December 6, 2024 • 33 mins
The hardest thing in life is to be in a relationship with people that we hoped would change and then we wake up one day and realize maybe they won’t… or can’t.
On this episode, we are diving into how to navigate those relationships and come to terms with the reality of what IS TRUE.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to, before you Cut Bangs.
I'm Laura Quick and I'm ClaireFehrman.
I am a professional storytellerand I'm currently working on my
first book.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
I have worked in mental health for many years in
lots of capacities and this is areally important time to tell
you our big disclaimer this isnot therapy.
We are not your therapists orcoaches or anything like that.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Yeah, I mean you shouldn't really trust us very
much at all, unless you want toand it turns out well, then you
can trust us, that's great.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
All right, today, on, before you Cut Bangs, we are
talking about what to do whenthey simply won't change, can't
change Might not ever changeRefuse.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Yeah, could happen.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
You hear that They'll never change.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Mm-hmm, and sometimes they don't.
The old Oprah or Maya, whoeverit was.
When they show you who they are, believe them.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Believe them, and so we'll tell you what to do if
they won't change.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
And I think they might.
Anyway, we'll get to thatOpening question here.
What is something that you'reconvinced that people are just
pretending to like?
Like I went with very expensivewine Because I feel like and
I've worked at a place back inthe day that was a really nice
(01:24):
place where you had to do likewine training and tastings and
all those and I mean I was moreconvinced than ever, after
learning about all the stuff andtasting it all, that the $30
bottle if it's the blend likeyou like tastes just like the
$300 or $400 bottle.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Honestly sometimes better yeah to me.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Sometimes better and it's a status thing.
But buying the very expensivebottle as a status thing, you
don't actually enjoy it morethan the 30 bottle I resonate
with that.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
People that say that they like salads with no
dressing fuck all the way off.
You're lying kale.
Kale is when you yeah, don't,I'm not doing that, I'm not
pretending.
Oh my god, no stop.
Oh, also, people that pretendthey don't like mayonnaise.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
That's a lot too, and then eat your mayonnaise of
choice dukes.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Okay, good, never hi, mayonnaise is like my favorite
thing.
I don't eat it.
I thought it was.
It was something when I made achange when I turned 30 and was
like, oh, I need to lose someweight.
You don't eat mayonnaisemayonnaise.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Well, we'll have to do a whole Intervention episode
on how that's delicious.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
And look, if I go to a restaurant and they bring me
mayonnaise, I'm going to dip myfries in it.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
God, I love fries and mayonnaise, so it's not like I
can never have mayonnaise.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
It's not like that.
It's like if I make a sandwich,I used to lather it in
mayonnaise.
Now I just skip the mayonnaise.
Oh, that's serious.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
We'll work on that.
As far from my health andwellness mindset.
Okay, I thought of a couple,and please let the record show
that I love 99.9% of foods.
But these people that havejoined the tinned fish club,
what does that mean?
Like fish in a can, likesardines?
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Oh, I have tried that .
It's not great.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
I love anchovies, so some people love them.
It's a good snack.
I like it, like on saltines,yeah, or just by themselves.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Like hot sauce.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
On a cracker, maybe hot sauce.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
My brother did love them, but I don't know.
I couldn't be passionate enoughto join a club.
Oh, you meant like the clubstoo far.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
There's an actual club.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
The tinned.
Well, forgive me if this isn'texactly but the tinned fish club
.
Tinned fish club, it's like awine of the month, jelly of the
month.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
Here's your rotten disgusting fish, and like
sardines, I know they're goodfor you, so I will sometimes,
but I have to put salt and hotsauce on them, which probably
then kind of negates.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
See, y'all are all dousing it with mustard hot
sauce.
Just be like plug my nose andtoss her back.
I'm not in any club.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
Here's the thing.
But I do love anchovies Like Ilove them, so I do like them.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
I'm not going to be in a club, though I also don't
believe the cold plungers.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Yeah, the benefits are real.
But yeah, yeah, the benefitsare real, but yeah, it's got to
be miserable, yeah, or peoplethat are like I just love
running.
I mean, I agree, I know peoplethat claim to Listen.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
I'll run, but it is only because I believe it is the
least.
It's the thing I can do thebest out of all the things that
I really suck at.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
Yeah, there can be good benefits and it's
convenient.
You can just do it.
You can leave your door and doit.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Yeah, put on the shoes and let's go, so what are
we going to do with these people?
That won't change.
Have them start running,probably.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Immediately, you need to get on a running regimen.
Okay, well, tell us what itlooks like in relationship if
there's a stuck person, or whatit could look like.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
So I think I've been the stuck person.
I've been the person that waskind of like living on repeat
and like probably was prettydifficult to watch from an
outside perspective.
But I think I've also met a lotof people on my journey that
just felt like they were stuckor they wouldn't change or they
weren't interested in changing.
I have a parent like that.
I have several parents, all myparents actually.
(05:02):
But I think I think you havetwo schools of thought here
People don't change, won'tchange, can't change and people
can change.
I have to believe I'm in peoplecan change camp because
obviously I have had radicalchange in my life.
But what does that even mean tochange?
Okay, I think what it meant forme was waking up enough to take
(05:26):
a look good a look, a good longlook in the mirror at who I was
, how I was showing up andsaying, wow, I don't really like
what I see and I want to bedifferent.
I think that's changed, changes, the admission of something's
not quite the way that I want itto be.
I'd like it to be different andI think it'll be different.
(05:48):
I want it to be different formyself, but I also believe the
fruit of that would that itwould be different for people to
interact with me as well.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
What do you believe the fruit of that would?
What does that mean to you?
Like, if people change?
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Yeah, I mean okay, this sweater off, I hate you.
What does that mean to you?
Like if people change?
Yeah, I mean okay.
So for me personally, like Idefinitely went through a 10
year probably episode of likenever really super content,
right what year what?
Speaker 1 (06:18):
how old were you when that was happening?
It's still, you're in it.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
40 just kidding.
I'm so surprised you're one ofthe most content people I know.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
I love so many parts of my life were very content.
I'm just very content with avery.
I mean I said I was neverunhappy, it was just like uh is
there more?
Speaker 2 (06:34):
yeah, kind of yeah, yes, yeah, oh, that's a good one
so, so, but here's the thing.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
I don't know why I changed, but I just became very
content and very yeah, justpleased all the way around, and
so, like it changed.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Content and happy is that's people who are thankful
are content and happy.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
So did you figure out how to just be thankful for
what you had?
Speaker 3 (06:58):
Maybe, so Maybe that was it.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Because you're also a super grateful person.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
Yeah, I just I don't know really what, because it
wasn't like a.
Okay, I'm talking to someone, adoctor, that's telling me I
need to make this change, so Ineed to figure out how to make
it.
It just, I just changed.
I think it just kind of maturedand grew up and whatever.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Have y'all by?
I cannot believe I'm about toask this question.
Have either of y'all listenedto Jewel on Joe Rogan that
episode?
I don't ever listen to JoeRogan, so don't come at me, but
do y'all.
Okay, I haven't.
Well, I'm going to give a quicksummary and I encourage
(07:37):
everyone to listen to this.
So Jewel was born into a wildworld in Alaska.
Basically, she was suicidal by15.
And then she saw other peoplethat were happy and she was like
I want that.
And she devoted her whole lifeto figuring out what that was.
Um, by like 18, she was offereda million dollars to sign with
somebody and she's like thisdoesn't feel right, I'm good,
(07:58):
I'd rather live out of my carbecause I know that million
dollars won't make me happy.
