September 25, 2025 • 45 mins
Jim Estill of Danby Appliances is a Canadian technology entrepreneur, executive, and philanthropist. Jim started a computer distribution business from the trunk of his car while in university. He turned that modest business into a company doing $350,000,000 in sales before selling to SYNNEX in 2004. He then became CEO of SYNNEX Canada and grew sales from $800,000,000 to $2 Billion over five years. Jim is active on various boards and was a founding board member of Research in Motion/Blackberry, before the company went public.
In 2016 & 2017 Jim made the news Opens in new windowfor his sponsorship efforts to settle 58 refugee families. The Financial Times, Guardian, and Life all covered his story. You can follow Jim at JimEstill.com Opens in new window, which documents his philosophies on leadership and time management.
Jim was awarded the Order of Ontario, the provinces highest honour, in 2017. He is also a multiple recipient of the Ernst & Young Entrepreneur of the Year Award.
Get a look Behind the Business in Waterloo Region with Ian McLean, President & CEO of the Greater Kitchener Waterloo Chamber of Commerce.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ian McLean (00:00):
Welcome to another episode of Behind the Business,
presented by Gore Mutual.
I'm your host, Ian McLean,President and CEO of the Greater
Kitchen Waterloo Chamber ofCommerce.
This podcast is recorded on thetraditional territory of the
neutral Anishinabe andHaudenosaunee peoples.
Each week I sit down for candidconversations where we go
beyond the boardroom and behindthe business to uncover the real
(00:21):
stories of Waterloo Region'sbusiness community.
Today's guest is Jim Estill,entrepreneur, innovator,
community builder, and the CEOof Danby Appliances.
Jim has a long track record ofturning bold ideas into thriving
(00:45):
businesses, but his story isn'tjust about business success,
it's about impact.
He sponsored over 90 refugeefamilies in Guelph, created an
entrepreneurial culture atDanby, and lives by the belief
that leaders have aresponsibility to their
communities and to the planet.
In our conversation, Jim speaksabout his journey as a serial
entrepreneur, the lessonslearned along the way, his
(01:06):
unconventional but effectivemonk mode experiences, and what
he sees as the future ofbusiness innovation in Canada.
Join me in this episode as wego behind the business with Jim
Estill of Danby Appliances.
Well, we're excited to have youhere today, Jim.
I want to thank you uh forjoining us in our new podcast
studio.
You're our first guest for inthis space, so thank you for
(01:29):
joining us and uh and and uh andcoming down to to be and share
your story with our with our uhlisteners.
Well, thanks for having me.
And listen, you know, we'veknown each other for a lot of
years, and and I've followedyour career, and you it covers
the gambit of of uh of a lot ofthings.
One of the one of thereferences uh that others make
(01:49):
of you is you've been called anunstoppable entrepreneur.
And so let's rewind a littlebit uh to you know from where
you are today, but let's rewindto the $2 billion company you
started as a as a student at theUniversity of Waterloo.
Uh share the story of thatbusiness and and what initially
(02:10):
sparked your interest in inentrepreneurship.
Because not everyone's suitedfor it.
Some people are.
You are obviously one of them.
Tell that story.
Jim Estill (02:18):
So I was in university, fourth year systems
design, and I wanted to designcircuit boards and I needed a
computer.
And back in that era, computerswere very expensive.
But I found I could get abetter deal if I bought two of
them.
So I bought two and I sold one,and then someone else wanted
one, so I bought one, and thensomeone wanted a printer,
someone wanted a disk drive.
We needed to upgrade thememory.
(02:39):
And so pretty soon I'm buyingand selling computer hardware,
software, peripherals, andthat's the business that grew
ultimately.
Um, partly I was in the rightplace at the right time because
computers were just in theirinfancy.
This was before everyone had acomputer.
Matter of fact, the questionwould be well, do you have a
computer?
(02:59):
Oh, well, okay, then I won'ttalk to you.
Now, like, how many computersdo you have?
Like it, it's it's kind oflike, well, you have a
television, you don't needanother television.
Yes, you do.
Um my interest inentrepreneurism actually started
younger than that.
I was um a camp counselor, andI, but the camp I worked at was
(03:19):
only open for a month, and so Ineeded a job for the other
month, and no one would hireanyone for a month.
And my dad had me painting afence, and one of the neighbors
said, Oh, could you paintsomething for me?
And then I painted that, then Iwent and started Jim's
painting.
So when I was in high school, Ihad this taste of having my own
business, riding around on mybicycle, quoting jobs.
(03:42):
I hired my brothers, I hired myfriends.
So I had a college pro painterbusiness before college pro was
a thing.
And uh and that was just thetaste of entrepreneurship,
entrepreneurship that I could doit on my own.
Wow.
Um in the company that youbuilt, because I'm I'm
interested, but people start abusiness.
(04:03):
I mean, there's lots of thingsthat go into that in every it
eventually grew to being a largecompany.
When you first got started, howdid you finance it?
Like that's one of the thingspeople start a business, they
where's the capital to even getstarted to get your two
computers, and then and thenyou, you know, obviously if
you're selling those things, youneed inventory, you you have
(04:23):
there's a variety of things.
Talk a little bit about some ofsome of those things to get
started because a lot of ourmembers would be new businesses
starting their own, you know, asecond career or or or vocation
that they that they're reallyinterested in.
There must have been somethings in there that you had to,
you know, some of those hurdlesthat you had to navigate.
So I did what manyentrepreneurs do today and went
(04:45):
out and approached people andtried to raise money and say,
uh, Ian, will you invest in mybusiness?
And the answer from everybodywas no.
You have no experience.
You're a kid, we don't trustyou, we don't think you'll be
successful.
So, but that actually helped mebecause it created a frugality.
And uh, okay, I'm not going toum have be able to buy this
(05:06):
trade show booth.
I'm going to make the tradeshow booth.
I'm going to take the kitchentable and put a drop cloth over
it and uh and and whatnot.
So I didn't have money, whichlimited my growth in the early
days, but that wasn't badbecause I wasn't uh it gave me
time to learn how to run abusiness.
So I did 450,000 the firstyear, then a million and 79,000,
(05:30):
then 2.6 million, then 4.6million, then 5.6 million, then
10 million, then 20 million, 1million.
So I I I just grew um where ifI jumped straight into doing $50
million, I probably didn't knowhow to run it.
And I would have not known howto manage people or whatnot.
As far as cash goes, I learnedhow to collect money from people
(05:54):
before they got their product.
And as they got delivery, Ilearned how to pay people later.
Yeah.
And uh so largely it was uhmanaging your cash flow, right?
Ian McLean (06:07):
Money in and then stretching out your payables and
exactly.
Jim Estill (06:10):
And um being in the computer business and inventory,
because I had to go lean oninventory, that turned out to be
a genius thing becausetechnology, if I said, Oh, I've
got this uh computer, and by theway, it's been in inventory for
three years, you're gonna say,well, that's not worth anything.
And so um turning yourinventory fast, um, I figure in
(06:32):
the technology business,inventory can devalue like 4%
per month.
Like it's it's hugedevaluation.
So um it served me well that Iactually couldn't have built a
huge warehouse and filled itwith inventory.
Ian McLean (06:46):
The Behind the Business Podcast is made
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(07:15):
So let's switch a little bit.
You you know, you've you havementored and invested in many
companies along the way.
So from you, though that wasyour you know, seminal kind of
learning, learning stage.
But I mean, when I when I andyou're now running Danby and
doing very successful there, butI when I first heard your name,
it was in the tech space.
You were a tech guy.
(07:36):
Um you've mentored and investedin many companies, including
you're a founding board memberof Blackberry.
I remember those early days.
Uh, I had every BlackBerry fromthe time it was uh pager all
the way through, but I rememberthose those early days.
Based on your experience, whatare the some of the common
traits uh or approaches do yousee in leaders and companies
(07:59):
that succeed in you know andinnovate in in such a fast-paced
tech-driven environment here inWaterdo Region?
Because that that's that wasone of the things.
Things were once once the techUFW and all of those the the
BlackBerry era started, therewere a ton of companies.
Things were changing reallyfast.
(08:19):
It really got to warp speed.
What are some of those thosecommon traits and approaches for
in that fast-paced uhenvironment?
Jim Estill (08:27):
Well, it it's strange combinations of
persistence and knowing when tolet go and knowing when to
change direction.
So the pivot is a fundamental.
I I I mean, I even pivoted inmy business, my my first
business.
I wanted to design circuitboards.
That was what I wanted to do.
But I pivoted to buying andselling computer products
because that's what becameprofitable, and that is what
(08:49):
became the the big business.
So I I noticed one successcharacteristic is the pivot, the
ability or the willingness tolet go, but at the same time,
the persistence and the speedand the sense of urgency.
Sense of urgency absolutelywins.
Ian McLean (09:06):
Yeah, you know, it it's uh it's fascinating in this
community um that there thatthere is that we've we've been
through a bunch of different uhyou know traditional businesses
like farming and insurance andsort of manufacturing, and then
we've gotten into you know highfinance, if you will, and and
(09:27):
and technology.
And and there are some of thosecommon traits that go through
to be successful in business.
So appreciate that.
Listen, 2017, and this is thisis the pivot point when I when
you know for for some who willknow you more for Danby than
they would for your for yourtech career, but you joined
Danby as the CEO.
Um, and and you know, I thinkit was probably seen as those
(09:51):
were the days when manufacturingwas on a was on a low rev.
Um I mean, everythingeverything was um whether it was
in car manufacturing or uhassembly and and and um and auto
parts, there was there was alot of disruption in those days.
Um and Danby was, and or atleast manufacturing in North
(10:12):
America was probably seen asbeing um an established brand,
but in you know, sort of pastits prime.
Um, how did you breathe newlife into Danby as a comp as a
70-year-old company in anenvironment where manufacturing
was was a tough place to be inNorth America.
So there was a lot of thingsthat were that were being
(10:33):
manufactured or assembled in inother parts of the world, Asia
uh amongst them.
Jim Estill (10:38):
And at that time, and even now, Danby has a lot of
products assembled in Asia andMexico and uh Bangladesh and
Malaysia and wherever.
So um partly what what I triedto do in is to impart the sense
of urgency and the speed in asmokestack business.
