April 29, 2025 • 44 mins
In this episode Brett sits down with Virginia Evans to talk about her new book, "The Correspondent". They discuss a trip that changed her life, the gift of correspondence, and the absolute perfect actress to play Sybil.
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https://www.instagram.com/virginia.l.evans/
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https://www.virginiaevansauthor.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Brett Benner (00:00):
Hey Everybody, it's Brett Benner and welcome or
welcome back to another episodeof Behind the Stack.
I hope you all had a great week.
It was a busy lit week here inLos Angeles with the LA Times
Book Festival.
A lot of authors descending.
I got to, see Jiamin and AndyTang who wrote the fantastic
(00:21):
book Cinema Love, which ended upwinning the LA Times book
festival award for best debutnovel.
So I was thrilled for him andgot to see him briefly, so that
was really nice.
I also got invited to an eventfor VE Schwab for her new book,
bury our Bones in the MidnightSoil, which is coming out in
June about a trio of femalevampires.
(00:43):
It looks so good and she isjust.
So fun and delightful.
So that was cool.
A big book week on releases thisweek.
A few of them I wanted to talkabout with all of you.
The first is.
Leanne Zangs, Julie Chan isDead, which is a debut thriller
for fans of Bunny and YellowFace about a young woman who
(01:06):
steps into her deceased twinsinfluencer life only to discover
dark secrets hidden behind hersocial media facade.
I think that one sounds.
Really great.
And then also, um, Chuck Wendigwho's, you know, thriller horror
writer, his new book, AStaircase in the Woods, about a
group of friends investigatingthe mystery of a strange
staircase in the woods.
(01:28):
In this new mesmerizing horrornovel from the New York Times
bestselling author of The Bookof Accidents.
The last book that I wanted totalk about before we get in
today's is called the LilacPeople by Milo.
Todd, which is a.
A really fantastic book,historical novel, set in World
(01:50):
War II around Hitler's rise.
Milo Todd will be.
On the podcast later this week,so look for that.
We had a great conversation, soreally enjoyed it.
Which brings me to my last newrelease, which is also our guest
for this week.
The book is the correspondent,the author is Virginia Evans.
(02:12):
Oh my gosh.
I, I love this novel and I'mgonna let you hear the
conversation to, to, to see howit very rapidly came on my radar
and how this conversation todayhappened so quickly.
But Virginia's fantastic.
The book is so good.
So without giving anything elseaway, please enjoy this episode
of Behind the Stack.
(02:38):
I'm thrilled to be sitting downwith Virginia Evans today, whose
beautiful new book, theCorrespondent, I was saying to
her before we started, I got acopy of this and last week read
it.
Well, I got to the weekend andit was, it was I think Friday
night and I was down to like thelast 50 pages and I came into
(03:00):
the bedroom and my husband'slike, what's wrong with you?
And I was like, I'm reading thisbook.
And I just like, like.
It's a, it just is really liketouching me and moving me.
And he was like, okay, so cut tonext day.
I'm reading the rest of the bookin my office, like audibly
sobbing, like audibly, likedoing like that, like when you
kind of can't get your breath.
And so I finished and he was inhis office next door.
He's like.
(03:20):
What is the matter with you?
And I was like, it, it's like,is it that book?
That's still that book?
And I was like, it's still thebook.
And it, it's really, so anyway,I, I reached out to you
immediately, as you know, andI'm letting everyone know
because I was like, I have totalk to her.
And I don't usually do that kindof thing so quickly.
I like, I'm, I'm very kind oforganized.
I look weeks in advance, but,first of all, kudos and I'm so
(03:42):
happy to your marketing teamthat they even reached out to
me.
So I got my hands on it and I'mso happy that you were, you said
okay, I can totally sit downwith you next week.
So thank you to everyone andinvolved and most of all for you
for a writing it and b sittingdown today.
Oh yeah.
Very long.
Virginia Evans (03:57):
So happy to.
Brett Benner (03:59):
So before we launch, we launch into the book,
I I just had some questions, soabout you and about your journey
in terms of getting to thispoint, because I know it's been
a journey.
but you, you got your bachelor'sin English literature at James
Madison.
Virginia Evans (04:14):
That's right.
Brett Benner (04:15):
And then you had a, a small detour where you
started a family, correct?
Virginia Evans (04:19):
Yes.
Yes.
Small detour.
Had all my kids.
Brett Benner (04:24):
Did you and your husband meet at at college?
Virginia Evans (04:26):
Yeah, we, we met in undergrad.
We didn't marry right out, butwe married young.
And I mean that could have beena huge mistake because we were
so young, but it wasn't, and heis wonderful and is, I mean, the
book is dedicated to himbecause.
I couldn't have done the last 20years if he hadn't been sort of
like over here pushing me, youknow, pushing me, pushing me and
support and supporting, youknow, supporting us.
(04:48):
And, I mean, I was alwaysworking odd jobs, but he was
really holding down the fort forus.
But yeah, we met in undergradand then we kind of, after a few
years got married and then we'vekind of had a long, in between,
so I've been kind of writing allthe way through.
Brett Benner (05:02):
Wow.
And then got a master's inPhilosophy and creative writing
at Trinity School in Dublin.
Oh, that, so explain this to me.
Yeah.
Explain this major.
First of all, philosophy andcreative writing.
Like, what does that mean?
Virginia Evans (05:13):
Yeah, it's, I think it's their, what is
ithere, an MFA in the States.
Brett Benner (05:16):
Okay.
It's
Virginia Evans (05:17):
that.
Okay.
It's just the same.
It's kind of the same.
It's like a, writing workshopdegree, but it was a crazy, it
was a crazy story.
we'd been married for uh, Iguess about 10 years at this
point, or eight or 10 years.
Our children were three and six.
And you know, my husband hadthis career.
He wasn't really wild about, hewas selling medical equipment.
(05:40):
It wasn't well suited to him.
I was always working kind of dayjobs.
And then I was, I would write,so I'd get up in the four 30 or
five kind of my set, my alarm.
I would get up and then I wouldwrite until it was time to like
wake the children up, go toschool, go to work, whatever the
thing was in the various yearsof all this.
And so we were at a point that,we were just, I mean, we were
(06:05):
happy and, and our children werehealthy and we loved each other,
but we just hated, we just hatedwhat it was like.
He was working all these hours,didn't love his job.
I was slogging and sort of liketucking writing, which is what
I've always done, and which iswhat I love to do in these early
morning hours, like in the darkand then going to do jobs I
(06:27):
didn't want to do.
And, we sort of had this momentwhere, we sort of sat down and I
said, what are, what are, whyare we doing, what are we doing?
Like why are we doing this?
What are, what is the, how didwe get here?
And we sort of started to pickapart, like, you know, we bought
a house and then it was like.
A dog and then a kid, and then abigger car, and then another
(06:49):
bigger, you know, slightlybigger house and a little bit of
a nicer car.
And then, you know, just kind oflike those little incremental
increases and, but.
To what for what it felt likewe, you jump into this river and
the river's current just takesyou away and is that your whole
life?
Right.
And we just had this momentwhere, I remember and I wrote an
(07:10):
essay about this that waspublished, published in the
Irish Times, but we had thismoment where he, he was putting
the children to bed and I wasdownstairs and I was cleaning
the toys and cleaning at the endof the day, and he came
downstairs and he just sort offell into the couch and I said,
let's move abroad.
I.
Like, let's sell the house, quitour jobs, give everything away,
(07:33):
sell it to Goodwill.
Take the kids off school.
Let's, let's move abroad.
And he was, he kind of said, howwould we, why, how would we do
that?
And I had already sort of beenlooking at, um, writing programs
abroad in English speakingcountries.
I knew he wouldn't go for it ifit was like, we have to learn a
foreign language and with ourtwo small children.
(07:56):
I, it, it is a long journey, butwe did it.
It was the craziest, most likecountercultural thing we could
have done.
All of our friends later told usthey thought we were insane to
make that decision.
And you know, it's kind ofsaying, it's kind of for
forfeiting everything you'velike acquired or like by burning
(08:18):
it all down, you're sort ofsaying, okay.
I'm, I'm like deciding thatthat's not, this isn't our top
value.
What is our top value?
And so then it was like, wewanna relearn each other.
We wanna go somewhere together.
Brett Benner (08:30):
Mm-hmm.
Virginia Evans (08:30):
To, I mean, truly like wanted to live
outside of America.
We had traveled and just foundEuropean culture to be more
suitable for our family.
And so we lived in Ireland thatyear, and it was, and
Brett Benner (08:40):
all of us now
Virginia Evans (08:41):
know, I know I think everybody does now, but,
um, yeah, that was, it was justsuch a, and that.
Oh, when we lived in Ireland,it, it changed our lives.
Changed our lives.
Oh.
Brett Benner (08:53):
That is so amazing.
I mean, first of all, how braveand, and second of all, I.
Just, you know, what a leap offaith, and it also is a
testament to the both of you andyour relationship mm-hmm.
That you're like, because manyrelations c couldn't stand that,
you know, they, it would belike, the stress of it would be
the end of it.
So Yeah, that's, yeah.
(09:13):
No, I'm sure.
Yeah.
I mean, what do they say?
Even like, they'll say some ofthe most stressful points of a,
of a relationship are either,um, moving a death in the
family, like a death of aparent, or, um, you know,
children, all of this like big.
tent poles, but like you took alot of'em at once and said,
let's try to do all of thesethings at the same time.
Virginia Evans (09:32):
It's true, and I mean we sort of have this
amazing our, we've always hadthis sort of amazing symbiosis,
my husband and.
Me and my husband and I, myhusband and me, I'm still not
great at
Brett Benner (09:44):
that.
The both of you?
Virginia Evans (09:44):
Yeah.
The, the two of us.
The unit.
And he's a very sort of even,practical, just reasonable human
being.
He's so reasonable.
He's so kind.
He's very gentle and I am justalways going in a thousand
directions and I am always kindof thinking.
We could do this, we could dothis.
(10:05):
So we could do this.
But the amazing thing, and myhusband is a true feminist.
I mean, the amazing thing isthat he has always said, okay,
okay, let's try, let's do, let'stry.
I'll try.
He just has given me all thedignity and like all the space
to, to be this like wildthinker.
(10:26):
And that's, I mean, I could nothave.
Try it again and failed againand tried it again with writing
for 20 years.
If I had had a partner that wassort of like, what are you
doing?
And
Brett Benner (10:36):
Right.
Virginia Evans (10:37):
Be making money somewhat.
Give up
Brett Benner (10:39):
his hobby.
Virginia Evans (10:40):
Yeah, give up his hobby.
Right.
I really do think that'sprobably what a lot of people
are dealing with and if it hadbeen that, A, I wouldn't have
married him and b, I wouldn'thave lasted this long probably.
Brett Benner (10:52):
How amazing.
How amazing.
It's also that kind of thing.
A little bit of oppositesattract and Yes.
'cause I have very much the sameand you and I seem very similar
and, and, and our husbands seemvery similar, but, okay.
