May 20, 2025 • 31 mins
In this episode Brett is joined again by bookstagram favs Bernie Lombardi & Christopher Metts to discuss books that play with the idea of summer whether as a vibe, an escape, or something you just might not be able to put down.
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https://www.instagram.com/christophermetts/
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https://www.instagram.com/bernie.lombardi/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Brett Benner (00:00):
Hey everybody.
It's Brett Benner and welcome orwelcome back to another episode
of Behind the Stack.
Before we get into today'sepisode, there are two books
coming out today that I wantedto mention.
The first is called Aftertasteby Daria, Lavelle, which says,
what if you could have one lastmeal with someone you've loved,
someone you've lost?
(00:21):
Combining the magic of Under theWhispering Door with the high
stakes culinary world of SweetBitter aftertaste is an epic
love story, a dark comedy, and asynthetic adventure through food
and grief, or as I like to say,it sounds like something between
the bear.
And ghost.
So that is out today.
The other book that I thinksounds particularly interesting
(00:42):
and is an author I really likeis Chris Pavone, his new book,
the Doorman, in this new novelOn the worst night in the
Greatest City on Earth, adoorman at the Tonys address in
town is drawn into a web ofintrigue, robbery, and murder.
But now onto today's episode,I'm really happy to be joined
again by my.
(01:03):
bookstagram Pals, BernieLombardi and Christopher Metts
to discuss some summer books andbooks that give a summer vibe.
So please enjoy this episode ofBehind the Stack.
Welcome everybody.
I, I am so excited to have backto the show.
(01:25):
Bernie Lombardi and ChristopherMetts, the darlings of Instagram
for anybody who's on Instagramand follows them, they are
beyond charming and with thereels, with their posts, they
have incredible tastes in whatthey read and such an eclectic
taste in what they read, whichis one of the reasons I wanted
to have them here today.
As we're about to gear up intothe summer months and summer
(01:46):
readings.
So I thought what better peopleto have on the show today to
talk about some choice reads forsummer?
So thank you guys so much forbeing here.
I'm so curious.
I know you follow all of thebook prizes, which takes up a
big part of your year.
Mm-hmm.
So do you find the summer monthsyou, you're reading changes in
the summer?
Christopher Metts (02:06):
A hundred percent.
This is like the downtimebetween prizes too.
So it's kind of where it's niceto have this space between the
prizes where we can dive backinto our back list, look at some
arcs that maybe didn't get,recognition just yet, and also
explore our favorite authors.
So it seems like an open-endedopportunity this summer on
(02:28):
multiple levels, reading andtraveling, and all the above.
Bernie Lombardi (02:32):
No, I mean the Booker prize long list
announcement is always at theend of July, so it's only half
the summer with two month I'mtalking about are June and No, I
know, but I would just, I wouldjust say when I think of the
summer, I think of the Bookerprize long list, and so I would
say the first half of the summeris kind of what Chris described
for me at least, is what Chrisdescribed as like kind of like
(02:54):
you're trying to like get to thestuff.
That you'll then be distractedfrom Yeah.
During the second half of thesummer when we're reading the
Booker prize long list.
Yeah.
And, and, and you're also likekind of in the back of your head
trying to guess like what'sgonna be on the Booker long list
and trying not right to, tryingnot to read those things because
then.
(03:15):
'cause there's people who dothat and then they just like
disappoint themselves when thosebooks don't get long listed.
But yeah.
Brett Benner (03:20):
But isn't it also the greatest thing when the
Booker prize list or any ofthese prize lists are announced
and you've already read likethree or four of them?
Yes.
Yeah.
It is
Christopher Metts (03:29):
the best
Brett Benner (03:30):
game.
Bernie Lombardi (03:33):
Uh, the, the National Book Award, when that
was announced in September.
Last year I had read half thelist and that was like amazing.
That's, that's the only timeanything like that has ever
happened, but I know, and thenyou
Brett Benner (03:44):
can coast, I don't know that there's many people
who approach the internationalbooker and like, oh, I already
read all of these.
Yeah.
Or like half of them, or eventwo of them.
Yeah.
So
Christopher Metts (03:54):
two is like big win.
Brett Benner (03:55):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Completely.
Do you fine with the readingthat you do over the summer?
I mean before, so we'll say likelaunch off is Memorial Day
weekend for you guys.
Yeah, exactly.
But does it change tonally?
Is it lighter stuff?
Is it stuff that you can breezethrough or is it, does it
matter?
Is your reading?
Your reading?
Bernie Lombardi (04:13):
I would say no for me.
I don't know what you think.
Christopher Metts (04:15):
Yeah.
I feel like Bernie's reading ispretty stable.
Throughout.
It's mostly depressing, so he'lljust be depressed more in the
summer.
I think I tend to go a littlelighter in the summer.
Something that is maybe a littlemore, um, page turny, but I
don't think I consciously dothat.
But I think that maybe I justtend to move towards the ones
(04:38):
that are, are gonna give me thateasy comfort on travels or on a
plane or something that doesn'ttake too much time to like dig
into.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
But Bernie is the same always.
Brett Benner (04:53):
And Bernie is consistently, he's consistently,
Bernie Lombardi (04:58):
I do, I do like a good like summer vibe, like,
like a summer, like a hot, aatmosphere, like a hot
Mediterranean, Europeanatmosphere.
Though I do feel like I, I,I'll, I'll read those like when
it's not summer to like, make methink of summer.
Brett Benner (05:12):
But this sounds like the, the, this is the
academic in you coming out.
You know, completely.
You know, so just, uh, yeah, Idon't listen.
I, there's, I don't know why,but lately I keep bagging on her
and I don't mean to bag on her.
'cause I've, I, I actually haveread one and enjoyed it.
But I was gonna say, I don'tpicture you reading like the
latest Emily Henry.
That's what I was gonna say.
Bernie Lombardi (05:32):
No, but actually I'm, I'm supposed to,
I'm supposed to read one,supposed to this summer.
This summer.
Oh really?
I'm supposed to read her in thesummer if I'm gonna read her.
Yeah.
Christopher Metts (05:41):
I think he, honestly though, I think he said
that last summer.
I, and I didn't, I think he saidthis last summer and we put a
hold on the Libby book so youcan listen to it on audio.
And it's been,
Bernie Lombardi (05:49):
it's
Christopher Metts (05:50):
still like popped up and then
Bernie Lombardi (05:51):
we, and then I push it forward.
We keep pushing it back.
It's still there.
Brett Benner (05:55):
You're like, come back in 21 days when I'm ready
for it.
Give it to the next person.
You know, I've done that too.
Okay, so.
Just for our viewers, ourlisteners, I told these guys
that, it doesn't matter to mewhat their books are in terms of
its front list or if it's backlist.
I'm more just interested in sometitles that they're interested
in, that they're gonna maybe getto this summer and that might
peak or that they've alreadygotten to and feel they're great
(06:18):
recommendations for somebody toread this summer.
So, who wants to go first?
Chris,
Christopher Metts (06:25):
what's the first question?
Brett Benner (06:26):
Give me a book that you would recommend for the
this start Easy book.
A book you'd recommend for thesummer.
Christopher Metts (06:32):
A book I'd recommend for the summer, which
it's kind of spring vibes, butOkay.
I read it in the summer and Ithink that's why I associate it
with the summer, but it would beTom Lake by in Patchett.
I read this in Mexico, in thepool.
And so that's why I think fondlyof it for the summer vibes, but
it also kind of gives you thatsummer taste.
(06:52):
You know, it's there by a lakeon this, like camp where
they're, you know, putting on a,on the play Our Town.
And it's reflective with goingback in time to the mom telling
her kids this story and thengoing into the story.
By the lake.
It's very nostalgic, which Ialso think is very summer.
'cause a lot of times when Ithink of the summer, I think of
(07:13):
nostalgia.
'cause I think of all like thefun times you have with your
friends or with, when you go oncamp or you know, go on vacation
with your family.
And I feel like that this bookgives all of that.
So that's why I, I think it's agood
Brett Benner (07:26):
Now did you read it or did you listen to it?
I
Christopher Metts (07:28):
read it.
I did the physical read.
Brett Benner (07:31):
Yeah, I read it too.
And then I wished no.
I read it too, and then halfwaythrough.
I got the audio because MerylStreep did the audio.
Christopher Metts (07:40):
That's what I heard.
Brett Benner (07:42):
Interestingly, I saw Anne Patchett at this event
here in Los Angeles talkingabout the book and she told the
story of how she got MerylStreep to do it, which, it was
some kind of connection between,um, Emily Blunt, who she'd done
the Devil Wars prato with.
Mm-hmm.
Her sister is married to StanleyTucci and she is a, a book
(08:04):
agent.
