Madame du Barry: The Girl from Nothing & Ready for Anything

In this episode, we take you back to the court of Versailles to share the story of Madame du Barry—the last mistress of King Louis XV. Was she truly the frivolous scandal history remembers? Or a woman of surprising wit, charm, and ambition? Pour yourself a glass of something French and let’s dive into the life of this infamous enchantress who found herself both beloved and betrayed by the world’s most glittering court.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hello, and welcome to Beheaded.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
Welcome to season six , episode one.
I'm Megan Moore and I'mElizabeth Black.
Welcome back.
Welcome back everybody.
I hope everyone had a great offseason.
Season six.
That sounds weird, to be honest.
When I was like doing my notesand preparing, I was like, oh, I
can't wait for season five.
I was like we're like in six.

Speaker 1 (00:23):
We're in our sixth year.
We started this in 2019.
Yes, which still feels likethat was only two years ago.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
But think about how much we've gone through since
then the whole COVID thing andjust so much change.
I don't know.
It's just been kind of a wildride and I'm excited everyone's
been with us for it.

Speaker 1 (00:41):
Yeah, my dog excited.
Everyone's been with us for it.
Yeah, like my dog is gettingolder, we're getting older.
We're not getting older.
Speak for yourself.
I missed you, I missed this.
It like felt weirdly comforting, putting everything in place
where it should be.

Speaker 2 (00:57):
Yes, setting up for tonight was a lot of fun.
I came over like super earlytoday because normally we've
told you guys, like we usuallymeet kind of after hours work
and we're usually doing thislate in the night.
I was like I'm getting to yourhouse at like 10 in the morning,
do it?
Yeah, and we're going to.
We'll tell you what we, how weprepped for this episode a
little bit later so we don'tgive it all away up front.

(01:18):
But like we had breakfast, wehad snacks, we had dinner, like
we just ate all day, yeah likemegan, bought these beautiful
little skeleton stemless wineglasses spooky season.

Speaker 1 (01:31):
Spooky season, spooky season yeah, cheers, cheers.

Speaker 2 (01:34):
We caught up on a lot of different things because I
just got back from a big tripwhich we'll talk about.
Yeah, so much has happened Iknow.
So it's just been nice to havethis routine and come back
together and greet you all.

Speaker 1 (01:45):
I had a laugh when Elizabeth walked in my door
because we're wearing like thesame outfit.

Speaker 2 (01:50):
Like the same outfit, like we're both wearing like
kind of baggy denim jeans.

Speaker 3 (01:53):
High-waisted, high-waisted.

Speaker 2 (01:55):
Like, and we're both wearing long black or
long-sleeved black shirts, whichI think that's going to be my
thing this season.
Not to spoil it for y'all I'dnever say y'all, I don't know
why I just went with that.
Just came out, new season, newseason, new me?
Sure?
No, because like last season Iwas like I'm always gonna wear
kind of like a nerdy sweater.
Remember I had, like my sixwives, one and you were

(02:16):
committed adam's family one itwould be 110 degrees.

Speaker 1 (02:19):
Oh yeah, like towards the end of season five, and
she'd be trudging up to my housewearing a black sweatshirt.

Speaker 2 (02:26):
Disneyland sweater.
But this season I think I'mjust going to do all my black
outfits.

Speaker 1 (02:31):
Ooh yeah, can I do that with you why?

Speaker 2 (02:33):
not.
Do you have enough?

Speaker 1 (02:35):
I have this one.
You have 13?
I have, you have 13 blackoutfits?

Speaker 2 (02:38):
At least three.
Okay, are we mourning something?
What are we mourning?
Our past selves, our previouslives.

Speaker 1 (02:45):
Ooh, I don't know, I have to think about that one.

Speaker 2 (02:49):
Halloween's almost over soon.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
I would mourn that for six months this is the best
part of October, mm-hmm,probably, when we we normally
release it on Halloween, don'twe Like the kick of our season?
I wouldn't say.

Speaker 2 (03:01):
Halloween, I would say we usually record like
mid-October and release it midto late.
I don't think we have definitedays.

Speaker 1 (03:08):
Yeah well, it's mid-October.
Right now we can't tie us downlike that you know.

Speaker 2 (03:10):
We don't have a box, we're tied in.

Speaker 1 (03:13):
Right now is the best part of Halloween season
because there's still ample timeto watch all of our favorite
movies.
It's not like it's October 30thwhen I'm like, oh my God, I
have to get in every movie thatI enjoy in the very last day.
Like we can still appreciatethe season and take it in.
We've got like another twoweeks still.
I love that.

(03:33):
It's a good time and I.

Speaker 2 (03:35):
I've decided cause.
I mean, when I was younger andlike first living on my own, I
was very strict about like whenI can celebrate what holidays,
like when my decor goes up andwhatever.
These days I'm like yo, I loveHalloween so much that I don't
want to just October 1st put upmy Halloween decor.
Like absolutely not when do, Ido it.
I do after Labor Day, likeliterally I usually try to.

(03:57):
I look at when Disneyland doesit.
That's my gauge.
That is always a very good meterof when to do things, and if
Disneyland says it's okay to domid-September, I'm doing it
mid-September.

Speaker 1 (04:07):
I don't know.
I was at Target yesterday andthey have Christmas packaging.
That's not no, they have giftbags and Christmas stuff.
I'm like, can we at least get?

Speaker 2 (04:18):
through Halloween.
I'm totally happy to gostraight from Halloween to
Christmas.
Like as soon as November 1strolls around, christmas time.

Speaker 1 (04:29):
But like, as soon as November 1st rolls around,
christmas time.
But like, let Halloween breathe, it needs to breathe.
That's why the Nightmare BeforeChristmas is so genius because
it is the perfect Q4, quarterfour, it encompasses all
celebrations and you can justcarry, you can just keep it
going and play it on repeatevery day.
That's my falling asleep show.
Do you ever have like?

Speaker 2 (04:45):
a go-to.
I used to, but Robbie doesn'tlove having like TV on when we
go to bed.

Speaker 1 (04:51):
You know, so we kind of stopped that Well we don't
have a TV in our bedroom becauseJake likes quiet as well.
But I put it on my littleiPhone and I prop it up and I
like play it next to me.

Speaker 2 (05:02):
That's kind of nice.
Just me go to sleep.
I don't know.
Well, when you and I traveltogether, we do that.
You know like we'll put on likea fun Disney movie to fall
asleep to or to wake up to whilewe're getting ready.

Speaker 1 (05:10):
Yeah, I'm like I love that, but we always theme our
shows, like when we were inLondon we were watching Peter
Pan and but anyway, that's agreat transition.

Speaker 3 (05:21):
So we've been traveling A lot this summer, a
lot, I know.

Speaker 1 (05:25):
Yeah, lots of good stuff.
I started off back in London.
Yeah, doesn't get oldEventually.
I'm just going to let you knowwhen I just don't come back.
I just I can't get enough of it, I love it.

Speaker 2 (05:37):
I think eventually you or I, or both, will have a
place in London.

Speaker 1 (05:46):
Yeah, I will just be place in London.
Yeah, I think that's the goal.
Be bi-coastal.
By what do you call that?
By continental, by continental.
Yeah, um, I went for TaylorSwift, which was shocking.
Shocking.
Um went with, uh, our friendLisa and the husbands came and
her daughter came.
It was really fun actually, andwe were there on the Travis
Kelsey night in London atWembley Stadium last June.
I'm going to have my quickSwifty moment and then I'll move

(06:09):
on, because I know not everyoneis a Swifty.

Speaker 3 (06:12):
Two hours later.

Speaker 1 (06:13):
That'll be.
What I'm mourning is the peoplewho have not embraced their
inner Swifty yet, and I'mactually very anxious because
she's performing for the firsttime right now in Miami as we
speak.

Speaker 2 (06:24):
We delayed recording because there were freak out
moments from me.

Speaker 1 (06:28):
Yeah, and I'm like excited and nervous to have to
go back to see the updates ofwhat I've missed, but anyways,
travis Kelsey was an iconicnight.
If you just say I was thereTravis Kelsey night, that was
the night when Travis came up onstage and Carrie Taylor after
she died after her bigperformance.
It was iconic, it was amazing.

Speaker 3 (06:49):
Very dramatic but of course we saw.

Speaker 2 (06:51):
Really quick.
I just want to piggyback onthat Because I am not a Swifty
per se right, I know, I'vereally been working on it, I
know.

Speaker 1 (06:58):
Unsuccessfully.

Speaker 2 (06:58):
I listen to all of her songs that come out.
I give her a good shot, I giveyou that you do try, but I
follow a lot of sports content.
So I saw like on Instagram thatnext morning like the Travis
Kelsey stuff.
So I was like, oh, travismaking an appearance at T-Swift,
and I immediately texted Megan.
I was like, were you there?

Speaker 1 (07:14):
I was there Like that was your night.
We didn't understand what washappening while it was happening
.
This delay, of like that looksis that?
Is that travis on the stageright?
We had amazing seats it was.

Speaker 2 (07:27):
You took a great video.
We're like you got what's onstage and then you like pan to
dr lisa and her face is like,and her face is just like in
tears, like, is this happening?

Speaker 1 (07:37):
uh, that happened.
But we also did all of ourfavorites tower of london.
Met up with our favorite jamespeacock at Hampton Court Palace.
That was really cool to likeconnect in person and hug each
other after I feel like we'vebeen long distance pen pals and
friends.
Yeah, of course, james Peacockof the Ambulance Society.

(07:58):
And then I got to go toAmsterdam, in Germany, and I
will not reveal too much, butlearned a lot about executions
in Germany and obtained a lot ofcontent and met some
interesting people that I hopewill be.

Speaker 2 (08:20):
I'm revealing too much Featured on our show.
Hopefully, okay.

Speaker 1 (08:23):
Anyways, that was my big to-do of the summer.
I love that.

Speaker 2 (08:27):
And yours was June right.

Speaker 3 (08:29):
When you went Okay.

Speaker 2 (08:30):
So you did that, and then I just got back from
another Europe trip.
So this time I went with mysister and my mom, because I
think I've said this before onthe pod, the pod I like that the
pod we, but uh, pod, I, likethat pod.
We have nicknames now um, backin 2020, like covid times, I

(08:51):
just started randomly learningduolingo french and then my mom
joined me just as like, oh, thisis a fun way to kind of keep in
touch and share our progress.
So for years, my mom and I haveboth been studying french and I
was like you know what, whencovid's over, like I'm gonna
take you to paris and obviouslycovid's now kind of been done
for a while.
But like it took us just manyyears to like actually sync
schedules and figure out whatwould make sense.

(09:12):
It's a big trip.
So we finally picked a day andwe just got back and we did like
.
We flew in um to paris, didabout four days there and then
went south to nice, did a coupledays in Nice, went over to
Monaco, so we stayed in thisbeautiful, beautiful hotel, like
on the shore, um, at MonteCarlo so cool, saw the casino,

(09:34):
all that stuff.
And then our last couple dayswe went over to Italy, we went
to Genoa and finished in Milan.
So it was a beautiful trip.
That's a good trip.
Yeah, it was their first timein Europe, so unfortunately for
me it was very much like doingthe same things I've done.
I've never been to the FrenchRiviera, so that was new for me,
but unfortunately it was alittle cloudy and like rainy.

