Behind the Build: Andrew Kline - Workshop APD

Andrew Kline, Principal at Workshop APD, joins Behind the Build to share a career built on craft, risk, and mentorship. Raised in rural Ohio, his creativity was first inspired by his grandfather, a graphic artist, and nurtured by art teacher Lois Bachman, who encouraged him to pursue art school. After studying at Columbus College of Art & Design and completing a master’s at Cranbrook Academy of Art, Andrew developed a practice that merges fine art, interiors, and architecture into a holistic design approach.

His early career began at L Brands, where he gained experience in corporate retail and international rollouts, followed by Yabu Pushelberg, where he worked on large-scale hospitality projects and honed his narrative-driven design process. In 2016/17, Andrew joined Workshop APD—then about 30 people—as its first Design Director. He helped reshape the studio, introduce new leadership structures, and strengthen its culture. Since then, the firm has grown to nearly 100 professionals, with offices in New York and Minneapolis and satellites in Greenwich, Nantucket, South Florida, Los Angeles, California, and Colorado. Today their portfolio spans high-end residential, multifamily, hospitality, commercial interiors, and product design.

Workshop APD’s hospitality work now includes projects from Manhattan and Martha’s Vineyard to Times Square and the award-winning Moxy Banff hotel in Canada. At the same time, the studio expanded into product design—licensing collections with industry partners and launching Workshop Collection, a trade line with its own showroom. Its multidisciplinary model proved resilient during the pandemic, pivoting toward residential projects as demand surged.

Now a Principal, Andrew balances creative direction with business development, client engagement, and mentorship. Education and professional growth are embedded in Workshop APD’s culture, with initiatives ranging from leadership development and knowledge transfer to book clubs and creative team programs. For Andrew, guiding both projects and people defines the work. Outside the studio, he recharges through DIY projects, ceramics, travel, and time in Jersey City with his two dogs.

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Episode Transcript

(00:09):
Welcome to Behind the Build. I'm your host, Jonathan Jacobs,
and today on the program have a gentleman from New York City
practice whose work is award-winning both from a
national perspective and international perspective,
having won multiple awards, including the most recent award

(00:29):
for their hotel in Banff, Canada.
Despite the fact that they're inAmerica, that was the HD award
and hospitality design for theirMoxie Band hotel.
Today I have with me Andrew Klein of Workshop A PD.

(00:53):
Hi, Jonathan. Andrew, thanks for joining.
Thank you so much for having me.Before you hear more I just
gotta tell you this really funnystory.
So today I was rushing taking mydaughters to a program.
At the end of the day I had a quick turn around time but
dinner still had to happen. I boiled water and minutes later
passed, was ready. That's induction at work.

(01:15):
It's real life. It's time driven in a crunch and
I think back in my old electric range and pasta in 15 minutes.
Not really possible with induction.
It's reality, and if I step awayfrom it, I don't have to worry
about my kids burning themselves.
On the surface, Kaplans carries the best Wolf Melee, Jennair

(01:38):
Fisher and Pikel and more. If you want to connect with a
Caplans Rep, I'm happy to make that introduction Reach out to
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Jonathan at waldenhomes.ca and I'll introduce you to someone
there and you'll find out why after decades, they've been
serving us and our clients so well, and you'll get that same

(01:59):
experience for yourself. Now let's get back to Andrew.
So I want to just give some basic background to Workshop a
PDF for those that are unaware. They've got offices in New York
City and Minneapolis and satellite offices in Greenwich
and Nantucket and South Florida and LA and California and
Colorado. There's over 90 people at the

(02:21):
practice and they are designing not only for the United States,
but as I just mentioned, Canada and internationally.
So Andrew, who's with us today, is a principal and has a long
history both not not only in Workshop PD, but in design in
general. So, Andrew, thank you for taking

(02:43):
time out of your day to be joining me.
Here, of course, I love your podcast.
Thank you. So I, I always like to start
things off with this basic question and that is at a young
age, what was it for you that kind of sparked your interest in
curiosity and design or art or science or math?

(03:05):
What was your inspiration early on?
Yeah. You know, what's funny is I feel
like this is my favorite question that you ask because
I'm always wondering how people get their start.
And when you look back at your life, I think it kind of changes
when you're in it. You don't really know why you're
being drawn to certain things, but looking back at it, all of
the creativity started with my grandfather, who was an artist.

(03:27):
And artist. He was a graphic artist.
He did really cool, like prints,but also worked in advertising
back in the day. Kind of, you know, the mid
century madman kind of guy, but not high stakes.
New York, but he was in Ohio andMichigan.
And yeah, I think that's where the creativity came from.

(03:49):
He passed away when I was reallyyoung, but I think that kind of
creativity kind of transcends generations.
And my mom was always super crafty because she got that
interest from her dad, but she never pursued it professionally,
but she made sure that it was a big value for us growing up.

(04:10):
And so in A at a very early age,she had me in drawing lessons
after school and, you know, doing kind of crafts with her,
like basket weaving and things like that, that she was
interested in. And that was kind of the where I
caught the bug, I guess for creativity, for artistry.
Do you, do you have like these any recollections of like how

(04:31):
old were you when your when yourgrandfather passed away?
I was like 3 or 4. So I never got to like, explore
creativity with him. But throughout my life,
everybody was always like, Oh mygosh, you're, you're Jerry.
You're like your grandpa Jerry. Like he was a very creative
person. So when I would, you know, start

(04:53):
to get involved in painting, I was really into art school or
art classes in school. They would be like, Oh yeah,
Jerry would paint like that or, you know, things like that.
So do you have any of these recollections from your youth
where you would you would use some piece of art, whether as a
painting or drawing or somethingand like, did it make it to the

(05:13):
fridge? Or was this the kind of thing
where like your room was coveredwith the on the walls with with
your art? Or was it in a duo Tang or a
folder like well, how did how did you enjoy your own work?
Well, I don't really remember asa young kid, definitely on the
fridge and like my mom had like stacks of it, kind of, you know,

(05:33):
keep what's really good and kindof you got to get through all of
the stuff you make in elementaryschool.
But I just remembered art alwaysbeing my favorite subject and
then taking drawing classes after school was one of the
things I loved the most. And then when I really got into
high school, that's when I was like, oh, this can be something.

(05:57):
And I think everybody has that one teacher who really guides
them, and mine was Lois Bachman.Thank you, Lois.
She was my art teacher and she just created a really like great
safe place for the creative kids.
And I would try and spend as much time as I could in her Art

(06:18):
Room. And I always thought I was going
to be a fine artist, not an architect or a designer.
Do you remember what the room looked like?
Like if you walked into that room, did you find them in
classroom was to the left or didyou walk in?
In classroom was to the right orwas it a long classroom with the
door in the centre? It was light.

