Behind the Build: Shane Czypyha - Parkin Architects

Shane Czypyha is a principal at Parkin Architects and one of the founding forces behind their Vancouver office. A graduate of the University of Waterloo, Shane’s path into architecture began early, shaped by childhood sketching sessions, a basement full of LEGO, and a family of builders in small-town Ontario. That hands-on foundation led him to explore not just the built form but the systems and relationships that make good architecture possible.

Over the last 12 years, Shane has helped Parkin’s West Coast studio grow from five people to nearly 100, building a portfolio rooted in healthcare and community-focused design. His work spans Canada’s most ambitious hospital projects, from Vancouver to the Maritimes, and includes the country’s first all electric hospital and some of the first healthcare facilities designed under the alliance contract model.

Shane’s passion lies in architecture as care. His team’s work centers on designing environments that foster healing, inclusion, and connection, whether through thoughtful planning, evidence based principles, or deep collaboration with health authorities, Indigenous partners, and builders. In addition to design, he is a leading voice in rethinking how large scale public projects are delivered, advocating for contracts and structures that prioritize people over process.

He lives in North Vancouver, surrounded by the landscapes that first drew him west, and remains as curious today as when he first picked up a floor plan magazine as a kid

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Episode Transcript

(00:09):
Welcome to Behind the Build. I am your host, Jonathan Jacobs.
And before I introduce today's guest, I want to remind you,
please, if you're listening on astreaming platform, give this
five stars. This podcast needs it for some
exposure. It helps other people see it.
You're listening to it. You found it somehow.
Let's help others find it. And another reminder that if you

(00:36):
want to see the work of the people that I speak with here, I
would highly recommend you checkout Behind the Build on
Instagram. It's a blue logo, same as what
you're looking at on any of the streaming services.
It's same, same logo. And you'll be able to see the
visuals of the dialogue that we described on the on the podcast.
So without further ado, I'm excited to introduce Shane Sibia

(00:59):
from Parkin, also known as Parkin Architects.
They're based out of Vancouver, BC in Canada.
And you have, do you also have another office, right?
Yeah, we have Toronto office, which is our original office and
we also have an Ottawa office. Right, so, so 3 offices and
Shane. So thanks for taking time.
She's based on the West Coast. So it's really early for him in

(01:22):
some ways comparatively to to mymid-day stretch here.
Shane and I spoke to the end of 2014 and just kind of got an
introduction to each other and what this podcast is about
understand a little bit more about him and his involvement at
the practice. She's one of the principles.
And so she and I will open it upto you by asking you, as I do

(01:44):
everyone, at what stage of your life did you start getting
involved in some level of like doodling or design, and what
sparked that interest in you early on?
Yeah, thanks so much for having me, Jonathan.
It's a pleasure to to join you really enjoy the podcast.
So I wanted to be an architect since I was 5.

(02:06):
I don't, I don't know that I actually did want to, but I I
don't think I knew what it meant.
But, you know, adults around me told me that I must be this
budding architect. And so that's what I started
saying I wanted to be. The reason really was because I
was obsessed with Lego. Yeah, I had a, had a small Lego
town that took up most of the room in the basement and, and
was absolutely obsessed with it,you know, building, you know,

(02:28):
St. networks and houses and buildings and things.
And then I also grew up in a small town with a huge extended
family. And so Graham in Exeter, ON.
So if you know, Grand Bend on Lake Huron, it's a, it's the
next town over. And I had a, a grandpa and a

(02:49):
couple uncles and several cousins that were all
carpenters. So I was constantly around
building. I was around renovations,
additions, new houses, kitchens,you know, being torn apart, deck
builds. And I think it was when I was
maybe eight or nine, one of my uncles gave me this, this
hundred house floor plans magazine, the kind that you,
you'd pick up at like Home Hardware or something.

(03:11):
And so my dad gave me graph paper.
And, you know, I started, I studied the book and started
drawing my own houses and imagining, you know, buildings
of my own. And I guess the, I, I was
thinking about, I know you're going to ask me this question.
I was thinking about when I was 10.
That's when my parents decided that we needed to move to London
so that they could shorten theircommute to work.

(03:33):
And I was very against this, really wanted to stay in Exeter.
I, I, I loved my life there. So I broke out the draft paper
and, and started designing an addition to our house.
I somehow thought that, you know, maybe if the house was
better, we'd stay. And so I ended up, it was a
raised bungalow. I ended up designing effectively
a side split, like kind of the traditional side split that you

(03:55):
see all over suburban Ontario. And were you just, that was just
an idea that you would come to or was it because you have been
studying what was going on in the in other houses in the area
and that was something that you saw an opportunity?
I want to say you know my post Rationalizing Architect self
wants to say that I looked at the site and and this was the
solution that best fit the site.Yeah, 9.

(04:18):
I probably was just ripping it off from one of these designs in
the book, but I wasn't able to convince my parents to stay.
But they ended up buying a side split in London, so they must
have liked the design at least. So it was kind of my initial
start and then, you know, high school, getting into tech
design, learning AutoCAD, doing a Co-op placement and, and next

(04:38):
thing I know I'm applying to Waterloo and that's where I went
to for both my undergrad and masters.
I want to ask you a silly question about the Lego because
I was also vehemently play basedin Lego and Playmobil, which was
obviously less not as loose as what think it could be where you
the type of Lego user, you know that's the right word, but we'll

(05:01):
go. With enthusiast.
There as much better. Oh your addiction is way better
than mine. Or are you the type of
enthusiast that like to follow the plans that were provided
with the pieces? Or did you build and then
destroy and mix it all together and then rebuild your own
creations as you described? Well, I always loved receiving

(05:23):
the new box of Lego and following the plan and come, you
know, building it coming to fruition.
So, you know, maybe that was thecontractor side of my family.
But then you immediately you tear it apart, you play with it
for a couple days and then you tear it apart and then you start
doing other things with it. That's really where where I
loved it. I, it's funny, you know, when I
was, when I was young, I used tobuild them and then I would, I

(05:45):
would tear them apart and then I'd build it again based on the
instructions. And every time I would try to
reduce a page of the instructions to keep it in
memory. And seem like you're destined to
be a contractor. It's actually and it within our
organization. It's not what I do.
I don't have not involved in theconstruction this much, but but

(06:06):
that just the kind of like trying to train your mind to
remember the the connectivity ofit and the pieces.
Yeah, anyhow and bought and I'vehad boxes and boxes of it which
you now I should have realized Ishould have kept all of it,
right. Imagine you had kept it all.
It would save so much money for kids.
Very true. I did.
My parents did ship across the country to me and Vancouver a

(06:29):
small box of my original Lego. So they still had it, they still
in the side split. They're not on the side, but
yeah, they they moved to the West Coast as well.
OK, alright, so, so yeah, so, sosorry.
So now going back, we're sittingin the DeLorean and we've, we
just went back and we're gonna go forward again.
Sure. We're going to number, we're
going to Back to the future #2 So you go to University of

