May 13, 2025 • 51 mins
In this episode Brett sits down with Jemimah Wei to talk about her debut book, "The Original Daughter". They discuss the competitive Singapore educational system, the currency of self in social media, and the importance of telling your own stories.
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https://jemmawei.com/
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https://www.instagram.com/jemmawei/
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Brett Benner (00:00):
Hey everybody, it's Brett Benner and welcome or
(00:01):
welcome back to another episodeof Behind the Stack.
Wow.
This is a massive release dayfor books, so I just wanted to
dive right in'cause I just can'teven believe how many good ones
there are.
The first, the Emperor ofGladness by Ocean Ong.
Ocean Vong returned to the bighearted novel about chosen
family, unexpected friendship,and the stories we tell
(00:23):
ourselves in order to survive.
I think this book is everywhere.
It's gonna be everywhere.
I am looking at a copy of itnow, which I wanted so badly to
have already read.
But anyway, I, I can't wait forthis one.
Also out today is The Devil's byJoe Abercrombie.
This I am reading right now.
I'm three quarters of the waythrough it, doing this on audio.
(00:43):
For those of you who like afantasy book, it is so fantastic
and it is completely ticklingthat part of my psyche that
loves a good fantasy with a bigdollop of humor.
This is about a group of.
(01:05):
This is about a group ofessentially monsters who have
been hired by a very young popeto place a rightful princess on
the throne and the journey ofgetting there.
But when I say monsters, it's avampire, it's a werewolf, it's
an elf, and they're all soincredibly well drawn.
It feels a little reminiscent tome of the show.
The boys on Amazon.
(01:27):
But it is so, so, so great, andapparently it's the first in a
series, so I, I've never read aJoe Abercrombie book before, but
it's truly a delight.
So that's out today.
Then for my Thriller fans, AlexNorth's new book, the Man Made
of Smoke.
I loved the Whisper Man, butweirdly haven't read anything
else by Alex North.
(01:48):
So really excited for this one.
Then for all the nonfiction fansout there, Ron Chernow's, mark
Twain is finally out a.
Massive tome where biographerRon Chernow illuminates the full
fascinating and complex life ofthe writer along celebrated as
the Father of Americanliterature.
(02:09):
So those are just some of thebooks out today that are
interesting to me.
Obviously there are plenty more,but check those ones out.
Okay, so now onto today'sauthor.
I had such a wonderfulconversation with Jemima Way for
her new book, the OriginalDaughter She Is.
Just so charming, smart, andcompelling.
(02:31):
Let me tell you a little bitabout her and the book.
It is a Good Morning AmericaBook Club.
Pick a New York Times editor'spick an Indie next pick.
It debuted at number one on theStraits Time bestseller list and
has been named a best book ofSpring 2025 by Harper's Bazaar l
Vogue Time Apple Books.
And more.
(02:51):
She is a 2025 National BookFoundation 535 Honoree, a 2022
for Stegner Fellow at StanfordUniversity, a 2020 Philippe p
Alba Fellow at ColumbiaUniversity, and a Francine
Ringle Award for new writershonoree.
Her fiction has won the WilliamVan Dyke short Story Prize and
has been published in narrativeGuernica.
(03:14):
Joy Land among others.
She's been nominated for thePushkar Prize, recognized by the
best of the net anthologies, andreceive and received
scholarships from Singapore'sNational Arts Council, Breadloaf
Writers Conference, SuwaneeWriters Conference, and Columbia
University where she earned herMFA.
She's currently a senior proseeditor at the Massachusetts
(03:37):
Review and divides her timebetween Singapore and New York
City.
So please enjoy this episode of.
Behind the stack.
I am so thrilled to be sittingdown with Jemima Way today,
whose brand new book.
It surprised me in so many waysand I had no idea what I was
(04:00):
getting into, socongratulations.
It's just absolutely stunning.
Jemimah Wei (04:04):
Thank you.
Thank you so much for having meon the show, Brad.
And also I love seeing all thepost-its flagging out of your
book and.
It was, it's very meaningful tome to hear readers, you know,
hear that the book resonateswith readers because I've been
alone with this book for so longthat.
Doing her own thing in the worldand meeting readers on their own
terms is really incredible tome.
(04:25):
So thank you so much for yourkind words.
Brett Benner (04:27):
No, it's, it's such a cool thing because I have
this conversation with writers alot because you have, you've
spent so much time, it's likewith your baby, right?
And suddenly to put it out inthe world, like you said,
meeting readers on their ownterms, but it becomes a life of
its own and it's such adifferent experience.
And so I can't help but thinkit's.
It's, it's exciting, but it'salso a little scary just to
(04:48):
watch it launch off.
So usually I have to tell you,when I start my episodes, I
always give a bio and talk aboutthe author.
But some of it I thought today Ihad to do it in front of you
because I was so blown away.
And like I said, before westarted recording, I really went
down this Jemima wormhole, whichwas really fun.
(05:09):
And I was watching interviewsand I was watching some of your
acting.
And, uh.
As well as just reading a lot ofyour stuff.
First of all, I have to tell youthat Dan Michel Norris was on a
few weeks ago and I reached outto her this week and I said, Jem
is coming on this week.
And she was like, I'm soobsessed with her.
I'm so obsessed with her.
And now I really wish,'cause I'min LA, that I would've really
(05:30):
wish I would've seen the panelwith the both of you.
Jemimah Wei (05:33):
Oh, I love that, Michelle.
Yeah.
Brett Benner (05:35):
Yeah.
So if your ears were burning,should be speaking very highly
of you, but you were the firstSingaporean to be awarded the
Stegner Fellowship.
And for anyone who doesn't know,the Stegner Fellowship is
awarded annually to five poetsand five fiction writers, and
the fellowships include astipend and working with artists
who meet weekly for workshopswith the faculty of Stanford's
writing program.
(05:55):
And I'd love this quote fromthem and, and again, just.
Speak so highly to you and yourwork.
In awarding fellowships, weconsider the quality of the
candidate's creative workpotential for growth and ability
to contribute to and profit fromour writing workshops.
So.
Congratulations on that, whichI'm sure thank you was just an
(06:15):
incredible experience.
Jemimah Wei (06:17):
Yeah.
Brett Benner (06:17):
You were also recently named by the National
Book Foundation, one of theirfive under 35 for this book and
for the National BookFoundation.
It says they, they award this toa, a works of fiction that
promises to leave a lastingimpression on the literary
landscape.
So amazing.
It's also been chosen as a MayIndie next title, so
(06:41):
congratulations on that as well.
I want to go back before we getinto the book and ask you, did
you always know you wanted to bea writer?
I.
Jemimah Wei (06:48):
Yeah, but my definition of that was a little
different, I think from most,um, people I've spoken to
because it's not that I don'thave imposter syndrome, I do
have that, but growing up inSingapore, just like the idea of
being an author was so far awaythat it just didn't seem within
the realm of possibility.
So I, I was never plagued bythe, oh, can I write?
Because to me, writing is anaction word.
(07:09):
You're a writer because you'reright.
It's just like, it's my sitdown.
It doesn't, it doesn't, itdoesn't feel like married to the
reality of publishing for me.
Only after I, you know, had beenwriting for a long time by
myself in Singapore and thentook the jump, I think to come
to the US did I start thinkingabout, can I be a published
author?
So those are two differentthings, but since I was young, I
(07:31):
just have always rememberedmaking things up, like, and
writing them down and kind oflying awake at night inventing
what I'm gonna, what's.
Story, I'm gonna act out thenext day.
And then harassing my poorparents because I would then
wake up and I'm like, I'm thischaracter now.
And they're like, oh, here we goagain.
Brett Benner (07:47):
You said that when you found out about the
fellowship, that it was justsuch an affirmation for you as
a, as a Singaporean girl whogrew up being told that writing
is an impractical child's dream.
Jemimah Wei (07:56):
Yeah.
Um.
Brett Benner (07:58):
I love that.
I, I love the universality ofthat because I feel like any
kind of artist, any kind ofperson who, whether it's writing
or acting or music, there isthat kind of, um, thing that
you're met with of, of, wellthat's fine, but what are you
gonna do to make money?
And, you know, what are yougoing to do to support yourself?
So I know that you went toColumbia for your MFA, but, but
(08:21):
bridge the gap for me.
Jemimah Wei (08:22):
Mm-hmm.
Brett Benner (08:23):
Like, how did you get up to there?
And I also have to ask, are youan only child?
Jemimah Wei (08:27):
No, I have two younger sisters.
Brett Benner (08:30):
Oh, wow.
Are you guys close?
Jemimah Wei (08:32):
Very close.
That's so, which fun.
It's so fun because everybodykeeps asking me, they're like,
oh, what's like, you know,because this, it's a book about
the Yeah, exactly.
Everyone's like, what's the tea?
And it's really hilarious to mebecause I wasn't thinking as
much about sisters as much as Iwas about, I mean, I was
thinking about sisters, but alsoabout the idea of a child that's
given away and who enters afamily kind of not from birth,
(08:54):
but down the road relationshipis not quite the same as.
My relationship with my sistersand whenever people are asking
me about, oh, you know, like,um, it's a corelation.
I always joke that because Ihave two younger sisters and in
the book it's just two sisters.
I'm like, I'm gonna lock my twosisters in room and let, let'em
(09:14):
duke it out by the title of og.
Brett Benner (09:21):
What is the spread like age spread?
Jemimah Wei (09:24):
Oh, um, my.
My, the next sister is threeyears younger than me, and my
baby is seven years younger thanme.
Wow.
Yeah.
We're, we're close.
We grew up together and youknow, we, we were like living
together very tightly, right uptill I moved to the States.
So up till adulthood and even upto now, you know, we are like
(09:44):
always chatting.
We do kind of like arrange our,now we're in different places,
but we do try and arrange ouryears and our time around, like
trying to be there for eachother's big moments because it's
difficult.
'cause now I'm in the states.
One of my sisters was inAustralia for a long time.
The other one works a job thatmakes her travel a lot.
And so we do have to like bemore intentional about trying to
(10:06):
spend that time together.
But you know, I'm reallygrateful to technology because
we can, we're always yapping onlike Telegram.
Um, and this is something I feelstrongly as an international
writer, right?
Because no matter where I am inthe moment, I'm saying bye to
somebody.
I have great, great friends inNew York.
I have a very strong communityin Singapore and I love a lot of
(10:26):
my friends in the Bay Area.
So every time I move, I feellike I am.
Putting roots and then sayinggoodbye, putting down roots and
saying goodbye.
And so my relationship totechnology, I think in terms of
how grateful you for the abilityto communicate and stay in
people's lives.
Um.
Deep, deep, you know, I feel, Ifeel very, very, very, um,
thankful for technology.
Brett Benner (10:47):
Yeah.
It, I feel like it's one of thegifts of, of modern life, right?
Mm-hmm.
I mean, there's, uh, because Ialways feel like, you know,
social media to me is its ownthing, and I want to talk a
little bit about that a littlelater mm-hmm.
In regards to the book as well.
But, but I do feel like.
Exactly like you said, thisability to be able to reach out
and connect with, with thepeople that we love and care
about in ways that previouslyyou never would've done, you
(11:08):
would've been, you know, writingletters and waiting weeks
Exactly.
To get it or, or like having abad phone connection or any of
these things.
I.
Jemimah Wei (11:16):
Exactly.
And I do feel like people arealways asking me for this like
black or white answer when theysay, what do you think about
technology?
And I'm like, what?
What is that?
To think about it, it's here.
It's in our lives.
Brett Benner (11:25):
Yes.
Jemimah Wei (11:25):
Or people would be like, what do you feel about
social media?
And is it good for us?
And I'm like, well, you know,there it's not a yes or no
answer.
Right.
Brett Benner (11:34):
Sure.
'cause I know we're starting todip in.
Do you have like an elevatorpitch for the book?
Mm-hmm.
Jemimah Wei (11:38):
Yeah, I can.
I can do it.
Okay, let's go.
The original daughter followstwo sisters.
One adopted growing up rapidly,modernizing super stressful and
ultra competitive.
Singapore navigating theirrelationship to, you know,
independence and intimacy ontheir journey to fame fortune.
What happens then is, you know.
Where I come from, being reallyclose to somebody means that
(12:00):
you're all up in their business,even if it makes you wanna die.
And so these sisters and thosefamily have to navigate their
relationship to love andboundaries, even when society
and everything in the worldseems to be designed to push
them into a more individualisticpath.
And so I guess you just have toread the books to find out how
(12:21):
that plays out.
Brett Benner (12:23):
Yes you do.
Yes you do.
Okay.
Now I, you know, you had an MFAin Columbia, but I was like
talking about bridging the gapbetween what happened before
that, like in terms of schoolingand what happened to get you
there.
Um, what was that about?
And I have, but I have somethingI wanna ask you first.
Start to interject that.
How often do you go back toSingapore?
Jemimah Wei (12:44):
Oh, super often.
Brett Benner (12:46):
All the time.