(06:40):
What was it like? Lots of light.
It was a corner room on the 3rd floor.
This building doesn't exist anymore.
It was torn down, unfortunately,very like old high school.
And yeah, I'm, I can't remember what colour it was.
I think it was pale yellow. I remember where the sinks were
and like cleaning out brushes. I remember like, you know, no

(07:04):
AC, windows open, breeze coming through the room.
But what's interesting about Lois is she was also my
elementary art teacher. So I went to a very small
school, Montpelier. OH, Montpelier exempted village
schools. And I graduated with like the
same 95 people that I started kindergarten with.

(07:25):
I still friends from preschool. Shout out to my friends from
preschool, Nikki Claim in particular.
And like people that like, I started this journey with that I
was, you know, all the way through senior year.
And yeah, so Lois was actually my first, second, third grade
art teacher. And then she, during the time I

(07:47):
was in middle school, moved to the element to the high school.
And then when I got to high school, she was also my art
teacher there. Wow.
So. So you saw the evolution of her
as a teacher, while she saw the evolution of you and.
She was already an expert. She actually retired the year I
graduated. And, you know, I remember her
coming to my graduation party and we had a lot of my artwork

(08:10):
up. We did a little like show of my
artwork. And it was like so impactful to
have her there. And she's the one who convinced
me that I could go to art school.
Just before we hear a little more, I gotta tell you, you know
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(08:32):
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(08:53):
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(09:15):
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Now back to Andrew. So in my junior year, I've been

(09:41):
talking with her about like, what I wanted to be when I grow
up. And I was like, I think I want
to be a fine artist, but I'm so afraid of not having a job
because there's a side of me that's so interested in
business. And my dad was a CEO and I get
that from him and blah, blah blah.
And she like, started talking, you know that stuff.

(10:04):
Leave. The business.
So let's think on the creativityside.
I like both, but yeah. And she kind of talked to me and
my parents about, like, what artschool was and that maybe I
should go to art school because I don't know that I had
awareness of that growing up in a cornfield.
I I think it's really interesting people who first get

(10:25):
introduced to interior design and architecture.
It's like, how did you even knowthat was an option?
Like, I didn't grow up in the kind of lifestyle where we had
an interior designer or that we used an architect, Right.
And Lois kind of opened my eyes for that.
So my junior year of high school, she suggested, I think
it was her, that I go out to Otis School of Art and Design in

(10:49):
LA for their summer program. They do a great high school
summer program and you can kind of pick a major, a major for the
summer right in quotes. Nobody can see my air quotes.
And you go out for like 4 weeks and like being a kid from a
could grow up in a cornfield in Ohio to fly out to LA and live

(11:09):
in a hotel with a bunch of othercreative kids and go to class
all day for four weeks. Like my mind exploded.
I met people who like opened my horizons and socially in
creatively, educationally, and Ijust knew that I had sort of
found my tribe when I went out there tart school as a junior in

(11:33):
high school. And that changed everything.
I came back my senior year and Iwas like, I have to go to art
school. And what's funny was I went out
there to study graphic design. So I thought maybe that was a
way for me to do something creative and also make money,
which hindsight 2020, my grandfather was a graphic

(11:54):
designer. So here I'm like kind of picking
up on this, this idea, but it didn't end up being graphics for
me that I went to Columbus College of Art and Design.
I chose it because they kind of follow the Bauhaus style where
you do a foundation year. So I didn't have to pick a major
my first year because I didn't know what I wanted to do.
It's hard. How can you really know what

(12:17):
that age? I don't think you can.
Yeah, yeah. The big ask.
Yeah, so sorry. Go ahead.
Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, so I, I went to our school
like I, I knew that the, that was sort of my tribe.
And my first year did a foundation year.
And then my second year I actually went into fashion
design. I thought I was going to be a

(12:38):
fashion designer. I wanted to focus on men's wear.
And I realized within the first semester that it wasn't the
right fit for me. And so I started thinking about
what I really loved about art school and how I had previously
thought I wanted to be in graphic design.
And my sister was studying interior design, but she had

(13:01):
moved on to urban planning because interior design was
there on scale for her. And I was like, Oh my gosh,
actually, I think I'm an interior designer because I love
creating compelling presentations, crafting a
narrative. I love 3D space.
I love how you can design A space to evoke an emotion.

(13:22):
And so all these things were kind of, I was sort of realizing
and my school had interior design.
So I transferred into the interior design program and got
my BFA. And we'll go more into what you
just said, but I want to know when you went to the school, did
anyone that you had met in LA join you at that school or were

(13:46):
or and or and or or and anyone from your past and Ohio join you
at that school or was this, wereyou on your own?
I was on my own. I remembered the like terrifying
moment or my parents drove away and I was like, you know, going
back up to my cinder block dorm room and being like, wow, I

(14:10):
don't know anybody here. Which was kind of being an
amazing, being a creative person.
It was like, OK, I can leave, you know, like my whole high
school experience behind and really become the person that
like I want to be here. 1 interesting thing though is I
went to school in Columbus, OH and if anybody's from Ohio, lots

(14:32):
of people go to school in Columbus, OH because of the Ohio
State University. So I had friends from high
school who were in the city, they just weren't at the school
I was at. So enough freedom to really
enjoy Columbus College of Art and Design on my own, but also
people nearby if I needed them. Yeah.

(14:54):
OK. And So what was the experience
like over those, those foundational years of school?
Like did you, do you find that you're drawing upon a lot of
what was gained from your education at that time and has
it evolved? Or do you feel like what you had
learned there was like a generalOK foundation and really didn't

(15:14):
like set you up for what you were expecting?
No, it was an amazing education actually.
And I think I was a very, I still am.
I think that's why like I am a little bit of a workaholic, but
it was kind of an anxious student.
I was very hell bent on making sure I was getting an education
that would set me up for success.

(15:35):
I always had this like anxiety in the back of my mind that was
like, did I pick the right school?
Am I doing the right courses? Am I pushing myself enough to
differentiate myself so that I can be successful when I
graduate? And because my sister went to
University of Cincinnati, they have an amazing program, the DAP
program. And so I was always in the back

(15:56):
of my head being like, oh, should I have gone to USC and is
interior design the right spot for me?
Should I have gotten a degree inarchitecture?
Which I, I then went and got a degree in architecture, but I
did it very unconventionally by I think by getting a BFA in
interior design 1st. And I think it was the best

(16:17):
thing I could have done for me. It allowed me to make my design
practice a continuation of an interest in fine art, which, and
not that there's any wrong way to come to a design practice,
but I think that allowed me to blur the lines between art and
design, which helps you maybe tofree yourself up conceptually.

