Behind the Build: Aleris Rodgers & Francesco Valente-Gorjup - Studio Vaaro

Aleris Rodgers and Francesco Valente-Gorjup are the co-founders of Studio VAARO, a Toronto architecture practice focused on thoughtful, holistic design from concept through construction. They met while completing their Master of Architecture at UCLA and later worked in Europe and Asia, including several years with Herzog & de Meuron. There, Francesco developed deep expertise in façades and building envelopes across large, multidisciplinary teams, and both contributed to the design and construction phases of the M+ museum in Hong Kong before relocating to Canada.

Aleris was born in San Francisco and raised in the United States. She earned a BA in Psychology from Harvard and an MArch from UCLA. She is licensed in New York State and serves as an Assistant Professor, Teaching Stream, at the University of Toronto’s Daniels Faculty. Francesco grew up in Toronto, studied English and architecture at the University of Toronto, and later returned to KPMB, where he contributed to major projects and obtained OAA licensure.

Founded formally in 2022, Studio VAARO’s work ranges from full-gut residential transformations to new builds, often integrating interiors, custom detailing, and rigorous coordination. Their Rathnelly House renovation exemplifies the studio’s approach, re-structuring a century home within its original roofline while introducing generous ceiling heights, monolithic concrete elements, and inventive fixtures such as a recessed triangular powder-room sink. The practice also pursues research, most recently coauthoring Impossible Toronto: On the Courtyard with Gabriel Fain Architects, a Neptis Foundation–supported study that visualizes how European-style courtyard blocks could enrich Toronto’s housing landscape.

Impossible Toronto: On The Courtyard

By: Studio VAARO & Gabriel Fain Architects, for the Neptis Foundation

https://impossibletoronto.ca/

Globe and Mail: Opinion by Alex Bozikovic

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/culture/art-and-architecture/article-a-dense-urban-canada-its-possible/

Curated Podcast Sponsors:

Caplan's Appliances: https://caplans.ca/

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To connect with our sponsors, email me: [e-mail]

Behind the Build on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/behind_the_build_podcast

Episode Transcript

(00:08):
Welcome to Behind the Build. I'm your host Jonathan Jacobs
and today I have with me a couple, not the first couple
that I had on here that have been working together both
professionally and also on the personal side of things.
They are recent contributors to Impossible Toronto Initiative
book that is now available for purchase and you'll be able to

(00:32):
find that in the liner notes. So please make sure you do check
that today I have with me Chris Rogers and Francesco Valente.
Who are you, Studio Bara? Thanks for having.

(00:54):
Us great to be here. I've got all that correct
beginning. Absolutely excellent.
OK, good. Later in this episode, you'll
hear a layer of San Francesco describe one of my favorite
design moments in one of their projects.
The way a primary ensuite in powder room intersect a shared
wall becomes a sculptural element, hiding a recessed sink

(01:16):
on one side and defining the vanity on the other.
It's a detail that looks effortless, but it only works
because of the precision, the measurements, the intersection
that's thought through the same level of intention is what makes
working with Kaplan's appliancessuch as seamless.
Part of our process in the overall process for you as an

(01:36):
architect, designer, or homeowner.
When you're designing spaces where architecture and millwork
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They have to disappear into the design.
Kaplan helps make that possible.There were reps worked directly
with our mill workers and stone fabricators, supplying every

(01:57):
spec from hinge clearances to ventilation requirements.
So a fridge or dishwasher integrates perfectly behind the
cabinetry. Even a surface mounted cook top
can sit flush within the counterbecause the stone fabricator in
Kaplan's team have already coordinated every tolerance in
high design. Beauty comes from what you don't

(02:19):
notice, the quiet alignment between form and function.
That's what Caplans understands.When every appliance fits as
naturally as that recessed wall in the on suite, the design
speaks for itself. If you want to learn more and
get connected with Kaplans, please feel free to e-mail me.
It's Jonathan Jonathan at waldenhomes.ca and I'm happy to

(02:43):
connect you. But for now, let's go back to
Alaris and Fresco. So, so with all that said, I was
introduced to you by Gabriel fame also contributed to the
book and you and like you and I connected and said, let's let's
get you in here. Let's talk about you and your
practice and evolution, you as professionals.

(03:05):
And so like everyone else, I have a lot of questions I want
to ask, none of which you can see that are all in my mind.
So starting out with the basics of like how you got started,
what did it look like for you aschildren growing up?
Way back. Yeah, yeah.
I want you to draw some memorieshere.
Yeah. OK, so I'll start off with you.

(03:28):
There's oht me first. OK, Yeah, I mean, I guess I took
the roundabout way into architecture, Yeah.
And actually, so not going as far back as childhood, but maybe
college. Go back.
Before that, really. OK, my earliest memories.
Like Mechano or Lego? I was actually, yeah, I had a
lot of Lego. I think my dad bought me a ton

(03:49):
of Lego. I think a lot of it was for him
as much As for me, but enjoyed that, enjoyed drawing quite a
bit. It was very creative and
artistic as a as a child. I was actually born and raised
in San Francisco and then was about 6 my family moved to
Maryland, so the other coast. Yeah.
But yeah, I was born in the US and I'm I've only become

(04:12):
Canadian and recent years since living here.
So yeah, creative kid, but then went into more like sciences
academically. I thought I'd end up being an
engineer actually, that's what Ihad in mind was as applying for
for college and then got to college and realized it just
wasn't for me. All my, you know, electives

(04:33):
would have been eaten up by math, and I enjoy some laugh,
but maybe not that much so. I have.
I have a question for you. There you go.
Yeah, going back. To yeah, yeah, yeah.
Were you the kind of person thatplayed with Lego and it was all
organized or was it in a bin andyou would pull out the pieces
that you wanted? Or did you follow instructions

(04:53):
or you creating your own? Maybe a bit of both.
I can imagine that it was probably pretty organized,
though, just knowing the kind ofperson I am.
Yeah, that's a good question forFrancesco.
Too actually have a logo. Yeah, yeah, he has a good Lego
story. Yeah.
OK, so you realize that engineering wasn't for you?
Yeah. And So what did that look like?

(05:13):
When it was kind of. Cool, were you at that?
Point, it was still the first year, so early on I was just
kind of taking courses and what is psychology?
Just really enjoyed it. And I figured no matter what I
wanted to do later in life, get to understand people.
Yeah, yeah, so did social psychology and but it was also
on the on the side extracurriculars, doing quite a

(05:35):
bit of graphic design. And yeah, I ended up wanting to
combine my interest in psychology and design
professionally and was thinking maybe product design.
OK. Just started researching grad
programs and design and found that architecture programs
actually welcome students without a background in
architecture and worked in some small architecture terms to get

(05:59):
a feel for it. During during school.
This is now after graduating. Yeah, graduate.
OK, found I. Liked it?
So where did you go? For undergrad, yeah.
So undergrad I went to Harvard and then grad and applying for a
couple schools in the States andwent to UCLA.
This is my lack of knowledge. What was this?

(06:20):
What were class graduating classsize is like when you If you
did, you did your architecture degree using.
Right. Yeah, I think there were sixty
students in our class. Yeah, yeah.
Nice intimate scale through the program.
And do you still keep in touch with them, you the other
graduates? Yeah, we do actually.
And Francesco just had drinks with one who flew in from
Amsterdam. So yeah, that's amazing.

