February 28, 2025 • 32 mins
Small talk—love it or hate it, it’s everywhere. We explore why it exists, how it shapes our daily lives, and why some thrive on it while others (Will) cringe. Through engaging stories and psychological insights, we unpack its cultural nuances and hidden impact on relationships. Join us as we reflect on the power of brief exchanges, from awkward encounters to meaningful connections. Subscribe and be part of the conversation!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 2 (00:03):
okay, we're good the most important part of this
episode is that y'all are gonnasee will's face possibly no not
not impossibly it is on editingnope, no, you've, you have
Speaker 3 (00:15):
this mystery man and look at that hair.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
He cuts it himself, folks I'll say it, but it's also
well it's curly and out ofcontrol sometimes.
Have you met Clay and Claire?
I don't know.
It really works, fuck off.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
I'm not used to it.
I've had hair here in manyyears.
So I was hosting an event and Ihad a fancy thing at a country
club and I took Lila as my datefor the first time.
Aw, I was like you're oldenough now to go to these things
with me or whatever.
So she got all dressed up andwent.
I told her I was like you knowyour job is, if I'm on stage and
my hair starts like doingsomething, you got to give me a
(00:50):
signal.
I'll walk over to you at somepoint you can fix it.
And she did like an hour in andI was like all right, here you
go.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
And she did it like the no, no, panicky no, you
didn't you didn't do it.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
It's a really hard life, curly hair you have unruly
curls.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
I do have curly hair, but not to the level I used to
have really curly hair, Allright.
What are we talking about today?
Speaker 3 (01:16):
What we just did Okay .
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Small talk.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Mm.
Oh, love it.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Will's favorite, except you're good at it.
You really are good at it.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
I guess, I don't know , there are times I don't like
it.
It depends on the mood of it,but definitely like going to the
store and stuff.
That'll be my contribution tothis episode, just talking about
how much I hate going to thegrocery store.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Well, you do have that face.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Your disdain for the.
This is another outside episodeon the front porch, so you're
going to hear the birds chirping.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
And the dump truck.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Waving and the debris truck picking up the neighbor's
tree Debris truck?
Speaker 3 (02:01):
What kind of?
Speaker 1 (02:02):
You know we're.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Say we're in.
Oh, oh, I didn't know we had aGod I sound rude today.
I'm sorry.
Well, you are recovering.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
I've been ill.
I haven't made any small talkin days as I haven't left the
home very much.
Okay, Back to oh.
I know what I was going to say.
You must hate Trader Joe's.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
You know, I've really never been.
One time I like walked inbecause Lila was in there and I
was like I need to go in and gether because she's not coming
out, and that's it.
I've never been in Other thanthat I've never shopped there.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
Well, that's disappointing because it's
amazing.
It's amazing and I don't knowtheir training protocols, but I
think that they have to commenton one thing that you've
purchased and mention like howthey've prepared it or how they
love it.
And I'm always like, oh cool,you know, laura, would they'd
have Laura's phone number by theend of it.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
But we would.
I'd be like I can refer you toa therapist.
I'm willing to help you, giveyou a five point plan before I
leave the line.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
It is really weird when they a lot of cashiers do
that try to have talk with youabout the stuff you're buying.
It's like come on, now, come on.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
We don't want to be there anyways, you know.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
I kind of like it, I'm like into it, you know, I'm
like, oh, that's cool.
And also one of my like hopesfor 2025 was to be off my phone
when I'm checking out of places,to try and be a little bit more
engaged.
I mean, my life is busy and Idon't like talking on the phone
when I'm trying to interact withpeople.
Sometimes that happens, but itreally has opened up some
(03:37):
interesting dialect with youknow.
Just some back and forth withmy classic Publix girls.
They like to let me know whatreally is going on.
One of them's going through adivorce, obviously, and the
other one has got a problem withher son.
He's been dabbling in the drugsagain.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Let's all take a moment to say goodbye to the
debris truck, and that is whatit's called.
That is a debris truck.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
I didn't know.
I thought you were justfanzying it up.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
What it's called that is a debris.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
I didn't know I thought you were just a loud ass
truck.
Um okay, so we got this topicfrom listeners y'all voted for
it.
So here we are.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
If you love it, you hate it, it's your fault it's
like how we feel about smalltalk we love it and we hate it
oh, you see what he did there,yeah, and guess what goldilocks.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
I can kind of go either way, okay, depending on
the situation.
Uh huh.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
The guy that I do the radio show with.
He Loves it so much that hegoes to the store For hours On
purpose and does every aisleMultiple times and to have small
talk with people.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Well, that is called Starving to death.
That's actually what that'scalled.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
I'm telling you Psychopathic baby.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Emotionally maybe psychopath, but maybe just like
emotionally um, hungry.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
I'll let him know, you said so.
So diagnose them, okay.
So I think we need to talkabout some instances before we
get into like why we hate it andour deep thinkers and blah,
blah, blah.
Um, I can tell you, two weeksago I went to the dentist and I
have never in my life Even had acavity Never and I love going.
I'm not one of thoseanti-dentist people Because I've
(05:16):
never had anything bad happen.
I go get them cleaned.
See you in six months.
So you know the protocol is thedental hygienist comes in.
Why did you just write downface?
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Watch your face.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
Watch your face when you're telling a story, just so
we're clear this might have.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
You can't, and I'm allowed to write down whatever
the hell I want to write down.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
This is not about you .
It's like when my therapisttakes notes.
I'm like just say it Just tellme what you said.
Goldilocks really likes to makeeverything about herself.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
That's true actually.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
So, anyways, you know you get your teeth cleaned, the
dentist comes in and they sayif you have a problem or not, I
suppose, which I haven't had andthen they leave.
So this time the hygienistcomes in and gosh, this is going
to be a two part story, cause Ialso think I might be getting
scammed by the dentist whichwe'll get to, which I've heard
(06:09):
is actually popular.
But so she takes one look andshe's like do you brush every
day?
And I'm like, my God, yes.
And she was like do you floss?
And I was like, okay, you know,I can be honest, I could
probably floss more.
I know everybody lies to theirdentist and I was like is
something?
Speaker 2 (06:25):
wrong.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
And she was like you have some swelling, your gums
are swollen, and she was likeusually that's from lack of
brushing.
And I was like, well, I brush,I'm like starting to like sweat,
and I was like any otherpossibilities.
She was like some.
And she was like no dietarychanges, big life change.
I'm like no, like everything'sfine.
So then she's like I'll beright back, I'll go get the
(06:47):
dentist and I'm like oh, like,are my teeth about to fall out?
So she comes back with him andshe's like see, they haven't
even cleaned them yet, okay, andhe said it's one of two things.
Do you take supplements?
And I was, yes, I do, I wastaking.
I've taken new supplementslately.
(07:08):
Could that be it?
And here, if you take a lot ofsupplements, minerals will stay
in your mouth.
It can cause gum inflammation.
Okay, and he said or, it doeslook like early, the early part
of pregnancy, excuse me, and soso I'm not pregnant.
Um, found out pretty quicklyafter this at homewood pharmacy
(07:31):
and I so loudly was like, whichdoes it look more like?
He's like well, I can't tellyou that and I'm like mother
fucker.
Okay, so I have to sit therethrough the whole teeth cleaning
, which talk about small talk,because then the hygienist is
like it's all gonna be fine.
You're, it's probably thesupplements and I'm like what do
(07:52):
you think?
it is, you know, and like I justwanted, another point in my
life where I was ready to dothis again okay and then, as
we're scheduling my appointment,because she's like what are you
gonna do the rest day?