So you went through this processand so we were talking
beforehand.
So you had a number of thingsthat you had, you know, that
kind of stop and started thingsthat hadn't got published.
You went through quite a bitbefore landing on this, correct?
Virginia Evans (11:14):
That's right, yeah.
The, kind of, the long storyshort is, you know,, I had kind
of written a few novels andthen.
In 2015, I self-published anovel, but, and it did okay.
But I mean, mostly I thinkpeople, I knew copies.
I was really, I was.
I had taken out other books, thetraditional route hadn't done
(11:35):
well, hadn't even been able toget an agent.
And then, with this book, I, Ithink it's a good book and I
liked it, but I, we had no moneyand I needed a new computer and
I, mm-hmm.
And I thought if I sell enoughpub, self-published copies, I
can afford to buy a newcomputer.
So that's what I did.
I, my goal was to sell enough.
(11:56):
Copies through theself-publishing process to
afford a new computer.
And I wanted, and I needed a Macbecause I, I use a Mac, so
they're expensive.
Brett Benner (12:03):
Yeah.
Um,
Virginia Evans (12:04):
and then after that I wrote, another one.
And that book really did almost,almost make it, I had a, an
agent with that book and, itwas, it kind of fell apart in a
really sad way, but that alsofailed.
And then when I was in Trinity,part of my coursework was to be
working on a, a novel or a shortstory collection or, you know,
(12:27):
whatever your pursuit is.
And I was writing a novel then,and I started it there and kind
of.
Finished.
It took me probably two years towrite that, that book.
Mm-hmm.
And that book is how I landedwith my current agent.
She's, wonderful.
And she, she's just exceptional.
And I, and I'm so, so thankfulfor her.
(12:48):
And, she found me because ofthat book and all of this is,
you know, every time it'ssending out.
Over a hundred, you know, agentqueries and cold calling.
I mean, you're just, and Ididn't know anyone in this
industry.
I never knew, knew anyone whohad been a writer.
I didn't, I really didn't knowany, I didn't know what I was
doing.
I was like buying the writer'sAlmanac, reading like how to
(13:13):
query, like how to write aquery.
Yeah.
I mean, it was just like nobodyin my family has any, there's
just no, history of this in mylife.
And so.
so with that book, that book is,a book that I love and I'm
really proud of, and I hopesomeday it comes into the light.
But, that book didn't sell thatshe was trying to sell that
(13:34):
during Covid.
I think it was a hard time tosell book, and it's a very
literary kind of, historical,it's kind of a Vietnam era.
Americana Southern Book, whichis very much related to my
family history.
And then after that book wasn'tselling, my agent had this
amazing way of never telling me,this is not working, but sort
(13:57):
of, sort of like giving me thishope that maybe still this could
sell, but maybe you should startworking on something else.
So I started to write anothernovel, not the correspondent.
it was Covid and we had comeback from Ireland because my
father-in-law was sick and we,we had to come back because my
husband was helping to care forhim it was just a tough time.
(14:19):
and so we were living in thislittle rental and, you know, it
was one of these new nineties,kinda like nineties, two
thousands built and it's openconcept and there's like, oh
yeah.
Not a door.
I mean, yeah, there's nowhereyou can like, oh my, it was just
horrible.
And I had no nowhere to go.
And my children were, you know,they're, they're kids, they're
great, but like, so always justright here.
Brett Benner (14:42):
Yeah.
Virginia Evans (14:42):
And there was nowhere to go.
And so we had this closet and Ishoved the clothes around and I
shoved a desk inside the closet,this tiny desk, inside this
tiny, horrible closet at thisrun.
Were Harry
Brett Benner (14:54):
Potter, basically.
Yeah.
Virginia Evans (14:55):
Truly, truly.
And I would get up at four 30and I would write, and I, and I
had started something else, andthen I just was like, I was
depressed and sad to be backfrom Ireland.
I never wanted, I didn't wannacome back.
It was really painful.
I was in such a low place andthen I scrapped the thing I was
writing and I started writingthe correspondent, and it was
(15:18):
not for anyone.
I was not going to give it to myagent.
I just was, I think I was justlike, I.
Trying to get everything outtamy body.
That was, yeah, hard and sad.
I think it's probably why I hadthe courage to do things like
take on the VO voice of JoanDidion or things like that,
because I wasn't planning onshowing it to anyone.
(15:40):
and I don't even know how myagent Hillary got her hands on
it, but she did.
I think she probably just said,send me a little bit just for
fun.
And then she thought, shethought I should try to.
Take it to the next step.
So I did.
And um, and then at first whenshe took it out to sell, it
really wasn't getting anyinterest at all.
And then all of a sudden, one,one editor was interested and
(16:02):
that made another editor beinterested.
And it ended up being AmyEinhorn who bought.
Brett Benner (16:07):
Wow.
Wow.
Okay.
So now we're at that point of doyou have an elevator pitch for
Virginia Evans (16:14):
Yeah,
Brett Benner (16:14):
for the correspondent.
Okay, awesome.
Virginia Evans (16:16):
I, I'm working on this.
It's Sure.
I'm trying to workshop this.
Um, the correspondent is.
Sybil Van Antwerp, that she isthe correspondent.
And this book is a puzzle to me.
It's a puzzle and it's when thepuzzle is finished at the end,
you have a portrait of Sybil.
Brett Benner (16:35):
Mm-hmm.
Virginia Evans (16:36):
But all the letters are like the pieces of
this puzzle that you're kind ofputting together.
And you know, they're not comingin order, but you're sort of,
it's sort of throughout thebook, I think she's coming into
like a clearer and clearerrelief.
And then I hope, and it's all inletters.
But it's through these letters,um, that she writes and
(16:56):
receives, and by the end of thebook you come away and I think
you know who she is, but I thinkwhat makes you turn the pages is
that you're trying to completethis puzzle and get the clear
picture and understand.
Brett Benner (17:11):
Yeah.
and it's interesting hearing youdescribe it that way, and it's
so true in terms of a puzzlebecause, you know, like you
said, it's an epistolatorynovel, which I want to ask you
about that and, and how thatdecision, came up for you.
To start with, I'm just curious,why that format?
I, I, I have to say I loved thatformat for this, and it had been
so long since I had read a book.
(17:32):
I actually was going through andI was like, what was the last
book I read?
And I was like, okay, it wasn'tthe color purple.
It wasn't, you know, what wasit?
No, it, no, I think it reallywas, you know, it was, it was
janice Hallett, who wrote thisbook called The Appeal, and then
she's got a series of like,there're these mysteries, but
they're all done throughcorrespondence between the
people in the town.
(17:53):
Okay.
And that's the way it's done.
But that was like, and she's aseries of them, but that was a
while ago.
But yeah.
What made you choose thisformat?
Virginia Evans (18:00):
That's a great question.
You know, there's this, I thinkthere, I think it's Zadie Smith
originally said this, but shesaid, I'm always writing the
book that I wanna read.
That's like, what I'm writing iswhat I want to read.
And I always think about that.
And that has always been truefor me when I've started a new
project and I had finishedreading 84 Chairing Crossroad.
Have you read that?
Brett Benner (18:20):
No, I know.
It's
Virginia Evans (18:22):
great.
It'll take you, it'll take youan hour and a half.
It's very short.
It's it's letters, it's written,it's letters that cover, I mean,
I think they go over about 25years, but they're.
Very short, and it's just veryfew, but it's this
correspondence between thisacademic in New York City and a
bookseller in London, I believe.
And I had finished reading thatbook and I closed it and I just
(18:44):
wanted, I just wanted it, I.
I wanted it to never end.
But it was complete.
I mean, the story is perfect andit's complete, but I wanted that
and I, had also just finishedreading The Uncommon Reader by
Alan Bennett.
Do you know that one?
Brett Benner (18:57):
It's, yeah.
No, I know Alan.
I, but I haven't read it.
No.
Okay.
It's,
Virginia Evans (18:59):
um, it's,
Brett Benner (19:00):
you're giving me all these great,
Virginia Evans (19:01):
oh yeah.
And these are both really short,like very quick reads.
and that book is not epistolary,but it's kind of got a similar
energy of, of, um.
I don't know, was I wanting justto like, feel something but not
like sensational or too dark orI just wanted to like, feel
(19:22):
something.
And, that was what I was wantingfrom and was getting from those
books.
And so when I read Air 84Charring Crossroad with the
letters.
I always have this kind ofpsychotic thought, like, I could
do this when I read, like I readlike Yeah.
Types of wrath and I'm like, Ican do this insanity.
Like I think that's kind of aninsanity.
But I read her book.
(19:43):
I mean it's a classic.
It's just like, not eventouchable, but I thought, I
wanna, I can do this.
Brett Benner (19:47):
So it's a gentle madness.
Okay, so then my next questionis in regards to Sybil.
Let's, let's talk about her fora second.
Um, you know, Sybil has hadthree children.
She was a, she's a divorced mom.
She's in her early seventies.
She has a brother.
All of these people begin to getrevealed through the course of
the correspondence that she has,which was also so interesting
(20:09):
because I would find myselfgoing back and saying, wait.
Again, it's such an interestingway to, to read something if
you're not used to this format,because you are just getting
what's going back and forth andslowly, slowly start to parse
out what's happening as thecorrespondence continues between
these people.
Yeah.
Which is, which is really kindof cool.
(20:31):
You know, it's so funny becauseI was reading and some reviews
and different people We'retalking about how prickly that
Sybil is.
And yet I didn't necessarilyfind her that way.
I dunno what that says about me.
And part of it is, like yousaid, by the end, everything of
who she is makes so much sense.
But also I just kind of lookedat her as, you know, this, she
(20:55):
had spirit.
That's the way I viewed her.
Mm-hmm.
To be perfectly honest, she alsoreminded me a little bit of my
mother-in-law, who is absolutelyprickly.
So she seemed tame incomparison, and I thought of my
mother-in-law a lot when I wasgoing through this.
In fact, I, I I was like, I haveto send this to my
mother-in-law, um, because I'm,because she is a woman who
(21:17):
writes letters.
She does all those things.
Virginia Evans (21:19):
Mm-hmm.
Brett Benner (21:20):
Are you a letter writer?
Virginia Evans (21:21):
I am.
Yeah.
Brett Benner (21:22):
You are.
Virginia Evans (21:23):
I have.
I have always been, and I havesent, and I mean, I've sent some
crazy letters, but I havereceived the most beautiful, I
mean, you can't, it's, it saysthis at one point in the book,
people are always surprised tofind that I.
People write back.
I mean, people write back.
I think it's such a novelty now.
I mean, it was such an, it wassuch an institution and such a
(21:44):
necessity, you know, until itwasn't.
And then yes, it's all sort ofbeen abandoned.
And I try not to read reviews,but I see some of the kind of
conversations online sometimes,like through Instagram and, um,
some people will say, I mean,most people will say, I have, I,
I've never written a letter orI.
(22:05):
Can't think of the last time Iwrote a letter.