And she waited another howevermany years.
That first album Can't rememberwhat it's called, but we all
listened to it On repeat, Onrepeat, and she made $12 million
a month that year.
Anyways, her whole stance onthis is if you see it, you can
(08:20):
decide to do it.
Like you just have to go.
And I say go after it Like shedidn't decide.
Oh, I'm not going to killmyself anymore.
But she looked around and waslike I want what they have and
she did it and I think that's alittle bit of what we lack now
and I've talked about on herebefore, but this like grittiness
to us.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
Yeah, I think that was.
I think that when I got aroundhealthier people, that was the
big revelation for me of likewhoa I want what they have, I
want what they have.
I see them living a differentlife than me and they seem more
content.
They seem like they they have.
There was not an unsettlednessabout them and there was always
(08:58):
an unsettledness about myselfthat I was like I don't like
that.
But then, but it took mechanging environments completely
to even feel like I hadpermission to change.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
So y'all are talking about pretty self-aware change.
But then there's this flip tothat of you're in partnership
and partnership and parentstypically are like the hot
topics in therapy of my momshows up like this and it sucks.
My dad shows up like this and itsucks, so I'm and I'm miserable
and fuck them, or my husband,my wife, my girlfriend, my
boyfriend, whoever.
(09:28):
If they did these things, Iwould be happier, and I think
that's a super importantnarrative and I think that was
why you asked the question today, like before we started.
Can people change what happensif they don't?
This is the setup.
So I hear all the timeclinically, or even friends or
whoever this person, if theydidn't do these things, I would
(09:50):
feel so much better.
What do you think about that?
Speaker 1 (09:53):
I think that an unhealthy dynamic always makes
you think that it's probably theother person and that if they
would just do all these thingsand you would, you would feel
better.
But ultimately, like I don'tknow better, but ultimately like
I don't know, I don't, I don'tagree with that.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
I feel like making concessions right is a good
thing for you and your partnerto do to small extents, to like,
yeah, hear them out andwhatever.
But, boy, if you are in arelationship where you're really
wanting to change that otherperson, maybe not the
relationship for you for sure.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
So and we'll do both sides, because I see both where
it's like a person is being toldthey need to change to make the
other person happy, which sucks.
And then I've seen the otherside of if they would just
change and I used to be in thatcamp.
I needed my mom to be all ofthese other things to make me
happy, um, in our relationship,and that that didn't work out
(10:46):
for us until I did the therapywork and she said that I was
pleasant.
But that was like proof in thepudding of like I went and did
the therapy, it changed thedynamic and then we got along
better.
So that that's a tough one toswallow.
So let's go with the dynamic ofI need this person to change
it's for me to be happy, or I'mwaiting for this person to
(11:06):
change to's for me to be happy,or I'm waiting for this person
to change to be happy.
So I, as they know, I'm on thislike big yoga path right now
okay, and we're all reallyexcited, are you?
Speaker 1 (11:17):
I love it.
I think it's awesome.
I've loved watching you like beso happy pursuing it thank you.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Um, so this has required a lot, like daily
meditation, daily movement, likedaily yoga every single morning
, and it has revived a lot ofwhat I think was like dormant in
me.
It has, like, awakened me, likewhat you said, like you just
wake up and I'm looking at thesethings and I'm like, oh my gosh
(11:45):
, I can do this and I can bebetter.
And I'm married to someone that, like, is not going to get up
and I'm looking at these thingsand I'm like, oh my gosh, I can
do this and I can be better.
And I'm married to someone that, like, is not gonna get up and
do yoga.
And it scared me at first and Iwas like, oh my god, like we're
not on this yogic path togetherand he needs to see all of the
light that I am seeing.
And so every day I'm like, well, let me tell you about the
(12:08):
goddess Lakshmi, and like, howcool the blood like just fucking
constantly could not stoprunning my mouth.
And he's like that is awesomeanyways, like he, he's being
like really sweet.
And then it hit me first of all, bobby's never gonna join my
little path, but in biggerthings in life, when someone is
(12:29):
growing and someone else isstagnant.
They'll either watch you growand join you or they won't.
And can you live with it or not?
And can I live with Bobby notdoing yoga?
100% yes.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Well, cause you.
That's like a hole in a gapthat you can fill with all your
yogi friends that do love yogaand we'll talk to you about the
goddess and the light and thewhatever else you're seeing.
Like I think I mean truly, I dothink that that is a big
misnomer is like you know thatyou're going to evolve.
If you're you're not growing,you're dying, as they say as
(13:06):
they say, whoever they are.
But I mean, if you're growingand your partner, like everybody
, grows at a different speed,though, right, so like.
But what happens when itdoesn't seem like they're
growing at all?
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Yeah, so that's when I see a ton of blame.
And what does research say?
That blame is Shame, yes, andInsecurity, dis discharge of
pain.
When I blame you, I puke mypain on you so I have a moment
of relief.
So when I need you to changefor me to be happy, I have
(13:40):
undealt with pain that I'mputting on you as your
responsibility.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Biggest thing I see in couples Like a codependent,
an unhealthy level ofcodependency of like I need you
to be good so I can be good.
Yeah, I need you to.
You've got to do these, checkthese boxes for me so that I can
be okay, and you're not doingthat, and so therefore, this
sucks and you won't change.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Yeah, like I'm depressed, I have anxiety.
But if you did X, y and Z,those things would be relieved.
Or our marriage is so boringand lacking but, laura, if you
did these things, our marriagewouldn't be boring and lacking
anymore.
So I need you to go do that, soI'm happier.
Those are, um, we can go backto our red flags episode.
That's a flag.
That's not like an irreparableflag, but it is a flag of your
(14:26):
partner has some shit theyhaven't dealt with and they're
safe enough with you, which isthe positive part to say.
What they're really saying isI'm hurt, I'm hurt, help me,
help me.
But it's coming out as fuck,you Fuck, you, fuck.
You Do these things so I feelbetter.
And guess what, if you went anddid all the things, they, they
don't feel better.
They would just move thegoalpost because they're still
(14:47):
unresolved.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Ugh.
Okay, so you're saying theperson who's saying I need you
to change to make me happy isactually the one that's most
messed up.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
In this specific scenario.
But let's say, like you'remarried to someone who's
struggling with sex addiction,like, of course they need to go
work.
That go do their work.
That's not a reflection of youin that moment.
It's like, hey, I need you togo deal with this so we have a
safe marriage, right?
That is a moment when, like,they've got to go do stuff.
(15:18):
What all you listeners have todifferentiate with is if someone
is telling me to change fortheir happiness and I'm not
doing something that is directlyputting like a life at stake or
putting us in danger.
That is not on me.
Now.
If they're like you yell at meevery Tuesday, that has to stop.
That's something for me to takea look at.
(15:39):
Am I being clear enough aboutwhen it's yours, when it's
theirs?
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Yeah, and I think like cause that feels very
partner oriented.
And it's funny, cause I thinkthat I've had some accidental
marriages, if you will.
And I had this friend that Ishared with my sister and she
called me and she's like, oh mygosh, so-and-so is getting
married again, and this was likethe fifth or sixth time she was
going to be getting marriedWell beyond, beyond yours.
(16:05):
Well, oh, so many moreaccidentals than I had.
But and this is not I'm not atall and I understand how it
happens.
You know, typically you'relooking for somebody to make you
happy, right, but like Iremember saying so what is she
saying about this guy?
