MESSAGES FROM MONEY

In this episode we are joined by Ellen Rogin who is a money expert and financial intuitive. She helps people transform their relationships with money so they can have happier, more abundant lives. Her book, Picture Your Prosperity, was a New York Times bestseller, and her work has been featured on CNBC, ABC, NPR, TIME, and Oprah Magazine.

And our willing participant is Amanda who was kind enough to share her thoughts and insights on her experience.  She is currently in a career transition so this is an interesting time to explore with her.  She was working as an attorney but over the last few years, she paused to be at home and raise her young children and is currently looking to transition back into the workplace.

Episode Transcript

Ellen (00:05):
I really love to help people ease their suffering
around money.
I feel very grateful that moneyhas chosen me as one of the
people that it talks through.
I know I'm not the only one, butit feels really like a gift and
this is really why I left myfinancial advisory practices to
make a bigger impact for people.

Krista (00:24):
Welcome to the Beginner's Guide to the Third
Eye, the podcast that delvesinto the profound realms of
spiritual experiences, exploringthe dedicated practitioners and
various modalities that guide uson our transformative path.
Together, we will explore themystical, the magical, the
enlightened, and the sacred.

(00:45):
In each episode, we pairseasoned practitioners,
spiritual experiences, orhealing modalities, and a
willing participant to sharetheir experience in working
together.
We will explore the uniqueinsights, stories, and wisdom
gained from their own profoundjourneys, unveiling the
extraordinary narratives thatshape spiritual seekers and

(01:06):
practitioners alike.
My name is Krista Rauschenbergand my work as a healer has
emerged from hundreds of hoursof certified training, spiritual
initiations, direct experience,and deep personal work.
I have been employed in thehealing arts as a postpartum
doula, an advanced Akashicreader, an Akashic breathwork
practitioner, and a writer.

(01:28):
Facilitating and educatingpeople through their personal,
spiritual, and healing journeysis my greatest source of
happiness.

El (01:35):
And I'm Elle Larson.
I use sound and space to helpbalance internal and external
environments.
I've practiced holistic healingmodalities for over 20 years,
and my work includes Tibetanbull sound healing, feng shui,
reiki, and shamanism.

Krista (01:48):
Welcome once again to The Beginner's Guide to the
Third Eye where we demystify themystical.
I don't think there's a personon the planet that doesn't have
some form of complication withand around money.
Our belief about money is oftenvery tied to our belief about
ourselves and our self worth.
What makes it even morechallenging is that these
beliefs may not be our own.

(02:10):
They may be beliefs we inheritedfrom our family and have little
to no idea about.
Needless to say, ourrelationship with money is
incredibly important and oftenfraught.
It's a relationship that we allstruggle with on some level.
And it doesn't make it anyeasier that as a society, we
keep conversations about moneyin the shadows.

(02:30):
It seems like no one ever wantsto talk about money ever Let's
welcome our guests for thisepisode of messages from money.
We are lucky enough to haveEllen Rogan, who is a money
expert and financial intuitive.
She helps people transform theirrelationships with money so that
they can have a happier, moreabundant life.
Her book picture your prosperitywas a New York times bestseller,

(02:53):
and her work has been featuredon CNBC, ABC, NPR time, and
Oprah magazine.
Ellen's consultations helppeople gain insights on how to
grow their businesses, expandtheir wealth, and bring an
increased sense of peace aroundmoney.
She is also a sought afterspeaker and has trained and

(03:14):
coached thousands of consciousfinancial advisors and
entrepreneurs worldwide to usethe art of prosperity to grow
their businesses and theirwealth.
And our willing participant isAmanda, who is kind enough to
share her thoughts and insightson her experience.
Amanda is currently in a careertransition, so this is an
interesting time to explore withher.

(03:35):
She was working as an attorney,but over the last few years, she
paused to be at home and raiseher young children.
And is currently looking totransition back into the
workplace.
Welcome ladies.
I'm so happy to have you here.
Ellen.
I love an origin story and a bigpart of why we wanted to bring
this podcast to life was toshowcase energy workers and

(03:55):
demystify what they do, how theydo it and why.
So I'd love to learn more aboutyou and get a bit of your
background.
What was your first experiencewith the metaphysical world and
how did this work come to you?
And how has your life unfoldedto get you where you are today?

Ellen (04:12):
I'll speak in terms of how it unfolded and the work
that I'm currently doing now.
I was always open and a seeker,but very quiet about that part
of my life in my traditionalbusiness career.
For years, I was a traditionalfinancial advisor.
I have lots of letters after myname and I had my own wealth
management firm and I was, quietabout some of the things I did

(04:36):
outside of work because I didn'twant people to think I wasn't
managing their money well orwasn't grounded in the material
world.
So I didn't tell them I studiedfeng shui and I go to see
intuitives and all that stuff,unless I knew they would be open
to that.
And then about a year before I.
sold my practice.

(04:56):
I had an experience at aworkshop with some kind of
speaker, coachy type people.
And in the evening they did aspecial program for us.
And one of the things we wereworking on was intuition.
We were paired with, partnersfor different exercises.
And this one pairing the themewas money.

(05:17):
So I was working, With this guy,James, who I knew a little bit,
but not well.
And the way the activity workedis that he was to think about an
issue with money.
I had my hands on his back andwhen he turned around, I was
supposed to deliver some kind ofmessage.
James turns around and out of mymouth comes, fuck you for

(05:38):
thinking that you can't bespiritual and have money in your
life, I don't even want to bearound you and James pulls out
from his shirt.
And he said, Ellen, this is thepatron saint of poverty.
And he had a pendant on hisneck.
And he said, one of my clientsgave this to me, took it off,
put it down.
And then I stood next to him,grabbed his hand and start

(06:01):
walking with him.
And I was like, Oh, now I wantto be with you.
When this whole thing was over.
I'm like, what just happened?
Like, I love to swear, but notat people and not at people.
I don't know.
Certainly not in a professionalsetting.
And clearly the words coming outof my mouth were not mine.
It was as if I was.
It's channeling a message frommoney.

