May 28, 2025 • 29 mins
This podcast episode elucidates the remarkable life of Marian Anderson, a pivotal figure in American history renowned for her contributions to both music and civil rights. We delve into her profound impact on society, particularly her courageous performance on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial in 1939, which signified a monumental moment in the struggle against racial segregation. Our guest shares insights from his extensive research, revealing Anderson's dual legacy as an acclaimed artist and a trailblazing humanitarian. He emphasizes her unwavering faith and humility, qualities that shaped her character and fueled her philanthropic endeavors. Through this discussion, we aim to illuminate Anderson's enduring influence and the vital lessons her life imparts to contemporary society.
The dialogue unfolds with an amiable exchange between two speakers, who traverse the realms of personal reflection and historical significance. The podcast commences with a cordial greeting, which sets a congenial tone for the ensuing discussion. A notable theme emerges as the speakers delve into the life and legacy of Marian Anderson, an iconic figure whose contributions to the civil rights movement and the arts have largely been overlooked. The conversation highlights the profound impact of Anderson's groundbreaking concert at the Lincoln Memorial, an event that symbolized a pivotal moment in American history, transcending racial barriers and paving the way for future civil rights advancements. As the speakers reflect on the weight of Anderson's achievements, they articulate the necessity of recognizing her role as a trailblazer and a source of inspiration for generations to come. The dialogue is enriched by personal anecdotes and reflections on mentorship, underscoring the importance of guidance in shaping one's journey and aspirations. The speakers articulate their admiration for Anderson's character, illuminating her humility and dedication to philanthropy, which further cements her legacy as a remarkable individual who used her voice for the greater good. Overall, the podcast serves as a heartfelt tribute to Marian Anderson, encouraging listeners to engage with her story and recognize her enduring influence on American culture and society.
Takeaways:
- The podcast discusses the remarkable legacy of Marian Anderson, a significant figure in American history.
- Emil shares his personal journey and the influential mentors who guided him throughout his life.
- The conversation emphasizes the importance of setting achievable goals and the value of perseverance.
- Listeners are encouraged to explore the life and accomplishments of Marian Anderson through Emil's new biography.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:58):
Well, Emil, welcome to thepodcast, my friend.
How you doing today?
I'm doing just fine.
How are you doing out there?
I am awesome here in Iowa.
I can't complain about one thing.
Well, I'm in the City ofBrotherly Love, and we just won the
super bowl, as you know, andthe city is still trying to recover
(01:19):
from it, so I can complainabout a lot.
Of things, I'm sure.
Is that the place that threwsnowballs at Santa?
I think that was the.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
I think that was our formermayor and governor Ed Rendell that
did that during the game.
That was a long time ago.
You know, we all have ourpluses and minuses of our little
(01:41):
states, don't we?
Yep.
So I'm glad you're on the podcast.
I love to talk about thistopic and kind of reliving the history
of so many important people.
But before we get started withit, I want to ask you my favorite
question.
Yeah.
What's the best piece ofadvice you ever received?
Well, my best piece of advicethat I ever received was to learn
(02:05):
how to set goals that arereasonable and always to pray and
never give up on your goals.
That's the best piece ofadvice I can ever remember.
That's good.
I like that.
Who told you that?
I think it was my father.
My dad who was one of my heroes.
(02:29):
That's amazing.
Our parents have so muchwisdom to offer us, don't they?
Yep, they sure do.
I'm curious.
At our advanced age, we alwayscan look back at people who have,
you know, been important for us.
Who are some people in yourlife who served as a mentor for you?
Well, as I mentioned, my dadwas a tremendous mentor for me.
(02:52):
My grandparents, his parents,and my dad's friend, Jack Kelly,
who happened to be the olderbrother of Princess Grace Kelly from
Monaco.
Wow.
Remember her, don't you?
I do.
I hope.
And a host of other men fromBoathouse Row in Philadelphia, where
(03:13):
I spent most of my formativeyears in my teens and early twenties.
Yeah, they really were.
They served as tremendousmentors to me.
That's so cool.
So I'm curious about your journey.
So tell us about your journey,your personal story.
Well, I'm the oldest of ninekids from a strict Roman Catholic
(03:37):
family in Philadelphia, whichis a very Catholic city.
Dad started me as a 13 yearold in his sport of rowing, which
led to a lot of successes.
I was able to win a bunch ofnational championships.
I rode with Olympic championsall the time.
(03:58):
I received multiplescholarship offers from colleges
and universities.
And after college I became aNavy pilot, got a commercial pilot's
license after that, and becamea serial entrepreneur.
I won't get into all the gorydetails of my business life, but
(04:22):
it was very exciting and successful.
And while a Navy pilot, I hada near death flying experience, which
I realize now that God wasn'tready to take me away.
For some unknown reason, hewasn't done with me yet at that time.
So here I am today.
Wow, Emil, that's an.
(04:43):
That's an amazing story.
So I see that you are Emil J.
Henry iii.
Tell us about the other two.
