Behind the Build: Gene Sandoval - ZGF Architects

Gene Sandoval’s story is one of vision, resilience, and impact. Born in the Philippines, Gene grew up immersed in the world of craft and creation, watching shipbuilders shape vessels from simple materials in his family’s shipyard. By the time he was a teenager, his artistic instincts and fascination with form had already drawn him to architecture. At just 18, Gene left behind the comforts of home, arriving in the US to study at the University of Oregon. There, he transitioned from mastering the visual language of design to learning how to think critically, communicate ideas, and push boundaries.

In 1989, Gene joined ZGF (Zimmer Gunsul Frasca) in Portland at a time when jobs were scarce and AutoCAD was just being introduced. He started by doing everything from assembling drawing boards to working 100 plus hour weeks on competitions, absorbing the firm’s culture and contributing to its rise. Within a decade, he’d become a principal. By 37, Gene was named partner, one of the first people of color and immigrants to hold that title at the firm, breaking new ground not just in architecture, but in representation.

Gene’s projects span from early additions to the Portland International Airport to designing world class facilities for Nike. But his most powerful work is also deeply personal. In a beautifully full circle moment, Gene helped lead the design of the new PDX terminal, a space that reimagines the immigrant’s first step into America. Built with regional mass timber, the terminal is not only a feat of engineering and sustainability, it is a symbol of ingenuity, equity, and community resilience. His ten year journey on the project included bringing together rural suppliers, an emerging fabrication company (Timberlab), and a cross disciplinary team that delivered one of the most iconic airport spaces in North America.

This episode traces Gene’s remarkable career, from drawing on notebook pages as a boy in Manila to shaping some of the Pacific Northwest’s most ambitious projects. It is a celebration of craft, collaboration, and the immigrant spirit that continues to shape architecture in North America.

Curated Podcast Sponsors:

Caplan's Appliances: https://caplans.ca/

The Doors: https://thedoors4u.com/

Sound Solutions: https://www.soundsolutions.ca/

Berman Stairs: https://bermanstairs.com/

To connect with our sponsors, email me: [e-mail]

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Episode Transcript

(00:08):
Welcome to Behind the Build. I am your host, Jonathan Jacobs.
And today on the program I have what is starting off with one of
the partners of Zed GF or if you're American, ZGF.
When Gene talked about shaping the PDX terminal, he spoke about

(00:29):
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(00:49):
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Large open volumes ran forward interiors, complex ceiling
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(01:11):
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(01:34):
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If you want to learn more about them and their products, e-mail
me [e-mail].

(01:58):
I have Gene Sandoval with me today and later in the episode I
will have Sharon Vandermeulen joining as well.
That's right. And so Gene, Gene and I spoke a
little while back. Gene, thank you for joining.
Thank you for participating in this.
I've been looking forward to this for a very long time.
Well, thank you. Hello, everybody.
I'm Gene Sandoval with CF Architects and I'm excited to

(02:21):
talk to you and chat and, you know, talk about anything and
everything. Yeah.
Well, so as before we get into your history, who you are, what
led you to where you are, you want to just establish a few of
the important elements about thepractice.
OK, so in some basic research over the course of decades upon

(02:46):
decades, ZGF has won over 850 design awards.
Really. Who's counting?
Actually, AI. AI is counting.
Thankfully, Thankfully, AI. Joining.
I didn't have to count that. And the portfolio ranges from
healthcare and research facilities and academic
buildings, mixed-use developments, corporate
campuses, museums, transportation facilities, eco

(03:09):
districts, and they have officesall across the US and in Canada,
there are over 800 employees. So with all of that said, I am
talking today with two. I'll start it off with 1 gene.
Gene, Can you tell everyone a little bit about the gene?

(03:31):
I know you started with the practice in 1989, but I want to
talk about your history prior tothat.
What led you to joining the practice?
But more importantly actually, what led you into architecture?
I guess I'm one of those people that from a you really young age
was allured by the notion of building.
And it fits the title of this show, right.

(03:54):
I, I think it started off with growing up where I come from,
the Philippines, being in the islands, there were a lot of
boat building. The curiosity of how people
built the boats out of really more simple materials available
to them. Then when I got older, my father
fought, my family had a shipbuilding and corporation and

(04:17):
my, and my dad was managing one,one or two of the shipyards.
So a lot of summers, a lot of times I would spend time with my
dad being in the shipyard, seeing how people do their
thing. And that led me to this
curiosity of creation of, of craft.
And eventually that kind of likewith my, I had this natural

(04:39):
ability with artistry. And from drawing, I could, I've
always been able to draw for some reason.
And I've always been able to imagine things, you know, like I
spent a lot of time, a lot of mylife in my grade school drawing
on my notebooks rather than taking notes.

(05:00):
I was just saying. So I had this kind of imaginary
mind. Yeah.
And I, I said this a lot of times when then I I saw Star
Wars. Star Wars blew my mind because I
didn't know that you can recreate this whole imaginary
world that is like far beyond what you see.

(05:22):
So that kind of really led this idea of like, what is this
practice? What is this vocation that I
could do it. And and that ended up being
architecture, you know? I want to tell you something
actually I just found out about Star Wars.
If you can envision, there's thescene, and I just say this
because of the artistry of what that movie and what how it

(05:44):
changed everything in production.
But there, you know, the scene when Luke and Leia are standing
inside of the deaths inside of the Death Star and they're not
inside the Death Star inside oneof the ships.
And there's the retracting. Or the bridge, yes.
Yeah, yeah. And the and the storm troopers
are shooting at them. You know that that entire

(06:04):
background is actually glass andit was done by an artist and
they painted it. Yes, to get the depth.
I knew that depth. Yeah, Oh my God.
And they have to read like, thatwas an amazing film.
But now that, you know, later on, they start to expose that
they had to do, they had to invent everything.
And it was a really disruptive movie for the adult industry,

(06:27):
Right. So yeah, back right, the blast,
yeah, when you do this explosion, they had to try out a
blast that would make it so miniaturize it so the particles
look real in in the right scale.The model ships that we're using
now. Fascinating, Fascinating So.
OK, so that movie kind of sets you on a path of like mental

(06:48):
exploration as to what's possible.
Yeah, it's like realizing like, shit, you know, they cannot.
They can reimagine the world so different than ours and that
then they like architecture to me.
And so very young age, I really knew what I wanted to do.
So between 8 and 10 years old. And here where I am, you know.

(07:11):
Well, hold on. That was a big, that was a big
skip. So when you were in when you
were in high school, were you studying all of the arts,
knowing that this was something that you wanted to pursue?
Or was it A at that point, were you still trying to figure out
how you're going to apply that newfound inspiration?
I took a lot of I found myself loving geometry.

