April 11, 2025 • 28 mins
In this deeply emotional and controversial episode of Behind The Mike Podcast, host Mike Stone sits down with Jeff Younger, the Texas father whose battle to protect his son from gender transition has captured national attention.
Jeff shares the harrowing story of his ex-wife beginning the process of transitioning their son at age two, the legal war that followed, and how his Christian faith has guided every decision—even when faced with prison for refusing to pay for what California courts define as "medical child support."
👉 Learn how Jeff took on Texas and California court systems
👉 Hear the truth behind child gender clinics and the billion-dollar transgender industry
👉 Discover the Christian worldview Jeff stands on, and how believers can respond in love and truth
📢 This is more than politics—this is about protecting children, standing for truth, and honoring God.
🔔 Don’t forget to LIKE, SUBSCRIBE, and SHARE this important conversation.
🎙️ For more interviews grounded in truth and hope:
   https://BehindTheMikePodcast.com
⏱️ CHAPTERS:
00:00 - Jeff Younger’s Introduction
00:25 - Legal Battle Begins: Divorce and Custody Fight
01:24 - Victory in Texas Court & Medical Protection Order
02:05 - Losing Custody & Son Moved to California
02:24 - Secret Trials and Judge Mark Juhas’ Ruling
03:02 - Financial Cost of the Fight & Upcoming Appeal
03:25 - Why Jeff Refused to Pay Child Support
04:18 - Kaiser Hospital Transcript: “Harvesting Sperm”
05:04 - Jeff’s 3 Biblical Principles
05:13 - Facing Prison for His Beliefs
05:37 - The Political Side: Donor Class and GOP Hypocrisy
07:21 - Legal Loopholes in Transgender & Abortion Laws
08:44 - Reclaiming Christian Culture
10:11 - Trump’s Executive Order on Trans Procedures
11:19 - Financial Incentives Driving Transgender Clinics
12:00 - A Planned Attack on Conservative Families?
12:26 - Elon Musk’s Personal Connection to the Issue
13:24 - Why Christians Must Stay Politically Engaged
13:40 - How It All Began: Sons Were Just 2.5 Years Old
14:05 - Jeff’s Past: A Libertarian Fighting for Fairness
15:15 - Jeff’s Stance on LGBT Rights & Government Abuse
17:00 - What It Means to Love as a Christian
18:44 - Rebuking Sin Is an Act of Love
20:00 - Unique Ways People Need to Be Reached
21:21 - Clarifying Jeff’s True Motivation: His Sons
22:15 - Protecting His Sons & Leaving a Public Record
23:05 - What’s Happening with Jude and James Now
24:06 - Why Jeff Refuses Supervised Visitations
25:34 - Stories of Bonding: Jonny Quest & Fatherhood
27:10 - The Golden Rule & Raising Boys with Values
27
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
My name is Jeff Younger.
(00:01):
Starting at two years old,my ex-wife began
to try to transitionmy son to a girl.
When I refusedto allow her to do that,
she filed for divorce.
We went through a longtenure battle
in the State of Texas.
She was able to mustermore political power
in the State of Texas than I wasand was able
to take my children,and move them to California,
(00:21):
where she chemicallycastrated my sons.
I've been fighting continuously.
I've been up to the TexasSupreme Court.
I got laws passed in Texasoutlawing these procedures.
Currently in California,the position of the courts
is that I have to payfor the castration of my own son
as medical child support.
I'm refusing to do that.
(00:41):
And I am right nowI'm looking at two
years in prison.
Jeff, thank you forjoining us today.
Your story has beenall over the news the last,
I don't know how many years.
(01:02):
And currently, if I, if I'mcorrect, currently,
we're in a situationwhere you say you're going
to be put in jail by the stateof California for not paying
child support.
That's right.
I'm sure that's being plasteredall over liberal news,
without the full story.
So I would like you to sharewhere we're at right now
with your story.
And then we'll back upand talk about
(01:22):
some of the details of it.
Well, you know,I won a trial in 2019.
I got 50, 50 custodyand no child support.
But most importantly,I got a check on all
medical procedures.
Because the medical records showthat my ex-wife and the boy's
pediatrician in FlowerMound, Texas.
Her name is DoctorJennifer Pape At 18 and under MD
(01:42):
in Flower Mound.
They plan to chemically castrateJames at age 8 or 9.
I was able to get laws passed inthe State of Texas outlawing
those procedures.
So eventuallywhat they did is the the
and we can talk about thishow the family courts
create orders that fatherscan't follow.
And then they usethe fact that you're
not following the ordersto take your kids.
(02:04):
And that's what they did to me.
And then they allowed my ex-wifeto move to California,
where these proceduresare legal, because I had
protected my sons by making itillegal in Texas,
I went all the wayup to the Texas Supreme Court
and the Texas Supreme Court,supposedly conservative,
allowed my sonto move to California to be
chemically castrated.
And then last December, he waschemically castrated.
(02:24):
The judge in California is MarkJuhas, Judge Mark Juhas,
Department 63 in LA CountySuperior Court.
He's the one thatmade that ruling.
They denied me all due process.
We had a secret trial.
Public was not allowed to see itbecause the judge committed
felonies on the bench.
They don't wantthe public to see it.
(02:45):
The records are sealed.
That's illegal in California.
I was not allowed an independentmedical exam.
Independent psychological exam.
I was not allowed any evidencefrom the other side.
So now I'm going up on appealin California, where I fully
expect to lose.
Then I'm going to goto the California Supreme Court,
where I fully expect to lose.
And then after spendinganother million dollars,
I've already spent 1.6 million.
(03:06):
After spending anothermillion dollars
to get to the CaliforniaSupreme Court,
I'm going to have to gointo federal court
and spend anothermillion dollars
in order to try to getsome relief for my children.
Wow.
And currently, thelaw in California
is that I have to payfor medical procedures
for my children.
And California considerschemical castration
(03:29):
and physical castrationof children as medical care.
So, I'm I stop payingchild support.
About a year ago,nine months ago, I guess,
and that happened when I lookedin the Kaiser
Permanente records,when my son had
his gender evaluation at LAChildren's Hospital.
(03:50):
And here's this.
These are in direct quotes.
These are quoted from arecorded transcript in their
official medical records.
So the doctor asked my son,do you want to have children
later in life?
My son James said, yes,which is very unusual.
Apparently for a child his agehe is interested in
having children.
The doctor then explains to himthat when they
(04:10):
remove his testicles,they can cut his testicles open
and harvest his sperm,and he can have a baby
as a woman later in life.