(06:22):
And when it was over, I spokewith the workshop leader and
he's Oh, that was just tappinginto your intuition.
I was like, really?
And so I started playing withthat because I was so curious.
And what ended up transpiringsince then was that I've created
a process where I journal andthat's the way that I talk to

(06:44):
what feels to me like the energyof money.
And I'm able to.
Download messages or ideas thatseem to be very helpful and
right on target with the peoplethat I meet with.

Krista (06:58):
Wow.
It's extraordinary.
So is it automatic writing anddo you have to preface it with
any rituals or grounding ormeditation?
What do you have to do toprepare to connect?

Ellen (07:11):
Yeah, so I have, more recently started to be asking
for more guidance, but basicallyI just start typing and trust
what comes through.
So I'll type, hi, money, whatmessages do you have for Amanda
or Krista or whoever I'm workingwith?
And learned to really, trustwhat's coming through because

(07:33):
every time I Start to question.
I'm like, really, is that right?
And then I talked to someonelater and they're like no, that
was right on for me.
I realized that I'm getting inmy own way or being of service
to people.
So I guess that would beautomatic writing.
I really did start a journalingpractice before all this

(07:54):
happened, where I was tappinginto bigger messages or just
trusting that.
And I think that was maybe thewarm up to starting to tap into
more specific messages aroundmoney for people.

Krista (08:10):
Does the energy of money have a certain characteristic.
Can you tell it's money versuswhen you journal and tap into
something else And just theenergy of money or the
personality, let's say changed.
Given different individuals thatyou're channeling it for,

Ellen (08:27):
Let me answer the last question.
1st, I'm absolutely gettingdifferent messages for the
people that I'm working with.
An example would be, there's aguy I'm friends with who I was
telling about this work, and itwasn't like, he'd ever done
anything in this realm.
He'd never had his chart done orsee somebody who was more
intuitive.

(08:48):
And, I did a session with himand when we were done, he's
like, Ellen, did you dial downthe woo for me?
Because that was just like, wewere talking about money.
It didn't feel uncomfortable orunusual for me.
And when he said that, Irealized that what comes through
feels like it's a message thatis in a, Way that the person I'm

(09:11):
meeting with can most here.
Sometimes I'll get a meditationthat's downloaded that I walk
someone through that clear stuffaway.
sometimes it's very practicalfor people.
You know, My background is as afinancial advisor.
So.
It will be like, Hey, do youguys have an estate plan?
Or if you, you know, very kindof financial planning, like, and

(09:33):
sometimes it's not like that atall, or it's more focused on
someone's business.
I just did a session for someonethat the whole thing was on how
she made her offers in herbusiness and how she was putting
herself out there in the world.
So it was almost like amarketing consultation that I
just trusted what was comingthrough.
So it's really different.

Krista (09:55):
That's so wonderful.
Amanda, tell us a bit about yourbackground.
What was your first experiencewith the metaphysical world and
what kind of readings orhealings have you had before
this?

Amanda (10:06):
I have a pretty practical background having,
been a lawyer in my priorprofessional life.
So very analytical, and alwaysopen to, Mental health,
meditation, yoga, not quite surehow I felt about the
metaphysical, to be honest, andthen I think in the last, year,

(10:26):
my curiosity has blossomed Idubbed March my woo woo month,
which has now, like, expandedinto, like, okay, this is really
something that, for me at least,is a curiosity that goes long
beyond just March, I've done anAkashic Records reading, I've,
done some shamanic journeying,but I'm really, kind of a, like,

(10:49):
a big newbie into this and, alsonot entirely sure how I'm
feeling about it because I'mstill very much in my analytical
mind.
But really very curious and openand awestruck by everything that
I've been experiencing.

Krista (11:05):
I like that you dedicated a month for it.
Good planning.
No, but you know, you gotta havea plan And that you were willing
to go beyond that says a lot.
Ellen, tell me more about howyou hear money.
What does it sound like?
How does it come through?
Is it a knowing?
Do you literally hear it?

(11:27):
How does the process work foryou?

Ellen (11:29):
It mostly feels like a knowing.
I'm used to doing my processthrough writing, but it's not
specifically a thinking thing.
So when I work with someone,I'll usually ask for some
information up front and oftenI'll read that and all of a
sudden I'll get just ideas orfeelings about what would be
helpful for them.

(11:50):
Or I can meet someone or be on aconversation with them.
And to that extent, it might bemore of a feel.
I'm like, oh, my God, they arefreaking out about their money
and I can sense that there'sincredible fear that they have.
That's what it feels mostlylike.
Knowing in which is interestingfor me coming out of this very

(12:10):
analytical left brain world tonot have the thinking part of
it, but more of a knowingprocess feels really different
than what I was used to doingprofessionally.

Krista (12:23):
I'm sure.
And I can imagine that the trustaspect is essential to let it
flow through you and not putyour human in to judge it or
criticize it.
You've been doing this a longtime, I'm interested in themes
you may have found.
What are common relationshipqualities with money?

