March 28, 2025 • 37 mins
"Co-parenting has nothing to do with your failed marriage," becomes our central theme as we explore the strategies that help children thrive despite family restructuring. We discuss the surprising value of rigid schedules, the importance of speaking positively about your ex-partner (or saying nothing at all), and why approaching difficult conversations with curiosity rather than accusation makes all the difference.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to.
Before you Cut Bangs, I'm LauraQuick and I'm Claire.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Fehrman.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
I am a professional storyteller and I'm currently
working on my first book.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
I have worked in mental health for many years in
lots of capacities and this is areally important time to tell
you our big disclaimer this isnot therapy.
We are not your therapists orcoaches or anything like that.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Yeah, I mean you shouldn't really trust us very
much at all.
Unless you want to and it turnsout well, then you can trust us
.
That's great, okay.
So I was at a restaurantrecently getting something to
drink and this guy walked up tome and he said getting something
to drink.
And this guy walked up to meand he said every friday I'm
(00:46):
refreshing my spotify,constantly waiting to see if
there's another podcast.
A man, a man and then his wifeis like yeah, sometimes we get
to listen together and sometimeswe listen separately and then
we like talk about it when weget home from work.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Did you know?
Speaker 1 (01:02):
him.
I do know him, but I didn'tknow that.
I mean when I tell you this isthe least suspecting man that
you would ever think.
This guy is like no, I did notthink that he would be listening
to the podcast, but he's like Ilove it it feels good.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
It does, yeah, I had a doctor friend that was in town
from out of town and he wastalking about the podcast and he
was like telling his wife likeyou got to be hearing this and
like telling her all about it,guys.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
I know it's so cute, it feels great.
I know it's nice.
Thanks, guys.
It really does help and make usthink, wow, we're doing this
and you really like it.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
We like to be liked well, in the name of our, for
the sake of, or some phrase likethat.
We're talking aboutco-parenting, because somebody
requested it to Laura, not me.
So I think our little firstquestion should be just like a
horrifyingly but funny parentingmoment, like I don't want to be
(02:00):
traumatized today and I alreadyhave one, I just thought of it,
that was really funny and Icould think of a thousand.
But like, all right, like areyou sorry, then my kids are like
a little nudist colony, likethey have always been that way,
just like, and I'm a naked mom,you know, like no shame, like
change whatever.
And when, when we lived in thisneighborhood, we were at the
(02:20):
Chick-fil-a nearby and Gus wasprobably three and I was tired,
like I had two really young kids, so Gus was probably two really
, and then Birdie was probablyfour, and you know that age, if
you work or don't work, that'sjust a lot.
And so I was finally relaxingat the Chick-fil-A.
(02:42):
They were playing in the playplace when you still could
before covid and I hear anothermother say there's a naked
little boy in there and I don'teven look like, I didn't even
consider that it could have beenmy kid.
And then someone else sayssomething, and I look and
there's my naked little boy.
Nothing, not a stitch ofclothing On him, his little boy
(03:05):
parts Hanging out and he's inthat bubble.
You know the bubble Sure.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Sure, just like Magnifying glass Living his life
, and that was that.
How old again?
Two, two.
Yeah, it's great, he felt good,that's great.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
You know, and like I In those moments I'm not really
a panicker, I'm just like let'sget dressed and head out, I
think that was our time to wrapit up here.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
I wonder what his motivation was.
There Felt like it.
I mean I'll say like with Liam,like I told him, because at the
farm you could country tinkle.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
You didn't have to do the rest of it you could just
go country tinkle somewhere.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Say what that is, in case someone doesn't live in the
South.
Sure, I guess you call itYankee tingling if you're in the
North, but it's basically whereyou don't go to a restroom but
you just hide behind a tree orgo just whatever, just a little
bit away from people.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Well, it depends how far in the country, because
sometimes you just pee right offthe front porch Whatever On a
flat rock, if you will.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Yeah, and that was the problem with Liam because I
taught him like hey, country,tinkle over behind, you know
somewhere over here.
But then one day he was justdoing it right here in the front
yard, like just in the frontyard, and I was like whoa, whoa,
dude, that's not.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
That's not a country tinkle, that's a neighborhood
tinkle, that's city tinkling,city tinkling.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
City tinkling right there.
So mine was and this is on me,not my children Something I did,
embarrassing but just like aweek ago and I've not admitted
this, I've told anyone aboutthis but Lila had a track meet,
as she does, and I went and waswatching and it was real cold
and whatever.
It's a stadium I'm not familiarwith, right, so I don't know
(04:38):
where the restrooms are andwhatever and I see like Did you
shit your pants, no Good Lord.
And I see like Did you shityour pants?
Speaker 1 (04:45):
No, Good lord Laura, who else?
Good lord, we were hoping, wewere just hoping he's so
embarrassed, he's literally red.
Good lord Laura, no, I just hadto take a restroom tinkle.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
Okay okay, yeah, a proper tinkle.
And so there's the women's onthis side.
I see that, and so I just goover here to the men's.
But it turns out it's one ofthose, uh, where it's, you know,
wraps around, and the men's wasprobably the other side.
But here's the thing, whatever,if I walk in and it's like, you
(05:15):
know, grown women or somethinglike that, sorry about that,
girls track me but just a roomfull of teenage girls, some of
them Lila's classmates, some not, and it's me, the dad, walking
into the girls' restroom.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
This is what you're embarrassing, dad.
I bolted Lila doesn't know, shehas no idea she might, I'd
probably pretty one of the mosttragic things I said no tragedy
today.
No, no no, this is like.
This is a classic Clay, themost Clay thing of all time.
So in an exchange, clay goingto his dad's, sometimes my dad
(05:53):
when I lived still in Savannahwould intercept and hang out
with him for a little while, andmy family loves meeting threes.
Who doesn't?
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Yeah, sure.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Very so there was this one meet and three in the
town that I grew up in.
That's just like in a house,you know, and you go and you
whatever.
So my dad has him and I get acall from my dad and he's like
hey, you need to get here.
Like now, the police and thefire department are on their way
, clay has set this restauranton fire and I was like I'm sorry
(06:25):
, 'm sorry, I was like well,he's with you, so good luck with
that.
And he starts laughing and he'slike well, he did set it on
fire, but just so you know.
He goes in the bathroom and oneof my friends had taught him a
paper towel trick which is likeif you get a regular paper towel
and you put it in a candle, itjust like evaporates like very
fast.
Something you would never tell aseven-year-old child ever.
(06:47):
And Clay loved magic when hewas a kid, like obsessed with
magic.
Very on brand also for Clay andhe was.
So he went in the bathroom andthey had these industrial paper
towels which do not do the samething.
They burn, so it's burning.
Clay's freaking out becauseit's not evaporating.
He drops on the floor, thefloor catches on fire and Clay
(07:10):
comes out of the bathroom and mydad said he was like covered in
soot, Like completely.
His little white polo fromschool was like covered.
And he said, Clay, whathappened?
And he's like well, I set thisthing on fire and then it
wouldn't go out.
So I stopped, dropped androlled on it.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
Clay, he listened, misunderstood the assignment.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
He listened, understood the assignment, he
rolled around on the fire.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
I was going to say misunderstood the assignment,
but yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
He heard stop drop and roll.
He knew he got the DARE programor whatever.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
This just popped into my head.
So I think we've talked aboutClay's big party recently.
That was a huge success and hecalled the police on himself to
go ahead and tell them.
I was on a girl's trip and shelives in Clay's neighborhood.
She does not know, that's yourchild and she's talking about
this band party.
That happened.
She has a three-year-old andshe's like and I was out in my
(08:07):
yard I called my city councilmember about it and I was like
I'm like 99.9% sure that wasLaura's child and she keeps
saying Clay, that's the citycouncil member actually, okay,
and she's like I'm.
She was like, and I asked Claywhat he was going to be doing
about this and I was like, andso I got all confused.
But bottom line, clay is stillpeeping outside the rules and I
(08:29):
love it.
He upset a whole block ofmothers.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Well he does.
He is the only house thathasn't been flipped on history,
and it truly should be condemned.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Well I said, did he play late?
Because I thought the wholedeal.
She was like no, it was likeeight.
She was like pissed, she agedwell, it happens, all right.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
So today we're talking about co-parenting, the
do's, the don'ts and the oh shitokay well, we all three
co-parent.
We all three had to co-parent.