And in my head I'm like I'mabout to go get a pregnancy test
is what I'm about to do andcall my husband.
But she was sketching.
She's like guess we'll see youin six months.
And I was like fuck off.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Janet, you know like OK.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
So I called Andy probably 30 times and he didn't
answer, which is a blessing.
And he didn't answer, which isa blessing, and because at that
point went into a pharmacy, wentinto a coffee shop, used their
bathroom, bought a latte and wasable to treat patients
effectively at my office therest of the day.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Love it.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
But who would say that?
They should have said it'sprobably supplements.
And then let me figure out onmy own time.
Yes, If I was pregnant.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
I mean they're a medical professional.
They're not a gynecologist, butthey're I don't know.
What if it's the opposite?
What if they we're like weshouldn't mention that to her,
and then turns out you werepregnant and went another three
weeks or four weeks withoutknowing I would have never
blamed it on the dentist.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
I would have never been like you know.
Who should have informed me?
Dr Macbeth at Shades CreekDental.
Okay, I would have never evenknown that it was a possibility.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
So where your filler small talk was supposed to be.
Instead, you had to be askingabout real life things like do
you think I'm pregnant?
Speaker 3 (09:27):
The hygienist was basically my emotional support
dog and life coach, for I waslike about how much longer do
you think it's going to take?
And she was like I'll get youout of here in 20 minutes.
I was like, okay, no problem.
Like I was just sitting therelike there was no talk happening
.
Who can talk anyways?
During that she just probablysaw, like tears in her eyes, my
(09:48):
favorite thing is that they tryto talk to you.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
They try.
I'm like listen, guys, why arewe?
Please don't make me try tohave a conversation with you
while your fingers are in mymouth and you're like scraping
whatever off my teeth.
I don't like that.
I'm so weird.
It's the one place I thinksmall talk should be off limits.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
I think the weirdest part of the worst part of that
story is that they assumepossibly you weren't brushing
your teeth every day.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Also rude.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
I was so offended she's like getting all the way
to the gum line.
I was like well, I would assumeso, as a full 38 years has gone
by with only perfect dentalreports.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
So I was like who's not brushing their teeth
multiple times a day?
Speaker 2 (10:30):
That's still going to a dentist every six months,
like that's my point, or evenjust I mean for the most part, I
keep touching my teeth.
I know.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
I'm like, I'm like checking, like do am I okay?
But I will say cause.
Then I did a lot of research.
So if you are listening and youtake a lot of supplements, it's
only things with heavy minerals.
So I would assume, like if youhave more food based or like
magnesium and things like that,it thickens your saliva.
Sorry if that's gross and ifyou do not really floss I got a
water flosser after thisincident.
He was like you don't have tostop taking the supplements, you
(11:03):
just have to like really, getin there, and I was like yes,
sir.
And now there's a toothbrush inmy car and one in my office.
Well, now I'm like.
I'm like he's.
They will never question if I'mpregnant, brushing my teeth or
taking supplements again and inthis moment?
Speaker 2 (11:19):
well, do you feel like?
Is this revealing that Claireis a bit of an overachiever?
Speaker 3 (11:24):
That's not today's topic.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Yeah and not reveal no.
You knew yeah sure.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Okay, well, here's what I think about Small Talk.
I think that we have a coupledifferent camps.
We got the avoided at all costcamp.
We have the people who are likein the right setting.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Wait, what do you mean?
Avoid it at all costs?
Explain before you move on.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Well, I think that in my experience with people who
struggle with small talk, theyhave decided to write it off
completely right, like I'm justdone with that.
I hate small talk.
They've decided they make theseproclamations.
I hate it so much.
And I think they get therebecause maybe they had a bad
experience or maybe they believeit's vapid, and I just don't
(12:08):
think that's true.
I don't think all small talk isworthless.
So then there's the other camp,the camp of just like.
I think they're kind ofoverthinkers, so they're a
little bit nervous.
It's not like they don't wantto do it, it's like they don't
know how to do it.
Bobby bobby, for instance,maybe a bit of shane.
Shane takes.
He's got a good warm-up session.
(12:28):
You know he's got to getfriends on the boat.
We've been there.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
He doesn't listen, so he won't hear that I think,
yeah, maybe for me I don't knowwhat it is.
I think I think it's that Idon't know the person very well.
Like, I think maybe that's it.
I get myself in situationswhere like uh-oh, I don't know
your name, kind of deal.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
And you get nervous.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Not nervous, but then I'm just like, geez, I'm going
to say the wrong thing Will youmeet so many people, it's
impossible for you to knoweverybody's name.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
I feel the same way.
I'm like I even say it.
I'll be like I'm so sorry, helpme with your name.
I know we've seen each other acouple of times, but because I
don't want it to be weird, or ifI know it's a quick flyby, I'll
just be like hey, you Girl,girl, you look, I love that
shirt.
Okay, fit, I gotta go.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Also, there's a gas station.
That's the most convenient gasstation If I'm going anywhere
from my house or coming to myhouse and the girl that works
the counter is too friendly,she's too friendly and so, like
I really have to think like,geez, you might've drive
somewhere else to go get thisCelsius, Do I?
Should I just bite the bulletand go in and be friendly for a
second?
Speaker 3 (13:36):
Wow Well shocking for me again same you labrador
retriever liar.
What do you?
How do you mean?
You're so pleasant and I'm verypleasant with her.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
I giggle and do the whole thing and I'm like, and
then we'll cut the car.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
I'm like you really had to give it because you, I
guess it takes energy, it does Iguess yeah it's so interesting
because I feel like a misstepthat I've made over the years is
I used to live downtown whenUrban Standard was like the
place that you would go downtownand I don't know if I've shared
this story on here before, butI went there every day for six
(14:12):
months, every day, because I wasone block from there have my
coffee, do my morning routine.
And this guy would say goodmorning Laura, every day and I
would say like after a couple ofweeks I started just saying
good morning Caleb, but his namewasn't Caleb.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Oh, no, and I called it up.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Well, I heard somebody I thought call him that
you weren't making a joke iswhat I'm asking?
Speaker 2 (14:35):
No, not at all.
I thought look how intentionalwe've become.
You know where you're like.
Okay, can I go in thisconvenience store?
Will I have the energy For me?
Speaker 3 (14:43):
I'm leaning all the way in You're going to connect.
Oh, I'm connecting Caleb.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
he bought a house.
I bought a housewarming partylike gift.
I didn't go to the party.
Then one morning, six months into this interaction, I'm
standing at the counter.
He walks by Good.
Standing at the counter.
He walks by.
Good morning Laura.
He's delivering food to a table.
I'm getting my order taken andI said good morning Caleb.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
And the girl at the register said you know?
Speaker 2 (15:09):
his name's John right , and I said, no, that's
actually impossible.
His name couldn't.
I'm making these names upbecause I can't ever remember
what it is.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Clearly.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
I was like, yeah, obviously.
I was like, what do you mean?
And she's like, well, no, thisguy back here, that's Caleb,
that's John.
And I was like, and so he cameback by and I was like, why have
you not told me your name wasJohn?
In six months I got you ahousewarming gift To Caleb.
To Caleb, and he was like youjust seem so.
(15:37):
You really believed it and Ididn't want to correct you.
That was nice and that's whatsmall talk will do for you.