Yeah, well, usually I go by mymiddle name, J, which stands for
Joseph, because for a lot ofmy life my grandfather Emil Senior
and my father Emil Jr.
Were alive.
(05:04):
And I go by Joe because mostof the doofuses that I used to hang
out with didn't know how topronounce Emile and they would just
call me Emily.
And then I used to be likeJohnny Cash, the boy named Sue.
Getting into a lot of fights,it made me pretty tough.
But I'm using a meal as my penname now because it sounds a lot
(05:26):
better than just Joe Henwood.
That's good.
I love that.
So you, you wrote a book aboutMarian Anderson.
And I did a little researchmyself because I honestly didn't
recall most of her life, butkind of give us a brief overview
of who Marian Anderson was andwhy she's so important figure in
American history.
(05:47):
Well, Reverend Keith, if youdon't remember or didn't know much
about her, you are in thesolid majority because there's not
a lot of people around todayleft today who remember much about
her.
I stumbled across her.
I was very fortunate.
Marian Anderson is one of themost underappreciated heroes of our
(06:09):
American history.
She was the only one who, ifyou only want to find out a lot about
her, just Google her and thenlook at her Wikipedia page and check
out the links.
It will blow you away.
It really will.
(06:30):
Then you have to set aside alot of time to do that because her
Wikipedia page is long.
Yeah, there's a lot more therethan I could ever cover here with
the delimited time we're goingto have.
Essentially in 1939, she brokethrough all the Jim Crow laws, segregation
(06:53):
laws that separated the whitesfrom the blacks for a long time.
And she brought.
This was in the nation'scapital where these Jim Crow laws
were very strong.
Washington was a very southerntype segregated city back then.
It still is a little bittoday, actually.
I lived there for three yearsand I Know it.
(07:16):
She broke through thesebarriers when she sang her concert
on the steps of the LincolnMemorial because she was not allowed
to sing in the largest indoorvenue, which was Constitutional hall,
because it was owned by theDaughters of the American Revolution
and they had a whites onlyperformers policy there and it couldn't
(07:39):
be broken.
They tried for two years tobreak it and they couldn't.
So finally, Eleanor Rooseveltstepped in, who was a good friend
of Marion's from 1936, and gother and her husband got her on the
steps of the Lincoln Memorialon the National Mall.
So then that really marked thevery beginning of the modern civil
(08:04):
rights era.
And that was 24 years beforeMartin Luther King's March on Washington
with his I have a dream speechand 25 years before Lyndon Johnson's
Great Society, where he issueda lot of help desegregating the country.
(08:27):
Anyway, her majoraccomplishments were breakthroughs
in gender and racial barriers.
And she was awarded theCongressional Medal of Honor and
the Presidential Medal ofFreedom, which proves it.
She was the full package.
(08:47):
She was the full package.
If I'm not mistaken, thatconcert that she did on the Lincoln
Memorial, if I remember thenumbers I saw, there were like 70,000
people who attended that heardher single.
Well, thank God for theprejudice of the Daughters of the
American Revolution, becauseif she had sung in their Constitution
hall, which only seated 4,500,she would not have had the opportunity
(09:12):
to go onto the National Malland sing in front of over 75,000
people live, which wasbroadcast live throughout the nation
to millions.
And that had a lot of ramifications.
Also, and if I'm not mistakenalso, I think I did my research that
she was the first AfricanAmerican to sing at the inauguration.
(09:32):
Sing the national Anthem at Kennedys.
Right inauguration.
Well, I don't know if she wasthe first African American.
She probably was, but she wasdefinitely the first person, whether
white or black, to sing at twoinaugurations for a Republican and
a Democrat.
Doesn't that say a lot about her?
(09:53):
She sang in 57 forEisenhower's second term and in 61
for John F.
Kennedy's first term.
Yeah, they knew who she wasback then, even if they forgot now.
You know, as you wrote thisbook, what were some never before
characteristics of her thatyou discovered that you included
(10:14):
in your book?
Well, the never before knowncharacteristics, I would say the
fact that 1954 she wrote, whenshe was a worldwide celebrity known
throughout the world, that itwas her faith that made her voice,
(10:37):
her faith in God that made hervoice without her faith, she would
never have been able to do it.
She said, wow.
She was a, like I mentionedthe full package.
She really a very dedicated,holy Christian woman who was very
humble and private.
(10:57):
And she never, never, everexposed her private life or her family
to the media, which is one ofthe reasons why a lot of people don't
remember her, because shenever even had a publicity agent.
She was an A list celebrityworldwide and she.
(11:17):
Publicity agent.
Can you imagine that?
Well, not today.
No, no, no, not today at all.
Can you share a story,anecdote from the book that highlights
some of her generosity?
Because the season also had ahistory of generosity as well.
Well, in the late 30s, early40s, when we were still in the throes
(11:41):
of the Great Depression, in1938, she was earning $238,000 a
year.
Okay.
And in 1939, after her, herhistoric concert, which made her
an international starovernight, she was earning on average
(12:02):
$4 million a year.