(07:34):
OK. And again, it came natural and I
took a lot of drawing and drafting and classes.
That also was, I know I love history.
I've been so everything kind of tied together when I was in
junior high school, like, yeah, I think architecture is a where
my natural ability is. It was daunting because

(07:57):
architecture in the Philippines was it was a profession that was
looked upon. But because of the economy and
the state of development of our country was it was kind of a
dead end kind of career there atthat moment, right.
And and so, but the next thing that would kind of brought me to
the States was my, my, we have this his history in my family of

(08:17):
people turning off when you turn18, these sort of like kind of
find your path. And like my parents and my
uncles and aunt all of the country to study abroad.
And fortunately, my big chunk ofmy other half of my family went
to the States and my dad went toOregon, University of Oregon.
And that's so when I turned, when I went to, had two years of

(08:39):
architecture school in in the Philippines with the notion that
when I turned 18, because I was in school, I was in college at
16. For some reason, I know, I guess
I started young and then they did this IQ test and apparently
could start. I started, I think I was a grade
one at six years old. And then I skip a grade when I

(09:01):
was in grade 6. I went directly to high school
and not because I was smart. It just kind of happens.
I like, I like the modesty here.I can tell you didn't want.
To I'm not I'm like not the smartest guy in the room tell
you that. It's just never tell anybody
them the smartest guy in the room.
So I just had like one of those things that something that I

(09:23):
thought I was good at it can naturally and just honed it to
some degree. And comprehension.
I'll clearly comprehension was something that came somewhat
naturally to you. I've always been good to
comprehend and fill the room. Like that's one of my interests
too. Like when I was in college, I
took a lot of art history, architecture, history, art,
anthropology, marketing, becauseall kind of tight together

(09:47):
studies that kind of foretell ordescribe the state of a culture,
right. Anyway, So that's kind of like,
and you know, my family was at that time was also involved in
politics. I grew up in a political family
in my mind, and so politics and people and policies are all kind
of in my blood. You say before that there was a

(10:09):
kind of a natural progression inyour family that you go and
explore and figure yourself, figure yourself out at 18.
Were they upset or was it a partof the path that you would leave
the Philippines? Well, it was contentious.
Well, I had a lot of friends that I grew up with.
I had a four partying like rock stars, you know it.
It was stuff from Wednesday night all the way to Sun

(10:31):
Saturday was party night. It's just a different world.
And it was hard to leave that, but here we are.
And then like leaving, it's hardto leave that.
The comforts of home. But this is the best thing I've
ever did was leave the comfort of home.
Come to America. You had applied, right?
You had applied to university at18.
You got into Oregon. Oregon.

(10:52):
Yeah. And then, great.
At that time, I didn't know it was one of the best architecture
school in the country. I think it was #7 or #5 wow.
And then come to Oregon. Oh my gosh, it's rainy.
I was telling my dad like, Oh mygosh, I think you're sending me
to prison with a rainy a personal brain because it's just

(11:13):
so rainy. But I think I thought it was
good because it made me focus onschool, right?
So there you go. So you.
So you arrived and you had no one here like you knew no one
you. Or did you?
But when I arrived here, my sister was already going to
University of Oregon. Oh, she was OK.
She older sister and we have some family in town, like maybe

(11:35):
an hour and a half or two because you know, I have 51st
cousins and half of them, you know, migrate to the states are
some of my uncles and aunts stayed in the States and raised
their family. So we're everywhere, so to
speak. OK.
And what did it look like? You know, so you you get into
school, did you feel like there was duplicity between the degree

(11:57):
that you had received while you were back home and what you were
learning now, or were they a lotof net new information that you
were you were gaining? It's, it's really, it's a good
question, you know, because my education in the Philippines has
more Bozart base. So we did a lot of watercolor
hand drawing, really honing thatskill visualization.

(12:18):
Yeah. And what's amazing about the
education in America is in America you're taught to think,
especially in University of Oregon.
It's a liberal arts education, very holistic.
So that I thought that it was like my skill of I was like
first two years of school taughtme how to visually represent my

(12:39):
ideas or my thoughts. Coming to state to the states in
the University of Oregon, it taught me how to like, speak and
explain my thoughts. Articulate them, yeah.
Yeah, particularly, but also reason.
Yeah, you know, and and that's something I never knew that we
were never educated to reason because it's it's just not part
of the culture. It's, you know, follow the

(13:00):
orders of your parents and you and follow the orders of the
government. That was just the way it is.
That's what American education is amazing.
It's it really hones rebels and thinkers and thought leadership.
And I find myself like really fitting in there because I'm,
I'm a rebel and black ship rebel.
Call it disruptor, call it what you might call.

(13:24):
And tell me so were there because I'm I'm curious about
this, like this element of the dynamic between having gained
that that three-year education back home, coming here to what
you're describing now. Were there specific courses that
you felt like when you walked inand they started talking about
some of those early concepts that really like just shook you
to your fiber that you were like, I cannot believe I'm

(13:46):
engaging in this now? What's amazing with two years of
education in the Philippines, University of Santo Tomas, what
blew me away is like, Oh my gosh, they have this crazy
library of resource that I can like find just stuff about
architecture. And then the, the, the
university, like there is such aresource for worldview of

(14:09):
architecture. There's so many like different
thoughts of you about architecture in that school in
the moment. And there was like such a strong
international community within the student body in itself, but
also within architecture. Like half of my half of my
friends were from other countries, you know?
How many students were in the program when you got accepted?

(14:31):
Like how many they let in at that time in a year?
If I guess right, I think there were 120.
Students, it's a small program even though well established
program which I defined about. Yeah, that's 120 I think, and
that's including in because the first year, first year you're
you're there with interior architects and landscape

(14:52):
architects and architects in oneschools.
I wouldn't be surprised if the architecture program is as
undergraduates, about 70 to 80 students.
Yes, it was it was a really tight and cozy.
But then the second thing I another thing I realize is this
notion of freedom. I have never had the experience
of being able to think freely kind of and expand that kind of

(15:16):
freedom. So yeah, it was a fantastic
education. It was a not an education about
a certain style of architecture.It was actually an education
about how to think. The glass in a project like PDX
or Nike isn't decorative. It's structural, symbolic and
precise. Curtain walls that stretch

(15:37):
entire facades. Doors that blur the line between
interior and landscape. Oversize units that welcome
light while managing energy, durability and movement.
That's the kind of challenge theDoors was made for, and we've
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(16:00):
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Curtain walls that perform at commercial scale, built with
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(16:21):
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See how the Doors supports architectural projects with
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[e-mail] I'll set up an introduction

(16:45):
to Martin, the owner. Did you find yourself connecting
with some of like, you know, obviously a couple friends that
you would work with and then I guess since you graduate, you
still maintain relationships with and you get to shoot ideas
back and forth or what? What does that look like over
the? Years.
Well, it's interesting to say that my I go everywhere in the

(17:07):
world and everywhere I go, I have a friend that I went to
school with or connected becausethey're everywhere, right?
And and you know, the friendshipthat you form during your
formative years lasts a long time.
We haven't worked together for better, for worse, but we always
have this tech chains all around24/7 of like, you know, like in

(17:32):
all architecture. Check this out.
And we if I go to a different countries, I always have friends
that I can meet with and we would just geek out an
architecture in our lives. So that's fantastic if we never
had that in the Philippines. And I think that's truly one of
the magic of America. America is a place where a lot

(17:52):
of different cultures and citizens come to get
matriculated and some stay, somego home and and take their
knowledge and raise the different, I mean a great group
of new intellectuals within their.
Boundaries. Yeah, I think, I guess one of
the one of the things that I in some ways I notice you're you're

(18:13):
so you're right now you're stillliving in Portland, right?
I live in Portland but I work all around the country.
This is just one of my places ofresidence, so to speak.
Well, that you that you arrive there and this is now where you
live. And I find a lot of people that
are from the US don't actually stay in the same city that that
they're initially born in or from.

(18:35):
So it's like you, you put your roots down in this city.
Actually went to school in Eugene and Eugene, OR is a small
college town. You know, it is OK.
Yeah. And I think at that moment they
were less than 100,000 people living there.
And from the place I come from, Manila, there were like 5
million to 10 million people at the moment.
I don't know where the statistics was, but it's it was

(18:57):
just a big cultural change, you know, but it helped me focus and
helped me kind of grow my own, you know, being away from my
family and my friends that I kind of grew up with.
And that kept me insular. And so I had to make my own,
paid my own way. And then after college, they end
up being in Portland, which is and two hours away.