Jemimah Wei (12:47):
Well, I, I try to as much as possible, because
like I said earlier, you know,I, my relationships are very
important to me and I, I feellike I have developed this great
ambition for love in the lastcouple decades, and what it
means to me is trying to bethere for like my friends and
family in person whenever I can.
And that sometimes seems alittle counterintuitive to the
(13:09):
writer's life because so much ofwriting is solitary.
Mm-hmm.
But, and, and then alsoSingapore and New York are
famously, is famously like thelongest line in the world,
right?
So I'm perpetually jet likethat.
I'm always tired because it'salways, it's always like 2:00 AM
somewhere, but it is, I thinkthe tax I am willing to pay on
being like having those likerich and strong relationships.
(13:30):
And being able to do that for aslong as I can.
Obviously, like practicalconsiderations, like financial
considerations and timeconsiderations, and so how long
I'll sustain this.
Be able to be quite invested inboth my life in the States and
in Singapore.
In fact, I was talking'cause itis something that's been
troubling me for a long time.
(13:51):
Like, you know, where do I setdown roots and like make a home.
I don't really have a place I'mbase because as a writer you go
wherever.
The writing calls you like, and,and that's realistic, right?
I would've never thought I wouldmove to the Bay Area, but the
GNA was like, we will have youcome.
And I was like, I will come.
So, you know, if anyonelistening to this podcast, you
know, like wants to host awriteup or fellowship on your
YouTube, please ping me.
(14:12):
I am open.
Right.
And make it
Brett Benner (14:14):
an incredible location, by the way.
Jemimah Wei (14:16):
Oh yeah.
I mean, totally.
So.
I think that really openedthings up for me because I was
like, it is true.
Why am I thinking already?
When you choose to be a writer,you are divorcing yourself from
a, a kind of standardized path,right?
You're divorcing yourself fromany kind of traditional markers
of success or timeline oranything like that.
I.
So then why keep to thosetraditional markets in every
(14:37):
other part of your life, likeyou have already chosen a path
that's slightly different.
And so Chang Ray's conversationto me really made me think,
okay, maybe I don't have to belike saying yes to one means
saying no to another.
Maybe I can try to be there forboth parts of my life for as
long as I can.
And so that's what I'm trying todo for now.
Yeah.
I.
Brett Benner (14:57):
This time.
Now I'm gonna sound like, likeparental, and I don't mean it to
come off that way, but I'm likeyou are.
You are young enough to be ableto do this right now too.
Jemimah Wei (15:04):
Yes.
Brett Benner (15:04):
And I find that sometimes with age becomes
longing for something different.
And you might find, listen, thisis, I feel like this is the
launch off, right?
Mm-hmm.
This is the moment when yourrocket is taking off in such an
incredible way and.
The journey of where it's gonnatake you, who knows?
But I do find a lot of times aspeople begin to age, there
becomes this longing for whatwas familiar and what was known,
(15:27):
and some way, sometimes to goback to what we knew or a
representation of what we knew,if that makes sense.
Jemimah Wei (15:34):
I do expect that that will happen in the years
moving forward.
But I think something that I'vereally tried to hold onto
throughout this entire processof launching a book is I don't
wanna wake up one day, maybe 10years down the road and be like,
those were the good days.
I want to be like, this is thegood day.
I wanna recognize what I havewhen I have it.
And as you said, I'm young, likefamously under 35, and so I can
(15:56):
do this now.
You know, I can, my body cantake it.
It's just.
I am like, you know, it istiring and I don't have that
many commitments where I am, youknow, like tight.
I don't have kids, I don't have,you know, so because of that, I
do feel like for as long as Ican keep it going, I would like
the privilege of being there formy communities on both sides.
(16:16):
And I think also, you know, ifyou, if you zoom out a little
bit, I, I do think to myselfgrowing up.
What examples did I have?
Not that many.
And so it's not just my friendsand family.
I feel very invested in goingback and being there for the,
the burgeoning artists communityin Singapore, the writers,
emerging writers, like I'm amentor with the Singapore Book
Council.
I try to do master classes andas many things as I can every
(16:37):
time I'm back in Singaporebecause.
There is a huge growing artistcommunity there of writers.
Fiction writers in a way that'svery exciting to me.
And I think that it can be verydifficult for somebody from like
an international writer tounderstand what publishing looks
like or understand what it lookslike to launch a book or what it
looks like to build an artistcareer in a sustainable way.
And so I do feel invested inthat.
(16:59):
I don't wanna just be like,okay, this is like just my life
and I'm leaving.
So I think that's part of why Ido feel quite drawn to going
back often.
Brett Benner (17:09):
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, I get it.
And kudos to you and like Isaid, you
Jemimah Wei (17:13):
are
Brett Benner (17:13):
young and you have it, so, so, so do it.
Um, so much of the book isreally, it's about ambition.
Jemimah Wei (17:22):
Mm-hmm.
Brett Benner (17:22):
For both these sisters, Genevieve Yang, and,
and now do you pronounce itAaron or Aaron or how do you
pronounce her name?
Jemimah Wei (17:30):
Oh, I pronounce it Aaron.
Brett Benner (17:31):
Aaron, a RIN.
Mm-hmm.
For our listeners and viewers,but ambition in very different
ways.
Right.
And Jen's, I, I would love totalk about this because I'm
personally unfamiliar with it,but there's this whole, the
academic ambition, right.
And this is the whole culturallylike Singapore.
Can you talk a little bit about,because I'm sure you went
through this mm-hmm.
(17:51):
Yourself, just what that waslike mm-hmm.
And what it was like for her.
And she's incredibly driven to.
To be the best.
Jemimah Wei (18:00):
Yeah.
So that links a little bit toearlier when you asked me to
fill in the gaps, which I keepforgetting to do'cause I keep
getting distracted.
That's okay.
We kept
Brett Benner (18:06):
getting distracted.
Sorry.
That's my fault.
Jemimah Wei (18:08):
No, it's also my fault.
I'm a yapper.
Um, I understand.
But yeah, so you know, I grew upin the Singaporean education
system as it are my characters.
It's extremely stressful becausethere is this idea that we are a
really small country, right?
And you have to be extremelyexcellent in order to survive on
the global stage, which I thinkis something that.
You know, has proven itself to acertain extent, like over the
(18:32):
last couple decades with thedifferent crisis.
Like Singapore's narrative hasalways been, you have to be
extremely excellent in order tosurvive because we have nothing
else going for us.
We're small, we have no naturalresources.
You know, all we have is oursmarts and our r and d and our
ability to like be really goodat navigating international
waters.
And so you grew up with that,you know, like messaging all the
(18:54):
time.
And when you're growing up inSingapore, there are very few
ways where you think toyourself, I can jump.
Jump a class or like escape mycircumstances.
And one of that is this idea oflike a meritocratic academic
society where if you doextremely well, maybe you could
get like a scholarship to couldelevate you that could then
there are like very specificpaths that you could really
(19:14):
track back.
And it's very common for youngpeople to be like, all right,
these are my dreams, goals,these are the way I'm gonna get
it.
These are the scholarships andprograms I wanna get into, and
therefore I'm gonna likeoptimize every single part of my
life.
So that I become the ultimatecandidate for this.
And so it's very common to go toschool, go to like different
kinds of tuition or enrichmentclasses, develop all kinds of
very specific hobbies that couldthen get you into a school a
(19:37):
different way.
So in with, instead of trueresults, you could get into
dragon boating or like singingor like band, you know, by being
like the best.
Everything that you can be.
So the correlation to mypersonal life is I'm a bit of a
nerd.
Like I've always left school.
I don't have that.
I don't have that.
Like, oh, I don't wanna go toschool.
I was like, oh wow.
Look at how fun this is.
Every day.
I gotta go hang out my friendsand learn new things.
(19:58):
So no problem there, you know,nobody had to force me to go to
school, but.
It was really stressful and forme, I was really big on the idea
of a backup plan, so I wasterrified that I wouldn't do
well in school because we aregraded on a bell curve, which is
something I talk very brieflyabout in the book, which means
your grades are not an objectivegrade, they're relative grade.
(20:19):
So you get an A, if you are atop like 10%, that's not a
number grade.
So I could get 99 upon hundredand still not get an A because
you know, like everybody elsegot.
A hundred to 100.
So that means that you areconstantly in competition and it
is, I think, very at theforefront of a lot of students'
minds.
And so for me, I just developedlike extremely niche hobbies.
(20:40):
Like I was a soprano growing upand I got into my junior college
through singing.
I was straight up like Iauditioned outside of like my
grades.
And so I was a direct schooladmission student, so that if I
didn't do well enough to pure,uh, o level results, I could get
into my voice.
And that is what I did.
I.
(21:00):
People do that through all kindsof ways.
And uh, for me, choosing choirwas like the obvious choice
because you don't need to buy aninstrument.
It's very cost efficient.
You just need your voice.
You have to like sing in acorner and train that all day
long.
So you have all this kind oflike training, um, and I.
The, the like golden standard isfrom that generation.
You know, my Singapore's a veryyoung country.
(21:20):
We are turning 60 years here, soit's like three generations of
people and the previousgenerations with this
generation.
Everybody says the same thing.
Get yourself to university.
'cause once you get there, onceyou have a college degree, you
can get a job.
Because that was true of ageneration ago.
It's not true anymore.
Now everybody has a collegedegree and it's so hard to get a
job.
The comp, the job market's socompetitive, but growing up you
(21:42):
didn't think that, you justthought to yourself it would be
worse without a degree.
So everybody's like bustingtheir ass to get to college and
people have mental breakdowns.
It's crazy.
Like I know so many people whojust did not survive the
academic system, who.
Either had like mentalbreakdowns or like, you know,
just like clips outta the systemor, or, or worse.
And, and so to me that wasalways something that I, I don't
(22:04):
think you could write a bookabout growing up in Singapore
without touching on theeducational system then.
I mean, that would just bemagical realism because they're
not like, what isn't stressed,you know, that's.
Oh yeah.
(22:24):
So I was like, you know, thishas to make it in.
And it turned out to be veryrich material for me.
But I think that sense of movingout of an institutionalized
system is very, you know,unmooring and very destabilizing
for a lot of people who aregrown in this system.
'cause you grow with thistrellis, right, of like grades
and like rubrics and metrics,and then you exit into the real
(22:47):
world and you're like, the realworld doesn't give a shit.
Like, all right, you got like.
A for like math, uh, good.
Or you, so can you quote this ornot?
And so a lot of people thenbecome very disillusioned and
kind of lost and thenexistentially lost and
depressed.
And then the bills don't stopcoming.
'cause once you're an adult, allthe bills kick in.
And then so sure you are like,okay, now I need to find a job.
Immediately.
(23:07):
I need to make decisions thatare not really driven by the
kind of life I wanna lead, butdriven by extremely pragmatic
decisions because we are, uh,also like a very community
based.
Society, you know, we, it'squite common to live at home
until you get married.
It's not like in America wherepeople tend to move outta 18 for
college.
And I think that's because we'rea small country.
(23:28):
Like there's no real need tomove anywhere.
Like you can get everywhere fromone end of the country to the
other, but like maximum 45minutes by car.
So where you gonna go?
You know, like rent is expensivesince someone is in high demand.
And so what's the
Brett Benner (23:40):
population?
Jemimah Wei (23:41):
Well, I six.
Brett Benner (23:45):
Wow.
Jemimah Wei (23:45):
Yeah, we're super well populated, which is why all
buildings like grow upwards.
So we have like very highbuildings.
Yeah.
If you live in a house that justhas one story, like, like a
cartoon house, that's like a, areal sign of wealth.
'cause you didn't have to goupwards.
Yeah.
Brett Benner (24:02):
Interesting.
I didn't, but I didn't realizethere were so many people in
that concentrated area.
'cause I thought you were gonnabe like, oh, well it's, you
know, that's, that's amazing.
Jemimah Wei (24:09):
But not only is it like.
Extremely overpopulated, right?
It's a tiny society.
And so there is a sense that youwill want to care for your
parents, like the Asiangeneration.
And so yeah, you'll then, you'llmake decisions moving forward
based on what you want anymore.
You make it based on how can Isupport my family?
How can I, how can I be the bestperson in my community as well?
(24:31):
Um.
I, I don't know, like at a youngage that can be a lot of
self-inflicted and communityinflicted pressure.
That is not deliberate pressure,but it, it exists.
It's like atmospheric pressure.
And also like this is in thebook as well, but because
everybody knows everybody, youknow, there's no seven degrees
of separation in Singapore, it'slike two degrees or three
degrees.
So there is a sense really thatthere, you can't make a misstep,
(24:53):
um, because it's very hard toclimb back on the bandwagon if
you're falling behind.
And also that, you know, there'sno true sense of total anonymity
or.
And I think that is somethingthat really shapes my
character's decisions movingforward in different ways.
Brett Benner (25:07):
Well, and I'm thinking about their, their
living arrangements because, youknow, they, they live in this
house with the parents and thenthe grandmother at the start of
it.
It's a very small area.