At that point, I stop payingchild support
because I said I can't.
I can't give any resourceswhatsoever to support this.
I had three principles when,when all this began that I
set for myself that I feltwere based on the laws of God.
(04:32):
The first one was Iwould never harm my son.
The second one was I wouldnever morally educate my son.
And the third wasI would never allow my resources
to be used to harm my son.
And I believe this violatesall three of those.
So I am not going to participatein harming my son.
(04:53):
And so they're going toultimately, put me in prison.
It's a felony.
And it's also a federal felony.
I could go to federal prisonif they choose to prosecute me
at the federal level.
But in any case,I'm not going to do it.
And just like I have and obeythe legal gag orders,
you can't force meto violate my conscience
and hurt my son.
Yeah, that's right,that's right.
(05:15):
Jeff, you are openlya Christian,
a Christ follower. Yes.
And that thatplays into this the
the moral side of this,this is a very
controversial topic.
It's a very polarized.
So you're fightingagainst that too.
And clearly what,just what you've told us
about the judge and,and some of the things
that you've dealt with,you had the support of Texas
Governor Greg Abbott.
(05:37):
But that wasn't enough in Texas.
No, I'm not sureI had his support.
Listen, the what's goingon in the Republican Party
is we have an extremelyfar left donor class for the
Republican Party, and we have anextremely conservative
voting class.
So there's alwaysthis kind of civil war
(06:00):
in the Republican Partyabout this.
So, for example,the people think
the transgender movementwas funded and started
by liberal Democrats,right? That's not true.
It was started by Republicans.
Let me say that again.
The transgender movementwas started
by liberal Republicans.
The man who started the firstmovement for this was a guy
(06:21):
named Paul Singer.
He's a hedge fund billionaire.
He's the largest donorto the Republican Party.
He's the largest, out of statedonor to Texas Republicans.
And he founded the HumanRights Campaign,
which is the largestand most powerful LGBT
lobby group in that world.
Absolutely.
In the world. Yeah.
The Adelson family, who fundsalmost entirely funds
(06:44):
the RepublicanNational Committee,
were funding drag queenstory hours in libraries
and things like thisall over the country,
and have been promotingdrag queens in their casinos.
So what you havehere is a situation
where you havethese liberal donors
that give out lots of money,and the reality is
(07:04):
you can't get electedwithout lots of money.
So put yourselfin the position of,
say, a Texas legislator.
You have to pleasea liberal donor
and simultaneously pleasea conservative
voting, electorate.
How do you do that?
Here's the way it works.
I've seen it from the inside.
(07:25):
What they do is they pass lawsthat look conservative
and placate, their votingconstituents, their conservative
voting constituencies,but they leave loopholes
which please their donors.
Yeah.
So let me give you an example.
Outside of thetransgender issue,
let's look at abortion.
A lot of people think in Texasthat we've outlawed abortion.
We haven't stoppeda single abortion
(07:45):
in the State of Texas.
So what we did is we outlawedthe medical procedure
by a doctor of abortion,but it's still perfectly legal
for a mother to take an abortionpill and kill her baby
because it's not being doneby a doctor.
So what the Texaslegislators do then is they
go to the electorate and say,do you see
how conservative I am?
(08:06):
We outlawed abortion.
Then they go to the donorclass and say, see, we didn't
stop any abortions.
We left a loophole.
So give me millions of dollarsso I can get elected next year.
That's the game they play.
That's why the federal Congresscan pass all these border,
all this border legislationand everything and never has
any effect.
Right?
No, no, nothing ever hasany effect.
They leave loopholesfor liberals.
(08:28):
So what we're goingto have to do if we're serious
about this transgender issue,if we're serious
about reclaiming,a Christian culture,
is we're going to have to defeatthe liberal donor class of the
Republican Party.
And that's the battlein the GOP ahead for us.
Yeah, I think we've allseen that, if if we are
conservative, we have all seenhow money really does talk
(08:51):
when it comesto politics especially.
Yeah.
I was surprised when I read thisin your bio.
I was very surprisedthat we had such strong, I mean,
huge liberalbacking for the trans.
Oh, yeah.
But the agenda there,I mean, it's no,
I mean, if you go every RNC,they put a transvestite
up on stage to talk.
(09:12):
Yeah.
They put a trans personat the RNC convention.
They put transpeople up to talk to us
and tell us abouthow great it is
to be conservative.
I mean that's, that should tellyou something.
Yeah. Yeah.
And I think that's reallywhat you're up against
right now. Yeah.
So the started as you a battlebetween you and your wife. Yes.
Her saying, you know,which I want to get to,
(09:34):
I want to talk about James.
But but you guys kind ofbattling on this
moral issue, this, thisbiblical issue for you?
But now you're battlingagainst this huge system
that you are trying to,create awareness
for so that those of uswho are sitting on the sidelines
that don't havethis direct impact,
(09:56):
you know, it's not directlyimpacting us
that we can understandbecause it goes so much deeper
than just the surface,like you're talking about.
Trump is in office right now.
I just wanted to get your,opinion on is that is that going
to help you at all in any wayor the movement in itself?
It's already helped me.
He's the first elected officialthat's ever actually kept
a promise to me.
(10:17):
His staff promised me thatwithin one month,
they would passan executive order banning these
procedures.
And he did itin the third week. Yeah.
That, what that did is,it prohibited
federal reimbursementsto hospitals that do
these procedures.
I don't thinka lot of people know that once
you get kids into the pipelineon this gender pipeline
(10:39):
and these gender clinics,they become a $4.5
million lifetime income stream,to the gender clinics.
So imagineif you have 5000 kids,
you have just a massively hugebillion dollar
income stream, right?
So that's what's that'swhat's really going on here.
They want to put these kidsinto these and the drugs
(11:00):
that they use.
The puberty blockingdrugs are among the most
expensive drugs in the world.
While of course, sothe hospitals
can't afford to do thiswithout federal reimbursements.
And those federal reimbursementswere put in place by Obama,
specifically to push thetrans agenda.
So our enemies are extremelyadept at doing that.
They they create in the economythrough regulation laws,
(11:25):
insurance regulations,things like that.
They create,financial incentives
to do the wrong thing.
Yeah.
And long ago and, in Obama'sadministration, he created
financial incentivesto trans kids.
And that's why it's happening.
I mean, it's no accident.
I mean, just look, in two years,you had$100 million
(11:46):
gender clinics sprouting upin all 50 states.
I mean, you don't get capitallike that out of nowhere.