I thankfully I'm past thatstage.
Clay is I'm gonna call himgrown-ish, launched launched, if
you will.
Um, I, thinking back on this, Iknow that there were seasons
where it was done really, reallywell, like I was just a super
(09:11):
young mom and we were not a goodfit and we parted and tried to
make it as cool and normal forClay and Clay had a really great
experience, I think, with ourco-parenting until he was like
eight or nine and we had to movefrom my job and that made it
just really challenging, I think, for his dad to stay as
involved as he had been, as Ithink it would if you move four
(09:33):
hours away.
But I will say, anytime therewas another person that rolled
on the scene, so like when hewas dating someone or if I was
accidentally marrying someone.
Obviously, which happened acouple of times, that would make
it.
It make it creates new tensionthat you have to navigate and I
(09:57):
think that's hard, ultimatelywhen you're young or when
there's a lot of still like bigemotions around, maybe a divorce
or whatever.
I think sometimes it's reallyeasy to forget that there's like
a little human who's watchingand feeling everything, because
kids, even though they're notarticulating it, they feel all
(10:17):
the things Um and so myexperience in co-parenting was
really good for Clay's firstseven years, as train wreck of a
life as I might have beenliving.
Truly it was not that great,but that's mine.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Well, y'all both co-parented in different states
for a while.
That's hard.
I mean, you were there a lot.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Yeah, for a little while and we knew like there was
a temporary kind of thing andsome point.
This would have been in, uh,2019 maybe or 2018, I guess.
Colleen, who is the kid's mom,my ex-wife she said, hey, I'm
being transferred to new york.
You and danielle come with me.
(10:58):
Like, come up there, live upthere, that'd be great.
I was like, yeah, I can't do.
Like danielle has a teachingjob and I have a radio show.
Like you don't just get radioshows.
It's not like being anaccountant or a salesman or
something.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
What do you mean?
You couldn't just get a newradio show Will?
Speaker 3 (11:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
New.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
York.
Why not?
Yeah, right, you're really cool.
Okay, exactly yeah.
And so I was like it's not athing.
So we worked out this plan ofsplitting time between New York
and Birmingham, and the kidswould be here whenever they
weren't in school, like evenlong weekends or whatever, and
we were like let's just embracethe experience and let's do it.
And so it was cool, becauseI've worked in New York a lot,
(11:35):
but I've never just hung in.
I've hung in New York, but I'venever spent my days.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
That's an extended amount of time.
That's awesome.
And how long was it?
Speaker 3 (11:43):
Well, so it was supposed to be three to four
years and it ended up being ayear and a half because COVID,
so a year and a half of, yeah,up there.
You know they were here allsummers and like Christmas
breaks and spring breaks and allthat, but then I was up every
few weeks and, you know, didlike runs in Central Park and
their field trips were toCarnegie Hall and like.
(12:06):
So it was a really coolexperience and they got to be
minorities in their school,which I loved.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Yeah, I thought that was awesome.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
What a great experience for them to just have
that, like I would say,cultural shock, because if
you're in Alabama and then youmove to New York, just that in
itself is overload and COVID'sthe worst, but man, it was the
best as far as, like they werereally ready to come back at
that point and the kids were,and so they did Like they flew
home.
(12:31):
The craziest situation of lastflight out.
I mean legit, because my buddyis at Delta and he's texting me
like hey, the plane took off.
Good news, last flight, theygot out of LaGuardia.
Nope, they're sending it back.
They're sending it back.
I'm like no, they can't send itback.
Hey, whatever, I have a videoof me in the Birmingham airport.
(12:53):
I'm the only person.
There's nobody at any of thedesks, there's nobody working
anywhere.
I'm just the only person inthis ghost town of an airport
waiting for this one flight tocome.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
In the whole, everything is planes just parked
everywhere wow, because everyflight was just stopping and
parking it's been five yearsy'all this month.
Five years, yeah, so two weeks.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
The 14th was the day everything shut down yep, and
then the 21st, which is comingup, uh, tomorrow, two days as we
record this, that's when theflight came in.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Whoa.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
Because I was supposed to fly up there on the
22nd and they ended up flyinghome on the 21st.
That's wild Wow.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
And I think like just a little more backstory,
because you, how old were yourkids when you and Colleen
divorced?
Speaker 3 (13:38):
So very young, which plays into the story.
So, uh, colleen came to meearly on and was like I don't
like you.
I think, yeah, pretty much,pretty much.
And I was like what it wasn'tjust that, but it's like, hey,
we need to go to camp because mypersonality is very like
(13:59):
motorcycle riding, radio hosting, kind of not nine to five, yeah
, and she really likes, shereally likes, likes.
You know, structure.
We just had these, thesedifferences and I thought like,
well, whatever, that's not a bigdeal.
But it turns out it was a bigdeal.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
And so what we came?
The conclusion we came tothrough counseling and whatever
was like.
We really like each other,we're great friends and all that
, but we're not reallycompatible in a long-term
marriage relationship.
So I say this all the time I donot recommend divorce.
It's the best thing that's everhappened for us Right now.
The text I got four minutes agois from her husband Now, like
(14:40):
we all were vacationing somewhattogether next week for spring
break?
Yeah, so it's one of thesethings we work really well
together as a family.
We still send funny texts backand forth and all that and but
no, we should not have beenmarried.
I'm glad we got married becauseobviously lila and liam but
yeah, and that's not going tostop that relationship, because
(15:02):
now they have two new kids thatare lila and liam's like half
siblings, yeah.
So of course we're all stillgoing to do our Christmas stuff
together.
We do, like go over to herhouse for Christmas and I went
to a counselor by myself and shewas like, look, if, if this is
going to happen, it's best tolet it happen now, as opposed to
like when they're teenagers orwhatever, because right now
(15:22):
they're not going to know anydifference.
It'll just be the way.
So like basicallyam was anewborn and lilo was two or
three so he was like one, yeah.
Yeah, they were little little,and so they have never seen us
like argue or they've never seenany kind of cross.
They just know the way it worksand it's a fluid situation and
danielle's been in their lifefor yeah danielle and I started
(15:44):
dating that year, so yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
I love that we're starting with the like positives
.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
Yeah, sorry, because there can be a lot of positives,
oh, but I do have like adviceabout this and so like I have a
neighbor recently that wentthrough a situation and you know
we're not that close, but hecame to me.
He's like, hey, I know you'vebeen through this.
Like what, do it, but it's thebest.
And I was like you have to, nomatter what, just be the bigger
person.
I don't know if he's the biggerperson or not in that situation
(16:11):
, I don't know what's going onwith them, but I was like
whatever it is, just always bethe bigger person.
Like don't are, there's nosense in arguing about it.
Like if you can just always tryto be the bigger person and
make the best of every singleconversation and situation, then
it's going to be pretty easyfor you.
And that counselor had told mewhich I didn't have this concern
(16:32):
.
Oh, I think I'd asked her likewhat if Colleen which I've never
thought she would but I waslike what if she gets into some
horrible relationship right witha guy?
And I remember the counselorsaying the positive influence,
if you have a positive influenceon one side, will outweigh the
negative influence.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Kids are I was going to say kids are really attracted
to health.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
Yeah, right, and that's what she said.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Yeah, so like they want to be around the healthy
parent, I think.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
Which, again for the record, I was not actually.
I trust Colleen 100%, so Ididn't think that would happen,
but I was just like goingthrough.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
You don't even have to say that.
Do you know how normal it isfor a man to be walking or like
separating from the person hewas married to?
And knowing like another manwill play a role in your
children's life and being afraid, or same thing.
for a mom like I think it wasalways like, oh my gosh,
especially with Clay's dad.
I would be like I need to makesure I I mean I was a psychopath
(17:29):
, but I was like, well, thatcan't be, they're not going to
get out crazy me, I'm justkidding, but kind of not All
right.
What about you?
How old were your kids?
Speaker 2 (17:39):
They were three and five and we don't go into the
whole history but William, theirdad, we met when I was 12.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
Like that's wild.
That's too young to get married, claire.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Yeah that's All right .
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Okay, alabama, I was about to say, wow, we dated tons
of other people.
But my point is we had a reallysolid friendship for many, many
years.
Let's see, I was 26 or 27 whenbirdie was born, so more than
half my life to that point hadhim in it.
So there's a pretty good basefor friendship, and so fast
(18:18):
forward to co-parenting.
