April 3, 2025 • 57 mins
In this bonus episode Brett sits down with returning guest, Renee from ItsBookTalk where we discuss some of our first quarter favs as well as revisit books we spoke about at the beginning of the year we were looking forward to.
Renee's instagram:https://www.instagram.com/itsbookstalk
Renee's substack: https://itsbooktalk.substack.com
Other accounts mentioned:
Katie @: https://https://www.instagram.com/stories/basicbsguide/
Sarah @: https://fictionmatters.substack.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Brett Benner (00:00):
Hello everybody and.
Welcome to a bonus episode thisweek of Behind the Stack, where
I am really happy to be sittingback down with my friend Renee
from its book Talk on Instagramand its book Talk and More on
her Substack, talking aboutfirst quarter faves.
(00:20):
I can't believe the firstquarter of this year is almost,
well, it is over.
Not almost.
It is over and we've survivedit.
I didn't know at times if we allwould, but we have so.
Anyway, we have some great bookswe're talking about today.
We each came with five choices,so enjoy this bonus episode of
Behind the Stack.
(00:46):
I am so glad to.
Welcome, Renee from its bookTalk and we had so much fun at
the beginning of the year, whichI can't even believe it was that
long ago already, where we weretalking about what we were
looking forward to.
We.
This year.
So today we're gonna talk aboutfirst quarter faves and what we
have loved and we, we've bothcome today with five books out
(01:08):
of the first quarter that we'veloved.
But before we get into that, Iwanted us to kind of back up and
talk about the books that youwere looking forward to this
year and see if we've coveredany of them.
How are you, by the way?
Renee (01:21):
Hello?
Hello.
I am great.
Thanks for having me back.
And hello listeners.
Yeah, super.
I I was very excited that youasked me to come back because of
course I'm, I will take anyopportunity to talk about
favorite books and stats and allthe fun good things about
(01:41):
reading.
So I'm doing great.
My reading this year, so farthis year.
Is on fire.
Oh, it's really good.
I'm really happy with what I'mreading, and I don't know if
it's pat myself on the backbecause I'm choosing just the
right books for me.
Mm-hmm.
(02:02):
Which I guess I could pat myselfon the back.
I'm just, I'm loving it.
I'm loving.
Overall, the, the books that I'mreading, there's been a few
disappointments, but for themost part I'm really happy.
Brett Benner (02:18):
Alright, so then backing up.
Do you remember what the fivebooks were that you originally
were looking forward to?
Renee (02:24):
I do now, because when you said that, I was like, what
did I, what did I say I wantedto read?
Now I stand, but of course acouple of them aren't out yet,
and I don't have a copy of oneof them.
So.
I had to remind myself, I'mlike, oh my gosh, yes, I forgot
about that book.
So anyway, I had three Wild Dogsand The Truth A Memoir by Marcus
(02:47):
Zza.
I had the Oligarch's daughter, aThriller by Joseph Fender.
I had just want you here byMeredith Turret, which is a
coming of age novel.
I had Flashlight by Susan Choithat comes out June 3rd, and I
had the catch by Ursa DaleyWard, which also comes out June
(03:11):
3rd.
Brett Benner (03:13):
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Renee (03:15):
And then do you want me to tell you which one I read, or
are we gonna Yeah, you can.
Sure, sure, sure.
It's one of my favorites so far.
It's one of my top five.
Brett Benner (03:23):
Oh wow.
Okay.
Would, can you, I wonder
Renee (03:26):
if you could guess,
Brett Benner (03:32):
name me the last one again.
Renee (03:34):
The Catch Ursa by Ursa Daily Ward.
It's hers.
No, unfortunately I don't have acopy of that one, but, okay.
I'll keep you in suspense tillwe get to our, okay.
Alright, that's good.
Favorites.
Brett Benner (03:48):
Okay.
Okay, so my, my five were agorgeous excitement by Cynthia
Weiner Penitence by KristinKoval Wild Dark Shore by
Charlotte McConaughey.
The names by Florence Knapp andthe Pretender by Joe Harkin.
(04:14):
Now.
Two of these aren't out yet,which is the names and the
pretenders, so I haven't readeither of those yet, but the
other three, I've read all ofthem.
Renee (04:24):
Good for you.
I knew you would probably sayyou've already read most of
yours.
Brett Benner (04:29):
I was, I was surprised actually, when I
looked back to see what theywere.
'cause I really didn't rememberuntil I looked up this morning
and I was like, oh, okay, good.
All right.
I've tried desperately to get acopy of the names, but to no
avail, so.
Renee (04:41):
Oh, bummer.
Brett Benner (04:42):
Well, it's been sitting in that net galley queue
forever, and so that's fine.
You can't get them all.
So,
Renee (04:48):
no, I know.
I'm waiting on the Catch TheUrsa daily Ward.
That one is in net galley.
Pending Purgatory.
Purgatory.
Brett Benner (04:59):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
So cool.
So for our first quarter phases,do you wanna go over stats
first?
Yes.
Before we get into them.
Okay, cool.
Why don't you start.
How many books did you readtotal?
So far?
Renee (05:13):
Right now I've read 24 that I've finished.
I do have a few DNFs.
Sometimes I've, I've gotten kindof far, so, but I don't count'em
in my total if ID nfd anything.
Yeah, I don't count them.
So I've got 24 total.
Brett Benner (05:29):
Okay.
And I read 32 books so far.
Now, what's your audio versusyour print?
Renee (05:38):
My audio is 50%, so that's 12 books, and my print is
three, which is actually a lotmore than I usually read in
print.
And then my digital is 38%,which is eight.
Oh, that's so
Brett Benner (05:54):
interesting.
Okay.
Because
Renee (05:54):
I read a lot.
I prefer my Kindle over print,so I'm actually trying to.
Really, I, I just prefer readingon my Kindle most of the time.
My goal, one of my goals forthis year was to significantly
decrease my audio, which I'vedone.
I used to be a 80 to 85% audio.
Brett Benner (06:16):
Wow.
Now, do you highlight on theKindle?
Renee (06:20):
Yes.
Yeah, I do highlight if, if it'ssomething, yeah.
I tend to highlight.
Insightful sentences, thingsthat I, I wanna really remember
and maybe transfer to mycommonplace notebook, which is
where I keep just beautifulquotes, inspiring things.
(06:41):
I don't highlight plot, likeplot things, or I don't
highlight anything that Iwouldn't consider like writing
that I want to keep captured.
Brett Benner (06:53):
Yeah.
Okay.
That's
Renee (06:54):
kind of how I highlight.
Okay.
Brett Benner (06:57):
It is interesting 'cause I don't have the
percentages, but I did 14, 14books on audio, so it's almost
half, which surprised me when Istarted to go through it.
The other thing I had was 18first time authors, and I say
first time authors, I should sayfirst time.
Debut authors in particular forfiction, although that's not
(07:18):
even true because one of thesepeople was nonfiction as well.
Renee (07:21):
That's awesome.
Brett Benner (07:24):
Yeah, but I only had one nonfiction.
That's it.
Which is bad.
I was gonna
Renee (07:27):
ask you about that one non,'cause my nonfiction is up,
which was one of my goals fromlast year.
I was, I ended last year withonly 9% nonfiction, which is
not, that's not.
Where I wanna be.
I want to definitely be higherwith nonfiction.
Yeah.
So right now I'm at 21%, which Ibelieve was like, I don't
(07:49):
remember what the story graphsaid.
Possibly six or sevennonfiction, maybe eight.
And then I'm at 79% fiction.
But I am happy with that and Ihave, I'm bringing.
Nonfiction favorites today, andthey have just been stellar.
I have a feeling my nonfictionthis year is gonna be my highest
(08:11):
ever.
Wow.
Wow.
Yeah.
I'm, I'm feeling it.
I'm feeling nonfiction.
Brett Benner (08:18):
I was surprised 'cause I was like, I swear to
God I read more than this, butclearly, but I clearly didn't.
So it's something I have to payattention to moving forward.
Renee (08:29):
Well, do you think it's hard.
To kind of prioritize nonfictionjust because we're so immersed
in fiction and that tends to be.
What listeners like to hear whatBookstagram Light Bookstagram
people like to see is, it's alot of fiction, I think.
What do you, do you think that,
Brett Benner (08:49):
I think you're right.
I mean, I know like Tracy at theStacks mm-hmm.
You know, really focuses onnonfiction, which I think is
amazing.
I love nonfiction, but it has tobe, I have to find it engaging
and I like happen to glance overat my books right now and I have
so much that I'm looking at,like for example, biblio Phobia
by Sarah Shaya, like I've beenreading that.
(09:12):
I started, I just haven'tfinished it yet, which I don't
know why'cause it's not eventhat long.
But I'm just looking at, I justgot the challenger.
Book that was, you know, becauseso many people have been talking
about that.
So for whatever reason, I don'tknow why, but I do, I think the
flashier stuff, especially forlike bookstagram Sure.
It's all, you know, new releasesand I think there's, and, and
(09:34):
more even leans heavily intogenre fiction than anything
else.
Um mm-hmm.
On books, Instagram with eithermysteries and thrillers or
romantic stuff seems to be likethe forefront.
Not that far, I think from booktalk.
Renee (09:48):
True.
Yeah.
Brett Benner (09:49):
So, but yeah, I, I always feel like when it gets to
nonfiction of Amber and you makea list, and it's like, it gets
about as many likes as a review.
Does IE nothing?
Renee (09:59):
I know, I know.
I had to and I love it and, andwhen I was on the podcast, I
felt like I couldn't orshouldn't bring that much
nonfiction because it, it just.
Tends to not be something that alot of people want to hear
about, which is unfortunate.
And I do, I do think that Tracydoes a great job of highlighting
(10:23):
and shouting out nonfiction andyeah, Katie and I were talking
about it because Katie lovesnonfiction and so maybe, maybe
together ever, you know, we cantry to elevate, do it, elevate
nonfiction a little bit.
I, funny story, I was at thelibrary a couple days ago doing
like a deep.
Library search in the, withinthe stacks.
(10:45):
Yeah.
And so a la I had a huge pile inmy hand and a lady.
Stopped and was like, I loveseeing other people who
obviously love to read a lot.
And we started chatting and I ofcourse, you know, asked her,
what do you like to read?
And she was naming off DeanKuntz and Michael Carita.
I'm like, I love Michael Carita.
(11:07):
Anyway, and then she was like,you know what I, I don't like at
all.
I don't like nonfiction.
And I was like, really?
Let me, but I could, I couldreally tell you some really
great nonfiction to try, butpeople just don't.
Wanna talk about non-fiction?
I
Brett Benner (11:23):
think I, I I, my take on it too is people assume
they hear it and think dry.
Yes.
And I think it it, but like, youcould find a non-fiction book
that's going to appeal to anyperson based on what their
interests are.
So if you're a thriller person,there are so many true crime
books that you can be reading.
There are
Renee (11:40):
absolutely, you know, that are
Brett Benner (11:41):
so well done.
So I do think it's, I think it,it's just like, it's when, when
people say, well, I don't liketo read.
My common response to that is.
You just haven't got the bookyet that pull you in.
I was that same
Renee (11:55):
thing that I feel like when people say they don't like
nonfiction, they just haven'tfound the right book.
Brett Benner (12:01):
Yeah.
And it just, it's, it's a littlemore concentrated because you
have to think, well, what do yougenerate towards in your normal
reading?
Are they thrillers?
Are they mystery?
You know, are they whatever?
But I guarantee you, you canfind something that.
Is gonna be compelling in thatgenre anyway.
(12:22):
Exactly.
Okay.
So should we get into our fivebooks?
Sure.
What's your first in this, inthis stellar year you've been
having?
Renee (12:33):
And you know what?
I will tell you, I'll start withthe one that was one of my five
that I told you I wanted to readback in January.
Okay.
And this is actually my topthriller.
Uh, of the year, and it's gonnabe really hard to beat.
It's the Oligarchs daughter byJoseph Fender.
(12:54):
This was the one Yeah.
About Paul Brightman, who was aman on the run.