(06:42):
Yeah, they're kind of all over the world.
Obviously a lot still in LA but doing some interesting things.
And So what was it like? We're gonna get to you soon,
Francesca at all or no worries like question.
So questions like going through your undergrad program.
Is it a four year program that you?
Finished. Yes.
Yeah. And what did you do in summers?
What did those look like? Yeah, 1 summer I worked in a lab

(07:06):
at the National Institutes of Health in Maryland, which is
where my parents worked. Yeah.
And that's how I discovered science was not for me.
The lab life for your kind of byyourself all day in a windowless
room. I Yeah, I wanted to deal with
people and have every day. Yeah, exactly natural daylight.
Yeah, I want it every day to look different, which is what I

(07:27):
feel we've achieved in architecture.
Yeah, Yeah. So that was 1 summer, another
summer I just traveled. That's great.
And in the US or did you? Go in your I went to Europe for
a summer. So what?
What did you see? See a lot of Italy, OK, started
in London, Italy. I just had a friends working
abroad for the summer and just wanted to take some time off and

(07:50):
I mean it's a real privilege to get to do that so.
Were there any standout moments you had where you you walk up to
something like so wrong you havecalcium?
Oh, yeah, yeah. We, we rented an apartment with
some friends that was within a block of the Colosseum.
And Simon and Garfunkel actuallycame to town to they put on a
free show. They were there singing in front

(08:11):
of the Colosseum and. Yeah, while you happen to be.
Right, yes, it was amazing. And everyone was there, like
clutching their chests and eyes closed, like singing along.
I couldn't believe it. All these Italians were, really.
Into it. So your friends name wasn't
Cecilia? Wasn't.
No, no. OK.
And what about like a standout meal from potentially one one of

(08:34):
the times during that summer? Was there like a location that
you had? I went, I went to Sienna by
myself just for a side trip for one or two nights and just had a
great meal there. I can't even recall exactly what
I ate, but I also recall a lot of people just giving me funny
looks because of, at the time atleast, it was pretty unusual to
eat by yourself as a woman in Italy.

(08:55):
So yeah, I guess it still is. Answer deal.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. OK.
And so you Fast forward, you go see, you go to UCLA.
Yeah, like assume this is where you met.
Yes, indeed. Yeah, the rest is history.
OK, so pause there with you. Let's go.

(09:16):
Yeah. Yeah, So I both my parents were
very into architecture, especially my father I think
would have probably wanted to bean architect and like different
life. OK, what did he do?
He is a professor of literature,Canadian and post colonial

(09:36):
literature at the university level.
My mother was a diplomat and so she was involved in promoting
Italian culture abroad. So Drano, LA, Chicago, some of
the posts where she was and someof the cities where I ended up
living as well. And so my father, I think from a

(09:59):
very young age, kind of instilled this curiosity for,
for architecture. And we would travel to Europe
every summer to see family. And I would be sketching, you
know, the Pantheon or, you know,different buildings still have
some of these doodles at home. Kind of funny to look back on

(10:19):
them, you know, the hand of a child.
Don't. Have them.
So this is my request. Yeah, I do have one actually
that is framed. It's of the Pantheon picture of
it. I'll send it to.
You, of course, this week while this is out, you could check our
stories and we'll put that. Picture up and I'll see if we'll
put it out there for opinion. So I'll turn off comments.

(10:44):
And so I, you know, this was clearly something that they had
a kind of a curiosity of a child, you know, child, child
like curiosity because you don'tfully, you know, understand, I
think the built environment in an intellectual sense as a
child, you feel it's more of a sensation.

(11:05):
But the, the kind of, you know, drawing attention and pausing
and to look at it, which is kindof what my father is
specifically would ask of me, issomething that starts raising
questions like, why is this important?
Why is it when you start noticing things, you start
asking other questions? So anyway, Fast forward, I kind

(11:27):
of had this sense of being interested in architecture from
early on. Um, and I think what really kind
of consolidated, I did this job shadowing in high school.
I think I was 12. And so I dropped Shadow at a
very good family friend who was an architect, Bruce Kuwabara,

(11:48):
and I followed him for an entireday.
A friend of. Bruce.
No, Bruce. It was Bruce.
Yeah, Bruce. He was a very close family
friend. Who and.
This is where So in Toronto, Yeah, I grew up in Toronto.
I was also born in San Francisco, actually in the same
hospital as Alaras. Come on.
Yeah, but my, my mother was based in San Francisco as the

(12:10):
director of the Italian CulturalInstitute there.
And then it was relocated to Toronto.
And when I was, I don't know, a couple weeks old basically.
So I didn't grow up there. I was just born there.
And she came to Toronto to run the Italian Cultural Institute
in Toronto, which is on Huron St.
And early on, she discovered this youngish architect Bruce,

(12:32):
using crazy young at the time is, you know, maybe our age
actually a little bit older. So very young.
Very young actually. And he, he was brought on to,
well, she asked him if he would,if he would help do the
exhibition design for various shows.
One was a Bugatti furniture. There had never been a show like

(12:55):
this before. And so Bruce came in and started
doing the exhibition design. That one was particularly
stunning where he put this Bugatti furniture that looks
very exotic on a plinth with white sand that I still
remember. He with a blow dryer was
sculpting the sand into kind of doomes and then placing the

(13:17):
furniture on there. So we lived on the 3rd floor.
That was a perk of the director as you got the apartment on the
3rd floor. Says a child.
That would have been about 6. I was, you know, I kind of acted
like I owned the place and I would go downstairs, especially
when they were setting up these exhibits to poke around.
And so I got to know Bruce like that from a very early age.

(13:40):
So anyway, he agreed to let me tag along at 12 and I was
completely taken. And he obviously gave me a bit
kind of like the best possible view into the profession.
But I remember, you know, we started off at his office, which
is impressive. It was at John St.
King and John and this beautifulkind of loft building owned by

(14:00):
Mirvish. They'd Mirvish and started off
in the office discussion. Maybe there was a meeting.
Then we went to have lunch, thenwe went to a site visit.
Then we went, you know, it was just a, a day full of, you know,
wonders, you know, it felt so diverse and, and, and magical.

(14:22):
And so I was like, wow, this is what an architect does.
This is great. Sign me up.
Little did I know that that's not always the case, but it was
a nice intro. It was a nice intro to the
profession. Later in the episode, you'll
hear how careful detailing shapes experience, from
exhibitions that framed objects with light to projects where

(14:44):
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(16:09):
If you want to learn more. Need a warm intro?
e-mail me, It's Jonathan. Jonathan at waldenholmes.ca and
I'm happy to make the introduction.
For now, let's go back to Francesco and Olaris.
And so, yeah, from 12, I basically knew that I was going
to be an architect around 12. And so I did my undergrad at UT

(16:33):
in English literature and architecture.
I wanted to, well, I wanted to pursue both.
I was genuinely curious and the kind of intellectual side and
reading and stuff like that stuff anyway.
But Med Gabriel an undergrad. Yeah.
So that's we go way back to whenwe were 19 years old.

(16:54):
That's when we met. Yeah.
Yeah, not so far after that, Yeah.
And and then it took a year off to live in LA because my mother
had been posted in LA by the time and I wanted to explore
that option. Worked for Johnson Markley there
and then joined UCLA and meant hilarious.

(17:16):
Magical. I just.
Like getting my work, it was like it was love at first sight.
I mean, it took us, it took us acouple months maybe, but.
We were sitting opposite each other in studio.
Yeah, we were in the same studio, first year, first
semester. And, you know, it's an intimate
environment. You get to know people.