I am not going to lie and saythat like we had it all set up
right or it was nevercontentious it definitely was,
and there was tears and I saidshitty things, I'm sure, um, but
from day one it was best forkids, best for the kids, best
for the kids.
So we never had like pettyarguments.
(18:39):
They were like jealousy wasnever a part of the equation.
Um, I'm a worrier, so like Iprobably like overstepped some
lines being I heard it was goingto rain.
Are they prepared with lifejackets?
I know that's what I do.
I am the mom that calls.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
Okay, Shane.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Spann, we get it.
Look, I was out of town lastweekend when the tornadoes were
coming through.
I was in a basement, lockedthere with Shane.
I texted my ex-husband no lessthan 20 times because as a
separated family, I'm like like,do they have helmets?
Is the basement of it, don'tleave the house.
And like he knows me wellenough to be like, got it, but
(19:16):
that was like our priority.
So if we ever spun out, italways came back to like what do
they need?
What do they need?
So we'll say, be the biggerperson.
Mine is like, take the highroad.
And it was just so useless toget into like nitty-gritty
things that really didn't matter.
And a gift that William gave methat I didn't have is he was
(19:39):
like we have to stick to thisschedule for years and it really
bothered me at first.
I'm like he's so inflexible,but what a gift that was.
Because, thank God, because ifthey were tearful, like I don't
want to leave mom, I'm a mother,of course.
I'm like, well, just don't,it's fine, but he's a great dad.
So there was no situation wherethey didn't need to go there.
(20:02):
He kept me so consistent and Iwent from so irritated by that
to so grateful, because they gotin the rhythm.
Like they knew what to expectat dad's house, they knew what
to expect at mom's house, andthat consistency, and that
structure was beyond helpful.
So I think my biggest twotakeaways are consistency and
(20:22):
structure are actually a reallygood thing.
As much as I preach flexibility, consistency and structure and
in the same vein as well, likelet that shit go, it is not your
children's problem.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
So was there no flexibility in the schedule.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
I'm going to be honest for like several years,
zero.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
Like there couldn't be or there just didn't need to
be.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
I think could.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
He was like not going to do it the downside for me.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
Well, I mean that's fine because at least you can
build your schedule around it.
So if you want to plan avacation or something like that,
you build it around that.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
I built my life around every other weekend
basically, and Wednesday nights.
That was my life as they gotolder and it was like I mean,
like right now we have two kidsand two different activities at
the same time on the same days,but we've built enough like
trust and stability to be likeyou got this one, can you do
(21:21):
pick up, or I've got it, I'mgood.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
but I really have to say that came from years of
rebuilding our trust in aco-parenting dynamic, not the
marriage dynamic that isdifferent, and I will say too,
like I think, um and this is memore having a front row like I
was very young and um, like Iwas 20 when I had Clay and
almost 21 and his dad was only acouple years older than me, and
(21:46):
like you know, he, you're 21.
I was 20 when I gave birth 20and literally turned 21 like a
month, two months later, becauseChloe was born May 30th and I
turned 21 July 17th.
Yeah, um, obviously preparedduh.
Having never seen anyone motherme, I was ready to be a mom.
(22:08):
But I want to say this I've hada front row seat of some really
profound co-parenting over theyears.
Just because, unfortunately, inour society still, divorce rate
is 50% you know, it floatsaround 50% in most communities
and so you're going to have afriend.
Even if you haven't experienceddivorce, you probably have a
(22:30):
friend who is and who'snavigating co-parenting.
The people I see do it wellunderstand that co-parenting has
nothing to do with your failedmarriage.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Amen.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
Nothing.
And if you cannot separate thetwo, you will end up with
children who really don't likeyou or might even hate you
eventually.
Because, back to what Will said, that your therapist said to
you children are attracted tohealth, it is true, so they're
going to be drawn to the healthyparent and the best gift you
(23:03):
can give your kids.
Hello, neighbor dog.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
That's Hank.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Hello Hank, we love you, he's the best um, but like,
the best thing you can do andthis is what I always tell my
friends is like you do have tolet that shit go and also you
can't control.
If you have a co-parentingsituation where your co-parent
partner is suck and win andthey're not showing up and
they're not consistent, you haveto take a step back and decide
(23:27):
what is the right thing for yourchild.
Not why are you pissed off atthem, not fighting with them,
not arguing with them, but howdo you take care of your kid?
Because you are raising a grownman or a grown woman.
Eventually they have to get tothat place and you have to
decide what do they need?
Speaker 2 (23:44):
And we'll get into more of the don'ts, but I will
also say, for women,no-transcript.
(24:09):
But my community was so, so, sostrong.
I'm sure I've talked about this.
Laura bought me a dining roomtable, and your friends don't
have to buy you dining sets,call me.
I had to have a table, okay.
And then my neighbor, amanda,who I've talked about.
She would come over.
My kids are super little likeshe'd put them in the bathtub
while I got dinner ready, and somy co-parent went beyond my
(24:33):
former spouse.
It went into this village thatI created because I had to wave
a white flag some days and belike I can't.
Can you pick up this kid whileI do this?
And those are your tier onepeople, if you're vulnerable
enough to ask for it.
I didn't have a grandma to call.
I didn't have a grandpa or anuncle or whoever.
It was me, yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
Yeah, and I will say super lucky the grandparents.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
I knew you weren't taking care of that newborn all
by yourself.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
I know you had.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, for I was good at that.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
I was good at that I bet you were really good at that
.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
But at the same time, my parents live like in this
neighborhood.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Yeah, so my mom's over here all the time.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
But then, like, from that point, I think one thing
that makes my relationship withColleen so easy is we don't have
to really worry about, like,the transporting back and forth,
because it's Bobbo.
Bob Lockham, he's a full-timejob, job like he right now is
there waiting for Liam to getdone with pole vaulting practice
(25:31):
, to take him to his haircut,and then I'll go pick up Lila a
minute from her track practice.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Let's talk a little bit about that, because I do
want to say like it is differentwhen you have that support
system in your backyard or rightdown the street and if you're a
mom or you're, or even a dadand I think sometimes it's even
scarier for dads because you'rekind of like, wait what?
but if you don't have thosepeople, I think it goes back to
(25:54):
if you have not listened to ourtier one, tier two, tier three,
friends um developing those andfinding community to get
involved in and being vulnerableenough to ask for help yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
so nick, who lives across street, like I've checked
his daughter out from schoolmultiple times and taken her to
the airport and stuff while he'straveling.
So, yeah, you need to have, ortry to find, those friends you
can depend on them.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
This is for the moms.
Here's a don't your ex-husband.
There's a great shot thatthey're not preparing the same
meals that you previouslyprepared.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
You're kidding what I'm not saying.
It's you, it's not.
They're not organic.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
So, and if you have daughters, that dad is likely
not dressing them the same waywhen they're little, that you
might dress them in theirsmocked outfits, or your little
boy in his monogrammed bubble,let it go.
Let it go Because I can promiseyou there is not one adult
child that's come to me intherapy and been like my dad
bought me the wrong leggingswhen I was four like it doesn't
happen here.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
I mean I, I maybe sent lila to school one time in
a really cute dress.
That was a pool cover-up maybemaybe it happened maybe it
happened.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
It was cute and here's a do to off balance that
the do is talk good about their,their parent.
For god's sake, talk good talkgood about their mom, talk good
about their dad, and here's whyyou win nothing by being
passive-aggressive.
And honestly like this is aperson who made these little
(27:28):
people with you.
Their dna runs in their blood,and speaking the good things
about that person behind theirback will allow them to to
cultivate a healthy perceptionof a parent.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
That is also by the way I know this is shocking
imperfect, as it turns out yeah,and if that other parent or you
or whatever has these flawsthat maybe need to be shown to
the child, the child will seethem they will figure you don't
have to tell the child about it.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
They will see them okay, my best friend is a single
mom of 9 000 so many children Icannot, and one of the things
that has infuriated, infuriatedme and inspired me over the last
since 2017, 18, of watching herdo this with such grace, is
that she has never taken a lowblow, never.
(28:18):
She has never gone below thebelt.
She only only talks good abouttheir dad, and when she doesn't
have something nice to say, sheis just not talking.
That does not mean you don'tever get to vent.