Okay, so this is athis is a deeply planned attack,
on conservative families,especially suburban families.
And it was an attemptto break up the voting
cohesion of the middle class.
(12:07):
You know, right now,I brought up Trump.
I'm going to bring up one morethat's under
a lot of heat right now,and that's Elon Musk.
And he's going throughand he's cleaning house.
With stuff I would imagine.
This is this is on his plate toois the stuff that we're funding,
that we have no businessfunding as taxpayers.
Yeah.
You may not know this, but ElonMusk, had a son, who was trans
(12:31):
by one of ElonMusk's ex-girlfriends.
And Elon Musk has saidhe was totally alienated
from me.
And my son is dead now from thetransgender issue.
Wow.
And that was Grimes,you know, that
he had a child with.
Yeah.
And, so Elon Musk has beendirectly touched
with this issue, and he'sdefinitely on our side
(12:53):
when it comes to the transition.
Wow.
Well, for those of youlistening, you know,
we don't often talk aboutpolitics on here, but this is a
perfect example of whyChristians need to be aware of
what's going onin our government
and politics. Yes.
It is so importantbecause if we don't
take a stand, this stuffkind of continues.
And and as yousaid, Jeff, you know,
(13:15):
things are happeningunder the surface
that most of us don't knowabout, and it's
setting up agendas for thingsthat later down the road,
we need to be aware of that.
And we need to stand upas believers and, and,
and take a stand for familieslike, Jeff's, let's go back
and talk about the beginningof this issue,
because this goes back to whatwhen did this actually begin
(13:37):
the the issue betweenyou and your wife
and this transgender trans.
My sons were twoand a half years old, and, she's
she startedtrying to transition.
And while we'restill married. Wow.
Is this to you?
I know peopleare going to ask this.
Is this to you about Lgbtq+?
Are you just are you justopposed to that agenda?
(13:58):
And this is your way of ofsticking your flag in the ground
and saying, I'm going tobattle against it.
So here's somethinga lot of people
don't know about me.
So my youth, I was araging libertarian before
I was a conservative.
And, I volunteeredto go in the Army.
I was trained, I was qualifiedas a U.S.
Army infantryman.
(14:18):
I went to the airborne school.
I was headed to the first RangerBattalion.
At the airborne school.
I got wind that a gay manhad been discharged and given
a dishonorable dischargefor off base sexual activity.
Now, I believe the officer corpscan throw anybody
out of the military for anyreason whatsoever.
If it enhancesforce effectiveness,
(14:40):
there's literally no reasonthat they can't throw people out
or bring people in onany criteria whatsoever.
I don't care if it's racialor anything.
I think any reasonthat makes it better,
they can do it. Yeah.
However, they gave this man adishonorable discharge,
which is a discharge that isgenerally reserved
for the murder of noncombatantsand rape of noncombatants. Wow.
(15:04):
And it's been cowardicein battle.
And it's an appropriatedischarge for those reasons.
A dishonorable dischargeis way worse
than a federal felonyconviction.
You cannot rent an apartment.
You cannot get a mortgagebecause the government
will not insure your mortgage.
You can you cannot haveany licensure in any state
(15:24):
for the rest of your life.
You can never possess a firearm.
You're never allowed to vote.
You basically can't do anythingbut become homeless.
And then once you have adishonorable discharge,
you're done in America.
And it's an appropriatepunishment.
Actually, it'sa form of banishment
for cowardice in battle.
I approve of it, sure.
However, I don't thinkit's appropriate for off
base sexual activity.
(15:45):
So actually,let a protest off base,
about it.
In my raging libertarian daysand, I was punished.
I was given hard labor.
I was imprisoned at hard laborfor doing that protest.
And ultimatelythat led to my discharge
from the Army.
So I don't agree with the gayagenda whatsoever.
(16:06):
I don't believe in gay marriage.
I don't believe, I don't evenbelieve that
being gay is a status.
I think it's a behavior,not a status.
So you can't attachrights to it at all.
So I'm totally not on boardwith the gay agenda
or the LGBT agenda,but I also don't believe
the governmentshould mistreat anyone, anyone.
(16:26):
And I'm not going to allowthe government
to mistreat anyone.
So yeah, you know,you could say I am.
Am I justagainst the LGBT agenda?
Yeah, and for good reasons.
But that doesn't meanI want the government
to mistreat anyone.
And when I ranfor office in Texas, I'd have
all these people show upand call me a transphobic,
a gay vote.
And I would justask them a question.
(16:47):
I went to prison at hard laborto stand up for fairness
for a gay person.
Have you done there?
Well, then shut up.
Yeah.
Is that your stance today? Yes.
Okay. I'm against.
I think gay marriage should berepealed.
I think, the SupremeCourt decisions that established
(17:08):
being gay and trans as protectedclasses are absurd because these
are behaviors,and you can't attach
rights to behaviors.
That doesn'teven make sense. Yeah.
So I completely, want to doall that stuff,
but at the same time,I don't want, I want,
I don't want the governmentto abuse anyone. Yeah.
I think that'sa reasonable stance.
And I think it'sthe conservative stance.
(17:28):
And you've kind of answeredthis question,
but I want to ask youanother, another thing
that has probably beenthrown out of you
as a Christian.
Aren't we supposed tolove everyone,
including including the transand the LGBTQ community?
Yeah, but but here'sthe thing. We.
You're 100% right.
We should love everyone.
I do love trans people.
(17:49):
They're trans peoplethat I'm in contact
with all the time because theydon't support trans and kids.
I have to work with them.
If we havecommon cause to protect
kids, I'll workwith anybody. Sure.
But let's talkabout what love is.
You know, if you read the Bible,there's three words for love
that are used.
Remember when when Jesus askedPeter, Peter, do you love me?
And he says, well,of course I love you.
(18:11):
And then he says, Peter,do you love me?
And Peter saysof course I love you.
And then Jesus says,do you love me?
And Peter says, yes.
And he has tears in his eyes.
He says, then feed my sheep.
If you read itin the Greek, he's
using different wordsfor love every time.
You won't understandthat passage unless you see the
the difference is there.
The kind of love that we'resupposed to have for everyone
(18:33):
is called agape.
And that means the kind of lovewhere you want people
to get throughthe trials of this life,
and to deal with the deceiverin this life in such a way
that you make it to heaven.
We want everybodyto get to heaven
if they can, right?
Right.
If they choose to go to heaven,you can choose not to, I guess.
But if you chooseto go to heaven, we want you to
take to get there.
(18:53):
That's the kind of lovethat Christians should have
for everyone.