So just take the technologyspeed, and uh so when I got into
(11:02):
it, the the inventory examplewas an example.
You go in and they say, Ohyeah, we've got nine months of
inventory.
What do you mean you have ninemonths of inventory?
We need to turn this every 30days normally, or else it's
gonna be obsolete.
They oh no, it's not obsolete.
Your air conditioner is thesame last year as it was the
year before, as it was the yearbefore.
Um and then uh I have alwaysbeen looking, I always look at
(11:22):
niches.
What are the areas that we cando well in?
Um, part of the key in businessis actually to pick the right
size business opportunity forthe right person.
So you're gonna have anentrepreneur listening to this
that says, oh, AI is gonna bebig.
Great, you're gonna be the nextAI.
Uh, and you're gonna be whatGoogle and Microsoft and
whatever.
Well, really, is that it?
(11:43):
But maybe you can be AI fordentists, doing implants,
especially uh in the uppermouth.
I'm I'm just so so what I did,what we do at Danby is we have a
few niches, and it's multipleniches that we uh go after.
I always look for competitiveadvantage, I always look for
utilization.
(12:04):
How can we utilize our um ourwhat we have better?
Um, Danby has a reasonablylarge air conditioner, window,
and a portable air conditionerbusiness.
And uh so that of course issummer weighted.
That's why we bought ArcticSnowplow, which is winter
weight.
Yeah.
And so that means that when onecompany doesn't need the
(12:25):
resource, the others can uh usethe resource.
But business is a matter oftiny tweaks as opposed to a
major, you know, ripping thingsout or changing, in my
experience.
Ian McLean (12:39):
You you talked about uh turnover of product and how
much you have so that you canyou can be responsive to your
customer when they need it, butyou're not sitting on too much
because extra product is justmoney sitting on the shelf and
it's not being put to good use.
Um as as you in in yourexperience with Damby, just in
time delivery is a thing,certainly in the auto space of
(13:01):
you know, getting parts that youneed for assembly in in
different plants.
Is that part of the model thatthat every manufacturer has to
have now?
Is is that dance or that thatchoreography of getting what you
need to do your part of thebusiness to get the finished
product?
I mean, or or is that unique tolarger businesses?
Jim Estill (13:18):
So uh it it was everything was heading to just
in time.
Then COVID happened.
Right.
And what happened in COVID isall of a sudden you couldn't get
the parts.
Right.
And all of a sudden the supplychain was broken.
Then all of a sudden said, Iwish I had 60 days of parts
sitting here because then I'd beable to ship something.
So um the supply chain changedfrom just in time.
(13:39):
The other thing, as far asniche goes and Danby, one of the
niches that we decided was wewanted to have some inventory.
Um, because what happens islarge companies like Home Depot,
they will order um containersfrom China.
But then all of a sudden theyfind out, oh, we're out of
freezers.
Well, for in COVID, they're outof freezers.
Hey, well, we've got themsitting in our warehouse.
(14:01):
So the local um having localwarehouses in North America with
product, it became a little bitof a a niche.
That said, you've got to watchyour working capital, got to
watch your uh storage costmoney.
Ian McLean (14:15):
So is there actually, I mean, that's an
interesting question becauseCOVID did it it it it it really
exposed cracks, whether it's inthe social side of our
communities, whether it was inbusiness of of some of the
things that that were needed tobe rebalanced.
It is there a new and you justtouched on it, is there a new
sort of post-COVID uhequilibrium there about saying
(14:38):
it's not just in time, but it'salso not having you know huge
amounts of inventory?
How do you is there a newbalance that businesses have
have had to strike?
Jim Estill (14:48):
I think that that there is definitely a new
balance relative to uh um havinginventory, but it the other
part is it's more subtle thanthat.
It's okay, what are thecritical parts that you're not
gonna be able to get?
What are the the few parts?
Um and uh I mean we got good atsubstitute selling.
So you you want a uh a 10 cubicfoot fridge.
(15:08):
Oh, great.
Well, that means uh you couldtake a nine cubic foot because
we've got those in in stock.
Um, the the current tariff inthe United States is creating a
um an opportunity to move anyslow-moving inventory because uh
maybe the black freezer didn'tsell well.
Well, you want a freezer, well,you can buy a black freezer and
it doesn't have the highertariff on it.
(15:30):
Uh um so uh, but thingsdefinitely changed, and I think
businesses realized they neededalso multiple sources.
So uh pre-COVID, you'd in manycases you'd sort of solidify
your buying clout and say, I'lltake a million of these or five
million of these pieces and giveme the lowest price for five
(15:50):
million.
Now it's kind of okay, we'llwe'll take you can have four
million, but I'm gonna buy amillion from somebody else just
because you gotta have just incase.
Ian McLean (15:58):
Yeah.
Um we we talked about this atour Innovation Core or event uh
the other day.
Um, supply chains are are, Imean, I think there is this
notion, and we've we've heardfrom from uh um from government
we we can't be as reliant on theUS.
Uh and not the the trade andtariffs thing has upset the
entire global because it'sthere's tariffs on everyone and
(16:20):
how and how it intersects withthe US, still the the world's
largest economy.
Um is there an opportunity inCanada?
I think we saw this in COVID,coming back to COVID.
It's like, well, we didn't havemasks, we didn't have rubber
gloves, we didn't have uh wedidn't have a lot of the things
that we needed on the medicalside because all of that was
(16:42):
sourced from Asia or otherplaces.
We found out that Canadianindustry in a matter of weeks
pivoted and started like EclipseAutomation started making
masks, and there was lots ofpeople that that the innovative
um um entrepreneurial spiritstruck and everyone said we got
we got to deal with this.
There is there an opportunityfor there to be more homegrown
(17:05):
uh Canadian um supply chain thatthat that uh that serves
businesses like Danby?
Jim Estill (17:12):
So in COVID, actually, Danby did did a micro
pivot and we made 10,000ventilators.
I don't know whether youremember.
Ian McLean (17:20):
Oh yes, I do I do remember that.
I think we talked about that onthe radio show or something,
yeah.
Jim Estill (17:24):
Yeah, so we made 10,000 ventilators, which was a
pivot because uh ventilator'snot that dissimilar to making a
wine cooler, it's smaller andwhatnot.
But I was worried I was gonnahave to lay off all my staff,
and I was worried I was gonnanot be in business because
that's what everyone thought atthat time.
But is there more opportunity?
There is more opportunity forCanadian made, but what people
(17:45):
have to understand is volume isstill tough to break.
Ian McLean (17:50):
Yeah.
Jim Estill (17:51):
So if you were to take an example of freezers, 10
times as many freezers arebought in the States as they are
in Canada.
And the molds and tools anddyes to make a freezer might be
a couple million dollars.
So if you take that and divideit amongst uh, you know, 100,000
pieces, well, that's $20 moreper freezer.
You do it to 10,000 pieces,it's $200 more.
(18:14):
So there is this issue witheconomy of scale, which is tough
to um do.
At the same time, there's highpsychology in the public to buy
Canadian.
Yeah.
And so there's an advantagethere.
Um, and the other thing onthat, there's sort of it's a
variation of buy Canadian.
(18:34):
Like um, if you're buying ascrewdriver, you better buy it
from Canadian Tire, which isCanadian retail, even though
it's made in China, yeah.
Or buy it from Home Depot, evenmade in China, yeah, China.
But uh um and the fact is everyproduct you buy, even if it's
made in Canada, probablyundoubtedly has input.
Where'd the screws come from?
Where'd the the parts comefrom?
(18:55):
So made in Canada is nevernever a hundred percent made in
Canada.
Ian McLean (18:59):
Yeah, it's uh fair fair point.
Uh I think there's almost partof that, if I if I look at it,
even in the grocery stores, yougo, I'll buy blueberries because
I want blueberries, but I'm notbuying American blueberries.
I'll buy, you know, if I canfind Canadian, that's the number
one, but I'll buy them fromMexico or I'll buy them from
wherever else they're I see onthe store shelves.
(19:19):
I think there's some of that.
It's just um Canadians areangry about what the US has
done.
It was interesting to hear thethe American side of why that
was.
But anyway, that's a separateconversation um um uh for for
another time because we willhave you back on I love these
conversations with you.
Look, um I'm I I I wasthinking, what's the boldest
(19:43):
decision you've ever made thatreally changed the trajectory of
your journey?
Like, was it leaving sort oftech and going to Danby or
what's what's the boldest thingyou've done either in business
or in your career?
Jim Estill (19:56):
Well, the boldest decision was uh when I started
my business in university.
Yeah.
Because even though I startedever so gee, you're successful
the first couple of years,you're making no money.
Yeah.
I could have got a job at TimHortons and made more money.
That's how um so that was theboldest, but it was a great time
to start because I had nooverhead.
(20:16):
Like I wasn't used to uh anice, you know, I don't know in
the car or anything.
You know, it's like I've got acar.
Well, that means I need to getsomeone to boost me to start it.
Isn't that how you start a car?
Ian McLean (20:29):
Yeah.
Okay.
Um we often hear about successstories, and I think there's um
um I think every small businessowner, every entrepreneur knows
that uh uh creativity and andthe innovation um comes with
that comes a fair number ofeither mistakes or or learning
(20:53):
lessons if you want to put thepositive spin on that.
Um and I think this is onething I've been elected office
before.
We work a lot with withgovernment and on policy, and
there's this fear in ingovernment of saying we we gotta
work go slow because we can'tmake mistakes.
Business makes mistakes, andbusiness owners, corporations,
(21:14):
we they make mistakes all thetime, but they learn from them.
What role have have thosefailures or the or the missteps
played in um in your career inin terms of how you adapt when
you make a mistake or you youmake the wrong decision and have
to pivot?
Jim Estill (21:31):
So uh I believe in having a culture of failure,
meaning you don't zap people forfailing.
And one of my expressions isfail off and fail fast, fail
cheap.
So the but the key is you needto do all three.
So the companies that faildon't forget to fail cheap.
So we I undoubtedly we'reintroducing products next month.
(21:52):
One of them is going to fail,but it's fail off and fail fast,
fail cheap.
So, how can we make it so it'sa cheap failure?
Well, we'll sell the thing atcost, we'll we'll sell it at a
10%.