(06:53):
Waterloo for your, for your education and post secondary and
describe that. Like what was that experience
like for you? Well, it was eye opening between
the Co-op program and and the Rome program.
Your eyes are open to the world and they do such a great job of
bringing in a terrific mix of incredibly talented students

(07:15):
through the interview process. I felt like I felt impostor
syndrome when I when I got accepted because I went for my
interview and it was Rick Haldenby, the the director at
the time, the longtime director and a few students that
interviewed me and I look back and I was woefully
underprepared. I had some sketches, little some
drawings. I played a song on the guitar

(07:37):
that I wrote. I showed her interview in my
interview. I showed a couple reviews.
I showed a couple movies on VHS for like small for short films
that I created for our high school Film Festival.
Remember, Rick was so kind how he put it, but you have a lot of
diverse interests, but you don'thave the visual artistic ability
of many of your peers. How how might you overcome this?

(08:00):
And it was a little stark to hear, but you know, and I came
up with some answer, but, you know, he accepted me.
He appreciated me and I appreciated his pointing that
out. But I really learned that like
Waterloo has this cultural history stream that is an
absolute strength to the program.
I learned a lot over over my time there that architecture
really isn't just about, you know, beautiful images.

(08:23):
The architect is, is this conduit of communication and,
and, and storytelling. So like things like debate or,
or dialogue, arguments, persuasion, but also compassion
and celebration, support, visioning.
That's all kind of part of what it is to be an architect.
And the visual medium is, is really just one of them

(08:44):
communication methods. So I just really, you know, I, I
took away so much from that at Waterloo and it's, it's how I
realized that I could fit in even if I wasn't the best
sketcher or, or, you know, visual artist.
Was going to say, I think one ofthe other adjectives I would
throw in there is like an extractor.
You know, that's like one of thekey components of what I have

(09:06):
come to understand of architecture is that you need to
be able to extract information from the client.
All of the Gray that happens from what happens on site, like
they just have to sift through and pull it out of people to be
able to find what that solution is.
Yeah, absolutely. And and synthesizer.
Yeah, you extract and then you synthesize.

(09:28):
I like this. We're using all terms from like
the 80s and 90s. So for those that are unaware,
OK, if you're listening to this and you're born in like the late
90s, perhaps the early 2000s, you very well might not know
what VHS is. Just for some educational
purpose here. It's a video home system.
It's a tape that you inject, youinject into a device to play a

(09:52):
movie. OK, yes, I know Netflix and
chill or you just using a remoteto go find your movie or show.
But back then, we used to be able to watch.
You have to go to a store and rent them.
Or tape off of TV. Or I was going to say, or tape
off TV and if you want really deep into that, you would tape
and then you would pause the recording at commercials to have

(10:15):
one seamless movie. Yeah, absolutely.
That was the art. So.
So I completely digressed yet again.
Appreciate. It so you, you have this
fantastic experience at school. And so tell me what it was like
when you were able to go to Rome.
Like how how did that change your perception of the world
that you knew? Because it is such, it's such a

(10:36):
variation from what you would have grown up with.
Oh yeah, Oh yeah, It was my. How do you traveled much prior
to that? Well, maybe answer that
question. Maybe I'll start with Coop,
because I was this Exeter and London kid and really hadn't I
actually imagined a life where Iwas going to return and open a

(10:57):
practice in London ON. That's sort of what where I
pictured my life going by. Parking for later on.
I, I'm OK, I'll let someone elsehandle that office, but the
Co-op program is, is really amazing.
Two years worth of experience and it's over 5 Co-op terms,

(11:18):
right. And so you get this great chance
to see either, you know, your local community, exposure to
architecture firms and differentstyles, but also experience
other cultures around the world.So I did one of my Co-op terms
in Victoria and really enjoyed that.
It was the summer in Victoria and I spent a bunch of time in
Vancouver and I realized I really liked this coast that I

(11:41):
think Vancouver is a compelling city.
I want to come back to that. So I did an 8 month pull up
there and, you know, worked withvia architecture and then that
was the, you know, eight months where I really got to see the
West Coast and fall in love withit and, you know, experience all
of the big and amazing things about it.
Like like, you know, skiing the mountains or surfing the coast
or, or things like that, travelling down to places like

(12:02):
Seattle or beyond. And, you know, then I actually
did my final Co-op term in Honolulu, which might have had
something to do with those tripsto Tofino was becoming very
avid, very beginner surfer at the time.
So yeah, that coop program givesyou this amazing opportunity to
start to see the world. But the Rome program, that was
my first time going to Europe and you know, that's incredibly,

(12:26):
incredibly eye opening. I, you know, I spent over three
months in, you know, Rome, the Eternal City, and, you know, we
get to spend a whole bunch of time on these field trips to the
north, to the South, you see all, all whole ton of Italy, so
many small cities, big cities, ancient sites, you know,

(12:47):
recalled Hamby, who I mentioned before is this incredible, this
incredible vessel of knowledge about, you know, ancient Rome
and antiquity. And, you know, so that's
amazingly eye opening. But then also it's, it's so
close to so many other parts of Europe.
So I spent a lot of my time myself in Western Europe,
traveling with friends, seeing other cities, kind of learning
about a very different conditionof urbanity, you know,

(13:10):
day-to-day life in, in these dense urban centres, pedestrian
streets and, and, and beautiful public spaces.
And just really saw so far beyond that suburban vindication
that I grew up in our small towncondition.
I loved it so much that I actually went back and did my
first term of masters as well atRome.

(13:31):
So I did a second kick at the can, another kind of 3-4 month
stint where I spent, you know, more time traveling to other
European cities and, and, you know, really kind of started.
I ended up doing a a very urban focused masters thesis that that
was looking at at pedestrianization of of cities

(13:52):
and and spaces. Something that's become so
prevalent nowadays. Yeah, active transportation and
and you know, public space and public forum.
OK. And so, so you finished your
masters and then and then. What?
Did life look like at that point, right you, you were in
Rome and what you? I did four months in Rome and
then finished the masters in in the architecture school school

(14:14):
in Cambridge and Cambridge itself is another interesting
thing. I actually started my my
undergrad on main campus in Waterloo, got kind of a sixpence
that everyday university life, you know, living in a dorm and
friends and other faculties and and playing intramural sports
and and things like that. And then partway through

(14:35):
undergrad, the new school openedin Cambridge, which really was a
great thing. It was a beautiful setting in
this terrific building that thatwas renovated and designed to,
you know, sitting along the river.
And it was just so that we were 400 students moved from main
campus that were very alone. So we really had to form our

(14:56):
community. We had to work really hard to
create that new community. And that's one of the big
takeaways I got from Waterloo islike the strength of community
and how architecture itself has got a lot of individuals and a
lot of personality, but it's, it's not an individual thing.
It's, it's really about the people around you who you work

(15:16):
with and who you work for. So that was one of the huge
takeaways. We really built this amazing
blossoming community in this newbuilding kind of all alone down
there in Cambridge and really made the most of it with a lot
of incredible efforts by, you know, student societies and, and
kind of creating our own social scene or network and, you know,

(15:37):
running gallery events or, or like touches and things like
that, where we really kind of started to share in our work and
sharing our life and sharing ourin, in our social scene.
And, and you know, that was a huge take away for me there.
And do you still keep in touch with many of the students that
you you'd gone to school with that are now either acting
professionals or moved on to different?