Mm-hmm.
And so,.
I think Stanley got her somehowconnected with the number and
they said just email her.
And and you know, true like AnnePatchett story, she was like, do
you want to know how I got MerylStreep to read the book?
And the audience was like, yes.
And she's like, I asked MerylStreep to read my book and.
(08:25):
And so she just emailed her andshe said, I would love for you
to read this.
And it's about a mo, a mom who'san actress and a summer stock
and blah, blah, blah.
And Meryl Streep wrote back andsaid, I'd love to do it.
And she said, do you wanna, doyou wanna read it first?
And she's like, no, I've readyour other stuff.
I trust you.
It's fine.
So I was like, that's soamazing.
Right?
Christopher Metts (08:41):
Yeah.
Did you, you listened to itthough?
Bernie Lombardi (08:43):
No, I haven't.
I haven't read it yet.
You haven't read it?
Brett Benner (08:45):
I loved it.
And I agree with you.
It is like quintessential, likesummer stock, that whole vibes
of.
All of it.
And like picking cherries andthe whole thing.
Oh yeah, the cherries for sure.
Christopher Metts (08:58):
Yeah.
You love cherries.
That's your favorite pie.
I do
Bernie Lombardi (09:00):
love cherries.
Christopher Metts (09:01):
Yeah, there's cherries in it.
We'll definitely go do kindafun.
Brett Benner (09:04):
What about you Bern
Bernie Lombardi (09:05):
Okay.
I have two for this one.
One's a, one's a funny one, andone's, they're
Christopher Metts (09:09):
both depressing.
Bernie Lombardi (09:10):
No, they're not.
You
Christopher Metts (09:12):
read this?
I mean, I thought it was
Bernie Lombardi (09:13):
No, what's not?
Okay.
Christopher Metts (09:15):
Anyway, one is,
Bernie Lombardi (09:16):
Okay.
So the first one is a funny onebecause it's a book that I read
on a beach vacation and itignited an obsession for me.
So like, I just imagine mereading this on the, on the, the
beach, just like Obsessed theRoad by Corman McCarthy.
And those just I what?
Write it on vacation.
(09:37):
This spark my, my obsession,
Brett Benner (09:40):
Christopher.
Now I understand.
Bernie Lombardi (09:43):
I recommend that I, I'm not lying.
We flew back to New York.
We were on the subway oh, off ofour flight, and that's where I
finished it and I was likesobbing,
Christopher Metts (09:54):
crying on the, on the subway.
Bernie Lombardi (09:55):
So I wasn't crying on the beach, but I cried
after.
And then a better, a betterchoice would be hot milk by
Deborah Levy.
It was a finalist for the bookerin like, I don't know, like 10
years ago, 15 years ago, some,somewhere around there.
And it has like hotMediterranean summer.
Vacation vibes, like, you know,that, that they're from England.
(10:19):
I think I actually, it's been solong that I've read this that I
don't remember exactly.
And her book Swimming Home alsohas the same like hot
Mediterranean summer vacationkind of vibes.
But this is about a, a, a motherand daughter.
Um, and it's really good and Irecommend it.
And so this is, gives you smart,you know, good writing, but also
(10:40):
like, we'll transport you to thebeach.
Brett Benner (10:43):
In Europe, the Mediterranean.
My God, I love that.
Yeah.
What about a book thattransports you to somewhere
else?
Bernie Lombardi (10:50):
So I'm gonna say, and this is one that I've
read this year, and actually Iwould pair this with, you'll see
with the second one, which Idon't have with me right now, is
on the calculation of volume,one and two, they're both
transportive.
Two is actually very, like,literally about like moving
around.
Um,
Brett Benner (11:08):
mm-hmm.
Bernie Lombardi (11:09):
I, I Have you read these yet?
Brett Benner (11:10):
I read the first.
Bernie Lombardi (11:11):
So, for those who don't know, this is about,
this woman who is stuck on in asingle day.
So every time she wakes up, it'sNovember 18.
And so the second book, in thesecond book, she decides that
she's kind of like over a.
I dunno, over kind of likehoping that things will change
and now decides to kind of likebe proactive and she decides to
(11:32):
chase the seasons and so she,she'll, you know, she, so she,
she wants winter, so she, shetravels to, to the north of
Norway and then she wants, youknow, summer, so she goes to the
south of France and so she, soshe's, she's literally
transporting herself in the sameday but ar around Europe in
order to kind of like experiencedifferent still.
Brett Benner (11:54):
Okay, now I can't wait to start it.
'cause when I finished the firstone, my one thing is, how the
hell is she doing this for?
Like, right.
Are we really doing literaryGroundhog Day for seven volumes?
Like I was like, how many, howmany times did she wake up and
be like, all right, he's stillthere.
Whatever.
So, no, this,
Bernie Lombardi (12:12):
the husband actually only like is mentioned
like in like the beginning, onceor twice.
Yeah.
He's not, he's not even like,he's not really in it.
Not really in it.
Wow.
He became a CoStar,
Brett Benner (12:20):
like in Book CoStar gift
Christopher Metts (12:22):
that.
Like maybe guest appearance.
Brett Benner (12:24):
Yeah, right.
Also, yes.
Special appearance.
Buy or, you know, yes.
Yeah.
And credit.
So, and for sure maybe with, andonly had one day work.
Christopher Metts (12:34):
Mine is kind of the opposite of what you
would typically want from thesummer, but it's kind of more in
the vein of what Bernie saidwhere he flips between the
opposite season.
So he is like in the season thathe.
Is thinking about maybe adifferent season.
So in the winter, he is thinkingabout summer, but this is kind
of the opposite.
So this one definitely willtransport you, but to a very
cold place.
It's called Tology.
(12:55):
Mm-hmm.
So it's a three book.
This is the compilation of thethree books in the series.
The other name I is another anda new name, and it's by Jan
Fosse.
It's translated from Norwegian,and he's in this very, very
wintry cold town, but it justfollows his, his day-to-day
life.
It's actually kind of similar toon a calculation of volume and
(13:18):
that it's, varied.
It doesn't expand.
It's just, him kind of seeking.
Something, and you don'tnecessarily know what it is, but
he's exploring art, he'sexploring his relationship with
his neighbor, with maybe adoppelganger.
And he's also reflecting on hismemories of from childhood in
this same little town nearChristmas.
(13:39):
And it's, it's quite lovely andit's very soft, but it's
actually kind of propulsive.
So you flip right through it andyou wanna know what what's
happening, but you also arelike, feel the cold and you feel
the place and the time and.
It's magical, but it definitelydoesn't give you summer vibes,
but it it'll, it'll definitelytransport you.
Mm-hmm.
Brett Benner (13:58):
Yeah, I have that on my.
You know, that bookstagram thingthat some people do, which is
like 12 books recommended by 12friends.
Mm-hmm.
And that's on my list this yearto read.
Which of course I've, I don'tthink I've read one of the books
yet, so I'm, I'm already failingmiserably.
And, we're almost half and we'realmost halfway through the year.
I just have to prioritize.
(14:19):
I have to go more backlist.
I really have to go morebacklist.
Christopher Metts (14:22):
That one's admissible.
If you break it down into threebook.
In the three books.
'cause they're not too long asindividual books.
Brett Benner (14:29):
This one, this is coming out in June.
And I loved this because it is.
Totally small little Englishtown.
It's actually a mystery.
It's called Death at the WhiteHeart by Chris Chibnall.
Chris Chibnall created the show,broad Church.
I don't know if you guys everwatched that, heard of that with
Olivia Coleman.
And also a very young JonathanBailey.
(14:50):
And, um, but this takes place inthis very small town where
everyone knows each other and, abrand new young cop is driving
through the town one night andhe sees something on the road,
which he thinks is a deer, andas he gets closer, he realizes
it's, it's a man who's naked andtied to a chair with antlers
(15:11):
planted on his head.
And so the whole thing becomesin this very small town, who
these people are, but it, it, italmost feels like an Agatha
Christie novel, but.
It's very contemporary in termsof characters.
Like there's a character that'snon-binary.
There is a character who kind ofworks for like a UPS or like an
(15:34):
Amazon delivery service, sothey're very contemporary
feeling characters.
While in this kind of.
Classic trope of small Englishtown where everybody knows each
other's name.
And it's one of those placesyou'd probably love to go visit.
It's really, really, really fun.
And it's already been optioned.
That's gonna be a series that'sgonna start next year.
So, and it reads like you getthrough it and you're like,
(15:54):
okay, well clearly this is gonnabe made into something, so.
Mm-hmm.
Um.
Is there a book you guys want toget to this summer?
Like what is your hope?
Like if you had something thatyou were like, God, I really,
really have to prioritize this.