That's pretty serious moneyeven today.
So she took the first awardthat she received was from the Philadelphia
city, and she won $10,000 asPhiladelphia's most outstanding citizen.
(12:27):
She banked that for a coupleof years and then started up a program
for young artists, especiallyAfrican American artists who wanted
to make their mark.
And she set up the MarianAnderson Scholarship foundation.
And that ran for 40 years.
(12:50):
40 years after that, she keptfunding it and funding and funding
it.
After the original $10,000,what was the rest of your question?
Oh, just an example of herhumility and her generosity.
I appreciate that.
Oh, well, her humility wasover the top again because she was
(13:11):
such a dedicated Christian andshe was a big believer, of course,
in God's word, the Bible, andwhere it says in Matthew, I think,
six, three, don't let the lefthand know what your right hand is
doing.
She gave all the money away,as much as she possibly could, anonymously
(13:31):
and quietly.
All right, so she, she was areal force to be reckoned with.
And that's one of the otherreasons people don't remember her,
that she, she, she funded somany things.
One of the biggest things shedid was she funded the building of
the, the Children's Hospitalhere in Philadelphia, which is a
(13:56):
worldwide nonprofit hospitalwhich brings in children from all
over the world and treats themfor very rare, hard to cure diseases
free of charge.
And it's been doing that veryeffectively ever since.
In Philadelphia, she alsofunded the place called.
(14:20):
It's the PhiladelphiaOrchestra's summertime concert venue.
It's called the Man Music Center.
Prior to the tune of two and ahalf million as well as she funded
the hospital.
Two and a half million.
She wrote these checks out ofher personal checking account.
(14:43):
Keith, can you believe that?
Quietly.
She did it very quietly and privately.
And when she.
In 1977, she began at the ageof 80, actually she began donating
(15:05):
her papers and all hermemorabilia and a tremendous number
of over 4,600 photographs thatshe took.
She was a shutterbug.
Everywhere she went in theworld she took pictures, brought
them home to her home inPhiladelphia and later on in Connecticut,
had her own dark room anddeveloped them and then just threw
(15:28):
them in a box unlabeled.
And University of Pennsylvaniastarted receiving all that memorabilia
in 1977.
Between 77 and 1991 theyreceived over 495 boxes of her stuff.
(15:48):
And now the University ofPennsylvania, which is a very prestigious
Ivy League college, as youknow, has in their library, their
main library, which isenormous, they have a Marian Anderson
Collections Center.
I happen to have the luck ofwriting my book starting in 2019,
(16:14):
just when Penn received a biggrant to start digitizing everything
that was in those 495 boxesand put it online.
So I was able to do it righthere where I'm sitting right now
from my kitchen table withouteven going to the library.
Right.
So her life is impressive.
(16:36):
I'm curious what inspired youto write her biography?
I think it was the Lord's handat work.
Because When I was 9, 10, 11years old, being the oldest of nine
kids, I used to go and visitmy grandparents home, which was in
(17:00):
the same neighborhood and theywere continuously playing Marian
Anderson records, which Ididn't particularly like at that
age.
I would rather listen to rockand roll.
You know, it was big that backthen, back in the late 50s, so.
But I listened and years, 60some years went by.
(17:23):
By the way, I'm going to be 79in July, so forgive me if I stumble
every once in a while.
My memory is not what it usedto be.
But no one's, no one's is atthis point.
You're just a kid compared to me.
You know it.
So anyway, time goes by 60, 65 years.
(17:45):
And the Marian Anderson Awardswas going to be happening at a big,
the big Kimmel center, whichis where the Philadelphia Orchestra
is headquartered inPhiladelphia, downtown Philadelphia.
I decided I was going to go to it.
And before I went, I got onthe Internet, being a researcher.
(18:06):
I started looking her up and Ifound so much about her.
I said this can't be true.
It's got to Be urban legend.
No one person could have doneall this stuff.
So I was concerned because afriend of mine had asked me, who
was a philanthropist, asked meto put together a pamphlet so he
(18:29):
could circulate it among hisphilanthropic friends to raise money
for the.
The Marian Anderson Museum,which is here in Philadelphia.
And as I was putting ittogether, I said, I can't publish
this unless I really know it's true.
So I called up my brother, whohad just retired as the chief homicide
detective in Philadelphia.
(18:51):
He was a cop.
And I said, jim, how do youinvestigate somebody and know that
what you're finding is true?
And he said, well, before wetake anybody into court on a murder
one charge, we do a timeline.
And if everything fitsreasonably well within that timeline
and you check it out, it'sprobably true.
(19:14):
So that's what I did.
And darn it, everything was true.
Wow.
My skepticism was thrown outthe window.
Everything was true that Ifound out about this woman.
And there's still people inPhiladelphia who knew her and remember
her.
And I was able to talk withthem also.
(19:34):
And I'm still talking with them.
So that's impressive.
Yes.
I'm curious.
