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We explore Father Gabriele Amorth's book "God Most Powerful," which serves as a practical handbook for spiritual warfare. Rather than becoming obsessed with evil, Father Amorth encourages us to focus on strengthening our relationship with God through prayer, sacraments, and embracing truth. The best defense against darkness isn't fear but cultivating goodness and wonder in our daily lives.
The conversation takes a fascinating turn as we discuss how young people today are desperately seeking meaning in a culture that often reduces humans to mere biological accidents. As one psychiatrist observed, "Young men will crawl over broken glass to find meaning." This search becomes particularly challenging when our society distorts language and rejects fundamental realities about human nature. St. Edith Stein's profound wisdom offers guidance: "Speak the truth in love and love people in the truth. One without the other is a destructive lie."
Michael also reveals how developing relationships with saints provides spiritual allies in times of darkness. His simple prayer during the worst moments—"You're God, I'm not, please help"—offers immediate relief by acknowledging the divine relationship that sustains us.
Our guest Michael Lichens, author and editor with a passion for overlooked aspects of Christian history, walks us through this harrowing yet ultimately redemptive story.
Purchase Link: God Most Powerful, By Fr. Gabriele Amorth, An Exorcists Testament to God's Victory over Satan
Ready to discover how wonder might transform your own battles? Listen now, and consider downloading the Claymore Militus Christi Battle Plan and join us in reclaiming what it means to be a man. Share this episode with someone and discuss the questions together:
Discuss Ephesians 6:10-20. In it Saint Paul says, "For we are not contending against flesh and blood, but against the world rulers of this present darkness...
Discuss how this is seen in our culture today: Sister Lucia of Fatima wrote, "The last great battle between Our Lord and Satan will be fought over marriage and the family".
While listening to the podcast Consider and discuss: "Young people are searching for the truth and this is what Father Amorth brings out over and over and over again, the importance of staying in the truth and reality. Truth and reality. Where do you find the truth? What is real? How should I live my life right? What is my identity?"
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Basically, what happened is he realized that the
way to conquer his depressionwas with wonder and that little
insight to look at everything,to look at a blade of grass or a
piece of chalk and go there isso much good in this world.
He had a phrase that the worlddoesn't lack from a want of
wonders, but a lack of wonder myunderstanding.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
You know, from talking to these young people,
it's not always a pill thathelps and it's not always
therapy that helps.
You need God, you know so agood, I think, a good therapist
and I'm not a doctor, but I'vejust seen it in action A good
therapist will lead you.
In fact, carl Jung spoke aboutthis.
There are more.
It's a stay with reality, staywith what's true.
(00:40):
When I see these genderideologies and you tell young
children that a boy can become agirl, which is not reality,
which is not truth, which isscientifically impossible.
But we start grooming themearly and we do that with these
use of pronouns and we have tobe very careful with this.
Somebody asked me Jack, why areyou against using pronouns?
(01:03):
What's the big deal?
And I said it's a big dealbecause when you walk away from
reality, because when we speakthe words in truth, now, right,
when I speak about reality,truth, no, I'm not going to use
a pronoun.
No, a baby is not just a clumpof cells.
No, a man can't become a woman.
I have to speak those truthsand I have to do it in love,
(01:25):
right, st Edith Stein, whobecame St Teresa of Benedicta of
the Cross right before she wentto the gas chamber she said
Speak the truth in love and lovepeople in the truth.
One without the other is adestructive lie.
(01:52):
Welcome to the Become who youAre podcast, a production of the
John Paul II Renewal Center.
I'm Jack Riggert, your host.
Special shout-out again to theyoung people that are joining us
, especially the young people ofClaymore.
Miletus Christie.
That's the sword in the back.
I also have a statue here toprotect Mr Litchens today and
he's here with me to discussthis battle of good and evil.
(02:14):
You know, as all of you know,my heart goes out to these young
people that have been growingup in this toxic culture and
they're looking for somethingmore Well, as soon as they do,
michael and I'll bring you on ina second, but as soon as they
do, they're going to confrontthis battle between good and
evil.
John Paul would say you know,it's an exterior evil you see in
(02:34):
the world, but it starts inthat interior evil, that battle
between good and evil done andit's fought on the battlefield
of each human heart.
So I'm excited to have MichaelLitchens back with me.
Michael is an author, he's donea lot of things, he's got a
great background.
He just did a show with me lastweek and I'm glad to have him
back to discuss good and evil,michael welcome.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Thanks, Jack.
It's always a joy to join you.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
I'm going to give them a little bit of your
background.
You come from a favorite placeof mine which is around Denver,
colorado, in the Rocky Mountains.
I used to live there.
I've got family there now.
Michael is an author, editor,researcher with a passion for
the overlooked aspects ofChristian history.
He's a former editor ofCatholic Exchange as well as the
St Austin Review.
(03:20):
He's a frequent guest on radioand television shows on which he
shares strange and delightfulthings about faith and Review.
He's a frequent guest on radioand television shows on which he
shares strange and delightfulthings about faith and history.
With an MA from the Universityof Chicago Divinity School and a
BA in philosophy, michaelespecially loves reading
anything from St Augustine GKChesterton I'd probably say
Lewis in there.
You've got to be reading Lewistoo, michael, if you've done all
(03:42):
that right.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
From the time I was a child.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
And probably a little Aquinas that you've thrown in
there too.
Yes, but when he's not busywriting about bone churches,
which we talked about in thelast show, go listen to the last
show and local history can befound editing books for authors
or leading tours of oldbuildings in the American West
I'm going to take him up on that.
Old Buildings in the AmericanWest, I'm going to take him up
on that.
Or in Rome, following hiswriting and other adventures at
(04:07):
M-L-I-C-H-E-N-S.
So that's Michael and his lastname's Litchenscom, and I'll
have that in the show notes,where he describes himself as a
faith-filled beer critic.
I love that.
With a writing problem, Michael, so good to have you back.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
It's great to be here , Jack.
Thanks again.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
You know we're going to be discussing good and evil,
but we're going to do it througha book that you and I both read
.
The name of it is God MostPowerful, and this is very
interesting because it's anexorcist, a famous exorcist,
father Gabriel Amorth.
Father Gabriel Amorth, hewrites it and he says this in
the front of the book anexorcist's testament to God's
(04:47):
victory over the devil.
What did you think about thatbook, michael?
Speaker 1 (04:51):
I was surprised about the book.
I've read Father Amorth a lot.
I wrote a small chapter abouthim in my book and I've long
admired him.
So when the Sophia InstitutePress wanted a spokesperson, I
jumped up with joy and I read me, let me.
And then I read it and I wasblown away because it was not
what I was expecting.
But it's a wonderful, beautifulbook.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
So, yeah, I felt the same way and here's why I wanted
to have you on the show today,for these young people
especially and look at, thisisn't just for these young
people, this is for all thepeople that love them and each
one of us that are trying tosurvive marriages and keep our
families together and justtrying to make sense of all this
.
This is what he does, Michael,doesn't he?
In this book.
(05:32):
It's not like you just said.
It's not like his other books,where he pretty much talks about
his experiences as an exorcistin various ways right here,
don't you think it's kind of ahandbook on how we get through
this battle and understand thisbattle.
He talks about all kinds ofthings in here, answers all
kinds of questions.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Yeah, it's really almost a mini-catechism for
stealing yourself up forspiritual warfare.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Yes, it is.
He even quotes that famous andI should have opened it up that
famous line from St Paul inEphesians 6, right, we're not
fighting against the flesh,we're fighting against powers
and principalities, about thedarkness and the rulers of this
age.
St Paul writes about this 2,000years ago and it's more real, I
(06:19):
think, today.
I mean, you know, I don't knowabout St Paul, he went through
his stuff, right, but it can'tbe any more real today than what
we're all experiencing in thisbattle.
I mean, don't you feel ityourself?
Speaker 1 (06:30):
I certainly do.
I think there's long been a waragainst what is good, true and
beautiful, since Adam and Eve.
The devil has waged that war,but now he has many, many allies
.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Yeah, St Lucia, and I think this is the crux of the
battle.
I mean, we see it in a lot ofmanifestations, but St Lucia,
the famous and main visionary Iwould say main just because she
lasted so long she died in 2005,the same year John Paul did and
St Lucia is a good friend ofmine, we speak all the time.
Paul did, and St Lucia is agood friend of mine, we speak
(07:07):
all the time and she said youknow so, she had visions of our
Blessed Mother at Fatima andafter that.
And she said the last greatbattle between our Lord and
Satan is taking place in essence, and it's over marriage and the
family, and we see the mostbrutal attack against young
people and against children.
Do you see that?
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Oh yes, especially against young people.
My heart goes out to young men,especially because I know I
struggled, you know, with havingso many things, conflicted and
telling me what's good, what'sthe right path for me to go
forward.
And it's only and I was, youknow, I was the MySpace kid.
It's only gotten worse.
I can't even imagine I didn'thave YouTube growing up, so I
(07:47):
can't even imagine what youngmen are struggling with right
now.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Yeah, and they're searching and they're looking
for the truth and this is whatFather Amorth brings out over
and over and over again is truthand reality.
Truth and reality.
Where do you find the truth?
What is real?
How should I live my life right?
What is my identity?
All those things that John Paulspoke of and our saints spoke
of and Jesus Christ spoke of andScripture speaks of, and Father
(08:14):
Amorth just brings it upthrough his own lens and does it
in a slightly different anglesometimes, but you could tell
exactly where he's going withthis.
It's really beautiful.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
It is beautiful and what I love about this book more
than anything, rather than hewarns against being too afraid
of the devil but also iscautious.
The devil's real.
We have to accept it.
But we can't give him too muchcredit because he is not nearly
as powerful as the Lord.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Yeah, but he's powerful to us.
If we let him in, you know, ifwe let him in and that's what's
happening in our culture, ofcourse is we're rejecting our
protection, which is our Lord,as you just stated, and we're
allowing this.
You know, I was talking to anexorcist myself, a friend of
mine, a priest, of course, andhe said you know these portals,
jack, that families are openingup fathers in their own homes by
(09:04):
looking at pornography anddoing different things.
You open a portal to evil inyour own house and you bring
that evil upon all of us.
When we're speaking to youngpeople, sometimes we said well,
didn't somebody watch over whatyou're looking at?
How did you get intopornography, how did you get
into these problems?
And they said you know, my dadwatches porn, and I didn't think
(09:25):
it was a big deal.
And, oh man, you just go.
You know there's so manyfatherless kids, first of all
and Father Amorth speaks of thatin here and how fathers are
supposed to be the educators oftheir children.
They are supposed to be passingdown the faith.
Not only are we meeting toomany young people that don't
even know their fathers, theygrew up out of wedlock or have
(09:50):
fathers that don't share thefaith with them, live in the
same house, perhaps love them,but aren't sharing the faith,
and when you don't, you justleave these young people
vulnerable.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
It's almost a form of neglect, to my mind, because
you're leaving.
It's like bringing up a childand never explaining money to
them.
What are you preparing them for?
The world is going to chew themup and spit them out.
Well, what are we doing when wedon't talk about good and evil,
when we don't talk about thetrue, the good and the beautiful
and tell them where to find it?