(15:58):
Fields, yeah, an absolute ton ofthem.
I'm very close with many of themand a few of them live a few
blocks away from me here in, in North Vancouver or in, in, in
the Lower Mainland. Some of my very close friends,
some are, are principals or, or,you know, management in firms in
Ontario. Recently chatting with a friend

(16:18):
who's who's shifting careers in Hong Kong.
We have an amazing kind of tightknit, almost like family like
group that that studied together.
So we were really fortunate for that.
It's nice, you know, as you're saying, I can see this smile,
smile on your face talking aboutthis and it's like it's an
important thing. When I went to, I went to school
and I did not have that same type of a connectivity in school

(16:41):
to post school. When I say post like from post
secondary stayed in touch. It's a tough thing.
It's a really tough thing. And you know, it can be
transactional, but it's hard to make it meaningful.
Yeah. Well, it's also because because
the program is a relatively small program, right?
Like there's there's a handful of people that are selected to
be a part of it on again in a given year.

(17:02):
Yeah, it was 60 in my year. So you know, it's, it's, it's
possible to know 60 people and it's really possible to know
twenty of them incredibly well. Yeah, that's very fair.
OK, so, so you, so you finished your masters and then what?
What did it look like for you? Where did where did you go?
Did you go directly to a practice or did you have another
summer job that took over and you led led you down a different

(17:24):
path? What did it look like?
So I, I was very strategic with my masters thesis.
I was reimagining downtown Vancouver and kind of critiquing
the, the public space and the kind of ethos of Vancouver and
looking at a pedestrian solution.
So I had to spend time in Vancouver during my master's
thesis to, you know, to go and do research so I could go back

(17:46):
and spend time in the city I loved.
And then when I finished my masters, it was a race to
Vancouver as fast as possible. I couldn't wait to get back.
And it was the Olympics coming to town right around that time.
So I ended up getting a job withCannon Design, who had designed
the Richmond Olympic Oval, whichwas the, the cornerstone, the
centerpiece architecture of the Olympics.
And so I was really excited about that.

(18:07):
I was really excited about theirsports work and thought, you
know, this could be really exciting getting into port
facilities designed. But I ended up being put onto a
P3 hospital project in northern BC.
That's public private partnership.
And I really, I would say I learned an appreciation for the,
the puzzle that healthcare planning presents.

(18:29):
There's like these intensive requirements that that involve
things like adjacencies, flows, and, and really just like the
relationship of spaces. And I guess like the challenge
that's presented by creating good layouts that really respond
to these needs, diverse requirements.
And then on top of that, there'sa really terrific group of

(18:51):
professionals there at Cannon that I met some great people
that I still stay in touch with today.
And so that was that was sort ofwhat got me started in Vancouver
proper. After graduating, I then worked
at Frankel for one year for. How long?
How long were you at that? Again, Cannon between two and
three years, I thought I wanted to break from healthcare and

(19:13):
went to ankle and got some experience on a really cool
project live VR airside operations building.
I stepped into a job captain role there, but I also got a
taste of kind of high rise residential condo design.
And I really quickly learned that that wasn't what I wanted.
And that's around that time is when one of these amazing

(19:34):
mentors from Canon reached out to me and came calling asking if
I'd like to join this new officethat parking was establishing in
Vancouver because they needed a BIM manager.
I actually in one of my Co-op terms learned, you know, learned
BIM from one of the kind of driving forces in BIM adoption
in Vancouver and BC man named Dmitri Havelis, who who probably

(19:56):
taught, you know, hundreds of Vancouver based architects how
to use use it. And I was one of his early
students. So I was fortunate to kind of be
in on the ground floor there with Revolution.
And so, you know, I was a bit ofa commodity I suppose at that
time. I got pulled back over to
parking to join them for a P3 hospital pursuit on Vancouver

(20:18):
Island. And yeah, that's how my journey
started at Park and that was about. 12 years ago.
And so how many, how many peoplewere at the at the Vancouver
office that you were part of helping to establish?
I was the 5th. You were the 5th person there.
That's right. Yeah.
We were starting kind of based on the backs of winning 1P3

(20:39):
project remotely. It was enough to establish an
office in Vancouver and then, you know, this was our first
real attempt at winning a local project based out of Vancouver.
And of the five people that werethere, were the other 4 all
based out of Vancouver or did they bring in anyone from the
from Toronto? So John Mcsween, one of the

(21:02):
directors at that point, relocated to Toronto.
Another employee came with him. They hired the young, the mentor
that I was mentioning from Cannon, and then he brought in
myself and one other person fromCannon.
And next thing you know, we've got this little team hired a
student, you know, and then we got the ragtag group that, you
know, that was enough to do a pursuit for one of these P3

(21:24):
hospitals. Wild.
So that first hospital is essentially the catalyst for the
entire operation to now to have how many people now?
We're approaching 100. 100 people at the office.
In British Columbia, we have a few remote workers on Vancouver
Island and a few in the interior.

(21:45):
But yeah, it would be approaching 90 locally.
Wow. OK, so if my math is right,
that's like, you know, if you ifyou had about 5 for a project,
then so you're you got to go 20 hospitals or something like
that. It's not a direct correlation,
though. We grew as the projects of have

(22:05):
evolved. So then tell me, tell me about
the tell me about the evolution of the practice since you were
one of the first five. What has 12 years of parking in
Vancouver look like? Yeah, that's a great question.
So we originally were pursuing akind of a double project.
It was 2 community hospitals andand you know, kind of mid,

(22:27):
smaller, mid-size communities inVancouver Island.
They were supposed to be sort oflike for like we didn't win that
one. And then from there, we were,
you know, constantly pursuing our first.
We got a small kind of, it was afit out project of some shell
floors that at Vernon Jubilee Hospital.
We then won a small project, a mental health project we

(22:48):
consider small. I guess it was about a, if I
recall correctly, 100,000 squarefeet at Vancouver General
Hospital. So that was the Joseph Rose
Rosalie Siegel Centre and that was sort of our first major win
in the Vancouver office. And that then led to a Penticton
Regional Hospital, you know, which was maybe 2 1/2 times the
size of that and then eventuallymoving on to Royal Inland