It's, and literally there's noprivacy for any of them.
I'm wondering, going back, doyou feel that, in terms of the
(25:27):
school system, in terms of thosepressures, do you think that
that's,'cause we should alsoclarify that this is set in the
nineties in the beginning, butdo you think that some of that's
changed?
Jemimah Wei (25:36):
Yeah, I think they're trying to change, so the
book starts in 1995, and I thinkback then it was like.
Really, really, reallystressful.
And there were repercussions,right?
Like people, there were allthese studies.
I think there was this likeregional study.
It was like, Singaporeans arereally unhappy.
And then so the government gotstressed and they were like, we
are unhappy.
We're not unhappy.
We're really happy actually.
(25:56):
And so they did.
They did recognize that.
It's not sustainable for peopleto be constantly having like
breakdowns how stress they are.
And so there are all thesethings implemented to try and
have like more rest, a morebalanced lifestyle or to move
away from grades, like thegrading system to move away from
awards.
So when, like I mentionedearlier, I used to be a soprano.
The, the competition for that,the highest award, you get goal
(26:16):
with honors and now they don'tdo that anymore.
They just, it's like, you know,it used to be bronze, silver,
gold, gold with honors and theydon't do it anymore because they
don't want to have like an awardsystem type to it.
They moved it away from that.
But I do think that there's.
Like radical systemic change.
People still are aware of thosecompetitive elements and the way
they evaluate, you know, whothey take in for their
(26:37):
internships, the way they takein, who, who they taken for
their jobs still ends up comingdown to like the sense of
competency, which is very, very,very highly valued in Singapore.
I, I do think we are kind offamous for it.
It is the Singaporean brand.
You're super efficient, superresponsible, super productive,
and just like super competent.
And people aren't born that we,they're kind of like meat that
(26:59):
we, yeah.
Yeah.
Brett Benner (27:00):
Well, and this is interesting'cause it segues
almost into Aaron mm-hmm.
In terms of born and made.
Um, because this trajectory ofher character is so fascinating
because this is not a spoilerand we don't, I don't do
spoilers on said, but it's not aspoiler in that she begins to
become.
Famous ultimately as an actress,but in the beginning as a, like
a social media personality.
(27:22):
And this whole thing fascinatedme.
First of all, I have to back upwith you a little bit because as
I was, as I was reading the bookand then diving into you, and
all of a sudden I was watchingyou, you know, do something for
Lineage on one of your, youknow, a photography thing.
So I, I wanted to ask you howthat started for you in terms of
becoming involved in socialmedia and, and, and capitalizing
(27:43):
on it.
Jemimah Wei (27:44):
I was kind of scouted.
And then I started doing areality TV show, and this was
like, I think very, very earlydays.
Um, I think, I think YouTubemaybe wasn't like a massive
thing yet.
I mean, we were still flirtingwith the internet back then.
It wasn't, it wasn't on YouTube,it was on like a, a different
like TV network online.
(28:04):
And later I made a transition toYouTube and I did that for, I
wanna say a good eight years.
So I think I.
I know.
Yeah, so I did, I specialize inlike travel and reality and so I
did that, bought a network.
I did a couple of travel shows.
I moved into doing someproducing and directing writing
scripts that I was interestedin, and I do feel like that
(28:27):
opened up a whole different lifefor me.
I, I had a really, I wanna sayblessed experience.
I was scouted by a woman.
I had very strong femalementors.
I immediately, when I started,was taken under the wing of some
veteran kind of likepersonalities or TV host in
Singapore.
And so I kind of always feltprotected and prepared going
(28:47):
into this.
And even then it waschallenging, you know, to
suddenly be ultra perceived froma young age.
I was, I've always beenextremely fascinated by this
because I feel like.
Back then there was a sense ofpotential and real like
excitement around where thisindustry could go.
You know, there is this sensethat.
To be like a traditionalcelebrity, to be an actress or,
(29:10):
um, you know, a a like a theateractress or a TV actress.
You need to have certain thingsin place, or you need to be
extremely good looking or uniquelooking in a very polished way.
You need to have certain thingsset up in life.
And then to have like otherkinds of careers, you need to
have like privilege ofbackground, of economic
fluidity, of like certain, likeacademic, you know, merits.
(29:35):
With the internet, it almostfelt like you just had to be
really, really interested insomething.
Like you could be like, Ifucking love shoe laces.
Like I'm obsessed with shoelaces.
There are like two 50 of shoelaces, right?
And if you were just limited tothe 30 people in your classroom,
they would be like, oh my God,what a freak.
Like who cares about, who caresabout shoe laser wear Velcro.
(29:57):
But you go on the internet,you're like, I love shoe laser
on Tumblr and like.
2000 people will be like, I alsolove shoe laces.
And one person's in France, oneperson's in Vietnam, one
person's in New York, like, youknow?
And suddenly there's this way tolike a amass.
A great sense of like, I couldhave a niche.
I could have a niche, and all Ineeded is an internet connection
and a voice and an opinion onsomething.
(30:18):
And right now, you know, I thinkwe have moved past that and we
are now in the center.
There's this huge skepticismtowards anything see online.
And I definitely get that.
I feel like it's become sosaturated with.
External branding andinvestment, because I, I
definitely think that that waslike a natural development
because anytime there's a spacewith eyeballs, the brands come
in.
They're like, all right, how canwe capitalize this on this?
(30:38):
And there's just a function ofliving in a hyper capitalistic
society.
But you have like a coupleoptions, right?
You can like, you row the wholething and be like, like Henry
David Toro, and be like, I wannalive in the woods.
Like, I don't wanna live in thissociety.
Oh, you can be like, this is alife I have.
What can I do?
To survive in this life.
And I think that is likesomething that is extremely
Singaporean as well.
(30:58):
Like the sense of like how do wesurvive, how do we adapt and
what does resilience look like?
And I think that looks differentfor everybody.
So for the girls in the boat,one way they think they can move
classes or move out of theirlife circumstances is to tap on
this really new industry and seelike where it can take them.
So they, they try and optimizeit.
(31:21):
They try to optimize every otherpart of their lives to varying
ends and yeah.
So that's my, that's my littleTed talk.
Brett Benner (31:28):
Yeah.
No, you're, you're so right.
But it's so funny because it'sjust the way that so much of
this is almost built intosociety's DNA.
I have a, you know, I have twokids.
My son is older, he is 21, mydaughter is a senior.
But to watch this effect of thesocial media and the influencers
(31:50):
on her in particular has been soincredibly fascinating and.
You know, beyond the obvious,which I'm gonna say, which was
for many young girls in America,it's the Kardashians, right?
That's some of what their launchoff point into what they're
seeing.
For better or for worse, I.
There's a quote from the bookthat says, and I loved this, it
(32:11):
says, relatability wasn't asrevered as pure talent was the
condemning of commercializationof personality as an
intellectual failing, which ofcourse, I always think of that
in terms of when I'm firstrailing against the Kardashians
in the beginning.
And I was like, you know, I knowthat skims exists now.
Right?
I know that.
I know that.
The, the, they have a makeupline, but they wouldn't have had
(32:32):
that previously.
And you have to understand thatit came from
Jemimah Wei (32:35):
something else.
It's interesting because I dothink that in the very early
days, the people who firstrecognized that image, your
control over your own image is akind of currency, did have first
move advantage.
You know, they did understandthat it's not, the internet is
in a freewheeling place whereyou can be yourself Totally.
What goes on the internet, kindof on the internet.
(32:56):
It's like there are, you have tobe careful going in.
And I think for me, I, I grew upwithout very much media.
Like I didn't, I don't think Ihad a TV until like I was a
little older.
I basically just like read booksas a kid and never really had
like a movie or TV watchinghabit.
And so
Brett Benner (33:12):
is that what, is that because of your parents'
influence or is that justbecause of your own interest?
Jemimah Wei (33:15):
Uh, I kind of combination of both.
I think we just had no money,so.
Brett Benner (33:19):
Yeah.
Okay.
Jemimah Wei (33:20):
Like, you know, going to the movies was
expensive and, um.
It was just like what wasavailable to us.
Right.
So when I was growing up, I, Ithink we didn't have a tv'cause
I don't have a memory of a TVuntil I was, until my second
sister was born.
Then I remember Deb being a TVwhen she was a little older, but
growing up I just never watchedit.
And so I would just read booksthat, um, family, friends, like
(33:43):
passed down.
Mm-hmm.
That was very much just like theway I patched things together,
you know?
Uh, friends, you know, myparents' friends or like church
people, when their kids grew up,grew out their clothes, they
would pass it down to me.
And then when I grew out up,I'll pass it down to somebody
else.
Um, you know, like books, youknow, whatever people had grown
out of, they would just pass itdown.
I would just read whatever.
So I read a lot of reallyinappropriate stuff because they
(34:03):
didn't bet.
They just gave it, yeah,wholesale.
So I just read everything Icould get my hands on.
And so because of that, Ididn't, I actually didn't grow
up with like, the sense of whatthe media was in my head, like
media images.
And so I do feel like I have aslight.
I feel I've adapted to it, butI, I do have a slightly like,
uh, strange relationship withit.
I think there's a sense of likeotherness, I feel with this idea
(34:25):
of like, it, like you and themirror of yourself because I, I
do see it too.
I see now like a lot of peopleare like growing up in this
generation, are livingconstantly making micro
adjustments.
To their everyday behavior,almost subconsciously, because
growing up with social media,instead of having it come into
your life halfway through, it'salmost like having this mirror
(34:45):
installed in front of you at alltimes, and so you're not just.
Even if there's no audience,even if the audience is just
yourself, you are viewingyourself as you, as an audience
would.
And so you're constantly likeadjusting yourself or like
saying something and thenthinking, taking a about and
revising it and coming out witha smarter, sharper, wittier
version.
Almost like a constant rehearsalfor what it would be like to be
(35:06):
out in public.
And I think the real skill now,I mean, so maybe like 10 years
ago, the real school isrealizing that your control of
your image is a currency.
I think now what it is, isrealizing that that.
It's a compartmentalized andseparate version of your life,
and there is a private life thatyou must nurture and that you
must have that has to be justfor you.
Otherwise, very quickly, ouridentity or our sense of self
(35:28):
becomes dispersed because we aregiving parts of it to other
people all the time for theexternal feedback.
And I don't know if that'ssustainable.
Brett Benner (35:36):
No, and it's interesting because I've said
that the whole idea of celebrityhas changed so much because of
social media, because you know,when I grew up.
Celebrities were, and this is aconversation again I've had with
my daughter because if I saycelebrity to her, she will list
four, five different YouTubepersonalities that she is
obsessed with.
But I was explaining to herwhen, you know, when I was
(35:57):
young, a celebrity was MerylStreep.
It was Tom Cruise, it was the,the movie stars, the people you
went into a dark theater and sawthey were the people you watched
on tv.
But.
I think social media has done iskind of pulled a lot of those
walls down and made so manypeople accessible in our own
minds to think like, well, Icould possibly speaking for
(36:19):
myself now, I could possiblydate Pedro Pascal, but it's.
Suddenly and, and, and, but it'sremoved.
So many of those barriers thatwhat we used to think of as
celebrities and who we used tothink of as quote unquote movie
stars, they aren't anymore.
So again, it speaks to whatyou're saying about finding this
way to separate a public with aprivate thing and.
(36:42):
Movie stars in particular, orcelebrities, they were very
private.
You didn't know anything abouttheir personal lives unless a PR
person was putting a statementout or something about their
marriage or their divorce orsomething to that effect, but
you didn't know the day to day.
Well, now they're coming out ofa Costco.
And their sweatpants lookinglike hell about to, you know,
load in their toilet paper.
(37:03):
We're, we're getting access topeople in unprecedented ways we
never have before.
And it's, it's breaking it alldown.
And at the same time, takingpeople who have learned how to,
like you said, understand theircurrency but might not
necessarily have a skill to backit up, but have something that
is appealing to people andpeople want to watch and brands.
(37:27):
Understand immediately, well,let's use this person to
capitalize.
Jemimah Wei (37:31):
Mm-hmm.
I think it's like very widelypared, but social media does
breed a lot of resentmentbecause it brings, yeah.
Competitiveness and comparisoninto your pocket.
And I do think the whole likeidea of relatability is a double
H sword.
Right?
You are so relatable.
That's why people love you.
On the flip side of that, you'reso relatable.
People are like, well, we arethe same.
(37:53):
So why you and not me?
And I think that's something oneof the girls like really has to
balance like that navigationwith public, like public
sentiment and how to dancearound that.
Because then it also becomes athing where there's, you know,
there are certain things she canno longer say in wider circles,
but that character is veryprivate to begin with.
(38:14):
She really only like confides inlike two or three people like
her family, um, and does notlike form strong relationships
outside of that.
That's like a sense of ness thatI, that I find common, you know,
for people in the industry.
Brett Benner (38:26):
I'm wondering if you found, when you were writing
this, and I know that, you know,people always wanna find
parallels between, you know,fiction and fact.