We're basically putting kidsout, unequipped to deal with the
(10:23):
world as it is.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
It is and we're not giving them.
There's no hope, then, becausewhen they get captured into
these things.
They become anxious, depressed.
Too many of them are sufferingfrom various mental illnesses.
At least, when you share thefaith, they'll turn around at
some point right and they'll saythere's got to be something
more.
But they don't have anything.
It's like you know, it's likestarting to fall down a sand
(10:46):
dune, with that sand slidingdown and there's no base,
there's no foundation.
At least if you have afoundation, you're going to stop
at some point and God can catchyou and you know you bounce
back up again.
It was very interesting.
Angelo Simone alluded to thisin the foreword to the book and
he's speaking to all of us, inthese young people, and he says
(11:09):
this you are drawn to and I'mgoing to paraphrase a little bit
but you're drawn to pause andreflect on your own life and
then further drawn to place yourlife in harmony with the
purpose for which God createdyou.
And so when Father Amorthspeaks of evil and Satan, he
didn't want us to lose our focuson, and to continue to glimpse
(11:29):
the goodness of God, thekindness of God which, as you
alluded to, already holds thedevil in check.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Absolutely, and that's one of my favorite things
about this book is it's sopractical in that the best
defense against the devil is toshore up on the good, to
remember who your Lord is, to goto confession, go to Mass and
to pray daily.
With that, we have no fear ofhim whatsoever.
We don't even have to pay himany mind outside of
(11:59):
acknowledging that he isfighting us and we are waging a
war.
We don't have to be obsessedand worried about him because we
already have all the protectionwe need.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
You know, that reminds me of this exorcist,
this friend of mine that I justmentioned.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
That's what he said.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
He said Jack, if you just live a traditional right, a
basic Catholic life, like yousaid, prayer, we have the holy
water, we have sacraments, wehave the rosary, we have great
literature, we have great saintsand philosophers that have come
down through history, the GKChestertons of the world, st
Augustines of the world.
(12:35):
You know, everything is therebut we're not doing it.
You know, and too many youngpeople don't read anymore and
we're really trying to get themwith these books and books like
we're talking about today that Ithink they'll all find
interesting because I thinkthey'll experience this in their
own heart.
But when they sit, michael andyou're a writer, when you sit in
(12:57):
great literature, it changesyour mind.
We talked about this on ourlast show.
It changes your mind.
We talked about this on our lastshow how Alessandro, who
murdered little Saint MariaGoretti, and he said later on
how reading dark literature andthings that brought poison into
his mind really brought him intothis evil story.
(13:19):
And it wasn't until MariaGoretti appeared to him.
Remember, michael, oh, yes.
And then he started to readgreat literature and he became a
great reader of greatDostoevsky and Tolstoy and many
others, and they changed hiswhole heart and they changed his
whole mind.
We don't realize that, do we,michael?
(13:40):
When we bring porn and thesegraphic images into our hearts,
we change, we change, we changewe change.
We change.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
We oftentimes not for the better.
It warps our sense of reality,our sense of other human beings.
But the good news is that theopposite can happen.
When you read good books, whenyou read great, you know the
saints or the Bible, yousuddenly find that your mind has
changed.
You're softening a little bitbecause you've learned about
forgiveness, you're kinder topeople because you learned
(14:08):
that's the better way to goabout.
And I mean I know goodliterature has saved my life and
I know that's true for many,many people out there.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Unpack that a little bit when you say that Sure.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
I would say, like I've written about it before,
but I suffer from a very severeform of depression, and when I
say severe, it's been alife-altering having to deal
with it.
And GK Chesterton was thatfirst author who really, because
he himself suffered from verydebilitating depression.
I didn't realize that.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
As much as I've read GK Chesterton, I never realized
that no one would, because heBasically what happened is.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
He realized that the way to conquer his depression
was with wonder and that littleinsight to look at everything,
to look at a blade of grass or apiece of chalk and go there is
so much good in this world.
He had a phrase that the worlddoesn't lack from a want of
wonders, but a lack of wonder.
And that's exactly what.
What it completely changed mymind.
(15:06):
Suddenly I look at trees andI'm thinking thank you, lord,
for this wonderful bit ofgreenery I get to see every day.
It gives me oxygen, it gives meshade and I get to look at it
and just admire it for being inexistence.
And that profoundly changed mylife as a young man.
It took me from going okay,this is never going to happen.
(15:27):
Maybe suicide's the only answer, maybe that's the only logical
conclusion to this.
And Jehoshaphat said no,there's a much more logical
conclusion and that's to go outand realize the wonder of God's
creation.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
And now, look, I don't want to get too personal
with you, but did you start tocome out of it then?
And then you know what do youhave to do today?
Because there's peoplelistening to this show that also
are anxious and they also getdepressed and they also have
felt the suicide.
And we talk to these youngpeople all the time.
You can go into a very darkplace, you know, sometimes you
(16:01):
have to see a doctor orpsychologist, et cetera, but
most of the time myunderstanding you know from
talking to these young peopleit's not always a pill that
helps and it's not alwaystherapy that helps.
You need God, you know.
So, a good, I think, a goodtherapist and I'm not a doctor,
but I've just seen it in actionA good therapist will lead you,
(16:21):
in fact, carl Young spoke aboutthis.
He said this I'm going to justparaphrase again and you've
probably heard this, but it wasin A man in Search of His Soul
Great book.
I have it on my shelf and hesaid in the last 35 years.
No, he says as of the age of 35, he's getting old now and he's
(16:44):
looking back at his life andhe's saying, okay, whoever came
to me Now, he's a famouspsychologist, right, he's known
all over the world.
He lives in Switzerland, butrich clients are coming in,
everybody's coming in to see him, and he's looking back how did
I help people and why did theycome to me?
And he analyzes it and he goes,you know, in the from the age
(17:08):
of 35 years old and up.
He's talking about his clients.
He said I, I realized nobodyever came to me that hadn't lost
what mankind has had from thevery beginning, which is a
religious outlook on life.
And he said this, which is justprofound.
He said and I realized no onewas truly healed that did not
regain what they had lost, thatreligious outlook on life.
(17:28):
This is Carl Jung, you know,who was a secularist in the
beginning.
You know he came to believe inGod, maybe not the Christian God
, but he knew there was a higherpower.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
He certainly did, and I think he hit the nail on the
head in that analysis because,while I've been helped
wonderfully by some greattherapists and doctors and I
still need to see them onoccasion what really helped me,
especially this last year when Ijust had one of the hands down
the worst year of my life,really oh yes, oh yes.
(17:59):
And what really helped me,strangely enough, was when I
started compiling stories for mybook and reading all these
wonderful stories from thesaints and you know, visiting
ghosts and talking to heavenlyspirits and meeting angels, and
all these wonderful stories thatchallenged me to look at the
world anew, new and I think,what we don't get in a lot of
(18:23):
materialist secularism, we, ifthis is all there is, what on
earth are we doing?
You know, why am I getting outof bed if this is all there is?
All there is is money.
You know, billy joel askedfamously is that all you get
with your money?
A canoe car and a nice house athackasack, like?
yeah that's all.
But, suddenly the world is somuch more and there's so much
(18:46):
more to live for, and suddenlydeath isn't nearly the scary
thing, because there is hopethere too.
And I think that just takingthe world and almost like
Copernicus did with his newsolar system, change everything.
Change how you orbit the worldNow.
Suddenly it's a different placeagain, and when your heart is
(19:08):
filled with that wonder and thatgratitude I can speak from
personal experience it changeseverything.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
Yeah that's beautiful to see, if you had to.
You know, besides GK, look, I'mon a roll here just because I
deal with this and I love togive people someone to listen to
, to talk to when you feel let'ssay you feel a depression
coming on.
I have a brother that sufferedfrom depression for a long, long
(19:35):
time and when you feel thatcoming on, are there any go-to
things that you do now?
I mean, I've never haddepression, so I'm here as
someone just asking for others.
Maybe Is there with thesetelltale signs?
I suppose can you feelsomething coming on.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
Oh yes, there are telltale signs.
The telltale sign I look for iswhen I start seeing
meaninglessness in everything,when I think there's no meaning
to anything we do.
I think especially young menright now.
I had a friend of mine who is apsychiatrist who said that she
swears young men will crawl overa broken glass to find meaning.
And that has been true for meand true for a lot of men I know
(20:16):
.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Wow, wow, wow.
Say that again, because I'mlooking at that sword behind me
again.
This is what that battle'sabout.
So can you say that again,because I don't want them to
lose what you said.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Sure no.
I had a friend who's apsychiatrist who told me she
really believed that young menwould crawl over broken glass to
find meaning, because they justcan't find it in this world.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Wow, now she knew that from the experience of her
own practice Exactly, and she'snot even a Catholic, this friend
of mine.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
She's not a Catholic we haven't had a good
conversation about God in awhile but I don't think she's
even Christian.
But she saw this just in herpatience that they needed that
search for meaning.
We're both fans of ViktorFrankl and his book Man's.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Search for Meaning.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
Yes, yes, yes, there's another great book, oh
yeah, if anyone's listening tothis, we're recommending a lot
of great books.
That one, please put it in yourbooks to read in 2025.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
I agree, I agree.
What a story.
You know what?
I'd love to get her back onwith you sometime, if she's
willing just to talk to theseyoung people that we're talking
to Michael.
So reach out to her, we'd loveto do that.
You know, father of more bringsus back to the beginning and
it's very, very important.
You know.
He talks about Genesis 3, wherethis evil comes in.
(21:30):
But, but, but I think it'sbeautiful.
You, you mentioned creation, thebeauty of it.
Yesterday I was, I was sittingoutside, it was nice out, I went
out on my bicycle, I did a niceworkout and I was sitting
outside, the sun was out and andthen, very quickly, a storm
came up.
Instead of going inside, I satthere Now, it wasn't raining yet
, but lightning and the darkclouds came and the winds
(21:53):
started to blow and I just was.
It was spectacular in its powerand, to your point, right, you
just start to, instead ofrunning in, I just start to look
at the trees and I heard thebirds, you know, getting quieter
, you know, and they had beensinging so loud.
And then the power of the storm, and then the rain started and
(22:14):
I still sat out there and it wasjust amazing, you know, and I,
and I thought the wonder of god,huh, and yet, yet, of all of
that, we are created, we're thecrown of creation.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Yes, we are.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
So when you really want to see this and you really
want to get out, you see otherhuman beings right, and we
receive that power, that grace,that beauty of God and we see it
through creation.
We internalize that, but thenwe have to go out and we have to
become that and that's whatwe're trying to do.
The name of the podcast is theBecome who you Are podcast,
(22:50):
because we want to share this,michael, because when we don't
share our experiences withpeople and Father Amorth again,
this is coming right from hisbook we have to share our
experiences and if we don't,then they're lost.
So he takes us back all the way, just like John Paul loved to
do in Genesis.
I'm going to read you just acouple of verses from Genesis,
chapter one.
(23:10):
You know, this is the firstthing God tells us in the Bible,
so it must be important, right?
Let us make man in our image,after our likeness.
So it's our O-U-R.
Right?
I'm not up here by myself, I'ma community.
And then let him have dominionover the fish, the sea, the
birds, all of this creation, hesays.
And then he says he like, drawsback into himself, you know.