Like sell we'll sell throughthe failures.
The other thing I say to peopleand entrepreneurs is having a
failure does not make you afailure.
(22:12):
And people remember the thegood stuff.
They don't rem like you, youtalked about Blackberry.
So Jim's a genius.
He did Blackberry.
I did 150 companies, 25 of themexited.
So there was, you know, well.caand myovision and clear path
and um, you know, a bunch ofsuccessful ones, but a hundred
(22:34):
of them went bankrupt.
And so no, you're not sayingthat, hey Jim, you invest in
this company that went bankrupt.
Yeah, I did.
Um it's but it's fail off andfail fast, fail cheap.
Um, and uh I always find thatyou you you don't put enough in
the winners uh that you investin, and I put too much in the
losers.
Um but partly as anentrepreneur you need to um move
(22:58):
forward, shake it off and notdwell on any stuck on it, yeah.
And the same thing can happenactually on successes.
So sometimes you'll see an uhOlympic athlete and they are
living their life because theygot a gold in the Olympics uh 28
years ago.
And is that, you know, youcan't totally live on past glory
(23:19):
either.
Ian McLean (23:20):
Yeah.
Well, that's it, that'sinteresting.
Um recently, and I I found thisinteresting getting ready for
this.
You spent three weeks in thewoods for what you refer to as
uh in monk mode.
Uh, you completely disconnectedfrom technology and
electricity, living completelyoff the grid, which is uh harder
(23:41):
than one might might imagine, Isuspect.
What did you gain from thatexperience and how does it shape
your business thinking?
And and I'm not sure if you dothis often, but you certainly
did it recently.
What how did that affect yourbusiness thinking uh when you
came back from being totally offthe grid?
Jim Estill (24:00):
So I try to do it every year.
Ian McLean (24:01):
You do it every year.
Jim Estill (24:02):
Well, so I do it uh repeatedly.
Um there's a few things.
I am a digital addict.
So you weren't here when I gothere, and well, that's okay.
I'll just check and see anemail or text, and and so I'm a
digital addict.
I will go work on a computer athome and then or at the office
and then drive home and check mymy my email and then my news
(24:23):
and my stock prices and um andwhatnot.
So you I I'm a digital addict.
I went to uh I go to a placewhere there is no internet
service.
So I even if I want to, I can'tcheck my phone.
Um so being disconnected itslows me down.
It gives me an appreciation forthe little things.
(24:45):
Like um making uh making tea isone example I use.
Like to make tea, you have togo take the water out of the
lake, you have to put it througha filter because it's not clean
to drink, you have to go findsome wood, cut it up, make a
fire, uh, right, and half anhour later, maybe you'll have
tea 45 minutes later.
So everything's slow,everything's physical.
(25:07):
So I like the physical.
Um from a business point ofview, I I have a journal and I
come back with a lot of ideas.
But I think time and and Yeah,and I but I at the same time I
have to be careful.
I don't want to come back andthen t tell you have the team,
here's my eighty-one ideas thatall need to be done on Monday.
(25:27):
But it's very helpful for myteam because it means my
business has to be able to runwithout me.
And I believe in businessthat's strong businesses can't
be me making all the decisionsand waiting for me to make that.
So um people in the companythey rise up, they start making
(25:50):
decisions, they start doingthings.
So when I come back, um Iactually have a little bit more
time because they found out oh,they could deal with this.
So that's um that's healthy,but it's it's just healthy for
me.
Like I my optimism goes up andI I it's healthy.
Ian McLean (26:06):
I well and I I probably fall into the same
category.
I'm always checking emails andand what's next.
I think one of the things thatprobably would do some good for
folks out there that arelistening is if you're
disconnected, you're also notseeing all the negative.
So I think you can come backand say, Oh, here's some new
ideas and come up with, as yousay, that optimism.
(26:29):
Uh, because when you do stayconnected electronically, email,
social media, news, there's notmuch of it that's particularly
positive.
So so it it it does sap thatthat sort of uh excitement for
what what could be uh whenyou're when you're seeing the
reality of the day.
Jim Estill (26:47):
That's right.
I I am a news junkie for sure.
It's actually one of the thingsI like about this type of show
is uh it it's more focused onthe positive, yeah.
Because people actually clickon the negative because they
want to hear about the the massshooting and the earthquake and
the um disasters.
They don't want to hear asmuch.
(27:08):
And everything's an echochamber, right?
So once you click on once, youyou you get you get it from one
news source, then another, thenanother.
Ian McLean (27:15):
Well, we'll have to have you on business to
business, uh, because that'swhat we try and do on that show
on a weekly basis, is try andtell some more positive stories
about successes in business andhow it's helping the community.
Uh, because there's not enoughof that uh in in media as a
whole.
Listen, one of the things thatI've I've followed your career,
I've admired your career, um isis but one of the things I do um
(27:37):
admire is your belief in doingthe right thing as a person, but
also as a company.
And um, you know, and and itfor the community and for the
world.
And and of course, um I've beeninvolved with the immigration
partnership of Waterloo Regionaround getting newcomers,
getting them settled, and asense of belonging and finding
(27:59):
work uh for the 15 years I'vebeen at the chamber because it's
important.
It's it's our it's it's thetalent force of of of our future
collectively in this part ofthe world.
Um, and so I I you you've beenan advocate for sustainability,
um, but also you're ahumanitarian.
You you sponsored, and Ithought, and I think this was
(28:19):
this was incredible.
Um, you supported over over,you have supported over a
hundred refugee families.
Um and I don't know, was it wasit Syrian?
Did it start with a Syrianrefugee?
Jim Estill (28:30):
So you started with Syrian, but now I keep doing
Afghans, yeah.
Uh and then when the Ukrainianthing happened, they're not
technically refugees, but we dida lot of Ukrainian.
Ian McLean (28:39):
So, how did you bring that sense of
responsibility and purpose intothe way you lead your teams?
Because, you know, and yourcompany uh culture of building,
because you've brought in andmade um made the accommodations,
and there are someaccommodations to bring in
people from other parts of theworld that are part of your of
your Danby workforce now, andand and personally, but also uh
(29:02):
within Danby.
Jim Estill (29:03):
Well, the original do the right thing, I was not
thinking do the right thing inthe world.
It was more that was just ourthat was our company manual.
Yeah.
So how do you treat yourco-worker?
How do you treat your customer?
Do you ship a substandardproduct?
It's like do the right thing.
That's a simple screen to puteverything through.
As far as um um integratingpeople into a workplace, and for
(29:25):
what it's worth, most of therefugees don't work for me.
So I've been just helped umbring people in and place them
in something that's moreappropriate for them.
We can't hire all of them, butwe already were very
multicultural, we already werethe United Nations, we already
um have that, and the the onething is uh I'm I success in
(29:46):
refugees.
There's uh four pillars.
One is people working, speakingEnglish, some degree of
integration, and giving back.
So that's the four pillars.
Um the speaking English ismaybe a little bit of a focus
because you have no future.
If you can't speak English anduh whatnot, tough love of
working.
And I I find often people whoare trying to make a new life
(30:09):
work very, very hard for theirum for their families.
But for we're basically you'relooking to have good Canadians.
That's what I'd say.
We bring in good Canadians,right?
Ian McLean (30:20):
Yeah.
And and it's it's been a realsuccess story and and uh and and
something that in for thosethat are working with newcomers
to Canada, it's a it's a real uhit's a story that people like
to tell because it it's it'sfrom the heart.
You know, you started from itpersonally, but it it has become
uh a business, uh, a businessum um, I would say success for
(30:41):
Danby as a leader, but but it'sit's helped uh it's helped your
company.
Um we've been fortunate to havelocal businesses with thought
leaders, and there's lots ofthem in Waterdo region who make
a difference uh in not onlylocally, but you know,
provincially and across thecountry.
Um in your experience, what'swhat's the most effective way
(31:01):
business leaders should workwith the communities and
government and other otherorganizations like
not-for-profits to make ameaningful impact?
Because we all have a role toplay.
I mean, you know, one of thethings that we've, you know, the
the our chamber, the CambridgeChamber, Waterdoo Economic
Development Corporation, uh,Explore Waterdoo, and
(31:23):
Communitech have collaboratedtogether as best Waterdo, the
business economic support teamof Waterdo Region, which started
during COVID, but we've keptthat going now.
Um, because we see thiscommunity is growing, will be a
million people in Waterdo regionwithin 20 years.
There's lots to do, lots ofhousing's needed, LRT, new
(31:43):
hospitals, 100,000 new jobs thatneed to be created.
Um that's not happening justwith business, it's not just
happening with with government,it's not happening with civil
society and not-for-profits.
It takes everybody.
Um, what how do you kind of seeum the role that you can play
and and that and that businessleaders can play in in that uh
(32:07):
in that you know complex dance?
Jim Estill (32:10):
So one thing I say is do your piece, whatever your
piece is.
So I happen to be doing mypiece around refugees.
I've got a furniture bank whichuh recycles furniture.
If you've we take your mother'sestate and we uh redistribute
it for free to those in need,that type of thing.
That's our piece.
But you can support the foodbank, you can support uh cancer
(32:33):
research, you can support thehospital, you and I and we do
support hospital and hospice andwhatnot, but um and so I never
fault anybody for doing any ofthat.
Um as far as politics go, Idon't do politics, but I often
I'm opinionated, so I oftenshare my opinion as to what they
could do, but I but I alwaystry to look for the greater
(32:56):
good.
So I'm not saying, okay, weshould pass legislation that
everyone has to have uh threerefrigerators in their house.
That's not uh I'm not justsaying you must buy you must buy
DMB.
Actually, that's a good one weshould put forward.
Um but uh um so I try not tolook at just my good.
And as a business person, Ialways try to find ideas that
(33:17):
are not um that don't cost muchor anything.
So um around housing, I'm a bigbeliever in accessory
apartments.
Yeah, I I'm not gonna live inan accessory apartment and I
could put one in my basement,but the fact is that's one of
the best sources of housingbecause most of the struggling
middle class needs the income ofuh and the infrastructure's
(33:40):
already there.
You're not gonna dig up theroads and put more sewers in.
All houses can do it.
That and you're already heatingthe houses best for the
environment, you're not buildingon green space.
