February 29, 2024 • 32 mins
Dr. Ralph Ford, chancellor of Penn State Behrend, talks with Dr. Darren Williams, professor of astronomy and astrophysics, and Dr. Mike Rutter, associate professor of statistics, about the April 8 total solar eclipse, which will be visible in totality in Erie.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Ralph Ford (00:00):
I'm Dr. Ralph Ford, Chancellor of Penn State
Behrend and you are listening toBehrend Talks. I have two guests
today. My guests are Dr. DarrenWilliams, Professor of Astronomy
and Astrophysics. And Dr. MikeRutter, Associate Professor of
statistics and I will addastrophysics enthusiast, because
we're going to be talking aboutthe solar eclipse today. And
(00:23):
they've both joined me to talkabout the solar eclipse that
will happen on April 8, forthose who have not been
listening, they have not beenwatching the news. Everyone
should have heard about it bynow. And it should be visible in
totality if the weather holdshere in Erie that day. Anyways,
welcome here, guys.
Dr. Darren Williams (00:39):
Thank you.
Dr. Ralph Ford (00:40):
Well, I'm going to run through your backgrounds.
Just a little bit here. Darrenis known to many because you
hold the very popular open housenights and astronomy here on
campus, where you give talksthat are attended by very many,
and it's a great complement tothe engaging lectures that you
have. You hold a Ph.D. inastronomy and astrophysics from
(01:00):
Penn State University, abachelor's degree in physics
from the University ofPittsburgh, and an associate
degree in physics andmathematics from Jamestown
Community College. Your researchis focused on the climates of
small planets, small planets,and spin orbital dynamics of
planets and moons among othertopics. We could probably spend
(01:21):
a whole discussion on that one.
And Mike holds a Ph.D. infisheries and a master's in
statistics from Michigan StateUniversity, a master's in
applied mathematics from theUniversity of Tulsa, and a
bachelor's in appliedmathematics from the University
of Pittsburgh at Bradford. Yourresearch is centered in
statistics, predictive modelsand quantitative fishery models.
(01:42):
Mike is also the Associate
Dr. Darren Williams (01:45):
Right, so the moon 250,000 miles away,
Director of the School ofScience, and co chair of our new
casts a long, narrow, darkshadow all the time into space.
interdisciplinary science andbusiness major. And we can talk
And occasionally, very rarely,actually, it touches the earth.
about that today as well, too.
Anyways, welcome to the program.
We're counting down to the April8 total solar eclipse it is a
And we just so happen to beright underneath the point that
once in a lifetime event. Fillus in what's a solar you start
it touches on April 8, and theevent doesn't last all day,
(02:06):
with the basics, what's a solareclipse? What's this mean to be
it'll it'll be a couple hoursfor us in Erie from start to
in the path of totality?
finish. But the middle of it iswhat everybody's waiting for
where the moon covers completelythe solar disk. And the
afternoon sky will turn dark isnight for three minutes and 40
(02:28):
seconds, three minutes and 40seconds it will be 100% hotel
and engineering. How far doesthat like go away. So if I drove
30 miles south of here, what I'dbe 100% totality the shadow. For
that day, it changes withdifferent eclipses. But for that
(02:49):
day, the shadow width is about150 miles in diameter. And so
you'd have to travel about 70miles south of here to delete
the shadow. So they won't see itin Pittsburgh. No, they won't.
Okay, so it gets as dark asmidnight. No, along the horizon,
(03:09):
you're actually receiving somelight from the regions of the
atmosphere outside the shadow.
So it won't be pitch black, likeat midnight, but it'll be
overhead will be the darkestright in the middle of the
eclipse. I would compare itmaybe to Twilight conditions,
you'll it'll be dark enough tosee stars. And that's my most
(03:34):
exciting aspect of it. Becausenot only will the will be the
seed the glowing the fluorescingatmosphere of the sun, called
the corona, but away from theSun will see familiar
constellations and planets andthe planets will all be lined
up. So for the first time in mylife, I'll be able to see the
(03:58):
entire solar system arrayedbefore me in the middle of the
afternoon. Wow. Well, you havetelescopes set up. Yes, yes.
Yeah. So we'll have we'll have aseries of filtered telescopes,
mainly pointing at the sun butand so we'll be looking at the
(04:19):
sun for for an hour before anhour afterward. And, and you can
do it safely with a filter on onthe outside of the telescope.
But, you know, when the duringthe three minutes and 40
seconds, we'll be able to seestars and planets without
(04:39):
glasses on her face. And withoutlooking through the telescopes.
Dr. Mike Rutter (04:46):
And the world around us. We'll think it's
going to get dark street lightswill come on. Animals will start
to act like it's getting dark sothey might move and leave them
when they normally do and thenabout four minutes later they'll
discover that oh wait. The sunis coming back out. So it'll be
an interesting afternoon in lotsof ways.
Dr. Ralph Ford (05:02):
I remember we had a partial eclipse here
within the last decade, right?
Dr. Mike Rutter (05:07):
2017
Dr. Ralph Ford (05:09):
2017. And I remember the crickets started
chirping us. Yeah. What otherit'll get cooler?
Yeah, Yeah,
Dr. Darren Williams (05:15):
Yeah, 10 degrees roughly.
Dr. Ralph Ford (05:17):
About 10 degrees. Okay.
Dr. Darren Williams (05:19):
And everyone will be gasping it the
view. We're hoping that it isclear that day. In April in
Erie, the forecast could rangefrom Blizzard conditions to a
rain storm to an 80 degreebright sunny day.
Dr. Ralph Ford (05:36):
So let's assume the worst case assume hopefully,
we're going to get the bestweather. But even if it were bad
weather, right, we'd stillreally you're going to feel that
you won't see the
Dr. Mike Rutter (05:45):
Sure
Dr. Ralph Ford (05:45):
the sky as well.
But you're going to definitelyknow something's going on.
Dr. Darren Williams (05:49):
Yeah, absolutely. I think the street
lights will come on, it will getdark.
Dr. Mike Rutter (05:53):
The worst case scenario is like a storm in
which it becomes dark, becausethere's too many clouds in the
sky. But even if it's just, youknow, if it's just mostly
cloudy, we'll still be able tosee the effects of the eclipse,
we just won't be able to see theactual moon going across the
sun.
Unknown (06:08):
So
Dr. Ralph Ford (06:08):
So how rare is this?
Dr. Darren Williams (06:09):
It's rare.
So within every year, the moon'sshadow touches the earth one to
three times on average. For ifyou ask how what fraction of the
planet does the shadow touch,it's less than, it's less than a
10th of a percent of the planet.
(06:30):
So people are familiar with themoon during a lunar eclipse,
that that tends to be mostpeople's Eclipse experience.
Because when the moon getseclipsed half the planet can see
it. So for now, our planetpopulation is 8 billion. And so
so with a with an eclipsed moon,4 billion people at any one time
(06:52):
can see it. Here, you have tomultiply the population of the
earth by point 1%. And that'sthe fraction of the population
and so it's a very rare eventfor any one person. You have to
either get lucky like we are inErie and wait for that shadow to
touch to come to us, or a lot ofpeople, the Eclipse enthusiast
(07:15):
the travelers, they fly they,they take voyages to place
themselves.
Dr. Ralph Ford (07:21):
I know some who've told me I'm coming to I'm
coming to Erie. I've learnedwhat's going on and
Dr. Mike Rutter (07:26):
It's relatively easy to get to. For North
Americans.
Dr. Ralph Ford (07:30):
Yeah, so the next one if is if I'm correct
2144 So this is more rare thanHalley's Comet.
Dr. Darren Williams (07:38):
Although the one in 2144 Oh, yeah, that's
the right that's that's solarthat x total total solar and for
Erie.
Dr. Ralph Ford (07:47):
I think what Halley's Comet I guess I'm just
using his reference every 76years.
Dr. Darren Williams (07:51):
So it's just this past year, for a few
months ago, it turned aroundHalley's Comet. So it it is now
officially approach headingtoward is heading back. But it
won't be here until 2061 or2062. Well, maybe we'll get to
see.