You just have to vent to yourpeople, not to your children.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Never vent about their parent to your kids and
when, and if that child is likemommy said this or did this, or
daddy did this and I didn't likelike whatever it is, if they
have something and they'relittle and they're talking about
their other parent you canvalidate the kid's feelings.
That must be really hard.
You know what I need to talk tothem about, that Like we need
to have a grown-up conversationbecause I know it's important.
(28:56):
So then you've just neutralizedit.
It's not that you're ignoringthat kid's feelings, it's that
Like I don't think you have tobe like blank.
If they're upset with the otherparent, it happens.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Do try to find ways to make it normal for your kids
to be around.
Both of you, I think that I'veseen.
You know I would say that mybonus son Ethan we have it took
a really long time but finallygot to a place where we could be
in the same room with his momand Shane and me, and I think
(29:34):
it's really kind and healthy foryour kids to see that they
matter more than whatever craphas happened.
It wasn't their fault that therewas a divorce, right.
And I think that as long asthey never feel like that and
the way that they don't feelthat way, is when you and your
ex can be big enough people tobe in the same room supporting
(29:56):
them.
And that means maybe you don'thave to sit right next to each
other, but sitting in the samearea at a band concert or
showing up to a birthday partyand not making it weird, so they
don't have to have multiplebirthday parties.
And I'm not saying that's rightfor every family, because it's
certainly not, but in themoments you can collaborate, I
think, as long as it is not sotension-oriented that it makes
(30:21):
it super weird for the kid.
And look, in some cases itmight be, but if it isn't and
you can do that, man, do that Ithink we have to.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
We should say we're talking about adults that aren't
actively on drugs, drinking orabusive like I think, I was
about to say good point.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
I was about to say the exact same thing of like you
know, we have ignored thatthere are some really terrible
situations where you shouldisolate at some point.
And yeah, because food abuseand stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Obviously, boundaries are really important and I
would say like, if you're not intherapy and you're navigating
something, if your ex or thefather or mother of your
children is struggling with drugabuse or alcohol abuse or
physical or mental abuse any ofthose things, emotional abuse,
whatever it's called Findsomebody to talk to who's a
professional, who can help youwalk through what those
(31:11):
boundaries need to look like.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
When and if you're with a healthy individual that
you don't want to be married toanymore and you want an
uncontentious divorce.
Let's say you're in thebeginning, william and I I will
will never forget we met at arestaurant to talk about, like,
our ideals for custody and thatwas what my attorney said.
She was like you, like wedidn't go through mediation, we
had, we had no back and forth.
(31:34):
It was probably world's easiestdivorce for the kids, by the
way, because I could have been areal jerk and been like I'm
keeping the house and everything, but like that did not benefit
my children.
Material possessions don'tnecessarily benefit your
children.
So we met I will never forget,and I had a little legal pad,
like with my ideas and weliterally just had to talk about
(31:56):
it wasn't that we had to agreein that moment, but when you're,
when you're in a neutrallocation, like not the house
you've been living in or thehouse someone else moved into,
it is a neutral space andhopefully, as I say, no one's
going to yell or cry I don'tmind crying in public, so, but
for the most part you get tojust be neutral, like that's
what this is all about.
How do I neutrally suggest whatI think is best for these
(32:19):
people.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
And I think another do is like be curious and not
accusatory.
I think sometimes, like you'revery protective of your children
, everybody is and so, let's say, a new person rolls on the
scene and your kid comes homeand they tell you an outlandish
story that you're like I'm goingto go blow up his truck right
now because that doesn't workfor me.
(32:41):
Remember that your kids arekids.
Their brains are not fullydeveloped.
Their perception of a scenarioor a story is is very based on
their lens that they see theworld in and what they think is
fair and right and equitable.
And so I would tell you toapproach your, your co parent
with curiosity and notaccusations.
(33:03):
It will make for a healthiercommunication strategy all along
.
But if you go to somebody andsay, hey, I just have some
questions, because Clay camehome and he was saying that you
know, your girlfriend jumped onthe hood of your car when you
were trying to leave in themiddle of the night, and I'm
just wondering if that was true,or maybe like a fever dream and
(33:24):
of course he said that was truewe got in a fight and I was
like, okay, well, that's notreally going to work for me ever
, so I'll murder you.
So you know, if you have anyhood jumping going on, you may
want to just approach that witha curiosity.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
A curious mind.
If you're married and you'relike what?
You can still use every bit ofthis in a parenting in the same
house.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
Truly, honestly it is hard, Because here's the thing
Because we're perfect parents.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
I guess that's kind of what I'm getting at.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
As your kids get older too, man, it gets even
harder, because you know they'vegot one of y'all that they've
pegged as the one that they canget away with murder with.
And then they have the otherone that's a little more
practical and like rulefollowing Like, but did you do
these 20 things on the checklistbefore you go do that?
So I feel like these tacticswork for that too.
And, by the way, we're talkingto y'all from a place of real
(34:23):
expertise, because I neveractually had an ex-husband whose
girlfriend jumped on his hoodin the middle of the night.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
I was wondering where that came from.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
I did.
Speaker 3 (34:32):
So notes for the show really quick.
This is another outside right.
So there's Hank barking,there's a child down here
hooting and hollering.
There's tons of wind, it'sbeautiful outside Bird chirping
Beautiful G.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
There's tons of wind.
It's beautiful outside Birdchirping, beautiful, gorgeous.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
I know the.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
Merlin app 74 degrees .
Speaker 3 (34:47):
Pulled it up this morning on the show.
I talked about it on the showthis morning, the radio show.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
Claire is in a sweater vest with nothing
underneath, because that's likethe vibe, just a sweater vest.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
You'll have to tune in to the Instagram.
She's only wearing a sweatervest and flats and nothing else.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
And one last note, if again you're not from the South
.
I didn't want to interrupt thestory, but Laura mentioned a
meet and three.
If you're unfamiliar.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
You need to go to Johnny's in Homewood.
You need to put that on yourlist.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
You need to go to Nicky's and Johnny's.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
Both of you may get yelled at Both of them.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
Oh no, tim's going to yell at you if you get a.
Johnny's, don't you dare stepout of that line, but Nikki's
100%.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
So, nikki's, you're going to get yelled at, but a
meat and three is where you pickyour protein, the meat and your
three is your veggies.
I'm classically meat and three,never meat and two, meat and
four.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
And when she says veggies, she means mac and
cheese, of course.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
Mashed potatoes, black eyed peas, greens,
whatever.
If you go to Nikki's, this istheir advertising with us.
I'm just kidding they wouldliterally.
They're like what's a podcastCultural?
Yes, you better not haverollers in your hair or be on
your cell phone or you will beasked to leave.
I mean, I've never worn rollers, but that's on their door.
But if you're on your phone.
They're like out with you.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
And if you step out of line and go get a table, they
will throw your food away Likethey will literally toss your
and they do not give a shit.
You have to be careful who youtake to Nikki's.
You do.
They need to be your rulefollowers.
You have to know what's up.
Google it.
Speaker 3 (36:12):
All right, I'm going to take my doctor friend that
was up here visiting and I needto explain that sounded so
pompous.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
We joke and we call him a doctor.
Speaker 3 (36:26):
That's why we call him a doctor, to make fun.
Yeah, sorry, it's a funny thing, so that was not a pompous
thing earlier.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
I like that you had to come back.
Speaker 3 (36:34):
The whole podcast.
I've been thinking like when amI going to bring up the?
I have to explain I have a.
I know we have lots of doctorfriends.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
Shout out to Dr.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
Carl, but I wouldn't say it.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
Shout out to Dr Carl.
We refer to him as our.
He loves it.
He texts me the other day he'slike I heard the podcast.
Thanks for the shout out.
Yeah, I got a guy for that.
He helps us look like this.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
I have mentioned other doctors in the show and I
haven't called them that.
We just call yeah, you saw whata jerk that Will can be today.
What a God you know he has adoctor friend.
One time we were at hisbachelor party and one of his
techs like his pharmacy techs.
We saw her down at the beach aswe were walking Like in the
wild.
In the wild exactly, and I waslike, oh you know, Dr Blah Blah
(37:20):
Blah and Dr Blah Blah Blah, andshe's like he's not a doctor.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
He went, I am a doctor, before you Cut Bangs is
hosted by Laura Quick and ClaireFeerman and produced by Will
Lockhamy.
Follow along with us everywhere.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
Please subscribe to the podcast.
Find us on Instagram.