(23:32):
And he says God created man inhis image, in the divine image.
He created them, male andfemale.
He created them.
God blessed them, saying befertile, multiply, fill the
earth and subdue it.
It's yours, these are all giftsI'm giving you this creation,
but you're the crown of creation, you're in my image and it's
because we have reason, we haveintellect, we have free will.
And here, michael, with no sin,we're in union and communion
(23:56):
with God, right?
I mean, this is what God wantedfor us not to be walking alone
in our anxiety and our fears,even in our depressions, right,
but to walk with him.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Absolutely and what I love also about.
As Thomas Aquinas pointed outwith Genesis, god did it
completely of his own volition.
He had no need for us.
He doesn't need us.
He's not lonely or anythinglike that.
The Trinity is able to conceiveitself in love, but he did it
because he wanted to.
So you and I are both creationsof God, not for any need of
(24:31):
God's part, but because hewanted to create you.
He wanted you and I to be heretoday and have this conversation
, and he wanted all thelisteners to be with us.
And that's suddenly that littletruth that I have to remind
myself constantly is alife-saving truth, because
suddenly no man is useless orrepetitive.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
They're an unrepeatable miracle in God's
creation we're going to ask youto join us by helping us get the
word out.
So, if you can make sure yousubscribe and then hit like, no
matter which platform you're on,remember, remember that the
Become who you Are podcast is onaudio and any music or podcast
app we're up on Rumble YouTube.
(25:10):
You can find us on X.
When you do subscribe, hit thelike button.
A couple things to share withpeople Love Ed.
Love Ed is just such animportant apostolate, so it's
within our apostolate, the JohnPaul II Renewal Center.
This helps parents give thetalk to their children.
(25:31):
We're trying to push back onall these gender ideologies and
the porn culture and givechildren the truth and do it
through their parents, and wehelp them do that.
The other one is really takenoff too.
It's Claymore Miletus Christi,soldiers for Christ.
That's where you see the swordbehind me.
(25:51):
That's the big sword.
That's our logo for Claymore,that's a Claymore sword.
And this is for young people,especially young men, gen Z,
high school, all the way through, let's call it, until they're
30 years old or so.
They're starting to reallyunderstand that something
nefarious, very toxic, is goingon in the culture, and so
they're stepping into the churchand we're discipling them.
(26:13):
So we want to help get the wordout about those things and,
lastly, try to consider at leastconsider financially supporting
us.
Everything's in the show notes.
Hey, god bless you.
Thanks again.
We'll be right back to today'sshow.
You know, what did Jesus ask us?
And this Father, this Creator,this God, the Father, what did
(26:34):
Jesus ask us to call him?
What did Jesus himself call him?
Do you remember the term?
Speaker 1 (26:40):
I remember he called us friends, but he called them
Abba.
Abba, that's right.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
And that translates into Papa, Not only like Father,
my Father, but, yes, my Father,but Abba, Papa.
And this is the relationshipJesus says that God wants with
us, like a Papa, like a Father.
So not only did he create us,but he created us in this
beautiful love story.
When we walk away from him,like we did in Genesis 3, we
(27:09):
said no, we'll be like godsright, We'll call good evil and
evil good.
And this is exactly what we'reseeing today.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
Yes, we.
As Father Amorth points out,even going back to creation.
The devil's best trick is totempt us to believe that we know
better than God or to see Godas an unjust huskmaster.
We have to rebel against andagain still knowing better than
him, and that's the furthestthing from the truth.
It was untrue with Adam and Eveand it's untrue now.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
And you know, I listened to a little snippet of
the diary of Sister Faustinaevery morning.
It's part of this Claymorebattle plan.
We're on our knees, we open upour heart, and then I listen to
a little snippet on my app andit's 30 seconds usually, but if
you listen to it every day, youjust hear Jesus speaking to
Sister Faustina and this is forall of us with the divine mercy
(28:01):
image.
Right, jesus, I trust in youbehind me.
And the water and the bloodpours out, huh, the water of
forgiveness and redemption, andthen the blood itself, which is
his body and blood that he justwants us to consume so that we
become united again, as it waskind of in the beginning.
Right, we'll never get ourinnocence totally back, but St
(28:22):
Paul says says this is evenbetter, and I'm going to bring
this up because Father O'Marthdoes.
He says God permits evil.
He has to permit it.
Right, the devil just can't doanything with us, but he only
permits it.
St Paul would say up to ourstrength.
Right, it can never reallyoverpower us.
If we understood that, and thesaints and the mystics
(28:44):
understood this very well.
And so at the end of the day,you know he's calling us back
into this love story, isn't he?
Speaker 1 (28:52):
He absolutely is, and I think that's a very beautiful
image.
He's calling us back to it,which is the literal meaning of
conversion.
Returning to you know, goingback to where you needed to
start again and that's probablyone of my favorite Christian
messages is no matter whatyou've done, start again and
that's totally fine.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
It is totally fine and he permits this.
So we actually experience evil.
In other words, when I rejectGod or I'm just tempted to the
point where maybe I didn'treject God but I still fall,
we're going to fall.
St John the evangelist says ifyou don't call yourself a sinner
(29:32):
, you're a liar.
He said because we are.
But he said God permits it forour own experience.
He's going to be there for us.
He's watching, just like a dadhere on earth, like my dad, or
with my kids or my grandkids.
You allow them to take somesteps away from you, right?
(29:52):
They're going to have toexperience life, and when they
experience life, they're goingto experience evil.
When I accidentally open upagain this porn app or whatever
when I'm young, and then thisevil comes in, there's all kinds
of things like this right and Iexperience this evil Sometimes.
As Father Amorth would say, godallows us to experience this
(30:12):
evil so that we understand it,we understand the force behind
it, and so when we turn back tohim, we don't take for granted
that grace and that love and wecan distinguish it.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
This is very powerful , I think, yes, it's a powerful,
and you see it in people'slives.
So many lives I've seen whereit has changed so much for the
better because they suddenlyhave that meaning in their lives
and there's someone they knowwho loves them and is working
for their good and you have toknow you're loved.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
Yes, you know that.
You have to know you're loved.
And yes, you have to knowyou're loved and you have to
open yourself up to God.
When you do, when you ask, youknow I love.
Matthew 7, verse 7, and Jesusturns to his disciples and he's
teaching all of us.
He said ask, seek and knock.
And then he talks about look,if you go to the Father or your
(31:03):
Father on earth and you ask fora fish, you know, I don't
remember the exact analogy, butis he going to give you a rock
or something you can't eat orwhatever?
No, he's going to give you afish if he can right.
Yes.
And he says if you ask, seek andknock, he says what do you
think we're going to ignore youor not give you what you want?
You know, and, of course, forthose who have tried this, god's
(31:28):
not a vending machine.
You don't put a dollar and getthe candy bar out because he
wants you to battle with him,right?
You know, we don't just get thefree right and we wouldn't want
it as men, just like youalluded to earlier, we would run
over broken glass.
I think you said right To findthe truth, and so we have to put
some effort in and we don'tcare.
That's why we have the sword.
We're there to battle for ourown hearts and for those of our
(31:49):
loved ones, but we're doing itwith God.
That changes everything.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
No, I think you're right on that one having a
partner in that, not just in God, but in the whole communion of
saints, that there is alwayssomeone praying for you and a
God intervening for you.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
And I think that's what you said earlier right,
that you start to meet thesesaints and mystics and these
different people.
Can you build a relationshipwith those saints and mystics
and angels you mentioned?
Speaker 1 (32:16):
Oh, I believe so.
In fact, I'm of the belief thatsometimes we choose our patron
saints, but just as often apatron saint chooses us Like.
I don't think St Joseph and Iare like this because of just
accidents of history.
I think he and I are attractedto one another for a very good
reason and I've seen his prayerand his power, so I'm a huge fan
(32:37):
of St Joseph.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
In case anyone wonders, yeah, now what draws
you, you to him and vice versa,do you think?
Speaker 1 (32:44):
I think what attracts me to him is that he does
his—throughout the Gospels.
You know, he doesn't actuallysay anything in the Gospel, we
don't have any great lines orgreat quotes from him.
But we know his characterbecause when the archangel
Gabriel comes to him and tellshim what's going on with Mary,
he immediately acts, and he doesthat multiple times.
He doesn't, you know, say, well, what's in it for me?
(33:05):
Well, you know, why would I dothat?
He just he hears his duty andhe acts on it and he fulfills
his duty to the best he can.
And that's something I find.
I think that's like just anideal form of masculinity in
general, like when you know whatyour duty is, you just do it.
You don't need to wait forthanks or a parade, you're just
going to do it because you knowit's going to be better for the
(33:27):
world if you do.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
And I could see St Joseph and I think this is a
model for fathers, that it's inour activities with our sons.
You know, you can see St Joseph, you know, teaching him how to
be a carpenter, say, and youknow something would happen.
And he say, and you knowsomething would happen.
And he'd say, see, and he'dgive him a life lesson, I'm sure
.
And the same thing, you knowwhen we're catching fish, right,
(33:49):
and say, my son or my daughtercatches a fish, and you say, hey
, glory to God, huh, thank youGod for that fish.
Just simple things.
And you're teaching, teachingteachings, or you're teaching
patience.
Hey, let's have some patience.
You know, not everything comesto you at once.
This is what a father does.
You know, we think, well, howdo I get this down to my kids?
Hey, spend time with your kids,you know, have a faith, so you
(34:10):
have something to share, but youdon't have to push it.
You pray on that.
And the same thing with yourfriends, your neighbors, you
know, whoever.
Sometimes I know in my own life, when I want to share something
with someone that I think theyneed to hear and I don't know
how to say it, the best thingfor me is not to say it Not
right then, but I pray on it andthe Holy Spirit will give me
(34:33):
the words at the right time andthe right place.
He does it over and over andover again.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
Amen to that.
That's exactly among the thingsI love about St Joseph is.
there's a great story out herein new mexico where saint joseph
built a miraculous staircasefor a group of nuns who needed a
staircase up to their chapel sothey sit, pray a novena, a
carpenter shows up with histools, builds them the staircase
, leaves without any payment,without gratitude or anything,
(35:02):
and the nuns could never figureout who it was.
No one knew this mysterious man.
Even the lumberyard said hedidn't get the lumber from us,
so we don't know.
And that, to me, is such agreat model of Joseph.
He didn't need to have a paradefor him.
Like I said, he just knew hehad a duty and he loved the
people who were praying to himand he said okay, I'll help you
(35:24):
out.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
Yeah, do you remember how long ago that was, that
story?
That was in 1870.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
Sometime in the 1870s in Santa Fe it's still there,
isn't it?
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Yes, it is.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
It's no longer a chapel, but the staircase is
very much there, and architectsand engineers have studied it.
It's an incredible piece ofwork.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
Now, what is it in right now?
I mean, can people visit it andsee it?
Speaker 1 (35:47):
Yes, it's in what's called the Loretto Chapel, which
used to belong to the Lorettosisters.
It's now a museum and a weddingvenue.
The staircase everyone justGoogle St Joseph's Staircase, it
will come up.
