November 22, 2024 • 46 mins
In this episode, we dive into the sense of touch and explore how cuddle classes are revolutionizing the way we connect with others and ourselves. This simple yet profound act of platonic touch in a safe, supportive environment can help support personal growth, emotional healing, and provide a deep sense of community.
Stella Cheung is a love and intimacy coach who helps clients intuitively connect with their mind and body in order to access their innate wisdom and be more authentically self expressed. She has over 20 years of experience teaching yoga, meditation, and shamanism, and is also trained in conflict resolution as a certified mediator and coach.
Our willing participants are your hosts Krista and El who very bravely (if we say so ourselves) agreed to try a Cuddle Class. Eek!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Stella (00:05):
Our head is on their belly, we're feeling their
rhythm.
Somebody else is on our belly.
They're feeling our rhythm.
What tends to happen is we areco regulating.
And we begin to breathe.
Very similarly, we begin tobreathe at a rate that matches
(00:26):
each other and everything justslows down, everything relaxes,
and our parasympathetic system,kicks in where we are able to
relax.
We're able to not be in ourstressful fight or flight modes
and as we relax, the oxytocinstarts to build, as we're
(00:49):
connecting with each other, aswe're laughing as we are getting
squeezed, sandwiched we can feelhigh from it, right?
We can feel like we're floatyblissful.
We're feeling soft feeling veryreceptive, your heart is
opening.
That's the oxytocin high.
Krista (01:09):
Welcome to the Beginner's Guide to the Third
Eye, the podcast that delvesinto the profound realms of
spiritual experiences, exploringthe dedicated practitioners and
various modalities that guide uson our transformative path.
Together, we will explore themystical, the magical, the
enlightened, and the sacred.
(01:30):
In each episode, we pairseasoned practitioners,
spiritual experiences, orhealing modalities, and a
willing participant to sharetheir experience in working
together.
We will explore the uniqueinsights, stories, and wisdom
gained from their own profoundjourneys, unveiling the
extraordinary narratives thatshape spiritual seekers and
(01:51):
practitioners alike.
My name is Krista Rauschenbergand my work as a healer has
emerged from hundreds of hoursof certified training, spiritual
initiations, direct experience,and deep personal work.
I have been employed in thehealing arts as a postpartum
doula, an advanced Akashicreader, an Akashic breathwork
practitioner, and a writer.
(02:13):
Facilitating and educatingpeople through their personal,
spiritual, and healing journeysis my greatest source of
happiness.
El (02:20):
And I'm Elle Larson.
I use sound and space to helpbalance internal and external
environments.
I've practiced holistic healingmodalities for over 20 years,
and my work includes Tibetanbull sound healing, feng shui,
reiki, and shamanism.
Krista (02:33):
Welcome once again to The Beginner's Guide to the
Third Eye where we demystify themystical.
El (02:40):
In this episode, we dive into the sense of touch and
explore how cuddle classes arerevolutionizing the way we
connect with others andourselves The simple yet
profound act of platonic touchin a safe, supportive
environment can help supportpersonal growth, emotional
healing, and provide a deepsense of community.
Our practitioner today is StellaChung, a love and intimacy coach
(03:03):
who helps you intuitivelyconnect with your mind and body
to access your innate wisdom andbe more authentically self
expressed she has over 20 yearsof experience teaching yoga,
meditation, and shamanism, andis also trained in conflict
resolution as a certifiedmediator and coach.
She creates and facilitatesexperiential events that defy
conventional social constructswhere you feel safe to step
(03:26):
outside of your comfort zone anddiscover your potential for love
and connection.
And, our willing participantsare, us! When I brought up the
idea of a cuddle class, bothKrista and I shied away from it,
or rather rejected the idea,which meant that it was probably
a good thing for us to do.
Join us as we explore theholistic benefits of platonic
touch, uncover the sciencebehind cuddling, and meet the
(03:48):
inspiring individual spreadingwarmth and kindness through this
remarkable practice.
So Stella, can you tell us alittle bit about your
background?
What other modalities you'vestudied and what led you to
this?
Stella (03:59):
Yes.
So it's been a journey I'm sureyou guys know, it's one thing
leads to another.
My background is in the healingarts with yoga, mindfulness,
meditation, a lot of somaticwork, dance and shamanism.
And I'm also a certifiedmediator.
And over the years, just forthese different practices and
(04:19):
connecting to myself, helpingothers to connect, I've To their
bodies to their truth.
It has led me to knowing anddiscovering that I really have a
love for facilitating connectionbetween people, whether that is
in conversation, whether that'sinteraction in how we relate to
people.
And so it has led me to creatingthis community.
(04:42):
called Misfits in Love, where itis about relationships, and it's
about discovering, what is mostfulfilling for you, and what
that looks like, because what'smodeled for us is only one
model, right?
It's heteronormative, monogamy,and it's like, what are the
options outside of that, ifpeople are looking at what is
fulfilling, or even not puttinga label on it?
(05:02):
So this led me to doingexperiential workshops,
experiential classes, wherepeople can actually experience
for themselves how they like torelate and how they like to
interact with people and to beable to connect in a way that
feels meaningful.
So that's really the crux of mywork.
Krista (05:20):
That's fascinating.
What type of I was going to sayeducation.
Is it an educational background?
How do you study for somethinglike this
Stella (05:28):
It's been cumulative over the years just accumulating
knowledge and Putting piecestogether and I guess We're
always our own guinea pig rightand what we do or what we teach
is what we need most And comingfrom a family where I didn't
really feel like there was true,deep connection, that's what
(05:48):
I've longed for in my own lifeand in my own relationships.
It also comes from I reallydon't like small talk, and so
how do I, relate to people whenI first meet them in a deeper
way.
What kinds of questions can Iask that will foster a deeper
connection and faster?
So I like to do that not justfor myself, but to be able to
facilitate that for groupsettings as well.
(06:09):
Mediation training helps withfacilitation, but I also went to
facilitation school anddiscovered how to create,
whether it's 10 or 100 peopleand how you can create intimacy
even in a large group that youdo feel like you're making
deeper connection it wasactually during COVID that I was
(06:31):
able to grow my community, usingfacilitation exercises, these
different ways of helping peopleto connect online.
I think it's really powerfulknowing how to, Facilitate
connection whether it's onlineor in person with a community or
with groups, because it reallydoes work Things that are
(06:52):
facilitated or guided in a waythat feels intentional, where
our time.
Getting there and being spentthere feels like it's well used.
Krista (07:01):
Amen.
It's so courageous what you do.
I think it takes such courage tobe vulnerable to bridge those
uncomfortable gaps and bringpeople together and bypass all
of their own, either socialanxiety or personal anxiety to
just go in and take themforward.
I think as a facilitator musttake a lot of courage.
Stella (07:23):
Thank you.
I was going to say, I can bereally socially awkward.
And so maybe that helps mysocial awkwardness.
But knowing what it feels liketo be on that receiving end of
showing up to a place and reallynot knowing anyone or not
knowing where to start.
I think it just really helpspeople to have a place to start,
you know.
Krista (07:41):
Anytime I go to just a party, They always seem so empty
to me It's like, can we dosomething can this be a game
night or can we go do anactivity or something?
So I'll put myself in charge ofsomething just so that I have
some function in thatenvironment.
Yeah.
I can relate.
That's really anxiety.
Yeah.
El (08:00):
I have a little bit of the same thing I feel really
comfortable in a situation andreally comfortable talking to
people that I don't know whenit's something that I'm a part
of or I'm hosting, a sound bath,super comfortable, talking to
people who have come in.
But when it's a situation whereit's not in my domain I'm not
the one that's going to go upand introduce myself to somebody
that I don't know.
So then yes, I would be, butthere's a lot of people out
(08:22):
there like that.
There's a lot of people outthere who are comfortable just
like, Oh, Hey, so and my name iswhatever.
And Stella, you don't strike meas the type to be.
Socially anxious because itseems like you do everything
with ease.
But then again, this is yourdomain and you're the one
facilitating it.
So do you notice that kind ofshift as well?
(08:45):
If it's something that you'rehosting and something that you
feel, you've got to absolutely,
Stella (08:51):
yes, because when I'm hosting, it's like, wherever it
is, it's like I'm welcoming theminto my home, right?
That's how it feels.
And I want people to walk infeeling safe, feeling
comfortable, knowing what toexpect.
If it was me going to an eventwhere I didn't know anybody, I
might just be a fly on the wall,or depending on my mood or who's
(09:12):
there.
So yeah, it was very different.
El (09:16):
Okay, so we're about to head into cuddle class.
How are you feeling?
I'm nervous.
Nervous how?
I don't know.
I don't really like peopletouching me.
Strangers.
Yeah, and I'm not sure what toexpect.
But I also know because I feelthis way, it's probably good for
us to be doing this.
Do you feel the same way?
Krista (09:35):
I don't want to do this and I don't do Know who?
comes to these kinds of things.
What are we getting ourselvesinto?
But it's something that I havesuch a big aversion to is
probably going to have a reallygood outcome.
But I don't want to be here.
It's not that I don't want to behere.
It's just I just don't wantanyone to touch me.
And I want to be put in aposition where I'm going to have
(09:56):
to do something that I don'twant to do.
And I don't want to Get in thethings like group pressure I'm
not a joiner of anything I'llstay on the outside in the
lodge.
Yeah, but I'll stay here.
Okay, so I don't know what'sgonna happen.
El (10:08):
The one thing is that I trust the facilitator
implicitly.
You know her, she knows herreally well, I don't know
Krista (10:13):
her,
El (10:14):
So at least I have that, so I don't want to blame you.
And then I
Krista (10:17):
trust
El (10:17):
you,
Krista (10:18):
One removed.
I'm going in.