And she said, well, this guy'sgoing to make her happy.
And I was like, y'all know howwe feel about that and he's just
(16:27):
this, he's just that, he's justthis.
And I'm like, but is shedifferent?
Has she changed?
Because typically, if you'veexperienced your own
transformation, you have a lotmore grace when other people are
trying to navigate theirs.
And I think that is like a,from a partnership perspective,
is the thing we forget, likemaybe you forgot when you were
in a hard season or you werenavigating change, and so then
(16:50):
you don't have as much grace forthe other person.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Yeah, I think you nailed it with.
That's the difference in blameversus like growth mindset and
grace of fuck you for being thisway, or hey, this is hard for
me.
What do you think about it?
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Like, like, hey, man, it feels like we're still
hanging out in the same areathat we've been in for like a
year and a half.
Like, are you open to taking astep with me?
What would that look like?
Speaker 2 (17:14):
yes, okay, I feel like that was clear, wilbur
clear yeah, crystal yeah, allright, let's talk about parents
la.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
So this is the hardest for me because I have a
mom who has not been presentmost of my life and then I have
a dad who has been present.
But also, I had this dream onetime that like messed me up.
I remember telling Claire aboutit, but I first called Shelly
and I was like, oh my God, Ijust had this crazy dream.
(17:45):
The dream was I had this houseand I was letting my dad move
into the house, but I had movedall of the furniture the like
really nice fancy furniture andart and everything in the
basement and I was like, hey,just don't mess with that, I'm
going to come back.
And then, when we can like moveit or sell it or whatever, I
come back a month later and hehas sold everything.
(18:07):
And he said but don't worryabout it.
And he gave me $300.
This was probably hundreds ofthousands of dollars worth of
shit in the bottom of my pocket.
And this is a dream.
It's a dream, but in the dreamthis was this huge chasm, him
saying no worries, here's $300.
And I remember afterwards beingso mad like this is the kind of
(18:29):
shit I'm talking about, that hewould think that that's
inappropriate, like that's soinappropriate.
And my best friend said isn'tthat kind of what you do all the
time?
You keep going to the ATM ofyour dad trying to pull out
$1,000 and really only has $100to offer you and I was like I've
(18:50):
got to call you back bitch.
But then I was like, yes, thatis what I do all the time.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
Well, shelly's a poet and didn't know it.
Yes, but it reminds me of theactual real life story with you
and your dad, where he won thelottery and gave you like $10.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
$100.
Whatever.
Yeah, he was like here we'regoing to split this A half a
millionaire.
And he was like I'm sending yousomething real nice.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
And it was $100.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Like directly oh, it's a direct but that was
before this dream was beforethat actually happened, and I
remember being like, yes,foreshadowing of what was to
come.
But I think, like when I lookat my parents, I have one that
was present but also disengaged,so that's my dad.
And then I have my mom, whostruggled with addiction and,
(19:36):
you know, had a lot of reallymessed up stuff happen and the
more I learned about both ofthem.
There was a season of my life,probably my 20, where I was like
they don't care about me, theywon't support me, they suck and
they won't change.
They're always gonna be thisway and this is just my reality
and that was one way to look atit.
(19:59):
I don't hate that way and youknow what?
It's a totally fine way and youcan find a lot of peace there
because you can just be likethey're not going to change.
This is it I think that I'veprobably shifted into, because I
still think that I thinkthere's a really slim chance I'm
ever going to get a differentrelationship with either one of
my parents.
I mean, truly one of them isintolerably so and the other one
(20:24):
is just like how much can youreally handle?
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Okay so, but where I've landed with it is like, the
more I know about their story,the more I'm like that tracks.
So that metaphor of likekeeping, like going to the ATM
and not getting anything out ofit, that's what we're set up to
do with parents that don't have,uh, I guess, the groundedness,
the security to say, hey, I hearyou and you're right.
(20:55):
Um, that's what we deal with Ifwe have narcissistic parents.
Um, typically narcissisticmothers are going to have some
kind of like, uh, unspokenjealousy with you if you're her
daughter.
That happens a lot.
Narcissistic fathers verycharming, very attention seeking
.
I'm giving like the literalthumbnail version, but those are
probably my more extreme casesof we're biologically set up to
(21:20):
look to these people forsecurity.
It's how nature works.
These people are going to loveyou and take care of you and
then humans suck compared to,like a mother deer who's taking
care of her child and so theanimal kingdom really does this
better in some cases, but thenthey also like eat their
children sure of them, so teachtheir own teach, teach.
(21:43):
But the more dramatic cases ofthis are if I have an alcoholic
parent that's actively drinking,if I have a narcissistic parent
, if I have an unmedicatedbipolar parent like these.
These are people that, like Iwould go with the 20 something
laura of.
Like they can't give me what Ineed, I'm gonna go find it
elsewhere well and I'll say likethat was my solution was to put
(22:05):
up.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
I wouldn't have called them boundaries, because
I had no idea what a boundarywas in my 20s, but I just went
kind of no contact for most ofmy 20s.
And when I did allow them tocome in, I was so disappointed
To be like never invited to aholiday until 10 minutes before
(22:26):
or like and I know there'sprobably a lot of people
listening that that's your storyLike you're, you might be like
you're the last person on thelist for your family and you
don't find out and maybe likepart of your family is super
duper close and they're theycould do things together.
And then all of a suddenthey're like oh damn, we forgot
to call laura.
Let's just tell her.
We're down here at the pfchangs, we've come to alabama if
you want to join us, and I'mlike I actually remember you
(22:49):
going literally a actual thing.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
I feel like your family might be intimidated by
you.
I don't know your family, butlike you're, you know you got
will scared of you.
That's what he's trying to say.
Oh, you know, I'm not, you gotstuff going on.
You of you is what he's tryingto say.
Oh, you know, I'm not, you gotstuff going on.
You're doing stuff, you'resuccessful.
I don't know, maybe they'relike Maybe they've heard the
podcast.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Yeah, probably Maybe they've heard the podcast.
No PF Changs for her.
But I will say this and I wantto family as an example, because
I do think it represents a lotof the world feels similar to
how I feel, like on the outfront, on the outside fringe,
maybe you have a drug addictparent and and that's really
(23:32):
hard maybe you have a parentthat's not diagnosed but has
some mental illness they'rewalking around with or
borderline personality, whatever, it doesn't really matter.
At the end of of the day,that's super lonely, it sucks so
bad.
And so I also just want to sayI am grateful my mom gave birth
to me.
I wouldn't be here without her,being a brave 17 year old who
(23:55):
decided to choose life when shehad every reason not to.
And the same thing, my dadworked two and three jobs when I
was growing up to provide forus, and you know like it wasn't,
like their life wasn't easyeither.
I'm at this place where I tryand see like I'm not saying it's
okay what they do, but I amsaying I've got to a place, at
(24:15):
41, where I can give a lot ofgrace, and so I do talk a lot of
shit about them.
Maybe they just don't they.
It might be a little like wedon't get her, and I think that
I think that's true.
I think there's a lot of like.
I always ask my sister like buthave they read any books?
And if the answer is no, thenthey have not changed.
(24:35):
Nothing has changed, um, andthat is my sentiment.
However, now I say I know theyhaven't changed, I acknowledge
they haven't changed and I amwilling to still go into the
lion's den.
I think I could do it for twohours.
I think I can make it through adinner.
I love.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
I have two things I love that.