Dr. Mike Rutter (08:11):
The next the next solar eclipse actually is
going to be August 12. Or that'sthe next total solar eclipse is
going to be August 12, 2026. Butthat's going to be in Iceland,
Spain and Portugal. So in termsof a worldwide audience, that's
gonna be the next time this isgoing to happen on earth, it
just, we're not gonna be able tosee that and
Dr. Ralph Ford (08:27):
I'm talking about Erie won't get it
Dr. Mike Rutter (08:28):
Right, right, right. They kind of do an idea
of how rare event it is. And ithas more to do with where you
are on the earth, rather thanfrequency, because that's the
thing that makes it.
Dr. Ralph Ford (08:38):
Sure. So here comes the really hard question.
How do you predict this withsuch accuracy that, you know,
the next time for example, willbe Erie, Pennsylvania? For Erie,
Pennsylvania is 2144. How do weknow that?
Dr. Mike Rutter (08:50):
Lots and lots of math. I mean, it actually
started out as...
Dr. Ralph Ford (08:54):
You don't have to go through every bit
Dr. Darren Williams (08:55):
Oh, no, it was a fluke.
Dr. Mike Rutter (08:56):
No, I mean, it's actually started, I was
more of a statistics problem,because ancient civilizations
that were really good at takingnotes of things happening, would
start writing down when eclipsesoccurred. This was the Chinese
and the Babylonians in theseventh, eighth century BCE, and
they started noticing there wasa pattern of when these eclipses
would occur. So they were ableto start predicting it just
(09:17):
based upon Oh, approximatelyevery 18 years, which is Dr.
Williams is a Saros Cycle,correct?
Dr. Darren Williams (09:23):
Yes.
Dr. Mike Rutter (09:24):
That these were these eclipses would happen. So
they would notice that the wereoccurring now doesn't guarantee
it's going to occur at the sameexact place. But they were able
to start to figure out thatthese things happen on a
cyclical basis. And so peoplestarted getting a good idea when
it might happen, maybe notexactly where. It wasn't until
the 1820s when a Prussianmathematician, Friedrich Bessel,
(09:44):
create a set of equations thatmuch better allowed us to
predict exactly where and wheneclipses would occur. And so
from that point on, we've beenable to predict it. And then
obviously, with advances incomputers, we've been able to
take into account things likeelevation and the actual the way
that The moon looks and we'remountains are on the moon so we
can predict exactly where theeclipse is going to be. So it's
(10:05):
been the last couple of years,we've been able to predict it
with a lot of accuracy.
Dr. Ralph Ford (10:08):
Makes a lot of sense. We go back to those
ancient civilizations. What didthey think was going on? Did
they understand the physics? Ordid they have superstition
around this? They did, obviouslyfiguring this out. So what did
it mean to that?
Dr. Darren Williams (10:22):
Yeah, they they said it was a, it was a
sign of, of impending doom,plague, disease, starvation,
some climate change, warfare.
Dr. Mike Rutter (10:34):
Maybe they're the gods are upset with a leader
or something along those lines?
Dr. Darren Williams (10:38):
Yeah.
Because they didn't understandit. They couldn't predict it
until just a few 100 years ago.
Dr. Mike Rutter (10:44):
But I think the folks that
Dr. Darren Williams (10:46):
Most people couldn't predict most there were
a few, right, like Archimedes,for example.
Dr. Ralph Ford (10:50):
Those that were scientifically inclined in those
days for what science was, theywould notice, hey, these things
They were the scientists who puttheir life on the line, you
are happening on regular basis.
And, and I think that would bethe start of well, maybe these
aren't related to angry gods.
This is actually somethingthat's occurring in nature.
know, by by going against themodern day, the belief at that
(11:13):
time, and they were heretics.
So, but we come forward totoday, everyone's going to be
celebrating. People are going tobe coming to Erie, Pennsylvania.
Do we have any estimates? What'sgoing to happen? How many do we
know how many people are comingto Erie to see this?
Dr. Mike Rutter (11:27):
If the weather is good, the estimate is going
to be 250,000 people coming tothe Erie County area that day,
so we would double inpopulation? Yes, basically, the
I-79 Corridor south ofPittsburgh, and then on to
Washington, DC, if you look atit from a spatial setting, areas
that closest and easiest placeto get to so if that weather
(11:47):
forecast is good, we're going tobe the place to see it for those
particular people. That's whythey're estimating that number.
Dr. Darren Williams (11:53):
For New York City, they'll just go north
up the Hudson Valley, andthey'll hit the path of totality
near Plattsburgh or Burlington,Vermont. Sure. Or even Rochester
Buffalo area, it's closer thanus.
Dr. Ralph Ford (12:07):
So all the hotels are sold out.
Dr. Mike Rutter (12:10):
They're not sold out. The last time I talked
to visit Erie, however, pricesare incredibly high. So if you
do want to book a spot, youbetter do it now before they get
even higher.
Dr. Ralph Ford (12:19):
So we're having a lot of events here on campus.
Tell us what's happening oncampus that day.
Dr. Darren Williams (12:24):
So at high noon, I'll be speaking in the
the Erie Hall gymnasium. I think1,000 to 1,500 visiting high
schoolers from from Pittsburghis that the other areas outside
Dr. Ralph Ford (12:36):
Now we have they have we've been getting phone
of the path of totality.
calls for the past year, aboutcoming up and coming here to see
it. So we'll be entertainingthose high school students with
that talk.
Dr. Darren Williams (12:47):
Yes, right, right. So that'll occupy us into
Wow. Will we be announcing thatpeople will know this that they
one and then from one to two,we'll all be getting getting
ready getting our glasses readyand attending to the telescopes
over by the soccer field next tothe Junker center. And then by
two o'clock, the moon starts toeat away at the edge of the sun,
all in preparation for the 3 (13:05):
18 total solar eclipse. And that's
when you take your glasses off.
So everybody's gonna have theirglasses, but they can't forget,
well, they'll figure it out.
Because you can't see anythingwith your glasses on except for
the sun. So during the eclipsewhen its totality, just after
the last flicker of sunlightthrough the valleys and
(13:27):
mountains on the edge of themoon, the last flicker, the
glasses come off and then you'reyou're safe to go for three
minutes and 40 seconds.
can do that? Because I'm surethere's a lot of
misunderstanding.
Dr. Mike Rutter (13:42):
We will be we will be describing what's going
on. We'll give an announcementsaying it's safe to take off
your glasses. It'll be tellingyou when it's safe to put your
glasses or when it's importantfor you to put your glasses back
on. And then yeah, we'll bewalking everyone that.
Dr. Darren Williams (13:54):
And the meteorologists from JET TV. Both
of them are scheduled to be hereall afternoon. And they
somebody's going to have amicrophone I'm supposed to do it
play by play while the eclipseis taking place describing what
what I'm seeing I hope I canstill see maybe through the
clouds if there are clouds or orjust identify what can be seen
(14:15):
in the sky.
Dr. Ralph Ford (14:17):
Well, we all know or most people know you
need glasses during thiseclipse. Where do you get them?
Dr. Mike Rutter (14:22):
Well, there's there's gonna be a lot of places
where you can get them. I thinkthe easiest way right now to get
them is to come to a planetariumshow at the Yahn planetarium.
There's a free set of glasseswith every paid admission. There
are shows every Saturday untilthe Eclipse and there are some
weeknight shows as well. Let'scheck the website to see what
that schedule is. I know that alocal business, Country Fair, is
(14:46):
going to be selling glasses orgiving away glasses free with a
with a purchase. Starting Ithink near the about halfway
through March. So that'll be away for Erie areas residents to
get glasses and there will beglasses for people coming up,
VisitErie is going to beoffering glasses at various rest
stops getting closer to Erie, sothere's gonna be lots of
different ways you can get ahold of them. Honestly, the best
(15:08):
way to see that list is to go toVisitErie. And they will have,
they will have a large list ofhow you need glasses for free.
If you go to the Behrend Eclipsewebsite. There are instructions
on how to purchase glasses foryourself and how to get them
from a reputable place and makesure they meet all the
qualifications for safety. Soyou can find that information on
our website.
Dr. Ralph Ford (15:27):
So in addition to the publicly available
glasses, we've actually gotquite a few available here on
campus. And through the supportof some of our generous donors,
notably Greg Yahn, and John andLouise Mangas, Penn State
Behrend is able to purchase50,000 pairs of eclipse glasses
that are being distributedwidely. So tell us a bit about
(15:48):
that.
