January 3, 2025 • 32 mins
Are you listening!? Will probably isn't. Laura and Claire explore the complexities of being a good listener, discussing different approaches to friends versus acquaintances, and the role personal boundaries play in these interactions.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to, before you Cut Bangs.
I'm Laura Quick and I'm ClaireFehrman.
I am a professional storytellerand I'm currently working on my
first book.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
I have worked in mental health for many years in
lots of capacities and this is areally important time to tell
you our big disclaimer this isnot therapy.
We are not your therapists orcoaches or anything like that.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Yeah, I mean you shouldn't really trust us very
much at all, unless you want toand it turns out well, then you
can trust us, that's great.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
I've got a question.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Yeah, let's get to it .
Praise the Lord.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
If you had to listen to one album, if you could only
listen to that album for therest of your life you're stuck
with that one album what wouldit be?
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Can it be two?
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Well, that'd be cheating, but sure.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Simon and Garfunkel, wednesday morning 3 am.
Grateful Dead.
American Beauty Okay.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
I am stuck.
Which out who's that by?
Yeah, laura Quick, I'm stuckwhich out who's that by?
yeah, laura quick, I'm stuck theanswer was Clayton oh, yeah,
yeah, yeah his new EP out now onall streaming platforms, called
shitty, which he literally didon purpose, because he's like I
(01:22):
just want to look back at thisand be like.
In case I think it's shitty ina year or two years I'll be like
yeah, so what?
Because his last song on thatalbum is called Shitty Song.
He wrote it for a girl.
They went through a breakup andthe girl he was dating her
boyfriend wrote a really shittysong and released it and it went
pretty big about her and so hewrote a song in response called
(01:45):
shitty song.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
So Alanis Morissette?
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Yeah, he's very 1990s for the 2003, kid he is.
Yeah, obviously my favoritealbum on repeat would be
anything by Clayton or Coldplay.
I mean, I got a lot of thatnostalgic parachutes parachutes
Like how can you be mad at thatalbum?
It's still good.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Most people that aren't really into Coldplay much
like that album it's what Ihear from people.
The Beatles the White Album.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
It's a good one.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
So many songs.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
It kind of flows, that's a good one.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
I haven't heard that album in a while.
I remember getting that forChristmas actually it's the
first album not that I purchased, but that I was wearing out to
the point where Reed was like Ithink you need to take a break
because you're going to hatethat record if you continue this
.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
But that didn't happen.
That's how I do.
That's called ADHD.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
That's what we do.
I'm listening now.
I'm listening.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
That's perfect, because today we're talking
about A listening and Bappropriately and be
appropriately using your voice.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
I think is how I would say that, yeah, I think
one of the things, one we'relaunching into a brand new year
so it's 2025 now which isexciting.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Y'all have all joined Planet Fitness and are on a
Whole30 or Keto.
We know, we see you.
We know what you've done, wesee you.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Or maybe you haven't, and that's totally cool too.
But at the end of the day it'sa new year and we get to do
things differently than maybewe've done them before.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
And I should point out that this is another outside
on the front porch episode, andso there's like a fire.
You may hear there's alawnmower, a blower or something
going.
So it's just you know.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
You hear some nature tap, tap, tap with my
fingernails.
Okay, but truly I think one ofthe big overarching themes is
how do you listen and not betempted to fix Claire?
Speaker 2 (03:31):
we had this big movement about using your voice,
speak your truth, which I thinkis hard for people and we can
touch on that if we get to it.
But to me, what is moredifficult than speaking truth or
what I've observed working withpeople, is listening to
somebody else's, because it canbe so uncomfortable and
(03:53):
immediately if someone's tellingus and I don't even mean in
Will's biggest nightmareconfrontation, I just mean
something distressing, sad, hard, whatever it is, typically our
nervous system responds tightenup, rapid heart rate, shortness
of breath and we're eitherprepared to respond and fix like
you're asking, let me tell youall the solutions or to defend
(04:18):
and all that is is our way toself-soothe and you know what
happens to that person talking,what they feel, so disconnected.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
I think I'm gonna speak for myself like one of the
things that I know is astruggle and has required a ton
and the thing that changed mebecause I do think there's some
things that happen in our livesthat convince us listening is
actually the nicest, kindestthing we can do for someone else
, especially when they're givingyou a hard part of their story
(04:50):
or something really traumaticthat happened to them.
Group therapy changed thetrajectory of my life because in
group, a great therapist willnot let you make somebody feel
like, won't let you sootheyourself in that moment moment
which I think what Claire'ssaying is a lot of times like
somebody shares something withyou and you go, oh man, that is
(05:13):
terrible, or how dare they, orwhatever it is, whatever the
response is, and instead that'slike in group, you're allowed to
say I resonate with that yeah,you tell how you relate yeah, I
relate to that in blank, but Ithink that it taught me a lot,
and so I have had to teachmyself how to say what do you
(05:35):
need from me in this moment, andgive people an opportunity to
say, hey, I need advice or Ijust need you to listen, because
, man, I will, will.
I would love to build you a fivepoint plan.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
So what you're talking about.
And there's this newer bookcalled secure love.
I highly, highly, highlyrecommend it.
Whether you're married, dating,single, it doesn't matter.
Parent not parent, secure loveis amazing.
Talking about this, and one ofthe first things the author
Julie talks about is, um, whenwe can really really listen and
(06:07):
hear someone, we also have toknow what our need is, and so if
you're in some kind ofrelationship and that person
cannot identify what they needto feel connected to, you're
kind of fucked.
Sorry, thanks, that hits.
So I'll throw me and Bobbyright under the bus.
So we went to couples therapyrecently and I was really angry
(06:31):
about some things, and I amusually the person in couples
therapy that's like you go ahead, let me sit here and listen,
but I was pissed and so I justlike go for it.
And the therapist who's atherapist who sees therapists,
like that's very key um for me.
Um, she's like we're just gonnago back to basics, bobby, what
(06:53):
I want you to look at Claire andtell her what she said.
And he looks at her and is likesounds like she has a lot of
high expectations and thattherapist was.
Well, I didn't hear her saythat at all.
Can you look at Claire andrepeat back what you heard her
say?
He's still looking at her andshe's like no, I didn't hear her
say that.
Can you look at Claire?
And poor Bobby man, he's souncomfortable and he's getting
(07:17):
red with that Scottish skin andI'm like and I really did feel
bad in the moment, I wanted tocheat so bad and be like just
think about it, man, what I justsaid and that precious
therapist said what you're doingis so human.
We get so worried about whatour loved one is trying to say
(07:37):
that we start working reallyhard and we cannot hear her.
And he's like you're right, Ididn't listen at all and like
but it was like such freedom forhim to be told like you were so
scared, you were so worriedthat you just couldn't do it and
it was great.
Well, you want to get it right?
Speaker 1 (07:55):
I think I did.
Obviously you did get it rightwhen he had a turn.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
She's like Claire.
What did you hear him say?
Speaker 1 (08:06):
And I was like well, actually I'll verbatim give it
back to you right now he saidblanking, blanking, blanking.
I will win.
And I think, like mirroring issomething that I do a lot and
work like.
Obviously I have clients whoare dumping like oh my gosh,
here's all the things, and somirroring back to people is
something I do for a day-to-daypart of my job.