Jemimah Wei (38:35):
Mm-hmm.
Brett Benner (38:35):
Um, but as I went through the book, I couldn't
help but wonder sometimes ifGenevieve and Aaron were this
merging of parts of you.
This combination.
I kept thinking.
Are these parts of Jemima thatare coming together anyway?
Jemimah Wei (38:54):
Well, which question, which answer would
entice, would abide the votemore?
We just go that answer.
Brett Benner (39:01):
That is spoken like a, like a true social media
influencer.
Jemimah Wei (39:07):
Well, okay, so more seriously.
Right.
I do think that for artists,your work grows out of your
sensibility.
And so it would be disingenuousto be like, well, I wrote this
book about like, uh, a dolphingrowing up off the coast of
America and that's nothing to dowith my entire life.
You know?
So even that, even that would.
A sensibility that is born ofthe artist's vision.
(39:30):
Sure.
And so I do think thateverything in this book and
everything I've ever writtenright, that's boom.
From that same sensibility thatI have like worked very hard to,
you know, like nourish and grow.
And so yeah, I guess, I guessmaybe like yes and no, that
would be.
It would be a too, it would betoo boring if the character's
(39:53):
kind of like totally correlatedwith my own experiences because
I had like a really, you know,my life is like.
Objectively not thatinteresting.
And so I had to like reallynavigate a lot of things in the
story to like really make itmore exciting, like story-wise.
And I think that's one of theprivileges of art, right?
You are able to filter like aperspective or a sensibility
(40:17):
through the lens of thesecharacters or these stories that
you can then kind of like.
Dilute or intensify in order tobring a point across or to bring
a story across.
And that, I guess, is what I wastrying to do through the,
through the book.
But I think to your question oflike readers trying to find
correlational points, Idefinitely get that and I
understand why there's thatsense.
(40:37):
I have that sense too when Iread other people's work or I
watch like films and I justthink to myself, you know, there
is a, a lot of debut writershave this fear that you write a
book and people are gonna belike, they're gonna think it's
me.
So.
That is like a very valid fear,I think.
But my question then is, is thatfear?
I mean, people are always gonnafeel that way.
So is that fear large enough tothen override?
(40:59):
The other thing, the other fearthat I have, and the other fear
that I have, is that there arenot that many Singaporean
writers.
There are, there's a growingnumber, but I can still count
them on like one hand or liketwo hands.
And so.
If I don't write an ultra localstory with very specific things
about the thing about it, I knowand I love, and that I process
like through a specific lens anda contemporary period in our
history, people, it's not gonnamake it into literary canon.
(41:23):
It's not gonna make it intosomething that I can hold and
that, um, I can hold as anobjective.
Like, like, like manifestedreality, like a physical object
when the country and the worldchanges so fast and then we are
just gonna be left with thememories of.
You know, like our memory'sunreliable.
We are subject to nostalgia, tosentimentality, and it's not
(41:44):
that books are not that thing,but you know, I work the hardest
that I can to make this like.
Really as true as possible tothe lives of these characters
that I've created.
And I've put in stuff that'svery specific to things that I
love.
Like I put my friend's,parents', businesses, names in
there.
I named the junior college aftermy husband.
(42:05):
I was like, this is not a realschool.
I just named it after him.
I was like, I want, I want thisto go down in history.
I put in like.
You know, just like littleEaster eggs for my friends and
my family in there that theywould read and be like, oh,
that's my, that's myneighborhood aunt.
That's my mom's like noodleshop.
You know?
And that was important to mebecause I don't think there's
like an intellectual purity tobeing like, I invented
everything.
(42:25):
There is like no correlation inreality.
And I think that is kind of likesometimes a defensive fear
against people then accusing youof having no imagination, which
to me is a moot, it's a mootpoint.
Like I don't, that's not a realargument.
And so.
That fear of like having peoplethink, oh, is this your life?
It's not great enough toovercome the fear that we would
(42:46):
then have these stories lost tohistory.
And when you're from a smallcountry, when you are so far
from being part of the globalmajority and publishing, you
think to yourself, if you don'twrite these stories, the stories
of your country and of yourhistory are gonna be the stories
other people tell of you.
And I don't want that.
That's a worst fear that peoplethinking this might be about her
life.
I mean, people can have whateveropinions they want.
(43:07):
I don't mind.
They just have to buy the book,which then entitle them to have
any opinion they want.
They don't have to tell me thoseopinions.
They can just have them as longas they buy the beautiful hot
cover that has just come in.
So
Brett Benner (43:18):
what did, what did somebody say?
I think it was, um, uh, to Lulabanked once said, well, I don't
care what they're saying aboutme, as long as they're saying it
about me.
And, um, and it's a little bitof that.
I said earlier at the very startof this, and it's kind of a
great way to bookend because itsurprised me in so many ways.
I don't know what I wasoriginally thinking.
Well, I will say this.
(43:40):
I was originally thinking, andplease, I hope you can hear this
without, I don't mean anything,but when I first saw it, I was
like, mm-hmm.
Will this be the chit?
That's what I thought, and I gotinto it and it couldn't have
been further from that.
And I found myself reading thisso slowly because I didn't want
(44:00):
it to end.
And I don't always find that,and especially when I'm reading
for, say even for the podcastand I'm just trying to get
through a lot of stuff I.
But I put myself against somekind of weird deadline.
'cause I was like, I know I hadto finish the book before I sat
down with you, and yet I didn'twant to go through this quickly
because A, the writing was sobeautiful, like as evidenced by
(44:23):
my tabs.
I just was marking so much.
But also I was so drawn to thesetwo women and this story that I
really didn't want it to findout what was going to be.
Stop, so,
Jemimah Wei (44:38):
oh,
Brett Benner (44:39):
anyway.
Jemimah Wei (44:39):
Thank you.
I mean, so firstly, I wouldnever take offense to people
thinking it's.
Chick lit or whatever of thatgenre means because I grew up
reading a lot of chick lit, youknow, I feel like, and I read
some of
Brett Benner (44:50):
it too.
Yeah.
I mean,
Jemimah Wei (44:52):
shopaholic series, anybody.
So like any entry into readingto me is a good entry.
You know, I don't care howpeople get into reading as long
as they do.
And so, you know, love it.
Would never feel any type of wayabout it.
Um, but number two, like, youknow, I just, that that response
means so much to me.
I feel like it was Jess Walterwho in his essay in the time of
Galley slaves, talks about this,where the writer's greatest
(45:15):
material.
On and off the page is time andwhen people, I.
Describe how a book affects'emor like your work affects'em.
It is also a way of likecontrolling time because they
either like go, oh, I read it soquickly I couldn't get out of
it.
Like, you know, I couldn't putit down, which is a kind of
controlling reader's time, or Ididn't want it to end, which is
a way of wanting to live intime.
(45:36):
And so that relationship withtime is something that I am
super like conscious of, youknow, as a writer because,
because I, I will likeprogresses and renovate so fast.
That we, we live in a time ofgreat velocity.
I think.
I think there is like a realwhiplash to, to, to, to being in
the world, which I don't thinkwe are humanly equipped to live.
(45:58):
Like, you know, I just don'tthink that ourselves are
equipped to live at this pace.
And so a lot of that like kindof informed the way I framed
and, um, work through the book.
But now like, you know, hearingthe way readers respond to it
with their own like relationshiptwo time, it, it just like, it
means so much to me.
I.
Brett Benner (46:18):
So what's next?
Do you know?
And if you don't wanna talkabout it, maybe you can't or
don't know yet, that's fine.
But I'm so curious.
I saw somewhere I thought whereyou were working on some short
stories.
Jemimah Wei (46:28):
Yeah, I mean, my answer changes every day
depending on when you've caughtme.
Like if you caught me just wokeup from a nap, I'm in a really
good mood.
I'm like, do, I'm working onfive things.
Uh, and if you catch you on abed riding day, like I'm working
on nothing.
But so I am, I do know what thenext few books are gonna look
like.
I have known, I think for awhile, and it's just about which
(46:48):
one is catching.
So I'm working on severalprojects and I think part of
like writing, sort of seeing howfar you go with each one before
they start to feel like take ontheir own shape and do their own
thing Interesting.
And gain their own likeacceleration.
But yeah, there's like somethings I'm working on and.
Like mainly I think I'm justsaturated in a sense of like
relief because when you work onthe debut for so long, like, so
this book, you know, I startedwriting in 2014 when it comes
(47:11):
out this year is 2025.
It would've been 11 years sinceI wrote the first word, which is
nuts.
And if the next one takes 11years, I'm just gonna fall down
and perish.
But you know, like I do feellike, I do feel like you as an
artist.
Prior to releasing your firstpiece of work, your artistic
identity can feel so codependentwith this one debut, right?
(47:33):
It can feel like if it doesn't,if you don't finish the book, if
this book isn't everything thatyou tried to do with it
ambitiously, like artistically,you, you, you would've failed as
an artist or you would not bethe artist you think you are.
And I feel like finishing thebook and having it leave my
hands and go into thepublisher's hands, the copy
editor, the cover designer,readers, sales reps, everything,
you know, bookstore.
That has been really amazing forme because it just feels.
(47:56):
I, I have this new freedom to goin whatever direction I want to
for my art.
I, I would never have to belike, am I a writer?
Because, you know, like comingto your, I mean, we're book
ending this, right?
Coming to your first everquestion.
Yeah.
I'm a writer.
I, you know, the evidence.
It's out there.
So yeah.
You know, um, there, there,there is like, I, I don't have
that sense anymore of, you know,am I a writer?
(48:18):
Maybe my new sense, my newquestion is, what kind of writer
do I wanna be moving forward?
What kind of art do I wannamake?
What kind of questions do Iwanna interrogate?
And I do know what my concernsare broadly, and I think it's
about finding the perfect shapefor them.
And so I've made these planswith this book, I've started
writing different projects and Ithink it's, and I think one
great thing I've learned about,I.
(48:39):
Writing this book is that bookstake a really long time, so I'm
trying to teach myself to bepatient and not be like, well,
we have to have a draft withinthe year, which is not the kind
of like writer I think I amanyway.
I don't think I can produce likeone book a year, and so I'm
just, you know, trying to takeit easy and trying to show up
for the book where I can,because I feel very much like a,
like a vaguely affectionate.
(49:01):
Mom where I've like made thisfirst born daughter and she's
now like going off into theworld and doing her thing and I
feel like, great, good job.
It's like that meme of that AmyPolar, I think with the video
camera thing you're doingamazing, sweetie.
Keep it up.
I feel like that's me.
I'm like, you are amazing.
You know, you, you are a realbook.
You are a real girl out in theworld.
(49:22):
I'm so happy for you andwhatever I can control.
Like, you know, if they're like.
Come and do this event or comeand like talk to this book club.
I would totally do it'cause Iwanna show up for my first born,
but I don't think that I cancontrol anything else about
that.
You know how readers take it.
Who the who, you know, herreaders are who she finally
resonates with.
All of that is outta my controland does not objectively change
(49:43):
anything in the book.
The book that I've written isalways gonna be the book.
The words are always gonna bethe same words.
And so the reception is like adifferent part of the book's
life.
That is not really my.
Kind of my business I think.
Brett Benner (49:57):
Interesting.
Yeah.
Jemimah Wei (49:58):
And so, yeah, that like has been really wonderful
because then I can, I feel likeI can like feel very
affectionate to this book goingout and then work on the next
one, turn my attention to mychildren who need more
attention.
'cause they're information.
Brett Benner (50:14):
Exactly.
I Exactly.
I love, I love that.
And, and, and find out which oneof your children is the most
ambitious towards their.
Creator.
Jemimah Wei (50:25):
Mm-hmm.
And
Brett Benner (50:26):
needs.
And needs it first.
Well, I think she's justbeautiful and I'm so excited to
see what happens with both herand you.
I mean, again, I.
I feel so lucky and privilegedto be sitting with you today.
'cause this is really, it'sreally beyond a spectacular
debut.
It's just a spectacular book tome.
(50:46):
So congratulations on all of it.
I'm, I'm, uh, thrilled for you.
Jemimah Wei (50:51):
Oh, thank you so, so, so much.
Like, this is so lovely andhearing you talk about the book,
really, it's just, I, I, it'shard for me to put into words,
which is ironic, but I just dofeel like the feeling's too big
for me because I get it.
Yeah.
It's um.
For the longest time, justfinishing the book was the
dream.
So everything beyond that, it'sbeyond my wildest dreams
(51:12):
already.
Um, it's, it's hard to step intothat feeling.
I think
Brett Benner (51:17):
I'm, I'm so happy this book is out there.
I'm so happy for people toexperience you, I should say,
and your work, and I just thinkit's great.
So.
Congratulations.
Jemimah Wei (51:27):
Thank you.
Thank you, thank you, thank you,thank you.
Brett Benner (51:31):
Thank you again, Jemima.
And if you like theseconversations and like what
you're hearing, please considerliking and subscribing to the
podcast.