And that kind of loveoften requires
that we rebuke sin.
Yeah.
And I think we forget this,that rebuking sinners
is a good work.
Rebuking sinners is good.
And by the way,if you have friends that will
(19:13):
rebuke your sin and put you backon the straight path,
you better keep those friends.
Absolutely.
Because in the modern world,most friends won't.
Don't loveyou enough to do that.
You know they don't careenough about you
to get to heaven to do that.
They don't want to be.
They don't want to offend you,right?
But your real friends want youto get to heaven.
By the way, that's whata marriage is.
A marriage is a partnershipbetween two people
(19:35):
who decide to goto heaven together.
Yeah, that's right.
And it requiresthe rebuking of sin.
And we have forgot thisfor some reason.
I don't think it's I think it'sactually been a
a deliberate plan to subvertthe meaning of the word love.
Oh, I agree.
From to to mean somethingmore like Fidelio in the Greek
rather than agape in the Greek.
(19:57):
The friendshipthat you might have
for an acquaintanceor business acquaintance
or something.
That's a completely differentkind of love than the love
for someone that you want themto get to heaven, and you have
to rebuke sinnersin your community,
or you're going to havea community
that essentially createsthe conditions for most people
(20:17):
to go to hell.
True love is putting peopleon the right path
and helping them repent.
And by the way, that doesn'talways mean, you know, I'm a
I have moreof a medical metaphor
for the church rather than alegal metaphor.
And, you know, not allmedicines are good
for everybody.
(20:38):
Everybody hasdifferent illnesses
that cause them to sin.
So for some people,a stern talking to
is what they need.
For some people, quietlysetting the example
is what they needfor other people.
It's better for themto be pointed to Bible verses
or to written treatises.
Some peop,some people just need.
(20:58):
You just need to like,hang out with them
and make sure they don'tget into problems.
Some people just need that.
Everybody needs differentkinds of, rebukes.
Right?
And when we say rebuke,it's taken on a
modern term of like, you know,wagging your finger
in somebody's face.
That's not what it means.
It means to helpsomebody repent.
And everybody has adifferent medicine.
(21:19):
They need to help them repent.
That's good.
Yeah.
I wanted to makethat clarifying point
because I know that there arepeople out there
who have been followingyour story for years and,
and like you said,they've, they've called
you many names and they, they'vecome up against you from many
different angles.
But I want to set that recordclear that, this is not about
(21:40):
this is about your son.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Tell me, why are you doing this?
What is this?
Why is this so important to youthat you spent so much money
and so much time, you know,to make this happen?
Well, there's two reasons.
One, you know, my son deservesmy protection, and, he deserves
all my resources to protect him.
(22:00):
And he's going to get him.
He's going to getall my resources, all my time
to protect him.
The second thing is,I wanted to leave,
a large public recordso that the courts
and my ex-wifecould not tell my sons
that I had abandoned them.
I have not abandoned my sons.
And there's absolutely no wayfor them to say I have.
I mean, she's probablytelling them that. Sure.
(22:22):
But the reality is, my sonscan get on the internet
and there's a massivepublic record that I want to be
with my sons.
I love my sons.
I'm proud of my sons,and there's no way for them
to suppress that.
Those are the tworeasons I do what? Wow.
Well, we we definitelywill be praying for this.
I think, you know, as aas it continues, because it's
not over and, we I want tothank you for taking the stand.
(22:46):
It's it's got to be a hard,hard road.
I love why you're doing it.
And, I knowthere's a lot of people
watching and listening that'll.
It'll feel the same way.
So I'm going to ask youat the end how we can support
what you're doing.
Let's talk about your kids.
Because you have two sons. Yeah.
You know, we we hear a lotabout James, but you also have,
Jude, correct?
Yes. Yeah.
Named after brothers of Jesus.
(23:07):
James and Jude.
Yeah.
Yeah, I like that.
Tell us that story.
What's that like for you?
What's your relationshiplike with your sons right now?
I don't have a relationshipwith my sons.
They, have given mesupervised visitation
with transgender supervisorswho will not let me use
(23:27):
my son's true name.
They, force me to use pronounsand all kinds of stuff.
So, I'm not going to you.
I'm not going to supervisevisitations.
This is very controversialto a lot of
a lot of conservativeswho say I should go
to supervised visitations,but I think, it would set
a couple things.
One, I did two supervisedvisitations just to confirm
(23:51):
my beliefs about it.
It does, confirm in a child'smind that something's
wrong with you because you haveto have somebody
watching over you.
That's number one. Yeah.
And number two, it forces me todeal with my son in a way
that I'm unwillingto deal with them.
So my relationship with my sonshas always been extremely,
extremely close.
(24:12):
I was a highly involved father.
I actually movedmy business into my home
so it could be with my sons24 hours a day.
We even during the, the divorce,you know, me and my sons
were very close.
If I had todescribe them to you,
probably the best way isthrough a story.
(24:34):
You know, I could not understandmodern cartoons.
I just watch them.
I don't even understand.
I don't thinkI can find the plot of
what's going on.
So I went back to stuffI watched,
and I like Jonny Questwhen I was a kid, and I was.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
So I got the Jonny Quest DVDsand we watched these
Jonny Quest and,you know, they're
they're really fun because like,people are shooting real guns,
(24:56):
you know, and and they'rereal adventures
with real things. And so my sonsreally love them.
And one day they were,they were about, two and a half.
This is a rightbefore she started trying to
transition, James,we were watching one of their
favorite episodes called TheInvisible Monster.
And this monster is chasingthis little dog named bandit.
(25:18):
And, James is sayingthings like,
oh, well, don't worry,Bandit's fast enough,
and Johnny's there.
He's going to grab themout of the way.
I don't think that's going tobe a problem.
And Judith's saying,why is bandit so scared?
Johnny is really worriedabout that.
That monster is so angryhe has no reason to be,
and I was.
I realized that Jud was livingthe inner life
(25:39):
of the characters,and James was living
the outer lifeof the characters.
And that was a keyinsight for me about
how to raise them.
And so, I saw very earlythat I had two boys who had very
different orientationsto the world, you know,
and it shows up physically.
James is a very talented stickand move boxer.
(26:02):
I mean, he hadOlympic talent scouts
looking at him.
Wow.
Jud is a very heavyset,flat footed wrestler.
And, he would make a greatoffensive guard.
And so you can imaginehow much fun it was
playing around the house.
You got these twototally physically
mismatched kids and, you know,and I raised my kids the way.