(16:38):
And what was awesome about the program I went to, it was really
set up to like get you moving when you get hired.
Like it wasn't hyper conceptual,it was about designing real
spaces for real people and having the skills that people
needed when they hired you, making sure that you could work

(16:59):
in the software as of the time. I mean now we don't use those
softwares but if AutoCAD it forms Z was what we were 3D
modeling and back then or the beginnings of SketchUp, maybe a
hand drawing perspectives with markers.
Like things that like got me a job before I was even graduated.
I feel like when you held them marker you felt kind of at home.

(17:22):
Yeah, totally. Yes, because I'd taken colour
concept courses and figure drawing courses and painting
courses. Yeah.
So that was, I think it was a great foundation because it got
me ready to really work. I got hired as an intern before
I had graduated at what's calledEl Brands now.
It was called limited back then.And like I was getting a

(17:45):
paycheck, you know, my last years because I'd switched
majors, I was only part time at school.
I just had to finish my studio. So I was basically able to work
full time at L Brands. And I had those skills to work
in a corporate office and like create presentations for the CEO
and, and coordinate with the great mentors and designers I

(18:07):
got to work with there. And then I was able to say, OK,
now I wanna like explore a larger scale.
And because I graduated in 2008,even though I had that
internship, I was a little bit nervous about the economy.
I was like, it's a good time to continue my education and go to
grad school, and hopefully the economy figures itself out while

(18:29):
I'm there. So that's when I went to
Cranbrook Academy of Art, again,an Academy of art.
I had a really hard time choosing where I wanted to do my
masters program. I thought I was going to go to
UC or Rizzi. And I visited those places and
Pratt and then I visited Cranbrook and it was just such a
weird place and such a unique program that I was like, this is

(18:54):
the right fit for me. And I don't know if you know
anything about Cranbrook, Donathan, but they only accept
like 12 students a year and there's no, no courses.
It's all independent study under, there's no courses.
It's an art Academy and like thetruest sense.
So it has, I don't know, like 8 departments like painting,
sculpture. 2D3D3D is more like furniture based, graphic design,

(19:19):
print making, jewelry making andarchitecture.
And I studied under Bill Massey there.
He was doing a lot of very earlywork in kind of like CNC zip
panels and this idea of more architecture from a technology
point of view. But you really set yourself up

(19:40):
for what you want to study for two years and then you actually
build things with your hands. It's very craft based.
And that was kind of the thing that was the hook.
So like I said, hindsight 2020, when I look back at all these
choices I made, which were terrifying choices back then and
I didn't know why I was making them, they were all tied to
craft at some point. So like my grandfather was an

(20:02):
artist. My mother kind of picked that up
in her. Crafts that she did.
I remember basket weaving with her and her putting me in
drawing courses. And really, the idea that art
was so important to me led me toart school, which led me to an
unconventional masters program in architecture, which

(20:24):
eventually led to New York working for some folks there, Al
Brands, then Yabu Pushelberg, and then I ended up at Workshop,
a PD, which is also very craft based.
We consider ourselves, you know,modernists who enjoy craft.
So I'm going to get to the current role shortly.

(20:45):
I do want to ask you about the experience, Yahoo Pushelberg,
because I know that you're working in hospitality while you
were there. So, So what did that look like
from a design perspective and a travel perspective?
Like everything you had previously done was rooted in
the US. So what would it look like when

(21:06):
you went there and now all of a sudden you're looking at
projects that are well beyond the US And like, did that
include that include travel and immersing yourself in those
cultural experiences? Like what was that like?
Yeah, It's interesting. I actually did a lot of
international work when I was atL Brands before I went to Yeah,
but Pushelberg, because that was, so that was like 2000.

(21:27):
I was like an intern there 2008.Then I graduated from grad
school in 2010 and they brought me to New York and that was when
US brands were really licensing a lot to other countries.
So I did some funny work for them.
I took a Canadian brand called La Senza that they had purchased

(21:49):
and I yeah, I did 13 brands in Australia.
They were a huge success. They stayed open for about 6
months and then they went out ofbusiness.
Rest in peace. Listens to Australia.
So I got to travel a little bit there, but none of the work was
terribly like interesting that Idid at L Brands.

(22:10):
But it was super foundational, and I learned how to communicate
with people in a corporate atmosphere and how to create
systems for people to work together.
And then I went to Yabu Pushelberg, which was like
creative explosion, right? Like, just genius genius.
Cranbrook injected with adrenaline.

(22:33):
Yeah. And, and big budgets.
Yeah. And it was kind of like, Oh
yeah, this is what I want to do.And I worked on a lot of
international projects, but kindof the way the hospitality
projects were structured there, they take so long to design and
build that they never actually got to travel to any of my
projects, unfortunately. But I all of a sudden the scale

(22:57):
was larger, the finesse in storytelling and narrative was
greater, and just the talent of those folks, just being around
them was energizing. And it was an amazing place to
be a young designer. And when I see Blunt and George

(23:18):
today, I always thank them because I'm like, I learned so
much Working in your studios in Glen is a master planner, space
planner. And that's my favorite part of
starting a large project, reallythinking about the guest
experience, particularly in hotels, how someone's going to

(23:39):
move through a space. And I learned so much from him
sitting around a table sketchingwith him.
So an amazing experience. And So what led you from there
now to workshop? Yeah.
So, you know, I was a senior designer at Yahoo, Pushelberg

(23:59):
and some, you know, there's, they've been around for quite a
while and had a really good senior leadership team in place.
And it didn't really feel like there was a growth trajectory
for me. I had kind of talked to them
about wanting to run a team and be a design director there.
And there were some conversations about it, but

(24:20):
there were a lot of really good people at that level.
And so someone reached out to me, a recruiter, and said, have
you ever thought about Workshop APD?
And I didn't really know them atthe time.
So I went and met with Matt and Andrew and I immediately felt
that there was this huge potential at Workshop app

(24:41):
because they were smaller. I think they were just around 30
people at that time, and there was a great energy like I had
felt at Yabu Pushelberg, and there was this.
It was like I could just feel that it was a seedling about to
grow, like it was about to take off.
This firm had a great backgroundand a bright future, and it felt

(25:04):
like some place that I could go and grow the business, mind the
organization side, the design director kind of position, take
that leap from designer into design director and really help
build a team, coalesce a team that was already there.

(25:25):
Yeah, and this was 2017. Yeah.
I think 2016, 2017, yeah, somewhere around there.
And so, so you come into the role and what was the role at
the time that you took on? Called it design director.
It was the, I think the first time they had really hired

(25:46):
someone that was going to fit inthat space between the fabulous
designers and project managers they had and themselves.
So it was a little bit of a tricky situation.
Yeah, I was, there were some people who were like, who is
this guy? Why is he here?
And it was the first time that they had, through my interview

(26:07):
process, we had actually talked a lot about like studio culture
and a lot about studio structure.
And at the time, from what I understand, they were working as
like small project teams, reporting to a principal kind of
all as one larger studio. And so we really spoke about
breaking the studio into two studios and me coming in as a

(26:29):
design director for one of thosestudios.
So I was the first design director, so to speak, that they
had brought in to do that on theinterior architecture,
architecture, interior design, kind of mixed multidisciplinary
studio. And how did that work for you?
Because this is essentially it'sa brand new role.