But that's not necessarily whata person, a friend, who comes
(08:27):
to you and they tell you oh mygod, here's this heavy thing
that just happened, whether it'slike something with their kids
or something in theirrelationship or a deep loss or
whatever and I'm just likegeared to be a fixer.
I want to fix it for you, Iwant to make it better, and so
it's why Because, claire, itmakes me feel valuable and
(08:49):
listening makes me feel stupid.
I mean, it's like not reallystupid, but I think it makes me
feel a little helpless.
Are you a fixer?
Speaker 3 (08:58):
No, I was gonna say, because a lot of times like no
look within my you know coregroup or whatever, but no,
because a lot of times, like now, look within my you know core
group or whatever, but no,because a lot of times like
that's none of my business,that's so beautiful.
It is Well.
Also.
It makes me feel selfish,though.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Say more about that.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
Well, okay, I'm a bad listener.
For one Right, which is kind ofdifferent than what we were
just saying Go ahead.
But that is based purely on my,like, chemical makeup.
It's not trying to be selfishor not caring or whatever, it's
just that it's like reading abook.
I can, you know, read a chapterand have no idea what I read,
even though I'm the one readingit, because my brain can be
thinking about something else.
(09:35):
And that's the same thing inconversation sometimes with
people where I realize, like oh,you've left the building.
Yeah, Like I don't know whatthey just said.
I was trying Whatever, so thatI'm just inherently a bad
listener, but also it's thatwhole thing of like other people
.
It's why I could not care anyless about any like celebrity
couple or any couple that is notactually that I'm involved with
(09:57):
like talking to all the time,because I don't.
Why do I need that?
Why do I need that drama?
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Well, I don't, why do I need that?
Why do I need that drama?
Well, and I think you've just Iwrote down something too
earlier when we were kind oftalking about this is like tier
one friends, like how you listento your tier one friends and
how you listen to a tier two ortier three.
To me they're different,because if I call you and I say
here's what just happened, youdon't really have to ask me.
Are you asking me?
For if I called you, it'sbecause I'm freaking out and I
(10:28):
need you.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
I still ask you that you do you do she's so kind
about that I bet even like tiertwo, tier three friends I would
be like oh yeah, tell me, I'lltry to give them advice on
something relationship-wise orwhatever.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
I'm just talking about people that I'm not really
Well like.
Yeah, but hopefully thosepeople aren't trauma bombing you
right in public.
But I do think, like I findmyself I never try to give
advice to the cashier.
I don't even though I have theface, and the cashier is like do
you know what just happened tome and my son?
We haven't talked in threeyears and I don't even know if
he's coming for Christmas thisyear.
Like I have that face.
People tell me those things andI'm always like that sounds
(11:10):
really hard.
How much is it, you know?
Speaker 2 (11:12):
like is there a coupon for that?
So y'all are talking about twovery different reasons of not
listening Bobby's more on youlike he'll kind of drift away
into something else, and I seeit in his eyes and that doesn't
bother me.
I mean it can be annoying to behonest, but it's, it doesn't
(11:32):
feel malicious.
I'm always like come on back,we got this, you know.
And then you're talking about asense of urgency your
discomfort is distressing to me.
So here's 27 things in order,with an appendix to make it
better.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Five point plan I've actually created a PowerPoint
presentation that I would loveto go through as you were
talking.
It's in my brain, but I'llproject it.
I think it's the same thing forme, like I'll and it's.
I am an active listener.
I listen to, really hear people, but it's mostly because of the
way my brain works and as astrategist.
(12:08):
So I'm thinking about astrategy, but I am really
listening because this is howI'm programmed at work.
So I'm always thinking abouthow to solve problems because
it's what I get paid to do, butthat's not necessarily great for
friends who don't want me tofix their shit okay, but like
with danielle, if she's tellingme a work thing like oh listen
to this terrible thing, whateverI am thinking about solutions
(12:29):
for it, as she's talking to me,should I not be doing that?
Speaker 2 (12:33):
Does she want a solution?
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Well, I guess that's why she's telling me about it,
right?
Speaker 2 (12:37):
That's.
Yeah, that's probably the oneIn like basic psychotherapy, if
you just tell your story and thepuzzle pieces fit together, we
typically have relief ofsymptomology.
Okay, just sharing that's evenwithout a therapist saying
here's some strategy, here'smaybe you should talk to a
psychiatrist.
That's.
Even before that, we typicallyfind some amount of like a
(12:59):
reduction of symptoms.
Because I said it out loud, Isaw him.
Yeah, and I'm like, oh, and I'mconnecting the good dots, Like a
good therapist is just likeshine a light here, shine a
light here, You're the expert,meaning the client, Boom.
So I would see what Daniel'sresponse is.
Is next time she tells yousomething?
(13:19):
If she'd be like do you have afever?
If you were like do you want meto just listen or do you want
some ideas?
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Okay, and we don't have.
It's nothing weird.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
I mean usually it is just a discussion.
I think she always is like whatshould I do about this or
whatever?
Didn't hear anything weird.
Nothing weird.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
You're great, you're doing everything right and I
think, like that has been, andthat's probably my you want to
help the people you love.
I don't want you to be indistress, but most of the time
I'm soothing myself if I stepinto your story and try to fix
it for you.
Instead of asking the questionlike, do you want me to listen
(13:59):
or do you want some ideas?
Are you looking for me to help?
And my friends now it's kind ofthe thing I say, and so they'll
say no, no, I want your ideas.
Or hey, listen, put your ideahat on, I need help with this.
Or hey, I think we might haveto kill.
I have a friend, literally, whois like we're going to kill
these bitches who did this eventLike they're trying to come
(14:21):
after me.
I'm like we ride at dawn, let'sgo, you know.
So again, obviously it wouldnot actually really kill anyone.
Please know that.
But I think helping peoplestrategically is something that
people know I love doing, but Idon't want to do that for people
who don't want it.
I don't want to try and fixthings that don't actually need
(14:42):
to be fixed, because you becomeyour own solution person if you
just get to say it out loudsometimes so what both of y'all
are describing, even thoughthey're different, there's
things to do, like if you're adrifter, which I just watched
you drift away.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
I was listening, though.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
I heard you okay, I see it.
Yeah, but I can do, I canlisten to multiple things there.
I can, yeah, all right um,basically, I have to prep bobby.
We even had one this morning.
I was like, hey, I have an idea, but I don't want.
I mean, this sounds cold.
But I knew what I needed.
I knew if I shared an idea andhe told me the ways to do it
(15:18):
better or if it was wrong, thatI would become defensive and
unheard and that's reallypainful for me.
So I was like I have an ideaabout our house and that's a big
sticky point I think, probablyin a lot of marriages.
What are we going to do?
Buy, sell, build, whatever?
We had these discussions athousand times and my request
was I'm just hoping to share,like my dream with you.
(15:40):
It's just a dream.
I'm not getting a secondmortgage, I haven't hired an
architect, I've thought aboutall of those things, but I want
you to hear my dream and listen.
And he listened and he's likethat is a really good idea.
And I see him pause and he'slike how do you want to pay for
it?
And I was like nope, and I waslike just dreams, just dreams.
And he was like okay, he waslike that's a really lovely
(16:01):
dream.
I was like perfect.
So that was his discomfort.
That's how he's super, superwired.
And so to me, everybody's workin any kind of listening,
whether it's professionally, inany kind of relationship with
Laura's Uber driver, it's how doI soothe myself so this person
feels connected to.