Um, you came to this middleroad of I can tolerate two hours
Cause you know I have a hardtime with that harsh pendulum
swing of like my mom made me mad, so I'm not seeing them for
holidays or whatever it is thatwe have made popular on
Instagram.
(25:10):
Yes, like you've been through alot with these people and you
now have this understanding ofof course, y'all know I love the
of course, like of course, theyhad to do it this way.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
That's what great therapists do.
They look at you and they go,of course.
Of course that happened andnobody my parents haven't been
through therapy y'all.
I have the gift of like I'vetransformed my life.
Yes, maybe because I partiallylooked in the mirror and was
like whoa, don't really likethis.
I'm looking at myself andlooking at these healthy people
and realizing there's this bigdivide.
So I made a change.
(25:44):
They I don't know that they'vehad that luxury.
I don't think they've beenexposed to the same things I've
been exposed to, and maybe theyhaven't had that awakening,
maybe they never will.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
But they're all I got .
I would really encourage you ifyour parent won't change in the
sense of we do gentle parenting, but my parents don't like
lighten up, you know.
And what I mean by gentleparenting and they don't is you
know?
There's this whole thing, doy'all know?
There's this thing where youshouldn't tell your kids you're
(26:13):
proud of them.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
I've seen that.
I've seen the Instagram Hate.
I posted it on Instagram.
It's so bad, it's like allthese things you can't do, like
you can't do, like you can't sayyou're proud of them you need
to be proud, like we're proud orsomething it's like.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
You have to be like specific, but also make it like
neutral, because if you're proud, then you could also be
inclined to be disappointed.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Basically, it's a terrifying world we live in with
all these weird, but this isthis is real.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Like people like, well, you know, we're gentle
parenting and we don't saythings like I'm proud and I have
boomer parents and like y'all,they don't know, but I bet
they're not like whooping yourkids I mean, that did happen to
us growing up.
But like times have changed andso I would really encourage
people to take a look at ishealth and safety really at
(27:02):
stake here, or do I not justlike this part of them and can I
learn how to tolerate it?
Speaker 1 (27:10):
That's where you get to shift into flexibility and
compassion.
I think I actually have acouple friends who has a little
girl, like she's very, verylittle, and there's one parent
that just goes rogue like onegrandparent.
That's just like doing whateverthe hell they want, and I think
it's kind of she's definitelyin the camp of.
This is the way I am Get overit, like mom, the grandmother,
and I'm always erring on theside of like, yeah, that sounds
(27:33):
insane and that would be reallyheavy.
Also, you've got to pick andchoose your battle, because if
everything is a battle with yourboomer parent, you're just
going to live in turmoil all thetime.
So like, yes, you're doinggentle parenting and if you're
like most parents, that means90% of the time it's happening
(27:54):
the way you want it to happenand 10% is not going to change
the trajectory of your child'slife.
Like if they say they're proudof them because 90% of the time
they hear you doing it.
However, gentle parents aresupposed to do it, which, let me
tell you, I am not the gentleparent to talk to and no one has
ever come into my office andsaid that their deepest wound
(28:18):
was that their parents told themthat they were proud of them.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
No, pretty sure it's the opposite of that I do want
to go back to.
If you're in the situation withyour partner where you're
banking on them to change foryour happiness, I would pop into
therapy, to be honest, yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
And oh, this is a good one.
Damn, because Claire and I knowso many people who are either
talking to us about therapy orlike they're curious, therapy.
Curious.
If you show up and you'retalking about your spouse, your
partner, your loved one, yourgirlfriend, your boyfriend,
about them going to therapy, butyou're not doing your own work,
(29:00):
shut the literal hell up, stopDo not kind of mean today.
I know we do or you do, I doeveryone All right.
I'm sorry if we sound mean.
I'm just saying that if youhave the capacity to think about
what your spouse or partnerneeds and you think it's therapy
, they should be in therapy.
(29:20):
But you're not in therapy, goget in therapy, because the
tools that you'll have tonavigate that relationship in a
different way because I thinksometimes it's like, well, they
just need to be in therapy.
It's like are you in therapy,so making appointments?
What you're saying.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
It is.
This is kind of what I want tosay, but when we talk about
change, it's reallyuncomfortable and we'll start it
with a really subtle piece of.
I was not content, so I found away to become content.
So none of what we're talkingabout is one 80 change to me.
This is how am I more pleasant,how do I show up in my morals
(30:01):
and my values, how I want to bea wife, a mother those are my
biggest roles a therapist, afriend.
And what's stopping me fromgetting to those places?
Okay, and then those are theconversations you can have with
really safe partners of hey,this is where I'm stuck.
What do you think about that?
Like, have you ever asked yourpartner?
I feel stuck.
Would you agree, being braveenough to ask someone you love,
(30:24):
what do you really think aboutsome of my behaviors?
And sitting with it, what doyou think of my strengths?
What do you think of myweaknesses?
And just saying thank you tothat?
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Oh, that's some that does take therapy.
When Shane and I have a Sundaymeeting and one of the things we
ask is like what can I dobetter?
Like is there anything I can dobetter this week?
And sometimes Shane will justhit me with a real zinger and
I'll hate it.
And sometimes I hit him with azinger and he probably hates it.
But like, I do think that islike a level of honesty that if
(30:52):
you can have it, if you can bebrave enough to talk about where
you're stuck, you might giveyour partner permission to talk
about where they are and I willtell you if your partner's stuck
and in a lot of pain and pukingit up all over, you just keep
doing your work Like if you'rein a secure marriage and it's
falling apart a little bit.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
Like you keep doing your work.
Just like Bobby won't do yoga,like I keep doing it and he'll
either join the path or he won't, you keep moving forward.
Your partner gets to join youor they can't, that's it.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
Yeah, I'll simplify this a little bit.
But like my marriage the firstmarriage it just got to a point
like we went to counseling andshe was wanting me to change in
a way that would have made meunhappy, and so just kind of
came to that agreement of, likeothers, I can't do that, because
then I would be unhappy andthat, even though that those
changes might make you happy,wouldn't make me happy.
(31:42):
So let's just be co-parents,and that's how that happened.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
God, I love vulnerable will.
That was so great, yeah, and Ican.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
I wasn't going to have a cubicle job and that was
that was one of them that feelslike a pretty big non-negotiable
for you.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Yeah, okay, well, take out the part where I was
mean, cause I.
Okay.
Well, take out the part where Iwas mean, because I feel like
you said what I said, but better, I was just being funny.
You're good, are you sure?
I feel bad.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
He'll listen and take it out of me.
All right, Claire's got twomore things.
I know, I'm just kidding, Icould always come up with more,
but Claire's got a list of fivemore things I mean every a news
segment at the end, where it'sjust you sending me voice memos
of things you wish.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
you would have said have y'all seen the Martha?
Speaker 3 (32:26):
Stewart, I've seen just the two of them.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
Wait, have y'all seen the Martha Stewart documentary?
Okay, she is saying things menhave been saying forever, but
she's saying them sostraight-faced.
She was like, if your husband'scheating on you, divorce him
immediately.
And then the guy goes weren'tyou cheating on him?
(32:50):
And she was like, yes, but thatwas different.
I was like but she sends avoice memo in there and she's
like these panties on the Eastside are dead and that makes me
very unhappy and I was like yes,let's go, claire.
Hey, thank you guys forlistening.
We love having you here.
We're so happy to be back forseason two.
Please give us a review, shareus with your friends and if you
(33:13):
ever want to reach out and youhave a topic you want us to
cover or something that you'rejust wondering about, let us
know.