You don't have a realrelationship with these people.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
I've had a person or two in my life that have started
calling me the wrong name and Ihave not had the chance to
correct them, and then it's justfor years they have called me
this other name.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Give us the name.
What is it?
What's the name?
Speaker 1 (15:59):
like I got I was called billy for a long time
instead of willie two-tone, yougot billy yeah, and like it was
one of those things, same deal.
There were two billies that Iworked with at this place.
I'm will.
There was a billy and anotherbilly and I guess he had heard
that at some point called mebilly.
I couldn't correct him and thenit was done, and for years I
mean it's close enough yeah okayso let's talk about you didn't
(16:24):
get the third camp.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
What well?
The third camp is the peoplewho love it.
Oh, okay, yeah.
So there's the.
There's the deep thinkers who Ifeel like will hate it because
they're like I want meaningfulconversation, I just don't even
want to bother if it's not goingto be worth something.
Then there's the over thinkerswho are like oh my god, do I
have the capacity to do this?
Am I saying the wrong thing?
I don't even want to bother ifit's not going to be worth
something.
Then there's the over thinkerswho are like oh my god, do I
have the capacity to do this?
Am I saying the wrong thing?
I don't know their name.
(16:47):
And then there's the third camp, who's just like I'm into it.
Well, you said goldilocks.
Which one of those are you isthere another one that I'm
missing?
Speaker 3 (16:54):
well, I think no, mine just depends on the
situation.
So the person you're talkingabout with the grocery store,
that's like the true lover ofsmall talk.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
You're talking about the girl at the convenience
store.
No, no, like the person I workwith, no who's shopping up and
down the aisles?
To talk to people.
Oh, some guy you work with.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Got it.
Yeah, near enough.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
I can say this.
So there's two coffee shops inmy neighborhood.
Both have perfect coffee.
There's people that know myname at both.
It feels like cheers.
Yes.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Good morning Claire, you having a latte with regular
milk.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
They have my order.
It's not complicated At onecoffee shop.
That's it.
You want your coffee?
Yes, have a great day.
Good to see ya, weather's nice.
Bye-bye, easy.
The next coffee shop I willleave.
Do I have something on my?
Speaker 2 (17:49):
no, I felt like I did .
You got a hair.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Okay, the next coffee shop.
They will disclose something sopersonal to me.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Oh.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
And they're really precious people in there and
some days I'm like I can hold it, I can go in there and I'll
naturally over-disclose back toa person I have no actual
relationship with, make themfeel less alone.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
That's what I say.
Of course, You're going to bevulnerable.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
I will double down, you know, and leave thinking why
did I tell that person thatvery personal item about me?
Speaker 2 (18:25):
okay, and you know, I just took a pregnancy test
actually in your bathroom.
Thank you for asking.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
Have a great day um, so it like depends on my mood,
okay, uh, amanda, my best friendonly likes chatty coffee shop
and I'm like I don't have 20minutes, I have four and I can
go to four minutes or I can goto 20 minutes.
I took Bobby in to 20 minutecoffee and I'm in deep with one
of them.
Okay, and she tells me goingthrough IVF her, but she, I
(18:55):
already know this going inbecause obviously, and I walk in
and she's like we were able toget, it's not get but get 11
eggs eggs or something she said.
I know she said eggs.
Bobby has no context and Bobbyis in camp, whatever camp is
(19:17):
like he's an overthinker.
We kind of just shuts down andI'm always like, hey, you know,
just ask people questions.
It can be really easy questions.
So she is like we got these 11eggs and he goes y'all have
chickens.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Oh nice.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
He's like she's gone through this like horrible year
long process.
I've told my husband, like youcould at least be friendlier to
people.
And then he tries and she wasso awesome about it and she
laughed and was great, and then,of course, like he's clueless,
you know, poor guy.
So that's what I'm up against.
(19:53):
So I'm I can't even say I'mGoldilocks.
It just depends on am I lonely?
Could I connect a little bit,or am I in a hurry?
I got nothing.
Will's gas station situationLike can I just smile and get my
drink and go?
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Okay.
So when you're saying that thisis so interesting because I'm
actually thinking about, like,how Shane does it I would say
the lower the stakes the more,the more Shane's engaging, Like
the redneck playing pool he's in, he's talking trash, he's
whatever.
But if it's like a okay, we'veinvited these new people over
(20:27):
and we're going to hang outShane's kind of like, I'm going
to need a good 30 minutes towarm myself up to this and then
maybe I'll say five to six words, probably just turn on the
music too loud and theneventually maybe get into a
conversation.
So, like for him, I think, likethe lower the stakes, the
easier it is for him to engage.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Yeah, I was going to say probably the same thing for
me, like at the beach, like nota super crowded beach, but at
the beach.
If there's someone 20 yardsaway or whatever, I'm always
eager to strike up aconversation with them and find
out.
Like where y'all from wherey'all from all that kind of what
kind of beer you got in, thecooler yeah and then eventually
get bring our chairs togetherand hang for a little bit okay,
(21:10):
I would literally never.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
Oh, yeah, same that is wild I.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
I won't initiate that , but like.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
Shane is the same way .
He will be, like we I mean wehad a great conversation on a
date night the other night withthese random people that we
never met I think we're going tohang out with them at Halloween
at the Hot Dog House downtownColeman, because, like, we just
start having this greatconversation with them because
he strikes it up and again, ifI'm going to, if I'm hanging out
(21:37):
with Claire, I'm just hangingout with Claire.
I mean, we might say hello butlike we came here to hang out me
and you so that's going to bethe thing, whereas Shane's, like
you know, I don't know there isa.
It's an interesting like whathat are you wearing?
Speaker 1 (21:50):
Yeah, as I was thinking through the hang out
with at the beach a year or soago, I realized of course
there's drinking involved.
That's what.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
Yeah, that's why.
That's why I was like it wasn'tjust one Celsius.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
Heck, yeah, I'll come over and DJ for you.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
Actually, you know what.
Let me take over the speaker Igot this I take weddings.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Yeah, Sure, we'll have dinner tonight.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
I don't know if you know You've I got this.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
So yeah, I think, well, alcohol is a component,
and then where's my energy?
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Like, do I have it or do I not?
And low risk, high risk.
And so I think one of the groupof people that asked for this
podcast were the overthinkers,by the way, the people that seem
to get in their heads andthey're like get weird.
Maybe their face, face is likeI don't know what I'm doing with
my face, somebody's just.
Maybe they're, they're beingovershared to and they have no
(22:43):
idea how to be like so you havechickens, sweet Bobby.
So what do you say from aclinical standpoint?
What happens when you'refeeling that way, like when,
when you're the overthinker andyou're like oh, this situation
makes me feel weird.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
Well, that's usually like when our mind just goes
blank or we're like do I have abooker?
Speaker 2 (23:06):
You know, like all of those things.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
So this is so funny.
I guess I've never thoughtabout it clinically, but it's
just the same as any other timethat my mind wanders into future
things or past things.
Like I've left the room, how doI come back here right now?
And you can still betheoretically uncomfortable, but
it's just simplifying into likeI'm here right now and you get
(23:29):
to ask something so benign, whatI tried to coach Bobby on and
he missed the mark and that wastotally my fault.
But it's just like where areyou from?
Like those beginningengagements, whether it I mean
and I guess I would say thatwith if you're meeting new
friends, it it feels even morenerve-wracking than like a
cashier.
You don't ever see them again,but it's building rapport is the
(23:53):
start of any good relationship.