(09:55):
It's just traveling.

Speaker 1 (09:56):
It's fine, it's perfect yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:57):
I mean, yeah, totally not like a perfect trip.

Speaker 1 (09:59):
Angelina Jolie standing on the cliff like
overlooking.

Speaker 3 (10:03):
Yeah, In the.

Speaker 2 (10:03):
I don't know Very mysterious.

Speaker 1 (10:05):
There was a movie where she did that once.

Speaker 2 (10:07):
I can't think of which one Salt or something like
that.

Speaker 1 (10:09):
No, it was with Brad Pitt.
Anyways, I digress, it doesn'tmatter, mr and Mrs.

Speaker 2 (10:14):
Smith.

Speaker 3 (10:14):
No, anyway.

Speaker 2 (10:17):
But so I did a lot of the stuff I've already done,
like see the Eiffel Tower and goto the Louvre and go to
Versailles, go to Les Procoupeswhich I love that.

Speaker 1 (10:26):
I can't get enough of that cafe.
We will never not If you'reever in Paris Elizabeth told me
about it we went.
The best If you're looking forlike a French traditional fine
dining.

Speaker 2 (10:39):
Fine dining.
It's technically called a cafe.

Speaker 1 (10:41):
It's the oldest cafe in Paris, but it's nice, but
it's the oldest cafe, but it'snice, but it's nice, it's nice.
Yeah, it's like they pull outyour chair, type nice and uh,
it's the oldest restaurant inparis, isn't it?
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (10:51):
cafe.
I mean, I don't know what thedifference right between cafe
and bistro, oldest cafe in paris, and it's amazing yeah.
So we did all of that, which Iwill say.
The only thing that was likedisappointing was the fact that
I went so long ago I was incollege and then to now is just
crazy in terms of liketouristiness.

(11:12):
Like I don't remember standingin a line to get into Versailles
.
I don't remember standing in agiant line to get into the
Louvre, when you already havetickets, like everything was
such a thing like an ordeal andyou had to plan all day just to
go to the Louvre.
It's terrible.

Speaker 1 (11:26):
I don't like that.

Speaker 2 (11:27):
Yeah, I was a little disappointed in that because I
just remember it being like ohyeah, let's go to Versailles on
this day.
Like walk up, get tickets, goin.
It was so crowded it was.
I mean, I've said this before.
You guys know, and I'm tryingto be better about my like
Instagram has killed society,where now people just go to take
a picture of Mona Lisa andleave Like you can't even sit in

(11:50):
front of the Mona Lisa, youcan't even like appreciate the
painting or anything else inthat room for that matter, cause
it's just like.
It's like you're going oryou're exiting a concert.
They just movie along theamount of people.
Yeah, and you don't even see theactual painting cause you're
just looking through your phonelens.
So anyway's my spiel.
But overall, like great, greattime, I'm going to be posting a
lot of content from that trip.
I've already, I've alreadystarted a little bit, um, so

(12:11):
stay tuned for some greatversailles, louvre, blah, blah,
blah content blah, blah blah.

Speaker 1 (12:16):
It's gonna be great.
Blah, blah blah.
Yeah, secrecy.
And then elizabeth and I took atrip together.
We shared.
We shared some on the BeheadedInstagram, but we took a 10-hour
road trip in Annie, my miniCooper, with the Anne Boleyn
license plate, and we drove toUtah and we saw the one and only

(12:37):
Susanna Lipscomb.
We were fangirling, trying notto really trying to be cool
really trying to be chill.
So we went through Author FanTravel.
If you do not know who they are, please go check them out.
You can find them on Instagram.
Like we follow them.
You can find them.

(12:58):
Author Fan Travel.
They, it's a husband-wife team.
They're awesome.
They, it's a husband-wife team.
They're awesome.
They cater these like events,trips, trips, yeah, with our
favorite historians and authors.
So, lucy Worsley, dan Jones Iknow they're doing a Dan Jones
trip.
They did.

Speaker 3 (13:16):
In.

Speaker 1 (13:17):
Italy in 2026.

Speaker 2 (13:18):
Right which we're going to go to we really want to
go to Tudor Trio is likecurrently happening right now
Our buddies over at Tudor Trioand Dr Susanna Lipscomb, which
we weren't quite sure what toexpect, loved it.

Speaker 1 (13:35):
We weren't sure, like , how many people it was going
to be.
It was a two day event,including a dinner and a
workshop, which was so cool,yeah.

Speaker 3 (13:45):
But it was very intimate.

Speaker 1 (13:46):
It was to the point where I don't even want to say I
got comfortable, just chattingwith Susanna by the end of the
weekend, but we were very muchin her presence.

Speaker 2 (13:57):
Well, and I'm happy the way we sat in the room,
because it was a pretty intimateroom.
There was maybe what like 30 ofus.

Speaker 1 (14:03):
I think there was 25.
I counted Okay.

Speaker 2 (14:05):
Yeah, of course you did.

Speaker 1 (14:07):
I was sitting there trying to look like I was
listening.
I'm like come on, two, three,four.

Speaker 2 (14:10):
I tried to look too cool and not look at anybody.
No, but when we first got therethe first day, we went to two
workshops and it was we sat.

Speaker 1 (14:18):
Lectures.

Speaker 2 (14:18):
Lectures.
It was one on witchcraft andone on I'm not going to get it
correct.
Come on come on.
It was the very first one wewent to, right before witchcraft
.
I know it and it's right on thetip of my tongue.
I can see my notes.

Speaker 1 (14:35):
I know there was the Life in London and Shakespeare.

Speaker 2 (14:38):
Which was day two.

Speaker 3 (14:39):
Day two and then the Six Queens and Art, and then the
portraits.

Speaker 2 (14:43):
We're going to remember the first one.

Speaker 3 (14:44):
It was really cool it was a few months ago.

Speaker 2 (14:46):
It was a while ago, but we went and we sat in the
very, very back row because wedidn't want to look overeager,
but we ended up sitting rightnext to the husband and wife
team behind author fan travel.
So we had great conversationswith them throughout the day.
And then the next day me andMegan were like, okay, we're
going to get there early and sitin the front row.
Me and Megan were like, okay,we're going to get there early

(15:08):
and sit in the front row.
So then the next day for theShakespeare and the Six Queens
and Art, like, we sat rightfront row behind her podium Just
staring and just taking it inCommenting.

Speaker 1 (15:17):
I remember to like shut my mouth, like don't be
like catching flies sitting infront.

Speaker 2 (15:22):
Good for you, as I do sometimes and it was great
because in that position, likein between, you know parts where
she would lecture and then wehad to read stuff or whatever.
It was like she would makelittle comments and talk to us
and chit chat.
So we had a lot of chit chatmoments with Susanna.

Speaker 1 (15:38):
We had two, I think, kind of funny moments.
The first was the morning ofbefore any of the lecture
started.
We were going to go down.
There was like a Starbucks.
We're all staying at a hoteltogether.
It was like a Hilton orsomething.
And and we were both, um, wewere both working that day
because we work from home, so wewere like working during the

(15:59):
day, the lectures didn't startuntil that evening and uh, we,
we were going to go run down andget some coffee and I was like,
ooh, I'm like wearing my pajama, hufflepuff shirt and
Elizabeth's, like we're going tobe so fast, like we're just
going to go in, go up, go backto the room, and I was like
joking, like what if this is howwe meet Susanna Lipscomb?

Speaker 3 (16:19):
Right.

Speaker 1 (16:20):
And Elizabeth's just like we're just going to be fast
.

Speaker 2 (16:22):
Like she's not down there, we're not going to meet
her, we're just getting coffee.

Speaker 1 (16:25):
She's not going to be just hanging out at the
Starbucks downstairs in thehotel.

Speaker 3 (16:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (16:30):
And of course I'm wearing my Hufflepuff pajama
shirt and Elizabeth just startshitting me.
She goes, she's just likenodding, like right there, right
there, right there, and I'mjust like, oh my God, I saw the
curls girls.

Speaker 2 (16:43):
I was like that's Dr Tisana Lipscomb right there she
was sitting at the like, I guess, near the coffee shop,
starbucks thing, and like slashthe brunch area with her husband
and her child and just likebeing a mom, like, just like
tending to her child, no, oneelse around knew the like
majesty sitting in theirpresence.

Speaker 3 (17:01):
No one like all the other just hotel goers yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:04):
And we just kind of stared, without trying to stare,
and like our hearts were justbeating so fast, and she's like
what do we do?
I'm like, well, we're not goingto go up to her, megan, wearing
my Hufflepuff pajama shirt.
We can't do anything right now,no, we just have to leave.

Speaker 1 (17:15):
We just have to go.
Yeah, so that happened.
And then I was still the firstday, still very nervous about
the situation of of just meetingsomeone who I feel like I've
just admired for so many years.
She's honestly inspired thispodcast.
I've been a huge follower, ahuge fan, and I'm waiting for
the elevator and the elevatordoors open up and you were alone

(17:38):
at this point, I was alone.
I had to run up to the room togo get something.
Yeah, and she's standing in theelevator just her and I go in
the elevator.
I'm like this is literally likethe elevator just her and I go
in the elevator.
I'm like this is literally likethe elevator pitch moment.
And I noticed like she goes allthe way up to like level 16.
I'm like, oh, and we have sometime together.
I was like right behind rightand the only thing we talked
about was bathroom stalls inamerica have very big gaps.

Speaker 2 (18:03):
Gaps, yeah, in the door hinges I forget how she is,
how she referenced it, butshe's like, she's like.
I don't understand the amountof space like that you put in
between your stoles.
He sounded irish.

Speaker 1 (18:16):
I know I got a little irish there um, no, so my my
first personal interaction withsomeone who I I deeply, deeply
respect was about Americanbathroom structures, and I just
still can't get over it.
It's been a couple months nowand I'm still like reliving it
in my brain.

Speaker 2 (18:35):
It was great and again we were a little
starstruck.
The first day got morecomfortable in the second
because we were sitting in thefront row and by the dinner that
night like we were fully havingconversations with her.

Speaker 1 (18:46):
It was great.

Speaker 2 (18:47):
Well, should we reveal this now?

Speaker 1 (18:50):
No, I don't think so.
Oh no, let's just leave itthere, okay, stay tuned then.
She is aware of the show.
She's aware of the show.
She's aware of the show.
Yes, we're going to leave itthere, okay.
And we got a picture.
Yes, and we got books signed,and we didn't continue talking
about bathroom stalls well, alittle bit a little bit maybe um

(19:11):
.
She was so sweet like amazingthe lectures were amazing, the
workshop, so we did like a twohour.
Oh, it was so cool.
She basically.
It was basically like we weretaking one of her courses, her
classes, and she was teaching uspersonal research?
Yes, it was, and we used a fewpieces of research that she
personally has collected,teaching us as a historian, how
do you pull evidence fromdocuments?

Speaker 2 (19:34):
And just facts and not opinions.
You know, she gave us a pieceof.
It was like a piece ofparchment in French, so first we
had to translate it.
Well, I didn't translate it.

Speaker 1 (19:44):
She translated it.
You and others who knew Frenchwere working through it.