Ellen (12:40):
One of the things I see quite often is worry around
money and what money tells meall the time is.
please stop worrying If we thinkabout if we can widen back and
be logical about it, the logicalleft brain side of me knows that
research shows when people arereally freaked out about money.
There's research that shows yourIQ actually drops and you can't

(13:03):
make good decisions.
Yet, when it comes to moneyissues if people have big
decisions up or it feels likethere's not enough money coming
in.
Many of us can feel like ofcourse, I'm going to worry about
this of course, and it is nothelpful.
It feels like we're doingsomething.
I think when we're worrying, butit actually slows things down

(13:23):
and inhibits our ability to findsolutions and people with less
means cannot believe that peoplewith lots of money worry.
But it's not based on yourincome levels.
Yes, if you really don't haveenough to feed your family or
pay for housing, that's adifferent kind of stress.
But, very wealthy clients thatI've worked with worry that

(13:45):
they're going to lose what theyhave, or that they aren't
confident they're making gooddecisions there was a woman I
worked with whose husbandbrought in all the money and she
just wasn't trusting her ownwisdom around it.
And the truth was, he wasn'tmaking sound decisions in some
ways, but she didn't have herrelationship with money,

(14:07):
solidified.
The other thing I think is veryhelpful for people is this
metaphor that we do have arelationship with money, just
like you'd have a relationshipwith anyone else in your life.
Some people may get that and Iknow I have a relationship with
money, but they only look at it1 sided what's money doing for
me?
But they're not looking at howare you in the relationship with

(14:28):
money?
Are you.
A jealous partner.
Are you looking for just ahookup?
Are you using money?
You're really thrilled with itwhen it's there or you pay
attention when you need it andthen you ignore it other ways.
Money wants to be there forpeople money wants to have a
great relationship.
And he really wants it to be atwo way street.

Krista (14:51):
Money is a powerful energy, no doubt.
But what I learned from this isthat it is also a very loving
and benevolent energy, and it'sincredibly misunderstood.
We're all in fear of it in away, and it just wants to help
and love us.
How would you working so closelywith it, characterize the spirit
or personality of money?

Ellen (15:11):
Yeah, I would say that you said it beautifully, Krista,
that money wants to be used as aforce for good in the world.
I can imagine someone saying,yeah, but it hasn't been there
for me.
And I've had major financialissues or difficulties.
And I'm not saying, that doesn'thappen.
What I hear often is when thosethings happen.
It's not a punishment.

(15:31):
It's not like you deserved to bestruggling with money.
Money sees it as really a way tohelp for growth for us to learn
to maybe do the work you'resupposed to most do.
There is a woman who I workedwith who is a health coach and
during, the 2008 recession, shehad a bunch of, workout

(15:51):
facilities and they lost it alland they ended up going
bankrupt.
In 2009, she started doingonline fitness training.
She has a YouTube channel andthen COVID hits and it's very
clear how she was settingherself up for great success and
to support her friends who werealso trainers and things because

(16:14):
she, went through that verydifficult time, but it set her
up for future success.

Krista (16:19):
Isn't that amazing?
Amanda, tell me what, if any,reservations you had, coming
into the session.

Amanda (16:27):
I think one was, my analytical mind, as open as I
am, this underlying, disbeliefwondering if this could be real,
But hoping it is, I think I wasreally excited, Krista,
honestly, because I was at ajuncture in my life where, money
was, playing a very huge role inmy transition back to the

(16:49):
workforce and my relationshipwith money felt very complex.
So I think I had a lot of hopeand excitement and also
disbelief that you, introducedme to Ellen when you did,
because that was in and ofitself a moment where I was
like, that seems just likesomething else is at play in the

(17:10):
metaphysical of sorts.

Krista (17:11):
I would agree with that because I didn't know that you
were having question.
Right.
And so after this all happened,I thought, isn't it divinely
intelligently designed that youtwo were brought together.
So that you could have this kindof unearthing and awakening and
support really.

Amanda (17:30):
Yeah.
Really excited and grateful.
And Ellen, you mentioned yourforms and the forms that you
fill out.
As I was filling them out, I wasthinking to myself, I don't know
what information to put on herefor two reasons.
One, I think wanting to provideenough information, but not too
much information to jadewhatever messaging was going to

(17:52):
be received.
And also I think a part of mewas, not wanting to share enough
to be like, I wonder if Ellenwill just know, which totally is
not helpful.
I recognize in, in retrospect.

Ellen (18:05):
I just want to say people do that all the time.
I appreciate when people give mea lot of information that's
helpful.
And sometimes they're notdescriptive and they still get a
good experience.
I think it helps me focus andmake it more pinpointed when I
know more, but it's not uncommonwhat you were thinking.

Krista (18:23):
Can I speak to that because I, have the experience
too when people are skepticaland they don't wanna open up and
share.
And I think all that does ingiving information, any kind of
information, whatever it is,it's a willingness and an
openness and it really does openup the energy.
I've had experiences where I canfeel like a connection point

(18:44):
happen and then energy juststarts flowing.
As much as they giveinformation, it's more that
they're giving energy andthey're sharing and they're
accepting the connection.
It's an agreement in a way.
Amanda tell us where you are nowin terms of your life and your
relationship to money.

Amanda (19:03):
Going back to my own capacity to make money, as a
lawyer which is where I startedout, I, made a fair amount of
money, but it didn't feel rightor healthy or, good for me, and
my family goals in my health.
So I paused, I had a kid, Itried to make law fit again, and
I, made enough money, but Again,it wasn't feeling right.

(19:25):
And I think at this juncture, Ihave two young kids and I'm
feeling pretty strongly thathave a professional path that I
want to pursue and a callingthat if I'm being honest, if I
look back even further, has beenlike a tickle in my mind for a
really long time and I want topursue it.
And I think it's, wanting tomake a difference, wanting to be

(19:48):
of service Block of sorts, orwhat has felt like a block of
how could I possibly make moneyand be of service?
So it's something that I'mreally grappling with as I'm
going back into the workforceof, this notion of needing and
wanting to support my family,but not wanting to go back into

(20:11):
a big legal environment.
But wouldn't that be easybecause then it would bring
money in.

Krista (20:16):
And also all the time, energy, expense, and the
investment of training to be alawyer, and then to perhaps
abandon that, there's got to bea lot of guilt or shame or,
critical thinking around that.
so to listen to an intercallingand, try to find that path is,

(20:39):
hero making, incrediblychallenging to you have to
really dig deep to understandwho you are and what you need,
aside from what society wouldtell you what you're programming
or what you're conditioningthrough perhaps family of origin
or society.
It's a lot.
You're in a really tender timein your life.