(23:11):
Hospital and Kamloops, you know,a bit bigger than that.
Then next comes what was at the time maybe the biggest project
in BC for a hospital project, a Royal Columbian and US minister.
So each project you see getting bigger and bigger, each team
that needs is needed to execute it needs to get bigger and
bigger. So it's not the the business

(23:33):
model park and wide, but the Vancouver office itself.
We we have a fairly small numberof projects because we have such
large teams dedicated to them. So I wanted to ask you given
what you're you're talking aboutin that kind of sequential
growth, how was the business able to acquire the
opportunities? Was it through RFP processes or
was it through some some connections through the initial

(23:57):
setup that you had the connections from the Toronto
office Like how did the how did it come to be that you had these
opportunities? So it's generally all through
RFP processes and they're basically all design, build and
public private partnerships. We have a longstanding
partnership with several, well, with a couple of the top

(24:17):
builders or contractors in, in the country.
We're definitely one of the first architects that they call
when there's a project they're interested in, in the healthcare
field or in kind of more broadlythe social architecture field.
And so that is those are good relationships to have because
you need a good contractor in design, build modeler and a P3
model. It's, it's a huge part of it.

(24:38):
So that partnership has helped us and it's a proven track
record that, you know, started with our Ontario work and and,
you know, has kind of continued on with our success in
Vancouver. So you're the main focus that
you're looking at is healthcare.Yeah, that would be fairly
accurate. We in the Vancouver office have

(24:59):
been a victim of successive our ability to win these hospital
projects, which is kind of slowed our ability to build
other sectors. But in our Toronto and Ottawa
offices, we have a pretty diverse portfolio that expands
far beyond that. We have a our vision statement
is creating environments that positively impact lives.
So we really pride ourselves on tackling projects that we

(25:21):
consider to be social architecture.
And it's, it's really about prioritizing the needs of the
community, the well-being of thecommunity and all of our
projects. And we see it as striving to
create environments that promotehuman connection, health,
happiness, and, and just kind ofstrengthen community.
And, you know, you have to thinkabout how our projects and how

(25:42):
our work impacts the world really on the day-to-day level.
So like, what are some what are some of the elements that you
would you look to apply? Because you know, when you
people I talk to, when you talk about a hospital, like you think
of this like stark place that insome ways almost like this is a
terrible thing to say, but like almost like welcomes the end of
life in some way, right? I don't, I don't want to say it

(26:06):
because there's because there's,you know, there's birthing
suites, but then there's also palliative care, right?
So how do you look at that from the from an opportunity to be
able to see those that are on that are on a potentially chat
in a challenging stage of life, to be able to be there and feel
that the environment is there tohelp actually invigorate them

(26:28):
and get them back into the world.
Because it's a, it's a massive, massive undertaking to kind of
infuse someone with the desire for for more life and that that
environment does it or doesn't. It yeah, it does or doesn't,
it's true. It's the success of the care is
starts with the success of the building as a project.

(26:49):
So like, I think that's probablythe three-part answer, 4 part
answer, maybe 5, I don't know. You take it however you gonna go
and we'll just, we'll run with it.
OK, Well there's a few things wehave mission statements at park
in that like I do really believeand you know one of them is
about partnerships. I'll just look at my at it from
the website. We foster collaboration,

(27:11):
partnerships and the sharing of knowledge to build better
communities. Really from this, it's you come
into a project and we don't approach it with a sense of ego.
There's not some kind of definitive parking style that we
need to impose on the project. The thing I think that makes
U.S. special is that each partner, each project is a

(27:31):
partnership. So that means we start by
listening to the client and learning from them.
Then we say, OK, we're coming inwith our own knowledge from past
experiences. So we share those those
experiences, we share that knowledge and from there it's a
collaborative approach to develop solutions that really
are honing in on that specific clients, very specific needs.

(27:55):
The partnership with the client is critical.
And then on top of that, becausethey're all P3 or design build
projects, the partnership with the contractor is also
essential. We need to maintain the vision
we need to achieve those outcomes, right?
But we also have this pressure about the budget and the
schedule and the the way the system of P threes and design

(28:17):
builds is built. It's you know, it's it's walking
that fine line. So those partnerships are
absolutely critical. That's kind of like macro level
how it would start answering your question.
But yeah, from there the the next mission statement about,
you know, our work itself and being driven by innovation is
already that we design innovative solutions to promote

(28:39):
positive and enduring social change.
We're really bring curiosity to each project.
We have excellent clinical designers who like this is their
passion, this is their drive. They've been known to take a day
off from the office, suit up in scrubs and go spend a day in the
life with clinicians to understand what's day-to-day
life like. What are your responsibilities?

(29:02):
Do any of them that any of them have degrees in medicine or or
not? So we, we, we actually have a
registered nurse who's not an architect on staff, although I
swear every day she's becoming more of an architect.
She's sketching in Bluebeam and things like that.
But we have people that have been just doing this for so long
that have, you know, done all kinds of well, have all kinds of

(29:23):
experience. But also, you know, we, we
really root a lot of our, all ofour work in, in evidence based
design principles. So EDAC certified professionals,
lean principles, things like that.
So we immerse ourselves in in understanding what it takes to
run a hospital, We understand what each department there to
do. We understand procedures, you

(29:45):
know, we get people, we have, wehave equipment experts that, you
know, came from procurement on the healthcare side or sorry, on
the health authority side that now, you know, work with us and
help us understand equipment solutions.
But so ultimately embedding these evidence based design
principles in the work to drive solutions.
These are tested and proven methods that, you know, we've

(30:05):
taken away from all of this, allof our study and all of our
experience. We can then work with our
clients and actually serve as educators for them and you know,
kind of meeting them at that intersection of design and
clinical best practices. But I guess I haven't really
answered your question. I I think that.
No, you started to. I've started to, I guess we see
ourselves as architects of care and we actually had like had a

(30:29):
marketing exercise recently. We did a rebrand and came up
with a tagline designed with care.
It's on our, you know, it's on our drawings and on our, on our
website and things like that. But you know, we really do live
by it. It, it's, we are architects of
care and that extends not just to healthcare, but you know,
education itself is a standard of care, justice and, and
corrections, compulsory care is part of a healing process.