Bernie Lombardi (16:06):
So because like the summer, I feel like as I was
describing it earlier, is kindof like this buildup to the
Booker prize long list.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
I typically leading up to it,I'm like, oh, like, what about
all those past booker winnersthat I haven't read yet?
And, and so I start thinkingabout that and then I'll, I'll
throw a few on the list.
So, so these are.
(16:26):
So I picked up three.
I don't have to talk about them,but I'm just gonna show you
three talking.
The three former Booker winners,that I would like to get to.
So we've got The Sea, the Sea,the Sea by Iris Murdoch.
Brett Benner (16:39):
Mm-hmm.
Bernie Lombardi (16:40):
Um, the narrow road to the Deep North.
By Richard
Brett Benner (16:42):
Flanagan, and which is now is, do you know,
that's now a, uh, sidebar,that's a series, right?
Did you see on Amazon?
Yeah.
See, we saw the preview.
We saw the trailer.
Yeah, we
Bernie Lombardi (16:51):
saw the trailer.
So that's partially why I wannasee it.
And also because we're going toa literary festival while we're
in Copenhagen and he's gonna bethere, so, oh, wow.
Okay.
I wanna read this before that,and then the remains of the day,
um, because I just haven't readit yet.
I've read a bunch of Ishigurobooks, but not his most famous
one.
Brett Benner (17:10):
How about you, Chris?
Christopher Metts (17:11):
Mine are kind of into the idea of exploring
the ocean.
Through, a whale called MobyDick.
So I've put these three bookstogether that I'm super excited
to read.
I don't know what order I'mgonna read them in, but it is,
you know, Moby Dick by, HermanMelville.
Also this book, which just cameout in the uk.
(17:34):
I don't know when it comes outhere, but I think soon it's
called Call Me Ishmail.
By Z Lou Guo.
And it's the retelling of MobyDick from the female
perspective, and the maincharacter dresses as a boy to go
about the Moby Dick Adventure.
Brett Benner (17:51):
I literally thought you were gonna say it
from the point of view of Moby
Christopher Metts (17:55):
Moby, old Moby.
No.
Brett Benner (17:57):
Right.
I have to get him.
Yes, I must kill him.
Christopher Metts (18:01):
And then also Melville, by Rodrigo.
Reson, translated from Spanishby Will Vander Hayden.
And that's kind of the, animaginative biography of Herman
Melville, but it's also got somelike ghost story and magical
realism elements.
And I've seen a lot of people onbookstore love that one.
(18:22):
Recently and it just won theRepublic of Consciousness Prize
for the US and Canada.
Bernie Lombardi (18:27):
And I'll probably join him.
Yeah.
On that one.
I
Christopher Metts (18:29):
think Bernie liked the idea of this, this
dick adventure.
Bernie Lombardi (18:32):
Well, I mean, I'm the one who wanted this one
big dick adventure.
Big.
I wanted this one.
Christopher Metts (18:38):
I wanted.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So Melville, I wanted to call meIshmael, but then neither of us
had read Moby Dick, so, so wewere like, well, let's start
There.
Brett Benner (18:46):
The one that I really wanna read that's coming
out have you guys seen this newbiography of Baldwin called
Baldwin, A love story?
Bernie Lombardi (18:54):
Yes,
Christopher Metts (18:54):
I have not.
Bernie Lombardi (18:55):
Yes.
Brett Benner (18:56):
Oh my God, it looks so amazing.
First of all, they said it's thefirst major biography of Baldwin
in three decades, and it tellsfour overlapping stories about
his relationships, the men inhis life, which I didn't know
any of this one is.
The Black American painter beaufor Delaney, his lover and Muse,
(19:16):
the Swiss painter, Lucian HopHoppers Berger.
Mm-hmm.
His collaborators, the famedTurkish actor, gin Cesar, and
the e iconoclastic Frenchartist, Joran C.
So it, it just, it's like amonster of a book, much like
Moby Dick.
And, it's coming out in August.
I can't wait.
Bernie Lombardi (19:36):
Oh, I want that.
Yeah.
Who publish it?
Brett Benner (19:38):
FSG, but it looks beautiful.
And it's this guy, NicholasBoggs, who, who wrote it.
And, um, it just, how, basicallyhow all these relationships
intersected with his work andinfluenced his work so much.
Bernie Lombardi (19:50):
I love that.
I'm reading a Baldwin right now,so I'm excited.
Yeah.
Brett Benner (19:53):
Yeah,, Chris said that, what are you reading?
Bernie Lombardi (19:54):
Just above my head.
His novel, haven't read.
It's his final novel and it'shis big one.
It's like 600, a little lessthan 600 pages.
I read like most of his books,fiction nonfiction plays and
whatnot, like when I was in gradschool.
But of course I always neglectedhis, his really, really long
book.
But I just decided that I wasgonna do it and it's amazing.
(20:16):
Yeah, I have like a hundredpages left.
I love it.
Brett Benner (20:18):
And you guys may not have this, so that's fine.
Tell me if a summer book foryou, if there's anything that
goes outside your normal genresat all.
Christopher Metts (20:25):
I will always pick up Riley Sagers book that
it comes out in the summer andhe's writes thriller, like
suspense novels.
And that'll be my, like onethriller or suspense book for
the year.
Brett Benner (20:37):
I call'em Goosebumps for Adults.
Christopher Metts (20:38):
Yes, goosebumps for Adults.
That's a perfect explanation andI do love.
Love that book each summer.
And I actually do read thatduring the summer, so that's a
perfect one that isn't typicalfor my genre, but, but yeah,
that's true.
Yeah, I don't, I don't have, hehas a new one coming out this
summer.
He does, he does a new onecoming summer, like the same day
every summer.
Yeah,
Brett Benner (20:59):
I had one, I reviewed it today actually, and
it just so surprised me'cause Iused to read a lot of fantasy
and I don't.
Really anymore.
But I used to love it.
Like I loved, you know, I, Iread way back, like Beyond the
Game of Thrones, but all thoseRobert Jordan books, which are
the Wheel of Time stories, andthere's a series called the Red
Rising Series, um, that I lovedby Pierce Brown, but I was very
(21:21):
much not into like, not, not,not into this like modern
romantic thing, which peoplehaving sex with, like fairies or
dragons or something.
But, but I just, I just readthis book, which was so good,
and I.
I could not believe how much Iloved it and how smart it was.
It's called The Devils by JoeAbercrombie and I, I got sent
(21:42):
the audio of it and it's aboutthis, you know, in some whatever
land, this young street urchin,this woman who's found and she's
this supposed heir to the throneof this kingdom and, but
everyone is trying to kill herand so.
The Pope puts this creat thatsays she needs to be escorted to
(22:02):
the, throne.
So they bring together thisragtag group of monsters who are
going to take her there, andit's like a vampire, a werewolf,
an elf a priest who's, you know,clearly not a monster and a
saint, and then a necromancer.
It is so funny.
I mean, it is so funny.
Like it very much feels like inthe vein of like the boys that
(22:27):
Amazon show because they're allsuch characters and so well
drawn.
I dunno, I love that.
I couldn't believe I was sittingthere.
I'm like, I cannot believe I'mflipping out for this book like
I am.
And it's really been like one ofmy favorite books so far this
year.
Like I just, I love when ithappens.
Oh my God.
And so completely unexpected andso surprising and just so funny.
Christopher Metts (22:46):
So is the idea like a full cast?
Brett Benner (22:48):
It's not.
It's this one man and he'sBritish and he's older.
I looked him up and he does suchan incredible job with all of
these voices.
It, and it's, it's a massive,like, you know, it's a adventure
story and there's huge, it'slike Lord of the Rings.
It's, it's, it's really, really,really, really good.
Christopher Metts (23:07):
And it, it just came out, you said
Brett Benner (23:08):
it just came out, last Tuesday.
Yeah.
Is there a book you'd recommendfor summer that once you start
reading it you won't be able
Christopher Metts (23:15):
to stop?
I think we kind of both.
There's a claim author.
Bernie Lombardi (23:19):
Yeah.
So different
Christopher Metts (23:20):
book.
Bernie Lombardi (23:20):
Yeah.
So we, we.
Recently became kind of obsessedwith Sarah Waters.
Um, and I've read Night WatchChris read Finger Smith last
summer.
The, no, last winter.
Winter.
Like the end of the end of lastyear.
And, um, we, we both like, justlike couldn't stop reading them.
(23:40):
We, we obsessed.
We were obsessed.
We loved them.
Well,
Christopher Metts (23:43):
well actually I started reading Finger Smith
Yeah.
And became like obsessed and wasflying through it.
And I became obsessed with thepretty covers.
Bernie was very obsessed withthe idea of liking her because I
love the Pretty covers becausehe wanted all of her new
released editions in this artistwho did the covers.