It's a spiral staircase with nosupport beams or a center
railing to support it, so it'sself-supporting, which takes a
(36:09):
high quality of craftsmanship,and well we know Joseph was a
carpenter, so it makes sensethat he would just have this
knowledge to build such awonderful staircase.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
That's what I remember reading that it was
very unusual, very difficult,the way this was built, right
the way St Joseph built it.
Do you know what city that's?
In Santa Fe?
Okay, santa Fe.
My son covers parts of NewMexico on business and I'm going
to have to tell him about that.
I'll see him next week inColorado.
(36:40):
By the time this show airs Iwill have been there and I hope
to relate that to him.
You know, one of the otherthings that we have to be
careful of today is this abuseof language, the changing of
language.
Again, father Amort says staywith reality, stay with what's
true.
When I see these genderideologies and we call it, you
(37:04):
know, you tell young childrenthat a boy can become a girl,
which is not reality, which isnot truth, which is
scientifically impossible.
But we start grooming themearly and we do that with these
use of pronouns and we have tobe very careful with this.
Somebody asked me, jack, whyare you against using pronouns?
What's the big deal?
And I said it's a big dealbecause when you walk away from
(37:26):
reality, when you walk away fromtruth, you can get and you can
lead these people, these youngpeople.
See, truth is a power.
You know, Plato talked aboutthat.
He talked about our sensualpower, eros.
He would call it.
Eros is the Greek goddess oflove, so it was a sensual
movement of the heart.
But he said, with that sensualmovement it doesn't just stop
(37:47):
there, it's seeking thatmovement of the heart and also
for what's true, good andbeautiful, especially the beauty
of love.
What is that right?
And so when you distort andtwist truth and reality, just
like I read about, god createdus in his image, male and female
.
He created them when youdistort these things, as even
some people in the church, wegot the Father James Martins of
(38:09):
the world, et cetera, et cetera,distorting this truth and I
hope Pope Leo does somethingwith them.
Francis loved them, forwhatever reason, and you think
well, and of course we'resupposed to love him.
I have to love Father Martin,of course, but we have to point
out that we have to point outthese lies, because when you
abuse language, when you don'tspeak the truth, people really
(38:29):
get hurt.
And so when a young person sayscall me, they call me them
plural for a single person, youknow again, satan can move into
these areas and they're moredangerous than you think.
Any comments on that?
Speaker 1 (38:44):
Sure Well, Father Amorth does talk about that
quite a bit in this book that weneed to always remember the
truth and to cling to it.
I think the lies start evenyounger now.
When we tell people thatthey're nothing but a clump of
cells in the product, I'm notnecessarily trying to say that
we're not made up of cells.
We are, obviously, but we're somuch more than that.
(39:06):
We're not just, you know, askin suit full of organs.
We're much, much more than that.
And when we reduce our humanitydown to basically just another
animal in the animal kingdom,well, no wonder people are
frustrated and depressed andhaving trouble with things
because they don't realize theirown value.
Like you said earlier, you haveto love yourself and you have
(39:26):
to love your real self.
You have to be able to seeyourself as God sees you, which
is a wonderful part of hiscreation.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
Yeah, and we are fallen you know and God knows
that God knows that and so he,you know.
That's why you know, when youlook at a bit of crucifix,
that's love being poured out.
But again, the second word forlove John Paul pointed out so
often is mercy.
And of course he is because theFather knows we didn't come
into this neutral world, we cameinto a world at war.
(39:56):
Cs Lewis points this out.
When Christ came in, he wouldsay it's like he came in behind
enemy lines and now we had aninvasion of the good.
And this is what we know.
And we have to seek thisbecause I think you have to to
your point there.
We have to decide which one ofthese statements is true.
Either you're an accident ofhistory, right, just biology.
(40:18):
To your point there.
We have to decide which one ofthese statements is true.
Either you're an accident ofhistory, right, just biology.
Or you're created.
And that's really the only twoways.
Either I am created or I'm justan accident.
Atoms hitting atoms hittingatoms.
But when we look out in theworld, our heart seeks the truth
.
You know this is different thanthe animals.
If you say I'm just a blob oftissue, then why do I have
reason and intellect?
Why do I have free will.
(40:39):
Why do I not just let nature,like a dog is gonna, you know,
go after a female in heat andwithout any repercussion?
I mean, this is it.
You know, this is the storyhere.
Well, that's what they do innature.
And, of course, too many humanbeings live like that now,
because they're disconnectedfrom their reason, from their
intellect.
You know, bishop Sheen talkedabout this and he said you know,
(41:01):
when you walk away from God,your intellect and your reason
can become, in essence, veryunreasonable.
And aren't we seeing this today?
Speaker 1 (41:10):
Oh yes, also, something else Fulton Sheen said
that I have always taken toheart is you have to live how
you believe, because if youdon't, you're going to start
believing.
Believe that, and I can't dothat for very long, before long.
If I'm living like a hedonistor as if my life doesn't matter
(41:44):
and it's just a clump of cellsand I'm an accident of history,
I'm going to believe that, nomatter what I say upon my lips,
and I'm going to take that intomy heart.
So Fulton Sheen oftenchallenged people to use the
title of your podcast Become whoyou Really Are.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
Yeah, and you have to declare it.
That's such a great point.
St Paul says that in Romans10.10,.
You know, I say I believe,which I do right, and then I'm
justified in my heart, but thenI have to go out and confess
with my lips.
He said when you justify inyour heart, then you're
basically redeemed.
But he said when you confesswith your lips, then you are
(42:20):
saved, then you are saved.
In other words, I have to putinto practice and I have to
proclaim it.
Because when we speak the wordsin truth now, right, when I
speak about reality, truth, no,I'm not gonna use a pronoun.
No, a baby is not just a clumpof cells.
No, a man can't become a woman.
I have to speak those truthsand I have to do it in love,
(42:42):
right?
St Edith Stein, who became StTeresa of Benedicta of the Cross
, right before she went to thegas chamber she said speak the
truth in love and love people inthe truth.
One without the other is adestructive lie.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
I need to read more Edith Stein.
That's amazing.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
You know read, if you want to look that up John Paul,
he canonized her and that waspart of his homily.
So just if you Googlecanonization of St Teresa, of
Benedicta or Edith Stein, whowas also a philosopher, of
course, with John Paul's homily.
It's a beautiful homily.
(43:21):
I printed that out years agoand I've never forgot that.
As we start to wind down heretoday, it's so important, I
think, for all of us to realizethat when we have wars and
bickering and relationshipproblems and bickering and
relationship problems GKChesterton was so good at this,
you know saying hey, you know,love your enemy, because a lot
of times your family is yourenemy in essence, you know, so
(43:48):
they're one and the same.
He said sometimes and it's true,and I remember this years ago,
I remember about 10 years intomy marriage, just a long time
ago now, and I thought it wasirreconcilable.
We were done and I was justlooking for a time to get out of
this thing right.
We had three small children atthat time and then I got into
John Paul's work and in essenceI heard him say and Christopher
(44:10):
West also, and other peoplestudying theology of the body,
you know, your wife is not theenemy and other people studying
theology of the body.
You know, your wife is not theenemy, the enemy is the enemy,
and he would like nothing betterthan to pick you two off over
stupid, idiotic things.
And sometimes they're not sostupid and sometimes they're not
so idiotic, but a lot of timesthey are, or at least they can
(44:32):
be reconciled.
But when I started to look atmy wife and I started to realize
you know what?
What happens if he's right?
What happens if she's not myenemy?
The enemy is the enemy.
And I started to get on myknees and pray and, just like
you did when you were sufferingfrom darkness, say of depression
and stuff, you get a differentlens, don't you?
(44:52):
And you start to see the worldthrough a different lens, and it
does change things.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
It does Sometimes we need to take.
We can become so accustomed toseeing the same people, the same
things every day and it becomesmonotonous for us.
But if we can just take aminute, even a few minutes a day
to try to look at things theway God sees us, the way that
God sees the world, you know, asunset's no longer a sunset.
It's God every morning sayingdo it again.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
Yes do it again.
It's beautiful, huh.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
Yeah, and it's a wonderful thing to look at the
world that way, and for me it'salmost like the darkness becomes
illuminated with a bright light, and I can see things a lot
more clearer then.
Speaker 2 (45:33):
Yes, boy, that's a beautiful image, isn't it?
That's a beautiful way to lookat the world.
Here I would say that it's ourresponsibility, as we start to
wind down Michael, here, toshare this truth with people.
I think that this book, andespecially for young people when
we're talking about youngpeople, I'm not talking about
little kids here, we're talkingmostly to 17, 18, some
(45:53):
16-year-olds, but mostly 17, 18,and up for this, claymore
Miletus Christi Certainly ableto read books if they want to,
and this is not a hard book toread, I wouldn't say.
I would say we've got a lot ofgood books out there.
Get some of these books thatwe're recommending.
This is a great way to startbecause, again, I think this is
a handbook to really define thebattle.
(46:15):
God most powerful, and I'mgoing to hold this up and again
I'll put this in.
I hope you can see that.
And look, there's St Michaelwith the sword.
Again, yes, always.
Why does he always have a swordright?
There's a reason for that, Ithink, and I have a little altar
set up.
I mentioned to you right beforewe came on the show.
It's right in my office.
(46:36):
I pray there every morning withour Blessed Mother Crucifix, st
Michael, a picture of John PaulII, candle, holy water, the
blessed salts, etc.
And I just get down in front ofthat.
I don't miss that, because if Imiss that my day is not the
same.
And so even when I go on trips,I say those prayers even if I'm
(47:02):
not home.
But the point again being, weneed to help people, educate
them into prayer life.
It's not time-consuming, atleast in the beginning.
I think you become moreconsumed with it because it's so
beautiful, to your point, butit's.
You know, prayer is like anall-day thing.
You know here, with the divinemercy, jesus, I trust in you.
(47:25):
Just say that, jesus, I trustin you, and that short prayer
that'll change your heart.
You say that enough.
Speaker 1 (47:31):
Oh, yeah, no, that's one of those things.
Make that your dailyaffirmation.
If you have to Put it on apost-it note Jesus, I trust in
you.
I have a similar thing where I,when I'm in the depths you know
the worst kind of depression Ihave an icon of Christ that I
say you're God, I'm not, pleasehelp, and I think that little
(47:52):
thing sometimes is in a momentI'll feel just an instantaneous
bit of relief of going well,yeah, I'm acknowledging our
relationship and I'macknowledging the one who can
help me.
Speaker 2 (48:05):
What's the prognosis?
It sounds like you've been atthis for a long time.
Is there progress with this?
I mean, you're describingprogress, but I want you to say
I don't want to put words inyour mouth Can you, as we go out
here, can you just share justin a minute, you know just like?
Is there hope for me?
Speaker 1 (48:22):
if I'm suffering like this, and will it get better at
all, or am I just stuck withthis battle?
It will get better.
It's going to be like a lot ofthings.
I almost compare it to havingdiabetes.
You're not going to necessarilycure it overnight, but you're
going to find treatment plans.
You might find a new diet andexercise regimen.
You're going to find treatmentplans.
You might find a new diet andexercise regimen.
You're going to find somethingthat will help, and those things
will make your life so muchbetter and, more than anything,
(48:43):
it will make the battles alittle lighter, especially when
you realize for me, who'sadopted a few saints in my
little army of people I pray forand ask them to pray for me.