(26:24):
The way I was raised on a farm,you know, like, like,
I don't have rules for my house.
You know, that was oneof the things
they tried to pin on meall the time.
You're an authoritarian parent.
That's a standard thingthey do to men in family court.
So they would say, tell me aboutall the rules your father
has at house.
The counselors would askand my sons would say,
oh, dad doesn't have rules.
(26:44):
He says, we should just followthe Golden Rule
and be reasonable with people.
And that's how I raised.
I only had to make onerule the whole time.
Yeah.
They left iPads on the floorand stepped on them twice.
So we said, well, we'regonna have to have a rule.
Keep them on tables.
But by and large, I told him,you know, like, you know, you
your room doesn't have to beperfectly clean.
(27:04):
It just should never riseto anyone's attention.
We have theno mistakes principle.
If you break a glass,but you sweep it up
and take care of itand put everything away, it's
not a mistake.
If you fix.
It's not to stay.
Take every risk you want.
Because aslong as you can fix it,
it's not a mistake.
So take risks, feel free.
And, And that's theway I raised my sons.
(27:26):
With with regard to values,it's probably best, you know,
probably best describesthat with, couple,
a couple of observationsfrom the boxing gym.
Well, we're going to takea break here, and we'll
when we come back,you're going to hear
a great story, about lessonslearned in the boxing ring
with dad Jeff Younger.
(27:46):
And, so make sure you come backfor part two and we will
talk to you soon.
My name is Jeff Younger.
(00:01):
Starting at two years old,my ex-wife began
to try to transitionmy son to a girl.
When I refusedto allow her to do that,
she filed for divorce.
We went through a longtenure battle
in the State of Texas.
She was able to mustermore political power
in the State of Texas than I wasand was able
to take my children,and move them to California,
(00:21):
where she chemicallycastrated my sons.
I've been fighting continuously.
I've been up to the TexasSupreme Court.
I got laws passed in Texasoutlawing these procedures.
Currently in California,the position of the courts
is that I have to payfor the castration of my own son
as medical child support.
I'm refusing to do that.
(00:41):
And I am right nowI'm looking at two
years in prison.
Jeff, thank you forjoining us today.
Your story has beenall over the news the last,
I don't know how many years.
(01:02):
And currently, if I, if I'mcorrect, currently,
we're in a situationwhere you say you're going
to be put in jail by the stateof California for not paying
child support.
That's right.
I'm sure that's being plasteredall over liberal news,
without the full story.
So I would like you to sharewhere we're at right now
with your story.
And then we'll back upand talk about
(01:22):
some of the details of it.
Well, you know,I won a trial in 2019.
I got 50, 50 custodyand no child support.
But most importantly,I got a check on all
medical procedures.
Because the medical records showthat my ex-wife and the boy's
pediatrician in FlowerMound, Texas.
Her name is DoctorJennifer Pape At 18 and under MD
(01:42):
in Flower Mound.
They plan to chemically castrateJames at age 8 or 9.
I was able to get laws passed inthe State of Texas outlawing
those procedures.
So eventuallywhat they did is the the
and we can talk about thishow the family courts
create orders that fatherscan't follow.
And then they usethe fact that you're
not following the ordersto take your kids.
(02:04):
And that's what they did to me.
And then they allowed my ex-wifeto move to California,
where these proceduresare legal, because I had
protected my sons by making itillegal in Texas,
I went all the wayup to the Texas Supreme Court
and the Texas Supreme Court,supposedly conservative,
allowed my sonto move to California to be
chemically castrated.
And then last December, he waschemically castrated.
(02:24):
The judge in California is MarkJuhas, Judge Mark Juhas,
Department 63 in LA CountySuperior Court.
He's the one thatmade that ruling.
They denied me all due process.
We had a secret trial.
Public was not allowed to see itbecause the judge committed
felonies on the bench.
They don't wantthe public to see it.
(02:45):
The records are sealed.
That's illegal in California.
I was not allowed an independentmedical exam.
Independent psychological exam.
I was not allowed any evidencefrom the other side.
So now I'm going up on appealin California, where I fully
expect to lose.
Then I'm going to goto the California Supreme Court,
where I fully expect to lose.
And then after spendinganother million dollars,
I've already spent 1.6 million.
(03:06):
After spending anothermillion dollars
to get to the CaliforniaSupreme Court,
I'm going to have to gointo federal court
and spend anothermillion dollars
in order to try to getsome relief for my children.
Wow.
And currently, thelaw in California
is that I have to payfor medical procedures
for my children.
And California considerschemical castration
(03:29):
and physical castrationof children as medical care.
So, I'm I stop payingchild support.
About a year ago,nine months ago, I guess,
and that happened when I lookedin the Kaiser
Permanente records,when my son had
his gender evaluation at LAChildren's Hospital.
(03:50):
And here's this.
These are in direct quotes.
These are quoted from arecorded transcript in their
official medical records.
So the doctor asked my son,do you want to have children
later in life?
My son James said, yes,which is very unusual.
Apparently for a child his agehe is interested in
having children.
The doctor then explains to himthat when they
(04:10):
remove his testicles,they can cut his testicles open
and harvest his sperm,and he can have a baby
as a woman later in life.
At that point, I stop payingchild support
because I said I can't.
I can't give any resourceswhatsoever to support this.
I had three principles when,when all this began that I
set for myself that I feltwere based on the laws of God.
(04:32):
The first one was Iwould never harm my son.
The second one was I wouldnever morally educate my son.
And the third wasI would never allow my resources
to be used to harm my son.
And I believe this violatesall three of those.
So I am not going to participatein harming my son.
(04:53):
And so they're going toultimately, put me in prison.
It's a felony.
And it's also a federal felony.
I could go to federal prisonif they choose to prosecute me
at the federal level.
But in any case,I'm not going to do it.
And just like I have and obeythe legal gag orders,
you can't force meto violate my conscience
and hurt my son.
Yeah, that's right,that's right.
(05:15):
Jeff, you are openlya Christian,
a Christ follower. Yes.
And that thatplays into this the
the moral side of this,this is a very
controversial topic.
It's a very polarized.
So you're fightingagainst that too.
And clearly what,just what you've told us
about the judge and,and some of the things
that you've dealt with,you had the support of Texas
Governor Greg Abbott.
(05:37):
But that wasn't enough in Texas.
No, I'm not sureI had his support.
Listen, the what's goingon in the Republican Party
is we have an extremelyfar left donor class for the
Republican Party, and we have anextremely conservative
voting class.
So there's alwaysthis kind of civil war
(06:00):
in the Republican Partyabout this.