Yeah, we're going in.
Alright.
Anyway.
Bye! See I have to say walkinginto this.
experience.
You held such a safe, warmwelcoming home for us to relax
into.
So I felt really safe walking inthat didn't help my anxiety of
(10:40):
what was about to come, but atleast there was that.
Invitation to relax.
And I thought it would beinteresting.
I felt safe with you.
I guess is my point.
Oh,
Stella (10:50):
That just warms my heart hearing that.
Thank you for sharing that.
Can you describe to us a littlebit Stella?
What is a cuddle class?
Oh, that is a there's so manylayers to it.
I would love to ask you thatquestion.
I would say The first thing Isay is that it is an
(11:11):
experiential class with platonictouch with no strings attached.
There's complete autonomy forevery person and choosing what's
right for them in every singlemoment.
And it's about being able toclearly communicate Your yes and
(11:34):
your nose and being able to sayno without guilt.
So I say it's a, class aboutbeing able to communicate your
needs and your desires and beable to express your boundaries.
That's what it's really about.
It's a class about thatdisguised as a cuddle, so I
(11:57):
think there's so many lifelessons that can be learned
within a cuddle class that are alittle unexpected.
El (12:08):
Yeah, I would definitely agree with that.
I think it was really importanthow you started the class out
with us just getting into ourbodies and walking around the
room and doing some stretching.
That was just a very solitaryactivity within the group and it
helped us begin to engage withthe energy of the other people
in the room, but mostimportantly, like engaging with
(12:28):
our own bodies and how we feltand then there were these
practices around consent andasking and receiving consent or
saying no or no, thank you.
And I thought that was reallyimportant and super valuable.
One of the things that I walkedout of the class saying was if
everybody had some of thoseconsent exercises, there could
(12:50):
potentially be, less trauma inthe world because not only
people feeling comfortablesaying no or giving an
alternative no, I'm notcomfortable with that, but we
can do this instead.
And most importantly, feelingokay.
hearing no.
One thing that you mentioned isno is not a rejection.
Can you talk a little bit moreabout that aspect of the class?
(13:12):
Sure.
I think that's one of the keyparts.
That a significant part ofcuddle class and being able to
say no and reframing it even forourselves and how we hear a no
because, we're conditioned tothink that a no is a rejection
(13:33):
and we might take it personally.
So to be able to bring the nointo a different light, into a
different way of thinking aboutit as Oh, that person is taking
care of themselves or I'm sayingno, because that's not what I
want right now.
And I'm taking care of myself.
It's also thinking about how ifI can trust your no, then I can
(13:56):
trust your yes.
Because I think as women, we aretaught and conditioned to be
agreeable, to accommodate, Igrew up being a people pleaser.
And so it's saying yes toeverything, or, if I Don't say
yes, being afraid, the fear oflosing this person's love or
losing this friendship orwhatever.
(14:17):
It might be a threat, right?
It could be a threat to somesort of love that I am wanting
to keep or to keep theconnection.
Being able to say no is superpowerful because then it begins
to create the trust that we canreally Be honest with each other
that we do respect each otherenough to be honest To be
(14:38):
authentic and to say the hardthings even if it is hard and
what creates true intimacy isbeing able to Be open and being
able to really express what'strue for you.
Krista (14:51):
And so that's how you started our class.
I'm guessing you start everyclass that way by teaching us
the rules where you pair us upand then someone will ask to hug
us, let's say, and then we'remade to say no to practice
saying no, regardless of what wefelt in that moment.
And it sets it up.
So everyone has that experienceof what it's like.
(15:12):
And then you're giving uspermission to do that throughout
the rest of the class.
So it sets a foundation that wehave a choice.
Stella (15:19):
Yes, absolutely.
That every person has a choicein any moment.
I'm curious what it was like forthe two of you to say no and to
receive a no.
El (15:29):
It was wonderful to have that groundwork laid and being
like, okay it's good to say no,it's okay to say no.
For me that felt reallycomfortable.
It made me feel more safe in thespot.
And I thought it was also reallyimportant how you instructed on
saying no, you could give analternative do you want to hug?
No, but I'm okay.
Shaking hands but then alsoreceiving that.
(15:49):
No when I said no, thank youwas, oh, well, you know, I'm,
I'm happy that you're takingcare of yourself or, thank you
for taking care of yourselfwhich.
Is really affirming.
It's like that person issupporting my decision instead
of feeling put out by mydecision.
Stella (16:04):
Yes.
I love how you put thatsupporting your decision.
And it doesn't necessarily meanthat's the end of the
conversation, right?
You can negotiate.
El (16:15):
That make you feel Krista?
Krista (16:16):
I was very happy for it.
I said no a lot.
It took me a while to warm up.
My guard was very much up.
So to have that as an option,having no idea what we were
getting into, Oh, okay, I don'thave to do any of this.
I wasn't ready to reallyparticipate.
I didn't want to engage.
So it helped a lot.
Stella (16:37):
I was going to say I just want to acknowledge the two
of you it does take a lot offreaking courage to come to a
cuddle class to not know what ishappening.
Because even just the name cansound weird, right?
What is a cuddle class?
I don't want to be aroundcreeps.
I don't want to be touched bycreeps.
Krista (16:53):
Why are we going to a sex party?
We talked about it after, Iwould have never gone without
Elle or a friend.
The people that came on theirown, hats off.
My goodness.
Amazing.
Stella (17:06):
Yes.
Absolutely.
Yes.
And it's so normal.
The way you guys described howyou felt is totally how others
feel.
Like it's so normal.
It's what most people feel like.
It would be weird for them tonot feel that.
Krista (17:21):
Of course, right?
Yeah.
El (17:22):
So what type of people do seek out a cuddle class?
Who is your audience?
Stella (17:26):
That's a good question.
It's usually people who havefelt isolated, I think, as the
pandemic ends, or they're stillfeeling effects of the isolation
from the pandemic.
They are living alone.
They're not in a relationship.
There is no family.
They could be in a relationshipwhere there is not a lot of
(17:48):
touch going on.
Their partner may not beinterested in touch so they're
getting a need.
Met and fulfilled by coming to aplatonic touch class.
Krista (18:01):
We saw that there's a community people that have
continued to come back and had arelationship already formed.
So they knew what they werecoming for.
They knew what they were comingto get, and they dove right in
and didn't waste any time, whichI thought was fascinating.
Stella (18:17):
Yeah, people do get to know each other through the
cuddle community and They dojust come, dive right in and to
a spoon train and to a bear den,all of those cuddle positions
that we like they were gettingtheir medicine.
And they wanted it.
Yes.
Yes.
(18:38):
I think, people who are wantingto connect.
In a different way to experiencethemselves in a different
context might seek out anexperience like this, out of
curiosity.
Krista (18:49):
It's almost like training ground, right?
Come do it in this platonic safeenvironment and then you can
apply what you learned out inyour world, in your life, in
your relationships.
And like anything with morepractice, you get better, you
get more comfortable withasking, even with the actual
contact or touch.
Stella (19:09):
Yes.
A question is popping up in mymind.
Am I able to ask?
For sure, please.
So I'm curious, when you heardCuddle Class, what was your
first impression?
Like what images, what feelingsor words came to mind about it?
And what was your impressionafter?
El (19:29):
I was imagining the freestyle cuddle.
Because you're involved and Iknow you and I trust you.
I knew that there would be ahigh level of ethics to it and a
high level of integrity to it.
But I pretty much imagined whatwas going on in the freestyle
cuddle.
But I didn't really.
Anticipate that I would feel socomfortable not being a part of
(19:52):
the freestyle cuddle.
I went into it feeling likeeverybody's gonna be cuddling
and then Krista and I are gonnabe like sitting on the sidelines
holding hands, and feeling theodd people out.
But I didn't feel uncomfortableat all not participating in some
of the larger cuddle groups.
I loved cuddling with youthough, Stella We did have a
nice cuddle.
We did have a nice cuddle.
So I warmed up and I.
(20:14):
felt comfortable cuddling withyou.
I felt like I would feel awkwardall of the time and out of place
all the time, but would say athird of the way into it.
I was like, I feel comfortableand it's not weird for me to sit
here with these.
Boundaries and I can enjoy andshare space with people to my
level of comfort.
Krista (20:32):
Stella, I don't know you.
So I thought it was creepy or itwould be lascivious in some way
I was dismissive and then hadconversations about it, and was
curious and much like L, I washappy to know my boundaries.
(20:53):
Reinforced my sense of self.
I knew what I wanted and what Ididn't want, and I had no
problem putting that boundary upand keeping that boundary.
I never felt like I had to, givesomeone what they wanted over
what I needed.
So that felt really good.
It's like I really know myself.
And that's, of course, taken alot of work and a long time.
(21:15):
I didn't feel the need to bepart of a bigger cuddle group
that just didn't feel safe orinviting or interesting to me.
Had I been there with a bunch ofmy friends, I probably would
have done that.
But I know I need that level ofintimacy or closeness or
connection.
But I did do more than I thoughtI would do.
(21:36):
There was a moment where you hadus lay our heads on someone
else's belly.
And then someone would lay theirhead on our belly.
And that melted me.
And what came through was thissense of humanity and me of Oh,
we're all just.
Human and trying to connect andunderstand.
(21:58):
And it really opened my heart.
And as soon as my heart wasopen, then everything felt
different.
And I was far more willing.
and able to connect Onegentleman asked if he could hold
my hand.
And I'm telling you, if he'ddone that, like 10 minutes
before this heart opening, Iwould have said no.
And then I was like, oh yeah,you can hold my hand.
(22:19):
Why not?
Yeah, hold my hand.
And then he asked if he couldtouch my foot and I was like,
oh, that's so sweet.
Yeah.