Yes.
So then he got very jealous andthen picked up the night watch
(24:04):
while I was still reading TheFinger Smith.
Finger Smith.
Yes.
So
Bernie Lombardi (24:06):
we're swapping,
Christopher Metts (24:07):
or we're swapping now I'm gonna read the
Finger Smith and he's gonna
Brett Benner (24:09):
read the Night Watch.
Okay.
So tell me, is this I, because Ikind of am familiar, I haven't
read it yet with Finger Smith,but is this something ongoing
character?
Yes.
Or, or, or no?
No.
They're all self-containedbooks.
All, all, all
Christopher Metts (24:20):
individual.
Yeah.
Brett Benner (24:21):
Okay.
Christopher Metts (24:22):
Yeah.
Alright.
She always, she explores likehistorical fiction, which isn't
typically our genre.
It's
Bernie Lombardi (24:28):
a different vibe.
Christopher Metts (24:29):
It's a
Bernie Lombardi (24:29):
different vibe.
It's a d it's a different kindof historical fiction.
Christopher Metts (24:32):
It's very, um, sapphic It's very like,
yeah, very lesbian.
Yeah.
I have to read it.
Bernie Lombardi (24:37):
And supposedly Finger Smith was inspiration for
the Safe Keep, right?
Christopher Metts (24:40):
Yes.
Yeah.
Safe Keep was.
Oh really?
Yeah.
Yale, Vander Wooten had saidthat Finger Smith inspired her.
Bernie Lombardi (24:47):
Yeah, in ways to
Christopher Metts (24:47):
write, in ways to write the Safe Keep and
you can see it because Iactually read, which one did I
read first?
Safe Keep.
Safe Keep.
But as I was reading FingerSmith, I was like, oh my gosh, I
see it and I just read Safe Keepright before it.
And I was like, I can see whereshe got inspiration from.
Um, in so many ways.
Oh wow.
Um, they're very different booksstill, but you can see like the.
(25:10):
It sparks
Brett Benner (25:11):
the thread.
Yeah.
Yeah, I, well, I was obsessedwith the Save Keep too.
It was like one of my favoritebooks that year.
I just thought it was, so, yeah,it's so.
So surprised me and blew meaway, and I, I don't know, I
maybe I'm an idiot.
I never saw anything coming.
I was just like, wait,
Bernie Lombardi (25:27):
what?
Brett Benner (25:28):
I,
Bernie Lombardi (25:28):
I ly the Europeans all saw it.
Yeah.
European saw we, we overhear it.
Brett Benner (25:35):
Yeah, I was a clueless, um, yeah.
Clueless American.
Mm-hmm.
But I was just like, oh my God.
Amazing.
I read this book that's, it'scoming out again in June that I
love so much, and it is, so, itis this book that I couldn't put
down.
And it is, so do you rememberthose books where it's a, it's
a, it's a dual thing of like,can't put it down, but also
don't want it to end.
(25:56):
Mm-hmm.
And that's, that's for me withjust above my head.
Yeah.
Okay.
And I love when a book doesthat.
I love it when you're like, Idon't really, I, I don't really
want the stand.
I don't wanna get to the la Imean, I remember the first time
that happened to me, I think itwas a prayer for Rowan Meanie,
and I just was like, I don't, Idon't want to, I don't wanna
leave these characters yet.
But, um, it's this debut novelcalled The Slip, which is coming
(26:17):
out and the beginning of June byLucas Schafer.
And.
Oh my God, it is so good.
And it's being comped right nowto like Franzen and Nathan Hill.
It's about this 16-year-old, um,Jewish kid who gets into a fight
at school and his mom can't dealwith him, so she sends him to
(26:37):
her brother's house.
In Austin, Texas for the summer,and when he's there, his uncle
goes every day to a boxing gymto work out.
So the kid starts to go with himand meets one of the trainers
there, who's this Haitian manwho kind of takes him under his
wing?
But then the kid disappears andthe book starts 10 years later
(27:01):
and he's never been found.
And it's not a sign of foul playor anything like that.
But the book slowly then goesback in time and it begins to
piece together all the parts andall the people you've seen, most
of whom have come through thisgym.
And what happened?
(27:21):
It is great.
So good.
And it is such a great, like, I,I, first of all, I was so blown
away that it was a debut, but Ialso, uh, it's just so crazy
what he's playing with in termsof race and gender and there's
so many things he's touching onthat.
At first, when I got into it, Iwas like, oh my God, he's gonna
(27:42):
go there.
He's really going there.
But it all worked and it allmade sense and it all made sense
why he was doing what he'sdoing.
And, uh.
I don't know.
I, I couldn't put it down.
I was just, I finished it and Iwas like, holy shit.
I got to the end of it and I waslike, that was, I saw your, all
your tabs.
Is there a book that that makesyou think of Summer?
Bernie Lombardi (28:01):
Yeah, I wanted an opportunity to be super
basic.
Brett Benner (28:04):
Go be, be so basic.
For our listeners, he's holding,call me by Your name.
Aw, my names.
And you read that with a peachBellini.
Bernie Lombardi (28:13):
Yes, of course.
A creamy peach Bellini.
Yes.
Dream.
A
Christopher Metts (28:19):
dream.
A dream.
Evenings and weekends.
Brett Benner (28:23):
Evenings and weekends.
Oh my God, I loved that book somuch and I, I feel it got
overlooked.
I feel like so many peoplemissed out on it.
Bernie Lombardi (28:31):
Yeah, they really did.
I agree.
Christopher Metts (28:33):
And they can get it this summer because it
screams summer.
It's literally summer inEngland.
On the tames, there's a whalewashed up, four characters
running amok.
It's great.
We picked it up when we, webought it in London.
It had come out there prior tocoming out here, so we, we
picked it up while we werethere, um, in like November of
last year.
Brett Benner (28:54):
Yeah.
And I felt, it's funny, when Iread that book, I thought there
was a series there.
Like I felt that that could be alimited series.
Oh, totally.
And they could make it anongoing series called Evening
and Weekends, and every seasonwould be a different city.
Yeah.
You could do London the firstyear and you can move off to
someplace else.
You didn't have to keepfollowing it.
Oh yeah.
Christopher Metts (29:14):
It totally reads like that.
cause like it's so propulsiveand you just need to know, like,
I mean, originally you'refiguring out why they're all
connected and how, and thenyou're figuring out what their
dramas are and.
They have such like realizedcharacters in it.
It's, it's great.
Brett Benner (29:30):
I just have to ask this, Bernie, are you someone
who, like, when you go to themovies, are you someone who
wants a comedy or does it haveto be like, are you drama all
the way?
Bernie Lombardi (29:37):
No, I'm not like that with movies, I don't
think.
Christopher Metts (29:40):
No, but Bernie doesn't like comedy.
I.
No wait.
Really?
Like, you don't like, sorry?
You don't like comedian?
Bernie Lombardi (29:45):
Uh, yeah.
I like, I like comedic movies.
I just don't like, like standupcomedy.
Standup.
It's very specific.
Christopher Metts (29:50):
He said comedy,
Bernie Lombardi (29:50):
but I like funny things.
Yeah.
Christopher Metts (29:52):
He's got a sense of humor, but he doesn't
like, like I'm being funny inyour face.
Yeah.
He likes, no, I get
Bernie Lombardi (29:58):
it.
But wasn't the question
Brett Benner (30:03):
suddenly it gets very personal.
We're like, we're gonna justtake a break.
Well this has been great guys.
These are some great selectionsfor people to think about that
are not run of the mill.
They are not Emily Henry.
And again, not that there'sanything wrong with that.
Bernie Lombardi (30:16):
I may read Emily Henry this year.
Brett Benner (30:18):
I think you should do it.
I think you should do do it.
Christopher Metts (30:21):
That's gonna be on another 24 month loan.
Brett Benner (30:24):
Yeah.
It's still coming in.
Oh my God.
I'm gonna get like a cease anddesist from Emily Henry.
Probably like Stop talking.
Stop.
Exactly.
Stop.
Yeah, exactly.
Christopher Metts (30:34):
She'll be, she'll be more than fine.
Brett Benner (30:36):
So thank you guys.
This was awesome.
I really appreciate it.
And for all of our viewers,listeners, hopefully there'll be
something in here to inspire youby the pool, by the mountain, by
the beach, wherever you,wherever summer may take you
this year.
So thank you both.
Bernie Lombardi (30:52):
Thanks for having us.
Blast.
Brett Benner (30:55):
Thanks again to Bernie Lombardi and Christopher
Metts for joining me today, andI will link their Instagram
handles below so you candefinitely follow them.
And if you liked what you heardtoday on this episode and are
enjoying these, please do me afavor and like and subscribe.
