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Meet Rob Marco! He not only shares his own remarkable journey but introduces us to St. Philip Neri, a 16th-century saint, who combined profound holiness with infectious joy!
It's Philip's unique combination of deep prayer and playful humor that truly sets him apart. As Rob explains, "Philip needed to take himself less seriously. He needed his book of jokes, his book of medicine, to bring him back down to earth after these ecstasies."
Perhaps most remarkable about Saint Philip Neri was his extraordinary mystical experience at age 29. While praying for the gifts of the Holy Spirit, he had a vision of a globe of fire entering through his mouth and settling in his heart. This experience physically enlarged his heart to twice its normal size, even breaking several ribs. For the rest of his life, his heart would beat with such intensity that others could hear and feel it. This physical manifestation represented his overwhelming love for God and humanity.
Find Rob's book "Coached by Philip Neri: Lessons in Joy" from Scepter Publishers or on Amazon, and dive into a refreshing approach to holiness that might be exactly what our troubled world needs today.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:13):
Welcome to the Become who you Are podcast, a
production of the John Paul IIRenewal Center.
I'm Jack Riggert, your host.
You know, one of the perks ofmy job is meeting wonderful,
interesting people from allwalks of life, and not only do
we get a chance to hear theirjourney and their story, but
also learn about the saints whomade an impact on their lives.
Rob Markle is one of thosepeople, and St Philip Neary is
(00:35):
one of those saints.
Rob is a married father ofthree, holds an MA in theology
from Villanova University andhas appeared on EWTN's the
Journey Home, and his writinghas been featured at Crisis
Magazine, 1 Peter 5, CatholicWorld Report and other Catholic
publications.
He's the author of Wisdom andFolly, collected essays on faith
(00:56):
, life and everything in between, and his latest book, Coached
by Philip Neary.
Rob, great to be with you.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Hey, thanks, great to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
So tell us a little bit about that journey.
Now, just tell people I wasexpecting a beard from you,
because I've got a buddy, kevinWells, who wrote actually the
foreword to your book.
He's a wonderful guy too, isn'the?
Rob?
He sure is yep, and so I wasexpecting it, but you just
shaved it off and you did it.
You did it just a couple weeksago, huh you know what it's like
(01:29):
.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
It's like those buddhists that do the uh sand
mandalas.
They spend months on this thingand then they just blow it away
to show impermanence, you knowwhat?
Speaker 1 (01:37):
what is your, your, your married father or three?
What does your wife think whenyou're growing a long beard like
that?
Speaker 2 (01:43):
she likes a beard because she's five years older
than me, so she gets a littleself-conscious about me looking
too young so now that it's, okaytakes about 10 years off my
life.
So yes, it does I look a lotyounger but that's okay.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
I'm the the oldest of five boys, robin and uh and the
other guys have beards, uh, and, and you're right and and
they're all silver now.
You know our beards right there.
They lost some of the color weused to have in them and in it,
and when they do shave they dolook younger, there's no doubt
about it, yeah, so tell us alittle bit about that.
I, and again, I'm gonna.
(02:17):
I think I'll link that journeyhome um article that used that.
Uh, I have that link.
It's really good.
We won't be able to do thewhole thing In fact, we could do
a whole show just on that butlet's hit a couple of highlights
on that journey home.
Tell us a little bit about thatand yourself.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Yeah, that was great.
I was on the journey home in2018, I think right before
Marcus Grodi had retired.
I talk about my conversionstory as like a funnel.
You know, like I was raised ina secular, mixed faith
environment where my father wasCatholic and my mother was
(02:55):
Episcopalian, but neither ofthem really practiced the faith
and I grew up not knowinganything about Jesus Christ or,
you know, I just knew there wasa God, but that was about all I
knew.
And then I had some powerfulconversion experiences in my
teens and it was kind of earlyon where I realized there was a
(03:15):
God.
I went, I was like involved inlike these underground hardcore
shows that you know like kind oflike rock concerts, but they
were really fast and kind ofmosh pits and things like this,
and this was one was in aChristian church, which is
surprising because these areusually the punk rockers,
they're not really likereligious.
But the pastor of that churchgot up and prayed over everyone
(03:38):
before you know, the show wasending and I felt the Holy
Spirit.
Like you know, it was aProtestant pastor, but I still
he sent the Holy Spirit.
I felt like a rush of wind cutthrough me and I was convicted
of my sin.
So I went from going to likebelieving in not believing in
God to believing in God torealizing I was a sinner.
Then I was on a three-day solobackpacking trip where I was
(04:02):
like 16 or 17.
I had my father drop me off upnear north of Scranton, PA, and
just pick me up three days laterand during that time I ran out
of food, I didn't have enoughclothing, I lost my map and I
prayed for the first time duringthat time that the Lord would
help me and even though I didn'tknow who the Lord was so kind
(04:23):
of like the Israelites cryingout in the desert for a God they
didn't know.
And I found my map miraculously.
I had to retrace my steps forabout half a mile and I found a
hand on the back of my.
It was strange because I founda hand on the back of my back
leading me into the bush, andthen I put my hand out and there
was my map.
So I had these kind ofconversion.
And then the rest of becomingcatholic was kind of boring
(04:45):
actually, because I went touniversity and I just found a
catholic mass and I went thereand I asked about learning to
become catholic.
They told me I was too late forrcia, I'd have to wait till
next year.
I didn't want to wait.
I found a byzantine priest,nothing like that.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
You know the protestants bringing you back in
with the spirit, right.
They're not afraid to do that.
Nothing like a good Catholicpastor that's going to blow you
off right, come back in a year.
Yeah, come back in a year,right, it's amazing.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
But I mean, god's grace was really working,
because I wanted to at leastlearn more about what it meant
to be Catholic.
And then I found a Byzantinepriest who gave me one-on-one
catechism once a week, and thenI came into the Byzantine Rite
of the church that December.
So I was 18 years old.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Yeah, and just for our audience that may not be
familiar with it, you know theByzantines are Catholic.
You know there's a wonderfulCatholic pastor here, thomas
Loya, who loves theology of thebody, and you know we talk here
and there and that's a Catholicright.
It's really the more you diginto this not that I want to
(05:50):
berate the point here, but justto clear that up that you come
into the Byzantines and you'reCatholic.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
It's a little different.
We're all one.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Well, thank you for that, and again I'm going to
link that because I think it'sworth reading the whole thing,
it's.
I think what comes out of that,rob, is that you know, and we
can't be afraid and this is whatSt Philip Neri says, you know,
because he was a lay person fora long time you know I didn't
realize it until I read yourbook that he was 36 when he
became a priest, and so we can'tbe afraid to kind of, you know,
(06:28):
lay hands in our own littleways and we'll talk about that
and to bring that spirit thatwe're feeling sometimes into the
public square.
You know, the Holy Spirit wantsto work.
You know, this is a crazy,crazy time.
So what was it about, st PhilipNeri, that touched you enough
that you say because thesesaints and again one more point
(06:50):
for our audience, rob thesesaints will journey with us,
won't they, if we allow them to?
You know, God is.
You know, he said this in thereading today at Mass.
You know, I'm not the God ofthe dead right, I'm the God of
Abraham.
He's speaking to Moses at theburning bush, abraham, jacob and
Isaac, you know, and Jesus saidthe same thing.
(07:12):
He goes no, no, no, you'rewrong.
You don't know the scriptures.
God is God of the living, huh.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
And so that's what these saints do so again.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
you know what got you going there St Philip, neri and
not some other saints.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Well, it's funny because I didn't come to St
Philip Neri probably until afterI was married.
We've been just celebrating our15-year anniversary, but before
that I had discerned religiouslife for about 10 years.
So St Anthony of the Desert wasa favorite saint of mine.
St John the Baptist all theseaesthetics.
Desert was a favorite saint ofmine.
Saint john the baptist allthese aesthetics.
But it wasn't until I met mywife that I realized that having
(07:48):
a sense of humor was really onthe top of my list in terms of
somebody I was looking for in amate like.
I didn't really have a formallist of qualities I was looking
for, but I realized after thefact that the fact that I could
be myself around my wife, um,joke around with her, we can, we
have a good of humor thatreally gets you through a lot of
hard times.
And then realizing that youknow, philip Neary was one of
(08:09):
those unique saints in the factthat we don't hear too much
about saints that are known fortheir humor or their.
You know their sense, theirlevity, you know that they have
a lightheartedness about them.
So we're attracted to.
You know his lack of formality,his informal nature, his love
of humor and using humor for thebenefit of the gospel.
