January 31, 2025 • 29 mins
Ever look at someone and think, Wow, they really have it all figured out? Yeah… us neither. But a listener wrote in and asked about confidence—where it comes from, how to get it, and whether we just wake up feeling like we run the world (spoiler: we don’t).
In this episode, we’re peeling back the layers of confidence—how it’s less about knowing everything and more about surviving discomfort over and over again. We talk about imposter syndrome, faking it (until one day you’re not), and the hard truth that confidence isn’t something you get—it’s something you build. Sometimes that means failing. Sometimes it just means doing something terrifying and pretending you’re fine while you do it.
So before you make any bold moves (like, say… cutting bangs), tune in for a real talk on what confidence actually takes—and why it’s totally worth the discomfort.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to, before you Cut Bangs.
I'm Laura Quick and I'm ClaireFehrman.
I am a professional storytellerand I'm currently working on my
first book.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
I have worked in mental health for many years in
lots of capacities and this is areally important time to tell
you our big disclaimer this isnot therapy.
We are not your therapists orcoaches or anything like that.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Yeah, I mean you shouldn't really trust us very
much at all.
Unless you want to and it turnsout well, then you can trust us
.
That's great.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Okay.
Well, we're going to start.
What is the?
Speaker 1 (00:43):
It's going good.
You're doing great.
Good start.
All right, you're killing it.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
That's funny that this episode is on confidence
and y'all are being jerks aboutit.
I was pausing to see how Iwanted to word it, but I'll just
say it off the cuff.
What is something that you havedone publicly that has gone
really poorly?
It could be any age adult age,adult, childhood, whatever I
have so many oh, I thought youmight have what?
Speaker 1 (01:10):
no, I have so many failures, epic failures.
I mean I've already told y'allthe the skirt and the neon
highlighter thong.
I mean that was my debut inBirmingham walking around a
restaurant that was opening yeah.
I was pretty tragic that onereally stands out as like a
moment to be like mortified byforever.
(01:31):
I don't feel shame, but I dofeel like a ick when I think of
it, like didn't even feel thatbreeze on your ass, dark time.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
I hate it for you that happened to me once at a
party with the skirt, but that'snot even the worst thing that's
ever I've ever done.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Oh, oh, I've got way, I mean, some things that I
wouldn't even say on here, thatare just like so mortifying.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Well, yeah, well, so because of my job, half of my
day is public yeah like and Ilearn like we're in a time over
the last whatever I mean forever, there's always is a thing
where times change and somethings that are acceptable
become unacceptable totally.
I learned that generallytalking into a microphone and
(02:13):
where the person I'minterviewing says oh you can't
say that.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
You can't call me that and and you're, and, you're
like, and you're like livenormally, oh yeah always, I mean
, except for this, like that,yeah, um, anyway.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
So I I say things that, uh, I thought were the
correct things to say and findout they're not, and I think of
it as a learning lesson foreveryone, for all the listeners.
I'm just out there as ascapegoat and uh yeah I will say
that is.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Yeah, I.
I did say something verypolitically incorrect once in a
meeting and just wish I couldroll the tape back.
Sure Couldn't, and thepotential client passed,
obviously, but also corrected mein a follow-up the client's
(03:01):
deceased Follow-up email.
I think they're probably stillalive okay, but they declined.
They passed on the service theypassed on me yeah, it was a no
solid.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
I'm looking for a specific time where you did
something stupid that you cansay both of you y'all are giving
vague scenarios okay, well, uh,I had someone on the show and
this was a very long time ago,12 years ago probably of mixed
race and I said I know what yousaid.
Yeah, I didn't know, so I saidsomething about.
(03:35):
I've always thought that.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Whatever, it was a compliment.
It was a compliment, it wassupposed to be a compliment.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
That's how you meant it.
Yes, your intention was.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
I thought some of the most beautiful people I've ever
met of either race were mulatto.
And you can't say that.
And they immediately.
I didn't know At the time thatwas a phrase that had been, I'd
heard it a thousand times Forsure.
100%, not just my racist uncle,but just from like everybody
yes uh.
And they quickly said like ohuh, you know, we don't, we don't
(04:10):
say that.
And I was like we don't, wedon't say that, what?
do we say and so, yeah, it turnsout.
So I think mulatto is uh likemeans mule, which is you know,
mule is like oh, a mix of ahorse and a donkey.
A horse and a donkey andthey're like dumb and the whole,
like it's a whole yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
But you didn't mean it that way.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
No, I did not mean it that way at all.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Out of anyone in this group.
I'm sorry that happened.
I know same.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
That sounds like something that could happen to
me at any moment, but and Icould be that's how it was
explained to me of like no, youknow what that means, actually,
and I was like no, I don't tellme I want, I would like to give
you something specific and Iwould love to tell y'all like oh
, it never happens to me, or hasit happened?
Speaker 1 (04:50):
I think it happens so often it's hard for me to pick
yeah to pick, because I at leastonce a week, I'm like wow, that
was stupid, you shouldn't havesaid that I mean I think there's
a difference in likeembarrassment and falsely
confident, whatever we'll get toit.
But I said my dream recently ina client meeting and immediately
was like I shouldn't have saidthat.
(05:12):
What did you say?
I was talking about creativemasturbation and how some people
are just trying to have a wetdream.
What kind of business meetingwas this?
I?
I don't want to talk about it.
It was actually.
Take that out, never don't putthat in.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Stay in miss.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
No Wet dream in a meeting.
No, I listen.
I said it as this, like I wastrying to make a point about how
, in the business that I'm infrom a creative agency
standpoint, a lot of times whenpeople are hiring creative
agencies, the creative agencyjust wants to be so creative and
it becomes like creativemasturbation and is never, ever
(05:50):
tied to your revenue.
Now I would like for y'all toknow that I won't be using that
anymore.
Sure, okay, the client loved it.
They did hire us.
They were like, yes, this is aproblem, this is the mouth I'm
looking for.
Oh Jesus, that client loved it.
They did hire us.
They were like, yes, this is aproblem, we're mouth I'm looking
for.
Oh Jesus, that's so gross.
But yeah, I'm no.
(06:11):
I mean like, yeah, you know, Ido have a good, I'd have a trash
mouth, all right.
Anyways, if you could take allthat out, actually, and if you
could take all that, outactually, and we definitely I
don't know, it's pretty good,Pretty good Um.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
I have several um, but this one isn't like a
jarring story.
But when you're getting yourmaster's in therapy or
counseling, you have to filmyourself in the therapy session,
like as the therapist.