Touch my foot.
and then I got to a point whereI was like, does anyone else
want to come and touch me?
Does anyone else want to rub myfeet?
Then I was in So yeah, it was areally interesting unraveling or
opening that I feel like wasdone very organically.
(22:40):
Hence, your ability to createthat space.
So thank you.
Stella (22:43):
I love that.
El (22:45):
I will second that.
What did you call it?
Was it like stomach Tetris orsomething like that where we
like the belly laughing?
Stella (22:52):
Oh, yeah, that we did some lattice or something
because it looks like a
El (22:56):
lattice.
Yeah, that was a fantasticicebreaker because it wasn't
intimidating for me, not a bigdeal to have somebody's head
laying on my stomach and for meto be laying my head on somebody
else's stomach.
And I thought it was a nice wayto relax into things.
And also that physicality ofhaving a weight on your belly as
you're breathing, theresomething grounding about it and
(23:16):
for our listeners, anytimesomebody touches you in the
cuddle class, they need to askfor your consent just to speak
about some of the guidelineslike you say, Stella, everything
is G rated.
A six year old could walk in andwe wouldn't have to adjust
anything.
There's, nothing sexual aboutit.
Krista (23:34):
That's what got me I thought.
Oh, So this is safe.
That was my selling point.
Stella (23:39):
Yeah, there's no assumptions about who we can
touch or how we can touch them,even L if like we were holding
hands and I, Naturally wanted tostack my leg on top of yours
maybe that would just naturallyhappen.
But, it's to ask, it's not toassume, right?
It's to make sure that everysingle touch is intentional,
(24:00):
that we do have a hell yes toit.
And that if it's a maybe, it's ano.
And if it's a no, it's a no.
So anything short of a hell yes.
Is a no and to make sure thatwe're not operating off of
assumptions.
I'm curious, how has thischanged, in your own life about
assumptions for a hug?
(24:21):
Outside of the class.
El (24:23):
One thing that came to me is I'm super comfortable giving and
receiving hugs especially in ourcommunity, we work in holistic
fields.
And so a lot of people hug forgreeting and in the beginning
exercises, I realized I'm prettymuch comfortable hugging almost
anybody but there is, for me, acomfort level with, how long
that hug sustains.
It's definitely made mesensitive about people who might
(24:45):
not want a hug.
And not that I go around huggingeverybody, but I think, asking
people if they are okay to hug.
One of my big takeaways wasnoticing the difference between
pushing my comfort level, whichthis definitely did versus
crossing a boundary.
Krista (25:01):
How do you know when you cross a boundary?
What is your telltale sign foryourself?
El (25:06):
Oh, that I retract and I just don't want it.
I might not say that, but I'mlike that inside.
I'm like a little five year oldinside no, I don't want that.
I don't like it.
Stella (25:14):
Yeah, usually when a boundary is crossed or something
that we don't want, our bodyimmediately knows, there's a
contraction.
And with what you said earlier,Krista, about you felt your
heart opening and you felt safe.
To be able to let go and trustthat experience like our body
knows right you immediately feelit And so I love that this
(25:37):
cuddle class gives us anopportunity to really get in
touch with our bodies becausethe body always knows first and
Really trust what it's signalingto us
Krista (25:49):
yeah.
Stella, who would this class notbe good for?
Stella (25:54):
That's a good question.
I guess it wouldn't be good forsomebody who is not open to
experiencing somethingdifferent.
Krista (26:04):
What about people with any kind of like physical trauma
or sexual trauma?
Because I could imagine thatthis would be a beautiful way to
come back into their body, healparts of them that may have
been.
Talk about boundaries crossed.
So do you recommend it forpeople with, those types of
traumas?
Can you speak to that at all?
Stella (26:24):
That's a great question.
And in particular, for my cuddleclasses that I host and
facilitate it is specifically tohelp people with boundaries,
with consent, being consentinformed, being able to
communicate their wants anddesires.
This class is therapeutic innature, and it's not intended
(26:45):
for healing.
That you may have your ownhealing, or that a healing may
occur, but the purpose of it isfor betterment.
practicing and building ourconsent and communication and
boundaries.
So that's how I differentiate.
Healing versus beingtherapeutic,
Krista (27:03):
beautiful.
And then there is an intakeform, if I remember.
And do you ask any of thesequestions on that intake form,
just so that you're informedabout what you may encounter?
Stella (27:13):
Yeah.
So there are.
specific questions.
Not so much about what are youhealing, but do you have any
pain?
And that's a very generalquestion, that people can either
share if it's physical pain,emotional pain, any sort of
difficulties that they're goingthrough in their life, if
they're willing to be open andsharing that I do take a look.
(27:34):
At that to make sure thatwhoever is coming can feel
supported and be aware of wherepeople are mentally and
physically,
El (27:41):
you also make it quite clear that it's not a place where you
pick up people to date.
It's not a dating service,definitely helps with the safe
environment.
Stella (27:50):
I want to make things explicit and that's why I have
these specific questions on theintake form, just so people
know, that this is a safe spaceit is platonic and that if
anybody has, any sort of notionthat they can ask someone out on
a date or that they're goingthere for that reason that's not
(28:10):
tolerated.
So I have these guidelines tomake sure that we're all on the
same page that somebody hasactually read that and they
check off.
Yes, I understand.
So that's just really importantto me so that in creating the
safe container, it begins beforewe actually come in person
together,
Krista (28:29):
because I'm sure there are groups of people that get
together for different reasons.
That does exist in the world.
So to differentiate yourselffrom that and say, we are not
that I think is reallyimportant.
So people don't get confused.
You're talking about orgies,aren't you, Krista?
Yes, we got to wrap up because Igot you guys.
Yes, that's exactly what I'mtalking about.
(28:50):
No, there's all kinds of playencounters and sexual
exploration.
El (28:58):
Let's touch on that real quick because when it is
balanced and when there isconsent, that's all very
healthy.
It's just that cuddle class isnot one of those things.
Krista (29:07):
So people know what they're, what they're signing up
for.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then Stella, tell us wheredoes cuddle class come from?
What are the origins of this todevelop this?
I'm guessing it's from the1920s.
Just kidding.
I
Stella (29:25):
think it might be, no.
Jean Frazblau is actually thecreator of the Cuddle Sanctuary
who certifies cuddle experts andtrains people to lead these
classes and she's based in LosAngeles.
It's an ongoing training thatshe does and, like you said, I
(29:46):
think it's wonderful work thatrestores faith in humanity and
after every cuddle class, that'sexactly how I feel.
Krista (29:55):
And what are some of the things you learned in your
training that you didn't know?
Going in what are some of yourbig takeaways from your
training?
Stella (30:04):
I would say, the training is very thorough and
there is a code of ethics, forthe trainers.
And how we conduct ourselves andhow do we create an environment
that does feel safe, wherepeople feel like they can choose
in any moment, the autonomy thatthey have in every moment during
the class to be able to expressthemselves.
(30:26):
And yeah, I think the trust andthe safety is the most important
component.
Krista (30:33):
What do you think of the psychology behind it?
Because I was left with almost adeficit.
After the class, it's like mybody yearned for that again, but
almost a false economy Becausethat wasn't real in my life.
Those weren't people that Icould call tomorrow and go, hang
out with again.
(30:54):
And one of the gentlemen that Ipartnered up with.
I found attractive.
So it was an interesting thingto let an attractive man rub my
head and rub my shoulders andthen walk away from it.
So the psychology behind thatwas interesting to me because my
body didn't know that thiswasn't something that I might be
interested in continuing.
(31:14):
Does that make sense?
Stella (31:15):
So your body wanted more of it, but mentally you were
telling yourself this isn'treally in my life.
This was just something Iexperienced.
And so I
had to kill myself.
Yeah.
It's like I opened.
I don't know.
Do you?
We have a cuddle community and aWhatsApp group where I do
encourage people to join so thatyou can have your spontaneous
(31:35):
cuddles if you wanted to.
And people have been gettingtogether.
So maybe you need to join thatgroup.
Krista (31:42):
I'll be under the umbrella of this is just a
cuddle versus.
I wouldn't date this person ortake it any further.
Does that make sense?
Yeah So I think
Stella (31:53):
that's also a distinction.
Two things like first there issuch a thing as the oxytocin
high which is the hormone thatmakes us feel connected and
loved and so the come down ofthat
Krista (32:05):
and not the next hit felt a little jarring actually
to me.
I remember exactly the next dayFeeling like I was in a deficit
is the best way I can put it,
Stella (32:18):
that is such a great way of putting it.
And what we encourage people todo the next day is to really
take it easy, like to really dothings that really nourish you,
nourish your body, whatever thatmay be like taking a walk or
hike in nature going dancingwhatever that may be.
So that oxytocin high that youare feeling can ride itself out
(32:40):
through maybe something elsethat you can nurture yourself
with, but there isn't that dropthat sudden deficit that you're
talking about, but that is socommon.
Krista (32:50):
Yeah.
And then psychologically, I havethis handsome man with his arms
around me rubbing my head.
I'm like, are we on a date rightnow?
Is this my boyfriend?
Are we getting coffee after thisYou go through these mental
things in your mind.
How could you not?
We're human, right?
That was just really interestingto me, too.
Stella (33:07):
And I think that's also a really great point is can we
have these beautiful experiencesof relating to another person
where we do feel like we've hadan intimate emotional connection
without attachment, right?
That does this need to lead toanother thing?
The second thing that I want tomake a distinction about is yes,
the purpose is not to come to acuddle class to find a date.
(33:30):
But if a connection has beenmade, then I would, love for
people to connect, to be able topractice your yes, your no, we
are in a community where we canspeak honestly, where we can
speak honestly.
Speak truthfully.