(08:31):
Those are things that attractedme and realized like I kind of
wanted a spiritual grandfatherwho I could identify with.
And Philip Neary, in that sense, was one that I was attracted
to.
So the more I learned about him, the more he became attractive
to me in the sense of this is aguy I can relate to.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
I think and this is such an important point that
you're making here See the swordbehind me, rob.
That's a big Claymore swordmade famous by William Wallace
in the movie Braveheart.
And this is an apostle that wehave for young people, but
especially for young men, and itcomes out of John Paul II's
teaching.
It's a symbol really of justpicking up that sword and going
(09:09):
out and living life full, and Ithink that's what we're talking
about here.
He laughed, he had joy abouthim and the other side, he was
just in love with our Lord andSavior right and with God, and
he lived that life of virtue.
And you made this point in thebook.
I really liked it a lot.
(09:30):
If you're just joy and laughterand joking around without the
virtue, without the God part,you become a jokester or a
prankster, like a class clown.
But when you add virtue,there's this way of joy and
laughter and joking around andstill upholding that virtue.
And that's what he did, didn'the?
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Yeah, it's almost like he earned the right.
I think I said in the book.
He's got the street cred, youknow, because he would spend
long periods of time in solitudeand prayer.
He was known to never havecommitted a mortal sin and so to
use humor.
It's funny because it's kind ofnot really well known that you
(10:12):
know he used humor for himselfas a way of bringing him back
down to earth because he wouldbe carried away in these
ecstasies.
When he became a priest later inlife he had trouble, like you
know not not shaking andconvulsing because well, maybe
we'll talk about the issue withhis heart later but he used this
book of jokes to kind of bringhim back down to earth and he
(10:34):
used humor as a way of relatingto people as well.
But it wasn't in this kind ofbuffoon kind of way, except
towards himself, because heneeded these, towards himself,
because he needed these, heneeded to take himself less
seriously and he needed his bookof jokes, his book of medicine,
to bring him back down to earthafter these ecstasies.
Because it was, it was somewhatembarrassing to him.
It's kind of like Padre Pio,you know, with the stigmata.
(10:54):
It was like he didn't want tobring attention to it.
It was embarrassing and so, buthe was a holy man, so he needed
to.
It was almost like he becameone of us.
You know he needed to.
It was almost like he becameone of us.
You know, he was a man.
He was a mere mortal, you know,but he was also a saint.
He became one of us, kind oflike, because we could relate to
him through humor.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
And the beauty of that and I know from Padre Pio I
love Padre Pio.
I have a band on my wrist thatI've been wearing forever.
You know, pray, hope and don'tworry from Padre Pio.
But he also was known among hisown monks to be a prankster and
I think he did it for the samereason.
You know you have to have somefun, man, and get some laughter
going right, otherwise you knowyou can drive yourself crazy.
(11:42):
Let's talk about it.
You do this wonderful story onSecretariat, on the horse that
won.
That you know was justincredible.
That year won the Triple Crown.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
That was actually Kevin in his foreword.
Kevin did in the foreword yes,because he was a former sports
writer.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Yes, yes, yes, but you make the analogy and this is
where I want you to go, if youdon't mind to talk about.
You know you draw of 29.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
And it's kind of a bizarre scenario where the Holy
Spirit, the love of God, hadcome into his, through his mouth
(12:32):
, down to his heart, as a globalfire, and it actually enlarged
his heart.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
What was he set that up?
A little bit, rob Was hepraying then, he was praying for
?
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Yes, he was praying for the gifts of the Holy Spirit
and he was praying specificallyfor the Holy Spirit to give him
the graces that he was askingfor.
And the response to that wasthat the Lord enlarged his heart
, his physical heart, to twicethe size of his regular heart,
broke a couple of his ribs inthe process and would lead him
(13:08):
the rest of his life to be likehe could be in the middle of
winter and be sweating, you know, or not wearing any coats or
anything, and there would betimes where people close to him
penitents would feel the beatingof his heart like it would
reverberate so strongly.
So it was kind of a physicalmanifestation of a grace that
was just, you know, because wetalk about the sacred heart of
(13:29):
the Lord, the heart is importantto the Lord, our hearts and his
heart.
But in this sense, with PhilipNeri, he took his physical heart
and made it twice as big as itwas.
So I think Kevin used thatstory of the racehorse
Secretariat to draw an analogywhich was kind of cool.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Yeah, because Secretariat also had that double
heart, you know thatdouble-sized heart.
When they found out in anautopsy right Later on, I didn't
realize that either until Kevinwrote that in the book.
But he did a good job, huh,pulling that and allowing your
story with Philip Neri's heartto come out.
Pulling it and allowing yourstory with Philip Neri's heart
(14:09):
to come out, with this hugeheart, he could walk in and to
your point.
And I think this is great forthe laity, great for these young
people.
We always tell them, hey, don'tjust do this by yourself,
disciple one another, and thenmake sure you go and fill
yourself up.
You can't give what you don'thave.
But then when you go outthey'll say you know how should
I do this?
Blah, blah, blah.
And we just say, hey, look atyou know, pray to the Holy
Spirit, you know, read yourscripture, get down on your
(14:32):
knees.
And that's what Philip Nearydid.
He was quasi loose, right, hedidn't have like this, this plan
.
I always think you know one ofthe big things you know if you
want to make God laugh, tell himyour plans.
And at the end of the day Rob,I think that's true Let God put
some plans in front of you andtry to listen and follow them.
(14:53):
And that's really.
I got that sense big time fromSt Philip Neri.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
You know, jack, it's interesting you say that because
that's that's a point that whenthe podcast be who you are, you
know St Philip Neary wasCardinal Newman said anything
that was was systematic pleasedhim not and just part of his
nature.
He was more informal.
He wasn't like you know, he wasa contemporary of St St
(15:22):
Ignatius, but St Ignatius waslike a soldier, he was like boom
, boom, boom and Philip was morelike a friend.
You know he would walk on thestreets and talk with people.
I say he took the organicapproach you know to friendships
, to relationships, to buildingup relationships, to bring
people to the gospel with theultimate goal.
But it didn't have like asystematic plan.
(15:43):
So anything that was like formal, even the formation of the
oratory which we can maybe talkabout later, is it was never, it
was never set up as like amonastic order.
It was a um, a very.
It still has an informalcollection of priests and lay
people who get together and readthe, read the scriptures, sing
(16:04):
hymns.
You know it's pretty simple inthat sense.
So I think that that'simportant to know that Philip,
as his nature you know St Thomastalks about like grace perfects
nature his nature was not of aformal person.
It also wasn't one that wasprepared to go on the missions
as like he originally thought.
And then a Cistercian that hadthe gift of prophecy came to him
(16:26):
and said Rome will be yourIndies.
You have to stay here and dothe work.
So it's kind of a bloom whereyou're planted thing With the
laity.
I think that's important toknow.
That, like however God made youis how you're meant to carry
out your work for the gospel.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
We all have different temperaments and things like
that, and philip neary reallyutilized his own temperament to
the best of his ability ah, andand and, the power again of
joining that joy, that laughteragain linking it, like you said
to to virtue earlier we weretalking about, is we need to do
the same thing.
Whatever talent God gave me,you know.
(17:03):
Whatever that is, you know,don't downplay that.
You know, whatever you know.
Sometimes we think we don'thave enough.
We don't know enough.
You know, I got to study thisfirst and study that first.
But Jesus himself, and so didMoses, brought to me.
They said hey, you know, thisplan isn't like pie in the sky
or you got to go over the sea tograb it.
(17:25):
It's right around you and youhave that in here.
I wrote it down somewhere.
For behold, the kingdom of Godis in the midst of you.
That came from Luke 17.
Don't look elsewhere.
The kingdom of God is in themidst of you.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
And that's the point you were just making.
And God is also looking for areturn on his investment.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
He doesn't want you burying it in a savings account,
not getting interest, you know,yeah, yeah, take it out right,
don't put the light under abushel basket, and I think
that's just so important for allof us.
You know, when your heartstarts to get on fire, you know,
I always think I think it wasJeremiah Rob that I'm pretty
sure he kept trying to get awayand he goes, and he finally said
you duped me, lord, you dupedme right, Whatever talent I have
(18:11):
yeah, you want me to use it,and I think this is so important
because one of the questions Iwanted to ask you is if you
think if St Philip Neri walkedinto our world today, he had
plenty of problems in his world.
I don't know if he would haveany more than we have.
You know, if we look at thisthing holistically, it's a
(18:32):
beating we're taking out there.