Dr. Mike Rutter (15:49):
Yeah, so through those generous
donations, we're going to beable to distribute glasses to
every K through 12 students inErie, Crawford, and Warren
County for the Eclipse. Andthanks to actually some
cooperation with MercyhurstUniversity, and Gannon
University, and Penn West, we'vegotten enough now that we're
going to be able to do that forall the faculty and staff at
those institutions as well. Andif you're homeschooled children
(16:13):
or private schools, and if youknow, we have reached out to as
many of those groups as youpossibly can, but if you if
you're not aware that you'regonna be able to get those
glasses, contact the school ofscience office, here at Penn
State Behrend, and we'll makesure we get glasses for those
groups as well.
Dr. Ralph Ford (16:26):
They call you up.
Dr. Mike Rutter (16:28):
Yes, they can email me my email address is
mike@psu.edu. And if you send mean email and give me some
information, we'll reach backout to you and we will make sure
you get those glasses. That'seasy. mike@psu.edu. And the only
Mike that works here, it's nottrue.
Dr. Ralph Ford (16:42):
But it is super important. People have the
glasses. So let's talk about theseriousness of that. And when
and how you wear them. I know,you know, well, but.
Dr. Darren Williams (16:51):
Well the nice thing is, when the slow
parts of the eclipse arehappening, just as the moon
starts taking a piece of this ofthe sun's edge, it starts
covering up a little bit of thesun, around two o'clock, that's
relatively slow. And so verylittle happens between two and
maximum Eclipse. And so that'stime for if you're short on
(17:13):
glasses, if not everyone hasone, you can take yours off,
don't look at the sun, but youcan take yours off and share it
with the person standing next toyou easily enough. And so you
can share your glasses for thathour before totality. And then
when the rapid things happen,when the changes go more
quickly, then everybody hastheir glasses off anyway, and
you don't need them. You don'thave to worry about where are
(17:34):
they? Well, you do have to worryabout who has the glasses at
last call. So that after thethree minutes and 40 seconds,
they go back on.
Dr. Ralph Ford (17:43):
And during the time before the totality and
when you need the glasses, butit's only when I'm looking at
the sun's if I'm just walkingaround, I don't need to do that,
right?
Dr. Mike Rutter (17:53):
No, it's just like normal, you can't, you
don't want to look directly atthe sun. That is totally true up
until totality. So when it'scovered 99%, you should not be
looking directly at the sun. Toview that either through
glasses, or through someindirect method.
Dr. Ralph Ford (18:06):
And the consequences are eye damage.
Dr. Darren Williams (18:09):
Yeah, eye damage or blindness.
Dr. Mike Rutter (18:11):
If you stare at it long enough, yes.
Dr. Ralph Ford (18:13):
Don't take the chance
Dr. Mike Rutter (18:14):
Don't take the chance. And you know,
Dr. Ralph Ford (18:16):
if you have prescription glasses like us,
you just put the others over.
Dr. Mike Rutter (18:20):
Yep, that's all you need to do.
Dr. Darren Williams (18:22):
We recommend we've been
recommending that. Childrenunder the age of five shouldn't
even view the eclips withglasses. There are many indirect
methods, you can look at them tolike a pinhole cardboard box
setup, or you can you canactually hold up a colander. And
you can see that little piecesof the Sun will show up on the
ground multiple times you canwatch the eclips that way. But
(18:44):
getting small children to keepthe glasses on that's you know,
there are other ways.
Dr. Ralph Ford (18:47):
That's little too risky.
Dr. Mike Rutter (18:48):
There's other ways they can do it very safely.
So we highly encourage thosestudents who are the youngest
among us to watch via indirectmethods.
Dr. Ralph Ford (18:55):
So when this is all happening, I'll switch back
to the physics of it. How fastis the moon moving,
Dr. Darren Williams (19:02):
It's traveling around the Earth at
about 2,000 miles per hour. Butwhile it's doing that the earth
is rotating underneath. And soErie we don't feel it said my
mom just a few days ago. Shedoesn't feel the Earth's
rotation but but in Erie thevelocities between 500 and 600
miles an hour around the centerof the earth. And so as the as
(19:24):
the shadow flies overhead at2,000. Then we have this we're
trying to keep up with it withour with rotation of the earth
but we don't. And so the shadowjust comes and goes and it it
spends three minutes and 40seconds in the Erie region
before before leaving. It takesabout an hour and a half to two
once it touches the planet whichhappens somewhere just south of
(19:49):
Mexico. It goes through Mexicoand then into Texas and then
through North America up throughIndianapolis and Cleveland
through Erie, Buffalo, Rochesterand so on. And that whole
timescale is is less than twohours, usually about an hour and
a half from start, where ittouches the planet to when it
(20:10):
leaves the planet.
Dr. Ralph Ford (20:12):
So the, by the way, someone recently asked me,
I don't know why if I knew thecircumference of the earth, and
I do it and they were surprisedwhy would somebody know such a
numbers like 25,000 miles? Yeah,the center. So it's a pretty
easy calculation that it takes24. So the Earth at the center
is about 1000 miles per hour. Soit makes kind of sense. It's
five or 600 miles here and Erie.
Dr. Mike Rutte (20:35):
Congratulations.
Dr. Ralph Ford (20:36):
I thought it was like a pretty pretty common
knowledge actually, for peopleto know that I thought we all
learned that in grade school. Wedid. But a lot. A lot of people
forgot. Yeah, a lot of peopleforget anyways, I'm not bragging
but I just found that was aninteresting conversation. So
it's easy to figure out how fastthe earth is moving. Anyways,
let's talk a little bit thoughabout travel. It's a it's a
(21:00):
mixed message. If you're livingin Erie, you're telling people
to stay home yet we want peopleto visit campus and enjoy the
festivities. So what do yourecommend people do on this day?
Dr. Mike Rutter (21:10):
I've been a big proponent of if you live in Erie
County, the best way to watchthe eclips is from your own
backyard, mainly because youwill have food. And you'll have
plenty of access to bathrooms,no reason to leave the comfort
of your own home to watch it.
There are going to be variousplaces in Erie County, they're
going to be having events. Someof the wineries along along the
Lakeshore are going to haveevents and things like that, but
(21:30):
but you can see the eclipse fromeverywhere. As long as you can
look out southwest directionabout 45 degrees above the
horizon, you should be able tosee the eclipse so there's no
reason to brave the crowds to gowatch it so you can get a great
experience at home.
Dr. Ralph Ford (21:46):
Good plan. A lot of places are closing down
county government. We're nothaving classes here on campus.
Most school districts in the TriCounty area are not having or
having remote classes that dayas well. So there's going to be
a lot of people staying at homewaiting for this to occur.
Great idea. And if they come tocampus here, where do you
recommend they they go to viewyou said
Dr. Darren Williams (22:08):
The soccer field is where is where our
telescopes will be, but but noteveryone wants to cram into this
soccer field. So I you know ifthey're if they're trying to get
to campus, either for that forour talk or for a bathroom or
possibly see through thetelescopes in the soccer field,
station road knowledge Parkwayalong the edges of the road
(22:28):
would be the best staying closeto i 90, or close to the Erie
bay front. So you have to haveplan A, B and C ready to go that
day. If it is closed in the bayfront may be the next best
thing. 38th Street through Eriemight be the next best thing for
a good forecast. And for Sunnyskies, it's going to be crowded
(22:50):
that day.
Dr. Ralph Ford (22:51):
Well all good advice, maybe get there early
and get your spot right and bepatient with traffic
Dr. Mike Rutter (22:57):
the closer you are to the lake slightly longer
totality will be so you know ifneed feels about where it
starts. And that's only about aminute and 20 seconds. And then
as you get closer and closer tothe lake, the longer totality
will be.