(19:18):
Yep, joined CJF or it was a Zimmer Gunsul Frasca.
It was about at that moment a 30year old company that was
winning design awards. It was always in the cover of
architecture magazines and joined the firm 89.
The firm won the firm of the year in America in 1992.
So and it was at that moment already in a national firm.

(19:41):
So I thought it was like a good match benchmark.
Then I never thought that I would stay this long because I
wanted to go to New York and LA.But at that moment, there was a
deep recession and you cannot even get a phone call back or
let alone speak to anybody and there was no Internet, right?
They always filled with by the reception desk, right?

(20:04):
And you have to write a letter and you have to mail it in the
post. Or or fax it if you were looking
at the fax. Exactly.
So no, that was before I was before.
Fast this before I was as I saidthat I was like wait a second,
91 might have been before fact, 92 might have been before facts.
89 I was an 89. Sorry, sorry.

(20:25):
I actually want to ask you so the question I wanted to ask you
about, you know, you started in 89 there.
What was the interview process like?
So funny enough, like I interviewed like nobody was
hiring. I cannot get past the reception
area of any firm in town. I did my 6 firm that I want to
work with in Portland, OR, five that I thought had a taste or a

(20:49):
connection beyond Oregon. So obviously I was being
pragmatic. I said I need to make, I need to
get employment, I need to work and whatever job I have right
now is temporary, but it's something I hope it's a firm
that I can use as a reference when I move on to go to LA or
New York City or whatever big city there there is so, so CGF

(21:12):
was that when there is, I think tomorrow, SRG&YJH.
And so I was running out of money.
My sister, well, I was living with said they basically get you
need to get your rear end going.Borrow the car.
I didn't have, I didn't have a portfolio because I didn't have
time to do it. I packed my, all my models, all

(21:33):
my drawing boards and I knocked on doors and I just said, Hey,
I, I'm in town for a short moment here for today.
Is there a way that I can, you know, meet with anybody?
I am looking for a job. Went around and they love my
resume. And then next thing I know it

(21:54):
was like all of them pulled someof their senior people and I got
interviews in two out of the topthree got offered on both and,
and then CGF was the one to say like, you know, come back next
week. So I took CGF and the rest is
history. Wow.
And it's and were there, were there, were there levels of

(22:15):
interviews or was it just like one, one interview that you had
and that was it? OHK with CGF, it was just one
interview and I got the job, youknow, it's a it was a different
time before yeah, you know, so. And at that time, how many do
you know how many offices they had?
At that time, we had two offices, like 3 offices in

(22:36):
Seattle and LA and I believe we're 120 people, OK.
And I think I was employee number 68 or 71 at that moment.
And now we've been at the, at the biggest, we've been 800
something. Yeah.
So yeah, I've seen the company grow.
I mean, you, you've probably been a part of that growth right
in, in the pitches and, and, andwinning and winning projects.

(23:00):
I hope so, but I don't know it kind of just.
So, so tell me like what were some of the first projects that
you had the opportunity to work on when you were when you were
fresh into the company? What are they look like for you?
I was the kind of guy that I waswilling to do anything and
everything. So my first job by first week in

(23:21):
the job was actually setting up drawing boards for the office
and driving the car to the DMV, the partners cars.
And then then I did model shop. I work in the model shop for
awhile and I was an intern helping with like we had a
competition. So I was, I was basically the,
the low, the so the the youngin.Yeah, remember I did 120 hours,

(23:46):
I think my first, my first paycheck, I did 70 or 80 R weeks
for like 3 or 4 months. The first couple of months I was
there because you had a competition and you know, I was
a very hungry and driven person.So then then in terms of
projects, it was an interesting time.

(24:08):
You know, before, before you go to the projects, I just want to
say this to anyone that is listening to this.
If you are a student in school, OK, If you are a junior
architect and intern architect and you are complaining of hours
or you're thinking that you're overworked, OK, because you put
in 50 hours in a week. I just would like to remind you

(24:29):
what Jean just said. And that was 70 to 80 hours a
week for months, but there were weeks where there were 120
hours. 120 hours, 20 hours wouldbe let me no, I think the most I
did was 110. Than 10 hours in a week.
I think. So.
So again, for reference, that's almost three weeks worth of work

(24:50):
in one week. We had a deadline you wouldn't
do. Well, I'm not saying that I'm
look, I'm just saying it becausethere is a different mentality
in some of the up and coming people into the industry, right.
Well, it's a different. Time, but it's a different time
and different takes for different people.
Right. Totally, totally.

(25:11):
In my mind that I believe in thenotion of the art of mark
masters mastery, that's going totake you 10,000 hours, 10,000
times, whatever it is, you have to be a master Everything.
Yeah. And I still at that moment, I
really, you know, believe in learning and I believe in
mentorship. I didn't mind like doing all

(25:34):
those things. And redlining was the time, you
guys, when you go to the sheet of paper and you would erase
something and you would draw over it and you were to
draftsman and you have to learn how there's a certain way to
write. There's a standard of using your
pen. Everything had a standard.
So I didn't mind it because it gave me discipline.

(25:55):
It it gave me a deeper understanding of just the level
of complexity these projects andand the and the process of
grading stuff. There's also like fast
forwarding your learning processto gain those 10,000 hours.
Almost an almost in half. Not quite, but almost in half,
right. Looking for almost five years

(26:16):
and condensing 10,000 hours intolike 2 1/2, two and three
quarter years, so. True, that's I never thought of
it that way, but but they were, it was a joke.
I mean, there were moments I would sleep under my desk.
I'm, I'm like, again, I'm sayingthis because you know, you reach
a certain is reach a certain stature of career and to get to

(26:37):
that, there is a lot of time putinto it.
And there are times and you, youhave, you have to appreciate
that you got to look back on it and appreciate it because it led
you to where you are. And yes, different strokes,
different folks, but the work ethic, it's putting your head
down. You can complain to yourself
about some, some things here andthere about time or vacation or
all the rest of it. But if your vision is set on

(26:59):
wanting to achieve something, you put your head down and you
put the work in well. I left my home.
I left my family, left my friends.
I gotta put meaning in it. And I had to make it because I
had to give. Like, why did I sacrifice that
for? And so I think that's part of
it. It's also, I love what I did.
And it was never about a job. It was really about my passion

(27:20):
for the craft, right? So work was my community, work
was my life, work was my craft, and architecture became my my
love, you know? So it's all fun, man.
OK, so so we, we, I interrupted you to have that little tangent

(27:42):
as you were about to get into talking with the projects.
Yeah. So let's talk about some of
those. And what did that?
Look like the the first member of a project, believe it or not
is actually the airport, the Portland airport.
So about 3334 years ago I workedon one of the additions in the
airport. I was the draftsman and it was
the first project that the office was thinking of doing it

(28:04):
all digital. So that tells you that I was the
first generation of computer, I would say adapters.
So we actually had to learn how to use AutoCAD on the project.
And so this is mid 90s. No, this is like 9393.
Yeah. Yeah.
So actually you worked during the day and then we would take

(28:27):
classes in the evening. The firm paid for a class in the
evening how to learn how to use AutoCAD, and they would apply in
a project. And then we have a few stations
of AutoCAD in the office and then people would do for that
project. We would do it double days, two
sets of people, like people who work in the morning and then
some people in the evening because we didn't have enough

(28:49):
computers yet, they were hard toget by.
Right. And just as again for reference
for those that are young here, these are not computers that are
you to assume are like a MacBookAir, OK, this is this is not the
case. These are.
Your refrigerator or refrigerator.
So I'm going at that time, the memory was so weak that we were