(26:50):
And what's interesting about it,sorry to cut you off there, but
what's interesting about it was that was the role I had sort of
been searching for it, Yahoo Pushelberg.
At Yahoo Pushelberg at the time,they called him team leaders,
but people who would run a team,creatively directed team
underneath the genius of George and Glenn, and there just wasn't
that space for it. So through conversation with

(27:12):
Matt and Andrew and kind of explaining my interests in
leading creative endeavors, but also being involved in the
business side of things and understanding that was my next
step that they sort of were like, you know what I think that
is missing at workshop. We've talked a lot about
bringing in a level of leadership underneath us.

(27:32):
And and I was able to make that big leap a little terrifying, to
be honest, to like leave such a close knit team that I was on at
Yahoo Pushelberg and sort of my design heroes at Yabu Pushelberg
to go to this firm that I reallydidn't know that much about,
right? But it was I knew it was going

(27:53):
to be a great area for me to grow as a leader in design.
So you when you when you joined,did you have to go ahead and
work on developing the job description for what your role
is going to look like? And yeah, that evolve over the
first few years while you were kind of writing the playbook for

(28:15):
the practice on how things are going to get filtered into you
and what it's going to look likeas it moves up.
And like, what did that look like for you?
Yeah, I would say my time at workshop has been a lot about
collaborating with Matt and Andrew and talking about
structure and building kind of role clarity as well as future

(28:35):
expansion. And the first step was that
design director role, kind of figuring out what that was it.
The first year I remember was a lot of coming up with how we
wanted to organize things like how we're organizing, not only
our project work, introducing some organizational structure
into how we did that, how we were reporting back up to Matt

(28:57):
and Andrew, how work was flowingthrough me and also through
people who used to have, you know, more of a maybe face to
face with them on every day and,and navigating how that changes
culture and also can offend people, you know, walking a
little bit on egg shells. I had to prove myself to a lot
of people who had been there fora long time and they've become

(29:18):
some of my closest collaboratorsand friends since then.
And it was also like a lot of future discussion.
Matt and Andrew have always beenvery supportive and, and they
are visionaries. They've always wanted Workshop
to grow beyond what it was when they started it.
And they purposely named it Workshop because it's not just

(29:41):
their company. They want it to have a growth
for years to come. So meeting people who are
visionaries and want to support that kind of idea was
revolutionary for me at that time in my career.
And we would sit around the table and be like, well, maybe
we should structure teams this way.
And through the years, things change.

(30:02):
Like for a while we had residential interior designers
sitting in my studio. Later we decided that maybe it
was more beneficial to have all the residential interior
designers sit together underneath a different design
director. And that's how it's set up
today. But we kept all the commercial
interior design on our team are on my team that I lead.

(30:25):
And throughout the years, we created an associate level at
workshop APD. We grew from 35 people to where
we are now at 94. And we created multiple studios
with design directors. And we've really elevated this
leadership team underneath the founding principles.

(30:46):
And I've been very lucky to be apart of that and to be a part of
the conversations, to be at the table for some really
interesting perspectives on how to grow a company that I
probably would not have gotten anywhere else.
So it was the right move to make.
You want to hear that answer? I know we're going to get to it

(31:06):
in just a SEC, but first I'm going to tell you about some
strength in steel because steel can be complicated and in my own
home I have HVAC ducts that had to run through a beam. 4
separate openings cut with precision to allow the duct work
to move directly through a steelbeam.

(31:27):
OK, And I turned to Henry Rothberg steel.
Why? Because we've been working with
them for a long time and becauseI knew that the outcome would be
what it was. And that was that.
Rosberg nailed it. Perfect execution.
They delivered Shim plates in every size, gave us the right
contacts for installation, even welding when the timing was

(31:50):
right. And the result?
A house that's solid, no creeks,no cracks, settling, hasn't
touched it. That's Roberg Steel, simply
strong. If you want to learn more, I'm
happy to connect you with Brett and his team. e-mail me
[e-mail] you too can experience what

(32:14):
it is to work with a great team that supports amazing projects.
And now back to Andrew. And when you started with the
practice, what types of projectshad they been taking on?
So Workshop really started as a high end residential
architecture firm that then veryquickly turned into high end

(32:36):
residential architecture and interior design and.
How do you know how that happened like?
Well, you know, I can tell you the most honest way to tell you
is that Matt and Andrew want to touch all scales, right?
It was just a natural progression for them.
They're designing these beautiful spaces.
And so they also want to continue that story that they're
building in the architecture andinterior architecture to the

(32:59):
furniture. So they expanded to that before
I had joined, when I joined, they had just signed their first
hospitality project. So obviously, like bringing
someone from Yahoo Pushelberg who'd been working on
hospitality, like there was a lot of that continuity and, and
idea there, but they were, they had dipped their toes into some

(33:20):
really not dips. They jumped into some
development jobs, multifamily work, doing some really
beautiful work there. So that's another area where I
had worked at Yahoo Pushelberg doing multifamily work.
So it was, it was with that, those project types in mind that
I joined. And one of the things we spoke

(33:41):
about when I first joined was, you know, if we're going to be
serious about hospitality design, we need to get more
serious about product design too.
They've been designing some custom furniture for their
residences, but when you're designing a hotel, you, you want
everything in that guest room tobe a bespoke design that's
unique to that space. And so we very quickly kind of

(34:06):
ramped up the product design side and then decided that we
wanted to start doing more product design for other brands.
So we have tub and vessel with Calista, lighting with our tiers
and so working in licensing withother brands.
And then also a few years ago, we launched Workshop Collection,

(34:28):
which was sort of a dream early on when I started at Workshop
that we've been working towards,which is a collection of
furniture available to the trade.
We have our own showroom in our office and it's stuff that we've
designed for our own projects that we're now making available
to our peers. Right.
So the question on that is this a scenario where you are both

(34:50):
designing and fabricating in a shop that you have or is this
getting? So we we don't have our own
shop. That would be amazing.
Yeah, but their name workshop, yes, I totally agree.
We worked with some great factories in North Carolina,
couple overseas, some vendors inthe Midwest to create our

(35:12):
products. So there's a studio, there are a
couple of studios here in Toronto and one of them has like
2, two or three of them that I now have these little
independent shops that they workon.
So that when they're like tired of working on some of the are
there, their creativity is lacking on some of their
architectural projects that go into their creative projects.