That's one simple example thatI've been a advocate of.
Let's encourage accessory uhhousing if we can.
Yeah, yeah.
And uh, and so I I do kind oflobby around that.
(34:01):
Another one that doesn't costthe government anything is speed
doesn't cost anything.
So speed around permitting,like it costs the developer mu
interest to have a proper tohave a property waiting to be
built.
And if it costs it takesanother three or four months,
they've just added three or fourpercent to the cost of that uh
(34:22):
house to no benefit of anybody.
Ian McLean (34:26):
Yeah, I I think that's what that speed always um
or lack of speed in governmentdecisions always for for most
business people, they just don'tget it because you you can't
you can't work at that speed inin in business.
You just wouldn't be inbusiness.
And and I always describehaving been on the other side
(34:46):
too, is government is notdesigned for speed, bureaucracy,
but somewhere in between whatbusiness would like to see and
how fast things are going now,there has to be a better, better
middle.
To your point, uh, we're notgetting things done like and and
all of this has to happen atthe same time, and it's exactly
like you're located in Guelph.
Guelph has a version of thesame issues that Waterloo Region
(35:10):
has.
Toronto has a has an uh fourtimes the size or five times the
size issues that we have, butand it all has to happen at the
same time.
More doctors, new hospital,filling it, finishing our LRT or
transit in your community,70,000 homes, building creating
100,000 jobs all at the sametime.
Like that's that is notsomething that can happen slow.
(35:32):
The decisions are kind of builton one another.
And I I agree with you.
Speed is uh we got to find away to speed it up, if not to
the way to the to the speed ofbusiness, certainly faster, and
and uh and that's a very goodpoint.
Um if if you were mentoring, soas as we kind of wind up, and
then we'll get into our rapidfire questions uh at towards the
(35:55):
end.
Um if you're mentoring, andwhich you do anyways, but in
mentoring the next generation ofentrepreneurs, what's the one
piece of advice that you'd givethem to navigate in in such an
uncertain or or um chaotic worldright now?
I'm not sure it's it isn'talways to some degree, like it's
(36:17):
always uncertain, and there'salways do the I'm I I do think
that there's a there's this thismoment in this last five or six
years has been particularly umuncertain.
So what's what's the adviceyou'd give to uh to the next
generation?
Jim Estill (36:33):
Well, when my father was alive, he always said these
are the worst of times, always.
And so that's what we feel.
We feel they're the worst oftimes, we feel that feel they're
the most uncertain.
The advice is just do it anddon't be afraid of failure.
I mean, Ian, you're not gonnabe sitting there saying, Jim,
you you started this thing andit didn't work.
You're not gonna care.
(36:55):
You're you're the and so uh beflexible, but just do it.
I see many entrepreneursgetting into analysis paralysis.
So if you want to be perfectand want to know all the data,
entrepreneurship is about makingdecisions with imperfect and
incomplete data.
That's what you have to do.
(37:15):
You have to make the decisions,and uh you have to get
comfortable with that.
Ian McLean (37:20):
And and I and maybe, you know, in in admitting, and
I think you said earlier, likefail fast, fail off and fail,
fail off, fail, fail cheap.
You learn from all of thoseexperiences too.
I mean, that that's part of thethe failure saying, hey, geez,
that business, uh I didn't havethe right, the right business uh
focus, or I didn't didn't do itthe right way.
(37:42):
But you learn from that.
And I think that that that'swhat's what I hear you saying is
in the failure comes thelearning and comes the next
opportunity.
Jim Estill (37:49):
That that's true.
And true wisdom is learningfrom other people's mistakes.
We're not very good at that,but we even tend to not be good
at learning from our ownmistakes.
Ian McLean (37:57):
So I let I know that this kind of ties in for that
next generation.
What's the importance of havinga mentor?
Like you had, you know, maybeit was your parents, or when you
got started, you must have hadsome people that kind of, you
know, not everyone, but somepeople would have encouraged you
or given you advice when youasked.
Um, I think it's incrediblyimportant for young people to to
(38:19):
try and seek out someone who,you know, can be a mentor to
them, give them the straightgoods, give them some
unvarnished uh um truths thatthey that they may not see
themselves.
Uh what was the importance ofthat for you?
And and and uh because you doit now for others.
Jim Estill (38:37):
Who why is that so important?
So for sure, I did not have amentor, I had multiple mentors.
Right.
And I would have multiplementors around multiple things.
So one of my mentors was uh umFrank Hasenfrass Lin and Work
Machines, and he uh, of course,ran a big business.
So I'd ask him big businessquestions and stuff like that.
But I had so many mentors andthey didn't know they're my
(38:59):
mentors either.
No, so the other advice is buya lot of coffee or lunches,
we'll have a chat and uh andjust um go out there.
When I was growing my business,I deliberately would say, okay,
I'm doing 10 million in sales.
How do I do 20?
I'd study the people that do20.
When doing 20, study the peopledo 50, study the people do 100,
study the people do a billion.
(39:20):
So always look to the nextlevel.
And what I learned is it tendsto not be what I would need to
do to get to the next level.
It would need to be what do Istop doing to get to the next
level?
Because uh, you know, whenyou're doing 10 million in
sales, maybe you're taking allthe orders, making all the sales
calls, and doing all the work.
And maybe when you're doing ahundred million, you need to
(39:42):
have a lot of people, which iswhy I can take three weeks off
in the woods and uh they they doall the work and come back with
81 new ideas for your staff.
Ian McLean (39:50):
Listen, um looking ahead, um, because you I mean
your your career would wouldindicate this.
There's always something nextfor you.
I mean, you're standing to besuccessful.
Um, you know, there's there'suh there's but there's always a
new challenge out there.
What what what do you see thenext chapter being for you?
Jim Estill (40:08):
Well, I can see uh you alluded to earlier, I can
see there's gonna be moremanufacturing in Canada.
So I can see that.
Um, and so we've bought acouple of companies like Falcon
Manufacturing and uh Um Arctic,which so I could see uh more of
that.
Um I was fortunate because Isold my computer business when I
was too young and I was retiredand I found I didn't like being
(40:32):
retired, so I'm not looking atretiring anytime soon.
And the beauty of being anentrepreneur is I I don't have
to retire.
I could take four weeks in thewoods.
Yeah.
So uh I could still step backand have uh people do that.
Um of course I want to solvethe problems of the world, and I
guess the older I get, the moreI feel I will spend a little
(40:54):
more time solving the problems,potentially.
Yeah, that's great.
Ian McLean (40:58):
Okay, now I ask all these, uh this is kind of our
rapid fire.
I I do this with everyone who'sbrave enough to come on the on
the on the podcast.
Um so I'm just gonna I'm justgonna rip these off because I
it's always instructive for me.
This podcast is about thebusiness story, but it's also
about the leader and leadership.
And and so these there's noright or wrong answers here.
(41:20):
It's always interesting howpeople answer these.
Uh, what would you tell youryounger self if you could if you
could go back?
Don't be as afraid.
That's that's good advice.
Um, what or who inspires you?
Jim Estill (41:34):
I I tend to be inspired by uh Mother Teresa and
Gandhi and those people, theyseem very selfless.
Of course, of course, now youread things that maybe they
weren't as good as that, butright.
So I tend to be inspired bythat.
I I'm also inspired by peoplelike Frank Hasenfratz, the the
people that build it themselves.
Ian McLean (41:55):
Right.
Yeah, and that's that'sincredible.
Um, if you weren't in yourcurrent career, what would you
be doing?
So if you said I'm not doingDanby, what would you be doing?
Jim Estill (42:04):
I would be doing something in charity.
So I'd be working with thehomeless or doing something uh
in that.
Ian McLean (42:12):
We can almost almost hope that you you you've got
such a great team at Danby,maybe you do say, because we
need we need help on that onthat front.
So um is there a book thatyou're reading or a podcast
besides behind the businesspodcast?
But is there a podcast, a bookthat you're reading right now?
Jim Estill (42:30):
Uh yeah, the the one I'm um reading right now is
Alchemy by Rory Sutherland, andit's a more marketing book.
He's ex- og Ogal V and uh Ilove marketing.
I love psychology.
So uh that's a he has veryinteresting perspective.
Ian McLean (42:47):
Are most of your is it most of your reading or
podcasts um like like uh umnonfiction or or business books,
or do you do you do you kind ofcheck out and read uh you know
John Grisham books as anexample?
Jim Estill (43:01):
So most of everything I d do is um business
except when I'm on mythree-week reading.
Oh, except for in that then Ithen I'll read John Grisham or
uh I read a thousand-page KenFollett book.
Yeah.
And so I I will allow myself todo that.
But when I did that, which isvery recently, I said, you know,
I probably should do more ofthat when I'm in real life.
(43:23):
Yeah.
Like right now, and I feel Ineed to be focused more on
business, but maybe I shouldn't.
Ian McLean (43:29):
Yeah.
Well, those and Ken Follettbooks, I mean, it history and
the richness of uh of the pastare incredible.
Um, what is one of yourfavorite local businesses in in
the region?
You know, you're from Guelph,but in in in this part of the
world.
Jim Estill (43:43):
Well, the simplest one, everyone likes to eat.
I like Diana's restaurant,downtown Guelph.
It's Indian food and it's uh uhit's the right price range and
it's uh they're good people.
And so I you know, yeah, foodis just the easiest thing to
say.
Ian McLean (44:00):
So I I like that.
Okay, and where um where canlisteners go to connect with you
or your businesses?
Because you're involved in avariety of things.
If something strikes theirtheir fancy, they want to um you
know learn more about Danby orthe things that you're doing to
help the community, how wherecan they find you?
Jim Estill (44:17):
Well, LinkedIn is the most obvious, so I'm on
LinkedIn and uh you knowDanby.com is are the companies,
but uh, I'm also reasonablyGoogleable.
Ian McLean (44:28):
Listen, I want to take uh just a second to say
thank you so much for um forjoining us.
I know you're busy, so we'lllet you get on with the rest of
your day.
But well, we appreciate you uhcoming and we welcome you to our
new podcast studio, being thefirst one to be brave enough to
come here.
Really do appreciate it, andwe'll look forward to having you
back in the coming days.
(44:48):
Thanks for having me.