It is excruciating and I wouldsay Most therapy students, if
(06:50):
you're going in your 20s which alot of people are you have this
idea or ideal that you'll likefix people and give advice and
solve their problems, and thenschool hammers that out of you.
So I'm I like had this hugelatte and it was in the video,
video and I'd obviously had somuch of it and I was so intense
and like the guy, like he couldsee how intense I was and it
(07:14):
made him really nervous and I'mlike on the edge of my seat and
like I talked too much and Italked too fast and I never saw
him again obviously and then Ihad to play that video in the
class and like I pumped myselfup, I was like you know what?
It's always in your mind, it'salways worse, it's not that bad.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Yeah, it's probably great.
Someone's been worse.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
There's in my head like the chicken fucking
situation you know it was theworst in the class and that's
never happened to me.
Like you know, not will, butlike if you go to the
gynecologist and you're nervous,you're like god knows what
they've seen.
Like right, you pump yourselfup, but oh, but if I'm nervous,
(07:58):
I'm like this is nothing forthem okay they've heard worse,
they've seen worse, it'sdefinitely gonna be, maybe the
gynecologist was too extreme anexample.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
But like I think about, that like, yeah, with
most doctors the stuff they haveto see, but especially so I
convinced myself that there wasgonna be worse.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
I'm making it out worse and like the whole class
was like like everyonephysically like withdrew.
And then I was like I recognizethat I was talking a lot and
too fast and whatever.
And the teacher I thought shewould like placate me even a
little bit and she's like I'mglad you're aware of where
you've gone wrong and I was likeit was excruciating and I've
(08:43):
done far more embarrassingthings, but that was one where I
was just like crumbling inside.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
I've had.
Yeah, I've had those moments.
I feel like that one whenyou're on display for other
people it's even worse.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
I could do it now and be like did you see what I just
did?
Speaker 1 (09:00):
I think that y'all can see the brilliance of my
performance in this.
This is some Oscar shit, allright.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
I'm excited to find out what we're talking about
today.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
A listener suggested a conversation on confidence,
like how to have it when youhave it, because she said we
have it, which is really niceand somewhat true, but I had to
really work for it.
A lot of it was like blindconfidence or a lot of fear, and
I had a therapist tell meyesterday she's like, wow, you
(09:33):
still run out of a lot of fear.
And I was like that's quiteenough of you.
So we're going to talk aboutconfidence what it is, what it
isn't and how to get more of itso you can be just like Will.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
Oh what?
No, I'm like the king ofimposter syndrome.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Say more.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
Yeah, I just feel like I have it because things
have worked out musically andprofessionally, not that I
haven't really tried and workedreally hard to get where I am,
but still some of the stuff I'vedone is kind of one in a
million things and what I'vedone is I'll just say yes to
things if I want it, even if Ican't do it, and then I will
(10:10):
learn to do it by the time it'stime to do it.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Because you have good work ethic.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
You do Maybe.
Oh, if I care about it.
Yeah, like if normal work ethic, like returning emails and
stuff like that, like the worstwork ethic, but if I have to
like learn how to uh, you know,ride a unicycle, yeah, I'm gonna
do that, all the journey songs,or?
Play, yeah, journey songs orwhatever.
Like I, I will say yes, I cando that, which is gangster, by
(10:34):
the way that you were able thatreally did happen and I hate
that I wasn't there.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
I think that's a really interesting perspective,
because I always tell people fora long time, especially women,
one of the things that we'resaying is like you just fake it
till you make it.
You know, you have to pretendyour way into things, and I do
agree with that.
I think sometimes we forget towake up and realize we've become
really good at something,though.
So something you used to fake,you were faking your way into it
(11:01):
.
One day you need to wake up andbe like oh, like, I'm an expert
at the things I used to say Iwas faking.
You know, because 10 years ago,15 years ago, when I might have
been like, yes, I am starting amagazine or whatever, I'm a
therapist.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Yeah, exactly Hi.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
I think of it as being healthy, right Like having
a healthy, like understandingof oh man.
I'm very fortunate to be here.
How did I, oh man, like?
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Well, you always, I always tell like my staff, you
know, we have the fortunateexperience of working with a lot
of people.
Some of them are famous, some ofthem are not, some of them are
really successful and I'm alwayslike you have to show up in a
room and pretend you've beenthere before, and that will keep
you out of the weeds offangirling or making it weird
(11:49):
for them.
If you pretend you've been inthe room before, then you're
going to be fine.
And I think that sometimes,when I see young women
especially like, my big pitch towomen is occupy your space,
take up as much space as youwere created to take up, because
when you do that, you givepeople, you give other people
permission to do the same thing,and so I think I've really,
(12:12):
like, leaned into that.
I don't.
I mean, and clearly I just toldy'all 10 things that I've
showed my ass and been agoofball and said the wrong
thing and did the wrong thing orthings I definitely wish I
wouldn't have done.
So I still definitely messthings up, but I mean, I don't
think that that should stop youfrom confidently getting back up
(12:33):
and trying again.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Well, I think we're framing it only professionally,
but I think it takes a certainamount of confidence to go to a
parent-teacher conference toquit a job to ask someone on a
date to say no to a date.
To ask someone for coffeebecause you want to be their
friend I think it's even inthese like simple ways takes an
(12:56):
amount of confidence andvulnerability, because there's a
lot of it's like the same to me.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Yeah, like the confidence is, even though
you're you might have a pit inyour stomach and you might be
really nervous and you're likewhat if this goes wrong?
What if I mess this up?
What if I say the wrong thing?
What if they say no?
Um, or even when you're havingto say no to something, and then
what if they hate me foreverbecause I said no to this thing?
Like I think there's of like,yeah, I have to be confident and
(13:24):
I've got to do it anyways, eventhough it might be really scary
.
But it also feels so vulnerablebecause you don't really know
what the outcome is going to be,but you still have to do it.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Well, so like when we were kids, so nineties kids we
had a lot of experiences wherewe had to figure stuff out.
So if I didn't know wheresomething was in the world, we
had the encyclopedias.
No, yeah, okay, I was likedictionary encyclopedias.
I'll never forget they were onour built-ins in my parents den
(13:55):
and I would just spend hourslike figuring out.
Figuring out if my bicycle gota flat tire and I wasn't close
to home.
I had to find the house I wasclosest to, to knock on the door
and say can you call my mom?
Right, and I know the phonenumber.
We've taken that away in thepast.
I guess 20 years for easyaccess to information.