Speaker 2 (19:47):
Yeah.
So you had to translate itdirectly and then talk about
what it could mean.
And she talked about how adifferent book used that as a
source.
But they completely changed themeaning of that one sentence.
And now this new book is likeoh yeah, this is my reference,
this is what the evidence is andwe were like, well, no, it
doesn't even say that You'rejust kind of making a big jump
from A to B.

Speaker 1 (20:09):
So it was really great breaking it down like that
.
Probably the coolest part,though, is as we're
collaborating in little groupsand we're talking about these
pieces, these documents, and shegave some prompt questions to
look into.
She's just casually cruisingaround the room checking in on
people, asking if they havequestions what do you think

(20:30):
about this?
And she did such a good waywhere she never made anybody
feel stupid Not that she everwould, no but we're all
obviously amateurs, we're notprofessional historians, and we
had a good mix in the group of.
Some were teachers, but perhapsyou know not I don't know what
level of education people had,but I felt like there was a lot

(20:50):
more amateurs and just peoplewho are like us interested very
deeply passionate about Tudorhistory and everything that
people would say or suggest.
she would just be like that'sinteresting.
I haven't thought of it likethat.
And it kind of made us feelproud of ourselves, like we know
what we're talking about.

Speaker 2 (21:07):
It really did it kind of made like.
You know, everyone's like, Iguess takes on things very valid
Cause you're like okay, justbecause Susanna interprets it
one way doesn't mean like ourway is different.
And she would say that she'slike I love having these groups
especially seeing like theAmerican perspective, you know,
or like a female versus maleperspective, like or age

(21:29):
perspective, because you get somany different takes on the same
information that it is nice toprocess it all in a group
together, like yeah, we are all,we all are reading the same
things and we're all takingdifferent things away from it,
yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:39):
So it was very fascinating.
It was very interactive, veryengaging.
I think one of my favoriteparts, too, is someone in the
group was like so obviously youaccess these documents because
you are, like, licensed andofficial.

Speaker 3 (21:52):
And you have your PhD .

Speaker 1 (21:53):
Yeah, you're a well-known author, historian,
professor, doctor, right, andyou can get into places like the
British Library and requestdocuments to pull.
He's like so how does someonelike me go and do my own
research?
Yeah, how does someone like mego and do my own research?
Yeah, and she's like well, youcould ask for a reference from
somebody who does have access togive good reason why you, you

(22:14):
can be in there and she'spointing at herself and the
guy's like oh dang, I don't knowanyone, and she's literally
like me like me?
you can ask me email and so Ifelt like that really broke the
ice, when we realized that shewas there to support everybody
in that room with whatever ouragenda was and our motives were
of wanting to learn more abouthistory and why we were there
for her lectures.

(22:34):
But she was just so real aboutit.

Speaker 3 (22:37):
She's so real.

Speaker 1 (22:38):
She's like you're talking to me, just ask me.
He's like okay, I didn'trealize we had that type of
relationship.
He's like I will ask you, I'llsend you an email.

Speaker 3 (22:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:48):
Yeah, anyways, every single thing that people say
about her being the nicest,sweetest woman ever is 1,000%
true.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:56):
Amazing time and we will be going on more of those
trips with author fan travel sogood.
Oh, that was a lot to catch upon.

Speaker 1 (23:02):
I was going to say we're like a quarter of the way
into the show.

Speaker 2 (23:04):
I know that was long, but it was so important to
recap all of that because we hada really full summer and now
we're back for season six.
We've got a great lineup thisseason and we're so excited to
kick off with another FrenchRevolution episode.
I know we ended last seasonwith French Revolution.

Speaker 1 (23:20):
I was thinking that we're just kind of like
continuing on.
Like get them all out of theway.
Yeah, just kidding like getthem all out of the way yeah,
honestly, we don't want to get I

Speaker 2 (23:26):
just read these two books that megan gave me both
for christmas.
Um, I read them both and like,well, I'm still working on the
marie antoinette's head.
I got like less than 100 pagesleft but like I'm very much in
this world like fresh offversailles, like fresh you just
came out of paris yeah, likereading two marie antoinette
books, like I am so ready.
Revolution episode.

Speaker 1 (23:47):
Yeah, so we're kicking it off.
We ended season five with KingLouis XVI's sister, elizabeth,
elizabeth, and now we're goingto move on to Madame du Barry,
interesting woman, verysalacious, controversial figure
of the French Revolution.

Speaker 2 (24:06):
Very fun, I know.
And so we're just going to diveright into early life with
Megan.
I am doing early life.
I love when Megan does earlylife.

Speaker 1 (24:15):
Hi, it's Megan Jean Beaucoup Comptis.
Are you speaking English?
No, I'm speaking French.
Oh, continue, isn't that hername?
Yeah, all right, madame duberrywas not always called madame
duberry.

(24:36):
Perfect, great way to start hername was, was it?

Speaker 2 (24:40):
was it jean or jean?
I mean, I think we can justcall her Jean because we're
American.
That sounds so American.
I don't like it.
Call her Jean.

Speaker 1 (24:47):
Jean, jean, jean, j-e-a-n-n-e, jean.

Speaker 2 (24:54):
Just call her Jean.
Jean is going to get hard.

Speaker 1 (24:57):
Jeannie was born on August 19th 1743, and she did
not start off in a nice cushy.
She had no silver spoon in hermouth.
Let's put it that way.
Yes, she was bornillegitimately, um to ann the
coup, who was a 30 year oldseamstress, and we don't know

(25:17):
who her father is.
There is speculation he mayhave been a friar slash cook, um
, but she was a.
Her mother did not settle downbefore giving birth, right, and
she luckily though her motherdid was taken in by someone

(25:38):
named.
I'm going to ruin all thesenames.
Do you want to just say all thenames in French for me?

Speaker 2 (25:41):
Okay, so she had a brief tryst, a lover who was
named Monsieur Billiard deMonceau.
Thank you, I think that's howyou say it.

Speaker 3 (25:49):
De Monceau.

Speaker 2 (25:50):
We did see a different spelling of this name
in a documentary, so we're goingto call him de Monceau.

Speaker 1 (25:55):
Well, this man offered to take in Anne and her
daughter Jean, and eventually,as she starts growing up, she
becomes a cook for his mistress,and really he gives them—.

Speaker 2 (26:05):
Anne becomes the cook , so Dewberry's mother.

Speaker 1 (26:08):
Oh, I thought Jean was also like worked as a cook
for a hot minute?

Speaker 2 (26:12):
No, not yet.
Okay, mm-hmm.

Speaker 1 (26:15):
And she actually works to get an education and
all of that, which is prettygood considering she's not
coming from a whole bunch.
They send her off to a coven toget her education.
What?

Speaker 2 (26:26):
They send her to a coven of witches.

Speaker 1 (26:27):
her education what they sent her to a coven of
witches.
What do you call it?
A convent?

Speaker 2 (26:31):
Oh, I wrote coven, I would love if they just send her
off with the witches A convent.

Speaker 1 (26:37):
Yes, of nuns, yes, very different.
They educated her, but when shewas 15 years old she left.
So we saw some versions whereperhaps she got kicked out.
Because what one take on it?

Speaker 2 (26:49):
because we did watch the gene dewberry movie with
johnny depp which we'll talkabout amazing movie definitely
highly recommend in that version.

Speaker 1 (26:58):
who knows how true it is.
They caught her reading someerotic literature because she
had a very healthy sexualappetite, sure, and she got
kicked out.
Yes, either way, she leftMm-hmm.
She goes back to join hermother, but eventually they also
get evicted from the household.
Yeah, she just kind of like herwhole upbringing is just kind
of getting bounced around fromjob and home to home.

Speaker 2 (27:21):
Well, and the take in the movie Jean du Barry like
the.

Speaker 3 (27:26):
You said Jean, I don't know say it fast, so I
don't really know what.

Speaker 2 (27:28):
Jean du barry jean du barry, yeah, um, but so in the
movie it kind of shows the theum monsieur of the household,
monsieur billiard uh de monceau,like it shows him having a very
innocent relationship with herwhen she's young and then when
she comes back from the convent,obviously she's 15.
She's looking a little bitolder and more mature.

(27:49):
She's reading the eroticliterature, evidently so the
wife starts to get suspicious oftheir relationship.
So, whether or not anythingever happened, or he's just
being kind of a loving fatherfigure, like they say in the
movie, at least that's thereason why her and her mother
were evicted from the household.

Speaker 3 (28:03):
I mean it's a good reason it's a good Hollywood
story, right.

Speaker 1 (28:12):
Maybe.
Yeah, it's a good story to makeout of it.
Eventually, she becomes anassistant to a hairdresser,
which is kind of like cool andtrendy for her in her teenage
years.
I like that and she has a briefrelationship with this guy.
That seems to be the commontheme here.
Yes, eventually she becomes areader and a companion to an old
widow, which seems like a nice,comfortable place to be.
However, the widow believedthat she drew too much attention

(28:36):
to her sons and one of theirwives.

Speaker 2 (28:39):
Yeah, the movie's take on it was that they had a
kind of little menage a troisorgy type thing Menage a trois.

Speaker 1 (28:46):
But it wasn't just trois.
I'm working on my French aswell.

Speaker 2 (28:50):
Plus de trois.
So I think it was a few peopleinvolved.
At least that's how it waspainted.

Speaker 1 (28:54):
Oh, like an orgy.

Speaker 2 (28:55):
Yeah, that was painted in the movie.
So she was like I can't believe.
I took you in as my companionand then you had a tryst with
both my sons and one of theirwives, like a whole thing Mean,
so kicked her out again forerotic reasons.
Our light turned off.
I realized our light turned off, that's okay.

Speaker 1 (29:11):
I think we look okay, though Sorry, we're talking
about for the video if you're onYouTube, if I ever get it
posted.

Speaker 2 (29:18):
Still waiting on season five, my light burned out
.

Speaker 1 (29:21):
That's okay, that's fine, we're just going to keep
going here.
So, to keep going here.
So she gets kicked out again,she becomes an assistant at
another shop, and you know.

Speaker 2 (29:33):
I feel like she's really trying to settle down and
find her true passion and whatis her career in life.
And really quick in this point.
So she was at a hat maker's, orshe was a hat maker's assistant
, but when she got to the shopshe was what's called a grisette
and I looked into this and agrisette was literally a working
class woman who wore gray likeFontaine.
Yeah, in Les.

Speaker 3 (29:52):
Mis.

Speaker 2 (29:52):
Yeah, exactly.
So it was like that was kind ofthe uniform of like the women
who worked in those types ofshops and they were.
They were fashionable shopsthat like kind of produced they
call them haberdasheries, sothey had sewing supplies, so
like dressmaking items, likebuttons and zippers and ribbons.
It also reminds me of like, uh,pride and prejudice when they

(30:12):
go to that shop and they'relooking at ribbon together.
Oh yeah, it's kind of likethose are like the fashionable
shops of the day, because youdidn't really go and just buy I
don't think gowns, I think youbought no, you bought the fabric
to make it.

Speaker 1 (30:24):
Or it's also in, like um little women, how she wants
to buy the fabric to make it.
Or it's also in, like LittleWomen, how she wants to buy the
fabric to make the dress.

Speaker 2 (30:29):
Right.

Speaker 1 (30:30):
You don't just buy a ready-to-make dress.