(29:10):
doing this trust system. So to that point, the memory was
so slow that you cannot regenerate your, it cannot save
your work. If you save your work, it would
take 3 hours before you can workon it again, right?
It was kind of scary. So like there was a joke.
Don't don't ever hit the regeneration regeneration button

(29:32):
because it's going to take forever.
And were you not worried about like somehow you had like a
power outage or that like when you eventually went to save, you
would have lost the work? Like again, reality is what you
are faced with. Right.
Yes, yeah. The reality you don't have to
worry how much you don't have a choice, but you know all is

(29:53):
good. So this is where we're
eventually going to go with thisis just those listening, we're
gonna get to talking about the most recent Portland airport
addition project. So for for me, I, when you and I
first spoke, I didn't realize that one of the first projects
you were on was the Portland airport and that your career has

(30:14):
been so beautifully circular to come back to that and.
That's such a meaningful place for me because beyond that, it
was the first, it was my port ofentry to the United.
States yeah, yeah, this. So yeah, this.
It was also the first place thatI entered to after leaving my
country. I've never left the Philippines

(30:35):
until going to America, so I wasfresh off the boat, man.
Have you ever wrestled with a window sizing disaster on cider?
Had a staff member quit kind of mid Sprint face ground
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(30:57):
low, even though that's what you've done your whole career.
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(31:18):
Think of it like a digital campfire, minus the smoke and
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(31:42):
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(32:03):
against. Register now by shooting me an
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Let's stop pretending professionis the norm.
Inside the challenge is where real practice gets real first
time. When I first spoke to you about
this, you know, we, we had that initial conversation and I was
like emotional when you were telling me this because of how

(32:25):
impactful that could be as a, asa person to leave your family
behind. And your first experience of a
new country is walking off that plane?
And walking off that plane and having like so many years later,
having the opportunity to recreate that front door, the
global front door to to the you're adopted second home

(32:47):
right. It's it's incredibly like it's a
privilege. It's on and God, like when you
like, he can't fuck it up, man. I mean, that's kind of scary.
But again, it's when when peopleare talking about this, there's
a lot of people that moved to this country to make this
country better in America. And we are just here to be a

(33:09):
part of a culture to make it better and be thankful for what
opportunity this country has given.
I mean, only in the United States that an adopted son, so
to speak, could recreate one of their cities or states front
door. I mean, that's fascinating.
Fascinating. Well, so, OK, so you're going to

(33:30):
bring alright, I'm summary of myown words because I agree with
you and I'm, I absorb that. So in the early 90s, you're,
you're in this, you're working on a new edition at the airport,
you're working in AutoCAD, you're working in many ways
around the clock. And then what is the, what does
it look like as your careers begins to pick up momentum, you

(33:53):
go from being a junior and what does that, what, when does that
first promotion come to you? And what does it look like for
you? How does it feel?
Well, I think I, I think they will shell shock to some degree
because well, you know, Portlandis, was a very different
statement that time. I'm and whatever you perceive

(34:15):
Asian people as Chinese or Filipinos to be very different.
I'm not a passive individual. I am expressive of my vision and
I had my own, I had a strong belief of where I want to go.
So to some degree, I don't thinkthat initially that I was
embraced. It took them eight years.

(34:35):
It took me 8 years to become an associate.
Normally other people are getting it three years and then
another eight. Another year and a half became
associate partner and then another year and a half to be a
principal and then two years later I was a partner.
So there was like first eight years that they're getting used
to this troublemaker and then the then the troublemaker kind

(34:59):
of like in the eighth year of the career going like, man, like
this guy is like, I think he's learning our ways and taking us
somewhere out of places. And then all the way to like
acceleration. Like I was a partner at 37.
So that was like fascinating me young, right?
And did you tell, tell me like, did you go home the day that
that was presented to you and just like sit down and like

(35:21):
revel, revel in the accomplishment of what that
meant for all the time prior to that and now what it was going
to look like going forward? No, actually like the paint the
the the image, I was asked to come to office at 7:00 the next
day. Like I heard the news about I
think late afternoon. I believe it was a Tuesday to
come or Wednesday to come to work at 7:00 in the morning the

(35:44):
next day to meet with three partners.
And I was thinking like, holy crap, I am getting fired.
And so I couldn't sleep. And then they went the next day
like when did this office like 7:00?
Nobody was there. So you don't start till 8:30.
And sat in an office my with my three partners, all in the late

(36:09):
40s, mid 50s, some Gray haired men and they sat across the
table and I'm on the other end of the table.
This young punk, you know, and, and I was like, OK, why, why,
why are we here? And they said that, well, you
know what? You're here.
And I said, I don't it's either in like, we're going after a

(36:29):
project together. You want to talk to me, but it's
really weird because there's three partners in front of me
that Matt, Matt. And then the other thing is you
get, I'm getting fired and they start laughing and they said,
no, you know, it's we're actually offering you the
partnership, A partnership. And I said, are you shitting me?
And it's like, stop shitting me.And they and they did it like

(36:51):
multiple times. And I was shaking my head
because I thought they were killing me.
And it was totally unexpected, though it's always been in my
dream. I didn't know it was the right
time. And they said, why?
I said, have you seen this? This is exactly what I did.
I said, have you seen this? And they said.
Just so you were referencing this genes just circulating,
circulating, circulating his face with his finger like this

(37:16):
is who I am. Yeah, this is like 2005, a
partnership that was 15 partners, all middle-aged white
male and in Oregon, Portland, ORoffering this brown kid a
partnership. And it was unheard of, right.
I, I didn't expect it to happen that time.
I thought it was going to take more decades for them to even
get there. But but they looked at me, they

(37:38):
said that's exactly what we wantyou because you are going to
give us a different outlook and face and and we think you're it.
So I said, well, let me think about it.
I didn't take it. I said I need some time to think
about it. It took two weeks to think about
it. And the reason I said that
because in my heart, I want, I needed to talk to my friends, my

(38:01):
close friends in the firm and asked them if it's going to
change our relationship and theysaid, no way.
We're going to, It's absolutely great.
We're going to be with you and we're going to be still friends.
That was really important for me.
And then the second thing was I looked at the landscape of the
firm and the office that if I were not to take the, if I were
not to take the offer, who couldit be?

(38:24):
And in the prospect was not verybright.
And so I talked to my friends say like Gene, if you don't take
it, it's gonna fall in the wronghands and we will be behind.
So two weeks later, now I went to New York for two weeks to get
my girlfriend and now my wife. I was literally going to ask you
that question. Next you have to confer.

(38:47):
We Were you married at the time?Did you have kids like?
I've made my girlfriend then we went to New York and I told her
she goes, Are you ready for that?
Because like, you know, and she and I said, now I think, but if
I don't take it might not come back and I'm going to work on
this firm. I rather.
So I need to consider. And then I asked one of my my
mentor, my closest partner, GregBaldwin, and I said, Greg, this

(39:09):
is my dilemma. And he told me this line.
He goes, Gene, would you be happy one day to look back that
you're always just slept in somebody else's bed or you want
to make your own bed? And I just like I left that
meeting and I said I want this job and.
And So what what came with it, Gene, like what were some of
the, do you remember at that time?

(39:32):
Like what were some of the majorrole changes that you
experienced that really altered your day-to-day and what the
next next few years of your lifewould look like?
What were what were some of those changes?
Well, I lost some friends and orI would say I found out who my
real friends are and I was surprised.