A lot of people leave in thechurch, you know.
I think you said for every onethat comes in, there are five
leaving.
So we can't get discouraged,can we?
And we just got to do what wecan do.
You know, god's plan is outthere.
We fit into it somehow anddon't be afraid, right, go out
(18:54):
and do it.
And I think that's what PhilipNeary would kind of tell us.
But what do you think?
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Yeah, and there's a lot of work to do too.
The.
Lord said, you know that theharvest is great but the workers
are few.
And if you're consideringyourself a worker, it can get
lonely sometimes to be out therelaboring in the Lord's vineyard
, and we need brothers to.
And so you know his famousPhilip's famous saying well,
brothers, when will we begin todo?
Good, you know that was.
(19:21):
The whole thing is that itdoesn't have to be perfect, it
doesn't have to be successfulnecessarily, but we have to do
the effort, we have to put thework in, and that work might
look different for each person,but the work takes courage
Sometimes.
It takes effort, it takescourage and it takes the grace
of the Holy Spirit, which theLord is willing to provide, to
(19:44):
do the work.
We just have to kind ofsometimes get out of the way,
sometimes just be amenable toreceiving that grace.
But we have to also, by ourwill, our free will, be saying
yes, lord, send me, I'm here,I'm here, send me.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
What happens is this.
You know, and you talk about itin the book.
There are some saints thatdon't want to be with other
people, right, they want to justlive that monastic life.
But he loved the balance.
He loved the balance just likeour Lord did, right, go out,
meet with the people, be withthe people, but then take time
to pray.
And it was so beautiful inthere.
(20:19):
It reminds me of John Paul'stheology of the body, where he
follows Jesus into the beginning.
And it starts with these threeexperiences, and the first one
is original solitude, and that'swhat Philip Neri would go off,
just like Jesus did, in thatsolitude.
And you said somethingimportant in there.
It said it's not about I'm justparaphrasing, but it's not to
(20:42):
endure solitude or being alone.
It's about learning who you areand who the Lord is.
So then, when I come togetherwith other people, I can receive
this love and then be this lovein the world.
And you made that point so well.
I thought it was beautiful.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Yeah, exactly, and that comes a lot from Thomas the
Compass in the Imitation ofChrist, where he says and
sometimes, when I've gone out inthe company of men, I've come
back less a man, and so we needthat reset.
We see it in the Lord, the Lordgoing off to lonely places to
pray, to recharge.
So Philip was really one ofthose contemplative active
(21:22):
fusions.
You know that like he wasactive in ministry but it wasn't
, you know he knew he needed.
He could be for hours prayingand he would go into ecstasy
sometimes where his limbs wouldturn numb just from praying for
so long.
But he also recognized thatwhen people came to his room he
said Carl Newman said he wouldleave Christ for Christ.
(21:43):
You know he would leave Christfor Christ.
And he said people could chopwood on my back as far as they
want, as long as they don't sin,you know.
So if people would interrupthim, like you know, if he was
praying in his room, he wouldcome right down.
It was like this charity ofhimself that he would give of
himself to other people sounselfishly.
(22:03):
And I think a lot of timesthat's convicting for us,
because we were like I want myquiet time, or, you know, the
kids are coming in and botheringme, or you know I don't want to
do this parish ministry, wecan't get overextended.
But to the extent that we needto be charitable with our own
self and our time, I thinkthat's something a lot of us can
(22:23):
learn from that.
There's a lot we can give thatwe hold back from, you know,
from giving just out ofselfishness.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Yeah, how many parents I just to bring it right
up to speed here, how manyparents that I speak to?
And you know there's reasonsfor that.
They're tired, they're cominghome from work, they're both
working whatever.
But it's so important.
We tell men all the time, rob,it's so important when you walk
in that door that is not thetime to be selfish.
(22:50):
I mean, you know you're goingto have to find a time later on
to do it, but if those kids runup to you and they want to see
you, your wife actually comesthe door and says hello.
Right, in a lot of cases it'snot because she's tired and
you're home Now she wants todisappear.
Right, if she's been home for awhile.
And we understand all this.
But at the end of the day, ifyou can just give that boom,
give back and just remember hey,this is not about me.
(23:12):
You've got to dig deep, rob,for some of that.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
But that makes a big impact.
It's also a noble vocation too,because Philip Neary, he wasn't
married, I mean, for most ofhis life he was a layman, then
he became a priest.
For us married men, ourvocations are different, but the
domestic church is our home andwe build up from the ground up.
(23:36):
We build strong familiesthrough good fathership and
mothership.
And then we, you know, we buildup these families and then
those become witnesses in thepublic realm of why does this
family do what they do?
Why do they go to church onSundays?
Why do they pray before theirmeals?
You know.
So we serve as that witness.
But we need strong families.
St John Chrysostom talks aboutthat.
When everything is in order,you know, and the children are
(23:58):
raised well, everything takesoff from there.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Yeah, and this is where you're really seeing the
cultural breakdown, and I thinkthis is what's making it worse
than probably any other time inhistory.
Wars were always there,families were divided up, all
kinds of things happen all thetime.
But here we're just doing itpurposely.
You know, we we 43% of everychild born in the United States
(24:26):
today is born out of wedlock.
You just can't make this stuffup right.
In certain big cities like NewYork and I'm here in Chicago,
outside of Chicago, we'reaborting as many children that
are being born and you just go,whoa man.
And then we, you know, we losteven the meaning of marriage
itself.
What is marriage?
It could be anything,everything.
(24:46):
And these poor kids, we meetRob in high schools and stuff,
we do high school retreats andthings, and they are confused
brother.
So, yeah, when you can setthose kind of examples in your
own little way, it's animportant thing to do.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Yeah, I think the thing about Philip Neary was
that he was a light.
He was a I think CardinalNewman talks about it like a
magnet to iron filaments Likepeople were drawn to him because
of his joy and his personality.
We can be that light as well,whether it's as a father to kids
who don't have fathers, as amother to mother people who are,
(25:25):
you know, young girls, or evenjust as a family unit to be a
witness to those who don't havethat, don't even have any basis
for what a healthy family lookslike, or a Christian family, you
know.
So we can be that, and then wehave these saints.
Philip Neary is just one ofthem, but for me, he was a great
example of ones that you can be.
You can draw people to yourself, not through a harsh
(25:53):
personality, but somebody whodraws people in just because
they like being around them.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
I love that.
When I was a young guy I waskind of a quasi-hippie of sorts
and, like you in your journeyhome, I was into the Buddha and
I was into Eastern.
I mean, we're searching right,and this is what I think we're
missing today too, because whenwe don't go into silence, rob,
(26:17):
you said about the heart theheart is the core.
That's why we talk aboutJesus's heart and our hearts so
much, because you know thecatechism starts out, you know,
right in the beginning, sectionone, chapter one, paragraph one,
with the heart.
And the heart means the core ofwho we are, kind of body, soul,
conscience, everything, thecore of who we are.
(26:38):
That heart stops beatingphysically, but also the soul,
right, the heart of the soulstops.
So we get that in silence.
Huh, we get that.
It's so important for usbecause we're not.
We're kind of living gettingblown around by the spirit of
the age.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
I was going to say I make an analogy a lot that I
don't know where I came up withit, but like the church and the
religion are.
You know, people get down onorganized religion, but I like
to think of the church andreligion as the skeleton that
keeps all the organs protected.
It holds up the body, it givesus form, it gives us something
you know, enables us to walkaround.
(27:14):
If we were just heart and justskin and organs, we'd be a blob
on the floor, you know.
So the church is just asimportant, and you know Philip
was.
You know he would always bringpeople back to the sacraments,
to the mass, to the scriptures,to hymns and to each other.
But all of that encompasses thebody of the church and that,
you know, for better or worse,it's an organized religion.
(27:36):
I think it's for better, but alot of people see it as
something that's, um, they don'tneed.
But I think they're sufferingbecause of that, because they
don't have any purpose, theydon't have any structure or
self-discipline or form, or evensomebody telling them you
shouldn't do that or you shoulddo that.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
There's a reason why we don't do this you know, yeah,
and I think that that came outin in your uh, you know in in
your story Again, we got theBuddha, we got Confucius, we got
all these different things.
But at the end, if you sit insilence and this is my earlier
point that I probably didn'tfinish If you sit in silence,
you start to understand, youseek the truth.
(28:11):
I think, especially as youngmen the young men that we know,
I was like that, you were likethat in your story right, we're
seeking the truth.
And now we don't seek the truth.