(14:17):
So there's, it feels likefailure, so close if I don't get
it immediately or understand itimmediately, because you can do
almost everything instantly soyeah, I know people our age and
older deal with feeling a lackof confidence or low self-esteem
or what, or imposter syndrome.
But I think it's a verydifferent lack of confidence
(14:40):
than 20 somethings now or eventeenagers now.
They haven't had to figure allthat much out with like full
thought process of like how do Ifigure this out, how do I get
this done.
They can chat, gpt anything.
They never had to figure out.
If my bike has a flat tire,well, not to mention.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
I mean I think we can put an element into.
You know, it's funny because II remember wanting to throw up.
The first time somebody told methat their birthday like that
worked for me was in the 2000s,I was like, please never say
that again.
What do you mean?
You were born in the 2000s,everyone was born in the 1900s.
And alongside of that, Iremember my sister, who's in
(15:20):
higher education, calling me andtelling me that the university
she works for was having themread this book called Snowplow
Parenting.
And so, long before ChatGPTever made it on the scene, there
was a thing that was happeningdown the pipeline.
(15:40):
Instead of your child having tofigure it out, having to
navigate conflict resolution,having to walk in, give the
presentation, have a, get a badgrade because they forgot to
finish their project, and sothey walk in with it, whatever.
No, no, no, no.
This new generation of parentssaid I'll do it for you because
I'll fix it.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Comfort, yeah.
So, um, my daughter tried outfor a musical on Sunday.
We signed up for it like theaudition a week and a half
before, and it was reading froma script, one page and singing
30 seconds of a song without anymusic.
And she's like easy done got it, it's not a problem.
(16:20):
Like well, I think we shouldprobably practice.
And you'd be like, oh, nottoday, not today.
My anxiety.
I was in theater.
I know what it takes to get ahard role very difficult and
these little children are likestars.
This is not for like the school,this is like for the community.
And I'm I've just read all thisstuff on basically exactly what
(16:41):
you're saying like remove theobstacles.
And I'm like, look, I can offerto her once a day for me to
practice with her, and she canaccept or decline.
And I'm like, and this is goingto suck, and I knew it.
So every day, do you want toread through it?
We read through it a coupletimes and then, every day, what
do you want to sing?
I don't know.
And then she'd go play with herfriends or whatever.
(17:07):
She got a new curling iron,like a lot of that was going on.
And the day before I was like,look, it's gonna feel really bad
to get up there and not have asong.
And I was like so, really, ifyou want to just go sing happy
birthday, that's actually fine.
They're looking for a childthat feels confident.
She decides to sing tomorrowfrom annie.
Oh, oh, aggressive, got it allright.
This was adorable but, anyways,she wouldn't sing in front of me
and she's like I know this isstupid, I should be able to sing
(17:29):
for me.
I'm like all good, like tryingto normalize.
We get really nervous and thiskid is like has this like pitch
perfect voice, so I know she cando it.
She does not have theconfidence to it and, michael,
she's about to learn real quickwhat this takes.
So we she maybe sang through itonce in a whisper and um, I was
like, okay, like it's, we gottago, we have to get in the car,
(17:50):
so we go.
And um, I was not in the room,but it was only separated by a
curtain.
So I watch it and of courseshe's like making eye contact
and she's adorable.
Her script reading is perfect.
And then it gets to the songand it just like won't come out
and I'm like dying as a mom.
And they were really awesomewith her.
And they're like do some jumpingjacks shake it off?
(18:11):
You're doing great.
Um.
So she like kind of sings it,like she gets through it, and
she comes out and she looks atme, she jumps in my lap and goes
we have to get out of here.
This was the most disappointingmoment of my life and I was
like it was actually incrediblybrave and just so you know,
(18:33):
that'll be the worst and hardestaudition of your life.
Like you, it's over.
Like you did it.
Damn it if she didn't get arole in that musical.
Of course she did, and I waslike, because you made eye
contact okay, that was all um.
But so I tell her the role andshe's in the ensemble and she
like she might have a solo butlike that was the perfect role.
She's never been in a play.
She still looks at me and shegoes I didn't get a lead and I
(18:57):
was like did you think you wouldlike?
I just came out of my mouth andI was like you didn't laugh,
though did you no, I was justlike like let's have an honest
conversation, because I wantedto know like those other kids,
they got leads, probably hadlike voice lessons and like
whatever I was like, and theypracticed every day for hours
day and their moms are probablypsychotic.
But I had this fun moment as aparent that like just because
(19:21):
this kid didn't make the bestand like I wasn't nagging her,
she got to just experience somedisappointment and a win all at
the same time, because my hopeis she got a little lesson out
of that and I can guaranteeshe'll either do another musical
and really try, or she isn't,and that's fine.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
But when we try to master and control out of our
own distress, it just doesn'twork out for anybody the
discomfort thing, I think, islike you know, it would be the
thing I would love to tellmyself when I was younger is
like be uncomfortable.
And Like be uncomfortable more.
(20:01):
Don't just do things to makeyourself feel more comfortable.
Don't say the things to otherpeople, Don't you know?
Like don't avoid the thingsbecause you think you're going
to be uncomfortable.
Just go be an uncomfortable.
It's when the greatestsharpening of our life happens,
when we're able to navigate theuncomfortable situation and make
it through and go oh, we did it.
And that is how you move out ofimposter syndrome into
(20:24):
confidence is navigatingdiscomfort after discomfort
after discomfort and going, oh,I'm fine.
And actually you desensitizeyourself to the discomfort and
then you're like, oh, it's notthat big of a deal.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
So these kids are the snow plows, what you're
describing, and get to learnthat the stuff where we lack
confidence that could have beenum from the parenting we
received, like whatever that maybe.
So it can come from childhood,can come from birth order, can
come from just like who you wereborn with.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Like your personality .
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Yeah, uh, what sort I'm looking for.
You're not demeanor.
What are you born with?
Like um disposition.
Oh good one, just thedisposition you were born with.
So, um, if you like, if you putthis into chat gpt, it would
probably, if I had to guess umtalk about like body language
and posture and positiveself-talk, and I do think that
(21:18):
that's true for sure.
I like people to know, like,where did this come from?
Why do I feel this way and howdo I not keep recreating that
and how do I not put that on mychildren so we see that, like,
if a parent didn't do something,they'll put it on their kid,
like can you know the baseballstars?
You know that the parents arelike he's making it to he's
gonna make it to the big leagues.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
What's?
Speaker 2 (21:39):
a good one, d1 I don't know.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
D1, that's a good one , that's.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
I remember those people so like living
vicariously through our children.