(39:55):
You know, I knew that they were going to be some disappointed
people because they were waitingin the limbs to be partner and
the partnership skip a generation.
So there were some people didn'ttalk to me for years because
they were resentful and I was I was also very young, right, the
37. So it took a while, but it just
got used. And then from that point on in

(40:17):
my mind had an idea of the kind of clients that I think we
needed the kind of client, the projects that.
I personally needed to do to push me and push the firm.
What did those look like? We wanted, the first thing I
said is that we need to be considered in Oregon and I said
we should have Nike and Phil Knight as a client.

(40:38):
And they asked me why. I said because one, it's a
design, it's a great innovative organization and Phil Knight was
going to be a great philanthropist.
And and then the second thing I said is, is that we need more
diversity in the partnership. And those are the two things I
said in my first partner meeting.
And I think three years in 22,000 and seven, we landed our

(41:02):
first project with Phil and Nike.
Were you? Were you?
You were one of the people presenting to the to them.
Yeah, I, I, I was the guy. I mean you.
Initiated it all. Yeah.
And no, when it did it all, I mean, there's nothing you do at
all. That's something that there's
any architecture student is thatthere's nothing done by.
Yourself. Well, I what I meant is that you
were you were the initiator of let's go pitch.

(41:23):
Let's go formulate the pitch to win business with them.
It was much more. It was not as direct as that it
was. It was a call that came from a
construction company that that Nike was interested or Phil
Knight was interested in doing something. 14 receive Oregon
football program small remodel. So it was a small remodel.

(41:44):
It was a 16,000 square foot remodel.
And so my managing partner Bob Backer said because let's give
let's give it to this young punk.
Let's see what they can do. So I guess they turned out OK.
I'm gonna tell you just because I I just love it.
So I actually wrote in, in when I was in university.
I wrote a small thesis, not my main thesis, but a small thesis

(42:08):
on the evolution of Nike is a brand.
And what they did and how they how they how Phil Knight took
something out of the back of histrunk and turned it into
multibillion dollar company. That was actually my desire
because one I love Nike was like, I have like such profound
romance with my first Air Max, not my Air Max, my first Nike

(42:29):
Air shoes. And then I love the fact that it
was an Oregon company that became a global brand, right?
And it was also it was sexy. Those shoes are so sexy.
It and I wanted to be associatedwith that.
And then as you get to know the organization, there was an
amazing notion of innovation and, and also like just do it.

(42:51):
They were, they were like talk about they were fears.
They were winners and they were like, they were never afraid of
anything. And I thought that was an
association with Nike would helpmold the firm and myself to a
different being. So.
So how many people were on Do you do you remember how many
people were on that initial 16,000 square foot project?

(43:13):
There were like four of us and 16,000 went to 38,000 and and it
became like the basis of at thatmoment, like the most innovative
treatment centre for athletes because at that moment the the
Oregon, the school was not getting the very best football
program, but the best football players.

(43:33):
So what they want to do is they would take a like I would say
like if there were if Alabama, USC were getting the all the
five stars at that moment that the Ducks were getting three
stars and they were lucky if they get 4 stars, is the rating
one being like you won't even make it through college?
Players. And three and Division One, you
know, and then five stars. There's like only five stars a

(43:56):
year from high school. So we do get 3 and half stars.
And Oregon decided like, look, we're going to make them the
fastest, the strongest by treating them right and treating
their injury or preventing from having injury and then letting,
if they get injured, letting himcome out stronger and healthier.
So we use all our knowledge in healthcare and, and put it in a

(44:18):
different way of creating a treatment centre that was never
been done in college sports, even professional sports for the
long time. It was like the very best in the
country. OK, so then you, so you so you
acquire, you help to acquire a team help to acquire Nike as a
client. You check that box off of your

(44:39):
list of things that you want to accomplish.
And then the second thing was like in 2007 and I was sharing
with join us and she's my my partner in crime now.
She reminded me that I asked herto come to my office and they
have an office 2007 or I coffee with them or something and asked

(45:00):
her like, would you even consider being my partner in the
future because she's leading theinteriors.
She was a really talented, talented interior architect and
I thought the two of us togetherwould be a powerhouse.
And that was 2007 and that didn't happen until 2018.
She became my partner and then within six years he's the

(45:23):
managing partner of the firm. So I mean, maybe I had a good
gut feeling. Yeah, yeah.
I would say to the 2000, now we have 2018.
We have, I think we have like 5 women in our partnership, 6
immigrants and then three LGBT. That's like a total different.
Like I'm so proud. It's so different now, you know,

(45:45):
but for the best, we didn't, we didn't do it just for the sake
of doing it to look good. We did it because it's the right
thing. Yeah, well.
And it was the right, like the right people.
They're gifted and their point of view, their lives, they live
enrich our culture and the ink rich increases our job,
increases our knowledge as a firm, as individuals how to like

(46:05):
really face the. World.
When Gene spoke about the Portland International Airport,
he didn't describe structure. He talked about light, material
and memory, about how a space can hold feeling.
That's why you sense in homes like our project of Woodycrest
where natural materials like oakand concrete form of grounded
base and a 24 foot skylight draws daylight into the place

(46:29):
that matters most. And there, in the heart of the
home, it's at the appliances bathed in natural light, not
hidden, not afterthoughts, carefully chosen not just for
performance, but for presence. For their role in bringing
people together over food, stories and shared time.

(46:51):
That's the sensibility Kaplan's Appliances understands.
For over 80 years, they've helped families find appliances
that don't just fit the specs, they fit the space, the rhythm
of daily life, the architecture of a home that's meant to last.
In the same way Jeanne spoke of spaces that feel generous,

(47:12):
luminous and intentional, Kaplans supports kitchens that
carry meaning, illuminated by both design and use.
If you want to learn more to discover how they're curated,
hands on approach makes every kitchen feel like the heart of
the home. E-mail me at
[e-mail]. I what I, what I find so

(47:34):
interesting about this to me. And I think it's something that,
that, well, maybe I'm wrong, Maybe I'm just, maybe I could be
projecting something, but I don't think so.
I think that the concept of having those goals and putting
those goals down, seeing them and then working towards
achieving them is something thata lot of people need to be
doing. Not everyone does, because then
you can actually visualize the road map to how you want to get

(47:55):
there. Yeah, I, I, it's interesting
because I'm, I'm a space cadet. Seriously, I, I really need,
like, I need some of my counterpart to help them
organize because I'm a dreamer. I mean, I could, I could stay
all day and just dream and watchthe sky and watch the grass grow
dreaming. But I always have, like, I in my
mind, I know where I want to be 5 years, always five years, five

(48:19):
years for myself. And I want what I perceive the
the firm could be in five years.So with that kind of established
and understanding, you know where you want to be and what
you want to do with yourself and, and, and the goals for the
practice and what you want to accomplish for the practice.
I know that there have been somelike incredible projects in
addition to what you've just talked about that you've been a

(48:40):
part of. So I'm curious in the time frame
that takes you from that projectwith Nike Forward, what were
some of the other really important projects that you feel
help kind of lament the practiceon a different type of scale and
different type of experience forthe staff to be able to draw on

(49:02):
their creativity? I would say that.
So I'm going to set it back in the 90s, we had several airport
projects that happen in different places that was
involved. And then when as as I was doing,
I was working with with Nike in 2007.
There was also the, the Portland, the port headquarters
for the staff. That was a pivotal project going

(49:23):
on. And then eventually, I think
the, there was 3, there's two University of Oregon building
that we're doing. And at that moment the, my, I
didn't share this with the staffand the, and the firm, but my
internal thinking was like, how can we develop this technical
design in the firm? So those projects are really

(49:46):
making it the one. The Jackal was a simple box and
everything was aligned perfect. And then two years later, the
same thing kind of grew. And we, for the University of
Oregon, we did the Hatfield Downing Football Centre.
It's a stack box. And then there are a lot of
projects that happen in between here, but this is like, because

(50:07):
I can the, the Nike was so much in innovation and pushing it
that they became a great canvas to really hone the right people.
And then the final was the Nike World headquarters here.
We did 2 buildings and we decide, OK, we've done the
perfect box. We stopped the box.
And then the next building is like, how could we detail and

(50:27):
execute something that is has all angular?
So all of this project was pushing the design team and the
technical team to learn how to do it right.
So the previous like that kind of the same team, the technical
team, a lot of them jump into what we want to talk to you
about eventually is the PortlandInternational Airport because

(50:51):
Nike from what will work for Nike and is 1 do to do world
class building and 2nd to fear nothing.
Third is to basically do something like Nike is would
spend money if they find value, but they also want to make sure
it's in the budget. So that is their culture.