(17:36):
Yeah, I had a Vespa. She was curious about that.
And so I took her for a ride. And is this true?
OK, so tell me you you both graduated from this year
reprogram and I don't know this so I'll just ask, did they also
do they also have a Co-op program with some other?
Schools. No, they did not.
No, it's a three-year program and.

(17:59):
Most most students worked in thesummers, but unfortunately I
mean a Co-op placement would have been really nice.
Thing is a way of getting work experience while you're in
school. But yeah, so we would work in
the summers. Presently and took you places.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I work for until Piano 1 summer
in Genova. So I went to Janova Larus work

(18:19):
for you for Mattress Firm. Also done some Johnson Mark my
undergrad. Also I worked for KPMG every
summer. So I've been in that office like
for a long time. So I'm.
Holding on to the. Bargain.
When I came back, you know, all those years, it's kind of
surreal to actually be back there as a kind of as an adult.

(18:41):
We've seen the evolution of thatpractice also since because when
you at six, the practice would be relatively.
New, yeah, 6, I didn't even knowwhat architecture was, but by 12
I had a better sense, right? Yeah.
And yeah, they were working on some very big projects that are
now legacy projects, right? And yeah.

(19:01):
And so, but then you ended up going and working in another
practice. Was it together?
Yeah, after. School.
Yeah, yeah. Solaris actually wanted to.
Her parents were actually both European citizens.
I'm Belgian, Francesco's Italianand Croatian.
And so I thought we so we graduated in basically into the

(19:25):
kind of recession in this the 2008 recession in the States.
I mean, it was a few years afterthat now, but they were still
feeling the effects and thought,OK, this is we're young.
This is a good time to kind of work in Europe where the least
in parts of Europe the economy was much better and for Tesco
said OK sounds good but the onlyway I would move to Europe is if

(19:47):
I get a job that hurts. And to provide a bit of context,
like I had lived in Europe already, so it wasn't something
that I was, you know. You're.
Like I kind of done it and yeah,you know, yeah.
So. But I was open, I guess, to
entertain the idea, but with a very.

(20:09):
Very particular constraint, yeah.
Was that constraint. Yeah, well, I set the bar.
Time we thought it was unlikely but who knows so we we he
applied there I applied to some other smaller practices in
Basel, Switzerland and it just so happened that we were you
know, traveling in Europe that summer and we both managed to

(20:30):
get interviews lined up these respective practices and then
both ended up getting jobs therewhich was.
The other people at the time were brought in this new staff.
Into these offices. The office that you were.
Well, here it's in the run as a large office, so they were
always looking for for students,but they hire mainly European

(20:54):
students. Yeah, a lot of that is like a
visa issue, you know, So it's hilarious mentioned because we
have EU passports, it made it much.
Easier. The office was about 300
something people when Francesca joined, and I joined a much
smaller office in Basel and I think there were about maybe a
dozen or less of us when I firstjoined.

(21:17):
Did you remember? I mean, obviously going through.
So that's a silly, silly way to serve the question.
What were some of the projects that you were working on at the
time? What do they look like?
Sure. I worked on a a wide range of
projects in the smaller practice.
There were some pavilions on thelookout point in a park in

(21:38):
France. It's actually my first week on
the job. I was sent to France to work on
this, kind of manage this project.
So I've spent. I'm already traveling.
I know it was. It was my first week.
I actually spent more time in this French office than the
office I was working for in Switzerland.
So it was a bit of an odd first week.

(21:58):
I also worked on some housing competitions within Europe,
master plan competitions, competition for let's say Onion,
which is essentially a large aquarium for Basel.
So yeah, quite a range of of projects there.
Very. Are you designing the space that

(22:21):
the with the? That the fish will occupy.
No, we we actually worked with an aquarium specialist who
worked as a consultant. Is is there an aquarium
architect? Is that a specialist?
Yeah, yeah, Specialist. Yeah.
OK. There's fields of pretty much
any consultant you could wish for in architecture, and as
someone who specializes in that,yes.

(22:42):
Yes, many practices that fulfillthat type of requirement for.
That's a pretty neat. Thing, yeah, not, not too many,
yeah. So sorry, digress.
No, no problem. Yes, OK.
And so I was, I ended up workingthere for two years and then
actually joined Francesco Herzogdemon after.

(23:03):
But maybe I'll let him speak also to his experience at.
Yeah, Yeah. I, I worked kind of right off
the bat on very large projects there on large teams.
So the first one was in Brazil, it was for or cultural complex
in Sao Paulo, which never got built unfortunately.
But it was really it had three concert halls at different

(23:29):
scales, like a very intimate 1A larger one in a medium like
black box type thing or indoor connected by what looked like
kind of infrastructural almost like overpasses.
So imagine long strips that werecrisscrossed the different
levels with lodged between them these objects that were these

(23:51):
concert calls and then all the negative spaces filled with
plants and vegetation. So very open air, taking
advantage of, you know, that climate and the size.
And so by the end, we were a team of 48 people.
So for me, it was really like that.
That for me was kind of that wasarchitecture, which like, you

(24:13):
know, you kind of end up also being shaped by your
environment. And it's only maybe later that
you step into a different environment that you realize,
like, wow, that was actually a massive team, massive
undertaking. But it seems so normal when
you're in it, you know? How do you how would they have
divided the team up? By by this, by kind of by topics

(24:35):
or by disciplines. So there was a team just doing
the concert halls, A-Team doing just doing structural
coordination and drainage, and then there was a team doing
envelope, which is what I quickly joined and then pursued
basically six years of becoming a bit of a facade expert in the

(24:57):
office and going to different projects to develop the envelope
design, which is which happens to be their specialty also.
So it's very nice to have falleninto that kind of specialty
within that office. And I learned a lot, of course.
And really it's. Yeah, I exposed the kind of

(25:19):
process and rigor and curiosity of really trying to reimagine
what envelopes can be and how they perform and how they look
and very rigorous undertaking ofprototyping, dealing with
manufacturers and everything being custom source.
Were you often on trips that were manufactured?

(25:42):
Later on, yes, yeah, Later on when we moved to Hong Kong, was
actively involved in going to ceramic factories, glass
factories. In the same.
No, I was focused on different parts of the project eventually,
so I did not travel for work, but that's fine.

(26:03):
No, not. Later in stage of the early part
of your career. The only part you traveled a
lot. At the early part of the
weekend, you were. Already, Yes, yeah.
That's true within the practice.So, So what do you look like for
you? What were you?
What was your focus? Well, so so after leaving the
small firm, I was at first so I don't Francesco.
And actually they placed me on the same project as him, which

(26:29):
after working on a few differentprojects, he was placed on this
museum called M Plus, which is akind of multi media museum
currently located in Hong Kong. And so I joined the same team
and actually six months after joining, they asked us if we
wanted to relocate to Hong Kong to work on that project there in

(26:53):
the sort of later stages of design and during construction.
So I guess that would be considered travel, I suppose,
for work. Yes, in a big way, yeah.
Yeah. We were not.
We were not, but we've already been together for 6-7 years at
that point. Now, yeah, OK, Yeah.