You know, we're just gettingblown around in this world of
moral relativism.
And that's what the church givesus to your point.
It gives us the structure.
Here's the Ten Commandments,you know, here's these teachings
(28:31):
, etc.
Etc.
It keeps you on these guiderails so that when you're
searching for the truth, you'renot making a disaster out of
your whole life.
You know and you don't havethat in other even you know
Protestant denominations.
You know that I can go down thestreet and hear a pastor say
something totally different.
(28:52):
Now I can hear a priest do thattoo in a Catholic church, but I
know what he's saying is notthe truth.
And we know that we have thisbeauty, don't we Rob, of it just
being passed down, and thesesaints lived this out in
different ways.
It's amazing.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Yeah, the four marks of the church was really a big
part of my conversion.
It's one, so it's one, whetheryou're in Mozambique or Russia
or United States.
Holy, you know.
The church itself is holy, eventhough the members aren't
always apostolic.
One holy Catholic.
So it's universal and apostolic, which means it's passed down
(29:27):
from the apostles.
That's really important.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
It's so important.
We tried to goof up our kids asmuch as we could.
When we were younger, I marrieda non-practicing Methodist and
I was a non-practicing catholic.
When we got married kind oflike your in a sense your
parents, you know where you saidthey didn't really have that
strong.
I think your father had astronger faith.
Right at least was going tochurch.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
Yeah, I mean my mother and yeah, I mean they
would go to church here andthere.
But he had a catholicbackground, but he had a very.
He didn't have much of acatechesis, um, so he didn't
really know much about the faith.
It was just so a lot of mycatechism later in life was
teaching my father things aboutthe faith, um, and hoping to
bring him back confession andmass and everything like that.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
So my uh, our oldest daughter was baptized Catholic,
and then the next two werebaptized Methodist, and and and
so, anyways, my son graduatesfrom college and he came home to
live for a little while, and mybuddies from the local Catholic
church.
I was going to said, hey,congratulations on your son,
jake.
And I said he's a smart kid.
(30:33):
What do you think he was goingto get out of college?
He goes no, no, no, he's anRCIA.
And he was going to surprise me.
He didn't know.
I knew everybody and I asked him.
I said Jake, how come you knowhe was just out of college.
I said how come you decided todo that?
And he said Dad, you rememberwe used to sit there and you
told me this story one time.
(30:55):
He said you're an old mansitting on a rocking chair and
you were starting to get it, butthen you look back and you saw
how much damage you did to otherpeople because you had no
guideline, no rules, no, nothingto live by.
And he said I didn't want thenext new wave religion.
I had enough of that already incollege.
And he said I wanted somethingwith deep roots.
(31:17):
And I started to study differentreligions and I realized the
deep roots of Catholicism,reaching all the way into the
Old Testament, and he said thisisn't going to change, is it,
dad?
This is holding the truth andI'm just walking into it, but I
want to know the truth.
How should I live?
This is what you're talkingabout in your book, I think.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
Rob and in our own journeys right.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Yep exactly.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Yeah, we're on a firm foundation, even though things
are swirling all around us andeven in the church.
You know you can't always counton going to your local Catholic
church and hearing.
You know you might hear somewacky things from the pulpit,
but that's why it's important toeducate yourself to read the
catechism, to read thescriptures, to pray and find
people who are on the samejourney as well, because that's
(32:05):
how we kind of learn to discern,through grace Is this right in
line?
I mean, we can put our firmrock on Christ and on his church
, but sometimes the ministersleave a little bit to be desired
.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
Sometimes yeah, rob, as we start to wind down a
little bit, let's talk about theoratory, because I think that's
important, because that'sreally what we talk about with
this claim, or Miletus Christi,this apostle that we have for
young men, and we tell them gettogether, right, First, find one
or two that you can disciple.
We have a whole outline that'svery easy to follow.
(32:44):
And Claymore, miletus Christi.
If you get a chance, rob, takea look at it, because share it
with young guys too, because itgoes along with a book like
yours, because this gives youthat structure we were talking
about, but it does it in aninformal way.
It's not like you got to followA, b, c, d, e, right, it hits
everything that we need to knowand think about, but it's not
(33:05):
going to tell you exactly whatto do every moment.
Right, that's part of ourdiscipleship journey.
But that oratory always soundsinteresting to me because we're
bringing people together andwe're sharing these stories.
Because our earlier point, thiscan be very frustrating
sometimes to someone that'strying to help change the world,
(33:26):
huh, and we realize we can'talways do that.
I know with the John Paul IIRenewal Center, I would have
quit a long time ago without myfriends, my buddies, the people
that supported us and said, no,no, no, jack, this is good work.
You know we need this in ourfamilies.
You're helping me, you'rehelping this and you realize,
okay, well, there's a little bitwe're doing and we start to
share our stories, rob, justlike your story.
(33:46):
When I read your story, I go,yes, I want to know Rob, I want
to know his journey, I want toknow Philip Neary, I want to
know these people because, youknow, we're all sharing our
stories and saying this is real,this is powerful and I love it.
How else do you want to liveafter all that?
Huh?
Speaker 2 (34:04):
Exactly, and we can't look like the priests also,
because the priests are, youknow, no priest no church.
So the oratories provide a placewhere priests can live in
community as well.
So that is an advantage, becausea lot of parish priests,
unfortunately, are isolated,they're on their own, they're
overworked, they need communityas much as us lay people do even
(34:25):
more so sometimes.
So the oratories that are inexistence still in existence
today, and even when you go tolike a Newman Center on campus,
if you're a new college studentand you go to Newman Center
named after Carl Newman, thatprovides a safe haven and a
place where students of the samefaith can get together and you
(34:47):
know whether it's a Saturdaynight and everybody's out
drinking, but instead you're atthe Newman Center.
We used to have something atPenn State called Saturday Night
, Alive in Christ, where we prayand have adoration and things
like that.
So it's a more healthy outlet.
But, yeah, the oratories arejust.
They're not like I said, it'snot a monastic order, it's not
like the Jesuits or theBenedictines, but it allows that
(35:10):
opportunity to be in communitywith one another and that's
really important to living outyour vocation as a Catholic,
whether as a lay person or as apriest.
And they're in existence allover the world.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
So the oratories that are around say, in the United
States, are they mostly made upof priests or is it, like you
say, a combination?
In other words, if I want tojoin something like that, or at
least look into it, do I do itas a lay person, or am I doing
it as a priest, or are theyseparate?
Speaker 2 (35:39):
Yeah, John, I mean I'll plead the fifth on that,
because I'm not really sure, Ithink they were established for.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
You know why, rob?
Because what you said I findall the time, part of what I do
is go out and meet with priestsin their parishes.
So many of these priests arestretched way, way, way too thin
and they're living bythemselves in a rectory made for
three or four priests coveringtwo or three parishes.
And these people they need,they need to build community,
(36:09):
and I always suggest to them, Isaid, can you, you know, take
two or three of your priestsfrom that are covering a fairly
wide geography and live in onerectory.
You know, like just this is ourhome.
We may not be here every night,because you know I might have
to be.
I have a parish 20 miles awayand I got to get up early, I get
it, but at least a place calledhome where Jack and Rob and
(36:34):
this priest and that priest cancome together and, you know,
make dinner together, talktogether.
So it's so important, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (36:42):
Yeah, I think that's healthy too.
It's just healthy community.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
Yes it is.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
I don't presume to tell priests how to live their
lives or how to structure theircommunity, but I think it does
offer some benefits.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
Well, what's the last word on Philip Neary?
And also, where can we buy thebook, and do you have any
particular website that they cango to if they want to, maybe
where you have this journeyalready?
Speaker 2 (37:09):
linked up.
Where can we go for all?
Speaker 1 (37:11):
that Rob.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
If you Google my name , Rob Marco, all my articles
will come up.
I think the Journey Homeepisode will come up.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
Is it?
Speaker 2 (37:20):
robmarcocom.
No, it's just Google, rob Marco.
The book can be purchased onAmazon or on Scepter Press's
website.
It's co-hosted by Philip Neary,lessons in Joy by Scepter
Publishers and you can readreviews.
It's gotten a lot of goodfeedback lately from people who
are saying it's accessible, it'snot super long and you can pick
(37:41):
it up and chip away at it.
But it's not.
It's very accessible, it's veryeasy to read, but it's very.
It has a lot of meat in in inbetween the pages.
So that's available onScepter's website or on Amazon.
And then my my first book was acollection of essays, is about
400 pages.
That's on Amazon as well.