(51:12):
So everything looks expensive, but it's really the best deal.
So then so I kind of that those projects kind of fulfilled my
intellectual kind of like focus on honing architecture.
And then the other part was for me that's never been met was
this sort of social and culturalside of building, which
tightened my political side of my family, my background, my and

(51:33):
we're in what how can you do a building that could lift
communities, right. And I think when we had that got
the Commission to do the Portland airport in 2014 and
would end up being a significantproject that kind of represents
sort of the front door to Oregonin the region.
I said, OK, how can we take all this technical design

(51:55):
proficiency now and how can we kind of like jump bridge it over
to a project that bridges racistcommunity, bring people
together. So I think that becomes a
Portland International Airport and.
When when you won the Commissionfor this, was there an open RFP
or was this an ongoing conversation that because you

(52:15):
had done so much work with them over the years?
Because it's a public agency, they always have to have an RFP
for certain amount of contract. It was an RFP and we were
competing against the the sort of like the big guys that have a
lot of aviation and we were the only one.
We only done one or two airports. 1 was a really tiny

(52:38):
airport, abandoned, abandoned beach.
And now there are continuing work at the airport that began
in 1954. So, but we won, you know, we
beat the big guys and we were glad.
And apparently it was a close vote.
There was one vote that was the deciding, deciding factor.
It was not a unanimous vote either.
Wow. We're always underdog.

(53:02):
Wow. And So what what, what was it
about the proposal you feel thatyou think are?
And did they tell you like, did you get the feedback?
This is why we voted for it, Yeah.
I, I think at the end of the day, they, just because of our
experience with them, but I think that we get them, you
know, we get them. And that's probably the, one of
the reasons that, that they hired us.

(53:24):
And oh, that I think I would saythat the other firms competing,
they brought schemes to solve the problem.
They brought different ideas like building images.
And we went there thinking like,we want to go on a journey with
you because it's such an important project for the state.
Why don't we kind of agree, imagine and really and truly
learn from you what you want, and then learn from what's

(53:47):
happening there and create a newphenomenon that's never been
done before? So you didn't bring it like you
didn't come to this with president images of what you
were going to look to accomplish.
It was more. So we we brought some precedent
images of aspirational stuff, but they didn't bring it.
We didn't bring a solution or a.Scheme, so to speak.
Right, right, right. So one firm brought a whole

(54:08):
model, big model with the, the how they're going to put the
roof over. I believe we brought a sectional
model to show them like how to open it up because because it's
a remodel. In addition, before it was like
all the series of tiny rooms. That's all we maybe, maybe they
just like this. Maybe we knew how to like, I
don't know. I don't know.

(54:29):
We were lucky. How how many people from your
practice were were at the meeting and how many people were
on the other side? Well, because the airport
airports are such big projects and there's normally it's driven
by a lot of engineering and other specialty consultant.
I believe there were like 17 of us in the interview from our

(54:51):
side and, and the consultants and Arab, you know, engineering
and I believe there were about six of us from CGI in the in the
interview. So some of the consultants like
you had consultants that had committed to this, the idea of
this project and came with you to help their own involvement in

(55:12):
it. Gold, you know, mechanical,
electrical, structural course important and all the way down
to aviation and landscape. I think so.
And did you know when you were meeting with them that this was
going to be something that wouldbe a mass timber project or is
that something that was developed over time and meeting
with them and establishing what the program would look?

(55:33):
Like no, it was, it was the RFP was up $480 million lobby
remodel model, that's all it was.
And as we were done, it's a goodquestion like how did it become
from this modest 180 million is not modest, but from this humble
kind of notion to this kind of phenomenal, what people are

(55:57):
calling phenomenal building. This being embraced by everybody
here was that we actually sat down with them.
We listened what they wanted andthen work with work with our
engineers and contractors to saylike, look, they want to build
something for 50 years. What's the right thing to do and
considering where they're at right now, then considering
what's the most effective betterreturning investment.

(56:19):
There was also 2014 The New YorkTimes published this article
about the Cascadian possible forCascadian earthquake.
That would be that category 9 iskind of like happy could happen
anytime, right? So that prompted us to dig
deeper and get the governor in involved when saying that making

(56:40):
that maybe this building should be resilient.
And then we realized in our survey of the building, they're
actually 12 different buildings all joined together in this, in
this in the footprint that we were gonna remodel.
So they, it prompted the curiosity that we probably have
to do something bigger because if we're doing something, if
we're going to do something, we gotta do it, right.

(57:01):
Next phase was surveying the existing condition, making sure
it's not disruptive because the baggage claim needs to work.
We did different configuration where things need to go.
Maybe it's on the other side of the runway.
You realize that there's so muchmore money involved if you build
a remote terminal because parking and you got to do a
train and people. And then we travel all around

(57:24):
the world with the see that that25 airports and all around the
country to see all the best airports us as architects and
and and consultant. And then we we kind of like pick
three or four or five that we felt kind of would resonate with
our client that we see, we thinkcaptured the words that they

(57:46):
used, which is, you know, passenger experience,
flexibility, future proofing. There was like resilience,
right, and sustainability. So those airport vent became, it
was Oslo, it was Madrid airport,it was the airport in El Cincia,

(58:07):
I believe there, it was a Hong Kong.
And that's when we then we flew them, we saw them, we saw it
with them and they decided like,man, if we're going to like, why
can't we do something big in Oregon and like Oregon is ready.
So by 2017 we had this proposal to in sort of some degree the

(58:29):
scope of what we have. And that's how it all started.
The dream kind of became bigger and bigger.
But at that moment we only had ascope.
We had an approach to do remodelin addition to keep the existing
baggage claim operational, but not thinking of it as a wood
project, right? But internally we thought like,
wow, wow, could we have a parallel path whenever we do

(58:52):
steel or hybrid, whatever it is,the conventional system, Why
don't we do timber? Just because timber is speaks so
much of our region and and we initially thought it was just
not going to pan out, right? Because it's like, no, it's
nobody's done it before. But as we dug deep deeper
inside, like we're realizing, like, man, it could actually be

(59:15):
faster. Yeah, you could be supplied by
much more, much, much closer to town because of a rich heritage
here of, of a wood. But it could be touched by much
more labour because there's so much more.
I think 10 times more woodwork would, would scale labour than
steel. And then the, the thing that was

(59:36):
really fascinating is like, wow,we can actually keep the money
locally, right? And, and spur the community.
Now, looking back, we broke ground that was also like,
there's COVID, Ukraine war, and all of those things were very
disruptive in this kind of global economy, right?

