Estrangement

In this episode, we explore the idea of emotional trauma and how it can manifest in our physical bodies. We also discuss the importance of self-love and forgiveness when dealing with difficult relationships. We hear from a Jennifer who shares her experience of having a family gathering despite estrangement between her parents, and how she has learned to take control of her own life and relationships.

Summary keywords: people , estrangement , hear , thought , life , mom , trauma , feel , estranged , family , somatic , guitar , talk , wong , love , siblings , moment , rodriguez , happen , uncle 

Episode Transcript

Jennifer and Charity (00:05):
Hello, and welcome to Our Podcast being
effing honest, I'm JenniferWong. And I'm Charity Rodrigues.
We invite you into ourconversations about everyday
issues experienced by everydaypeople. We share our stories
with honesty and humor, hopingto bring people together in
community by showing howvulnerability can deepen bonds

(00:25):
when done with kindness and nonjudgment. We know it's tough. So
we'll go ahead and go first.

Charity Rodriguez (00:45):
Okay, good morning. Good morning, Jennifer,
how are you? I'm good. And I'mactually happy to be back here
recording again, it feels likeforever. So we just aired,
launched our inner criticpodcast. And I was listening to
it again, because I don't know,I just, I think that we have

(01:06):
some good information. And as Iwas listening to it, I heard us
talk about a lot of things,especially about being
completely secure in ourselvesto move forward and do what we
want, and to go after ourdreams. And you had just gone to
the

Jennifer Wong (01:24):
the woman's business seminar or workshop in
San Antonio. And one of thethings you had said, Here,
here's the list, there is nobox, get out of the box, I need
to be so strong in my beliefsand desires that I can't be
taken down you. These are notactual quotes. This is what I
heard.
Innovation is vulnerability, thewillingness to fail. Doing the

(01:47):
hard things is when thingshappen. And
I am, you know, doing thispodcast for one is something
that I need a lot of supportfor, because as you and I both

(02:10):
know, we have very full lives.
But this was like intuitivelybrought together it was bigger
than us, we started doing it andit's been fabulous. And life is
starting to get in the way. AndI'm thinking man, I need to get
back in the groove of believingin this, you know, believing
100% In this and you know, lifegot busy. And I asked myself, do

(02:32):
I And absolutely, I do believein this 100% It's just that life
got busy. So I think that thatwas a big difference. And I
thought about all those thingslike, Am I doing the hard
things? Yes, I'm doing my bestto show up to do the social
media to make sure that my eyesare set on this each week. And
thenthe other thing that I felt like

(02:56):
listening to that podcast wassuch perfect timing, because I'm
in a state of trying to move outof my job into what I want to
do, which is writing. I mean, Iam a writer, I'm stating it
here, I'm declaring it. And I'vebeen in a writing group. I did a
six weeks, and I'm in anothersix week right now. And it is

(03:19):
totally helping me to hone in onmy writing skills. And in that
inner critic, podcast you hadsaid,
you know, there's a point wherewe get to believing that we need
more training, or we're not goodenough, or data. And I heard
what you had said, knowing thatall that is BS. And I just, I

(03:42):
don't know, it gave me so muchinspiration to keep writing and
keep doing what I need to do. Sokudos to us is all I'm saying.
And it was just a perfecttiming. You know, I keep
thinking like, I don't need tohear things exactly. When it
comes out or in any certainorder. The universe will bring
me exactly what I need to hearwhen I need to hear it in that

(04:04):
moment. Like if I were to listento this maybe two weeks from now
or listen to it before it gotlaunched, maybe it wouldn't have
had the right impact on me. But,boy, it was such a good podcast.
So I just wanted to say that.