(27:14):
So you have this internal conversation between the two of
you after after work and you're debating yes or no, yes or.
No. I mean, it's pretty much yes.
We were pretty. We were ready to leave
Switzerland, so we were going toleave the office and then this
offer came and to stay with the office but in a different
location. But also it's a large, it's a

(27:35):
big privilege within that specific office to actually
build the building. Huge amount of the people
working in the office or supporting doing the design and
then a relatively small component actually go and build
the buildings. They obviously often work with
with local partners and buildinga building is the greatest

(28:00):
learning experience. So not to mention a Museum of
this scale and complexity. So as we couldn't say no, you
know, we jumped on the opportunity and.
This is like one of those careermoments, and I think everyone
I've spoken to in some capacity,they have not yet dreamed of
being able to be a part of the museum.
Yeah. Yeah.

(28:22):
So we were there. We built it.
We left before unfortunately wascompleted, but that was due to
many kind of actors manufacturers on the.
Question about this experience prior to leaving.
So how many years was that project in development before
construction started? Yeah, it was.

(28:43):
Four or five. It's yeah.
It was one through competition, yeah, was not on the competition
team. And then I think a year or so
after a year and a half after winning the competition, it
started in in the office in Basel for about a year and a
half, I think. So I've been on it for a year

(29:06):
that Alerus joined for six months and then it was, it was
very fast actually the design. Process was very.
It was very fast. And then, yeah.
And then the construction. 5 or 6.
Years of construction along here.
Yeah, Yeah. And it opened a few years ago.
It opened unfortunately during COVID.

(29:27):
Happy pretty much for the first little while.
And I think local still whining,but none of the team who had
worked on the project from abroad was able to attend the
cause the quarantine. Yeah, at the time you would have
to stay in a quarantine hotel for two weeks.
So we didn't go. And now we have kids.
And so who knows when we'll be back to Hong Kong?

(29:49):
No, like we saw it under construction but never actually
completed. We've seen plenty of photos, but
it's never. Been out there listening to this
right now, OK. And you feel in some way, shape
or form the opportunity to provide some funding that would
allow for perhaps some babysitting for a little while

(30:10):
or, you know, maybe travel babysitting to send these lovely
people back to the project that they were part of.
It will happen. You know, you can reach out.
It will. Happen one day, I'm sure.
It's appreciate. It it's definitely built to last
that building. Yeah, I'm not so worried.
Yeah. So, so we were there for three
years and then we decided to come back to Toronto and that's

(30:33):
where our, you know, I would sayour new path kind of started.
And this whole time your parentswere still.
Living here, Yes, my parents were living.
Here, and your and your parents.My parents are both in the
states. They're both in the States.
The coast, one in California andone.
Maryland, OK, Yeah. So part of the decision was to
come to be closer to our families and to start a family

(30:57):
and to start a practice. That was always been our
ambition and we've been discussing it for years and
years and years. And at some point we have to
make a active decision. And so coming back was was very
strategic. It was about choosing a location
where we want it to be. It was about starting a process

(31:20):
of getting licensed and so forthbecause even though we were
logging hours, you have to at some point commit to a certain
location and then regaining contacts.
I've been gone for a decade since growing up in Toronto.
There was never grew up in Toronto.
She kind of took a jump, you know.
Yeah, I never late. Never lived here before.

(31:43):
I mean, I've never I've never been, I've never lived anywhere
in front. So I'm somewhat sheltered to it,
to the rest of what the world is, but understanding the
timeline. So you left Toronto Went.
Well, I, I left. So I, I grew up in Toronto and
then I went to Rome. I did 2 years of high school in

(32:04):
Rome, then to Chicago. Yeah.
So two years in Chicago. So 11 is 11 and 12.
That was also an architectural kind of great, great place to be
Frank Lloyd Wright, Sullivan andthen came back to Toronto
undergrad, then went to LA. So do you remember what year was
the? Yeah, it was 2007, OK.

(32:26):
Yeah. So.
So you were gone from 2007 pretty much until almost 2017?
Correct. It was 10 years exactly.
OK. Thinking of what?
When I drive through the city, I'm thinking of what changed in
that time. Frame option and there was a lot
of change. Yeah, I've been coming back and
visiting. Yeah.

(32:47):
Four years of our construction. Yeah, yeah.
Absolutely. Had.
We had at one point. I know that the only other city
that had more cranes than us, itwas Dubai.
Yeah. We also, I think we had a number
one spot for several years now. Yeah, we held in Northern North
America. Yeah.
So then, for anyone listening, there's just some factual

(33:07):
information on Toronto longer #1.
No, I doubt it. Yeah.
So sadly, yeah. OK.
So, so 2017 you returned to whatlike some in some capacity at
home? Yeah, so Bruce kindly accepts my

(33:28):
I went to him looking for a job.He took me in Alaris.
We had discussions about how we wanted to manage this, you know
and we wanted one person to really focus on the business
right away and somebody out to get licensed in Ontario.
And so because I had started that process already many years

(33:50):
ago and I had accumulated made sense that I would carry that
through. And so I kind of took a job with
KPMB, which was very happy aboutand had an exceptional couple
years there, four years, learneda ton, contributed to some great
projects, built some projects and got licensed during that
time. In the meantime, Laras.

(34:12):
Yeah, I was doing a number of things.
I was also working on licensure,so I had started logging hours
towards licensure in the states.Just because that's.
Where I've been from and at the time had no idea that eventually
end up in Canada. So that's where I completed my
licensure. So I'm actually licensed in New
York State and so it's doing that.

(34:34):
I was also teaching. So I started teaching as a
sectional lecturer at, at Daniels and also at what is now
TCU before eventually just focusing solely on Daniels.
And that's why I now teach as a assistant professor in the
teaching stream there. And I also, so she started the
practice, but it was a very slowlaunch.

(34:55):
I would say at the time because neither of us was licensed.
We were really working on international competitions and
kind of small conceptual projects.
So we're some of those international competitions where
they look like. Yeah, 1 was a museum.
Korea. Yeah, one was in in Norway.
Yeah, 1 Was this for a small like event space?

(35:16):
A couple event spaces, one outside Chicago, one in
Vancouver even I think. Yeah.
And were you, were you, were youworking on these just
yourselves? Yeah, well, there's two of us,
mainly hilarious, and I would support as I could.
Yeah. Maybe on weekends.
Sometimes we'd collaborate, and we still like to collaborate
actually with our friends who have their own architectural

(35:38):
practices. So that's a model we've kind of
stuck with from the beginning. And so was it.
In 2013 you started Studio. Avaro not.
Official. But yeah, I guess I feel like we
had a slow launch. We were, I had started doing
some work under that name, but not let's say it was mostly

(36:00):
architectural competitions as I was saying.
And then it wasn't until a number of years later that we
really started doing proper workin in Canada.
And at that point in 2022, Francesco left Gate PMB and join
me full time at the practice. And so that's sort of when we

(36:22):
officially feel studio viral as it is today, was founded.
So what is the definition of Vara?
It's a secret Atlanta and Rogers, so it's kind of the 1st
2 letters of our last names, butit's reconfigured to sound a bit

(36:45):
abstract and. Abstract enough that I didn't
know. Yeah, but it has meaning.
But it's it's a bit abstract. It was a big discussion in
architecture, what you name yourself.
And I don't know if ever anybody's ever happy really with
their name, but at some point you've gotten grow into.
You just have to commit and. Grow into it.