I'm looking at the fact thatshe was an international artist and
a civil rights pioneer.
How did she balance those twodifferent interest in a time when
(19:55):
one of those two was not popular?
How do you.
Because, you know, in ourculture of if you.
If you say the wrong thing,people want to cancel.
How does she balance those two?
Well, she.
She.
She was a fantastic, giftedsinger, and she stuck to her.
She stuck to the knitting.
She used her only her voice toovercome all the prejudice and all
(20:17):
the resistance.
She was not militant in any way.
She never or rarely ever spokeout militantly about civil rights.
It was always done in private,but in public, it was her voice that
changed things.
And, you know, music is theinternational language that changes
souls.
(20:38):
And she was able to overcomethat without doing.
Going the militant route,which most people did back then,
to overcome the obstacles.
So that was a big plus for her.
Not many people, not just notmany, but nobody else could have
done that.
She was sent by God to do this.
(20:58):
No question.
No question about it.
Nobody else could have done itlike her.
So I know you've beenimpressed by her life.
Why do you think it'simportant to keep her legacy alive?
Well, that's a good question.
If you look at what's going onin today's world, Kids today need
(21:23):
to have, in my own humbleopinion, a solid Christian.
What do you want to call It Christian.
Christian follower, Christianleader, kind of witness example.
Yeah, a witness example.
And she had, she hadgazillions of witness examples that
(21:46):
were never publicized becausethe world doesn't want to know about
what really motivated her.
They really didn't want to know.
They just wanted to listen toher sing and watch what she did.
Role models is what the wordwas that I was trying to recall earlier
Christian role models.
(22:07):
And she was the ultimateChristian role model that kids today
need to know about because shebroke down many of the obstacles
for our society and she needsto be recognized for that.
(22:28):
Whenever we write a book, italways not only impacts us, but it
impacts our readers.
What did the writing that bookdo to impact your life or change
your opinion about Marian Anderson?
Well, my, my opinion of MarianAnderson prior to that was very superficial.
(22:50):
Like most people, I justthought she was a great singer.
I just, I just knew some ofthe onstage stuff that she did all
her life.
For 50 years, she lived out ofa suitcase, going all over the world.
But the behind the scenes, andthat was only 10% of who she was
(23:10):
as a humanitarian trailblazer.
Her stage life was only 10% ofwho she was the rest of her life.
Behind the scenes is what Ibelieve changed me and will change
people when they learn about her.
She that going back to that1939 concert which was broadcast
(23:35):
to millions, one of the peoplein that audience of millions was
a smart young 10 year old boyin Atlantic Atlanta, Georgia, by
the name of Martin Luther King Jr.
He picked up on that.
He listened intently and hepicked up on that.
(23:58):
And the opening song thatMarian Anderson sang, My Country
Tis of thee, Sweet land ofliberty, and so on and so forth.
He used those exact words.
He didn't sing them in his Ihave a dream speech in 1963, but
he used those exact words thatshe sang in her opening song.
(24:21):
23 years later when he did hisI have a Dream speech, which is historic.
I love that.
I can add.
Excuse me, but I can add one more.
I can add one more thing to that.
Sure.
If you, if you watchedPresident Trump's, President Trump's
(24:41):
inaugural, there was a blackpastor from Detroit.
Yeah.
And did you see his talk, his prayer?
I did.
Well, he used those exactwords that Marian Anderson gave both
Martin Luther King and him inhis talk, in his prayer.
So she lives on today.
(25:02):
She continues to live on today.
Yeah.
I love to ask my guests this question.
What do you want your legacyto be?
Yeah.
Oh, boy.
I have to look at some notes.
I think I made about that one.
Let's see, let me see.
(25:24):
I want my legacy, hopefully,to be that I was a follower of Jesus
Christ.
I loved him, my family and my country.
And I worked to make it abetter world and honor those who
went before me.
That's all I can say.
I love it.
(25:45):
So what do you hope readerswho pick up this book learn from
it?
When they pick up the book, Ihope they'll learn.
First of all, the book was written.
I had the benefit of 23 prior biographies.
This is her 24th biography.
(26:06):
But about half a dozen ofthose 23 biographies were written
by her and was from herautobiography and from several scholars,
several academic scholars.
Now, these scholars had a.
Because Marion was soubiquitous, they could use her, and
(26:28):
they did use her as theirspringboard to really just write
about their point of, theirscholarly point of view, be it musicality,
civil rights, Americanhistory, etc.
And then they threw MarianAnderson in to make it look like
it was a book about her, butit really wasn't.
It was really about theirpoints of view.
And what I did.
(26:50):
What I did was I read allthose books and I boiled them down
to just the essence of who shereally was.
And hopefully I made it shortenough and I put it in chronological
order, by the way, but.
And I made it short enough sothat people could read it in one
or two and two or threesittings with a lot of pictures and
(27:11):
a lot of captions to the pictures.
So.
And I want.
I did that for a purpose too,hopefully, so people would be able
to take that book and dofurther research on her and continue
her legacy.