Thank you for joining us foranother episode of Behind the
Business, proudly presented byGore Mutual, insurance that does
good.
New episodes drop everyThursday, so be sure to tune in
next week.
You can also visit greaterkwchamber.com to catch up on
past episodes anytime.
We'll see you next time as wecontinue to go behind the
(45:10):
business.
Welcome to another episode of Behind the Business,
presented by Gore Mutual.
I'm your host, Ian McLean,President and CEO of the Greater
Kitchen Waterloo Chamber ofCommerce.
This podcast is recorded on thetraditional territory of the
neutral Anishinabe andHaudenosaunee peoples.
Each week I sit down for candidconversations where we go
beyond the boardroom and behindthe business to uncover the real
(00:21):
stories of Waterloo Region'sbusiness community.
Today's guest is Jim Estill,entrepreneur, innovator,
community builder, and the CEOof Danby Appliances.
Jim has a long track record ofturning bold ideas into thriving
(00:45):
businesses, but his story isn'tjust about business success,
it's about impact.
He sponsored over 90 refugeefamilies in Guelph, created an
entrepreneurial culture atDanby, and lives by the belief
that leaders have aresponsibility to their
communities and to the planet.
In our conversation, Jim speaksabout his journey as a serial
entrepreneur, the lessonslearned along the way, his
(01:06):
unconventional but effectivemonk mode experiences, and what
he sees as the future ofbusiness innovation in Canada.
Join me in this episode as wego behind the business with Jim
Estill of Danby Appliances.
Well, we're excited to have youhere today, Jim.
I want to thank you uh forjoining us in our new podcast
studio.
You're our first guest for inthis space, so thank you for
(01:29):
joining us and uh and and uh andcoming down to to be and share
your story with our with our uhlisteners.
Well, thanks for having me.
And listen, you know, we'veknown each other for a lot of
years, and and I've followedyour career, and you it covers
the gambit of of uh of a lot ofthings.
One of the one of thereferences uh that others make
(01:49):
of you is you've been called anunstoppable entrepreneur.
And so let's rewind a littlebit uh to you know from where
you are today, but let's rewindto the $2 billion company you
started as a as a student at theUniversity of Waterloo.
Uh share the story of thatbusiness and and what initially
(02:10):
sparked your interest in inentrepreneurship.
Because not everyone's suitedfor it.
Some people are.
You are obviously one of them.
Tell that story.
Jim Estill (02:18):
So I was in university, fourth year systems
design, and I wanted to designcircuit boards and I needed a
computer.
And back in that era, computerswere very expensive.
But I found I could get abetter deal if I bought two of
them.
So I bought two and I sold one,and then someone else wanted
one, so I bought one, and thensomeone wanted a printer,
someone wanted a disk drive.
We needed to upgrade thememory.
(02:39):
And so pretty soon I'm buyingand selling computer hardware,
software, peripherals, andthat's the business that grew
ultimately.
Um, partly I was in the rightplace at the right time because
computers were just in theirinfancy.
This was before everyone had acomputer.
Matter of fact, the questionwould be well, do you have a
computer?
(02:59):
Oh, well, okay, then I won'ttalk to you.
Now, like, how many computersdo you have?
Like it, it's it's kind oflike, well, you have a
television, you don't needanother television.
Yes, you do.
Um my interest inentrepreneurism actually started
younger than that.
I was um a camp counselor, andI, but the camp I worked at was
(03:19):
only open for a month, and so Ineeded a job for the other
month, and no one would hireanyone for a month.
And my dad had me painting afence, and one of the neighbors
said, Oh, could you paintsomething for me?
And then I painted that, then Iwent and started Jim's
painting.
So when I was in high school, Ihad this taste of having my own
business, riding around on mybicycle, quoting jobs.
(03:42):
I hired my brothers, I hired myfriends.
So I had a college pro painterbusiness before college pro was
a thing.
And uh and that was just thetaste of entrepreneurship,
entrepreneurship that I could doit on my own.
Wow.
Um in the company that youbuilt, because I'm I'm
interested, but people start abusiness.
(04:03):
I mean, there's lots of thingsthat go into that in every it
eventually grew to being a largecompany.
When you first got started, howdid you finance it?
Like that's one of the thingspeople start a business, they
where's the capital to even getstarted to get your two
computers, and then and thenyou, you know, obviously if
you're selling those things, youneed inventory, you you have
(04:23):
there's a variety of things.
Talk a little bit about some ofsome of those things to get
started because a lot of ourmembers would be new businesses
starting their own, you know, asecond career or or or vocation
that they that they're reallyinterested in.
There must have been somethings in there that you had to,
you know, some of those hurdlesthat you had to navigate.
So I did what manyentrepreneurs do today and went
(04:45):
out and approached people andtried to raise money and say,
uh, Ian, will you invest in mybusiness?
And the answer from everybodywas no.
You have no experience.
You're a kid, we don't trustyou, we don't think you'll be
successful.
So, but that actually helped mebecause it created a frugality.
And uh, okay, I'm not going toum have be able to buy this
(05:06):
trade show booth.
I'm going to make the tradeshow booth.
I'm going to take the kitchentable and put a drop cloth over
it and uh and and whatnot.
So I didn't have money, whichlimited my growth in the early
days, but that wasn't badbecause I wasn't uh it gave me
time to learn how to run abusiness.
So I did 450,000 the firstyear, then a million and 79,000,
(05:30):
then 2.6 million, then 4.6million, then 5.6 million, then
10 million, then 20 million, 1million.
So I I I just grew um where ifI jumped straight into doing $50
million, I probably didn't knowhow to run it.
And I would have not known howto manage people or whatnot.
As far as cash goes, I learnedhow to collect money from people
(05:54):
before they got their product.
And as they got delivery, Ilearned how to pay people later.
Yeah.
And uh so largely it was uhmanaging your cash flow, right?
Ian McLean (06:07):
Money in and then stretching out your payables and
exactly.
Jim Estill (06:10):
And um being in the computer business and inventory,
because I had to go lean oninventory, that turned out to be
a genius thing becausetechnology, if I said, Oh, I've
got this uh computer, and by theway, it's been in inventory for
three years, you're gonna say,well, that's not worth anything.
And so um turning yourinventory fast, um, I figure in
(06:32):
the technology business,inventory can devalue like 4%
per month.
Like it's it's hugedevaluation.
So um it served me well that Iactually couldn't have built a
huge warehouse and filled itwith inventory.
Ian McLean (06:46):
The Behind the Business Podcast is made
possible through the support ofour title sponsor, Gore Mutual.
Proudly Canadian, Gore Mutualhas stayed true to one purpose
for more than 185 years: insurance that does good. (06:55):
undefined
It's the reason they exist.
They believe that when we focuson being good, doing good, and
spreading good, we all thrivetogether.
We're grateful for theircontinued commitment to our
local communities and thepositive impact they make every
day.
For more information, visitgoremutual.ca.
(07:15):
So let's switch a little bit.
You you know, you've you havementored and invested in many
companies along the way.
So from you, though that wasyour you know, seminal kind of
learning, learning stage.
But I mean, when I when I andyou're now running Danby and
doing very successful there, butI when I first heard your name,
it was in the tech space.
You were a tech guy.
(07:36):
Um you've mentored and investedin many companies, including
you're a founding board memberof Blackberry.
I remember those early days.
Uh, I had every BlackBerry fromthe time it was uh pager all
the way through, but I rememberthose those early days.
Based on your experience, whatare the some of the common
traits uh or approaches do yousee in leaders and companies
(07:59):
that succeed in you know andinnovate in in such a fast-paced
tech-driven environment here inWaterdo Region?
Because that that's that wasone of the things.
Things were once once the techUFW and all of those the the
BlackBerry era started, therewere a ton of companies.
Things were changing reallyfast.
(08:19):
It really got to warp speed.
What are some of those thosecommon traits and approaches for
in that fast-paced uhenvironment?
Jim Estill (08:27):
Well, it it's strange combinations of
persistence and knowing when tolet go and knowing when to
change direction.
So the pivot is a fundamental.
I I I mean, I even pivoted inmy business, my my first
business.
I wanted to design circuitboards.
That was what I wanted to do.
But I pivoted to buying andselling computer products
because that's what becameprofitable, and that is what
(08:49):
became the the big business.
So I I noticed one successcharacteristic is the pivot, the
ability or the willingness tolet go, but at the same time,
the persistence and the speedand the sense of urgency.
Sense of urgency absolutelywins.
Ian McLean (09:06):
Yeah, you know, it it's uh it's fascinating in this
community um that there thatthere is that we've we've been
through a bunch of different uhyou know traditional businesses
like farming and insurance andsort of manufacturing, and then
we've gotten into you know highfinance, if you will, and and
(09:27):
and technology.
And and there are some of thosecommon traits that go through
to be successful in business.
So appreciate that.
Listen, 2017, and this is thisis the pivot point when I when
you know for for some who willknow you more for Danby than
they would for your for yourtech career, but you joined
Danby as the CEO.
Um, and and you know, I thinkit was probably seen as those
(09:51):
were the days when manufacturingwas on a was on a low rev.
Um I mean, everythingeverything was um whether it was
in car manufacturing or uhassembly and and and um and auto
parts, there was there was alot of disruption in those days.
Um and Danby was, and or atleast manufacturing in North
(10:12):
America was probably seen asbeing um an established brand,
but in you know, sort of pastits prime.
Um, how did you breathe newlife into Danby as a comp as a
70-year-old company in anenvironment where manufacturing
was was a tough place to be inNorth America.
So there was a lot of thingsthat were that were being
(10:33):
manufactured or assembled in inother parts of the world, Asia
uh amongst them.
Jim Estill (10:38):
And at that time, and even now, Danby has a lot of
products assembled in Asia andMexico and uh Bangladesh and
Malaysia and wherever.
So um partly what what I triedto do in is to impart the sense
of urgency and the speed in asmokestack business.
So just take the technologyspeed, and uh so when I got into
(11:02):
it, the the inventory examplewas an example.
You go in and they say, Ohyeah, we've got nine months of
inventory.
What do you mean you have ninemonths of inventory?
We need to turn this every 30days normally, or else it's
gonna be obsolete.
They oh no, it's not obsolete.
