#237 - Authenticity in Marketing with Vivian Kaye of KinkyCurlyYaki - Being Boss with Emily + Kathleen

Episode Transcript
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Emily Thompson (00:02):
I'm Emily Thompson.

Kathleen Shannon (00:04):
And I'm Kathleen Shannon.

And this is being boss. In this episode of
being boss, Kathleen and I arerecording live surrounded
virtually with our community ofcreative business owners for the
beam boss conference.

What's up bosses, we are so excited to be
here.

So excited. So this is actually day three. So
this is actually our lastsession last like official
session, we do have a socialzoom social this evening is
their last official session. Andthe theme of this conference has
been making time to shine, whichwe chose because it brought
together two of the biggeststruggles that so many of you

(00:48):
face as creatives and asentrepreneurs, both time white
management pulled off, both timemanagement and marketing, about
the time that I was coming upwithin saddling on that theme,
which was a direct result of thelistener survey that we did pass
on this past summer. So if youever seen those coming through
your inbox or on social go fillthat out because they actually

(01:12):
use that data. But about thattime I decided to sit down in a
webinar that was hosted byShopify, about preparing your e
commerce business for theholiday season. So I show up for
this webinar. And I foundtoday's guest is the host of
that webinar. She was thisvibrant, enthusiastic business

(01:33):
owner with a massivepersonality, some mad business
chops and a story that I foundinspiring. And about halfway
through the webinar, I hadsufficiently online stalked her
as much as I could. And I knewthat I could not do a conference
about shining without havingtoday's guest be Vivian KV. nk

(01:56):
is a 14 year veteranentrepreneur who has
bootstrapped two companies fromthe ground up. For the last
seven years she has strictlyfocused on the e commerce world
where she built Kinky Curlyyackey, which offers textured
hair extensions for black womanto over 1 million in annual
revenue. Vivian has beenfeatured on Shopify expert

(02:19):
Academy series, Ted conferences,the way we work, and has been
featured in digital publicationssuch as black enterprise, Ebony
Magazine and refinery 29. VivianWelcome to being boss.

Thank you for having me. It's such a pleasure
to be here. Vivian, we've gottento know you a little bit over
the past couple of days, you'vepopped in on some of our
sessions, you've been offeringus so much guidance and
radiance, and your smarts andall of the things. So now I'm

(02:51):
dying to hear your story likecan you like, Can we let's
rewind a little bit. And we'regonna get into all of the wisdom
that you have to share. But Iwant to know more about your
entrepreneurial journey. So tellus like, where did it begin? How
did you get to where you are nowbeing on Ted and refinery 29

(03:12):
this morning, I saw on yourInstagram, you're on somebody's
vision board, like talk aboutgoals. How did you get there?

Vivian Kaye (03:19):
You know, honestly, I really don't know. Because
it's not like being anentrepreneur was a big thing.
Right? So, you know, back when Iwas growing up being an
entrepreneur was for people whodidn't have jobs. And so I kept,
you know, I was always in jobswhere I was the one person
department, one person marketingdepartment. And then, you know,

(03:40):
I was at a job one day anddecided to start side hustling.
So I started out my firstbusiness as a side hustle. And
then while I was running thatside, hustle, I got fired for
Sorry, I got laid off. I gotlaid off from that job. And then
at that point, I said, You knowwhat, let me just let me just go

(04:01):
for it. Let me just go for itand do whatever I need to do.
Because I'm young, I'm free. Andyou know, I can I can do
whatever I want. And while I wasrunning that business, I started
running. And then I had Istarted a side hustle with
kinky, curly Yaki. So it waslike I had two businesses
running at the same time. So itwasn't something that I set out
to do. But with both businesses,I set out to solve my own

(04:22):
problem. And at the time, Ididn't realize that that was the
best way to start a business.
But that's what it was I set outto start to solve my own
problem, or to solve a painpoint that I felt people were
having. So so that's how myentrepreneurial journey began.

What was the first side hustle?

The first side hustle, I was a wedding
decorator. So all I would do wasgo in and decorate people's
wedding. So instead of being anevent planner, like doing, you
know, doing all those littlethings, I focused on one thing,
and what it was was I decided sothere's a whole story behind
that. So I'm one of four girls,and I'm the second. I'm the

(05:03):
number two. So my older one wasgetting there and my oldest
sister was getting married. Andshe hired a decorator who, who
said she would decorate thewedding for, say, $1,000. Right?
So she paid her deposit,everything was good. But two
weeks before the wedding, shecame back and said, I need
another $1,000, but didn't havea reason why. Right? So I
thought, well, you know, ofcourse, she couldn't have paid

(05:25):
for she couldn't afford to payher. So she end up having to
hire a different decorator. Andthat decorator did a craptastic
job. And so then I'm like, man,why is it so difficult? Why
can't decorators just say thatthey're going to do x y, Zed.
And this is what it costs. Andthat's what they do. And keep it
simple. So then I thought, well,I'm just gonna, I've always been

(05:47):
into decor, and HGTV, and notwhen TLC used to be more home
decor than reality. So I would.
So I started, I decided I wantedto be a wedding decorator, I
wanted to create weddings thatwere simple, but fabulous. So I
would ask My Brides like, okay,so do you remember the last
wedding that you went to? Andthey would say, Yes, I was like,
Well, do you remember thecenterpieces or the decor,

(06:08):
they're like, I remember it waspretty, I'm like, that's what
we're going to do. So instead ofspending, you know, mortgage
down payments on decor, why notcreate something that is
memorable, but affordable, andpeople will just remember it was
pretty, and that's it. So that'swhat I set out to do. And it was
a it was a great success. Andthis was a business that I

(06:30):
started with no prior knowledge,like, I just figured it out as I
was going along.