And another thing that would beincredibly helpful, if you have
the time, if you could leave areview on one of your podcast
platforms of choice, that inparticular is really, really
helpful and I would really,really appreciate it.
(51:52):
Have a good week everyone, and Iwill.
See you next week.
Hey everybody, it's Brett Benner and welcome or
(00:01):
welcome back to another episodeof Behind the Stack.
Wow.
This is a massive release dayfor books, so I just wanted to
dive right in'cause I just can'teven believe how many good ones
there are.
The first, the Emperor ofGladness by Ocean Ong.
Ocean Vong returned to the bighearted novel about chosen
family, unexpected friendship,and the stories we tell
(00:23):
ourselves in order to survive.
I think this book is everywhere.
It's gonna be everywhere.
I am looking at a copy of itnow, which I wanted so badly to
have already read.
But anyway, I, I can't wait forthis one.
Also out today is The Devil's byJoe Abercrombie.
This I am reading right now.
I'm three quarters of the waythrough it, doing this on audio.
(00:43):
For those of you who like afantasy book, it is so fantastic
and it is completely ticklingthat part of my psyche that
loves a good fantasy with a bigdollop of humor.
This is about a group of.
(01:05):
This is about a group ofessentially monsters who have
been hired by a very young popeto place a rightful princess on
the throne and the journey ofgetting there.
But when I say monsters, it's avampire, it's a werewolf, it's
an elf, and they're all soincredibly well drawn.
It feels a little reminiscent tome of the show.
The boys on Amazon.
(01:27):
But it is so, so, so great, andapparently it's the first in a
series, so I, I've never read aJoe Abercrombie book before, but
it's truly a delight.
So that's out today.
Then for my Thriller fans, AlexNorth's new book, the Man Made
of Smoke.
I loved the Whisper Man, butweirdly haven't read anything
else by Alex North.
(01:48):
So really excited for this one.
Then for all the nonfiction fansout there, Ron Chernow's, mark
Twain is finally out a.
Massive tome where biographerRon Chernow illuminates the full
fascinating and complex life ofthe writer along celebrated as
the Father of Americanliterature.
(02:09):
So those are just some of thebooks out today that are
interesting to me.
Obviously there are plenty more,but check those ones out.
Okay, so now onto today'sauthor.
I had such a wonderfulconversation with Jemima Way for
her new book, the OriginalDaughter She Is.
Just so charming, smart, andcompelling.
(02:31):
Let me tell you a little bitabout her and the book.
It is a Good Morning AmericaBook Club.
Pick a New York Times editor'spick an Indie next pick.
It debuted at number one on theStraits Time bestseller list and
has been named a best book ofSpring 2025 by Harper's Bazaar l
Vogue Time Apple Books.
And more.
(02:51):
She is a 2025 National BookFoundation 535 Honoree, a 2022
for Stegner Fellow at StanfordUniversity, a 2020 Philippe p
Alba Fellow at ColumbiaUniversity, and a Francine
Ringle Award for new writershonoree.
Her fiction has won the WilliamVan Dyke short Story Prize and
has been published in narrativeGuernica.
(03:14):
Joy Land among others.
She's been nominated for thePushkar Prize, recognized by the
best of the net anthologies, andreceive and received
scholarships from Singapore'sNational Arts Council, Breadloaf
Writers Conference, SuwaneeWriters Conference, and Columbia
University where she earned herMFA.
She's currently a senior proseeditor at the Massachusetts
(03:37):
Review and divides her timebetween Singapore and New York
City.
So please enjoy this episode of.
Behind the stack.
I am so thrilled to be sittingdown with Jemima Way today,
whose brand new book.
It surprised me in so many waysand I had no idea what I was
(04:00):
getting into, socongratulations.
It's just absolutely stunning.
Jemimah Wei (04:04):
Thank you.
Thank you so much for having meon the show, Brad.
And also I love seeing all thepost-its flagging out of your
book and.
It was, it's very meaningful tome to hear readers, you know,
hear that the book resonateswith readers because I've been
alone with this book for so longthat.
Doing her own thing in the worldand meeting readers on their own
terms is really incredible tome.
(04:25):
So thank you so much for yourkind words.
Brett Benner (04:27):
No, it's, it's such a cool thing because I have
this conversation with writers alot because you have, you've
spent so much time, it's likewith your baby, right?
And suddenly to put it out inthe world, like you said,
meeting readers on their ownterms, but it becomes a life of
its own and it's such adifferent experience.
And so I can't help but thinkit's.
It's, it's exciting, but it'salso a little scary just to
(04:48):
watch it launch off.
So usually I have to tell you,when I start my episodes, I
always give a bio and talk aboutthe author.
But some of it I thought today Ihad to do it in front of you
because I was so blown away.
And like I said, before westarted recording, I really went
down this Jemima wormhole, whichwas really fun.
(05:09):
And I was watching interviewsand I was watching some of your
acting.
And, uh.
As well as just reading a lot ofyour stuff.
First of all, I have to tell youthat Dan Michel Norris was on a
few weeks ago and I reached outto her this week and I said, Jem
is coming on this week.
And she was like, I'm soobsessed with her.
I'm so obsessed with her.
And now I really wish,'cause I'min LA, that I would've really
(05:30):
wish I would've seen the panelwith the both of you.
Jemimah Wei (05:33):
Oh, I love that, Michelle.
Yeah.
Brett Benner (05:35):
Yeah.
So if your ears were burning,should be speaking very highly
of you, but you were the firstSingaporean to be awarded the
Stegner Fellowship.
And for anyone who doesn't know,the Stegner Fellowship is
awarded annually to five poetsand five fiction writers, and
the fellowships include astipend and working with artists
who meet weekly for workshopswith the faculty of Stanford's
writing program.
(05:55):
And I'd love this quote fromthem and, and again, just.
Speak so highly to you and yourwork.
In awarding fellowships, weconsider the quality of the
candidate's creative workpotential for growth and ability
to contribute to and profit fromour writing workshops.
So.
Congratulations on that, whichI'm sure thank you was just an
(06:15):
incredible experience.
Jemimah Wei (06:17):
Yeah.
Brett Benner (06:17):
You were also recently named by the National
Book Foundation, one of theirfive under 35 for this book and
for the National BookFoundation.
It says they, they award this toa, a works of fiction that
promises to leave a lastingimpression on the literary
landscape.
So amazing.
It's also been chosen as a MayIndie next title, so
(06:41):
congratulations on that as well.
I want to go back before we getinto the book and ask you, did
you always know you wanted to bea writer?
I.
Jemimah Wei (06:48):
Yeah, but my definition of that was a little
different, I think from most,um, people I've spoken to
because it's not that I don'thave imposter syndrome, I do
have that, but growing up inSingapore, just like the idea of
being an author was so far awaythat it just didn't seem within
the realm of possibility.
So I, I was never plagued bythe, oh, can I write?
Because to me, writing is anaction word.
(07:09):
You're a writer because you'reright.
It's just like, it's my sitdown.
It doesn't, it doesn't, itdoesn't feel like married to the
reality of publishing for me.
Only after I, you know, had beenwriting for a long time by
myself in Singapore and thentook the jump, I think to come
to the US did I start thinkingabout, can I be a published
author?
So those are two differentthings, but since I was young, I
(07:31):
just have always rememberedmaking things up, like, and
writing them down and kind oflying awake at night inventing
what I'm gonna, what's.
Story, I'm gonna act out thenext day.
And then harassing my poorparents because I would then
wake up and I'm like, I'm thischaracter now.
And they're like, oh, here we goagain.
Brett Benner (07:47):
You said that when you found out about the
fellowship, that it was justsuch an affirmation for you as
a, as a Singaporean girl whogrew up being told that writing
is an impractical child's dream.
Jemimah Wei (07:56):
Yeah.
Um.
Brett Benner (07:58):
I love that.
I, I love the universality ofthat because I feel like any
kind of artist, any kind ofperson who, whether it's writing
or acting or music, there isthat kind of, um, thing that
you're met with of, of, wellthat's fine, but what are you
gonna do to make money?
And, you know, what are yougoing to do to support yourself?
So I know that you went toColumbia for your MFA, but, but
(08:21):
bridge the gap for me.
Jemimah Wei (08:22):
Mm-hmm.
Brett Benner (08:23):
Like, how did you get up to there?
And I also have to ask, are youan only child?
Jemimah Wei (08:27):
No, I have two younger sisters.
Brett Benner (08:30):
Oh, wow.
Are you guys close?
Jemimah Wei (08:32):
Very close.
That's so, which fun.
It's so fun because everybodykeeps asking me, they're like,
oh, what's like, you know,because this, it's a book about
the Yeah, exactly.
Everyone's like, what's the tea?
And it's really hilarious to mebecause I wasn't thinking as
much about sisters as much as Iwas about, I mean, I was
thinking about sisters, but alsoabout the idea of a child that's
given away and who enters afamily kind of not from birth,
(08:54):
but down the road relationshipis not quite the same as.
My relationship with my sistersand whenever people are asking
me about, oh, you know, like,um, it's a corelation.
I always joke that because Ihave two younger sisters and in
the book it's just two sisters.
I'm like, I'm gonna lock my twosisters in room and let, let'em
(09:14):
duke it out by the title of og.
Brett Benner (09:21):
What is the spread like age spread?
Jemimah Wei (09:24):
Oh, um, my.
My, the next sister is threeyears younger than me, and my
baby is seven years younger thanme.
Wow.
Yeah.
We're, we're close.
We grew up together and youknow, we, we were like living
together very tightly, right uptill I moved to the States.
So up till adulthood and even upto now, you know, we are like
(09:44):
always chatting.
We do kind of like arrange our,now we're in different places,
but we do try and arrange ouryears and our time around, like
trying to be there for eachother's big moments because it's
difficult.
'cause now I'm in the states.
One of my sisters was inAustralia for a long time.
The other one works a job thatmakes her travel a lot.
And so we do have to like bemore intentional about trying to
(10:06):
spend that time together.
But you know, I'm reallygrateful to technology because
we can, we're always yapping onlike Telegram.
Um, and this is something I feelstrongly as an international
writer, right?
Because no matter where I am inthe moment, I'm saying bye to
somebody.
I have great, great friends inNew York.
I have a very strong communityin Singapore and I love a lot of
(10:26):
my friends in the Bay Area.
So every time I move, I feellike I am.
Putting roots and then sayinggoodbye, putting down roots and
saying goodbye.
And so my relationship totechnology, I think in terms of
how grateful you for the abilityto communicate and stay in
people's lives.
Um.
Deep, deep, you know, I feel, Ifeel very, very, very, um,
thankful for technology.
Brett Benner (10:47):
Yeah.
It, I feel like it's one of thegifts of, of modern life, right?
Mm-hmm.
I mean, there's, uh, because Ialways feel like, you know,
social media to me is its ownthing, and I want to talk a
little bit about that a littlelater mm-hmm.
In regards to the book as well.
But, but I do feel like.
Exactly like you said, thisability to be able to reach out
and connect with, with thepeople that we love and care
about in ways that previouslyyou never would've done, you
(11:08):
would've been, you know, writingletters and waiting weeks
Exactly.
To get it or, or like having abad phone connection or any of
these things.
I.
Jemimah Wei (11:16):
Exactly.
And I do feel like people arealways asking me for this like
black or white answer when theysay, what do you think about
technology?
And I'm like, what?
What is that?
To think about it, it's here.
It's in our lives.
Brett Benner (11:25):
Yes.
Jemimah Wei (11:25):
Or people would be like, what do you feel about
social media?
And is it good for us?
And I'm like, well, you know,there it's not a yes or no
answer.
Right.
Brett Benner (11:34):
Sure.
'cause I know we're starting todip in.
Do you have like an elevatorpitch for the book?
Mm-hmm.
Jemimah Wei (11:38):
Yeah, I can.
I can do it.
Okay, let's go.
The original daughter followstwo sisters.
One adopted growing up rapidly,modernizing super stressful and
ultra competitive.
Singapore navigating theirrelationship to, you know,
independence and intimacy ontheir journey to fame fortune.
What happens then is, you know.
Where I come from, being reallyclose to somebody means that
(12:00):
you're all up in their business,even if it makes you wanna die.
And so these sisters and thosefamily have to navigate their
relationship to love andboundaries, even when society
and everything in the worldseems to be designed to push
them into a more individualisticpath.
And so I guess you just have toread the books to find out how
(12:21):
that plays out.
Brett Benner (12:23):
Yes you do.
Yes you do.
Okay.
Now I, you know, you had an MFAin Columbia, but I was like
talking about bridging the gapbetween what happened before
that, like in terms of schoolingand what happened to get you
there.
Um, what was that about?
And I have, but I have somethingI wanna ask you first.
Start to interject that.
How often do you go back toSingapore?
Jemimah Wei (12:44):
Oh, super often.
Brett Benner (12:46):
All the time.
Jemimah Wei (12:47):
Well, I, I try to as much as possible, because
like I said earlier, you know,I, my relationships are very
important to me and I, I feellike I have developed this great
ambition for love in the lastcouple decades, and what it
means to me is trying to bethere for like my friends and
family in person whenever I can.
