February 13, 2025 • 36 mins
Andrew shares his transformative journey through chronic back pain, detailing the various treatments he pursued and the lessons learned along the way. His experience emphasizes the importance of understanding one's body, promoting a proactive approach to recovery that extends beyond surgical options.
• Andrew's initial injury working in construction
• The emotional and physical toll of chronic pain
• Various treatments explored, from traditional to unconventional
• Discovering Dr. Jeff’s High Performance Spine Program
• Empowerment through understanding body mechanics and movement
• Andrew’s transition to coaching and helping others recover
• The take-home message of hope: not all pain requires surgery
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
But, as I said in my own experience, I was not
letting my disc heal because Iwas panicking and I was driving
around and I was bending all thewrong ways and I was exercising
without knowing which exercisesare actually good for me and
which ones are bad for me.
I didn't know how to sit, Ididn't know how to drive
properly, I didn't know what mylift position is.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Welcome to Bed Back and Beyond, sharing positive
stories of recovery from seriousback or neck injury.
Your host is CK, a fellowchampion who draws on her own
experience with herniated discsurgery.
Join her as she talks withothers who have overcome the
physical and emotional trauma ofa painful injury and discover
(00:44):
for yourself how you can findhope and encouragement in
recovery.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
Hi Andrew.
Thank you so much for joiningme on this episode of Bed, Back
and Beyond.
Before we dive into your backinjury, how about you tell us a
little bit about yourself?
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Thanks for having me.
So my name is Andrew.
Once you translate it toEnglish, because I'm from Serbia
and my name is Andrea, but itdoes translate to Andrew.
So I had.
The first episode with Backpainwas 12 years ago, when I was
like 22 years old.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
Were you still in?
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Serbia.
Yes, I was in serbia, butactually my grandfather worked
in italy.
So because I was a student atthe time and didn't make any
money and he's a constructionworker, he asked me to go on
like summer job to work with him.
And he does uh, he builds,builds walls from rocks, very
(01:46):
big rocks.
So that's how I injured myself.
Initially it was by pushingreally big rocks uphill.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
How old were you at that time?
Speaker 1 (01:56):
I was 22 years old 12 years ago, so that was not
smart to go from being asedentary student who plays
games to work a heavyconstruction job yeah, well,
you're 22, so you probablyfigured out.
Speaker 4 (02:12):
There was no problem.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Yes, yes, I thought I was young and I can just push
rocks uphill, no issues.
Uh, so like 10 days into thatjob I started feeling the pain,
like my back went out.
You probably know the feelingis when you have that like a zap
in the lower back and then paindown the leg.
But also I experienced aterrible groin pain and it hits
(02:35):
me in the male region.
Yeah.
So I didn't know at the timewhere that was coming from.
So of course I stopped working,I rested for like two or three
days, but the pain was comingfrom.
So of course I stopped working,I rested for like two or three
days, but the pain was stillhere.
And then I traveled back toSerbia.
I got the MRI and I got thisimage, this exact image.
I actually printed it out sothat you can see it.
(02:56):
So this is my wait it's theother way.
Yeah, l5s1.
So this is how it looked likeeven 12 years ago.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
That looks a lot like mine.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Yeah, this MRI was actually taken four years ago.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
Oh, okay.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
I have an MRI 12 years ago, six years ago, four
years ago and a year ago and Iwill tell you through the story
because that's what you want tohear.
So I I flew back, like I cameback to serbia and I got the mri
and the doctor told me I havelike a disc herniation, alpha vs
one, uh protrusion, and Ishould go and get some shot like
(03:38):
a medicine and the rest for twoweeks.
And that actually worked.
So I was painfree after twoweeks of resting and like a
cortisone-based stop.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
Can I ask you what's the health insurance situation
like in Serbia at that time?
Speaker 1 (03:53):
It's free, like healthcare here is free, but
it's not really good, but it'sfree.
So you can just go to thedoctor.
You need to wait in line forlike four hours and then you get
treated on some level.
So it's not bad.
It's not like the USA it youneed to wait in line for like
four hours and then you gettreated on some level.
Okay, so it's not.
It's not bad, it's not like theUSA, it's not like that I will
treat better because it's free.
(04:13):
So two or three years after thatepisode, I was lifting
something heavy again I think itwas like a refrigerator and my
back went out again.
So I was back on the sameprocedure that I learned the
first time.
I took the shots and I restedfor two weeks and my pain was
gone.
It's great.
And then I continued to doheavy jobs and then I ended up
(04:39):
in the IT industry and I wasrequired to sit a lot in the
office and then also drive a lotto meet with the clients all
over Serbia.
So I was always seated, andwhen I come back home, my wife
was not driving at the time, soshe and the kids would want to
go somewhere, so I end updriving again.
(04:59):
I drive 20 hours a day or 18hours a day and then I I sleep a
little late, then I drive againor sit.
So four years ago or three and ahalf years ago, my back went
out again.
It was the same situation.
I bent forward and I waspicking up something from the
(05:20):
back of my car.
It was like one kilogram heavy,not very heavy, like a bag,
yeah.
So I just bent to pick thatsomething and my back of my car
it was like one kilogram heavy,not very heavy, like a baby,
yeah.
So I just bent to pick thatsomething and my back went out.
I I feel the zap in the lowerback.
Pain goes down the leg.
So I tried the same, like Iknow what to do in these
situations and it goes away intwo weeks.
So I tried laying in bed.
(05:41):
I took two weeks off from work.
My wife is a nurse, so shegives me the shot and it's like
three shots in a week, somethinglike that.
Like every two days you get theshot.
It's for pain.
Speaker 4 (05:54):
Was that a four-day shot?
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Yeah, it's just to lower the inflammation.
It does nothing, I know.
Now Two weeks went by and I wasstill in pain.
So I called my boss at the timeand I told him I'm still in
pain, like I can't walk.
My pain is eight out of 10.
I can't get out, get out of thebed.
What do I do?
And he suggested some expensivetreatment for me at the time,
(06:19):
which was the.
It's the best clinic in theregion where I live here and
they have those decompressiontables, so they put you on a
table and the machine kind ofstretches your spine.
Yeah.
On certain pattern, kind of.
So my boss at the time actuallyfunded me to go to have 15 of
(06:40):
those treatments like 15 days Ibelieve it was and it was really
expensive.
It was like my monthly salaryor something like that.
So good boss.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
So I went on those treatments and I remember how it
kind of goes.
They put you for like 40minutes on that table.
It decompresses your spine.
Then the physical therapist onthere made me, uh, pull my knees
to my chest oh, okay which isreally bad for me, but this is
that I didn't know at the time?
(07:11):
yeah, you don't usually and thenthey made me rotate my knees,
which is also really bad.
Discs in the lower back don'tlike rotation, but I didn't know
at the time and then I go getthe laser for like 15 minutes
and then I go get some electricsocks through the leg okay, I
don't know how to call thattherapy and then the treatment
(07:32):
is over and of course I had todrive for 20 minutes to go to
get that treatment and thenafter the treatment I feel
really terrible.
I have to drive back home andin.
In those 15 days I actually gotmuch worse, much, much, much
worse.
And when I told them in theclinic this is not working, like
I'm not getting better, theysuggested to buy another 15
(07:55):
treatments.
And I said I'm not doing this,Like I'm not doing this.
So then I went to physicaltherapy, like the classic
physical therapy.
I thought, okay, robots are nothelping, I can afford physical
therapy, like the classicphysical therapy.
I thought, okay, robots are nothelping, I can afford physical
therapy, so let's try somephysical therapy and is this
still in serbia at the time?
Yeah, yeah, okay, I'm still inserbia right now oh, you are
(08:15):
okay yeah, uh.