That's it.
I think that answers thequestion you asked.
(27:31):
I can't remember what it was.
Now it does.
So where can people find yourbook and connect with you on social
media?
Well, I'm not big on socialmedia, being the age group that I
am.
I'm a baby boomer.
I was one of the first babyboomers, actually.
(27:52):
I'm going to be 79 in July.
But I do have a website.
It's easy to remember.
It's called why we love marion.com.
they can.
People can go to that website,they can order the book from there,
and hopefully they'll be ableto leave a message behind or contribute
(28:14):
to the website.
They'll see how to do thatwhen they get on it.
And also it's all over Amazon,of course.
So that's the name of the bookis why Is Remembering a Great American
Hero, Marian Anderson.
Remembering a Great AmericanHero, Marian Anderson.
It's easy to find.
It's out there.
(28:35):
Well, thank you so much forsharing this story and may people
pick up this book and beblessed by it and be blessed by the
research you've done with it.
Well, thank you, Reverend Keith.
I really appreciate that.
And I hope they do, too,because that's my whole point of
being right now.
Thank you so much.
Well, Emil, welcome to thepodcast, my friend.
How you doing today?
I'm doing just fine.
How are you doing out there?
I am awesome here in Iowa.
I can't complain about one thing.
Well, I'm in the City ofBrotherly Love, and we just won the
super bowl, as you know, andthe city is still trying to recover
(01:19):
from it, so I can complainabout a lot.
Of things, I'm sure.
Is that the place that threwsnowballs at Santa?
I think that was the.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
I think that was our formermayor and governor Ed Rendell that
did that during the game.
That was a long time ago.
You know, we all have ourpluses and minuses of our little
(01:41):
states, don't we?
Yep.
So I'm glad you're on the podcast.
I love to talk about thistopic and kind of reliving the history
of so many important people.
But before we get started withit, I want to ask you my favorite
question.
Yeah.
What's the best piece ofadvice you ever received?
Well, my best piece of advicethat I ever received was to learn
(02:05):
how to set goals that arereasonable and always to pray and
never give up on your goals.
That's the best piece ofadvice I can ever remember.
That's good.
I like that.
Who told you that?
I think it was my father.
My dad who was one of my heroes.
(02:29):
That's amazing.
Our parents have so muchwisdom to offer us, don't they?
Yep, they sure do.
I'm curious.
At our advanced age, we alwayscan look back at people who have,
you know, been important for us.
Who are some people in yourlife who served as a mentor for you?
Well, as I mentioned, my dadwas a tremendous mentor for me.
(02:52):
My grandparents, his parents,and my dad's friend, Jack Kelly,
who happened to be the olderbrother of Princess Grace Kelly from
Monaco.
Wow.
Remember her, don't you?
I do.
I hope.
And a host of other men fromBoathouse Row in Philadelphia, where
(03:13):
I spent most of my formativeyears in my teens and early twenties.
Yeah, they really were.
They served as tremendousmentors to me.
That's so cool.
So I'm curious about your journey.
So tell us about your journey,your personal story.
Well, I'm the oldest of ninekids from a strict Roman Catholic
(03:37):
family in Philadelphia, whichis a very Catholic city.
Dad started me as a 13 yearold in his sport of rowing, which
led to a lot of successes.
I was able to win a bunch ofnational championships.
I rode with Olympic championsall the time.
(03:58):
I received multiplescholarship offers from colleges
and universities.
And after college I became aNavy pilot, got a commercial pilot's
license after that, and becamea serial entrepreneur.
I won't get into all the gorydetails of my business life, but
(04:22):
it was very exciting and successful.
And while a Navy pilot, I hada near death flying experience, which
I realize now that God wasn'tready to take me away.
For some unknown reason, hewasn't done with me yet at that time.
So here I am today.
Wow, Emil, that's an.
(04:43):
That's an amazing story.
So I see that you are Emil J.
Henry iii.
Tell us about the other two.
Yeah, well, usually I go by mymiddle name, J, which stands for
Joseph, because for a lot ofmy life my grandfather Emil Senior
and my father Emil Jr.
Were alive.
(05:04):
And I go by Joe because mostof the doofuses that I used to hang
out with didn't know how topronounce Emile and they would just
call me Emily.
And then I used to be likeJohnny Cash, the boy named Sue.
Getting into a lot of fights,it made me pretty tough.
But I'm using a meal as my penname now because it sounds a lot
(05:26):
better than just Joe Henwood.
That's good.
I love that.
So you, you wrote a book aboutMarian Anderson.
And I did a little researchmyself because I honestly didn't
recall most of her life, butkind of give us a brief overview
of who Marian Anderson was andwhy she's so important figure in
American history.
(05:47):
Well, Reverend Keith, if youdon't remember or didn't know much
about her, you are in thesolid majority because there's not
a lot of people around todayleft today who remember much about
her.
I stumbled across her.
I was very fortunate.
Marian Anderson is one of themost underappreciated heroes of our
(06:09):
American history.