(38:02):
It's called Wisdom and FollyEssays on Faith, life and
Everything in Between, andthat's a collection of all the
essays I've written over thepast 10 years on manhood, on
marriage, on the church, onfaith, on prayer, on everything
you can think of related to aCatholic life.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
Beautiful.
Well, I'll get those show linksin there.
Hey, thank you so much, rob.
Really appreciate your time,and thanks everybody.
Thanks for joining us today.
We'll talk to you again soon.
Bye-bye, thanks, chuck.
Welcome to the Become who you Are podcast, a
production of the John Paul IIRenewal Center.
I'm Jack Riggert, your host.
You know, one of the perks ofmy job is meeting wonderful,
interesting people from allwalks of life, and not only do
we get a chance to hear theirjourney and their story, but
also learn about the saints whomade an impact on their lives.
Rob Markle is one of thosepeople, and St Philip Neary is
(00:35):
one of those saints.
Rob is a married father ofthree, holds an MA in theology
from Villanova University andhas appeared on EWTN's the
Journey Home, and his writinghas been featured at Crisis
Magazine, 1 Peter 5, CatholicWorld Report and other Catholic
publications.
He's the author of Wisdom andFolly, collected essays on faith
(00:56):
, life and everything in between, and his latest book, Coached
by Philip Neary.
Rob, great to be with you.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Hey, thanks, great to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
So tell us a little bit about that journey.
Now, just tell people I wasexpecting a beard from you,
because I've got a buddy, kevinWells, who wrote actually the
foreword to your book.
He's a wonderful guy too, isn'the?
Rob?
He sure is yep, and so I wasexpecting it, but you just
shaved it off and you did it.
You did it just a couple weeksago, huh you know what it's like
(01:29):
.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
It's like those buddhists that do the uh sand
mandalas.
They spend months on this thingand then they just blow it away
to show impermanence, you knowwhat?
Speaker 1 (01:37):
what is your, your, your married father or three?
What does your wife think whenyou're growing a long beard like
that?
Speaker 2 (01:43):
she likes a beard because she's five years older
than me, so she gets a littleself-conscious about me looking
too young so now that it's, okaytakes about 10 years off my
life.
So yes, it does I look a lotyounger but that's okay.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
I'm the the oldest of five boys, robin and uh and the
other guys have beards, uh, and, and you're right and and
they're all silver now.
You know our beards right there.
They lost some of the color weused to have in them and in it,
and when they do shave they dolook younger, there's no doubt
about it, yeah, so tell us alittle bit about that.
I, and again, I'm gonna.
(02:17):
I think I'll link that journeyhome um article that used that.
Uh, I have that link.
It's really good.
We won't be able to do thewhole thing In fact, we could do
a whole show just on that butlet's hit a couple of highlights
on that journey home.
Tell us a little bit about thatand yourself.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Yeah, that was great.
I was on the journey home in2018, I think right before
Marcus Grodi had retired.
I talk about my conversionstory as like a funnel.
You know, like I was raised ina secular, mixed faith
environment where my father wasCatholic and my mother was
(02:55):
Episcopalian, but neither ofthem really practiced the faith
and I grew up not knowinganything about Jesus Christ or,
you know, I just knew there wasa God, but that was about all I
knew.
And then I had some powerfulconversion experiences in my
teens and it was kind of earlyon where I realized there was a
(03:15):
God.
I went, I was like involved inlike these underground hardcore
shows that you know like kind oflike rock concerts, but they
were really fast and kind ofmosh pits and things like this,
and this was one was in aChristian church, which is
surprising because these areusually the punk rockers,
they're not really likereligious.
But the pastor of that churchgot up and prayed over everyone
(03:38):
before you know, the show wasending and I felt the Holy
Spirit.
Like you know, it was aProtestant pastor, but I still
he sent the Holy Spirit.
I felt like a rush of wind cutthrough me and I was convicted
of my sin.
So I went from going to likebelieving in not believing in
God to believing in God torealizing I was a sinner.
Then I was on a three-day solobackpacking trip where I was
(04:02):
like 16 or 17.
I had my father drop me off upnear north of Scranton, PA, and
just pick me up three days laterand during that time I ran out
of food, I didn't have enoughclothing, I lost my map and I
prayed for the first time duringthat time that the Lord would
help me and even though I didn'tknow who the Lord was so kind
(04:23):
of like the Israelites cryingout in the desert for a God they
didn't know.
And I found my map miraculously.
I had to retrace my steps forabout half a mile and I found a
hand on the back of my.
It was strange because I founda hand on the back of my back
leading me into the bush, andthen I put my hand out and there
was my map.
So I had these kind ofconversion.
And then the rest of becomingcatholic was kind of boring
(04:45):
actually, because I went touniversity and I just found a
catholic mass and I went thereand I asked about learning to
become catholic.
They told me I was too late forrcia, I'd have to wait till
next year.
I didn't want to wait.
I found a byzantine priest,nothing like that.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
You know the protestants bringing you back in
with the spirit, right.
They're not afraid to do that.
Nothing like a good Catholicpastor that's going to blow you
off right, come back in a year.
Yeah, come back in a year,right, it's amazing.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
But I mean, god's grace was really working,
because I wanted to at leastlearn more about what it meant
to be Catholic.
And then I found a Byzantinepriest who gave me one-on-one
catechism once a week, and thenI came into the Byzantine Rite
of the church that December.
So I was 18 years old.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Yeah, and just for our audience that may not be
familiar with it, you know theByzantines are Catholic.
You know there's a wonderfulCatholic pastor here, thomas
Loya, who loves theology of thebody, and you know we talk here
and there and that's a Catholicright.
It's really the more you diginto this not that I want to
(05:50):
berate the point here, but justto clear that up that you come
into the Byzantines and you'reCatholic.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
It's a little different.
We're all one.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Well, thank you for that, and again I'm going to
link that because I think it'sworth reading the whole thing,
it's.
I think what comes out of that,rob, is that you know, and we
can't be afraid and this is whatSt Philip Neri says, you know,
because he was a lay person fora long time you know I didn't
realize it until I read yourbook that he was 36 when he
became a priest, and so we can'tbe afraid to kind of, you know,
(06:28):
lay hands in our own littleways and we'll talk about that
and to bring that spirit thatwe're feeling sometimes into the
public square.
You know, the Holy Spirit wantsto work.
You know, this is a crazy,crazy time.
So what was it about, st PhilipNeri, that touched you enough
that you say because thesesaints and again one more point
(06:50):
for our audience, rob thesesaints will journey with us,
won't they, if we allow them to?
You know, God is.
You know, he said this in thereading today at Mass.
You know, I'm not the God ofthe dead right, I'm the God of
Abraham.
He's speaking to Moses at theburning bush, abraham, jacob and
Isaac, you know, and Jesus saidthe same thing.
(07:12):
He goes no, no, no, you'rewrong.
You don't know the scriptures.
God is God of the living, huh.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
And so that's what these saints do so again.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
you know what got you going there St Philip, neri and
not some other saints.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Well, it's funny because I didn't come to St
Philip Neri probably until afterI was married.
We've been just celebrating our15-year anniversary, but before
that I had discerned religiouslife for about 10 years.
So St Anthony of the Desert wasa favorite saint of mine.
St John the Baptist all theseaesthetics.
Desert was a favorite saint ofmine.
Saint john the baptist allthese aesthetics.
But it wasn't until I met mywife that I realized that having
(07:48):
a sense of humor was really onthe top of my list in terms of
somebody I was looking for in amate like.
I didn't really have a formallist of qualities I was looking
for, but I realized after thefact that the fact that I could
be myself around my wife, um,joke around with her, we can, we
have a good of humor thatreally gets you through a lot of
hard times.
And then realizing that youknow, philip Neary was one of
(08:09):
those unique saints in the factthat we don't hear too much
about saints that are known fortheir humor or their.
You know their sense, theirlevity, you know that they have
a lightheartedness about them.
So we're attracted to.
You know his lack of formality,his informal nature, his love
of humor and using humor for thebenefit of the gospel.
(08:31):
Those are things that attractedme and realized like I kind of
wanted a spiritual grandfatherwho I could identify with.
And Philip Neary, in that sense, was one that I was attracted
to.
So the more I learned about him, the more he became attractive
to me in the sense of this is aguy I can relate to.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
I think and this is such an important point that
you're making here See the swordbehind me, rob.
That's a big Claymore swordmade famous by William Wallace
in the movie Braveheart.
And this is an apostle that wehave for young people, but
especially for young men, and itcomes out of John Paul II's
teaching.