Also, if you have the time, thegreatest thing and the most
(31:16):
helpful thing would be for youto leave a review.
I will be back next week withanother author interview.
Until then, have a great week,everybody.
Hey everybody.
It's Brett Benner and welcome orwelcome back to another episode
of Behind the Stack.
Before we get into today'sepisode, there are two books
coming out today that I wantedto mention.
The first is called Aftertasteby Daria, Lavelle, which says,
what if you could have one lastmeal with someone you've loved,
someone you've lost?
(00:21):
Combining the magic of Under theWhispering Door with the high
stakes culinary world of SweetBitter aftertaste is an epic
love story, a dark comedy, and asynthetic adventure through food
and grief, or as I like to say,it sounds like something between
the bear.
And ghost.
So that is out today.
The other book that I thinksounds particularly interesting
(00:42):
and is an author I really likeis Chris Pavone, his new book,
the Doorman, in this new novelOn the worst night in the
Greatest City on Earth, adoorman at the Tonys address in
town is drawn into a web ofintrigue, robbery, and murder.
But now onto today's episode,I'm really happy to be joined
again by my.
(01:03):
bookstagram Pals, BernieLombardi and Christopher Metts
to discuss some summer books andbooks that give a summer vibe.
So please enjoy this episode ofBehind the Stack.
Welcome everybody.
I, I am so excited to have backto the show.
(01:25):
Bernie Lombardi and ChristopherMetts, the darlings of Instagram
for anybody who's on Instagramand follows them, they are
beyond charming and with thereels, with their posts, they
have incredible tastes in whatthey read and such an eclectic
taste in what they read, whichis one of the reasons I wanted
to have them here today.
As we're about to gear up intothe summer months and summer
(01:46):
readings.
So I thought what better peopleto have on the show today to
talk about some choice reads forsummer?
So thank you guys so much forbeing here.
I'm so curious.
I know you follow all of thebook prizes, which takes up a
big part of your year.
Mm-hmm.
So do you find the summer monthsyou, you're reading changes in
the summer?
Christopher Metts (02:06):
A hundred percent.
This is like the downtimebetween prizes too.
So it's kind of where it's niceto have this space between the
prizes where we can dive backinto our back list, look at some
arcs that maybe didn't get,recognition just yet, and also
explore our favorite authors.
So it seems like an open-endedopportunity this summer on
(02:28):
multiple levels, reading andtraveling, and all the above.
Bernie Lombardi (02:32):
No, I mean the Booker prize long list
announcement is always at theend of July, so it's only half
the summer with two month I'mtalking about are June and No, I
know, but I would just, I wouldjust say when I think of the
summer, I think of the Bookerprize long list, and so I would
say the first half of the summeris kind of what Chris described
for me at least, is what Chrisdescribed as like kind of like
(02:54):
you're trying to like get to thestuff.
That you'll then be distractedfrom Yeah.
During the second half of thesummer when we're reading the
Booker prize long list.
Yeah.
And, and, and you're also likekind of in the back of your head
trying to guess like what'sgonna be on the Booker long list
and trying not right to, tryingnot to read those things because
then.
(03:15):
'cause there's people who dothat and then they just like
disappoint themselves when thosebooks don't get long listed.
But yeah.
Brett Benner (03:20):
But isn't it also the greatest thing when the
Booker prize list or any ofthese prize lists are announced
and you've already read likethree or four of them?
Yes.
Yeah.
It is
Christopher Metts (03:29):
the best
Brett Benner (03:30):
game.
Bernie Lombardi (03:33):
Uh, the, the National Book Award, when that
was announced in September.
Last year I had read half thelist and that was like amazing.
That's, that's the only timeanything like that has ever
happened, but I know, and thenyou
Brett Benner (03:44):
can coast, I don't know that there's many people
who approach the internationalbooker and like, oh, I already
read all of these.
Yeah.
Or like half of them, or eventwo of them.
Yeah.
So
Christopher Metts (03:54):
two is like big win.
Brett Benner (03:55):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Completely.
Do you fine with the readingthat you do over the summer?
I mean before, so we'll say likelaunch off is Memorial Day
weekend for you guys.
Yeah, exactly.
But does it change tonally?
Is it lighter stuff?
Is it stuff that you can breezethrough or is it, does it
matter?
Is your reading?
Your reading?
Bernie Lombardi (04:13):
I would say no for me.
I don't know what you think.
Christopher Metts (04:15):
Yeah.
I feel like Bernie's reading ispretty stable.
Throughout.
It's mostly depressing, so he'lljust be depressed more in the
summer.
I think I tend to go a littlelighter in the summer.
Something that is maybe a littlemore, um, page turny, but I
don't think I consciously dothat.
But I think that maybe I justtend to move towards the ones
(04:38):
that are, are gonna give me thateasy comfort on travels or on a
plane or something that doesn'ttake too much time to like dig
into.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
But Bernie is the same always.
Brett Benner (04:53):
And Bernie is consistently, he's consistently,
Bernie Lombardi (04:58):
I do, I do like a good like summer vibe, like,
like a summer, like a hot, aatmosphere, like a hot
Mediterranean, Europeanatmosphere.
Though I do feel like I, I,I'll, I'll read those like when
it's not summer to like, make methink of summer.
Brett Benner (05:12):
But this sounds like the, the, this is the
academic in you coming out.
You know, completely.
You know, so just, uh, yeah, Idon't listen.
I, there's, I don't know why,but lately I keep bagging on her
and I don't mean to bag on her.
'cause I've, I, I actually haveread one and enjoyed it.
But I was gonna say, I don'tpicture you reading like the
latest Emily Henry.
That's what I was gonna say.
Bernie Lombardi (05:32):
No, but actually I'm, I'm supposed to,
I'm supposed to read one,supposed to this summer.
This summer.
Oh really?
I'm supposed to read her in thesummer if I'm gonna read her.
Yeah.
Christopher Metts (05:41):
I think he, honestly though, I think he said
that last summer.
I, and I didn't, I think he saidthis last summer and we put a
hold on the Libby book so youcan listen to it on audio.
And it's been,
Bernie Lombardi (05:49):
it's
Christopher Metts (05:50):
still like popped up and then
Bernie Lombardi (05:51):
we, and then I push it forward.
We keep pushing it back.
It's still there.
Brett Benner (05:55):
You're like, come back in 21 days when I'm ready
for it.
Give it to the next person.
You know, I've done that too.
Okay, so.
Just for our viewers, ourlisteners, I told these guys
that, it doesn't matter to mewhat their books are in terms of
its front list or if it's backlist.
I'm more just interested in sometitles that they're interested
in, that they're gonna maybe getto this summer and that might
peak or that they've alreadygotten to and feel they're great
(06:18):
recommendations for somebody toread this summer.
So, who wants to go first?
Chris,
Christopher Metts (06:25):
what's the first question?
Brett Benner (06:26):
Give me a book that you would recommend for the
this start Easy book.
A book you'd recommend for thesummer.
Christopher Metts (06:32):
A book I'd recommend for the summer, which
it's kind of spring vibes, butOkay.
I read it in the summer and Ithink that's why I associate it
with the summer, but it would beTom Lake by in Patchett.
I read this in Mexico, in thepool.
And so that's why I think fondlyof it for the summer vibes, but
it also kind of gives you thatsummer taste.
(06:52):
You know, it's there by a lakeon this, like camp where
they're, you know, putting on a,on the play Our Town.
And it's reflective with goingback in time to the mom telling
her kids this story and thengoing into the story.
By the lake.
It's very nostalgic, which Ialso think is very summer.
'cause a lot of times when Ithink of the summer, I think of
(07:13):
nostalgia.
'cause I think of all like thefun times you have with your
friends or with, when you go oncamp or you know, go on vacation
with your family.
And I feel like that this bookgives all of that.
So that's why I, I think it's agood
Brett Benner (07:26):
Now did you read it or did you listen to it?
I
Christopher Metts (07:28):
read it.
I did the physical read.
Brett Benner (07:31):
Yeah, I read it too.
And then I wished no.
I read it too, and then halfwaythrough.
I got the audio because MerylStreep did the audio.
Christopher Metts (07:40):
That's what I heard.
Brett Benner (07:42):
Interestingly, I saw Anne Patchett at this event
here in Los Angeles talkingabout the book and she told the
story of how she got MerylStreep to do it, which, it was
some kind of connection between,um, Emily Blunt, who she'd done
the Devil Wars prato with.
Mm-hmm.
Her sister is married to StanleyTucci and she is a, a book
(08:04):
agent.
Mm-hmm.
And so,.
I think Stanley got her somehowconnected with the number and
they said just email her.
And and you know, true like AnnePatchett story, she was like, do
you want to know how I got MerylStreep to read the book?