And so I can tell that you're a branding
lover at heart, because you'relike, forget pretty I want
memorable. And I think this isgoing to be a thread that we
weave through all of yourstories. But before we get to
connecting those thoughts, Iwant to hear more about kinky,
curly, yucky. So what was whatwas the problem that that was

(06:58):
solving? And how did well I, I'mthe worst at doing this. I
always do this, I always ask twoquestions in a row. So question
one is more about kinky, curlyyaquis. What problem did that
solve? And then I'm reallycurious to hear a little bit
more about how I do think thatwhenever we have side hustles,
and even day jobs, and we'retrying on a bunch of different

(07:19):
things, they all start to tietogether in some ways. Like we
are always learning lessons fromone thing to the next. So I'm
also really curious to hear whatlessons did you learn from
wedding decorating that you'reable to take to kinky, curly
Yaki?

That's a great question. Okay, so the first
question was, how can youcurrently act even started when
I was about problems? So theproblem was, I was a wedding
decorator and so I'm, I actuallylive in Toronto, so it's one of
the most toronto canada and it'sone of the most diverse cities
in the world. So I was doingeveryone's wedding from you

(07:56):
know, the the Muslims to SouthAsian to Indian to everyone, I
was doing everyone's wedding. Sothis is going to be a bit. I'll
explain if anyone really wantsto know the real detailed
answer. I could always do thatat a later point. But for black
women, we have to present wehave to show up in the world in
a certain way, which is quoteunquote presentable. So most, a

(08:20):
lot of times wearing our hair asit is naturally, with kinky,
curly, with like, you know, withkinky hair. It's not
professional, quote, unquote,professional. So I wanted
something that looked like myhair, but would protect my hair
because our hair is not suitedto this North American
environment. It's it, there'snot moisture, it dries out

(08:42):
really quickly. But anyways, Iwanted something that looked
like my hair. And no one wouldask me where I bought it,
because I didn't want that wholeNicki Minaj 32 inches of blonde
weed down to my but I wantedsomething that looks
presentable. So I searched andsearched and searched for
something that looked like myhair. And then when I found it,
I went to a meet up, you know,it's just like a general

(09:04):
networking event. And anotherblack woman came to me and said,
Who is your hairdresser? Andwhat is your regimen for keeping
your hair like that? And I said,girl, this is a weave. And she
was like, I would buy that. Andthis was in this was in 2011. So
I thought, well, if she wouldbuy it, and I bought it, there's

(09:27):
got to be at least a dozen otherwomen who would buy it to now
when I was looking to solve myproblem I saw like I saw the gap
in the market. I thought thereare no companies just selling
kinky hair. But I was alreadyrunning the successful decor
business. I was buying my coachbags, I was going on vacation, I
was happy with that. And then Idecided then I thought well, you

(09:50):
know, you know weddings have adown season. So I was like, You
know what, I can't like it. Itkept pitching the back of my
brain. So then I said to myself,you know what in the Down season
of what Vivian's the core, I'mgoing to launch this company and
I've literally made up the namewhile I was in the shower. Like
I was like Kinky Curly Jackie.
Oh, okay. And I bought a domainname. And I launched it in

(10:11):
December of 2012. And itimmediately took off.

Okay, so I actually do want to hear the
details about the actual hair.
If you don't mind, no, noworries, because Okay, so I
remember talking to Emily in theearly days of Almanac Supply
Company, which is her business,and she was trying to find very
specific candle containers topour her candles into, and we
talked about some deep googling,like, how you just have to

(10:38):
search and like, get really goodat searching. So how did you?
Well, I guess my two questionsare, it was a weave, but it
looks natural. So I think thisgoes back to that almost that
branding conversation of like,it doesn't have to look quote
unquote, professional, let'smake it memorable. Like, let's
just make it bigger. Let's makeit more of a statement, which I

(10:59):
think is so cool. So I guess Ihave two questions here. One,
how did you find the naturalhair? If there was that gap in
the market? How did you find aweave that had the natural
texture? And then and that mightbe giving away too much of your
secret sauce? Like, you mightnot have to answer that one. But
like, how do you how do you findthe materials? And then I guess

(11:20):
my next question is, how did youstart to then scale and expound
upon that not having anyexperience in that industry?

So how we sold the key was that I was trying to
solve my own problem. So what Iwas doing is I would I was doing
that deep googling, I was inFacebook groups, I was on hair
care, black hair care forums,just you know, just talking with
other people. And people. Ofcourse, at that time, a lot of

(11:55):
people were sharing, okay, well,I bought this here. I bought
that there. And so then I would,of course, make note of that.
Because again, at the time, Iwas not looking to start another
business, I was just looking tosolve my own problem. So I
wrote, you know, I would contactevery single factor every single
manufacturer, every singlewebsite that said that they
would do kinky hair. And thenonce I found the one, I was
like, wow, this actually ispretty decent. I would ask them

(12:16):
to tweak it a little bit just tosuit my needs. And they did it.
And I was like, Huh, okay, andthen I thought, Well, after the
girl confirmed my idea, Idecided, Okay, well, let me see
if the same factory can still doit. And I would order the same
product under different names,and ask them to do different
things to it, and they would doit. So I thought, okay, okay,

(12:37):
I'm onto something here. And sothat's how, that's how I was
able to, I guess perfect theproduct, because again, I like
to say I get high on my ownsupply. So that's the beauty of
the business is that I am my owncustomer. I know what I'm
looking for, I know whatproblems I'm looking to solve. I
know what my pain points wouldbe and what other black women's

(12:59):
pain points would be. And theonly person who's able to
address that is me. So of courseI use that to my advantage, you
know, to tell my brand story.
But at the time again, I listen,I'm an immigrant. I'm a college
dropout, and I'm now a singlemother. So I had no clue about
all these, you know,storytelling and branding merch,

(13:22):
I had no clue. I just thoughtthat what I was just doing what
came what came naturally to me.
So, so how I scaled thatbusiness? Well, I think one of
the mistakes that a lot ofpeople are making in starting
businesses is that they don'thave an audience for the product
that they have. And so then whatI had done again, I had

(13:44):
inadvertently created anaudience by part by being on
those facebook, facebook forums,or Facebook groups that have
black haircare forums because Iwas shining and just being
Vivian online people rememberedme. So then the funny thing was,
what i when i when the businesslaunched, no one knew it was me.