Speaker 2 (30:32):
Right, or you can have it fitted for you, but that
was very expensive.
Yeah, like maybe if you were afancy lady, yeah, but you would
make your own dresses, exactly.
So that was kind of how she gotinto a little bit of the more
fashionable side of things, we alittle bit of the more
fashionable side of things.

Speaker 1 (30:48):
We are now at 1763.
She visits, like how youvisited the Monte Carlo Casino.
Yes, she also went to a casino,but it was a casino slash
brothel, yeah, and it kind ofopens up the door.
So I think we know where thisis leading.
The owner of this brothel isJean-Baptiste Duberry, nice.

Speaker 3 (31:09):
Duberry, make note of the name, get it and he likes
what he's seeing.

Speaker 1 (31:13):
He thinks that this is an interesting young woman
who has come into hisestablishment.
She is now 20 years old, yep,and he invites her to be their
newest employee.
And his mistress.
And his mistress yeah, sure,she was employee of the month.
Yeah, at the casino brothel.

Speaker 2 (31:32):
So quickly she turns to this life of like oh, I'm
getting attention from men, I'mgetting money for doing this,
and the head of this wholeoperation likes me specifically.
So she's starting to see herpower over men and at that point
she's called Mademoiselle Lange, so they kind of rebrand her.
She's no longer Jean Bocou, shebecomes Mademoiselle Lange and

(31:53):
within a few years, du Barry,jean Baptiste, he really kind of
helps create her like, helpsform her, I guess,
sophistication.
And she's already well read.
She's already, because of, likeher upbringing and people, kind
of being committed to hereducation.

Speaker 1 (32:09):
Yeah, she was educated, which is nice.

Speaker 2 (32:10):
Yeah, she loved to read, Like she loved to learn
things, she loved to be a partof these very sophisticated
conversations and give heropinions.
So he kind of takes that anduses her like you know her
liveliness and her beauty, andsays like well, look at this
jewel I've created.
So again she's rebranded asmademoiselle lang and she gets
in all of these high societycircles and she starts becoming

(32:33):
a pretty high dollar prostitute,like pretty high, highly
affluent courtesan.
And at this point she's withministers, she's with royal um
courtiers, like she eventuallyis getting to such a status that
they like have to take her toVersailles because they're, like
you have to be with the best ofthe best of society.

Speaker 1 (32:52):
She hit the top tier of her profession.

Speaker 2 (32:54):
Yeah.
So she finally is taken toVersailles and Jean-Baptiste
kind of has an idea in his head.
He's like I think the king justneeds to see you.
We don't need to set up aformal meeting, we don't need to
do anything, but have you inhis presence.
Once he sees you, like he'sgoing to ask to see you again,
which is a lot of presumption,right, Like we don't know the

(33:16):
king's taste, we don't know muchabout him.
We just know that she's apretty woman and so far everyone
seems to like her.

Speaker 1 (33:22):
And she was said to be very pretty.
I know they typically depicther with brown hair, but in what
we read she had blonde hair.

Speaker 2 (33:32):
And again with hair dyes and stuff.
You don't know really what'strue.

Speaker 1 (33:36):
Or not dyes, but they would always do powder and
everything else.

Speaker 2 (33:39):
So I'm not sure.
It said again in some of thearticles that she had blonde
ringlets with blue eyes, butoftentimes she's depicted as
brunette.
So we're not really sure whatshe looked like and portraits
always show just the same grayhair up, do yeah, honestly I.

Speaker 1 (33:56):
I think that's hollywood's take to always make
her a brunette because it'sdifferent it's like the yin and
yang and for some reason, theymake her out to be the, the
saucy villain of the right,right, whatever, and that's
always the brunette, you know,as we flip our hair over here.
But yeah, I think like, incontrast to Marie Antoinette,
it's the complete opposite ofher.

Speaker 2 (34:17):
And I hate to say it, and we said this with the
Elizabeth of France episode, buta lot of their portraits look
strikingly similar.
Oh God, they all do Like, ifyou see multiple pictures of
Marie Antoinette and multiplepictures of Elizabeth de France
and multiple pictures of Madamedu Barry.
You probably won't know who'swho Like.
If you shuffled a deck of 60cards and there's just three
women, you wouldn't be able toput them in the same piles.

Speaker 1 (34:38):
Not to completely change topics, but that's
actually what we're just goingto keep referencing Susanna
Lipscomb for the rest of ourlives.

Speaker 2 (34:44):
You mean Susie, that we know, susie.

Speaker 1 (34:47):
Susie when her in her lecture about the portraits was
talking about that too, how wekind of assume we know who's who
and when someone has branded aportrait as this is Marie
Antoinette or this is Catherineof Aragon, it sticks to that.
But like, the more as we maturein our discoveries in history,
it's almost embarrassing to haveto go back and be like actually

(35:09):
I don't think that was MarieAntoinette, I think that was.
Elizabeth of France, andsometimes you just stick with it
Like, hey, we've come this far,we're just going to say this is
who this is, but we don'talways know.

Speaker 2 (35:20):
We don't know who's who all the time and you think
like, well, why wouldn't theyjust label every portrait that
was created?
Maybe they did, but againduring French Revolution or
something, maybe peopledestroyed those or burned the
labels or you know, a lot ofthings could have happened to
really like alter the originalpainting or reproduction could
have been made.

Speaker 1 (35:39):
There's a lot of reproductions and they kind of
change, just like all the AnneBoleyn portraits.
They just are always a littlebit different.
I'm making this up.
I don't know if this is real,but I could presume they might
have the names etched on, likethink in Versailles, don't they
have the names on the frames,though?

Speaker 2 (35:55):
But if you take the frame off.
Well, I was going to say, Imean, a lot of things could
happen, Gets mixed up.
Yeah, If I'm a revolutionaryand I hate Miranda and Twinnette
, I'm going to be like you knowwhat?
I'm going to change a portraitor fuck it with this girl who
knows right?
So I'm just saying it's one ofthose things where it's hard to
tell what exactly they look likeA because of fashion and
costumes and wigs and powders,and then B because half of these

(36:17):
portraits again, you can mixall of them up and be like yep
that's.
Marie Antoinette, that's Madamedu Barry.
They kind of all have a similarlook.
They did.
But at this point again, she'staken to Versailles, she's
strategically placed, like inthis hall, where they know the
king is going to.
Be so, sure enough, his gamblekind of paid off because King
Louis XV sees her and says, wow,wow.

Speaker 1 (36:40):
Bring that girl, whoa , bring that girl to my private
apartment.
It's a cartoon character wherethe eyeballs pop, it goes wah,
wah, wah and the tongue flopsout.

Speaker 2 (36:48):
Yeah, yeah.
So he sends for her, like hehas this one very dedicated
valet who he really trusts andhe's like, okay, bring that lady
to me.
And at this moment, his queen,marie and I'm going to say this
last name wrong, but Lazinka.
So Marie, lazinka, she's'sdying, she's a dying queen.

(37:10):
And he's never been faithful tohis queen and wife like he's
philandered their entirerelationship, as a lot of
monarchs do in this era.
Um, but it is a littleinsensitive to kind of bring
like, uh, madame dubarry intothis situation at this time.
I should just call her Jean.

Speaker 1 (37:27):
Still, Poor timing a little bit.

Speaker 2 (37:29):
But he does respectfully once his wife does
die, that's nice of him.
He does respectfully mourn for afew weeks and he has no
mistresses, no affairs.
He's properly mourning his deadwife.
But within a few months he'slike, okay, let's get that girl
back in the mix.
Like, let's bring, stillthinking about her, yeah, let's
bring jean, um.
So at this point it is june 17,uh, 68, and she is let me do

(37:53):
the math 25.
She is, I believe, 20.
I should know this 25.
Yeah, she was born in 43, soshe's 25 at this point, um, and
so they realize, like thatthey're spending a lot of time
together, so much time that thevalet is a little concerned with
how much time they're spendingtogether.
Like, hey, this could be alittle scandalous because

(38:16):
technically she comes fromnothing, she's a nobody.

Speaker 1 (38:19):
Like you can't just bring anyone into versailles not
just a nobody and not just aworking like coming from working
class but coming from a brothelas well.
Yeah, that's pretty scandalousRight.

Speaker 2 (38:29):
So everyone's a little hesitant to be like hey,
like let's not make this womanan official mistress.
Hopefully it's just a passingfling and he's done with her.
But she sticks around.
He really likes her, and notjust as a sexual partner but as
like a companion, like he sayshe wants to see her first thing
in the morning and last thingbefore bed, anytime he's not
doing kingly duties andappearing in court.

(38:51):
He wants to be with her andshe's not allowed at court at
this time because she's nothing,she's no one.

Speaker 1 (38:58):
They keep her hidden.
I could just like be going offof what we have, but I kind of
like I don't know if it's justbecause Johnny Depp played him.
I kind of like I don't know ifit's just because Johnny Depp
played him.
Yeah, I kind of like Louis XV.
He's growing on me.
Oh no, you hated him.
I used to hate him.
What was the one that we did?
The episode where the guy triedto stab him just a little bit?
Wasn't that Louis XV?
Oh, crap.

Speaker 2 (39:19):
I think it was.

Speaker 1 (39:21):
Francois Damian, damian, I think it was Damian.
I had to re-look at that, butI'm pretty sure it was yeah,
yeah yeah, I thought he was sucha weirdo, so, and just to like,
I do personally get confused.

Speaker 2 (39:33):
So just to get everyone straight here, do you
want me to look at the notes.

Speaker 1 (39:35):
Considering you have the same notebook for the past
six years, I'm sure it's inthere.
Guys, I'm finally on my lastpage of this notebook.
It's.

Speaker 2 (39:44):
I will try not to make noise while you do your
spiel.

Speaker 1 (39:46):
Just for background, if anyone else gets confused
like I do King Louis XV is LouisXVI's grandfather, not his
father.

Speaker 2 (39:58):
Louis XV only had daughters, so the monarchy
skipped over that level oflineage and when we talked about
the aunties in our last episodeat the season finale.
The aunties are Louis XV'sdaughters.
So they're kind of a littleclicky, bitter like crop.

Speaker 1 (40:13):
Pickle with a tackle.
Let me talk about that.
You don't do that again.
And so Louis XVI is who ismarried to Marie Antoinette.
Yes, so just to kind of likeget that in your brain of that's
his grandfather.

Speaker 2 (40:30):
And yes, it was King Louis XV that was almost
assassinated by Robert FrancoisDamien Robert.

Speaker 1 (40:36):
Francois Damien Nice I remember that.

Speaker 2 (40:39):
I do remember that, but I wasn't sure which king I
don't remember a lot of thingsGood for you.

Speaker 1 (40:44):
But when I do, it's very insignificant and nothing
that anybody needs to know.

Speaker 2 (40:48):
we're gonna create one of those big scary like
sociopath maps that has stringsand pictures and everything and
everyone who's been executed.
No, we're gonna show you howevery episode we've done
connects to each other we coulddo a map.

Speaker 1 (41:02):
It's pretty fascinating oh, we could do a
cool video of like a montage ofa map and then like the dates
and then plug them in on the mapas the years go on.
Yeah, I think I just made alittle project for you.