And when I say soothe, I don'tI mean for Bobby and Will.
(16:25):
It's not like y'all are cryingbecause we're sharing something
that happened at work.
It's my mind has a tendency towander off.
Can I pay attention to my feeton the floor?
Can I focus on my partner'seyes, you know, or whatever it
is, or something she's holdingso I can stay focused?
And for you it's like quiet,quiet, quiet.
Feel my feet as well.
(16:47):
What can I focus on?
Because both of y'all have tosoothe.
It's just busyness in there.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
And I think like I'm still working on it Same.
I'm still working on how tomake sure that I'm genuinely
staying engaged and not takingaway someone's, because I do
think that's what I do when Ijump the gun to go solution Take
away somebody's pain, take awaytheir pain, which is is
(17:12):
impossible, by the way, rightcan you not help?
Speaker 3 (17:15):
you can help with their pain.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Oh my gosh, yes, but I think the like.
The premise of this is like,literally, someone hearing me
reduces symptomology withoutsolution, and I think that's the
therapeutic side, right?
Speaker 1 (17:31):
is that just letting someone be heard is actually a
big relief.
So if they're in a pressurecooker which a lot of times
that's how it feels if somethingfeels super overwhelming and
you pick up the phone and youyou phone a friend and you're
like oh my god, this thing justhappened.
Whether it's traumatic or hard,or a fight with a partner or
whatever it is, you just sayingit to someone releases some of
(17:54):
the pressure on the pressurecooker.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
Yes, so, and let's flip it to talking okay.
So, um, theoretically and thisis actually I couldn't even name
what research this is from thisis more like hippie folklore.
Seems like a stretch hippiedippy yoga.
Claire is in the building, folkstheoretically between the ages
(18:20):
of 7 to 12.
Developmentally, if you hadsomething traumatic happen to
you and I mean small trauma, big, whatever you're less likely to
um, have strength in your voice, less clear, and you can do
work and redeem all of that butor heal all of that.
So, um, but I don't mean lesslikely to use my voice, just in
(18:40):
the sense of I'm quiet and Idon't share the truth.
Sometimes people are overlyvocal.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
You're kidding.
I've never met anyone that hada trauma between the ages of 7
and 12.
Who's overly?
Speaker 2 (18:52):
vocal, so it can really go both of those ways.
What the fuck are you serious?
Are you fucking with me rightnow?
Speaker 1 (19:00):
no, I didn't realize that specific age was a thing.
Oh yeah, that a lot of thingsmake sense for me in this moment
.
Just write me a check afterthis, okay, so this here, comes
the hippie part throat chakra.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Okay, so right here, Um, and like I said earlier, we
went through this big thing oflike use your voice and be
authentic.
Well, some of y'all didn't shutthe fuck up and you're crying
on Instagram.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Okay, well, I'm not doing that, but I didn't mean
yes.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Yeah.
So what I'm saying is is we hadthis idea that all of us were
being quiet and keeping allthese things to ourselves, and
that is very true for a lot ofpeople.
And then other people swung sohard into really crazy over
vocalization or and I'm totallyguilty of this Mine isn't
necessarily.
I'm too quiet.
Sometimes I'm like you'remisunderstanding me.
All I want is to be understood.
So I'm totally guilty of this.
Mine isn't necessarily.
I'm too quiet.
(19:50):
Sometimes I'm like you'remisunderstanding me.
All I want is to be understood.
So I'm going to be loud and crymy eyes out and guess what?
Nobody's needs were met.
Okay, so with each of thesechakras, like our energy centers
, today we're talking about ourthroat.
It isn't just about talking,it's about can I listen and
(20:11):
tolerate it?
The demon against the throatchakra and I love this is lies,
and I don't think it means likecrazy banana town lies which
we've told good stories of,those particularly from Will's
history, but not him lying, hejust accommodates liars
(20:33):
sometimes.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Will knows how to find a good liar.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
It's like if I hold this and don't tell you the
whole truth right now, that's alie, so, lying, by omission, I'm
going to leave out parts ofthis.
So I'm comfortable and you'recomfortable, but really we're
both not in truth and you don'tget relief, none.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
So then you're comfortable, but really, we're
both not, and you don't getrelief, none so.
So then you?
You're still a pressure cooker,yeah, and now you also have the
guilt, or the shame that comesalong with that little tiny
mistruth you told, thinking youwere accomplishing something,
whatever that lie was convincingyou of at the time.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
And then we get to go back if we want to say when I
shared that thing with you, Ididn't say the whole truth.
I really should have added this, and usually the other person's
like what, Like, who cares?
Like you're all good but itfeels so, exposing.
So the demon is the lie whetherI'm overly vocal or a more
restrained person in my speechthere's a lie somewhere, dear
(21:31):
God, I did not realize that.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
I'm not going to go deep into this.
There's two things that came upfor me.
One, some psychotic shit thatyou've had me do over the time,
and I always ask you for thesethings.
But you know, one of the thingsthat I'll do is if Claire's
done anything, if she's got aguy or got a girl for something
I'm always like he's like well,send her my way.
I want to go check it out andalso.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Shelly, are you talking about the massage?
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Yes, I have had gongs on my literal ass because
she'll be like oh, this girl.
So I went and sat down with amassage therapist recently,
within the last 12 months,because Claire's like she's
magical and I'm like great.
So she sits you down, which notherapist has ever done, no
massage therapist has ever donefor me before.
(22:13):
She sat me down and she waslike why are you here?
And I was like you know, I justreally like I've been going
through a lot and I, you knowI'm working on this book and
like there's a lot of like stuffthat's coming up for me, some
related, some not related.
Probably all of it's related.
So I'm not related, probablyall of it's related.
And she's like great.
And then she was like well, youknow your body, your throat,
like she was just saying, butyour body is keeping the score.
(22:35):
And I said I know.
And she said, no, you don'tfucking know.
And I was like I probably don'tknow.
And then I had the weirdestfucking 55 minutes of my life.
I don't even know how.
She was sprinting around theroom dinging all the dongs and
the gongs.
There was one literally on myass.
At one point she was standingon top of me.
(22:57):
There's a lot happening.
There are bells, there arechimes Chanting, a lot of.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
She was like don't worry about the.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
Did you not laugh.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
I literally was underneath and all I could see
was her feet darting around theroom, and then, when they would
disappear completely, I would belike she's on top of me.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
I don't know what she did to me, but I start crying
so loud.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
What I was weeping.
I was weeping.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
I wish I could say it was weeping for me, but it was
like I am not even going to sayit.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
I would be crying from laughing.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
You would think that I have laughed in situations
like that, where I'm like okay,this is cuckoo, there was no
laughter.
I wish I had laughed.
I've had two massages like that.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Okay, I brought that up because it's a great story.
It's a great story One.
The body keeping the score is areal thing.
So, thinking about your throat,if you were a child who was
told you can't use your voice,then a lot of times I mean a
reoccurring dream I have is thatI'm screaming and there's
nothing coming out.
I've had that my whole, my wholelife Like.
(24:06):
I cannot remember a time whereI didn't dream that dream.
Clearly, I'm loud as fuck, sowe all know I don't have a
problem using my voice now, butthat's one thing, and so that
makes a lot of sense.
Another lady you sent me to notweird, super sweet, the lady in
Mountain Brook, what's her namethat you were like she will
help you, and then I saw colorsand she was like use your voice.