(37:08):
Well, and also I think that there are and I've spoken to a
number of practices that have put their full names into the
practice and then as they get tothe point where they looking
succession, then they have to rename practice and just go
through all of the marketing campaign.
Yeah, retraining yourself. Yeah, exactly.
Yeah. We're not quite to the point
where we're thinking about succession yet, but yeah.

(37:30):
You are succession proof. Yeah, Did we did want something
that I guess was representative more of like ethos than an idea,
rather than being associated immediately with the name of the
founder. I mean, obviously there was, you
know, great examples on both sides, you know, and I think at
some point it's what you make ofit, you know, and the work, it's
really at the end of the day of the work that counts, the name,

(37:53):
you know, follows the quality ofthe work.
Right. So, so, So what did it look like
when you left? What were what were some of
these inception projects lookinglike?
Because instead of being competitions in order to be
viable, you obviously have something so.
There were a few red small residential projects that
started coming online and that because of the approach we take

(38:18):
or just too much work for one person really because of, you
know, just take a holistic approach, look at everything we
do, the interiors as well, and it's just a lot of work and.
With these renovation projects. Renault new build 1 was kind of
started as a Renault ended up being a new build.

(38:39):
But yeah, I would say overall there they were either like
extensive renovations like full got Renaults underpinning and
roof rebuilds or new build kind of style.
So they were not that small actually.
We're very lucky to actually start like that because often
you start with just doing like akitchen or bathroom or a room.

(39:02):
I mean, we did our own kitchen, but I don't think that counts.
So, so this was actually a really big learning experience
for us because we came from working on very large projects,
teams of 40 plus, you know, manymuseums, cultural projects,
towers, residential towers, KPMB.

(39:24):
On emotional decision makers. Yeah, yeah, yeah, different.
Lately is different in residential.
It is. It is.
So how did you, how did you win these projects?
How did they come to you? How did they know who you were?
Yeah, I mean actions. Yeah, really.
That's why it took a while, but took a long.
Didn't really know that many people when you first moved

(39:45):
here. So it took us a few years to
really build up a network of people who knew and trusted us.
So it's our first project was kind of a nice story maybe like
our very first project was we wemet, we became friends with with
a couple. And they're the ladies brother

(40:09):
and his partner had this cute little bungalow and they wanted
to redo it. And so we met with them like
really early on when we moved back to Toronto, maybe a couple
years in, gave a proposal and then it was kind of like thank
you, but no thank you. And that was fine.
And, and then a couple years later they came back saying

(40:34):
we're desperate. We we work with this other
architect who they went for instead of us.
I asked, was it perhaps that that other architect was
charging less? I, I don't even know.
I mean at this point I don't even, I imagine, I don't even
remember what our fee was. But it's probably pretty
competitive at the time because we're just starting.

(40:56):
Out business. There was, um, anyway, and they
came back and they said, you know, they designed this thing
and we're not really, we're not happy at all with it.
And we got the approval. So they got CVA approval for it.
So can you help us? And I said, oh, OK.
Well, you know, we were obviously a bit taken aback by
this request, of course, but we were also, you know, ready to

(41:21):
take the challenge. And it turned out to be an
extremely, I would say, educational moment.
I think especially for me, I wasvery taken aback as I mentioned
about this, this, this coming inand modifying somebody else's
work, first of all. And then there's obviously a bit
of ego involved. You know, use us and now you

(41:44):
want us to fix it. Well, so put all that aside, I
think is the lesson there, because you never know what
great opportunity can emerge from something.
And that's what I would tell my my younger self and I'm glad we
did it. We kind of did.
I think a lot of it was also just hilarious is like
influence. I think that's why also being
too and working as a team is extremely beneficial to have

(42:07):
often a kind of counterpoint to maybe your initial instinct to
question to really consolidate. So Long story short, we wanted
to do it professionally. We reached out to that
architect. We actually reached out to the
OAA, also informed them about that.
He was totally fine, he had no issue.
And then we went back to them and said we're happy to help

(42:29):
you, but we didn't know what this was going to look like.
Sorry, cutting you off. I can't think of a scenario
where I've heard of a story likethat where you are presented
with the opportunity and then with the level of integrity to
go and speak to the other practice and open up potentially

(42:51):
a can of worms at the oak. Yeah.
I mean, for us it was really, maybe it was being kind of young
and naive, but maybe it was driven by fear, I don't know.
I mean, it's also you want to doit properly and that's, that's
what we learned also working in all the offices we worked that
if you're going to do something,you have to do it properly.

(43:13):
I think if the situation were reversed, we would expect
someone to come to us. So you.
Sure, yeah. You don't know?
Yeah, human condition is a. It's a funny thing, yeah.
Sure. And once that was all cleared,
we basically started incrementally stripping this
project of every single element that we thought was not needed

(43:37):
was editing process until the result was somehow what we could
do within still these very real constraints which weren't
approved envelope and massing that we couldn't modify too
much. But it's very paired back and it
became really about a single material brick that was made in

(43:57):
Belgium by hand. And it it became a very
enigmatic form that we think is representative of our practice,
even though the first. Project was represented in.
Practice. We think so in many regards.
Yeah. Because rare.
Yeah, because it tried to. Even working within an existing
constraint, there's always existing constraints, whatever

(44:19):
they are. In this case it was an envelope
massing. Oslo.
This other architect having donethis.
So that's a constraint. Somebody else had basically done
the core setup that we wanted. We wanted to do.
We want to always do the massing, obviously.

(44:40):
So we weren't able to do that, but we could still shape it I
think in a way that was meaningful.
And I think in that sense, we turned out great and we were
happy, and it's unrecognizable from what it was before.
And the clients are quite happy too, which is great.
So it's it was a win, win. So it goes to show there's,
there's never kind of a impossible, you know, setup if

(45:05):
you go in kind of patient. I think patience is the key in
listening and are willing to do things incrementally.
I think the results can be surprising.
You know, it's also, it's alwayskind of like a door, you know,
So even if you check your ego tothe side and you say, you know,

(45:25):
so we always try to listen. That's now you know, you have to
listen and see where the opportunities are and figure out
what path you can take to get tothe end.
That makes everybody kind of happy with the result because
ultimately we're in a service profession.
We want to make the clients happy here.

(45:47):
On the other hand, we have a responsibility to our own
practice and to the profession to do stuff that's meaningful
and that doesn't always necessarily align on day one.
So you have a back and forth, it's a discussion, and there's
never one solution. There's always many solutions.
So I'm curious to know from yourperspective, because you were

(46:10):
involved in this project in the beginning, right?
Yeah, you. Yeah, I came in midway, OR.
So I think because you just talkabout checking ego, and I feel
like one of the hardest things to do is to raise your hand and
say like, I need help potentially.
So you're involved in this project and you're involved in
the detailing and what it's gonna look like as you try to

(46:31):
take it over. What were some of the challenges
that you saw in front of you that said like, I want want to
just come and join you? Sure.
I think we're we're quite complimentary in our skill sets,
yeah. And I think we found a good way
of working together. So I think we can both work
independently, but we're stronger together.

(46:53):
So what we do now in the practice is I, I often tend to
focus on the kind of earlier phases of work.
I deal a lot with, you know, theclients and the city as well
permitting. Exactly.
Well, and the rigor you have to be very precise.