It's a symbol really of justpicking up that sword and going
(09:09):
out and living life full, and Ithink that's what we're talking
about here.
He laughed, he had joy abouthim and the other side, he was
just in love with our Lord andSavior right and with God, and
he lived that life of virtue.
And you made this point in thebook.
I really liked it a lot.
(09:30):
If you're just joy and laughterand joking around without the
virtue, without the God part,you become a jokester or a
prankster, like a class clown.
But when you add virtue,there's this way of joy and
laughter and joking around andstill upholding that virtue.
And that's what he did, didn'the?
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Yeah, it's almost like he earned the right.
I think I said in the book.
He's got the street cred, youknow, because he would spend
long periods of time in solitudeand prayer.
He was known to never havecommitted a mortal sin and so to
use humor.
It's funny because it's kind ofnot really well known that you
(10:12):
know he used humor for himselfas a way of bringing him back
down to earth because he wouldbe carried away in these
ecstasies.
When he became a priest later inlife he had trouble, like you
know not not shaking andconvulsing because well, maybe
we'll talk about the issue withhis heart later but he used this
book of jokes to kind of bringhim back down to earth and he
(10:34):
used humor as a way of relatingto people as well.
But it wasn't in this kind ofbuffoon kind of way, except
towards himself, because heneeded these, towards himself,
because he needed these, heneeded to take himself less
seriously and he needed his bookof jokes, his book of medicine,
to bring him back down to earthafter these ecstasies.
Because it was, it was somewhatembarrassing to him.
It's kind of like Padre Pio,you know, with the stigmata.
(10:54):
It was like he didn't want tobring attention to it.
It was embarrassing and so, buthe was a holy man, so he needed
to.
It was almost like he becameone of us.
You know he needed to.
It was almost like he becameone of us.
You know, he was a man.
He was a mere mortal, you know,but he was also a saint.
He became one of us, kind oflike, because we could relate to
him through humor.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
And the beauty of that and I know from Padre Pio I
love Padre Pio.
I have a band on my wrist thatI've been wearing forever.
You know, pray, hope and don'tworry from Padre Pio.
But he also was known among hisown monks to be a prankster and
I think he did it for the samereason.
You know you have to have somefun, man, and get some laughter
going right, otherwise you knowyou can drive yourself crazy.
(11:42):
Let's talk about it.
You do this wonderful story onSecretariat, on the horse that
won.
That you know was justincredible.
That year won the Triple Crown.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
That was actually Kevin in his foreword.
Kevin did in the foreword yes,because he was a former sports
writer.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Yes, yes, yes, but you make the analogy and this is
where I want you to go, if youdon't mind to talk about.
You know you draw of 29.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
And it's kind of a bizarre scenario where the Holy
Spirit, the love of God, hadcome into his, through his mouth
(12:32):
, down to his heart, as a globalfire, and it actually enlarged
his heart.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
What was he set that up?
A little bit, rob Was hepraying then, he was praying for
?
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Yes, he was praying for the gifts of the Holy Spirit
and he was praying specificallyfor the Holy Spirit to give him
the graces that he was askingfor.
And the response to that wasthat the Lord enlarged his heart
, his physical heart, to twicethe size of his regular heart,
broke a couple of his ribs inthe process and would lead him
(13:08):
the rest of his life to be likehe could be in the middle of
winter and be sweating, you know, or not wearing any coats or
anything, and there would betimes where people close to him
penitents would feel the beatingof his heart like it would
reverberate so strongly.
So it was kind of a physicalmanifestation of a grace that
was just, you know, because wetalk about the sacred heart of
(13:29):
the Lord, the heart is importantto the Lord, our hearts and his
heart.
But in this sense, with PhilipNeri, he took his physical heart
and made it twice as big as itwas.
So I think Kevin used thatstory of the racehorse
Secretariat to draw an analogywhich was kind of cool.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Yeah, because Secretariat also had that double
heart, you know thatdouble-sized heart.
When they found out in anautopsy right Later on, I didn't
realize that either until Kevinwrote that in the book.
But he did a good job, huh,pulling that and allowing your
story with Philip Neri's heartto come out.
Pulling it and allowing yourstory with Philip Neri's heart
(14:09):
to come out, with this hugeheart, he could walk in and to
your point.
And I think this is great forthe laity, great for these young
people.
We always tell them, hey, don'tjust do this by yourself,
disciple one another, and thenmake sure you go and fill
yourself up.
You can't give what you don'thave.
But then when you go outthey'll say you know how should
I do this?
Blah, blah, blah.
And we just say, hey, look atyou know, pray to the Holy
Spirit, you know, read yourscripture, get down on your
(14:32):
knees.
And that's what Philip Nearydid.
He was quasi loose, right, hedidn't have like this, this plan
.
I always think you know one ofthe big things you know if you
want to make God laugh, tell himyour plans.
And at the end of the day Rob,I think that's true Let God put
some plans in front of you andtry to listen and follow them.
(14:53):
And that's really.
I got that sense big time fromSt Philip Neri.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
You know, jack, it's interesting you say that because
that's that's a point that whenthe podcast be who you are, you
know St Philip Neary wasCardinal Newman said anything
that was was systematic pleasedhim not and just part of his
nature.
He was more informal.
He wasn't like you know, he wasa contemporary of St St
(15:22):
Ignatius, but St Ignatius waslike a soldier, he was like boom
, boom, boom and Philip was morelike a friend.
You know he would walk on thestreets and talk with people.
I say he took the organicapproach you know to friendships
, to relationships, to buildingup relationships, to bring
people to the gospel with theultimate goal.
But it didn't have like asystematic plan.
(15:43):
So anything that was like formal, even the formation of the
oratory which we can maybe talkabout later, is it was never, it
was never set up as like amonastic order.
It was a um, a very.
It still has an informalcollection of priests and lay
people who get together and readthe, read the scriptures, sing
(16:04):
hymns.
You know it's pretty simple inthat sense.
So I think that that'simportant to know that Philip,
as his nature you know St Thomastalks about like grace perfects
nature his nature was not of aformal person.
It also wasn't one that wasprepared to go on the missions
as like he originally thought.
And then a Cistercian that hadthe gift of prophecy came to him
(16:26):
and said Rome will be yourIndies.
You have to stay here and dothe work.
So it's kind of a bloom whereyou're planted thing With the
laity.
I think that's important toknow.
That, like however God made youis how you're meant to carry
out your work for the gospel.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
We all have different temperaments and things like
that, and philip neary reallyutilized his own temperament to
the best of his ability ah, andand and, the power again of
joining that joy, that laughteragain linking it, like you said
to to virtue earlier we weretalking about, is we need to do
the same thing.
Whatever talent God gave me,you know.
(17:03):
Whatever that is, you know,don't downplay that.
You know, whatever you know.
Sometimes we think we don'thave enough.
We don't know enough.
You know, I got to study thisfirst and study that first.
But Jesus himself, and so didMoses, brought to me.
They said hey, you know, thisplan isn't like pie in the sky
or you got to go over the sea tograb it.
(17:25):
It's right around you and youhave that in here.
I wrote it down somewhere.
For behold, the kingdom of Godis in the midst of you.
That came from Luke 17.
Don't look elsewhere.
The kingdom of God is in themidst of you.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
And that's the point you were just making.
And God is also looking for areturn on his investment.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
He doesn't want you burying it in a savings account,
not getting interest, you know,yeah, yeah, take it out right,
don't put the light under abushel basket, and I think
that's just so important for allof us.
You know, when your heartstarts to get on fire, you know,
I always think I think it wasJeremiah Rob that I'm pretty
sure he kept trying to get awayand he goes, and he finally said
you duped me, lord, you dupedme right, Whatever talent I have
(18:11):
yeah, you want me to use it,and I think this is so important
because one of the questions Iwanted to ask you is if you
think if St Philip Neri walkedinto our world today, he had
plenty of problems in his world.
I don't know if he would haveany more than we have.
You know, if we look at thisthing holistically, it's a
(18:32):
beating we're taking out there.
A lot of people leave in thechurch, you know.
I think you said for every onethat comes in, there are five
leaving.
So we can't get discouraged,can we?
And we just got to do what wecan do.
You know, god's plan is outthere.
We fit into it somehow anddon't be afraid, right, go out
(18:54):
and do it.
And I think that's what PhilipNeary would kind of tell us.
But what do you think?
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Yeah, and there's a lot of work to do too.
The.
Lord said, you know that theharvest is great but the workers
are few.