Speaker 2 (41:18):
Okay, sure, let me get right on that.
All right, sounds good.
So where were we?
Okay?
So at this point, oh, she'sstill a scandal.
We're talking about her lowstatus, right and?
And so King Louis XV is verydesperate to spend more time
with her than he already does.
So what he does is September ofthat same year so we talked

(41:40):
about June, how he was mourningthe queen.
September of that same year, healready is deciding OK, how can
we make this a little morelegit?
So he thinks she needs amarriage to someone who's noble,
so that she can claim morenobility.
She needs a title and she needsa different birth certificate.
Oh, shoot, probably forged.

(42:02):
So what he does is he arrangesa marriage between Jean and the
younger brother of Jean-BaptisteDuberry.
His name is Guillaume Duberry.
Count, count, he's a count.

Speaker 1 (42:15):
You will never hear of this guy ever again.
So put him in your brain andtake him right out.
Throw him out, he's just a prop.

Speaker 2 (42:23):
He's simply there, so she gets the title of like a
countess.
So he's a count, kind of a goodwin for her.
Yeah, she's like whatever man,I just want to be in his palace,
hand her a piece of paper andshe went from like a shop girl
to a prostitute to a countess.

Speaker 1 (42:40):
Yeah, that's a good deal.

Speaker 2 (42:42):
Yeah, it's like if Fontaine ended up in a better
situation.
Yeah, like if Fontaine ended upin a better situation.
Yeah, instead of dying in thestreet, you become a countess.
So she is like, yeah, sure,I'll marry this guy, become
official.
And then they give her a newbirth certificate and in the new
birth certificate they sayshe's three years younger than
she is.
So essentially, instead of 25,she's 22.
Why that matters, I don't know.

(43:02):
She's still like 30 yearsyounger than the king.

Speaker 1 (43:06):
I know.

Speaker 2 (43:08):
Wouldn.
She's still like 30 yearsyounger than the king.
I wouldn't I know like,wouldn't you want to keep her
age?
Maybe they just asked her likehey, what year were you born?
She's, like I don't know.
Put this year like I don't knowwhat.
She didn't know maybe I don'tknow, but they said that she was
three years younger on this newbirth certificate and they also
kind of did this fictitiousnoble descent so like not only
is she now a new, but she alsohas some crazy lineage we've

(43:28):
never heard of.
Wow.
And now she's installed in herofficial apartments at
Versailles.
So that valet I told you aboutthat was super loyal to the king
.
It's his apartments.
Oh, they take away his rooms,aw.
And it's now Madame Duberry's,oh.

Speaker 1 (43:43):
I didn't know that.
Yeah, that's funny, I know.

Speaker 2 (43:45):
But she's still leading a very lonely life Like
yes, she's at court now, yes,she has an apartment, she is an
official mistress, but at thistime she hasn't really been
presented to court, which is abig deal.
As we know, versailles has alot of rituals, a lot of
etiquette.
You can't just.
Why?
Because there's nothing else todo.
No, no, you say the quote oh,this is ridiculous, this is

(44:08):
ridiculous, this is VersaillesIs Versailles, there's just
there's.
There's a lot of things youneed to know.

Speaker 1 (44:16):
There's an SOP, a standard operating process,
indeed With Versailles.
Yeah, sorry, I've been in workmode A little bit of work mode
today.

Speaker 2 (44:27):
But because she hasn't formally been presented
to court, no one from thenobility is allowed to
acknowledge her at all.
So her life hasn't changed thatmuch.
Like yes, she's the mistress,but no one's allowed to say
anything to her.
She probably gets better foodSure.

Speaker 1 (44:43):
I'd agree with that.

Speaker 2 (44:44):
I'm glad you thought of that, Megan Good call.

Speaker 1 (44:46):
Dessert.
She probably never had dessertbefore.

Speaker 2 (44:48):
No, that's a big presumption.
What is this cake?
I've never had cake before.
Tart A macaroon.
So finally, like again, KingLouis XV is always pulling
strings for her.
He really wants to justcontinue to up her status.
So he says, okay, we're goingto formally introduce you to

(45:13):
court, we're going to have thiswhole ceremony.
We need a sponsor for you.
They literally end up likefinding some random courtier
named madame de.
Uh, I wrote that.
You know my tiny handwriting oh, let me.

Speaker 1 (45:18):
This is my favorite game what is elizabeth's?

Speaker 2 (45:22):
writing I think it's a b-E-A-R-N.
I have it for you.
Her name is insignificant.

Speaker 1 (45:30):
She's not insignificant.
Yeah, we don't know her, wedon't care about her sponsor oh.
I can't read mine either.
Yeah, you're not any better.

Speaker 2 (45:40):
I think it's B-E-A-R-N.
Byrne.
All right.
So Madame de Byrne is literallylike bribed to be Madame du
Barry's sponsor for this likepresentation, because Madame de
Berne has racked up all theselike gambling debts.
So they're like hey, well,forgive all your gambling debts.
If you just be this girl'ssponsor, she's like all right, I
mean a girl's got to do what agirl's got to do.

(46:01):
Yeah, so they finally find asponsor and they do this huge
presentation at court on April22nd 1769.

Speaker 1 (46:10):
So she's 26.
Kind of like a debutante.

Speaker 2 (46:11):
Yeah, like a coming out Even though she's 26.
Yeah, much older than you wouldbe at a debutante ball.

Speaker 1 (46:16):
I will say really quickly, though I thought this
was funny, you didn't.
I thought this was funny, whatthat?
It took like three attempts toget this thing to happen.

Speaker 2 (46:23):
Because, because the sponsor kept making excuses.

Speaker 1 (46:25):
Like the sponsor really didn't want to do this,
because it was basically herrepresenting her and endorsing
her and being like I promote andagree that this woman should be
here at court, right, and atthis point people did not agree
with that Right.
The first time she pretended tosprain her ankle and they had to
postpone.
Second time actually was anissue the king broke his arm
going hunting, sorry.
On the chase.
Second time actually was anissue, the king broke his arm

(46:46):
going hunting, sorry.
But like how frustrating forthis, for Du Barry to be like I.
Just every day this goes by Ihave to stay in my rooms.
Can I please be presented Right?
Finally, on the third attempt,it happened.

Speaker 2 (46:58):
It did happen and it happened in the Hall of Mirrors,
which is a beautiful place.
You were just there, I was justthere, hard place to take
pictures and a million people.

Speaker 1 (47:08):
Yeah, there's a lot of people.
There were a lot of people atfirst time that day.
Yeah, they're offices, it's socrowded um, so she finally is
presented.

Speaker 2 (47:16):
She starts to collect a few friends who are a little
bit loyal to her.
Um, honestly, the rest of herentourage is pretty much bribed
because they're just like pleasehang out with this woman like
she needs someone yeah, sheneeds friends, she needs an
entourage.
The king it's the king's willlike it's.
The king desires everyone to benice to her.
So they're again, really, atthis point where they're just
trying to give her everythingthat she can to be comfortable

(47:40):
at court, including they presenther a gift of a little boy from
bengal.
Oh, my goodness, yeah, a little, uh, african boy.
Well, I guess it's south asia.
He's.
He's a black boy, um, but he'sfrom south asia, okay, so he's
essentially like a.
I don't want to call him aslave, she's.
She didn't like to call him aslave, she called him a servant

(48:00):
he was a servant who got there,probably not within his will
yeah, he wasn't brought there.
you didn't just want to go toVersailles, he didn't just go on
a cruise ship and make his wayover to Paris?

Speaker 1 (48:12):
I don't think so.

Speaker 2 (48:13):
He was clearly sold, unfortunately and sadly many
times until he got in thatposition, right, but she did
have great affection for him anddidn't want him to just be like
, you know, for lack of a betterword, terrible word to use but
like pet.
She didn't want to just be like, oh this, like you know, like
servant boy who's with me, howcute.

Speaker 1 (48:31):
Like how exotic he is .

Speaker 2 (48:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (48:33):
He's kind of a spectacle.

Speaker 2 (48:34):
Right.

Speaker 1 (48:35):
It's almost like you have a new flashy handbag, like
that's all it's so terrible tothink of, but that's almost what
it, back in that day, gifted toher as.
But she kind of changed thatmentality of no, he's my
companion.

Speaker 2 (48:48):
He's a person, he's my companion, kind of cute, and
she, yeah, so he's her companionand she shows a lot of
affection to them.
They play often and sheprovides them with an education.
Yeah, you know.
So she's like you're not justgoing to grow up here, like
you're going to be educated,you're going to be a gentleman.

Speaker 1 (49:03):
They dressed him.
His name was Zamor Zamor.

Speaker 2 (49:06):
Yeah, zamor, zamor.

Speaker 1 (49:09):
Zamor, yeah, they dressed him very nicely.
I mean again, I think heprobably would have taken being
with his family and his homeProbably, and his homeland more
than anything else, but at leastshe treated him well.

Speaker 2 (49:23):
Exactly.
She treated him as best shecould and throughout all of this
too, with like she treating hima certain way and getting more
comfortable at court, she'sbeginning to finally like her
life a little bit at Versaillesand she gets a little risky with
, like her, fashion choices.
And she gets like, increasinglymore extravagant.
The king, obviously, is stillin love with her so much that he

(49:44):
keeps giving her so many jewelsand like gowns and all of these
things.
So she starts getting just soaccustomed to court life and
she's to the point where, eventhough people don't like her and
they make a lot of jokes at herexpense, she's very much
becoming a trendsetter.
So all of a sudden and theymake this joke in the Jean
Duvary movie but like she's,she's made fun of because she's

(50:06):
wearing stripes one day, andthen, like two days later,
everyone's wearing stripes.

Speaker 1 (50:10):
I saw Madame DuBarry wearing a striped dress, so now
I'm wearing a striped dress,exactly.

Speaker 2 (50:17):
And I think there was like another thing too, with
like she wore men's clothes oneday to like match her husband,
and it was this funny spectacleLike look, we're both wearing
matching outfits and then all ofa sudden, girls at court like
me, and me and my husband um,wait, I'm the husband.

Speaker 1 (50:32):
You're the husband.
You have shorter hair justkidding.
My sister used to say that tome.
Oh my god, sorry, did I hurt a?
Yeah, you got a soft spot rightthere.
I just got flashbacks to allthe pretend weddings I did with
my sister and I was always thehusband.

Speaker 2 (50:45):
I'm so sorry are you playing house?
Don't pour your wine on me.
She, I won't.
She splashes me, you just hit anerve right now.

Speaker 1 (50:51):
I'm just teasing.
She's a trendsetter, though.
She's a trendsetter right.

Speaker 2 (50:56):
But throughout all of this she's not necessarily
aloof, Because she comes fromhumble beginnings.
She knows what it's like to bea peasant and have nothing.
So throughout all of this she'soften like influencing the king
to pardon people for certaincrimes.
You know, she's got all theseenemies at court who are always
trying to like put these badrumors on her and everything,

(51:19):
and she just remains very like,kind of steadfast to who she is.
She's not changing who she is.

Speaker 1 (51:23):
She's proud of who she is.
Sticks and stones may break mybones, but words will never hurt
me.

Speaker 3 (51:28):
She would just Beautiful, that was actually a
very old limerick.

Speaker 1 (51:34):
I know what that is An old saying but also, she's in
the king's ear too.
So, for example, she did havean enemy, actually the guy who
brought her to Versailles.
They started rubbing headsagainst each other.