She was the only one who, ifyou only want to find out a lot about
her, just Google her and thenlook at her Wikipedia page and check
out the links.
It will blow you away.
It really will.
(06:30):
Then you have to set aside alot of time to do that because her
Wikipedia page is long.
Yeah, there's a lot more therethan I could ever cover here with
the delimited time we're goingto have.
Essentially in 1939, she brokethrough all the Jim Crow laws, segregation
(06:53):
laws that separated the whitesfrom the blacks for a long time.
And she brought.
This was in the nation'scapital where these Jim Crow laws
were very strong.
Washington was a very southerntype segregated city back then.
It still is a little bittoday, actually.
I lived there for three yearsand I Know it.
(07:16):
She broke through thesebarriers when she sang her concert
on the steps of the LincolnMemorial because she was not allowed
to sing in the largest indoorvenue, which was Constitutional hall,
because it was owned by theDaughters of the American Revolution
and they had a whites onlyperformers policy there and it couldn't
(07:39):
be broken.
They tried for two years tobreak it and they couldn't.
So finally, Eleanor Rooseveltstepped in, who was a good friend
of Marion's from 1936, and gother and her husband got her on the
steps of the Lincoln Memorialon the National Mall.
So then that really marked thevery beginning of the modern civil
(08:04):
rights era.
And that was 24 years beforeMartin Luther King's March on Washington
with his I have a dream speechand 25 years before Lyndon Johnson's
Great Society, where he issueda lot of help desegregating the country.
(08:27):
Anyway, her majoraccomplishments were breakthroughs
in gender and racial barriers.
And she was awarded theCongressional Medal of Honor and
the Presidential Medal ofFreedom, which proves it.
She was the full package.
(08:47):
She was the full package.
If I'm not mistaken, thatconcert that she did on the Lincoln
Memorial, if I remember thenumbers I saw, there were like 70,000
people who attended that heardher single.
Well, thank God for theprejudice of the Daughters of the
American Revolution, becauseif she had sung in their Constitution
hall, which only seated 4,500,she would not have had the opportunity
(09:12):
to go onto the National Malland sing in front of over 75,000
people live, which wasbroadcast live throughout the nation
to millions.
And that had a lot of ramifications.
Also, and if I'm not mistakenalso, I think I did my research that
she was the first AfricanAmerican to sing at the inauguration.
(09:32):
Sing the national Anthem at Kennedys.
Right inauguration.
Well, I don't know if she wasthe first African American.
She probably was, but she wasdefinitely the first person, whether
white or black, to sing at twoinaugurations for a Republican and
a Democrat.
Doesn't that say a lot about her?
(09:53):
She sang in 57 forEisenhower's second term and in 61
for John F.
Kennedy's first term.
Yeah, they knew who she wasback then, even if they forgot now.
You know, as you wrote thisbook, what were some never before
characteristics of her thatyou discovered that you included
(10:14):
in your book?
Well, the never before knowncharacteristics, I would say the
fact that 1954 she wrote, whenshe was a worldwide celebrity known
throughout the world, that itwas her faith that made her voice,
(10:37):
her faith in God that made hervoice without her faith, she would
never have been able to do it.
She said, wow.
She was a, like I mentionedthe full package.
She really a very dedicated,holy Christian woman who was very
humble and private.
(10:57):
And she never, never, everexposed her private life or her family
to the media, which is one ofthe reasons why a lot of people don't
remember her, because shenever even had a publicity agent.
She was an A list celebrityworldwide and she.
(11:17):
Publicity agent.
Can you imagine that?
Well, not today.
No, no, no, not today at all.
Can you share a story,anecdote from the book that highlights
some of her generosity?
Because the season also had ahistory of generosity as well.
Well, in the late 30s, early40s, when we were still in the throes
(11:41):
of the Great Depression, in1938, she was earning $238,000 a
year.
Okay.
And in 1939, after her, herhistoric concert, which made her
an international starovernight, she was earning on average
(12:02):
$4 million a year.
That's pretty serious moneyeven today.
So she took the first awardthat she received was from the Philadelphia
city, and she won $10,000 asPhiladelphia's most outstanding citizen.
(12:27):
She banked that for a coupleof years and then started up a program
for young artists, especiallyAfrican American artists who wanted
to make their mark.
And she set up the MarianAnderson Scholarship foundation.
And that ran for 40 years.
(12:50):
40 years after that, she keptfunding it and funding and funding
it.
After the original $10,000,what was the rest of your question?
Oh, just an example of herhumility and her generosity.
I appreciate that.
Oh, well, her humility wasover the top again because she was
(13:11):
such a dedicated Christian andshe was a big believer, of course,
in God's word, the Bible, andwhere it says in Matthew, I think,
six, three, don't let the lefthand know what your right hand is
doing.
She gave all the money away,as much as she possibly could, anonymously
(13:31):
and quietly.
All right, so she, she was areal force to be reckoned with.
And that's one of the otherreasons people don't remember her,
that she, she, she funded somany things.