Amanda (20:59):
Yeah.
And the thing I didn't sharewith Ellen that I wish I had
shared with her at the outsetwas, this childhood messaging
from my parents, that it's notpossible to make money and make
a difference and that someoneneeded to make money.
It was placing money in service,at diametrically opposed ends.
And that's been messaging in mymind forever.

Krista (21:20):
Where are you with that now?
have you begun to reconcile thator even, approached it?

Amanda (21:27):
I re listened to our session a bunch of times, money
so clearly came across in thatsession as a benevolent energy
for me.
And in retrospect, it has alwaysshowed up for me.
But I, couldn't hear themessaging during our session
because I was so confusedalmost, and just like cloudy.
Cause I had this opposedmessaging from my childhood that

(21:50):
made it almost hard to hear thepositive side.

Krista (21:54):
Were you expecting for it to be punitive for you to be
in trouble?

Amanda (21:59):
It was like a non compute.
I can't explain it other thanthat.
It was like, but how could we befriends if I so very much want
to go in this directionprofessionally and couldn't
possibly make money doing thatbut during our session, Ellen
you were very clearly telling meopposite messaging for money.

Ellen (22:18):
And then we did a follow up with that question of you
can't make money and do good inthe world.
First of all, so peoplelistening to this, no, that's
not necessarily true.
It may have been true for yourfather.
It was a belief that he hadtimes were different than, or
that was what made sense forhim.
But 28 years, I was a financialadvisor and my business.

(22:42):
grew substantially once I landedin being of service versus
trying to make a lot of moneyand my business during the
recession grew 40%, which is abig deal considering the way
that financial advisorstypically get paid.
I had switched from focusing onhow this serves me to, oh my
gosh, people need me more thanever.

(23:03):
They need me more than ever.
They're freaked out about money.
And the financial advisors thatI work with, because that's some
of the speaking that I do andsome one on one work I do, all
see their work as a healingprofession.
That's a profession where peoplecan make a ton of money and do
good in the world.
It might be the way we approachthe work that we do versus how

(23:25):
we think of it.
I bet there's attorneys in everykind of law that see how they're
deeply serving people.
And I'm not saying that's whatyou should go back into doing,
Amanda, but it's not just youhave to be in a not for profit
or social enterprise to be doinggood.

Krista (23:43):
What do you think, Amanda?

Amanda (23:45):
Yeah, I think that is exactly true.
And I think that's what led meto law to begin with was this
desire to show that one couldmake a difference and make
money, at the same time.
Like a double down effect, I'mgoing to prove my parents wrong,
I have been fighting me againstmoney to show that I can make a

(24:09):
difference and make money.
But what if it doesn't work thatway?
What if the concept of money asan energy, like you're going to
be stagnant if you're just goingagainst it and there's not going
to be a flow of energy.

Krista (24:21):
You can also get used to and normalize going against it.
And forget that you're goingagainst it and think that's your
only choice, that you're alwaysgoing to be fighting with money.
That's so fascinating.
How, have things shifted for yousince having this conversation
with money.
Has it opened up things and Iknow with energetic endeavors,

(24:43):
it takes time it's not a quickfix.
It takes time to unearth thesebeliefs, and then reconcile
them.
What have you been experiencingsince?

Amanda (24:53):
Ellen asked me a question that was so spot on to
what I was trying to seek toexplore and this next step that
was validating of sorts.
And I also at first was like,how did she know?
And it threw me a little bit,but that was validating.

Krista (25:12):
You mean that money through Ellen highlighted
something that you had beenthinking about doing and she
brought it up organicallythrough this channel, being
witnessed like that.
Did that encourage you to pursuethat, in a different way with a
different energy?

Amanda (25:27):
It was a little bit like, okay, there's something
there, I had given myselfthrough September to figure out
how to make money and go in thispath.
And it feels like that might besuperficial.
So there was like a releasing ofthat Ellen gave me this
wonderful, imagery to a spigot.
And that was super helpful, likenot forcing a spigot on for

(25:49):
money, but letting it be aslower process.
That's exciting.
So all that was validating,

El (25:54):
I'm curious of your experience during the session.
You mentioned that there's thisdisconnect between, your
perception about money andservice.
What else came up for you as faras responses to what she was
saying or any emotions that youwere going through

Amanda (26:08):
yeah, one of them was this amazingly insightful,
intuitive question that was sospot on, with regards to what
I'm trying to pursue, and Ellenasked exactly on the topic with
regards to women's health and itthrew me out of the session for
a little bit.
I think I visibly groaned, sotrying to get my head back in

(26:30):
the session was hard

El (26:33):
because she had pinpointed that.

Amanda (26:35):
Yeah.

El (26:36):
And you weren't expecting that.

Amanda (26:38):
Wondering how she knew.
I'm like, did she Google me?
But that's not on Google.
It was like this whole line ofthoughts that, that came about,
instead of a trust in an initialtrust.

Ellen (26:51):
Okay, so welcome.
I thought it would be helpfulfor me to explain a little bit
about my process with you beforewe get into this.
That sound good.
Yeah, that would be great.
Thank you.
Thank you for giving me theinformation that you gave me
ahead of time.
My process is that.
I, talk with money on yourbehalf.
And the way that I do that is Ijournal.