(14:05):
I didn't It's not like I wasn'tmy face wasn't the face of the
brand. It was just like, here'ssome products, you guys will
love it. Oh my gosh, and peoplebought it. But what happened
was, I was in a Facebook group.
And someone I didn't do the whois on the back end of my
website, I do the Whois privacyon the back end of my product.
Someone in one of the Facebookgroups created a fake Facebook

(14:27):
profile and posted all myinformation in those Facebook
groups saying this is the personwho owns that brand. So what she
meant to to like to help me tomake me fail actually was what
turned my like was is whatactually skyrocketed my business

(14:48):
because once people found outthat I was the person behind
that brand they were like, wellshoot I'm gonna I must support
her because she's this she'sthat I remember She's great,
she's awesome. And that's whattook off. So I realized then
that my brand, my person, likewho I am, is what is going to
help me succeed in business.

Amen. I, I resonate so much with what
you're saying. And I have abranding agency as well and
really focus on personalbranding. And I, I feel like one
a lot of people always tell you,you need to identify your
customer and what they need. ButI always think it really does

(15:32):
start with you, if you can startwith what you need and what you
like, you can trust that we'renot all that different. And that
if you can just get specificabout yourself, you're going to
be getting specific about yourdream customer. So we are so
aligned there. And then the factthat I mean, it was an
unfortunate and you know, reallyinappropriate way to learn the

(15:54):
power of personal branding, butyou did learn the power of
personal branding. So that isincredibly exciting. And I we're
gonna dig into more about like,how you leverage that and who
you are and what you do, and howyou bring it into your business
and draw boundaries and all ofthe things. But

we do have an attendee question that I want to
slide in here, if we may. Andthis question is from Meredith
and I think especially forcreatives, who is, you know,
most of our crowd here, then we,I'd like to hear your hear your
thoughts on this. So here's yourquestion. Um, so Vivian said she

(16:35):
had the hair problem herself andchose to solve it. But what kept
her on that path, instead ofending up as an all purpose,
beauty guru or similar.

You know, to be honest, hair is not my jam. Um,
so really what I, how I think ofit is just the ends to a means
way or a means to an end. It'sthe means to an end. So my real
goal is to give black womenconfidence to show up as they
are in the world. So hair justso happens to be the means to

(17:08):
that end. So how I just stick tohair, you know, I'm pretty I'm
pretty good at focusing on theone thing, like it's got what
I've learned is, you know,niche, and that's my I will
preach about I say niche, butit's niche,

you know what, it's either we can use them
interchangeably.

Potato potahto.
Okay. So with Nish, I find thatif you speak to a very specific
group of people, and you sellthem a very specific product,
they will be your most loyalfans, they are cheaper to market
to they are, you know, you knowmore about them, especially when

(17:48):
you already are them. So for me,that makes it very easy to stick
to that one thing, because Iknow that very well. And I can
speak to it. Now let's just sayif I started venturing into I
don't know, say makeup girl, Idon't even know how to put on
eyeshadow, right. So itwouldn't, it wouldn't I wouldn't
have that authentic voice. Ican't lend that authenticity to
that product. But what I do knowis hair. I'm not a hairdresser.

(18:12):
I'm not a hairstylist, but I hadbecause I had a passion for
solving my own problem. So thatI could show up as quote
unquote, professional in theworld. I can solve that I know
what looks professional for me.
And if you know I learned if youdon't like it, that's your
problem, not mine. Right? So weas a black women were what
started in 2000, I want to sayin 2011 2012 is that YouTube, we

(18:37):
started all jumping on YouTubeand teaching each other how to
care for our hair, we stoppedputting because before we used
to put chemicals in our hair inorder to straighten it to look
to fit that European standard ofbeauty. But then we were like,
you know what, I'm tired of thatcrap, we're tired of that. We
don't want that. That's not howwe're the hair grows out of our
heads. You're either going toaccept this as we are or not.

(18:59):
Right? So um, so the goal of, ofmaking black women confident and
how they show up in the world isreally what keeps me focused on
here. There's other people and Irealized I'm really good at
that. So if I just thought ifyou just focus on the one thing,
that one goal, you're Why thenyou're able you're not going to
get distracted by all the shinymirror all the shiny objects

(19:22):
that are floating around becauseyeah, I could make some easy
money doing makeup, but I'm notpassionate about that. That's I
don't, that doesn't that's notmy jam.

I love that what you did was instead of doing the
shreds or what people may haveexpected, you just stuck with a
thing. I think oftentimes peoplein this crowd see either see
someone who have sort ofdiverged from that path or so
they're thinking okay, I should,I should diversify as well or
they, you know, sort of getthese little inklings of like

(19:50):
going to different things. Ilove that what you've done is
just focused, you focused ondoing the one thing amazingly
well,

exactly. And that's, and that's the one like
if I had to give one point pieceof advice to anyone is do that
one thing and do it really wellbefore you move on to anything
else. Because, you know, doingthat one thing really, really,
really, really, really we reallyI know I'm really, really,
really emphasizing that really,you do that one thing really
well guess what, you can doanything, you can apply that

(20:19):
same. So that's what I learnedin Vivian's decor. I learned
that if I kept it simple, and Ijust focused on providing My
Brides with this one product anddo it really well, it would
speak for itself. So I took thatsame simple yet fabulous, and I
applied it to kinky, curly Aki.
So people are like, oh, what'skinky? I'll explain the name so
kinky, curly yaqi What is that?

(20:40):
So it's kinky. You know, forkinky hair, then it's curly for
curly hair. And then there'syaqi. So yak, so yaqi actually
is short for Yak or, I guess thelong form for Yak. So, back in
the day, when they wanted tomimic black women's hair
straightened, they use hair froma yak, the animal. So the

(21:01):
industry just put an eye on theend and called it yaqi. So you
would know what yaqi was, if youwere a black woman, so any black
woman be like, Oh, girl, yeah,you got that yaqi in. And so
it's a sort of tongue in cheek.
So you would have to be the partof that target demographic in
order to understand the name ofthe name of the brand. So yeah,

I love that.
You're very specific about yourdream customer to exactly
because I was her I get high onmy own supply. So at some point,
did you end up closing thedecorating business?