One of the biggest things shedid was she funded the building of
the, the Children's Hospitalhere in Philadelphia, which is a
(13:56):
worldwide nonprofit hospitalwhich brings in children from all
over the world and treats themfor very rare, hard to cure diseases
free of charge.
And it's been doing that veryeffectively ever since.
In Philadelphia, she alsofunded the place called.
(14:20):
It's the PhiladelphiaOrchestra's summertime concert venue.
It's called the Man Music Center.
Prior to the tune of two and ahalf million as well as she funded
the hospital.
Two and a half million.
She wrote these checks out ofher personal checking account.
(14:43):
Keith, can you believe that?
Quietly.
She did it very quietly and privately.
And when she.
In 1977, she began at the ageof 80, actually she began donating
(15:05):
her papers and all hermemorabilia and a tremendous number
of over 4,600 photographs thatshe took.
She was a shutterbug.
Everywhere she went in theworld she took pictures, brought
them home to her home inPhiladelphia and later on in Connecticut,
had her own dark room anddeveloped them and then just threw
(15:28):
them in a box unlabeled.
And University of Pennsylvaniastarted receiving all that memorabilia
in 1977.
Between 77 and 1991 theyreceived over 495 boxes of her stuff.
(15:48):
And now the University ofPennsylvania, which is a very prestigious
Ivy League college, as youknow, has in their library, their
main library, which isenormous, they have a Marian Anderson
Collections Center.
I happen to have the luck ofwriting my book starting in 2019,
(16:14):
just when Penn received a biggrant to start digitizing everything
that was in those 495 boxesand put it online.
So I was able to do it righthere where I'm sitting right now
from my kitchen table withouteven going to the library.
Right.
So her life is impressive.
(16:36):
I'm curious what inspired youto write her biography?
I think it was the Lord's handat work.
Because When I was 9, 10, 11years old, being the oldest of nine
kids, I used to go and visitmy grandparents home, which was in
(17:00):
the same neighborhood and theywere continuously playing Marian
Anderson records, which Ididn't particularly like at that
age.
I would rather listen to rockand roll.
You know, it was big that backthen, back in the late 50s, so.
But I listened and years, 60some years went by.
(17:23):
By the way, I'm going to be 79in July, so forgive me if I stumble
every once in a while.
My memory is not what it usedto be.
But no one's, no one's is atthis point.
You're just a kid compared to me.
You know it.
So anyway, time goes by 60, 65 years.
(17:45):
And the Marian Anderson Awardswas going to be happening at a big,
the big Kimmel center, whichis where the Philadelphia Orchestra
is headquartered inPhiladelphia, downtown Philadelphia.
I decided I was going to go to it.
And before I went, I got onthe Internet, being a researcher.
(18:06):
I started looking her up and Ifound so much about her.
I said this can't be true.
It's got to Be urban legend.
No one person could have doneall this stuff.
So I was concerned because afriend of mine had asked me, who
was a philanthropist, asked meto put together a pamphlet so he
(18:29):
could circulate it among hisphilanthropic friends to raise money
for the.
The Marian Anderson Museum,which is here in Philadelphia.
And as I was putting ittogether, I said, I can't publish
this unless I really know it's true.
So I called up my brother, whohad just retired as the chief homicide
detective in Philadelphia.
(18:51):
He was a cop.
And I said, jim, how do youinvestigate somebody and know that
what you're finding is true?
And he said, well, before wetake anybody into court on a murder
one charge, we do a timeline.
And if everything fitsreasonably well within that timeline
and you check it out, it'sprobably true.
(19:14):
So that's what I did.
And darn it, everything was true.
Wow.
My skepticism was thrown outthe window.
Everything was true that Ifound out about this woman.
And there's still people inPhiladelphia who knew her and remember
her.
And I was able to talk withthem also.
(19:34):
And I'm still talking with them.
So that's impressive.
Yes.
I'm curious.
I'm looking at the fact thatshe was an international artist and
a civil rights pioneer.
How did she balance those twodifferent interest in a time when
(19:55):
one of those two was not popular?
How do you.
Because, you know, in ourculture of if you.
If you say the wrong thing,people want to cancel.
How does she balance those two?
Well, she.
She.
She was a fantastic, giftedsinger, and she stuck to her.
She stuck to the knitting.
She used her only her voice toovercome all the prejudice and all
(20:17):
the resistance.
She was not militant in any way.
She never or rarely ever spokeout militantly about civil rights.
It was always done in private,but in public, it was her voice that
changed things.
And, you know, music is theinternational language that changes
souls.
(20:38):
And she was able to overcomethat without doing.
Going the militant route,which most people did back then,
to overcome the obstacles.
So that was a big plus for her.
Not many people, not just notmany, but nobody else could have
done that.
She was sent by God to do this.
(20:58):
No question.
No question about it.
Nobody else could have done itlike her.
So I know you've beenimpressed by her life.
Why do you think it'simportant to keep her legacy alive?
Well, that's a good question.