And that sometimes seems alittle counterintuitive to the
(13:09):
writer's life because so much ofwriting is solitary.
Mm-hmm.
But, and, and then alsoSingapore and New York are
famously, is famously like thelongest line in the world,
right?
So I'm perpetually jet likethat.
I'm always tired because it'salways, it's always like 2:00 AM
somewhere, but it is, I thinkthe tax I am willing to pay on
being like having those likerich and strong relationships.
(13:30):
And being able to do that for aslong as I can.
Obviously, like practicalconsiderations, like financial
considerations and timeconsiderations, and so how long
I'll sustain this.
Be able to be quite invested inboth my life in the States and
in Singapore.
In fact, I was talking'cause itis something that's been
troubling me for a long time.
(13:51):
Like, you know, where do I setdown roots and like make a home.
I don't really have a place I'mbase because as a writer you go
wherever.
The writing calls you like, and,and that's realistic, right?
I would've never thought I wouldmove to the Bay Area, but the
GNA was like, we will have youcome.
And I was like, I will come.
So, you know, if anyonelistening to this podcast, you
know, like wants to host awriteup or fellowship on your
YouTube, please ping me.
(14:12):
I am open.
Right.
And make it
Brett Benner (14:14):
an incredible location, by the way.
Jemimah Wei (14:16):
Oh yeah.
I mean, totally.
So.
I think that really openedthings up for me because I was
like, it is true.
Why am I thinking already?
When you choose to be a writer,you are divorcing yourself from
a, a kind of standardized path,right?
You're divorcing yourself fromany kind of traditional markers
of success or timeline oranything like that.
I.
So then why keep to thosetraditional markets in every
(14:37):
other part of your life, likeyou have already chosen a path
that's slightly different.
And so Chang Ray's conversationto me really made me think,
okay, maybe I don't have to belike saying yes to one means
saying no to another.
Maybe I can try to be there forboth parts of my life for as
long as I can.
And so that's what I'm trying todo for now.
Yeah.
I.
Brett Benner (14:57):
This time.
Now I'm gonna sound like, likeparental, and I don't mean it to
come off that way, but I'm likeyou are.
You are young enough to be ableto do this right now too.
Jemimah Wei (15:04):
Yes.
Brett Benner (15:04):
And I find that sometimes with age becomes
longing for something different.
And you might find, listen, thisis, I feel like this is the
launch off, right?
Mm-hmm.
This is the moment when yourrocket is taking off in such an
incredible way and.
The journey of where it's gonnatake you, who knows?
But I do find a lot of times aspeople begin to age, there
becomes this longing for whatwas familiar and what was known,
(15:27):
and some way, sometimes to goback to what we knew or a
representation of what we knew,if that makes sense.
Jemimah Wei (15:34):
I do expect that that will happen in the years
moving forward.
But I think something that I'vereally tried to hold onto
throughout this entire processof launching a book is I don't
wanna wake up one day, maybe 10years down the road and be like,
those were the good days.
I want to be like, this is thegood day.
I wanna recognize what I havewhen I have it.
And as you said, I'm young, likefamously under 35, and so I can
(15:56):
do this now.
You know, I can, my body cantake it.
It's just.
I am like, you know, it istiring and I don't have that
many commitments where I am, youknow, like tight.
I don't have kids, I don't have,you know, so because of that, I
do feel like for as long as Ican keep it going, I would like
the privilege of being there formy communities on both sides.
(16:16):
And I think also, you know, ifyou, if you zoom out a little
bit, I, I do think to myselfgrowing up.
What examples did I have?
Not that many.
And so it's not just my friendsand family.
I feel very invested in goingback and being there for the,
the burgeoning artists communityin Singapore, the writers,
emerging writers, like I'm amentor with the Singapore Book
Council.
I try to do master classes andas many things as I can every
(16:37):
time I'm back in Singaporebecause.
There is a huge growing artistcommunity there of writers.
Fiction writers in a way that'svery exciting to me.
And I think that it can be verydifficult for somebody from like
an international writer tounderstand what publishing looks
like or understand what it lookslike to launch a book or what it
looks like to build an artistcareer in a sustainable way.
And so I do feel invested inthat.
(16:59):
I don't wanna just be like,okay, this is like just my life
and I'm leaving.
So I think that's part of why Ido feel quite drawn to going
back often.
Brett Benner (17:09):
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, I get it.
And kudos to you and like Isaid, you
Jemimah Wei (17:13):
are
Brett Benner (17:13):
young and you have it, so, so, so do it.
Um, so much of the book isreally, it's about ambition.
Jemimah Wei (17:22):
Mm-hmm.
Brett Benner (17:22):
For both these sisters, Genevieve Yang, and,
and now do you pronounce itAaron or Aaron or how do you
pronounce her name?
Jemimah Wei (17:30):
Oh, I pronounce it Aaron.
Brett Benner (17:31):
Aaron, a RIN.
Mm-hmm.
For our listeners and viewers,but ambition in very different
ways.
Right.
And Jen's, I, I would love totalk about this because I'm
personally unfamiliar with it,but there's this whole, the
academic ambition, right.
And this is the whole culturallylike Singapore.
Can you talk a little bit about,because I'm sure you went
through this mm-hmm.
(17:51):
Yourself, just what that waslike mm-hmm.
And what it was like for her.
And she's incredibly driven to.
To be the best.
Jemimah Wei (18:00):
Yeah.
So that links a little bit toearlier when you asked me to
fill in the gaps, which I keepforgetting to do'cause I keep
getting distracted.
That's okay.
We kept
Brett Benner (18:06):
getting distracted.
Sorry.
That's my fault.
Jemimah Wei (18:08):
No, it's also my fault.
I'm a yapper.
Um, I understand.
But yeah, so you know, I grew upin the Singaporean education
system as it are my characters.
It's extremely stressful becausethere is this idea that we are a
really small country, right?
And you have to be extremelyexcellent in order to survive on
the global stage, which I thinkis something that.
You know, has proven itself to acertain extent, like over the
(18:32):
last couple decades with thedifferent crisis.
Like Singapore's narrative hasalways been, you have to be
extremely excellent in order tosurvive because we have nothing
else going for us.
We're small, we have no naturalresources.
You know, all we have is oursmarts and our r and d and our
ability to like be really goodat navigating international
waters.
And so you grew up with that,you know, like messaging all the
(18:54):
time.
And when you're growing up inSingapore, there are very few
ways where you think toyourself, I can jump.
Jump a class or like escape mycircumstances.
And one of that is this idea oflike a meritocratic academic
society where if you doextremely well, maybe you could
get like a scholarship to couldelevate you that could then
there are like very specificpaths that you could really
(19:14):
track back.
And it's very common for youngpeople to be like, all right,
these are my dreams, goals,these are the way I'm gonna get
it.
These are the scholarships andprograms I wanna get into, and
therefore I'm gonna likeoptimize every single part of my
life.
So that I become the ultimatecandidate for this.
And so it's very common to go toschool, go to like different
kinds of tuition or enrichmentclasses, develop all kinds of
very specific hobbies that couldthen get you into a school a
(19:37):
different way.
So in with, instead of trueresults, you could get into
dragon boating or like singingor like band, you know, by being
like the best.
Everything that you can be.
So the correlation to mypersonal life is I'm a bit of a
nerd.
Like I've always left school.
I don't have that.
I don't have that.
Like, oh, I don't wanna go toschool.
I was like, oh wow.
Look at how fun this is.
Every day.
I gotta go hang out my friendsand learn new things.
(19:58):
So no problem there, you know,nobody had to force me to go to
school, but.
It was really stressful and forme, I was really big on the idea
of a backup plan, so I wasterrified that I wouldn't do
well in school because we aregraded on a bell curve, which is
something I talk very brieflyabout in the book, which means
your grades are not an objectivegrade, they're relative grade.
(20:19):
So you get an A, if you are atop like 10%, that's not a
number grade.
So I could get 99 upon hundredand still not get an A because
you know, like everybody elsegot.
A hundred to 100.
So that means that you areconstantly in competition and it
is, I think, very at theforefront of a lot of students'
minds.
And so for me, I just developedlike extremely niche hobbies.
(20:40):
Like I was a soprano growing upand I got into my junior college
through singing.
I was straight up like Iauditioned outside of like my
grades.
And so I was a direct schooladmission student, so that if I
didn't do well enough to pure,uh, o level results, I could get
into my voice.
And that is what I did.
I.
(21:00):
People do that through all kindsof ways.
And uh, for me, choosing choirwas like the obvious choice
because you don't need to buy aninstrument.
It's very cost efficient.
You just need your voice.
You have to like sing in acorner and train that all day
long.
So you have all this kind oflike training, um, and I.
The, the like golden standard isfrom that generation.
You know, my Singapore's a veryyoung country.
(21:20):
We are turning 60 years here, soit's like three generations of
people and the previousgenerations with this
generation.
Everybody says the same thing.
Get yourself to university.
'cause once you get there, onceyou have a college degree, you
can get a job.
Because that was true of ageneration ago.
It's not true anymore.
Now everybody has a collegedegree and it's so hard to get a
job.
The comp, the job market's socompetitive, but growing up you
(21:42):
didn't think that, you justthought to yourself it would be
worse without a degree.
So everybody's like bustingtheir ass to get to college and
people have mental breakdowns.
It's crazy.
Like I know so many people whojust did not survive the
academic system, who.
Either had like mentalbreakdowns or like, you know,
just like clips outta the systemor, or, or worse.
And, and so to me that wasalways something that I, I don't
(22:04):
think you could write a bookabout growing up in Singapore
without touching on theeducational system then.
I mean, that would just bemagical realism because they're
not like, what isn't stressed,you know, that's.
Oh yeah.
(22:24):
So I was like, you know, thishas to make it in.
And it turned out to be veryrich material for me.
But I think that sense of movingout of an institutionalized
system is very, you know,unmooring and very destabilizing
for a lot of people who aregrown in this system.
'cause you grow with thistrellis, right, of like grades
and like rubrics and metrics,and then you exit into the real
(22:47):
world and you're like, the realworld doesn't give a shit.
Like, all right, you got like.
A for like math, uh, good.
Or you, so can you quote this ornot?
And so a lot of people thenbecome very disillusioned and
kind of lost and thenexistentially lost and
depressed.
And then the bills don't stopcoming.
'cause once you're an adult, allthe bills kick in.
And then so sure you are like,okay, now I need to find a job.
Immediately.
(23:07):
I need to make decisions thatare not really driven by the
kind of life I wanna lead, butdriven by extremely pragmatic
decisions because we are, uh,also like a very community
based.
Society, you know, we, it'squite common to live at home
until you get married.
It's not like in America wherepeople tend to move outta 18 for
college.
And I think that's because we'rea small country.
(23:28):
Like there's no real need tomove anywhere.
Like you can get everywhere fromone end of the country to the
other, but like maximum 45minutes by car.
So where you gonna go?
You know, like rent is expensivesince someone is in high demand.
And so what's the
Brett Benner (23:40):
population?
Jemimah Wei (23:41):
Well, I six.
Brett Benner (23:45):
Wow.
Jemimah Wei (23:45):
Yeah, we're super well populated, which is why all
buildings like grow upwards.
So we have like very highbuildings.
Yeah.
If you live in a house that justhas one story, like, like a
cartoon house, that's like a, areal sign of wealth.
'cause you didn't have to goupwards.
Yeah.
Brett Benner (24:02):
Interesting.
I didn't, but I didn't realizethere were so many people in
that concentrated area.
'cause I thought you were gonnabe like, oh, well it's, you
know, that's, that's amazing.
Jemimah Wei (24:09):
But not only is it like.
Extremely overpopulated, right?
It's a tiny society.
And so there is a sense that youwill want to care for your
parents, like the Asiangeneration.
And so yeah, you'll then, you'llmake decisions moving forward
based on what you want anymore.
You make it based on how can Isupport my family?
How can I, how can I be the bestperson in my community as well?
(24:31):
Um.
I, I don't know, like at a youngage that can be a lot of
self-inflicted and communityinflicted pressure.
That is not deliberate pressure,but it, it exists.
It's like atmospheric pressure.
And also like this is in thebook as well, but because
everybody knows everybody, youknow, there's no seven degrees
of separation in Singapore, it'slike two degrees or three
degrees.
So there is a sense really thatthere, you can't make a misstep,
(24:53):
um, because it's very hard toclimb back on the bandwagon if
you're falling behind.
And also that, you know, there'sno true sense of total anonymity
or.
And I think that is somethingthat really shapes my
character's decisions movingforward in different ways.
Brett Benner (25:07):
Well, and I'm thinking about their, their
living arrangements because, youknow, they, they live in this
house with the parents and thenthe grandmother at the start of
it.
It's a very small area.
It's, and literally there's noprivacy for any of them.
I'm wondering, going back, doyou feel that, in terms of the
(25:27):
school system, in terms of thosepressures, do you think that
that's,'cause we should alsoclarify that this is set in the
nineties in the beginning, butdo you think that some of that's
changed?