(27:12):
So I have all these notes foryou, which I will give to you.
That's awesome.
My experience has been that thetransformation has the things
that people come away with.
often happen in our conversationas we're talking about this.
So I think you'll get value fromthese messages for money, but

(27:32):
there's going to be points whereI'm naturally going to stop and
ask you questions, but Iencourage you to share as much
as you want.
The other thing that I'veexperienced is that sometimes
Right after this session, peopleare during it, they feel a shift
or sometimes it's, days or weeksor sometimes even a little bit

(27:53):
longer transformation seems tohappen.
And I honestly don't always knowthe mechanism behind it.
So I wrote high money.
What messages do you have for mefor Amanda?
What would you like me to sharewith her?
Please do not be afraid.
We are waiting for you to stepinto service in a new way, a way
that continues to support youand your family, a way that uses

(28:16):
your skills, your energy, yourcreativity, and your intuition
to support others.
And then this question came up.
Does working with women orwomen's issues interest you?
I don't know where you're atwith your thinking about what
your next steps are.
If you've started to envisionwhat that might look like.

Amanda (28:34):
Is that really the question that just came up?
Oh um, yes.
Actually, that's like totallythe direction I am going in
because I've, I guess the pastfew months I've been trying to
share my story with postpartum,depression and mood disorders

(28:54):
and hormones and mental health,to take my story and be able to
translate it into some sort ofadvocacy work as well as
community building, for otherwomen to be able to start
talking about this stuff.
Or continue, cause there is alot that exists, but there's
also a lot more that could bebeneficial.
So I've been trying to do thatthe last few months, but.

(29:17):
I don't know how I couldpossibly, make money, to support
my family doing that work.
And that's not where my trainingnecessarily lies, my
professional prior life.
And just this morning I had aninterview on a blog for
postpartum stuff.
And my whole morning has beentrying to like pump myself up to
have courage to.

(29:37):
Share and respond and do that,but I don't know how that could
possibly make me money, right?
I think the reason why I reactedto you so strongly was because I
left that out of my, I left thatpart out of my description to
you.
I want to be of service and helpothers.
And I don't know how I couldpossibly make money.

Ellen (29:56):
Let me finish this and let's talk about, how you can
start to envision that.
This is an area that you can beof great value.
There are many ways you canmanifest and in many different
organizations.
It feels like an environmentwith confident feminine energy
would be fertile for yourcontinued growth.
Fertile.
Interesting word

Krista (30:18):
One of the more profound messages that I took away from
your session was when money saidto you, let's start with our
relationship.
Do you sometimes see me as anecessary evil?
Is there something that I do topollute people when I am in
their lives?
What a concept to have toreconcile, to have to shift your

(30:39):
perspective of money.
Good versus evil.
How has that been since thesession?

Amanda (30:45):
I did see money as a necessary evil, because I was
receiving messaging that Icouldn't pursue what I viewed to
be a life calling because.
of money.
I think I was confused becausethat didn't feel right to me,
but that was so ingrained in me.
And so instead of trying toparse it out, I did something
that felt like an ostrichsyndrome where I buried my head

(31:08):
in the sand and tried to pretendthat I didn't have to, decide
one way or the other.
My conversation with Ellenreally parsed out how deeply
ingrained that burying head inthe sand really, encompassed to
the extent now that I have youngchildren too.
And we talked about this, right?

(31:28):
Like how, if I'm burying my headin the sand with regards to
money, how am I supposed toinstill in my children, any sort
of positive messaging or lessonsabout money and I want to be it
was really hard in the sessionbecause I was so confused about
how to respond.
But it's been really positiveafter the fact because it's

(31:50):
encouraging me to do some deepreflection that feels really
hard, but it's really helpful tohave, the messaging, from money,
through Ellen.
And I think, feels reallyimportant to do with my kids.
And myself, if I need my kids asan excuse, okay, but for myself
too

Ellen (32:12):
So let's continue on with this.
You will be a wonderful supportfor your children over time as
they witness your commitment tothem and to your work.
As they see how you are therefor them and for others.
They will also learn selfreliance.
This is about you stepping intobeing employed again or starting
your own business or whateverthat looks like.

(32:33):
They will also learn selfreliance in a way they would not
if you stayed with them fulltime all the time.
Please don't worry about this.
Yes, it will be an adjustmentfor everyone at first, but this
too will be good for the familyto work through changing roles
and expectations.
Then money said, let's startwith our relationship.
Do you sometimes see me as anecessary evil?

(32:55):
There's something that I do topollute people when I'm in their
lives

Amanda (32:59):
It's funny.
I feel like my relationship withmoney is so complex that I'm not
entirely sure I would know howto describe it.
My dialogue with my parents wasoften you can't do what you want
to do because you need to find away to make money.
So I guess I would, yes, I wouldanswer yes.

Ellen (33:19):
We're going to go into your relationship with money in
a little bit.
I prefer that you see me as aloving, valuable resource when
it seems if I change people inless than excellent ways, it's
not about me.
It's about the lessons they needto learn this lifetime.
If you could see me as a reallygood friend.
And as a partner, it will helpus work together.

(33:41):
I am here for you.
If you believe this, that youcould be good friends and a
partner with money and livedinto this space, how would
things be different in ourrelationship?
So if you believe money wasthere for you as a partner, can
you maybe step into that space abit and see how things might
look or feel differently thanthey do now?

Amanda (33:59):
Yeah.
I feel like, it's an ostrichsyndrome.
Put my head in the sand.
If it was a friendship and apartnership, I think I wouldn't
do that.

Ellen (34:07):
it's helpful to be thinking about money as
something that you have arelationship with that goes both
ways.
So I'm hearing gratitude it'sgreat.
We've been saving money.
He's been there for us.
And I want to bring this in theother side is if we made the
metaphor that it's arelationship, what I also heard
you say so far is I'm scared ofit, or it's scary.

(34:28):
The whole thing is scary.
And that you've buried your headin the sand a bit.
What are ways that you could bea better friend to money that
you care for it?
And you pay attention likeyou've done to some extent in
the past, without it being.
Awful and knowing you don't haveto track every single penny
every single day.

Amanda (34:47):
I feel like it would be helpful to have a plan.
Yeah.
And I, again, it's so hardbecause I wouldn't say that to
my friend, right?
I wouldn't be I think ourfriendship is going to be better
if we could have a plan for ourfriendship.