Our relationship started offbecause I wanted to hire you for
something and then, four hourslater that's true, we were
soulmates.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
So like all right, well, I guess we're going to do
life together forever.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
Yeah, and that started off with and we're
terrible examples because we cantalk to a brick wall but same
yes, but it's just like beingright here, engaging how I can
and letting the rest go.
Because when I'm so in my head,so worried, then people feel
that they feel the disconnection.
So my therapist calls thatgoing into the abyss.
(24:25):
And she's always like you canalways go to the abyss, but be
sure you come back.
So it's like bring yourselfback.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
You know we had an event a couple weeks ago for one
of the nonprofits that I lovevery, very much around period
poverty, but there was a localdoctor.
She's an optometrist my newoptometrist actually Love her.
Hello, dr Kelsey.
Thank you for tuning in ifyou're listening.
But she asked me she's likeI've been asked to speak, what's
(24:52):
the secret of speaking?
And I was like, honestly, Idon't know that there's a secret
.
I said, but what I can tell youis, over the years I have
learned people prefer you bereal rather than perfect.
So I try to be as truthful andrelatable as I can when I'm
speaking to audiences, and thatnormally means I don't come off
(25:13):
as polished, but I also come offa lot more like oh, we're not
that different.
She may have the microphone butas it turns out, she's just a
human.
You mean she makes mistakes,you mean she says weird stuff at
client meetings.
Yes, that is all true.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
I think you're out.
You're so right because we'renot striving for perfection and
small talk, we're just strivingfor, like humanity.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
And.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
I would tell that over thinkers like you can
lighten up, like we don't haveto track this to a childhood
wound or an attachment style.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Right, it's just like lighten up, have some humor
about it and maybe you do suckat it the rest of your life but
you can be more comfortable withjust sucking at it totally, and
I think it's like you can evensay the thing man, I feel
awkward when I don't know whatto say.
That's okay, that's sorelatable to most people.
They'd be like same, I love.
I mean, obviously I'm in arelationship forward business
(26:08):
and so I talk to a person on anelevator like I'm that girl, I'm
the girl who's like hi, prettyweather today, you know.
And they're like, yes, and I'mfine with that, but it's a for
me, it's a sharpening of myskill.
This is what I do.
One.
I love making people feel likeconnected.
(26:28):
So I like smiling, making allkinds of eye contact, saying
something silly, you know,self-deprecating, like I often
trip and I'll be like oh, Idon't know if I'm sure you all
saw that.
Anybody get a video, send it tome, I'll put it on my socials.
You know, like, whatever, whatare you going to say?
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Yeah, that like public speaking wise, I don't
know.
I think maybe in small talk itmay be something like oh you
idiot, why'd you say that?
And I'll think about it for along time.
But when I make a, usually thebest thing because then I can
roll with that and play on itand like self-deprecation is my
style and so like if Imispronounce something or
whatever and I'm called out onit, wonderful, then I have a
(27:05):
joke for the next hour that Ican play off of 100.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
So let's talk about the people that say small talk
is useless.
I would guess that they'reunder 30 years old.
That's a I have.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
No, I would say well, will hated it until he realized
he actually loved it fiveminutes ago.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
No, no no, I don't mean just the haters.
I'm talking about the peoplethat think it's useless.
They'd rather have deep,meaningful conversation, because
that's not what he's saying I,that's definitely not me.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
I think I don't know that I would agree with that.
I do think a lot of them,that's what they would say.
But I have some friends thatwould say, ugh, I despise small
talk and they're my age and Ithink that where I believe
they're coming from is theydon't believe they have the
capacity for it, or they don'tlike have the capacity for it,
(27:59):
or they they don't like.
I actually have a friend whosays things like my friend card
is full.
I'm not looking for new friends, so I'm uninterested in talking
and making a connection withpeople.
I don't know.
That doesn't matter to me.
Speaker 3 (28:13):
And.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
I'm like that's so sad.
Yeah, that's so sad and I thinkthat, well, that's a.
Really.
It sounds like aself-protection vibe for me, you
know, like don't want to bevulnerable, don't need anybody
to, whatever.
I don't know what is that.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
I'm pretty sure there's an episode of this
podcast where we all said ourfriend card was full too.
Carry on.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
I was like did we say something like that in tier?
Speaker 1 (28:37):
one, but full too.
But go carry on.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
I was like did we at least say something like that in
tier one, not this part?
Speaker 1 (28:45):
but not about the.
I don't have time for.
You can only do so many, tierone relationships and be good at
it.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
Yeah, we'll digress, but but this all shut up.
This is repetition, this onelittle piece from that episode,
but I think it's a good reminder.
The easy conversation that isnot super deep, super vulnerable
, can be really relieving too.
Like, oh, I didn't have toshare the deepest, darkest thing
(29:07):
that's happening in my life.
We did talk about weather, whatthe kids are up to, the trip
I'm planning or whatever, andthat's it.
Like, how light and easy isthat to me there's value.
You've connected, maybe you'velaughed and and that was it,
because you don't have to exposeeverything.
The reason gen z-ers don't yellat me, the reason I said I
think that they're younger, isbecause we have people crying on
(29:30):
instagram, which you know Ibring up.
A lot like instagram.
They're actually crying ontiktok and then sharing it on
their instagram.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
but go on Instagram is they're actually?
Speaker 3 (29:36):
crying on TikTok and then sharing it on their
Instagram.
But go on.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Actually, when I said that, I was like damn it.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
It's probably three weeks later on Instagram, but
whatever Social media has become, this lens into someone's soul,
or it can be.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
I'm more interested in baked goods and yarn, but I
don't want that and youralgorithm says so, and she and
she shows you know, um, whatkind of duck breeds do you have
on your farm?
Speaker 3 (30:03):
That kind of thing.
Um so I think it became thislike oh, that's how we connect.
You only connect deeply, youonly bond in deep connection,
and it's just simply not true.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
No, there's something to be said about.
Uh what?
What did I read one time thatwas talking about being in the
grocery checkout line and alittle boy who had lost his
parent saying my mom died to thecashier.
And the cashier said I'm sorry,your mom died and that that
little moment is like a healingmoment.
(30:34):
I think it was like.
So it sounds like a.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
Christmas song.
I was going to say that'sChristmas Shoes.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
No, no, no, no, no no .
Speaker 1 (30:39):
This is a doctor, this is.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
Oprah and Dr So-and-so.
What happened to you?
You little assholes.
But yes, it's also a Christmassong called Christmas Shoes.
Fuck all the way off.
It is a real thing, but likethose little micro moments with
people, it's nice.
The the thing is is like, let'ssay, your friend card really is
full and you know who I'mtalking to you.
You're listening right now,probably, and you know it's you.
(31:04):
If your friend card really isfull, kindness is not to say
that a small interaction withsomeone or talking to them is
that you're opening your afriend slot, even if it's tier
three, tier four.
It's just to say you don't knowhow long it's been since that
cashier, that convenience storegirl, had someone actually give
(31:25):
her a fist pump or tell her tohave a great day or thank her
for what she's doing whilelooking her in the eye.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
So, like the capacity it takes for you to get out of
your truck, go on yeah, no, andI do, and mean I and you do it,
and then you're like damn it,what we're getting at is you
should feel like shit if youpass that gas station.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
She needed you that day.
It's a very busy gas station.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
I'm sure that she's like this with everyone.
She's like this way with myfriend Nick too.
Can we go in there?
Huh, her again.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Y'all are like stopping three exits down, just
so you don't have to go in.