And if you're consideringyourself a worker, it can get
lonely sometimes to be out therelaboring in the Lord's vineyard
, and we need brothers to.
And so you know his famousPhilip's famous saying well,
brothers, when will we begin todo?
Good, you know that was.
(19:21):
The whole thing is that itdoesn't have to be perfect, it
doesn't have to be successfulnecessarily, but we have to do
the effort, we have to put thework in, and that work might
look different for each person,but the work takes courage
Sometimes.
It takes effort, it takescourage and it takes the grace
of the Holy Spirit, which theLord is willing to provide, to
(19:44):
do the work.
We just have to kind ofsometimes get out of the way,
sometimes just be amenable toreceiving that grace.
But we have to also, by ourwill, our free will, be saying
yes, lord, send me, I'm here,I'm here, send me.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
What happens is this.
You know, and you talk about itin the book.
There are some saints thatdon't want to be with other
people, right, they want to justlive that monastic life.
But he loved the balance.
He loved the balance just likeour Lord did, right, go out,
meet with the people, be withthe people, but then take time
to pray.
And it was so beautiful inthere.
(20:19):
It reminds me of John Paul'stheology of the body, where he
follows Jesus into the beginning.
And it starts with these threeexperiences, and the first one
is original solitude, and that'swhat Philip Neri would go off,
just like Jesus did, in thatsolitude.
And you said somethingimportant in there.
It said it's not about I'm justparaphrasing, but it's not to
(20:42):
endure solitude or being alone.
It's about learning who you areand who the Lord is.
So then, when I come togetherwith other people, I can receive
this love and then be this lovein the world.
And you made that point so well.
I thought it was beautiful.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Yeah, exactly, and that comes a lot from Thomas the
Compass in the Imitation ofChrist, where he says and
sometimes, when I've gone out inthe company of men, I've come
back less a man, and so we needthat reset.
We see it in the Lord, the Lordgoing off to lonely places to
pray, to recharge.
So Philip was really one ofthose contemplative active
(21:22):
fusions.
You know that like he wasactive in ministry but it wasn't
, you know he knew he needed.
He could be for hours prayingand he would go into ecstasy
sometimes where his limbs wouldturn numb just from praying for
so long.
But he also recognized thatwhen people came to his room he
said Carl Newman said he wouldleave Christ for Christ.
(21:43):
You know he would leave Christfor Christ.
And he said people could chopwood on my back as far as they
want, as long as they don't sin,you know.
So if people would interrupthim, like you know, if he was
praying in his room, he wouldcome right down.
It was like this charity ofhimself that he would give of
himself to other people sounselfishly.
(22:03):
And I think a lot of timesthat's convicting for us,
because we were like I want myquiet time, or, you know, the
kids are coming in and botheringme, or you know I don't want to
do this parish ministry, wecan't get overextended.
But to the extent that we needto be charitable with our own
self and our time, I thinkthat's something a lot of us can
(22:23):
learn from that.
There's a lot we can give thatwe hold back from, you know,
from giving just out ofselfishness.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Yeah, how many parents I just to bring it right
up to speed here, how manyparents that I speak to?
And you know there's reasonsfor that.
They're tired, they're cominghome from work, they're both
working whatever.
But it's so important.
We tell men all the time, rob,it's so important when you walk
in that door that is not thetime to be selfish.
(22:50):
I mean, you know you're goingto have to find a time later on
to do it, but if those kids runup to you and they want to see
you, your wife actually comesthe door and says hello.
Right, in a lot of cases it'snot because she's tired and
you're home Now she wants todisappear.
Right, if she's been home for awhile.
And we understand all this.
But at the end of the day, ifyou can just give that boom,
give back and just remember hey,this is not about me.
(23:12):
You've got to dig deep, rob,for some of that.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
But that makes a big impact.
It's also a noble vocation too,because Philip Neary, he wasn't
married, I mean, for most ofhis life he was a layman, then
he became a priest.
For us married men, ourvocations are different, but the
domestic church is our home andwe build up from the ground up.
(23:36):
We build strong familiesthrough good fathership and
mothership.
And then we, you know, we buildup these families and then
those become witnesses in thepublic realm of why does this
family do what they do?
Why do they go to church onSundays?
Why do they pray before theirmeals?
You know.
So we serve as that witness.
But we need strong families.
St John Chrysostom talks aboutthat.
When everything is in order,you know, and the children are
(23:58):
raised well, everything takesoff from there.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Yeah, and this is where you're really seeing the
cultural breakdown, and I thinkthis is what's making it worse
than probably any other time inhistory.
Wars were always there,families were divided up, all
kinds of things happen all thetime.
But here we're just doing itpurposely.
You know, we we 43% of everychild born in the United States
(24:26):
today is born out of wedlock.
You just can't make this stuffup right.
In certain big cities like NewYork and I'm here in Chicago,
outside of Chicago, we'reaborting as many children that
are being born and you just go,whoa man.
And then we, you know, we losteven the meaning of marriage
itself.
What is marriage?
It could be anything,everything.
(24:46):
And these poor kids, we meetRob in high schools and stuff,
we do high school retreats andthings, and they are confused
brother.
So, yeah, when you can setthose kind of examples in your
own little way, it's animportant thing to do.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Yeah, I think the thing about Philip Neary was
that he was a light.
He was a I think CardinalNewman talks about it like a
magnet to iron filaments Likepeople were drawn to him because
of his joy and his personality.
We can be that light as well,whether it's as a father to kids
who don't have fathers, as amother to mother people who are,
(25:25):
you know, young girls, or evenjust as a family unit to be a
witness to those who don't havethat, don't even have any basis
for what a healthy family lookslike, or a Christian family, you
know.
So we can be that, and then wehave these saints.
Philip Neary is just one ofthem, but for me, he was a great
example of ones that you can be.
You can draw people to yourself, not through a harsh
(25:53):
personality, but somebody whodraws people in just because
they like being around them.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
I love that.
When I was a young guy I waskind of a quasi-hippie of sorts
and, like you in your journeyhome, I was into the Buddha and
I was into Eastern.
I mean, we're searching right,and this is what I think we're
missing today too, because whenwe don't go into silence, rob,
(26:17):
you said about the heart theheart is the core.
That's why we talk aboutJesus's heart and our hearts so
much, because you know thecatechism starts out, you know,
right in the beginning, sectionone, chapter one, paragraph one,
with the heart.
And the heart means the core ofwho we are, kind of body, soul,
conscience, everything, thecore of who we are.
(26:38):
That heart stops beatingphysically, but also the soul,
right, the heart of the soulstops.
So we get that in silence.
Huh, we get that.
It's so important for usbecause we're not.
We're kind of living gettingblown around by the spirit of
the age.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
I was going to say I make an analogy a lot that I
don't know where I came up withit, but like the church and the
religion are.
You know, people get down onorganized religion, but I like
to think of the church andreligion as the skeleton that
keeps all the organs protected.
It holds up the body, it givesus form, it gives us something
you know, enables us to walkaround.
(27:14):
If we were just heart and justskin and organs, we'd be a blob
on the floor, you know.
So the church is just asimportant, and you know Philip
was.
You know he would always bringpeople back to the sacraments,
to the mass, to the scriptures,to hymns and to each other.
But all of that encompasses thebody of the church and that,
you know, for better or worse,it's an organized religion.
(27:36):
I think it's for better, but alot of people see it as
something that's, um, they don'tneed.
But I think they're sufferingbecause of that, because they
don't have any purpose, theydon't have any structure or
self-discipline or form, or evensomebody telling them you
shouldn't do that or you shoulddo that.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
There's a reason why we don't do this you know, yeah,
and I think that that came outin in your uh, you know in in
your story Again, we got theBuddha, we got Confucius, we got
all these different things.
But at the end, if you sit insilence and this is my earlier
point that I probably didn'tfinish If you sit in silence,
you start to understand, youseek the truth.
(28:11):
I think, especially as youngmen the young men that we know,
I was like that, you were likethat in your story right, we're
seeking the truth.
And now we don't seek the truth.
You know, we're just gettingblown around in this world of
moral relativism.
And that's what the church givesus to your point.
It gives us the structure.
Here's the Ten Commandments,you know, here's these teachings
(28:31):
, etc.
Etc.
It keeps you on these guiderails so that when you're
searching for the truth, you'renot making a disaster out of
your whole life.
You know and you don't havethat in other even you know
Protestant denominations.
You know that I can go down thestreet and hear a pastor say
something totally different.