(30:52):
And you know, there's lessons that you take from one sector in
the can really be applied to another.
So, so we really see care in allof our work.
But you know, back to the hospital itself, whether it's a
$50,000 project or it's a $500 million, you know, new build,
everything is designed with, with real care and attention to

(31:17):
to detail to all, in all aspectsof the building.
So. Are there specific areas that
you look at from like the engagement standpoint with be it
either a patient, the staff or could be family of the patient?
Like where you, you know that atthe entry, you know that it has
to be really warm and inviting. And like there's, there's the

(31:39):
requirement for, you know, this beautiful materiality that's
going to really resonate and connect with the inhabitants or
light. Like I'm, I'm just, I'm curious.
I'm curious to understand like that side of it more because
when you walk into an old hospital, you definitely don't
feel that When you walk into some hospitals that have now had
additions and revisions to the existing renovation, revisions,

(32:00):
renovations, you, you feel it. Absolutely.
So off the top, we recognize that the grand architectural
gesture of of a really importantcivic building is is of great
importance, but it has to make the space inviting and
unintimidating. People are often entering

(32:23):
facilities of care in, in this sort of distressed, either
physical and or mental state. Yeah.
And, and, you know, you're rushing to an emergency
department. You don't know where it is.
You're looking for those lettersin red.
And, and you know, it's you, maybe you're bringing a loved
one there. Maybe it's you yourself.
So the building itself, the architecture itself can be one

(32:45):
of the first steps in the healing process.
If it isn't successful, if it's like those old hospitals you're
talking about, or if it misses the mark, that initial
experience of the facility when you arrive, if it's a -1 it can
really have an adverse effect on, on the care itself.
So, you know, we, we recognize that there's incredible balance

(33:07):
needed with the big architectural, aesthetic and
thematic ideals, but also understanding who are the end
users, what are their, what is their journey and what are
there, what are the challenges presented to them?
And we got to, we've got to balance that this with the fine
grain minute details. There's the experience of the

(33:29):
patient or the family members. There's also the experience of
the staff. And if the staff aren't in
themselves in a good place to deliver care, then you know, the
care is going to suffer. So ergonomics, that care team
stations, shortening of the travel distance between, you
know, within a department, between stations or between
departments, things like that isabsolutely incredibly important.

(33:52):
The getting those fine details right.
And that's back to that kind of puzzle I was talking about with
putting together, putting together a hospital and, and
merging all of these these requirements and, and getting
things to complement one anotheras best as you can.
But then there's also kind of bigger picture things like, you
know, learning from the indigenous communities or

(34:13):
differently abled marginalized individuals.
We need to find ways that make buildings more inviting and to
be representative of these communities and, and really,
really be accessible. And so that first kind of
gesture that, you know, that grand gesture, the experience of
approaching and entering a site and entering a building, it's

(34:35):
gotta really remove barriers. And those are both physical and
mental barriers. And you've got to create a space
that really fosters connection, inclusivity and and support or
belonging so that all individuals feel like it's their
building for their like. Diffuse despair.
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah.

(34:57):
If if you can take it from A10 to A to A7, you know you're
you're taking the you're going in the right direction.
It's interesting, you know, as you said, you talk about the the
level of care that the staff canprovide based on the building.
And when you reference there theconcept of short commutes

(35:17):
between stations to to patient rooms and between departments,
like that concept. I think that anyone that's
listening to this right now has likely been in a hospital at
some stage. Whether you visited someone, you
were there yourself. You.
Yeah, I mean, I guess those are really the only two.
You're either visiting someone, you're with someone or you're

(35:38):
there yourself. Or maybe perhaps you're part of
the design team. But like if you're, if you've
been to a hospital, you can understand and appreciate in
some of those inefficient spaces, what it's like when you
have to walk through corridor tocorridor to get to a building to
get to the the next wing. And how exhaustive that can be

(36:00):
when you you might need a washroom.
And it can be, it can be right there, but it's just not there.
Well, and, and sometimes it is there and you just don't know
it's there. And you know, sometimes it's
about intuitive wayfinding and, and you know, the the actual
experience of that space is as well.
Yeah, everyone's experience thatso and and buildings are getting

(36:20):
bigger and bigger and so those distances naturally want to get
longer and longer so. How do you circumvent that?
Like what? It's really basing things in
evidence based principles. Each new hospital brings new
advancements and so being, you know, abreast of what's current,
what's being done, kind of breaking new barriers and things

(36:43):
like that. So you know, getting getting out
to conferences or, or attending webinars or continuing along
with EDAC training, things like that is really important for our
staff. We have a big presence most
years at the healthcare design conference in, in the US, the
European Health Design Congress in, in London.

(37:04):
And so, you know, this is all kind of part of making sure that
we were at the forefront of delivering this kind of care
through design. And what does it look like for
the practice kind of on a go forward basis?
Are there certain specific areasthat you are trying to emerge
into or is there certain elements of the practice that
you want to see progress in in adifferent way?

(37:28):
What it like? What does that look like?
Yeah, that's a great question. So that's another one.
I probably have a couple parts to answer.
The first I'd say is our, a lot of our work is through the, the
kind of design build and P3 markets.
And after these contract models themselves have really evolved

(37:49):
overtime and we see the projectscontinually growing in scope and
size and complexity and technology advancements mean we
have greater requirements for deliverables.
So you know, our teams are growing the, the buildings
themselves are growing. And then after, after we've done
dozens and dozens of these kindsof projects across Canada over

(38:11):
like 2 decades, we're, we're seeing a need for these projects
to take on new models. And one of the main emerging
models is that we're, that we'rereally excited about is Alliance
contracting. It's, it's a different,
fundamentally different type of contract.
It, it takes away a lot of risk transfer and it's based on a no

(38:33):
blame contract model that is based on shared collective risk
and responsibility that is within the framework of a fully
integrated team that makes up, is made-up by the owner of the
contractor and the architect. So everyone's at the same table.
I, I liken it to a round table, everyone being at a round table
together as opposed to across a rectangular table from one

(38:57):
another, kind of pushing, you know, blame or kind of disputing
cost or requirements. And really everything is based
on unanimous best for project principle based decision making.
It's got it's, there's an open book compensation model.
And so, you know, everyone is aware of what everyone,

(39:17):
everyone's financial stakes. There's pain sharing, gain share
that is completely linked to keyresult areas.
So if you know, we've set out the key result areas for a
project, these are what we want to achieve.
If we go above it, you get, you know, there's gain share.
If you go below it, there's painshare.
So, you know, the outcomes are clear and everyone is driven to

(39:37):
to deliver the same and success for one is has got to be success
for all. So so we're really excited about
it because, you know, fully understands and respects that
the private sector participants have commercial drivers, but
inherently we just want to do a great job.
And it's allowing us to find a way to do that and work

(39:58):
collaboratively to do it. It's at the heart of what we do
as as parking is that that focuson collaboration.
So we were successful in winningthe first, the First Healthcare
Alliance. Contract and that's the couch
and District Hospital in on Vancouver Island and I'm a
member of that Alliance management team.