Poor girl.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
All I've got is Christmas shoes now, oh wow.
Speaker 3 (32:06):
Gonna buy these shoes For my mama, okay.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
And that's today's episode.
Thanks for tuning in, youbitches.
okay, we're good the most important part of this
episode is that y'all are gonnasee will's face possibly no not
not impossibly it is on editingnope, no, you've, you have
Speaker 3 (00:15):
this mystery man and look at that hair.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
He cuts it himself, folks I'll say it, but it's also
well it's curly and out ofcontrol sometimes.
Have you met Clay and Claire?
I don't know.
It really works, fuck off.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
I'm not used to it.
I've had hair here in manyyears.
So I was hosting an event and Ihad a fancy thing at a country
club and I took Lila as my datefor the first time.
Aw, I was like you're oldenough now to go to these things
with me or whatever.
So she got all dressed up andwent.
I told her I was like you knowyour job is, if I'm on stage and
my hair starts like doingsomething, you got to give me a
(00:50):
signal.
I'll walk over to you at somepoint you can fix it.
And she did like an hour in andI was like all right, here you
go.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
And she did it like the no, no, panicky no, you
didn't you didn't do it.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
It's a really hard life, curly hair you have unruly
curls.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
I do have curly hair, but not to the level I used to
have really curly hair, Allright.
What are we talking about today?
Speaker 3 (01:16):
What we just did Okay .
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Small talk.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Mm.
Oh, love it.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Will's favorite, except you're good at it.
You really are good at it.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
I guess, I don't know , there are times I don't like
it.
It depends on the mood of it,but definitely like going to the
store and stuff.
That'll be my contribution tothis episode, just talking about
how much I hate going to thegrocery store.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Well, you do have that face.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Your disdain for the.
This is another outside episodeon the front porch, so you're
going to hear the birds chirping.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
And the dump truck.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Waving and the debris truck picking up the neighbor's
tree Debris truck?
Speaker 3 (02:01):
What kind of?
Speaker 1 (02:02):
You know we're.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Say we're in.
Oh, oh, I didn't know we had aGod I sound rude today.
I'm sorry.
Well, you are recovering.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
I've been ill.
I haven't made any small talkin days as I haven't left the
home very much.
Okay, Back to oh.
I know what I was going to say.
You must hate Trader Joe's.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
You know, I've really never been.
One time I like walked inbecause Lila was in there and I
was like I need to go in and gether because she's not coming
out, and that's it.
I've never been in Other thanthat I've never shopped there.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
Well, that's disappointing because it's
amazing.
It's amazing and I don't knowtheir training protocols, but I
think that they have to commenton one thing that you've
purchased and mention like howthey've prepared it or how they
love it.
And I'm always like, oh cool,you know, laura, would they'd
have Laura's phone number by theend of it.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
But we would.
I'd be like I can refer you toa therapist.
I'm willing to help you, giveyou a five point plan before I
leave the line.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
It is really weird when they a lot of cashiers do
that try to have talk with youabout the stuff you're buying.
It's like come on, now, come on.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
We don't want to be there anyways, you know.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
I kind of like it, I'm like into it, you know, I'm
like, oh, that's cool.
And also one of my like hopesfor 2025 was to be off my phone
when I'm checking out of places,to try and be a little bit more
engaged.
I mean, my life is busy and Idon't like talking on the phone
when I'm trying to interact withpeople.
Sometimes that happens, but itreally has opened up some
(03:37):
interesting dialect with youknow.
Just some back and forth withmy classic Publix girls.
They like to let me know whatreally is going on.
One of them's going through adivorce, obviously, and the
other one has got a problem withher son.
He's been dabbling in the drugsagain.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Let's all take a moment to say goodbye to the
debris truck, and that is whatit's called.
That is a debris truck.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
I didn't know.
I thought you were justfanzying it up.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
What it's called that is a debris.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
I didn't know I thought you were just a loud ass
truck.
Um okay, so we got this topicfrom listeners y'all voted for
it.
So here we are.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
If you love it, you hate it, it's your fault it's
like how we feel about smalltalk we love it and we hate it
oh, you see what he did there,yeah, and guess what goldilocks.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
I can kind of go either way, okay, depending on
the situation.
Uh huh.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
The guy that I do the radio show with.
He Loves it so much that hegoes to the store For hours On
purpose and does every aisleMultiple times and to have small
talk with people.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Well, that is called Starving to death.
That's actually what that'scalled.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
I'm telling you Psychopathic baby.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Emotionally maybe psychopath, but maybe just like
emotionally um, hungry.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
I'll let him know, you said so.
So diagnose them, okay.
So I think we need to talkabout some instances before we
get into like why we hate it andour deep thinkers and blah,
blah, blah.
Um, I can tell you, two weeksago I went to the dentist and I
have never in my life Even had acavity Never and I love going.
I'm not one of thoseanti-dentist people Because I've
(05:16):
never had anything bad happen.
I go get them cleaned.
See you in six months.
So you know the protocol is thedental hygienist comes in.
Why did you just write downface?
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Watch your face.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
Watch your face when you're telling a story, just so
we're clear this might have.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
You can't, and I'm allowed to write down whatever
the hell I want to write down.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
This is not about you .
It's like when my therapisttakes notes.
I'm like just say it Just tellme what you said.
Goldilocks really likes to makeeverything about herself.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
That's true actually.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
So, anyways, you know you get your teeth cleaned, the
dentist comes in and they sayif you have a problem or not, I
suppose, which I haven't had andthen they leave.
So this time the hygienistcomes in and gosh, this is going
to be a two part story, cause Ialso think I might be getting
scammed by the dentist whichwe'll get to, which I've heard
(06:09):
is actually popular.
But so she takes one look andshe's like do you brush every
day?
And I'm like, my God, yes.
And she was like do you floss?
And I was like, okay, you know,I can be honest, I could
probably floss more.
I know everybody lies to theirdentist and I was like is
something?
Speaker 2 (06:25):
wrong.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
And she was like you have some swelling, your gums
are swollen, and she was likeusually that's from lack of
brushing.
And I was like, well, I brush,I'm like starting to like sweat,
and I was like any otherpossibilities.
She was like some.
And she was like no dietarychanges, big life change.
I'm like no, like everything'sfine.
So then she's like I'll beright back, I'll go get the
(06:47):
dentist and I'm like oh, like,are my teeth about to fall out?
So she comes back with him andshe's like see, they haven't
even cleaned them yet, okay, andhe said it's one of two things.
Do you take supplements?
And I was, yes, I do, I wastaking.
I've taken new supplementslately.
(07:08):
Could that be it?
And here, if you take a lot ofsupplements, minerals will stay
in your mouth.
It can cause gum inflammation.
Okay, and he said or, it doeslook like early, the early part
of pregnancy, excuse me, and soso I'm not pregnant.
Um, found out pretty quicklyafter this at homewood pharmacy
(07:31):
and I so loudly was like, whichdoes it look more like?
He's like well, I can't tellyou that and I'm like mother
fucker.
Okay, so I have to sit therethrough the whole teeth cleaning
, which talk about small talk,because then the hygienist is
like it's all gonna be fine.
You're, it's probably thesupplements and I'm like what do
(07:52):
you think?
it is, you know, and like I justwanted, another point in my
life where I was ready to dothis again okay and then, as
we're scheduling my appointment,because she's like what are you
gonna do the rest day?
And in my head I'm like I'mabout to go get a pregnancy test
is what I'm about to do andcall my husband.