Ellen (35:00):
You would say we need to make plans together.
Otherwise, I'm never going tosee you yeah, that's true.
That's true.
Like we need to spend some timetogether.
Then I asked what if anythingneeds healing in your
relationship with Amanda so isthere anything out there that
you and money need to heal.
Money, how would you love to seeyour relationship going forward?

(35:21):
I will be there for her and shewill easily be able to call me
into their family's life.
The more she is focused onserving in her work and serving
her family without guilt orstress, the easier it will be
for her to bring me in.
She's quite skilled at callingme in.
It's a matter of turning thespigot on for her.
It might feel stuck and hard toturn now, but it merely needs a

(35:43):
little oil to turn the knob.
So like you're going to be ableto do this.
There's just this little bit ofstuck energy, but the oil
relates to positive expectationsthat a you can totally do this
in a way that works for everyonein your life.
So not Oh my God, I won't bethere for my kids.
And B, the more you can meditatejournal or whatever

(36:04):
contemplative practice you haveon the positive feelings on this
transition that will be smooththe easier it will be.
So the more you can meditatejournal and or contemplate the
positive feeling on thistransition being smooth the
easier it will be because itfeels like there's this like
this is going to be hard.
And how am I going to do this?

(36:24):
Cause you've been out of theworkforce for a while and home
with your kids.
And now forcing the spigot mightbring in a quick, big flow, but
not an easy transition.
So boom, I got this big job.
And then all of a sudden, likethings are not easy.
It's like turning on a firehydrant.
So instead a slow easy turn willturn the flow on in a way to

(36:48):
absorb more quickly, forexample, starting very part time
to ensure it's a good fit andease into the transition.

El (36:57):
Have you noticed any physical shifts after the
session changes in your energyor that you feel, lighter or
resolved about certain things

Amanda (37:06):
I did have a moment of clarity where I saw, a clear
path of my professional dreamsand endeavors since I was a
child, even lining up in astraight line to now and being
like, This all occurred andyou're ready, you are poised and

(37:26):
ready to, progress to tacklethis next thing.
And I haven't really had thatyet and it felt really nice.
And it's fleeting.
There have been moments whereit's gone away, but, It was
there.

Krista (37:37):
That's amazing.

Ellen (37:39):
Amanda that thought of I want to do good in the world but
I can't have money and do wellin the world and I really got
how that is such, logical way.
It would keep somebody stuckfrom moving ahead too, because I
don't want to just do law theway I was doing before that
wasn't right.
But I want to do well.
And so to, release that struggleoh, they're not mutually

(38:01):
exclusive and there are ways tomake money and do well in the
world.
Or there's ways to make moneythat I feel good about and do
well in the world, other waysto.
That feels like an importantrealization that you've had to
release that to be able to moveahead more quickly as well.

Amanda (38:19):
Yeah, I totally agree.
And the other thing that youoffered, Ellen, that was very
helpful in that regard wasaction is the antidote for you
right now.
If I'm just butting heads,nothing's gonna give, but even
just the tiniest actions canstart moving the energy in my
mind.
Maybe it's not going to be animmediate aha release, but more,

(38:43):
gradient keep moving.
It's going to release.

Ellen (38:46):
The visual I just had, as you were saying that if all of a
sudden it was totally released,then you would, if someone's
pushing against you and theywalk away, then you fall
forward.
Instead of you butting headswith money, what if it was
walking alongside of you and youcould move ahead quickly
together?
So it doesn't mean it has totake a long time, but it's not
necessarily just that it justgoes away, but that you create

(39:09):
more of a partnership versusjust releasing that whole
belief.

Amanda (39:13):
I like that.

Krista (39:14):
What I've learned is that money is a powerful
spiritual teacher and can have areally huge influence and effect
on your self worth in positiveways and negative ways, even
shifts in perspective.
I think I knew that, but neverconsidered that money wants to
provide and support us as it ishelping us learn and grow.

(39:36):
Would you agree that we can seemoney as a guide to our true
calling or our true happiness?

Ellen (39:42):
Yeah.
I would say money wants to beyour friend and be your partner
in this process and see youdoing great things in the world.

Krista (39:49):
It's a whole different way to live, right?

Ellen (39:51):
For sure.

El (39:53):
One thing that's always, irked me.
So Ellen, I'm curious of yourtake on this, this happens all
the time, in the holistic worldwhere you'll see energy
exchange, and I'm like, just Saythat it's your rate because you
deserve to be paid money forwhat you're doing.
I'm curious to see what youthink about that approach for

(40:13):
calling a fee that you certainlydeserve an energy exchange.

Ellen (40:18):
I would say that the underlying misaligned belief
might be it's not spiritual tomake money.
That they're mutually exclusive.
It's probably the cousin toAmanda's, previously unexamined,
belief.
You can't make money and do goodin the world.
They're probably cousins andlots of people feel like that,
which is, not true.

(40:39):
It's not a true belief.
I'm not saying that there's notpeople out there that are
dishonest or doing things thatdon't make sense or aren't good
with money.
Of course, there is.
And then that's there.
Either money's not going to bearound for them for longer, then
they're going to learn lessonsin a way that might be less than
excellent.
Or maybe there's just not thehappiness or contentment like

(41:00):
you can have scarcity thoughtsand not have the right approach
to money and still have a lot ofit.
But doesn't mean you'll havecontentment or great
relationships.
So L that belief, I thinkcalling it an energy exchange or
feeling like it's not okay tocharge a certain amount.
isn't one that necessarily makessense.
And If you don't charge enough,people aren't necessarily going

(41:23):
to get the same value.
Because we have been brought upthinking when things are more
expensive, there's more valuethere or they pay more
attention.
I've been in programs that havebeen very expensive and I did it
very deliberately a, I trustedthem and knew they knew what
they were doing.
But I also knew if I investedthat money, I do the work if

(41:44):
they had charged me 200.
I would have been like, yeah,maybe I'd start and then blow it
off.
That's what I personally do witha lot of online courses.
I know I'm not good at followingthrough on stuff like that.
So often for me, I want toinvest in things, of course,
with people I trust, but thatenergy exchange isn't
necessarily serving that person.