You have allies in the battleand that can make the biggest
difference in the world.
Speaker 2 (48:59):
Yes, Well, thank you.
So we'll leave with hope.
I'll remind everybody downloadthe Claymore Militist Christie
Battle Plan.
The link will be in the shownotes, along with the link to
where you can purchase this bookfrom Sophia Institute Press and
Michael Litchens.
You are a pleasure, young man.
I hope we get you back on theshow.
(49:19):
Maybe we can come on and talkabout your book.
What's the name of that?
Speaker 1 (49:23):
book.
It's called Weird CatholicHandbook.
You can also find it atsophiastudiocom.
If you ever wondered aboutweird things like bone churches
or old Catholic ghost stories,that's the book for you.
Speaker 2 (49:34):
Beautiful.
I got to get a copy of that.
That sounds awesome, brother.
Thank you.
Hey, thanks everyone.
Thanks for joining us today.
Appreciate it.
Talk to you again soon.
Bye-bye.
Basically, what happened is he realized that the
way to conquer his depressionwas with wonder and that little
insight to look at everything,to look at a blade of grass or a
piece of chalk and go there isso much good in this world.
He had a phrase that the worlddoesn't lack from a want of
wonders, but a lack of wonder myunderstanding.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
You know, from talking to these young people,
it's not always a pill thathelps and it's not always
therapy that helps.
You need God, you know so agood, I think, a good therapist
and I'm not a doctor, but I'vejust seen it in action A good
therapist will lead you.
In fact, carl Jung spoke aboutthis.
There are more.
It's a stay with reality, staywith what's true.
(00:40):
When I see these genderideologies and you tell young
children that a boy can become agirl, which is not reality,
which is not truth, which isscientifically impossible.
But we start grooming themearly and we do that with these
use of pronouns and we have tobe very careful with this.
Somebody asked me Jack, why areyou against using pronouns?
(01:03):
What's the big deal?
And I said it's a big dealbecause when you walk away from
reality, because when we speakthe words in truth, now, right,
when I speak about reality,truth, no, I'm not going to use
a pronoun.
No, a baby is not just a clumpof cells.
No, a man can't become a woman.
I have to speak those truthsand I have to do it in love,
(01:25):
right, st Edith Stein, whobecame St Teresa of Benedicta of
the Cross right before she wentto the gas chamber she said
Speak the truth in love and lovepeople in the truth.
One without the other is adestructive lie.
(01:52):
Welcome to the Become who youAre podcast, a production of the
John Paul II Renewal Center.
I'm Jack Riggert, your host.
Special shout-out again to theyoung people that are joining us
, especially the young people ofClaymore.
Miletus Christie.
That's the sword in the back.
I also have a statue here toprotect Mr Litchens today and
he's here with me to discussthis battle of good and evil.
(02:14):
You know, as all of you know,my heart goes out to these young
people that have been growingup in this toxic culture and
they're looking for somethingmore Well, as soon as they do,
michael and I'll bring you on ina second, but as soon as they
do, they're going to confrontthis battle between good and
evil.
John Paul would say you know,it's an exterior evil you see in
(02:34):
the world, but it starts inthat interior evil, that battle
between good and evil done andit's fought on the battlefield
of each human heart.
So I'm excited to have MichaelLitchens back with me.
Michael is an author, he's donea lot of things, he's got a
great background.
He just did a show with me lastweek and I'm glad to have him
back to discuss good and evil,michael welcome.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Thanks, Jack.
It's always a joy to join you.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
I'm going to give them a little bit of your
background.
You come from a favorite placeof mine which is around Denver,
colorado, in the Rocky Mountains.
I used to live there.
I've got family there now.
Michael is an author, editor,researcher with a passion for
the overlooked aspects ofChristian history.
He's a former editor ofCatholic Exchange as well as the
St Austin Review.
(03:20):
He's a frequent guest on radioand television shows on which he
shares strange and delightfulthings about faith and Review.
He's a frequent guest on radioand television shows on which he
shares strange and delightfulthings about faith and history.
With an MA from the Universityof Chicago Divinity School and a
BA in philosophy, michaelespecially loves reading
anything from St Augustine GKChesterton I'd probably say
Lewis in there.
You've got to be reading Lewistoo, michael, if you've done all
(03:42):
that right.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
From the time I was a child.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
And probably a little Aquinas that you've thrown in
there too.
Yes, but when he's not busywriting about bone churches,
which we talked about in thelast show, go listen to the last
show and local history can befound editing books for authors
or leading tours of oldbuildings in the American West
I'm going to take him up on that.
Old Buildings in the AmericanWest, I'm going to take him up
on that.
Or in Rome, following hiswriting and other adventures at
(04:07):
M-L-I-C-H-E-N-S.
So that's Michael and his lastname's Litchenscom, and I'll
have that in the show notes,where he describes himself as a
faith-filled beer critic.
I love that.
With a writing problem, Michael, so good to have you back.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
It's great to be here , Jack.
Thanks again.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
You know we're going to be discussing good and evil,
but we're going to do it througha book that you and I both read
.
The name of it is God MostPowerful, and this is very
interesting because it's anexorcist, a famous exorcist,
father Gabriel Amorth.
Father Gabriel Amorth, hewrites it and he says this in
the front of the book anexorcist's testament to God's
(04:47):
victory over the devil.
What did you think about thatbook, michael?
Speaker 1 (04:51):
I was surprised about the book.
I've read Father Amorth a lot.
I wrote a small chapter abouthim in my book and I've long
admired him.
So when the Sophia InstitutePress wanted a spokesperson, I
jumped up with joy and I read me, let me.
And then I read it and I wasblown away because it was not
what I was expecting.
But it's a wonderful, beautifulbook.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
So, yeah, I felt the same way and here's why I wanted
to have you on the show today,for these young people
especially and look at, thisisn't just for these young
people, this is for all thepeople that love them and each
one of us that are trying tosurvive marriages and keep our
families together and justtrying to make sense of all this
.
This is what he does, Michael,doesn't he?
In this book.
(05:32):
It's not like you just said.
It's not like his other books,where he pretty much talks about
his experiences as an exorcistin various ways right here,
don't you think it's kind of ahandbook on how we get through
this battle and understand thisbattle.
He talks about all kinds ofthings in here, answers all
kinds of questions.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Yeah, it's really almost a mini-catechism for
stealing yourself up forspiritual warfare.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Yes, it is.
He even quotes that famous andI should have opened it up that
famous line from St Paul inEphesians 6, right, we're not
fighting against the flesh,we're fighting against powers
and principalities, about thedarkness and the rulers of this
age.
St Paul writes about this 2,000years ago and it's more real, I
(06:19):
think, today.
I mean, you know, I don't knowabout St Paul, he went through
his stuff, right, but it can'tbe any more real today than what
we're all experiencing in thisbattle.
I mean, don't you feel ityourself?
Speaker 1 (06:30):
I certainly do.
I think there's long been a waragainst what is good, true and
beautiful, since Adam and Eve.
The devil has waged that war,but now he has many, many allies
.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Yeah, St Lucia, and I think this is the crux of the
battle.
I mean, we see it in a lot ofmanifestations, but St Lucia,
the famous and main visionary Iwould say main just because she
lasted so long she died in 2005,the same year John Paul did and
St Lucia is a good friend ofmine, we speak all the time.
Paul did, and St Lucia is agood friend of mine, we speak
(07:07):
all the time and she said youknow so, she had visions of our
Blessed Mother at Fatima andafter that.
And she said the last greatbattle between our Lord and
Satan is taking place in essence, and it's over marriage and the
family, and we see the mostbrutal attack against young
people and against children.
Do you see that?
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Oh yes, especially against young people.
My heart goes out to young men,especially because I know I
struggled, you know, with havingso many things, conflicted and
telling me what's good, what'sthe right path for me to go
forward.
And it's only and I was, youknow, I was the MySpace kid.
It's only gotten worse.
I can't even imagine I didn'thave YouTube growing up, so I
(07:47):
can't even imagine what youngmen are struggling with right
now.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Yeah, and they're searching and they're looking
for the truth and this is whatFather Amorth brings out over
and over and over again is truthand reality.
Truth and reality.
Where do you find the truth?
What is real?
How should I live my life right?
What is my identity?
All those things that John Paulspoke of and our saints spoke
of and Jesus Christ spoke of andScripture speaks of, and Father
(08:14):
Amorth just brings it upthrough his own lens and does it
in a slightly different anglesometimes, but you could tell
exactly where he's going withthis.
It's really beautiful.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
It is beautiful and what I love about this book more
than anything, rather than hewarns against being too afraid
of the devil but also iscautious.
The devil's real.
We have to accept it.
But we can't give him too muchcredit because he is not nearly
as powerful as the Lord.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Yeah, but he's powerful to us.
If we let him in, you know, ifwe let him in and that's what's
happening in our culture, ofcourse is we're rejecting our
protection, which is our Lord,as you just stated, and we're
allowing this.
You know, I was talking to anexorcist myself, a friend of
mine, a priest, of course, andhe said you know these portals,
jack, that families are openingup fathers in their own homes by
(09:04):
looking at pornography anddoing different things.
You open a portal to evil inyour own house and you bring
that evil upon all of us.
When we're speaking to youngpeople, sometimes we said well,
didn't somebody watch over whatyou're looking at?
How did you get intopornography, how did you get
into these problems?
And they said you know, my dadwatches porn, and I didn't think
(09:25):
it was a big deal.
And, oh man, you just go.
You know there's so manyfatherless kids, first of all
and Father Amorth speaks of thatin here and how fathers are
supposed to be the educators oftheir children.
They are supposed to be passingdown the faith.
Not only are we meeting toomany young people that don't
even know their fathers, theygrew up out of wedlock or have
(09:50):
fathers that don't share thefaith with them, live in the
same house, perhaps love them,but aren't sharing the faith,
and when you don't, you justleave these young people
vulnerable.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
It's almost a form of neglect, to my mind, because
you're leaving.
It's like bringing up a childand never explaining money to
them.
What are you preparing them for?
The world is going to chew themup and spit them out.
Well, what are we doing when wedon't talk about good and evil,
when we don't talk about thetrue, the good and the beautiful
and tell them where to find it?
We're basically putting kidsout, unequipped to deal with the
(10:23):
world as it is.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
It is and we're not giving them.
There's no hope, then, becausewhen they get captured into
these things.
They become anxious, depressed.
Too many of them are sufferingfrom various mental illnesses.
At least, when you share thefaith, they'll turn around at
some point right and they'll saythere's got to be something
more.
But they don't have anything.
It's like you know, it's likestarting to fall down a sand
(10:46):
dune, with that sand slidingdown and there's no base,
there's no foundation.
At least if you have afoundation, you're going to stop
at some point and God can catchyou and you know you bounce
back up again.
It was very interesting.
Angelo Simone alluded to thisin the foreword to the book and
he's speaking to all of us, inthese young people, and he says
(11:09):
this you are drawn to and I'mgoing to paraphrase a little bit
but you're drawn to pause andreflect on your own life and
then further drawn to place yourlife in harmony with the
purpose for which God createdyou.