(40:19):
We, we've had a lot of amazing lessons learned from that.
We've then won the second Alliance contract model hospital
in BC, which is Burnaby phase two.
There's now contracts or sorry, there's now RFQ's coming out in
Ontario for Alliance projects. And so we're seeing it as
something that's sort of growingthe same way that P threes kind

(40:41):
of emerged in the landscape like2020, 25 years ago.
We, we kind of see this as one, one of the new models that might
really take hold. And the reason why we love it so
much is in the experience after four years on Cowichan, it's
user engagement drives best for project outcomes and the
collaboration between the owner and the construction team and

(41:03):
the design team is evident and, and constant.
And I really do believe, I feel it myself.
And you know, I speak with people at the health authority
or at the contractor every day. Everyone feels good going to
work every day. It's, it feels like a better
environment. And interestingly enough, that's
one of the key result areas. We all benefit both
holistically, financially, if it's a good experience doing the

(41:26):
project. That's that's one of the key
result areas. So that's one of the main things
we're seeing the ability to if breaks barriers to deliver a
more sustainable project to build, to design a building that
is more inclusive to communities, to actually be able
to work with indigenous communities in a non structured
way, to get feedback from them and to really understand their

(41:49):
needs. And, and that's really been one
of my passions from it. So there's, there's just so much
you can take from kind of driving past that rigid contract
model that we've seen in the past and and kind of breaking it
more open and kind of removing alot of barriers.
As we're talking and looking up what the Alliance model is and
where it started and how it started and what it what.

(42:09):
It's about, it's fascinating. It's fascinating how it started.
It's actually interesting to me because I feel like it's very
much how we work without it being called the alliance model.
And in our, in our work as a, asa customer company, project
management company where you know, you essentially worked,
yes, to completely remove risk across the board by all parties

(42:32):
having a vested interest in as stakeholders and the success of
the project by being as open as you can possibly be.
And it's an easy thing to describe.
You can just say all of that andit's great.
But to get into the minutia of how to make things visible to
all the stakeholders is what really separates businesses from

(42:54):
each other when they come together and try to create that
environment, because it's reallyeasy to to not be successful at
that. Yeah, and contracts inform these
behaviors. So if the contracts weren't
written in a way that there's a corner for you to back into,
you're going to back into that corner.
But if the contract itself removes all corners, so

(43:15):
everyone's in it together, you're all stuck together,
you're going to come up with thesolutions.
And, you know, we've seen it, We're seeing it happen.
And you know, the couching projects now well under
construction, you know, the design starting on Burnaby.
And, and yeah, like I said, we're seeing you new projects
coming up both in BC and Ontario.
And I assume, you know, it'll probably follow in other

(43:35):
provinces shortly after that. But the model itself is
fascinating. I just want to point out like I
I learned some history about it over all of the kind of alliance
training I've done through this project.
And I think it was British Petroleum wanted to get oil out
of the North Sea and no contractor was willing to take
on the risk. So they said, all right, what if

(43:56):
we share some of the gain with you?
And you know, that kind of is the birth of this pain share,
gain share mentality. But from there you had to build
this structure and then it actually didn't really take off
in in the UK, but it ended up being hugely successful on, on I
guess horizontal infrastructure projects in Australia.
Yeah, tons of railways and yeah,totally.

(44:18):
And tons of railways, tons of Hwy. overpasses and highways and
things like that. And then emerging into, I think
like transit projects and thingslike that, but never before.
I'm just reading now for anyone that's sorry, I don't mean to
cut you off, but Hamilton, the Hamilton LRT project.

(44:39):
Yeah, right. And I mean, there's an amazing
story ABC's of 2021, there was these terrible windstorms and,
and, and the atmospheric river sweeping through the lower
mainland. And it actually washed out a
whole bunch of bridges on the Coca Halla Hwy. which is not the
Trans Canada, but it is the main, the main connection from

(44:59):
basically Calgary to Vancouver. And you were never going to go
with conventional contract modelto get some contractor on board,
designers on board to come up with designs and replace those
bridges and get that highway up and running in it period
speeding way. It was never going to happen.
So they said we got to do something different.
They brought in an alliance and they had it open in a couple

(45:21):
weeks with, you know, 2 lanes with temporary bridges.
That gave them the time to buildpermanent bridges on one side
and then twin, you know, tear down the temporary one and build
the new one. And it was back and running I
think in six or eight months completely.
Imagine if, if, if this was Asia, OK and how much quicker
that would happen. Yeah, absolutely.

(45:44):
Days. All the bureaucracy associated
with the approvals and all of a sudden boom, those bridges are
back up a couple of weeks. When they're shared interest,
that's where it all comes down to when the shared interest, it
happens. So anyway, we interestingly
enough, this is the first time we've seen what we consider a
vertical alliance. So you know, we've got a 10
story hospital with tons of departments and helipad and like

(46:06):
it's, it's for an entire community.
It's just got a lot of, of partners, a lot of interested
parties and stakeholders and, and rights holders.
And so an alliance is befitting because you've got to find a way
to merge all of those interests and you've got to you've got to
have confidence that you've hired a builder and a design

(46:26):
team that is truly interested insolving those and not trying to
win a project based enough. So the project has all of these
diverse interested parties. And what you really need is a
passionate, willing participant from a contractor side and from
the design team who's willing towork to best for project

(46:47):
outcomes and be less concerned about just winning a project by
a race to the lowest fee for thelowest, the lowest cost.
And, and it really because it, it eliminates that mechanism
basically as the main driver, itallows relationships to be at
the heart of it and confidence in the ability to work together

(47:08):
and work collaboratively and hasthat something we're very
excited about. Yeah.
So have you not yet completed a project in this format?
Have. You, no, everyone is is watching
Couch In and waiting with bated breath to see the outcomes.
But yeah, I can say from workingin it day-to-day that we're very
optimistic about it. And so how, what have you, what

(47:28):
have you found to be one of the intrinsic differences between
the active project that you haveright now in this format and you
know everything else that you don't have in this format?
What have you noticed at this stage of construction?
Do you feel, you feel like you're closer to budget?
Are you closer to schedule? Do you feel like you you have
had less changes through the course of the construction or am

(47:52):
I completely off in those three potential variations?
So because we it's open book, we're all monitoring the budget
very closely. In a traditional project, you
have a statement of requirements, this giant massive
document that effectively has written 8 or 10 years before the
project actually is going to be finished and you never going to

(48:14):
be able to predict what your actual needs are.
So you just kind of have all of these different requirements in
there as best as you know the client can imagine.
And then it's about delivering on the things that are written
there. So ultimately what we're doing
instead is building the requirements together and really
landing with in a collaborative way that the the client, the

(48:35):
health authority and the contractor what is best for
project. Do we really need to deliver
this standard here? Can we afford to to do something
different there and do more here?
And it's balancing those requirements and recognizing
that we're all trying to manage a budget and meet kind of best
for project decision making throughout.
So you're seeing way more clientinvolvement.