But she was sketching.
She's like guess we'll see youin six months.
And I was like fuck off.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Janet, you know like OK.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
So I called Andy probably 30 times and he didn't
answer, which is a blessing.
And he didn't answer, which isa blessing, and because at that
point went into a pharmacy, wentinto a coffee shop, used their
bathroom, bought a latte and wasable to treat patients
effectively at my office therest of the day.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Love it.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
But who would say that?
They should have said it'sprobably supplements.
And then let me figure out onmy own time.
Yes, If I was pregnant.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
I mean they're a medical professional.
They're not a gynecologist, butthey're I don't know.
What if it's the opposite?
What if they we're like weshouldn't mention that to her,
and then turns out you werepregnant and went another three
weeks or four weeks withoutknowing I would have never
blamed it on the dentist.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
I would have never been like you know.
Who should have informed me?
Dr Macbeth at Shades CreekDental.
Okay, I would have never evenknown that it was a possibility.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
So where your filler small talk was supposed to be.
Instead, you had to be askingabout real life things like do
you think I'm pregnant?
Speaker 3 (09:27):
The hygienist was basically my emotional support
dog and life coach, for I waslike about how much longer do
you think it's going to take?
And she was like I'll get youout of here in 20 minutes.
I was like, okay, no problem.
Like I was just sitting therelike there was no talk happening
.
Who can talk anyways?
During that she just probablysaw, like tears in her eyes, my
(09:48):
favorite thing is that they tryto talk to you.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
They try.
I'm like listen, guys, why arewe?
Please don't make me try tohave a conversation with you
while your fingers are in mymouth and you're like scraping
whatever off my teeth.
I don't like that.
I'm so weird.
It's the one place I thinksmall talk should be off limits.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
I think the weirdest part of the worst part of that
story is that they assumepossibly you weren't brushing
your teeth every day.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Also rude.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
I was so offended she's like getting all the way
to the gum line.
I was like well, I would assumeso, as a full 38 years has gone
by with only perfect dentalreports.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
So I was like who's not brushing their teeth
multiple times a day?
Speaker 2 (10:30):
That's still going to a dentist every six months,
like that's my point, or evenjust I mean for the most part, I
keep touching my teeth.
I know.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
I'm like, I'm like checking, like do am I okay?
But I will say cause.
Then I did a lot of research.
So if you are listening and youtake a lot of supplements, it's
only things with heavy minerals.
So I would assume, like if youhave more food based or like
magnesium and things like that,it thickens your saliva.
Sorry if that's gross and ifyou do not really floss I got a
water flosser after thisincident.
He was like you don't have tostop taking the supplements, you
(11:03):
just have to like really, getin there, and I was like yes,
sir.
And now there's a toothbrush inmy car and one in my office.
Well, now I'm like.
I'm like he's.
They will never question if I'mpregnant, brushing my teeth or
taking supplements again and inthis moment?
Speaker 2 (11:19):
well, do you feel like?
Is this revealing that Claireis a bit of an overachiever?
Speaker 3 (11:24):
That's not today's topic.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Yeah and not reveal no.
You knew yeah sure.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Okay, well, here's what I think about Small Talk.
I think that we have a coupledifferent camps.
We got the avoided at all costcamp.
We have the people who are likein the right setting.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Wait, what do you mean?
Avoid it at all costs?
Explain before you move on.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Well, I think that in my experience with people who
struggle with small talk, theyhave decided to write it off
completely right, like I'm justdone with that.
I hate small talk.
They've decided they make theseproclamations.
I hate it so much.
And I think they get therebecause maybe they had a bad
experience or maybe they believeit's vapid, and I just don't
(12:08):
think that's true.
I don't think all small talk isworthless.
So then there's the other camp,the camp of just like.
I think they're kind ofoverthinkers, so they're a
little bit nervous.
It's not like they don't wantto do it, it's like they don't
know how to do it.
Bobby bobby, for instance,maybe a bit of shane.
Shane takes.
He's got a good warm-up session.
(12:28):
You know he's got to getfriends on the boat.
We've been there.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
He doesn't listen, so he won't hear that I think,
yeah, maybe for me I don't knowwhat it is.
I think I think it's that Idon't know the person very well.
Like, I think maybe that's it.
I get myself in situationswhere like uh-oh, I don't know
your name, kind of deal.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
And you get nervous.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Not nervous, but then I'm just like, geez, I'm going
to say the wrong thing Will youmeet so many people, it's
impossible for you to knoweverybody's name.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
I feel the same way.
I'm like I even say it.
I'll be like I'm so sorry, helpme with your name.
I know we've seen each other acouple of times, but because I
don't want it to be weird, or ifI know it's a quick flyby, I'll
just be like hey, you Girl,girl, you look, I love that
shirt.
Okay, fit, I gotta go.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Also, there's a gas station.
That's the most convenient gasstation If I'm going anywhere
from my house or coming to myhouse and the girl that works
the counter is too friendly,she's too friendly and so, like
I really have to think like,geez, you might've drive
somewhere else to go get thisCelsius, Do I?
Should I just bite the bulletand go in and be friendly for a
second?
Speaker 3 (13:36):
Wow Well shocking for me again same you labrador
retriever liar.
What do you?
How do you mean?
You're so pleasant and I'm verypleasant with her.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
I giggle and do the whole thing and I'm like, and
then we'll cut the car.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
I'm like you really had to give it because you, I
guess it takes energy, it does Iguess yeah it's so interesting
because I feel like a misstepthat I've made over the years is
I used to live downtown whenUrban Standard was like the
place that you would go downtownand I don't know if I've shared
this story on here before, butI went there every day for six
(14:12):
months, every day, because I wasone block from there have my
coffee, do my morning routine.
And this guy would say goodmorning Laura, every day and I
would say like after a couple ofweeks I started just saying
good morning Caleb, but his namewasn't Caleb.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Oh, no, and I called it up.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Well, I heard somebody I thought call him that
you weren't making a joke iswhat I'm asking?
Speaker 2 (14:35):
No, not at all.
I thought look how intentionalwe've become.
You know where you're like.
Okay, can I go in thisconvenience store?
Will I have the energy For me?
Speaker 3 (14:43):
I'm leaning all the way in You're going to connect.
Oh, I'm connecting Caleb.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
he bought a house.
I bought a housewarming partylike gift.
I didn't go to the party.
Then one morning, six months into this interaction, I'm
standing at the counter.
He walks by Good.
Standing at the counter.
He walks by.
Good morning Laura.
He's delivering food to a table.
I'm getting my order taken andI said good morning Caleb.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
And the girl at the register said you know?
Speaker 2 (15:09):
his name's John right , and I said, no, that's
actually impossible.
His name couldn't.
I'm making these names upbecause I can't ever remember
what it is.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Clearly.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
I was like, yeah, obviously.
I was like, what do you mean?
And she's like, well, no, thisguy back here, that's Caleb,
that's John.
And I was like, and so he cameback by and I was like, why have
you not told me your name wasJohn?
In six months I got you ahousewarming gift To Caleb.
To Caleb, and he was like youjust seem so.
(15:37):
You really believed it and Ididn't want to correct you.
That was nice and that's whatsmall talk will do for you.
You don't have a realrelationship with these people.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
I've had a person or two in my life that have started
calling me the wrong name and Ihave not had the chance to
correct them, and then it's justfor years they have called me
this other name.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Give us the name.
What is it?
What's the name?
