever, it's notvery good for that.
And so I'm just not a believerin other cryptocurrencies.
I'm not saying none of themwill be successful.
(39:43):
I just simply don't think it'sworth my time to invest in them,
because you'll do a lot ofresearch and you might end up in
the end just it's going to beworthless.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
So I'm Bitcoin only now, if I'm starting, I'm
starting with Bitcoin.
I'm going to hold this book upbecause and I'll tell you why
even if you're not, even if youdon't ever think you're going to
buy Bitcoin I think this is afascinating read, eric, I think
you did a marvelous job here.
Just talking about the moneysituation itself, talk about the
(40:13):
immorality of it, all thesethings that you mentioned in the
book were going through my mindmany, many times about the
Canadian truckers and all thesekind of things, and you just
opened it up and it's veryreadable.
It's very readable, and thingsthat we didn't have time to get
into is the miners, how thatworks Fascinating stuff.
So thank you so much.
(40:33):
Where should we buy this?
I?
Speaker 2 (40:35):
think the easiest way is just go to my website.
It's ericsammonscom.
Go to ericsammonscom.
There's a link right on thefront page where you can click
on it and you can buy itdirectly from me and I'll even
sign the copy for you.
You can get a course at theregular places as well, but
ericsammonscom is probably theeasiest way to remember and just
you can buy it directly from me.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
Good, and we'll put that in the show notes.
And last thing, just CrisisMagazine.
What a wonderful publicationyou have there and so.
I recommend people to checkthat out.
So check out ericsammonscom andcrisis.
Is it crisismagazinecom?
Speaker 2 (41:10):
that's right.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
crisismagazinecom hey , god bless you, eric.
Thank you so much.
Thanks everyone.
Thanks for joining us today.
Talk to you again soon.
Bye, bye, bye.
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