And the audience was like, yes.
And she's like, I asked MerylStreep to read my book and.
(08:25):
And so she just emailed her andshe said, I would love for you
to read this.
And it's about a mo, a mom who'san actress and a summer stock
and blah, blah, blah.
And Meryl Streep wrote back andsaid, I'd love to do it.
And she said, do you wanna, doyou wanna read it first?
And she's like, no, I've readyour other stuff.
I trust you.
It's fine.
So I was like, that's soamazing.
Right?
Christopher Metts (08:41):
Yeah.
Did you, you listened to itthough?
Bernie Lombardi (08:43):
No, I haven't.
I haven't read it yet.
You haven't read it?
Brett Benner (08:45):
I loved it.
And I agree with you.
It is like quintessential, likesummer stock, that whole vibes
of.
All of it.
And like picking cherries andthe whole thing.
Oh yeah, the cherries for sure.
Christopher Metts (08:58):
Yeah.
You love cherries.
That's your favorite pie.
I do
Bernie Lombardi (09:00):
love cherries.
Christopher Metts (09:01):
Yeah, there's cherries in it.
We'll definitely go do kindafun.
Brett Benner (09:04):
What about you Bern
Bernie Lombardi (09:05):
Okay.
I have two for this one.
One's a, one's a funny one, andone's, they're
Christopher Metts (09:09):
both depressing.
Bernie Lombardi (09:10):
No, they're not.
You
Christopher Metts (09:12):
read this?
I mean, I thought it was
Bernie Lombardi (09:13):
No, what's not?
Okay.
Christopher Metts (09:15):
Anyway, one is,
Bernie Lombardi (09:16):
Okay.
So the first one is a funny onebecause it's a book that I read
on a beach vacation and itignited an obsession for me.
So like, I just imagine mereading this on the, on the, the
beach, just like Obsessed theRoad by Corman McCarthy.
And those just I what?
Write it on vacation.
(09:37):
This spark my, my obsession,
Brett Benner (09:40):
Christopher.
Now I understand.
Bernie Lombardi (09:43):
I recommend that I, I'm not lying.
We flew back to New York.
We were on the subway oh, off ofour flight, and that's where I
finished it and I was likesobbing,
Christopher Metts (09:54):
crying on the, on the subway.
Bernie Lombardi (09:55):
So I wasn't crying on the beach, but I cried
after.
And then a better, a betterchoice would be hot milk by
Deborah Levy.
It was a finalist for the bookerin like, I don't know, like 10
years ago, 15 years ago, some,somewhere around there.
And it has like hotMediterranean summer.
Vacation vibes, like, you know,that, that they're from England.
(10:19):
I think I actually, it's been solong that I've read this that I
don't remember exactly.
And her book Swimming Home alsohas the same like hot
Mediterranean summer vacationkind of vibes.
But this is about a, a, a motherand daughter.
Um, and it's really good and Irecommend it.
And so this is, gives you smart,you know, good writing, but also
(10:40):
like, we'll transport you to thebeach.
Brett Benner (10:43):
In Europe, the Mediterranean.
My God, I love that.
Yeah.
What about a book thattransports you to somewhere
else?
Bernie Lombardi (10:50):
So I'm gonna say, and this is one that I've
read this year, and actually Iwould pair this with, you'll see
with the second one, which Idon't have with me right now, is
on the calculation of volume,one and two, they're both
transportive.
Two is actually very, like,literally about like moving
around.
Um,
Brett Benner (11:08):
mm-hmm.
Bernie Lombardi (11:09):
I, I Have you read these yet?
Brett Benner (11:10):
I read the first.
Bernie Lombardi (11:11):
So, for those who don't know, this is about,
this woman who is stuck on in asingle day.
So every time she wakes up, it'sNovember 18.
And so the second book, in thesecond book, she decides that
she's kind of like over a.
I dunno, over kind of likehoping that things will change
and now decides to kind of likebe proactive and she decides to
(11:32):
chase the seasons and so she,she'll, you know, she, so she,
she wants winter, so she, shetravels to, to the north of
Norway and then she wants, youknow, summer, so she goes to the
south of France and so she, soshe's, she's literally
transporting herself in the sameday but ar around Europe in
order to kind of like experiencedifferent still.
Brett Benner (11:54):
Okay, now I can't wait to start it.
'cause when I finished the firstone, my one thing is, how the
hell is she doing this for?
Like, right.
Are we really doing literaryGroundhog Day for seven volumes?
Like I was like, how many, howmany times did she wake up and
be like, all right, he's stillthere.
Whatever.
So, no, this,
Bernie Lombardi (12:12):
the husband actually only like is mentioned
like in like the beginning, onceor twice.
Yeah.
He's not, he's not even like,he's not really in it.
Not really in it.
Wow.
He became a CoStar,
Brett Benner (12:20):
like in Book CoStar gift
Christopher Metts (12:22):
that.
Like maybe guest appearance.
Brett Benner (12:24):
Yeah, right.
Also, yes.
Special appearance.
Buy or, you know, yes.
Yeah.
And credit.
So, and for sure maybe with, andonly had one day work.
Christopher Metts (12:34):
Mine is kind of the opposite of what you
would typically want from thesummer, but it's kind of more in
the vein of what Bernie saidwhere he flips between the
opposite season.
So he is like in the season thathe.
Is thinking about maybe adifferent season.
So in the winter, he is thinkingabout summer, but this is kind
of the opposite.
So this one definitely willtransport you, but to a very
cold place.
It's called Tology.
(12:55):
Mm-hmm.
So it's a three book.
This is the compilation of thethree books in the series.
The other name I is another anda new name, and it's by Jan
Fosse.
It's translated from Norwegian,and he's in this very, very
wintry cold town, but it justfollows his, his day-to-day
life.
It's actually kind of similar toon a calculation of volume and
(13:18):
that it's, varied.
It doesn't expand.
It's just, him kind of seeking.
Something, and you don'tnecessarily know what it is, but
he's exploring art, he'sexploring his relationship with
his neighbor, with maybe adoppelganger.
And he's also reflecting on hismemories of from childhood in
this same little town nearChristmas.
(13:39):
And it's, it's quite lovely andit's very soft, but it's
actually kind of propulsive.
So you flip right through it andyou wanna know what what's
happening, but you also arelike, feel the cold and you feel
the place and the time and.
It's magical, but it definitelydoesn't give you summer vibes,
but it it'll, it'll definitelytransport you.
Mm-hmm.
Brett Benner (13:58):
Yeah, I have that on my.
You know, that bookstagram thingthat some people do, which is
like 12 books recommended by 12friends.
Mm-hmm.
And that's on my list this yearto read.
Which of course I've, I don'tthink I've read one of the books
yet, so I'm, I'm already failingmiserably.
And, we're almost half and we'realmost halfway through the year.
I just have to prioritize.
(14:19):
I have to go more backlist.
I really have to go morebacklist.
Christopher Metts (14:22):
That one's admissible.
If you break it down into threebook.
In the three books.
'cause they're not too long asindividual books.
Brett Benner (14:29):
This one, this is coming out in June.
And I loved this because it is.
Totally small little Englishtown.
It's actually a mystery.
It's called Death at the WhiteHeart by Chris Chibnall.
Chris Chibnall created the show,broad Church.
I don't know if you guys everwatched that, heard of that with
Olivia Coleman.
And also a very young JonathanBailey.
(14:50):
And, um, but this takes place inthis very small town where
everyone knows each other and, abrand new young cop is driving
through the town one night andhe sees something on the road,
which he thinks is a deer, andas he gets closer, he realizes
it's, it's a man who's naked andtied to a chair with antlers
(15:11):
planted on his head.
And so the whole thing becomesin this very small town, who
these people are, but it, it, italmost feels like an Agatha
Christie novel, but.
It's very contemporary in termsof characters.
Like there's a character that'snon-binary.
There is a character who kind ofworks for like a UPS or like an
(15:34):
Amazon delivery service, sothey're very contemporary
feeling characters.
While in this kind of.
Classic trope of small Englishtown where everybody knows each
other's name.
And it's one of those placesyou'd probably love to go visit.
It's really, really, really fun.
And it's already been optioned.
That's gonna be a series that'sgonna start next year.
So, and it reads like you getthrough it and you're like,
(15:54):
okay, well clearly this is gonnabe made into something, so.
Mm-hmm.
Um.
Is there a book you guys want toget to this summer?
Like what is your hope?
Like if you had something thatyou were like, God, I really,
really have to prioritize this.
Bernie Lombardi (16:06):
So because like the summer, I feel like as I was
describing it earlier, is kindof like this buildup to the
Booker prize long list.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
I typically leading up to it,I'm like, oh, like, what about
all those past booker winnersthat I haven't read yet?