He was living under an Naum namein a small New England town, and
he had a million dollar bountyon his head.
And one day his security isbreached and he is forced to
flee into the New Hampshirewilderness, to evade Russian
(13:16):
operatives who can seeminglypredict his every move.
Hmm.
So long story short, Paul, howdid, how did he get himself in
this situation?
Was the fact that he had marriedthe daughter of a Russian
oligarch?
And that's all I will saybecause obviously things happen
(13:39):
and you know, this is a veryfast paced thriller from start
to finish.
I could not put this down.
It is jam packed with differentthreads and subplots, but.
None of it is hard to follow,nothing.
I mean, Joseph Hender is anexperienced thriller writer.
(14:01):
I've read some of his backlist.
I mean, this one is stellar,though.
This is stellar and I, I'm notsure why I'm not seeing more
buzz about this thriller,especially among thriller
readers.
Because it's so good.
Interesting.
Brett Benner (14:18):
Now, did you did this on audio or do you No, I
read the, read this
Renee (14:21):
one on my Kindle, so I'm not sure about the audio.
I, I have had some peoplemessage me who did listen to it
and loved it.
Brett Benner (14:29):
Okay.
All right.
Great.
Renee (14:31):
So I, I think just from what they said, I, I haven't, I
haven't, I haven't had anymessages from people telling me
they didn't like this.
So it's, it's really good.
So that one's the OligarchDaughter by Joseph Fender.
Brett Benner (14:44):
All right.
I'll start with something that Iwas on my looking forward to
list.
It's so funny when I was goingthrough these and I was thinking
so much of it is like, what,when I've read stuff earlier in
the year, what is stillresonating with me?
Mm-hmm.
What do I still think about?
And this book was somewhat of asurprise to me in that the way
it's kind of sat with me,although I, I really loved it at
(15:05):
the time.
Debut.
It's a gorgeous excitement byCynthia Weiner and.
I really loved this book.
I thought it was so interesting.
Well, what it's about is it's ayoung girl in high school, well,
she's applying to colleges.
She's a senior living in NewYork City in the eighties, and
(15:26):
kind of the debauchery of.
Of New York City in the eightiesgrowing up where your parents
don't really know where you are.
Running around with your groupsof friends hanging out in
sheep's meadow, taking a lot ofdrugs, having a job.
But this girl who hangs out withthese kids who are primarily
very kind of wealthy, waspykids, and she's very crushed out
(15:46):
on the kind of charming boy, oneof the boys of the group, who is
kind of kennedyesque allAmerican.
Everything seems to be going hisway.
Well.
One of their group, one of thegirls is murdered in Central
Park and found her body is foundand it.
Seems that it's this guy, butthis doesn't happen till later.
(16:10):
It starts with a body in thepark.
But the book is based on CynthiaWeiner's own experience in New
York City growing up, and shewas in this group of friends and
one of them.
Was the preppy murderer and oh,Robert Wow.
Chambers.
And so he was her friend and hewas in this group, and so then
(16:32):
he was caught and so.
It's very loosely based on thattime and those people, but it,
it reminds me a little bit ofBrett Stellis.
It's been compared to BrightLight's Big City and I could see
that as well.
But it's such an interestingbook because.
It's a woman's perspective.
(16:54):
A young girl coming of age, alsoa Jewish girl in the midst of
this, you know, lot ofantisemitism that was existing
then.
It's a great, it's a greatdebut.
So that's my first a gorgeousexcitement.
Yeah,
Renee (17:06):
I have a copy of that, but you, I totally forgot about
it.
So.
You just sold it.
And I remember reading about thepreppy murder murderer.
Yeah, I remember that.
And that, I mean, it's notsomething I've thought about in
years, but as soon as you saidthat, I remembered it
Brett Benner (17:24):
well and I immediately looked it up.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, you know, and I had tosee what he looked like and kind
of his hold he had on all these,on all these girls.
Renee (17:33):
Oh, wow.
So, okay.
I'm gonna definitely bump thatup.
All right.
I, one of my next favorites isone of, one of my most recent
reads.
I actually read this after I didmy, my quarterly chat with
Katie.
So this was not included and I,I benched this.
(17:54):
It's a memoir.
It is Bingeable.
It's the Tell by Amy Griffin.
Okay.
I listened to the entire thingin one day.
This is about, this is obviouslyAmy's story.
It is her search for the truthto understand and begin to
recover from buried childhoodtrauma.
(18:15):
She interrogates the pursuit ofher own perfectionism.
I mean, she, she ran, she ran,she ran.
She ran.
And she never stopped to think,what am I possibly running from
something.
She was a type A control personand she really like, maintained
an appearance of looking good,very driven, just a very type a
(18:41):
perfectionist.
And one day her daughter saidsomething to her, and you know,
I don't think it's, it's not aspoiler to say that.
I think her daughter was 11 atthe time, and she said, mom.
You're nice, but we don't reallyknow you.
You're here but you're not here.
And that set her on a path of,of a, of a journey to find out
(19:09):
about more about herself.
And in doing so, found out aboutthis buried childhood trauma.
So the.
The pace of this memoir isunbelievable.
I mean, when I tell you I hadan, an AirPod in the entire day
I had to go to, this was the dayI had to go to the BMV because I
(19:32):
found, I realized thanks to apostcard in the mail that my
license expired.
And I was like, oh my God.
And I, I had to wait an hour anda half, didn't even care.
I'm like, I don't care.
I'm listening to this book.
No problem.
It was fascinating, herstorytelling ability.
(19:53):
It was, it was amazing.
It was riveting.
As someone who wasn't quite onher level of perfectionism, I, I
saw myself in a lot of.
What she described, and I thinkI'm a few years older than her,
but she grew, you know, she grewup kind of in the eighties and
(20:15):
so, mm-hmm.
There was that whole, that wholepart of it that I really
enjoyed, you know, listening toher childhood, I thought that
the way she structured thismemoir was brilliant, and I am,
I'm not gonna tell, I'm notgonna say anything else about
it.
But like I said, I was rivetedand then, and I wasn't even sure
(20:37):
I was going to read this andthe, what kind of pushed me over
into deciding I was gonna readthis was her interview with
Oprah.
Brett Benner (20:46):
Oh, okay.
And
Renee (20:46):
I do, I don't tend to listen to interviews before I
read the book.
But in this case, listening tothat interview pushed me right
into deciding to read the book.
So I, I loved it.
I loved it.
It's gonna be a favorite of theyear.
So that's the tell by AmyGriffin.
Brett Benner (21:05):
Okay, I'm gonna say this first.
I listened to this on audio.
And I loved it.
And I actually think you likedthis book too.
It's read by the author and hedoes an incredible job.
This book kind of blew me away'cause it's not even that long,
but it so surprised me.
The subject matter.
I.
Which I'll tell you in a second.
But anyway, the book is Twist byColin McCann.
(21:28):
Yes.
And I just thought this thingwas so ingenious.
But it says, A propulsive novelof rupture and repair in the
digital age, delving into ahidden world deep under the
ocean.
So it's basically about thisIrish journalist who gets
assigned to cover this.
Kind of ship captain who theirjob is to take these boats out
(21:51):
and fix under the sea are thesecable lines that.
Carry all of our data andthey're these thin like glass
tubes that are filled with fiberoptic cables.
And look, my limited knowledgethought everything was in the
(22:12):
air, right?
I thought it was all satellites,and that's the way, you know,
cell towers and satellites.
I had no idea.
These all existed in the ocean,and so one of them breaks and
they have to go repair it.
This journalist has his own kindof backstory, and there's a
whole story that starts todevelop between this man that
(22:32):
he's supposed to be covering andhis relationship with his, I
don't remember if it's wife iswho, if it's girlfriend and
she's an actress in London, andof course when these people all
go out in this.
Boat, they're on this boat untilthey find the break and fix it.
So it can be a while becauseit's not that easy.
I, I found it so incrediblyinteresting and propulsive.
(22:55):
I just thought it was great.
And again, wasn't that long.
So I was, I was riveted to theaudio, but I went out this week
and bought the, bought a copy ofthe book'cause I just thought
this thing is, is fantastic.
So it's twisted by Colin McCann.
Renee (23:09):
I second that it, I almost brought that as one of my
surprise reads.
Mm-hmm.
I agree with everything yousaid.
And also the author just killedthe narration.
Killed it, which doesn't.
Hardly ever happened.
I know.
With fiction, right?
At first I was like, oh no, theauthor's narrating.
(23:31):
I know, but he was brilliant.
Yeah.
He did it.
It it was so good.
And I'm the same as you.
I had no idea that, that thoseran along the bottom of the
ocean.
And how Ter, it's terrifying tothink.
That because he did bring up,you know, acts of terrorism and
(23:54):
Yeah, like what would happen if,you know, a lot of those were
destroyed and are reliant on theinternet, the banking systems,
you know, like it could be adisaster.
And I was listening to thatbook, thinking, oh my gosh, like
what a scope of information thathe covered.
(24:16):
But he made it in, in.
He made it so riveting, but tothink about the ramifications of
this, it was fascinating.
And also the, the ship captain,I'm blanking on his name.
Brett Benner (24:32):
I could tell you.
Renee (24:33):
But the fact that he was a free diver, I thought that was
really fascinating.
Brett Benner (24:38):
John Conway.
Renee (24:39):
Yeah, John.
Okay.
Wasn't that interesting aboutthe free diving
Brett Benner (24:43):
the, the free diving.
I was gonna mention that too,that I literally, again, it was
all due to the writing and hisreading where I found myself
like driving the car, clutchingthe wheel.
How
Renee (24:53):
you know?
Brett Benner (24:54):
Thinking when they were talking about like the
bends and just the pressure and,and that feeling in your lungs.
You've gotta get up and can youget up in time and Oh my God,
it, I, I really was, I thoughtit was, it's everything to me.
A good book should do, it shouldbe informative.
It should be riveting.
It should have great characters.
I thought it was great.
Renee (25:14):
Yeah.
Okay.
Second.
Oh, that's a good one.
Okay.
All right.
My next.
My next favorite is a Backlist,and it is the Island of Missing
Trees by LF Shaak.
I listened to this one.
I kind of did a combination.
I mostly listened and I thoughtthe audio was, was just
fantastic.
(25:34):
This is about two teenagers, aGreek CPR and a Turkish cpr, and
they meet at a tavern on theisland.
They both call home.
And at some point a tragedyensues, and then decades later,
one of them returns, searchingfor a native species, but also a
(25:56):
lost love.
It.
Okay.
This was, I had such aninteresting reading experience
with this book because reallythat right there is exactly
something I would like.
I love a complicated love story.
I love a bittersweet love story.
I love all of that.
And I started this book on audioand I ended up reaching a point
(26:19):
where I was like, I don't knowif I'm into this.
I it, there's also a.
Another perspective in the book,which is a fig tree.
And I, I was quite intrigued bythat.
But there was, I don't know whatit was.
I, I don't know what, what mymood was like.
Okay, I'm gonna set this downfor a couple days.
(26:42):
I don't know if it's a DNF.
Well, turns out I picked it.
I could not stop thinking aboutthe fig tree, so I picked it
back up like two or three dayslater and just kept on going.
And I absolutely loved it.
And I really especially lovedthe fact that the trig, the fig
tree, had her own perspective.
(27:02):
Mm-hmm.
She was an all-knowingphilosophical narrator.
She knew the whole story, butshe only gave it to the reader.
You know, in bits and pieces.
Yeah.
Which was brilliant.
It was such a brilliantstructure and it was a
bittersweet love story.
And I love, I just, I reallyloved it and I, I really loved
(27:24):
her writing, but sometimes,sometimes you have to sit with
something and you have to bepatient, which I learned, like,
I have to be patient and I haveto, to stay with the story.
So my, my reading intuition.
Called me back to this and Ijust, I loved it.
And who knew that a fig treewould capture me in 2025?
(27:50):
Have you read this one?
Brett Benner (27:51):
I did read it, yeah.
I loved this book.
I loved this book.
But it's funny'cause I read itlong enough that I was hearing
it.