So I went to pt and I rememberfirst there was a like a 22 year
old female physical therapistdoes better, I'm just saying and
she made me touch my toes,which is also really bad for me.
I'll explain later why, becausenow I understand and I was
(08:38):
touching my toes and she wouldtell me, uh, like I would
explain to her, this is causingme a spike in the pain level
right and I was actually walkingto that physical therapy like
something started to click hereat the time.
So I was not driving to thephysical therapy.
I walked for 15 minutes and Iwould feel better when I when I
(08:58):
arrived there, and then shewould make me to uh touch toes,
which I didn't like, and I toldher this is not good, and she
told me to push through the pain.
Now I understand that this is areally bad advice.
You don't push through the painwhen you have a disc-related
issue in the lower back.
So I did.
Two weeks of PT Pain is still10 out of 10 or 8 out of 10.
(09:21):
And all the so in the last 12years uh, well, not 12, 10 when
I was in pain I'm not in painanymore.
I found the solution uh.
So all the time while I washaving uh disc related issues in
the lower right, I would getthat terrible pain in the groin
region and that's like it's.
(09:42):
It's really really not pleasantat all.
It disables me completely, likeI can only fall down, curl up
and not move yeah, I think thegroin pain is considered a red
flag.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
Like usually, groin pain will say go see a surgeon
yes, which is what I did.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Uh.
So, uh, during that physicaltherapy, that groin pain started
appearing more and morefrequently.
It only lasts for 10 to 15seconds, but it's terrible, and
I later I understood that it isconnected to the l5s1 specific
disc herniation, but it's onlylike five percent of l5s1 disc
herniations have that issue, andI actually managed to meet
(10:22):
another person who had thatissue.
I'll tell you more about that.
Uh, so, after the physicaltherapy, uh, it didn't work.
I went to visit chiropractors.
So chiropractors would bend mesome tried dry needling okay, so
they put a needle, yeah, tokind of relax the muscles.
(10:42):
Nothing worked nothing, yeah.
Then a friend told me about aspiritual healer, a lady that
lives on a hill, and that ladyfixed her wife's, his wife's
lower back issues.
Okay.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
This is a first.
I went there as well.
I went there as well.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
I went there as well.
Of course.
I drove for two hours to gothere, sure Well when you're in
pain, you want to try anything,right.
A really old lady lives in aclay house.
If you know what a clay houseis?
It's not made of bricks, it'smade out of clay, so it's from
like 1900s or something.
It's a really old house and sheactually relieved the pressure
of my nerve.
(11:17):
Like I went there.
I drove for two hours, so I'min more pain now.
Then she would just I don'tknow pass me something.
I don't know what she did, butit was like a chiropractor
approach, something like that,and when I stood up, actually my
pain was relieved, like thesciatica was almost gone, and I
(11:38):
said thank you.
And then I drove two hours backand I was back in the same pain
before because I'm drivingagain, okay.
So then I drove two hours backand I was back in the same pain
before because I'm driving again, okay.
So then I found out about thebest chiropractor in the country
.
He lives again two hours frommy house.
I need to drive and he has abook and I read his book and I
went on there and I brought myMRI multiple ones and I brought
(12:04):
cash pay him because he's gonnafix me, right.
I called right, yeah.
He said yeah, come on.
So I I went to thatchiropractor and, uh, he took my
mri, like the cd, actually putit in the computer, and then he
saw, and then he was looking,he's looking and looking and he
said I'm not touching you andI'm like like what do you mean?
Like you can't fix me, youdon't want to fix me.
Speaker 4 (12:26):
I just drove two hours.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
I just drove two hours.
You told me to come, like whyare you not fixing me?
Fix me.
And he said no.
He explained something which Idon't know how true that is, but
he said because my disc is kindof going downwards here.
Speaker 4 (12:44):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
I, my disc is kind of going downwards here.
Okay, my disc requires surgery.
So he said, because it kind ofgoes downwards, you need surgery
.
Like go have the surgery, buysome cream so you don't get the
scar issues, I don't know someexpensive cream from him.
And then then, after I get thesurgery, I can get back to him
so he can kind of fix me or fixme more or I don't know.
Tell me which stretches to dosomething like that.
(13:11):
And I said, okay, let's govisit some surgeons.
So I went to two surgeons thatare free.
As I explained, serbia has thefree healthcare system, so you
just need to wait a lot.
And then you visit the surgeonand the surgeon told me that I
need to have the surgery, andthis really angers me.
It's not okay.
(13:31):
So this will never go back in,they told me.
So whatever I do, whichevertreatments I try, this will
never go back inside and I willalways be in pain.
And then they have those kindof scary stories like your nerve
will shorten.
Oh, that's impossible.
But I haven't heard that.
Yeah, I understand, yeah, I didso.
(13:53):
My nerve will shorten and thenI will limp for the rest of my
life.
I don't think this is like youcan't find this in any book or
anywhere, but that's what thesurgeon told me.
And then I actually went to theprivate medical care, uh, which
charges money for the surgerybut yeah, uh, so, and he
(14:14):
actually had an mri, so Iactually took another mri on
there, so he already got somemoney.
And then he told me yeah, so,uh, you need to get the surgery.
If you pay here, which was notcheap it was €3,000 for the
surgery, which was like a lot ofmy monthly income, maybe four
(14:36):
or five months, something likethat so that was really
expensive for me.
But still, I sell my car, fixmy back, go back to work.
What am I going to do?
I'm soon going to get fired.
If I get fired, I lose my house.
If I lose my house, I lose mywife and kids.
There's no way out.
And I'm already six months inpain continuously during this
(14:57):
journey.
Yeah, so my last episode wasactually eight months of
constant pain and it was eighteight out of ten to ten out of
ten, and whenever the growingpain happens, it's just like I'm
done, like that.
Speaker 4 (15:10):
Yeah, so you're pretty seriously you're pretty
seriously considering sellingyour car.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Yes, I even considered selling my apartment.
Oh, because after the like, I'mgoing to lose my job.
Yeah, that boss was verytolerable.
But now I'm six months at homeand I work in the IT industry,
but like sales department andall it was Corona time at the
time, so people were workingfrom home, so I had a little bit
of luck, yeah, but all thedevelopers, like there's 16
(15:39):
there was like 16 of us, I don'tknow and 15 developers get got
back in the office and I'm likethe sales guy working from home,
like it didn't make any sense.
Speaker 4 (15:48):
I, I could sense it that I'm going to lose my job
eventually yeah, this pain is sointense though People don't
understand it unless they'recurious.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
Unless they don't know what they're talking about.
That's why I mentioned a reallyyoung and healthy physical
therapist.
Pushed me to touch my toes.
He didn't have any back pain.
Private office surgeon that'sthe third surgeon I visited also
pushed the surgery because hewanted my money.
And he he explained like, uh,he's very experienced and if I
(16:23):
don't pay and go the free route,I don't know who's going to
operate on me.
So it might be some youngsurgeon, yeah.
So this is why I shouldn'tchoose the free surgery and pay
for his surgery.
And he has like a modern officekind of space.
You can stay there for therecovery time and things like
that.
And I asked him so the MRI justdone, freshly done in his
(16:48):
office.
Okay, so you're going to cutout the disc, I'm going to show
it again.
So you're going to cut out thispart, I'm going to show it
again.
So you're going to cut out thispart.
He said, yes, this is the disccactomy, I cannot pronounce it,
well, but that's the surgery,right, so he's going to cut the
disc.
And I said, okay, what happensafter?
(17:09):
And he said, well, you'reprobably going to lose the pain,
but then this disc above willherniate next.
So he told me that.