Speaker 3 (51:47):
That's not how you say it.

Speaker 2 (51:50):
No, that's exactly the expression, megan.
Is that the expression?
No Butting heads.
Butting heads against eachother, whoa.

Speaker 1 (51:59):
Talk about orgy party in here.
I want you to continue yourthought I'm trying here so they
were butting heads with eachother and while she wasn't
really interested in politics,but she did sit in some state
councils, which is interesting,yeah.

(52:21):
But she got wind of this plotthat he was putting together,
where he wanted France to go offto war again, and told the king
, and the king just like,dismissed him.
Like I don't want any of thatin my court so she did have some
power and I think that's.
I think people started todislike her, not just because of
her background and I don't knowif it was jealousy, but they

(52:43):
didn't like how it was jealousytoo she had so much power with
the king she he was justthrowing jewels and diamonds and
gowns and so much expense ather they almost felt like she
wasn't worth it.
She wasn't, yeah you know, so,of course, she.
There were a lot of people whojust didn't like her and which I
think should bring us to therelationship between her and

(53:05):
someone we do know, which isMarie Antoinette, marie
Antoinette.

Speaker 2 (53:10):
So Marie Antoinette arrives at court in 1770.
Excuse me, so at this pointshe's about 27 years old.
Madame du Barry is ObviouslyMarie Antoinette's much younger.
I think she was maybe 14 or 15when she was first brought to
Versailles.
But obviously Marie Antoinetteis the future queen.
She's got a lot of power rightaway and Marie Antoinette, I

(53:34):
think, doesn't really have anopinion right away.
She knows, when she meets herright before Marie Antoinette's
wedding, she gets this kind ofbad taste in her mouth because
she sees the way everyone treatsMadame du Barry, the comments
and the comments on what she'swearing.
And you know, I think in themovies the Sofia Coppola movie,
marie Antoinette she like burped, like Madame Dewberry burps at
the dinner table and everyone'sjust like whoa, like everyone,

(53:57):
just kind of put off by her.
Like manners, even though I dothink she had a lot of etiquette
, she learned etiquette, butthey still love to just, like
you know, make jokes at herexpense and all that.

Speaker 1 (54:06):
I do like those scenes because that actually did
happen.
The burp no, I don't know aboutthe burp, but that dinner did
happen, which was like a familydinner right before the wedding.
And that scene was in both theSofia Coppola Maria Antoinette
and then the Jean Dubarry thatwe just watched with Johnny Depp
, and there's this real quotethat happened during that night.

(54:30):
So Maria Twinnett was only 14years old and she's a little bit
naive as to what Du Barry'sposition is there at court, yeah
, and so she asked she goes oh,what is her position?
What does she do here?
And someone said she pleasesthe king.
Yeah, and she goes oh, well,then I shall rival her and I
shall be her.

Speaker 2 (54:51):
I shall be her rival, which just comes out like word
vomit.
She has no idea like she'sbasically saying like oh well,
I'm gonna make the king happierthan she does.
Yeah, very naive, myfather-in-law is gonna.

Speaker 1 (55:01):
Or my grandfather-in-law, yeah, is
gonna love me.
Yeah, it's like no honey thatis not what she is there.
You do not want to rival her inpleasing the king, exactly so I
.
I do.
Like those scenes, though,where she just gets the spitting
image of like oh right, she's alittle rough around the edges
exactly.

Speaker 2 (55:18):
And again, there's so much court gossip around her
that marie antoinette doesn'treally have a choice but to
ignore, um, the madame dewberry,because she's like, probably
thinks she's a little immoralherself, but she's also again
just hearing everything abouther, so she's like, well,
there's no way.
I'm new at this court, I wantto be on the right side of the
court and I'm not gonna befriendMadame du Barry, even though

(55:39):
she's the king's favorite, andput myself at risk of like
losing all my potential friends,like the aunties and the other
women at court who were tryingto guide her and tell her.
You know what the etiquette isat Versailles.
So one thing that's reallyinteresting and I learned this
from the book Megan Gifted MeMarie Antoinette's Head, which I
don't know how.
We don't know.
This book, like it is such anamazing book, so it's written by

(56:02):
Will Bashore, if I'm sayingthat correctly, and this book is
all about the royal hairdresserso cool.
And this book is all about theroyal hairdresser so cool, so it
and according to this book Imean this hairdresser is made
like, made marie antoinette.
Marie antoinette, yeah, likebecause she was known beyond
anything for her hair and herfashion like he was also from

(56:22):
nothing, this hairdresser, androse through the ranks to
versailles, you know, becamemarie antoinette's hairstylist
and made her such a like afashion icon.
Obviously a lot of it kind ofled to her downfall because
people saw that as such a signof extravagance.
But this whole book is abouthis memoirs and he, you know, I
mean these are, it's a truestory and it's all fact check to

(56:42):
see.
Okay, this is what he says,this is what might've actually
happened.
But one of the things that'sreally interesting is his name's
Leonard.

Speaker 1 (56:52):
Leonard, leonard, I love it Exactly.

Speaker 2 (56:54):
So Leonard, who's a very fancy man, gets his way
into Versailles and the firstperson that he's kind of
introduced to is Madame Duberry.
And he says when he first meetsMadame Duberry, in his memoirs
he's like she reminded him ofCleopatra, because she just was
out of the bath, like loungingin this chair, just like doesn't
really care what she's wearing,it's probably a small like

(57:16):
chemise thing or whatever.
She's very confident.

Speaker 1 (57:18):
And she's very confident yeah.

Speaker 2 (57:20):
And she's just like oh, so they say that you're,
like you know, a prodigy andyou're the best hairdresser,
Like you have to do my hair.
So she kind of like,seductively, is just like oh,
welcome to Versailles, like domy hair and make me beautiful,
and he just immediately isattracted to her and I think he
spends about three years justwith her as his main client.
Oh that's a long time.
Yeah, it's quite a while, andthat's why her fashion is again

(57:43):
so elevated too, because she nowhas this fancy hairdresser
who's doing her hair in allthese elaborate fashions with
feathers, and he put like birdsin the hair, like he did so many
creative things.
It's like if Hobby Lobby threwup on her hair, that would be
his hairstyle.

Speaker 1 (57:58):
He would be an influencer today.

Speaker 2 (58:00):
Oh, absolutely so.
Marie, or Madame Dewberry,recognizes that Marie
Antoinette's not fond of her.
So, as kind of a gift to MarieAntoinette, she wants to be like
hey, you know, I think this guycan actually do something for
you.
I should back up a little bit,because she's technically not
allowed to speak to MarieAntoinette at this point, and

(58:21):
we've talked about this onprevious episodes.
This was an iconic moment inhistory, yeah, so for the
longest time, Marie Antoinettenever spoke to Dewberry.

Speaker 1 (58:30):
Which was a snub.
She should have Snubbed her.
She should have spoken to her.
It was completely intentional.

Speaker 2 (58:34):
Yeah, and there was moments where the guy who came
from Austria with MarieAntoinette would tell the king,
like today's the day she's goingto talk to Dewberry, it's
happening today, and like shewould just continually get
snubbed.
Finally there's a day it's likeNew Year's Day, 1772.
So she's already been at courtfor two years.
Marie Antoinette has.

(58:56):
She finally like kind of goesnear Madame du Barry and says
there are a lot of people atVersailles today and literally
just nine words, nine words.

Speaker 1 (59:07):
Nine words In literally just nine words.
Nine words, nine words, andlike just a statement, whether
you can even argue.
Is it opinionated or is it?
Are you just?

Speaker 2 (59:15):
It's an observation, is it an?

Speaker 1 (59:16):
observation.

Speaker 3 (59:17):
Right, can you?

Speaker 1 (59:18):
even and she's opening it up if Dewberry can
respond, and she does right.
She just is like, yes, thereare.

Speaker 2 (59:27):
Well, according to the movie, she's just like yes,
there are.

Speaker 1 (59:30):
You know, but who knows, there's no real
conversation.

Speaker 3 (59:32):
Who knows?

Speaker 2 (59:32):
what was actually said back, but it was just a oh
wow.

Speaker 1 (59:36):
She acknowledged me, she talked to me it was such a
big moment for Jiberi, but itwas the dumbest thing she could
have said is yeah, no shit.
Can we say something a littlebit more intuitive here?

Speaker 2 (59:48):
Yeah, yeah, so because of that small sentence
now they're allowed to basicallyhave exchanges every so often,
even though Marie Antoinettestill doesn't like her and she's
still going to not make aneffort to speak to Du Barry.
But Du Barry now feelscomfortable at least going to
Marie Antoinette at some point.
Not going to her, but they meetin a garden, they're best
friends now.

Speaker 1 (01:00:08):
They're not going to her, but they meet in a garden.
They're best friends now.
They braid each other's hairDefinitely hate each other and
they make dandelion crowns.

Speaker 2 (01:00:13):
But they happen to be both walking the grounds, like
walking in the gardens, and theykind of bump into each other
and Dewberry's.
Like this is my opportunity togive Marie Antoinette a gift and
her gift is Leonard.
So she says, hey, Again,another person, we're just gonna
.
Yeah, they just gift peopleleft and right.
But she says to marieantoinette something along the

(01:00:34):
lines of and this is accordingto leonard's memoirs like hey,
you know, you're too young andbeautiful to be wearing such an
antiquated hairstyle.
Oh, my god.
So it's kind of also a diss,like it's all kind of rude too.

Speaker 1 (01:00:46):
I don't know who your hairdresser is now.
Yeah, but you've got to ditchthe guy.

Speaker 2 (01:00:54):
So she kind of tells him like you know, or Marie
Antoinette, like you know, Ihave Leonard and he's a prodigy.
You will love him, he'll doamazing things to your hair, and
Marie Antoinette's actuallyheard of Leonard at this point.
So it's not just Dewberrysuggesting it, but Marie
Antoinette, who hates Dewberry,uses this as an opportunity to
be like well, I'm going to takehim from you.
Great.
So they both think they'rewinning in this situation,
because Dewberry's like look, Igave her this gift and she's

(01:01:16):
going to like me, and MarieAntoinette's like I hate that
girl, I'm taking her hairdresser.

Speaker 1 (01:01:21):
Girls are so catty, they've always been catty.

Speaker 2 (01:01:24):
I know.

Speaker 1 (01:01:25):
It's just funny that it hasn't changed in 200, 300
years, so mean girls-ish, ohgeez Like.

Speaker 2 (01:01:31):
Oh my God, I love your hairdresser.

Speaker 1 (01:01:33):
So that is Du Barry's position at court and how she's
perceived by others.
We're going to flash forward to1774.
And sadly, the king is comingto the realization that he has
smallpox.
Yeah, he realizes that he's atthe end here and he and Dewberry

(01:01:54):
is by his side, despite howdisgusting he is, how contagious
he is.
I really think Dewberry andLouie had a true relationship.
It was more than just sex, itwas more than just, you know,
being with some girl.
But they were companions, likeElizabeth said, they were
partners, they were friends.

(01:02:16):
And he does something kind ofsad but realistic is he tells
her I need you to leave rightnow for a few reasons One I
don't want you to get sick.
You're all over me right nowwith my nasty-ass smallpox.
Breath Back off.