(35:34):
Yes, that that sounds amazing. And hands on and it's just, it's
a different feel. Probably.
I would love that. I I think I get that kind of on
my weekends. I'm a DIY kind of guy.
So I have a place upstate where I'm right now actually.
And there's nothing that makes you understand an on-site

(35:58):
problem like trying to do your own construction project.
I am with you. I I mean in no no real I'm I'm
in the process of building 2 guitars.
Oh wow. And so to your to this point,
like the when you get your handson to it and you going through

(36:20):
that creative process and you have to work on these small
little details to make everything come together.
It's, it's, it's, it's a lot of fun to be able to get to that
kind of stage of already called life or your personal
professional career to just you,you're, you're, you're tapping
into some of those elements of your youth in your mind.

(36:41):
Yeah, totally. At a different stage of life,
it's it's a, it's a nice thing. Pandemic, I started throwing on
pottery, ceramics at Micron NanaHall Studio, and I hadn't done
it since undergrad, which is another cool thing about going
to art school. You can take pottery courses as

(37:02):
electives. And yeah, I think the tactility
of getting out of a screen, hiding your phone for a couple
hours, because that's my favorite thing about pottery,
can't really touch your phone because your hands are all
messy, is really important. It's important for your memory,
first of all. I think we're all starting to
have terrible memories because we can just Google it.

(37:24):
But also, I think it fuels your creativity in a way where all of
a sudden you're thinking about that floor plan a little bit,
but you're not like so focused on it that you can't.
The best ideas come out of like the most random moments.
When you allow those moments to happen and you say present in
those moments. Yeah, that's why everybody has

(37:46):
good ideas, like in the shower or brushing their teeth.
You know, you're not really likefocused so hard on the idea that
you're blocking your creative process.
OK, so let's go back to where wewere and that is so you started
cross you start crafting furniture from different
different places geographically those are now available for sale

(38:07):
and the and the brand, you know that and that was an evolution
of the brand. So you get to a point where you
are scaling up to the point where you are now with 90 plus
people, nearly 100 actors, whichis in itself just wild right
when you think that you started and there were around 30 or so.

(38:29):
Yeah. And and just to add to that, a
lot of our growth happened during the pandemic.
So I think every, you know, the first few months of the pandemic
were terrifying for on all levels for so many people.
But for a lot of people professionally, we were all very
nervous about what was going to happen.
And to workshops credit, becausewe were a multidisciplinary

(38:52):
studio that works on high end residential, multifamily
hospitality, you know, commercial work.
When the hospitality stuff started to slow down and the
commercial stuff started to slowdown, we were able to easily
pivot to more residential work and everybody was spending time
in their homes. So all of a sudden we had a lot
of clients calling us saying, hey, we want to build a new home

(39:14):
or change this home or. And so a lot of that growth
happened when we were all kind of in this work from home hybrid
situation. And there was this moment where
we were all coming back to the office and we realized that we
didn't have enough desks for everyone because we ground so
much, which was, you know, a good problem to have, but also a

(39:36):
problem that we had to fix, thatwe took over another floor of
the building at that time. In so now fast forwarding a
couple years into the role at itand what you're doing.
So you're successful enough in what you had done to then be
given the role as a principal. Has it become part of the

(39:57):
leadership team? Yeah.
And it wasn't. There had been stepping stones
on the way. Obviously.
You know, I started as a design director and then like I
mentioned, Matt and Andrew created an associate level where
we sort of elevated leaders within our our studio.
Other people we had divided intomultiple studios at that point.

(40:20):
We elevated people to design director.
And so I think I became an associate principal, taking on a
little bit more responsibility, tiptoeing out of just running a
studio to how can I support business development.
Means how can I support the business and work on the
business HR and operational needs.

(40:42):
And then just recently, yes, elevated to principal.
Thank you. Thank you.
Let's, I'm going to, I'm going to give it a moment because I
think that I'm sure you had thatmoment before, but it's, it's a
defining moment of a career to be able to have something as as
funny as it is that it's, it's only an adjective to describe a

(41:04):
role, right? It's, it's so validating of
years worth of commitment to thecraft to be able to have that
type of a recognition and to be able to then also promote and
foster the growth of those that are now entering the field like
you had. It's a, it's a, it's a, I would

(41:26):
say it's a pretty special thing,Andrew.
Thank you, Jonathan. I appreciate that.
I think you hit on something really important, the idea of
mentorship in our industry. And from the moment I was a new
work shopper, we call ourselves worshippers and I had the
opportunity to lead A-Team, I'vetaken that very seriously.

(41:48):
Like building a culture, what wedo is not easy.
We're not, we're not saving lives, but it's not an easy
industry. It's an industry that you have
to have passion to be in. And so I think it's really
important that you do have some fun with it, even though we all
probably take it too seriously. And I think it's really
important that people in this industry create great team

(42:13):
culture as well as opportunitiesfor mentorship.
Because when I look back, if I hadn't felt that through my
design directors at Yahoo Pushelberg or my interactions
with the principals at Yahoo Pushelberg, I might not have
stayed in this industry. I might have gone somewhere
else. And the things that I learned

(42:33):
there made me love the industry even more and put me where I am.
I mean, so I guess I will say this, and this is more of an
open dialogue to those that are listening.
If you're a student in school. And that could be whether
you're, if you were, I don't know if people listen to this in
high school. But if you're in university and

(42:54):
you're looking at an internship or you're contemplating should
you make a move to change your major or change schools or
whatever it's going to be, you've got to really contemplate
with what it is. But the reality is that the risk
that you take is generally goingto lead towards some form of
reward. And that might be something like
you realize that what you have been doing was not what you

(43:15):
should be doing, right? And where you go, you might
realize is actually terrible, but the reality is, is that you
need to experience sometimes that that thing that doesn't
work for you to find the thing that does and. 100%.
And as you continue to form yourthe basis of what you value as a

(43:36):
professional, you will land on something in some stage of your
life that gives you a lot of satisfaction.
So you can't stop taking risk. You have to continue to take
risk and take on a role that youdon't know and move or do
something that you weren't expecting to do but you know in

(43:57):
your heart you should because itwill ultimately land you in a
position where hopefully you canthen guide others to make those
same decisions at some stage. That's my rant.
Yeah, I would just add to that. Sometimes when you're in the
thick of it too, you don't realize that you're making the
right choice or doing the right thing.
Like when when you have these conversations and we're talking

(44:19):
about like my career and I'm looking back at it like it's all
very rose coloured glasses, right.
But like, I remember working so hard it certain points in my
career that in today's discussions about work life
balance probably weren't healthy.
But like in retrospect, I'm so glad I did it because I learned

(44:43):
so much and it and it helped. My husband probably isn't happy
that I did it but like. We might not have been at the
time, but maybe. Right.
Yeah, I think like, I just want to pause for a second and say
that like it, you love it even when it's hard and it's not all

(45:05):
going to be really rosy at the time.
But I think if you're passionateabout something, that's what you
should be doing for 40 plus hours a week.
Not something that felt safe, not something that you know is
just lucrative. Find the thing you're passionate
about and then it'll all fall into place.