Jemimah Wei (25:36):
Yeah, I think they're trying to change, so the
book starts in 1995, and I thinkback then it was like.
Really, really, reallystressful.
And there were repercussions,right?
Like people, there were allthese studies.
I think there was this likeregional study.
It was like, Singaporeans arereally unhappy.
And then so the government gotstressed and they were like, we
are unhappy.
We're not unhappy.
We're really happy actually.
(25:56):
And so they did.
They did recognize that.
It's not sustainable for peopleto be constantly having like
breakdowns how stress they are.
And so there are all thesethings implemented to try and
have like more rest, a morebalanced lifestyle or to move
away from grades, like thegrading system to move away from
awards.
So when, like I mentionedearlier, I used to be a soprano.
The, the competition for that,the highest award, you get goal
(26:16):
with honors and now they don'tdo that anymore.
They just, it's like, you know,it used to be bronze, silver,
gold, gold with honors and theydon't do it anymore because they
don't want to have like an awardsystem type to it.
They moved it away from that.
But I do think that there's.
Like radical systemic change.
People still are aware of thosecompetitive elements and the way
they evaluate, you know, whothey take in for their
(26:37):
internships, the way they takein, who, who they taken for
their jobs still ends up comingdown to like the sense of
competency, which is very, very,very highly valued in Singapore.
I, I do think we are kind offamous for it.
It is the Singaporean brand.
You're super efficient, superresponsible, super productive,
and just like super competent.
And people aren't born that we,they're kind of like meat that
(26:59):
we, yeah.
Yeah.
Brett Benner (27:00):
Well, and this is interesting'cause it segues
almost into Aaron mm-hmm.
In terms of born and made.
Um, because this trajectory ofher character is so fascinating
because this is not a spoilerand we don't, I don't do
spoilers on said, but it's not aspoiler in that she begins to
become.
Famous ultimately as an actress,but in the beginning as a, like
a social media personality.
(27:22):
And this whole thing fascinatedme.
First of all, I have to back upwith you a little bit because as
I was, as I was reading the bookand then diving into you, and
all of a sudden I was watchingyou, you know, do something for
Lineage on one of your, youknow, a photography thing.
So I, I wanted to ask you howthat started for you in terms of
becoming involved in socialmedia and, and, and capitalizing
(27:43):
on it.
Jemimah Wei (27:44):
I was kind of scouted.
And then I started doing areality TV show, and this was
like, I think very, very earlydays.
Um, I think, I think YouTubemaybe wasn't like a massive
thing yet.
I mean, we were still flirtingwith the internet back then.
It wasn't, it wasn't on YouTube,it was on like a, a different
like TV network online.
(28:04):
And later I made a transition toYouTube and I did that for, I
wanna say a good eight years.
So I think I.
I know.
Yeah, so I did, I specialize inlike travel and reality and so I
did that, bought a network.
I did a couple of travel shows.
I moved into doing someproducing and directing writing
scripts that I was interestedin, and I do feel like that
(28:27):
opened up a whole different lifefor me.
I, I had a really, I wanna sayblessed experience.
I was scouted by a woman.
I had very strong femalementors.
I immediately, when I started,was taken under the wing of some
veteran kind of likepersonalities or TV host in
Singapore.
And so I kind of always feltprotected and prepared going
(28:47):
into this.
And even then it waschallenging, you know, to
suddenly be ultra perceived froma young age.
I was, I've always beenextremely fascinated by this
because I feel like.
Back then there was a sense ofpotential and real like
excitement around where thisindustry could go.
You know, there is this sensethat.
To be like a traditionalcelebrity, to be an actress or,
(29:10):
um, you know, a a like a theateractress or a TV actress.
You need to have certain thingsin place, or you need to be
extremely good looking or uniquelooking in a very polished way.
You need to have certain thingsset up in life.
And then to have like otherkinds of careers, you need to
have like privilege ofbackground, of economic
fluidity, of like certain, likeacademic, you know, merits.
(29:35):
With the internet, it almostfelt like you just had to be
really, really interested insomething.
Like you could be like, Ifucking love shoe laces.
Like I'm obsessed with shoelaces.
There are like two 50 of shoelaces, right?
And if you were just limited tothe 30 people in your classroom,
they would be like, oh my God,what a freak.
Like who cares about, who caresabout shoe laser wear Velcro.
(29:57):
But you go on the internet,you're like, I love shoe laser
on Tumblr and like.
2000 people will be like, I alsolove shoe laces.
And one person's in France, oneperson's in Vietnam, one
person's in New York, like, youknow?
And suddenly there's this way tolike a amass.
A great sense of like, I couldhave a niche.
I could have a niche, and all Ineeded is an internet connection
and a voice and an opinion onsomething.
(30:18):
And right now, you know, I thinkwe have moved past that and we
are now in the center.
There's this huge skepticismtowards anything see online.
And I definitely get that.
I feel like it's become sosaturated with.
External branding andinvestment, because I, I
definitely think that that waslike a natural development
because anytime there's a spacewith eyeballs, the brands come
in.
They're like, all right, how canwe capitalize this on this?
(30:38):
And there's just a function ofliving in a hyper capitalistic
society.
But you have like a coupleoptions, right?
You can like, you row the wholething and be like, like Henry
David Toro, and be like, I wannalive in the woods.
Like, I don't wanna live in thissociety.
Oh, you can be like, this is alife I have.
What can I do?
To survive in this life.
And I think that is likesomething that is extremely
Singaporean as well.
(30:58):
Like the sense of like how do wesurvive, how do we adapt and
what does resilience look like?
And I think that looks differentfor everybody.
So for the girls in the boat,one way they think they can move
classes or move out of theirlife circumstances is to tap on
this really new industry and seelike where it can take them.
So they, they try and optimizeit.
(31:21):
They try to optimize every otherpart of their lives to varying
ends and yeah.
So that's my, that's my littleTed talk.
Brett Benner (31:28):
Yeah.
No, you're, you're so right.
But it's so funny because it'sjust the way that so much of
this is almost built intosociety's DNA.
I have a, you know, I have twokids.
My son is older, he is 21, mydaughter is a senior.
But to watch this effect of thesocial media and the influencers
(31:50):
on her in particular has been soincredibly fascinating and.
You know, beyond the obvious,which I'm gonna say, which was
for many young girls in America,it's the Kardashians, right?
That's some of what their launchoff point into what they're
seeing.
For better or for worse, I.
There's a quote from the bookthat says, and I loved this, it
(32:11):
says, relatability wasn't asrevered as pure talent was the
condemning of commercializationof personality as an
intellectual failing, which ofcourse, I always think of that
in terms of when I'm firstrailing against the Kardashians
in the beginning.
And I was like, you know, I knowthat skims exists now.
Right?
I know that.
I know that.
The, the, they have a makeupline, but they wouldn't have had
(32:32):
that previously.
And you have to understand thatit came from
Jemimah Wei (32:35):
something else.
It's interesting because I dothink that in the very early
days, the people who firstrecognized that image, your
control over your own image is akind of currency, did have first
move advantage.
You know, they did understandthat it's not, the internet is
in a freewheeling place whereyou can be yourself Totally.
What goes on the internet, kindof on the internet.
(32:56):
It's like there are, you have tobe careful going in.
And I think for me, I, I grew upwithout very much media.
Like I didn't, I don't think Ihad a TV until like I was a
little older.
I basically just like read booksas a kid and never really had
like a movie or TV watchinghabit.
And so
Brett Benner (33:12):
is that what, is that because of your parents'
influence or is that justbecause of your own interest?
Jemimah Wei (33:15):
Uh, I kind of combination of both.
I think we just had no money,so.
Brett Benner (33:19):
Yeah.
Okay.
Jemimah Wei (33:20):
Like, you know, going to the movies was
expensive and, um.
It was just like what wasavailable to us.
Right.
So when I was growing up, I, Ithink we didn't have a tv'cause
I don't have a memory of a TVuntil I was, until my second
sister was born.
Then I remember Deb being a TVwhen she was a little older, but
growing up I just never watchedit.
And so I would just read booksthat, um, family, friends, like
(33:43):
passed down.
Mm-hmm.
That was very much just like theway I patched things together,
you know?
Uh, friends, you know, myparents' friends or like church
people, when their kids grew up,grew out their clothes, they
would pass it down to me.
And then when I grew out up,I'll pass it down to somebody
else.
Um, you know, like books, youknow, whatever people had grown
out of, they would just pass itdown.
I would just read whatever.
So I read a lot of reallyinappropriate stuff because they
(34:03):
didn't bet.
They just gave it, yeah,wholesale.
So I just read everything Icould get my hands on.
And so because of that, Ididn't, I actually didn't grow
up with like, the sense of whatthe media was in my head, like
media images.
And so I do feel like I have aslight.
I feel I've adapted to it, butI, I do have a slightly like,
uh, strange relationship withit.
I think there's a sense of likeotherness, I feel with this idea
(34:25):
of like, it, like you and themirror of yourself because I, I
do see it too.
I see now like a lot of peopleare like growing up in this
generation, are livingconstantly making micro
adjustments.
To their everyday behavior,almost subconsciously, because
growing up with social media,instead of having it come into
your life halfway through, it'salmost like having this mirror
(34:45):
installed in front of you at alltimes, and so you're not just.
Even if there's no audience,even if the audience is just
yourself, you are viewingyourself as you, as an audience
would.
And so you're constantly likeadjusting yourself or like
saying something and thenthinking, taking a about and
revising it and coming out witha smarter, sharper, wittier
version.
Almost like a constant rehearsalfor what it would be like to be
(35:06):
out in public.
And I think the real skill now,I mean, so maybe like 10 years
ago, the real school isrealizing that your control of
your image is a currency.
I think now what it is, isrealizing that that.
It's a compartmentalized andseparate version of your life,
and there is a private life thatyou must nurture and that you
must have that has to be justfor you.
Otherwise, very quickly, ouridentity or our sense of self
(35:28):
becomes dispersed because we aregiving parts of it to other
people all the time for theexternal feedback.
And I don't know if that'ssustainable.
Brett Benner (35:36):
No, and it's interesting because I've said
that the whole idea of celebrityhas changed so much because of
social media, because you know,when I grew up.
Celebrities were, and this is aconversation again I've had with
my daughter because if I saycelebrity to her, she will list
four, five different YouTubepersonalities that she is
obsessed with.
But I was explaining to herwhen, you know, when I was
(35:57):
young, a celebrity was MerylStreep.
It was Tom Cruise, it was the,the movie stars, the people you
went into a dark theater and sawthey were the people you watched
on tv.
But.
I think social media has done iskind of pulled a lot of those
walls down and made so manypeople accessible in our own
minds to think like, well, Icould possibly speaking for
(36:19):
myself now, I could possiblydate Pedro Pascal, but it's.
Suddenly and, and, and, but it'sremoved.
So many of those barriers thatwhat we used to think of as
celebrities and who we used tothink of as quote unquote movie
stars, they aren't anymore.
So again, it speaks to whatyou're saying about finding this
way to separate a public with aprivate thing and.
(36:42):
Movie stars in particular, orcelebrities, they were very
private.
You didn't know anything abouttheir personal lives unless a PR
person was putting a statementout or something about their
marriage or their divorce orsomething to that effect, but
you didn't know the day to day.
Well, now they're coming out ofa Costco.
And their sweatpants lookinglike hell about to, you know,
load in their toilet paper.
(37:03):
We're, we're getting access topeople in unprecedented ways we
never have before.
And it's, it's breaking it alldown.
And at the same time, takingpeople who have learned how to,
like you said, understand theircurrency but might not
necessarily have a skill to backit up, but have something that
is appealing to people andpeople want to watch and brands.
(37:27):
Understand immediately, well,let's use this person to
capitalize.
Jemimah Wei (37:31):
Mm-hmm.
I think it's like very widelypared, but social media does
breed a lot of resentmentbecause it brings, yeah.
Competitiveness and comparisoninto your pocket.
And I do think the whole likeidea of relatability is a double
H sword.
Right?
You are so relatable.
That's why people love you.
On the flip side of that, you'reso relatable.
People are like, well, we arethe same.
(37:53):
So why you and not me?
And I think that's something oneof the girls like really has to
balance like that navigationwith public, like public
sentiment and how to dancearound that.
Because then it also becomes athing where there's, you know,
there are certain things she canno longer say in wider circles,
but that character is veryprivate to begin with.
(38:14):
She really only like confides inlike two or three people like
her family, um, and does notlike form strong relationships
outside of that.
That's like a sense of ness thatI, that I find common, you know,
for people in the industry.
Brett Benner (38:26):
I'm wondering if you found, when you were writing
this, and I know that, you know,people always wanna find
parallels between, you know,fiction and fact.
Jemimah Wei (38:35):
Mm-hmm.
Brett Benner (38:35):
Um, but as I went through the book, I couldn't
help but wonder sometimes ifGenevieve and Aaron were this
merging of parts of you.