That's displacing our own lackof confidence.
But so the positive self-talk.
I'm definitely not one that'swriting and lipstick on my
mirror like you go, girl.
But there is power in changingour thought process.
So if we say you know what, I'mjust not going to be this way
(22:05):
anymore, the brain's hearing notOkay.
It's not telling the brain howI'm going to be.
And so when we shift ourthoughts, it has to be this
power of like I'm scared.
So we can have the dialectic ofI'm scared and I'm able to do
this.
So it's like putting thisaction into the world and you
can say it out loud, you can sayit to yourself, you can tell
your partner, your wife, yourhusband, your best friend, your
(22:27):
dog, whoever, like this is whatI'm going to do.
And when we start with thatlanguage, we start to like,
stand a little taller and feel alittle bit more solid.
Does that make sense?
Like, instead of saying whatI'm not going to do, yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Well affirmations.
I challenge people on this allthe time, because anytime I'm in
a workshop with somebody andI'm like what you know, like I
want you to be speaking theright language over yourself, a
lot of times what will happen iswe are programmed to say the
not statement Um, I'm not gonna,I'm not going to skip exercise
anymore.
Instead of just saying I amgoing to exercise 30, I'm going
(23:00):
to move my body 30 minutes a day.
That is an affirmation thatcalls you into a positive state
of being and your brain willonly pick up on the negative
word.
So you have to make sure youdon't have negative words, you
know.
The other thing that I wouldsay to people too is your
environment really matters.
It will change you.
When you talk about disposition,like you're born into a family
(23:21):
and you can't control whereyou're born into, but when we're
old enough, when we're adultseven when you're getting into
college and you're older thanthat and your work environments,
you can control who you aresitting closest to.
Who are you allowing?
If your confidence is shaky andyou're an adult, you need to
take a look at the people thatyou're letting speak into your
(23:41):
life, because it really freakingmatters.
So if the people are like, well, you're just not good at that,
like that's okay, but you'relike trying to.
Let's say, you're trying to bea writer, and they're like, well
, you don't, you've neverwritten anywhere.
And it's like, well, you needto get up and find somewhere
else to sit and go hang out witha bunch of writers who will
encourage you and remind youwhen they had never published
(24:03):
anything.
And then they'll say the nicethings to you and encourage you
the way they probably wish theywould have been encouraged.
But mean people can really messup your confidence and I think
sometimes when we see adults whoare deeper into their life,
it's normally because there'ssomeone or some narrative
they're believing inside theirhead that says you should stay
(24:24):
small.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Well and mean is different than a challenger.
So, like that therapistyesterday who said to me I have
a lot of fear based thinking,that wasn't me and that was
accurate and I feel bondedenough to her for her to be able
to say things like you arerunning out of a lot of fear and
I can like sit with that andmove from there.
I have a will question.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
So, besides the time you were like eight and went on
the radio or whatever it waswhen this became your job, were
you scared to like go on a liveradio?
Speaker 3 (24:49):
show.
Oh no, I was really excitedtalk about.
That's good excited, but I'llsay this, even like I did some
radio spots over the years whereI'd be like, oh okay, I would
go do something on like thesupport station in town or
whatever, I'd fill in for peoplehere and there, just because I
had some experience, and eventhen I'd never had like a nerve
(25:10):
thing.
I had excitement but not nerves.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
So my little friend Amanda, who I talk about a lot,
she says sometimes excitementand fear feel like the same
thing and you have to decidewhich one it is.
Because they get so confused,because sometimes it just is
like I'm so excited about it andlike being able to lean into
that and shift, that you're sobrave.
But I guess if people ask nowif I'm ever scared to do therapy
(25:35):
, like no, I don't even thinkabout it.
But I once was.
But what is something that?
Speaker 1 (25:40):
scares you singing in front of people, yeah, and
that's not because you can't doit, because you absolutely can
do that and you're very good atit.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
But like it scares you because why?
Like I don't even have athought with it, like my whole
body starts shaking.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
But you don't do it all the time, right?
Yeah, so it's scarier when youdon't do something all the time.
It's the same thing for me.
If somebody asks me to come andtalk to a big group of people
no problem, not nervous at allI'm like, well, it'll be great
If you ask me to come and talkto five people.
I'm like, oh, because what'sthe difference?
Well, one of them feels reallyeasy and comfortable and natural
(26:20):
and like I'm OK with it.
It's just I've done it enoughwhere I don't feel whatever.
But that smaller, more intimategroup, it feels like there
could be a lot of judgmentbecause one of them I have to
look you in the face and there'sonly five of you and the other
one, y'all are just all like abig sea of people.
Yeah, no big deal yeah, that'sright.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
It's like I always compared that, because that's
the exact same way for me.
I'd rather talk talk to 5,000people than to five.
Yes, like it doesn't bother meat all to walk out and talk to
5,000 people.
I can do it all day, but it'slike skydiving, is not.
Your brain doesn't think you'regoing to hit the ground because
the ground's not coming at you,whereas bungee jumping, your
brain thinks you're going to diebecause the ground is rushing
(26:58):
at you.
Wow wild and and it's the sameway I kind of think about the
speaking.
Like when it's five people,that's right there in front of
you and they're all staring atyou and you're staring at them
and there's eye contact, whereaswhen it's 5,000 people, it's
not relative right, it's justdifferent, it's the ground is so
far away, that's a good one.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
That is a good one.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Okay.
So confidence overview you getto take a look where it came
from.
I don't think you have to findlike this.
One time, when I was nine, thisthing happened.
It's not about that.
It's like what was themessaging I got and how do I
want to shift that or lean intoit?
Maybe you got awesome messaging.
If you're a parent taking alook at, does my fear, does my
lack of confidence get pushedonto my child, or can I let them
(27:38):
have their own life experienceand your own personal messaging
matters?
It's not that I'm not going todo this anymore.
It's what am I going to do?
I am not going to be this wayanymore.
How am I going to be?
Speaker 1 (27:51):
What else I mean?
2025 is a great year to leaninto discomfort, like when
you're, when you can avoid it,but you won't get better if you
do.
You will get better if you leaninto the discomfort.
Sit in an awkward silence, beokay saying no to someone, be
okay having a hard conversation,be okay walking in and
(28:14):
pretending like you've beenthere before, and it will feel
uncomfortable and it might evenfeel like you're actually faking
it, but that's okay, like leaninto the discomfort.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
It's not as complicated as we wish it was,
because it's like you just go doit anyways.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Do it scared, as they say Do it scared.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
Before you Cut Bangs is hosted by Laura Quick and
Claire Feerman and produced byWill Lockamade.