(59:58):
Yeah. So imagine how much steel.
Spiked, right? I mean even basic lumber, I mean
we what we were experiencing in our projects, we saw you know,
number went up three times as much as what it would normally
be. Yeah.
So if it was steel and we would have probably been late on this
project because of this, probably couldn't afford it,
right. And the way we built it with the

(01:00:20):
lumber was we were able to supply it with the lumber
product produced within a region.
It's just basic mulam math is plywood, big scale plywood, mass
plywood and dimensional so and then we use screws to put it
together. So it's pretty simple, you know.

(01:00:40):
Horse structure, yeah, that's timber.
Yeah, it's because everybody, that's another thing everybody
talking about Mac's mass timber is not mass timber is many
different, can take many different forms.
One of the things Gene reminds us is that architecture isn't
just about form, it's about intention.
The line of Astaire, the way light needs to tread, the rhythm

(01:01:05):
of material repetition. These aren't incidental details.
They're emotional choices. In Nowhere is that more evident
than in the staircase Berman crafted for our project with
eyes and architecture. At first glance, it appears
almost weightless. Floating solid oak treads,
perfectly mitered landings, and a sharply folded bronze guard

(01:01:27):
that catches light. Like sculpture, the geometry is
disciplined, the angles tight and resolve, but the overall
effect is warm and tactile. Set against the backdrop of
sculpted white oak panels, the stair moves with the
architecture both as a pathway and a centerpiece.
This is what Berman does. They bring deep technical

(01:01:49):
precision to the organic beauty of wood.
Their work is not just about structure, but about
storytelling, where movement, material, and mastery intersect.
In a conversation about buildingwith care and long term impact,
Gene spoke about honoring craft.Berman Stairs does that with
every Stringer joint. In turn, their staircases aren't

(01:02:14):
just ways to move, their ways toexperience the space itself.
[e-mail] e-mail me
[e-mail] for an introduction.
So question about this. I told you I had spoken to a
number of different people aboutthis project and my excitement
about this project. So I actually had a question

(01:02:35):
from a partner here in in Toronto and another architect in
Toronto. His name is Bill Duson and I
asked, I asked him, I said do you have a quite he loves mass
timber and sustainability. So he had a question about, OK,
Bill wants to know, you know, mass, mass timber structures are
natural for prefabrication. So can you elaborate about this

(01:02:55):
marriage of method and material on the Portland airport?
So great question, right. So when we first start thinking
of mass using wood, use mass timber, because such a buzzword,
we were thinking about if you can use word for this project,
we had so many different ideas architecturally how to do it.

(01:03:17):
And what we found out is that wewere so much ahead of that
building technology forward. So a lot of those things like
got cut and it's going to actually being shown right now.
And we have a a model exhibit showing that wood proposal that
didn't make it. So one of the things we did was
we start building a relationshipwith Timberland because Timber

(01:03:39):
Lab was this aspirational small company that's willing to change
the way wood is made. They were building where they
were tying digital technology, CNC machine, machine with good
working. That was actually, I would say
the moment when we said, OK, nowwe realized that this is Timber

(01:04:03):
Lab and the way that digital fabrication has caught up with
the way we want to do wood that can, we can almost start shaping
with us if they were Lego pieces.
So going back. So it becomes really tuned to
module modular construction and prefabrication because because

(01:04:23):
right now you're their input is parametric model, right?
And they would take our model and they would sort it out and
they would put the wood, they could either CNC machine it and
cut it out of pieces or shape it.
So it was a it was kind of like a direct link.
And in doing so, this piece is came together and they would, we

(01:04:46):
don't need spacers when we did with the wood.
We just come together and just screw it in place.
We save a lot of time and it's fascinating.
So the question was like, yeah, it's naturally fitted for
modular construction in different scale, but also
prefabrication. And Timber Lab, I think from
what I recall you telling me last time too is that they were

(01:05:06):
relatively young company or thatthey the scale of production
wasn't in, they weren't as much as they were ready.
They didn't know that this was going to be as as big a project
as what it turned out to be. Well, it was basically 3 or 4
place that wanted to start an offshoot of unit and
construction. Yeah.
And this is this was the, this was gonna be their first

(01:05:28):
project. That's it.
In All in all of the wood that was sourced for this was all
within a certain radius. What was it?
Was so, so then we started thinking that one of the
interesting thing is like, OK, we know and do it, but with what
we know it could come, we can build it faster.
That's one of the we were able to build it between 3:00 or six

(01:05:51):
months faster on a project that scale.
That's a ton of money because ofthis escalation.
It was lighter than steel, so it's lighter to install and the
resources are closer to us, so you have less transportation.
And and then we say, Hey, what if it came from the small
farmers? Like let's kind of bridge, like
let the, the small rural communities be a part of it,

(01:06:13):
right? So that's when we start digging
in and we realized that there was a lot of sustainable farms
within 300 miles that could really benefit from the, you
know, not only harvesting the wood.
We said like, OK, why don't we just use it with like a six by
two or eight by three that they can cut with their mill because

(01:06:34):
the money is actually in the cutting, not in the harvesting.
So that became like, wow, it happened.
And So what were like, what weresome of these meetings like
initially? Like I, I, I would imagine that
when you, when, when they were, when Timber Lab was awarded this
project, these four guys, it wasthe same as you sitting across

(01:06:56):
from those three partners. I think it was we came together.
It was sort of like the innocence.
There's such innocence and but still a lot of curiosity that
allowed the free thinking reallycame to the table with such a
perceived notion that it's goingto do this or that.
We were trying to invent things,you know.

(01:07:17):
Yeah. Well, they were fresh out this
right. So they have that open mindness
to be able to go and and create something together in a way that
if they had been established for40 years, they may well you
know, we do it this. Way and and I think one of the
things that this different than than the other projects this
there that's never people don't talk about is that the Portland

(01:07:39):
airport was done with the technology of material wood
materials that was available within the region like glue.
Lamb is been done for 100 years or more.
It can be supplied in Eugene OR 120 miles away.
Mass plywood is the same thing, which is plywood and then they

(01:07:59):
mention all wood that's under after it's everywhere.
So it was not any of those exotic conversation about CLT or
anything because at that moment there's only two CLT suppliers
in America, right. Yeah.
So we were truly creative, Not we didn't think about
architecture as just architecture.

(01:08:20):
We looked at the whole thing, right.
And you know, like somebody asked me, I said it's go see,
when you talk about Portland International Airport, we always
talk about wood. But it's it's not really just a
wood story. It's actually ingenuity story.
Like how can we build this building with the the such?
It's such an economical buildingbecause it's like we it's not

(01:08:41):
expensive. It's not cheap.
It's in the middle of the range,a project of an airport of this
size building America. So it's mid price.
So like how can we build it the most efficient way?
If there were a lot more steel manufacturing and and a lot more
milling or anything could be steel.
If there was a lot of concrete technology happening here, could

(01:09:01):
have been concrete. If they have the technology for
carbon footprint and concrete was kind of leading the way in
in Oregon and could have been concrete.
So it's wood was because it was natural to the place.
Right. What were some of the toughest
challenges to overcome in the inthe initial phase of the of the

(01:09:23):
evolution of this project? I would say it's, it's truly
when we this pushing, like having the guts to push it
toward because it's never been done before.
It was a really difficult decision internally and with the
contractor client, we really hadto prove all the pieces were
tied together that we cannot, that it's going to be possible.