Your air conditioner is thesame last year as it was the
year before, as it was the yearbefore.
Um and then uh I have alwaysbeen looking, I always look at
(11:22):
niches.
What are the areas that we cando well in?
Um, part of the key in businessis actually to pick the right
size business opportunity forthe right person.
So you're gonna have anentrepreneur listening to this
that says, oh, AI is gonna bebig.
Great, you're gonna be the nextAI.
Uh, and you're gonna be whatGoogle and Microsoft and
whatever.
Well, really, is that it?
(11:43):
But maybe you can be AI fordentists, doing implants,
especially uh in the uppermouth.
I'm I'm just so so what I did,what we do at Danby is we have a
few niches, and it's multipleniches that we uh go after.
I always look for competitiveadvantage, I always look for
utilization.
(12:04):
How can we utilize our um ourwhat we have better?
Um, Danby has a reasonablylarge air conditioner, window,
and a portable air conditionerbusiness.
And uh so that of course issummer weighted.
That's why we bought ArcticSnowplow, which is winter
weight.
Yeah.
And so that means that when onecompany doesn't need the
(12:25):
resource, the others can uh usethe resource.
But business is a matter oftiny tweaks as opposed to a
major, you know, ripping thingsout or changing, in my
experience.
Ian McLean (12:39):
You you talked about uh turnover of product and how
much you have so that you canyou can be responsive to your
customer when they need it, butyou're not sitting on too much
because extra product is justmoney sitting on the shelf and
it's not being put to good use.
Um as as you in in yourexperience with Damby, just in
time delivery is a thing,certainly in the auto space of
(13:01):
you know, getting parts that youneed for assembly in in
different plants.
Is that part of the model thatthat every manufacturer has to
have now?
Is is that dance or that thatchoreography of getting what you
need to do your part of thebusiness to get the finished
product?
I mean, or or is that unique tolarger businesses?
Jim Estill (13:18):
So uh it it was everything was heading to just
in time.
Then COVID happened.
Right.
And what happened in COVID isall of a sudden you couldn't get
the parts.
Right.
And all of a sudden the supplychain was broken.
Then all of a sudden said, Iwish I had 60 days of parts
sitting here because then I'd beable to ship something.
So um the supply chain changedfrom just in time.
(13:39):
The other thing, as far asniche goes and Danby, one of the
niches that we decided was wewanted to have some inventory.
Um, because what happens islarge companies like Home Depot,
they will order um containersfrom China.
But then all of a sudden theyfind out, oh, we're out of
freezers.
Well, for in COVID, they're outof freezers.
Hey, well, we've got themsitting in our warehouse.
(14:01):
So the local um having localwarehouses in North America with
product, it became a little bitof a a niche.
That said, you've got to watchyour working capital, got to
watch your uh storage costmoney.
Ian McLean (14:15):
So is there actually, I mean, that's an
interesting question becauseCOVID did it it it it it really
exposed cracks, whether it's inthe social side of our
communities, whether it was inbusiness of of some of the
things that that were needed tobe rebalanced.
It is there a new and you justtouched on it, is there a new
sort of post-COVID uhequilibrium there about saying
(14:38):
it's not just in time, but it'salso not having you know huge
amounts of inventory?
How do you is there a newbalance that businesses have
have had to strike?
Jim Estill (14:48):
I think that that there is definitely a new
balance relative to uh um havinginventory, but it the other
part is it's more subtle thanthat.
It's okay, what are thecritical parts that you're not
gonna be able to get?
What are the the few parts?
Um and uh I mean we got good atsubstitute selling.
So you you want a uh a 10 cubicfoot fridge.
(15:08):
Oh, great.
Well, that means uh you couldtake a nine cubic foot because
we've got those in in stock.
Um, the the current tariff inthe United States is creating a
um an opportunity to move anyslow-moving inventory because uh
maybe the black freezer didn'tsell well.
Well, you want a freezer, well,you can buy a black freezer and
it doesn't have the highertariff on it.
(15:30):
Uh um so uh, but thingsdefinitely changed, and I think
businesses realized they neededalso multiple sources.
So uh pre-COVID, you'd in manycases you'd sort of solidify
your buying clout and say, I'lltake a million of these or five
million of these pieces and giveme the lowest price for five
(15:50):
million.
Now it's kind of okay, we'llwe'll take you can have four
million, but I'm gonna buy amillion from somebody else just
because you gotta have just incase.
Ian McLean (15:58):
Yeah.
Um we we talked about this atour Innovation Core or event uh
the other day.
Um, supply chains are are, Imean, I think there is this
notion, and we've we've heardfrom from uh um from government
we we can't be as reliant on theUS.
Uh and not the the trade andtariffs thing has upset the
entire global because it'sthere's tariffs on everyone and
(16:20):
how and how it intersects withthe US, still the the world's
largest economy.
Um is there an opportunity inCanada?
I think we saw this in COVID,coming back to COVID.
It's like, well, we didn't havemasks, we didn't have rubber
gloves, we didn't have uh wedidn't have a lot of the things
that we needed on the medicalside because all of that was
(16:42):
sourced from Asia or otherplaces.
We found out that Canadianindustry in a matter of weeks
pivoted and started like EclipseAutomation started making
masks, and there was lots ofpeople that that the innovative
um um entrepreneurial spiritstruck and everyone said we got
we got to deal with this.
There is there an opportunityfor there to be more homegrown
(17:05):
uh Canadian um supply chain thatthat that uh that serves
businesses like Danby?
Jim Estill (17:12):
So in COVID, actually, Danby did did a micro
pivot and we made 10,000ventilators.
I don't know whether youremember.
Ian McLean (17:20):
Oh yes, I do I do remember that.
I think we talked about that onthe radio show or something,
yeah.
Jim Estill (17:24):
Yeah, so we made 10,000 ventilators, which was a
pivot because uh ventilator'snot that dissimilar to making a
wine cooler, it's smaller andwhatnot.
But I was worried I was gonnahave to lay off all my staff,
and I was worried I was gonnanot be in business because
that's what everyone thought atthat time.
But is there more opportunity?
There is more opportunity forCanadian made, but what people
(17:45):
have to understand is volume isstill tough to break.
Ian McLean (17:50):
Yeah.
Jim Estill (17:51):
So if you were to take an example of freezers, 10
times as many freezers arebought in the States as they are
in Canada.
And the molds and tools anddyes to make a freezer might be
a couple million dollars.
So if you take that and divideit amongst uh, you know, 100,000
pieces, well, that's $20 moreper freezer.
You do it to 10,000 pieces,it's $200 more.
(18:14):
So there is this issue witheconomy of scale, which is tough
to um do.
At the same time, there's highpsychology in the public to buy
Canadian.
Yeah.
And so there's an advantagethere.
Um, and the other thing onthat, there's sort of it's a
variation of buy Canadian.
(18:34):
Like um, if you're buying ascrewdriver, you better buy it
from Canadian Tire, which isCanadian retail, even though
it's made in China, yeah.
Or buy it from Home Depot, evenmade in China, yeah, China.
But uh um and the fact is everyproduct you buy, even if it's
made in Canada, probablyundoubtedly has input.
Where'd the screws come from?
Where'd the the parts comefrom?
(18:55):
So made in Canada is nevernever a hundred percent made in
Canada.
Ian McLean (18:59):
Yeah, it's uh fair fair point.
Uh I think there's almost partof that, if I if I look at it,
even in the grocery stores, yougo, I'll buy blueberries because
I want blueberries, but I'm notbuying American blueberries.
I'll buy, you know, if I canfind Canadian, that's the number
one, but I'll buy them fromMexico or I'll buy them from
wherever else they're I see onthe store shelves.
(19:19):
I think there's some of that.
It's just um Canadians areangry about what the US has
done.
It was interesting to hear thethe American side of why that
was.
But anyway, that's a separateconversation um um uh for for
another time because we willhave you back on I love these
conversations with you.
Look, um I'm I I I wasthinking, what's the boldest
(19:43):
decision you've ever made thatreally changed the trajectory of
your journey?
Like, was it leaving sort oftech and going to Danby or
what's what's the boldest thingyou've done either in business
or in your career?
Jim Estill (19:56):
Well, the boldest decision was uh when I started
my business in university.
Yeah.
Because even though I startedever so gee, you're successful
the first couple of years,you're making no money.
Yeah.
I could have got a job at TimHortons and made more money.
That's how um so that was theboldest, but it was a great time
to start because I had nooverhead.
(20:16):
Like I wasn't used to uh anice, you know, I don't know in
the car or anything.
You know, it's like I've got acar.
Well, that means I need to getsomeone to boost me to start it.
Isn't that how you start a car?
Ian McLean (20:29):
Yeah.
Okay.
Um we often hear about successstories, and I think there's um
um I think every small businessowner, every entrepreneur knows
that uh uh creativity and andthe innovation um comes with
that comes a fair number ofeither mistakes or or learning
(20:53):
lessons if you want to put thepositive spin on that.
Um and I think this is onething I've been elected office
before.
We work a lot with withgovernment and on policy, and
there's this fear in ingovernment of saying we we gotta
work go slow because we can'tmake mistakes.
Business makes mistakes, andbusiness owners, corporations,
(21:14):
we they make mistakes all thetime, but they learn from them.
What role have have thosefailures or the or the missteps
played in um in your career inin terms of how you adapt when
you make a mistake or you youmake the wrong decision and have
to pivot?
Jim Estill (21:31):
So uh I believe in having a culture of failure,
meaning you don't zap people forfailing.
And one of my expressions isfail off and fail fast, fail
cheap.
So the but the key is you needto do all three.
So the companies that faildon't forget to fail cheap.
So we I undoubtedly we'reintroducing products next month.
(21:52):
One of them is going to fail,but it's fail off and fail fast,
fail cheap.
So, how can we make it so it'sa cheap failure?
Well, we'll sell the thing atcost, we'll we'll sell it at a
10%.
Like sell we'll sell throughthe failures.
The other thing I say to peopleand entrepreneurs is having a
failure does not make you afailure.
(22:12):
And people remember the thegood stuff.
They don't rem like you, youtalked about Blackberry.
So Jim's a genius.
He did Blackberry.
I did 150 companies, 25 of themexited.