And so if an authenticconnection has been made, I
think it would be wonderful forpeople to say, Hey, I really
(33:52):
felt like I connected with you.
Would you be open to keeping intouch?
If that's really what's desiredand then for that person to be
able to say, yes, I would loveto, or no, I'm not really
feeling it.
I love the connection here.
And this is where I want to keepit,
Krista (34:07):
that actually helps a lot because I didn't know that.
But knowing that now that feelsfar more organic to the whole
process that it could, if bothparties feel the need, it could
develop into something.
Cause to me, it was likeopening, this whole metaphor
stuff.
And then it's like, boosh, thedoor just slammed shut.
(34:28):
And that was jarring for me thatfelt like, what did I do?
And why did I do that?
Why did I let this all open upin me?
If it was just going to beslammed shut
Stella (34:36):
Great point.
So what do you think could havehelped is there something that I
could have said or somethingthat could have been guided at
the end when we're closing tosay something if you've made a
connection?
Krista (34:49):
I guess I didn't know the full rules.
So that's on me.
But also it's, I think apersonal thing too.
My own experience of opening upand then really seeing Okay, I
need more of this in my life.
I need more of a road to travelso that this can stay open.
So I think it's myresponsibility, not yours, if
(35:13):
that makes sense.
Stella (35:15):
Yeah, I hear you.
And I also want to make sure asa facilitator that I do make the
expectations clear and that ifthere can be some guidance in
fully supporting somebody'sfullest experience with that
whole process, because like yousaid, there is an opening,
right?
So I don't want people to beleft hanging with what to do
(35:35):
with that.
Or if they really do want toconnect with somebody but feel
like there's a rule there whereit's off limits.
And so if there is a trueconnection I would love for that
connection to be able tocontinue,
Krista (35:46):
Even just and pardon me if you do mention this and I
didn't hear you, but talkingabout the oxytocin, Tosin coming
down from that and what you cando and how you can support
yourself.
That's huge because ultimatelythat's a lot of what it is right
to come down.
And a lot of people that aregoing there don't have an
oxytocin exchange at home.
So that's where the disconnectis.
(36:09):
I think that's incrediblyvaluable too talk about
Stella (36:13):
yeah, absolutely.
I usually do.
I can't remember if I did withthis one.
And that's why I do say there'sa WhatsApp group, but I might
have missed it.
But I do appreciate you sayingthis because it is really
important because it's all partof the process and and saying
that I'm curious, it sounds likewith that oxytocin drop or that
experience of feeling thedepletion.
(36:36):
Yeah what is it that you realizethat you may need more of in
your life
Krista (36:42):
a puppy Someone went and got a puppy
Stella (36:52):
Yeah, just got her.
Krista (36:53):
I was I was fostering puppies and I've been looking
for a puppy, but I finally foundmy puppy two weeks ago.
So I'm all good now, but thatwas shortly after cuddle class
that you found him, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think it opened my heart,right?
I lost my dog a year ago and itjust was, ouchy.
But yeah, good point.
(37:14):
Yeah, I'm sure.
It was like, all right, I'mready.
All jokes aside.
oh, and I got back on datingapps.
Two double whammy.
Amazing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Good for you.
Oh my God.
Talk about a major heart openinga little bit.
Stella, you got my heart allopen.
Stella (37:34):
I actually started these classes for to help people
experience themselves indifferent contexts and how to
relate.
And so Misfits in Love is acommunity for people who are
exploring anything outside ofmonogamy or anything if you
didn't want to label it anythingthat is fulfilling for you,
basically designingrelationships.
(37:55):
Wow.
So that you're not justoperating by default.
Krista (37:57):
Is that couples of therapy, individual therapy?
Is it a group thing?
What is
Stella (38:02):
it?
It's a group community.
And then I also have coachedindividuals and couples and
being able to redesign andredefine their relationships so
that it can be more meaningfulfor them.
Krista (38:13):
It's coming together, a communal.
Stella (38:17):
So the community itself we do social things together.
It's what motivated me to dothese cuddle classes was because
of this group that I started tohelp them have different
experiences, like experiencingthemselves in a different
context and how they want torelate.
And then it expanded outside ofmy Misfits in Love group where I
(38:38):
promoted is Sex Positive LosAngeles and also the Bloom
Community and then CuddleSanctuary.
What was the other one?
Bloom Community?
Bloom Community.
Yeah.
And that's actually a place,it's an app where you can go for
dating, where you can go forevents, where you can find
community.
(38:59):
That's amazing.
Look at you.
Changing the world.
So another place for you guys toexplore, maybe.
It's all sex positive kinkfriendly anyone who is exploring
BDSM um, LGBTQ friendly, all ofthese communities where we get
to explore who we are what'sauthentic to us, what's most
(39:22):
fulfilling to us.
El (39:24):
Beautiful.
Yeah, I would like to wrap upwith talking about oxytocin and
the benefits of touch and someof the physiological benefits of
touch Because I feel touch is asense that often gets
overlooked.
Stella (39:37):
Yes, absolutely.
When you asked earlier, who thisclass is for, what's coming to
mind is well, if your lovelanguage is physical touch,
you're probably going to come tothis class.
We all need, touch of some kind,right?
Babies can't survive withouttouch.
Such a good point.
Yeah.
The other thing is that, there'sa co regulation that happens.
(39:57):
And Krista, when you and Elle,talked about laying on each
other's bellies and how thatbegan to help you melt and
really help you to feel safe andmore open, even the breathing
that we're feeling with thisperson, right?
Our head is on their belly,we're feeling their rhythm.
Somebody else is on our belly.
(40:19):
They're feeling our rhythm.
What tends to happen is we areco regulating.
And we begin to breathe.
Very similarly, we begin tobreathe at a rate that matches
each other and everything justslows down, everything relaxes,
(40:39):
and our parasympathetic system,kicks in where we are able to
relax.
We're able to not be in ourstressful fight or flight modes
and as we relax, the oxytocinstarts to build, as we're
connecting with each other, aswe're laughing as we are getting
(41:01):
squeezed, sandwiched in a spoondrawer we can feel high from it,
right?
We can feel like we're floatyblissful.
We're feeling soft feeling veryreceptive your heart is opening
that's the oxytocin high.
One last question is coming upfor me.
(41:21):
Can I ask it?
Of course.
I'm curious how Or if you'vetaken any of the cuddle
positions or any of the cuddleconcepts into your own life?
Krista (41:32):
I'm single I don't know that would apply to me, but Elle
what have you and Gabe got upto?
El (41:36):
Oh
my god.
I don't know that we'vespecifically done any of the
cuddle positions.
One thing that I did find is over COVID, we started holding
hands again we've been togetherfor 13 years.
And at some point in therelationship, we just stopped
holding hands but over COVID thelast couple of years, that's
(41:59):
come back into our relationship,which is really nice.
I can't say that I specificallybrought in anything from the
cuddle class, but it was justsuper insightful for me to be
going through and reallyobservant of how do I feel about
this person touching me?
How do I feel about touchingthis situation?
That's really what I broughtwith me, but maybe I'll have him
(42:20):
lay on my stomach tonight.
Calm me down a little bit.
Yeah,
Krista (42:26):
I didn't learn positions that I would have not thought of
that I will want to implementinto my next relationship.
And even the innocence of them,of, being in contact and not
having all contact have to be asexual thing or sensual thing,
when we were kids, me and myfriends were so tactile and we'd
(42:48):
lay on each other and put ourarms around each other or hold
hands, you know, we were just ineach other's, space.
I think that as we get older,touch becomes a sexual thing and
to not have, both aspects of it,neutral, sexual, all in between,
we're robbing ourselves.
So to make it playful, to makeit fun, to make it relaxing to
(43:11):
make it nurturing, all of thosethings matter so much and are
nutritive.
And we need to really thinkabout them full scope versus
just I'm going to do this thingwhich initiates sex and, have
almost like a routine apatterning that, you can fall
into.
So I learned that like, Oh, Iwant to sit like this with
someone that I like, or I wantto take this home.
(43:33):
I want to take this back into myworld.
Beautiful.
El (43:38):
if you could let us know where people can find you, got a
lot going on.
Yeah, that sort of thing, howpeople can get in touch with
you.
Stella (43:47):
Yes, so you can go to my website, thestellarlife.
com, and that's where you canfind events that are happening.
We're experimenting now, sothere's a cuddle class.
And then there's the Cuddle Lab.
And so Cuddle Class is foranyone who hasn't attended a
class before that wants toexperience a Cuddle Class.
(44:07):
And then the Cuddle Lab is goingto be for people like you! Who
has experienced a Cuddle Classbefore, wants to dive right into
cuddling.
We dive right into the CuddleLab so that, you can have four
hours straight of that oxytocinmagic carpet, right?
El (44:26):
Amazing.
Thank you so much.
I think what you do is unique.
It's very special, and it's veryneeded by so many people.
And the way you present it makesit really accessible and
challenging to a degree that isstill comfortable for people
like me and Krista to attend.
And push our comfort level alittle bit, but maintain our
(44:49):
boundaries.
Krista (44:51):
Yeah.
To pioneer anything is a hugeundertaking.
It's Really impressive whatyou've created in the world and
what you do for other people andfor yourself as well.
Having led the charge right todevelop these aspects of
yourself and explore them andunderstand them and then to
teach others.
It's beautiful So thank you.
Stella (45:11):
Thank you.
I so appreciate you too.
Thanks for having me on yourpodcast.
So much.
El (45:17):
We really appreciate it.
Krista (45:19):
We're big fans, Dallas, so thank you.
Stella (45:21):
Thank you.
I hope to see you at Kettleagain.
Krista (45:27):
Thank you for joining us for this episode of The
Beginner's Guide to the ThirdEye.