(48:57):
You're not getting caught up in sort of red tape and procedure
in the process, you're eliminating a lot of sort of
compliance back and forth where it's kind of statements of
compliance that then get argued over giant Excel files for weeks
and months on end. And instead we're just focusing
on doing the work and doing a good job of it and doing it

(49:19):
together. So we are everyone's thinking of
budget, everyone's thinking about comes together at the same
time. And it's I think it's bearing a
lot of fruit. One of my favorite anecdotes
from now in the construction phase is where do these pre
board walkthroughs before the drywall goes up in like the
emergency department, let's say.And we have the medical director
on the project coming on walks with us and he knows these

(49:42):
departments intimately. He's in the user groups and he's
in there with the contractor, with the site architects.
And we stumble upon a room and, you know, a wall is 400mm out of
place. It's going to make the shower
room too large and the locker room too small.
We're not going to be able to fit the lockers based on the
design. We're trying to figure out what

(50:04):
happened and how long is it going to take to correct this.
And we instead just put our heads together in that moment
and say, OK, what do we really need?
Is there any other solution? And within about 10 minutes, we
all agree, OK, we're going to dosome shifts here, some shifts
there. We might lose 1 locker, but we
had more than we needed. And we won't lose pace on
schedule. We won't divert, you know, a

(50:24):
subtrade from progressing elsewhere because they have come
back and it was like a true project best for Project
Alliance moment. And those aren't really possible
on a conventional project because you're never having the
owner, the builder and the design team there on in these
moments because we're doing it collaboratively.
So how frequently are you havingeither on-site or off-site

(50:49):
meetings with the associated parties of the Alliance to be
able to manage all the facets ofthis of?
The of the project, you mean howmany times a day?
All. It's all the time.
It's a fully integrated team, yeah.
So it's it's all day. Yeah, I met with the contractor
at 7:30 this morning. I have a call with the design

(51:10):
and construction meeting later today.
Yesterday I met with one of the working groups that focuses on
the key result areas and it's it's literally all parties that
are working together at all times and it's effectively an
organization of multiple organizations.
Right. So you'll have preset meetings
on a regular basis, daily basis with different parties.

(51:32):
And then do you have allotments for your ad block meetings that
were required based on what you just said?
You know, like there's a site condition that has to get
resolved and so everybody just says they're going to meet at
site tomorrow. Yeah, there's, there's kind of a
series of, of meetings, sidewalks and things like that
that are all scheduled. And then there's, yeah, there's
space to kind of resolve ad hoc as necessary and there's kind of

(51:54):
structure for coming together toquickly resolve an issue.
We have a change working group every Friday morning that, you
know, takes issues that would intheory have changed to the cost
or the the requirements and we assess what's the best way
forward with this. And, and that's been a really
successful mechanism. And is is all of this managed
online through e-mail or is it managed through like an ad

(52:16):
platform that individual partieshave connectivity to?
Like what does that look like? It's, it's a bit of a
combination. There's, you know, some like,
you know, shared SharePoint space or, you know, a lot of
kind of collaboration through teams and that sort of thing.
You know, there's also some organizational lines that are
naturally drawn by IT, firewallsand things like that.

(52:37):
But yeah, it's, it's collaborating as closely as we
possibly can. And I think that'll just get
better over time. Each pitch new alliance project
will have barriers removed. It's obviously, you know, I'm
pretty passionate credit becausethey just know what it what it's
like in the two different models.
And I'm excited about one for sure.
You did ask a question along time ago about where else we we

(52:59):
see things going and emergent. Yeah, yeah.
One of the other things, especially in our work in
healthcare that we are really eager about is how we can learn
and push for a more sustainable outcome and building and like
hospitals and especially huge hospital campuses.
Like it's just, it's so easy to say this is an incredibly

(53:21):
important part of our community and it takes a ton of energy and
that's just what it is. But we have to do better.
They have to, you know, give up on that excuse and say, what can
we do to make this a place of generation of, of energy or, you
know, regeneration of ecosystemsand really focus on how

(53:41):
hospitals can give healing outcomes or positive outcomes to
the community around it in more ways than just the healthcare
itself. So, you know, we're, there's no
answer. There's you know, we've heard,
there's one Passive House hospital we've heard about in
Germany, but we're taking steps here in North America,
especially on a couple of our projects, for instance, Western

(54:02):
Memorial in Corner Brook, NL. That was I believe the full
first fully electric hospital inCanada.
Electric, yeah, fully electric. So not relying on any kind of
like gas fired boilers or anything.
And geothermal is like there's amassive football field size
layout of geothermal piping and that's the primary heating and
cooling source. Couch in itself will be the next

(54:24):
fully electric hospital. So these are among the 1st in
all of North America pushing boundaries with Houchin on on
net 0 carbon design reduction ingreenhouse gas emissions.
Hold on, hold on, hold on all Electric hospital.
I just, I'm going to say it again for everyone that is
listening to this, just let thatsink in for a second.
I'm going to say it one more time.

(54:44):
It's an all electric hospital, OK.
Like, thank you for pointing it.Yeah, thank you for for dwelling
on that point. I, I don't think it's a small
coincidence that the two locations are places that rely
heavily on hydroelectric power. So, you know, dams and these are
places with, you know, abundanceof, of hydroelectric energy.
It will be more challenging, I'msure.

(55:04):
Another. Draw on that type of resource
and to have an appetite for it because there's a lot of
creative solutions you have to come up with because gas is just
so easy. To and I'll say it was not a
requirement of the projects especially well, I I don't know
about corner brick, but on couchand it was not a requirement in
our our consultant team came forward and said what if we did

(55:27):
this and the alliance allowed? Would you say it was exposed and
and and the stakeholder said yes?
Yeah, yeah, we said is it, is itreasonable within budget because
it is definitely something we would strive to do.
So, so you said it's it's geothermal for heating?
That was the corner. Brook project.
Sorry, I'm combining them. So how can I ask like what is

(55:48):
that? What?
How are you structuring like? I assume you must have massive
banks of batteries for and generators for backup power
Should yeah outage. And the caveat is generators
that are non electric, they're they're natural gas.
Yeah, yeah. But yeah, the, the building
daily functions are, are fully electric.

(56:09):
There's, you know, big photovoltaic array and then it's
it's drawing on the grid, which is largely, like I said, large
hydroelectric. Or at all or no?
Is it just? Did it not pay in this scenario?
Oh, sorry, yeah, the the there'sa very large solar photovoltaic
array. OHS, sorry, sorry, sorry.
Yeah. OK, on the parts of the roof
that weren't impacted by the kind of flight patterns of the

(56:32):
of the heliport. On top of that, designing for
2050 and, and in some cases 2080climate data, like many projects
actually just ask you for today's climate scenario.
And so you know, forward thinking saying, you know what,
tomorrow's coming fast so let's design like it's coming.
It's such a. Stupid idea to say I'm sorry.