So, for example,the people think
the transgender movementwas funded and started
by liberal Democrats,right? That's not true.
It was started by Republicans.
Let me say that again.
The transgender movementwas started
by liberal Republicans.
The man who started the firstmovement for this was a guy
(06:21):
named Paul Singer.
He's a hedge fund billionaire.
He's the largest donorto the Republican Party.
He's the largest, out of statedonor to Texas Republicans.
And he founded the HumanRights Campaign,
which is the largestand most powerful LGBT
lobby group in that world.
Absolutely.
In the world. Yeah.
The Adelson family, who fundsalmost entirely funds
(06:44):
the RepublicanNational Committee,
were funding drag queenstory hours in libraries
and things like thisall over the country,
and have been promotingdrag queens in their casinos.
So what you havehere is a situation
where you havethese liberal donors
that give out lots of money,and the reality is
(07:04):
you can't get electedwithout lots of money.
So put yourselfin the position of,
say, a Texas legislator.
You have to pleasea liberal donor
and simultaneously pleasea conservative
voting, electorate.
How do you do that?
Here's the way it works.
I've seen it from the inside.
(07:25):
What they do is they pass lawsthat look conservative
and placate, their votingconstituents, their conservative
voting constituencies,but they leave loopholes
which please their donors.
Yeah.
So let me give you an example.
Outside of thetransgender issue,
let's look at abortion.
A lot of people think in Texasthat we've outlawed abortion.
We haven't stoppeda single abortion
(07:45):
in the State of Texas.
So what we did is we outlawedthe medical procedure
by a doctor of abortion,but it's still perfectly legal
for a mother to take an abortionpill and kill her baby
because it's not being doneby a doctor.
So what the Texaslegislators do then is they
go to the electorate and say,do you see
how conservative I am?
(08:06):
We outlawed abortion.
Then they go to the donorclass and say, see, we didn't
stop any abortions.
We left a loophole.
So give me millions of dollarsso I can get elected next year.
That's the game they play.
That's why the federal Congresscan pass all these border,
all this border legislationand everything and never has
any effect.
Right?
No, no, nothing ever hasany effect.
They leave loopholesfor liberals.
(08:28):
So what we're goingto have to do if we're serious
about this transgender issue,if we're serious
about reclaiming,a Christian culture,
is we're going to have to defeatthe liberal donor class of the
Republican Party.
And that's the battlein the GOP ahead for us.
Yeah, I think we've allseen that, if if we are
conservative, we have all seenhow money really does talk
(08:51):
when it comesto politics especially.
Yeah.
I was surprised when I read thisin your bio.
I was very surprisedthat we had such strong, I mean,
huge liberalbacking for the trans.
Oh, yeah.
But the agenda there,I mean, it's no,
I mean, if you go every RNC,they put a transvestite
up on stage to talk.
(09:12):
Yeah.
They put a trans personat the RNC convention.
They put transpeople up to talk to us
and tell us abouthow great it is
to be conservative.
I mean that's, that should tellyou something.
Yeah. Yeah.
And I think that's reallywhat you're up against
right now. Yeah.
So the started as you a battlebetween you and your wife. Yes.
Her saying, you know,which I want to get to,
(09:34):
I want to talk about James.
But but you guys kind ofbattling on this
moral issue, this, thisbiblical issue for you?
But now you're battlingagainst this huge system
that you are trying to,create awareness
for so that those of uswho are sitting on the sidelines
that don't havethis direct impact,
(09:56):
you know, it's not directlyimpacting us
that we can understandbecause it goes so much deeper
than just the surface,like you're talking about.
Trump is in office right now.
I just wanted to get your,opinion on is that is that going
to help you at all in any wayor the movement in itself?
It's already helped me.
He's the first elected officialthat's ever actually kept
a promise to me.
(10:17):
His staff promised me thatwithin one month,
they would passan executive order banning these
procedures.
And he did itin the third week. Yeah.
That, what that did is,it prohibited
federal reimbursementsto hospitals that do
these procedures.
I don't thinka lot of people know that once
you get kids into the pipelineon this gender pipeline
(10:39):
and these gender clinics,they become a $4.5
million lifetime income stream,to the gender clinics.
So imagineif you have 5000 kids,
you have just a massively hugebillion dollar
income stream, right?
So that's what's that'swhat's really going on here.
They want to put these kidsinto these and the drugs
(11:00):
that they use.
The puberty blockingdrugs are among the most
expensive drugs in the world.
While of course, sothe hospitals
can't afford to do thiswithout federal reimbursements.
And those federal reimbursementswere put in place by Obama,
specifically to push thetrans agenda.
So our enemies are extremelyadept at doing that.
They they create in the economythrough regulation laws,
(11:25):
insurance regulations,things like that.
They create,financial incentives
to do the wrong thing.
Yeah.
And long ago and, in Obama'sadministration, he created
financial incentivesto trans kids.
And that's why it's happening.
I mean, it's no accident.
I mean, just look, in two years,you had$100 million
(11:46):
gender clinics sprouting upin all 50 states.
I mean, you don't get capitallike that out of nowhere.
Okay, so this is athis is a deeply planned attack,
on conservative families,especially suburban families.
And it was an attemptto break up the voting
cohesion of the middle class.
(12:07):
You know, right now,I brought up Trump.
I'm going to bring up one morethat's under
a lot of heat right now,and that's Elon Musk.
And he's going throughand he's cleaning house.
With stuff I would imagine.
This is this is on his plate toois the stuff that we're funding,
that we have no businessfunding as taxpayers.
Yeah.
You may not know this, but ElonMusk, had a son, who was trans
(12:31):
by one of ElonMusk's ex-girlfriends.
And Elon Musk has saidhe was totally alienated
from me.
And my son is dead now from thetransgender issue.
Wow.
And that was Grimes,you know, that
he had a child with.
Yeah.
And, so Elon Musk has beendirectly touched
with this issue, and he'sdefinitely on our side
(12:53):
when it comes to the transition.
Wow.
Well, for those of youlistening, you know,
we don't often talk aboutpolitics on here, but this is a
perfect example of whyChristians need to be aware of
what's going onin our government
and politics. Yes.
It is so importantbecause if we don't
take a stand, this stuffkind of continues.
And and as yousaid, Jeff, you know,
(13:15):
things are happeningunder the surface
that most of us don't knowabout, and it's
setting up agendas for thingsthat later down the road,
we need to be aware of that.