Speaker 4 (17:22):
Oh, because of the discectomy.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Because this disc is going to be weakened because
they're going to go in there andthey're going to cut a part out
of it, and then this disc aboveis going to get weakened and
it's going to take double theload.
And then that one will usuallygo next, which is actually the
(17:45):
case if you kind of read aboutthe surgeries.
So I said no deal, I don't likethat deal.
I want a permanent solution tomy problem.
I don't want to visit you everytwo years and give you a lot of
money.
That doesn't make any sense.
So I was now uh lost, prettymuch like I.
I'm expecting to lose my job.
(18:05):
I am expecting to lose myfamily.
I'm expecting, expecting tosell my apartment in the big
city, go back to live with myparents.
I don't know what I'm going todo.
And I stumbled upon, uh, drjeff winterheimer's program on
youtube.
Dr jeff was on youtube, there'ssome videos on there and you had
him as a guest on your podcastI did yes, so I was started to
(18:30):
research about dr jeff and whathe was saying and he was saying
PT doesn't work because of this.
It actually made sense to mebecause I experienced physical
therapy.
Yes.
Then he has a video on why thedecompression tables don't work.
Okay, makes sense.
I was looking at those videoslearning more and then it all
(18:52):
just made sense to me and Idecided to actually join his
program.
It's the High Performance PineProgram.
So long story short, but inthree weeks into his program my
pain went to two out of 10.
Wow, and in three months intohis program I was pain-free.
Three years after the program,which is now, I'm still
(19:15):
pain-free and I'm sitting rightnow, as you can see.
So why is the program differentthan all the other treatments?
It just completely changed myperspective on how to look at
this problem.
Day one, when you join theprogram, get to, you find out
(19:36):
about your faulty movementpatterns.
So which bias you are.
So, for example, uh, I'mextension bias, which means that
my disc herniated in a way thatif I extend my back, okay it
it's.
It kind of gets better a littlebit, it goes back inside a
little bit.
It doesn't cause me pain.
And when I flex, which is moveforward a little bit, I get
(20:00):
increasing pain.
This is why touching the toes,driving places and just being in
flexion all the time whichmakes sense, like my journey was
bending lifting sitting.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
Right Driving for 20 hours.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Yes, it just clicked and the program is really
complex.
It took a long time for Dr Jeffto kind of devise the program,
but every day you just seecontent and you know what you
need to do.
You download a spreadsheet likedo this in the morning, do this
in the afternoon, do this inthe evening.
You just do the work and you'llget better.
It's it's, it's that simplewhen you know what you need to
(20:37):
do did you have to fly over ordid?
Speaker 4 (20:40):
were you able to join his program online?
Speaker 1 (20:43):
online, so the program is entirely online.
So I I found out about theprogram on youtube.
I was in serbia, uh, I joinedthe program by scheduling a call
and then, after the call, I wasin the program and I just did
the work and I got better andactually, after all of that
(21:05):
getting better, I now work forDr Jeff.
So now I'm one of the coachesinside the High Performance
Spine program.
That's why I wrote Andrew HighPerformance Spine on there.
If people can see that I don'tknow, and there's a logo right
behind me and if you can see it.
Speaker 4 (21:20):
Only barely yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
So I can say that Dr Jeff saved my life twice, and
the first time was when he curedmy back pain and the second
time was when I actually startedworking for him.
He gave me a job.
So in the middle of the program, my boss at the time called me
and said and I remember it wassunday, uh, monday morning you
(21:45):
need to come to work.
He tolerated me for six monthsright so he just said monday
morning everybody is in theoffice, you're the sales guy.
Like morning, everybody's inthe office.
You're the sales guy, you needto be in the office or on the
field meeting people.
So I said okay, and I went thenext day, monday morning, and I
(22:08):
quit my job.
Oh, okay, because I was juststarted with the
high-performance buying programand I was just started to
getting some relief and I wasnot going back to the previous
life, you can say it like that.
I was not going back to driving, I was not going back to
sitting at the time.
(22:30):
While I get stronger to toleratethe load of those activities, I
can drive.
Now I can drive for 20 hoursagain.
I can sit for all day long if Iwant to.
I don't.
I can stand up desk now and Iwalk when I need to walk, like
every two hours I go for a shortwalk.
I don't sit for eight hoursstraight because that caused me
the issue that I have.
So another interesting thing iswhen I joined the Head for a
(22:55):
Science program, I started tolearn and consume and learn and
I figured out wait, if I onlystayed at home and didn't
actually drive to get all thosetreatments I might have like get
better just by not driving,like just by not driving Right,
which is not the case, but likeI wouldn't get worse, at least
(23:16):
Like I think I wouldn't getworse.
Speaker 4 (23:18):
Undoing all the progress.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
If I only knew to like walk around and do all the
tips that I learned in the HighPerformance Line program.
But like you can't help.
Speaker 4 (23:33):
So how long would you say to a person, try this
program, and if you don't getany relief within like three
weeks or three months, then it'snot working.
Do you have like a timeline?
Speaker 1 (23:48):
Well, it depends.
So I have been a coach forquite some time now and I have
seen people join the program whohad pain for two weeks and who
had pain for 40 years.
I have coached a person who was85 years old and I also coach a
person who is 16 years old.
So it depends on the actualinjury and how long they had it.
(24:13):
The longer they had the issue,the longer it will take to
reactivate the muscles and getthem pain-free.
But usually the the smartestthing you can do, in my opinion,
is to at least join for onemonth, see how it goes, uh,
before doing the surgery,because I talk with people who
(24:36):
had multiple failed surgeries ona daily basis and they are
still in pain.
Speaker 4 (24:41):
Right.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
And the fusion surgery is the hardest to treat
because it's just like a lot ofand we have people with multiple
failed fusion surgeries.
Join the program and weactually get them better, but it
will take a year.
It takes a year to heal thedisc.
This is just the process of howlong it takes and the discs I
(25:02):
actually want to heal.
But, as I said in my my ownexperience, I was not letting my
disc heal because I waspanicking and I was driving
around and I was bending all thewrong ways and I was exercising
without knowing which exercisesare actually good for me and
which ones are bad for me.
I didn't know how to sit, Ididn't know how to drive
(25:23):
properly, I didn't know what myrelief position is when you
think about it.
For example, the only thingthat would save me from the
groin pain at the beginning ofjoining yeah uh is laying on my
stomach actually and beingpropped up on elbows and just
that.
So I just lay on my stomach alot for like two hours a day,
like 15 minutes, and then Istand up and then walk a little
(25:45):
and then I and I was on mystomach a lot, like maybe two,
like two months every day like alot, a lot, a lot, a lot
Because no pain.
When I'm on my stomach, there'sno pain, so it makes sense Like
something good is happeningRight.
Keep doing what feels good,basically, yeah, and I have the
(26:05):
full picture now to show you.
Okay.
Speaker 4 (26:08):
So it's going to ask if you have a post, mri.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Yes, so this is my disc before the high-performance
spine.
So this is my disc before thehigh-performance spine and it
actually looked like that for, Ithink, 10 years.
So I have one from 2012.
And then I have one from 2022.
It's exactly the same anddiagnosis was the same.
(26:31):
So L5S1 disc herniation,protrusion, and then some other
kind of things, and this is mydisc after the high performance
spine program and I'm actuallypain-free.
And now even my diagnosis haschanged.
It's not a permeated discprotrusion anymore.
(26:54):
Now it just says it's like alittle bit degenerated and
you're good to go.
I really want to go back tothose three surgeons and show
them this.
I still didn't do that, but Iwill probably at some point.
Speaker 4 (27:06):
You've mentioned that you guys work with people who
have had failed surgery and theyare in a lot of pain.