We're constantly doing polls.
We want to know what you think,and I know that you probably
know this, but reviewing us andgiving us five stars matters
more than anything, and we areso grateful to have you here.
Welcome to.
Before you Cut Bangs, I'm LauraQuick and I'm Claire.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Fehrman.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
I am a professional storyteller and I'm currently
working on my first book.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
I have worked in mental health for many years in
lots of capacities and this is areally important time to tell
you our big disclaimer this isnot therapy.
We are not your therapists orcoaches or anything like that.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Yeah, I mean you shouldn't really trust us very
much at all.
Unless you want to and it turnsout well, then you can trust us
.
That's great, okay.
So I was at a restaurantrecently getting something to
drink and this guy walked up tome and he said getting something
to drink.
And this guy walked up to meand he said every friday I'm
(00:46):
refreshing my spotify,constantly waiting to see if
there's another podcast.
A man, a man and then his wifeis like yeah, sometimes we get
to listen together and sometimeswe listen separately and then
we like talk about it when weget home from work.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Did you know?
Speaker 1 (01:02):
him.
I do know him, but I didn'tknow that.
I mean when I tell you this isthe least suspecting man that
you would ever think.
This guy is like no, I did notthink that he would be listening
to the podcast, but he's like Ilove it it feels good.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
It does, yeah, I had a doctor friend that was in town
from out of town and he wastalking about the podcast and he
was like telling his wife likeyou got to be hearing this and
like telling her all about it,guys.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
I know it's so cute, it feels great.
I know it's nice.
Thanks, guys.
It really does help and make usthink, wow, we're doing this
and you really like it.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
We like to be liked well, in the name of our, for
the sake of, or some phrase likethat.
We're talking aboutco-parenting, because somebody
requested it to Laura, not me.
So I think our little firstquestion should be just like a
horrifyingly but funny parentingmoment, like I don't want to be
(02:00):
traumatized today and I alreadyhave one, I just thought of it,
that was really funny and Icould think of a thousand.
But like, all right, like areyou sorry, then my kids are like
a little nudist colony, likethey have always been that way,
just like, and I'm a naked mom,you know, like no shame, like
change whatever.
And when, when we lived in thisneighborhood, we were at the
(02:20):
Chick-fil-a nearby and Gus wasprobably three and I was tired,
like I had two really young kids, so Gus was probably two really
, and then Birdie was probablyfour, and you know that age, if
you work or don't work, that'sjust a lot.
And so I was finally relaxingat the Chick-fil-A.
(02:42):
They were playing in the playplace when you still could
before covid and I hear anothermother say there's a naked
little boy in there and I don'teven look like, I didn't even
consider that it could have beenmy kid.
And then someone else sayssomething, and I look and
there's my naked little boy.
Nothing, not a stitch ofclothing On him, his little boy
(03:05):
parts Hanging out and he's inthat bubble.
You know the bubble Sure.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Sure, just like Magnifying glass Living his life
, and that was that.
How old again?
Two, two.
Yeah, it's great, he felt good,that's great.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
You know, and like I In those moments I'm not really
a panicker, I'm just like let'sget dressed and head out, I
think that was our time to wrapit up here.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
I wonder what his motivation was.
There Felt like it.
I mean I'll say like with Liam,like I told him, because at the
farm you could country tinkle.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
You didn't have to do the rest of it you could just
go country tinkle somewhere.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Say what that is, in case someone doesn't live in the
South.
Sure, I guess you call itYankee tingling if you're in the
North, but it's basically whereyou don't go to a restroom but
you just hide behind a tree orgo just whatever, just a little
bit away from people.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Well, it depends how far in the country, because
sometimes you just pee right offthe front porch Whatever On a
flat rock, if you will.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Yeah, and that was the problem with Liam because I
taught him like hey, country,tinkle over behind, you know
somewhere over here.
But then one day he was justdoing it right here in the front
yard, like just in the frontyard, and I was like whoa, whoa,
dude, that's not.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
That's not a country tinkle, that's a neighborhood
tinkle, that's city tinkling,city tinkling.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
City tinkling right there.
So mine was and this is on me,not my children Something I did,
embarrassing but just like aweek ago and I've not admitted
this, I've told anyone aboutthis but Lila had a track meet,
as she does, and I went and waswatching and it was real cold
and whatever.
It's a stadium I'm not familiarwith, right, so I don't know
(04:38):
where the restrooms are andwhatever and I see like Did you
shit your pants, no Good Lord.
And I see like Did you shityour pants?
Speaker 1 (04:45):
No, Good lord Laura, who else?
Good lord, we were hoping, wewere just hoping he's so
embarrassed, he's literally red.
Good lord Laura, no, I just hadto take a restroom tinkle.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
Okay okay, yeah, a proper tinkle.
And so there's the women's onthis side.
I see that, and so I just goover here to the men's.
But it turns out it's one ofthose, uh, where it's, you know,
wraps around, and the men's wasprobably the other side.
But here's the thing, whatever,if I walk in and it's like, you
(05:15):
know, grown women or somethinglike that, sorry about that,
girls track me but just a roomfull of teenage girls, some of
them Lila's classmates, some not, and it's me, the dad, walking
into the girls' restroom.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
This is what you're embarrassing, dad.
I bolted Lila doesn't know, shehas no idea she might, I'd
probably pretty one of the mosttragic things I said no tragedy
today.
No, no no, this is like.
This is a classic Clay, themost Clay thing of all time.
So in an exchange, clay goingto his dad's, sometimes my dad
(05:53):
when I lived still in Savannahwould intercept and hang out
with him for a little while, andmy family loves meeting threes.
Who doesn't?
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Yeah, sure.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Very so there was this one meet and three in the
town that I grew up in.
That's just like in a house,you know, and you go and you
whatever.
So my dad has him and I get acall from my dad and he's like
hey, you need to get here.
Like now, the police and thefire department are on their way
, clay has set this restauranton fire and I was like I'm sorry
(06:25):
, 'm sorry, I was like well,he's with you, so good luck with
that.
And he starts laughing and he'slike well, he did set it on
fire, but just so you know.
He goes in the bathroom and oneof my friends had taught him a
paper towel trick which is likeif you get a regular paper towel
and you put it in a candle, itjust like evaporates like very
fast.
Something you would never tell aseven-year-old child ever.
(06:47):
And Clay loved magic when hewas a kid, like obsessed with
magic.
Very on brand also for Clay andhe was.
So he went in the bathroom andthey had these industrial paper
towels which do not do the samething.
They burn, so it's burning.
Clay's freaking out becauseit's not evaporating.
He drops on the floor, thefloor catches on fire and Clay
(07:10):
comes out of the bathroom and mydad said he was like covered in
soot, Like completely.
His little white polo fromschool was like covered.
And he said, Clay, whathappened?
And he's like well, I set thisthing on fire and then it
wouldn't go out.
So I stopped, dropped androlled on it.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
Clay, he listened, misunderstood the assignment.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
He listened, understood the assignment, he
rolled around on the fire.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
I was going to say misunderstood the assignment,
but yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
He heard stop drop and roll.
He knew he got the DARE programor whatever.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
This just popped into my head.
So I think we've talked aboutClay's big party recently.
That was a huge success and hecalled the police on himself to
go ahead and tell them.
I was on a girl's trip and shelives in Clay's neighborhood.
She does not know, that's yourchild and she's talking about
this band party.
That happened.
She has a three-year-old andshe's like and I was out in my
(08:07):
yard I called my city councilmember about it and I was like
I'm like 99.9% sure that wasLaura's child and she keeps
saying Clay, that's the citycouncil member actually, okay,
and she's like I'm.
She was like, and I asked Claywhat he was going to be doing
about this and I was like, andso I got all confused.
But bottom line, clay is stillpeeping outside the rules and I
(08:29):
love it.
He upset a whole block ofmothers.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Well he does.
He is the only house thathasn't been flipped on history,
and it truly should be condemned.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Well I said, did he play late?
Because I thought the wholedeal.
She was like no, it was likeeight.
She was like pissed, she agedwell, it happens, all right.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
So today we're talking about co-parenting, the
do's, the don'ts and the oh shitokay well, we all three
co-parent.
We all three had to co-parent.
I thankfully I'm past thatstage.
Clay is I'm gonna call himgrown-ish, launched launched, if
you will.