(47:13):
Yeah, very precise, detail oriented with all the.
Good communication. Yeah, exactly.
And then, but I obviously I still stay, I stay involved in
the projects at at all phases. But typically Francesco gets
more involved and he's also involved, you know, in the early
design stages, but he gets much more involved during
construction. He's just really good at kind of

(47:35):
problem solving on site, things like that.
For those of you that don't understand that brief point
earlier about drawings that are submitted to the city and the
importance of the detailing, is that in the city of Toronto, if
you happen to make a mistake when your drawings and the city
catches it, it's not like you can just go back to the city.

(47:56):
Like sometimes they're gonna actually send you back to the
beginning, which would have a serious hardship and strain on
the client relationship. Yeah, you never know what you're
gonna get in any interactions with the city.
So no idea. Better just to be prepared.
And yes, yeah. Well, and, and to be able to
foster those relationships in the city, yeah, Examiner or

(48:19):
whatever it's gonna be, you developed with relationships and
they're strong, then you can actually sometimes move things
forward. Yeah, yeah, it's, it's, it's,
it's, it's good to know. And so do you feel like you,
cause you said it, that first project you felt like was
indicative of what you wanted for the practice and the way
that it works, what it represents?

(48:41):
Do you often or do you ever sendnew perspective clients to go
and look at a previous project right now you say go drive past
it. Yeah.
I mean, I don't think that, you know, that project was was a
success given the complexities that that we outlined.
Yeah, I think it allowed us to. Every project is an opportunity

(49:03):
to test different things, right.And many of those things were
successful. Now it didn't, you know, at the
time it didn't meet, let's say, or greater ambitions of doing
everything because there was also a limitation to the budget
or the interest of the client. They had done certain things
already, you know, or purchase certain things.

(49:24):
So we didn't have, let's say theoverall control that we try to
have. Some of the bathrooms were done
by them and so forth. And that's fine, you know, and
so I think that one was really the the aspects that we were
allowed to touch, we were very happy with OK.
And our next projects after thatincrementally became more and

(49:49):
more holistic. And our most recent one, which
is this rationally house, which were very proud of, I would say
really showcases our philosophy as as a practice.
So what is it about that has youfeel encapsulated that's so
well? Yeah, I can start.

(50:09):
I mean, the, you know, it's a Renault first of all, so it has
the complexity of working withinan existing condition.
Yeah, it was, it was quite complex because of the
neighborhood. It's in Rafanelli.
The neighborhood definitely cares about the expression of
their houses. There was oppositions, yeah, to

(50:32):
the Committee of Adjustment, butthis, the strategy was to have
the House appear virtually unchanged from the outside but
completely restructured internally.
So the basement out of form and a half foot underpin ground
floor was dropped. 10 foot ceilings now on the ground
floor, 9 on the 2nd, 9 plus on the third.

(50:54):
Roof line didn't change, so everything was restructured
internally. I was looking to do what you
just talked about, contemplated it.
Sorry, no, just cause we, when we record this, we do, we do, we
try to do as much, I try to do as many of these recordings in
my house and cause just being inperson doing this is important.

(51:16):
So to that point, it's really what I wanted to do.
And it was, it was a huge effort, huge undertaking to just
get the, the new kind of structure of the house where you
wanted it. And then on top of that, we just
have the. Yeah, that already ate up quite
a bit of the budget portion of structural gymnastics.
Yeah, all that done. Yeah, I wanted to.

(51:38):
Yeah. That's the only thing that I
think about in my own house right now.
Sorry. And and then the clients just
had the kind of trust, but also the the kind of curiosity I
would say to explore different materials that are maybe not so
common. So the whole ground floor is in

(51:59):
concrete with these monolithic elements that come out of the
floor like the horror of the TV console.
There was a bench in the in the kitchen.
And, you know, the clients shapethese projects in unexpected
ways. And each project that takes on a
kind of quirky or different, youknow, atypical nature is

(52:22):
generally from client input to some degree.
You know, I mean, they didn't want a dining room.
So there was no dining room in this house.
There's just a booth built into the kitchen we've had.
Other washroom, they we initially proposed a separate
powder room from their primary washroom and we had placed the

(52:42):
kind of more conventional wall mounted sink in there and they
didn't want any sink protruding into the space.
So it had to be kind of flush with the wall.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
So we we were sitting down and thinking how to give the client
what they wanted. And that's how we ended up
developing this, this custom recessed triangular sink in the

(53:07):
powder room that's expressed as a triangular column in the
primary that kind of splits the vanity into.
And it created a kind of really interesting geometric
interlocking configuration between the two spaces where you
don't know when you're in the primary and you see this column,
you don't really know why it's there, what it's doing.

(53:28):
And it kind of is revealed to you as you go into the powder
room. It was kind of a nice moment
that we thought sort of this kind of odd fun element that we
would not have just proposed on our own, right.
It really came through kind of feedback and pushed back from
the client. So we really enjoyed moments
like. That so I guess one of the

(53:49):
things we'll say about when I dothis is that I will look at a
high level through some projectsand I never try to go too deep
because if I go to depend on formula, three of my opinions
are like you have this conversation actually.
So can I ask is this project complete now?
Yes. This photograph, yes.
So I would recommend, if you're listening to this again, while

(54:10):
you might want to venture over to their website, we're gonna
feature some of the work, too. I'm assuming we would probably
feature this broad. Sure.
Yeah. So you can check out Instagram
and understand what this image will look like, what you're
currently trying to visualize inyour mind.
You'll see the actual image of what looks like.
It sounds pretty. Trying to find the right word

(54:30):
for it and I apologize. Well, it sounds pretty kickass.
Yeah. Well, it's, you know, it's a
good word. What was nice is that you take
what is a sync and it turns intoa really spatial integral part
of the house. And that's what we always try to
do. So we, we never try to just do a

(54:52):
closet or just do a sync or justdo an island.
It has to be something that is more than just its initial
function, otherwise it's not worth doing.
So that's where this project, I think really showcases the
potential of that and that we were allowed to do every level
of the house. It comes together kind of as a

(55:15):
holistic vision concept, right? And this language of curves and
sharp angles together which appear in the stair, in the
millwork, and have this kind of directionality as well as
softness. Usually right through the
projects. Yeah.
How how they engage with spaces.You're looking between the sharp

(55:37):
angle and soft angle. I need to think about it.
I know this sounds so silly and kind of hung up as you described
this this recessed singing, but when you think about how to
rooms in totality, you're generally always in some way
moving around the sink position somewhere so that it's not not a

(56:00):
part of the pathway, but it's still.
On the side, yeah, so. Usually small rooms, so a
projecting sink becomes a big obstruction.
So, so I'm now really, yeah, just changes the concept of what
that. Yeah, it does.
Yeah, they'll engage with anyonethat's in be a guest of that
house and completely different way.