Speaker 3 (01:02:32):
Let me make you laugh .
Do you have smallpox You'remaking?

Speaker 2 (01:02:36):
me cough Laugh.
Go ahead, you okay.

Speaker 1 (01:02:38):
I'm good.
Two, he wants to have hisconfession and he, of course,
like hell is still a very realthing in the 1770s and in the
18th century.
I mean, it can still be.
I don't want to say it, I'm notgoing to bark on that.
But for them religion isobviously like very, very, very

(01:03:00):
important, and he doesn't feelgood in his heart confessing
while he still has his mistressnext to him in bed and really
quick, me and Megan talked aboutthis Because I was like why
doesn't he just marry her?

Speaker 2 (01:03:13):
His wife is dead, like what's wrong with him
remarrying?
And we discussed.
We're like, well, obviously shedoesn't have a title, so didn't
.

Speaker 1 (01:03:22):
No, she does.

Speaker 2 (01:03:23):
But didn't?
She's married and they don'treally get.
She's married, she's currentlymarried.
Yeah, she's married, that's theproblem.
No, no, exactly, but I'm sayinglike it's kind of a catch-22.
Yeah, where it's like yes,we're going to give you a title
through this marriage, but thenyou also can't marry her in the
future because she's married.

Speaker 1 (01:03:47):
Oh, I see what you're saying.

Speaker 2 (01:03:48):
So it's like, unless she also had the husband dead
and retained a title somehow,which I don't, you still do,
right?
I don't know how that works.
So, long story short, it's justironic that he can't just like
be with the woman he loves, it'slike, even though he's free to,
because he's not marriedanymore.

Speaker 1 (01:04:03):
She's married.
She's now married.
We just don't talk about thehusband ever again, Again.

Speaker 2 (01:04:08):
The husband you'll never hear about it was all just
for false paperwork.

Speaker 1 (01:04:11):
Yeah, so he wants to also confess and then also he's
like you should probably get theF out of here Because nobody
likes you Once I'm gone.
He was her one and onlyprotector.
Like these people at court aresavage.
You should get out before theykick you out.

Speaker 2 (01:04:28):
Yeah, Because before they kick you out yeah, because
they will kick you out and do iton your own terms.
If marie antoinette is the onepulling the strings, you know,
yeah, and they don't like herand of course that is what
happens.

Speaker 1 (01:04:39):
So the king, the king dies and she's gone at this
point.
But marie antoinette goes astep further to double check and
dot her I's and cross her T's.
She exiles her off to an abbey.
The nuns there do not like herat first, like oh great, we've
got this.
Like they just see her as aharlot.
They don't see her as alegitimate lady of court, an

(01:05:02):
aristocrat.
Right, they're cold at firstbut they always said she had a
very vivacious and warmpersonality.
Cold at first, but they alwayssaid she had a very vivacious
and warm personality.
And they do start to befriendher and they look past her, her
all, all of her reputation andeverything else, right, um, oh
god, I said reputation for asecond.
I just thought maybe taylor's.
Okay, do you need?

Speaker 2 (01:05:22):
a taylor break?

Speaker 1 (01:05:22):
no, I don't, I'm just dying to know if it's fine,
it's okay, Reputation Okay.
She's at the Abbey for at leasta year and she's in very small
confinement.
Imagine going from beingVersailles, the king's mistress,

(01:05:43):
and you can get anything youwanted to being shoved into a
small cold, very humble Abbeywith nuns, Very different
lifestyle and, I'm sure,reminiscent of her childhood
being educated at the convent.

Speaker 2 (01:05:55):
Yeah, she's like man.
I'm back to where I started.
She took a 180 here.

Speaker 1 (01:05:59):
Yeah, finally, a year later, they let her, kind of
like, get outside and explorethe countryside.
And a month later, like, okay,you can go a little bit farther,
but you have to be home bysunset.
You cannot be 10 mile radius ofversailles, because marianne
twinette does not like you right.
And then finally, two yearslater, she moves out, she's on
her own.

(01:06:19):
She's still not allowed to goto versailles, not, she's still
exiled, but at least she's free,in a sense, living on her own.
She has a couple more affairs.
Yeah, girl, I mean she was avery vivacious person.

Speaker 2 (01:06:33):
Yeah, she's still young at this point.
I think she's only 30 at thispoint I think she's like 35
right now.
Yeah, my age.
She's young, 30s.

Speaker 1 (01:06:40):
Thanks for saying that I'm a young 30s.

Speaker 2 (01:06:42):
You are young, 30s.
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:06:44):
Me too.
One guy was Brissac, the otherguy was Henry Seymour of Redland
.
Henry was married and theysounded like they had a great
time, but then eventually heleft her a portrait that had a
message that just said leave mealone.
That's great.
I mean, talk about gettingghosted.

Speaker 2 (01:07:05):
That's like a break up yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:07:06):
Imagine getting dumped via portrait.

Speaker 2 (01:07:09):
He also left it in English and not French, which is
kind of weird, kind of a weirdmove.

Speaker 1 (01:07:13):
It's weird.

Speaker 2 (01:07:15):
All of it's weird.

Speaker 1 (01:07:16):
I don't know what to think about it.
But I mean, if you really don'tlike someone, send them a
portrait that just says leave mealone In a language they don't
speak In a different language.

Speaker 2 (01:07:24):
If I was single, I'd do that move today.
Was single, I'd do that movetoday.
Here's a portrait of me.

Speaker 3 (01:07:29):
It says leave me alone in arabic leave me figure
that one out.

Speaker 1 (01:07:43):
Uh, the the first guy she was with brisic.
He actually seemed like a goodguy and he even like continued
to profess his love to her.
Sadly he was killed.
So we're gonna fast forward alittle bit.
We we're getting into therevolution now and I realize
this is a little bit of a longerepisode.
We had a lot of catching up todo, though.

Speaker 2 (01:07:56):
That's okay, so we're still going to take our time.
I'm not going to rush, andwe've done other episodes
covering a lot of the revolution, so we're not going to go into
the revolution.

Speaker 1 (01:08:04):
We're not going to get into that we.

Speaker 2 (01:08:05):
They don't like the people.
But we also should mention thatMadame Dewberry doesn't really
know what's going on in therevolution either.
Again, she wasn't thatpolitical.
She knew a little bit of whatLouis XV was saying, but she
wasn't there during King LouisXVI and Marie Antoinette's reign
.
She was gone.

Speaker 1 (01:08:21):
She was off in the countryside.

Speaker 2 (01:08:23):
So she has really honestly no clue.
She probably hears whispersright, it's France, but I don't
think she really knows therevolutionaries versus the
aristocrats and the moneyspending.
I think at this point she'slike I'm so removed from that.

Speaker 1 (01:08:36):
She's not in the weeds of all the politics with
it.
She's been living on her own nowfor about 15 years.
We are now in the 1790s, we'rein the middle of the French
Revolution.
Sadly, this one lover getslynched by a mob because he's
also an aristocrat and therevolutionists don't like them.

(01:08:56):
And she has her window open andthey throw like the mob throws.
She basically gets a bloody ragthrown in through her window
and she opens it up and findsit's his head Was it actually
thrown in her window, or didthey just hold it up and show
her?
No, it said her window was openand they threw it into her

(01:09:18):
window.
And she freaked out so bad asyou would.
She fainted, fainted, which islike yeah, they want to just
hold it up.

Speaker 2 (01:09:24):
Yeah, they throw it in.
It's just like Marie Antoinettewith Madame Labelle.
They did the same thing and itwas like Marie Antoinette's best
friend and the mob went off,found her best friend Frickin'
vicious.
Murdered her and then put herhead on a pike and put it out in
front of Marie Antoinette'swindow.
I don't think Marie Antoinetteaccording to these two books
that I read saw it.

Speaker 1 (01:09:45):
I think other people saw it and were're like don't go
to the window yeah but shestill, once she found out what
was, what it was of coursethat's like if I just saw your
head bobbling around outside.

Speaker 2 (01:09:53):
We talked about that on our very first episode.
I don't remember that I knowthis is why we can do the show
forever, because you just wejust keep repeating the same,
you just forget everything thatwas said clearly I haven't
changed.

Speaker 1 (01:10:03):
I have the same thoughts in my head.
It's good you have your headbubbling about.
That's nice, zomar.
If we remember him, he was herservant companion, exotic boy
Him, and another of her.
So he's still working for herRight.
15 years later, him and anotherstaff member end up joining the

(01:10:26):
Jacobian Jacobian.
Jacobian Jacobin.
It's not the regular Jacobianspelling, I'm not going to get
into it.

Speaker 2 (01:10:35):
But they're the revolutionaries.

Speaker 1 (01:10:36):
He joins a revolution , a revolutionist club, and she
finds out how involved they areon the other side.
She knows enough of likerevolutionists or not
revolutionists Right.

Speaker 2 (01:10:48):
She really quick.
You're going to hear winepouring.
Oh, good for you.

Speaker 1 (01:10:52):
She finds out and she basically gives him a three-day
notice to quit and he justleaves.
He's like I do not agree withyour lifestyle because she's
still coming from thesearistocratic background, even
though she's not.

Speaker 2 (01:11:06):
He said you can't fire me, I quit.

Speaker 1 (01:11:07):
Yeah, he did one of those.
He threw down his hat andwalked out.
Dubarry is now arrested becauseof her history with the courts.

Speaker 3 (01:11:19):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (01:11:19):
And they still see her as an aristocrat, even
though she hasn't been living atVersailles.
She's been exiled.
Marie Antoinette doesn't likeher.

Speaker 2 (01:11:26):
And she's been out of court longer than she was in
court Like she was only in courtfor maybe eight years, we think
.

Speaker 1 (01:11:31):
Yeah, she was not there long enough to really like
she made an impact, but you'reright, she was away from court
more of her life than she was incourt Right.

Speaker 2 (01:11:40):
And yes, she dressed just as extravagantly as Marie
Antoinette, but like I feel likethat wasn't necessarily her
identity quite yet.
Like I mean, yes, it was heridentity, but like Marie
Antoinette was really known forthat, like Madame Deficit, you
know, like really spending allof the French money like on her
lavish lifestyle, whereas like,yes, madame du Barry did the

(01:12:01):
same thing, but it was wellknown that the former queen was
very tight with the pursestrings and I think they kind of
had more control over the moneywhen Louis XV was in power.
Oh, that's a good point.
Like you know, yes, it was veryexpensive and lavish living for
her, but I think it got way outof hand once it was handed to
Louis.

Speaker 1 (01:12:20):
XVI.
Yeah, I think that's true, andso the actual charge that they
got her on was that she wasgiving financial assistance to
people trying to flee therevolutionist party right, so
helping people get out of it didwe ever like, did yeah in
treason it's always treason,yeah did we ever verify like

(01:12:41):
obviously not again.
She, she was found guilty.
Did she actually do that though?
Did she actually finance thesethings that they said that she?

Speaker 2 (01:12:50):
did.
I don't think there's anythingexcept for like witnesses saying
that.
I don't think there's anyevidence that she actually
financially supported anyone, atleast that I saw.
Again, if you guys knowdifferent, reach out to us, let
us know.
But I think it was more of alike he said.

Speaker 1 (01:13:07):
She said You're at the wrong place at the wrong
time.