(28:52):
Now I can hear a priest do thattoo in a Catholic church, but I
know what he's saying is notthe truth.
And we know that we have thisbeauty, don't we Rob, of it just
being passed down, and thesesaints lived this out in
different ways.
It's amazing.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Yeah, the four marks of the church was really a big
part of my conversion.
It's one, so it's one, whetheryou're in Mozambique or Russia
or United States.
Holy, you know.
The church itself is holy, eventhough the members aren't
always apostolic.
One holy Catholic.
So it's universal and apostolic, which means it's passed down
(29:27):
from the apostles.
That's really important.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
It's so important.
We tried to goof up our kids asmuch as we could.
When we were younger, I marrieda non-practicing Methodist and
I was a non-practicing catholic.
When we got married kind oflike your in a sense your
parents, you know where you saidthey didn't really have that
strong.
I think your father had astronger faith.
Right at least was going tochurch.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
Yeah, I mean my mother and yeah, I mean they
would go to church here andthere.
But he had a catholicbackground, but he had a very.
He didn't have much of acatechesis, um, so he didn't
really know much about the faith.
It was just so a lot of mycatechism later in life was
teaching my father things aboutthe faith, um, and hoping to
bring him back confession andmass and everything like that.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
So my uh, our oldest daughter was baptized Catholic,
and then the next two werebaptized Methodist, and and and
so, anyways, my son graduatesfrom college and he came home to
live for a little while, and mybuddies from the local Catholic
church.
I was going to said, hey,congratulations on your son,
jake.
And I said he's a smart kid.
(30:33):
What do you think he was goingto get out of college?
He goes no, no, no, he's anRCIA.
And he was going to surprise me.
He didn't know.
I knew everybody and I asked him.
I said Jake, how come you knowhe was just out of college.
I said how come you decided todo that?
And he said Dad, you rememberwe used to sit there and you
told me this story one time.
(30:55):
He said you're an old mansitting on a rocking chair and
you were starting to get it, butthen you look back and you saw
how much damage you did to otherpeople because you had no
guideline, no rules, no, nothingto live by.
And he said I didn't want thenext new wave religion.
I had enough of that already incollege.
And he said I wanted somethingwith deep roots.
(31:17):
And I started to study differentreligions and I realized the
deep roots of Catholicism,reaching all the way into the
Old Testament, and he said thisisn't going to change, is it,
dad?
This is holding the truth andI'm just walking into it, but I
want to know the truth.
How should I live?
This is what you're talkingabout in your book, I think.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
Rob and in our own journeys right.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Yep exactly.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Yeah, we're on a firm foundation, even though things
are swirling all around us andeven in the church.
You know you can't always counton going to your local Catholic
church and hearing.
You know you might hear somewacky things from the pulpit,
but that's why it's important toeducate yourself to read the
catechism, to read thescriptures, to pray and find
people who are on the samejourney as well, because that's
(32:05):
how we kind of learn to discern,through grace Is this right in
line?
I mean, we can put our firmrock on Christ and on his church
, but sometimes the ministersleave a little bit to be desired
.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
Sometimes yeah, rob, as we start to wind down a
little bit, let's talk about theoratory, because I think that's
important, because that'sreally what we talk about with
this claim, or Miletus Christi,this apostle that we have for
young men, and we tell them gettogether, right, First, find one
or two that you can disciple.
We have a whole outline that'svery easy to follow.
(32:44):
And Claymore, miletus Christi.
If you get a chance, rob, takea look at it, because share it
with young guys too, because itgoes along with a book like
yours, because this gives youthat structure we were talking
about, but it does it in aninformal way.
It's not like you got to followA, b, c, d, e, right, it hits
everything that we need to knowand think about, but it's not
(33:05):
going to tell you exactly whatto do every moment.
Right, that's part of ourdiscipleship journey.
But that oratory always soundsinteresting to me because we're
bringing people together andwe're sharing these stories.
Because our earlier point, thiscan be very frustrating
sometimes to someone that'strying to help change the world,
(33:26):
huh, and we realize we can'talways do that.
I know with the John Paul IIRenewal Center, I would have
quit a long time ago without myfriends, my buddies, the people
that supported us and said, no,no, no, jack, this is good work.
You know we need this in ourfamilies.
You're helping me, you'rehelping this and you realize,
okay, well, there's a little bitwe're doing and we start to
share our stories, rob, justlike your story.
(33:46):
When I read your story, I go,yes, I want to know Rob, I want
to know his journey, I want toknow Philip Neary, I want to
know these people because, youknow, we're all sharing our
stories and saying this is real,this is powerful and I love it.
How else do you want to liveafter all that?
Huh?
Speaker 2 (34:04):
Exactly, and we can't look like the priests also,
because the priests are, youknow, no priest no church.
So the oratories provide a placewhere priests can live in
community as well.
So that is an advantage, becausea lot of parish priests,
unfortunately, are isolated,they're on their own, they're
overworked, they need communityas much as us lay people do even
(34:25):
more so sometimes.
So the oratories that are inexistence still in existence
today, and even when you go tolike a Newman Center on campus,
if you're a new college studentand you go to Newman Center
named after Carl Newman, thatprovides a safe haven and a
place where students of the samefaith can get together and you
(34:47):
know whether it's a Saturdaynight and everybody's out
drinking, but instead you're atthe Newman Center.
We used to have something atPenn State called Saturday Night
, Alive in Christ, where we prayand have adoration and things
like that.
So it's a more healthy outlet.
But, yeah, the oratories arejust.
They're not like I said, it'snot a monastic order, it's not
like the Jesuits or theBenedictines, but it allows that
(35:10):
opportunity to be in communitywith one another and that's
really important to living outyour vocation as a Catholic,
whether as a lay person or as apriest.
And they're in existence allover the world.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
So the oratories that are around say, in the United
States, are they mostly made upof priests or is it, like you
say, a combination?
In other words, if I want tojoin something like that, or at
least look into it, do I do itas a lay person, or am I doing
it as a priest, or are theyseparate?
Speaker 2 (35:39):
Yeah, John, I mean I'll plead the fifth on that,
because I'm not really sure, Ithink they were established for.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
You know why, rob?
Because what you said I findall the time, part of what I do
is go out and meet with priestsin their parishes.
So many of these priests arestretched way, way, way too thin
and they're living bythemselves in a rectory made for
three or four priests coveringtwo or three parishes.
And these people they need,they need to build community,
(36:09):
and I always suggest to them, Isaid, can you, you know, take
two or three of your priestsfrom that are covering a fairly
wide geography and live in onerectory.
You know, like just this is ourhome.
We may not be here every night,because you know I might have
to be.
I have a parish 20 miles awayand I got to get up early, I get
it, but at least a place calledhome where Jack and Rob and
(36:34):
this priest and that priest cancome together and, you know,
make dinner together, talktogether.
So it's so important, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (36:42):
Yeah, I think that's healthy too.
It's just healthy community.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
Yes it is.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
I don't presume to tell priests how to live their
lives or how to structure theircommunity, but I think it does
offer some benefits.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
Well, what's the last word on Philip Neary?
And also, where can we buy thebook, and do you have any
particular website that they cango to if they want to, maybe
where you have this journeyalready?
Speaker 2 (37:09):
linked up.
Where can we go for all?
Speaker 1 (37:11):
that Rob.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
If you Google my name , Rob Marco, all my articles
will come up.
I think the Journey Homeepisode will come up.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
Is it?
Speaker 2 (37:20):
robmarcocom.
No, it's just Google, rob Marco.
The book can be purchased onAmazon or on Scepter Press's
website.
It's co-hosted by Philip Neary,lessons in Joy by Scepter
Publishers and you can readreviews.
It's gotten a lot of goodfeedback lately from people who
are saying it's accessible, it'snot super long and you can pick
(37:41):
it up and chip away at it.
But it's not.
It's very accessible, it's veryeasy to read, but it's very.
It has a lot of meat in in inbetween the pages.
So that's available onScepter's website or on Amazon.
And then my my first book was acollection of essays, is about
400 pages.
That's on Amazon as well.
(38:02):
It's called Wisdom and FollyEssays on Faith, life and
Everything in Between, andthat's a collection of all the
essays I've written over thepast 10 years on manhood, on
marriage, on the church, onfaith, on prayer, on everything
you can think of related to aCatholic life.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
Beautiful.
Well, I'll get those show linksin there.
Hey, thank you so much, rob.
Really appreciate your time,and thanks everybody.
Thanks for joining us today.
We'll talk to you again soon.
Bye-bye, thanks, chuck.
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.