For more information about theshow, visit our website
Beginners guide to the thirdeye.com.
For show inquiries, email us atGuide to the Third i@gmail.com
and visit the shop page on ourwebsite to find many of the
products suggested by ourpractitioners and participants.
(45:49):
And if you would be so kind,please leave a review and follow
us on your go to podcastplatform as it helps build our
audience.
Thank you.
See you soon.
Our head is on their belly, we're feeling their
rhythm.
Somebody else is on our belly.
They're feeling our rhythm.
What tends to happen is we areco regulating.
And we begin to breathe.
Very similarly, we begin tobreathe at a rate that matches
(00:26):
each other and everything justslows down, everything relaxes,
and our parasympathetic system,kicks in where we are able to
relax.
We're able to not be in ourstressful fight or flight modes
and as we relax, the oxytocinstarts to build, as we're
(00:49):
connecting with each other, aswe're laughing as we are getting
squeezed, sandwiched we can feelhigh from it, right?
We can feel like we're floatyblissful.
We're feeling soft feeling veryreceptive, your heart is
opening.
That's the oxytocin high.
Krista (01:09):
Welcome to the Beginner's Guide to the Third
Eye, the podcast that delvesinto the profound realms of
spiritual experiences, exploringthe dedicated practitioners and
various modalities that guide uson our transformative path.
Together, we will explore themystical, the magical, the
enlightened, and the sacred.
(01:30):
In each episode, we pairseasoned practitioners,
spiritual experiences, orhealing modalities, and a
willing participant to sharetheir experience in working
together.
We will explore the uniqueinsights, stories, and wisdom
gained from their own profoundjourneys, unveiling the
extraordinary narratives thatshape spiritual seekers and
(01:51):
practitioners alike.
My name is Krista Rauschenbergand my work as a healer has
emerged from hundreds of hoursof certified training, spiritual
initiations, direct experience,and deep personal work.
I have been employed in thehealing arts as a postpartum
doula, an advanced Akashicreader, an Akashic breathwork
practitioner, and a writer.
(02:13):
Facilitating and educatingpeople through their personal,
spiritual, and healing journeysis my greatest source of
happiness.
El (02:20):
And I'm Elle Larson.
I use sound and space to helpbalance internal and external
environments.
I've practiced holistic healingmodalities for over 20 years,
and my work includes Tibetanbull sound healing, feng shui,
reiki, and shamanism.
Krista (02:33):
Welcome once again to The Beginner's Guide to the
Third Eye where we demystify themystical.
El (02:40):
In this episode, we dive into the sense of touch and
explore how cuddle classes arerevolutionizing the way we
connect with others andourselves The simple yet
profound act of platonic touchin a safe, supportive
environment can help supportpersonal growth, emotional
healing, and provide a deepsense of community.
Our practitioner today is StellaChung, a love and intimacy coach
(03:03):
who helps you intuitivelyconnect with your mind and body
to access your innate wisdom andbe more authentically self
expressed she has over 20 yearsof experience teaching yoga,
meditation, and shamanism, andis also trained in conflict
resolution as a certifiedmediator and coach.
She creates and facilitatesexperiential events that defy
conventional social constructswhere you feel safe to step
(03:26):
outside of your comfort zone anddiscover your potential for love
and connection.
And, our willing participantsare, us! When I brought up the
idea of a cuddle class, bothKrista and I shied away from it,
or rather rejected the idea,which meant that it was probably
a good thing for us to do.
Join us as we explore theholistic benefits of platonic
touch, uncover the sciencebehind cuddling, and meet the
(03:48):
inspiring individual spreadingwarmth and kindness through this
remarkable practice.
So Stella, can you tell us alittle bit about your
background?
What other modalities you'vestudied and what led you to
this?
Stella (03:59):
Yes.
So it's been a journey I'm sureyou guys know, it's one thing
leads to another.
My background is in the healingarts with yoga, mindfulness,
meditation, a lot of somaticwork, dance and shamanism.
And I'm also a certifiedmediator.
And over the years, just forthese different practices and
(04:19):
connecting to myself, helpingothers to connect, I've To their
bodies to their truth.
It has led me to knowing anddiscovering that I really have a
love for facilitating connectionbetween people, whether that is
in conversation, whether that'sinteraction in how we relate to
people.
And so it has led me to creatingthis community.
(04:42):
called Misfits in Love, where itis about relationships, and it's
about discovering, what is mostfulfilling for you, and what
that looks like, because what'smodeled for us is only one
model, right?
It's heteronormative, monogamy,and it's like, what are the
options outside of that, ifpeople are looking at what is
fulfilling, or even not puttinga label on it?
(05:02):
So this led me to doingexperiential workshops,
experiential classes, wherepeople can actually experience
for themselves how they like torelate and how they like to
interact with people and to beable to connect in a way that
feels meaningful.
So that's really the crux of mywork.
Krista (05:20):
That's fascinating.
What type of I was going to sayeducation.
Is it an educational background?
How do you study for somethinglike this
Stella (05:28):
It's been cumulative over the years just accumulating
knowledge and Putting piecestogether and I guess We're
always our own guinea pig rightand what we do or what we teach
is what we need most And comingfrom a family where I didn't
really feel like there was true,deep connection, that's what
(05:48):
I've longed for in my own lifeand in my own relationships.
It also comes from I reallydon't like small talk, and so
how do I, relate to people whenI first meet them in a deeper
way.
What kinds of questions can Iask that will foster a deeper
connection and faster?
So I like to do that not justfor myself, but to be able to
facilitate that for groupsettings as well.
(06:09):
Mediation training helps withfacilitation, but I also went to
facilitation school anddiscovered how to create,
whether it's 10 or 100 peopleand how you can create intimacy
even in a large group that youdo feel like you're making
deeper connection it wasactually during COVID that I was
(06:31):
able to grow my community, usingfacilitation exercises, these
different ways of helping peopleto connect online.
I think it's really powerfulknowing how to, Facilitate
connection whether it's onlineor in person with a community or
with groups, because it reallydoes work Things that are
(06:52):
facilitated or guided in a waythat feels intentional, where
our time.
Getting there and being spentthere feels like it's well used.
Krista (07:01):
Amen.
It's so courageous what you do.
I think it takes such courage tobe vulnerable to bridge those
uncomfortable gaps and bringpeople together and bypass all
of their own, either socialanxiety or personal anxiety to
just go in and take themforward.
I think as a facilitator musttake a lot of courage.
Stella (07:23):
Thank you.
I was going to say, I can bereally socially awkward.
And so maybe that helps mysocial awkwardness.
But knowing what it feels liketo be on that receiving end of
showing up to a place and reallynot knowing anyone or not
knowing where to start.
I think it just really helpspeople to have a place to start,
you know.
Krista (07:41):
Anytime I go to just a party, They always seem so empty
to me It's like, can we dosomething can this be a game
night or can we go do anactivity or something?
So I'll put myself in charge ofsomething just so that I have
some function in thatenvironment.
Yeah.
I can relate.
That's really anxiety.
Yeah.
El (08:00):
I have a little bit of the same thing I feel really
comfortable in a situation andreally comfortable talking to
people that I don't know whenit's something that I'm a part
of or I'm hosting, a sound bath,super comfortable, talking to
people who have come in.
But when it's a situation whereit's not in my domain I'm not
the one that's going to go upand introduce myself to somebody
that I don't know.
So then yes, I would be, butthere's a lot of people out
(08:22):
there like that.
There's a lot of people outthere who are comfortable just
like, Oh, Hey, so and my name iswhatever.
And Stella, you don't strike meas the type to be.
Socially anxious because itseems like you do everything
with ease.
But then again, this is yourdomain and you're the one
facilitating it.
So do you notice that kind ofshift as well?
(08:45):
If it's something that you'rehosting and something that you
feel, you've got to absolutely,
Stella (08:51):
yes, because when I'm hosting, it's like, wherever it
is, it's like I'm welcoming theminto my home, right?
That's how it feels.
And I want people to walk infeeling safe, feeling
comfortable, knowing what toexpect.
If it was me going to an eventwhere I didn't know anybody, I
might just be a fly on the wall,or depending on my mood or who's
(09:12):
there.
So yeah, it was very different.
El (09:16):
Okay, so we're about to head into cuddle class.
How are you feeling?
I'm nervous.
Nervous how?
I don't know.
I don't really like peopletouching me.
Strangers.
Yeah, and I'm not sure what toexpect.
But I also know because I feelthis way, it's probably good for
us to be doing this.
Do you feel the same way?
Krista (09:35):
I don't want to do this and I don't do Know who?
comes to these kinds of things.
What are we getting ourselvesinto?
But it's something that I havesuch a big aversion to is
probably going to have a reallygood outcome.
But I don't want to be here.
It's not that I don't want to behere.
It's just I just don't wantanyone to touch me.
And I want to be put in aposition where I'm going to have
(09:56):
to do something that I don'twant to do.
And I don't want to Get in thethings like group pressure I'm
not a joiner of anything I'llstay on the outside in the
lodge.
Yeah, but I'll stay here.
Okay, so I don't know what'sgonna happen.
El (10:08):
The one thing is that I trust the facilitator
implicitly.
You know her, she knows herreally well, I don't know
Krista (10:13):
her,
El (10:14):
So at least I have that, so I don't want to blame you.
And then I
Krista (10:17):
trust
El (10:17):
you,
Krista (10:18):
One removed.
I'm going in.
Yeah, we're going in.
Alright.
Anyway.
Bye! See I have to say walkinginto this.
experience.
You held such a safe, warmwelcoming home for us to relax
into.
So I felt really safe walking inthat didn't help my anxiety of
(10:40):
what was about to come, but atleast there was that.
Invitation to relax.
And I thought it would beinteresting.
I felt safe with you.