Dr. Ralph Ford (23:11):
So astronomy open house will you be having
some between here and the theEclipse and focusing on the
Dr. Darren Williams (23:18):
So there there are a bunch of talks about
Eclipse when completed.
the Eclipse and programs in thePlanetarium but March 20, which
I think is Tuesday. There's apublic talk at the Glasgow
Library downtown in Erie. Andthen you're giving the talk I'm
giving the talk Jim and JimGavdos tag teaming. He's the
(23:39):
planetarium director and he'llhe'll be there as well. And then
April 3 Is the astronomy openhouse here about the eclipses
essentially the same talk aboutthe history and the science of
eclipses. But then that talk atnoon on on April 8. And that'll
be similar talk yet but butmaybe there will be a sense of
(24:00):
enthusiasm for the upcoming whatwe're going to see in the
afternoon.
Dr. Ralph Ford (24:04):
Well, for our listeners, I can say from
firsthand experience, you are agreat lecturer, people should
should go and hear what you haveto say they will they will be
enthralled, right? I want totalk about a few other things.
But before we do, is thereanything else were missing about
the eclips or that you wouldlike people to know about that
day?
Dr. Darren Williams (24:21):
we already mentioned that. We can look at
the sun safely through ourglasses. And then during the
three minutes and 40 seconds, wecan take off our glasses and
stare at the sky and look forstars and stuff like that. But
the other thing that thathappens during an eclipse, when
the sun, when a lot of the sun,maybe 80 or 85% of it gets
covered. So this will happenaround 3 p.m. That day, if you
(24:44):
just look down on the ground,you'll see strange images of the
sun cast through the leavesthrough holes in the leaves. And
I don't know how many leaveswe'll have in April but but also
holes in buildings. Anythingthat can act like a little
pinhole, these images of theeclipse Sun will start to become
(25:08):
more distinct, more welldefined. Now these images are
always made right now in themiddle of the afternoon, it's a
bright sunny day out there,there are images also being
formed. But we don't see themprimarily because there's light
coming not only from the sun,but light coming from
everywhere, and the buildingsfrom everything scattering off
the snow in the sky. But duringan eclipse, the all of the
(25:32):
light, most of the light now isconcentrated coming from one
direction. And that's wherewhere the sunlight is, because
it all works. And the pinhole,and those images become very
distinct and noticeable whenpeople think they're losing
their mind. But but that is thatthere, there are 1000s or
millions of pinhole images caston the ground during an eclipse.
(25:52):
And you should be able to seethose probably within a half
hour 20 minutes of totality.
Dr. Ralph Ford (25:57):
Would it help to walk around with a small piece
of cardboard and with a pin holein there? Absolutely. I think
sounds like a good idea to havehave your own that day there as
well. So let's talk a little bitabout what you both do in your
day jobs, which is your facultymembers here and teach two
different subjects. But let'sstart with you. First, Darren,
talk about astronomy and thecourses you teach and what your
(26:19):
passion is.
Dr. Darren Williams (26:20):
So So I'm an astronomer, and I teach every
semester I teach large astronomyclasses. It's a very popular
topic and and so every semesterstudents asked me, When is your
next astronomy? I'd say well,it's next semester, because I
always, I always teach one ofthose. And my, my professional
mission is to, is to understandthings to the point where I can
(26:44):
explain anything simple enoughso that anybody can understand
it. I always use my mother as anexample. If I can't explain it
to my mom, what good is it? So Ifind ways it both in my mind,
but also on using using computerprograms and, and in research, I
investigates the the physics ofhow planets move, and how
(27:09):
satellites move around theplanets and how they were
formed. And then it is verycomplicated. I'm not gonna lie,
but but it can be understood andexplained simply and the Eclipse
stuff that I'll be talking aboutfor endlessly for the next 49
days until a eclipse day it isif you if you dig into it,
(27:29):
you'll find a complexity whichis, which is beyond most of us,
including myself. But there aresome simple things, some simple
takeaway points, and I'm goingto attempt to explain that to as
many people as possible.
Dr. Ralph Ford (27:41):
Good for you.
Did you know you wanted to studyastronomy when you were a young
kid? Or was this something thatyou grew into? You knew?
Dr. Darren Williams (27:47):
Yes, primarily after watching cosmos
and Carl Sagan, you're here, andI want to do that. And but I
didn't know what that was. Ijust knew it looked cool. And I
wanted to know what he knew, andbe able to explain how he did.
And so he was really myinspiration.
Dr. Ralph Ford (28:07):
And that's all you need is a spark because
these things take lifetimes todevelop expertise. And that's
what people need young kids needto understand that. How about
you, Mike? Statistics, math?
What do you what do you do inyour day job?
Dr. Mike Rutter (28:19):
I teach statistics at a variety of
levels. I teach here directorystatistics to any General Major
to biologists in thebiostatistics class. I teach
upper level statistics courses,and I teach a course in
statistics for clinicalpsychology graduate program here
at Behrend. So I saw lots ofdifferent bases with that so.
Dr. Ralph Ford (28:40):
So widely applicable, and as they say,
liars used statistics and whatknow what is that statement, but
we have.
Dr. Mike Rutter (28:45):
So many lies, damned lies and statistics.
Yeah, anything along thoselines? Yeah, I mean, I, you
know, it's interesting. I lovedphysics when I was in high
school. And as I said, I, I wentto school, I was going to be an
asset, I wanted to be anastrophysicist. And I ran on a
math classes to take. And so Itook a course in mathematical
modeling in biology. And Ilearned that the thing I liked
(29:08):
about physics was that I couldmodel how stuff happened with
math. And then I learned itwasn't just related to physics,
I could do it in biology. And Iwent, wait, that's even more
exciting to me. So I kind ofknew that was going to be my
direction. So learning how tomodel things and using data to
tell stories and and that kindof got me to where I where I am
(29:29):
today and why. Somewhere alongthe line. I changed majors from
math to fisheries, because Iwanted to tell stories about
fish with data. And so that wasthat was a good path for me.
Dr. Ralph Ford (29:39):
So why should somebody study statistics?
Dr. Mike Rutter (29:43):
I think because especially as in these days, we
are surrounded with numbers anddata and and to be able to
figure out what is important andwhat is not so important. And
being able to make gooddecisions based on the data that
you have, I think is an a reallyimportant skill. field it can be
applicable to lots of differentfields.
Dr. Ralph Ford (30:02):
Yeah I think it's so important to, to
understand and have a baseunderstanding. Because if you
think things are alldeterministic and easy to
follow, it really gives you away of thinking about the world
to that I think helps youunderstand the complexity of the
world.
Dr. Mike Rutter (30:15):
And one of the main things about statistics is
being able to deal withuncertainty. And so being able
to quantify uncertainty andbeing able to add handle it as
another important part ofstatistics, I think is really
important.
Dr. Ralph Ford (30:25):
Well, you are also the chair or co-chair of a
relatively new academic programhere on campus known as
interdisciplinary science andbusiness. Can you talk about
what that is?
Dr. Mike Rutter (30:38):
Sure. So the ISB is what we call it for
short, what we're doing is weare training students to work on
the business side of ascientific company. It is a
joint program with the School ofScience in the Black School of
Business, for example, we mighttrain someone to help coordinate
and run the chemistry labs of achemical company. Or maybe
(31:02):
they're doing technical salesfor a pharmaceutical company. We
want to combine that thatscience and business techniques
and skills and so the way thedegree program works is we have
a set, of courses core courses,both science and business. And
then the students that you takea specialty in both. So in
science, it's either labsciences, human health or
quantitative sciences. And thenthey couple that with something
(31:23):
in business from finance, supplychain, or technical sales and
you So you combine one of eachfrom both sides of business, and
that's your kind of customizeyour degree and really focus on
what they're interested in doingand how they might want to apply
that to a scientific company.
Dr. Ralph Ford (31:37):
Sounds like a great program. Anyone who really
wants to understand science, butmake sure that they can go out
there into the business worldsounds like a great fit.
Dr. Mike Rutter (31:48):
Yes, it is. And it's it's modeled very closely
after a very successful andundisciplined businessman
engineering program, verysimilar structure, and we hope
it is as successful as thatprogram has been.
Dr. Ralph Ford (31:57):
Well, gentlemen, it's been a real pleasure today.
I have really enjoyed thisdiscussion and we are all
waiting, you know, April 8 isnot all that far away before we
know it'll be here and gone. Sopeople should not miss it. This
is a once in a lifetimeopportunity. Appreciate your
expertise today. My guests havebeen Dr. Darren Williams and Dr.