(24:28):
What does Anita say?
Speaker 2 (24:30):
I don't remember.
I've been a shocker lady A lotof.
Of course she does, but thatlady really helped me and I had
like a really tender moment withmyself, which I don't have that
often, and so I think, anyways,I'm just saying, like the, your
body does know what happened toyou, even if you you forgot so
what you're talking about inthose experiences when you
(24:53):
didn't even have to have words,but like weeping or sound, or
someone was like oh, there'sthis color, even if it was total
placebo which I don't think itwas placebo when I was wailing
like a psychopath on Bridget'stable.
Well, Bridget, thanks Bridgetbut all it's like you didn't
even have to have these directwords of what made you feel seen
and important and understood.
(25:14):
And so if you're listening andyou're like cool throat chakra,
what am I supposed to do with it?
Well, first and this I lovethis like listening to music in
your car and singing, like thatvibration, like I listened in
its entirety to the sound ofmusic soundtrack last night on
my drive home from the beach.
Of course you did Sang everysong and it just felt so good,
(25:37):
therapeutic, like I didn't haveto go tell people about my
problems yesterday or whatever,like you literally just get to
use your voice and it doesn'thave to be in this overshary,
whatever way.
And then you have to be really,if you're connecting with a
partner, you have to know whatyour need is when you're
connecting with them.
Meaning and we'll use a reallybenign example, danielle and
(25:58):
Will, she's probably like thiscrazy thing happened at work and
you're my partner and I loveyou.
Tell me what you think.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
Done.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
So she probably y'all probably already have that
understanding With Bobby todayin the house.
Hey, I have this dream and Ijust want to say it out loud.
And he got it 90% you know, Um.
So I have to be very clear, andit makes it a lot easier if
your partner's very clear onwhat they need, which is very
tricky because if, if they'relashing out at you and you're
(26:28):
like, but what do you need, I amavailable, and they're like
throwing darts or spaghetti orwhatever, Whatever the saying is
, we don't know.
And you're like that justdoesn't make a lot of sense.
That's their work, not yours.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Well, and I would say too, if you're in a
relationship with someone who'skind of a fixer and you know
that, like you, even in afriendship, I would say
sacrificial advice, tell them upfront.
Hey, I just want you to hear me, can you just listen?
Kind of like what you did withthe.
I just want to share this dreamwith you.
I'm not saying this is what weshould do with the house, it's
(27:03):
just a dream that it was what Iwas saying, but I didn't say
this otherwise you could justtype it into like a little diary
or something.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
You want him to hear it because you want it in some
way to become a reality.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
So yeah, so what I realized was and this is part of
my stuff I can be incrediblydirect, and that's when I'm a
poor listener.
I'm a great listener in myoffice.
I think I'm a great listener asa friend.
The closer the relationship istypically my mother and my
husband I get really direct.
(27:33):
I can be kind of bulldozer andI think that that was hard for
Bobby.
So I'd be like, well, and I'vedone this and this.
I can't believe.
I'm admitting it.
He's come home and I'm like, um, there is a builder coming over
for to discuss what plans wewant for the house, and he's
like okie dokie.
(27:54):
I made him feel super small,really unsafe.
He's very logical, very frugaland in my like, we're going to
have a dream house.
It really scared him.
So it hit me today that I'venever just said it of like, what
do I want?
And it doesn't really mattertoday how we get there, but will
you just listen to what I wantinstead of me bulldozing you?
Speaker 1 (28:14):
Bro, I literally one of the only big toasts that
happened at my wedding was froma creative director that worked
for me for a long time and he'samazing, he's still a friend.
He stood up and gave a toastand said Laura is the type of
person that will run right overyou, bulldoze you, Thank you,
(28:35):
and you will be better for it.
And I was like I wanted tothrow up.
It felt so gross because I waslike, oh God, and I what you
said about the closer therelationship, so the more trust
I feel like is there, the moredirect I can be.
That doesn't mean that's whatthey want, Correct.
It doesn't even mean that'swhat they need.
(28:56):
It's just what I feel mostcomfortable doing.
Clay and Shane get the worst,most direct version of me for
sure.
Clay will call me and just belike so pumped about an idea and
I'll be like, if you don't havethis, this, this, this and this
done, you're getting screwed.
It's not going to work.
He just threw a show and I wasadamantly opposed.
I'm like you, event planning isa career, Clay, you do not
(29:20):
event plan.
Here's all the reasons youshouldn't do it and you're going
to lose your ass.
And he, freaking, he was likethank you for your feedback.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
I'm still doing it and he did it.
I mean because your fearsbulldozed him and so my whatever
the reason is, and we don't,it's not important about this
whole house thing.
I was disconnecting from myspouse in an attempt to connect
over and over and over again,and I was so overly vocal about
(29:49):
something and I couldn't bringmyself to see the discomfort
because I was like, why wouldyou be uncomfortable about
building my perfect southernliving dream home?
just write me a check you won'teven have to do anything, you
know um, and then when I likesoftened it and was like will
you just listen, even if youhate my idea, just zip it.
And we did.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
Well, I think what we know is I still have a lot of
work to do on listening.
I think that's what I learned.
Glad you got a takeaway.
This feels like a therapy.
Is this an intervention for me?
Actually, I came up with thisdamn subject.
What an asshole.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
See your body kept the score and was like I need
Claire and Will to sit andlisten to me.
So, to me, morals of today'sstory listening and knowing what
you need is an incrediblyimportant part of connecting
with anyone that you're close to.
Understanding what your partnerneeds and meaning like do they
even know what they need?
(30:47):
And if they don't know whatthey need, that's their work and
you can like offer that to them.
Um, we can have an overlyactive throat chakra and we can
have an under active throatchakra, and that's for you to go
discover.
Did something happen to mewhere I had to overuse my voice,
or did I learn to become small?
(31:07):
In what areas?
So all of this is truly goingback to?
Speaker 1 (31:12):
can I sit still and be quiet and know what I need,
and some things that you saidthat I feel like are really
important to reiterate is, ifyou're the person who is like me
and you struggle because youreally want to fix everything
for everyone, that it makes alot of sense to remember.
My feet are on the ground.
I'm here in this moment withthis person, I'm holding space
for them and it's not my job tofix it unless they ask me for
(31:35):
help.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
I'm realizing this through this whole episode, that
my eyes wander like crazy,because yeah, because normally
we're not talking about thisduring the show, so it's okay
that my eyes wander and we'reoutside, so like neighbors are
coming by and there's a fire.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
Will is literally waved at every person.
They're wading at me.
He is the actual president ofthis neighborhood.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
Out of like the seven people and even the FedEx guy.
I can tell you five of theirnames, At least that FedEx guy
and I talk all the time.
What a listener he comes up tothe porch and we talk about
stuff.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
What a guy porch.
And we talk about stuff.
What a guy.
And also, can we just talkabout this nice porch that was
built by the one and only?
Speaker 3 (32:11):
Will Well, I built the furniture and finished it,
but yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
I mean, all right, y'all Happy New Year.
Thank you for being with us.
Hey, thank you guys forlistening.
We love having you here.
We're so happy to be back forseason two.
Please give us a review, shareus with your friends, and if you
ever want to reach out and youhave a topic you want us to
cover or something that you'rejust wondering about, let us
know.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
Before you Cut Bangs is hosted by Claire Fehrman and
Laura Quick and produced by me,Will Ockamy the best.