I did. I closed it.
I shut it down. Back in 2015.
And the only reason why I did isbecause I got pregnant.

Unknown (21:48):
More.

Yeah, so I launched Kinky Curly Aki in December of
2012. By July of 2013, I was,you know, the business was doing
really well. At that point, itwas, I was just doing just under
$400,000 in sales. And I foundout in July, I was pregnant. And

(22:11):
so I was like, Oh, gosh. And sobut you know, with my industry,
you know, with wedding decor, Ihad brides booked a year out.
Right, so, so I was still doingthose weddings, you know, still
going to the still going tomeetings, breastfeeding, doing
weddings, that type of thing.
And then I started and I wasn'treally paying attention to what
Kinky Curly Yaki was doing. Ididn't know all these numbers

(22:33):
until later on, because I wasdoing it just because like, I
just loved it. And I waslearning about HTML and
marketing and SEO and I just, Ijust threw myself into it, but
wasn't paying attention to thenumbers. I just knew it was
doing well. But then when Ifound out I was pregnant, I was
like, Okay, okay, then you gotto chill, you gotta chill, you
can't be can't be doingeverything. And then, in 2014,

(22:53):
march of 2014, I gave birth tomy son, and he's been wonderful
ever since he's six now. Andthen I saw what Kinky Curly Yaki
was doing, I thought, Man, I'mreally half asking it. What
happens if I put my full assinto this? And once I did,
again, it took off. So Oh, yeah.

Okay, so I know that whenever entrepreneurs
are listening to this or sidehustlers or listening to this,
they're like, Wait a second, sheaccidentally created a half a
million dollar business andwasn't even paying attention. So
how does that happen? did wasthat like word of mouth or
referral? Did you have launches?
Do you have specific marketingplans? What did that look like

(23:43):
for you I

had none of that what I had was what people knew
me from in the Facebook groupsand and because I was also I'm
also the OG of the niche sothere was this niche of just
selling kinky hair did not existbefore I started before I
created my company. So because Isaw a gap in the market, I'm a I

(24:07):
pioneered that. So any othercompany that you now see selling
kinky hair is because of me. Andso then because I was first to
market with that bat justexploded because that's what
women were looking for. I wassolving their problem. And on
top of that, I looked like that.
Right. So it's like, they werelike, Girl, you know, because

(24:28):
one of the things was be like,Girl, I was tired of the whole
African in the front and Indianin the back. If you're a black
woman, you know what that means.
So what that means is, you know,we're all from, you know, black
women or from, you know, theAfrican diaspora. So we had
these tight kinky hair, and thenwe were putting on these silky
weaves that didn't blend withour hair. So I was tired of the
whole African in the front andIndian in the back. And that

(24:50):
resonated with people so it justand I didn't do i didn't i.
Here's another thing. I justliterally launched with one
product. Launch with oneproduct. And if I only had three
legs, I only had three links. Iremember at the time and someone
would buy one, I would take thatmoney and go and buy two. And

(25:12):
that's how I built my business.
I didn't I bootstrapped it. Istarted from zero I have I took
no outside capital. I didn'thave any debt. I literally
started from the bottom. And wasit easy? No, no, it wasn't. Is
it possible? I'm so freakinlovely.

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How did you hear about ussection.

Nice job, Kathleen.

And we're back. So I want to talk a little
bit about authenticity. Becauseyou I feel like that's like the
core of who you are as being whoyou are. Even whenever it's not.
By Design, you know, it justkind of showed up that way. You
are your own client. And I thinkthat's one of the greatest ways

(27:15):
to be authentic whenever itcomes to creating what you do.
So, let's let's talk a littlebit about that. Um, why do you
think that authenticity andbeing true to yourself and using
your own personality isimportant for anyone who is
building a business or a brand?

Because people don't necessarily, one of the
biggest things people need tokeep in mind is people aren't
necessarily buying the product.
As you can see, it sounds likeI'm the first person to ever
sell kinky textured hairextensions. In fact, there were
tons of companies that had itbut they what they did is they
buried it underneath the silkiertexture. So I'm not the first
person to sell kinky texture,hair extensions. But what people
don't realize is that peoplearen't necessarily buying the

(27:58):
product, they're buying theperson, or they're buying the
emotions, they're buying thelifestyles behind the product.
So brand is where you can tellthat story. So branding will
help you to help you stand outin the crowd. It will help
people remember and especiallywhen you have a story that

(28:20):
resonates with someone, that'swhat they're buying into. They
could care. I mean, yeah, youcould you could be selling
something that's more expensiveand more you know, has less
tools unless this unless that,but what they're buying is the
person or the idea or theemotions behind it. So I that's
what I realized very quickly,is, you know, especially in the
wedding decor business people belike, wow, Vivian, you meet me,

(28:42):
you made it feel so simple. Youmade me feel so comfortable. And
you made this process so easyfor me. And I realized it
doesn't I could go learn how todo all the fancy, you know, all
the fancy do decor, all I want.
But that's not what they careabout. They care that I made
them feel good about the moneythat they were spending and made

(29:02):
their wedding feel pretty like Imade them feel that way. So
that's that's really what youshould focus on.

I love that you said that you're not the
first person to sell kinky ornatural hair extensions, but
that it's been buried and so youtook a product, you nition on
it, and then you highlighted it,and it's beautiful. And you're
owning it and you're helpingother women own it. I'm curious
a little bit with some of theactivism around natural hair,

(29:30):
California has banned hairdiscrimination. It's something
that I was so excited to see andwant to continue to see. Are
there any levels of likeactivism, or do you think that
even products like yours havehelped create that kind of
activism? You know, do you thinkthey it's like, no, this is who
we are, and this is just asprofessional as any other hair?