Mike Rutter. Gentlemen, thankyou. You have been listening to
(32:21):
Behrend Talks. I am ChancellorRalph Ford.
I'm Dr. Ralph Ford, Chancellor of Penn State
Behrend and you are listening toBehrend Talks. I have two guests
today. My guests are Dr. DarrenWilliams, Professor of Astronomy
and Astrophysics. And Dr. MikeRutter, Associate Professor of
statistics and I will addastrophysics enthusiast, because
we're going to be talking aboutthe solar eclipse today. And
(00:23):
they've both joined me to talkabout the solar eclipse that
will happen on April 8, forthose who have not been
listening, they have not beenwatching the news. Everyone
should have heard about it bynow. And it should be visible in
totality if the weather holdshere in Erie that day. Anyways,
welcome here, guys.
Dr. Darren Williams (00:39):
Thank you.
Dr. Ralph Ford (00:40):
Well, I'm going to run through your backgrounds.
Just a little bit here. Darrenis known to many because you
hold the very popular open housenights and astronomy here on
campus, where you give talksthat are attended by very many,
and it's a great complement tothe engaging lectures that you
have. You hold a Ph.D. inastronomy and astrophysics from
(01:00):
Penn State University, abachelor's degree in physics
from the University ofPittsburgh, and an associate
degree in physics andmathematics from Jamestown
Community College. Your researchis focused on the climates of
small planets, small planets,and spin orbital dynamics of
planets and moons among othertopics. We could probably spend
(01:21):
a whole discussion on that one.
And Mike holds a Ph.D. infisheries and a master's in
statistics from Michigan StateUniversity, a master's in
applied mathematics from theUniversity of Tulsa, and a
bachelor's in appliedmathematics from the University
of Pittsburgh at Bradford. Yourresearch is centered in
statistics, predictive modelsand quantitative fishery models.
(01:42):
Mike is also the Associate
Dr. Darren Williams (01:45):
Right, so the moon 250,000 miles away,
Director of the School ofScience, and co chair of our new
casts a long, narrow, darkshadow all the time into space.
interdisciplinary science andbusiness major. And we can talk
And occasionally, very rarely,actually, it touches the earth.
about that today as well, too.
Anyways, welcome to the program.
We're counting down to the April8 total solar eclipse it is a
And we just so happen to beright underneath the point that
once in a lifetime event. Fillus in what's a solar you start
it touches on April 8, and theevent doesn't last all day,
(02:06):
with the basics, what's a solareclipse? What's this mean to be
it'll it'll be a couple hoursfor us in Erie from start to
in the path of totality?
finish. But the middle of it iswhat everybody's waiting for
where the moon covers completelythe solar disk. And the
afternoon sky will turn dark isnight for three minutes and 40
(02:28):
seconds, three minutes and 40seconds it will be 100% hotel
and engineering. How far doesthat like go away. So if I drove
30 miles south of here, what I'dbe 100% totality the shadow. For
that day, it changes withdifferent eclipses. But for that
(02:49):
day, the shadow width is about150 miles in diameter. And so
you'd have to travel about 70miles south of here to delete
the shadow. So they won't see itin Pittsburgh. No, they won't.
Okay, so it gets as dark asmidnight. No, along the horizon,
(03:09):
you're actually receiving somelight from the regions of the
atmosphere outside the shadow.
So it won't be pitch black, likeat midnight, but it'll be
overhead will be the darkestright in the middle of the
eclipse. I would compare itmaybe to Twilight conditions,
you'll it'll be dark enough tosee stars. And that's my most
(03:34):
exciting aspect of it. Becausenot only will the will be the
seed the glowing the fluorescingatmosphere of the sun, called
the corona, but away from theSun will see familiar
constellations and planets andthe planets will all be lined
up. So for the first time in mylife, I'll be able to see the
(03:58):
entire solar system arrayedbefore me in the middle of the
afternoon. Wow. Well, you havetelescopes set up. Yes, yes.
Yeah. So we'll have we'll have aseries of filtered telescopes,
mainly pointing at the sun butand so we'll be looking at the
(04:19):
sun for for an hour before anhour afterward. And, and you can
do it safely with a filter on onthe outside of the telescope.
But, you know, when the duringthe three minutes and 40
seconds, we'll be able to seestars and planets without
(04:39):
glasses on her face. And withoutlooking through the telescopes.
Dr. Mike Rutter (04:46):
And the world around us. We'll think it's
going to get dark street lightswill come on. Animals will start
to act like it's getting dark sothey might move and leave them
when they normally do and thenabout four minutes later they'll
discover that oh wait. The sunis coming back out. So it'll be
an interesting afternoon in lotsof ways.
Dr. Ralph Ford (05:02):
I remember we had a partial eclipse here
within the last decade, right?
Dr. Mike Rutter (05:07):
2017
Dr. Ralph Ford (05:09):
2017. And I remember the crickets started
chirping us. Yeah. What otherit'll get cooler?
Yeah, Yeah,
Dr. Darren Williams (05:15):
Yeah, 10 degrees roughly.
Dr. Ralph Ford (05:17):
About 10 degrees. Okay.
Dr. Darren Williams (05:19):
And everyone will be gasping it the
view. We're hoping that it isclear that day. In April in
Erie, the forecast could rangefrom Blizzard conditions to a
rain storm to an 80 degreebright sunny day.
Dr. Ralph Ford (05:36):
So let's assume the worst case assume hopefully,
we're going to get the bestweather. But even if it were bad
weather, right, we'd stillreally you're going to feel that
you won't see the
Dr. Mike Rutter (05:45):
Sure
Dr. Ralph Ford (05:45):
the sky as well.
But you're going to definitelyknow something's going on.
Dr. Darren Williams (05:49):
Yeah, absolutely. I think the street
lights will come on, it will getdark.
Dr. Mike Rutter (05:53):
The worst case scenario is like a storm in
which it becomes dark, becausethere's too many clouds in the
sky. But even if it's just, youknow, if it's just mostly
cloudy, we'll still be able tosee the effects of the eclipse,
we just won't be able to see theactual moon going across the
sun.
Unknown (06:08):
So
Dr. Ralph Ford (06:08):
So how rare is this?
Dr. Darren Williams (06:09):
It's rare.
So within every year, the moon'sshadow touches the earth one to
three times on average. For ifyou ask how what fraction of the
planet does the shadow touch,it's less than, it's less than a
10th of a percent of the planet.
(06:30):
So people are familiar with themoon during a lunar eclipse,
that that tends to be mostpeople's Eclipse experience.
Because when the moon getseclipsed half the planet can see
it. So for now, our planetpopulation is 8 billion. And so
so with a with an eclipsed moon,4 billion people at any one time
(06:52):
can see it. Here, you have tomultiply the population of the
earth by point 1%. And that'sthe fraction of the population
and so it's a very rare eventfor any one person. You have to
either get lucky like we are inErie and wait for that shadow to
touch to come to us, or a lot ofpeople, the Eclipse enthusiast
(07:15):
the travelers, they fly they,they take voyages to place
themselves.
Dr. Ralph Ford (07:21):
I know some who've told me I'm coming to I'm
coming to Erie. I've learnedwhat's going on and
Dr. Mike Rutter (07:26):
It's relatively easy to get to. For North
Americans.
Dr. Ralph Ford (07:30):
Yeah, so the next one if is if I'm correct
2144 So this is more rare thanHalley's Comet.
Dr. Darren Williams (07:38):
Although the one in 2144 Oh, yeah, that's
the right that's that's solarthat x total total solar and for
Erie.
Dr. Ralph Ford (07:47):
I think what Halley's Comet I guess I'm just
using his reference every 76years.
Dr. Darren Williams (07:51):
So it's just this past year, for a few
months ago, it turned aroundHalley's Comet. So it it is now
officially approach headingtoward is heading back. But it
won't be here until 2061 or2062. Well, maybe we'll get to
see.