What about people who are likepost-surgery, who don't want to
do physical therapy or, sorry,their doctors don't want them to
do physical, because not everysurgeon sends their patients for
physical therapy right aftersurgery?
(27:28):
Do you work with patients right?
Speaker 1 (27:31):
after surgery, or do you want them to wait?
All right, so that makes sense.
Yes, it makes sense.
So after the surgery, surgeonsusually do recommend physical
therapy, but after some resttime, which is usually like,
yeah, six to eight weeks.
So you need to wait six toeight weeks.
As soon as the surgeon approvesthat, the patient can start
(27:56):
exercising, they can join ourprogram, they can join the
high-performance spine programand we will get them better,
even if they still have pain,because a lot of people actually
, after the surgery they stillhave pain, it's not gone and a
lot of people actuallyre-herniate their disc again
because it's weakened, theydon't stop moving incorrectly,
(28:19):
they still put a lot of pressureon that disc because they don't
know how to move better andthey're not strong enough to do
the activities they do on adaily basis and their disc
herniates again.
I had a guy actually from Serbiaand and I talked with him, uh,
about the hyperform spineprogram and he said, yeah, okay,
(28:41):
I'm going to be careful, thingslike that.
And then, uh, I think I likegave him a short tutorial on
what he needs to do, becausehe's the same case as me and
he's the same faulty movementpatterns and everything like
that, and he was like okay, andhe did it for two weeks and he
was getting better, like hispain went down by like five, so
he was like three out of ten inpain.
(29:02):
And then he started paintinghis house himself and he painted
his entire house, which is likea big house, and next morning
he's like I'm in pain again.
Speaker 4 (29:13):
Yeah, no kidding.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
No kidding, no-transcript, all symptoms gone
now, unless I really overdosomething.
For example, my older kid is 50kilograms heavy and when he
(29:37):
wants me to lift him and I'm notreally careful, like I need to
brace and then hip hinge andthen grab him and then I can
lift him.
But if I just kind of lift himlike that, yeah, then I can feel
some issues and it's always thegroin region.
So that's, that's like it's,but it's not like pain, it's
(30:00):
like a reminder, it's like don'tdo that.
Basically like it's just kindof like a little bit like a zap.
And then I'm pain-free.
But I still do all the basicactivities that I learned from
the program.
So I still practice.
I have a daily routine.
I use half an hour of my day todo the core exercises for my
(30:26):
faulty movement pattern.
I still walk every day.
I still invest in a qualitychair.
I don't sit in like some oldchair.
I have a chair that supports mylower back.
I have a stand-up desk.
I'm still being careful, but Ican do whatever I want and I'm
pain-free, which is the mostimportant thing here.
Speaker 4 (30:45):
Yeah.
Is there anything that you'relimited in doing, that you
wouldn't do, or do you feel 100%certain that your spine health
is great and you can do whateveryou want?
Speaker 1 (30:55):
So, for example, I wouldn't go back to working that
initial job of pushing heavyrocks uphill, because that's how
everything started it doesn'tmean I cannot do it now, like it
doesn't mean that I just won'tI just won't.
It doesn't mean I cannot do itnow, like it doesn't mean that I
just want.
I just want, I just want forfor any amount of money.
I actually I won't go backthere, yeah, so that I won't do
things like that.
I won't do uh heavy physicalwork if unless I really have to.
(31:20):
And uh, I had some like anotherexperience.
It was uh actually in the usa,so on, uh, on 2019, this was
like the fourth episode of backpain.
I didn't.
I can tell you this story.
So I went on a program to workon alaska in the fishing
industry and I was on an islandthat was this close to Russia
(31:44):
actually, with 2000 bears and 32permanent residents, and the
shifts there are 16, 16, 16, 12hours, and then it goes back to
16, 16, 16, 12.
And because you're on an islandwith no internet connection,
(32:05):
like I couldn't see the picturesof my kids or just communicate
almost ever.
You kind of want that, you wantto work.
Speaker 4 (32:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
And when I went there I was pain-free, I flew for
like 22 hours, I was seated,everything was fine.
And then they saw me on Alaskaand they saw I'm a big guy, I'm
a tall guy, I'm six foot three.
So they gave me like a heavy,it's like a suit for the freezer
and there's a really bigfreezer where the fish go to
(32:33):
freeze and then they ship themand I had to push like it looks
like a cage, it's really big,but it's like they told me it's
like 500 pounds, but I don'tknow what pounds are, so I
pounds, but I don't know whatpounds are, so I don't care.
So I was throwing those cageslike this goodness right,
pushing them in the fridge, yeah, for 16 hours and five days in
(32:56):
I got the groin pain and I wentto the doctor at uh, I actually
waited for him to fly over forlike three or four days because
we were on an island and thedoctor did like a hernia check.
He thought I had the like ahernia hernia on my stomach and
he said, no, everything is fine,you're just going to get to
(33:16):
work a lighter job.
So I was switched from thatposition to do something lighter
, like some pallets that werenot 500 pounds heavy but like 30
.
So I survived.
That that's the point.
And also in the beginning Ididn't tell you this, but in the
beginning, when I, when I feltthat growing pain back in 2012
(33:38):
and onwards those episodes, theywould always refer me to the
doctor that checks the maleparts, kind of, yeah, because
the pain was there.
It kind of made sense and Ialways came clear like I, they
do all the tests, everythingthat there is the scans, the
blood tests, everything and theydidn't know why I felt pain in
(34:00):
there.
And the moment I spoke with drjeff, he told me it's coming
from the disc.
And nobody here at least nobodyhere and that doctor on Alaska
didn't conclude that, didn'tknow that the pain can be coming
from the L5-S1 disc herniationin the back.
But it actually cannot.
It's a rare case but it cannot.
Speaker 4 (34:22):
That's great.
I'm so glad that you are livingyour life again and that you're
pain-free.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
That's great, I'm so glad that you are living your
life again and that you'repain-free.
Speaker 4 (34:29):
Thank you.
So if somebody wanted to workdirectly with you, do you have
like a personal website, orwould they go to
highperformancespinecom?
Speaker 1 (34:37):
No highperformancespinecom.
And then I'm one of the coachesinside the program.
There's many more coaches, butall the coaches that work for dr
jeff, that work with peopleinside the program, dr jeff
himself also works with peoplein the program.
Uh, they had back pain and youcan see their stories on our
website.
I've found that calm.
(34:58):
You can see, andrew, that's mystory.
It's a 30 minute story but youcan watch it and I'm speaking
with dr jeff directly and he'sasking me questions, like you
are now, and I'm telling himeverything that's happened.
Speaker 4 (35:09):
So, yeah, Great, that's awesome.
Do you have any last-minutewisdom that you want to share
with the listeners?
Speaker 1 (35:18):
Be mindful.
So this is an issue that can befixed.
Not every discarnation requiressurgery.
Actually, surgeons are pushingfor surgery way too much, in my
opinion.
My experience is I visitedthree of them and one
chiropractor who's not evendoing surgeries and they all
said my disc will never go backin.
And that kind of scared me atthe time and, as I said, I was
(35:41):
prepared to sell my apartment,go back living with my parents
because I need to have thesurgery, lose my job and then
the two months recovery periodand who's going to take care of
my kids?
Wife alone, but that's hard.
Yeah.
Yeah, so just be mindful.
And if you can schedule theconsultation with high
(36:02):
performance, fine, we can helpyou.
If we can't help you, we're notgoing to let you in the program
.
You need to qualify for theprogram actually.
Speaker 4 (36:15):
Andrew, thank you so much for being willing to come
on the show and share your story.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
Thank you too.