And, and so I start thinkingabout that and then I'll, I'll
throw a few on the list.
So, so these are.
(16:26):
So I picked up three.
I don't have to talk about them,but I'm just gonna show you
three talking.
The three former Booker winners,that I would like to get to.
So we've got The Sea, the Sea,the Sea by Iris Murdoch.
Brett Benner (16:39):
Mm-hmm.
Bernie Lombardi (16:40):
Um, the narrow road to the Deep North.
By Richard
Brett Benner (16:42):
Flanagan, and which is now is, do you know,
that's now a, uh, sidebar,that's a series, right?
Did you see on Amazon?
Yeah.
See, we saw the preview.
We saw the trailer.
Yeah, we
Bernie Lombardi (16:51):
saw the trailer.
So that's partially why I wannasee it.
And also because we're going toa literary festival while we're
in Copenhagen and he's gonna bethere, so, oh, wow.
Okay.
I wanna read this before that,and then the remains of the day,
um, because I just haven't readit yet.
I've read a bunch of Ishigurobooks, but not his most famous
one.
Brett Benner (17:10):
How about you, Chris?
Christopher Metts (17:11):
Mine are kind of into the idea of exploring
the ocean.
Through, a whale called MobyDick.
So I've put these three bookstogether that I'm super excited
to read.
I don't know what order I'mgonna read them in, but it is,
you know, Moby Dick by, HermanMelville.
Also this book, which just cameout in the uk.
(17:34):
I don't know when it comes outhere, but I think soon it's
called Call Me Ishmail.
By Z Lou Guo.
And it's the retelling of MobyDick from the female
perspective, and the maincharacter dresses as a boy to go
about the Moby Dick Adventure.
Brett Benner (17:51):
I literally thought you were gonna say it
from the point of view of Moby
Christopher Metts (17:55):
Moby, old Moby.
No.
Brett Benner (17:57):
Right.
I have to get him.
Yes, I must kill him.
Christopher Metts (18:01):
And then also Melville, by Rodrigo.
Reson, translated from Spanishby Will Vander Hayden.
And that's kind of the, animaginative biography of Herman
Melville, but it's also got somelike ghost story and magical
realism elements.
And I've seen a lot of people onbookstore love that one.
(18:22):
Recently and it just won theRepublic of Consciousness Prize
for the US and Canada.
Bernie Lombardi (18:27):
And I'll probably join him.
Yeah.
On that one.
I
Christopher Metts (18:29):
think Bernie liked the idea of this, this
dick adventure.
Bernie Lombardi (18:32):
Well, I mean, I'm the one who wanted this one
big dick adventure.
Big.
I wanted this one.
Christopher Metts (18:38):
I wanted.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So Melville, I wanted to call meIshmael, but then neither of us
had read Moby Dick, so, so wewere like, well, let's start
There.
Brett Benner (18:46):
The one that I really wanna read that's coming
out have you guys seen this newbiography of Baldwin called
Baldwin, A love story?
Bernie Lombardi (18:54):
Yes,
Christopher Metts (18:54):
I have not.
Bernie Lombardi (18:55):
Yes.
Brett Benner (18:56):
Oh my God, it looks so amazing.
First of all, they said it's thefirst major biography of Baldwin
in three decades, and it tellsfour overlapping stories about
his relationships, the men inhis life, which I didn't know
any of this one is.
The Black American painter beaufor Delaney, his lover and Muse,
(19:16):
the Swiss painter, Lucian HopHoppers Berger.
Mm-hmm.
His collaborators, the famedTurkish actor, gin Cesar, and
the e iconoclastic Frenchartist, Joran C.
So it, it just, it's like amonster of a book, much like
Moby Dick.
And, it's coming out in August.
I can't wait.
Bernie Lombardi (19:36):
Oh, I want that.
Yeah.
Who publish it?
Brett Benner (19:38):
FSG, but it looks beautiful.
And it's this guy, NicholasBoggs, who, who wrote it.
And, um, it just, how, basicallyhow all these relationships
intersected with his work andinfluenced his work so much.
Bernie Lombardi (19:50):
I love that.
I'm reading a Baldwin right now,so I'm excited.
Yeah.
Brett Benner (19:53):
Yeah,, Chris said that, what are you reading?
Bernie Lombardi (19:54):
Just above my head.
His novel, haven't read.
It's his final novel and it'shis big one.
It's like 600, a little lessthan 600 pages.
I read like most of his books,fiction nonfiction plays and
whatnot, like when I was in gradschool.
But of course I always neglectedhis, his really, really long
book.
But I just decided that I wasgonna do it and it's amazing.
(20:16):
Yeah, I have like a hundredpages left.
I love it.
Brett Benner (20:18):
And you guys may not have this, so that's fine.
Tell me if a summer book foryou, if there's anything that
goes outside your normal genresat all.
Christopher Metts (20:25):
I will always pick up Riley Sagers book that
it comes out in the summer andhe's writes thriller, like
suspense novels.
And that'll be my, like onethriller or suspense book for
the year.
Brett Benner (20:37):
I call'em Goosebumps for Adults.
Christopher Metts (20:38):
Yes, goosebumps for Adults.
That's a perfect explanation andI do love.
Love that book each summer.
And I actually do read thatduring the summer, so that's a
perfect one that isn't typicalfor my genre, but, but yeah,
that's true.
Yeah, I don't, I don't have, hehas a new one coming out this
summer.
He does, he does a new onecoming summer, like the same day
every summer.
Yeah,
Brett Benner (20:59):
I had one, I reviewed it today actually, and
it just so surprised me'cause Iused to read a lot of fantasy
and I don't.
Really anymore.
But I used to love it.
Like I loved, you know, I, Iread way back, like Beyond the
Game of Thrones, but all thoseRobert Jordan books, which are
the Wheel of Time stories, andthere's a series called the Red
Rising Series, um, that I lovedby Pierce Brown, but I was very
(21:21):
much not into like, not, not,not into this like modern
romantic thing, which peoplehaving sex with, like fairies or
dragons or something.
But, but I just, I just readthis book, which was so good,
and I.
I could not believe how much Iloved it and how smart it was.
It's called The Devils by JoeAbercrombie and I, I got sent
(21:42):
the audio of it and it's aboutthis, you know, in some whatever
land, this young street urchin,this woman who's found and she's
this supposed heir to the throneof this kingdom and, but
everyone is trying to kill herand so.
The Pope puts this creat thatsays she needs to be escorted to
(22:02):
the, throne.
So they bring together thisragtag group of monsters who are
going to take her there, andit's like a vampire, a werewolf,
an elf a priest who's, you know,clearly not a monster and a
saint, and then a necromancer.
It is so funny.
I mean, it is so funny.
Like it very much feels like inthe vein of like the boys that
(22:27):
Amazon show because they're allsuch characters and so well
drawn.
I dunno, I love that.
I couldn't believe I was sittingthere.
I'm like, I cannot believe I'mflipping out for this book like
I am.
And it's really been like one ofmy favorite books so far this
year.
Like I just, I love when ithappens.
Oh my God.
And so completely unexpected andso surprising and just so funny.
Christopher Metts (22:46):
So is the idea like a full cast?
Brett Benner (22:48):
It's not.
It's this one man and he'sBritish and he's older.
I looked him up and he does suchan incredible job with all of
these voices.
It, and it's, it's a massive,like, you know, it's a adventure
story and there's huge, it'slike Lord of the Rings.
It's, it's, it's really, really,really, really good.
Christopher Metts (23:07):
And it, it just came out, you said
Brett Benner (23:08):
it just came out, last Tuesday.
Yeah.
Is there a book you'd recommendfor summer that once you start
reading it you won't be able
Christopher Metts (23:15):
to stop?
I think we kind of both.
There's a claim author.
Bernie Lombardi (23:19):
Yeah.
So different
Christopher Metts (23:20):
book.
Bernie Lombardi (23:20):
Yeah.
So we, we.
Recently became kind of obsessedwith Sarah Waters.
Um, and I've read Night WatchChris read Finger Smith last
summer.
The, no, last winter.
Winter.
Like the end of the end of lastyear.
And, um, we, we both like, justlike couldn't stop reading them.
(23:40):
We, we obsessed.
We were obsessed.
We loved them.
Well,
Christopher Metts (23:43):
well actually I started reading Finger Smith
Yeah.
And became like obsessed and wasflying through it.
And I became obsessed with thepretty covers.
Bernie was very obsessed withthe idea of liking her because I
love the Pretty covers becausehe wanted all of her new
released editions in this artistwho did the covers.
Yes.
So then he got very jealous andthen picked up the night watch
(24:04):
while I was still reading TheFinger Smith.
Finger Smith.
Yes.