(45:29):
And and now I'll add to what yousaid, you said it 40 hours and I
will say this that if you're going to be doing something that
you really like, you're always put in more than the standard
allotment of the work day, whichis a 40 hour work.
Week I set 40 plus. I know you did.
I know because you'll ultimatelyend up doing something that

(45:53):
could, that could have you doing60 or 70 or 80 hours worth of
work in the web. And there will be weeks where
that feels like 70 or 80 hours, But there will also be weeks
where that 70 or 80 hours does not feel like 7080 hours.
It feels more like 40 because what you're doing is so
enjoyable. And the creative, the creative
team working with is, is like everyone's just meshing and it's

(46:14):
working. So, OK, so enough of that rant.
Let's talk about, let's talk, let's talk about some like the
exciting projects that you've been able to acquire over the
time. And I think a little bit, I'm
curious to know a little bit about your role because before
we started recording, you were telling me about how some of the
things that a lot of the things that you're doing is, are, are
the sales elements to the, to the business.

(46:36):
You're going over agreements andmeeting and discovering clients
and finding their needs and writing proposals.
So like, what does that look like?
And what is the evolution of theprojects that you've you've
seen? How has that changed?
Yeah, evolution of the projects and how they've changed.
I mean, when I say, I think one really easy thing to point to at

(46:57):
Workshop is that we've really been trying to grow in the
hospitality design area. And like I said, when I started,
we hit the firm had just landed a hotel in Washington Heights in
Manhattan and it was the first hotel that they'd worked on.
Since then, we've gotten the opportunity to work on some

(47:17):
really great projects in Martha's Vineyard, Times Square,
Moxie, BAMP and BAMP Canada, working out West, working in
some resort areas. And so moving, not moving
towards hospitality, adding hospitality into the practice
has been really great. Also, I think our residential

(47:37):
projects have just continued to get better and better.
A lot of that is about people recognizing what you do or
knowing somebody who lives in a home that you've designed and,
and learning about you. I give a lot of credit to our PR
and marketing team for telling our story of who Workshop is and

(47:59):
being branding evangelicals for us and, and getting our name out
there. Because I really feel like the
opportunities in residential have just blown my mind since
being at Workshop and have grownto a level that surprises us
sometimes. And for me, I never knew that I

(48:20):
would enjoy residential design. So that's always been really,
it's been an interesting part ofmy career that actually
surprised me. I never considered myself to be
a residential architectural designer or interior designer.
And that's the majority of the work that we do.
And I have built such a passion for it.

(48:42):
The. Go ahead.
No, go ahead. You're.
Just going to touch upon, you were talking a little bit about
the business development side and I kind of started talking
about when I look back at going to school, like always sort of
focusing on this idea of being an artist and being creative,
but always knowing that I was interested in business, which I

(49:03):
really attribute to my dad. And I won't say blah, blah, blah
about it in this section, but like I've had the great
opportunity to be a part of those discussions at workshop
and to help put together proposals.
We have an amazing business development principal, Jonah
Kaplan. He's been with us.
I think he joined right after I did.

(49:24):
So I've been working with him, collaborating with him on
putting together proposals and being in the room to help sell a
vision or an idea to a client isa huge part of what we do.
Because if you don't continue tofeed the studio, you can't have
the studio. And I would just touch upon when
people are putting together proposals and having those

(49:45):
initial conversations with new clients, making sure that you're
really listening like you and I were talking about before the
podcast to that potential clientand what they need And have
empathy for what they need. And see if you can help them
solve the problems that they're having or create a narrative, A
conceptual idea that are that's going to bring sort of their

(50:07):
dream and vision to life. Get it in.
This is. As I take that in, I want to
tell you I was lucky. I grew up with a pool standard
in ground, you know, rigid corners, limited give.
But now, having worked at Walden, I'm introduced to a lot
more and I've seen a Qantas biodesign.

(50:29):
I'd tell everyone to look into it.
Instead of fighting the ground, it adapts to it.
Expansion and contraction built in up to 300 times per foot.
Imagine that form the pool around what's there.
Rocks, roots, natural features. Keep the sites character.

(50:51):
Don't fight it. Entry can be gradual, in one
spot or all around. No ladder hunt, just walk in.
It's smarter, softer on the landscape, better to live with,
and it looks incredible. e-mail me for an intro to Yuri and his

(51:11):
amazing team at a Quanta. It's Jonathan, Jonathan
waldenhomes.ca, and I'll fire off an e-mail so that you can
get to know Yuri and what he's capable of bringing to your
project. Now back to Andrew, because
it's, I think what the major difference is, I talk about

(51:33):
major differences, skills of practice.
You know, you're running an independent practice and you're,
you're, you're doing everything right.
Like you're just doing it all. And as you scale up and you get
to a practice and it could be 5 to 10 people, again, you still
have your hand in kind of everything, you get to the stage
where you at 30, right? And it's different now.

(51:53):
There's now there's people that are focused on certain like
really focused area. And as you continue to evolve
and you get to the point where you're at now, again, a lot more
happens. But you have to have so much
understanding of the operation of the business and how those
independent people are going to be fulfilling the requirements

(52:14):
that you need to hit your timelines to fulfill the
requirements that are in those proposals that the clients are
expecting. Like there, there's a there's a
lot you have to deliver on an ongoing basis, like your foot on
the gas the whole time. Yeah.
And you're constantly shifting scales.
And I don't mean in the work we do, because we we shift scales

(52:36):
in the work we do too from architecture, which you know,
I'm involved in the architectureof the interior design, the
product design. But you're shifting scales from
a business perspective, you're working on, you know, big
initiatives to keep feeding the machine.
And then all of a sudden you're in a meeting talking about how
to materials come together and what the connection point should

(52:58):
be. You're in a meeting talking
large scale about the concept ofthe, the feeling or the vibe
that you want in this restaurant.
And then you're, you know, immediately getting into the
nitty gritty of how much is thisgoing to cost for us to do as a
fixed fee and are we going to, you know, make money on this
job? But that's what I love about the

(53:21):
job. Like I think that like being
able to pivot throughout the dayand touch many different levels,
many different scales, many different aspects of of a
practice is what fuels me. And so based on where you're at
now, where do you think that or where do you or have you planned

(53:45):
for the practice to continue to,to grow?
Is there, is there a specific, is it Rez is in hospitality?
Is it commercial? Where which?
Which of those streams are you looking to want to grow even
more? Where is the one that you
haven't yet done? That's interesting.
We haven't done a jet yet. I mean, I think the answer is

(54:09):
all of that, right? Because we as designers get
energy from trying something new.
So I think we want to definitelycontinue to push in hospitality.
I think we want to push to get the hospitality jobs that we're
doing to maybe be at the same level of experience as some of

(54:32):
our residential jobs. People still put you in boxes,
Even creative people, people putin boxes.
And I feel like we are constantly, and I say we because
you're interviewing me, but Workshop is a collection of
amazing people. I'm just a small piece of it.
I think we never want to be put too much in a box.