Well, I think the problem was, was that we were
letting you know black women ingeneral Were we were letting the
world tell us what wasbeautiful. And, you know,
YouTube and you know, the beautyof the internet was us being
able to see each other peopleoutside of our own communities,
and how they look and how theyrock their hair, and all that

(30:17):
jazz. So I think really it itjust helped people just be who
they wanted, like just to be whothey are like, just to be their
authentic selves. And truth betold, and this is just women in
general, because even societytells us women what we're
supposed to look like, like, I'mpretty sure after this
quarantine thing is done,there's gonna be a lot of people

(30:37):
who were blonde that aren'tblonde anymore, right? But you
know, with black women, we'rewe're especially, you know,
we're especially, I don't wantto say I was to just say hate it
on, because of how we look. Andso then this I feel loves just
the way to just be like, Listenworld, we have to teach, we have

(30:59):
to teach the world, this is howwe are if they don't like it,
that is their problem, becausethis is how my head this is how
the hair grows out of my headnaturally. Yes, it's curly, it
goes, it goes to the heavens,because that makes me closer to
God and the sun, right. And soif that's not something you
think is professional, then Ithink you really need to re
examine what your idea ofprofessional is Karen, sorry,

(31:21):
Ken.

It just goes to show that Chad,
representation matters. Absentthat is what the internet gave
us. It gave us access to eachother and to, to all kinds of
beauty and bodies and ways ofbeing right. And it allowed us

(31:44):
to see ourselves in others, andwe can't help it but need
permission, you know, and thatpermission. Sometimes there's
just simply in representation. Ihave so many role models, where
I'm like, Oh, I didn't know Icould do that until I saw them
do it.

Yeah. And you're providing tools for that
awareness as well, which I thinkis like that's an important part
of this too. It's not onlyhaving access to the vision, but
it's having access to the toolsto and that's even what you've
done.

Okay, Vivian youare, you just radiate
confidence. We all see it we allfeel it over these past couple
of days. Do you want some of ourlisteners or our attendees here
today? Want to know Do you everdoubt yourself? Like do you ever
have what we call here at beingboss Friday feelings? I mean,
especially going into industriesthat you didn't have experience

(32:38):
in

the freakin lately.
Um, you know, I battle withimposter syndrome Friday
feelings all the time. But then,I think to myself, you know,
what, if I don't do what I'm puton this earth to do, then nobody
will. Nobody will be able to doit either. Because people who

(33:00):
need who look like me, or evenin the same situation as me. So
like I said, I'm a single mom,I've been through depression,
I've been suicide. I've beenthrough all the things that
tried me, and I came out gold.
So if I don't tell that story,if I don't tell people how it's
done, then everyone's just thisis going to be one hell of a

(33:22):
boring world. So if I let thatimposter syndrome eat me eat
away at me, then that's notthat's not fair. It's not fair
to anyone. Right? So I shine sothat everyone else can shine
too.

Right? That's like holding your purpose higher
than your emotions.

Unknown (33:39):
Absolutely. Thanks for the eyebrows, Kathleen.
Sometimes I say things. She'slike, yeah.

You know what, with this quarantine, my Botox
has worn off so you can see myreaction. That's right, that's
gonna do my eyebrows moving now.
I love it. I'm cackling

right. I'd like to bring this to some personal
branding things, which you'vetalked a little bit about in the
conference. But not everyone hasbeen a part of the conference
like listening to this, we haveso many more people who have
been who have been here with usfor the past couple of days. So
I want to talk about thispersonal branding piece. And if
you have any sort of top tipsfor anyone who's looking to

(34:25):
infuse more of their personalityinto their brand, how can just
any old person and by any oldperson, I mean, everyone is a
snowflake? How can anyone shinein their business and use
themselves as a tool for growth?

Well, what I want to remind people is you don't
need to be me. So you you knoweither hit if you think about
people, like if you think aboutgems, right there's different
gems gems, Ruby shineddifferently than a diamond and
then emeralds than that. So youneed to be exactly that. So be
yourself because Cuz the minuteyou start being someone who

(35:03):
you're not, it's going to feellike work, it's going to feel
you're going to hate it, peoplewill see right through it. So
you really don't have any choicebut to be yourself. And so
sometimes that means you beingquirky, or it means, you know,
maybe you do more blogging thanyou do video, or you know,
whatever the case may be, butyou just need to show up as

(35:25):
yourself in whatever platformand however way you want to do
it. And the people who it willresonate with will find you,
they will find you. So don't be,please don't be anybody else you
don't. That's not what you wereput on this earth to be to be
someone else like and you'rejust doing yourself a huge

(35:45):
disservice by not beingyourself.

How do you When do you feel the most
yourself Vivian? Like, sometimesit's hard to know, like, what
what is me? What should I besharing? Where do I draw these
lines?

You know, what, you know, you know, where the lines
to where to be drawn? Right? YouYou know, you know, like you and
we women, that's one thing Ifind with, especially with
women, I know, there's a lot ofthings I'm finding, but I know
with women, we need to trust ourguts, we're always second
guessing ourselves. And we'realways doing all these things.
But you just need to trustyourself. Because you know,

(36:23):
what, you know where that lineis, you know, what you should be
sharing and what you shouldn'tbe sharing.

Someone was just commenting that I'm like,
very existential with myquestions, which is basically
sums it up. I'm like, but butwhat even are we but a bundle of
cells? What is time? What ispersonality? What is money? So
sorry, asked me. So the questionagain, so I can say it all

(36:50):
night. So the question is, whendo you feel most yourself? Like
how do you know like, what isauthentically you? Because I
think that all of us want toshow up as we are and who we
are. But we can start to likesecond guess ourselves. So you
were saying like, we as womenneed to listen more to our guts,
like, we know, it's in our guts.
But how do you tune into that?

(37:11):
Like, I

know, like, let's just say I remember doing a
couple of years ago, I did ahair like I was I was asked to
speak at a hair, like a beautyhair brand thing. And I didn't
like it. Because hair was not mypassion. I could kid I could
give two kicks about hair. Butput me on a put me in a forum or
you know, an opportunity likethis. This is where I shine. So

(37:34):
I know, you know, you know,like, you know, like, you know,
and so that's the only way I canexplain we know, you know,

you know, my and I think even what you're
explaining is that, you know bytrying things, and then like
listening to yourself, right? Soyou did the hair thing, or you
went and spoke at the hairthing. And you were like, yeah,
this feels gross. Like it butyou wouldn't have known that if
you hadn't tried it first.