Speaker 4 (36:21):
I'm sure it'll be a hope and some insight to our
listeners.
I hope, and if you are alistener and you have a positive
story of recovery from aserious back or neck injury,
head over to bedbackbeyondcomand click share your story.
I'd love to include your voiceon the show.
Bye, andrew.
But, as I said in my own experience, I was not
letting my disc heal because Iwas panicking and I was driving
around and I was bending all thewrong ways and I was exercising
without knowing which exercisesare actually good for me and
which ones are bad for me.
I didn't know how to sit, Ididn't know how to drive
properly, I didn't know what mylift position is.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Welcome to Bed Back and Beyond, sharing positive
stories of recovery from seriousback or neck injury.
Your host is CK, a fellowchampion who draws on her own
experience with herniated discsurgery.
Join her as she talks withothers who have overcome the
physical and emotional trauma ofa painful injury and discover
(00:44):
for yourself how you can findhope and encouragement in
recovery.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
Hi Andrew.
Thank you so much for joiningme on this episode of Bed, Back
and Beyond.
Before we dive into your backinjury, how about you tell us a
little bit about yourself?
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Thanks for having me.
So my name is Andrew.
Once you translate it toEnglish, because I'm from Serbia
and my name is Andrea, but itdoes translate to Andrew.
So I had.
The first episode with Backpainwas 12 years ago, when I was
like 22 years old.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
Were you still in?
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Serbia.
Yes, I was in serbia, butactually my grandfather worked
in italy.
So because I was a student atthe time and didn't make any
money and he's a constructionworker, he asked me to go on
like summer job to work with him.
And he does uh, he builds,builds walls from rocks, very
(01:46):
big rocks.
So that's how I injured myself.
Initially it was by pushingreally big rocks uphill.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
How old were you at that time?
Speaker 1 (01:56):
I was 22 years old 12 years ago, so that was not
smart to go from being asedentary student who plays
games to work a heavyconstruction job yeah, well,
you're 22, so you probablyfigured out.
Speaker 4 (02:12):
There was no problem.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Yes, yes, I thought I was young and I can just push
rocks uphill, no issues.
Uh, so like 10 days into thatjob I started feeling the pain,
like my back went out.
You probably know the feelingis when you have that like a zap
in the lower back and then paindown the leg.
But also I experienced aterrible groin pain and it hits
(02:35):
me in the male region.
Yeah.
So I didn't know at the timewhere that was coming from.
So of course I stopped working,I rested for like two or three
days, but the pain was comingfrom.
So of course I stopped working,I rested for like two or three
days, but the pain was stillhere.
And then I traveled back toSerbia.
I got the MRI and I got thisimage, this exact image.
I actually printed it out sothat you can see it.
(02:56):
So this is my wait it's theother way.
Yeah, l5s1.
So this is how it looked likeeven 12 years ago.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
That looks a lot like mine.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Yeah, this MRI was actually taken four years ago.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
Oh, okay.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
I have an MRI 12 years ago, six years ago, four
years ago and a year ago and Iwill tell you through the story
because that's what you want tohear.
So I I flew back, like I cameback to serbia and I got the mri
and the doctor told me I havelike a disc herniation, alpha vs
one, uh protrusion, and Ishould go and get some shot like
(03:38):
a medicine and the rest for twoweeks.
And that actually worked.
So I was painfree after twoweeks of resting and like a
cortisone-based stop.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
Can I ask you what's the health insurance situation
like in Serbia at that time?
Speaker 1 (03:53):
It's free, like healthcare here is free, but
it's not really good, but it'sfree.
So you can just go to thedoctor.
You need to wait in line forlike four hours and then you get
treated on some level.
So it's not bad.
It's not like the USA it youneed to wait in line for like
four hours and then you gettreated on some level.
Okay, so it's not.
It's not bad, it's not like theUSA, it's not like that I will
treat better because it's free.
(04:13):
So two or three years after thatepisode, I was lifting
something heavy again I think itwas like a refrigerator and my
back went out again.
So I was back on the sameprocedure that I learned the
first time.
I took the shots and I restedfor two weeks and my pain was
gone.
It's great.
And then I continued to doheavy jobs and then I ended up
(04:39):
in the IT industry and I wasrequired to sit a lot in the
office and then also drive a lotto meet with the clients all
over Serbia.
So I was always seated, andwhen I come back home, my wife
was not driving at the time, soshe and the kids would want to
go somewhere, so I end updriving again.
(04:59):
I drive 20 hours a day or 18hours a day and then I I sleep a
little late, then I drive againor sit.
So four years ago or three and ahalf years ago, my back went
out again.
It was the same situation.
I bent forward and I waspicking up something from the
(05:20):
back of my car.
It was like one kilogram heavy,not very heavy, like a bag,
yeah.
So I just bent to pick thatsomething and my back of my car
it was like one kilogram heavy,not very heavy, like a baby,
yeah.
So I just bent to pick thatsomething and my back went out.
I I feel the zap in the lowerback.
Pain goes down the leg.
So I tried the same, like Iknow what to do in these
situations and it goes away intwo weeks.
So I tried laying in bed.
(05:41):
I took two weeks off from work.
My wife is a nurse, so shegives me the shot and it's like
three shots in a week, somethinglike that.
Like every two days you get theshot.
It's for pain.
Speaker 4 (05:54):
Was that a four-day shot?
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Yeah, it's just to lower the inflammation.
It does nothing, I know.
Now Two weeks went by and I wasstill in pain.
So I called my boss at the timeand I told him I'm still in
pain, like I can't walk.
My pain is eight out of 10.
I can't get out, get out of thebed.
What do I do?
And he suggested some expensivetreatment for me at the time,
(06:19):
which was the.
It's the best clinic in theregion where I live here and
they have those decompressiontables, so they put you on a
table and the machine kind ofstretches your spine.
Yeah.
On certain pattern, kind of.
So my boss at the time actuallyfunded me to go to have 15 of
(06:40):
those treatments like 15 days Ibelieve it was and it was really
expensive.
It was like my monthly salaryor something like that.
So good boss.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
So I went on those treatments and I remember how it
kind of goes.
They put you for like 40minutes on that table.
It decompresses your spine.
Then the physical therapist onthere made me, uh, pull my knees
to my chest oh, okay which isreally bad for me, but this is
that I didn't know at the time?
(07:11):
yeah, you don't usually and thenthey made me rotate my knees,
which is also really bad.
Discs in the lower back don'tlike rotation, but I didn't know
at the time and then I go getthe laser for like 15 minutes
and then I go get some electricsocks through the leg okay, I
don't know how to call thattherapy and then the treatment
(07:32):
is over and of course I had todrive for 20 minutes to go to
get that treatment and thenafter the treatment I feel
really terrible.
I have to drive back home andin.
In those 15 days I actually gotmuch worse, much, much, much
worse.
And when I told them in theclinic this is not working, like
I'm not getting better, theysuggested to buy another 15
(07:55):
treatments.
And I said I'm not doing this,Like I'm not doing this.
So then I went to physicaltherapy, like the classic
physical therapy.
I thought, okay, robots are nothelping, I can afford physical
therapy, like the classicphysical therapy.
I thought, okay, robots are nothelping, I can afford physical
therapy, so let's try somephysical therapy and is this
still in serbia at the time?
Yeah, yeah, okay, I'm still inserbia right now oh, you are
(08:15):
okay yeah, uh.
So I went to pt and I rememberfirst there was a like a 22 year
old female physical therapistdoes better, I'm just saying and
she made me touch my toes,which is also really bad for me.