(54:53):
We want to keep trying new things.
So for me, I'm very focused on continuing to grow the
hospitality side, but I would never want to turn my back on
any of the residential work we do or the multifamily work or
the commercial work we do. I'm very interested.
I've never workshop has never really done that much retail,

(55:15):
but that was where I started my career.
Retail sort of a dying art rightnow.
So if we had the opportunity to work on really interesting
retail, that would really fire my imagination and would fit
within our plans for the company.
Another thing we're seeing is some of our clients start to
pull us into their workspaces, which is really amazing.

(55:37):
Residential. Yeah.
So residential clients who are like, hey, I love what you did
with my home. Could you do that in my office
for my whole team? And that is super exciting as
someone who's so passionate about touch points, interior
touch points, exterior touch points.
But the way we experience space,I find is usually through the

(55:59):
interior of a of a space. And so I'm super drawn to the
idea of growing commercial opportunities like that for the
firm. But we're not looking to leave
out any of our verticals. We're very fascinated with
creating a multidisciplinary firm.
And one of our more recent kind of additions to our offering is

(56:23):
branding. And that came out of the natural
progression of, OK, we're designing the architecture of
this hotel, the interior design of this hotel, the furniture of
this hotel. Why don't we also do the
branding of this hotel? And then of course, we created
our own brand workshop collection, which there was a

(56:45):
whole process of creating that brand.
So we've had the opportunity to start doing branding for some of
our clients. And not just commercial clients
either. We've branded some of the
private residential homes that we've done.
People wanted to have a name forthe home, a logo for the home,
something that they might embroider on towels or have

(57:05):
water bottles made to really kind of complete that sense of
place by naming it and giving itan identity after you've created
it. So I would say that if there's a
creative field that is adjacent to how people live or work or
enjoy spaces, we would be interested in being a part of

(57:26):
that. What what about I mean, just
just the random quote? What about like public realm,
public sector? Would you any any anything?
There. Yeah.
I mean, isn't it like an architect and an interior
designer's dream to do, like, a museum, right?
Yeah. I think a library, something
like that. Yeah.

(57:46):
I can't say that those projects are knocking on our door right
now because we have never workedin those areas again.
It's back to the boxes. People put you in a box.
Feel like with your with your design studio, with the sorry
with the collection studio or element of the studio.
Yeah, an installation in a park is not something that's like out

(58:09):
of the question. Yeah.
I mean, Jonathan, hopefully someone hears this podcast and
thinks about us for that, because what I will say is the
way that I like to approach design it and, and a lot of
designers, our teams also approach design this way is by
creating a conceptual lens, by creating a narrative, even

(58:29):
residential, starting to think about a bigger idea, a story
that we're telling about what we're designing and that can be
applied to all types of design situations.
So as much as like maybe people want to put you in a box to make
you more understandable, if you really understand the creative

(58:52):
process, you can apply that to so many different areas.
And when you look at things thatare being built in the world,
sometimes the best projects are novel projects for that
designer, something they've never done before.
And so they approach it in a different way.
It's funny. So this this topic of being
like, you know, kind of boxed into a certain a certain typology

(59:16):
or design aesthetic. I just was having this
conversation earlier in the weekwith someone about it and how,
you know, terrible example, but you can appreciate it.
Like Jason Statham, OK, he did his first movie and it's like,
you know, to hit him up movie and every role he's ever had
since, it's the exact same guy. Yeah.

(59:38):
Every movie He's he can he ever get into something that's going
to be a, you know, a suspense drama?
Like probably not the hardest part is how to sell someone to
take the risk on something that goes beyond what you've done.
But when you show the foundationof where you were and what

(59:59):
you've done, I think when we talk about the idea of, you
know, looking at doing a museum,well, you know, we, we did
residential and we've done hospitality, we've done
commercial and now we've got, we've got our own collection.
So the evolution of the practicespeaks to the evolution of
what's possible. It's, it's funny that people
from the outside do like, like look at your work and they're

(01:00:22):
like, oh, you're a residential architect, interior designer,
product designer, whatever you are.
Like I like to break out of like, I don't want to just do
architecture. I don't want to just do
interiors. I don't want to just do product.
I don't want to just do branding.
It's like moving between these scales, between these
disciplines is what I think makes a really holistic project

(01:00:42):
and invigorates me as a designer.
But I don't want to ever just doresidential either.
I want to work on hotels. I want to work on multifamily
living and amenities. And there's a conflation of
ideas between those that energizes the other.
How many times have the client come to me?
I had this great opportunity at a a experience at a resort.

(01:01:04):
Can we bring that into my own home?
Or how many times have I designed this very intimate,
beautiful space for somebody? And then I am talking to a hotel
company and they're like, we want to create more intimate,
beautiful spaces where people feel like they're at home rather
than at a hotel. And I guess to answer your

(01:01:27):
question, how do you sell peopleon that?
Maybe it's about talking more about the process of design, but
I guess anybody out there who's listening to this, who's the
decision maker, Like don't pigeonhole yourself to firms who
have done the exact same work before because you probably will
end up getting similar work. Like, I think it's OK to find

(01:01:50):
creatives who work in a process or a collaborative way that you
feel comfortable with and give them new challenges because
you're going to get something really interesting out of it.
I concur. I do so.
I hope a bunch of museums give us a call this week.
So if you've now listened to this, the number to call so

(01:02:13):
Andrew out outside of work, whatdo you like to do to be able to
take your mind off of it? Is that travel?
Is it food? Is it a hobby of knitting?
Is it is it walking backwards? Like what do you what do you
what do you like to do? That's that's fun and
interesting. I love to travel for fun.

(01:02:34):
I, I don't think I do it enough,but I, I think that travel
energizes designers. I was recently in Japan for my
birthday with my best friend andmy husband and the experience
has definitely energized me. It's the consideration and care
of the spaces that we were in really made me think a lot and I

(01:02:56):
see it coming out in the concepts I'm working on right
now. On the weekends, we like to
spend our time upstate as much as we can and get out of the
city and go on hikes. I like to garden.
I told you during the pandemic Istarted doing some ceramics.
So that's something I'm trying to get back in to.