And I think, to me it's, forinstance, I'll, I wrote to Anne
Patchett like 10 years ago whenI read Commonwealth, and we've
been, we've been correspondingever since.
She and I write letters and thefirst time I wrote to her, I
said.
This is what I loved about yourbook.
I write to authors when I lovetheir book usually.
(22:26):
And, um, this is what I lovedabout your book.
This is what I, this is whatmoved me, spoke to me.
I mean, I wouldn't have writtenher a letter if I didn't like
it, but I did love it.
Right, right.
And, you know, she wrote backand over the years, we've just
maintained like an ongoing, Imean, not frequent, not as.
much as Sybil writes, but youknow, just here and there when
(22:49):
her books come out, I'll writeto her that I liked it or
whatever, and she'll write back.
And when I had my agents, myagent fall through with the,
that hard time before we movedto Ireland, she was really, you
know, kind to me and helped mesort of navigate some of that.
And, so just people like that.
My husband bought this amazingpiece of art for me, during
(23:11):
Covid for Christmas, and it'sthis, lino cut and it's of a
fishing boat.
And the man who does these linocuts is on, I think, on the
coast of England and Cornwalland like 85.
And I mean this art, you cannotbelieve how beautiful it is.
And we bought it and he sent itto me.
(23:31):
I wrote to him and I said, Ireceive this as a gift.
I think it's stunning.
I, you know, it's like Sybilsays, you sort of say what you
wanna say, you ask a question,it creates an ongoing
conversation.
And it does.
And he wrote back this, I mean,I have all these letters in my,
you know, he wrote back, I wasgonna
Brett Benner (23:48):
ask if you save your letters.
Virginia Evans (23:50):
Yes.
And he, you know, he said, thankyou so much.
It means so much to me.
And, for the first time, I don'thave an apprentice and this is a
dying.
Art.
And when I, and I'm 85 and I'mgonna die.
And then who will do this?
I mean, and you just, there'sjust so much life out there that
I think is fascinating.
Brett Benner (24:09):
Yeah.
There's a, there's this quote Iwanted to read, and it comes
late in the book, but I'm notruining anything.
Um, it's, it's just, it's Sybilsaying, through correspondence,
I could find inexplicablerelief.
I could write to anyone.
I could take the time to thinkthrough what I wanted to say,
practice, rewrite, and get itexactly how I wanted it.
(24:30):
It was so much easier for me towrite than it was to have a
conversation.
And then she says later, when Iwas young by writing letters, I
found a framework that madeliving easier, and that has
never changed.
Do you find that at all foryourself?
Virginia Evans (24:45):
Yeah, I do.
I think, I actually do feel thatway.
I think I, there's parts of methat are reflected in Sybil I do
not, I am a much more ableperson in social situations than
she sort of is, but I havealways found that there's a.
Sort of a piece to be able tosit quietly at the desk and
(25:08):
write the letter and say exactlywhat I mean to say.
And if I want to say somethingmeaningful, If I wanna say, say
something that, I want thisperson to really hear me say the
right way.
I wanna write it, and then Iwanna send it to them so that
they can hold it and read it.
And like a good example of thisis when our graduation from my
(25:31):
master's got pushed because ofCovid.
And when it got rescheduled, itwas a couple years.
It was like a year and a halflate.
Mm.
And so my husband and I flewback to Dublin for the
graduation, and it was.
I mean in the top five expermoments, just sort of, thing
things that's ever happened tome.
And, um, the Dean of students hetalked about what it was like
(25:57):
for master's students whose,time in school was, was waylaid
and, and sort of wrecked and putsideways by Covid and how we had
to move online and how it wasjust like so grueling and, and
he stood up there and I satthere just weeping because he
was putting all these words to.
(26:18):
What I had, the grief I had feltover not only having to cut the
program short, but having toleave Ireland and move back to
the states, which I was like notprepared to do.
And I wrote to him after, Iwrote him this letter I wrote
notes about what I wanted tosay.
I thought about it, the wholeplane ride home.
I just thought, and thought, andthought, and then I sent him
(26:39):
this letter.
I actually sent him an emailbecause I wanted it to reach
him.
Sent him the email and he wroteback and said, in my whole life,
that is the most generous letterI've ever received.
And I just think that's what,that's what correspondence is.
I mean, when you receive areally well thought out, it's
(27:01):
best if it's in your mailbox,but, or in email, I mean.
The written word, it's time.
It's like you can have itforever.
Brett Benner (27:08):
After my mother, she passed away during Covid.
My sister had gone back to cleanout her, apartment and she came
across a box and it was filledof with letters from my father.
Virginia Evans (27:21):
Oh.
Brett Benner (27:21):
Um, and some of them, and I have all of them now
because I actually thought abouttrying to find some way to
record the letters and putpictures of them when they were
young together because.
You know, you have an idea aboutwho this person is based on what
you're seeing, and especiallywith your parents, right?
Mm-hmm.
But to see him, my dad courtingher and writing these letters
(27:46):
while he was, I.
Some of them when he was in thewar, some of them after they'd
been married and, and she waspregnant with my sister.
Mm.
And first of all, his penmanshipwas so beautiful.
Oh.
'cause that's the other thingabout it too, is looking at a
letter and how someone actually,the physical writing mm-hmm.
And, and their penmanship.
But he had beautiful penmanshipand he would, he was saying
(28:09):
things like, my Darlene, DarleneSweet.
Girl.
Like when it was not even mywife always, you know, and he'd
go through and he'd be like,kiss that child of mine and I'll
see you soon.
And then, and then, you know,don't be talking to other men
while I'm gone.
You know?
He was playful.
Yeah.
And it was this side of themthat I never saw because, you
know, by the time I grew up,they'd been together for so
long.
It was, you know.
(28:30):
everything that goes, 50 plusyears of marriage.
But, um, but it was just, it wassuch a beautiful thing to see
but I do, I think it's such alost art and there is something
so absolutely, so beautifulabout it and for people who do
it.
Yeah.
I loved hearing the AnnePatchett story, because I wanted
to know if as you went throughthis, if in fact you did write
(28:53):
to authors a and I.
And how you decided on who youdecided, like I personally, I,
first of all, I'm like so manypeople obsessed with Anne
Patchett, so I loved that AnnePatchett was one of the, the
authors that she wrote to.
And for our listeners and ourreaders in the book, Sybil is a,
is a big reader and generallywhen she's corresponding with
people is always asking, whatare you reading again?
(29:14):
Which I loved.
But how did you make thedecision on the authors that she
chose to?
write too.
Virginia Evans (29:20):
I would say almost all I went through and
had to make a list of all thebooks that are referenced in the
book, for my team at, at Crown.
And I was sort of looking at thelist and every, almost every
book I would say maybe otherthan.
Three or four.
Every book has meant somethingto me or has been a book that I
(29:44):
loved or hated but really madelike a impact on me.
And I think there are certain, Imean, I think it's okay to like,
mention certain books that arementioned.
Sure.
You know, The Anne Patrickconnection is obvious because it
really changed my life to, tohear from her and then for her
(30:04):
to give me the dignity of anongoing relationship over the
years.
And obviously like she ended upblurbing the book, which I
didn't know about and I didn'tknow she had read it and I
didn't know she was going toread it, read.
So I was really surprised bythat.
In a great, I mean, obviously itwas like the surprise of a
lifetime.
But, you know, certain books,they all pretty much all meant
(30:25):
something to me.
and the ones that really getlike a push to the forefront,
um, like there's, there's aletter late in the book from an
author and, this is just acuriosity point, but I could
only write from the voice ofpeople who are no longer living.
So the only authors that writeback are no longer living.
(30:46):
But they would've been duringthe time of the book, so I
couldn't write in the voice of,you know, CASBO Ishiguro or
something because he's stillliving.
But I was able to write in the oother voices, because they are
not, so that was like a legalitything, which I figured out early
on.
Thanks to my mentor, he told methat.
but the books that really get aprominent position, are books
(31:08):
that really have.
It meant something to me andhave altered my, you know,
really altered my life or mysoul.
And, I won't say what the bookis, but the kind of last book
that's referenced, is a bookthat is, is one of my all time
favorites and all of my all timefavorite books are in are
mentioned in the
Brett Benner (31:28):
God I love that.
So yeah, it's one of them.
As I was sitting in my officethe other day and was just
reading this and sobbing, Ilooked across at my bookshelf
'cause I was thinking about thebooks that she was talking
about.
And there is one of them towardsthe end.
That's a massive tome.
Virginia Evans (31:42):
Mm-hmm.
Brett Benner (31:42):
And, um, I could see it sitting across from me,
which I haven't read it yet.
It did make me look at that, andI was like, I've gotta get on
this.
And that's again, the feelingthat the book kind of evoked for
me because, and it's a testamentto you and your writing of this
character that she feels sofamiliar by the end.
And because of the intimacy ofthe letters, you feel like
(32:05):
you're kind of prying intosomeone's life in a way that's
different than a normalnarrative.
Virginia Evans (32:09):
Mm-hmm.
Brett Benner (32:09):
In a way that's telling you or showing you
something you feel.
so for anyone who loves thewritten word and love stories.
To be getting this ongoing, backand forth about all of these
different kind of books thatshe's recommending or talking
about.
It's like, you know, sittingwith a good friend who says, who
(32:30):
says exactly this?
What are you reading?
What are you loving?
Virginia Evans (32:33):
Mm-hmm.
Brett Benner (32:33):
And it's such like a.
A bonus point.
I haven't seen a finished copyof the book, but I almost want
there to be like, these are allthe books that are referenced in
the end.
Did they do that?
Virginia Evans (32:42):
I just got one.
Brett Benner (32:44):
Oh my God, that's so beautiful.
Yeah, it's beautiful.
Virginia Evans (32:49):
But no, they don't list the books.
But I can send it to you.
Brett Benner (32:52):
But yeah, no, I can certainly go back.
It's easy enough, but Wow.
There's also so much about thisbook, and I don't wanna get into
specifics.
Again, I'm trying to be verygeneral because I think it's
about discovery.
But beyond her, her family andher relationship with her
children, which is a point, andthere, there is a central family
story to all of this because alot of her correspondence,
frankly, is with family members,with her brother, with her, with
(33:13):
her daughter, and her son.
Um, the one thing, the one thingI will say, this is not a
spoiler, but in the book, herkids get her a, a kit to what,
what is called, the KindredProject, which is effectively
23.
And me, um, which I loved this,and she does it.
And what kind of happens aftershe almost reluctantly takes
(33:33):
this test.
So I don't want to get into whathappens because of that.
Have you ever done this?
Did you ever do 23 8?
Okay.
Virginia Evans (33:39):
Well, I've never done it, but I wanted to write
about it.
So I did the free trial.
Brett Benner (33:46):
Okay.
Virginia Evans (33:46):
I did it with Ancestry.
I did like the free trial ofancestry.com.
I didn't do, I didn't take it asfar as she takes it, but I just
dabbled'cause I needed tounderstand how does the
interface work like.
Is there a dashboard?
How does this work?
Yeah, it was amazing.