I was like, oh yeah.
Renee (27:58):
Do you remember the fig tree
Brett Benner (27:59):
completely?
Yeah, I think she's anincredible writer.
In fact, I just read the first,very first thing I read this
year was, was her, her latestbook, which has gone outta my
head.
The Rivers, yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Is that right?
Okay.
Yes.
Yes.
I think she's a, I think she's abrilliant writer.
She's also an incredible thinkerand, um, point of view what
(28:23):
she's saying about the world.
I think she's truly gifted and akind of amazing woman.
Yeah.
She's
Renee (28:30):
on, she has a sub stat newsletter.
Brett Benner (28:32):
Oh, she does?
Mm-hmm.
Renee (28:34):
Yeah, so I, maybe I'll, I would love to connect with her
sometime, but I downloaded hernew book.
So I will, I'll check that outat some point.
Brett Benner (28:43):
Yeah, it's epic and beautiful and genius.
She's incredibly smart.
That's a great choice.
Okay, so my next, I'm trying tothink which one I'm gonna do.
Alright.
My next book was something thatI'd really wanted to read this
year when it first came out andI didn't get to it immediately
(29:06):
and then, and then I read it andI flipped.
Out over it, which isWoodworking by Emily St.
James.
This is a book, it's sointeresting because it's about a
teacher in Mitchell, SouthDakota who has decided to
transition from male to female.
(29:26):
So when the book opens,everything leads you to believe,
and this is not really aspoiler, but everything leads
you to believe that they havealready transitioned and they're
a woman.
But none of it's happened yet.
So.
They are presenting still as aman.
And it's not until you get alittle further in the book that
you realize, oh my gosh, he isstill he.
(29:49):
But what happens is there is astudent in.
His class who is trans, who ismale to female, who has gone
much further along and theyforge this kind of unlikely
relationship, friendship, wherethis student kind of is
shepherding the teacher along.
Now, the student whose name isAbigail is this very smart mouth
(30:13):
sassy, take no prisoners, nobullshit.
Kind of character and theteacher has an ex-wife'cause
they've broken up, so she's init as well.
And so there's all thesecharacters that kind of come
into it.
The young girl, Abigail, the thestudent, she has a boyfriend who
is.
(30:33):
Has been adopted from China andhis parents, the, the, the
adopted kid are kind of pillarsin the community, but also very
conservative when this is aconservative town.
So it's kind of what happenswith all of these characters
come together.
This is what I loved about thebook because of everything
that's happening in the US rightnow and how these attacks about
(30:54):
trans people, which are soridiculous and so absurd.
For anyone who wants to kind ofunderstand in any capacity what
it's like for a person whorealizes that they're in the
wrong body.
This is the book to get.
It's not didactic, it's notheavy handed.
(31:15):
In fact, so much of it is sofunny that it really could play
like a, almost like a.
Comedy'cause it's really, reallyfunny, but also extremely
moving.
Everyone that I've told to getthis book has absolutely loved
it.
I just think it's, it's sofantastic and, and, and in a lot
of ways I look at it as a, as anecessary book.
(31:37):
I just think it's great.
So that's Woodworking by EmilySt.
James.
Renee (31:40):
Okay, good.
That's, I don't even know ifI've heard of that.
That's right under the radar.
Brett Benner (31:47):
It came out like three or four weeks ago in an
easy, funny, I think you'd loveit.
Renee (31:52):
Okay.
And the audio was good.
Brett Benner (31:55):
I had friends who, just two different friends who
just did the audio and theysaid, it's great.
And it's like, well, it's not afull cast.
There's more than one people.
And Emily St.
James reads one of thecharacters, the author.
So I don't know.
I don't know which one she does,but anyway.
Okay.
Renee (32:09):
Alright.
Good.
Yeah.
Okay.
My, my next one is.
Is nonfiction.
I mean, I know.
I was like, should I bring twononfiction?
But.
It.
Narrowing, narrowing, narrowingdown five I had, it's gotta be
there.
So it's unreasonablehospitality.
Mm-hmm.
(32:29):
The remarkable power of givingpeople more than they expect by
Will Gera.
Mm-hmm.
And like I said, now.
This is a nonfiction businessbook, which I would never have
thought I would read, let alonewould be a favorite, but oh my
gosh, was this so good?
I listened to this one, and thisis about Will and the fact that
(32:53):
when he was 26, he took over thehelm of 11 Madison Park in New
York City, which at the time wasa struggling two star
restaurant.
And then.
11 years later, it was named thebest restaurant in the world.
Wow.
And how did that happen?
(33:14):
And you have to read to findout, but this was.
So good.
And I love stories about NewYork City, especially New York
City, fine dining and behind thescenes of restaurant life.
That's just a, a sub genre thatI really love.
So I didn't really know how muchthis was about fine dining.
(33:38):
I, I've never heard of 11Madison Park.
I haven't either, so I loved it.
It's, it's behind the scenes,but it's also.
It's also a really broader lookat what it means to be
hospitable and what does thatmean to be unreasonably
hospitable.
(33:59):
And it made me think not only, Imean, as someone who puts
content into the world, I mean,we all could.
Could benefit from somethingthat he talked about, but also I
love, but from a customerservice perspective, what I was
listening to parts of this and Iwas like, gosh, this is really
(34:21):
making me realize.
How much I, how much poorcustomer service I accept, like,
why am I tipping people who havenot given me good customer
service?
And so it, it, it just makes youthink about a lot.
And, but I will say like, Imean, I love the behind the
(34:43):
scenes of fine dining and how hewas, he was so laser focused.
On making that restaurant numberone, and I love to read stories
about underdogs and people whohave these outrageous goals.
(35:03):
And are able to achieve it.
I think that's fascinating andthat is what this book is about.
And I do wanna shout outMeredith from currently reading,
because she reviewed this, I, Iwanna say last summer on
currently reading.
And I had not heard of it.
I don't think it would'vecrossed my path.
And at first when I heard thetitle, when she talked about it,
(35:26):
I was like.
Like, okay, well, I, I'm gonnalisten because I, I pay close
attention to what Meredithreviews, but then once I heard
her full review, I immediately,I was like, I'm adding that to
my TBR, and I just got to it inJanuary and I loved it.
It's a favorite of the year.
I also, I listened to it, but Ibought a print copy because I
(35:51):
have so much to highlight.
There's.
There's just so, so much lifewisdom in this book.
So that's unreasonablehospitality, the remarkable
power of giving people more thanthey expect by Will Guera.
Brett Benner (36:05):
That sounds great, and I've not heard of it at all.
I love that.
Okay, my next one is another onethat I, I ended up buying after
I, I didn't listen to this.
I, I read it on.
My Kindle and I was like, oh, Iwant this in my library.
It is The Antidote by KarenRussell.
Like a million years ago, I readSwamplandia, which was one of
(36:27):
her first books, and I kind ofremember the cover had an
alligator on it, and I don'tremember the book resonating
with me in any way, but at thetime, back then, I think the
majority of what I was readingwasn't kind of the fic, but I'd
heard enough about.
This new book, which soundedinteresting to me and it really
is.
And I think even though it haselements of magical realism in
(36:51):
it, it's a pretty linearstorytelling.
But it's set during it set in aNebraska during the Dust Bowl,
first of all, she's such abeautiful, incredibly
descriptive writer, but it'seffectively five characters.
And the first is a young.
A girl who was being raised byher single mother who gets
murdered, and she ends up goingto live with her uncle, who is
(37:14):
another one of the characters.
Then.
Into this story.
The antidote is actually aprairie witch, which I guess
these people existed, but herrole is effectively, you go to
this woman when you want to getrid of a memory.
If there's something you can'tdeal with or you just don't want
(37:35):
to think about anymore, you kindof unburden yourself to her and
she quote unquote banks it andtakes it from you and you
forget.
And so.
All of these characters pathsbegin to cross.
And then a young black womanshows up in the town who is a
(37:55):
photographer who is working forthe government to record America
at this point during thedepression and the Dust Bowl,
but her camera has this specialability to be able to.
See things that are no longerthere.
And one of the things that thecamera starts to pick up on is
(38:19):
the indigenous people that livedon the land that the Americans
drove out.
So I.
A, a large part of the biggerstory here is about
colonization, but it's alsoabout power and corruption.
Mm-hmm.
So there's a lot going on, andI've made it sound almost more
(38:41):
complicated than it is, but.
All of these stories kind ofweaved and they all kind of come
together.
I thought it was amazing.
It's epic, but also intimate.
All of these characters were sofascinating to me.
It's incredible how relevantsome of it is, even with things
(39:01):
happening today in terms ofpolitics, in terms of how
absolute power causes absolutecorruption.
I'm gonna say great yarn,
Renee (39:10):
but it really
Brett Benner (39:10):
is.
So that's the antidote by KarenRussell.
Renee (39:14):
Okay.
Ooh.
Yeah, I, that sounds, thatsounds interesting.
Okay, so I have saved my topbook for last.
Brett Benner (39:22):
Okay.
Okay.
And it
Renee (39:23):
is Slanting Towards the Sea by Sia Hill, Jay, and it
comes out July 8th.
Okay.
So summer book, but get yourpre-orders in, because I really
hope that this is.
Quote unquote, a popular summerread.
But this one is a set over 20years, so it's spanning 20 years
(39:48):
and one life altering summer inCroatia.
And it is an unforgettable lovestory and a powerful exploration
of what it means to come of agein a country younger than
oneself.
So, like I said, at its core, itis a complicated love story.
It revolves around Ivana and hergreat love, Val.
(40:11):
It's also a father daughter lovestory, and it is a love story of
one's homeland and of newbeginnings.
There are a lot of themes goingon in this story, but that it,
it adds so much depth to what isalready.
A beautiful story.
(40:33):
Her writing for me was literaryperfection.
It is.
Wow.
Gorgeous.
I love her writing.
This is a debut.
I read this by the pool inCancun in February.
I think it is a perfect likesummer, beach read, pool, read.
(40:54):
And it's different.
It's unique.
I mean, there are a lot of lovetriangles in happening.
I think in literature this, thisfirst quarter, I mean, we've got
Dream State by Eric Puchner
Brett Benner (41:07):
which I still have to read, broken
Renee (41:08):
Country by Claire Leslie Hall.
This is also a, there is a lovetrial, love triangle aspect to
the story, but it's differentthan the others.
I love a love triangle.
I, I mean, if you tell methere's a love triangle, I don't
need to know anything else aboutthis story.
You're like,
Brett Benner (41:26):
you had me at Love Triangle.
You.
That's it.
Renee (41:28):
And I really like the unique angle that the author
took with this story.
And there's also a really an odeto, to.
Nature and the land.
There's just so much.
I really think people who enjoyliterary fiction especially are
(41:52):
going to love this book.
It is Slanting Towards the Seaby Sia Hill.
Jay,
Brett Benner (41:58):
I'm, I am so in.
I am so in.
Oh gosh.
You
Renee (42:00):
have to pull up the cover.
The cover's gorgeous.
There's a really great storythat she tells about the
serendipity of getting thatcover.
Brett Benner (42:11):
I'm typing so fast.
I'm like, oh, there it is.
Oh, wow.
Beautiful.
Renee (42:16):
And that the, the cover is illustrated by a Croatian
artist, and they didn't knoweach other, but just, it's, it's
a great story.
Brett Benner (42:27):
Oh, that's awesome.
All right.
I'm so in.
Okay, so my last that I amfocusing on is also, it's not
out yet.
This is going to be out April15th.
It is a fiction debut, althoughthe author has published other
works and we were talking aboutthat earlier.
Some people have other things.
(42:48):
So this is actually his, hisfiction debut.
The book is called Open Heaven.
The author is Sean Hewitt.
He's an Irish writer, SeanHewitt.
Wrote a biography a few yearsago called All Down Darkness
Wide, which I read before this,which was also fantastic about
him being in a relationship withsomeone with an addiction
(43:08):
problem and what kind ofhappened.
He is a poet, first andforemost, and I have, first of
all, I love Irish writers.