(01:09:45):
So that was scary, but but we don't, we like as a firm, we
don't turn down good challenges.Yeah.
And with the you know. So here we are.
Yeah, good consultants. Good consultants definitely help
make these concepts. Doable, yeah.
And then the second thing is just getting the city and the

(01:10:06):
fire testing to make sure that this is actually be able to
resist. The two are like the survive the
two hour fire rating. That was actually one of my
upcoming questions was about nowfire safety and what did that
look like. Yeah.
Well, there's a lot of testing that we did with Fire Lab and
there was a lot of involvement of the fire Marshall, but also

(01:10:27):
the city and the, and the inspector and our way and
thinking about the way that the way we build it in the prefab
yard to help that because we build it on the end of the
runway, we build it 18 feet off the ground.
So all this individuals, all theinspectors could see it first
hand every day. And so that prefab yard allowed

(01:10:51):
that kind of relationship with them that brought forth trust
and. Confidence.
Yeah. And then second is all the
testing. So we did, we had all the in
testing labs that for the charring, but then the
assemblies and then we build it in a way that it's up in the
air. So the fire on the ground with

(01:11:14):
all the combustible would never reach it or or would it would
take two hours to reach it if ever that would happen.
So it's going to ask you like what is like some of the best
successes as like mini successesthat you had in this, But I feel
like it's almost too easy for. Question I think.
That there are many wins, right?There's small wins throughout
this at each stage. Was there like 1 big hurdle that

(01:11:37):
you had to overcome through the engineering phase that when you
hit that and you passed it that you were like Oh my God this is
doable? Because we have to keep the
baggage claim operational. Yeah, process and it's always on
the ground floor and ticketing is normally in the second floor,
right. So the, the Eureka moment was we

(01:11:57):
realized that if we use 100 footspan, we could go in between the
baggage claim, some of the machines and put new pilings
underneath in a very surgical manner and build over the
baggage claim. So that's one.
Second was finding an amusement park.
Yes, yes. And then the second part was

(01:12:18):
like finding a machine that's like could fit on those rooms
that could go down and create those pilings.
And then the other moment was getting in connection with
Mahmoud, which is the Dutch moving company that coming to
town. And they said, yeah, 9 acres, we
can all move it in one, one try.That was like, OK, we got the

(01:12:39):
movers to move the roof. So yeah, I mean, then we had
another win was Timber Lab and then getting Hoffman and scans
get together because there's such great construction partners
all along. And they were so good in terms
of like designing the, the, the,the notion of, of free
provocation and the fab yard. Yeah.

(01:13:00):
So there's like so many small moments, small and big moments
that add to this. Again, it don't, it don't it
takes a village to do something like this.
And finally, the small but big moment was seeing how people
would weep when they first saw the project.
Well, there's OK, So before you go into the depth, any depth on

(01:13:22):
that, one of the things that youhad told me in our initial call,
which has resonated with me and I think about it all the time
with my own children, OK, we talked about your son.
Oh, yeah. So because of just how amazing
this is. So, you know, and we, we, you
only really touched on, you know, now your wife, 37 years
old, became partner, girlfriend,now wife, you have a kid.

(01:13:43):
So this, if you can just explainthat element alone, because the
combination to me of making thiswhole story and the, the, the
purpose of this podcast is humanizing what you do, right?
So your son, how old was your son when you started this?
Project it's interesting, like the influence of this project is

(01:14:04):
profound, not only for the city,for our firm or consultants, but
also in the personal matter. I we, we got it reminds me that
we got this project in 2014. My son was one of my oldest son
was five years old. So it opened, you know, he was
15 years old. Ten years later, the night

(01:14:26):
before opening, we went there tocheck it with my son and I
didn't tell him where we're going.
We went in and the first thing he said is like, wow, this is
what your life been for the past10 years.
I don't know any anymore. And then second he goes, this is
like a world class. I can be any in any part of the
world. Then he said.

(01:14:48):
Well, it smells like wood, he said.
It's lovely. This is Oregon, and then we will
walk around a little bit more, he said.
He's so peaceful. I want to make sure I'll come
here 3 or 4 hours before my nextdeparture and just be here and
enjoy, enjoy the space. And they're like, yes, you know,

(01:15:09):
because there's such a really primal, kind of like,
adulterated kind of reaction. I never asked them to say so.
And he didn't even know we're going there.
But for him to feel that, yeah, that's great.
Yeah, look, man, as Gina is a fan of for as a fan of Nike,
Portland's a place I've always wanted to go because I just, I

(01:15:30):
love the concept that Nike started there.
But then I think when I emailed you about doing, about doing
this and talking about this, talking about you and talking
about the practice, but talking about this project, I was saying
how like, I just want to know. I just wanted to look, fly to
Portland and just hang out in the airport.
No, I think you should. You should come.
I think that my my fascination with Nike was like Nike is from

(01:15:50):
a little state from Oregon that made it big and made some
things. And for a firm that came out of
Oregon, I thought we could make it big, do something big and
disruptive and memorable. So that's why I kind of, you
know, I think our triangles paths together, this to me
enticing. Yeah, I look and you think about

(01:16:12):
what you said early stage of this discussion about what it
was like when you entered the first time into the US, into
America and you walk into the airport.
And now what the what the next generation of new immigrant gets
to experience when they walk in to this place and they think of
what the possibilities are that one of the lead design people on

(01:16:33):
this was a new immigrant for thecountry.
Yeah, I mean, it's amazing, you know, but but that's always been
the story of America, right, Saramen, Right.
Saarinen did a lot of those airports and I think his first
or second generation. Let's check that.
Like, let's see, like if he was actually a Arrow Saranan, if he

(01:16:55):
was a first generation. Yeah, it was a Finnish American
architect. Yeah.
Right. It's, it's amazing.
It really is. It's, it's, I mean, all all of
this gene has been so amazing. It's, it's breath of fresh air
to hear the, the discussion about like the evolution of you
as a professional and how you have been able to, to amass such

(01:17:17):
an amazing career to date with so much more ahead of you.
And to hear about the, the evolution of this project.
For those of you that are listening now, what I'll tell
you is that we're going to do a Part 2.
Sharon's gonna join in. We'll talk a little bit with her
about the early stages of her career.
Gina, be a part of this as well.And we're going to talk in

(01:17:38):
greater depth about the exploration of what this airport
turned into as a project. Well, we've touched on a lot of
it. Now there's more to get into
because Sharon was also heavily designed in the interiors on
this. So I want to say to you, thank
you for being so gracious and spending so much time with me
just now. It has been an absolute
pleasure. I look forward to Part 2 and
having that conversation. Oh, thank you.

(01:18:01):
There's so many parts of this project, but it's touching a lot
of people, a lot of hearts, and so we love to share the stories.
Yeah, well, and it's it's to me,to me like, you know, and I
think to people listening, it's important that the people that
were part of this are the ones that get to tell the story.

(01:18:21):
And it's not up to a critic and it's not up to a columnist to
write something about it. It's in your words.
It's it's from you. It's designed by you.
So you. Should tell it thank you.
Thank you. This is such an honor.
And no, it's the the airport. It's a story of its own.
It's an airport that is for the region.

(01:18:43):
And I wish that I would like to the people that used it to tell
their story and because it's a space for everybody.
Yeah, Well, thank you, Gene. I, I look forward to, to the to
the next conversation. For those that, of you that are
listening now, I would ask you, please make sure that you look
for the Instagram account that Ihave.
It's called behind the build. It's a blue logo.

(01:19:05):
And the reason I say it is because you'll be able to see
the visuals of the projects thatGina has described will be it
will be posting those to be ableto see what that looks like.
You can obviously head over to ZGF's website and you'll be able
to see a whole portfolio of their work.
I appreciate the time, Gene, andagain look forward to the next
conversation. Thank you so much and it's been

(01:19:28):
a pleasure meeting you and thankyou guys for all listening and
having the patience to hear a little bit about our story.
So thank you. Thank you.