Follow along with us everywhere.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Please subscribe to the podcast.
Find us on Instagram.
We're constantly doing polls.
We want to know what you think,and I know that you probably
know this, but reviewing us andgiving us five stars matters
more than anything, and we areso grateful to have you here.
Welcome to, before you Cut Bangs.
I'm Laura Quick and I'm ClaireFehrman.
I am a professional storytellerand I'm currently working on my
first book.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
I have worked in mental health for many years in
lots of capacities and this is areally important time to tell
you our big disclaimer this isnot therapy.
We are not your therapists orcoaches or anything like that.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Yeah, I mean you shouldn't really trust us very
much at all.
Unless you want to and it turnsout well, then you can trust us
.
That's great.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Okay.
Well, we're going to start.
What is the?
Speaker 1 (00:43):
It's going good.
You're doing great.
Good start.
All right, you're killing it.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
That's funny that this episode is on confidence
and y'all are being jerks aboutit.
I was pausing to see how Iwanted to word it, but I'll just
say it off the cuff.
What is something that you havedone publicly that has gone
really poorly?
It could be any age adult age,adult, childhood, whatever I
have so many oh, I thought youmight have what?
Speaker 1 (01:10):
no, I have so many failures, epic failures.
I mean I've already told y'allthe the skirt and the neon
highlighter thong.
I mean that was my debut inBirmingham walking around a
restaurant that was opening yeah.
I was pretty tragic that onereally stands out as like a
moment to be like mortified byforever.
(01:31):
I don't feel shame, but I dofeel like a ick when I think of
it, like didn't even feel thatbreeze on your ass, dark time.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
I hate it for you that happened to me once at a
party with the skirt, but that'snot even the worst thing that's
ever I've ever done.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Oh, oh, I've got way, I mean, some things that I
wouldn't even say on here, thatare just like so mortifying.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Well, yeah, well, so because of my job, half of my
day is public yeah like and Ilearn like we're in a time over
the last whatever I mean forever, there's always is a thing
where times change and somethings that are acceptable
become unacceptable totally.
I learned that generallytalking into a microphone and
(02:13):
where the person I'minterviewing says oh you can't
say that.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
You can't call me that and and you're, and, you're
like, and you're like livenormally, oh yeah always, I mean
, except for this, like that,yeah, um, anyway.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
So I I say things that, uh, I thought were the
correct things to say and findout they're not, and I think of
it as a learning lesson foreveryone, for all the listeners.
I'm just out there as ascapegoat and uh yeah I will say
that is.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Yeah, I.
I did say something verypolitically incorrect once in a
meeting and just wish I couldroll the tape back.
Sure Couldn't, and thepotential client passed,
obviously, but also corrected mein a follow-up the client's
(03:01):
deceased Follow-up email.
I think they're probably stillalive okay, but they declined.
They passed on the service theypassed on me yeah, it was a no
solid.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
I'm looking for a specific time where you did
something stupid that you cansay both of you y'all are giving
vague scenarios okay, well, uh,I had someone on the show and
this was a very long time ago,12 years ago probably of mixed
race and I said I know what yousaid.
Yeah, I didn't know, so I saidsomething about.
(03:35):
I've always thought that.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Whatever, it was a compliment.
It was a compliment, it wassupposed to be a compliment.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
That's how you meant it.
Yes, your intention was.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
I thought some of the most beautiful people I've ever
met of either race were mulatto.
And you can't say that.
And they immediately.
I didn't know At the time thatwas a phrase that had been, I'd
heard it a thousand times Forsure.
100%, not just my racist uncle,but just from like everybody
yes uh.
And they quickly said like ohuh, you know, we don't, we don't
(04:10):
say that.
And I was like we don't, wedon't say that, what?
do we say and so, yeah, it turnsout.
So I think mulatto is uh likemeans mule, which is you know,
mule is like oh, a mix of ahorse and a donkey.
A horse and a donkey andthey're like dumb and the whole,
like it's a whole yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
But you didn't mean it that way.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
No, I did not mean it that way at all.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Out of anyone in this group.
I'm sorry that happened.
I know same.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
That sounds like something that could happen to
me at any moment, but and Icould be that's how it was
explained to me of like no, youknow what that means, actually,
and I was like no, I don't tellme I want, I would like to give
you something specific and Iwould love to tell y'all like oh
, it never happens to me, or hasit happened?
Speaker 1 (04:50):
I think it happens so often it's hard for me to pick
yeah to pick, because I at leastonce a week, I'm like wow, that
was stupid, you shouldn't havesaid that I mean I think there's
a difference in likeembarrassment and falsely
confident, whatever we'll get toit.
But I said my dream recently ina client meeting and immediately
was like I shouldn't have saidthat.
(05:12):
What did you say?
I was talking about creativemasturbation and how some people
are just trying to have a wetdream.
What kind of business meetingwas this?
I?
I don't want to talk about it.
It was actually.
Take that out, never don't putthat in.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Stay in miss.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
No Wet dream in a meeting.
No, I listen.
I said it as this, like I wastrying to make a point about how
, in the business that I'm infrom a creative agency
standpoint, a lot of times whenpeople are hiring creative
agencies, the creative agencyjust wants to be so creative and
it becomes like creativemasturbation and is never, ever
(05:50):
tied to your revenue.
Now I would like for y'all toknow that I won't be using that
anymore.
Sure, okay, the client loved it.
They did hire us.
They were like, yes, this is aproblem, this is the mouth I'm
looking for.
Oh Jesus, that client loved it.
They did hire us.
They were like, yes, this is aproblem, we're mouth I'm looking
for.
Oh Jesus, that's so gross.
But yeah, I'm no.
(06:11):
I mean like, yeah, you know, Ido have a good, I'd have a trash
mouth, all right.
Anyways, if you could take allthat out, actually, and if you
could take all that, outactually, and we definitely I
don't know, it's pretty good,Pretty good Um.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
I have several um, but this one isn't like a
jarring story.
But when you're getting yourmaster's in therapy or
counseling, you have to filmyourself in the therapy session,
like as the therapist.
It is excruciating and I wouldsay Most therapy students, if
(06:50):
you're going in your 20s which alot of people are you have this
idea or ideal that you'll likefix people and give advice and
solve their problems, and thenschool hammers that out of you.