And we need to stand upas believers and, and,
and take a stand for familieslike, Jeff's, let's go back
and talk about the beginningof this issue,
because this goes back to whatwhen did this actually begin
(13:37):
the the issue betweenyou and your wife
and this transgender trans.
My sons were twoand a half years old, and, she's
she startedtrying to transition.
And while we'restill married. Wow.
Is this to you?
I know peopleare going to ask this.
Is this to you about Lgbtq+?
Are you just are you justopposed to that agenda?
(13:58):
And this is your way of ofsticking your flag in the ground
and saying, I'm going tobattle against it.
So here's somethinga lot of people
don't know about me.
So my youth, I was araging libertarian before
I was a conservative.
And, I volunteeredto go in the Army.
I was trained, I was qualifiedas a U.S.
Army infantryman.
(14:18):
I went to the airborne school.
I was headed to the first RangerBattalion.
At the airborne school.
I got wind that a gay manhad been discharged and given
a dishonorable dischargefor off base sexual activity.
Now, I believe the officer corpscan throw anybody
out of the military for anyreason whatsoever.
If it enhancesforce effectiveness,
(14:40):
there's literally no reasonthat they can't throw people out
or bring people in onany criteria whatsoever.
I don't care if it's racialor anything.
I think any reasonthat makes it better,
they can do it. Yeah.
However, they gave this man adishonorable discharge,
which is a discharge that isgenerally reserved
for the murder of noncombatantsand rape of noncombatants. Wow.
(15:04):
And it's been cowardicein battle.
And it's an appropriatedischarge for those reasons.
A dishonorable dischargeis way worse
than a federal felonyconviction.
You cannot rent an apartment.
You cannot get a mortgagebecause the government
will not insure your mortgage.
You can you cannot haveany licensure in any state
(15:24):
for the rest of your life.
You can never possess a firearm.
You're never allowed to vote.
You basically can't do anythingbut become homeless.
And then once you have adishonorable discharge,
you're done in America.
And it's an appropriatepunishment.
Actually, it'sa form of banishment
for cowardice in battle.
I approve of it, sure.
However, I don't thinkit's appropriate for off
base sexual activity.
(15:45):
So actually,let a protest off base,
about it.
In my raging libertarian daysand, I was punished.
I was given hard labor.
I was imprisoned at hard laborfor doing that protest.
And ultimatelythat led to my discharge
from the Army.
So I don't agree with the gayagenda whatsoever.
(16:06):
I don't believe in gay marriage.
I don't believe, I don't evenbelieve that
being gay is a status.
I think it's a behavior,not a status.
So you can't attachrights to it at all.
So I'm totally not on boardwith the gay agenda
or the LGBT agenda,but I also don't believe
the governmentshould mistreat anyone, anyone.
(16:26):
And I'm not going to allowthe government
to mistreat anyone.
So yeah, you know,you could say I am.
Am I justagainst the LGBT agenda?
Yeah, and for good reasons.
But that doesn't meanI want the government
to mistreat anyone.
And when I ranfor office in Texas, I'd have
all these people show upand call me a transphobic,
a gay vote.
And I would justask them a question.
(16:47):
I went to prison at hard laborto stand up for fairness
for a gay person.
Have you done there?
Well, then shut up.
Yeah.
Is that your stance today? Yes.
Okay. I'm against.
I think gay marriage should berepealed.
I think, the SupremeCourt decisions that established
(17:08):
being gay and trans as protectedclasses are absurd because these
are behaviors,and you can't attach
rights to behaviors.
That doesn'teven make sense. Yeah.
So I completely, want to doall that stuff,
but at the same time,I don't want, I want,
I don't want the governmentto abuse anyone. Yeah.
I think that'sa reasonable stance.
And I think it'sthe conservative stance.
(17:28):
And you've kind of answeredthis question,
but I want to ask youanother, another thing
that has probably beenthrown out of you
as a Christian.
Aren't we supposed tolove everyone,
including including the transand the LGBTQ community?
Yeah, but but here'sthe thing. We.
You're 100% right.
We should love everyone.
I do love trans people.
(17:49):
They're trans peoplethat I'm in contact
with all the time because theydon't support trans and kids.
I have to work with them.
If we havecommon cause to protect
kids, I'll workwith anybody. Sure.
But let's talkabout what love is.
You know, if you read the Bible,there's three words for love
that are used.
Remember when when Jesus askedPeter, Peter, do you love me?
And he says, well,of course I love you.
(18:11):
And then he says, Peter,do you love me?
And Peter saysof course I love you.
And then Jesus says,do you love me?
And Peter says, yes.
And he has tears in his eyes.
He says, then feed my sheep.
If you read itin the Greek, he's
using different wordsfor love every time.
You won't understandthat passage unless you see the
the difference is there.
The kind of love that we'resupposed to have for everyone
(18:33):
is called agape.
And that means the kind of lovewhere you want people
to get throughthe trials of this life,
and to deal with the deceiverin this life in such a way
that you make it to heaven.
We want everybodyto get to heaven
if they can, right?
Right.
If they choose to go to heaven,you can choose not to, I guess.
But if you chooseto go to heaven, we want you to
take to get there.
(18:53):
That's the kind of lovethat Christians should have
for everyone.
And that kind of loveoften requires
that we rebuke sin.
Yeah.
And I think we forget this,that rebuking sinners
is a good work.
Rebuking sinners is good.
And by the way,if you have friends that will
(19:13):
rebuke your sin and put you backon the straight path,
you better keep those friends.
Absolutely.
Because in the modern world,most friends won't.
Don't loveyou enough to do that.
You know they don't careenough about you
to get to heaven to do that.
They don't want to be.
They don't want to offend you,right?
But your real friends want youto get to heaven.
By the way, that's whata marriage is.
A marriage is a partnershipbetween two people
(19:35):
who decide to goto heaven together.
Yeah, that's right.
And it requiresthe rebuking of sin.
And we have forgot thisfor some reason.
I don't think it's I think it'sactually been a
a deliberate plan to subvertthe meaning of the word love.
Oh, I agree.
From to to mean somethingmore like Fidelio in the Greek
rather than agape in the Greek.
(19:57):
The friendshipthat you might have
for an acquaintanceor business acquaintance
or something.
That's a completely differentkind of love than the love
for someone that you want themto get to heaven, and you have
to rebuke sinnersin your community,
or you're going to havea community
that essentially createsthe conditions for most people
(20:17):
to go to hell.
True love is putting peopleon the right path
and helping them repent.
And by the way, that doesn'talways mean, you know, I'm a
I have moreof a medical metaphor
for the church rather than alegal metaphor.