Speaker 3 (33:20):
Before you Cut Things is hosted by Claire Fehrman and
Laura Quick and produced by me,Will Ockamy.
Welcome to, before you Cut Bangs.
I'm Laura Quick and I'm ClaireFehrman.
I am a professional storytellerand I'm currently working on my
first book.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
I have worked in mental health for many years in
lots of capacities and this is areally important time to tell
you our big disclaimer this isnot therapy.
We are not your therapists orcoaches or anything like that.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Yeah, I mean you shouldn't really trust us very
much at all, unless you want toand it turns out well, then you
can trust us, that's great.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
All right, today, on, before you Cut Bangs, we are
talking about what to do whenthey simply won't change, can't
change Might not ever changeRefuse.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Yeah, could happen.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
You hear that They'll never change.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Mm-hmm, and sometimes they don't.
The old Oprah or Maya, whoeverit was.
When they show you who they are, believe them.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Believe them, and so we'll tell you what to do if
they won't change.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
And I think they might.
Anyway, we'll get to thatOpening question here.
What is something that you'reconvinced that people are just
pretending to like?
Like I went with very expensivewine Because I feel like and
I've worked at a place back inthe day that was a really nice
(01:24):
place where you had to do likewine training and tastings and
all those and I mean I was moreconvinced than ever, after
learning about all the stuff andtasting it all, that the $30
bottle if it's the blend likeyou like tastes just like the
$300 or $400 bottle.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Honestly sometimes better yeah to me.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Sometimes better and it's a status thing.
But buying the very expensivebottle as a status thing, you
don't actually enjoy it morethan the 30 bottle I resonate
with that.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
People that say that they like salads with no
dressing fuck all the way off.
You're lying kale.
Kale is when you yeah, don't,I'm not doing that, I'm not
pretending.
Oh my god, no stop.
Oh, also, people that pretendthey don't like mayonnaise.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
That's a lot too, and then eat your mayonnaise of
choice dukes.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Okay, good, never hi, mayonnaise is like my favorite
thing.
I don't eat it.
I thought it was.
It was something when I made achange when I turned 30 and was
like, oh, I need to lose someweight.
You don't eat mayonnaisemayonnaise.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Well, we'll have to do a whole Intervention episode
on how that's delicious.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
And look, if I go to a restaurant and they bring me
mayonnaise, I'm going to dip myfries in it.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
God, I love fries and mayonnaise, so it's not like I
can never have mayonnaise.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
It's not like that.
It's like if I make a sandwich,I used to lather it in
mayonnaise.
Now I just skip the mayonnaise.
Oh, that's serious.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
We'll work on that.
As far from my health andwellness mindset.
Okay, I thought of a couple,and please let the record show
that I love 99.9% of foods.
But these people that havejoined the tinned fish club,
what does that mean?
Like fish in a can, likesardines?
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Oh, I have tried that .
It's not great.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
I love anchovies, so some people love them.
It's a good snack.
I like it, like on saltines,yeah, or just by themselves.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Like hot sauce.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
On a cracker, maybe hot sauce.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
My brother did love them, but I don't know.
I couldn't be passionate enoughto join a club.
Oh, you meant like the clubstoo far.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
There's an actual club.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
The tinned.
Well, forgive me if this isn'texactly but the tinned fish club
.
Tinned fish club, it's like awine of the month, jelly of the
month.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
Here's your rotten disgusting fish, and like
sardines, I know they're goodfor you, so I will sometimes,
but I have to put salt and hotsauce on them, which probably
then kind of negates.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
See, y'all are all dousing it with mustard hot
sauce.
Just be like plug my nose andtoss her back.
I'm not in any club.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
Here's the thing.
But I do love anchovies Like Ilove them, so I do like them.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
I'm not going to be in a club, though I also don't
believe the cold plungers.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Yeah, the benefits are real.
But yeah, yeah, the benefitsare real, but yeah, it's got to
be miserable, yeah, or peoplethat are like I just love
running.
I mean, I agree, I know peoplethat claim to Listen.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
I'll run, but it is only because I believe it is the
least.
It's the thing I can do thebest out of all the things that
I really suck at.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
Yeah, there can be good benefits and it's
convenient.
You can just do it.
You can leave your door and doit.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Yeah, put on the shoes and let's go, so what are
we going to do with these people?
That won't change.
Have them start running,probably.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Immediately, you need to get on a running regimen.
Okay, well, tell us what itlooks like in relationship if
there's a stuck person, or whatit could look like.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
So I think I've been the stuck person.
I've been the person that waskind of like living on repeat
and like probably was prettydifficult to watch from an
outside perspective.
But I think I've also met a lotof people on my journey that
just felt like they were stuckor they wouldn't change or they
weren't interested in changing.
I have a parent like that.
I have several parents, all myparents actually.
(05:02):
But I think I think you havetwo schools of thought here
People don't change, won'tchange, can't change and people
can change.
I have to believe I'm in peoplecan change camp because
obviously I have had radicalchange in my life.
But what does that even mean tochange?
Okay, I think what it meant forme was waking up enough to take
(05:26):
a look good a look, a good longlook in the mirror at who I was
, how I was showing up andsaying, wow, I don't really like
what I see and I want to bedifferent.
I think that's changed, changes, the admission of something's
not quite the way that I want itto be.
I'd like it to be different andI think it'll be different.
(05:48):
I want it to be different formyself, but I also believe the
fruit of that would that itwould be different for people to
interact with me as well.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
What do you believe the fruit of that would?
What does that mean to you?
Like, if people change?
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Yeah, I mean okay, this sweater off, I hate you.
What does that mean to you?
Like if people change?
Yeah, I mean okay.
So for me personally, like Idefinitely went through a 10
year probably episode of likenever really super content,
right what year what?
Speaker 1 (06:18):
how old were you when that was happening?
It's still, you're in it.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
40 just kidding.
I'm so surprised you're one ofthe most content people I know.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
I love so many parts of my life were very content.
I'm just very content with avery.
I mean I said I was neverunhappy, it was just like uh is
there more?
Speaker 2 (06:34):
yeah, kind of yeah, yes, yeah, oh, that's a good one
so, so, but here's the thing.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
I don't know why I changed, but I just became very
content and very yeah, justpleased all the way around, and
so, like it changed.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Content and happy is that's people who are thankful
are content and happy.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
So did you figure out how to just be thankful for
what you had?
Speaker 3 (06:58):
Maybe, so Maybe that was it.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Because you're also a super grateful person.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
Yeah, I just I don't know really what, because it
wasn't like a.
Okay, I'm talking to someone, adoctor, that's telling me I
need to make this change, so Ineed to figure out how to make
it.
It just, I just changed.
I think it just kind of maturedand grew up and whatever.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Have y'all by?
I cannot believe I'm about toask this question.
Have either of y'all listenedto Jewel on Joe Rogan that
episode?
I don't ever listen to JoeRogan, so don't come at me, but
do y'all.
Okay, I haven't.
Well, I'm going to give a quicksummary and I encourage
(07:37):
everyone to listen to this.
So Jewel was born into a wildworld in Alaska.
Basically, she was suicidal by15.
And then she saw other peoplethat were happy and she was like
I want that.
And she devoted her whole lifeto figuring out what that was.
Um, by like 18, she was offereda million dollars to sign with
somebody and she's like thisdoesn't feel right, I'm good,
(07:58):
I'd rather live out of my carbecause I know that million
dollars won't make me happy.
And she waited another howevermany years.