Exactly. And that's the key to life too. You gotta
try. You gotta try, you gottatry you gotta try cuz that's the
only way you're gonna find outwhat you like and don't like you
can apply that to life. Like youknow, you don't know you like
kale until you try it. You don'tknow you like guys that do this
until you try it. You have to gothrough and try a bunch of
different things. And then andyou know, one of the things I

(38:19):
started to realize because I'mI'm 42 so at 40 I was like, You
know what, I'm done trying tolive in this box. Like, I'm
done. It's over. I'm you know,Vivian means lively one. Right?
So Vivian, you just need to goabout living your best life
because but you know, all beforeI was 40 I kept trying to be
strike. Everyone kept trying toput me in this box. So you know,

(38:40):
be a box, go in the box. But youknow what I discovered? I
discovered that I was aparallelogram. You know what a
parallelogram is? It's asideways box. It's a rectangle
that has a side it does theGoogle it. Okay, I was a
parallelogram. And I was tiredof being put into the box. And
so once I turned 40, I justflipped the bird to everything

(39:01):
and said, You know what, again,if you do not like it, I do not
care. That is not my problem.
You can go kick rocks, with anopen toe shoe. That's it,
period. My gosh.

Okay, with that we're taking another break. You
also have so many Hold on. Ihave to read this thing over
here that Tasha said before wetake a break. So Tasha says no,
this is great. My filter Fox hasbeen reached and there are none.
On

Oh, I okay. I was I won't curse because my son is
here. But yeah, just imaginethat filled with curses.

Alright, one of our very favorite ways to show
up from a place of authenticityand market who you are is by
teaching what you know, we allhave subjects, where we are an
expert from setting up a new ecommerce website to how to bake
the best cookies and sellingthat knowledge through online
courses. digital downloads andmemberships is how we can add

(39:57):
revenue to our bank accountswhile sharing what we know The
world. But how do you sell thesethings, especially if the
technology freaks you out? Checkout podia a hassle free platform
for creatives who want to earn aliving from their passion they
make creating and selling onlinecourses, digital downloads and
memberships easy, and they havea soft spot in their hearts for

(40:18):
bosses today would not bepossible without their help. So
hop along and go create thecourse that you've been dreaming
about. You can get 14 days freewith no credit card required by
going to podia.com slash bosses.
Poor Cory sometimes has tolisten to me read an ad like
four times before I can get thewhole thing done. It is everyone

(40:39):
send some love to Cory rightnow.

Cory, we love you.

Right? All right. So in this next little
segment that we have, I want totalk about e commerce, because
that's one of the things thatsort of connected us through
that webinar months and monthsago. It's something that most of
the bosses here are familiarwith or in, and it's something
that you are an expert at. So asan expert in the e commerce I

(41:11):
got this guy's as an expert inthe e commerce industry and as a
coach, because we know thatcoaches are having conversations
with lots of kinds ofbusinesses. What do you see
happening in e commerce rightnow? And what do you see
changing?

Oh, that's a good question, too. So what I see
happening in e commerce is focuson brand I would say, because
the markets been pretty floodedwith the drop shippers. So the
people who are just peddling,you know, the products from
China and don't even have eyeson the product that don't tell

(41:51):
the story behind it. And then ofcourse, Amazon Amazon has had a
huge impact on e commerce. Butthen people I think are tired of
the consumers tired of that? NoName, no experience, no emotions
behind purchase. style, I guessyou could call it. So what's

(42:14):
emerging in e commerce is a morepersonal a more focus on
personalization and more focuson brand storytelling, a more
focused on supporting the littleguy, right? Because Am I mean,
listen, during this whole COVIDsituation, Amazon's gonna be
okay. I, you know, I think theother day I read that he made

(42:36):
like, whatever billion dollarsin a week, but can't afford to
pay the warehouse workers. Butyou know, that same money that
you spent on Amazon, you couldspend it on a small e commerce
business that would carefullypackage your product and write a
thank you note and give you amore you know, more emotional
purchase, I guess, for lack of abetter term. So what I'm seeing

(43:00):
is brand brand is becoming afocus storytelling is becoming
more of a focus your why tellingyour customer your why you're
doing is becoming more of afocus for e commerce.

I have a confession to make. I really
loved my two day prime. And Ibecame hooked on it. You know,
like Amazon became a drug.
Right? And I, I felt bad aboutit. And I knew I should be doing
better. And of course, with someof the, you know, artists and
stuff, I was getting that directfrom my friends who have brands

(43:32):
and businesses. But for some ofthe general stuff, I was like,
why not prime it? Well, now thatit's taken two or three weeks to
get my stuff from Amazon, and Ifeel guilty buying non essential
stuff from Amazon, because Iknew about the warehouse workers
is shining a light on what waskind of already wrong with it.

(43:53):
And I, I don't have too manyopinions. I'm not well informed
enough on Amazon. I'm not tryingto be a hater right now. But
what I am is now a lover. I am alover of the small businesses.
I'm going back to finding Okay,who's offering the alternative?
Where can I get, you know, theface masks sewn by the artisan

(44:15):
and it's also going to take aweek to ship but in some sense
now it's faster than Amazon. Andso it's really helped me
reorient my values and reorientme to the brands and businesses
that really care and are reallymaking a difference. And like
you said, Vivian, that they havea story and supporting each
other. It's so huge right now, Ithink the market was flooded

(44:38):
before. But now more than ever,we had to step up for each
other.