I'll explain later why, becausenow I understand and I was
(08:38):
touching my toes and she wouldtell me, uh, like I would
explain to her, this is causingme a spike in the pain level
right and I was actually walkingto that physical therapy like
something started to click hereat the time.
So I was not driving to thephysical therapy.
I walked for 15 minutes and Iwould feel better when I when I
(08:58):
arrived there, and then shewould make me to uh touch toes,
which I didn't like, and I toldher this is not good, and she
told me to push through the pain.
Now I understand that this is areally bad advice.
You don't push through the painwhen you have a disc-related
issue in the lower back.
So I did.
Two weeks of PT Pain is still10 out of 10 or 8 out of 10.
(09:21):
And all the so in the last 12years uh, well, not 12, 10 when
I was in pain I'm not in painanymore.
I found the solution uh.
So all the time while I washaving uh disc related issues in
the lower right, I would getthat terrible pain in the groin
region and that's like it's.
(09:42):
It's really really not pleasantat all.
It disables me completely, likeI can only fall down, curl up
and not move yeah, I think thegroin pain is considered a red
flag.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
Like usually, groin pain will say go see a surgeon
yes, which is what I did.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Uh.
So, uh, during that physicaltherapy, that groin pain started
appearing more and morefrequently.
It only lasts for 10 to 15seconds, but it's terrible, and
I later I understood that it isconnected to the l5s1 specific
disc herniation, but it's onlylike five percent of l5s1 disc
herniations have that issue, andI actually managed to meet
(10:22):
another person who had thatissue.
I'll tell you more about that.
Uh, so, after the physicaltherapy, uh, it didn't work.
I went to visit chiropractors.
So chiropractors would bend mesome tried dry needling okay, so
they put a needle, yeah, tokind of relax the muscles.
(10:42):
Nothing worked nothing, yeah.
Then a friend told me about aspiritual healer, a lady that
lives on a hill, and that ladyfixed her wife's, his wife's
lower back issues.
Okay.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
This is a first.
I went there as well.
I went there as well.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
I went there as well.
Of course.
I drove for two hours to gothere, sure Well when you're in
pain, you want to try anything,right.
A really old lady lives in aclay house.
If you know what a clay houseis?
It's not made of bricks, it'smade out of clay, so it's from
like 1900s or something.
It's a really old house and sheactually relieved the pressure
of my nerve.
(11:17):
Like I went there.
I drove for two hours, so I'min more pain now.
Then she would just I don'tknow pass me something.
I don't know what she did, butit was like a chiropractor
approach, something like that,and when I stood up, actually my
pain was relieved, like thesciatica was almost gone, and I
(11:38):
said thank you.
And then I drove two hours backand I was back in the same pain
before because I'm drivingagain, okay.
So then I drove two hours backand I was back in the same pain
before because I'm driving again, okay.
So then I found out about thebest chiropractor in the country
.
He lives again two hours frommy house.
I need to drive and he has abook and I read his book and I
went on there and I brought myMRI multiple ones and I brought
(12:04):
cash pay him because he's gonnafix me, right.
I called right, yeah.
He said yeah, come on.
So I I went to thatchiropractor and, uh, he took my
mri, like the cd, actually putit in the computer, and then he
saw, and then he was looking,he's looking and looking and he
said I'm not touching you andI'm like like what do you mean?
Like you can't fix me, youdon't want to fix me.
Speaker 4 (12:26):
I just drove two hours.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
I just drove two hours.
You told me to come, like whyare you not fixing me?
Fix me.
And he said no.
He explained something which Idon't know how true that is, but
he said because my disc is kindof going downwards here.
Speaker 4 (12:44):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
I, my disc is kind of going downwards here.
Okay, my disc requires surgery.
So he said, because it kind ofgoes downwards, you need surgery
.
Like go have the surgery, buysome cream so you don't get the
scar issues, I don't know someexpensive cream from him.
And then then, after I get thesurgery, I can get back to him
so he can kind of fix me or fixme more or I don't know.
Tell me which stretches to dosomething like that.
(13:11):
And I said, okay, let's govisit some surgeons.
So I went to two surgeons thatare free.
As I explained, serbia has thefree healthcare system, so you
just need to wait a lot.
And then you visit the surgeonand the surgeon told me that I
need to have the surgery, andthis really angers me.
It's not okay.
(13:31):
So this will never go back in,they told me.
So whatever I do, whichevertreatments I try, this will
never go back inside and I willalways be in pain.
And then they have those kindof scary stories like your nerve
will shorten.
Oh, that's impossible.
But I haven't heard that.
Yeah, I understand, yeah, I didso.
(13:53):
My nerve will shorten and thenI will limp for the rest of my
life.
I don't think this is like youcan't find this in any book or
anywhere, but that's what thesurgeon told me.
And then I actually went to theprivate medical care, uh, which
charges money for the surgerybut yeah, uh, so, and he
(14:14):
actually had an mri, so Iactually took another mri on
there, so he already got somemoney.
And then he told me yeah, so,uh, you need to get the surgery.
If you pay here, which was notcheap it was €3,000 for the
surgery, which was like a lot ofmy monthly income, maybe four
(14:36):
or five months, something likethat so that was really
expensive for me.
But still, I sell my car, fixmy back, go back to work.
What am I going to do?
I'm soon going to get fired.
If I get fired, I lose my house.
If I lose my house, I lose mywife and kids.
There's no way out.
And I'm already six months inpain continuously during this
(14:57):
journey.
Yeah, so my last episode wasactually eight months of
constant pain and it was eighteight out of ten to ten out of
ten, and whenever the growingpain happens, it's just like I'm
done, like that.
Speaker 4 (15:10):
Yeah, so you're pretty seriously you're pretty
seriously considering sellingyour car.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Yes, I even considered selling my apartment.
Oh, because after the like, I'mgoing to lose my job.
Yeah, that boss was verytolerable.
But now I'm six months at homeand I work in the IT industry,
but like sales department andall it was Corona time at the
time, so people were workingfrom home, so I had a little bit
of luck, yeah, but all thedevelopers, like there's 16
(15:39):
there was like 16 of us, I don'tknow and 15 developers get got
back in the office and I'm likethe sales guy working from home,
like it didn't make any sense.
Speaker 4 (15:48):
I, I could sense it that I'm going to lose my job
eventually yeah, this pain is sointense though People don't
understand it unless they'recurious.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
Unless they don't know what they're talking about.
That's why I mentioned a reallyyoung and healthy physical
therapist.
Pushed me to touch my toes.
He didn't have any back pain.
Private office surgeon that'sthe third surgeon I visited also
pushed the surgery because hewanted my money.
And he he explained like, uh,he's very experienced and if I
(16:23):
don't pay and go the free route,I don't know who's going to
operate on me.
So it might be some youngsurgeon, yeah.
So this is why I shouldn'tchoose the free surgery and pay
for his surgery.
And he has like a modern officekind of space.
You can stay there for therecovery time and things like
that.
And I asked him so the MRI justdone, freshly done in his
(16:48):
office.
Okay, so you're going to cutout the disc, I'm going to show
it again.
So you're going to cut out thispart, I'm going to show it
again.
So you're going to cut out thispart.
He said, yes, this is the disccactomy, I cannot pronounce it,
well, but that's the surgery,right, so he's going to cut the
disc.
And I said, okay, what happensafter?
(17:09):
And he said, well, you'reprobably going to lose the pain,
but then this disc above willherniate next.
So he told me that.
Speaker 4 (17:22):
Oh, because of the discectomy.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Because this disc is going to be weakened because
they're going to go in there andthey're going to cut a part out
of it, and then this disc aboveis going to get weakened and
it's going to take double theload.
And then that one will usuallygo next, which is actually the
(17:45):
case if you kind of read aboutthe surgeries.