That first album Can't rememberwhat it's called, but we all
listened to it On repeat, Onrepeat, and she made $12 million
a month that year.
Anyways, her whole stance onthis is if you see it, you can
(08:20):
decide to do it.
Like you just have to go.
And I say go after it Like shedidn't decide.
Oh, I'm not going to killmyself anymore.
But she looked around and waslike I want what they have and
she did it and I think that's alittle bit of what we lack now
and I've talked about on herebefore, but this like grittiness
to us.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
Yeah, I think that was.
I think that when I got aroundhealthier people, that was the
big revelation for me of likewhoa I want what they have, I
want what they have.
I see them living a differentlife than me and they seem more
content.
They seem like they they have.
There was not an unsettlednessabout them and there was always
(08:58):
an unsettledness about myselfthat I was like I don't like
that.
But then, but it took mechanging environments completely
to even feel like I hadpermission to change.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
So y'all are talking about pretty self-aware change.
But then there's this flip tothat of you're in partnership
and partnership and parentstypically are like the hot
topics in therapy of my momshows up like this and it sucks.
My dad shows up like this and itsucks, so I'm and I'm miserable
and fuck them, or my husband,my wife, my girlfriend, my
boyfriend, whoever.
(09:28):
If they did these things, Iwould be happier, and I think
that's a super importantnarrative and I think that was
why you asked the question today, like before we started.
Can people change what happensif they don't?
This is the setup.
So I hear all the timeclinically, or even friends or
whoever this person, if theydidn't do these things, I would
(09:50):
feel so much better.
What do you think about that?
Speaker 1 (09:53):
I think that an unhealthy dynamic always makes
you think that it's probably theother person and that if they
would just do all these thingsand you would, you would feel
better.
But ultimately, like I don'tknow better, but ultimately like
I don't know, I don't, I don'tagree with that.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
I feel like making concessions right is a good
thing for you and your partnerto do to small extents, to like,
yeah, hear them out andwhatever.
But, boy, if you are in arelationship where you're really
wanting to change that otherperson, maybe not the
relationship for you for sure.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
So and we'll do both sides, because I see both where
it's like a person is being toldthey need to change to make the
other person happy, which sucks.
And then I've seen the otherside of if they would just
change and I used to be in thatcamp.
I needed my mom to be all ofthese other things to make me
happy, um, in our relationship,and that that didn't work out
(10:46):
for us until I did the therapywork and she said that I was
pleasant.
But that was like proof in thepudding of like I went and did
the therapy, it changed thedynamic and then we got along
better.
So that that's a tough one toswallow.
So let's go with the dynamic ofI need this person to change
it's for me to be happy, or I'mwaiting for this person to
(11:06):
change to's for me to be happy,or I'm waiting for this person
to change to be happy.
So I, as they know, I'm on thislike big yoga path right now
okay, and we're all reallyexcited, are you?
Speaker 1 (11:17):
I love it.
I think it's awesome.
I've loved watching you like beso happy pursuing it thank you.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Um, so this has required a lot, like daily
meditation, daily movement, likedaily yoga every single morning
, and it has revived a lot ofwhat I think was like dormant in
me.
It has, like, awakened me, likewhat you said, like you just
wake up and I'm looking at thesethings and I'm like, oh my gosh
(11:45):
, I can do this and I can bebetter.
And I'm married to someone that, like, is not going to get up
and I'm looking at these thingsand I'm like, oh my gosh, I can
do this and I can be better.
And I'm married to someone that, like, is not gonna get up and
do yoga.
And it scared me at first and Iwas like, oh my god, like we're
not on this yogic path togetherand he needs to see all of the
light that I am seeing.
And so every day I'm like, well, let me tell you about the
(12:08):
goddess Lakshmi, and like, howcool the blood like just fucking
constantly could not stoprunning my mouth.
And he's like that is awesomeanyways, like he, he's being
like really sweet.
And then it hit me first of all, bobby's never gonna join my
little path, but in biggerthings in life, when someone is
(12:29):
growing and someone else isstagnant.
They'll either watch you growand join you or they won't.
And can you live with it or not?
And can I live with Bobby notdoing yoga?
100% yes.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Well, cause you.
That's like a hole in a gapthat you can fill with all your
yogi friends that do love yogaand we'll talk to you about the
goddess and the light and thewhatever else you're seeing.
Like I think I mean truly, I dothink that that is a big
misnomer is like you know thatyou're going to evolve.
If you're you're not growing,you're dying, as they say as
(13:06):
they say, whoever they are.
But I mean, if you're growingand your partner, like everybody
, grows at a different speed,though, right, so like.
But what happens when itdoesn't seem like they're
growing at all?
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Yeah, so that's when I see a ton of blame.
And what does research say?
That blame is Shame, yes, andInsecurity, dis discharge of
pain.
When I blame you, I puke mypain on you so I have a moment
of relief.
So when I need you to changefor me to be happy, I have
(13:40):
undealt with pain that I'mputting on you as your
responsibility.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Biggest thing I see in couples Like a codependent,
an unhealthy level ofcodependency of like I need you
to be good so I can be good.
Yeah, I need you to.
You've got to do these, checkthese boxes for me so that I can
be okay, and you're not doingthat, and so therefore, this
sucks and you won't change.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Yeah, like I'm depressed, I have anxiety.
But if you did X, y and Z,those things would be relieved.
Or our marriage is so boringand lacking but, laura, if you
did these things, our marriagewouldn't be boring and lacking
anymore.
So I need you to go do that, soI'm happier.
Those are, um, we can go backto our red flags episode.
That's a flag.
That's not like an irreparableflag, but it is a flag of your
(14:26):
partner has some shit theyhaven't dealt with and they're
safe enough with you, which isthe positive part to say.
What they're really saying isI'm hurt, I'm hurt, help me,
help me.
But it's coming out as fuck,you Fuck, you, fuck.
You Do these things so I feelbetter.
And guess what, if you went anddid all the things, they, they
don't feel better.
They would just move thegoalpost because they're still
(14:47):
unresolved.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Ugh.
Okay, so you're saying theperson who's saying I need you
to change to make me happy isactually the one that's most
messed up.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
In this specific scenario.
But let's say, like you'remarried to someone who's
struggling with sex addiction,like, of course they need to go
work.
That go do their work.
That's not a reflection of youin that moment.
It's like, hey, I need you togo deal with this so we have a
safe marriage, right?
That is a moment when, like,they've got to go do stuff.
(15:18):
What all you listeners have todifferentiate with is if someone
is telling me to change fortheir happiness and I'm not
doing something that is directlyputting like a life at stake or
putting us in danger.
That is not on me.
Now.
If they're like you yell at meevery Tuesday, that has to stop.
That's something for me to takea look at.
(15:39):
Am I being clear enough aboutwhen it's yours, when it's
theirs?
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Yeah, and I think like cause that feels very
partner oriented.
And it's funny, cause I thinkthat I've had some accidental
marriages, if you will.
And I had this friend that Ishared with my sister and she
called me and she's like, oh mygosh, so-and-so is getting
married again, and this was likethe fifth or sixth time she was
going to be getting marriedWell beyond, beyond yours.
(16:05):
Well, oh, so many moreaccidentals than I had.
But and this is not I'm not atall and I understand how it
happens.
You know, typically you'relooking for somebody to make you
happy, right, but like Iremember saying so what is she
saying about this guy?
And she said, well, this guy'sgoing to make her happy.
And I was like, y'all know howwe feel about that and he's just
(16:27):
this, he's just that, he's justthis.