I just think they write suchincredible books and I'm also
such a big fan of.
Poets who then write prosebecause I think it's, it's
absolutely beautiful.
Like Garth Greenwell and OceanVuoung, and this is another
(43:29):
example of that.
So this is like this simplestory.
It it's, it's a very, not a verylong book, but it's about this
young boy named James, who'sliving in a very small town
who's shy, 16 years old, kind ofcoming to terms with his
sexuality and realizing he'sgay.
And one day.
(43:50):
He is his father forces him toget a job working on a milk
delivery truck where the guy inthe town kind of drives him
around.
He runs up and puts the milk onthe porch, and there is at the
neighbor's house, a new youngguy who's there helping out, who
apparently is quote unquotetroubled.
And this boy's parents have senthim to live with, I, I think
(44:12):
it's his uncle and his aunt tokind of get it together for the,
for the summer, for the year.
So they.
Develop a friendship, and so thebook is really about this young
kid who really falls desperatelyin love with this guy.
Who is straight.
So there's no, there's no chancethat it's going to develop into
(44:35):
this blossoming romance.
It, it really is very much, if Ihave one adjective to attach to
this book, it's longing and theentire book so incredibly well
captures that feeling that youhave when you are.
So enamored with somebody, buthow does it get reciprocated or
(45:00):
how does it get returned in away that is satisfying and
fulfilling, and how does it not?
How do you not upend the applecart by either pushing something
too far or confessing something?
It's so.
Heartbreaking and beautiful, andso self-assured and just really,
really gorgeous and kind of theway that like Call Me By Your
(45:22):
Name is gorgeous and I justthought it was, I think he's
such a crazy, talented writerand just a simple, really
beautiful debut.
I loved it.
Okay, so that's Open Heaven bySean Hewitt, and it will be out
April 15th.
So
Renee (45:38):
pre-order.
Brett Benner (45:40):
Ooh.
Renee (45:41):
Okay.
I am going to, I'm gonna getright on net galley when we're
finished.
Yeah.
Because I know I've seen that,but I know I've seen the cover,
but for whatever reason, I, Ididn't even like read the
synopsis or anything, but I lovewhat you had to say.
And I'm also now wondering whathappens.
(46:01):
Yeah, it's, I wanna know what,what happens when you're in that
situation and does he.
Ru, like I'm assuming maybe theyend up friends, but do you ruin
a friendship?
And I need, I'm just, I'm verycurious.
Yeah, no, it's great.
About this story.
Okay.
Ooh, those are some really great
Brett Benner (46:23):
choices.
They
Renee (46:23):
are choices.
Brett Benner (46:24):
Okay.
No, wait.
You had one, you had two.
Talk about the surprise for you.
Renee (46:28):
Okay.
I have two and I'll be quickbecause I can decide on just
one.
So the first book that, thatreally surprised me.
Was Raising Hair, A memoir byChloe Dalton.
Brett Benner (46:39):
It, it's so funny 'cause I almost did the same
Renee (46:41):
one.
Really?
Yeah.
I didn't know you read this.
Oh my gosh.
That's my one
Brett Benner (46:44):
nonfiction.
Yeah.
Renee (46:45):
Oh, oh, I love that.
Okay, so I love animals.
That's not too surprising to me,but what is surprising to me.
Is the fact that this is aboutso much more than just a woman
who decide who, who makes achoice to help an injured hair
one day.
I mean, that is what she did.
(47:06):
But I was so surprised by howunique this story actually is
and when it, it's described as amagical, true story of a woman
in an injured hair.
Who taught her how to liveagain.
And it is exactly that.
And when I finished, I thought,oh my gosh, this is, this is a
time when the pub, when thepublisher's use of the word
(47:31):
magical actually really applies.
Mm-hmm.
I loved everything about thisstory and I almost, I almost did
not pick it up because I wasworried.
I, I tend to worry thatsomething bad.
Is gonna happen where I cannotread about it.
But thanks to Katie, a basicbees guide who let me know that
(47:52):
not only I would like it, but Iwould be okay reading it.
So I'm here to tell everyoneelse you don't, you'll be okay
if you are, you know, worriedabout animal, sensitive, about
the right, if you're sensitiveto animal, animal stories.
But, and, and it's beautiful.
I loved it.
It's so beautiful.
It surprised me in.
(48:13):
Just about every way, thestorytelling, what, what her
experience actually ended upbeing.
I'm trying not to spoil anythingabout the story, but what
actually ended up happening wasamazing.
Brett Benner (48:29):
Have you been to her?
Have you been to her Instagram?
Renee (48:32):
No, I haven't been.
Oh my
Brett Benner (48:33):
God.
Oh my God.
You have to go to her Instagram.
Oh my gosh.
'cause she has all of thepictures and videos and you see
the hair and it, it, that scene,that hair, I was so moved.
Like I.
I don't know.
I just was like, I listened tothis on audio and basically one
(48:54):
shot like driving,'cause it'snot a long book.
Mm-hmm.
Driving from Los Angeles to thedesert and I just kind of like
was enveloped and it's, I don'tknow if you listened to it or
read it.
I
Renee (49:04):
listened to it.
Okay.
And then, yeah.
And she is
Brett Benner (49:06):
phenomenal.
The woman who reads it.
Right.
And there's also a greatafterwards where she interviews
the author, which I loved.
Mm-hmm.
Renee (49:13):
I did
Brett Benner (49:14):
too.
I just was so kind of wrapped upin her voice and I was so there,
but I'm telling you, you'vegotta go into Instagram'cause
you'll like it.
It brings it all into like 3D,you know what I mean?
Renee (49:28):
Okay, I will do that.
I, I saw a picture of the actualhare but it wasn't on her
Instagram, so I need to go back.
I didn't even think about goingto Instagram.
Yeah, yeah.
I will do that.
And
Brett Benner (49:39):
so I just got lost.
I like went down and then I waslike, I want a hare
Renee (49:44):
well, I will, I'll share with you, I just finished this
morning listening to herinterview.
On the Poured over podcast.
Okay.
Just Barnes and Noble and itwas, it was really good.
It's a good interview.
Brett Benner (49:56):
I just saw it was just shortlisted for the women's
prize for nonfiction.
Oh really?
So it just got short?
Yeah, it just got shortlistedfor that.
I think we're gonna see more ofit and I bet by the end of the
year it's gonna be on a lot ofyear end lists for nonfiction.
Just'cause I think it, I thinkit is touching a lot of people
who are discovering it.
(50:16):
But I think it's helping thatwe're talking about it.
'cause Yeah, I think it's greatand I think it needs, you know,
it's one of those things whereyou want it to have a bigger
audience.
Renee (50:23):
Yes, absolutely.
Okay, so I'll tell you reallyquickly.
Sure.
My other surprise book is BlueLight Hours by Bruna Dantes
Lovato, which is a debut, cameout in 2024, but I just read it
in in January.
So it's the debut novel of ayoung Brazilian woman's first
(50:43):
year in America.
A continent away from her lonelymother and the relationship they
build over Skype across likecall, over Skype, calls across
borders.
The reason this is so surprisingfor me is because it's, it's 192
pages and I never expected tolove a book that is basically a
(51:12):
mother and daughter talkingacross Skype.
And that's what happened.
And not a lot happens, but somuch happens.
It packs a really powerfulemotional punch.
Her writing just made me stop inmy tracks several times.
I listened to this.
It's beautiful.
(51:32):
And so shout out to SarahHildreth, who really championed
this book and.
So Sarah is a reader I trust ingeneral, but whenever she raves
about a mother-daughter book,which she did in the fall for
this one, I put it, you know,right into my TBR and I pulled
it out in January and I'm justso, so surprised at what the
(51:57):
author was able to do in only192 pages.
So that's Blue Light Hours byBruna Dantes Lovato.
Brett Benner (52:06):
That sounds great.
Renee (52:07):
I think you would like it.
What surprised you?
Brett Benner (52:11):
My surprise is a backlist book, which which came
out last year and it's funnybecause I was sent a copy of it
from Celadon and never read it,but never got rid of it because
the cover intrigued me so much,and it's called Devil Is Fine by
John Cher.
And then this year it was longlisted for the Aspen Words
(52:36):
prize.
And Aspen Words Prize is, isactually one of my favorite of
the lit prizes.
You know, their whole thing isto showcase stories that
represent the human experience.
And so when it was on there andI had it, I was like, oh, this
is perfect.
I'm gonna read it.
And.
First of all, I'm gonna show youthe cover, which our, which our
(52:56):
listeners can't see it, but it'sa group of jellyfish, which
looks like dirt in the middle.
And so I had no sense of what itwas.
I'll read you this little blurb.
It says, from acclaimednovelist, John Vercher a
poignant story of what it meansto be a father, a son, a writer,
and a biracial American fightingto reconcile the past.
So effectively what it is, isit's about this.
(53:18):
Father, who's also, he's awriter who is struggling with
his next book.
His son has tragically died,which we don't know how that
will reveal itself later.
He's since split up with hiswife.
He, when his son dies, he findsout that his father had left his
(53:39):
property down south to his son.
And so since his son is nolonger alive, he is going to
collect on it.
But when he arrives down southto this house, they find in the
backyard human remains and Ohwow.
(54:01):
It seems that.
His, the house and this propertywas a plantation that held
slaves and so it's this man kindof coming to terms with his
ancestors' past, while alsocoming to terms with his son's
death.
It is really good.
(54:24):
I listened to it on audio and ittook me a moment to kind of tap
in a little bit because of thereader, but.
Ultimately, I, I loved hisreading of it.
It just took me a little bit toget into his voice, into the
rhythm of it, which happenssometimes with, with books, with
books on tape, I should say.
But ultimately, I thought.
(54:45):
Uh, this is something I newouldn't have necessarily even
picked up.
I'm so glad I held onto it and,and again, that's why I'm
thankful so many times for thesebook prizes because they do
highlight things that you think,okay, well enough people think
it's worthy.
Lemme check it out.
And it absolutely was.
So a, a, a really engaging,moving and at times very funny
(55:06):
book as well, but reallyinteresting cast of characters.
Good book Devil Is Fine by JohnVercher
Renee (55:12):
oh, okay.
I've never heard of that.
And, and I will
Brett Benner (55:15):
say this, my big question when I started into it
was I was like, what are thejellyfish?
It'll all make sense.
Renee (55:19):
Okay.
Yeah.
When you said the title, I wouldnever have have thought that it
would have jellyfish on thecover.
No.
Brett Benner (55:27):
Well, I kept thinking like, why?
This is about a man who goesRight.
And it, it all comes out, so
Renee (55:31):
Okay.
But very interesting.
It's eye catching.
Brett Benner (55:34):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And
Renee (55:35):
oh, I love that.
Okay.
And you made me realize I needto go check out the Aspen.
Brett Benner (55:40):
Yeah, they just, I think they're on their, they
have their short list now.
Okay.
So, and I've read I think fiveof the six.
There's one I haven't read yet,but it's a, it's a decent list
this year.
Well, this has been so amazingas usual and I think we've given
our listeners a treasure troveof of books to explore and check
out and get and read.
(56:00):
Yes and yes.
I think we're gonna have to doat at least probably another
halfway point, check in to seeif things change and if things
knock out.
I love that when you say to dowould love to,
Renee (56:11):
to do that.
Brett Benner (56:12):
So thank you.
So much for being here.
Always a pleasure talking toyou.
We can go on forever, so youknow when you get talking about
books.
Renee (56:21):
I know.
Well, thanks for having me and Iwill look forward to checking in
with you in the future.
Brett Benner (56:27):
Absolutely.
And of course I will have all ofRenee's information below if you
don't already have her.
Where to follow her, where tofind her.
Check out her substack for sure.
And of course my bookshop.orgpage will have all of the titles
we've talked about, so you cancheck that out as well.
But alright, Renee, I will seeyou soon.
Renee (56:47):
Okay, see you later.
Bye.
Brett Benner (56:49):
Thank you everybody for listening, and
once again, if you're likingwhat you're hearing, please
consider liking and subscribingat your podcast platform of
choice and also consider leavinga review.