I wanted to keep going but likebudget cuts in my family, but I,
(34:06):
so I didn't do it, but I mightonce, if this book does well,
maybe I'll come back to
Brett Benner (34:11):
And I don't know how Ancestry works.
Is, is it a similar thing?
Do you have to, I,
Virginia Evans (34:14):
I mean, I kind of based the Kindred project on
my experience with Ancestry.
Yeah.
And I mean, I mean it's fiction.
I mean, I just made up Yeah.
I don't know
Brett Benner (34:22):
how it works.
No, it was very convincing andimmediately it was like, I
hadn't even thought of Ancestry,but I was like, oh my God, this,
this whole thing.
It's, it's fascinating,especially for a woman like that
Yeah.
Who is, is pretty much socontrolled to do something
that's throwing caution to thewind, so to speak.
Yes.
Virginia Evans (34:36):
Yeah.
That aspect of.
engaging with that.
I mean, this book was a.
Joy to write.
I just, I, it was so fun and itwas just wonderful.
other books I've written felthard and like a slog, but this
was not that way, but thataspect, that kind of, that
aspect of her story, which, youknow, a lot of the book kind of
(34:57):
goes back in a way and you learnthe past, but then there's this,
a lot of stuff that's happeningright now in her life when she's
in her seventies.
And that aspect was, is and waskind of the part that I loved.
The most probably.
Brett Benner (35:13):
Yeah.
And it's a fascinating thing Ithink with anybody who's watched
anybody including all of that,just people generally aging.
I've had somebody who is olderis contemplating not only their
past, but dealing with so muchof what's happening in the
present in a world that'schanging so rapidly.
(35:33):
Yeah.
Um, just technologically, justin terms of, the way we talk
about everything, the way wetalk about problems, the way we
talk about, mental health, theway we talk about all of it, is
changed so much and that we'vegiven words and voice to things
that, you know, when people wereyounger, they would never have
(35:53):
had.
Mm-hmm.
The Lexicon so to speak.
Yes.
It's a really interesting thing.
Virginia Evans (35:57):
Yeah, I agree.
And you said earlier that Sybilis.
Evocative to you of yourmother-in-law, which is also
true for me and my mother-in-lawwas like a big inspiration for
someone.
That's what I was gonna ask youis
Brett Benner (36:11):
someone, I
Virginia Evans (36:12):
love her.
I mean, I love her and, and I,it was funny, I I was glad what
you said that you don't think ofher as prickly, because I also
don't think of her as prickly.
I think of her as very directand that's it.
very sort of, of her generation.
Yeah.
And sort of like.
I mean, my mother-in-law wasraised, you know, kind of in a,
(36:33):
without a lot of means, verypractical.
She's the oldest child of fiveand she just, she just, I mean,
she's not the same as Sybil andit's not that they're the same,
but there's some things aboutSybil that I sort of learned
that way of being from mymother-in-law who I love.
And um, and I think to me, whenI have heard people refer to her
(36:57):
as.
Prickly or they were reallyturned off by her at the
beginning.
That's fair.
Everybody, you know, everybody'sallowed to, yeah.
No book is universal.
Um, but I just love that qualityin a, in a woman.
I mean, it's really risky to bethat way now, you know?
And, and certainly Sybil.
(37:18):
Needs to learn and grow.
And there's things that she saysand does that are inappropriate
and wrong.
And, you know, hope in mostcases.
I think she kind of wises up andcan say she's sorry, but there's
just something very authentic tome about women and women at that
age, you know?
(37:38):
Not, it's like expectations inthe world are changing really
fast and sort of what'sappropriate and what you can say
and what you can't say.
And everything's moving reallyfast and, and I, I've always
felt like I can give way forspace to learn, like learn and
grow and, you know.
Yeah.
And so that was, I felt like ifSybil was totally appropriate
(38:01):
all the time, I wouldn't reallybelieve.
I wouldn't really believe.
Brett Benner (38:06):
Well, it would, it would, it would make her soft
and sentimental to me in a waythat wouldn't earn what comes
later.
Mm-hmm.
And so, yeah, and again, like Ithink of the way, it's very much
the same, I think of the way my.
Mother-in-law approacheseverything.
And my mother-in-law is 95.
Hmm.
And she, until she was almost 90years old, would drive from
(38:27):
Pennsylvania to, she had a homeup in Nova Scotia.
No.
And she would drive to PrinceEdward Island over a series of
days visiting friends along theway.
But that kind of spirit iswhat's got her to 95.
Virginia Evans (38:43):
Mm-hmm.
Brett Benner (38:44):
There's been a can do attitude of, you know.
She was never like, well, youwon't, you won't go to the gym.
You, you dig a irrigation ditchin the backyard and you make it
productive.
You know, there was no with,with everything.
That's how she would approacheverything we always used to
joke, I'd say my mother-in-lawwas 85 pounds wet.
And, um, she's this petitelittle, I used to call her Nancy
(39:06):
Reagan.
'cause that's what she remindedme of.
She was extremely well dressedand kept herself together.
And Oh, yes, extremely wellread.
Six o'clock was cocktail hours,seven o'clock was dinner every
night.
And she would make it.
And and so.
Reading all that, I was like,well, Sybil is, is this, and
Virginia Evans (39:23):
they'd be best friends.
Brett Benner (39:24):
Yeah.
And so I guess what I would sayto anyone going into the book,
if they do feel that in thebeginning, have patience because
People are willing to change.
And that's the other beautifulthing about it is one of the
book, one of the things aboutthe books that described it as,
you know, oh this woman's worldexpanding as she increases in
age.
And it absolutely does that.
And that's the other thing Ilove so much.
And um, I'm very aware, again,speaking of owns personal
(39:47):
experience'cause where you comefrom at a book, but watching
like my mother-in-law now atthis point in her life, you
know, and the parallels, um.
I just think there is a beautyin it and there's a beauty and
that Sybil shows us with life isalways continuing and it's
(40:08):
always about discovery and it'salways an adventure and, and
that's I think, such a beautifulmessage of the book, that
nothing necessarily has to stopbecause.
Of one thing.
Mm-hmm.
Or one tragedy or one definingmoment.
Right.
We can keep going.
Virginia Evans (40:24):
Oh, that's really beautiful.
I should write that down.
Brett Benner (40:29):
I will just say for our viewers and our
listeners, I'm, I am reluctantto talk even about some specific
characters in the book because.
Uh, I think kind of the beautyof this book in particular, and
because it's the way it'swritten, is discovering these
characters for yourself andseeing who they are and who they
become.
So I don't really want to getinto that much, so I'm sorry,
(40:49):
but you have to read the book orI've heard, the audio book is
also amazing and it's done witha full cast.
Mm-hmm.
I think you had said you hadstarted to hear some of it and
it was great, right?
Yeah,
Virginia Evans (40:58):
that's right.
Yeah.
I listened to it.
It was, it was amazing and Imean, it's, it's an interesting
experience to hear.
Voices put to voices that haveonly lived inside my body and
head, you know?
Um, but they did such abeautiful job.
And a cast, a cast audiobookexperience is so fun.
Oh my gosh.
Brett Benner (41:16):
Like, it's, it's a variety.
It's incredible.
Who would be the perfect Sybilto you if you could cast anyone?
Virginia Evans (41:21):
Like on screen?
Brett Benner (41:22):
Yeah.
Virginia Evans (41:23):
Okay.
I, my, my absolute, what Ialways saw in my mind was Meryl
Streep.
Brett Benner (41:30):
I exactly it, I almost came on today and said,
so is Meryl Streep option thisyet?
Is there an option for me?
Streep really, I
Virginia Evans (41:34):
mean, that's who I, I, as soon as I even had the
notion of like, if, when I,probably, when I finished
whatever draft was the lastdraft, and I thought, what if
this became a movie?
I mean, of course it probablynot, won't become a movie, but
if it did, and I, and I.
Said in my head, I think MerylStreep, and I went to my husband
and I said, who would it be?
And he said, Meryl Streep.
Brett Benner (41:54):
So it's gotta be, I think you should write a
letter to Meryl Streep andinclude the book.
You know the story about howAnne Patchett had Meryl Streep
read Tom Lake?
Do you know the story?
No,
Virginia Evans (42:07):
I dunno the story.
Please tell me.
Brett Benner (42:09):
Okay.
Okay, so.
I saw am Patchett here in LosAngeles, and Kathy Baker was
moderating.
And so Kathy Baker said to her,um, and I'm gonna try to do my
Little Am Patchett, but shesaid, Kathy Baker said, how, you
know, how did you get MerylStreep to read your book?
And she said, do you want toknow how I got Meryl Streep to
do my book?
(42:29):
I asked Meryl Streep to do mybook, and people were laughing.
And she said, I reached out tomy friend.
Well, I forget if it was StanleyTucci or Emily.
Um, one of the two.
'cause Emily had done Devil WarsPrada.
Oh yeah.
And Stanley.
So she reached out to one ofthem who's, um, I believe who's.
(42:51):
Agent was Meryl Streep's agentor something.
Okay.
And so she sent Meryl Streepthis query, and she said, hi, I
wrote this book.
I thought of you, you know,thought you'd be wonderful to
read it because it's about, um,a mother who's also an actress
and her daughter's an actress.
And, um, and so she said, youknow, Meryl Streep got back to
me almost immediately and said,I'd love to do your book.
(43:12):
And she said, well, do you wannaread it first?
And she said, no, I read otheryour stuff here before I trust
you.
I'm, I'm in.
And she said, so that was that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Virginia Evans (43:19):
How wonderful are people?
I mean, people are just peopleand I love that.
What a great story.
Brett Benner (43:24):
So now with your writing skills and your track
record, and maybe just
Virginia Evans (43:30):
your doers.
Brett Benner (43:30):
Yeah.
And maybe just reference AnnePatchett and just say, my.
My friend Anne, who I regularlywrite to had mentioned I'd heard
of and, uh, yeah, no, I'mserious.
I was like, and like justslipper A PDF and say, what do
you think about this for you?
I mean, listen, everybody needsa good role.
Virginia Evans (43:52):
It can't hurt.
I mean, I, I.
I think she would be brilliant.
I think she, I, I
Brett Benner (43:56):
agree a hundred percent.
Like I was going through thosewomen and I was like, you know,
it could be Glenn Close, butMeryl Streep was the first one I
thought of, but there, butcertainly, um.
What a role.
What a role
Virginia Evans (44:06):
that would really beat all that.
Would really beat all.
Brett Benner (44:09):
Yeah.
Well, Virginia, this has been solovely.
Go out and get thecorrespondent, buy independent
if you can.
But check it out on audio or thebook.
congratulations.
It's, it's just, it's so, sobeautiful.
And, and, and have your tissuesready.
Virginia Evans (44:25):
Yeah.
Thank you so much.
This was so fun.
Brett Benner (44:28):
Thanks.
Thank you again Virginia, and ifyou liked this conversation and
like what you're hearing, pleaseconsider liking and subscribing
to the podcast.
And another thing that wouldreally help me out is to give
the podcast a review with fiveStars.