If you look at what's going onin today's world, Kids today need
(21:23):
to have, in my own humbleopinion, a solid Christian.
What do you want to call It Christian.
Christian follower, Christianleader, kind of witness example.
Yeah, a witness example.
And she had, she hadgazillions of witness examples that
(21:46):
were never publicized becausethe world doesn't want to know about
what really motivated her.
They really didn't want to know.
They just wanted to listen toher sing and watch what she did.
Role models is what the wordwas that I was trying to recall earlier
Christian role models.
(22:07):
And she was the ultimateChristian role model that kids today
need to know about because shebroke down many of the obstacles
for our society and she needsto be recognized for that.
(22:28):
Whenever we write a book, italways not only impacts us, but it
impacts our readers.
What did the writing that bookdo to impact your life or change
your opinion about Marian Anderson?
Well, my, my opinion of MarianAnderson prior to that was very superficial.
(22:50):
Like most people, I justthought she was a great singer.
I just, I just knew some ofthe onstage stuff that she did all
her life.
For 50 years, she lived out ofa suitcase, going all over the world.
But the behind the scenes, andthat was only 10% of who she was
(23:10):
as a humanitarian trailblazer.
Her stage life was only 10% ofwho she was the rest of her life.
Behind the scenes is what Ibelieve changed me and will change
people when they learn about her.
She that going back to that1939 concert which was broadcast
(23:35):
to millions, one of the peoplein that audience of millions was
a smart young 10 year old boyin Atlantic Atlanta, Georgia, by
the name of Martin Luther King Jr.
He picked up on that.
He listened intently and hepicked up on that.
(23:58):
And the opening song thatMarian Anderson sang, My Country
Tis of thee, Sweet land ofliberty, and so on and so forth.
He used those exact words.
He didn't sing them in his Ihave a dream speech in 1963, but
he used those exact words thatshe sang in her opening song.
(24:21):
23 years later when he did hisI have a Dream speech, which is historic.
I love that.
I can add.
Excuse me, but I can add one more.
I can add one more thing to that.
Sure.
If you, if you watchedPresident Trump's, President Trump's
(24:41):
inaugural, there was a blackpastor from Detroit.
Yeah.
And did you see his talk, his prayer?
I did.
Well, he used those exactwords that Marian Anderson gave both
Martin Luther King and him inhis talk, in his prayer.
So she lives on today.
(25:02):
She continues to live on today.
Yeah.
I love to ask my guests this question.
What do you want your legacyto be?
Yeah.
Oh, boy.
I have to look at some notes.
I think I made about that one.
Let's see, let me see.
(25:24):
I want my legacy, hopefully,to be that I was a follower of Jesus
Christ.
I loved him, my family and my country.
And I worked to make it abetter world and honor those who
went before me.
That's all I can say.
I love it.
(25:45):
So what do you hope readerswho pick up this book learn from
it?
When they pick up the book, Ihope they'll learn.
First of all, the book was written.
I had the benefit of 23 prior biographies.
This is her 24th biography.
(26:06):
But about half a dozen ofthose 23 biographies were written
by her and was from herautobiography and from several scholars,
several academic scholars.
Now, these scholars had a.
Because Marion was soubiquitous, they could use her, and
(26:28):
they did use her as theirspringboard to really just write
about their point of, theirscholarly point of view, be it musicality,
civil rights, Americanhistory, etc.
And then they threw MarianAnderson in to make it look like
it was a book about her, butit really wasn't.
It was really about theirpoints of view.
And what I did.
(26:50):
What I did was I read allthose books and I boiled them down
to just the essence of who shereally was.
And hopefully I made it shortenough and I put it in chronological
order, by the way, but.
And I made it short enough sothat people could read it in one
or two and two or threesittings with a lot of pictures and
(27:11):
a lot of captions to the pictures.
So.
And I want.
I did that for a purpose too,hopefully, so people would be able
to take that book and dofurther research on her and continue
her legacy.
That's it.
I think that answers thequestion you asked.
(27:31):
I can't remember what it was.
Now it does.
So where can people find yourbook and connect with you on social
media?
Well, I'm not big on socialmedia, being the age group that I
am.
I'm a baby boomer.
I was one of the first babyboomers, actually.
(27:52):
I'm going to be 79 in July.
But I do have a website.
It's easy to remember.
It's called why we love marion.com.
they can.
People can go to that website,they can order the book from there,
and hopefully they'll be ableto leave a message behind or contribute
(28:14):
to the website.
They'll see how to do thatwhen they get on it.
And also it's all over Amazon,of course.
So that's the name of the bookis why Is Remembering a Great American
Hero, Marian Anderson.
Remembering a Great AmericanHero, Marian Anderson.
It's easy to find.
It's out there.
(28:35):
Well, thank you so much forsharing this story and may people
pick up this book and beblessed by it and be blessed by the
research you've done with it.
Well, thank you, Reverend Keith.
I really appreciate that.
And I hope they do, too,because that's my whole point of
being right now.
Thank you so much.
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