So there was, you know, well.caand myovision and clear path
and um, you know, a bunch ofsuccessful ones, but a hundred
(22:34):
of them went bankrupt.
And so no, you're not sayingthat, hey Jim, you invest in
this company that went bankrupt.
Yeah, I did.
Um it's but it's fail off andfail fast, fail cheap.
Um, and uh I always find thatyou you you don't put enough in
the winners uh that you investin, and I put too much in the
losers.
Um but partly as anentrepreneur you need to um move
(22:58):
forward, shake it off and notdwell on any stuck on it, yeah.
And the same thing can happenactually on successes.
So sometimes you'll see an uhOlympic athlete and they are
living their life because theygot a gold in the Olympics uh 28
years ago.
And is that, you know, youcan't totally live on past glory
(23:19):
either.
Ian McLean (23:20):
Yeah.
Well, that's it, that'sinteresting.
Um recently, and I I found thisinteresting getting ready for
this.
You spent three weeks in thewoods for what you refer to as
uh in monk mode.
Uh, you completely disconnectedfrom technology and
electricity, living completelyoff the grid, which is uh harder
(23:41):
than one might might imagine, Isuspect.
What did you gain from thatexperience and how does it shape
your business thinking?
And and I'm not sure if you dothis often, but you certainly
did it recently.
What how did that affect yourbusiness thinking uh when you
came back from being totally offthe grid?
Jim Estill (24:00):
So I try to do it every year.
Ian McLean (24:01):
You do it every year.
Jim Estill (24:02):
Well, so I do it uh repeatedly.
Um there's a few things.
I am a digital addict.
So you weren't here when I gothere, and well, that's okay.
I'll just check and see anemail or text, and and so I'm a
digital addict.
I will go work on a computer athome and then or at the office
and then drive home and check mymy my email and then my news
(24:23):
and my stock prices and um andwhatnot.
So you I I'm a digital addict.
I went to uh I go to a placewhere there is no internet
service.
So I even if I want to, I can'tcheck my phone.
Um so being disconnected itslows me down.
It gives me an appreciation forthe little things.
(24:45):
Like um making uh making tea isone example I use.
Like to make tea, you have togo take the water out of the
lake, you have to put it througha filter because it's not clean
to drink, you have to go findsome wood, cut it up, make a
fire, uh, right, and half anhour later, maybe you'll have
tea 45 minutes later.
So everything's slow,everything's physical.
(25:07):
So I like the physical.
Um from a business point ofview, I I have a journal and I
come back with a lot of ideas.
But I think time and and Yeah,and I but I at the same time I
have to be careful.
I don't want to come back andthen t tell you have the team,
here's my eighty-one ideas thatall need to be done on Monday.
(25:27):
But it's very helpful for myteam because it means my
business has to be able to runwithout me.
And I believe in businessthat's strong businesses can't
be me making all the decisionsand waiting for me to make that.
So um people in the companythey rise up, they start making
(25:50):
decisions, they start doingthings.
So when I come back, um Iactually have a little bit more
time because they found out oh,they could deal with this.
So that's um that's healthy,but it's it's just healthy for
me.
Like I my optimism goes up andI I it's healthy.
Ian McLean (26:06):
I well and I I probably fall into the same
category.
I'm always checking emails andand what's next.
I think one of the things thatprobably would do some good for
folks out there that arelistening is if you're
disconnected, you're also notseeing all the negative.
So I think you can come backand say, Oh, here's some new
ideas and come up with, as yousay, that optimism.
(26:29):
Uh, because when you do stayconnected electronically, email,
social media, news, there's notmuch of it that's particularly
positive.
So so it it it does sap thatthat sort of uh excitement for
what what could be uh whenyou're when you're seeing the
reality of the day.
Jim Estill (26:47):
That's right.
I I am a news junkie for sure.
It's actually one of the thingsI like about this type of show
is uh it it's more focused onthe positive, yeah.
Because people actually clickon the negative because they
want to hear about the the massshooting and the earthquake and
the um disasters.
They don't want to hear asmuch.
(27:08):
And everything's an echochamber, right?
So once you click on once, youyou you get you get it from one
news source, then another, thenanother.
Ian McLean (27:15):
Well, we'll have to have you on business to
business, uh, because that'swhat we try and do on that show
on a weekly basis, is try andtell some more positive stories
about successes in business andhow it's helping the community.
Uh, because there's not enoughof that uh in in media as a
whole.
Listen, one of the things thatI've I've followed your career,
I've admired your career, um isis but one of the things I do um
(27:37):
admire is your belief in doingthe right thing as a person, but
also as a company.
And um, you know, and and itfor the community and for the
world.
And and of course, um I've beeninvolved with the immigration
partnership of Waterloo Regionaround getting newcomers,
getting them settled, and asense of belonging and finding
(27:59):
work uh for the 15 years I'vebeen at the chamber because it's
important.
It's it's our it's it's thetalent force of of of our future
collectively in this part ofthe world.
Um, and so I I you you've beenan advocate for sustainability,
um, but also you're ahumanitarian.
You you sponsored, and Ithought, and I think this was
(28:19):
this was incredible.
Um, you supported over over,you have supported over a
hundred refugee families.
Um and I don't know, was it wasit Syrian?
Did it start with a Syrianrefugee?
Jim Estill (28:30):
So you started with Syrian, but now I keep doing
Afghans, yeah.
Uh and then when the Ukrainianthing happened, they're not
technically refugees, but we dida lot of Ukrainian.
Ian McLean (28:39):
So, how did you bring that sense of
responsibility and purpose intothe way you lead your teams?
Because, you know, and yourcompany uh culture of building,
because you've brought in andmade um made the accommodations,
and there are someaccommodations to bring in
people from other parts of theworld that are part of your of
your Danby workforce now, andand and personally, but also uh
(29:02):
within Danby.
Jim Estill (29:03):
Well, the original do the right thing, I was not
thinking do the right thing inthe world.
It was more that was just ourthat was our company manual.
Yeah.
So how do you treat yourco-worker?
How do you treat your customer?
Do you ship a substandardproduct?
It's like do the right thing.
That's a simple screen to puteverything through.
As far as um um integratingpeople into a workplace, and for
(29:25):
what it's worth, most of therefugees don't work for me.
So I've been just helped umbring people in and place them
in something that's moreappropriate for them.
We can't hire all of them, butwe already were very
multicultural, we already werethe United Nations, we already
um have that, and the the onething is uh I'm I success in
(29:46):
refugees.
There's uh four pillars.
One is people working, speakingEnglish, some degree of
integration, and giving back.
So that's the four pillars.
Um the speaking English ismaybe a little bit of a focus
because you have no future.
If you can't speak English anduh whatnot, tough love of
working.
And I I find often people whoare trying to make a new life
(30:09):
work very, very hard for theirum for their families.
But for we're basically you'relooking to have good Canadians.
That's what I'd say.
We bring in good Canadians,right?
Ian McLean (30:20):
Yeah.
And and it's it's been a realsuccess story and and uh and and
something that in for thosethat are working with newcomers
to Canada, it's a it's a real uhit's a story that people like
to tell because it it's it'sfrom the heart.
You know, you started from itpersonally, but it it has become
uh a business, uh, a businessum um, I would say success for
(30:41):
Danby as a leader, but but it'sit's helped uh it's helped your
company.
Um we've been fortunate to havelocal businesses with thought
leaders, and there's lots ofthem in Waterdo region who make
a difference uh in not onlylocally, but you know,
provincially and across thecountry.
Um in your experience, what'swhat's the most effective way
(31:01):
business leaders should workwith the communities and
government and other otherorganizations like
not-for-profits to make ameaningful impact?
Because we all have a role toplay.
I mean, you know, one of thethings that we've, you know, the
the our chamber, the CambridgeChamber, Waterdoo Economic
Development Corporation, uh,Explore Waterdoo, and
(31:23):
Communitech have collaboratedtogether as best Waterdo, the
business economic support teamof Waterdo Region, which started
during COVID, but we've keptthat going now.
Um, because we see thiscommunity is growing, will be a
million people in Waterdo regionwithin 20 years.
There's lots to do, lots ofhousing's needed, LRT, new
(31:43):
hospitals, 100,000 new jobs thatneed to be created.
Um that's not happening justwith business, it's not just
happening with with government,it's not happening with civil
society and not-for-profits.
It takes everybody.
Um, what how do you kind of seeum the role that you can play
and and that and that businessleaders can play in in that uh
(32:07):
in that you know complex dance?
Jim Estill (32:10):
So one thing I say is do your piece, whatever your
piece is.
So I happen to be doing mypiece around refugees.
I've got a furniture bank whichuh recycles furniture.
If you've we take your mother'sestate and we uh redistribute
it for free to those in need,that type of thing.
That's our piece.
But you can support the foodbank, you can support uh cancer
(32:33):
research, you can support thehospital, you and I and we do
support hospital and hospice andwhatnot, but um and so I never
fault anybody for doing any ofthat.
Um as far as politics go, Idon't do politics, but I often
I'm opinionated, so I oftenshare my opinion as to what they
could do, but I but I alwaystry to look for the greater
(32:56):
good.
So I'm not saying, okay, weshould pass legislation that
everyone has to have uh threerefrigerators in their house.
That's not uh I'm not justsaying you must buy you must buy
DMB.
Actually, that's a good one weshould put forward.
Um but uh um so I try not tolook at just my good.
And as a business person, Ialways try to find ideas that
(33:17):
are not um that don't cost muchor anything.
So um around housing, I'm a bigbeliever in accessory
apartments.
Yeah, I I'm not gonna live inan accessory apartment and I
could put one in my basement,but the fact is that's one of
the best sources of housingbecause most of the struggling
middle class needs the income ofuh and the infrastructure's
(33:40):
already there.
You're not gonna dig up theroads and put more sewers in.
All houses can do it.
That and you're already heatingthe houses best for the
environment, you're not buildingon green space.
That's one simple example thatI've been a advocate of.
Let's encourage accessory uhhousing if we can.
Yeah, yeah.
And uh, and so I I do kind oflobby around that.
(34:01):
Another one that doesn't costthe government anything is speed
doesn't cost anything.
So speed around permitting,like it costs the developer mu
interest to have a proper tohave a property waiting to be
built.