And, you know, not allmedicines are good
for everybody.
(20:38):
Everybody hasdifferent illnesses
that cause them to sin.
So for some people,a stern talking to
is what they need.
For some people, quietlysetting the example
is what they needfor other people.
It's better for themto be pointed to Bible verses
or to written treatises.
Some peop,some people just need.
(20:58):
You just need to like,hang out with them
and make sure they don'tget into problems.
Some people just need that.
Everybody needs differentkinds of, rebukes.
Right?
And when we say rebuke,it's taken on a
modern term of like, you know,wagging your finger
in somebody's face.
That's not what it means.
It means to helpsomebody repent.
And everybody has adifferent medicine.
(21:19):
They need to help them repent.
That's good.
Yeah.
I wanted to makethat clarifying point
because I know that there arepeople out there
who have been followingyour story for years and,
and like you said,they've, they've called
you many names and they, they'vecome up against you from many
different angles.
But I want to set that recordclear that, this is not about
(21:40):
this is about your son.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Tell me, why are you doing this?
What is this?
Why is this so important to youthat you spent so much money
and so much time, you know,to make this happen?
Well, there's two reasons.
One, you know, my son deservesmy protection, and, he deserves
all my resources to protect him.
(22:00):
And he's going to get him.
He's going to getall my resources, all my time
to protect him.
The second thing is,I wanted to leave,
a large public recordso that the courts
and my ex-wifecould not tell my sons
that I had abandoned them.
I have not abandoned my sons.
And there's absolutely no wayfor them to say I have.
I mean, she's probablytelling them that. Sure.
(22:22):
But the reality is, my sonscan get on the internet
and there's a massivepublic record that I want to be
with my sons.
I love my sons.
I'm proud of my sons,and there's no way for them
to suppress that.
Those are the tworeasons I do what? Wow.
Well, we we definitelywill be praying for this.
I think, you know, as aas it continues, because it's
not over and, we I want tothank you for taking the stand.
(22:46):
It's it's got to be a hard,hard road.
I love why you're doing it.
And, I knowthere's a lot of people
watching and listening that'll.
It'll feel the same way.
So I'm going to ask youat the end how we can support
what you're doing.
Let's talk about your kids.
Because you have two sons. Yeah.
You know, we we hear a lotabout James, but you also have,
Jude, correct?
Yes. Yeah.
Named after brothers of Jesus.
(23:07):
James and Jude.
Yeah.
Yeah, I like that.
Tell us that story.
What's that like for you?
What's your relationshiplike with your sons right now?
I don't have a relationshipwith my sons.
They, have given mesupervised visitation
with transgender supervisorswho will not let me use
(23:27):
my son's true name.
They, force me to use pronounsand all kinds of stuff.
So, I'm not going to you.
I'm not going to supervisevisitations.
This is very controversialto a lot of
a lot of conservativeswho say I should go
to supervised visitations,but I think, it would set
a couple things.
One, I did two supervisedvisitations just to confirm
(23:51):
my beliefs about it.
It does, confirm in a child'smind that something's
wrong with you because you haveto have somebody
watching over you.
That's number one. Yeah.
And number two, it forces me todeal with my son in a way
that I'm unwillingto deal with them.
So my relationship with my sonshas always been extremely,
extremely close.
(24:12):
I was a highly involved father.
I actually movedmy business into my home
so it could be with my sons24 hours a day.
We even during the, the divorce,you know, me and my sons
were very close.
If I had todescribe them to you,
probably the best way isthrough a story.
(24:34):
You know, I could not understandmodern cartoons.
I just watch them.
I don't even understand.
I don't thinkI can find the plot of
what's going on.
So I went back to stuffI watched,
and I like Jonny Questwhen I was a kid, and I was.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
So I got the Jonny Quest DVDsand we watched these
Jonny Quest and,you know, they're
they're really fun because like,people are shooting real guns,
(24:56):
you know, and and they'rereal adventures
with real things. And so my sonsreally love them.
And one day they were,they were about, two and a half.
This is a rightbefore she started trying to
transition, James,we were watching one of their
favorite episodes called TheInvisible Monster.
And this monster is chasingthis little dog named bandit.
(25:18):
And, James is sayingthings like,
oh, well, don't worry,Bandit's fast enough,
and Johnny's there.
He's going to grab themout of the way.
I don't think that's going tobe a problem.
And Judith's saying,why is bandit so scared?
Johnny is really worriedabout that.
That monster is so angryhe has no reason to be,
and I was.
I realized that Jud was livingthe inner life
(25:39):
of the characters,and James was living
the outer lifeof the characters.
And that was a keyinsight for me about
how to raise them.
And so, I saw very earlythat I had two boys who had very
different orientationsto the world, you know,
and it shows up physically.
James is a very talented stickand move boxer.
(26:02):
I mean, he hadOlympic talent scouts
looking at him.
Wow.
Jud is a very heavyset,flat footed wrestler.
And, he would make a greatoffensive guard.
And so you can imaginehow much fun it was
playing around the house.
You got these twototally physically
mismatched kids and, you know,and I raised my kids the way.
(26:24):
The way I was raised on a farm,you know, like, like,
I don't have rules for my house.
You know, that was oneof the things
they tried to pin on meall the time.
You're an authoritarian parent.
That's a standard thingthey do to men in family court.
So they would say, tell me aboutall the rules your father
has at house.
The counselors would askand my sons would say,
oh, dad doesn't have rules.
(26:44):
He says, we should just followthe Golden Rule
and be reasonable with people.
And that's how I raised.
I only had to make onerule the whole time.
Yeah.
They left iPads on the floorand stepped on them twice.
So we said, well, we'regonna have to have a rule.
Keep them on tables.
But by and large, I told him,you know, like, you know, you
your room doesn't have to beperfectly clean.
(27:04):
It just should never riseto anyone's attention.
We have theno mistakes principle.
If you break a glass,but you sweep it up
and take care of itand put everything away, it's
not a mistake.
If you fix.
It's not to stay.
Take every risk you want.
Because aslong as you can fix it,
it's not a mistake.
So take risks, feel free.
And, And that's theway I raised my sons.
(27:26):
With with regard to values,it's probably best, you know,
probably best describesthat with, couple,
a couple of observationsfrom the boxing gym.
Well, we're going to takea break here, and we'll
when we come back,you're going to hear
a great story, about lessonslearned in the boxing ring
with dad Jeff Younger.
(27:46):
And, so make sure you come backfor part two and we will
talk to you soon.
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