(42:06):
That is a false belief.
It's one thing if you want todonate your services to people
that truly can't afford it,that's a different kind of
conversation.

Krista (42:14):
I actually like calling it an energy exchange because I
like thinking of money asenergy.
That's my little thing, but whenI first heard that I was a
little, or I need to change mywebsite because it says that on
my website.

Ellen (42:29):
But as long as here's the thing, I think there can be if
it is a fair energy exchangethat you're getting compensated
for the value that you'readding.
Then I think it's semantics.
And if it feels good, it's okay.

Krista (42:44):
Ellen, tell me what type of people come to you, for this
work.

Ellen (42:48):
Yeah, I have clients, all over the world, which is cool.
People are really interested inthis type of work in Australia
and New Zealand.
They tend to be people certainlythat are open to this work, but
also they tend to be more selfemployed or in roles where
they're the people wanting tofind easier or other ways to

(43:09):
make money or Like Amanda, who'sstepping back into the workforce
or getting clarity on that.
I would say is probably 90 to 95percent of the people that I've
worked with once in a while,it's someone, who's been in a
transition and they want to stepin, in a more powerful way with
money, maybe they're getting adivorce or they're a new widow,

(43:31):
or widower, so open tend to bereally generous people I love
when I can help people get moreclarity, figure out ways to
charge appropriately, get rid ofblocks that might be inhibiting
their ability to move ahead withmoney and having a desire to
have a better relationship withmoney.

(43:53):
So it's not something that is.
Stressful and a block for them.

Krista (43:59):
You noticed that more people are open and available to
energy work or light work,however you want to characterize
it?

Ellen (44:08):
The interesting thing where I've noticed it, I was,
Very quiet about this work thatI did.
It used to be a hidden page onmy website.
This is the kind of work I dowith individuals, but on a more
speaking scale.
I do a lot of work in financialservices and I'm like, I was
very worried about peoplethinking I was weird or too out

(44:32):
there and not grounded and Icouldn't give them good business
advice and through someencouragement of just being more
comfortable in this role that Ihave.
I've been way more open and Idon't know, 80%, 90 percent of
the time when I share withsomeone like, Hey, I do
intuitive money work.
They lean in and want to knowmore.

(44:52):
And if it's not for them,they're like, Oh, okay.
And we talked about the nextthing.
I mean, I did a workshop for 17,super, uber wealthy guys.
And it was on their relationshipwith their partner, with money.
And I told them, I'm like, Hey,I talked to money and it talks
back.

(45:12):
And if that doesn't make senseto you, this is a helpful
metaphor.
We all have a relationship withmoney and they were all okay
with it.
And that was a huge risk for meto do that.
Um, Stood up in front of 500financial advisors and said,
Hey, I do this.
one woman came up to meafterwards and said, so you
channel messages from money.

(45:34):
Oh, yeah.
And everyone else if it's notfor them, but way more people
are interested and open to thisthan.
I think talk about it.

Krista (45:44):
That's got to be so exciting to see it grow.
And I'm sure you're skill aroundit or your practice within it,
has changed a bit in order to beable to create the space for it
or the actual channel for it.
Have you noticed that as well?

Ellen (45:59):
Yeah.
And I think it, it comes from atrust level also an experience
level that it's helpful forpeople.
And, yeah, I'm way more,comfortable delivering messages
than maybe I was.
At the beginning, I think theywere still helpful for people at
the beginning and, you know, I'mpursuing learning ways to do
this at an even deeper level.

(46:20):
I'm working with some teacherson that, but I feel really good
about it.
And I also feel good that allthose years of being a financial
advisor, which I did really goodwork.
I love my clients.
It was never.
Work that was my heart work.
It was the speaking and thewriting and that, which was a
bit now looking back, I'm like,Oh I have all that experience to

(46:40):
bring me to this point.
So not only the intuitiveexperience, but I ran a really
good business and I know a lotabout money.
So it brings that practicalexperience to the sessions as
well.

Krista (46:53):
You had mentioned during the session that people process
in different ways.
Some people get it right away.
Some people come back, days orweeks or months later.
Have you noticed any kind ofpattern with that?
Is there anything that you canspeak to with how people process
this type of energetic work,

Ellen (47:12):
I think people process.
In the time that makes sense forthem.
And sometimes when we makeshifts, we don't even realize
that they're happening.
So sometimes I'll finish asession with someone and someone
will go, oh, I feel so muchbetter.
That was great.
Or their money mantras, usuallyI hear that's really great when
they hear their money mantra,which is just a message that

(47:34):
gets downloaded for someone tobe thinking about.
So I asked if there was a moneymantra for you and what came
back is my relationship withmoney is joyful and easy, which
feels different than stressfuland guilt ridden.
My relationship with money isjoyful and easy.

(47:55):
I didn't even realize till afterthe first year I was doing this
more on a regular basis, thetransformation was even
happening for people because ifI didn't talk to them, I didn't
know.
And then I was talking to afriend and I said, Oh, I was on
a podcast.
And someone said, Oh, do youhave a good story to tell?
And I, I didn't have a greatone.
She's oh my God, tell my story.

(48:17):
Ever since I worked with you,I've quadrupled my rates and my
business is better than ever.
It was like, really?
I didn't know that.
And then there's another womanwho I went back with after a
year.
I'm like, Hey, just checking in,seeing if another session would
be helpful.
She goes, I'm good.
I used to worry all the timeabout money and I don't worry
about it anymore.
Look, that's awesome.

(48:37):
That's what I'd love to hear.