And if it costs it takesanother three or four months,
they've just added three or fourpercent to the cost of that uh
(34:22):
house to no benefit of anybody.
Ian McLean (34:26):
Yeah, I I think that's what that speed always um
or lack of speed in governmentdecisions always for for most
business people, they just don'tget it because you you can't
you can't work at that speed inin in business.
You just wouldn't be inbusiness.
And and I always describehaving been on the other side
(34:46):
too, is government is notdesigned for speed, bureaucracy,
but somewhere in between whatbusiness would like to see and
how fast things are going now,there has to be a better, better
middle.
To your point, uh, we're notgetting things done like and and
all of this has to happen atthe same time, and it's exactly
like you're located in Guelph.
Guelph has a version of thesame issues that Waterloo Region
(35:10):
has.
Toronto has a has an uh fourtimes the size or five times the
size issues that we have, butand it all has to happen at the
same time.
More doctors, new hospital,filling it, finishing our LRT or
transit in your community,70,000 homes, building creating
100,000 jobs all at the sametime.
Like that's that is notsomething that can happen slow.
(35:32):
The decisions are kind of builton one another.
And I I agree with you.
Speed is uh we got to find away to speed it up, if not to
the way to the to the speed ofbusiness, certainly faster, and
and uh and that's a very goodpoint.
Um if if you were mentoring, soas as we kind of wind up, and
then we'll get into our rapidfire questions uh at towards the
(35:55):
end.
Um if you're mentoring, andwhich you do anyways, but in
mentoring the next generation ofentrepreneurs, what's the one
piece of advice that you'd givethem to navigate in in such an
uncertain or or um chaotic worldright now?
I'm not sure it's it isn'talways to some degree, like it's
(36:17):
always uncertain, and there'salways do the I'm I I do think
that there's a there's this thismoment in this last five or six
years has been particularly umuncertain.
So what's what's the adviceyou'd give to uh to the next
generation?
Jim Estill (36:33):
Well, when my father was alive, he always said these
are the worst of times, always.
And so that's what we feel.
We feel they're the worst oftimes, we feel that feel they're
the most uncertain.
The advice is just do it anddon't be afraid of failure.
I mean, Ian, you're not gonnabe sitting there saying, Jim,
you you started this thing andit didn't work.
You're not gonna care.
(36:55):
You're you're the and so uh beflexible, but just do it.
I see many entrepreneursgetting into analysis paralysis.
So if you want to be perfectand want to know all the data,
entrepreneurship is about makingdecisions with imperfect and
incomplete data.
That's what you have to do.
(37:15):
You have to make the decisions,and uh you have to get
comfortable with that.
Ian McLean (37:20):
And and I and maybe, you know, in in admitting, and
I think you said earlier, likefail fast, fail off and fail,
fail off, fail, fail cheap.
You learn from all of thoseexperiences too.
I mean, that that's part of thethe failure saying, hey, geez,
that business, uh I didn't havethe right, the right business uh
focus, or I didn't didn't do itthe right way.
(37:42):
But you learn from that.
And I think that that that'swhat's what I hear you saying is
in the failure comes thelearning and comes the next
opportunity.
Jim Estill (37:49):
That that's true.
And true wisdom is learningfrom other people's mistakes.
We're not very good at that,but we even tend to not be good
at learning from our ownmistakes.
Ian McLean (37:57):
So I let I know that this kind of ties in for that
next generation.
What's the importance of havinga mentor?
Like you had, you know, maybeit was your parents, or when you
got started, you must have hadsome people that kind of, you
know, not everyone, but somepeople would have encouraged you
or given you advice when youasked.
Um, I think it's incrediblyimportant for young people to to
(38:19):
try and seek out someone who,you know, can be a mentor to
them, give them the straightgoods, give them some
unvarnished uh um truths thatthey that they may not see
themselves.
Uh what was the importance ofthat for you?
And and and uh because you doit now for others.
Jim Estill (38:37):
Who why is that so important?
So for sure, I did not have amentor, I had multiple mentors.
Right.
And I would have multiplementors around multiple things.
So one of my mentors was uh umFrank Hasenfrass Lin and Work
Machines, and he uh, of course,ran a big business.
So I'd ask him big businessquestions and stuff like that.
But I had so many mentors andthey didn't know they're my
(38:59):
mentors either.
No, so the other advice is buya lot of coffee or lunches,
we'll have a chat and uh andjust um go out there.
When I was growing my business,I deliberately would say, okay,
I'm doing 10 million in sales.
How do I do 20?
I'd study the people that do20.
When doing 20, study the peopledo 50, study the people do 100,
study the people do a billion.
(39:20):
So always look to the nextlevel.
And what I learned is it tendsto not be what I would need to
do to get to the next level.
It would need to be what do Istop doing to get to the next
level?
Because uh, you know, whenyou're doing 10 million in
sales, maybe you're taking allthe orders, making all the sales
calls, and doing all the work.
And maybe when you're doing ahundred million, you need to
(39:42):
have a lot of people, which iswhy I can take three weeks off
in the woods and uh they they doall the work and come back with
81 new ideas for your staff.
Ian McLean (39:50):
Listen, um looking ahead, um, because you I mean
your your career would wouldindicate this.
There's always something nextfor you.
I mean, you're standing to besuccessful.
Um, you know, there's there'suh there's but there's always a
new challenge out there.
What what what do you see thenext chapter being for you?
Jim Estill (40:08):
Well, I can see uh you alluded to earlier, I can
see there's gonna be moremanufacturing in Canada.
So I can see that.
Um, and so we've bought acouple of companies like Falcon
Manufacturing and uh Um Arctic,which so I could see uh more of
that.
Um I was fortunate because Isold my computer business when I
was too young and I was retiredand I found I didn't like being
(40:32):
retired, so I'm not looking atretiring anytime soon.
And the beauty of being anentrepreneur is I I don't have
to retire.
I could take four weeks in thewoods.
Yeah.
So uh I could still step backand have uh people do that.
Um of course I want to solvethe problems of the world, and I
guess the older I get, the moreI feel I will spend a little
(40:54):
more time solving the problems,potentially.
Yeah, that's great.
Ian McLean (40:58):
Okay, now I ask all these, uh this is kind of our
rapid fire.
I I do this with everyone who'sbrave enough to come on the on
the on the podcast.
Um so I'm just gonna I'm justgonna rip these off because I
it's always instructive for me.
This podcast is about thebusiness story, but it's also
about the leader and leadership.
And and so these there's noright or wrong answers here.
(41:20):
It's always interesting howpeople answer these.
Uh, what would you tell youryounger self if you could if you
could go back?
Don't be as afraid.
That's that's good advice.
Um, what or who inspires you?
Jim Estill (41:34):
I I tend to be inspired by uh Mother Teresa and
Gandhi and those people, theyseem very selfless.
Of course, of course, now youread things that maybe they
weren't as good as that, butright.
So I tend to be inspired bythat.
I I'm also inspired by peoplelike Frank Hasenfratz, the the
people that build it themselves.
Ian McLean (41:55):
Right.
Yeah, and that's that'sincredible.
Um, if you weren't in yourcurrent career, what would you
be doing?
So if you said I'm not doingDanby, what would you be doing?
Jim Estill (42:04):
I would be doing something in charity.
So I'd be working with thehomeless or doing something uh
in that.
Ian McLean (42:12):
We can almost almost hope that you you you've got
such a great team at Danby,maybe you do say, because we
need we need help on that onthat front.
So um is there a book thatyou're reading or a podcast
besides behind the businesspodcast?
But is there a podcast, a bookthat you're reading right now?
Jim Estill (42:30):
Uh yeah, the the one I'm um reading right now is
Alchemy by Rory Sutherland, andit's a more marketing book.
He's ex- og Ogal V and uh Ilove marketing.
I love psychology.
So uh that's a he has veryinteresting perspective.
Ian McLean (42:47):
Are most of your is it most of your reading or
podcasts um like like uh umnonfiction or or business books,
or do you do you do you kind ofcheck out and read uh you know
John Grisham books as anexample?
Jim Estill (43:01):
So most of everything I d do is um business
except when I'm on mythree-week reading.
Oh, except for in that then Ithen I'll read John Grisham or
uh I read a thousand-page KenFollett book.
Yeah.
And so I I will allow myself todo that.
But when I did that, which isvery recently, I said, you know,
I probably should do more ofthat when I'm in real life.
(43:23):
Yeah.
Like right now, and I feel Ineed to be focused more on
business, but maybe I shouldn't.
Ian McLean (43:29):
Yeah.
Well, those and Ken Follettbooks, I mean, it history and
the richness of uh of the pastare incredible.
Um, what is one of yourfavorite local businesses in in
the region?
You know, you're from Guelph,but in in in this part of the
world.
Jim Estill (43:43):
Well, the simplest one, everyone likes to eat.
I like Diana's restaurant,downtown Guelph.
It's Indian food and it's uh uhit's the right price range and
it's uh they're good people.
And so I you know, yeah, foodis just the easiest thing to
say.
Ian McLean (44:00):
So I I like that.
Okay, and where um where canlisteners go to connect with you
or your businesses?
Because you're involved in avariety of things.
If something strikes theirtheir fancy, they want to um you
know learn more about Danby orthe things that you're doing to
help the community, how wherecan they find you?
Jim Estill (44:17):
Well, LinkedIn is the most obvious, so I'm on
LinkedIn and uh you knowDanby.com is are the companies,
but uh, I'm also reasonablyGoogleable.
Ian McLean (44:28):
Listen, I want to take uh just a second to say
thank you so much for um forjoining us.
I know you're busy, so we'lllet you get on with the rest of
your day.
But well, we appreciate you uhcoming and we welcome you to our
new podcast studio, being thefirst one to be brave enough to
come here.
Really do appreciate it, andwe'll look forward to having you
back in the coming days.
(44:48):
Thanks for having me.
Thank you for joining us foranother episode of Behind the
Business, proudly presented byGore Mutual, insurance that does
good.
New episodes drop everyThursday, so be sure to tune in
next week.
You can also visit greaterkwchamber.com to catch up on
past episodes anytime.
We'll see you next time as wecontinue to go behind the
(45:10):
business.
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