I guess is my point.
Oh,
Stella (10:50):
That just warms my heart hearing that.
Thank you for sharing that.
Can you describe to us a littlebit Stella?
What is a cuddle class?
Oh, that is a there's so manylayers to it.
I would love to ask you thatquestion.
I would say The first thing Isay is that it is an
(11:11):
experiential class with platonictouch with no strings attached.
There's complete autonomy forevery person and choosing what's
right for them in every singlemoment.
And it's about being able toclearly communicate Your yes and
(11:34):
your nose and being able to sayno without guilt.
So I say it's a, class aboutbeing able to communicate your
needs and your desires and beable to express your boundaries.
That's what it's really about.
It's a class about thatdisguised as a cuddle, so I
(11:57):
think there's so many lifelessons that can be learned
within a cuddle class that are alittle unexpected.
El (12:08):
Yeah, I would definitely agree with that.
I think it was really importanthow you started the class out
with us just getting into ourbodies and walking around the
room and doing some stretching.
That was just a very solitaryactivity within the group and it
helped us begin to engage withthe energy of the other people
in the room, but mostimportantly, like engaging with
(12:28):
our own bodies and how we feltand then there were these
practices around consent andasking and receiving consent or
saying no or no, thank you.
And I thought that was reallyimportant and super valuable.
One of the things that I walkedout of the class saying was if
everybody had some of thoseconsent exercises, there could
(12:50):
potentially be, less trauma inthe world because not only
people feeling comfortablesaying no or giving an
alternative no, I'm notcomfortable with that, but we
can do this instead.
And most importantly, feelingokay.
hearing no.
One thing that you mentioned isno is not a rejection.
Can you talk a little bit moreabout that aspect of the class?
(13:12):
Sure.
I think that's one of the keyparts.
That a significant part ofcuddle class and being able to
say no and reframing it even forourselves and how we hear a no
because, we're conditioned tothink that a no is a rejection
(13:33):
and we might take it personally.
So to be able to bring the nointo a different light, into a
different way of thinking aboutit as Oh, that person is taking
care of themselves or I'm sayingno, because that's not what I
want right now.
And I'm taking care of myself.
It's also thinking about how ifI can trust your no, then I can
(13:56):
trust your yes.
Because I think as women, we aretaught and conditioned to be
agreeable, to accommodate, Igrew up being a people pleaser.
And so it's saying yes toeverything, or, if I Don't say
yes, being afraid, the fear oflosing this person's love or
losing this friendship orwhatever.
(14:17):
It might be a threat, right?
It could be a threat to somesort of love that I am wanting
to keep or to keep theconnection.
Being able to say no is superpowerful because then it begins
to create the trust that we canreally Be honest with each other
that we do respect each otherenough to be honest To be
(14:38):
authentic and to say the hardthings even if it is hard and
what creates true intimacy isbeing able to Be open and being
able to really express what'strue for you.
Krista (14:51):
And so that's how you started our class.
I'm guessing you start everyclass that way by teaching us
the rules where you pair us upand then someone will ask to hug
us, let's say, and then we'remade to say no to practice
saying no, regardless of what wefelt in that moment.
And it sets it up.
So everyone has that experienceof what it's like.
(15:12):
And then you're giving uspermission to do that throughout
the rest of the class.
So it sets a foundation that wehave a choice.
Stella (15:19):
Yes, absolutely.
That every person has a choicein any moment.
I'm curious what it was like forthe two of you to say no and to
receive a no.
El (15:29):
It was wonderful to have that groundwork laid and being
like, okay it's good to say no,it's okay to say no.
For me that felt reallycomfortable.
It made me feel more safe in thespot.
And I thought it was also reallyimportant how you instructed on
saying no, you could give analternative do you want to hug?
No, but I'm okay.
Shaking hands but then alsoreceiving that.
(15:49):
No when I said no, thank youwas, oh, well, you know, I'm,
I'm happy that you're takingcare of yourself or, thank you
for taking care of yourselfwhich.
Is really affirming.
It's like that person issupporting my decision instead
of feeling put out by mydecision.
Stella (16:04):
Yes.
I love how you put thatsupporting your decision.
And it doesn't necessarily meanthat's the end of the
conversation, right?
You can negotiate.
El (16:15):
That make you feel Krista?
Krista (16:16):
I was very happy for it.
I said no a lot.
It took me a while to warm up.
My guard was very much up.
So to have that as an option,having no idea what we were
getting into, Oh, okay, I don'thave to do any of this.
I wasn't ready to reallyparticipate.
I didn't want to engage.
So it helped a lot.
Stella (16:37):
I was going to say I just want to acknowledge the two
of you it does take a lot offreaking courage to come to a
cuddle class to not know what ishappening.
Because even just the name cansound weird, right?
What is a cuddle class?
I don't want to be aroundcreeps.
I don't want to be touched bycreeps.
Krista (16:53):
Why are we going to a sex party?
We talked about it after, Iwould have never gone without
Elle or a friend.
The people that came on theirown, hats off.
My goodness.
Amazing.
Stella (17:06):
Yes.
Absolutely.
Yes.
And it's so normal.
The way you guys described howyou felt is totally how others
feel.
Like it's so normal.
It's what most people feel like.
It would be weird for them tonot feel that.
Krista (17:21):
Of course, right?
Yeah.
El (17:22):
So what type of people do seek out a cuddle class?
Who is your audience?
Stella (17:26):
That's a good question.
It's usually people who havefelt isolated, I think, as the
pandemic ends, or they're stillfeeling effects of the isolation
from the pandemic.
They are living alone.
They're not in a relationship.
There is no family.
They could be in a relationshipwhere there is not a lot of
(17:48):
touch going on.
Their partner may not beinterested in touch so they're
getting a need.
Met and fulfilled by coming to aplatonic touch class.
Krista (18:01):
We saw that there's a community people that have
continued to come back and had arelationship already formed.
So they knew what they werecoming for.
They knew what they were comingto get, and they dove right in
and didn't waste any time, whichI thought was fascinating.
Stella (18:17):
Yeah, people do get to know each other through the
cuddle community and They dojust come, dive right in and to
a spoon train and to a bear den,all of those cuddle positions
that we like they were gettingtheir medicine.
And they wanted it.
Yes.
Yes.
(18:38):
I think, people who are wantingto connect.
In a different way to experiencethemselves in a different
context might seek out anexperience like this, out of
curiosity.
Krista (18:49):
It's almost like training ground, right?
Come do it in this platonic safeenvironment and then you can
apply what you learned out inyour world, in your life, in
your relationships.
And like anything with morepractice, you get better, you
get more comfortable withasking, even with the actual
contact or touch.
Stella (19:09):
Yes.
A question is popping up in mymind.
Am I able to ask?
For sure, please.
So I'm curious, when you heardCuddle Class, what was your
first impression?
Like what images, what feelingsor words came to mind about it?
And what was your impressionafter?
El (19:29):
I was imagining the freestyle cuddle.
Because you're involved and Iknow you and I trust you.
I knew that there would be ahigh level of ethics to it and a
high level of integrity to it.
But I pretty much imagined whatwas going on in the freestyle
cuddle.
But I didn't really.
Anticipate that I would feel socomfortable not being a part of
(19:52):
the freestyle cuddle.
I went into it feeling likeeverybody's gonna be cuddling
and then Krista and I are gonnabe like sitting on the sidelines
holding hands, and feeling theodd people out.
But I didn't feel uncomfortableat all not participating in some
of the larger cuddle groups.
I loved cuddling with youthough, Stella We did have a
nice cuddle.
We did have a nice cuddle.
So I warmed up and I.
(20:14):
felt comfortable cuddling withyou.
I felt like I would feel awkwardall of the time and out of place
all the time, but would say athird of the way into it.
I was like, I feel comfortableand it's not weird for me to sit
here with these.
Boundaries and I can enjoy andshare space with people to my
level of comfort.
Krista (20:32):
Stella, I don't know you.
So I thought it was creepy or itwould be lascivious in some way
I was dismissive and then hadconversations about it, and was
curious and much like L, I washappy to know my boundaries.
(20:53):
Reinforced my sense of self.
I knew what I wanted and what Ididn't want, and I had no
problem putting that boundary upand keeping that boundary.
I never felt like I had to, givesomeone what they wanted over
what I needed.
So that felt really good.
It's like I really know myself.
And that's, of course, taken alot of work and a long time.
(21:15):
I didn't feel the need to bepart of a bigger cuddle group
that just didn't feel safe orinviting or interesting to me.
Had I been there with a bunch ofmy friends, I probably would
have done that.
But I know I need that level ofintimacy or closeness or
connection.
But I did do more than I thoughtI would do.
(21:36):
There was a moment where you hadus lay our heads on someone
else's belly.
And then someone would lay theirhead on our belly.
And that melted me.
And what came through was thissense of humanity and me of Oh,
we're all just.
Human and trying to connect andunderstand.
(21:58):
And it really opened my heart.
And as soon as my heart wasopen, then everything felt
different.
And I was far more willing.
and able to connect Onegentleman asked if he could hold
my hand.
And I'm telling you, if he'ddone that, like 10 minutes
before this heart opening, Iwould have said no.
And then I was like, oh yeah,you can hold my hand.
(22:19):
Why not?
Yeah, hold my hand.
And then he asked if he couldtouch my foot and I was like,
oh, that's so sweet.
Yeah.
Touch my foot.
and then I got to a point whereI was like, does anyone else
want to come and touch me?
Does anyone else want to rub myfeet?
Then I was in So yeah, it was areally interesting unraveling or
opening that I feel like wasdone very organically.
(22:40):
Hence, your ability to createthat space.
So thank you.
Stella (22:43):
I love that.
El (22:45):
I will second that.