And I'm like, but is shedifferent?
Has she changed?
Because typically, if you'veexperienced your own
transformation, you have a lotmore grace when other people are
trying to navigate theirs.
And I think that is like a,from a partnership perspective,
is the thing we forget, likemaybe you forgot when you were
in a hard season or you werenavigating change, and so then
(16:50):
you don't have as much grace forthe other person.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Yeah, I think you nailed it with.
That's the difference in blameversus like growth mindset and
grace of fuck you for being thisway, or hey, this is hard for
me.
What do you think about it?
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Like, like, hey, man, it feels like we're still
hanging out in the same areathat we've been in for like a
year and a half.
Like, are you open to taking astep with me?
What would that look like?
Speaker 2 (17:14):
yes, okay, I feel like that was clear, wilbur
clear yeah, crystal yeah, allright, let's talk about parents
la.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
So this is the hardest for me because I have a
mom who has not been presentmost of my life and then I have
a dad who has been present.
But also, I had this dream onetime that like messed me up.
I remember telling Claire aboutit, but I first called Shelly
and I was like, oh my God, Ijust had this crazy dream.
(17:45):
The dream was I had this houseand I was letting my dad move
into the house, but I had movedall of the furniture the like
really nice fancy furniture andart and everything in the
basement and I was like, hey,just don't mess with that, I'm
going to come back.
And then, when we can like moveit or sell it or whatever, I
come back a month later and hehas sold everything.
(18:07):
And he said but don't worryabout it.
And he gave me $300.
This was probably hundreds ofthousands of dollars worth of
shit in the bottom of my pocket.
And this is a dream.
It's a dream, but in the dreamthis was this huge chasm, him
saying no worries, here's $300.
And I remember afterwards beingso mad like this is the kind of
(18:29):
shit I'm talking about, that hewould think that that's
inappropriate, like that's soinappropriate.
And my best friend said isn'tthat kind of what you do all the
time?
You keep going to the ATM ofyour dad trying to pull out
$1,000 and really only has $100to offer you and I was like I've
(18:50):
got to call you back bitch.
But then I was like, yes, thatis what I do all the time.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
Well, shelly's a poet and didn't know it.
Yes, but it reminds me of theactual real life story with you
and your dad, where he won thelottery and gave you like $10.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
$100.
Whatever.
Yeah, he was like here we'regoing to split this A half a
millionaire.
And he was like I'm sending yousomething real nice.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
And it was $100.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Like directly oh, it's a direct but that was
before this dream was beforethat actually happened, and I
remember being like, yes,foreshadowing of what was to
come.
But I think, like when I lookat my parents, I have one that
was present but also disengaged,so that's my dad.
And then I have my mom, whostruggled with addiction and,
(19:36):
you know, had a lot of reallymessed up stuff happen and the
more I learned about both ofthem.
There was a season of my life,probably my 20, where I was like
they don't care about me, theywon't support me, they suck and
they won't change.
They're always gonna be thisway and this is just my reality
and that was one way to look atit.
(19:59):
I don't hate that way and youknow what?
It's a totally fine way and youcan find a lot of peace there
because you can just be likethey're not going to change.
This is it I think that I'veprobably shifted into, because I
still think that I thinkthere's a really slim chance I'm
ever going to get a differentrelationship with either one of
my parents.
I mean, truly one of them isintolerably so and the other one
(20:24):
is just like how much can youreally handle?
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Okay so, but where I've landed with it is like, the
more I know about their story,the more I'm like that tracks.
So that metaphor of likekeeping, like going to the ATM
and not getting anything out ofit, that's what we're set up to
do with parents that don't have,uh, I guess, the groundedness,
the security to say, hey, I hearyou and you're right.
(20:55):
Um, that's what we deal with Ifwe have narcissistic parents.
Um, typically narcissisticmothers are going to have some
kind of like, uh, unspokenjealousy with you if you're her
daughter.
That happens a lot.
Narcissistic fathers verycharming, very attention seeking
.
I'm giving like the literalthumbnail version, but those are
probably my more extreme casesof we're biologically set up to
(21:20):
look to these people forsecurity.
It's how nature works.
These people are going to loveyou and take care of you and
then humans suck compared to,like a mother deer who's taking
care of her child and so theanimal kingdom really does this
better in some cases, but thenthey also like eat their
children sure of them, so teachtheir own teach, teach.
(21:43):
But the more dramatic cases ofthis are if I have an alcoholic
parent that's actively drinking,if I have a narcissistic parent
, if I have an unmedicatedbipolar parent like these.
These are people that, like Iwould go with the 20 something
laura of.
Like they can't give me what Ineed, I'm gonna go find it
elsewhere well and I'll say likethat was my solution was to put
(22:05):
up.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
I wouldn't have called them boundaries, because
I had no idea what a boundarywas in my 20s, but I just went
kind of no contact for most ofmy 20s.
And when I did allow them tocome in, I was so disappointed
To be like never invited to aholiday until 10 minutes before
(22:26):
or like and I know there'sprobably a lot of people
listening that that's your storyLike you're, you might be like
you're the last person on thelist for your family and you
don't find out and maybe likepart of your family is super
duper close and they're theycould do things together.
And then all of a suddenthey're like oh damn, we forgot
to call laura.
Let's just tell her.
We're down here at the pfchangs, we've come to alabama if
you want to join us, and I'mlike I actually remember you
(22:49):
going literally a actual thing.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
I feel like your family might be intimidated by
you.
I don't know your family, butlike you're, you know you got
will scared of you.
That's what he's trying to say.
Oh, you know, I'm not, you gotstuff going on.
You of you is what he's tryingto say.
Oh, you know, I'm not, you gotstuff going on.
You're doing stuff, you'resuccessful.
I don't know, maybe they'relike Maybe they've heard the
podcast.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Yeah, probably Maybe they've heard the podcast.
No PF Changs for her.
But I will say this and I wantto family as an example, because
I do think it represents a lotof the world feels similar to
how I feel, like on the outfront, on the outside fringe,
maybe you have a drug addictparent and and that's really
(23:32):
hard maybe you have a parentthat's not diagnosed but has
some mental illness they'rewalking around with or
borderline personality, whatever, it doesn't really matter.
At the end of of the day,that's super lonely, it sucks so
bad.
And so I also just want to sayI am grateful my mom gave birth
to me.
I wouldn't be here without her,being a brave 17 year old who
(23:55):
decided to choose life when shehad every reason not to.
And the same thing, my dadworked two and three jobs when I
was growing up to provide forus, and you know like it wasn't,
like their life wasn't easyeither.
I'm at this place where I tryand see like I'm not saying it's
okay what they do, but I amsaying I've got to a place, at
(24:15):
41, where I can give a lot ofgrace, and so I do talk a lot of
shit about them.
Maybe they just don't they.
It might be a little like wedon't get her, and I think that
I think that's true.
I think there's a lot of like.
I always ask my sister like buthave they read any books?
And if the answer is no, thenthey have not changed.
(24:35):
Nothing has changed, um, andthat is my sentiment.
However, now I say I know theyhaven't changed, I acknowledge
they haven't changed and I amwilling to still go into the
lion's den.
I think I could do it for twohours.
I think I can make it through adinner.
I love.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
I have two things I love that.
Um, you came to this middleroad of I can tolerate two hours
Cause you know I have a hardtime with that harsh pendulum
swing of like my mom made me mad, so I'm not seeing them for
holidays or whatever it is thatwe have made popular on
Instagram.