So I said no deal, I don't likethat deal.
I want a permanent solution tomy problem.
I don't want to visit you everytwo years and give you a lot of
money.
That doesn't make any sense.
So I was now uh lost, prettymuch like I.
I'm expecting to lose my job.
(18:05):
I am expecting to lose myfamily.
I'm expecting, expecting tosell my apartment in the big
city, go back to live with myparents.
I don't know what I'm going todo.
And I stumbled upon, uh, drjeff winterheimer's program on
youtube.
Dr jeff was on youtube, there'ssome videos on there and you had
him as a guest on your podcastI did yes, so I was started to
(18:30):
research about dr jeff and whathe was saying and he was saying
PT doesn't work because of this.
It actually made sense to mebecause I experienced physical
therapy.
Yes.
Then he has a video on why thedecompression tables don't work.
Okay, makes sense.
I was looking at those videoslearning more and then it all
(18:52):
just made sense to me and Idecided to actually join his
program.
It's the High Performance PineProgram.
So long story short, but inthree weeks into his program my
pain went to two out of 10.
Wow, and in three months intohis program I was pain-free.
Three years after the program,which is now, I'm still
(19:15):
pain-free and I'm sitting rightnow, as you can see.
So why is the program differentthan all the other treatments?
It just completely changed myperspective on how to look at
this problem.
Day one, when you join theprogram, get to, you find out
(19:36):
about your faulty movementpatterns.
So which bias you are.
So, for example, uh, I'mextension bias, which means that
my disc herniated in a way thatif I extend my back, okay it
it's.
It kind of gets better a littlebit, it goes back inside a
little bit.
It doesn't cause me pain.
And when I flex, which is moveforward a little bit, I get
(20:00):
increasing pain.
This is why touching the toes,driving places and just being in
flexion all the time whichmakes sense, like my journey was
bending lifting sitting.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
Right Driving for 20 hours.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Yes, it just clicked and the program is really
complex.
It took a long time for Dr Jeffto kind of devise the program,
but every day you just seecontent and you know what you
need to do.
You download a spreadsheet likedo this in the morning, do this
in the afternoon, do this inthe evening.
You just do the work and you'llget better.
It's it's, it's that simplewhen you know what you need to
(20:37):
do did you have to fly over ordid?
Speaker 4 (20:40):
were you able to join his program online?
Speaker 1 (20:43):
online, so the program is entirely online.
So I I found out about theprogram on youtube.
I was in serbia, uh, I joinedthe program by scheduling a call
and then, after the call, I wasin the program and I just did
the work and I got better andactually, after all of that
(21:05):
getting better, I now work forDr Jeff.
So now I'm one of the coachesinside the High Performance
Spine program.
That's why I wrote Andrew HighPerformance Spine on there.
If people can see that I don'tknow, and there's a logo right
behind me and if you can see it.
Speaker 4 (21:20):
Only barely yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
So I can say that Dr Jeff saved my life twice, and
the first time was when he curedmy back pain and the second
time was when I actually startedworking for him.
He gave me a job.
So in the middle of the program, my boss at the time called me
and said and I remember it wassunday, uh, monday morning you
(21:45):
need to come to work.
He tolerated me for six monthsright so he just said monday
morning everybody is in theoffice, you're the sales guy.
Like morning, everybody's inthe office.
You're the sales guy, you needto be in the office or on the
field meeting people.
So I said okay, and I went thenext day, monday morning, and I
(22:08):
quit my job.
Oh, okay, because I was juststarted with the
high-performance buying programand I was just started to
getting some relief and I wasnot going back to the previous
life, you can say it like that.
I was not going back to driving, I was not going back to
sitting at the time.
(22:30):
While I get stronger to toleratethe load of those activities, I
can drive.
Now I can drive for 20 hoursagain.
I can sit for all day long if Iwant to.
I don't.
I can stand up desk now and Iwalk when I need to walk, like
every two hours I go for a shortwalk.
I don't sit for eight hoursstraight because that caused me
the issue that I have.
So another interesting thing iswhen I joined the Head for a
(22:55):
Science program, I started tolearn and consume and learn and
I figured out wait, if I onlystayed at home and didn't
actually drive to get all thosetreatments I might have like get
better just by not driving,like just by not driving Right,
which is not the case, but likeI wouldn't get worse, at least
(23:16):
Like I think I wouldn't getworse.
Speaker 4 (23:18):
Undoing all the progress.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
If I only knew to like walk around and do all the
tips that I learned in the HighPerformance Line program.
But like you can't help.
Speaker 4 (23:33):
So how long would you say to a person, try this
program, and if you don't getany relief within like three
weeks or three months, then it'snot working.
Do you have like a timeline?
Speaker 1 (23:48):
Well, it depends.
So I have been a coach forquite some time now and I have
seen people join the program whohad pain for two weeks and who
had pain for 40 years.
I have coached a person who was85 years old and I also coach a
person who is 16 years old.
So it depends on the actualinjury and how long they had it.
(24:13):
The longer they had the issue,the longer it will take to
reactivate the muscles and getthem pain-free.
But usually the the smartestthing you can do, in my opinion,
is to at least join for onemonth, see how it goes, uh,
before doing the surgery,because I talk with people who
(24:36):
had multiple failed surgeries ona daily basis and they are
still in pain.
Speaker 4 (24:41):
Right.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
And the fusion surgery is the hardest to treat
because it's just like a lot ofand we have people with multiple
failed fusion surgeries.
Join the program and weactually get them better, but it
will take a year.
It takes a year to heal thedisc.
This is just the process of howlong it takes and the discs I
(25:02):
actually want to heal.
But, as I said in my my ownexperience, I was not letting my
disc heal because I waspanicking and I was driving
around and I was bending all thewrong ways and I was exercising
without knowing which exercisesare actually good for me and
which ones are bad for me.
I didn't know how to sit, Ididn't know how to drive
(25:23):
properly, I didn't know what myrelief position is when you
think about it.
For example, the only thingthat would save me from the
groin pain at the beginning ofjoining yeah uh is laying on my
stomach actually and beingpropped up on elbows and just
that.
So I just lay on my stomach alot for like two hours a day,
like 15 minutes, and then Istand up and then walk a little
(25:45):
and then I and I was on mystomach a lot, like maybe two,
like two months every day like alot, a lot, a lot, a lot
Because no pain.
When I'm on my stomach, there'sno pain, so it makes sense Like
something good is happeningRight.
Keep doing what feels good,basically, yeah, and I have the
(26:05):
full picture now to show you.
Okay.
Speaker 4 (26:08):
So it's going to ask if you have a post, mri.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Yes, so this is my disc before the high-performance
spine.
So this is my disc before thehigh-performance spine and it
actually looked like that for, Ithink, 10 years.
So I have one from 2012.
And then I have one from 2022.
It's exactly the same anddiagnosis was the same.
(26:31):
So L5S1 disc herniation,protrusion, and then some other
kind of things, and this is mydisc after the high performance
spine program and I'm actuallypain-free.
And now even my diagnosis haschanged.
It's not a permeated discprotrusion anymore.
(26:54):
Now it just says it's like alittle bit degenerated and
you're good to go.
I really want to go back tothose three surgeons and show
them this.
I still didn't do that, but Iwill probably at some point.
Speaker 4 (27:06):
You've mentioned that you guys work with people who
have had failed surgery and theyare in a lot of pain.
What about people who are likepost-surgery, who don't want to
do physical therapy or, sorry,their doctors don't want them to
do physical, because not everysurgeon sends their patients for
physical therapy right aftersurgery?
(27:28):
Do you work with patients right?