What did you call it?
Was it like stomach Tetris orsomething like that where we
like the belly laughing?
Stella (22:52):
Oh, yeah, that we did some lattice or something
because it looks like a
El (22:56):
lattice.
Yeah, that was a fantasticicebreaker because it wasn't
intimidating for me, not a bigdeal to have somebody's head
laying on my stomach and for meto be laying my head on somebody
else's stomach.
And I thought it was a nice wayto relax into things.
And also that physicality ofhaving a weight on your belly as
you're breathing, theresomething grounding about it and
(23:16):
for our listeners, anytimesomebody touches you in the
cuddle class, they need to askfor your consent just to speak
about some of the guidelineslike you say, Stella, everything
is G rated.
A six year old could walk in andwe wouldn't have to adjust
anything.
There's, nothing sexual aboutit.
Krista (23:34):
That's what got me I thought.
Oh, So this is safe.
That was my selling point.
Stella (23:39):
Yeah, there's no assumptions about who we can
touch or how we can touch them,even L if like we were holding
hands and I, Naturally wanted tostack my leg on top of yours
maybe that would just naturallyhappen.
But, it's to ask, it's not toassume, right?
It's to make sure that everysingle touch is intentional,
(24:00):
that we do have a hell yes toit.
And that if it's a maybe, it's ano.
And if it's a no, it's a no.
So anything short of a hell yes.
Is a no and to make sure thatwe're not operating off of
assumptions.
I'm curious, how has thischanged, in your own life about
assumptions for a hug?
(24:21):
Outside of the class.
El (24:23):
One thing that came to me is I'm super comfortable giving and
receiving hugs especially in ourcommunity, we work in holistic
fields.
And so a lot of people hug forgreeting and in the beginning
exercises, I realized I'm prettymuch comfortable hugging almost
anybody but there is, for me, acomfort level with, how long
that hug sustains.
It's definitely made mesensitive about people who might
(24:45):
not want a hug.
And not that I go around huggingeverybody, but I think, asking
people if they are okay to hug.
One of my big takeaways wasnoticing the difference between
pushing my comfort level, whichthis definitely did versus
crossing a boundary.
Krista (25:01):
How do you know when you cross a boundary?
What is your telltale sign foryourself?
El (25:06):
Oh, that I retract and I just don't want it.
I might not say that, but I'mlike that inside.
I'm like a little five year oldinside no, I don't want that.
I don't like it.
Stella (25:14):
Yeah, usually when a boundary is crossed or something
that we don't want, our bodyimmediately knows, there's a
contraction.
And with what you said earlier,Krista, about you felt your
heart opening and you felt safe.
To be able to let go and trustthat experience like our body
knows right you immediately feelit And so I love that this
(25:37):
cuddle class gives us anopportunity to really get in
touch with our bodies becausethe body always knows first and
Really trust what it's signalingto us
Krista (25:49):
yeah.
Stella, who would this class notbe good for?
Stella (25:54):
That's a good question.
I guess it wouldn't be good forsomebody who is not open to
experiencing somethingdifferent.
Krista (26:04):
What about people with any kind of like physical trauma
or sexual trauma?
Because I could imagine thatthis would be a beautiful way to
come back into their body, healparts of them that may have
been.
Talk about boundaries crossed.
So do you recommend it forpeople with, those types of
traumas?
Can you speak to that at all?
Stella (26:24):
That's a great question.
And in particular, for my cuddleclasses that I host and
facilitate it is specifically tohelp people with boundaries,
with consent, being consentinformed, being able to
communicate their wants anddesires.
This class is therapeutic innature, and it's not intended
(26:45):
for healing.
That you may have your ownhealing, or that a healing may
occur, but the purpose of it isfor betterment.
practicing and building ourconsent and communication and
boundaries.
So that's how I differentiate.
Healing versus beingtherapeutic,
Krista (27:03):
beautiful.
And then there is an intakeform, if I remember.
And do you ask any of thesequestions on that intake form,
just so that you're informedabout what you may encounter?
Stella (27:13):
Yeah.
So there are.
specific questions.
Not so much about what are youhealing, but do you have any
pain?
And that's a very generalquestion, that people can either
share if it's physical pain,emotional pain, any sort of
difficulties that they're goingthrough in their life, if
they're willing to be open andsharing that I do take a look.
(27:34):
At that to make sure thatwhoever is coming can feel
supported and be aware of wherepeople are mentally and
physically,
El (27:41):
you also make it quite clear that it's not a place where you
pick up people to date.
It's not a dating service,definitely helps with the safe
environment.
Stella (27:50):
I want to make things explicit and that's why I have
these specific questions on theintake form, just so people
know, that this is a safe spaceit is platonic and that if
anybody has, any sort of notionthat they can ask someone out on
a date or that they're goingthere for that reason that's not
(28:10):
tolerated.
So I have these guidelines tomake sure that we're all on the
same page that somebody hasactually read that and they
check off.
Yes, I understand.
So that's just really importantto me so that in creating the
safe container, it begins beforewe actually come in person
together,
Krista (28:29):
because I'm sure there are groups of people that get
together for different reasons.
That does exist in the world.
So to differentiate yourselffrom that and say, we are not
that I think is reallyimportant.
So people don't get confused.
You're talking about orgies,aren't you, Krista?
Yes, we got to wrap up because Igot you guys.
Yes, that's exactly what I'mtalking about.
(28:50):
No, there's all kinds of playencounters and sexual
exploration.
El (28:58):
Let's touch on that real quick because when it is
balanced and when there isconsent, that's all very
healthy.
It's just that cuddle class isnot one of those things.
Krista (29:07):
So people know what they're, what they're signing up
for.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then Stella, tell us wheredoes cuddle class come from?
What are the origins of this todevelop this?
I'm guessing it's from the1920s.
Just kidding.
I
Stella (29:25):
think it might be, no.
Jean Frazblau is actually thecreator of the Cuddle Sanctuary
who certifies cuddle experts andtrains people to lead these
classes and she's based in LosAngeles.
It's an ongoing training thatshe does and, like you said, I
(29:46):
think it's wonderful work thatrestores faith in humanity and
after every cuddle class, that'sexactly how I feel.
Krista (29:55):
And what are some of the things you learned in your
training that you didn't know?
Going in what are some of yourbig takeaways from your
training?
Stella (30:04):
I would say, the training is very thorough and
there is a code of ethics, forthe trainers.
And how we conduct ourselves andhow do we create an environment
that does feel safe, wherepeople feel like they can choose
in any moment, the autonomy thatthey have in every moment during
the class to be able to expressthemselves.
(30:26):
And yeah, I think the trust andthe safety is the most important
component.
Krista (30:33):
What do you think of the psychology behind it?
Because I was left with almost adeficit.
After the class, it's like mybody yearned for that again, but
almost a false economy Becausethat wasn't real in my life.
Those weren't people that Icould call tomorrow and go, hang
out with again.
(30:54):
And one of the gentlemen that Ipartnered up with.
I found attractive.
So it was an interesting thingto let an attractive man rub my
head and rub my shoulders andthen walk away from it.
So the psychology behind thatwas interesting to me because my
body didn't know that thiswasn't something that I might be
interested in continuing.
(31:14):
Does that make sense?
Stella (31:15):
So your body wanted more of it, but mentally you were
telling yourself this isn'treally in my life.
This was just something Iexperienced.
And so I
had to kill myself.
Yeah.
It's like I opened.
I don't know.
Do you?
We have a cuddle community and aWhatsApp group where I do
encourage people to join so thatyou can have your spontaneous
(31:35):
cuddles if you wanted to.
And people have been gettingtogether.
So maybe you need to join thatgroup.
Krista (31:42):
I'll be under the umbrella of this is just a
cuddle versus.
I wouldn't date this person ortake it any further.
Does that make sense?
Yeah So I think
Stella (31:53):
that's also a distinction.
Two things like first there issuch a thing as the oxytocin
high which is the hormone thatmakes us feel connected and
loved and so the come down ofthat
Krista (32:05):
and not the next hit felt a little jarring actually
to me.
I remember exactly the next dayFeeling like I was in a deficit
is the best way I can put it,
Stella (32:18):
that is such a great way of putting it.
And what we encourage people todo the next day is to really
take it easy, like to really dothings that really nourish you,
nourish your body, whatever thatmay be like taking a walk or
hike in nature going dancingwhatever that may be.
So that oxytocin high that youare feeling can ride itself out
(32:40):
through maybe something elsethat you can nurture yourself
with, but there isn't that dropthat sudden deficit that you're
talking about, but that is socommon.
Krista (32:50):
Yeah.
And then psychologically, I havethis handsome man with his arms
around me rubbing my head.
I'm like, are we on a date rightnow?
Is this my boyfriend?
Are we getting coffee after thisYou go through these mental
things in your mind.
How could you not?
We're human, right?
That was just really interestingto me, too.
Stella (33:07):
And I think that's also a really great point is can we
have these beautiful experiencesof relating to another person
where we do feel like we've hadan intimate emotional connection
without attachment, right?
That does this need to lead toanother thing?
The second thing that I want tomake a distinction about is yes,
the purpose is not to come to acuddle class to find a date.
(33:30):
But if a connection has beenmade, then I would, love for
people to connect, to be able topractice your yes, your no, we
are in a community where we canspeak honestly, where we can
speak honestly.
Speak truthfully.
And so if an authenticconnection has been made, I
think it would be wonderful forpeople to say, Hey, I really
(33:52):
felt like I connected with you.
Would you be open to keeping intouch?
If that's really what's desiredand then for that person to be
able to say, yes, I would loveto, or no, I'm not really
feeling it.
I love the connection here.
And this is where I want to keepit,
Krista (34:07):
that actually helps a lot because I didn't know that.