Krista (48:40):
It's why you do this work, I'm guessing,

Ellen (48:42):
yeah, I really love to help people ease their suffering
around money.
And when I say that, sometimespeople think, Oh, that's for
people that are overspenders andthey have tons of debt.
And those aren't actually thepeople that I work with very
often at all.
It's really people who havemoney in their life or want to
bring more in and want to dogood in the world.
And those are people that I knowI can support in just a variety

(49:07):
of ways.
So.
I feel very grateful that moneyhas chosen me as one of the
people that it talks through.
I know I'm not the only one, butit feels really like a gift and
this is really why I left myfinancial advisory practices to
make a bigger impact for people.

Krista (49:24):
Thank you so much.
Thank you for doing that.
You said something beautifulabout the type of people you
attract or.
That you choose to attractpeople that you,

Ellen (49:34):
I may have said they're generous, conscious people.

Krista (49:36):
I thought that was interesting That that's who you
know, you're attracting.

Ellen (49:40):
I feel like I attracted the right people in my financial
advisory practice.
They were really good savers.
They weren't over spenders.
Not that there's anything wrongwith people that have spending
issues.
They're just not the people thatI'm most meant to serve.
And that I think when we areclear on who we're most meant to
serve, and we can draw thosepeople to us, we get to do our
best work.

(50:01):
And that was a process that Ilearned.
Consciously, while I have myadvisory practice and now I'm
just trusting the right peopleare going to come through and
they all happen.
I haven't had any people thathave an awful relationship with
money that don't want to fix it.

Krista (50:17):
I think that's a wonderful thought to pose to
Energy workers or people ingeneral that you can really draw
in or attract people that youcan really help.
And you don't have to muddlethrough difficulties if it's not
going to serve you, if it's notgoing to teach you.

Ellen (50:32):
Or help them.
Yeah,

Krista (50:33):
yeah, exactly.
That really pinged me that youhad that acknowledgement or that
awareness and that it was allworking so well for you and in
your favor and in their favors.
Tell us as an energy worker, alight worker, tell me what your
spiritual practices are.
How do you keep in alignment?

Ellen (50:53):
I think my biggest one is meditation.
I can't not meditate When Ifirst learned I don't know, call
it 18 years ago.
I learned, a mantra basedmeditation.
Then I was trained in TM.
And then I actually did teachertraining with the search inside
yourself leadership Institute,which was the mindfulness
program that came out of Google,which is more mindfulness based.

(51:14):
So it depends what kind of moodI'm in.
Usually in the mornings, I'lljust focus on my breath.
Sometimes I'll do a lovingkindness meditation.
If I'm feeling a little.
Not so loving kind of cranky.
And I love your breath workKrista has these amazing
sessions that she does arounddoing breath work.

(51:35):
And I find that so helpful tomove stuff through and to get
grounded.
I find that it's a beautifulpractice.

Krista (51:42):
Thank you.
Elle did the music for that,

Ellen (51:45):
which is fabulous.

Krista (51:46):
Amanda, how are you feeling?
Anything you'd like to add orshare?

Amanda (51:50):
Now I am just beyond grateful to be sitting here with
you three.

El (51:55):
Do you have any steps going forward that you plan to take
based on this?

Amanda (51:58):
Yeah, we're meeting with the financial planner.
My husband actually has spokenwith her, as well, and we both
loved her.
She was the best feeling forboth of us.
So we're meeting with her nextweek and we've tried incredibly
hard to find a financialplanner, and we've met with a
gajillion so that felt huge forus.

(52:20):
Yeah, I'm hopeful that if I cankeep putting one foot in front
of the other.
With these small actions thatthe energy is going to start
opening up and I'm going to beable to move into a space where
I can serve and, support myfamily.
I guess the only other thing Iwould say too is I loved, Ellen
encouraged, the notion ofgenerosity, proceeding,

(52:42):
prosperity, and so encouraged,charitable giving and that being
a way of moving energy.
And I really loved that and didthat as well to two
organizations that, that weloved.

Krista (52:55):
Ellen, you say that in a very specific way remind me what
it is,

Ellen (52:59):
Amanda said it, generosity precedes prosperity.
So often people say, oh when Ihave money I'll give back, and
that actually makes me a littlecringy.
I want people to give forward,not more than you can afford to
do.
anyone listening to thisprobably can afford to help
somebody else with in some way,whether it's someone they know
or a charity that's important tothem.

(53:21):
And what it does is it helps usloosen our grip on money.
And then, if you're clasping sohard, it's hard to receive.
But if you loosen your grip abit, it's easier to bring money
in.

Krista (53:35):
All right.
Thank you so much Ellen.
Tell us where to find you.
Tell us what you have coming up.

Ellen (53:40):
Sure.
You can find [e-mail] if you want information on
messages from money, you canalso go to messages from
money.com and I'm very excited.
I have a new book coming outcalled Messages From Money, how
to Stress Less, prosper More,and Reshape Your Relationship
with Money.
And if you go to ellenrogan.
com forward slash goodies, youcan download a free copy of my

(54:04):
first book, great with money.
And there's some other resourcesthere for you as well.

Krista (54:08):
See how generous you are.
That's amazing.
Thank you so much.

Ellen (54:13):
It's really fun to be able to do this and I don't
usually get to debrief sessionsright away like this so I
appreciate that opportunity.
To do that,

Krista (54:23):
thank you so much for your time I was blown away by
all this thank you.
Yeah,

El (54:28):
so interesting.

Ellen (54:29):
Yeah.
And Amanda, thank you for youropenness to do this and Krista
for you wanting to do this andElle for all the work you do.

Krista (54:37):
Thanks Amanda.
I'll talk to you soon.

El (54:40):
Enjoy your day guys.

Krista (54:42):
Bye.
Thank you for joining us forthis episode of The Beginner's
Guide to the Third Eye.
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(55:02):
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