Speaker 1 (15:59):
like I got I was called billy for a long time
instead of willie two-tone, yougot billy yeah, and like it was
one of those things, same deal.
There were two billies that Iworked with at this place.
I'm will.
There was a billy and anotherbilly and I guess he had heard
that at some point called mebilly.
I couldn't correct him and thenit was done, and for years I
mean it's close enough yeah okayso let's talk about you didn't
(16:24):
get the third camp.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
What well?
The third camp is the peoplewho love it.
Oh, okay, yeah.
So there's the.
There's the deep thinkers who Ifeel like will hate it because
they're like I want meaningfulconversation, I just don't even
want to bother if it's not goingto be worth something.
Then there's the over thinkerswho are like oh my god, do I
have the capacity to do this?
Am I saying the wrong thing?
I don't even want to bother ifit's not going to be worth
something.
Then there's the over thinkerswho are like oh my god, do I
have the capacity to do this?
Am I saying the wrong thing?
I don't know their name.
(16:47):
And then there's the third camp, who's just like I'm into it.
Well, you said goldilocks.
Which one of those are you isthere another one that I'm
missing?
Speaker 3 (16:54):
well, I think no, mine just depends on the
situation.
So the person you're talkingabout with the grocery store,
that's like the true lover ofsmall talk.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
You're talking about the girl at the convenience
store.
No, no, like the person I workwith, no who's shopping up and
down the aisles?
To talk to people.
Oh, some guy you work with.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Got it.
Yeah, near enough.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
I can say this.
So there's two coffee shops inmy neighborhood.
Both have perfect coffee.
There's people that know myname at both.
It feels like cheers.
Yes.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Good morning Claire, you having a latte with regular
milk.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
They have my order.
It's not complicated At onecoffee shop.
That's it.
You want your coffee?
Yes, have a great day.
Good to see ya, weather's nice.
Bye-bye, easy.
The next coffee shop I willleave.
Do I have something on my?
Speaker 2 (17:49):
no, I felt like I did .
You got a hair.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Okay, the next coffee shop.
They will disclose something sopersonal to me.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Oh.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
And they're really precious people in there and
some days I'm like I can hold it, I can go in there and I'll
naturally over-disclose back toa person I have no actual
relationship with, make themfeel less alone.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
That's what I say.
Of course, You're going to bevulnerable.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
I will double down, you know, and leave thinking why
did I tell that person thatvery personal item about me?
Speaker 2 (18:25):
okay, and you know, I just took a pregnancy test
actually in your bathroom.
Thank you for asking.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
Have a great day um, so it like depends on my mood,
okay, uh, amanda, my best friendonly likes chatty coffee shop
and I'm like I don't have 20minutes, I have four and I can
go to four minutes or I can goto 20 minutes.
I took Bobby in to 20 minutecoffee and I'm in deep with one
of them.
Okay, and she tells me goingthrough IVF her, but she, I
(18:55):
already know this going inbecause obviously, and I walk in
and she's like we were able toget, it's not get but get 11
eggs eggs or something she said.
I know she said eggs.
Bobby has no context and Bobbyis in camp, whatever camp is
(19:17):
like he's an overthinker.
We kind of just shuts down andI'm always like, hey, you know,
just ask people questions.
It can be really easy questions.
So she is like we got these 11eggs and he goes y'all have
chickens.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Oh nice.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
He's like she's gone through this like horrible year
long process.
I've told my husband, like youcould at least be friendlier to
people.
And then he tries and she wasso awesome about it and she
laughed and was great, and then,of course, like he's clueless,
you know, poor guy.
So that's what I'm up against.
(19:53):
So I'm I can't even say I'mGoldilocks.
It just depends on am I lonely?
Could I connect a little bit,or am I in a hurry?
I got nothing.
Will's gas station situationLike can I just smile and get my
drink and go?
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Okay.
So when you're saying that thisis so interesting because I'm
actually thinking about, like,how Shane does it I would say
the lower the stakes the more,the more Shane's engaging, Like
the redneck playing pool he's in, he's talking trash, he's
whatever.
But if it's like a okay, we'veinvited these new people over
(20:27):
and we're going to hang outShane's kind of like, I'm going
to need a good 30 minutes towarm myself up to this and then
maybe I'll say five to six words, probably just turn on the
music too loud and theneventually maybe get into a
conversation.
So, like for him, I think, likethe lower the stakes, the
easier it is for him to engage.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Yeah, I was going to say probably the same thing for
me, like at the beach, like nota super crowded beach, but at
the beach.
If there's someone 20 yardsaway or whatever, I'm always
eager to strike up aconversation with them and find
out.
Like where y'all from wherey'all from all that kind of what
kind of beer you got in, thecooler yeah and then eventually
get bring our chairs togetherand hang for a little bit okay,
(21:10):
I would literally never.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
Oh, yeah, same that is wild I.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
I won't initiate that , but like.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
Shane is the same way .
He will be, like we I mean wehad a great conversation on a
date night the other night withthese random people that we
never met I think we're going tohang out with them at Halloween
at the Hot Dog House downtownColeman, because, like, we just
start having this greatconversation with them because
he strikes it up and again, ifI'm going to, if I'm hanging out
(21:37):
with Claire, I'm just hangingout with Claire.
I mean, we might say hello butlike we came here to hang out me
and you so that's going to bethe thing, whereas Shane's, like
you know, I don't know there isa.
It's an interesting like whathat are you wearing?
Speaker 1 (21:50):
Yeah, as I was thinking through the hang out
with at the beach a year or soago, I realized of course
there's drinking involved.
That's what.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
Yeah, that's why.
That's why I was like it wasn'tjust one Celsius.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
Heck, yeah, I'll come over and DJ for you.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
Actually, you know what.
Let me take over the speaker Igot this I take weddings.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Yeah, Sure, we'll have dinner tonight.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
I don't know if you know You've I got this.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
So yeah, I think, well, alcohol is a component,
and then where's my energy?
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Like, do I have it or do I not?
And low risk, high risk.
And so I think one of the groupof people that asked for this
podcast were the overthinkers,by the way, the people that seem
to get in their heads andthey're like get weird.
Maybe their face, face is likeI don't know what I'm doing with
my face, somebody's just.
Maybe they're, they're beingovershared to and they have no
(22:43):
idea how to be like so you havechickens, sweet Bobby.
So what do you say from aclinical standpoint?
What happens when you'refeeling that way, like when,
when you're the overthinker andyou're like oh, this situation
makes me feel weird.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
Well, that's usually like when our mind just goes
blank or we're like do I have abooker?
Speaker 2 (23:06):
You know, like all of those things.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
So this is so funny.
I guess I've never thoughtabout it clinically, but it's
just the same as any other timethat my mind wanders into future
things or past things.
Like I've left the room, how doI come back here right now?
And you can still betheoretically uncomfortable, but
it's just simplifying into likeI'm here right now and you get
(23:29):
to ask something so benign, whatI tried to coach Bobby on and
he missed the mark and that wastotally my fault.
But it's just like where areyou from?
Like those beginningengagements, whether it I mean
and I guess I would say thatwith if you're meeting new
friends, it it feels even morenerve-wracking than like a
cashier.
You don't ever see them again,but it's building rapport is the
(23:53):
start of any good relationship.
Our relationship started offbecause I wanted to hire you for
something and then, four hourslater that's true, we were
soulmates.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
So like all right, well, I guess we're going to do
life together forever.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
Yeah, and that started off with and we're
terrible examples because we cantalk to a brick wall but same
yes, but it's just like beingright here, engaging how I can
and letting the rest go.