(56:22):
It's absolutely. OK.
So you are now landing the typesof projects that you feel are
really in line with what you're looking for, which kind of takes
me to the next phase of this conversation and where we met in
person just not long ago. And I say that because based on

(56:44):
timeframe between the recording,when it comes out, there will be
time. So I bet you would event on
Friday, share with us what that event was and really how special
that event is given where you'reat in your careers.
So Friday night was a big momentfor us.
It was the launch of our our book that Studio Varo and

(57:08):
Gabriel Fine Architects collaborated on called
Impossible Toronto on the Courtyard.
Yeah, I left that part at the beginning intentionally.
Yes, thank you. Here it is.
So as a practice, we'd always wanted to do research.
And about a year ago the opportunity came up.
Gabriel approached us. He said he'd, he'd heard that

(57:29):
the NEPIS Foundation was lookingfor proposals, ideas that would
fall under the umbrella this, this idea of Impossible Toronto.
And so we met with Zoe, heard her out.
Zoe is the kind of one of the heads of the Neptis Foundation
and eventually proposed the ideaof looking at the courtyard

(57:51):
housing typology that is common throughout the world.
But we we were looking specifically in Europe just.
Yeah, exactly. We, we happen to live in a
courtyard block in, in Basel when we were there for the those
three years. And it was a, an apartment and
kind of a housing typology that we love that you don't find in

(58:13):
most of North America. So our idea was to kind of study
why. And Zoe wanted something with a
project with great visuals. So the idea was to design A
courtyard block for Toronto and visualize it.
And she was on board with the idea.
She's been a great supporter of,of everything you've been doing
ever since. So there's about 8:00 or so

(58:36):
months of research and design, and then the work on the book
itself, which was quite an undertaking.
He had blocked the design for that.
Yeah. And then now there's also a
website Anyway, so everything came together and there was a
launch for specifically the book, but also the website on
Friday evening. And yeah, we think the, we're,

(58:57):
we're really happy with both theresearch and design as well as
the book. And we, we ourselves learned a
lot about about housing both globally and also in Toronto and
just all the obstacles that present themselves when you want
to do that kind of housing here,so.

(59:18):
I mean, what I find so interesting about this, as you
listen to this, I'm gonna again reference the fact that if you
look in the liner notes from theshow, you'll be able to read the
bio about a letters from Chesco.But at the bottom, you'll see
that there'll be links. So if you're interested in
wanting to get a copy of this book purchase, it would be able

(59:39):
to go to that link at the bottomif you have to go and purchase
the book. I mean, I can tell you I was.
I'm very proud of you. Sweat my credit card on Friday
on the inside of the living room.
That's. Fantastic.
But you can also actually download the PDF of the book for
free, which, yeah, we're encouraging.
That the book, the printed book is a beautiful object.
And yeah, you know, if you're willing to purchase it, I don't

(01:00:02):
think you'll be disappointed. But the mandate also of the
foundation is to distribute thisvery democratically, easily for
everybody. And so it's a great resource, we
think, also for students. And you can download the PDF,
which is a kind of exact digitalcopy of the book on the website

(01:00:23):
as well. I mean, just given what our
field is, you know, we constructat Walden Homes, you design a
lot of what we want to try to dois make them essential.
And again, we don't wanna have waste and cardinal rest of it.
Yeah. But something important like
this, it's important to buy it. You hold it, flip those pages
and those images. Course we we think and there is

(01:00:47):
a lot of you know time went intoalso selecting these references
in Europe. These are these are not random
references, They're offices thatwe respect and think are at the
forefront, a mix of different, you know, kind of sizes of
offices. There are different points in

(01:01:08):
their career. Some are quite young, some are
quite established, but they're all able to do these kind of
projects in Europe where here we're not currently allowed to
do them for various reasons outlined the book.
But I think it allows you to be optimistic, ask questions,
inform yourself. And ultimately, I think that's

(01:01:29):
how you also affect change is through bringing.
Yeah, showing a more appealing reality.
Yeah, which is not just pulled out of thin air, This one that's
established and. Yeah, it exists in many parts of
the world and it's completely financially feasible there
because it's getting built, right.

(01:01:49):
Well, it's feasible here too. I mean, it really is just the
constraints that exist. Yeah.
It's just the, the North American context is, I would say
almost the largest barrier to this.
And you have to understand that Europe has much older and has
developed incrementally over time and it's a population and

(01:02:12):
density question. And in North America, if you
think, you know, it's not so oldand there is abundance of land.
But at the end of the day, we dolive in urban centres and we
want to keep them somewhat contained and not just allow
them to sprawl everywhere. And so as you're working your
way kind of back to the centre, there's only so much land
available. And the way psychologically we

(01:02:36):
envision a built form on land isobsolete.
It's that of the single family house, it's that of the settlers
cabin on a piece of land that has four stakes and some
strings. So now you increase the density
to, you know, like a six Plex and you're still treating it as
this cabin on a field with setbacks on all sides,

(01:03:00):
tremendous waste of space and ultimately, I think lack of
vision or ballistically of what a great city can be.
And so, you know, we often talk amongst ourselves, but you know,
I think definitely like the sideyard setback is.
Should be the first thing we love to see go to.
Go and the case study site, because it's a very real

(01:03:24):
question that people have concerns about because we're so
used to being houses with side windows, although there was few,
generally there are what are youlooking at?
Another you're looking at, you're looking at a wall or to
somebody else's house. And then many of these houses,
especially on the case study site that we selected, have
already blank walls or are literally just one right up to

(01:03:46):
the other. So there's no real reason to
stick by this antiquated zoning idea.
These narrowed deep building configurations which often lead
to narrow and deep apartments, which lead to very little
daylighting into the units. That's that's where I was going.
You are one. Yeah, exactly.

(01:04:07):
Like the the all the precedents,the case studies that we were
looking at tend to have wider shallower units, so more
daylighting and views either towards the street or towards
the rear courtyard rather than to your side neighbors.
So ultimately it's just a different reallocation of space.
It's not that they're necessarily occupying more or

(01:04:28):
less of the kind of footprint onthe site, but just using space
differently and we think more efficiently.
And for anyone out there that ispotentially listening to this
and talks about the idea of how they like when new developments
go up and they're gonna now get shade and there's so much
discussion about shade. I personally like shades, so

(01:04:51):
doesn't in the summer I sort of run, yeah, I run from one shady
spot to the next. So I'm approached, I would say.
But in the in the concept, in context of having a courtyard,
you still now are bringing the opportunity for light into an
area. Yeah, it's a larger area.

(01:05:11):
Exactly right. It's sort of.
Consolidating the green space rather than having it small
patches kind of throughout a site on front and back.
This way it's one large quartered area which can also
serve as a community amenity. Yeah.
Big piece of it is also the landscape which we had Mark Ryan
from public where? He's.

(01:05:32):
Generously offer his input and time.
And I think what's particularly revealing and what, what got us
all excited was when he started thinking about it as a, as a one
large bio system, you know, one kind of large sponge that can
absorb water, that can deal withrunoff and heat island and not

(01:05:55):
individual properties. And and that becomes the
amenity. That becomes the amenity, you
know, is the courtyard, you know, being able to have kids,
you know, be in that kind of controlled, you know, contained
safe area with trees and nature.It's fantastic.

(01:06:16):
When a landscape becomes part ofthe architecture, the water
feature needs to feel inherent. That's why we're proud to
partner with the Quantum Pools. Their Italian biodesign system
brings a natural form, sand likeentries and clean lines into
both residential and commercial settings.
A Qantas custom pools are built to merge with context, from

(01:06:36):
luxury hotel resorts to private homes, and they rely on advanced
chemical systems infiltration tomaintain clarity and comfort in
what appears as a free form design.
Whether the project is a backyard haven or a high end
hospitality installation, the team coordinates finish form and
performance, so the pool doesn'tfeel like an add-on, but an

(01:06:59):
integral part of the architecture.
For more details or to start theconversation with Yuri and his
team, e-mail me. It's Jonathan Jonathan at
waldenhomes.ca and I'll be happyto connect you.
But for now, let's go back to the conclusion of this
discussion with Polaris and Francesco.