Yeah, and even now, it's like, people are now
understanding that sense ofcommunity. Right? It's like,
okay, now they understand like,because that's the, I mean, this
is terrible to say but thebeauty of COVID is that everyone
is in the same situation. So nowit's making you take a better
Look at how you've been living.
So yeah, you got used to AmazonPrime and you were doing Botox

(45:03):
and you were doing this, but nowyou're realizing, oh girl, I
look fine without the Botox. Ican wait a week, if I if that
means I'm supporting, you know,a friend that or you know,
someone, a friend of a friend ora friend that's doing this
business selling the exact samething. Yeah, I could have got it
from Amazon within two days. Butdid I really need it in two
days? No, because like you said,Amazon created a drug. And it
made it hard for us smaller ecommerce businesses to keep up

(45:26):
with that. So now it almostfeels like we're on the same
level as Amazon. Right. And wecan compete with that, and how
we can compete with Amazon iswith brand. And what also people
old people also forget thatAmazon started out as a niche
product. All they sold was booksbefore, but they got really,
really, really, really good atselling books. And then they

(45:49):
expanded the market. So theywent deep before they started
going wide. So that's a threw inthat, during that little tip to

be real clear.
I don't get my Botox fromAmazon.

Unknown (46:07):
Don't worry about that.

Oh my god, I love it. I say You look great. Like I
don't like it like Gary, youdon't need it. Come on. Now.

I will say do I love this drug analogy because
whenever Amazon first came up,that's what I was thinking about
is like Amazon has become a drugthat we just like, by now by now
here two days by now like, getthose little hits of Amazon. And
now those hits hit different.
And where the good hits comefrom is from buying local and
buying small. We definitely feelit is so much more meaningful to

(46:39):
us now. And that meaningfulnessmore so than the immediate. What
is that immediate gratification?
immediate right? immediate ha,favorite? Maybe

it's like poppers versus I don't know my
drugs well enough to go deepinto this analogy.

You know, what's forcing you to do it's forcing
you to get high on your ownsupply on your own face and
except your face for what it isand the beauty that is Kathleen?

Right? No, but it's true. I think that there is
something too It's so funny withthis whole I wasn't planning on
the conversation going here. Butwith this whole COVID thing. I
feel like I've turned into likemy world war two grandparents,
like I am saving my tinfoil. Iam checking in on my neighbors.

(47:32):
I mean, we're all sewing, we'realso doing our own masks. I
mean, we are getting crafty, andwe're getting resourceful. And I
do think that on the other sideof this, we can hold those
values in place. And again, itreally does come back to
shopping small because theseproblems weren't. It's not that
they weren't there before theywere there before. This is just

(47:53):
shining a big old light on allthe inequities on all the broken
systems that were already inplace that so many people have
already been trying to screamabout for years, and nobody was
listening. So I you know, thishas forced everybody to listen
and everybody to reevaluate whatreally matters. And it's these

(48:14):
small brands, it's creativeentrepreneurs, because I think
we're also going to see thatwe're the ones that provide the
soul, and the beauty and thelike, what makes life
interesting. Big Box is notinteresting. It's not coming
back. Vivian.

It's not memorable. You say that, but I'm
also like, I can't wait to go toTarget. I totally agree, though.

That there's balance right there's there's a
balance to be had. Because Yeah,you can go to Amazon and still
get your essentials right. Butyou know, if you like girl if
you just want to buy you knowsome candles, then maybe you
should support the girl but youknow, that you saw at the
farmers market? Maybe you shouldsupport your friend of a friend
of a friend or whoever the casemay be Yes, creativity is a cat

(49:02):
swear. But yeah, you know, it'sit's, it's, it's a beautiful
thing.

Yeah. I love this. Okay, so now that we have
slipped into COVID a little bitI would love to hear just to
work briefly without gettingheated. Because I think we can
all get really heated reallyquickly. Just as someone who's
in e commerce in this time, andyou go to help everyone to hear
what sort of shifts you'remaking in your business. What

(49:28):
sort of plans are you laying inplace? Or are you just like
chilling and waiting? Because Iknow plenty of people who are
doing that too.

Yeah, yeah, I'm basically just floating just
because you know, to be honest,hair extensions aren't an
essential it's more of a luxuryand especially because I sell a
premium product. I don't want tosound tone deaf and saying hey
girl, you know take your stilllike Fashion Nova. Hey girl,
take your stimulus money and buymy product know that I don't

(49:56):
want to be that company. That'stakes advantage of people I
understand that what I sell is,it's, it's an assess is it is
essential now, I guess at thepresent, or you speak to, but
I'm just using this time to justfloat, I'm taking this time to
lean out my business, becausenow I've got the time, right, so

(50:19):
I'm looking at all my apps, I'mlooking at all my subscriptions,
I'm looking at ways I can cut,you know, cut my, my money,
because the same, I don't havethe same revenue coming in as I
did, you know, a year, a yearago. And so that I'm, I'm taking
the time to get lean again.
Because of course, you know,over time you get bloated. So
now it's like I'm doing abusiness detox, you know,

(50:40):
getting rid of products thataren't moving and focusing on
what will move, you know,providing more value for my
customers and, and creatingcontent that that will help
either be, you know, a resourceor relief to them. So that's
what I'm focusing on.

Do you feel like in some ways, Vivian,
you're kind of rewinding towhenever you first started
kinky, curly Yaki, because forme, I'm coming back to the
basics so much. Like I'm comingback into niching down, because
I did get deep, and then Iwidened out my customer base,
but I'm finding myself comingback down to niching. down and
that education piece, like, Oh,I could create some really cool

(51:18):
content for this specificperson. I'm gonna get back to
that. Are you doing some of thattoo?

I am. I am, and especially, especially in Vivian
Kay. Because of course, it getsreally it gets really exciting
to want to do all these things.
But then, you know, just theother day, someone from Shopify
reached out and said, we have alot of brick and mortar stores
that need to get quickly getonline quickly. And we're
getting overwhelmed with that. Ithink somewhat, I think, and you
know, they're like, wink wink, Iwould love to see someone create

(51:45):
something to help these brickand mortar stores get up and
running. Right. So that made merealize I need to just get back
to basics. Like, you can golearn SEO, you can go learn that
stuff. But people are lookingfor basic stuff. So that's Yeah,
it's just the perfect, now's theperfect time if you can. And
that's, I hate to say that COVIDis this making that possible,

(52:07):
but take time in your businessto detox it. Because over time
it will get it will get bloated,it will start to have acne and
you don't know why will girljust sit down, drink some lemon
water and see what happens.