And so when Father Amorthspeaks of evil and Satan, he
didn't want us to lose our focuson, and to continue to glimpse
(11:29):
the goodness of God, thekindness of God which, as you
alluded to, already holds thedevil in check.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Absolutely, and that's one of my favorite things
about this book is it's sopractical in that the best
defense against the devil is toshore up on the good, to
remember who your Lord is, to goto confession, go to Mass and
to pray daily.
With that, we have no fear ofhim whatsoever.
We don't even have to pay himany mind outside of
(11:59):
acknowledging that he isfighting us and we are waging a
war.
We don't have to be obsessedand worried about him because we
already have all the protectionwe need.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
You know, that reminds me of this exorcist,
this friend of mine that I justmentioned.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
That's what he said.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
He said Jack, if you just live a traditional right, a
basic Catholic life, like yousaid, prayer, we have the holy
water, we have sacraments, wehave the rosary, we have great
literature, we have great saintsand philosophers that have come
down through history, the GKChestertons of the world, st
Augustines of the world.
(12:35):
You know, everything is therebut we're not doing it.
You know, and too many youngpeople don't read anymore and
we're really trying to get themwith these books and books like
we're talking about today that Ithink they'll all find
interesting because I thinkthey'll experience this in their
own heart.
But when they sit, michael andyou're a writer, when you sit in
(12:57):
great literature, it changesyour mind.
We talked about this on ourlast show.
It changes your mind.
We talked about this on our lastshow how Alessandro, who
murdered little Saint MariaGoretti, and he said later on
how reading dark literature andthings that brought poison into
his mind really brought him intothis evil story.
(13:19):
And it wasn't until MariaGoretti appeared to him.
Remember, michael, oh, yes.
And then he started to readgreat literature and he became a
great reader of greatDostoevsky and Tolstoy and many
others, and they changed hiswhole heart and they changed his
whole mind.
We don't realize that, do we,michael?
(13:40):
When we bring porn and thesegraphic images into our hearts,
we change, we change, we changewe change.
We change.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
We oftentimes not for the better.
It warps our sense of reality,our sense of other human beings.
But the good news is that theopposite can happen.
When you read good books, whenyou read great, you know the
saints or the Bible, yousuddenly find that your mind has
changed.
You're softening a little bitbecause you've learned about
forgiveness, you're kinder topeople because you learned
(14:08):
that's the better way to goabout.
And I mean I know goodliterature has saved my life and
I know that's true for many,many people out there.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Unpack that a little bit when you say that Sure.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
I would say, like I've written about it before,
but I suffer from a very severeform of depression, and when I
say severe, it's been alife-altering having to deal
with it.
And GK Chesterton was thatfirst author who really, because
he himself suffered from verydebilitating depression.
I didn't realize that.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
As much as I've read GK Chesterton, I never realized
that no one would, because heBasically what happened is.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
He realized that the way to conquer his depression
was with wonder and that littleinsight to look at everything,
to look at a blade of grass or apiece of chalk and go there is
so much good in this world.
He had a phrase that the worlddoesn't lack from a want of
wonders, but a lack of wonder.
And that's exactly what.
What it completely changed mymind.
(15:06):
Suddenly I look at trees andI'm thinking thank you, lord,
for this wonderful bit ofgreenery I get to see every day.
It gives me oxygen, it gives meshade and I get to look at it
and just admire it for being inexistence.
And that profoundly changed mylife as a young man.
It took me from going okay,this is never going to happen.
(15:27):
Maybe suicide's the only answer, maybe that's the only logical
conclusion to this.
And Jehoshaphat said no,there's a much more logical
conclusion and that's to go outand realize the wonder of God's
creation.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
And now, look, I don't want to get too personal
with you, but did you start tocome out of it then?
And then you know what do youhave to do today?
Because there's peoplelistening to this show that also
are anxious and they also getdepressed and they also have
felt the suicide.
And we talk to these youngpeople all the time.
You can go into a very darkplace, you know, sometimes you
(16:01):
have to see a doctor orpsychologist, et cetera, but
most of the time myunderstanding you know from
talking to these young peopleit's not always a pill that
helps and it's not alwaystherapy that helps.
You need God, you know.
So, a good, I think, a goodtherapist and I'm not a doctor,
but I've just seen it in actionA good therapist will lead you,
(16:21):
in fact, carl Young spoke aboutthis.
He said this I'm going to justparaphrase again and you've
probably heard this, but it wasin A man in Search of His Soul
Great book.
I have it on my shelf and hesaid in the last 35 years.
No, he says as of the age of 35, he's getting old now and he's
(16:44):
looking back at his life andhe's saying, okay, whoever came
to me Now, he's a famouspsychologist, right, he's known
all over the world.
He lives in Switzerland, butrich clients are coming in,
everybody's coming in to see him, and he's looking back how did
I help people and why did theycome to me?
And he analyzes it and he goes,you know, in the from the age
(17:08):
of 35 years old and up.
He's talking about his clients.
He said I, I realized nobodyever came to me that hadn't lost
what mankind has had from thevery beginning, which is a
religious outlook on life.
And he said this, which is justprofound.
He said and I realized no onewas truly healed that did not
regain what they had lost, thatreligious outlook on life.
(17:28):
This is Carl Jung, you know,who was a secularist in the
beginning.
You know he came to believe inGod, maybe not the Christian God
, but he knew there was a higherpower.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
He certainly did, and I think he hit the nail on the
head in that analysis because,while I've been helped
wonderfully by some greattherapists and doctors and I
still need to see them onoccasion what really helped me,
especially this last year when Ijust had one of the hands down
the worst year of my life,really oh yes, oh yes.
(17:59):
And what really helped me,strangely enough, was when I
started compiling stories for mybook and reading all these
wonderful stories from thesaints and you know, visiting
ghosts and talking to heavenlyspirits and meeting angels, and
all these wonderful stories thatchallenged me to look at the
world anew, new and I think,what we don't get in a lot of
(18:23):
materialist secularism, we, ifthis is all there is, what on
earth are we doing?
You know, why am I getting outof bed if this is all there is?
All there is is money.
You know, billy joel askedfamously is that all you get
with your money?
A canoe car and a nice house athackasack, like?
yeah that's all.
But, suddenly the world is somuch more and there's so much
(18:46):
more to live for, and suddenlydeath isn't nearly the scary
thing, because there is hopethere too.
And I think that just takingthe world and almost like
Copernicus did with his newsolar system, change everything.
Change how you orbit the worldNow.
Suddenly it's a different placeagain, and when your heart is
(19:08):
filled with that wonder and thatgratitude I can speak from
personal experience it changeseverything.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
Yeah that's beautiful to see, if you had to.
You know, besides GK, look, I'mon a roll here just because I
deal with this and I love togive people someone to listen to
, to talk to when you feel let'ssay you feel a depression
coming on.
I have a brother that sufferedfrom depression for a long, long
(19:35):
time and when you feel thatcoming on, are there any go-to
things that you do now?
I mean, I've never haddepression, so I'm here as
someone just asking for others.
Maybe Is there with thesetelltale signs?
I suppose can you feelsomething coming on.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
Oh yes, there are telltale signs.
The telltale sign I look for iswhen I start seeing
meaninglessness in everything,when I think there's no meaning
to anything we do.
I think especially young menright now.
I had a friend of mine who is apsychiatrist who said that she
swears young men will crawl overa broken glass to find meaning.
And that has been true for meand true for a lot of men I know
(20:16):
.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Wow, wow, wow.
Say that again, because I'mlooking at that sword behind me
again.
This is what that battle'sabout.
So can you say that again,because I don't want them to
lose what you said.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Sure no.
I had a friend who's apsychiatrist who told me she
really believed that young menwould crawl over broken glass to
find meaning, because they justcan't find it in this world.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Wow, now she knew that from the experience of her
own practice Exactly, and she'snot even a Catholic, this friend
of mine.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
She's not a Catholic we haven't had a good
conversation about God in awhile but I don't think she's
even Christian.
But she saw this just in herpatience that they needed that
search for meaning.
We're both fans of ViktorFrankl and his book Man's.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Search for Meaning.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
Yes, yes, yes, there's another great book, oh
yeah, if anyone's listening tothis, we're recommending a lot
of great books.
That one, please put it in yourbooks to read in 2025.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
I agree, I agree.
What a story.
You know what?
I'd love to get her back onwith you sometime, if she's
willing just to talk to theseyoung people that we're talking
to Michael.
So reach out to her, we'd loveto do that.
You know, father of more bringsus back to the beginning and
it's very, very important.
You know.
He talks about Genesis 3, wherethis evil comes in.
(21:30):
But, but, but I think it'sbeautiful.
You, you mentioned creation, thebeauty of it.
Yesterday I was, I was sittingoutside, it was nice out, I went
out on my bicycle, I did a niceworkout and I was sitting
outside, the sun was out and andthen, very quickly, a storm
came up.
Instead of going inside, I satthere Now, it wasn't raining yet
, but lightning and the darkclouds came and the winds
(21:53):
started to blow and I just was.
It was spectacular in its powerand, to your point, right, you
just start to, instead ofrunning in, I just start to look
at the trees and I heard thebirds, you know, getting quieter
, you know, and they had beensinging so loud.
And then the power of the storm, and then the rain started and
(22:14):
I still sat out there and it wasjust amazing, you know, and I,
and I thought the wonder of god,huh, and yet, yet, of all of
that, we are created, we're thecrown of creation.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Yes, we are.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
So when you really want to see this and you really
want to get out, you see otherhuman beings right, and we
receive that power, that grace,that beauty of God and we see it
through creation.
We internalize that, but thenwe have to go out and we have to
become that and that's whatwe're trying to do.
The name of the podcast is theBecome who you Are podcast,
(22:50):
because we want to share this,michael, because when we don't
share our experiences withpeople and Father Amorth again,
this is coming right from hisbook we have to share our
experiences and if we don't,then they're lost.
So he takes us back all the way, just like John Paul loved to
do in Genesis.
I'm going to read you just acouple of verses from Genesis,
chapter one.
(23:10):
You know, this is the firstthing God tells us in the Bible,
so it must be important, right?
Let us make man in our image,after our likeness.
So it's our O-U-R.
Right?
I'm not up here by myself, I'ma community.
And then let him have dominionover the fish, the sea, the
birds, all of this creation, hesays.
And then he says he like, drawsback into himself, you know.
(23:32):
And he says God created man inhis image, in the divine image.
He created them, male andfemale.
He created them.
God blessed them, saying befertile, multiply, fill the
earth and subdue it.
It's yours, these are all giftsI'm giving you this creation,
but you're the crown of creation, you're in my image and it's
because we have reason, we haveintellect, we have free will.
And here, michael, with no sin,we're in union and communion
(23:56):
with God, right?
I mean, this is what God wantedfor us not to be walking alone
in our anxiety and our fears,even in our depressions, right,
but to walk with him.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Absolutely and what I love also about.
As Thomas Aquinas pointed outwith Genesis, god did it
completely of his own volition.
He had no need for us.
He doesn't need us.
He's not lonely or anythinglike that.
The Trinity is able to conceiveitself in love, but he did it
because he wanted to.
So you and I are both creationsof God, not for any need of
(24:31):
God's part, but because hewanted to create you.
He wanted you and I to be heretoday and have this conversation
, and he wanted all thelisteners to be with us.