(01:07:20):
And I think that there are examples of this even in
Toronto. I'd like a lower scale, but not
at this scale and not so kind ofcollective, you know?
I look forward to the to the time when some of the current
regulations see some level of reform and yeah, change and so

(01:07:42):
do we. What is what is deemed currently
as impossible becomes possible and this becomes the catalyst,
hopefully for some of that change that you don't actually
start to think that these thingsare doable.
Sure. Yeah.
I mean, we see ourselves as likepart of there's a larger
conversation going on. It's not like we're the first
only in any way. Oh no, no, I'm just, I wanted to

(01:08:03):
put that out there. But I think that, yeah, when,
when all a lot of architects andplanners and builders and
clients come together and we're all kind of saying the same
thing, hopefully that will beginto have an impact.
Yeah. And we know like already some
issues like the single stair is going to hopefully be approved
shortly. I know you're working on that
now. Yeah.

(01:08:24):
And that's, yeah, that's part ofour, that's part of the
impossible Toronto research, yeah.
But also the general public, I think that's really key is to
get people excited and you want somebody to fall in love with
kind of an idea and a vision. Like in our daily work.
That is always the kind of the turning point when somebody

(01:08:48):
comes with very fixed ideas of their own that maybe we question
or we think they're they're not the right approach.
The the way to counter that is to propose an alternative that
is extremely compelling and appealing.
That's how you make change. That's how you get the project

(01:09:09):
forward. Yeah.
So we might have a client who comes in, they insist on having,
you know, certain type of windowexpression.
We bring a different alternative.
And they never imagined that this could be like that and
suddenly is a green light. If you aren't aren't doing that,
then it's a battle or it doesn'thappen.
So it's a bit the same way. And I think Zoe really

(01:09:31):
understood that, this idea of capturing the imagination of the
public. And there was a very specific
request, as Hillary said, for a lot of images, big images, but
inside and out, you know? To get a visual.
Yeah. And looking at the whole thing
holistically, like on a block wide level.

(01:09:52):
So many of these studies unfortunately due to realities
of funding, time constraints look at just an individual kind
of proposal typology, individualsite or individual site.
And if you were to visualize thekind of Ethan Major St.
Six story massing deployed alongan entire St. on a Major St. you

(01:10:18):
know, it's not really that great.
You have these side yard setbacks, a lot of wasted space,
a front yard that's way too large to do anything in the
backyard that's way too small todo anything narrow units.
I don't think that's how people want to live.
I think you're being forced. You're being forced into this
because there's no other choices.

(01:10:38):
So you. Know, we also thought looking at
the kind of block scale for thisproject was an opportunity to
question some of the municipal servicing like garbage also just
requirements for you know, bike rooms and trash rooms, amenity
space, things like that, which are all kind of each building

(01:10:59):
has a requirement to provide their own facilities for all
this. Our idea was to take that out of
the buildings and put it more onthe within the public realm.
So how for instance block call block wide no.
Garbage collection like centralized.
Centralized garbage Garbage should edit this part of

(01:11:22):
centralized garbage collection on these streets rather than
have trash room in each buildingto kind of free up more space
for living within the buildings themselves.
You know, like bike parking in Europe, it's a mix of bike
parking in the courtyard in front of the building.
Then if you have a $2000 or $3000 carbon fiber bike, they

(01:11:46):
bring it into the apartment or there's a locker in the
basement. You know, so it's it's the city
just is forcing extremely specific prescriptive
requirements on smaller projectsand not allowing them to almost
meet them or like performance based, you know, it's like you
need to have this many bike parking spots, but you can maybe

(01:12:08):
decide. And then it's so prescriptive,
like visitor and non visitor andall of you know, it's just
meeting quotas, meeting numbers,you know, and and it puts a lot
of pressure on these small, quite fragile buildings that are
not large buildings that can't absorb, not to mention about pad

(01:12:29):
mount Transformers and things like that.
I mean so. So question for you that we
didn't actually really I, I didn't get into, but I, I lost
now the general quote, most of the projects that you have from
my understanding, the residential projects.
Do you look at other typologies?Yeah.
And we were working on a commercial project that was

(01:12:51):
rather large scale, unfortunately because the
economy, the office market is terrible.
So that went on hold. But yeah, we're we're again
because our experience is in large projects in a kind of
variety of cultural, you know, programs where we really have
wide-ranging interests and is a practice we'd like to.
I always joke I'd like to do 1 of everything so.

(01:13:13):
We're What's the next one you wanna do want?
Well, we'd love to do this and that's part of the issue, which
I don't think we'll have the time to get into.
But let's say we'd love to do a school, but good luck doing a
school here as a young practice.It's impossible.
It's not part of the procurementstrategy.
You can never ever get through the RFP process, so we pursue.

(01:13:36):
Listening. Well, that's, that's another
thing on the side that we're private schools exist, right,
It's true. But you know, in Switzerland,
for example, all schools are mostly awarded through
competition that are anonymous. So we pursue work in Switzerland
and in Europe in general. And you know, I think we live in

(01:13:58):
a very challenging place for small young offices and I would
say single family, residential, small multi unit and some
commercial is kind of the Obama what you're given, what you can,
what you're given. And then the rest is like good
luck and see you in 40 years. OK, well, we, I mean, look, we

(01:14:23):
have covered a ton, which has been pretty amazing.
It's kind of weird to me when you get to the point, you know
the end of this where you like. OK, so summarize your.
Life, yeah. What do you what do you like to
do as a part of your life now for enjoyment and fulfillment
that is not associated with architecture?
What are some of your hobbies? What are some of the things that

(01:14:46):
you like to pursue We. Had hobbies, now we just have
children so yes. I love to cook and to travel and
to to. Traveling we're not doing quite
as much as we used to, but cooking still, yes.
Regularly. Yeah.

(01:15:06):
You know what? Oh yeah, fantastic.
Yeah. You know, I think it's a.
Are there any places I'm interrupting?
Are there any places that are hiring your list of of track on
travel? I mean, part, part of The thing
is we, we've, we've been extremely fortunate to travel a
lot already. And so although we're eager to

(01:15:29):
do it again, and we have been doing it also with our kids, but
it's not the same. Don't have this, I would say
this urgency for, for it as if we hadn't done as much traveling
as we we had, especially when wewere living in Asia and Europe.
I mean, we were all over the place.
Every three or four months we take a four day trip somewhere

(01:15:50):
new. So that was six years of travel
in Asia and Europe. So so now we don't feel like
we're missing out on anything necessarily and we're just kind
of trying to keep our lives as simple and easy as possible.
I think most of our focus is on our kids and on our practice and
that those two things are reallylike a full time.

(01:16:13):
Two full time jobs, yeah. Yeah.
And, you know, the rest is just kind of, you know, it comes, it
comes and goes. Yeah, Yeah.
So. OK.
Well, I gotta tell you, I appreciate you taking time to do
this. It's a pleasure to meet you on
Friday and feel that we were able to set this up in advance
of that and be able to share. Yeah, to do this, I've learned a

(01:16:36):
lot. I cannot.
I honestly, I can't believe how much travel and what experiences
you've had with regards to whereyou are now and they've been
able to share all of that together is I think an
incredibly unifying trait that not many couples get to share.
For sure, yeah. Yeah.
I agree. I appreciate you opening up that

(01:16:57):
all. Your.
Pleasure. Thanks so much for having us
here. Yeah, it's been great.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.