Dr. Mike Rutter (08:11):
The next the next solar eclipse actually is
going to be August 12. Or that'sthe next total solar eclipse is
going to be August 12, 2026. Butthat's going to be in Iceland,
Spain and Portugal. So in termsof a worldwide audience, that's
gonna be the next time this isgoing to happen on earth, it
just, we're not gonna be able tosee that and
Dr. Ralph Ford (08:27):
I'm talking about Erie won't get it
Dr. Mike Rutter (08:28):
Right, right, right. They kind of do an idea
of how rare event it is. And ithas more to do with where you
are on the earth, rather thanfrequency, because that's the
thing that makes it.
Dr. Ralph Ford (08:38):
Sure. So here comes the really hard question.
How do you predict this withsuch accuracy that, you know,
the next time for example, willbe Erie, Pennsylvania? For Erie,
Pennsylvania is 2144. How do weknow that?
Dr. Mike Rutter (08:50):
Lots and lots of math. I mean, it actually
started out as...
Dr. Ralph Ford (08:54):
You don't have to go through every bit
Dr. Darren Williams (08:55):
Oh, no, it was a fluke.
Dr. Mike Rutter (08:56):
No, I mean, it's actually started, I was
more of a statistics problem,because ancient civilizations
that were really good at takingnotes of things happening, would
start writing down when eclipsesoccurred. This was the Chinese
and the Babylonians in theseventh, eighth century BCE, and
they started noticing there wasa pattern of when these eclipses
would occur. So they were ableto start predicting it just
(09:17):
based upon Oh, approximatelyevery 18 years, which is Dr.
Williams is a Saros Cycle,correct?
Dr. Darren Williams (09:23):
Yes.
Dr. Mike Rutter (09:24):
That these were these eclipses would happen. So
they would notice that the wereoccurring now doesn't guarantee
it's going to occur at the sameexact place. But they were able
to start to figure out thatthese things happen on a
cyclical basis. And so peoplestarted getting a good idea when
it might happen, maybe notexactly where. It wasn't until
the 1820s when a Prussianmathematician, Friedrich Bessel,
(09:44):
create a set of equations thatmuch better allowed us to
predict exactly where and wheneclipses would occur. And so
from that point on, we've beenable to predict it. And then
obviously, with advances incomputers, we've been able to
take into account things likeelevation and the actual the way
that The moon looks and we'remountains are on the moon so we
can predict exactly where theeclipse is going to be. So it's
(10:05):
been the last couple of years,we've been able to predict it
with a lot of accuracy.
Dr. Ralph Ford (10:08):
Makes a lot of sense. We go back to those
ancient civilizations. What didthey think was going on? Did
they understand the physics? Ordid they have superstition
around this? They did, obviouslyfiguring this out. So what did
it mean to that?
Dr. Darren Williams (10:22):
Yeah, they they said it was a, it was a
sign of, of impending doom,plague, disease, starvation,
some climate change, warfare.
Dr. Mike Rutter (10:34):
Maybe they're the gods are upset with a leader
or something along those lines?
Dr. Darren Williams (10:38):
Yeah.
Because they didn't understandit. They couldn't predict it
until just a few 100 years ago.
Dr. Mike Rutter (10:44):
But I think the folks that
Dr. Darren Williams (10:46):
Most people couldn't predict most there were
a few, right, like Archimedes,for example.
Dr. Ralph Ford (10:50):
Those that were scientifically inclined in those
days for what science was, theywould notice, hey, these things
They were the scientists who puttheir life on the line, you
are happening on regular basis.
And, and I think that would bethe start of well, maybe these
aren't related to angry gods.
This is actually somethingthat's occurring in nature.
know, by by going against themodern day, the belief at that
(11:13):
time, and they were heretics.
So, but we come forward totoday, everyone's going to be
celebrating. People are going tobe coming to Erie, Pennsylvania.
Do we have any estimates? What'sgoing to happen? How many do we
know how many people are comingto Erie to see this?
Dr. Mike Rutter (11:27):
If the weather is good, the estimate is going
to be 250,000 people coming tothe Erie County area that day,
so we would double inpopulation? Yes, basically, the
I-79 Corridor south ofPittsburgh, and then on to
Washington, DC, if you look atit from a spatial setting, areas
that closest and easiest placeto get to so if that weather
(11:47):
forecast is good, we're going tobe the place to see it for those
particular people. That's whythey're estimating that number.
Dr. Darren Williams (11:53):
For New York City, they'll just go north
up the Hudson Valley, andthey'll hit the path of totality
near Plattsburgh or Burlington,Vermont. Sure. Or even Rochester
Buffalo area, it's closer thanus.
Dr. Ralph Ford (12:07):
So all the hotels are sold out.
Dr. Mike Rutter (12:10):
They're not sold out. The last time I talked
to visit Erie, however, pricesare incredibly high. So if you
do want to book a spot, youbetter do it now before they get
even higher.
Dr. Ralph Ford (12:19):
So we're having a lot of events here on campus.
Tell us what's happening oncampus that day.
Dr. Darren Williams (12:24):
So at high noon, I'll be speaking in the
the Erie Hall gymnasium. I think1,000 to 1,500 visiting high
schoolers from from Pittsburghis that the other areas outside
Dr. Ralph Ford (12:36):
Now we have they have we've been getting phone
of the path of totality.
calls for the past year, aboutcoming up and coming here to see
it. So we'll be entertainingthose high school students with
that talk.
Dr. Darren Williams (12:47):
Yes, right, right. So that'll occupy us into
Wow. Will we be announcing thatpeople will know this that they
one and then from one to two,we'll all be getting getting
ready getting our glasses readyand attending to the telescopes
over by the soccer field next tothe Junker center. And then by
two o'clock, the moon starts toeat away at the edge of the sun,
all in preparation for the 3 (13:05):
18 total solar eclipse. And that's
when you take your glasses off.
So everybody's gonna have theirglasses, but they can't forget,
well, they'll figure it out.
Because you can't see anythingwith your glasses on except for
the sun. So during the eclipsewhen its totality, just after
the last flicker of sunlightthrough the valleys and
(13:27):
mountains on the edge of themoon, the last flicker, the
glasses come off and then you'reyou're safe to go for three
minutes and 40 seconds.
can do that? Because I'm surethere's a lot of
misunderstanding.
Dr. Mike Rutter (13:42):
We will be we will be describing what's going
on. We'll give an announcementsaying it's safe to take off
your glasses. It'll be tellingyou when it's safe to put your
glasses or when it's importantfor you to put your glasses back
on. And then yeah, we'll bewalking everyone that.
Dr. Darren Williams (13:54):
And the meteorologists from JET TV. Both
of them are scheduled to be hereall afternoon. And they
somebody's going to have amicrophone I'm supposed to do it
play by play while the eclipseis taking place describing what
what I'm seeing I hope I canstill see maybe through the
clouds if there are clouds or orjust identify what can be seen
(14:15):
in the sky.
Dr. Ralph Ford (14:17):
Well, we all know or most people know you
need glasses during thiseclipse. Where do you get them?
Dr. Mike Rutter (14:22):
Well, there's there's gonna be a lot of places
where you can get them. I thinkthe easiest way right now to get
them is to come to a planetariumshow at the Yahn planetarium.
There's a free set of glasseswith every paid admission. There
are shows every Saturday untilthe Eclipse and there are some
weeknight shows as well. Let'scheck the website to see what
that schedule is. I know that alocal business, Country Fair, is
(14:46):
going to be selling glasses orgiving away glasses free with a
with a purchase. Starting Ithink near the about halfway
through March. So that'll be away for Erie areas residents to
get glasses and there will beglasses for people coming up,
VisitErie is going to beoffering glasses at various rest
stops getting closer to Erie, sothere's gonna be lots of
different ways you can get ahold of them. Honestly, the best
(15:08):
way to see that list is to go toVisitErie. And they will have,
they will have a large list ofhow you need glasses for free.
If you go to the Behrend Eclipsewebsite. There are instructions
on how to purchase glasses foryourself and how to get them
from a reputable place and makesure they meet all the
qualifications for safety. Soyou can find that information on
our website.
Dr. Ralph Ford (15:27):
So in addition to the publicly available
glasses, we've actually gotquite a few available here on
campus. And through the supportof some of our generous donors,
notably Greg Yahn, and John andLouise Mangas, Penn State
Behrend is able to purchase50,000 pairs of eclipse glasses
that are being distributedwidely. So tell us a bit about
(15:48):
that.