Because when I'm so in my head,so worried, then people feel
that they feel the disconnection.
So my therapist calls thatgoing into the abyss.
(24:25):
And she's always like you canalways go to the abyss, but be
sure you come back.
So it's like bring yourselfback.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
You know we had an event a couple weeks ago for one
of the nonprofits that I lovevery, very much around period
poverty, but there was a localdoctor.
She's an optometrist my newoptometrist actually Love her.
Hello, dr Kelsey.
Thank you for tuning in ifyou're listening.
But she asked me she's likeI've been asked to speak, what's
(24:52):
the secret of speaking?
And I was like, honestly, Idon't know that there's a secret
.
I said, but what I can tell youis, over the years I have
learned people prefer you bereal rather than perfect.
So I try to be as truthful andrelatable as I can when I'm
speaking to audiences, and thatnormally means I don't come off
(25:13):
as polished, but I also come offa lot more like oh, we're not
that different.
She may have the microphone butas it turns out, she's just a
human.
You mean she makes mistakes,you mean she says weird stuff at
client meetings.
Yes, that is all true.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
I think you're out.
You're so right because we'renot striving for perfection and
small talk, we're just strivingfor, like humanity.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
And.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
I would tell that over thinkers like you can
lighten up, like we don't haveto track this to a childhood
wound or an attachment style.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Right, it's just like lighten up, have some humor
about it and maybe you do suckat it the rest of your life but
you can be more comfortable withjust sucking at it totally, and
I think it's like you can evensay the thing man, I feel
awkward when I don't know whatto say.
That's okay, that's sorelatable to most people.
They'd be like same, I love.
I mean, obviously I'm in arelationship forward business
(26:08):
and so I talk to a person on anelevator like I'm that girl, I'm
the girl who's like hi, prettyweather today, you know.
And they're like, yes, and I'mfine with that, but it's a for
me, it's a sharpening of myskill.
This is what I do.
One.
I love making people feel likeconnected.
(26:28):
So I like smiling, making allkinds of eye contact, saying
something silly, you know,self-deprecating, like I often
trip and I'll be like oh, Idon't know if I'm sure you all
saw that.
Anybody get a video, send it tome, I'll put it on my socials.
You know, like, whatever, whatare you going to say?
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Yeah, that like public speaking wise, I don't
know.
I think maybe in small talk itmay be something like oh you
idiot, why'd you say that?
And I'll think about it for along time.
But when I make a, usually thebest thing because then I can
roll with that and play on itand like self-deprecation is my
style and so like if Imispronounce something or
whatever and I'm called out onit, wonderful, then I have a
(27:05):
joke for the next hour that Ican play off of 100.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
So let's talk about the people that say small talk
is useless.
I would guess that they'reunder 30 years old.
That's a I have.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
No, I would say well, will hated it until he realized
he actually loved it fiveminutes ago.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
No, no no, I don't mean just the haters.
I'm talking about the peoplethat think it's useless.
They'd rather have deep,meaningful conversation, because
that's not what he's saying I,that's definitely not me.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
I think I don't know that I would agree with that.
I do think a lot of them,that's what they would say.
But I have some friends thatwould say, ugh, I despise small
talk and they're my age and Ithink that where I believe
they're coming from is theydon't believe they have the
capacity for it, or they don'tlike have the capacity for it,
(27:59):
or they they don't like.
I actually have a friend whosays things like my friend card
is full.
I'm not looking for new friends, so I'm uninterested in talking
and making a connection withpeople.
I don't know.
That doesn't matter to me.
Speaker 3 (28:13):
And.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
I'm like that's so sad.
Yeah, that's so sad and I thinkthat, well, that's a.
Really.
It sounds like aself-protection vibe for me, you
know, like don't want to bevulnerable, don't need anybody
to, whatever.
I don't know what is that.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
I'm pretty sure there's an episode of this
podcast where we all said ourfriend card was full too.
Carry on.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
I was like did we say something like that in tier?
Speaker 1 (28:37):
one, but full too.
But go carry on.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
I was like did we at least say something like that in
tier one, not this part?
Speaker 1 (28:45):
but not about the.
I don't have time for.
You can only do so many, tierone relationships and be good at
it.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
Yeah, we'll digress, but but this all shut up.
This is repetition, this onelittle piece from that episode,
but I think it's a good reminder.
The easy conversation that isnot super deep, super vulnerable
, can be really relieving too.
Like, oh, I didn't have toshare the deepest, darkest thing
(29:07):
that's happening in my life.
We did talk about weather, whatthe kids are up to, the trip
I'm planning or whatever, andthat's it.
Like, how light and easy isthat to me there's value.
You've connected, maybe you'velaughed and and that was it,
because you don't have to exposeeverything.
The reason gen z-ers don't yellat me, the reason I said I
think that they're younger, isbecause we have people crying on
(29:30):
instagram, which you know Ibring up.
A lot like instagram.
They're actually crying ontiktok and then sharing it on
their instagram.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
but go on Instagram is they're actually?
Speaker 3 (29:36):
crying on TikTok and then sharing it on their
Instagram.
But go on.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Actually, when I said that, I was like damn it.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
It's probably three weeks later on Instagram, but
whatever Social media has become, this lens into someone's soul,
or it can be.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
I'm more interested in baked goods and yarn, but I
don't want that and youralgorithm says so, and she and
she shows you know, um, whatkind of duck breeds do you have
on your farm?
Speaker 3 (30:03):
That kind of thing.
Um so I think it became thislike oh, that's how we connect.
You only connect deeply, youonly bond in deep connection,
and it's just simply not true.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
No, there's something to be said about.
Uh what?
What did I read one time thatwas talking about being in the
grocery checkout line and alittle boy who had lost his
parent saying my mom died to thecashier.
And the cashier said I'm sorry,your mom died and that that
little moment is like a healingmoment.
(30:34):
I think it was like.
So it sounds like a.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
Christmas song.
I was going to say that'sChristmas Shoes.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
No, no, no, no, no no .
Speaker 1 (30:39):
This is a doctor, this is.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
Oprah and Dr So-and-so.
What happened to you?
You little assholes.
But yes, it's also a Christmassong called Christmas Shoes.
Fuck all the way off.
It is a real thing, but likethose little micro moments with
people, it's nice.
The the thing is is like, let'ssay, your friend card really is
full and you know who I'mtalking to you.
You're listening right now,probably, and you know it's you.
(31:04):
If your friend card really isfull, kindness is not to say
that a small interaction withsomeone or talking to them is
that you're opening your afriend slot, even if it's tier
three, tier four.
It's just to say you don't knowhow long it's been since that
cashier, that convenience storegirl, had someone actually give
(31:25):
her a fist pump or tell her tohave a great day or thank her
for what she's doing whilelooking her in the eye.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
So, like the capacity it takes for you to get out of
your truck, go on yeah, no, andI do, and mean I and you do it,
and then you're like damn it,what we're getting at is you
should feel like shit if youpass that gas station.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
She needed you that day.
It's a very busy gas station.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
I'm sure that she's like this with everyone.
She's like this way with myfriend Nick too.
Can we go in there?
Huh, her again.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Y'all are like stopping three exits down, just
so you don't have to go in.
Poor girl.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
All I've got is Christmas shoes now, oh wow.
Speaker 3 (32:06):
Gonna buy these shoes For my mama, okay.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
And that's today's episode.
Thanks for tuning in, youbitches.
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