Every little bit helps, and Ireally appreciate you all
listening, and I will be backlater this week with another
(44:51):
episode of Behind the Stack.
So until then, thanks.
Hey Everybody, it's Brett Benner and welcome or
welcome back to another episodeof Behind the Stack.
I hope you all had a great week.
It was a busy lit week here inLos Angeles with the LA Times
Book Festival.
A lot of authors descending.
I got to, see Jiamin and AndyTang who wrote the fantastic
(00:21):
book Cinema Love, which ended upwinning the LA Times book
festival award for best debutnovel.
So I was thrilled for him andgot to see him briefly, so that
was really nice.
I also got invited to an eventfor VE Schwab for her new book,
bury our Bones in the MidnightSoil, which is coming out in
June about a trio of femalevampires.
(00:43):
It looks so good and she isjust.
So fun and delightful.
So that was cool.
A big book week on releases thisweek.
A few of them I wanted to talkabout with all of you.
The first is.
Leanne Zangs, Julie Chan isDead, which is a debut thriller
for fans of Bunny and YellowFace about a young woman who
(01:06):
steps into her deceased twinsinfluencer life only to discover
dark secrets hidden behind hersocial media facade.
I think that one sounds.
Really great.
And then also, um, Chuck Wendigwho's, you know, thriller horror
writer, his new book, AStaircase in the Woods, about a
group of friends investigatingthe mystery of a strange
staircase in the woods.
(01:28):
In this new mesmerizing horrornovel from the New York Times
bestselling author of The Bookof Accidents.
The last book that I wanted totalk about before we get in
today's is called the LilacPeople by Milo.
Todd, which is a.
A really fantastic book,historical novel, set in World
(01:50):
War II around Hitler's rise.
Milo Todd will be.
On the podcast later this week,so look for that.
We had a great conversation, soreally enjoyed it.
Which brings me to my last newrelease, which is also our guest
for this week.
The book is the correspondent,the author is Virginia Evans.
(02:12):
Oh my gosh.
I, I love this novel and I'mgonna let you hear the
conversation to, to, to see howit very rapidly came on my radar
and how this conversation todayhappened so quickly.
But Virginia's fantastic.
The book is so good.
So without giving anything elseaway, please enjoy this episode
of Behind the Stack.
(02:38):
I'm thrilled to be sitting downwith Virginia Evans today, whose
beautiful new book, theCorrespondent, I was saying to
her before we started, I got acopy of this and last week read
it.
Well, I got to the weekend andit was, it was I think Friday
night and I was down to like thelast 50 pages and I came into
(03:00):
the bedroom and my husband'slike, what's wrong with you?
And I was like, I'm reading thisbook.
And I just like, like.
It's a, it just is really liketouching me and moving me.
And he was like, okay, so cut tonext day.
I'm reading the rest of the bookin my office, like audibly
sobbing, like audibly, likedoing like that, like when you
kind of can't get your breath.
And so I finished and he was inhis office next door.
He's like.
(03:20):
What is the matter with you?
And I was like, it, it's like,is it that book?
That's still that book?
And I was like, it's still thebook.
And it, it's really, so anyway,I, I reached out to you
immediately, as you know, andI'm letting everyone know
because I was like, I have totalk to her.
And I don't usually do that kindof thing so quickly.
I like, I'm, I'm very kind oforganized.
I look weeks in advance, but,first of all, kudos and I'm so
(03:42):
happy to your marketing teamthat they even reached out to
me.
So I got my hands on it and I'mso happy that you were, you said
okay, I can totally sit downwith you next week.
So thank you to everyone andinvolved and most of all for you
for a writing it and b sittingdown today.
Oh yeah.
Very long.
Virginia Evans (03:57):
So happy to.
Brett Benner (03:59):
So before we launch, we launch into the book,
I I just had some questions, soabout you and about your journey
in terms of getting to thispoint, because I know it's been
a journey.
but you, you got your bachelor'sin English literature at James
Madison.
Virginia Evans (04:14):
That's right.
Brett Benner (04:15):
And then you had a, a small detour where you
started a family, correct?
Virginia Evans (04:19):
Yes.
Yes.
Small detour.
Had all my kids.
Brett Benner (04:24):
Did you and your husband meet at at college?
Virginia Evans (04:26):
Yeah, we, we met in undergrad.
We didn't marry right out, butwe married young.
And I mean that could have beena huge mistake because we were
so young, but it wasn't, and heis wonderful and is, I mean, the
book is dedicated to himbecause.
I couldn't have done the last 20years if he hadn't been sort of
like over here pushing me, youknow, pushing me, pushing me and
support and supporting, youknow, supporting us.
(04:48):
And, I mean, I was alwaysworking odd jobs, but he was
really holding down the fort forus.
But yeah, we met in undergradand then we kind of, after a few
years got married and then we'vekind of had a long, in between,
so I've been kind of writing allthe way through.
Brett Benner (05:02):
Wow.
And then got a master's inPhilosophy and creative writing
at Trinity School in Dublin.
Oh, that, so explain this to me.
Yeah.
Explain this major.
First of all, philosophy andcreative writing.
Like, what does that mean?
Virginia Evans (05:13):
Yeah, it's, I think it's their, what is
ithere, an MFA in the States.
Brett Benner (05:16):
Okay.
It's
Virginia Evans (05:17):
that.
Okay.
It's just the same.
It's kind of the same.
It's like a, writing workshopdegree, but it was a crazy, it
was a crazy story.
we'd been married for uh, Iguess about 10 years at this
point, or eight or 10 years.
Our children were three and six.
And you know, my husband hadthis career.
He wasn't really wild about, hewas selling medical equipment.
(05:40):
It wasn't well suited to him.
I was always working kind of dayjobs.
And then I was, I would write,so I'd get up in the four 30 or
five kind of my set, my alarm.
I would get up and then I wouldwrite until it was time to like
wake the children up, go toschool, go to work, whatever the
thing was in the various yearsof all this.
And so we were at a point that,we were just, I mean, we were
(06:05):
happy and, and our children werehealthy and we loved each other,
but we just hated, we just hatedwhat it was like.
He was working all these hours,didn't love his job.
I was slogging and sort of liketucking writing, which is what
I've always done, and which iswhat I love to do in these early
morning hours, like in the darkand then going to do jobs I
(06:27):
didn't want to do.
And, we sort of had this momentwhere, we sort of sat down and I
said, what are, what are, whyare we doing, what are we doing?
Like why are we doing this?
What are, what is the, how didwe get here?
And we sort of started to pickapart, like, you know, we bought
a house and then it was like.
A dog and then a kid, and then abigger car, and then another
(06:49):
bigger, you know, slightlybigger house and a little bit of
a nicer car.
And then, you know, just kind oflike those little incremental
increases and, but.
To what for what it felt likewe, you jump into this river and
the river's current just takesyou away and is that your whole
life?
Right.
And we just had this momentwhere, I remember and I wrote an
(07:10):
essay about this that waspublished, published in the
Irish Times, but we had thismoment where he, he was putting
the children to bed and I wasdownstairs and I was cleaning
the toys and cleaning at the endof the day, and he came
downstairs and he just sort offell into the couch and I said,
let's move abroad.
I.
Like, let's sell the house, quitour jobs, give everything away,
(07:33):
sell it to Goodwill.
Take the kids off school.
Let's, let's move abroad.
And he was, he kind of said, howwould we, why, how would we do
that?
And I had already sort of beenlooking at, um, writing programs
abroad in English speakingcountries.
I knew he wouldn't go for it ifit was like, we have to learn a
foreign language and with ourtwo small children.
(07:56):
I, it, it is a long journey, butwe did it.
It was the craziest, most likecountercultural thing we could
have done.
All of our friends later told usthey thought we were insane to
make that decision.
And you know, it's kind ofsaying, it's kind of for
forfeiting everything you'velike acquired or like by burning
(08:18):
it all down, you're sort ofsaying, okay.
I'm, I'm like deciding thatthat's not, this isn't our top
value.
What is our top value?
And so then it was like, wewanna relearn each other.
We wanna go somewhere together.
Brett Benner (08:30):
Mm-hmm.
Virginia Evans (08:30):
To, I mean, truly like wanted to live
outside of America.
We had traveled and just foundEuropean culture to be more
suitable for our family.
And so we lived in Ireland thatyear, and it was, and
Brett Benner (08:40):
all of us now
Virginia Evans (08:41):
know, I know I think everybody does now, but,
um, yeah, that was, it was justsuch a, and that.
Oh, when we lived in Ireland,it, it changed our lives.
Changed our lives.
Oh.
Brett Benner (08:53):
That is so amazing.
I mean, first of all, how braveand, and second of all, I.
Just, you know, what a leap offaith, and it also is a
testament to the both of you andyour relationship mm-hmm.
That you're like, because manyrelations c couldn't stand that,
you know, they, it would belike, the stress of it would be
the end of it.
So Yeah, that's, yeah.
(09:13):
No, I'm sure.
Yeah.
I mean, what do they say?
Even like, they'll say some ofthe most stressful points of a,
of a relationship are either,um, moving a death in the
family, like a death of aparent, or, um, you know,
children, all of this like big.
tent poles, but like you took alot of'em at once and said,
let's try to do all of thesethings at the same time.
Virginia Evans (09:32):
It's true, and I mean we sort of have this
amazing our, we've always hadthis sort of amazing symbiosis,
my husband and.
Me and my husband and I, myhusband and me, I'm still not
great at
Brett Benner (09:44):
that.
The both of you?
Virginia Evans (09:44):
Yeah.
The, the two of us.
The unit.
And he's a very sort of even,practical, just reasonable human
being.
He's so reasonable.
He's so kind.
He's very gentle and I am justalways going in a thousand
directions and I am always kindof thinking.
We could do this, we could dothis.
(10:05):
So we could do this.
But the amazing thing, and myhusband is a true feminist.
I mean, the amazing thing isthat he has always said, okay,
okay, let's try, let's do, let'stry.
I'll try.
He just has given me all thedignity and like all the space
to, to be this like wildthinker.
(10:26):
And that's, I mean, I could nothave.
Try it again and failed againand tried it again with writing
for 20 years.
If I had had a partner that wassort of like, what are you
doing?
And
Brett Benner (10:36):
Right.
Virginia Evans (10:37):
Be making money somewhat.
Give up
Brett Benner (10:39):
his hobby.
Virginia Evans (10:40):
Yeah, give up his hobby.
Right.
I really do think that'sprobably what a lot of people
are dealing with and if it hadbeen that, A, I wouldn't have
married him and b, I wouldn'thave lasted this long probably.
Brett Benner (10:52):
How amazing.
How amazing.
It's also that kind of thing.
A little bit of oppositesattract and Yes.
'cause I have very much the sameand you and I seem very similar
and, and, and our husbands seemvery similar, but, okay.
So you went through this processand so we were talking
beforehand.
So you had a number of thingsthat you had, you know, that
kind of stop and started thingsthat hadn't got published.
You went through quite a bitbefore landing on this, correct?