Speaker 2 (01:13:09):
Yeah, like the wrong again.
I'm sure her servant boy waswilling to give a lot of false
testimony.
Well, that's the thing.

Speaker 1 (01:13:18):
He was at the trial and they did take his testimony,
yeah, and it's an interestingdynamic between the two of them.
On one hand, we see like, oh,she was so nice to him and
educated him and clothed him andfed him at Versailles.
Also, he was a servant, yeah,and I think it's safe to say he

(01:13:38):
was a slave, like he was broughtover.

Speaker 2 (01:13:42):
He was purchased, brought there he was not there
on his own free will yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:13:45):
And so, it's interesting, he eventually
turned against Du Barry.
After what?
25 years together?

Speaker 2 (01:13:54):
or so, and that's always discourse that happens in
the American South too, whenpeople are like, oh well, there
were good slave owners.
It's like, okay, yeah, but youwere still owning slaves.

Speaker 1 (01:14:03):
Like, you know what I mean.
But in the end, yeah, we don'tknow how he was feeling through
this.
Yeah, in the end.

Speaker 2 (01:14:07):
that act is wrong and I'm sure no slave would want to
be a slave.

Speaker 1 (01:14:11):
Yeah, you know.
Yeah, it doesn't matter hownice someone was, yeah, and also
we don't really know what theirrelationship was like behind
closed doors.
We don't know what that 15years was like, as he was still
a servant in her household.
So, all that said, obviously, Ithink I can almost picture them
having like very twoperceptions of what the
relationship is where she's like.

Speaker 3 (01:14:31):
Zomar, we're buddies.

Speaker 1 (01:14:33):
What are you doing?
And he's like are you kiddingme?
He's like I hate you.
You kept me in a cupboard and,like, fed me old bread.
We just don't know.
We don't know what the wholestory was.
I think, yeah, I think you'reright Like in the end I can't
say he was totally happy, Ican't say I wasn't there.

Speaker 2 (01:14:49):
I wasn't there.
Can anyone be happy whenthey're not free?

Speaker 1 (01:14:51):
I wasn't there, but he turns against her and that's
really what led her to herguilty sentence.
She was led to the guillotineon December 8, 1793.
And she has an interesting.
I mean it's always going to beinteresting when you're at a
guillotine Right, but hers wasespecially memorable, I think,

(01:15:13):
for the audience.

Speaker 2 (01:15:14):
Because at this point I think the audience for
executions because there's beena lot now this is after.
We should note this is the sameyear as both Louis XVI's
execution and Marie Antoinette'sexecution, so both of them have
already been executed.
So this is December of the sameyear, end of the year, and all
these crowds have probably seenLouis and Marie and they're used

(01:15:37):
to very dignified aristocratsthat are like I'm going to do
this with pride, I'm going to goto the scaffold with my head
held high.
No one can take away mynobility.
Like.
They have this weird sense ofcalm.
Almost it's almost creepy howcalm they are sometimes before
executions.
Yeah, Whereas Dewberry is fromnothing, rose, to the very like

(01:15:59):
top of society, has kind offallen back down to nothing and
she loves her life.
Like she's like yo.
Like I don't have noble blood.
I don't know why you're tryingto spill my blood.
Like she's like yo.
Like.

Speaker 1 (01:16:10):
I don't have noble blood.
I don't know why you're tryingto spill my blood Like I want to
live so she's freaking out.
I also don't think she wasmentally prepared for it.

Speaker 2 (01:16:15):
Yeah, Like.

Speaker 1 (01:16:15):
Marie Antoinette was composed, that's true, but she
had months that she would, fromJuly to October, to come to
terms.
She had already seen all thesedeaths, including her husband
yeah, her kids were taken away.
She knew what was coming.
She knew what her fate was andI think she had enough time to
decompress that and accept it.
She was over it.

(01:16:36):
She was so done and sick andlike get me out of this ungodly
world.
Yeah, dewberry was not prepared, so she's freaking out, she's
having a meltdown, she'sscreaming.
They can't contain her.
It's said that she even likegot loose and ran across the
scaffold Like girl, where areyou going to go?
And she was like begging peopleto help her.

(01:16:56):
There's thousands of peoplehere all witnessing, ready to
watch you lose your head Right,yeah, nowhere to go.

Speaker 2 (01:17:02):
But she's desperate and she's offering everything
she has.
At this point.
She's offering like I'll tellyou where the rest of my
remaining jewels are.
You can have, like, all thewealth that I carry, like which,
to me, is a very human reactionto you about to die.

Speaker 1 (01:17:14):
You negotiate, you negotiate, you're trying to do
anything to get out of it.
It's like the stages of grief.
She's probably like is thisreally happening?

Speaker 2 (01:17:20):
Like denial, and then you know, and she's only 50
years old, so she's not she'sgot a back half of her life to
live.
You know, she's got a lot oftime left.
She's healthy.
Like you know, she again wasn'treally expecting all of this to
go down as fast as it did, andso here she is, in her final
moments.
She's just a wreck and she'sbegging and she, even at the

(01:17:42):
very, very end, like goes to theexecutioner.
And I'll let you say what theline is yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:17:47):
Well, even before that she's, she's saying are you
going to hurt me?
Why are you going to hurt me?
Like, yes, they're going tohurt you, you're going to yeah,
you're going to die.
Yeah, she keeps going.
Why, why, why are you going tohurt me, which is such a funny
way to say like not, are yougoing to kill me.
Not, are you going to kill me,but are you going to hurt me.
It's kind of an interestingchoice of words.

Speaker 2 (01:18:16):
So, they force her head into the guillotine head
hole.
Well, you get strapped to aplank first.

Speaker 3 (01:18:20):
Is there a word for that?

Speaker 2 (01:18:21):
I don't know, there probably is a real term we
should know.
But they like strap you to aplank and kind of feed you
through, like where the actualblade comes down.

Speaker 1 (01:18:30):
And it happens fast.
They've got it down.
That was the whole point of theguillotine.

Speaker 2 (01:18:36):
It was down to seconds of how quickly they can
do all of this, and it preventedbotched executions, as we've
seen Exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:18:40):
And she goes one more moment, mr Executioner.
Mm-hmm, that's her last word.
One more moment, mr Executioner.
She's just begging for moretime.
She's already strapped in.
It's like got to do it.
And she's like one more moment.
And it's almost like did shesay one more moment because she
wanted to take it all in?

Speaker 2 (01:19:01):
Maybe she thought someone would change their mind
if there was a couple moremoments.
She wasn't ready.

Speaker 1 (01:19:05):
Maybe she was praying , maybe she was trying.
They didn't give her thatmoment.
They just, they have no mercy,they let it go and they said
that she barely got the lastword out.
Like Mr Executioner.
She calls him Mr Executionertoo, which is funny.

Speaker 2 (01:19:20):
She literally said the last word, like as the
guillotine blade was going down.
I wonder if her lips were stillmoving.
That's creepy.
I don't want to think aboutthat.
I don't like the post head offsituation and what happens to
your brain.

Speaker 1 (01:19:38):
You host a podcast called.

Speaker 2 (01:19:38):
Beheaded and you don't want to think about it.
I don't like to think about thefew moments when your head's
off and you might be alert.

Speaker 3 (01:19:43):
I don't want to think about that.

Speaker 1 (01:19:44):
Yeah, that's a pretty awful scenario.

Speaker 2 (01:19:46):
Right and as what happened with Louis and Marie,
they just like took her body andlike did a quick little burial,
no ceremony around it, in theMadeleine Cemetery and that's
where, again, kind of all of thepeople from Versailles went.
Eventually they exhumed theirremains and put them in proper

(01:20:07):
places.
I don't know where Madame duBarry is buried now, but I'm
sure she's been taken out ofthat cemetery because that was
very much where you put thepeople you were ashamed of in
that time.
Oof, Awful.

Speaker 1 (01:20:19):
Another French Revolution, I know Done.

Speaker 2 (01:20:23):
I love this one, though We've been talking about
doing du Barry for a long timeand we weren't sure if we wanted
to make her an intro or finale.
But I'm glad that we endedseason five with Elizabeth de
France and then started strongwith Madame Du Barry, because
she's such a fascinating figure.
And, again, I think most peoplewho learn about the revolution,
or at least Marie Antoinette'slife, you initially are kind of

(01:20:44):
rubbed the wrong way.
With Du Barry, you're like, oh,you rub heads.
Yeah, wrong way.
With Dewberry, you rub heads,yeah, you rub heads.
You're just like, initiallylike, oh, that, like sleazy girl
who's in court.
You know who the king loved.
And as you unpack her life,you're just like, oh, like, get
where she's coming from.
Yeah, and like, I mean,everyone applauded Marie
Antoinette for kind of shakingup court and making it less
antiquated and dusty and it'slike but look at Madame Dewberry

(01:21:07):
, she did it before MarieAntoinette did.
You know, she wasn't afraid tojust be there.
People ignored her half thetime and she wasn't afraid to
wear these elaborate hairstylesand fashions and I think that
set the tone for MarieAntoinette in a lot of ways,
even if Marie Antoinette wouldnever admit it because she
didn't like Duberry, yeah, butshe had to get her kind of
pizzazz and flair from somewhereand maybe she saw Dewberry like

(01:21:28):
hey, that woman, that woman,even though people don't like
her people are looking at her.

Speaker 1 (01:21:33):
Yeah, you know she's got a lot of influence, I can't
deny it.
Yeah, it feels good to get backin front of the microphone.
Yeah, to everyone who's beenlike reaching out during our off
season, giving suggestions ofwhat we're going to go over this
season and asking when we'recoming back, and all of that, it
means a lot.
So thank you.
Thanks for sticking with us onour sixth year here.

Speaker 2 (01:21:54):
And hello to our new friends from Author Fan Travel.
We met a lot of great peoplethere and some of them had heard
of the show.
Yeah, some hadn't.
So those of you that are new,welcome.

Speaker 1 (01:22:03):
Yeah.
And were those your final words?
No, were those your final words?
No, do you have any final words?

Speaker 2 (01:22:08):
Yes, Ooh Women who come from nothing are ready for
anything oh.

Speaker 1 (01:22:22):
Stick around to hear a trailer from Ambivalent
Offenders, another historypodcast.

Speaker 3 (01:22:30):
Offenders another history podcast.
They've been labeled manythings Villainous, notorious,

(01:23:00):
infamous offenders of crimes orsociety's morals.
Ambivalent OffendersreexExamining History's Most

(01:23:26):
Questionable Figures is apodcast that explores the
fascinating and often overlookedstories of these questionable
historical figures from all erasin a conversational,
approachable storytelling formatbetween co-host Jamie that's me
is covered, their story toldwith commentary and a final
judging on how we think thefigure should be judged.
Simply put, doing some majorjudging or side-eyeing of
historical figures.
We're looking at you, nixon.
We've been passionate aboutuncovering the truth behind

(01:23:49):
rumors and propaganda that haveplaced these figures in the gray
area of history.
Join us on our journey as wedelve into each historical
figure's story and decide forourselves and, of course, with
our listeners.
Have these figures had theirreputations unfairly destroyed
or do they deserve every word?
They've been called unfairlydestroyed or do they deserve

(01:24:11):
every word they've been called?
Ambivalent Offenders isavailable for listening for free
on all podcast streaming apps.
Listen now and judge away.