Reviews are incredibly helpfulin getting podcasts seen and
making sure that they have amore prominent position on these
(57:10):
platforms, so I would reallyappreciate it.
Okay, everybody, I'll see younext week.
Hello everybody and.
Welcome to a bonus episode thisweek of Behind the Stack, where
I am really happy to be sittingback down with my friend Renee
from its book Talk on Instagramand its book Talk and More on
her Substack, talking aboutfirst quarter faves.
(00:20):
I can't believe the firstquarter of this year is almost,
well, it is over.
Not almost.
It is over and we've survivedit.
I didn't know at times if we allwould, but we have so.
Anyway, we have some great bookswe're talking about today.
We each came with five choices,so enjoy this bonus episode of
Behind the Stack.
(00:46):
I am so glad to.
Welcome, Renee from its bookTalk and we had so much fun at
the beginning of the year, whichI can't even believe it was that
long ago already, where we weretalking about what we were
looking forward to.
We.
This year.
So today we're gonna talk aboutfirst quarter faves and what we
have loved and we, we've bothcome today with five books out
(01:08):
of the first quarter that we'veloved.
But before we get into that, Iwanted us to kind of back up and
talk about the books that youwere looking forward to this
year and see if we've coveredany of them.
How are you, by the way?
Renee (01:21):
Hello?
Hello.
I am great.
Thanks for having me back.
And hello listeners.
Yeah, super.
I I was very excited that youasked me to come back because of
course I'm, I will take anyopportunity to talk about
favorite books and stats and allthe fun good things about
(01:41):
reading.
So I'm doing great.
My reading this year, so farthis year.
Is on fire.
Oh, it's really good.
I'm really happy with what I'mreading, and I don't know if
it's pat myself on the backbecause I'm choosing just the
right books for me.
Mm-hmm.
(02:02):
Which I guess I could pat myselfon the back.
I'm just, I'm loving it.
I'm loving.
Overall, the, the books that I'mreading, there's been a few
disappointments, but for themost part I'm really happy.
Brett Benner (02:18):
Alright, so then backing up.
Do you remember what the fivebooks were that you originally
were looking forward to?
Renee (02:24):
I do now, because when you said that, I was like, what
did I, what did I say I wantedto read?
Now I stand, but of course acouple of them aren't out yet,
and I don't have a copy of oneof them.
So.
I had to remind myself, I'mlike, oh my gosh, yes, I forgot
about that book.
So anyway, I had three Wild Dogsand The Truth A Memoir by Marcus
(02:47):
Zza.
I had the Oligarch's daughter, aThriller by Joseph Fender.
I had just want you here byMeredith Turret, which is a
coming of age novel.
I had Flashlight by Susan Choithat comes out June 3rd, and I
had the catch by Ursa DaleyWard, which also comes out June
(03:11):
3rd.
Brett Benner (03:13):
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Renee (03:15):
And then do you want me to tell you which one I read, or
are we gonna Yeah, you can.
Sure, sure, sure.
It's one of my favorites so far.
It's one of my top five.
Brett Benner (03:23):
Oh wow.
Okay.
Would, can you, I wonder
Renee (03:26):
if you could guess,
Brett Benner (03:32):
name me the last one again.
Renee (03:34):
The Catch Ursa by Ursa Daily Ward.
It's hers.
No, unfortunately I don't have acopy of that one, but, okay.
I'll keep you in suspense tillwe get to our, okay.
Alright, that's good.
Favorites.
Brett Benner (03:48):
Okay.
Okay, so my, my five were agorgeous excitement by Cynthia
Weiner Penitence by KristinKoval Wild Dark Shore by
Charlotte McConaughey.
The names by Florence Knapp andthe Pretender by Joe Harkin.
(04:14):
Now.
Two of these aren't out yet,which is the names and the
pretenders, so I haven't readeither of those yet, but the
other three, I've read all ofthem.
Renee (04:24):
Good for you.
I knew you would probably sayyou've already read most of
yours.
Brett Benner (04:29):
I was, I was surprised actually, when I
looked back to see what theywere.
'cause I really didn't rememberuntil I looked up this morning
and I was like, oh, okay, good.
All right.
I've tried desperately to get acopy of the names, but to no
avail, so.
Renee (04:41):
Oh, bummer.
Brett Benner (04:42):
Well, it's been sitting in that net galley queue
forever, and so that's fine.
You can't get them all.
So,
Renee (04:48):
no, I know.
I'm waiting on the Catch TheUrsa daily Ward.
That one is in net galley.
Pending Purgatory.
Purgatory.
Brett Benner (04:59):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
So cool.
So for our first quarter phases,do you wanna go over stats
first?
Yes.
Before we get into them.
Okay, cool.
Why don't you start.
How many books did you readtotal?
So far?
Renee (05:13):
Right now I've read 24 that I've finished.
I do have a few DNFs.
Sometimes I've, I've gotten kindof far, so, but I don't count'em
in my total if ID nfd anything.
Yeah, I don't count them.
So I've got 24 total.
Brett Benner (05:29):
Okay.
And I read 32 books so far.
Now, what's your audio versusyour print?
Renee (05:38):
My audio is 50%, so that's 12 books, and my print is
three, which is actually a lotmore than I usually read in
print.
And then my digital is 38%,which is eight.
Oh, that's so
Brett Benner (05:54):
interesting.
Okay.
Because
Renee (05:54):
I read a lot.
I prefer my Kindle over print,so I'm actually trying to.
Really, I, I just prefer readingon my Kindle most of the time.
My goal, one of my goals forthis year was to significantly
decrease my audio, which I'vedone.
I used to be a 80 to 85% audio.
Brett Benner (06:16):
Wow.
Now, do you highlight on theKindle?
Renee (06:20):
Yes.
Yeah, I do highlight if, if it'ssomething, yeah.
I tend to highlight.
Insightful sentences, thingsthat I, I wanna really remember
and maybe transfer to mycommonplace notebook, which is
where I keep just beautifulquotes, inspiring things.
(06:41):
I don't highlight plot, likeplot things, or I don't
highlight anything that Iwouldn't consider like writing
that I want to keep captured.
Brett Benner (06:53):
Yeah.
Okay.
That's
Renee (06:54):
kind of how I highlight.
Okay.
Brett Benner (06:57):
It is interesting 'cause I don't have the
percentages, but I did 14, 14books on audio, so it's almost
half, which surprised me when Istarted to go through it.
The other thing I had was 18first time authors, and I say
first time authors, I should sayfirst time.
Debut authors in particular forfiction, although that's not
(07:18):
even true because one of thesepeople was nonfiction as well.
Renee (07:21):
That's awesome.
Brett Benner (07:24):
Yeah, but I only had one nonfiction.
That's it.
Which is bad.
I was gonna
Renee (07:27):
ask you about that one non,'cause my nonfiction is up,
which was one of my goals fromlast year.
I was, I ended last year withonly 9% nonfiction, which is
not, that's not.
Where I wanna be.
I want to definitely be higherwith nonfiction.
Yeah.
So right now I'm at 21%, which Ibelieve was like, I don't
(07:49):
remember what the story graphsaid.
Possibly six or sevennonfiction, maybe eight.
And then I'm at 79% fiction.
But I am happy with that and Ihave, I'm bringing.
Nonfiction favorites today, andthey have just been stellar.
I have a feeling my nonfictionthis year is gonna be my highest
(08:11):
ever.
Wow.
Wow.
Yeah.
I'm, I'm feeling it.
I'm feeling nonfiction.
Brett Benner (08:18):
I was surprised 'cause I was like, I swear to
God I read more than this, butclearly, but I clearly didn't.
So it's something I have to payattention to moving forward.
Renee (08:29):
Well, do you think it's hard.
To kind of prioritize nonfictionjust because we're so immersed
in fiction and that tends to be.
What listeners like to hear whatBookstagram Light Bookstagram
people like to see is, it's alot of fiction, I think.
What do you, do you think that,
Brett Benner (08:49):
I think you're right.
I mean, I know like Tracy at theStacks mm-hmm.
You know, really focuses onnonfiction, which I think is
amazing.
I love nonfiction, but it has tobe, I have to find it engaging
and I like happen to glance overat my books right now and I have
so much that I'm looking at,like for example, biblio Phobia
by Sarah Shaya, like I've beenreading that.
(09:12):
I started, I just haven'tfinished it yet, which I don't
know why'cause it's not eventhat long.
But I'm just looking at, I justgot the challenger.
Book that was, you know, becauseso many people have been talking
about that.
So for whatever reason, I don'tknow why, but I do, I think the
flashier stuff, especially forlike bookstagram Sure.
It's all, you know, new releasesand I think there's, and, and
(09:34):
more even leans heavily intogenre fiction than anything
else.
Um mm-hmm.
On books, Instagram with eithermysteries and thrillers or
romantic stuff seems to be likethe forefront.
Not that far, I think from booktalk.
Renee (09:48):
True.
Yeah.
Brett Benner (09:49):
So, but yeah, I, I always feel like when it gets to
nonfiction of Amber and you makea list, and it's like, it gets
about as many likes as a review.
Does IE nothing?
Renee (09:59):
I know, I know.
I had to and I love it and, andwhen I was on the podcast, I
felt like I couldn't orshouldn't bring that much
nonfiction because it, it just.
Tends to not be something that alot of people want to hear
about, which is unfortunate.
And I do, I do think that Tracydoes a great job of highlighting
(10:23):
and shouting out nonfiction andyeah, Katie and I were talking
about it because Katie lovesnonfiction and so maybe, maybe
together ever, you know, we cantry to elevate, do it, elevate
nonfiction a little bit.
I, funny story, I was at thelibrary a couple days ago doing
like a deep.
Library search in the, withinthe stacks.
(10:45):
Yeah.
And so a la I had a huge pile inmy hand and a lady.
Stopped and was like, I loveseeing other people who
obviously love to read a lot.
And we started chatting and I ofcourse, you know, asked her,
what do you like to read?
And she was naming off DeanKuntz and Michael Carita.
I'm like, I love Michael Carita.
(11:07):
Anyway, and then she was like,you know what I, I don't like at
all.
I don't like nonfiction.
And I was like, really?
Let me, but I could, I couldreally tell you some really
great nonfiction to try, butpeople just don't.
Wanna talk about non-fiction?
I
Brett Benner (11:23):
think I, I I, my take on it too is people assume
they hear it and think dry.
Yes.
And I think it it, but like, youcould find a non-fiction book
that's going to appeal to anyperson based on what their
interests are.
So if you're a thriller person,there are so many true crime
books that you can be reading.
There are
Renee (11:40):
absolutely, you know, that are
Brett Benner (11:41):
so well done.
So I do think it's, I think it,it's just like, it's when, when
people say, well, I don't liketo read.
My common response to that is.
You just haven't got the bookyet that pull you in.
I was that same
Renee (11:55):
thing that I feel like when people say they don't like
nonfiction, they just haven'tfound the right book.
Brett Benner (12:01):
Yeah.
And it just, it's, it's a littlemore concentrated because you
have to think, well, what do yougenerate towards in your normal
reading?
Are they thrillers?
Are they mystery?
You know, are they whatever?
But I guarantee you, you canfind something that.
Is gonna be compelling in thatgenre anyway.
(12:22):
Exactly.
Okay.
So should we get into our fivebooks?
Sure.
What's your first in this, inthis stellar year you've been
having?
Renee (12:33):
And you know what?
I will tell you, I'll start withthe one that was one of my five
that I told you I wanted to readback in January.
Okay.
And this is actually my topthriller.
Uh, of the year, and it's gonnabe really hard to beat.
It's the Oligarchs daughter byJoseph Fender.
(12:54):
This was the one Yeah.
About Paul Brightman, who was aman on the run.
He was living under an Naum namein a small New England town, and
he had a million dollar bountyon his head.
And one day his security isbreached and he is forced to
flee into the New Hampshirewilderness, to evade Russian
(13:16):
operatives who can seeminglypredict his every move.
Hmm.