Charity Rodriguez (04:20):
Awesome. That is awesome. Because sometimes we
do need to go back sometimeswe're not ready to hear the
message or get the insight whenwe hear it. And we we forget
that we kind of brushed thataside because we're like, Oh, I
already have read all thosebooks. I know what that what
they're saying or I've alreadyheard that before. It you know,

(04:44):
like it's not going to doanything, but it may not have
been your time. And it soundslike yesterday it was your time
you were ready toMeishan and process it. And
that's awesome. Hopefully it'slike that for other people. They

(05:05):
come back and the podcast, findthem at the right time in the
right place in their lives tohelp them.
So sweet, sweet, sweet. But nowtoday is a new day. And let's
get into our new topic. And thiswas one you're really excited

(05:27):
about. It's only really goodwhen you had said at first I was
like, Yeah, let's do this.

Jennifer Wong (05:32):
Do and go ahead and give the title. Well, it's
for estrangement, and we thoughtthat it would be nice to discuss
this with the holidays comingup. So we're recording this
toward the end of October. Andeven though we've completed our
season one, which should end inDecember, we wanted to add this
one in because it's coming upfor us, the holidays are coming.

(05:55):
And it seems to start bubblingup way before the holidays get
here because the planning startshappening. And as a result of
having all these holidays, thatmeans family will be showing up
in your life in one way oranother. Yes, edits made me
start thinking aboutestrangement in particular,
like, I love to look at all thepositive things happening in the

(06:19):
world and in our life. And Iwill say that the Long family of
which is my ancestral lineage isamazing. They are always
keeping things together, theyare always gathering as a family
as a community as a group. And Ihave to say I learned a lot from

(06:39):
the Long family on how toWhen I talked to my aunt, and I

(08:10):
started explaining these thingsto her, she had no idea. She
didn't know that there was somuch violence going on in my
nuclear family. She had no idea.
AndI think growing up, what I loved
about our family gatherings wasmy parents behaved in those
situations. They must have, Icouldn't believe my aunt didn't

(08:37):
know, I felt like my parents haddone those things to us.
Like hit us or just kind of themean stuff they would say to us.
But I don't think they did. Theywere too busy hosting or talking
to the rest of the family and Igot to feel safe. So whenever we

(08:57):
were in our family gatheringsalways felt safe. And as a
child, my best memories are withthe Walton family because we
would gather for everybody'sbirthday. And there was like 15
of us. So we were gatheringevery month at least and and
then when the Lakers wereplaying during Laker season, we
were gathering to watch Lakergames. So there was a lot of
group activities where we wereall in someone's home hanging

(09:20):
out or at a park safest places.
So I just wanted to say that,that I want to thank my family
before we get into theestrangement part,
my story of estrangement, and Ilooked it up and I looked at the
a couple of the Googledefinitions. So estrangement is
the loss of a previouslyexisting relationship between a

(09:42):
family member or members throughphysical and or emotional
distancing, often to the extentthat there is negligible or no
communication between theindividuals involved for a
prolonged periodand I thought, oh,
Yes, there's a lot of that. Andagain, thank God to the Walton

(10:04):
family because there have beenpeople that probably deserved it
didn't get it.
We've always been welcoming,even to the people that just,
they would like fry youreyebrows, you know, with their
words or their actions it was.
And the Wong family just, youknow, nodded and made small talk

(10:29):
and always offered food andalways extended the invite with
kindness. And it was beautiful.
You know, and I think, luckily,we never had people that were,
you know, that crossed the lineof being abusive to where you
have to I think sometimesestrangement is absolutely
required, because no one shouldbe putting up with unacceptable

(10:51):
behavior as well. Right. Butmaybe the kindness and the
welcoming, created like thisbubble where people just didn't
go that far. I mean, they'd goto the edge, but they didn't
cross the line of unacceptablebehavior. You know, like, maybe
it was annoying, or it wasuncomfortable, but it wasn't.

(11:12):
You know, that line is verygray, but it didn't do that,
which I thought was reallybeautiful. So how about you with
a stranger?