Speaker 1 (27:31):
after surgery, or do you want them to wait?
All right, so that makes sense.
Yes, it makes sense.
So after the surgery, surgeonsusually do recommend physical
therapy, but after some resttime, which is usually like,
yeah, six to eight weeks.
So you need to wait six toeight weeks.
As soon as the surgeon approvesthat, the patient can start
(27:56):
exercising, they can join ourprogram, they can join the
high-performance spine programand we will get them better,
even if they still have pain,because a lot of people actually
, after the surgery they stillhave pain, it's not gone and a
lot of people actuallyre-herniate their disc again
because it's weakened, theydon't stop moving incorrectly,
(28:19):
they still put a lot of pressureon that disc because they don't
know how to move better andthey're not strong enough to do
the activities they do on adaily basis and their disc
herniates again.
I had a guy actually from Serbiaand and I talked with him, uh,
about the hyperform spineprogram and he said, yeah, okay,
(28:41):
I'm going to be careful, thingslike that.
And then, uh, I think I likegave him a short tutorial on
what he needs to do, becausehe's the same case as me and
he's the same faulty movementpatterns and everything like
that, and he was like okay, andhe did it for two weeks and he
was getting better, like hispain went down by like five, so
he was like three out of ten inpain.
(29:02):
And then he started paintinghis house himself and he painted
his entire house, which is likea big house, and next morning
he's like I'm in pain again.
Speaker 4 (29:13):
Yeah, no kidding.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
No kidding, no-transcript, all symptoms gone
now, unless I really overdosomething.
For example, my older kid is 50kilograms heavy and when he
(29:37):
wants me to lift him and I'm notreally careful, like I need to
brace and then hip hinge andthen grab him and then I can
lift him.
But if I just kind of lift himlike that, yeah, then I can feel
some issues and it's always thegroin region.
So that's, that's like it's,but it's not like pain, it's
(30:00):
like a reminder, it's like don'tdo that.
Basically like it's just kindof like a little bit like a zap.
And then I'm pain-free.
But I still do all the basicactivities that I learned from
the program.
So I still practice.
I have a daily routine.
I use half an hour of my day todo the core exercises for my
(30:26):
faulty movement pattern.
I still walk every day.
I still invest in a qualitychair.
I don't sit in like some oldchair.
I have a chair that supports mylower back.
I have a stand-up desk.
I'm still being careful, but Ican do whatever I want and I'm
pain-free, which is the mostimportant thing here.
Speaker 4 (30:45):
Yeah.
Is there anything that you'relimited in doing, that you
wouldn't do, or do you feel 100%certain that your spine health
is great and you can do whateveryou want?
Speaker 1 (30:55):
So, for example, I wouldn't go back to working that
initial job of pushing heavyrocks uphill, because that's how
everything started it doesn'tmean I cannot do it now, like it
doesn't mean that I just won'tI just won't.
It doesn't mean I cannot do itnow, like it doesn't mean that I
just want.
I just want, I just want forfor any amount of money.
I actually I won't go backthere, yeah, so that I won't do
things like that.
I won't do uh heavy physicalwork if unless I really have to.
(31:20):
And uh, I had some like anotherexperience.
It was uh actually in the usa,so on, uh, on 2019, this was
like the fourth episode of backpain.
I didn't.
I can tell you this story.
So I went on a program to workon alaska in the fishing
industry and I was on an islandthat was this close to Russia
(31:44):
actually, with 2000 bears and 32permanent residents, and the
shifts there are 16, 16, 16, 12hours, and then it goes back to
16, 16, 16, 12.
And because you're on an islandwith no internet connection,
(32:05):
like I couldn't see the picturesof my kids or just communicate
almost ever.
You kind of want that, you wantto work.
Speaker 4 (32:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
And when I went there I was pain-free, I flew for
like 22 hours, I was seated,everything was fine.
And then they saw me on Alaskaand they saw I'm a big guy, I'm
a tall guy, I'm six foot three.
So they gave me like a heavy,it's like a suit for the freezer
and there's a really bigfreezer where the fish go to
(32:33):
freeze and then they ship themand I had to push like it looks
like a cage, it's really big,but it's like they told me it's
like 500 pounds, but I don'tknow what pounds are, so I
pounds, but I don't know whatpounds are, so I don't care.
So I was throwing those cageslike this goodness right,
pushing them in the fridge, yeah, for 16 hours and five days in
(32:56):
I got the groin pain and I wentto the doctor at uh, I actually
waited for him to fly over forlike three or four days because
we were on an island and thedoctor did like a hernia check.
He thought I had the like ahernia hernia on my stomach and
he said, no, everything is fine,you're just going to get to
(33:16):
work a lighter job.
So I was switched from thatposition to do something lighter
, like some pallets that werenot 500 pounds heavy but like 30
.
So I survived.
That that's the point.
And also in the beginning Ididn't tell you this, but in the
beginning, when I, when I feltthat growing pain back in 2012
(33:38):
and onwards those episodes, theywould always refer me to the
doctor that checks the maleparts, kind of, yeah, because
the pain was there.
It kind of made sense and Ialways came clear like I, they
do all the tests, everythingthat there is the scans, the
blood tests, everything and theydidn't know why I felt pain in
(34:00):
there.
And the moment I spoke with drjeff, he told me it's coming
from the disc.
And nobody here at least nobodyhere and that doctor on Alaska
didn't conclude that, didn'tknow that the pain can be coming
from the L5-S1 disc herniationin the back.
But it actually cannot.
It's a rare case but it cannot.
Speaker 4 (34:22):
That's great.
I'm so glad that you are livingyour life again and that you're
pain-free.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
That's great, I'm so glad that you are living your
life again and that you'repain-free.
Speaker 4 (34:29):
Thank you.
So if somebody wanted to workdirectly with you, do you have
like a personal website, orwould they go to
highperformancespinecom?
Speaker 1 (34:37):
No highperformancespinecom.
And then I'm one of the coachesinside the program.
There's many more coaches, butall the coaches that work for dr
jeff, that work with peopleinside the program, dr jeff
himself also works with peoplein the program.
Uh, they had back pain and youcan see their stories on our
website.
I've found that calm.
(34:58):
You can see, andrew, that's mystory.
It's a 30 minute story but youcan watch it and I'm speaking
with dr jeff directly and he'sasking me questions, like you
are now, and I'm telling himeverything that's happened.
Speaker 4 (35:09):
So, yeah, Great, that's awesome.
Do you have any last-minutewisdom that you want to share
with the listeners?
Speaker 1 (35:18):
Be mindful.
So this is an issue that can befixed.
Not every discarnation requiressurgery.
Actually, surgeons are pushingfor surgery way too much, in my
opinion.
My experience is I visitedthree of them and one
chiropractor who's not evendoing surgeries and they all
said my disc will never go backin.
And that kind of scared me atthe time and, as I said, I was
(35:41):
prepared to sell my apartment,go back living with my parents
because I need to have thesurgery, lose my job and then
the two months recovery periodand who's going to take care of
my kids?
Wife alone, but that's hard.
Yeah.
Yeah, so just be mindful.
And if you can schedule theconsultation with high
(36:02):
performance, fine, we can helpyou.
If we can't help you, we're notgoing to let you in the program
.
You need to qualify for theprogram actually.
Speaker 4 (36:15):
Andrew, thank you so much for being willing to come
on the show and share your story.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
Thank you too.
Speaker 4 (36:21):
I'm sure it'll be a hope and some insight to our
listeners.
I hope, and if you are alistener and you have a positive
story of recovery from aserious back or neck injury,
head over to bedbackbeyondcomand click share your story.
I'd love to include your voiceon the show.
Bye, andrew.
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