So long story short, Paul, howdid, how did he get himself in
this situation?
Was the fact that he had marriedthe daughter of a Russian
oligarch?
And that's all I will saybecause obviously things happen
(13:39):
and you know, this is a veryfast paced thriller from start
to finish.
I could not put this down.
It is jam packed with differentthreads and subplots, but.
None of it is hard to follow,nothing.
I mean, Joseph Hender is anexperienced thriller writer.
(14:01):
I've read some of his backlist.
I mean, this one is stellar,though.
This is stellar and I, I'm notsure why I'm not seeing more
buzz about this thriller,especially among thriller
readers.
Because it's so good.
Interesting.
Brett Benner (14:18):
Now, did you did this on audio or do you No, I
read the, read this
Renee (14:21):
one on my Kindle, so I'm not sure about the audio.
I, I have had some peoplemessage me who did listen to it
and loved it.
Brett Benner (14:29):
Okay.
All right.
Great.
Renee (14:31):
So I, I think just from what they said, I, I haven't, I
haven't, I haven't had anymessages from people telling me
they didn't like this.
So it's, it's really good.
So that one's the OligarchDaughter by Joseph Fender.
Brett Benner (14:44):
All right.
I'll start with something that Iwas on my looking forward to
list.
It's so funny when I was goingthrough these and I was thinking
so much of it is like, what,when I've read stuff earlier in
the year, what is stillresonating with me?
Mm-hmm.
What do I still think about?
And this book was somewhat of asurprise to me in that the way
it's kind of sat with me,although I, I really loved it at
(15:05):
the time.
Debut.
It's a gorgeous excitement byCynthia Weiner and.
I really loved this book.
I thought it was so interesting.
Well, what it's about is it's ayoung girl in high school, well,
she's applying to colleges.
She's a senior living in NewYork City in the eighties, and
(15:26):
kind of the debauchery of.
Of New York City in the eightiesgrowing up where your parents
don't really know where you are.
Running around with your groupsof friends hanging out in
sheep's meadow, taking a lot ofdrugs, having a job.
But this girl who hangs out withthese kids who are primarily
very kind of wealthy, waspykids, and she's very crushed out
(15:46):
on the kind of charming boy, oneof the boys of the group, who is
kind of kennedyesque allAmerican.
Everything seems to be going hisway.
Well.
One of their group, one of thegirls is murdered in Central
Park and found her body is foundand it.
Seems that it's this guy, butthis doesn't happen till later.
(16:10):
It starts with a body in thepark.
But the book is based on CynthiaWeiner's own experience in New
York City growing up, and shewas in this group of friends and
one of them.
Was the preppy murderer and oh,Robert Wow.
Chambers.
And so he was her friend and hewas in this group, and so then
(16:32):
he was caught and so.
It's very loosely based on thattime and those people, but it,
it reminds me a little bit ofBrett Stellis.
It's been compared to BrightLight's Big City and I could see
that as well.
But it's such an interestingbook because.
It's a woman's perspective.
(16:54):
A young girl coming of age, alsoa Jewish girl in the midst of
this, you know, lot ofantisemitism that was existing
then.
It's a great, it's a greatdebut.
So that's my first a gorgeousexcitement.
Yeah,
Renee (17:06):
I have a copy of that, but you, I totally forgot about
it.
So.
You just sold it.
And I remember reading about thepreppy murder murderer.
Yeah, I remember that.
And that, I mean, it's notsomething I've thought about in
years, but as soon as you saidthat, I remembered it
Brett Benner (17:24):
well and I immediately looked it up.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, you know, and I had tosee what he looked like and kind
of his hold he had on all these,on all these girls.
Renee (17:33):
Oh, wow.
So, okay.
I'm gonna definitely bump thatup.
All right.
I, one of my next favorites isone of, one of my most recent
reads.
I actually read this after I didmy, my quarterly chat with
Katie.
So this was not included and I,I benched this.
(17:54):
It's a memoir.
It is Bingeable.
It's the Tell by Amy Griffin.
Okay.
I listened to the entire thingin one day.
This is about, this is obviouslyAmy's story.
It is her search for the truthto understand and begin to
recover from buried childhoodtrauma.
(18:15):
She interrogates the pursuit ofher own perfectionism.
I mean, she, she ran, she ran,she ran.
She ran.
And she never stopped to think,what am I possibly running from
something.
She was a type A control personand she really like, maintained
an appearance of looking good,very driven, just a very type a
(18:41):
perfectionist.
And one day her daughter saidsomething to her, and you know,
I don't think it's, it's not aspoiler to say that.
I think her daughter was 11 atthe time, and she said, mom.
You're nice, but we don't reallyknow you.
You're here but you're not here.
And that set her on a path of,of a, of a journey to find out
(19:09):
about more about herself.
And in doing so, found out aboutthis buried childhood trauma.
So the.
The pace of this memoir isunbelievable.
I mean, when I tell you I hadan, an AirPod in the entire day
I had to go to, this was the dayI had to go to the BMV because I
(19:32):
found, I realized thanks to apostcard in the mail that my
license expired.
And I was like, oh my God.
And I, I had to wait an hour anda half, didn't even care.
I'm like, I don't care.
I'm listening to this book.
No problem.
It was fascinating, herstorytelling ability.
(19:53):
It was, it was amazing.
It was riveting.
As someone who wasn't quite onher level of perfectionism, I, I
saw myself in a lot of.
What she described, and I thinkI'm a few years older than her,
but she grew, you know, she grewup kind of in the eighties and
(20:15):
so, mm-hmm.
There was that whole, that wholepart of it that I really
enjoyed, you know, listening toher childhood, I thought that
the way she structured thismemoir was brilliant, and I am,
I'm not gonna tell, I'm notgonna say anything else about
it.
But like I said, I was rivetedand then, and I wasn't even sure
(20:37):
I was going to read this andthe, what kind of pushed me over
into deciding I was gonna readthis was her interview with
Oprah.
Brett Benner (20:46):
Oh, okay.
And
Renee (20:46):
I do, I don't tend to listen to interviews before I
read the book.
But in this case, listening tothat interview pushed me right
into deciding to read the book.
So I, I loved it.
I loved it.
It's gonna be a favorite of theyear.
So that's the tell by AmyGriffin.
Brett Benner (21:05):
Okay, I'm gonna say this first.
I listened to this on audio.
And I loved it.
And I actually think you likedthis book too.
It's read by the author and hedoes an incredible job.
This book kind of blew me away'cause it's not even that long,
but it so surprised me.
The subject matter.
I.
Which I'll tell you in a second.
But anyway, the book is Twist byColin McCann.
(21:28):
Yes.
And I just thought this thingwas so ingenious.
But it says, A propulsive novelof rupture and repair in the
digital age, delving into ahidden world deep under the
ocean.
So it's basically about thisIrish journalist who gets
assigned to cover this.
Kind of ship captain who theirjob is to take these boats out
(21:51):
and fix under the sea are thesecable lines that.
Carry all of our data andthey're these thin like glass
tubes that are filled with fiberoptic cables.
And look, my limited knowledgethought everything was in the
(22:12):
air, right?
I thought it was all satellites,and that's the way, you know,
cell towers and satellites.
I had no idea.
These all existed in the ocean,and so one of them breaks and
they have to go repair it.
This journalist has his own kindof backstory, and there's a
whole story that starts todevelop between this man that
(22:32):
he's supposed to be covering andhis relationship with his, I
don't remember if it's wife iswho, if it's girlfriend and
she's an actress in London, andof course when these people all
go out in this.
Boat, they're on this boat untilthey find the break and fix it.
So it can be a while becauseit's not that easy.
I, I found it so incrediblyinteresting and propulsive.
(22:55):
I just thought it was great.
And again, wasn't that long.
So I was, I was riveted to theaudio, but I went out this week
and bought the, bought a copy ofthe book'cause I just thought
this thing is, is fantastic.
So it's twisted by Colin McCann.
Renee (23:09):
I second that it, I almost brought that as one of my
surprise reads.
Mm-hmm.
I agree with everything yousaid.
And also the author just killedthe narration.
Killed it, which doesn't.
Hardly ever happened.
I know.
With fiction, right?
At first I was like, oh no, theauthor's narrating.
(23:31):
I know, but he was brilliant.
Yeah.
He did it.
It it was so good.
And I'm the same as you.
I had no idea that, that thoseran along the bottom of the
ocean.
And how Ter, it's terrifying tothink.
That because he did bring up,you know, acts of terrorism and
(23:54):
Yeah, like what would happen if,you know, a lot of those were
destroyed and are reliant on theinternet, the banking systems,
you know, like it could be adisaster.
And I was listening to thatbook, thinking, oh my gosh, like
what a scope of information thathe covered.
(24:16):
But he made it in, in.
He made it so riveting, but tothink about the ramifications of
this, it was fascinating.
And also the, the ship captain,I'm blanking on his name.
Brett Benner (24:32):
I could tell you.
Renee (24:33):
But the fact that he was a free diver, I thought that was
really fascinating.
Brett Benner (24:38):
John Conway.
Renee (24:39):
Yeah, John.
Okay.
Wasn't that interesting aboutthe free diving
Brett Benner (24:43):
the, the free diving.
I was gonna mention that too,that I literally, again, it was
all due to the writing and hisreading where I found myself
like driving the car, clutchingthe wheel.
How
Renee (24:53):
you know?
Brett Benner (24:54):
Thinking when they were talking about like the
bends and just the pressure and,and that feeling in your lungs.
You've gotta get up and can youget up in time and Oh my God,
it, I, I really was, I thoughtit was, it's everything to me.
A good book should do, it shouldbe informative.
It should be riveting.
It should have great characters.
I thought it was great.
Renee (25:14):
Yeah.
Okay.
Second.
Oh, that's a good one.
Okay.
All right.
My next.
My next favorite is a Backlist,and it is the Island of Missing
Trees by LF Shaak.
I listened to this one.
I kind of did a combination.
I mostly listened and I thoughtthe audio was, was just
fantastic.
(25:34):
This is about two teenagers, aGreek CPR and a Turkish cpr, and
they meet at a tavern on theisland.
They both call home.
And at some point a tragedyensues, and then decades later,
one of them returns, searchingfor a native species, but also a
(25:56):
lost love.
It.
Okay.
This was, I had such aninteresting reading experience
with this book because reallythat right there is exactly
something I would like.
I love a complicated love story.
I love a bittersweet love story.
I love all of that.
And I started this book on audioand I ended up reaching a point
(26:19):
where I was like, I don't knowif I'm into this.
I it, there's also a.
Another perspective in the book,which is a fig tree.
And I, I was quite intrigued bythat.
But there was, I don't know whatit was.
I, I don't know what, what mymood was like.
Okay, I'm gonna set this downfor a couple days.
(26:42):
I don't know if it's a DNF.
Well, turns out I picked it.
I could not stop thinking aboutthe fig tree, so I picked it
back up like two or three dayslater and just kept on going.
And I absolutely loved it.
And I really especially lovedthe fact that the trig, the fig
tree, had her own perspective.
(27:02):
Mm-hmm.
She was an all-knowingphilosophical narrator.
She knew the whole story, butshe only gave it to the reader.
You know, in bits and pieces.
Yeah.
Which was brilliant.
It was such a brilliantstructure and it was a
bittersweet love story.
And I love, I just, I reallyloved it and I, I really loved
(27:24):
her writing, but sometimes,sometimes you have to sit with
something and you have to bepatient, which I learned, like,
I have to be patient and I haveto, to stay with the story.
So my, my reading intuition.
Called me back to this and Ijust, I loved it.
And who knew that a fig treewould capture me in 2025?
(27:50):
Have you read this one?
Brett Benner (27:51):
I did read it, yeah.
I loved this book.
I loved this book.
But it's funny'cause I read itlong enough that I was hearing
it.
I was like, oh yeah.
Renee (27:58):
Do you remember the fig tree
Brett Benner (27:59):
completely?
Yeah, I think she's anincredible writer.
In fact, I just read the first,very first thing I read this
year was, was her, her latestbook, which has gone outta my
head.