Um, I, thinking back on this, Iknow that there were seasons
where it was done really, reallywell, like I was just a super
(09:11):
young mom and we were not a goodfit and we parted and tried to
make it as cool and normal forClay and Clay had a really great
experience, I think, with ourco-parenting until he was like
eight or nine and we had to movefrom my job and that made it
just really challenging, I think, for his dad to stay as
involved as he had been, as Ithink it would if you move four
(09:33):
hours away.
But I will say, anytime therewas another person that rolled
on the scene, so like when hewas dating someone or if I was
accidentally marrying someone.
Obviously, which happened acouple of times, that would make
it.
It make it creates new tensionthat you have to navigate and I
(09:57):
think that's hard, ultimatelywhen you're young or when
there's a lot of still like bigemotions around, maybe a divorce
or whatever.
I think sometimes it's reallyeasy to forget that there's like
a little human who's watchingand feeling everything, because
kids, even though they're notarticulating it, they feel all
(10:17):
the things Um and so myexperience in co-parenting was
really good for Clay's firstseven years, as train wreck of a
life as I might have beenliving.
Truly it was not that great,but that's mine.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Well, y'all both co-parented in different states
for a while.
That's hard.
I mean, you were there a lot.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Yeah, for a little while and we knew like there was
a temporary kind of thing andsome point.
This would have been in, uh,2019 maybe or 2018, I guess.
Colleen, who is the kid's mom,my ex-wife she said, hey, I'm
being transferred to new york.
You and danielle come with me.
(10:58):
Like, come up there, live upthere, that'd be great.
I was like, yeah, I can't do.
Like danielle has a teachingjob and I have a radio show.
Like you don't just get radioshows.
It's not like being anaccountant or a salesman or
something.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
What do you mean?
You couldn't just get a newradio show Will?
Speaker 3 (11:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
New.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
York.
Why not?
Yeah, right, you're really cool.
Okay, exactly yeah.
And so I was like it's not athing.
So we worked out this plan ofsplitting time between New York
and Birmingham, and the kidswould be here whenever they
weren't in school, like evenlong weekends or whatever, and
we were like let's just embracethe experience and let's do it.
And so it was cool, becauseI've worked in New York a lot,
(11:35):
but I've never just hung in.
I've hung in New York, but I'venever spent my days.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
That's an extended amount of time.
That's awesome.
And how long was it?
Speaker 3 (11:43):
Well, so it was supposed to be three to four
years and it ended up being ayear and a half because COVID,
so a year and a half of, yeah,up there.
You know they were here allsummers and like Christmas
breaks and spring breaks and allthat, but then I was up every
few weeks and, you know, didlike runs in Central Park and
their field trips were toCarnegie Hall and like.
(12:06):
So it was a really coolexperience and they got to be
minorities in their school,which I loved.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Yeah, I thought that was awesome.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
What a great experience for them to just have
that, like I would say,cultural shock, because if
you're in Alabama and then youmove to New York, just that in
itself is overload and COVID'sthe worst, but man, it was the
best as far as, like they werereally ready to come back at
that point and the kids were,and so they did Like they flew
home.
(12:31):
The craziest situation of lastflight out.
I mean legit, because my buddyis at Delta and he's texting me
like hey, the plane took off.
Good news, last flight, theygot out of LaGuardia.
Nope, they're sending it back.
They're sending it back.
I'm like no, they can't send itback.
Hey, whatever, I have a videoof me in the Birmingham airport.
(12:53):
I'm the only person.
There's nobody at any of thedesks, there's nobody working
anywhere.
I'm just the only person inthis ghost town of an airport
waiting for this one flight tocome.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
In the whole, everything is planes just parked
everywhere wow, because everyflight was just stopping and
parking it's been five yearsy'all this month.
Five years, yeah, so two weeks.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
The 14th was the day everything shut down yep, and
then the 21st, which is comingup, uh, tomorrow, two days as we
record this, that's when theflight came in.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Whoa.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
Because I was supposed to fly up there on the
22nd and they ended up flyinghome on the 21st.
That's wild Wow.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
And I think like just a little more backstory,
because you, how old were yourkids when you and Colleen
divorced?
Speaker 3 (13:38):
So very young, which plays into the story.
So, uh, colleen came to meearly on and was like I don't
like you.
I think, yeah, pretty much,pretty much.
And I was like what it wasn'tjust that, but it's like, hey,
we need to go to camp because mypersonality is very like
(13:59):
motorcycle riding, radio hosting, kind of not nine to five, yeah
, and she really likes, shereally likes, likes.
You know, structure.
We just had these, thesedifferences and I thought like,
well, whatever, that's not a bigdeal.
But it turns out it was a bigdeal.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
And so what we came?
The conclusion we came tothrough counseling and whatever
was like.
We really like each other,we're great friends and all that
, but we're not reallycompatible in a long-term
marriage relationship.
So I say this all the time I donot recommend divorce.
It's the best thing that's everhappened for us Right now.
The text I got four minutes agois from her husband Now, like
(14:40):
we all were vacationing somewhattogether next week for spring
break?
Yeah, so it's one of thesethings we work really well
together as a family.
We still send funny texts backand forth and all that and but
no, we should not have beenmarried.
I'm glad we got married becauseobviously lila and liam but
yeah, and that's not going tostop that relationship, because
(15:02):
now they have two new kids thatare lila and liam's like half
siblings, yeah.
So of course we're all stillgoing to do our Christmas stuff
together.
We do, like go over to herhouse for Christmas and I went
to a counselor by myself and shewas like, look, if, if this is
going to happen, it's best tolet it happen now, as opposed to
like when they're teenagers orwhatever, because right now
(15:22):
they're not going to know anydifference.
It'll just be the way.
So like basicallyam was anewborn and lilo was two or
three so he was like one, yeah.
Yeah, they were little little,and so they have never seen us
like argue or they've never seenany kind of cross.
They just know the way it worksand it's a fluid situation and
danielle's been in their lifefor yeah danielle and I started
(15:44):
dating that year, so yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
I love that we're starting with the like positives
.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
Yeah, sorry, because there can be a lot of positives,
oh, but I do have like adviceabout this and so like I have a
neighbor recently that wentthrough a situation and you know
we're not that close, but hecame to me.
He's like, hey, I know you'vebeen through this.
Like what, do it, but it's thebest.
And I was like you have to, nomatter what, just be the bigger
person.
I don't know if he's the biggerperson or not in that situation
(16:11):
, I don't know what's going onwith them, but I was like
whatever it is, just always bethe bigger person.
Like don't are, there's nosense in arguing about it.
Like if you can just always tryto be the bigger person and
make the best of every singleconversation and situation, then
it's going to be pretty easyfor you.
And that counselor had told mewhich I didn't have this concern
(16:32):
.
Oh, I think I'd asked her likewhat if Colleen which I've never
thought she would but I waslike what if she gets into some
horrible relationship right witha guy?
And I remember the counselorsaying the positive influence,
if you have a positive influenceon one side, will outweigh the
negative influence.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Kids are I was going to say kids are really attracted
to health.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
Yeah, right, and that's what she said.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Yeah, so like they want to be around the healthy
parent, I think.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
Which, again for the record, I was not actually.
I trust Colleen 100%, so Ididn't think that would happen,
but I was just like goingthrough.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
You don't even have to say that.
Do you know how normal it isfor a man to be walking or like
separating from the person hewas married to?
And knowing like another manwill play a role in your
children's life and being afraid, or same thing.
for a mom like I think it wasalways like, oh my gosh,
especially with Clay's dad.
I would be like I need to makesure I I mean I was a psychopath
(17:29):
, but I was like, well, thatcan't be, they're not going to
get out crazy me, I'm justkidding, but kind of not All
right.
What about you?
How old were your kids?
Speaker 2 (17:39):
They were three and five and we don't go into the
whole history but William, theirdad, we met when I was 12.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
Like that's wild.
That's too young to get married, claire.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Yeah that's All right .
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Okay, alabama, I was about to say, wow, we dated tons
of other people.
But my point is we had a reallysolid friendship for many, many
years.
Let's see, I was 26 or 27 whenbirdie was born, so more than
half my life to that point hadhim in it.
So there's a pretty good basefor friendship, and so fast
(18:18):
forward to co-parenting.
I am not going to lie and saythat like we had it all set up
right or it was nevercontentious it definitely was,
and there was tears and I saidshitty things, I'm sure, um, but
from day one it was best forkids, best for the kids, best
for the kids.