(56:52):
Like what? It was so simpleton of a word,
like at the same time, how can you ask about the climate of
today when the projects generally not gonna finish or
could be 5 to 10 years? Yeah, it's, it's a very, very
fair point. So that's that's changing.
That's something that is now becoming more common.
There's something great in BC, this salmon safe certification,

(57:13):
meaning that it the water on site, you know, it's a large
site, it collects a lot of water.
It's a slope site especially so it's it's shedding a lot of
water into the watershed and thekind of the network of streams
and creeks and rivers. The Cowichan River itself is the
lifeblood of the traditional community, the, the indigenous
community, the couch in peoples and the, the diverse network of,

(57:37):
of nations that are all around it.
And they still fish daily. There are smokehouses throughout
the region and people are constantly, you know, catching
salmon, smoking them and preserving them for the winter.
It's a it's a daily staple and it's seen as kind of like a life
giving staple, right. So it's incredibly important to

(57:57):
the indigenous community to knowthat the project itself is
treating water so that it has noadverse effect.
The Sandman population downstream.
So this is this is an organization in in the Pacific
Northwest that is now gaining a lot of traction and getting a
lot more projects that are salmon surf SATA salmon safe
certified. So essentially it's it's an
organization within the indigenous community that helps

(58:19):
to certify that the. Sorry, yes, all of that, except
it's not within the Indigenous. Community, it's not.
It's just in the general community.
But does the indigenous community within with do they
have to certify anything? Where?
No. OK.
No, it's, it's independent organization that is, that is
doing it with professionals, kind of a network of

(58:39):
professionals throughout the region that that are kind of
trained in it and able to certify.
Those are those are key things kind of driving.
And then for me, like I would love to know how can water
collection be given back into this the the civic system or
electricity be provided back to grids?
Like I would love to know how wecan start to push this or

(59:00):
another really interesting one is food.
You've been to hospitals in the you've ever had to eat.
Topic. Yeah, if you've ever had to eat
the food, it it's probably not making you all that much better.
It's based on budgets and thingslike that.
And to be able to drive better health outcomes through food and
even to grow food on the site, you know, you're seeing emerging

(59:21):
trends within that area. There's just so much more that
can kind of be a fully holistic approach to sustainable
communities and sustainable hospitals.
That I mean, well, you just describe there is probably one
of the most interesting things Icould think of.
The fact that you could that there's the contemplation of
could we house areas within the hospital to be able to to grow

(59:46):
our own food. Yeah, absolutely.
It's it's exciting and it's. Laughing.
I'm like, come on. Like really?
Yeah, I guess, you know, we've been hearing murmurs of it in
the industry. Community.
Yeah, I'd love to see it becoming, you know, I'd love to
see a really successful version of it.
And there are a couple interesting projects in Europe
especially, but I'd love to see it become more of a standard.

(01:00:09):
There's just a lot there. And then the other one is these
are huge buildings. They're getting bigger and
bigger. Sometimes you're seeing small
hospitals closed in favor of onegiant hospital.
And like, you know, we're doing.The Trillium project and the
the, the Ottawa Hospital, these are the biggest healthcare
projects I think in Canadian history.
And it's, it's really amalgamating smaller facilities.
But there is a future, I think where we see it less of that and

(01:00:32):
more decentralization, more healthcare in the home and
figuring out ways to bring care closer.
Kind of like 15 minutes cities. Yeah, exactly.
And you know, there's a lot of exploration into that.
And we're actually going to be focusing some of our kind of
research over the coming years into developing more ideas

(01:00:54):
around that. So, yeah, those are some of the
things we're kind of excited about and it's really early
days, I think. Go say it again.
All electric. Fully electric.
Hospitals, yeah, I mean, it, it we did present, present at the
European Healthcare Design Congress in this past summer.
And there was a lot of attentionto the fact that we were now

(01:01:16):
onto a second fully electric hospital.
And it it's, it's pretty significant on the world stage.
I mean we're literally about representing numbers to client
on their home in a couple of days, which will have been
months prior to when we're now listening to this, which is
funny future coming up in the future, but now when you listen

(01:01:39):
to this in the past. Back to the future, the
DeLorean. And we're talking about the idea
of of, you know, an all electrichome and eliminating any gas
requirements as much as we can. More and more people are looking
at that. So, you know, it's a beautiful
thing to know that that can be done on on the large scale.
And it should deserve recognition.

(01:01:59):
And it should be the topic of discussions at conferences.
It it should. Be a bit of a sidebar there.
The City of Vancouver had actually passed the bylaw that
eliminated gas, natural gas fromnew build homes.
And then the current mayor sought to reverse that.
And the design industry and the building industry really push

(01:02:21):
back against it. And, you know, parking was one
of the many companies that signed a letter saying that we,
you know, we did not stand by this.
And council ended up not passingthat that motion, which, you
know, it's great to see that we're we're standing up for a
sustainable. Yeah.
The collective is standing up for sustainable outcomes and not
focusing on kind of economic drivers.

(01:02:43):
Yeah, it's it's. Beautiful.
Shane, I'm going to say it now. So they like thank you so much.
I appreciate the fact that that there was a connection that was
made for us and and that you were able to take the time to do
this in the morning. The information you've just
provided is, is I find I have found so interesting.
Clearly, I'm like haven't stopped interrupting you

(01:03:03):
throughout this entire discussion.
Thank you. Thank you for the candor, Thank
you for the time. Thank you for for being such a
great sport and being open to getting on this call and not
knowing exactly where we would end up.
But I'm happy with where we did because I do think that it
sounds, it sounds to me like you, you're on the cutting edge
of what healthcare should be looking like.

(01:03:23):
And I look forward to, to maintaining contact and, and
learning more about what you do and what you're doing in the
future because I will one day end up in a hospital and I want
to know that. It's inevitability.
I want I want to know what's happening on the back end of it
when it's getting built. Yeah, absolutely.
Well, thank you. Thank you, Jonathan.
It's it's a real pleasure to chat.

(01:03:44):
And you know, we really just scratched the surface on the
work that we're doing. There's there's a lot of really
exciting stuff into the other kind of architectures of care.
And that, you know, I'm sure that you'd have a great
conversation with some of our other members of our parking
team about some of the things happening in corrections or, or
that kind of thing, mental health and and things like that

(01:04:05):
because there's there's just a lot, a lot there.
But I really appreciate the conversation.
It's it's been really enjoyable and and thanks so much for your.
Time, of course, I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna close with this
and say that I I hope that in the next within the next year or
so, I'm I'm out in mountain BC. So I'd like to connect.
I'd like if possible, it goes gosee one of these projects.

(01:04:28):
I would. It would be.
It'd be great. Yeah, absolutely.
That would be a delight. Thanks.
Thank you.