The Rivers, yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Is that right?
Okay.
Yes.
Yes.
I think she's a, I think she's abrilliant writer.
She's also an incredible thinkerand, um, point of view what
(28:23):
she's saying about the world.
I think she's truly gifted and akind of amazing woman.
Yeah.
She's
Renee (28:30):
on, she has a sub stat newsletter.
Brett Benner (28:32):
Oh, she does?
Mm-hmm.
Renee (28:34):
Yeah, so I, maybe I'll, I would love to connect with her
sometime, but I downloaded hernew book.
So I will, I'll check that outat some point.
Brett Benner (28:43):
Yeah, it's epic and beautiful and genius.
She's incredibly smart.
That's a great choice.
Okay, so my next, I'm trying tothink which one I'm gonna do.
Alright.
My next book was something thatI'd really wanted to read this
year when it first came out andI didn't get to it immediately
(29:06):
and then, and then I read it andI flipped.
Out over it, which isWoodworking by Emily St.
James.
This is a book, it's sointeresting because it's about a
teacher in Mitchell, SouthDakota who has decided to
transition from male to female.
(29:26):
So when the book opens,everything leads you to believe,
and this is not really aspoiler, but everything leads
you to believe that they havealready transitioned and they're
a woman.
But none of it's happened yet.
So.
They are presenting still as aman.
And it's not until you get alittle further in the book that
you realize, oh my gosh, he isstill he.
(29:49):
But what happens is there is astudent in.
His class who is trans, who ismale to female, who has gone
much further along and theyforge this kind of unlikely
relationship, friendship, wherethis student kind of is
shepherding the teacher along.
Now, the student whose name isAbigail is this very smart mouth
(30:13):
sassy, take no prisoners, nobullshit.
Kind of character and theteacher has an ex-wife'cause
they've broken up, so she's init as well.
And so there's all thesecharacters that kind of come
into it.
The young girl, Abigail, the thestudent, she has a boyfriend who
is.
(30:33):
Has been adopted from China andhis parents, the, the, the
adopted kid are kind of pillarsin the community, but also very
conservative when this is aconservative town.
So it's kind of what happenswith all of these characters
come together.
This is what I loved about thebook because of everything
that's happening in the US rightnow and how these attacks about
(30:54):
trans people, which are soridiculous and so absurd.
For anyone who wants to kind ofunderstand in any capacity what
it's like for a person whorealizes that they're in the
wrong body.
This is the book to get.
It's not didactic, it's notheavy handed.
(31:15):
In fact, so much of it is sofunny that it really could play
like a, almost like a.
Comedy'cause it's really, reallyfunny, but also extremely
moving.
Everyone that I've told to getthis book has absolutely loved
it.
I just think it's, it's sofantastic and, and, and in a lot
of ways I look at it as a, as anecessary book.
(31:37):
I just think it's great.
So that's Woodworking by EmilySt.
James.
Renee (31:40):
Okay, good.
That's, I don't even know ifI've heard of that.
That's right under the radar.
Brett Benner (31:47):
It came out like three or four weeks ago in an
easy, funny, I think you'd loveit.
Renee (31:52):
Okay.
And the audio was good.
Brett Benner (31:55):
I had friends who, just two different friends who
just did the audio and theysaid, it's great.
And it's like, well, it's not afull cast.
There's more than one people.
And Emily St.
James reads one of thecharacters, the author.
So I don't know.
I don't know which one she does,but anyway.
Okay.
Renee (32:09):
Alright.
Good.
Yeah.
Okay.
My, my next one is.
Is nonfiction.
I mean, I know.
I was like, should I bring twononfiction?
But.
It.
Narrowing, narrowing, narrowingdown five I had, it's gotta be
there.
So it's unreasonablehospitality.
Mm-hmm.
(32:29):
The remarkable power of givingpeople more than they expect by
Will Gera.
Mm-hmm.
And like I said, now.
This is a nonfiction businessbook, which I would never have
thought I would read, let alonewould be a favorite, but oh my
gosh, was this so good?
I listened to this one, and thisis about Will and the fact that
(32:53):
when he was 26, he took over thehelm of 11 Madison Park in New
York City, which at the time wasa struggling two star
restaurant.
And then.
11 years later, it was named thebest restaurant in the world.
Wow.
And how did that happen?
(33:14):
And you have to read to findout, but this was.
So good.
And I love stories about NewYork City, especially New York
City, fine dining and behind thescenes of restaurant life.
That's just a, a sub genre thatI really love.
So I didn't really know how muchthis was about fine dining.
(33:38):
I, I've never heard of 11Madison Park.
I haven't either, so I loved it.
It's, it's behind the scenes,but it's also.
It's also a really broader lookat what it means to be
hospitable and what does thatmean to be unreasonably
hospitable.
(33:59):
And it made me think not only, Imean, as someone who puts
content into the world, I mean,we all could.
Could benefit from somethingthat he talked about, but also I
love, but from a customerservice perspective, what I was
listening to parts of this and Iwas like, gosh, this is really
(34:21):
making me realize.
How much I, how much poorcustomer service I accept, like,
why am I tipping people who havenot given me good customer
service?
And so it, it, it just makes youthink about a lot.
And, but I will say like, Imean, I love the behind the
(34:43):
scenes of fine dining and how hewas, he was so laser focused.
On making that restaurant numberone, and I love to read stories
about underdogs and people whohave these outrageous goals.
(35:03):
And are able to achieve it.
I think that's fascinating andthat is what this book is about.
And I do wanna shout outMeredith from currently reading,
because she reviewed this, I, Iwanna say last summer on
currently reading.
And I had not heard of it.
I don't think it would'vecrossed my path.
And at first when I heard thetitle, when she talked about it,
(35:26):
I was like.
Like, okay, well, I, I'm gonnalisten because I, I pay close
attention to what Meredithreviews, but then once I heard
her full review, I immediately,I was like, I'm adding that to
my TBR, and I just got to it inJanuary and I loved it.
It's a favorite of the year.
I also, I listened to it, but Ibought a print copy because I
(35:51):
have so much to highlight.
There's.
There's just so, so much lifewisdom in this book.
So that's unreasonablehospitality, the remarkable
power of giving people more thanthey expect by Will Guera.
Brett Benner (36:05):
That sounds great, and I've not heard of it at all.
I love that.
Okay, my next one is another onethat I, I ended up buying after
I, I didn't listen to this.
I, I read it on.
My Kindle and I was like, oh, Iwant this in my library.
It is The Antidote by KarenRussell.
Like a million years ago, I readSwamplandia, which was one of
(36:27):
her first books, and I kind ofremember the cover had an
alligator on it, and I don'tremember the book resonating
with me in any way, but at thetime, back then, I think the
majority of what I was readingwasn't kind of the fic, but I'd
heard enough about.
This new book, which soundedinteresting to me and it really
is.
And I think even though it haselements of magical realism in
(36:51):
it, it's a pretty linearstorytelling.
But it's set during it set in aNebraska during the Dust Bowl,
first of all, she's such abeautiful, incredibly
descriptive writer, but it'seffectively five characters.
And the first is a young.
A girl who was being raised byher single mother who gets
murdered, and she ends up goingto live with her uncle, who is
(37:14):
another one of the characters.
Then.
Into this story.
The antidote is actually aprairie witch, which I guess
these people existed, but herrole is effectively, you go to
this woman when you want to getrid of a memory.
If there's something you can'tdeal with or you just don't want
(37:35):
to think about anymore, you kindof unburden yourself to her and
she quote unquote banks it andtakes it from you and you
forget.
And so.
All of these characters pathsbegin to cross.
And then a young black womanshows up in the town who is a
(37:55):
photographer who is working forthe government to record America
at this point during thedepression and the Dust Bowl,
but her camera has this specialability to be able to.
See things that are no longerthere.
And one of the things that thecamera starts to pick up on is
(38:19):
the indigenous people that livedon the land that the Americans
drove out.
So I.
A, a large part of the biggerstory here is about
colonization, but it's alsoabout power and corruption.
Mm-hmm.
So there's a lot going on, andI've made it sound almost more
(38:41):
complicated than it is, but.
All of these stories kind ofweaved and they all kind of come
together.
I thought it was amazing.
It's epic, but also intimate.
All of these characters were sofascinating to me.
It's incredible how relevantsome of it is, even with things
(39:01):
happening today in terms ofpolitics, in terms of how
absolute power causes absolutecorruption.
I'm gonna say great yarn,
Renee (39:10):
but it really
Brett Benner (39:10):
is.
So that's the antidote by KarenRussell.
Renee (39:14):
Okay.
Ooh.
Yeah, I, that sounds, thatsounds interesting.
Okay, so I have saved my topbook for last.
Brett Benner (39:22):
Okay.
Okay.
And it
Renee (39:23):
is Slanting Towards the Sea by Sia Hill, Jay, and it
comes out July 8th.
Okay.
So summer book, but get yourpre-orders in, because I really
hope that this is.
Quote unquote, a popular summerread.
But this one is a set over 20years, so it's spanning 20 years
(39:48):
and one life altering summer inCroatia.
And it is an unforgettable lovestory and a powerful exploration
of what it means to come of agein a country younger than
oneself.
So, like I said, at its core, itis a complicated love story.
It revolves around Ivana and hergreat love, Val.
(40:11):
It's also a father daughter lovestory, and it is a love story of
one's homeland and of newbeginnings.
There are a lot of themes goingon in this story, but that it,
it adds so much depth to what isalready.
A beautiful story.
(40:33):
Her writing for me was literaryperfection.
It is.
Wow.
Gorgeous.
I love her writing.
This is a debut.
I read this by the pool inCancun in February.
I think it is a perfect likesummer, beach read, pool, read.
(40:54):
And it's different.
It's unique.
I mean, there are a lot of lovetriangles in happening.
I think in literature this, thisfirst quarter, I mean, we've got
Dream State by Eric Puchner
Brett Benner (41:07):
which I still have to read, broken
Renee (41:08):
Country by Claire Leslie Hall.
This is also a, there is a lovetrial, love triangle aspect to
the story, but it's differentthan the others.
I love a love triangle.
I, I mean, if you tell methere's a love triangle, I don't
need to know anything else aboutthis story.
You're like,
Brett Benner (41:26):
you had me at Love Triangle.
You.
That's it.
Renee (41:28):
And I really like the unique angle that the author
took with this story.
And there's also a really an odeto, to.
Nature and the land.
There's just so much.
I really think people who enjoyliterary fiction especially are
(41:52):
going to love this book.
It is Slanting Towards the Seaby Sia Hill.
Jay,
Brett Benner (41:58):
I'm, I am so in.
I am so in.
Oh gosh.
You
Renee (42:00):
have to pull up the cover.
The cover's gorgeous.
There's a really great storythat she tells about the
serendipity of getting thatcover.
Brett Benner (42:11):
I'm typing so fast.
I'm like, oh, there it is.
Oh, wow.
Beautiful.
Renee (42:16):
And that the, the cover is illustrated by a Croatian
artist, and they didn't knoweach other, but just, it's, it's
a great story.
Brett Benner (42:27):
Oh, that's awesome.
All right.
I'm so in.
Okay, so my last that I amfocusing on is also, it's not
out yet.
This is going to be out April15th.
It is a fiction debut, althoughthe author has published other
works and we were talking aboutthat earlier.
Some people have other things.
(42:48):
So this is actually his, hisfiction debut.
The book is called Open Heaven.
The author is Sean Hewitt.
He's an Irish writer, SeanHewitt.
Wrote a biography a few yearsago called All Down Darkness
Wide, which I read before this,which was also fantastic about
him being in a relationship withsomeone with an addiction
(43:08):
problem and what kind ofhappened.
He is a poet, first andforemost, and I have, first of
all, I love Irish writers.
I just think they write suchincredible books and I'm also
such a big fan of.
Poets who then write prosebecause I think it's, it's
absolutely beautiful.
Like Garth Greenwell and OceanVuoung, and this is another
(43:29):
example of that.
So this is like this simplestory.