So we never had like pettyarguments.
(18:39):
They were like jealousy wasnever a part of the equation.
Um, I'm a worrier, so like Iprobably like overstepped some
lines being I heard it was goingto rain.
Are they prepared with lifejackets?
I know that's what I do.
I am the mom that calls.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
Okay, Shane.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Spann, we get it.
Look, I was out of town lastweekend when the tornadoes were
coming through.
I was in a basement, lockedthere with Shane.
I texted my ex-husband no lessthan 20 times because as a
separated family, I'm like like,do they have helmets?
Is the basement of it, don'tleave the house.
And like he knows me wellenough to be like, got it, but
(19:16):
that was like our priority.
So if we ever spun out, italways came back to like what do
they need?
What do they need?
So we'll say, be the biggerperson.
Mine is like, take the highroad.
And it was just so useless toget into like nitty-gritty
things that really didn't matter.
And a gift that William gave methat I didn't have is he was
(19:39):
like we have to stick to thisschedule for years and it really
bothered me at first.
I'm like he's so inflexible,but what a gift that was.
Because, thank God, because ifthey were tearful, like I don't
want to leave mom, I'm a mother,of course.
I'm like, well, just don't,it's fine, but he's a great dad.
So there was no situation wherethey didn't need to go there.
(20:02):
He kept me so consistent and Iwent from so irritated by that
to so grateful, because they gotin the rhythm.
Like they knew what to expectat dad's house, they knew what
to expect at mom's house, andthat consistency, and that
structure was beyond helpful.
So I think my biggest twotakeaways are consistency and
(20:22):
structure are actually a reallygood thing.
As much as I preach flexibility, consistency and structure and
in the same vein as well, likelet that shit go, it is not your
children's problem.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
So was there no flexibility in the schedule.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
I'm going to be honest for like several years,
zero.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
Like there couldn't be or there just didn't need to
be.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
I think could.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
He was like not going to do it the downside for me.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
Well, I mean that's fine because at least you can
build your schedule around it.
So if you want to plan avacation or something like that,
you build it around that.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
I built my life around every other weekend
basically, and Wednesday nights.
That was my life as they gotolder and it was like I mean,
like right now we have two kidsand two different activities at
the same time on the same days,but we've built enough like
trust and stability to be likeyou got this one, can you do
(21:21):
pick up, or I've got it, I'mgood.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
but I really have to say that came from years of
rebuilding our trust in aco-parenting dynamic, not the
marriage dynamic that isdifferent, and I will say too,
like I think, um and this is memore having a front row like I
was very young and um, like Iwas 20 when I had Clay and
almost 21 and his dad was only acouple years older than me, and
(21:46):
like you know, he, you're 21.
I was 20 when I gave birth 20and literally turned 21 like a
month, two months later, becauseChloe was born May 30th and I
turned 21 July 17th.
Yeah, um, obviously preparedduh.
Having never seen anyone motherme, I was ready to be a mom.
(22:08):
But I want to say this I've hada front row seat of some really
profound co-parenting over theyears.
Just because, unfortunately, inour society still, divorce rate
is 50% you know, it floatsaround 50% in most communities
and so you're going to have afriend.
Even if you haven't experienceddivorce, you probably have a
(22:30):
friend who is and who'snavigating co-parenting.
The people I see do it wellunderstand that co-parenting has
nothing to do with your failedmarriage.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Amen.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
Nothing.
And if you cannot separate thetwo, you will end up with
children who really don't likeyou or might even hate you
eventually.
Because, back to what Will said, that your therapist said to
you children are attracted tohealth, it is true, so they're
going to be drawn to the healthyparent and the best gift you
(23:03):
can give your kids.
Hello, neighbor dog.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
That's Hank.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Hello Hank, we love you, he's the best um, but like,
the best thing you can do andthis is what I always tell my
friends is like you do have tolet that shit go and also you
can't control.
If you have a co-parentingsituation where your co-parent
partner is suck and win andthey're not showing up and
they're not consistent, you haveto take a step back and decide
(23:27):
what is the right thing for yourchild.
Not why are you pissed off atthem, not fighting with them,
not arguing with them, but howdo you take care of your kid?
Because you are raising a grownman or a grown woman.
Eventually they have to get tothat place and you have to
decide what do they need?
Speaker 2 (23:44):
And we'll get into more of the don'ts, but I will
also say, for women,no-transcript.
(24:09):
But my community was so, so, sostrong.
I'm sure I've talked about this.
Laura bought me a dining roomtable, and your friends don't
have to buy you dining sets,call me.
I had to have a table, okay.
And then my neighbor, amanda,who I've talked about.
She would come over.
My kids are super little likeshe'd put them in the bathtub
while I got dinner ready, and somy co-parent went beyond my
(24:33):
former spouse.
It went into this village thatI created because I had to wave
a white flag some days and belike I can't.
Can you pick up this kid whileI do this?
And those are your tier onepeople, if you're vulnerable
enough to ask for it.
I didn't have a grandma to call.
I didn't have a grandpa or anuncle or whoever.
It was me, yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
Yeah, and I will say super lucky the grandparents.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
I knew you weren't taking care of that newborn all
by yourself.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
I know you had.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, for I was good at that.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
I was good at that I bet you were really good at that
.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
But at the same time, my parents live like in this
neighborhood.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Yeah, so my mom's over here all the time.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
But then, like, from that point, I think one thing
that makes my relationship withColleen so easy is we don't have
to really worry about, like,the transporting back and forth,
because it's Bobbo.
Bob Lockham, he's a full-timejob, job like he right now is
there waiting for Liam to getdone with pole vaulting practice
(25:31):
, to take him to his haircut,and then I'll go pick up Lila a
minute from her track practice.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Let's talk a little bit about that, because I do
want to say like it is differentwhen you have that support
system in your backyard or rightdown the street and if you're a
mom or you're, or even a dadand I think sometimes it's even
scarier for dads because you'rekind of like, wait what?
but if you don't have thosepeople, I think it goes back to
(25:54):
if you have not listened to ourtier one, tier two, tier three,
friends um developing those andfinding community to get
involved in and being vulnerableenough to ask for help yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
so nick, who lives across street, like I've checked
his daughter out from schoolmultiple times and taken her to
the airport and stuff while he'straveling.
So, yeah, you need to have, ortry to find, those friends you
can depend on them.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
This is for the moms.
Here's a don't your ex-husband.
There's a great shot thatthey're not preparing the same
meals that you previouslyprepared.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
You're kidding what I'm not saying.
It's you, it's not.
They're not organic.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
So, and if you have daughters, that dad is likely
not dressing them the same waywhen they're little, that you
might dress them in theirsmocked outfits, or your little
boy in his monogrammed bubble,let it go.
Let it go Because I can promiseyou there is not one adult
child that's come to me intherapy and been like my dad
bought me the wrong leggingswhen I was four like it doesn't
happen here.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
I mean I, I maybe sent lila to school one time in
a really cute dress.
That was a pool cover-up maybemaybe it happened maybe it
happened.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
It was cute and here's a do to off balance that
the do is talk good about their,their parent.
For god's sake, talk good talkgood about their mom, talk good
about their dad, and here's whyyou win nothing by being
passive-aggressive.
And honestly like this is aperson who made these little
(27:28):
people with you.
Their dna runs in their blood,and speaking the good things
about that person behind theirback will allow them to to
cultivate a healthy perceptionof a parent.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
That is also by the way I know this is shocking
imperfect, as it turns out yeah,and if that other parent or you
or whatever has these flawsthat maybe need to be shown to
the child, the child will seethem they will figure you don't
have to tell the child about it.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
They will see them okay, my best friend is a single
mom of 9 000 so many children Icannot, and one of the things
that has infuriated, infuriatedme and inspired me over the last
since 2017, 18, of watching herdo this with such grace, is
that she has never taken a lowblow, never.
(28:18):
She has never gone below thebelt.
She only only talks good abouttheir dad, and when she doesn't
have something nice to say, sheis just not talking.
That does not mean you don'tever get to vent.
You just have to vent to yourpeople, not to your children.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Never vent about their parent to your kids and
when, and if that child is likemommy said this or did this, or
daddy did this and I didn't likelike whatever it is, if they
have something and they'relittle and they're talking about
their other parent you canvalidate the kid's feelings.