Dr. Mike Rutter (15:49):
Yeah, so through those generous
donations, we're going to beable to distribute glasses to
every K through 12 students inErie, Crawford, and Warren
County for the Eclipse. Andthanks to actually some
cooperation with MercyhurstUniversity, and Gannon
University, and Penn West, we'vegotten enough now that we're
going to be able to do that forall the faculty and staff at
those institutions as well. Andif you're homeschooled children
(16:13):
or private schools, and if youknow, we have reached out to as
many of those groups as youpossibly can, but if you if
you're not aware that you'regonna be able to get those
glasses, contact the school ofscience office, here at Penn
State Behrend, and we'll makesure we get glasses for those
groups as well.
Dr. Ralph Ford (16:26):
They call you up.
Dr. Mike Rutter (16:28):
Yes, they can email me my email address is
mike@psu.edu. And if you send mean email and give me some
information, we'll reach backout to you and we will make sure
you get those glasses. That'seasy. mike@psu.edu. And the only
Mike that works here, it's nottrue.
Dr. Ralph Ford (16:42):
But it is super important. People have the
glasses. So let's talk about theseriousness of that. And when
and how you wear them. I know,you know, well, but.
Dr. Darren Williams (16:51):
Well the nice thing is, when the slow
parts of the eclipse arehappening, just as the moon
starts taking a piece of this ofthe sun's edge, it starts
covering up a little bit of thesun, around two o'clock, that's
relatively slow. And so verylittle happens between two and
maximum Eclipse. And so that'stime for if you're short on
(17:13):
glasses, if not everyone hasone, you can take yours off,
don't look at the sun, but youcan take yours off and share it
with the person standing next toyou easily enough. And so you
can share your glasses for thathour before totality. And then
when the rapid things happen,when the changes go more
quickly, then everybody hastheir glasses off anyway, and
you don't need them. You don'thave to worry about where are
(17:34):
they? Well, you do have to worryabout who has the glasses at
last call. So that after thethree minutes and 40 seconds,
they go back on.
Dr. Ralph Ford (17:43):
And during the time before the totality and
when you need the glasses, butit's only when I'm looking at
the sun's if I'm just walkingaround, I don't need to do that,
right?
Dr. Mike Rutter (17:53):
No, it's just like normal, you can't, you
don't want to look directly atthe sun. That is totally true up
until totality. So when it'scovered 99%, you should not be
looking directly at the sun. Toview that either through
glasses, or through someindirect method.
Dr. Ralph Ford (18:06):
And the consequences are eye damage.
Dr. Darren Williams (18:09):
Yeah, eye damage or blindness.
Dr. Mike Rutter (18:11):
If you stare at it long enough, yes.
Dr. Ralph Ford (18:13):
Don't take the chance
Dr. Mike Rutter (18:14):
Don't take the chance. And you know,
Dr. Ralph Ford (18:16):
if you have prescription glasses like us,
you just put the others over.
Dr. Mike Rutter (18:20):
Yep, that's all you need to do.
Dr. Darren Williams (18:22):
We recommend we've been
recommending that. Childrenunder the age of five shouldn't
even view the eclips withglasses. There are many indirect
methods, you can look at them tolike a pinhole cardboard box
setup, or you can you canactually hold up a colander. And
you can see that little piecesof the Sun will show up on the
ground multiple times you canwatch the eclips that way. But
(18:44):
getting small children to keepthe glasses on that's you know,
there are other ways.
Dr. Ralph Ford (18:47):
That's little too risky.
Dr. Mike Rutter (18:48):
There's other ways they can do it very safely.
So we highly encourage thosestudents who are the youngest
among us to watch via indirectmethods.
Dr. Ralph Ford (18:55):
So when this is all happening, I'll switch back
to the physics of it. How fastis the moon moving,
Dr. Darren Williams (19:02):
It's traveling around the Earth at
about 2,000 miles per hour. Butwhile it's doing that the earth
is rotating underneath. And soErie we don't feel it said my
mom just a few days ago. Shedoesn't feel the Earth's
rotation but but in Erie thevelocities between 500 and 600
miles an hour around the centerof the earth. And so as the as
(19:24):
the shadow flies overhead at2,000. Then we have this we're
trying to keep up with it withour with rotation of the earth
but we don't. And so the shadowjust comes and goes and it it
spends three minutes and 40seconds in the Erie region
before before leaving. It takesabout an hour and a half to two
once it touches the planet whichhappens somewhere just south of
(19:49):
Mexico. It goes through Mexicoand then into Texas and then
through North America up throughIndianapolis and Cleveland
through Erie, Buffalo, Rochesterand so on. And that whole
timescale is is less than twohours, usually about an hour and
a half from start, where ittouches the planet to when it
(20:10):
leaves the planet.
Dr. Ralph Ford (20:12):
So the, by the way, someone recently asked me,
I don't know why if I knew thecircumference of the earth, and
I do it and they were surprisedwhy would somebody know such a
numbers like 25,000 miles? Yeah,the center. So it's a pretty
easy calculation that it takes24. So the Earth at the center
is about 1000 miles per hour. Soit makes kind of sense. It's
five or 600 miles here and Erie.
Dr. Mike Rutte (20:35):
Congratulations.
Dr. Ralph Ford (20:36):
I thought it was like a pretty pretty common
knowledge actually, for peopleto know that I thought we all
learned that in grade school. Wedid. But a lot. A lot of people
forgot. Yeah, a lot of peopleforget anyways, I'm not bragging
but I just found that was aninteresting conversation. So
it's easy to figure out how fastthe earth is moving. Anyways,
let's talk a little bit thoughabout travel. It's a it's a
(21:00):
mixed message. If you're livingin Erie, you're telling people
to stay home yet we want peopleto visit campus and enjoy the
festivities. So what do yourecommend people do on this day?
Dr. Mike Rutter (21:10):
I've been a big proponent of if you live in Erie
County, the best way to watchthe eclips is from your own
backyard, mainly because youwill have food. And you'll have
plenty of access to bathrooms,no reason to leave the comfort
of your own home to watch it.
There are going to be variousplaces in Erie County, they're
going to be having events. Someof the wineries along along the
Lakeshore are going to haveevents and things like that, but
(21:30):
but you can see the eclipse fromeverywhere. As long as you can
look out southwest directionabout 45 degrees above the
horizon, you should be able tosee the eclipse so there's no
reason to brave the crowds to gowatch it so you can get a great
experience at home.
Dr. Ralph Ford (21:46):
Good plan. A lot of places are closing down
county government. We're nothaving classes here on campus.
Most school districts in the TriCounty area are not having or
having remote classes that dayas well. So there's going to be
a lot of people staying at homewaiting for this to occur.
Great idea. And if they come tocampus here, where do you
recommend they they go to viewyou said
Dr. Darren Williams (22:08):
The soccer field is where is where our
telescopes will be, but but noteveryone wants to cram into this
soccer field. So I you know ifthey're if they're trying to get
to campus, either for that forour talk or for a bathroom or
possibly see through thetelescopes in the soccer field,
station road knowledge Parkwayalong the edges of the road
(22:28):
would be the best staying closeto i 90, or close to the Erie
bay front. So you have to haveplan A, B and C ready to go that
day. If it is closed in the bayfront may be the next best
thing. 38th Street through Eriemight be the next best thing for
a good forecast. And for Sunnyskies, it's going to be crowded
(22:50):
that day.
Dr. Ralph Ford (22:51):
Well all good advice, maybe get there early
and get your spot right and bepatient with traffic
Dr. Mike Rutter (22:57):
the closer you are to the lake slightly longer
totality will be so you know ifneed feels about where it
starts. And that's only about aminute and 20 seconds. And then
as you get closer and closer tothe lake, the longer totality
will be.
Dr. Ralph Ford (23:11):
So astronomy open house will you be having
some between here and the theEclipse and focusing on the
Dr. Darren Williams (23:18):
So there there are a bunch of talks about
Eclipse when completed.
the Eclipse and programs in thePlanetarium but March 20, which
I think is Tuesday. There's apublic talk at the Glasgow
Library downtown in Erie. Andthen you're giving the talk I'm
giving the talk Jim and JimGavdos tag teaming. He's the
(23:39):
planetarium director and he'llhe'll be there as well. And then
April 3 Is the astronomy openhouse here about the eclipses
essentially the same talk aboutthe history and the science of
eclipses. But then that talk atnoon on on April 8. And that'll
be similar talk yet but butmaybe there will be a sense of
(24:00):
enthusiasm for the upcoming whatwe're going to see in the
afternoon.