(25:10):
Yes, like you've been through alot with these people and you
now have this understanding ofof course, y'all know I love the
of course, like of course, theyhad to do it this way.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
That's what great therapists do.
They look at you and they go,of course.
Of course that happened andnobody my parents haven't been
through therapy y'all.
I have the gift of like I'vetransformed my life.
Yes, maybe because I partiallylooked in the mirror and was
like whoa, don't really likethis.
I'm looking at myself andlooking at these healthy people
and realizing there's this bigdivide.
So I made a change.
(25:44):
They I don't know that they'vehad that luxury.
I don't think they've beenexposed to the same things I've
been exposed to, and maybe theyhaven't had that awakening,
maybe they never will.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
But they're all I got .
I would really encourage you ifyour parent won't change in the
sense of we do gentle parenting, but my parents don't like
lighten up, you know.
And what I mean by gentleparenting and they don't is you
know?
There's this whole thing, doy'all know?
There's this thing where youshouldn't tell your kids you're
(26:13):
proud of them.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
I've seen that.
I've seen the Instagram Hate.
I posted it on Instagram.
It's so bad, it's like allthese things you can't do, like
you can't do, like you can't sayyou're proud of them you need
to be proud, like we're proud orsomething it's like.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
You have to be like specific, but also make it like
neutral, because if you're proud, then you could also be
inclined to be disappointed.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Basically, it's a terrifying world we live in with
all these weird, but this isthis is real.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Like people like, well, you know, we're gentle
parenting and we don't saythings like I'm proud and I have
boomer parents and like y'all,they don't know, but I bet
they're not like whooping yourkids I mean, that did happen to
us growing up.
But like times have changed andso I would really encourage
people to take a look at ishealth and safety really at
(27:02):
stake here, or do I not justlike this part of them and can I
learn how to tolerate it?
Speaker 1 (27:10):
That's where you get to shift into flexibility and
compassion.
I think I actually have acouple friends who has a little
girl, like she's very, verylittle, and there's one parent
that just goes rogue like onegrandparent.
That's just like doing whateverthe hell they want, and I think
it's kind of she's definitelyin the camp of.
This is the way I am Get overit, like mom, the grandmother,
and I'm always erring on theside of like, yeah, that sounds
(27:33):
insane and that would be reallyheavy.
Also, you've got to pick andchoose your battle, because if
everything is a battle with yourboomer parent, you're just
going to live in turmoil all thetime.
So like, yes, you're doinggentle parenting and if you're
like most parents, that means90% of the time it's happening
(27:54):
the way you want it to happenand 10% is not going to change
the trajectory of your child'slife.
Like if they say they're proudof them because 90% of the time
they hear you doing it.
However, gentle parents aresupposed to do it, which, let me
tell you, I am not the gentleparent to talk to and no one has
ever come into my office andsaid that their deepest wound
(28:18):
was that their parents told themthat they were proud of them.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
No, pretty sure it's the opposite of that I do want
to go back to.
If you're in the situation withyour partner where you're
banking on them to change foryour happiness, I would pop into
therapy, to be honest, yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
And oh, this is a good one.
Damn, because Claire and I knowso many people who are either
talking to us about therapy orlike they're curious, therapy.
Curious.
If you show up and you'retalking about your spouse, your
partner, your loved one, yourgirlfriend, your boyfriend,
about them going to therapy, butyou're not doing your own work,
(29:00):
shut the literal hell up, stopDo not kind of mean today.
I know we do or you do, I doeveryone All right.
I'm sorry if we sound mean.
I'm just saying that if youhave the capacity to think about
what your spouse or partnerneeds and you think it's therapy
, they should be in therapy.
(29:20):
But you're not in therapy, goget in therapy, because the
tools that you'll have tonavigate that relationship in a
different way because I thinksometimes it's like, well, they
just need to be in therapy.
It's like are you in therapy,so making appointments?
What you're saying.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
It is.
This is kind of what I want tosay, but when we talk about
change, it's reallyuncomfortable and we'll start it
with a really subtle piece of.
I was not content, so I found away to become content.
So none of what we're talkingabout is one 80 change to me.
This is how am I more pleasant,how do I show up in my morals
(30:01):
and my values, how I want to bea wife, a mother those are my
biggest roles a therapist, afriend.
And what's stopping me fromgetting to those places?
Okay, and then those are theconversations you can have with
really safe partners of hey,this is where I'm stuck.
What do you think about that?
Like, have you ever asked yourpartner?
I feel stuck.
Would you agree, being braveenough to ask someone you love,
(30:24):
what do you really think aboutsome of my behaviors?
And sitting with it, what doyou think of my strengths?
What do you think of myweaknesses?
And just saying thank you tothat?
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Oh, that's some that does take therapy.
When Shane and I have a Sundaymeeting and one of the things we
ask is like what can I dobetter?
Like is there anything I can dobetter this week?
And sometimes Shane will justhit me with a real zinger and
I'll hate it.
And sometimes I hit him with azinger and he probably hates it.
But like, I do think that islike a level of honesty that if
(30:52):
you can have it, if you can bebrave enough to talk about where
you're stuck, you might giveyour partner permission to talk
about where they are and I willtell you if your partner's stuck
and in a lot of pain and pukingit up all over, you just keep
doing your work Like if you'rein a secure marriage and it's
falling apart a little bit.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
Like you keep doing your work.
Just like Bobby won't do yoga,like I keep doing it and he'll
either join the path or he won't, you keep moving forward.
Your partner gets to join youor they can't, that's it.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
Yeah, I'll simplify this a little bit.
But like my marriage the firstmarriage it just got to a point
like we went to counseling andshe was wanting me to change in
a way that would have made meunhappy, and so just kind of
came to that agreement of, likeothers, I can't do that, because
then I would be unhappy andthat, even though that those
changes might make you happy,wouldn't make me happy.
(31:42):
So let's just be co-parents,and that's how that happened.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
God, I love vulnerable will.
That was so great, yeah, and Ican.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
I wasn't going to have a cubicle job and that was
that was one of them that feelslike a pretty big non-negotiable
for you.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Yeah, okay, well, take out the part where I was
mean, cause I.
Okay.
Well, take out the part where Iwas mean, because I feel like
you said what I said, but better, I was just being funny.
You're good, are you sure?
I feel bad.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
He'll listen and take it out of me.
All right, Claire's got twomore things.
I know, I'm just kidding, Icould always come up with more,
but Claire's got a list of fivemore things I mean every a news
segment at the end, where it'sjust you sending me voice memos
of things you wish.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
you would have said have y'all seen the Martha?
Speaker 3 (32:26):
Stewart, I've seen just the two of them.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
Wait, have y'all seen the Martha Stewart documentary?
Okay, she is saying things menhave been saying forever, but
she's saying them sostraight-faced.
She was like, if your husband'scheating on you, divorce him
immediately.
And then the guy goes weren'tyou cheating on him?
(32:50):
And she was like, yes, but thatwas different.
I was like but she sends avoice memo in there and she's
like these panties on the Eastside are dead and that makes me
very unhappy and I was like yes,let's go, claire.
Hey, thank you guys forlistening.
We love having you here.
We're so happy to be back forseason two.
Please give us a review, shareus with your friends and if you
(33:13):
ever want to reach out and youhave a topic you want us to
cover or something that you'rejust wondering about, let us
know.
Speaker 3 (33:20):
Before you Cut Things is hosted by Claire Fehrman and
Laura Quick and produced by me,Will Ockamy.
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