That must be really hard.
You know what I need to talk tothem about, that Like we need
to have a grown-up conversationbecause I know it's important.
(28:56):
So then you've just neutralizedit.
It's not that you're ignoringthat kid's feelings, it's that
Like I don't think you have tobe like blank.
If they're upset with the otherparent, it happens.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Do try to find ways to make it normal for your kids
to be around.
Both of you, I think that I'veseen.
You know I would say that mybonus son Ethan we have it took
a really long time but finallygot to a place where we could be
in the same room with his momand Shane and me, and I think
(29:34):
it's really kind and healthy foryour kids to see that they
matter more than whatever craphas happened.
It wasn't their fault that therewas a divorce, right.
And I think that as long asthey never feel like that and
the way that they don't feelthat way, is when you and your
ex can be big enough people tobe in the same room supporting
(29:56):
them.
And that means maybe you don'thave to sit right next to each
other, but sitting in the samearea at a band concert or
showing up to a birthday partyand not making it weird, so they
don't have to have multiplebirthday parties.
And I'm not saying that's rightfor every family, because it's
certainly not, but in themoments you can collaborate, I
think, as long as it is not sotension-oriented that it makes
(30:21):
it super weird for the kid.
And look, in some cases itmight be, but if it isn't and
you can do that, man, do that Ithink we have to.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
We should say we're talking about adults that aren't
actively on drugs, drinking orabusive like I think, I was
about to say good point.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
I was about to say the exact same thing of like you
know, we have ignored thatthere are some really terrible
situations where you shouldisolate at some point.
And yeah, because food abuseand stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Obviously, boundaries are really important and I
would say like, if you're not intherapy and you're navigating
something, if your ex or thefather or mother of your
children is struggling with drugabuse or alcohol abuse or
physical or mental abuse any ofthose things, emotional abuse,
whatever it's called Findsomebody to talk to who's a
professional, who can help youwalk through what those
(31:11):
boundaries need to look like.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
When and if you're with a healthy individual that
you don't want to be married toanymore and you want an
uncontentious divorce.
Let's say you're in thebeginning, william and I I will
will never forget we met at arestaurant to talk about, like,
our ideals for custody and thatwas what my attorney said.
She was like you, like wedidn't go through mediation, we
had, we had no back and forth.
(31:34):
It was probably world's easiestdivorce for the kids, by the
way, because I could have been areal jerk and been like I'm
keeping the house and everything, but like that did not benefit
my children.
Material possessions don'tnecessarily benefit your
children.
So we met I will never forget,and I had a little legal pad,
like with my ideas and weliterally just had to talk about
(31:56):
it wasn't that we had to agreein that moment, but when you're,
when you're in a neutrallocation, like not the house
you've been living in or thehouse someone else moved into,
it is a neutral space andhopefully, as I say, no one's
going to yell or cry I don'tmind crying in public, so, but
for the most part you get tojust be neutral, like that's
what this is all about.
How do I neutrally suggest whatI think is best for these
(32:19):
people.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
And I think another do is like be curious and not
accusatory.
I think sometimes, like you'revery protective of your children
, everybody is and so, let's say, a new person rolls on the
scene and your kid comes homeand they tell you an outlandish
story that you're like I'm goingto go blow up his truck right
now because that doesn't workfor me.
(32:41):
Remember that your kids arekids.
Their brains are not fullydeveloped.
Their perception of a scenarioor a story is is very based on
their lens that they see theworld in and what they think is
fair and right and equitable.
And so I would tell you toapproach your, your co parent
with curiosity and notaccusations.
(33:03):
It will make for a healthiercommunication strategy all along
.
But if you go to somebody andsay, hey, I just have some
questions, because Clay camehome and he was saying that you
know, your girlfriend jumped onthe hood of your car when you
were trying to leave in themiddle of the night, and I'm
just wondering if that was true,or maybe like a fever dream and
(33:24):
of course he said that was truewe got in a fight and I was
like, okay, well, that's notreally going to work for me ever
, so I'll murder you.
So you know, if you have anyhood jumping going on, you may
want to just approach that witha curiosity.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
A curious mind.
If you're married and you'relike what?
You can still use every bit ofthis in a parenting in the same
house.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
Truly, honestly it is hard, Because here's the thing
Because we're perfect parents.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
I guess that's kind of what I'm getting at.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
As your kids get older too, man, it gets even
harder, because you know they'vegot one of y'all that they've
pegged as the one that they canget away with murder with.
And then they have the otherone that's a little more
practical and like rulefollowing Like, but did you do
these 20 things on the checklistbefore you go do that?
So I feel like these tacticswork for that too.
And, by the way, we're talkingto y'all from a place of real
(34:23):
expertise, because I neveractually had an ex-husband whose
girlfriend jumped on his hoodin the middle of the night.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
I was wondering where that came from.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
I did.
Speaker 3 (34:32):
So notes for the show really quick.
This is another outside right.
So there's Hank barking,there's a child down here
hooting and hollering.
There's tons of wind, it'sbeautiful outside Bird chirping
Beautiful G.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
There's tons of wind.
It's beautiful outside Birdchirping, beautiful, gorgeous.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
I know the.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
Merlin app 74 degrees .
Speaker 3 (34:47):
Pulled it up this morning on the show.
I talked about it on the showthis morning, the radio show.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
Claire is in a sweater vest with nothing
underneath, because that's likethe vibe, just a sweater vest.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
You'll have to tune in to the Instagram.
She's only wearing a sweatervest and flats and nothing else.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
And one last note, if again you're not from the South
.
I didn't want to interrupt thestory, but Laura mentioned a
meet and three.
If you're unfamiliar.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
You need to go to Johnny's in Homewood.
You need to put that on yourlist.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
You need to go to Nicky's and Johnny's.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
Both of you may get yelled at Both of them.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
Oh no, tim's going to yell at you if you get a.
Johnny's, don't you dare stepout of that line, but Nikki's
100%.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
So, nikki's, you're going to get yelled at, but a
meat and three is where you pickyour protein, the meat and your
three is your veggies.
I'm classically meat and three,never meat and two, meat and
four.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
And when she says veggies, she means mac and
cheese, of course.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
Mashed potatoes, black eyed peas, greens,
whatever.
If you go to Nikki's, this istheir advertising with us.
I'm just kidding they wouldliterally.
They're like what's a podcastCultural?
Yes, you better not haverollers in your hair or be on
your cell phone or you will beasked to leave.
I mean, I've never worn rollers, but that's on their door.
But if you're on your phone.
They're like out with you.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
And if you step out of line and go get a table, they
will throw your food away Likethey will literally toss your
and they do not give a shit.
You have to be careful who youtake to Nikki's.
You do.
They need to be your rulefollowers.
You have to know what's up.
Google it.
Speaker 3 (36:12):
All right, I'm going to take my doctor friend that
was up here visiting and I needto explain that sounded so
pompous.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
We joke and we call him a doctor.
Speaker 3 (36:26):
That's why we call him a doctor, to make fun.
Yeah, sorry, it's a funny thing, so that was not a pompous
thing earlier.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
I like that you had to come back.
Speaker 3 (36:34):
The whole podcast.
I've been thinking like when amI going to bring up the?
I have to explain I have a.
I know we have lots of doctorfriends.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
Shout out to Dr.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
Carl, but I wouldn't say it.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
Shout out to Dr Carl.
We refer to him as our.
He loves it.
He texts me the other day he'slike I heard the podcast.
Thanks for the shout out.
Yeah, I got a guy for that.
He helps us look like this.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
I have mentioned other doctors in the show and I
haven't called them that.
We just call yeah, you saw whata jerk that Will can be today.
What a God you know he has adoctor friend.
One time we were at hisbachelor party and one of his
techs like his pharmacy techs.
We saw her down at the beach aswe were walking Like in the
wild.
In the wild exactly, and I waslike, oh you know, Dr Blah Blah
(37:20):
Blah and Dr Blah Blah Blah, andshe's like he's not a doctor.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
He went, I am a doctor, before you Cut Bangs is
hosted by Laura Quick and ClaireFeerman and produced by Will
Lockhamy.
Follow along with us everywhere.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
Please subscribe to the podcast.
Find us on Instagram.
We're constantly doing polls.
We want to know what you think,and I know that you probably
know this, but reviewing us andgiving us five stars matters
more than anything, and we areso grateful to have you here.
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