Dr. Ralph Ford (24:04):
Well, for our listeners, I can say from
firsthand experience, you are agreat lecturer, people should
should go and hear what you haveto say they will they will be
enthralled, right? I want totalk about a few other things.
But before we do, is thereanything else were missing about
the eclips or that you wouldlike people to know about that
day?
Dr. Darren Williams (24:21):
we already mentioned that. We can look at
the sun safely through ourglasses. And then during the
three minutes and 40 seconds, wecan take off our glasses and
stare at the sky and look forstars and stuff like that. But
the other thing that thathappens during an eclipse, when
the sun, when a lot of the sun,maybe 80 or 85% of it gets
covered. So this will happenaround 3 p.m. That day, if you
(24:44):
just look down on the ground,you'll see strange images of the
sun cast through the leavesthrough holes in the leaves. And
I don't know how many leaveswe'll have in April but but also
holes in buildings. Anythingthat can act like a little
pinhole, these images of theeclipse Sun will start to become
(25:08):
more distinct, more welldefined. Now these images are
always made right now in themiddle of the afternoon, it's a
bright sunny day out there,there are images also being
formed. But we don't see themprimarily because there's light
coming not only from the sun,but light coming from
everywhere, and the buildingsfrom everything scattering off
the snow in the sky. But duringan eclipse, the all of the
(25:32):
light, most of the light now isconcentrated coming from one
direction. And that's wherewhere the sunlight is, because
it all works. And the pinhole,and those images become very
distinct and noticeable whenpeople think they're losing
their mind. But but that is thatthere, there are 1000s or
millions of pinhole images caston the ground during an eclipse.
(25:52):
And you should be able to seethose probably within a half
hour 20 minutes of totality.
Dr. Ralph Ford (25:57):
Would it help to walk around with a small piece
of cardboard and with a pin holein there? Absolutely. I think
sounds like a good idea to havehave your own that day there as
well. So let's talk a little bitabout what you both do in your
day jobs, which is your facultymembers here and teach two
different subjects. But let'sstart with you. First, Darren,
talk about astronomy and thecourses you teach and what your
(26:19):
passion is.
Dr. Darren Williams (26:20):
So So I'm an astronomer, and I teach every
semester I teach large astronomyclasses. It's a very popular
topic and and so every semesterstudents asked me, When is your
next astronomy? I'd say well,it's next semester, because I
always, I always teach one ofthose. And my, my professional
mission is to, is to understandthings to the point where I can
(26:44):
explain anything simple enoughso that anybody can understand
it. I always use my mother as anexample. If I can't explain it
to my mom, what good is it? So Ifind ways it both in my mind,
but also on using using computerprograms and, and in research, I
investigates the the physics ofhow planets move, and how
(27:09):
satellites move around theplanets and how they were
formed. And then it is verycomplicated. I'm not gonna lie,
but but it can be understood andexplained simply and the Eclipse
stuff that I'll be talking aboutfor endlessly for the next 49
days until a eclipse day it isif you if you dig into it,
(27:29):
you'll find a complexity whichis, which is beyond most of us,
including myself. But there aresome simple things, some simple
takeaway points, and I'm goingto attempt to explain that to as
many people as possible.
Dr. Ralph Ford (27:41):
Good for you.
Did you know you wanted to studyastronomy when you were a young
kid? Or was this something thatyou grew into? You knew?
Dr. Darren Williams (27:47):
Yes, primarily after watching cosmos
and Carl Sagan, you're here, andI want to do that. And but I
didn't know what that was. Ijust knew it looked cool. And I
wanted to know what he knew, andbe able to explain how he did.
And so he was really myinspiration.
Dr. Ralph Ford (28:07):
And that's all you need is a spark because
these things take lifetimes todevelop expertise. And that's
what people need young kids needto understand that. How about
you, Mike? Statistics, math?
What do you what do you do inyour day job?
Dr. Mike Rutter (28:19):
I teach statistics at a variety of
levels. I teach here directorystatistics to any General Major
to biologists in thebiostatistics class. I teach
upper level statistics courses,and I teach a course in
statistics for clinicalpsychology graduate program here
at Behrend. So I saw lots ofdifferent bases with that so.
Dr. Ralph Ford (28:40):
So widely applicable, and as they say,
liars used statistics and whatknow what is that statement, but
we have.
Dr. Mike Rutter (28:45):
So many lies, damned lies and statistics.
Yeah, anything along thoselines? Yeah, I mean, I, you
know, it's interesting. I lovedphysics when I was in high
school. And as I said, I, I wentto school, I was going to be an
asset, I wanted to be anastrophysicist. And I ran on a
math classes to take. And so Itook a course in mathematical
modeling in biology. And Ilearned that the thing I liked
(29:08):
about physics was that I couldmodel how stuff happened with
math. And then I learned itwasn't just related to physics,
I could do it in biology. And Iwent, wait, that's even more
exciting to me. So I kind ofknew that was going to be my
direction. So learning how tomodel things and using data to
tell stories and and that kindof got me to where I where I am
(29:29):
today and why. Somewhere alongthe line. I changed majors from
math to fisheries, because Iwanted to tell stories about
fish with data. And so that wasthat was a good path for me.
Dr. Ralph Ford (29:39):
So why should somebody study statistics?
Dr. Mike Rutter (29:43):
I think because especially as in these days, we
are surrounded with numbers anddata and and to be able to
figure out what is important andwhat is not so important. And
being able to make gooddecisions based on the data that
you have, I think is an a reallyimportant skill. field it can be
applicable to lots of differentfields.
Dr. Ralph Ford (30:02):
Yeah I think it's so important to, to
understand and have a baseunderstanding. Because if you
think things are alldeterministic and easy to
follow, it really gives you away of thinking about the world
to that I think helps youunderstand the complexity of the
world.
Dr. Mike Rutter (30:15):
And one of the main things about statistics is
being able to deal withuncertainty. And so being able
to quantify uncertainty andbeing able to add handle it as
another important part ofstatistics, I think is really
important.
Dr. Ralph Ford (30:25):
Well, you are also the chair or co-chair of a
relatively new academic programhere on campus known as
interdisciplinary science andbusiness. Can you talk about
what that is?
Dr. Mike Rutter (30:38):
Sure. So the ISB is what we call it for
short, what we're doing is weare training students to work on
the business side of ascientific company. It is a
joint program with the School ofScience in the Black School of
Business, for example, we mighttrain someone to help coordinate
and run the chemistry labs of achemical company. Or maybe
(31:02):
they're doing technical salesfor a pharmaceutical company. We
want to combine that thatscience and business techniques
and skills and so the way thedegree program works is we have
a set, of courses core courses,both science and business. And
then the students that you takea specialty in both. So in
science, it's either labsciences, human health or
quantitative sciences. And thenthey couple that with something
(31:23):
in business from finance, supplychain, or technical sales and
you So you combine one of eachfrom both sides of business, and
that's your kind of customizeyour degree and really focus on
what they're interested in doingand how they might want to apply
that to a scientific company.
Dr. Ralph Ford (31:37):
Sounds like a great program. Anyone who really
wants to understand science, butmake sure that they can go out
there into the business worldsounds like a great fit.
Dr. Mike Rutter (31:48):
Yes, it is. And it's it's modeled very closely
after a very successful andundisciplined businessman
engineering program, verysimilar structure, and we hope
it is as successful as thatprogram has been.
Dr. Ralph Ford (31:57):
Well, gentlemen, it's been a real pleasure today.
I have really enjoyed thisdiscussion and we are all
waiting, you know, April 8 isnot all that far away before we
know it'll be here and gone. Sopeople should not miss it. This
is a once in a lifetimeopportunity. Appreciate your
expertise today. My guests havebeen Dr. Darren Williams and Dr.
Mike Rutter. Gentlemen, thankyou. You have been listening to
(32:21):
Behrend Talks. I am ChancellorRalph Ford.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!