I love it. Okay, we have two listener questions
that I would like to throw outhere to sort of wrap this up if
you don't mind. One is even ifyou are being yourself, you
still get vulnerabilityhangovers. How do you deal with
those

vulnerability hangovers? Um, honestly, I don't
I don't I don't think I've everhad that happen. I you know, I
show up, honestly, because Ishow up. Like, if I don't want
to show up and like, you know, Iusually show up online like on
my Instagram stories. If I don'twant to show up, I just don't
show up. But then there's sometimes when I'm going through
something. And I feel like youknow, what, is this a teaching?

(53:02):
Would this help someone that'swatching me? You know what, I
think it will so then I'll sharethat or when I'm ready. I will.
So I've never had hangovers,like, I've never been online
been Oh my god, whoa, I've neverdone that. If anything, what I
do is I I'm okay to not be okay.
And I will sit in that notokayness. And then when I'm
ready, I come back out. And I'mlike, Hey, guys, I wasn't okay.

(53:22):
And I'm okay with that. Buthere's how we got, here's how I
got through it. And here's howyou can do it too.

I've also noticed a couple other things
that you've mentioned along theway that probably helped with
this vulnerability hangover,which I do suffer from. But
here's what I've learned fromyou, Vivian. One is make sure
that you're showing up in theplaces that are your jam. So you
were like this here is my jam,speaking at a beauty conference
about hair extensions, not myjam. So really knowing what's

(53:52):
for you and what's not for youwhat you like what you don't
like it goes a really long wayin avoiding vulnerability
hangovers and then to being okaywith people not liking you. And
again, maybe it's somethingabout turning 40 I'm a couple
years away, but I'm lookingforward to it because no fucks
given you just stopped givinghim a hook. Right. So I think

(54:14):
there's that as well. And thenalso just the clarity on who you
are and what you do and what youdon't do. All right, next
question for you.

What do you love most about what you do?

So much, so much like, sorry, I'm about to get
emotional. So like today, I hadI got a comment on a post that I
made. I will though, actually isa couple of things. A post that
I just made recently where oneof my followers sent it to me
and I was on her vision board. Iwas on there with Oprah. I was

(54:53):
on there with Michelle Obama andthere was little Oh Vivian. The
college dropout single motherthat had Everybody counted out.
And even, even last night,someone made a comment that, you
know, they were looking for asign, they wanted to start a
business, but they had thatimposter syndrome in their, in
their brain trying to eat awayat their idea. And she decided

(55:15):
she wanted to go register thisbusiness and this business
happened to feature me on theirwebsite, and she went to the
website issue, ask God for asign, that's what happened. She
asked the universe for a sign.
And she went to this website togo and register her business.
And there I was, and I lookedlike her. So to the people who
are like, you know, who feellike, you know, oh, it needs to
be inclusive, it needs to bethis, it means that when you've

(55:37):
been living in this world,without seeing yourself for so
long, and when you start to seepeople who look like you who
resonate with you who have yourstory,

Unknown (55:52):
you just, that's what I've lived for. I

want everybody to know, it doesn't matter what
your background is, what kind ofcircumstances you've had to
overcome. representationmatters. It really does. So
whether you're skinny, you'refat, you're this you're that you
study, like you're black, you'rewhite, whatever it is show up
and I'm so very, very, veryproud of all the ships that I've

(56:21):
gone through because I say thatship is maneuver manure, they
use manure to grow things, rightmanure helps you thrive, it
helps you flourish. So think ofall the shit that you go through
as manure. And and so I takethat manure and i and i and i
tell everybody Listen, I got Igot speckles of shit all over my

(56:41):
face. This is how I look. Youdon't like it? That's your
problem, but take me as I am. Sothat's what I find. Great.
That's this is what I love to doit I wouldn't do anything. I
wouldn't trade it for the worldthat wouldn't

Well, you have all the bosses crying now. Over
there and read the chat they'regiving you hugs we have I
sweating. People are offering totake your shit for you.

I know we're all like we take you as you are
come live with us just come moveinto my house because you're the
best.

Okay, just curl like we only have one life to
live it would be such a shame tonot live it because you were so
busy worried about your frownlines and what someone's what so
and so things and girl like

Unknown (57:37):
live your life.

I love it. Okay, last question. First. Thank you
for sharing. Oh, sorry, Istarted went all over the place
with that, but I was okay.

I feel like that was a good ending. Okay,
now we're gonna bring it backpractical, I

guess. No, actually just just closing
question. The usual being bosspodcast closing question,
Vivian, when maybe this evenanswered it, but we'll see. What
makes you feel most boss.

Makes me feel most boss is when i when i when i
just say something that someonehad hadn't even thought of. And
if they say that it changed, itinspired them. It changed their
life. And to me that's I couldcare. Honestly, money comes and

(58:29):
goes. Money comes and goes,people come and go. But how you
make people feel is what makesme that's what that's that boss
that boss shit right there.

Agreed. Well, you've certainly made us feel so
inspired. Thank you so much.
Vivian. It has been such apleasure having you on the show.
Oh, yeah,

it was it was I really appreciate you ladies.
It's been an absolute pleasure.
And you are absolutely welcome.

All right, I'm going to wrap this up with a
shout out to our sponsors thatwe have fresh books cloud
accounting, thank you to podiaand shop good and Oklahoma City.
I also want to do a shout out toour swag bag contributors. Thank
you to Banda weirdos AndreaHolmes art studio, metal
Marvel's his social granoladenisa art a free period press.

(59:22):
Chicken Coop botanicals, a hawksand doves, modern mystic and
Almanac supply co You can findlinks to all of those and all of
the resources and mentioned intoday's episode at WWW dot being
boss dot club. Thanks forlistening. And hey, if you want
more resources, we're talkingworksheets, free trainings in

(59:45):
person meetups and vacations andmore. Go to our website at www
dot bien boss dot club.

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#237 - Authenticity in Marketing with Vivian Kaye of KinkyCurlyYaki

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#237 - Authenticity in Marketing with Vivian Kaye of KinkyCurlyYaki