Welcome to, before you Cut Bangs.
I'm Laura Quick and I'm ClaireFehrman.
I am a professional storytellerand I'm currently working on my
first book.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
I have worked in mental health for many years in
lots of capacities and this is areally important time to tell
you our big disclaimer this isnot therapy.
We are not your therapists orcoaches or anything like that.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Yeah, I mean you shouldn't really trust us very
much at all, unless you want toand it turns out well, then you
can trust us, that's great.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
I've got a question.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Yeah, let's get to it .
Praise the Lord.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
If you had to listen to one album, if you could only
listen to that album for therest of your life you're stuck
with that one album what wouldit be?
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Can it be two?
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Well, that'd be cheating, but sure.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Simon and Garfunkel, wednesday morning 3 am.
Grateful Dead.
American Beauty Okay.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
I am stuck.
Which out who's that by?
Yeah, laura Quick, I'm stuckwhich out who's that by?
yeah, laura quick, I'm stuck theanswer was Clayton oh, yeah,
yeah, yeah his new EP out now onall streaming platforms, called
shitty, which he literally didon purpose, because he's like I
(01:22):
just want to look back at thisand be like.
In case I think it's shitty ina year or two years I'll be like
yeah, so what?
Because his last song on thatalbum is called Shitty Song.
He wrote it for a girl.
They went through a breakup andthe girl he was dating her
boyfriend wrote a really shittysong and released it and it went
pretty big about her and so hewrote a song in response called
(01:45):
shitty song.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
So Alanis Morissette?
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Yeah, he's very 1990s for the 2003, kid he is.
Yeah, obviously my favoritealbum on repeat would be
anything by Clayton or Coldplay.
I mean, I got a lot of thatnostalgic parachutes parachutes
Like how can you be mad at thatalbum?
It's still good.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Most people that aren't really into Coldplay much
like that album it's what Ihear from people.
The Beatles the White Album.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
It's a good one.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
So many songs.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
It kind of flows, that's a good one.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
I haven't heard that album in a while.
I remember getting that forChristmas actually it's the
first album not that I purchased, but that I was wearing out to
the point where Reed was like Ithink you need to take a break
because you're going to hatethat record if you continue this
.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
But that didn't happen.
That's how I do.
That's called ADHD.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
That's what we do.
I'm listening now.
I'm listening.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
That's perfect, because today we're talking
about A listening and Bappropriately and be
appropriately using your voice.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
I think is how I would say that, yeah, I think
one of the things, one we'relaunching into a brand new year
so it's 2025 now which isexciting.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Y'all have all joined Planet Fitness and are on a
Whole30 or Keto.
We know, we see you.
We know what you've done, wesee you.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Or maybe you haven't, and that's totally cool too.
But at the end of the day it'sa new year and we get to do
things differently than maybewe've done them before.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
And I should point out that this is another outside
on the front porch episode, andso there's like a fire.
You may hear there's alawnmower, a blower or something
going.
So it's just you know.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
You hear some nature tap, tap, tap with my
fingernails.
Okay, but truly I think one ofthe big overarching themes is
how do you listen and not betempted to fix Claire?
Speaker 2 (03:31):
we had this big movement about using your voice,
speak your truth, which I thinkis hard for people and we can
touch on that if we get to it.
But to me, what is moredifficult than speaking truth or
what I've observed working withpeople, is listening to
somebody else's, because it canbe so uncomfortable and
(03:53):
immediately if someone's tellingus and I don't even mean in
Will's biggest nightmareconfrontation, I just mean
something distressing, sad, hard, whatever it is, typically our
nervous system responds tightenup, rapid heart rate, shortness
of breath and we're eitherprepared to respond and fix like
you're asking, let me tell youall the solutions or to defend
(04:18):
and all that is is our way toself-soothe and you know what
happens to that person talking,what they feel, so disconnected.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
I think I'm gonna speak for myself like one of the
things that I know is astruggle and has required a ton
and the thing that changed mebecause I do think there's some
things that happen in our livesthat convince us listening is
actually the nicest, kindestthing we can do for someone else
, especially when they're givingyou a hard part of their story
(04:50):
or something really traumaticthat happened to them.
Group therapy changed thetrajectory of my life because in
group, a great therapist willnot let you make somebody feel
like, won't let you sootheyourself in that moment moment
which I think what Claire'ssaying is a lot of times like
somebody shares something withyou and you go, oh man, that is
(05:13):
terrible, or how dare they, orwhatever it is, whatever the
response is, and instead that'slike in group, you're allowed to
say I resonate with that yeah,you tell how you relate yeah, I
relate to that in blank, but Ithink that it taught me a lot,
and so I have had to teachmyself how to say what do you
(05:35):
need from me in this moment, andgive people an opportunity to
say, hey, I need advice or Ijust need you to listen, because
, man, I will, will.
I would love to build you a fivepoint plan.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
So what you're talking about.
And there's this newer bookcalled secure love.
I highly, highly, highlyrecommend it.
Whether you're married, dating,single, it doesn't matter.
Parent not parent, secure loveis amazing.
Talking about this, and one ofthe first things the author
Julie talks about is, um, whenwe can really really listen and
(06:07):
hear someone, we also have toknow what our need is, and so if
you're in some kind ofrelationship and that person
cannot identify what they needto feel connected to, you're
kind of fucked.
Sorry, thanks, that hits.
So I'll throw me and Bobbyright under the bus.
So we went to couples therapyrecently and I was really angry
(06:31):
about some things, and I amusually the person in couples
therapy that's like you go ahead, let me sit here and listen,
but I was pissed and so I justlike go for it.
And the therapist who's atherapist who sees therapists,
like that's very key um for me.
Um, she's like we're just gonnago back to basics, bobby, what
(06:53):
I want you to look at Claire andtell her what she said.
And he looks at her and is likesounds like she has a lot of
high expectations and thattherapist was.
Well, I didn't hear her saythat at all.
Can you look at Claire andrepeat back what you heard her
say?
He's still looking at her andshe's like no, I didn't hear her
say that.
Can you look at Claire?
And poor Bobby man, he's souncomfortable and he's getting
(07:17):
red with that Scottish skin andI'm like and I really did feel
bad in the moment, I wanted tocheat so bad and be like just
think about it, man, what I justsaid and that precious
therapist said what you're doingis so human.
We get so worried about whatour loved one is trying to say
(07:37):
that we start working reallyhard and we cannot hear her.
And he's like you're right, Ididn't listen at all and like
but it was like such freedom forhim to be told like you were so
scared, you were so worriedthat you just couldn't do it and
it was great.
Well, you want to get it right?
Speaker 1 (07:55):
I think I did.
Obviously you did get it rightwhen he had a turn.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
She's like Claire.
What did you hear him say?
Speaker 1 (08:06):
And I was like well, actually I'll verbatim give it
back to you right now he saidblanking, blanking, blanking.
I will win.
And I think, like mirroring issomething that I do a lot and
work like.
Obviously I have clients whoare dumping like oh my gosh,
here's all the things, and somirroring back to people is
something I do for a day-to-daypart of my job.
But that's not necessarily whata person, a friend, who comes
(08:27):
to you and they tell you oh mygod, here's this heavy thing
that just happened, whether it'slike something with their kids
or something in theirrelationship or a deep loss or
whatever and I'm just likegeared to be a fixer.