So I'm I like had this hugelatte and it was in the video,
video and I'd obviously had somuch of it and I was so intense
and like the guy, like he couldsee how intense I was and it
(07:14):
made him really nervous and I'mlike on the edge of my seat and
like I talked too much and Italked too fast and I never saw
him again obviously and then Ihad to play that video in the
class and like I pumped myselfup, I was like you know what?
It's always in your mind, it'salways worse, it's not that bad.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Yeah, it's probably great.
Someone's been worse.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
There's in my head like the chicken fucking
situation you know it was theworst in the class and that's
never happened to me.
Like you know, not will, butlike if you go to the
gynecologist and you're nervous,you're like god knows what
they've seen.
Like right, you pump yourselfup, but oh, but if I'm nervous,
(07:58):
I'm like this is nothing forthem okay they've heard worse,
they've seen worse, it'sdefinitely gonna be, maybe the
gynecologist was too extreme anexample.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
But like I think about, that like, yeah, with
most doctors the stuff they haveto see, but especially so I
convinced myself that there wasgonna be worse.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
I'm making it out worse and like the whole class
was like like everyonephysically like withdrew.
And then I was like I recognizethat I was talking a lot and
too fast and whatever.
And the teacher I thought shewould like placate me even a
little bit and she's like I'mglad you're aware of where
you've gone wrong and I was likeit was excruciating and I've
(08:43):
done far more embarrassingthings, but that was one where I
was just like crumbling inside.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
I've had.
Yeah, I've had those moments.
I feel like that one whenyou're on display for other
people it's even worse.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
I could do it now and be like did you see what I just
did?
Speaker 1 (09:00):
I think that y'all can see the brilliance of my
performance in this.
This is some Oscar shit, allright.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
I'm excited to find out what we're talking about
today.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
A listener suggested a conversation on confidence,
like how to have it when youhave it, because she said we
have it, which is really niceand somewhat true, but I had to
really work for it.
A lot of it was like blindconfidence or a lot of fear, and
I had a therapist tell meyesterday she's like, wow, you
(09:33):
still run out of a lot of fear.
And I was like that's quiteenough of you.
So we're going to talk aboutconfidence what it is, what it
isn't and how to get more of itso you can be just like Will.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
Oh what?
No, I'm like the king ofimposter syndrome.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Say more.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
Yeah, I just feel like I have it because things
have worked out musically andprofessionally, not that I
haven't really tried and workedreally hard to get where I am,
but still some of the stuff I'vedone is kind of one in a
million things and what I'vedone is I'll just say yes to
things if I want it, even if Ican't do it, and then I will
(10:10):
learn to do it by the time it'stime to do it.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Because you have good work ethic.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
You do Maybe.
Oh, if I care about it.
Yeah, like if normal work ethic, like returning emails and
stuff like that, like the worstwork ethic, but if I have to
like learn how to uh, you know,ride a unicycle, yeah, I'm gonna
do that, all the journey songs,or?
Play, yeah, journey songs orwhatever.
Like I, I will say yes, I cando that, which is gangster, by
(10:34):
the way that you were able thatreally did happen and I hate
that I wasn't there.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
I think that's a really interesting perspective,
because I always tell people fora long time, especially women,
one of the things that we'resaying is like you just fake it
till you make it.
You know, you have to pretendyour way into things, and I do
agree with that.
I think sometimes we forget towake up and realize we've become
really good at something,though.
So something you used to fake,you were faking your way into it
(11:01):
.
One day you need to wake up andbe like oh, like, I'm an expert
at the things I used to say Iwas faking.
You know, because 10 years ago,15 years ago, when I might have
been like, yes, I am starting amagazine or whatever, I'm a
therapist.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Yeah, exactly Hi.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
I think of it as being healthy, right Like having
a healthy, like understandingof oh man.
I'm very fortunate to be here.
How did I, oh man, like?
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Well, you always, I always tell like my staff, you
know, we have the fortunateexperience of working with a lot
of people.
Some of them are famous, some ofthem are not, some of them are
really successful and I'm alwayslike you have to show up in a
room and pretend you've beenthere before, and that will keep
you out of the weeds offangirling or making it weird
(11:49):
for them.
If you pretend you've been inthe room before, then you're
going to be fine.
And I think that sometimes,when I see young women
especially like, my big pitch towomen is occupy your space,
take up as much space as youwere created to take up, because
when you do that, you givepeople, you give other people
permission to do the same thing,and so I think I've really,
(12:12):
like, leaned into that.
I don't.
I mean, and clearly I just toldy'all 10 things that I've
showed my ass and been agoofball and said the wrong
thing and did the wrong thing orthings I definitely wish I
wouldn't have done.
So I still definitely messthings up, but I mean, I don't
think that that should stop youfrom confidently getting back up
(12:33):
and trying again.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Well, I think we're framing it only professionally,
but I think it takes a certainamount of confidence to go to a
parent-teacher conference toquit a job to ask someone on a
date to say no to a date.
To ask someone for coffeebecause you want to be their
friend I think it's even inthese like simple ways takes an
(12:56):
amount of confidence andvulnerability, because there's a
lot of it's like the same to me.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Yeah, like the confidence is, even though
you're you might have a pit inyour stomach and you might be
really nervous and you're likewhat if this goes wrong?
What if I mess this up?
What if I say the wrong thing?
What if they say no?
Um, or even when you're havingto say no to something, and then
what if they hate me foreverbecause I said no to this thing?
Like I think there's of like,yeah, I have to be confident and
(13:24):
I've got to do it anyways, eventhough it might be really scary
.
But it also feels so vulnerablebecause you don't really know
what the outcome is going to be,but you still have to do it.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Well, so like when we were kids, so nineties kids we
had a lot of experiences wherewe had to figure stuff out.
So if I didn't know wheresomething was in the world, we
had the encyclopedias.
No, yeah, okay, I was likedictionary encyclopedias.
I'll never forget they were onour built-ins in my parents den
(13:55):
and I would just spend hourslike figuring out.
Figuring out if my bicycle gota flat tire and I wasn't close
to home.
I had to find the house I wasclosest to, to knock on the door
and say can you call my mom?
Right, and I know the phonenumber.
We've taken that away in thepast.
I guess 20 years for easyaccess to information.
(14:17):
So there's, it feels likefailure, so close if I don't get
it immediately or understand itimmediately, because you can do
almost everything instantly soyeah, I know people our age and
older deal with feeling a lackof confidence or low self-esteem
or what, or imposter syndrome.
But I think it's a verydifferent lack of confidence
(14:40):
than 20 somethings now or eventeenagers now.
They haven't had to figure allthat much out with like full
thought process of like how do Ifigure this out, how do I get
this done.