And that's suddenly that littletruth that I have to remind
myself constantly is alife-saving truth, because
suddenly no man is useless orrepetitive.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
They're an unrepeatable miracle in God's
creation we're going to ask youto join us by helping us get the
word out.
So, if you can make sure yousubscribe and then hit like, no
matter which platform you're on,remember, remember that the
Become who you Are podcast is onaudio and any music or podcast
app we're up on Rumble YouTube.
(25:10):
You can find us on X.
When you do subscribe, hit thelike button.
A couple things to share withpeople Love Ed.
Love Ed is just such animportant apostolate, so it's
within our apostolate, the JohnPaul II Renewal Center.
This helps parents give thetalk to their children.
(25:31):
We're trying to push back onall these gender ideologies and
the porn culture and givechildren the truth and do it
through their parents, and wehelp them do that.
The other one is really takenoff too.
It's Claymore Miletus Christi,soldiers for Christ.
That's where you see the swordbehind me.
(25:51):
That's the big sword.
That's our logo for Claymore,that's a Claymore sword.
And this is for young people,especially young men, gen Z,
high school, all the way through, let's call it, until they're
30 years old or so.
They're starting to reallyunderstand that something
nefarious, very toxic, is goingon in the culture, and so
they're stepping into the churchand we're discipling them.
(26:13):
So we want to help get the wordout about those things and,
lastly, try to consider at leastconsider financially supporting
us.
Everything's in the show notes.
Hey, god bless you.
Thanks again.
We'll be right back to today'sshow.
You know, what did Jesus ask us?
And this Father, this Creator,this God, the Father, what did
(26:34):
Jesus ask us to call him?
What did Jesus himself call him?
Do you remember the term?
Speaker 1 (26:40):
I remember he called us friends, but he called them
Abba.
Abba, that's right.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
And that translates into Papa, Not only like Father,
my Father, but, yes, my Father,but Abba, Papa.
And this is the relationshipJesus says that God wants with
us, like a Papa, like a Father.
So not only did he create us,but he created us in this
beautiful love story.
When we walk away from him,like we did in Genesis 3, we
(27:09):
said no, we'll be like godsright, We'll call good evil and
evil good.
And this is exactly what we'reseeing today.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
Yes, we.
As Father Amorth points out,even going back to creation.
The devil's best trick is totempt us to believe that we know
better than God or to see Godas an unjust huskmaster.
We have to rebel against andagain still knowing better than
him, and that's the furthestthing from the truth.
It was untrue with Adam and Eveand it's untrue now.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
And you know, I listened to a little snippet of
the diary of Sister Faustinaevery morning.
It's part of this Claymorebattle plan.
We're on our knees, we open upour heart, and then I listen to
a little snippet on my app andit's 30 seconds usually, but if
you listen to it every day, youjust hear Jesus speaking to
Sister Faustina and this is forall of us with the divine mercy
(28:01):
image.
Right, jesus, I trust in youbehind me.
And the water and the bloodpours out, huh, the water of
forgiveness and redemption, andthen the blood itself, which is
his body and blood that he justwants us to consume so that we
become united again, as it waskind of in the beginning.
Right, we'll never get ourinnocence totally back, but St
(28:22):
Paul says says this is evenbetter, and I'm going to bring
this up because Father O'Marthdoes.
He says God permits evil.
He has to permit it.
Right, the devil just can't doanything with us, but he only
permits it.
St Paul would say up to ourstrength.
Right, it can never reallyoverpower us.
If we understood that, and thesaints and the mystics
(28:44):
understood this very well.
And so at the end of the day,you know he's calling us back
into this love story, isn't he?
Speaker 1 (28:52):
He absolutely is, and I think that's a very beautiful
image.
He's calling us back to it,which is the literal meaning of
conversion.
Returning to you know, goingback to where you needed to
start again and that's probablyone of my favorite Christian
messages is no matter whatyou've done, start again and
that's totally fine.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
It is totally fine and he permits this.
So we actually experience evil.
In other words, when I rejectGod or I'm just tempted to the
point where maybe I didn'treject God but I still fall,
we're going to fall.
St John the evangelist says ifyou don't call yourself a sinner
(29:32):
, you're a liar.
He said because we are.
But he said God permits it forour own experience.
He's going to be there for us.
He's watching, just like a dadhere on earth, like my dad, or
with my kids or my grandkids.
You allow them to take somesteps away from you, right?
(29:52):
They're going to have toexperience life, and when they
experience life, they're goingto experience evil.
When I accidentally open upagain this porn app or whatever
when I'm young, and then thisevil comes in, there's all kinds
of things like this right and Iexperience this evil Sometimes.
As Father Amorth would say, godallows us to experience this
(30:12):
evil so that we understand it,we understand the force behind
it, and so when we turn back tohim, we don't take for granted
that grace and that love and wecan distinguish it.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
This is very powerful , I think, yes, it's a powerful,
and you see it in people'slives.
So many lives I've seen whereit has changed so much for the
better because they suddenlyhave that meaning in their lives
and there's someone they knowwho loves them and is working
for their good and you have toknow you're loved.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
Yes, you know that.
You have to know you're loved.
And yes, you have to knowyou're loved and you have to
open yourself up to God.
When you do, when you ask, youknow I love.
Matthew 7, verse 7, and Jesusturns to his disciples and he's
teaching all of us.
He said ask, seek and knock.
And then he talks about look,if you go to the Father or your
(31:03):
Father on earth and you ask fora fish, you know, I don't
remember the exact analogy, butis he going to give you a rock
or something you can't eat orwhatever?
No, he's going to give you afish if he can right.
Yes.
And he says if you ask, seek andknock, he says what do you
think we're going to ignore youor not give you what you want?
You know, and, of course, forthose who have tried this, god's
(31:28):
not a vending machine.
You don't put a dollar and getthe candy bar out because he
wants you to battle with him,right?
You know, we don't just get thefree right and we wouldn't want
it as men, just like youalluded to earlier, we would run
over broken glass.
I think you said right To findthe truth, and so we have to put
some effort in and we don'tcare.
That's why we have the sword.
We're there to battle for ourown hearts and for those of our
(31:49):
loved ones, but we're doing itwith God.
That changes everything.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
No, I think you're right on that one having a
partner in that, not just in God, but in the whole communion of
saints, that there is alwayssomeone praying for you and a
God intervening for you.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
And I think that's what you said earlier right,
that you start to meet thesesaints and mystics and these
different people.
Can you build a relationshipwith those saints and mystics
and angels you mentioned?
Speaker 1 (32:16):
Oh, I believe so.
In fact, I'm of the belief thatsometimes we choose our patron
saints, but just as often apatron saint chooses us Like.
I don't think St Joseph and Iare like this because of just
accidents of history.
I think he and I are attractedto one another for a very good
reason and I've seen his prayerand his power, so I'm a huge fan
(32:37):
of St Joseph.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
In case anyone wonders, yeah, now what draws
you, you to him and vice versa,do you think?
Speaker 1 (32:44):
I think what attracts me to him is that he does
his—throughout the Gospels.
You know, he doesn't actuallysay anything in the Gospel, we
don't have any great lines orgreat quotes from him.
But we know his characterbecause when the archangel
Gabriel comes to him and tellshim what's going on with Mary,
he immediately acts, and he doesthat multiple times.
He doesn't, you know, say, well, what's in it for me?
(33:05):
Well, you know, why would I dothat?
He just he hears his duty andhe acts on it and he fulfills
his duty to the best he can.
And that's something I find.
I think that's like just anideal form of masculinity in
general, like when you know whatyour duty is, you just do it.
You don't need to wait forthanks or a parade, you're just
going to do it because you knowit's going to be better for the
(33:27):
world if you do.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
And I could see St Joseph and I think this is a
model for fathers, that it's inour activities with our sons.
You know, you can see St Joseph, you know, teaching him how to
be a carpenter, say, and youknow something would happen.
And he say, and you knowsomething would happen.
And he'd say, see, and he'dgive him a life lesson, I'm sure
.
And the same thing, you knowwhen we're catching fish, right,
(33:49):
and say, my son or my daughtercatches a fish, and you say, hey
, glory to God, huh, thank youGod for that fish.
Just simple things.
And you're teaching, teachingteachings, or you're teaching
patience.
Hey, let's have some patience.
You know, not everything comesto you at once.
This is what a father does.
You know, we think, well, howdo I get this down to my kids?
Hey, spend time with your kids,you know, have a faith, so you
(34:10):
have something to share, but youdon't have to push it.
You pray on that.
And the same thing with yourfriends, your neighbors, you
know, whoever.
Sometimes I know in my own life, when I want to share something
with someone that I think theyneed to hear and I don't know
how to say it, the best thingfor me is not to say it Not
right then, but I pray on it andthe Holy Spirit will give me
(34:33):
the words at the right time andthe right place.
He does it over and over andover again.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
Amen to that.
That's exactly among the thingsI love about St Joseph is.
there's a great story out herein new mexico where saint joseph
built a miraculous staircasefor a group of nuns who needed a
staircase up to their chapel sothey sit, pray a novena, a
carpenter shows up with histools, builds them the staircase
, leaves without any payment,without gratitude or anything,
(35:02):
and the nuns could never figureout who it was.
No one knew this mysterious man.
Even the lumberyard said hedidn't get the lumber from us,
so we don't know.
And that, to me, is such agreat model of Joseph.
He didn't need to have a paradefor him.
Like I said, he just knew hehad a duty and he loved the
people who were praying to himand he said okay, I'll help you
(35:24):
out.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
Yeah, do you remember how long ago that was, that
story?
That was in 1870.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
Sometime in the 1870s in Santa Fe it's still there,
isn't it?
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Yes, it is.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
It's no longer a chapel, but the staircase is
very much there, and architectsand engineers have studied it.
It's an incredible piece ofwork.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
Now, what is it in right now?
I mean, can people visit it andsee it?
Speaker 1 (35:47):
Yes, it's in what's called the Loretto Chapel, which
used to belong to the Lorettosisters.
It's now a museum and a weddingvenue.
The staircase everyone justGoogle St Joseph's Staircase, it
will come up.
It's a spiral staircase with nosupport beams or a center
railing to support it, so it'sself-supporting, which takes a
(36:09):
high quality of craftsmanship,and well we know Joseph was a
carpenter, so it makes sensethat he would just have this
knowledge to build such awonderful staircase.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
That's what I remember reading that it was
very unusual, very difficult,the way this was built, right
the way St Joseph built it.
Do you know what city that's?
In Santa Fe?
Okay, santa Fe.
My son covers parts of NewMexico on business and I'm going
to have to tell him about that.
I'll see him next week inColorado.
(36:40):
By the time this show airs Iwill have been there and I hope
to relate that to him.
You know, one of the otherthings that we have to be
careful of today is this abuseof language, the changing of
language.
Again, father Amort says staywith reality, stay with what's
true.
When I see these genderideologies and we call it, you
(37:04):
know, you tell young childrenthat a boy can become a girl,
which is not reality, which isnot truth, which is
scientifically impossible.
But we start grooming themearly and we do that with these
use of pronouns and we have tobe very careful with this.
Somebody asked me, jack, whyare you against using pronouns?
What's the big deal?