(01:03:16):
I have to admit I'm not, I'm notgood at it.
And so that is, in its own way, kind of fun because I have to be
OK with imperfections, which is good for a but very healthy for
me. And I've been thinking about

(01:03:39):
getting back into painting to kind of go full circle back to
where I was in high school and undergrad when I thought I would
be a painter. I think that's my next creative
outlet outside of the studio of the workshop.
What? What?
Like what kind of painting? Acrylic watercolor spray.

(01:04:00):
Paint, I would love to do oil that's what I did previously,
but you know, you kind of have to have some dedicated space to
that so I'll probably start withacrylics.
They've gotten a lot better recently and, and we'll see, but
I don't know that's that's in its infancy.
Check in with me in six months and see if I actually started.

(01:04:22):
I just haven't done it in so long that I've started to like
kind of collect some materials. I have a nice easel.
I just need to like jump in and do it.
I haven't made the time for it, but I'm hoping this summer to
make the time to get back into painting.
Plans for the weekend. Gardening this weekend.

(01:04:44):
I have a lot of weeds in my landscaping.
OK. And what about like when you're,
when you're in the city, do you,do you, are you close to work?
Do you walk to work? Do you take the train?
Do you drive like what? What's, what's your experience
like in in that day? Yeah, so I live in Jersey City,
downtown Jersey City, across from Van Vorst Park, which is

(01:05:09):
like a really cute old neighborhood.
And I take the PATH train into Midtown Manhattan and go to
work. We have two dogs.
So I spend a lot of time in the park with my dogs and a lot of
time in the office. Alright, last few questions.
I want to ask you now in the past, who are some of the more,

(01:05:29):
I would say potentially influential creatives that you
came across that you felt have really that really kind of
helped lay a foundation or that you draw upon for inspiration is
whether they're well known or potentially some that aren't and
who are those? You know, someone that I always

(01:05:50):
am kind of enamored by is Jaime Hayon.
He is a artist first and foremost, which, you know, now
saying it out loud, I'm like, well, that's why I'm drawn to
him. Who then moved into product and
furniture design and then interior design.
You might know him from the Jadro stores that he designed

(01:06:12):
and the Yadra sculptures that hedesigned.
Spanish designer, architect and what?
Or I don't know if you would consider himself an architect,
probably more artist, designer. Why I've always been so
interested in his work is that it really breaks through these
boundaries of what's art and what's design.

(01:06:35):
We talked a lot today about boxes.
I don't really like to put things in boxes.
I like the blurry lines. I think creativity happens at
the intersection of scales. The intersection of architecture
and interior design, or the intersection of interior design
and and furniture, the intersection of art and design.

(01:06:55):
So I would say that High Mayhan is definitely an inspiration.
Recently I was in Osaka at the World Expo and I actually didn't
spend very much time there at all.
I was really there just because I wanted to see this enormous
timber ring that so Fujimoto designed.

(01:07:18):
It's like a five story tall ring, 2 kilometers long that
goes outside of the world's Expo.
And I've always been enamored byso Fujimoto's work, and this was
the first time I'd experienced any of it in person.
And what was so magical to me about this thing that he created

(01:07:40):
was for his team. Obviously it's a team sport is
like walking around a World Expois like the only way you would
want to be in a World Expo because otherwise you're
standing in lines waiting to go into a pavilion.
And by the brilliance of creating a 2 kilometer ring
around the outside of it is and create it's a park with like

(01:08:03):
beautiful, like rooftop gardens and stuff is that you get to see
the buildings as if they're objects because they're, you're
far enough away from them that you can experience them.
And then it's this collection ofvery interesting buildings that
all of these countries are proudof and have put money behind
that are so different from each other.

(01:08:24):
And so I took an hour and walkedaround that with my best friend
and we were just like blown away.
And then we were like, OK, we'regood.
We don't want to go inside any of these buildings or stand in
lines and we left. I'm looking at it now in just
these scale of this timber. Yeah, it's ridiculous.
I think when it was originally designed, he had that every day,

(01:08:46):
had the idea that it would be taken apart in the timber,
reused. I have a feeling, and I sort of
read some stuff online that like, people like it so much
it'll probably stick around. It's unbelievable this band some
some of the post 22 meters high.Yeah.
Wild. It is really cool, everyone

(01:09:08):
should check it out. Andrew, I, I really, truly
greatly appreciate your time. Thank you for like, thank you
for sharing all of this with me.Thank you for telling the story,
your eloquence and, and, and you, you mentioned it many times
and the passion you have for what you do, I think definitely
shine through and in your, in your dialogue.
So thank, thanks for giving us an insight both into your

(01:09:31):
career, but also into the amazing work that workshops have
been putting out over the years.And if you're listening to this
now and you're unfamiliar, I would highly recommend you check
out the our Instagram page. It's behind the build.
There's a blue logo with some white writing and you'll be able
to see some of the amazing work that it Workshop APD does.

(01:09:52):
They're going to be selecting obviously what we feature on our
Instagram page. Given the fact that this is a
median that does not have visuals currently, we we are
not, we are not doing this with video.
So Jonathan, the pleasure is allmine and I just want to commend
you. And thank you for taking the
time to create a podcast like this.

(01:10:13):
I remember early on in my career, I would always like
corner people that I worked withand be like, how did you get
interested in this? How did you do it?
What like is it possible? And like creating a platform
where people can talk about how they they've achieved what
they've achieved or sort of stumbled upon what they've
achieved is really powerful. And thank you.

(01:10:37):
We're doing that. And thank you so much for having
me on. I'm going to tell you as you say
that I'm going to tell you why. Just because I don't know that
I've done this. I studied broadcast or print
journalism in school and I had aProf where all of the stories
that I ever wanted to do were always human interest stories.
I just, I cared more about that.And I was always taught that if

(01:10:58):
it bleeds, it leads. And it really, really upset me
because I think. That.
People are interested in learning about people.
Yeah, well, we also want to readabout something.
Bloody or whatever it's. Going on, you know, we want to
learn about people and I just didn't agree with her at one
point. Actually, I, I, I, my different

(01:11:20):
profit pulled the story that wasabout a person because they want
to make it about other stuff. There is such a redeeming
quality to having someone be able to tell their own legacy
and what they're creating that it doesn't make sense to me to
be able to go and find the critical elements of where they
are not doing what they should be doing in in design and

(01:11:42):
architecture. There is so much of that.
There is so many people constantly critiquing other
people's work rather than tryingto in some way celebrate whether
there's one thing in it that youmight like.
Like find, find the the celebration in it because, yeah,
there's been so much effort that's gone into it.

(01:12:04):
That's a really great thing to keep in mind as designers.
We're all used to being critiqued and we all do kind of
critique each other and it's noteasy what we do.
It's not easy being a creative. And so I appreciate that you
celebrate creatives. Thank you so much for that
pleasure. Thanks, Andrew.
Thanks for thanks for doing thisof.

(01:12:25):
Course.