So
Bernie Lombardi (24:06):
we're swapping,
Christopher Metts (24:07):
or we're swapping now I'm gonna read the
Finger Smith and he's gonna
Brett Benner (24:09):
read the Night Watch.
Okay.
So tell me, is this I, because Ikind of am familiar, I haven't
read it yet with Finger Smith,but is this something ongoing
character?
Yes.
Or, or, or no?
No.
They're all self-containedbooks.
All, all, all
Christopher Metts (24:20):
individual.
Yeah.
Brett Benner (24:21):
Okay.
Christopher Metts (24:22):
Yeah.
Alright.
She always, she explores likehistorical fiction, which isn't
typically our genre.
It's
Bernie Lombardi (24:28):
a different vibe.
Christopher Metts (24:29):
It's a
Bernie Lombardi (24:29):
different vibe.
It's a d it's a different kindof historical fiction.
Christopher Metts (24:32):
It's very, um, sapphic It's very like,
yeah, very lesbian.
Yeah.
I have to read it.
Bernie Lombardi (24:37):
And supposedly Finger Smith was inspiration for
the Safe Keep, right?
Christopher Metts (24:40):
Yes.
Yeah.
Safe Keep was.
Oh really?
Yeah.
Yale, Vander Wooten had saidthat Finger Smith inspired her.
Bernie Lombardi (24:47):
Yeah, in ways to
Christopher Metts (24:47):
write, in ways to write the Safe Keep and
you can see it because Iactually read, which one did I
read first?
Safe Keep.
Safe Keep.
But as I was reading FingerSmith, I was like, oh my gosh, I
see it and I just read Safe Keepright before it.
And I was like, I can see whereshe got inspiration from.
Um, in so many ways.
Oh wow.
Um, they're very different booksstill, but you can see like the.
(25:10):
It sparks
Brett Benner (25:11):
the thread.
Yeah.
Yeah, I, well, I was obsessedwith the Save Keep too.
It was like one of my favoritebooks that year.
I just thought it was, so, yeah,it's so.
So surprised me and blew meaway, and I, I don't know, I
maybe I'm an idiot.
I never saw anything coming.
I was just like, wait,
Bernie Lombardi (25:27):
what?
Brett Benner (25:28):
I,
Bernie Lombardi (25:28):
I ly the Europeans all saw it.
Yeah.
European saw we, we overhear it.
Brett Benner (25:35):
Yeah, I was a clueless, um, yeah.
Clueless American.
Mm-hmm.
But I was just like, oh my God.
Amazing.
I read this book that's, it'scoming out again in June that I
love so much, and it is, so, itis this book that I couldn't put
down.
And it is, so do you rememberthose books where it's a, it's
a, it's a dual thing of like,can't put it down, but also
don't want it to end.
(25:56):
Mm-hmm.
And that's, that's for me withjust above my head.
Yeah.
Okay.
And I love when a book doesthat.
I love it when you're like, Idon't really, I, I don't really
want the stand.
I don't wanna get to the la Imean, I remember the first time
that happened to me, I think itwas a prayer for Rowan Meanie,
and I just was like, I don't, Idon't want to, I don't wanna
leave these characters yet.
But, um, it's this debut novelcalled The Slip, which is coming
(26:17):
out and the beginning of June byLucas Schafer.
And.
Oh my God, it is so good.
And it's being comped right nowto like Franzen and Nathan Hill.
It's about this 16-year-old, um,Jewish kid who gets into a fight
at school and his mom can't dealwith him, so she sends him to
(26:37):
her brother's house.
In Austin, Texas for the summer,and when he's there, his uncle
goes every day to a boxing gymto work out.
So the kid starts to go with himand meets one of the trainers
there, who's this Haitian manwho kind of takes him under his
wing?
But then the kid disappears andthe book starts 10 years later
(27:01):
and he's never been found.
And it's not a sign of foul playor anything like that.
But the book slowly then goesback in time and it begins to
piece together all the parts andall the people you've seen, most
of whom have come through thisgym.
And what happened?
(27:21):
It is great.
So good.
And it is such a great, like, I,I, first of all, I was so blown
away that it was a debut, but Ialso, uh, it's just so crazy
what he's playing with in termsof race and gender and there's
so many things he's touching onthat.
At first, when I got into it, Iwas like, oh my God, he's gonna
(27:42):
go there.
He's really going there.
But it all worked and it allmade sense and it all made sense
why he was doing what he'sdoing.
And, uh.
I don't know.
I, I couldn't put it down.
I was just, I finished it and Iwas like, holy shit.
I got to the end of it and I waslike, that was, I saw your, all
your tabs.
Is there a book that that makesyou think of Summer?
Bernie Lombardi (28:01):
Yeah, I wanted an opportunity to be super
basic.
Brett Benner (28:04):
Go be, be so basic.
For our listeners, he's holding,call me by Your name.
Aw, my names.
And you read that with a peachBellini.
Bernie Lombardi (28:13):
Yes, of course.
A creamy peach Bellini.
Yes.
Dream.
A
Christopher Metts (28:19):
dream.
A dream.
Evenings and weekends.
Brett Benner (28:23):
Evenings and weekends.
Oh my God, I loved that book somuch and I, I feel it got
overlooked.
I feel like so many peoplemissed out on it.
Bernie Lombardi (28:31):
Yeah, they really did.
I agree.
Christopher Metts (28:33):
And they can get it this summer because it
screams summer.
It's literally summer inEngland.
On the tames, there's a whalewashed up, four characters
running amok.
It's great.
We picked it up when we, webought it in London.
It had come out there prior tocoming out here, so we, we
picked it up while we werethere, um, in like November of
last year.
Brett Benner (28:54):
Yeah.
And I felt, it's funny, when Iread that book, I thought there
was a series there.
Like I felt that that could be alimited series.
Oh, totally.
And they could make it anongoing series called Evening
and Weekends, and every seasonwould be a different city.
Yeah.
You could do London the firstyear and you can move off to
someplace else.
You didn't have to keepfollowing it.
Oh yeah.
Christopher Metts (29:14):
It totally reads like that.
cause like it's so propulsiveand you just need to know, like,
I mean, originally you'refiguring out why they're all
connected and how, and thenyou're figuring out what their
dramas are and.
They have such like realizedcharacters in it.
It's, it's great.
Brett Benner (29:30):
I just have to ask this, Bernie, are you someone
who, like, when you go to themovies, are you someone who
wants a comedy or does it haveto be like, are you drama all
the way?
Bernie Lombardi (29:37):
No, I'm not like that with movies, I don't
think.
Christopher Metts (29:40):
No, but Bernie doesn't like comedy.
I.
No wait.
Really?
Like, you don't like, sorry?
You don't like comedian?
Bernie Lombardi (29:45):
Uh, yeah.
I like, I like comedic movies.
I just don't like, like standupcomedy.
Standup.
It's very specific.
Christopher Metts (29:50):
He said comedy,
Bernie Lombardi (29:50):
but I like funny things.
Yeah.
Christopher Metts (29:52):
He's got a sense of humor, but he doesn't
like, like I'm being funny inyour face.
Yeah.
He likes, no, I get
Bernie Lombardi (29:58):
it.
But wasn't the question
Brett Benner (30:03):
suddenly it gets very personal.
We're like, we're gonna justtake a break.
Well this has been great guys.
These are some great selectionsfor people to think about that
are not run of the mill.
They are not Emily Henry.
And again, not that there'sanything wrong with that.
Bernie Lombardi (30:16):
I may read Emily Henry this year.
Brett Benner (30:18):
I think you should do it.
I think you should do do it.
Christopher Metts (30:21):
That's gonna be on another 24 month loan.
Brett Benner (30:24):
Yeah.
It's still coming in.
Oh my God.
I'm gonna get like a cease anddesist from Emily Henry.
Probably like Stop talking.
Stop.
Exactly.
Stop.
Yeah, exactly.
Christopher Metts (30:34):
She'll be, she'll be more than fine.
Brett Benner (30:36):
So thank you guys.
This was awesome.
I really appreciate it.
And for all of our viewers,listeners, hopefully there'll be
something in here to inspire youby the pool, by the mountain, by
the beach, wherever you,wherever summer may take you
this year.
So thank you both.
Bernie Lombardi (30:52):
Thanks for having us.
Blast.
Brett Benner (30:55):
Thanks again to Bernie Lombardi and Christopher
Metts for joining me today, andI will link their Instagram
handles below so you candefinitely follow them.
And if you liked what you heardtoday on this episode and are
enjoying these, please do me afavor and like and subscribe.
Also, if you have the time, thegreatest thing and the most
(31:16):
helpful thing would be for youto leave a review.
I will be back next week withanother author interview.
Until then, have a great week,everybody.
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