It it's, it's a very, not a verylong book, but it's about this
young boy named James, who'sliving in a very small town
who's shy, 16 years old, kind ofcoming to terms with his
sexuality and realizing he'sgay.
And one day.
(43:50):
He is his father forces him toget a job working on a milk
delivery truck where the guy inthe town kind of drives him
around.
He runs up and puts the milk onthe porch, and there is at the
neighbor's house, a new youngguy who's there helping out, who
apparently is quote unquotetroubled.
And this boy's parents have senthim to live with, I, I think
(44:12):
it's his uncle and his aunt tokind of get it together for the,
for the summer, for the year.
So they.
Develop a friendship, and so thebook is really about this young
kid who really falls desperatelyin love with this guy.
Who is straight.
So there's no, there's no chancethat it's going to develop into
(44:35):
this blossoming romance.
It, it really is very much, if Ihave one adjective to attach to
this book, it's longing and theentire book so incredibly well
captures that feeling that youhave when you are.
So enamored with somebody, buthow does it get reciprocated or
(45:00):
how does it get returned in away that is satisfying and
fulfilling, and how does it not?
How do you not upend the applecart by either pushing something
too far or confessing something?
It's so.
Heartbreaking and beautiful, andso self-assured and just really,
really gorgeous and kind of theway that like Call Me By Your
(45:22):
Name is gorgeous and I justthought it was, I think he's
such a crazy, talented writerand just a simple, really
beautiful debut.
I loved it.
Okay, so that's Open Heaven bySean Hewitt, and it will be out
April 15th.
So
Renee (45:38):
pre-order.
Brett Benner (45:40):
Ooh.
Renee (45:41):
Okay.
I am going to, I'm gonna getright on net galley when we're
finished.
Yeah.
Because I know I've seen that,but I know I've seen the cover,
but for whatever reason, I, Ididn't even like read the
synopsis or anything, but I lovewhat you had to say.
And I'm also now wondering whathappens.
(46:01):
Yeah, it's, I wanna know what,what happens when you're in that
situation and does he.
Ru, like I'm assuming maybe theyend up friends, but do you ruin
a friendship?
And I need, I'm just, I'm verycurious.
Yeah, no, it's great.
About this story.
Okay.
Ooh, those are some really great
Brett Benner (46:23):
choices.
They
Renee (46:23):
are choices.
Brett Benner (46:24):
Okay.
No, wait.
You had one, you had two.
Talk about the surprise for you.
Renee (46:28):
Okay.
I have two and I'll be quickbecause I can decide on just
one.
So the first book that, thatreally surprised me.
Was Raising Hair, A memoir byChloe Dalton.
Brett Benner (46:39):
It, it's so funny 'cause I almost did the same
Renee (46:41):
one.
Really?
Yeah.
I didn't know you read this.
Oh my gosh.
That's my one
Brett Benner (46:44):
nonfiction.
Yeah.
Renee (46:45):
Oh, oh, I love that.
Okay, so I love animals.
That's not too surprising to me,but what is surprising to me.
Is the fact that this is aboutso much more than just a woman
who decide who, who makes achoice to help an injured hair
one day.
I mean, that is what she did.
(47:06):
But I was so surprised by howunique this story actually is
and when it, it's described as amagical, true story of a woman
in an injured hair.
Who taught her how to liveagain.
And it is exactly that.
And when I finished, I thought,oh my gosh, this is, this is a
time when the pub, when thepublisher's use of the word
(47:31):
magical actually really applies.
Mm-hmm.
I loved everything about thisstory and I almost, I almost did
not pick it up because I wasworried.
I, I tend to worry thatsomething bad.
Is gonna happen where I cannotread about it.
But thanks to Katie, a basicbees guide who let me know that
(47:52):
not only I would like it, but Iwould be okay reading it.
So I'm here to tell everyoneelse you don't, you'll be okay
if you are, you know, worriedabout animal, sensitive, about
the right, if you're sensitiveto animal, animal stories.
But, and, and it's beautiful.
I loved it.
It's so beautiful.
It surprised me in.
(48:13):
Just about every way, thestorytelling, what, what her
experience actually ended upbeing.
I'm trying not to spoil anythingabout the story, but what
actually ended up happening wasamazing.
Brett Benner (48:29):
Have you been to her?
Have you been to her Instagram?
Renee (48:32):
No, I haven't been.
Oh my
Brett Benner (48:33):
God.
Oh my God.
You have to go to her Instagram.
Oh my gosh.
'cause she has all of thepictures and videos and you see
the hair and it, it, that scene,that hair, I was so moved.
Like I.
I don't know.
I just was like, I listened tothis on audio and basically one
(48:54):
shot like driving,'cause it'snot a long book.
Mm-hmm.
Driving from Los Angeles to thedesert and I just kind of like
was enveloped and it's, I don'tknow if you listened to it or
read it.
I
Renee (49:04):
listened to it.
Okay.
And then, yeah.
And she is
Brett Benner (49:06):
phenomenal.
The woman who reads it.
Right.
And there's also a greatafterwards where she interviews
the author, which I loved.
Mm-hmm.
Renee (49:13):
I did
Brett Benner (49:14):
too.
I just was so kind of wrapped upin her voice and I was so there,
but I'm telling you, you'vegotta go into Instagram'cause
you'll like it.
It brings it all into like 3D,you know what I mean?
Renee (49:28):
Okay, I will do that.
I, I saw a picture of the actualhare but it wasn't on her
Instagram, so I need to go back.
I didn't even think about goingto Instagram.
Yeah, yeah.
I will do that.
And
Brett Benner (49:39):
so I just got lost.
I like went down and then I waslike, I want a hare
Renee (49:44):
well, I will, I'll share with you, I just finished this
morning listening to herinterview.
On the Poured over podcast.
Okay.
Just Barnes and Noble and itwas, it was really good.
It's a good interview.
Brett Benner (49:56):
I just saw it was just shortlisted for the women's
prize for nonfiction.
Oh really?
So it just got short?
Yeah, it just got shortlistedfor that.
I think we're gonna see more ofit and I bet by the end of the
year it's gonna be on a lot ofyear end lists for nonfiction.
Just'cause I think it, I thinkit is touching a lot of people
who are discovering it.
(50:16):
But I think it's helping thatwe're talking about it.
'cause Yeah, I think it's greatand I think it needs, you know,
it's one of those things whereyou want it to have a bigger
audience.
Renee (50:23):
Yes, absolutely.
Okay, so I'll tell you reallyquickly.
Sure.
My other surprise book is BlueLight Hours by Bruna Dantes
Lovato, which is a debut, cameout in 2024, but I just read it
in in January.
So it's the debut novel of ayoung Brazilian woman's first
(50:43):
year in America.
A continent away from her lonelymother and the relationship they
build over Skype across likecall, over Skype, calls across
borders.
The reason this is so surprisingfor me is because it's, it's 192
pages and I never expected tolove a book that is basically a
(51:12):
mother and daughter talkingacross Skype.
And that's what happened.
And not a lot happens, but somuch happens.
It packs a really powerfulemotional punch.
Her writing just made me stop inmy tracks several times.
I listened to this.
It's beautiful.
(51:32):
And so shout out to SarahHildreth, who really championed
this book and.
So Sarah is a reader I trust ingeneral, but whenever she raves
about a mother-daughter book,which she did in the fall for
this one, I put it, you know,right into my TBR and I pulled
it out in January and I'm justso, so surprised at what the
(51:57):
author was able to do in only192 pages.
So that's Blue Light Hours byBruna Dantes Lovato.
Brett Benner (52:06):
That sounds great.
Renee (52:07):
I think you would like it.
What surprised you?
Brett Benner (52:11):
My surprise is a backlist book, which which came
out last year and it's funnybecause I was sent a copy of it
from Celadon and never read it,but never got rid of it because
the cover intrigued me so much,and it's called Devil Is Fine by
John Cher.
And then this year it was longlisted for the Aspen Words
(52:36):
prize.
And Aspen Words Prize is, isactually one of my favorite of
the lit prizes.
You know, their whole thing isto showcase stories that
represent the human experience.
And so when it was on there andI had it, I was like, oh, this
is perfect.
I'm gonna read it.
And.
First of all, I'm gonna show youthe cover, which our, which our
(52:56):
listeners can't see it, but it'sa group of jellyfish, which
looks like dirt in the middle.
And so I had no sense of what itwas.
I'll read you this little blurb.
It says, from acclaimednovelist, John Vercher a
poignant story of what it meansto be a father, a son, a writer,
and a biracial American fightingto reconcile the past.
So effectively what it is, isit's about this.
(53:18):
Father, who's also, he's awriter who is struggling with
his next book.
His son has tragically died,which we don't know how that
will reveal itself later.
He's since split up with hiswife.
He, when his son dies, he findsout that his father had left his
(53:39):
property down south to his son.
And so since his son is nolonger alive, he is going to
collect on it.
But when he arrives down southto this house, they find in the
backyard human remains and Ohwow.
(54:01):
It seems that.
His, the house and this propertywas a plantation that held
slaves and so it's this man kindof coming to terms with his
ancestors' past, while alsocoming to terms with his son's
death.
It is really good.
(54:24):
I listened to it on audio and ittook me a moment to kind of tap
in a little bit because of thereader, but.
Ultimately, I, I loved hisreading of it.
It just took me a little bit toget into his voice, into the
rhythm of it, which happenssometimes with, with books, with
books on tape, I should say.
But ultimately, I thought.
(54:45):
Uh, this is something I newouldn't have necessarily even
picked up.
I'm so glad I held onto it and,and again, that's why I'm
thankful so many times for thesebook prizes because they do
highlight things that you think,okay, well enough people think
it's worthy.
Lemme check it out.
And it absolutely was.
So a, a, a really engaging,moving and at times very funny
(55:06):
book as well, but reallyinteresting cast of characters.
Good book Devil Is Fine by JohnVercher
Renee (55:12):
oh, okay.
I've never heard of that.
And, and I will
Brett Benner (55:15):
say this, my big question when I started into it
was I was like, what are thejellyfish?
It'll all make sense.
Renee (55:19):
Okay.
Yeah.
When you said the title, I wouldnever have have thought that it
would have jellyfish on thecover.
No.
Brett Benner (55:27):
Well, I kept thinking like, why?
This is about a man who goesRight.
And it, it all comes out, so
Renee (55:31):
Okay.
But very interesting.
It's eye catching.
Brett Benner (55:34):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And
Renee (55:35):
oh, I love that.
Okay.
And you made me realize I needto go check out the Aspen.
Brett Benner (55:40):
Yeah, they just, I think they're on their, they
have their short list now.
Okay.
So, and I've read I think fiveof the six.
There's one I haven't read yet,but it's a, it's a decent list
this year.
Well, this has been so amazingas usual and I think we've given
our listeners a treasure troveof of books to explore and check
out and get and read.
(56:00):
Yes and yes.
I think we're gonna have to doat at least probably another
halfway point, check in to seeif things change and if things
knock out.
I love that when you say to dowould love to,
Renee (56:11):
to do that.
Brett Benner (56:12):
So thank you.
So much for being here.
Always a pleasure talking toyou.
We can go on forever, so youknow when you get talking about
books.
Renee (56:21):
I know.
Well, thanks for having me and Iwill look forward to checking in
with you in the future.
Brett Benner (56:27):
Absolutely.
And of course I will have all ofRenee's information below if you
don't already have her.
Where to follow her, where tofind her.
Check out her substack for sure.
And of course my bookshop.orgpage will have all of the titles
we've talked about, so you cancheck that out as well.
But alright, Renee, I will seeyou soon.
Renee (56:47):
Okay, see you later.
Bye.
Brett Benner (56:49):
Thank you everybody for listening, and
once again, if you're likingwhat you're hearing, please
consider liking and subscribingat your podcast platform of
choice and also consider leavinga review.
Reviews are incredibly helpfulin getting podcasts seen and
making sure that they have amore prominent position on these
(57:10):
platforms, so I would reallyappreciate it.
Okay, everybody, I'll see younext week.
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