But knowing that now that feelsfar more organic to the whole
process that it could, if bothparties feel the need, it could
develop into something.
Cause to me, it was likeopening, this whole metaphor
stuff.
And then it's like, boosh, thedoor just slammed shut.
(34:28):
And that was jarring for me thatfelt like, what did I do?
And why did I do that?
Why did I let this all open upin me?
If it was just going to beslammed shut
Stella (34:36):
Great point.
So what do you think could havehelped is there something that I
could have said or somethingthat could have been guided at
the end when we're closing tosay something if you've made a
connection?
Krista (34:49):
I guess I didn't know the full rules.
So that's on me.
But also it's, I think apersonal thing too.
My own experience of opening upand then really seeing Okay, I
need more of this in my life.
I need more of a road to travelso that this can stay open.
So I think it's myresponsibility, not yours, if
(35:13):
that makes sense.
Stella (35:15):
Yeah, I hear you.
And I also want to make sure asa facilitator that I do make the
expectations clear and that ifthere can be some guidance in
fully supporting somebody'sfullest experience with that
whole process, because like yousaid, there is an opening,
right?
So I don't want people to beleft hanging with what to do
(35:35):
with that.
Or if they really do want toconnect with somebody but feel
like there's a rule there whereit's off limits.
And so if there is a trueconnection I would love for that
connection to be able tocontinue,
Krista (35:46):
Even just and pardon me if you do mention this and I
didn't hear you, but talkingabout the oxytocin, Tosin coming
down from that and what you cando and how you can support
yourself.
That's huge because ultimatelythat's a lot of what it is right
to come down.
And a lot of people that aregoing there don't have an
oxytocin exchange at home.
So that's where the disconnectis.
(36:09):
I think that's incrediblyvaluable too talk about
Stella (36:13):
yeah, absolutely.
I usually do.
I can't remember if I did withthis one.
And that's why I do say there'sa WhatsApp group, but I might
have missed it.
But I do appreciate you sayingthis because it is really
important because it's all partof the process and and saying
that I'm curious, it sounds likewith that oxytocin drop or that
experience of feeling thedepletion.
(36:36):
Yeah what is it that you realizethat you may need more of in
your life
Krista (36:42):
a puppy Someone went and got a puppy
Stella (36:52):
Yeah, just got her.
Krista (36:53):
I was I was fostering puppies and I've been looking
for a puppy, but I finally foundmy puppy two weeks ago.
So I'm all good now, but thatwas shortly after cuddle class
that you found him, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think it opened my heart,right?
I lost my dog a year ago and itjust was, ouchy.
But yeah, good point.
(37:14):
Yeah, I'm sure.
It was like, all right, I'mready.
All jokes aside.
oh, and I got back on datingapps.
Two double whammy.
Amazing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Good for you.
Oh my God.
Talk about a major heart openinga little bit.
Stella, you got my heart allopen.
Stella (37:34):
I actually started these classes for to help people
experience themselves indifferent contexts and how to
relate.
And so Misfits in Love is acommunity for people who are
exploring anything outside ofmonogamy or anything if you
didn't want to label it anythingthat is fulfilling for you,
basically designingrelationships.
(37:55):
Wow.
So that you're not justoperating by default.
Krista (37:57):
Is that couples of therapy, individual therapy?
Is it a group thing?
What is
Stella (38:02):
it?
It's a group community.
And then I also have coachedindividuals and couples and
being able to redesign andredefine their relationships so
that it can be more meaningfulfor them.
Krista (38:13):
It's coming together, a communal.
Stella (38:17):
So the community itself we do social things together.
It's what motivated me to dothese cuddle classes was because
of this group that I started tohelp them have different
experiences, like experiencingthemselves in a different
context and how they want torelate.
And then it expanded outside ofmy Misfits in Love group where I
(38:38):
promoted is Sex Positive LosAngeles and also the Bloom
Community and then CuddleSanctuary.
What was the other one?
Bloom Community?
Bloom Community.
Yeah.
And that's actually a place,it's an app where you can go for
dating, where you can go forevents, where you can find
community.
(38:59):
That's amazing.
Look at you.
Changing the world.
So another place for you guys toexplore, maybe.
It's all sex positive kinkfriendly anyone who is exploring
BDSM um, LGBTQ friendly, all ofthese communities where we get
to explore who we are what'sauthentic to us, what's most
(39:22):
fulfilling to us.
El (39:24):
Beautiful.
Yeah, I would like to wrap upwith talking about oxytocin and
the benefits of touch and someof the physiological benefits of
touch Because I feel touch is asense that often gets
overlooked.
Stella (39:37):
Yes, absolutely.
When you asked earlier, who thisclass is for, what's coming to
mind is well, if your lovelanguage is physical touch,
you're probably going to come tothis class.
We all need, touch of some kind,right?
Babies can't survive withouttouch.
Such a good point.
Yeah.
The other thing is that, there'sa co regulation that happens.
(39:57):
And Krista, when you and Elle,talked about laying on each
other's bellies and how thatbegan to help you melt and
really help you to feel safe andmore open, even the breathing
that we're feeling with thisperson, right?
Our head is on their belly,we're feeling their rhythm.
Somebody else is on our belly.
(40:19):
They're feeling our rhythm.
What tends to happen is we areco regulating.
And we begin to breathe.
Very similarly, we begin tobreathe at a rate that matches
each other and everything justslows down, everything relaxes,
(40:39):
and our parasympathetic system,kicks in where we are able to
relax.
We're able to not be in ourstressful fight or flight modes
and as we relax, the oxytocinstarts to build, as we're
connecting with each other, aswe're laughing as we are getting
(41:01):
squeezed, sandwiched in a spoondrawer we can feel high from it,
right?
We can feel like we're floatyblissful.
We're feeling soft feeling veryreceptive your heart is opening
that's the oxytocin high.
One last question is coming upfor me.
(41:21):
Can I ask it?
Of course.
I'm curious how Or if you'vetaken any of the cuddle
positions or any of the cuddleconcepts into your own life?
Krista (41:32):
I'm single I don't know that would apply to me, but Elle
what have you and Gabe got upto?
El (41:36):
Oh
my god.
I don't know that we'vespecifically done any of the
cuddle positions.
One thing that I did find is over COVID, we started holding
hands again we've been togetherfor 13 years.
And at some point in therelationship, we just stopped
holding hands but over COVID thelast couple of years, that's
(41:59):
come back into our relationship,which is really nice.
I can't say that I specificallybrought in anything from the
cuddle class, but it was justsuper insightful for me to be
going through and reallyobservant of how do I feel about
this person touching me?
How do I feel about touchingthis situation?
That's really what I broughtwith me, but maybe I'll have him
(42:20):
lay on my stomach tonight.
Calm me down a little bit.
Yeah,
Krista (42:26):
I didn't learn positions that I would have not thought of
that I will want to implementinto my next relationship.
And even the innocence of them,of, being in contact and not
having all contact have to be asexual thing or sensual thing,
when we were kids, me and myfriends were so tactile and we'd
(42:48):
lay on each other and put ourarms around each other or hold
hands, you know, we were just ineach other's, space.
I think that as we get older,touch becomes a sexual thing and
to not have, both aspects of it,neutral, sexual, all in between,
we're robbing ourselves.
So to make it playful, to makeit fun, to make it relaxing to
(43:11):
make it nurturing, all of thosethings matter so much and are
nutritive.
And we need to really thinkabout them full scope versus
just I'm going to do this thingwhich initiates sex and, have
almost like a routine apatterning that, you can fall
into.
So I learned that like, Oh, Iwant to sit like this with
someone that I like, or I wantto take this home.
(43:33):
I want to take this back into myworld.
Beautiful.
El (43:38):
if you could let us know where people can find you, got a
lot going on.
Yeah, that sort of thing, howpeople can get in touch with
you.
Stella (43:47):
Yes, so you can go to my website, thestellarlife.
com, and that's where you canfind events that are happening.
We're experimenting now, sothere's a cuddle class.
And then there's the Cuddle Lab.
And so Cuddle Class is foranyone who hasn't attended a
class before that wants toexperience a Cuddle Class.
(44:07):
And then the Cuddle Lab is goingto be for people like you! Who
has experienced a Cuddle Classbefore, wants to dive right into
cuddling.
We dive right into the CuddleLab so that, you can have four
hours straight of that oxytocinmagic carpet, right?
El (44:26):
Amazing.
Thank you so much.
I think what you do is unique.
It's very special, and it's veryneeded by so many people.
And the way you present it makesit really accessible and
challenging to a degree that isstill comfortable for people
like me and Krista to attend.
And push our comfort level alittle bit, but maintain our
(44:49):
boundaries.
Krista (44:51):
Yeah.
To pioneer anything is a hugeundertaking.
It's Really impressive whatyou've created in the world and
what you do for other people andfor yourself as well.
Having led the charge right todevelop these aspects of
yourself and explore them andunderstand them and then to
teach others.
It's beautiful So thank you.
Stella (45:11):
Thank you.
I so appreciate you too.
Thanks for having me on yourpodcast.
So much.
El (45:17):
We really appreciate it.
Krista (45:19):
We're big fans, Dallas, so thank you.
Stella (45:21):
Thank you.
I hope to see you at Kettleagain.
Krista (45:27):
Thank you for joining us for this episode of The
Beginner's Guide to the ThirdEye.
For more information about theshow, visit our website
Beginners guide to the thirdeye.com.
For show inquiries, email us atGuide to the Third i@gmail.com
and visit the shop page on ourwebsite to find many of the
products suggested by ourpractitioners and participants.
(45:49):
And if you would be so kind,please leave a review and follow
us on your go to podcastplatform as it helps build our
audience.
Thank you.
See you soon.
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