Virginia Evans (11:14):
That's right, yeah.
The, kind of, the long storyshort is, you know,, I had kind
of written a few novels andthen.
In 2015, I self-published anovel, but, and it did okay.
But I mean, mostly I thinkpeople, I knew copies.
I was really, I was.
I had taken out other books, thetraditional route hadn't done
(11:35):
well, hadn't even been able toget an agent.
And then, with this book, I, Ithink it's a good book and I
liked it, but I, we had no moneyand I needed a new computer and
I, mm-hmm.
And I thought if I sell enoughpub, self-published copies, I
can afford to buy a newcomputer.
So that's what I did.
I, my goal was to sell enough.
(11:56):
Copies through theself-publishing process to
afford a new computer.
And I wanted, and I needed a Macbecause I, I use a Mac, so
they're expensive.
Brett Benner (12:03):
Yeah.
Um,
Virginia Evans (12:04):
and then after that I wrote, another one.
And that book really did almost,almost make it, I had a, an
agent with that book and, itwas, it kind of fell apart in a
really sad way, but that alsofailed.
And then when I was in Trinity,part of my coursework was to be
working on a, a novel or a shortstory collection or, you know,
(12:27):
whatever your pursuit is.
And I was writing a novel then,and I started it there and kind
of.
Finished.
It took me probably two years towrite that, that book.
Mm-hmm.
And that book is how I landedwith my current agent.
She's, wonderful.
And she, she's just exceptional.
And I, and I'm so, so thankfulfor her.
(12:48):
And, she found me because ofthat book and all of this is,
you know, every time it'ssending out.
Over a hundred, you know, agentqueries and cold calling.
I mean, you're just, and Ididn't know anyone in this
industry.
I never knew, knew anyone whohad been a writer.
I didn't, I really didn't knowany, I didn't know what I was
doing.
I was like buying the writer'sAlmanac, reading like how to
(13:13):
query, like how to write aquery.
Yeah.
I mean, it was just like nobodyin my family has any, there's
just no, history of this in mylife.
And so.
so with that book, that book is,a book that I love and I'm
really proud of, and I hopesomeday it comes into the light.
But, that book didn't sell thatshe was trying to sell that
(13:34):
during Covid.
I think it was a hard time tosell book, and it's a very
literary kind of, historical,it's kind of a Vietnam era.
Americana Southern Book, whichis very much related to my
family history.
And then after that book wasn'tselling, my agent had this
amazing way of never telling me,this is not working, but sort
(13:57):
of, sort of like giving me thishope that maybe still this could
sell, but maybe you should startworking on something else.
So I started to write anothernovel, not the correspondent.
it was Covid and we had comeback from Ireland because my
father-in-law was sick and we,we had to come back because my
husband was helping to care forhim it was just a tough time.
(14:19):
and so we were living in thislittle rental and, you know, it
was one of these new nineties,kinda like nineties, two
thousands built and it's openconcept and there's like, oh
yeah.
Not a door.
I mean, yeah, there's nowhereyou can like, oh my, it was just
horrible.
And I had no nowhere to go.
And my children were, you know,they're, they're kids, they're
great, but like, so always justright here.
Brett Benner (14:42):
Yeah.
Virginia Evans (14:42):
And there was nowhere to go.
And so we had this closet and Ishoved the clothes around and I
shoved a desk inside the closet,this tiny desk, inside this
tiny, horrible closet at thisrun.
Were Harry
Brett Benner (14:54):
Potter, basically.
Yeah.
Virginia Evans (14:55):
Truly, truly.
And I would get up at four 30and I would write, and I, and I
had started something else, andthen I just was like, I was
depressed and sad to be backfrom Ireland.
I never wanted, I didn't wannacome back.
It was really painful.
I was in such a low place andthen I scrapped the thing I was
writing and I started writingthe correspondent, and it was
(15:18):
not for anyone.
I was not going to give it to myagent.
I just was, I think I was justlike, I.
Trying to get everything outtamy body.
That was, yeah, hard and sad.
I think it's probably why I hadthe courage to do things like
take on the VO voice of JoanDidion or things like that,
because I wasn't planning onshowing it to anyone.
(15:40):
and I don't even know how myagent Hillary got her hands on
it, but she did.
I think she probably just said,send me a little bit just for
fun.
And then she thought, shethought I should try to.
Take it to the next step.
So I did.
And um, and then at first whenshe took it out to sell, it
really wasn't getting anyinterest at all.
And then all of a sudden, one,one editor was interested and
(16:02):
that made another editor beinterested.
And it ended up being AmyEinhorn who bought.
Brett Benner (16:07):
Wow.
Wow.
Okay.
So now we're at that point of doyou have an elevator pitch for
Virginia Evans (16:14):
Yeah,
Brett Benner (16:14):
for the correspondent.
Okay, awesome.
Virginia Evans (16:16):
I, I'm working on this.
It's Sure.
I'm trying to workshop this.
Um, the correspondent is.
Sybil Van Antwerp, that she isthe correspondent.
And this book is a puzzle to me.
It's a puzzle and it's when thepuzzle is finished at the end,
you have a portrait of Sybil.
Brett Benner (16:35):
Mm-hmm.
Virginia Evans (16:36):
But all the letters are like the pieces of
this puzzle that you're kind ofputting together.
And you know, they're not comingin order, but you're sort of,
it's sort of throughout thebook, I think she's coming into
like a clearer and clearerrelief.
And then I hope, and it's all inletters.
But it's through these letters,um, that she writes and
(16:56):
receives, and by the end of thebook you come away and I think
you know who she is, but I thinkwhat makes you turn the pages is
that you're trying to completethis puzzle and get the clear
picture and understand.
Brett Benner (17:11):
Yeah.
and it's interesting hearing youdescribe it that way, and it's
so true in terms of a puzzlebecause, you know, like you
said, it's an epistolatorynovel, which I want to ask you
about that and, and how thatdecision, came up for you.
To start with, I'm just curious,why that format?
I, I, I have to say I loved thatformat for this, and it had been
so long since I had read a book.
(17:32):
I actually was going through andI was like, what was the last
book I read?
And I was like, okay, it wasn'tthe color purple.
It wasn't, you know, what wasit?
No, it, no, I think it reallywas, you know, it was, it was
janice Hallett, who wrote thisbook called The Appeal, and then
she's got a series of like,there're these mysteries, but
they're all done throughcorrespondence between the
people in the town.
(17:53):
Okay.
And that's the way it's done.
But that was like, and she's aseries of them, but that was a
while ago.
But yeah.
What made you choose thisformat?
Virginia Evans (18:00):
That's a great question.
You know, there's this, I thinkthere, I think it's Zadie Smith
originally said this, but shesaid, I'm always writing the
book that I wanna read.
That's like, what I'm writing iswhat I want to read.
And I always think about that.
And that has always been truefor me when I've started a new
project and I had finishedreading 84 Chairing Crossroad.
Have you read that?
Brett Benner (18:20):
No, I know.
It's
Virginia Evans (18:22):
great.
It'll take you, it'll take youan hour and a half.
It's very short.
It's it's letters, it's written,it's letters that cover, I mean,
I think they go over about 25years, but they're.
Very short, and it's just veryfew, but it's this
correspondence between thisacademic in New York City and a
bookseller in London, I believe.
And I had finished reading thatbook and I closed it and I just
(18:44):
wanted, I just wanted it, I.
I wanted it to never end.
But it was complete.
I mean, the story is perfect andit's complete, but I wanted that
and I, had also just finishedreading The Uncommon Reader by
Alan Bennett.
Do you know that one?
Brett Benner (18:57):
It's, yeah.
No, I know Alan.
I, but I haven't read it.
No.
Okay.
It's,
Virginia Evans (18:59):
um, it's,
Brett Benner (19:00):
you're giving me all these great,
Virginia Evans (19:01):
oh yeah.
And these are both really short,like very quick reads.
and that book is not epistolary,but it's kind of got a similar
energy of, of, um.
I don't know, was I wanting justto like, feel something but not
like sensational or too dark orI just wanted to like, feel
(19:22):
something.
And, that was what I was wantingfrom and was getting from those
books.
And so when I read Air 84Charring Crossroad with the
letters.
I always have this kind ofpsychotic thought, like, I could
do this when I read, like I readlike Yeah.
Types of wrath and I'm like, Ican do this insanity.
Like I think that's kind of aninsanity.
But I read her book.
(19:43):
I mean it's a classic.
It's just like, not eventouchable, but I thought, I
wanna, I can do this.
Brett Benner (19:47):
So it's a gentle madness.
Okay, so then my next questionis in regards to Sybil.
Let's, let's talk about her fora second.
Um, you know, Sybil has hadthree children.
She was a, she's a divorced mom.
She's in her early seventies.
She has a brother.
All of these people begin to getrevealed through the course of
the correspondence that she has,which was also so interesting
(20:09):
because I would find myselfgoing back and saying, wait.
Again, it's such an interestingway to, to read something if
you're not used to this format,because you are just getting
what's going back and forth andslowly, slowly start to parse
out what's happening as thecorrespondence continues between
these people.
Yeah.
Which is, which is really kindof cool.
(20:31):
You know, it's so funny becauseI was reading and some reviews
and different people We'retalking about how prickly that
Sybil is.
And yet I didn't necessarilyfind her that way.
I dunno what that says about me.
And part of it is, like yousaid, by the end, everything of
who she is makes so much sense.
But also I just kind of lookedat her as, you know, this, she
(20:55):
had spirit.
That's the way I viewed her.
Mm-hmm.
To be perfectly honest, she alsoreminded me a little bit of my
mother-in-law, who is absolutelyprickly.
So she seemed tame incomparison, and I thought of my
mother-in-law a lot when I wasgoing through this.
In fact, I, I I was like, I haveto send this to my
mother-in-law, um, because I'm,because she is a woman who
(21:17):
writes letters.
She does all those things.
Virginia Evans (21:19):
Mm-hmm.
Brett Benner (21:20):
Are you a letter writer?
Virginia Evans (21:21):
I am.
Yeah.
Brett Benner (21:22):
You are.
Virginia Evans (21:23):
I have.
I have always been, and I havesent, and I mean, I've sent some
crazy letters, but I havereceived the most beautiful, I
mean, you can't, it's, it saysthis at one point in the book,
people are always surprised tofind that I.
People write back.
I mean, people write back.
I think it's such a novelty now.
I mean, it was such an, it wassuch an institution and such a
(21:44):
necessity, you know, until itwasn't.
And then yes, it's all sort ofbeen abandoned.
And I try not to read reviews,but I see some of the kind of
conversations online sometimes,like through Instagram and, um,
some people will say, I mean,most people will say, I have, I,
I've never written a letter orI.
(22:05):
Can't think of the last time Iwrote a letter.
And I think, to me it's, forinstance, I'll, I wrote to Anne
Patchett like 10 years ago whenI read Commonwealth, and we've
been, we've been correspondingever since.
She and I write letters and thefirst time I wrote to her, I
said.
This is what I loved about yourbook.