I want to fix it for you, Iwant to make it better, and so
it's why Because, claire, itmakes me feel valuable and
(08:49):
listening makes me feel stupid.
I mean, it's like not reallystupid, but I think it makes me
feel a little helpless.
Are you a fixer?
Speaker 3 (08:58):
No, I was gonna say, because a lot of times like no
look within my you know coregroup or whatever, but no,
because a lot of times, like now, look within my you know core
group or whatever, but no,because a lot of times like
that's none of my business,that's so beautiful.
It is Well.
Also.
It makes me feel selfish,though.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Say more about that.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
Well, okay, I'm a bad listener.
For one Right, which is kind ofdifferent than what we were
just saying Go ahead.
But that is based purely on my,like, chemical makeup.
It's not trying to be selfishor not caring or whatever, it's
just that it's like reading abook.
I can, you know, read a chapterand have no idea what I read,
even though I'm the one readingit, because my brain can be
thinking about something else.
(09:35):
And that's the same thing inconversation sometimes with
people where I realize, like oh,you've left the building.
Yeah, Like I don't know whatthey just said.
I was trying Whatever, so thatI'm just inherently a bad
listener, but also it's thatwhole thing of like other people
.
It's why I could not care anyless about any like celebrity
couple or any couple that is notactually that I'm involved with
(09:57):
like talking to all the time,because I don't.
Why do I need that?
Why do I need that drama?
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Well, I don't, why do I need that?
Why do I need that drama?
Well, and I think you've just Iwrote down something too
earlier when we were kind oftalking about this is like tier
one friends, like how you listento your tier one friends and
how you listen to a tier two ortier three.
To me they're different,because if I call you and I say
here's what just happened, youdon't really have to ask me.
Are you asking me?
For if I called you, it'sbecause I'm freaking out and I
(10:28):
need you.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
I still ask you that you do you do she's so kind
about that I bet even like tiertwo, tier three friends I would
be like oh yeah, tell me, I'lltry to give them advice on
something relationship-wise orwhatever.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
I'm just talking about people that I'm not really
Well like.
Yeah, but hopefully thosepeople aren't trauma bombing you
right in public.
But I do think, like I findmyself I never try to give
advice to the cashier.
I don't even though I have theface, and the cashier is like do
you know what just happened tome and my son?
We haven't talked in threeyears and I don't even know if
he's coming for Christmas thisyear.
Like I have that face.
People tell me those things andI'm always like that sounds
(11:10):
really hard.
How much is it, you know?
Speaker 2 (11:12):
like is there a coupon for that?
So y'all are talking about twovery different reasons of not
listening Bobby's more on youlike he'll kind of drift away
into something else, and I seeit in his eyes and that doesn't
bother me.
I mean it can be annoying to behonest, but it's, it doesn't
(11:32):
feel malicious.
I'm always like come on back,we got this, you know.
And then you're talking about asense of urgency your
discomfort is distressing to me.
So here's 27 things in order,with an appendix to make it
better.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Five point plan I've actually created a PowerPoint
presentation that I would loveto go through as you were
talking.
It's in my brain, but I'llproject it.
I think it's the same thing forme, like I'll and it's.
I am an active listener.
I listen to, really hear people, but it's mostly because of the
way my brain works and as astrategist.
(12:08):
So I'm thinking about astrategy, but I am really
listening because this is howI'm programmed at work.
So I'm always thinking abouthow to solve problems because
it's what I get paid to do, butthat's not necessarily great for
friends who don't want me tofix their shit okay, but like
with danielle, if she's tellingme a work thing like oh listen
to this terrible thing, whateverI am thinking about solutions
(12:29):
for it, as she's talking to me,should I not be doing that?
Speaker 2 (12:33):
Does she want a solution?
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Well, I guess that's why she's telling me about it,
right?
Speaker 2 (12:37):
That's.
Yeah, that's probably the oneIn like basic psychotherapy, if
you just tell your story and thepuzzle pieces fit together, we
typically have relief ofsymptomology.
Okay, just sharing that's evenwithout a therapist saying
here's some strategy, here'smaybe you should talk to a
psychiatrist.
That's.
Even before that, we typicallyfind some amount of like a
(12:59):
reduction of symptoms.
Because I said it out loud, Isaw him.
Yeah, and I'm like, oh, and I'mconnecting the good dots, Like a
good therapist is just likeshine a light here, shine a
light here, You're the expert,meaning the client, Boom.
So I would see what Daniel'sresponse is.
Is next time she tells yousomething?
(13:19):
If she'd be like do you have afever?
If you were like do you want meto just listen or do you want
some ideas?
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Okay, and we don't have.
It's nothing weird.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
I mean usually it is just a discussion.
I think she always is like whatshould I do about this or
whatever?
Didn't hear anything weird.
Nothing weird.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
You're great, you're doing everything right and I
think, like that has been, andthat's probably my you want to
help the people you love.
I don't want you to be indistress, but most of the time
I'm soothing myself if I stepinto your story and try to fix
it for you.
Instead of asking the questionlike, do you want me to listen
(13:59):
or do you want some ideas?
Are you looking for me to help?
And my friends now it's kind ofthe thing I say, and so they'll
say no, no, I want your ideas.
Or hey, listen, put your ideahat on, I need help with this.
Or hey, I think we might haveto kill.
I have a friend, literally, whois like we're going to kill
these bitches who did this eventLike they're trying to come
(14:21):
after me.
I'm like we ride at dawn, let'sgo, you know.
So again, obviously it wouldnot actually really kill anyone.
Please know that.
But I think helping peoplestrategically is something that
people know I love doing, but Idon't want to do that for people
who don't want it.
I don't want to try and fixthings that don't actually need
(14:42):
to be fixed, because you becomeyour own solution person if you
just get to say it out loudsometimes so what both of y'all
are describing, even thoughthey're different, there's
things to do, like if you're adrifter, which I just watched
you drift away.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
I was listening, though.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
I heard you okay, I see it.
Yeah, but I can do, I canlisten to multiple things there.
I can, yeah, all right um,basically, I have to prep bobby.
We even had one this morning.
I was like, hey, I have an idea, but I don't want.
I mean, this sounds cold.
But I knew what I needed.
I knew if I shared an idea andhe told me the ways to do it
(15:18):
better or if it was wrong, thatI would become defensive and
unheard and that's reallypainful for me.
So I was like I have an ideaabout our house and that's a big
sticky point I think, probablyin a lot of marriages.
What are we going to do?
Buy, sell, build, whatever?
We had these discussions athousand times and my request
was I'm just hoping to share,like my dream with you.
(15:40):
It's just a dream.
I'm not getting a secondmortgage, I haven't hired an
architect, I've thought aboutall of those things, but I want
you to hear my dream and listen.
And he listened and he's likethat is a really good idea.
And I see him pause and he'slike how do you want to pay for
it?
And I was like nope, and I waslike just dreams, just dreams.
And he was like okay, he waslike that's a really lovely
(16:01):
dream.
I was like perfect.
So that was his discomfort.
That's how he's super, superwired.
And so to me, everybody's workin any kind of listening,
whether it's professionally, inany kind of relationship with
Laura's Uber driver, it's how doI soothe myself so this person
feels connected to.
And when I say soothe, I don'tI mean for Bobby and Will.