And I said it's a big dealbecause when you walk away from
(37:26):
reality, when you walk away fromtruth, you can get and you can
lead these people, these youngpeople.
See, truth is a power.
You know, Plato talked aboutthat.
He talked about our sensualpower, eros.
He would call it.
Eros is the Greek goddess oflove, so it was a sensual
movement of the heart.
But he said, with that sensualmovement it doesn't just stop
(37:47):
there, it's seeking thatmovement of the heart and also
for what's true, good andbeautiful, especially the beauty
of love.
What is that right?
And so when you distort andtwist truth and reality, just
like I read about, god createdus in his image, male and female
.
He created them when youdistort these things, as even
some people in the church, wegot the Father James Martins of
(38:09):
the world, et cetera, et cetera,distorting this truth and I
hope Pope Leo does somethingwith them.
Francis loved them, forwhatever reason, and you think
well, and of course we'resupposed to love him.
I have to love Father Martin,of course, but we have to point
out that we have to point outthese lies, because when you
abuse language, when you don'tspeak the truth, people really
(38:29):
get hurt.
And so when a young person sayscall me, they call me them
plural for a single person, youknow again, satan can move into
these areas and they're moredangerous than you think.
Any comments on that?
Speaker 1 (38:44):
Sure Well, Father Amorth does talk about that
quite a bit in this book that weneed to always remember the
truth and to cling to it.
I think the lies start evenyounger now.
When we tell people thatthey're nothing but a clump of
cells in the product, I'm notnecessarily trying to say that
we're not made up of cells.
We are, obviously, but we're somuch more than that.
(39:06):
We're not just, you know, askin suit full of organs.
We're much, much more than that.
And when we reduce our humanitydown to basically just another
animal in the animal kingdom,well, no wonder people are
frustrated and depressed andhaving trouble with things
because they don't realize theirown value.
Like you said earlier, you haveto love yourself and you have
(39:26):
to love your real self.
You have to be able to seeyourself as God sees you, which
is a wonderful part of hiscreation.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
Yeah, and we are fallen you know and God knows
that God knows that and so he,you know.
That's why you know, when youlook at a bit of crucifix,
that's love being poured out.
But again, the second word forlove John Paul pointed out so
often is mercy.
And of course he is because theFather knows we didn't come
into this neutral world, we cameinto a world at war.
(39:56):
Cs Lewis points this out.
When Christ came in, he wouldsay it's like he came in behind
enemy lines and now we had aninvasion of the good.
And this is what we know.
And we have to seek thisbecause I think you have to to
your point there.
We have to decide which one ofthese statements is true.
Either you're an accident ofhistory, right, just biology.
(40:18):
To your point there.
We have to decide which one ofthese statements is true.
Either you're an accident ofhistory, right, just biology.
Or you're created.
And that's really the only twoways.
Either I am created or I'm justan accident.
Atoms hitting atoms hittingatoms.
But when we look out in theworld, our heart seeks the truth
.
You know this is different thanthe animals.
If you say I'm just a blob oftissue, then why do I have
reason and intellect?
Why do I have free will.
(40:39):
Why do I not just let nature,like a dog is gonna, you know,
go after a female in heat andwithout any repercussion?
I mean, this is it.
You know, this is the storyhere.
Well, that's what they do innature.
And, of course, too many humanbeings live like that now,
because they're disconnectedfrom their reason, from their
intellect.
You know, bishop Sheen talkedabout this and he said you know,
(41:01):
when you walk away from God,your intellect and your reason
can become, in essence, veryunreasonable.
And aren't we seeing this today?
Speaker 1 (41:10):
Oh yes, also, something else Fulton Sheen said
that I have always taken toheart is you have to live how
you believe, because if youdon't, you're going to start
believing.
Believe that, and I can't dothat for very long, before long.
If I'm living like a hedonistor as if my life doesn't matter
(41:44):
and it's just a clump of cellsand I'm an accident of history,
I'm going to believe that, nomatter what I say upon my lips,
and I'm going to take that intomy heart.
So Fulton Sheen oftenchallenged people to use the
title of your podcast Become whoyou Really Are.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
Yeah, and you have to declare it.
That's such a great point.
St Paul says that in Romans10.10,.
You know, I say I believe,which I do right, and then I'm
justified in my heart, but thenI have to go out and confess
with my lips.
He said when you justify inyour heart, then you're
basically redeemed.
But he said when you confesswith your lips, then you are
(42:20):
saved, then you are saved.
In other words, I have to putinto practice and I have to
proclaim it.
Because when we speak the wordsin truth now, right, when I
speak about reality, truth, no,I'm not gonna use a pronoun.
No, a baby is not just a clumpof cells.
No, a man can't become a woman.
I have to speak those truthsand I have to do it in love,
(42:42):
right?
St Edith Stein, who became StTeresa of Benedicta of the Cross
, right before she went to thegas chamber she said speak the
truth in love and love people inthe truth.
One without the other is adestructive lie.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
I need to read more Edith Stein.
That's amazing.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
You know read, if you want to look that up John Paul,
he canonized her and that waspart of his homily.
So just if you Googlecanonization of St Teresa, of
Benedicta or Edith Stein, whowas also a philosopher, of
course, with John Paul's homily.
It's a beautiful homily.
(43:21):
I printed that out years agoand I've never forgot that.
As we start to wind down heretoday, it's so important, I
think, for all of us to realizethat when we have wars and
bickering and relationshipproblems and bickering and
relationship problems GKChesterton was so good at this,
you know saying hey, you know,love your enemy, because a lot
of times your family is yourenemy in essence, you know, so
(43:48):
they're one and the same.
He said sometimes and it's true,and I remember this years ago,
I remember about 10 years intomy marriage, just a long time
ago now, and I thought it wasirreconcilable.
We were done and I was justlooking for a time to get out of
this thing right.
We had three small children atthat time and then I got into
John Paul's work and in essenceI heard him say and Christopher
(44:10):
West also, and other peoplestudying theology of the body,
you know, your wife is not theenemy and other people studying
theology of the body.
You know, your wife is not theenemy, the enemy is the enemy,
and he would like nothing betterthan to pick you two off over
stupid, idiotic things.
And sometimes they're not sostupid and sometimes they're not
so idiotic, but a lot of timesthey are, or at least they can
(44:32):
be reconciled.
But when I started to look atmy wife and I started to realize
you know what?
What happens if he's right?
What happens if she's not myenemy?
The enemy is the enemy.
And I started to get on myknees and pray and, just like
you did when you were sufferingfrom darkness, say of depression
and stuff, you get a differentlens, don't you?
(44:52):
And you start to see the worldthrough a different lens, and it
does change things.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
It does Sometimes we need to take.
We can become so accustomed toseeing the same people, the same
things every day and it becomesmonotonous for us.
But if we can just take aminute, even a few minutes a day
to try to look at things theway God sees us, the way that
God sees the world, you know, asunset's no longer a sunset.
It's God every morning sayingdo it again.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
Yes do it again.
It's beautiful, huh.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
Yeah, and it's a wonderful thing to look at the
world that way, and for me it'salmost like the darkness becomes
illuminated with a bright light, and I can see things a lot
more clearer then.
Speaker 2 (45:33):
Yes, boy, that's a beautiful image, isn't it?
That's a beautiful way to lookat the world.
Here I would say that it's ourresponsibility, as we start to
wind down Michael, here, toshare this truth with people.
I think that this book, andespecially for young people when
we're talking about youngpeople, I'm not talking about
little kids here, we're talkingmostly to 17, 18, some
(45:53):
16-year-olds, but mostly 17, 18,and up for this, claymore
Miletus Christi Certainly ableto read books if they want to,
and this is not a hard book toread, I wouldn't say.
I would say we've got a lot ofgood books out there.
Get some of these books thatwe're recommending.
This is a great way to startbecause, again, I think this is
a handbook to really define thebattle.
(46:15):
God most powerful, and I'mgoing to hold this up and again
I'll put this in.
I hope you can see that.
And look, there's St Michaelwith the sword.
Again, yes, always.
Why does he always have a swordright?
There's a reason for that, Ithink, and I have a little altar
set up.
I mentioned to you right beforewe came on the show.
It's right in my office.
(46:36):
I pray there every morning withour Blessed Mother Crucifix, st
Michael, a picture of John PaulII, candle, holy water, the
blessed salts, etc.
And I just get down in front ofthat.
I don't miss that, because if Imiss that my day is not the
same.
And so even when I go on trips,I say those prayers even if I'm
(47:02):
not home.
But the point again being, weneed to help people, educate
them into prayer life.
It's not time-consuming, atleast in the beginning.
I think you become moreconsumed with it because it's so
beautiful, to your point, butit's.
You know, prayer is like anall-day thing.
You know here, with the divinemercy, jesus, I trust in you.
(47:25):
Just say that, jesus, I trustin you, and that short prayer
that'll change your heart.
You say that enough.
Speaker 1 (47:31):
Oh, yeah, no, that's one of those things.
Make that your dailyaffirmation.
If you have to Put it on apost-it note Jesus, I trust in
you.
I have a similar thing where I,when I'm in the depths you know
the worst kind of depression Ihave an icon of Christ that I
say you're God, I'm not, pleasehelp, and I think that little
(47:52):
thing sometimes is in a momentI'll feel just an instantaneous
bit of relief of going well,yeah, I'm acknowledging our
relationship and I'macknowledging the one who can
help me.
Speaker 2 (48:05):
What's the prognosis?
It sounds like you've been atthis for a long time.
Is there progress with this?
I mean, you're describingprogress, but I want you to say
I don't want to put words inyour mouth Can you, as we go out
here, can you just share justin a minute, you know just like?
Is there hope for me?
Speaker 1 (48:22):
if I'm suffering like this, and will it get better at
all, or am I just stuck withthis battle?
It will get better.
It's going to be like a lot ofthings.
I almost compare it to havingdiabetes.
You're not going to necessarilycure it overnight, but you're
going to find treatment plans.
You might find a new diet andexercise regimen.
You're going to find treatmentplans.
You might find a new diet andexercise regimen.
You're going to find somethingthat will help, and those things
will make your life so muchbetter and, more than anything,
(48:43):
it will make the battles alittle lighter, especially when
you realize for me, who'sadopted a few saints in my
little army of people I pray forand ask them to pray for me.
You have allies in the battleand that can make the biggest
difference in the world.
Speaker 2 (48:59):
Yes, Well, thank you.
So we'll leave with hope.
I'll remind everybody downloadthe Claymore Militist Christie
Battle Plan.
The link will be in the shownotes, along with the link to
where you can purchase this bookfrom Sophia Institute Press and
Michael Litchens.
You are a pleasure, young man.
I hope we get you back on theshow.
(49:19):
Maybe we can come on and talkabout your book.
What's the name of that?
Speaker 1 (49:23):
book.
It's called Weird CatholicHandbook.
You can also find it atsophiastudiocom.
If you ever wondered aboutweird things like bone churches
or old Catholic ghost stories,that's the book for you.
Speaker 2 (49:34):
Beautiful.
I got to get a copy of that.
That sounds awesome, brother.
Thank you.
Hey, thanks everyone.
Thanks for joining us today.
Appreciate it.
Talk to you again soon.
Bye-bye.
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