They can chat, gpt anything.
They never had to figure out.
If my bike has a flat tire,well, not to mention.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
I mean I think we can put an element into.
You know, it's funny because II remember wanting to throw up.
The first time somebody told methat their birthday like that
worked for me was in the 2000s,I was like, please never say
that again.
What do you mean?
You were born in the 2000s,everyone was born in the 1900s.
And alongside of that, Iremember my sister, who's in
(15:20):
higher education, calling me andtelling me that the university
she works for was having themread this book called Snowplow
Parenting.
And so, long before ChatGPTever made it on the scene, there
was a thing that was happeningdown the pipeline.
(15:40):
Instead of your child having tofigure it out, having to
navigate conflict resolution,having to walk in, give the
presentation, have a, get a badgrade because they forgot to
finish their project, and sothey walk in with it, whatever.
No, no, no, no.
This new generation of parentssaid I'll do it for you because
I'll fix it.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Comfort, yeah.
So, um, my daughter tried outfor a musical on Sunday.
We signed up for it like theaudition a week and a half
before, and it was reading froma script, one page and singing
30 seconds of a song without anymusic.
And she's like easy done got it, it's not a problem.
(16:20):
Like well, I think we shouldprobably practice.
And you'd be like, oh, nottoday, not today.
My anxiety.
I was in theater.
I know what it takes to get ahard role very difficult and
these little children are likestars.
This is not for like the school,this is like for the community.
And I'm I've just read all thisstuff on basically exactly what
(16:41):
you're saying like remove theobstacles.
And I'm like, look, I can offerto her once a day for me to
practice with her, and she canaccept or decline.
And I'm like, and this is goingto suck, and I knew it.
So every day, do you want toread through it?
We read through it a coupletimes and then, every day, what
do you want to sing?
I don't know.
And then she'd go play with herfriends or whatever.
(17:07):
She got a new curling iron,like a lot of that was going on.
And the day before I was like,look, it's gonna feel really bad
to get up there and not have asong.
And I was like so, really, ifyou want to just go sing happy
birthday, that's actually fine.
They're looking for a childthat feels confident.
She decides to sing tomorrowfrom annie.
Oh, oh, aggressive, got it allright.
This was adorable but, anyways,she wouldn't sing in front of me
and she's like I know this isstupid, I should be able to sing
(17:29):
for me.
I'm like all good, like tryingto normalize.
We get really nervous and thiskid is like has this like pitch
perfect voice, so I know she cando it.
She does not have theconfidence to it and, michael,
she's about to learn real quickwhat this takes.
So we she maybe sang through itonce in a whisper and um, I was
like, okay, like it's, we gottago, we have to get in the car,
(17:50):
so we go.
And um, I was not in the room,but it was only separated by a
curtain.
So I watch it and of courseshe's like making eye contact
and she's adorable.
Her script reading is perfect.
And then it gets to the songand it just like won't come out
and I'm like dying as a mom.
And they were really awesomewith her.
And they're like do some jumpingjacks shake it off?
(18:11):
You're doing great.
Um.
So she like kind of sings it,like she gets through it, and
she comes out and she looks atme, she jumps in my lap and goes
we have to get out of here.
This was the most disappointingmoment of my life and I was
like it was actually incrediblybrave and just so you know,
(18:33):
that'll be the worst and hardestaudition of your life.
Like you, it's over.
Like you did it.
Damn it if she didn't get arole in that musical.
Of course she did, and I waslike, because you made eye
contact okay, that was all um.
But so I tell her the role andshe's in the ensemble and she
like she might have a solo butlike that was the perfect role.
She's never been in a play.
She still looks at me and shegoes I didn't get a lead and I
(18:57):
was like did you think you wouldlike?
I just came out of my mouth andI was like you didn't laugh,
though did you no, I was justlike like let's have an honest
conversation, because I wantedto know like those other kids,
they got leads, probably hadlike voice lessons and like
whatever I was like, and theypracticed every day for hours
day and their moms are probablypsychotic.
But I had this fun moment as aparent that like just because
(19:21):
this kid didn't make the bestand like I wasn't nagging her,
she got to just experience somedisappointment and a win all at
the same time, because my hopeis she got a little lesson out
of that and I can guaranteeshe'll either do another musical
and really try, or she isn't,and that's fine.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
But when we try to master and control out of our
own distress, it just doesn'twork out for anybody the
discomfort thing, I think, islike you know, it would be the
thing I would love to tellmyself when I was younger is
like be uncomfortable.
And Like be uncomfortable more.
(20:01):
Don't just do things to makeyourself feel more comfortable.
Don't say the things to otherpeople, Don't you know?
Like don't avoid the thingsbecause you think you're going
to be uncomfortable.
Just go be an uncomfortable.
It's when the greatestsharpening of our life happens,
when we're able to navigate theuncomfortable situation and make
it through and go oh, we did it.
And that is how you move out ofimposter syndrome into
(20:24):
confidence is navigatingdiscomfort after discomfort
after discomfort and going, oh,I'm fine.
And actually you desensitizeyourself to the discomfort and
then you're like, oh, it's notthat big of a deal.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
So these kids are the snow plows, what you're
describing, and get to learnthat the stuff where we lack
confidence that could have beenum from the parenting we
received, like whatever that maybe.
So it can come from childhood,can come from birth order, can
come from just like who you wereborn with.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Like your personality .
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Yeah, uh, what sort I'm looking for.
You're not demeanor.
What are you born with?
Like um disposition.
Oh good one, just thedisposition you were born with.
So, um, if you like, if you putthis into chat gpt, it would
probably, if I had to guess umtalk about like body language
and posture and positiveself-talk, and I do think that
(21:18):
that's true for sure.
I like people to know, like,where did this come from?
Why do I feel this way and howdo I not keep recreating that
and how do I not put that on mychildren so we see that, like,
if a parent didn't do something,they'll put it on their kid,
like can you know the baseballstars?
You know that the parents arelike he's making it to he's
gonna make it to the big leagues.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
What's?
Speaker 2 (21:39):
a good one, d1 I don't know.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
D1, that's a good one , that's.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
I remember those people so like living
vicariously through our children.
That's displacing our own lackof confidence.
But so the positive self-talk.
I'm definitely not one that'swriting and lipstick on my
mirror like you go, girl.
But there is power in changingour thought process.
So if we say you know what, I'mjust not going to be this way
(22:05):
anymore, the brain's hearing notOkay.
It's not telling the brain howI'm going to be.