(16:25):
It's not like y'all are cryingbecause we're sharing something
that happened at work.
It's my mind has a tendency towander off.
Can I pay attention to my feeton the floor?
Can I focus on my partner'seyes, you know, or whatever it
is, or something she's holdingso I can stay focused?
And for you it's like quiet,quiet, quiet.
Feel my feet as well.
(16:47):
What can I focus on?
Because both of y'all have tosoothe.
It's just busyness in there.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
And I think like I'm still working on it Same.
I'm still working on how tomake sure that I'm genuinely
staying engaged and not takingaway someone's, because I do
think that's what I do when Ijump the gun to go solution Take
away somebody's pain, take awaytheir pain, which is is
(17:12):
impossible, by the way, rightcan you not help?
Speaker 3 (17:15):
you can help with their pain.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Oh my gosh, yes, but I think the like.
The premise of this is like,literally, someone hearing me
reduces symptomology withoutsolution, and I think that's the
therapeutic side, right?
Speaker 1 (17:31):
is that just letting someone be heard is actually a
big relief.
So if they're in a pressurecooker which a lot of times
that's how it feels if somethingfeels super overwhelming and
you pick up the phone and youyou phone a friend and you're
like oh my god, this thing justhappened.
Whether it's traumatic or hard,or a fight with a partner or
whatever it is, you just sayingit to someone releases some of
(17:54):
the pressure on the pressurecooker.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
Yes, so, and let's flip it to talking okay.
So, um, theoretically and thisis actually I couldn't even name
what research this is from thisis more like hippie folklore.
Seems like a stretch hippiedippy yoga.
Claire is in the building, folkstheoretically between the ages
(18:20):
of 7 to 12.
Developmentally, if you hadsomething traumatic happen to
you and I mean small trauma, big, whatever you're less likely to
um, have strength in your voice, less clear, and you can do
work and redeem all of that butor heal all of that.
So, um, but I don't mean lesslikely to use my voice, just in
(18:40):
the sense of I'm quiet and Idon't share the truth.
Sometimes people are overlyvocal.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
You're kidding.
I've never met anyone that hada trauma between the ages of 7
and 12.
Who's overly?
Speaker 2 (18:52):
vocal, so it can really go both of those ways.
What the fuck are you serious?
Are you fucking with me rightnow?
Speaker 1 (19:00):
no, I didn't realize that specific age was a thing.
Oh yeah, that a lot of thingsmake sense for me in this moment
.
Just write me a check afterthis, okay, so this here, comes
the hippie part throat chakra.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Okay, so right here, Um, and like I said earlier, we
went through this big thing oflike use your voice and be
authentic.
Well, some of y'all didn't shutthe fuck up and you're crying
on Instagram.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Okay, well, I'm not doing that, but I didn't mean
yes.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Yeah.
So what I'm saying is is we hadthis idea that all of us were
being quiet and keeping allthese things to ourselves, and
that is very true for a lot ofpeople.
And then other people swung sohard into really crazy over
vocalization or and I'm totallyguilty of this Mine isn't
necessarily.
I'm too quiet.
Sometimes I'm like you'remisunderstanding me.
All I want is to be understood.
So I'm totally guilty of this.
Mine isn't necessarily.
I'm too quiet.
(19:50):
Sometimes I'm like you'remisunderstanding me.
All I want is to be understood.
So I'm going to be loud and crymy eyes out and guess what?
Nobody's needs were met.
Okay, so with each of thesechakras, like our energy centers
, today we're talking about ourthroat.
It isn't just about talking,it's about can I listen and
(20:11):
tolerate it?
The demon against the throatchakra and I love this is lies,
and I don't think it means likecrazy banana town lies which
we've told good stories of,those particularly from Will's
history, but not him lying, hejust accommodates liars
(20:33):
sometimes.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Will knows how to find a good liar.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
It's like if I hold this and don't tell you the
whole truth right now, that's alie, so, lying, by omission, I'm
going to leave out parts ofthis.
So I'm comfortable and you'recomfortable, but really we're
both not in truth and you don'tget relief, none.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
So then you're comfortable, but really, we're
both not, and you don't getrelief, none so.
So then you?
You're still a pressure cooker,yeah, and now you also have the
guilt, or the shame that comesalong with that little tiny
mistruth you told, thinking youwere accomplishing something,
whatever that lie was convincingyou of at the time.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
And then we get to go back if we want to say when I
shared that thing with you, Ididn't say the whole truth.
I really should have added this, and usually the other person's
like what, Like, who cares?
Like you're all good but itfeels so, exposing.
So the demon is the lie whetherI'm overly vocal or a more
restrained person in my speechthere's a lie somewhere, dear
(21:31):
God, I did not realize that.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
I'm not going to go deep into this.
There's two things that came upfor me.
One, some psychotic shit thatyou've had me do over the time,
and I always ask you for thesethings.
But you know, one of the thingsthat I'll do is if Claire's
done anything, if she's got aguy or got a girl for something
I'm always like he's like well,send her my way.
I want to go check it out andalso.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Shelly, are you talking about the massage?
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Yes, I have had gongs on my literal ass because
she'll be like oh, this girl.
So I went and sat down with amassage therapist recently,
within the last 12 months,because Claire's like she's
magical and I'm like great.
So she sits you down, which notherapist has ever done, no
massage therapist has ever donefor me before.
(22:13):
She sat me down and she waslike why are you here?
And I was like you know, I justreally like I've been going
through a lot and I, you knowI'm working on this book and
like there's a lot of like stuffthat's coming up for me, some
related, some not related.
Probably all of it's related.
So I'm not related, probablyall of it's related.
And she's like great.
And then she was like well, youknow your body, your throat,
like she was just saying, butyour body is keeping the score.
(22:35):
And I said I know.
And she said, no, you don'tfucking know.
And I was like I probably don'tknow.
And then I had the weirdestfucking 55 minutes of my life.
I don't even know how.
She was sprinting around theroom dinging all the dongs and
the gongs.
There was one literally on myass.
At one point she was standingon top of me.
(22:57):
There's a lot happening.
There are bells, there arechimes Chanting, a lot of.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
She was like don't worry about the.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
Did you not laugh.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
I literally was underneath and all I could see
was her feet darting around theroom, and then, when they would
disappear completely, I would belike she's on top of me.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
I don't know what she did to me, but I start crying
so loud.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
What I was weeping.
I was weeping.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
I wish I could say it was weeping for me, but it was
like I am not even going to sayit.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
I would be crying from laughing.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
You would think that I have laughed in situations
like that, where I'm like okay,this is cuckoo, there was no
laughter.
I wish I had laughed.
I've had two massages like that.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Okay, I brought that up because it's a great story.
It's a great story One.
The body keeping the score is areal thing.
So, thinking about your throat,if you were a child who was
told you can't use your voice,then a lot of times I mean a
reoccurring dream I have is thatI'm screaming and there's
nothing coming out.
I've had that my whole, my wholelife Like.
(24:06):
I cannot remember a time whereI didn't dream that dream.
Clearly, I'm loud as fuck, sowe all know I don't have a
problem using my voice now, butthat's one thing, and so that
makes a lot of sense.
Another lady you sent me to notweird, super sweet, the lady in
Mountain Brook, what's her namethat you were like she will
help you, and then I saw colorsand she was like use your voice.
(24:28):
What does Anita say?