I write to authors when I lovetheir book usually.
(22:26):
And, um, this is what I lovedabout your book.
This is what I, this is whatmoved me, spoke to me.
I mean, I wouldn't have writtenher a letter if I didn't like
it, but I did love it.
Right, right.
And, you know, she wrote backand over the years, we've just
maintained like an ongoing, Imean, not frequent, not as.
much as Sybil writes, but youknow, just here and there when
(22:49):
her books come out, I'll writeto her that I liked it or
whatever, and she'll write back.
And when I had my agents, myagent fall through with the,
that hard time before we movedto Ireland, she was really, you
know, kind to me and helped mesort of navigate some of that.
And, so just people like that.
My husband bought this amazingpiece of art for me, during
(23:11):
Covid for Christmas, and it'sthis, lino cut and it's of a
fishing boat.
And the man who does these linocuts is on, I think, on the
coast of England and Cornwalland like 85.
And I mean this art, you cannotbelieve how beautiful it is.
And we bought it and he sent itto me.
(23:31):
I wrote to him and I said, Ireceive this as a gift.
I think it's stunning.
I, you know, it's like Sybilsays, you sort of say what you
wanna say, you ask a question,it creates an ongoing
conversation.
And it does.
And he wrote back this, I mean,I have all these letters in my,
you know, he wrote back, I wasgonna
Brett Benner (23:48):
ask if you save your letters.
Virginia Evans (23:50):
Yes.
And he, you know, he said, thankyou so much.
It means so much to me.
And, for the first time, I don'thave an apprentice and this is a
dying.
Art.
And when I, and I'm 85 and I'mgonna die.
And then who will do this?
I mean, and you just, there'sjust so much life out there that
I think is fascinating.
Brett Benner (24:09):
Yeah.
There's a, there's this quote Iwanted to read, and it comes
late in the book, but I'm notruining anything.
Um, it's, it's just, it's Sybilsaying, through correspondence,
I could find inexplicablerelief.
I could write to anyone.
I could take the time to thinkthrough what I wanted to say,
practice, rewrite, and get itexactly how I wanted it.
(24:30):
It was so much easier for me towrite than it was to have a
conversation.
And then she says later, when Iwas young by writing letters, I
found a framework that madeliving easier, and that has
never changed.
Do you find that at all foryourself?
Virginia Evans (24:45):
Yeah, I do.
I think, I actually do feel thatway.
I think I, there's parts of methat are reflected in Sybil I do
not, I am a much more ableperson in social situations than
she sort of is, but I havealways found that there's a.
Sort of a piece to be able tosit quietly at the desk and
(25:08):
write the letter and say exactlywhat I mean to say.
And if I want to say somethingmeaningful, If I wanna say, say
something that, I want thisperson to really hear me say the
right way.
I wanna write it, and then Iwanna send it to them so that
they can hold it and read it.
And like a good example of thisis when our graduation from my
(25:31):
master's got pushed because ofCovid.
And when it got rescheduled, itwas a couple years.
It was like a year and a halflate.
Mm.
And so my husband and I flewback to Dublin for the
graduation, and it was.
I mean in the top five expermoments, just sort of, thing
things that's ever happened tome.
And, um, the Dean of students hetalked about what it was like
(25:57):
for master's students whose,time in school was, was waylaid
and, and sort of wrecked and putsideways by Covid and how we had
to move online and how it wasjust like so grueling and, and
he stood up there and I satthere just weeping because he
was putting all these words to.
(26:18):
What I had, the grief I had feltover not only having to cut the
program short, but having toleave Ireland and move back to
the states, which I was like notprepared to do.
And I wrote to him after, Iwrote him this letter I wrote
notes about what I wanted tosay.
I thought about it, the wholeplane ride home.
I just thought, and thought, andthought, and then I sent him
(26:39):
this letter.
I actually sent him an emailbecause I wanted it to reach
him.
Sent him the email and he wroteback and said, in my whole life,
that is the most generous letterI've ever received.
And I just think that's what,that's what correspondence is.
I mean, when you receive areally well thought out, it's
(27:01):
best if it's in your mailbox,but, or in email, I mean.
The written word, it's time.
It's like you can have itforever.
Brett Benner (27:08):
After my mother, she passed away during Covid.
My sister had gone back to cleanout her, apartment and she came
across a box and it was filledof with letters from my father.
Virginia Evans (27:21):
Oh.
Brett Benner (27:21):
Um, and some of them, and I have all of them now
because I actually thought abouttrying to find some way to
record the letters and putpictures of them when they were
young together because.
You know, you have an idea aboutwho this person is based on what
you're seeing, and especiallywith your parents, right?
Mm-hmm.
But to see him, my dad courtingher and writing these letters
(27:46):
while he was, I.
Some of them when he was in thewar, some of them after they'd
been married and, and she waspregnant with my sister.
Mm.
And first of all, his penmanshipwas so beautiful.
Oh.
'cause that's the other thingabout it too, is looking at a
letter and how someone actually,the physical writing mm-hmm.
And, and their penmanship.
But he had beautiful penmanshipand he would, he was saying
(28:09):
things like, my Darlene, DarleneSweet.
Girl.
Like when it was not even mywife always, you know, and he'd
go through and he'd be like,kiss that child of mine and I'll
see you soon.
And then, and then, you know,don't be talking to other men
while I'm gone.
You know?
He was playful.
Yeah.
And it was this side of themthat I never saw because, you
know, by the time I grew up,they'd been together for so
long.
It was, you know.
(28:30):
everything that goes, 50 plusyears of marriage.
But, um, but it was just, it wassuch a beautiful thing to see
but I do, I think it's such alost art and there is something
so absolutely, so beautifulabout it and for people who do
it.
Yeah.
I loved hearing the AnnePatchett story, because I wanted
to know if as you went throughthis, if in fact you did write
(28:53):
to authors a and I.
And how you decided on who youdecided, like I personally, I,
first of all, I'm like so manypeople obsessed with Anne
Patchett, so I loved that AnnePatchett was one of the, the
authors that she wrote to.
And for our listeners and ourreaders in the book, Sybil is a,
is a big reader and generallywhen she's corresponding with
people is always asking, whatare you reading again?
(29:14):
Which I loved.
But how did you make thedecision on the authors that she
chose to?
write too.
Virginia Evans (29:20):
I would say almost all I went through and
had to make a list of all thebooks that are referenced in the
book, for my team at, at Crown.
And I was sort of looking at thelist and every, almost every
book I would say maybe otherthan.
Three or four.
Every book has meant somethingto me or has been a book that I
(29:44):
loved or hated but really madelike a impact on me.
And I think there are certain, Imean, I think it's okay to like,
mention certain books that arementioned.
Sure.
You know, The Anne Patrickconnection is obvious because it
really changed my life to, tohear from her and then for her
(30:04):
to give me the dignity of anongoing relationship over the
years.
And obviously like she ended upblurbing the book, which I
didn't know about and I didn'tknow she had read it and I
didn't know she was going toread it, read.
So I was really surprised bythat.
In a great, I mean, obviously itwas like the surprise of a
lifetime.
But, you know, certain books,they all pretty much all meant
(30:25):
something to me.
and the ones that really getlike a push to the forefront,
um, like there's, there's aletter late in the book from an
author and, this is just acuriosity point, but I could
only write from the voice ofpeople who are no longer living.
So the only authors that writeback are no longer living.
(30:46):
But they would've been duringthe time of the book, so I
couldn't write in the voice of,you know, CASBO Ishiguro or
something because he's stillliving.
But I was able to write in the oother voices, because they are
not, so that was like a legalitything, which I figured out early
on.
Thanks to my mentor, he told methat.
but the books that really get aprominent position, are books
(31:08):
that really have.
It meant something to me andhave altered my, you know,
really altered my life or mysoul.
And, I won't say what the bookis, but the kind of last book
that's referenced, is a bookthat is, is one of my all time
favorites and all of my all timefavorite books are in are
mentioned in the
Brett Benner (31:28):
God I love that.
So yeah, it's one of them.
As I was sitting in my officethe other day and was just
reading this and sobbing, Ilooked across at my bookshelf
'cause I was thinking about thebooks that she was talking
about.
And there is one of them towardsthe end.
That's a massive tome.
Virginia Evans (31:42):
Mm-hmm.
Brett Benner (31:42):
And, um, I could see it sitting across from me,
which I haven't read it yet.
It did make me look at that, andI was like, I've gotta get on
this.
And that's again, the feelingthat the book kind of evoked for
me because, and it's a testamentto you and your writing of this
character that she feels sofamiliar by the end.
And because of the intimacy ofthe letters, you feel like
(32:05):
you're kind of prying intosomeone's life in a way that's
different than a normalnarrative.
Virginia Evans (32:09):
Mm-hmm.
Brett Benner (32:09):
In a way that's telling you or showing you
something you feel.
so for anyone who loves thewritten word and love stories.
To be getting this ongoing, backand forth about all of these
different kind of books thatshe's recommending or talking
about.
It's like, you know, sittingwith a good friend who says, who
(32:30):
says exactly this?
What are you reading?
What are you loving?
Virginia Evans (32:33):
Mm-hmm.
Brett Benner (32:33):
And it's such like a.
A bonus point.
I haven't seen a finished copyof the book, but I almost want
there to be like, these are allthe books that are referenced in
the end.
Did they do that?
Virginia Evans (32:42):
I just got one.
Brett Benner (32:44):
Oh my God, that's so beautiful.
Yeah, it's beautiful.
Virginia Evans (32:49):
But no, they don't list the books.
But I can send it to you.
Brett Benner (32:52):
But yeah, no, I can certainly go back.
It's easy enough, but Wow.
There's also so much about thisbook, and I don't wanna get into
specifics.
Again, I'm trying to be verygeneral because I think it's
about discovery.
But beyond her, her family andher relationship with her
children, which is a point, andthere, there is a central family
story to all of this because alot of her correspondence,
frankly, is with family members,with her brother, with her, with
(33:13):
her daughter, and her son.
Um, the one thing, the one thingI will say, this is not a
spoiler, but in the book, herkids get her a, a kit to what,
what is called, the KindredProject, which is effectively
23.
And me, um, which I loved this,and she does it.
And what kind of happens aftershe almost reluctantly takes
(33:33):
this test.
So I don't want to get into whathappens because of that.
Have you ever done this?
Did you ever do 23 8?
Okay.
Virginia Evans (33:39):
Well, I've never done it, but I wanted to write
about it.
So I did the free trial.
Brett Benner (33:46):
Okay.
Virginia Evans (33:46):
I did it with Ancestry.
I did like the free trial ofancestry.com.
I didn't do, I didn't take it asfar as she takes it, but I just
dabbled'cause I needed tounderstand how does the
interface work like.
Is there a dashboard?
How does this work?
Yeah, it was amazing.
I wanted to keep going but likebudget cuts in my family, but I,
(34:06):
so I didn't do it, but I mightonce, if this book does well,
maybe I'll come back to
Brett Benner (34:11):
And I don't know how Ancestry works.