And so when we shift ourthoughts, it has to be this
power of like I'm scared.
So we can have the dialectic ofI'm scared and I'm able to do
this.
So it's like putting thisaction into the world and you
can say it out loud, you can sayit to yourself, you can tell
your partner, your wife, yourhusband, your best friend, your
(22:27):
dog, whoever, like this is whatI'm going to do.
And when we start with thatlanguage, we start to like,
stand a little taller and feel alittle bit more solid.
Does that make sense?
Like, instead of saying whatI'm not going to do, yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Well affirmations.
I challenge people on this allthe time, because anytime I'm in
a workshop with somebody andI'm like what you know, like I
want you to be speaking theright language over yourself, a
lot of times what will happen iswe are programmed to say the
not statement Um, I'm not gonna,I'm not going to skip exercise
anymore.
Instead of just saying I amgoing to exercise 30, I'm going
(23:00):
to move my body 30 minutes a day.
That is an affirmation thatcalls you into a positive state
of being and your brain willonly pick up on the negative
word.
So you have to make sure youdon't have negative words, you
know.
The other thing that I wouldsay to people too is your
environment really matters.
It will change you.
When you talk about disposition,like you're born into a family
(23:21):
and you can't control whereyou're born into, but when we're
old enough, when we're adultseven when you're getting into
college and you're older thanthat and your work environments,
you can control who you aresitting closest to.
Who are you allowing?
If your confidence is shaky andyou're an adult, you need to
take a look at the people thatyou're letting speak into your
(23:41):
life, because it really freakingmatters.
So if the people are like, well, you're just not good at that,
like that's okay, but you'relike trying to.
Let's say, you're trying to bea writer, and they're like, well
, you don't, you've neverwritten anywhere.
And it's like, well, you needto get up and find somewhere
else to sit and go hang out witha bunch of writers who will
encourage you and remind youwhen they had never published
(24:03):
anything.
And then they'll say the nicethings to you and encourage you
the way they probably wish theywould have been encouraged.
But mean people can really messup your confidence and I think
sometimes when we see adults whoare deeper into their life,
it's normally because there'ssomeone or some narrative
they're believing inside theirhead that says you should stay
(24:24):
small.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Well and mean is different than a challenger.
So, like that therapistyesterday who said to me I have
a lot of fear based thinking,that wasn't me and that was
accurate and I feel bondedenough to her for her to be able
to say things like you arerunning out of a lot of fear and
I can like sit with that andmove from there.
I have a will question.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
So, besides the time you were like eight and went on
the radio or whatever it waswhen this became your job, were
you scared to like go on a liveradio?
Speaker 3 (24:49):
show.
Oh no, I was really excitedtalk about.
That's good excited, but I'llsay this, even like I did some
radio spots over the years whereI'd be like, oh okay, I would
go do something on like thesupport station in town or
whatever, I'd fill in for peoplehere and there, just because I
had some experience, and eventhen I'd never had like a nerve
(25:10):
thing.
I had excitement but not nerves.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
So my little friend Amanda, who I talk about a lot,
she says sometimes excitementand fear feel like the same
thing and you have to decidewhich one it is.
Because they get so confused,because sometimes it just is
like I'm so excited about it andlike being able to lean into
that and shift, that you're sobrave.
But I guess if people ask nowif I'm ever scared to do therapy
(25:35):
, like no, I don't even thinkabout it.
But I once was.
But what is something that?
Speaker 1 (25:40):
scares you singing in front of people, yeah, and
that's not because you can't doit, because you absolutely can
do that and you're very good atit.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
But like it scares you because why?
Like I don't even have athought with it, like my whole
body starts shaking.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
But you don't do it all the time, right?
Yeah, so it's scarier when youdon't do something all the time.
It's the same thing for me.
If somebody asks me to come andtalk to a big group of people
no problem, not nervous at allI'm like, well, it'll be great
If you ask me to come and talkto five people.
I'm like, oh, because what'sthe difference?
Well, one of them feels reallyeasy and comfortable and natural
(26:20):
and like I'm OK with it.
It's just I've done it enoughwhere I don't feel whatever.
But that smaller, more intimategroup, it feels like there
could be a lot of judgmentbecause one of them I have to
look you in the face and there'sonly five of you and the other
one, y'all are just all like abig sea of people.
Yeah, no big deal yeah, that'sright.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
It's like I always compared that, because that's
the exact same way for me.
I'd rather talk talk to 5,000people than to five.
Yes, like it doesn't bother meat all to walk out and talk to
5,000 people.
I can do it all day, but it'slike skydiving, is not.
Your brain doesn't think you'regoing to hit the ground because
the ground's not coming at you,whereas bungee jumping, your
brain thinks you're going to diebecause the ground is rushing
(26:58):
at you.
Wow wild and and it's the sameway I kind of think about the
speaking.
Like when it's five people,that's right there in front of
you and they're all staring atyou and you're staring at them
and there's eye contact, whereaswhen it's 5,000 people, it's
not relative right, it's justdifferent, it's the ground is so
far away, that's a good one.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
That is a good one.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Okay.
So confidence overview you getto take a look where it came
from.
I don't think you have to findlike this.
One time, when I was nine, thisthing happened.
It's not about that.
It's like what was themessaging I got and how do I
want to shift that or lean intoit?
Maybe you got awesome messaging.
If you're a parent taking alook at, does my fear, does my
lack of confidence get pushedonto my child, or can I let them
(27:38):
have their own life experienceand your own personal messaging
matters?
It's not that I'm not going todo this anymore.
It's what am I going to do?
I am not going to be this wayanymore.
How am I going to be?
Speaker 1 (27:51):
What else I mean?
2025 is a great year to leaninto discomfort, like when
you're, when you can avoid it,but you won't get better if you
do.
You will get better if you leaninto the discomfort.
Sit in an awkward silence, beokay saying no to someone, be
okay having a hard conversation,be okay walking in and
(28:14):
pretending like you've beenthere before, and it will feel
uncomfortable and it might evenfeel like you're actually faking
it, but that's okay, like leaninto the discomfort.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
It's not as complicated as we wish it was,
because it's like you just go doit anyways.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Do it scared, as they say Do it scared.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
Before you Cut Bangs is hosted by Laura Quick and
Claire Feerman and produced byWill Lockamade.
Follow along with us everywhere.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Please subscribe to the podcast.
Find us on Instagram.
We're constantly doing polls.
We want to know what you think,and I know that you probably
know this, but reviewing us andgiving us five stars matters
more than anything, and we areso grateful to have you here.
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