Speaker 2 (24:30):
I don't remember.
I've been a shocker lady A lotof.
Of course she does, but thatlady really helped me and I had
like a really tender moment withmyself, which I don't have that
often, and so I think, anyways,I'm just saying, like the, your
body does know what happened toyou, even if you you forgot so
what you're talking about inthose experiences when you
(24:53):
didn't even have to have words,but like weeping or sound, or
someone was like oh, there'sthis color, even if it was total
placebo which I don't think itwas placebo when I was wailing
like a psychopath on Bridget'stable.
Well, Bridget, thanks Bridgetbut all it's like you didn't
even have to have these directwords of what made you feel seen
and important and understood.
(25:14):
And so if you're listening andyou're like cool throat chakra,
what am I supposed to do with it?
Well, first and this I lovethis like listening to music in
your car and singing, like thatvibration, like I listened in
its entirety to the sound ofmusic soundtrack last night on
my drive home from the beach.
Of course you did Sang everysong and it just felt so good,
(25:37):
therapeutic, like I didn't haveto go tell people about my
problems yesterday or whatever,like you literally just get to
use your voice and it doesn'thave to be in this overshary,
whatever way.
And then you have to be really,if you're connecting with a
partner, you have to know whatyour need is when you're
connecting with them.
Meaning and we'll use a reallybenign example, danielle and
(25:58):
Will, she's probably like thiscrazy thing happened at work and
you're my partner and I loveyou.
Tell me what you think.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
Done.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
So she probably y'all probably already have that
understanding With Bobby todayin the house.
Hey, I have this dream and Ijust want to say it out loud.
And he got it 90% you know, Um.
So I have to be very clear, andit makes it a lot easier if
your partner's very clear onwhat they need, which is very
tricky because if, if they'relashing out at you and you're
(26:28):
like, but what do you need, I amavailable, and they're like
throwing darts or spaghetti orwhatever, Whatever the saying is
, we don't know.
And you're like that justdoesn't make a lot of sense.
That's their work, not yours.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Well, and I would say too, if you're in a
relationship with someone who'skind of a fixer and you know
that, like you, even in afriendship, I would say
sacrificial advice, tell them upfront.
Hey, I just want you to hear me, can you just listen?
Kind of like what you did withthe.
I just want to share this dreamwith you.
I'm not saying this is what weshould do with the house, it's
(27:03):
just a dream that it was what Iwas saying, but I didn't say
this otherwise you could justtype it into like a little diary
or something.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
You want him to hear it because you want it in some
way to become a reality.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
So yeah, so what I realized was and this is part of
my stuff I can be incrediblydirect, and that's when I'm a
poor listener.
I'm a great listener in myoffice.
I think I'm a great listener asa friend.
The closer the relationship istypically my mother and my
husband I get really direct.
(27:33):
I can be kind of bulldozer andI think that that was hard for
Bobby.
So I'd be like, well, and I'vedone this and this.
I can't believe.
I'm admitting it.
He's come home and I'm like, um, there is a builder coming over
for to discuss what plans wewant for the house, and he's
like okie dokie.
(27:54):
I made him feel super small,really unsafe.
He's very logical, very frugaland in my like, we're going to
have a dream house.
It really scared him.
So it hit me today that I'venever just said it of like, what
do I want?
And it doesn't really mattertoday how we get there, but will
you just listen to what I wantinstead of me bulldozing you?
Speaker 1 (28:14):
Bro, I literally one of the only big toasts that
happened at my wedding was froma creative director that worked
for me for a long time and he'samazing, he's still a friend.
He stood up and gave a toastand said Laura is the type of
person that will run right overyou, bulldoze you, Thank you,
(28:35):
and you will be better for it.
And I was like I wanted tothrow up.
It felt so gross because I waslike, oh God, and I what you
said about the closer therelationship, so the more trust
I feel like is there, the moredirect I can be.
That doesn't mean that's whatthey want, Correct.
It doesn't even mean that'swhat they need.
(28:56):
It's just what I feel mostcomfortable doing.
Clay and Shane get the worst,most direct version of me for
sure.
Clay will call me and just belike so pumped about an idea and
I'll be like, if you don't havethis, this, this, this and this
done, you're getting screwed.
It's not going to work.
He just threw a show and I wasadamantly opposed.
I'm like you, event planning isa career, Clay, you do not
(29:20):
event plan.
Here's all the reasons youshouldn't do it and you're going
to lose your ass.
And he, freaking, he was likethank you for your feedback.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
I'm still doing it and he did it.
I mean because your fearsbulldozed him and so my whatever
the reason is, and we don't,it's not important about this
whole house thing.
I was disconnecting from myspouse in an attempt to connect
over and over and over again,and I was so overly vocal about
(29:49):
something and I couldn't bringmyself to see the discomfort
because I was like, why wouldyou be uncomfortable about
building my perfect southernliving dream home?
just write me a check you won'teven have to do anything, you
know um, and then when I likesoftened it and was like will
you just listen, even if youhate my idea, just zip it.
And we did.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
Well, I think what we know is I still have a lot of
work to do on listening.
I think that's what I learned.
Glad you got a takeaway.
This feels like a therapy.
Is this an intervention for me?
Actually, I came up with thisdamn subject.
What an asshole.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
See your body kept the score and was like I need
Claire and Will to sit andlisten to me.
So, to me, morals of today'sstory listening and knowing what
you need is an incrediblyimportant part of connecting
with anyone that you're close to.
Understanding what your partnerneeds and meaning like do they
even know what they need?
(30:47):
And if they don't know whatthey need, that's their work and
you can like offer that to them.
Um, we can have an overlyactive throat chakra and we can
have an under active throatchakra, and that's for you to go
discover.
Did something happen to mewhere I had to overuse my voice,
or did I learn to become small?
(31:07):
In what areas?
So all of this is truly goingback to?
Speaker 1 (31:12):
can I sit still and be quiet and know what I need,
and some things that you saidthat I feel like are really
important to reiterate is, ifyou're the person who is like me
and you struggle because youreally want to fix everything
for everyone, that it makes alot of sense to remember.
My feet are on the ground.
I'm here in this moment withthis person, I'm holding space
for them and it's not my job tofix it unless they ask me for
(31:35):
help.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
I'm realizing this through this whole episode, that
my eyes wander like crazy,because yeah, because normally
we're not talking about thisduring the show, so it's okay
that my eyes wander and we'reoutside, so like neighbors are
coming by and there's a fire.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
Will is literally waved at every person.
They're wading at me.
He is the actual president ofthis neighborhood.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
Out of like the seven people and even the FedEx guy.
I can tell you five of theirnames, At least that FedEx guy
and I talk all the time.
What a listener he comes up tothe porch and we talk about
stuff.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
What a guy porch.
And we talk about stuff.
What a guy.
And also, can we just talkabout this nice porch that was
built by the one and only?
Speaker 3 (32:11):
Will Well, I built the furniture and finished it,
but yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
I mean, all right, y'all Happy New Year.
Thank you for being with us.
Hey, thank you guys forlistening.
We love having you here.
We're so happy to be back forseason two.
Please give us a review, shareus with your friends, and if you
ever want to reach out and youhave a topic you want us to
cover or something that you'rejust wondering about, let us
know.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
Before you Cut Bangs is hosted by Claire Fehrman and
Laura Quick and produced by me,Will Ockamy the best.
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