Is, is it a similar thing?
Do you have to, I,
Virginia Evans (34:14):
I mean, I kind of based the Kindred project on
my experience with Ancestry.
Yeah.
And I mean, I mean it's fiction.
I mean, I just made up Yeah.
I don't know
Brett Benner (34:22):
how it works.
No, it was very convincing andimmediately it was like, I
hadn't even thought of Ancestry,but I was like, oh my God, this,
this whole thing.
It's, it's fascinating,especially for a woman like that
Yeah.
Who is, is pretty much socontrolled to do something
that's throwing caution to thewind, so to speak.
Yes.
Virginia Evans (34:36):
Yeah.
That aspect of.
engaging with that.
I mean, this book was a.
Joy to write.
I just, I, it was so fun and itwas just wonderful.
other books I've written felthard and like a slog, but this
was not that way, but thataspect, that kind of, that
aspect of her story, which, youknow, a lot of the book kind of
(34:57):
goes back in a way and you learnthe past, but then there's this,
a lot of stuff that's happeningright now in her life when she's
in her seventies.
And that aspect was, is and waskind of the part that I loved.
The most probably.
Brett Benner (35:13):
Yeah.
And it's a fascinating thing Ithink with anybody who's watched
anybody including all of that,just people generally aging.
I've had somebody who is olderis contemplating not only their
past, but dealing with so muchof what's happening in the
present in a world that'schanging so rapidly.
(35:33):
Yeah.
Um, just technologically, justin terms of, the way we talk
about everything, the way wetalk about problems, the way we
talk about, mental health, theway we talk about all of it, is
changed so much and that we'vegiven words and voice to things
that, you know, when people wereyounger, they would never have
(35:53):
had.
Mm-hmm.
The Lexicon so to speak.
Yes.
It's a really interesting thing.
Virginia Evans (35:57):
Yeah, I agree.
And you said earlier that Sybilis.
Evocative to you of yourmother-in-law, which is also
true for me and my mother-in-lawwas like a big inspiration for
someone.
That's what I was gonna ask youis
Brett Benner (36:11):
someone, I
Virginia Evans (36:12):
love her.
I mean, I love her and, and I,it was funny, I I was glad what
you said that you don't think ofher as prickly, because I also
don't think of her as prickly.
I think of her as very directand that's it.
very sort of, of her generation.
Yeah.
And sort of like.
I mean, my mother-in-law wasraised, you know, kind of in a,
(36:33):
without a lot of means, verypractical.
She's the oldest child of fiveand she just, she just, I mean,
she's not the same as Sybil andit's not that they're the same,
but there's some things aboutSybil that I sort of learned
that way of being from mymother-in-law who I love.
And um, and I think to me, whenI have heard people refer to her
(36:57):
as.
Prickly or they were reallyturned off by her at the
beginning.
That's fair.
Everybody, you know, everybody'sallowed to, yeah.
No book is universal.
Um, but I just love that qualityin a, in a woman.
I mean, it's really risky to bethat way now, you know?
And, and certainly Sybil.
(37:18):
Needs to learn and grow.
And there's things that she saysand does that are inappropriate
and wrong.
And, you know, hope in mostcases.
I think she kind of wises up andcan say she's sorry, but there's
just something very authentic tome about women and women at that
age, you know?
(37:38):
Not, it's like expectations inthe world are changing really
fast and sort of what'sappropriate and what you can say
and what you can't say.
And everything's moving reallyfast and, and I, I've always
felt like I can give way forspace to learn, like learn and
grow and, you know.
Yeah.
And so that was, I felt like ifSybil was totally appropriate
(38:01):
all the time, I wouldn't reallybelieve.
I wouldn't really believe.
Brett Benner (38:06):
Well, it would, it would, it would make her soft
and sentimental to me in a waythat wouldn't earn what comes
later.
Mm-hmm.
And so, yeah, and again, like Ithink of the way, it's very much
the same, I think of the way my.
Mother-in-law approacheseverything.
And my mother-in-law is 95.
Hmm.
And she, until she was almost 90years old, would drive from
(38:27):
Pennsylvania to, she had a homeup in Nova Scotia.
No.
And she would drive to PrinceEdward Island over a series of
days visiting friends along theway.
But that kind of spirit iswhat's got her to 95.
Virginia Evans (38:43):
Mm-hmm.
Brett Benner (38:44):
There's been a can do attitude of, you know.
She was never like, well, youwon't, you won't go to the gym.
You, you dig a irrigation ditchin the backyard and you make it
productive.
You know, there was no with,with everything.
That's how she would approacheverything we always used to
joke, I'd say my mother-in-lawwas 85 pounds wet.
And, um, she's this petitelittle, I used to call her Nancy
(39:06):
Reagan.
'cause that's what she remindedme of.
She was extremely well dressedand kept herself together.
And Oh, yes, extremely wellread.
Six o'clock was cocktail hours,seven o'clock was dinner every
night.
And she would make it.
And and so.
Reading all that, I was like,well, Sybil is, is this, and
Virginia Evans (39:23):
they'd be best friends.
Brett Benner (39:24):
Yeah.
And so I guess what I would sayto anyone going into the book,
if they do feel that in thebeginning, have patience because
People are willing to change.
And that's the other beautifulthing about it is one of the
book, one of the things aboutthe books that described it as,
you know, oh this woman's worldexpanding as she increases in
age.
And it absolutely does that.
And that's the other thing Ilove so much.
And um, I'm very aware, again,speaking of owns personal
(39:47):
experience'cause where you comefrom at a book, but watching
like my mother-in-law now atthis point in her life, you
know, and the parallels, um.
I just think there is a beautyin it and there's a beauty and
that Sybil shows us with life isalways continuing and it's
(40:08):
always about discovery and it'salways an adventure and, and
that's I think, such a beautifulmessage of the book, that
nothing necessarily has to stopbecause.
Of one thing.
Mm-hmm.
Or one tragedy or one definingmoment.
Right.
We can keep going.
Virginia Evans (40:24):
Oh, that's really beautiful.
I should write that down.
Brett Benner (40:29):
I will just say for our viewers and our
listeners, I'm, I am reluctantto talk even about some specific
characters in the book because.
Uh, I think kind of the beautyof this book in particular, and
because it's the way it'swritten, is discovering these
characters for yourself andseeing who they are and who they
become.
So I don't really want to getinto that much, so I'm sorry,
(40:49):
but you have to read the book orI've heard, the audio book is
also amazing and it's done witha full cast.
Mm-hmm.
I think you had said you hadstarted to hear some of it and
it was great, right?
Yeah,
Virginia Evans (40:58):
that's right.
Yeah.
I listened to it.
It was, it was amazing and Imean, it's, it's an interesting
experience to hear.
Voices put to voices that haveonly lived inside my body and
head, you know?
Um, but they did such abeautiful job.
And a cast, a cast audiobookexperience is so fun.
Oh my gosh.
Brett Benner (41:16):
Like, it's, it's a variety.
It's incredible.
Who would be the perfect Sybilto you if you could cast anyone?
Virginia Evans (41:21):
Like on screen?
Brett Benner (41:22):
Yeah.
Virginia Evans (41:23):
Okay.
I, my, my absolute, what Ialways saw in my mind was Meryl
Streep.
Brett Benner (41:30):
I exactly it, I almost came on today and said,
so is Meryl Streep option thisyet?
Is there an option for me?
Streep really, I
Virginia Evans (41:34):
mean, that's who I, I, as soon as I even had the
notion of like, if, when I,probably, when I finished
whatever draft was the lastdraft, and I thought, what if
this became a movie?
I mean, of course it probablynot, won't become a movie, but
if it did, and I, and I.
Said in my head, I think MerylStreep, and I went to my husband
and I said, who would it be?
And he said, Meryl Streep.
Brett Benner (41:54):
So it's gotta be, I think you should write a
letter to Meryl Streep andinclude the book.
You know the story about howAnne Patchett had Meryl Streep
read Tom Lake?
Do you know the story?
No,
Virginia Evans (42:07):
I dunno the story.
Please tell me.
Brett Benner (42:09):
Okay.
Okay, so.
I saw am Patchett here in LosAngeles, and Kathy Baker was
moderating.
And so Kathy Baker said to her,um, and I'm gonna try to do my
Little Am Patchett, but shesaid, Kathy Baker said, how, you
know, how did you get MerylStreep to read your book?
And she said, do you want toknow how I got Meryl Streep to
do my book?
(42:29):
I asked Meryl Streep to do mybook, and people were laughing.
And she said, I reached out tomy friend.
Well, I forget if it was StanleyTucci or Emily.
Um, one of the two.
'cause Emily had done Devil WarsPrada.
Oh yeah.
And Stanley.
So she reached out to one ofthem who's, um, I believe who's.
(42:51):
Agent was Meryl Streep's agentor something.
Okay.
And so she sent Meryl Streepthis query, and she said, hi, I
wrote this book.
I thought of you, you know,thought you'd be wonderful to
read it because it's about, um,a mother who's also an actress
and her daughter's an actress.
And, um, and so she said, youknow, Meryl Streep got back to
me almost immediately and said,I'd love to do your book.
(43:12):
And she said, well, do you wannaread it first?
And she said, no, I read otheryour stuff here before I trust
you.
I'm, I'm in.
And she said, so that was that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Virginia Evans (43:19):
How wonderful are people?
I mean, people are just peopleand I love that.
What a great story.
Brett Benner (43:24):
So now with your writing skills and your track
record, and maybe just
Virginia Evans (43:30):
your doers.
Brett Benner (43:30):
Yeah.
And maybe just reference AnnePatchett and just say, my.
My friend Anne, who I regularlywrite to had mentioned I'd heard
of and, uh, yeah, no, I'mserious.
I was like, and like justslipper A PDF and say, what do
you think about this for you?
I mean, listen, everybody needsa good role.
Virginia Evans (43:52):
It can't hurt.
I mean, I, I.
I think she would be brilliant.
I think she, I, I
Brett Benner (43:56):
agree a hundred percent.
Like I was going through thosewomen and I was like, you know,
it could be Glenn Close, butMeryl Streep was the first one I
thought of, but there, butcertainly, um.
What a role.
What a role
Virginia Evans (44:06):
that would really beat all that.
Would really beat all.
Brett Benner (44:09):
Yeah.
Well, Virginia, this has been solovely.
Go out and get thecorrespondent, buy independent
if you can.
But check it out on audio or thebook.
congratulations.
It's, it's just, it's so, sobeautiful.
And, and, and have your tissuesready.
Virginia Evans (44:25):
Yeah.
Thank you so much.
This was so fun.
Brett Benner (44:28):
Thanks.
Thank you again Virginia, and ifyou liked this conversation and
like what you're hearing, pleaseconsider liking and subscribing
to the podcast.
And another thing that wouldreally help me out is to give
the podcast a review with fiveStars.
Every little bit helps, and Ireally appreciate you all
listening, and I will be backlater this week with another
(44:51):
episode of Behind the Stack.
So until then, thanks.
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