This combination.
I kept thinking.
Are these parts of Jemima thatare coming together anyway?
Jemimah Wei (38:54):
Well, which question, which answer would
entice, would abide the votemore?
We just go that answer.
Brett Benner (39:01):
That is spoken like a, like a true social media
influencer.
Jemimah Wei (39:07):
Well, okay, so more seriously.
Right.
I do think that for artists,your work grows out of your
sensibility.
And so it would be disingenuousto be like, well, I wrote this
book about like, uh, a dolphingrowing up off the coast of
America and that's nothing to dowith my entire life.
You know?
So even that, even that would.
A sensibility that is born ofthe artist's vision.
(39:30):
Sure.
And so I do think thateverything in this book and
everything I've ever writtenright, that's boom.
From that same sensibility thatI have like worked very hard to,
you know, like nourish and grow.
And so yeah, I guess, I guessmaybe like yes and no, that
would be.
It would be a too, it would betoo boring if the character's
(39:53):
kind of like totally correlatedwith my own experiences because
I had like a really, you know,my life is like.
Objectively not thatinteresting.
And so I had to like reallynavigate a lot of things in the
story to like really make itmore exciting, like story-wise.
And I think that's one of theprivileges of art, right?
You are able to filter like aperspective or a sensibility
(40:17):
through the lens of thesecharacters or these stories that
you can then kind of like.
Dilute or intensify in order tobring a point across or to bring
a story across.
And that, I guess, is what I wastrying to do through the,
through the book.
But I think to your question oflike readers trying to find
correlational points, Idefinitely get that and I
understand why there's thatsense.
(40:37):
I have that sense too when Iread other people's work or I
watch like films and I justthink to myself, you know, there
is a, a lot of debut writershave this fear that you write a
book and people are gonna belike, they're gonna think it's
me.
So.
That is like a very valid fear,I think.
But my question then is, is thatfear?
I mean, people are always gonnafeel that way.
So is that fear large enough tothen override?
(40:59):
The other thing, the other fearthat I have, and the other fear
that I have, is that there arenot that many Singaporean
writers.
There are, there's a growingnumber, but I can still count
them on like one hand or liketwo hands.
And so.
If I don't write an ultra localstory with very specific things
about the thing about it, I knowand I love, and that I process
like through a specific lens anda contemporary period in our
history, people, it's not gonnamake it into literary canon.
(41:23):
It's not gonna make it intosomething that I can hold and
that, um, I can hold as anobjective.
Like, like, like manifestedreality, like a physical object
when the country and the worldchanges so fast and then we are
just gonna be left with thememories of.
You know, like our memory'sunreliable.
We are subject to nostalgia, tosentimentality, and it's not
(41:44):
that books are not that thing,but you know, I work the hardest
that I can to make this like.
Really as true as possible tothe lives of these characters
that I've created.
And I've put in stuff that'svery specific to things that I
love.
Like I put my friend's,parents', businesses, names in
there.
I named the junior college aftermy husband.
(42:05):
I was like, this is not a realschool.
I just named it after him.
I was like, I want, I want thisto go down in history.
I put in like.
You know, just like littleEaster eggs for my friends and
my family in there that theywould read and be like, oh,
that's my, that's myneighborhood aunt.
That's my mom's like noodleshop.
You know?
And that was important to mebecause I don't think there's
like an intellectual purity tobeing like, I invented
everything.
(42:25):
There is like no correlation inreality.
And I think that is kind of likesometimes a defensive fear
against people then accusing youof having no imagination, which
to me is a moot, it's a mootpoint.
Like I don't, that's not a realargument.
And so.
That fear of like having peoplethink, oh, is this your life?
It's not great enough toovercome the fear that we would
(42:46):
then have these stories lost tohistory.
And when you're from a smallcountry, when you are so far
from being part of the globalmajority and publishing, you
think to yourself, if you don'twrite these stories, the stories
of your country and of yourhistory are gonna be the stories
other people tell of you.
And I don't want that.
That's a worst fear that peoplethinking this might be about her
life.
I mean, people can have whateveropinions they want.
(43:07):
I don't mind.
They just have to buy the book,which then entitle them to have
any opinion they want.
They don't have to tell me thoseopinions.
They can just have them as longas they buy the beautiful hot
cover that has just come in.
So
Brett Benner (43:18):
what did, what did somebody say?
I think it was, um, uh, to Lulabanked once said, well, I don't
care what they're saying aboutme, as long as they're saying it
about me.
And, um, and it's a little bitof that.
I said earlier at the very startof this, and it's kind of a
great way to bookend because itsurprised me in so many ways.
I don't know what I wasoriginally thinking.
Well, I will say this.
(43:40):
I was originally thinking, andplease, I hope you can hear this
without, I don't mean anything,but when I first saw it, I was
like, mm-hmm.
Will this be the chit?
That's what I thought, and I gotinto it and it couldn't have
been further from that.
And I found myself reading thisso slowly because I didn't want
(44:00):
it to end.
And I don't always find that,and especially when I'm reading
for, say even for the podcastand I'm just trying to get
through a lot of stuff I.
But I put myself against somekind of weird deadline.
'cause I was like, I know I hadto finish the book before I sat
down with you, and yet I didn'twant to go through this quickly
because A, the writing was sobeautiful, like as evidenced by
(44:23):
my tabs.
I just was marking so much.
But also I was so drawn to thesetwo women and this story that I
really didn't want it to findout what was going to be.
Stop, so,
Jemimah Wei (44:38):
oh,
Brett Benner (44:39):
anyway.
Jemimah Wei (44:39):
Thank you.
I mean, so firstly, I wouldnever take offense to people
thinking it's.
Chick lit or whatever of thatgenre means because I grew up
reading a lot of chick lit, youknow, I feel like, and I read
some of
Brett Benner (44:50):
it too.
Yeah.
I mean,
Jemimah Wei (44:52):
shopaholic series, anybody.
So like any entry into readingto me is a good entry.
You know, I don't care howpeople get into reading as long
as they do.
And so, you know, love it.
Would never feel any type of wayabout it.
Um, but number two, like, youknow, I just, that that response
means so much to me.
I feel like it was Jess Walterwho in his essay in the time of
Galley slaves, talks about this,where the writer's greatest
(45:15):
material.
On and off the page is time andwhen people, I.
Describe how a book affects'emor like your work affects'em.
It is also a way of likecontrolling time because they
either like go, oh, I read it soquickly I couldn't get out of
it.
Like, you know, I couldn't putit down, which is a kind of
controlling reader's time, or Ididn't want it to end, which is
a way of wanting to live intime.
(45:36):
And so that relationship withtime is something that I am
super like conscious of, youknow, as a writer because,
because I, I will likeprogresses and renovate so fast.
That we, we live in a time ofgreat velocity.
I think.
I think there is like a realwhiplash to, to, to, to being in
the world, which I don't thinkwe are humanly equipped to live.
(45:58):
Like, you know, I just don'tthink that ourselves are
equipped to live at this pace.
And so a lot of that like kindof informed the way I framed
and, um, work through the book.
But now like, you know, hearingthe way readers respond to it
with their own like relationshiptwo time, it, it just like, it
means so much to me.
I.
Brett Benner (46:18):
So what's next?
Do you know?
And if you don't wanna talkabout it, maybe you can't or
don't know yet, that's fine.
But I'm so curious.
I saw somewhere I thought whereyou were working on some short
stories.
Jemimah Wei (46:28):
Yeah, I mean, my answer changes every day
depending on when you've caughtme.
Like if you caught me just wokeup from a nap, I'm in a really
good mood.
I'm like, do, I'm working onfive things.
Uh, and if you catch you on abed riding day, like I'm working
on nothing.
But so I am, I do know what thenext few books are gonna look
like.
I have known, I think for awhile, and it's just about which
(46:48):
one is catching.
So I'm working on severalprojects and I think part of
like writing, sort of seeing howfar you go with each one before
they start to feel like take ontheir own shape and do their own
thing Interesting.
And gain their own likeacceleration.
But yeah, there's like somethings I'm working on and.
Like mainly I think I'm justsaturated in a sense of like
relief because when you work onthe debut for so long, like, so
this book, you know, I startedwriting in 2014 when it comes
(47:11):
out this year is 2025.
It would've been 11 years sinceI wrote the first word, which is
nuts.
And if the next one takes 11years, I'm just gonna fall down
and perish.
But you know, like I do feellike, I do feel like you as an
artist.
Prior to releasing your firstpiece of work, your artistic
identity can feel so codependentwith this one debut, right?
(47:33):
It can feel like if it doesn't,if you don't finish the book, if
this book isn't everything thatyou tried to do with it
ambitiously, like artistically,you, you, you would've failed as
an artist or you would not bethe artist you think you are.
And I feel like finishing thebook and having it leave my
hands and go into thepublisher's hands, the copy
editor, the cover designer,readers, sales reps, everything,
you know, bookstore.
That has been really amazing forme because it just feels.
(47:56):
I, I have this new freedom to goin whatever direction I want to
for my art.
I, I would never have to belike, am I a writer?
Because, you know, like comingto your, I mean, we're book
ending this, right?
Coming to your first everquestion.
Yeah.
I'm a writer.
I, you know, the evidence.
It's out there.
So yeah.
You know, um, there, there,there is like, I, I don't have
that sense anymore of, you know,am I a writer?
(48:18):
Maybe my new sense, my newquestion is, what kind of writer
do I wanna be moving forward?
What kind of art do I wannamake?
What kind of questions do Iwanna interrogate?
And I do know what my concernsare broadly, and I think it's
about finding the perfect shapefor them.
And so I've made these planswith this book, I've started
writing different projects and Ithink it's, and I think one
great thing I've learned about,I.
(48:39):
Writing this book is that bookstake a really long time, so I'm
trying to teach myself to bepatient and not be like, well,
we have to have a draft withinthe year, which is not the kind
of like writer I think I amanyway.
I don't think I can produce likeone book a year, and so I'm
just, you know, trying to takeit easy and trying to show up
for the book where I can,because I feel very much like a,
like a vaguely affectionate.
(49:01):
Mom where I've like made thisfirst born daughter and she's
now like going off into theworld and doing her thing and I
feel like, great, good job.
It's like that meme of that AmyPolar, I think with the video
camera thing you're doingamazing, sweetie.
Keep it up.
I feel like that's me.
I'm like, you are amazing.
You know, you, you are a realbook.
You are a real girl out in theworld.
(49:22):
I'm so happy for you andwhatever I can control.
Like, you know, if they're like.
Come and do this event or comeand like talk to this book club.
I would totally do it'cause Iwanna show up for my first born,
but I don't think that I cancontrol anything else about
that.
You know how readers take it.
Who the who, you know, herreaders are who she finally
resonates with.
All of that is outta my controland does not objectively change
(49:43):
anything in the book.
The book that I've written isalways gonna be the book.
The words are always gonna bethe same words.
And so the reception is like adifferent part of the book's
life.
That is not really my.
Kind of my business I think.
Brett Benner (49:57):
Interesting.
Yeah.
Jemimah Wei (49:58):
And so, yeah, that like has been really wonderful
because then I can, I feel likeI can like feel very
affectionate to this book goingout and then work on the next
one, turn my attention to mychildren who need more
attention.
'cause they're information.
Brett Benner (50:14):
Exactly.
I Exactly.
I love, I love that.
And, and, and find out which oneof your children is the most
ambitious towards their.
Creator.
Jemimah Wei (50:25):
Mm-hmm.
And
Brett Benner (50:26):
needs.
And needs it first.
Well, I think she's justbeautiful and I'm so excited to
see what happens with both herand you.
I mean, again, I.
I feel so lucky and privilegedto be sitting with you today.
'cause this is really, it'sreally beyond a spectacular
debut.
It's just a spectacular book tome.
(50:46):
So congratulations on all of it.
I'm, I'm, uh, thrilled for you.
Jemimah Wei (50:51):
Oh, thank you so, so, so much.
Like, this is so lovely andhearing you talk about the book,
really, it's just, I, I, it'shard for me to put into words,
which is ironic, but I just dofeel like the feeling's too big
for me because I get it.
Yeah.
It's um.
For the longest time, justfinishing the book was the
dream.
So everything beyond that, it'sbeyond my wildest dreams
(51:12):
already.
Um, it's, it's hard to step intothat feeling.
I think
Brett Benner (51:17):
I'm, I'm so happy this book is out there.
I'm so happy for people toexperience you, I should say,
and your work, and I just thinkit's great.
So.
Congratulations.
Jemimah Wei (51:27):
Thank you.
Thank you, thank you, thank you,thank you.
Brett Benner (51:31):
Thank you again, Jemima.
And if you like theseconversations and like what
you're hearing, please considerliking and subscribing to the
podcast.
And another thing that would beincredibly helpful, if you have
the time, if you could leave areview on one of your podcast
platforms of choice, that inparticular is really, really
helpful and I would really,really appreciate it.
(51:52):
Have a good week everyone, and Iwill.
See you next week.
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