Charity Rodriguez (11:25):
Oh, no, we know, estrangement? Well, very
well.
The Rodriguez family, you know,you were saying earlier about we
are Wong and how that was alwaysinstilled in you. And that was
always instilled in me too. Withwe are Rodriguez. And that's why
you're so strong. You can getthrough things because you are

(11:47):
Rodriguez, you can persevere youcan take whatever abuse because
you are Rodriguez. And Istarted saying that with my
children. Like I just alwayssaid that. And not to disregard
my husband's side of the family.
But I'm like, I'm a Rodriguezsaid, I, this is how I do

(12:07):
things. And this is what I'mgoing to tell my children. And,
you know, if you were to, youknow, do your approbation for
your family, you go for it, I'mnot gonna stop you. But I'm
gonna affirm, you know, mychildren, my family, my
heritage, in so forth, and soon. And so the other day,
in a couple of weeks back,something happened. My daughter

(12:27):
is doing something off atschool, and it was a pretty
difficult situation that she hadto get through. And we were a
little nervous, like, Oh, is shegoing to be able to, you know,
handle this. But she, she did. Imean, it was hard. She, she's
taken up wrestling. It's whatshe's doing this awesome. I just

(12:49):
take it aggressively. And so shewent in there, and she did it.
She showed up for her practicesession, kind of to see if she
could get on the team. And youknow, what not? And she said,
afterward. She, the coach hadasked her like, you know, how
did this feel? And how did thatfeel? And you know, there was a

(13:10):
particularly difficult move, andyour opponent really like, you
know, held you down hard, butyou came through it. And she
said that it just came out ofher mouth. And she said, Yeah,
because I'm Rodriguez and Chicasays this is how we do nice.
That out loud, like you said tome, she's like, Yeah,

(13:31):
yeah, I could feel Papi. And Icould feel Abuela well with me,
like we like, Yes.

Jennifer Wong (13:40):
That's amazing.
So that was pretty cool.

Charity Rodriguez (13:44):
But then, in regards to estrangement,
my parents were the glue thatkept us together. Like there was
a lot ofespecially emotional abuse, I
did not suffer any physicalabuse at the hands of my
parents, at the hands of mysiblings. That's a whole
different story. But the once myparents passed away,

(14:08):
and I knew I knew this was goingto happen, like I saw, and I
think I verbally said it outloud. And then I didn't say it
again, because I didn't want tobe the one that like, Oh, you
brought this on everybodybecause you were so negative.
But I just knew that they werethe glue. My parents were the
glue. And when my parents passedaway, like for myself,

(14:32):
personally, I was like I wasdone. For others. In I don't
know, I don't know how peoplewant to get together. They'll
talk about it, but they don'tmake the effort and put the
energy to get together. And itwas kind of like I was the one

(14:56):
being looked at like Okay, areyou going to do it? And I was
like, Why do I OhI just have to do it. Like, why
can't you guys do it? Like, whycan't somebody else do it? Why
do I always have to do it? Andif I don't do it, you guys don't
do anything? Like, do you wantto get together or not? If you
do, you know, let's do this.

(15:16):
Everyone has to be a 100%participation, not just I'll do
everything, and then you have toshow up in joy. And then, you
know, walk away.
There were a lot of things inour family that also contributed
to our estrangement.
Things that can't betaken back things that I refuse

(15:38):
to ignore and let go. So yeah,we're estranged. I only talked
to two of my siblings, I havelimited connection with one. If
they reach out to me, Iimmediately reach out. But for

(16:01):
the longest time, I was the oneconstantly reaching out and
getting nothing. And then Idon't know, they had a come to
Jesus moment or something. Andsuddenly, they'll show up every
now and then and be like, I loveyou. I just want you to know, I
love you. I'm like, okay, youknow, I love you too, and have a
good day. And I just leave it atthat.

(16:27):
But this sibling had their owndrama, trauma,
did things that they need todeal with that they have never
dealt with.
That I wasn't a part of, like,that wasn't my story. That
wasn't my history. I didn'tcontribute to that. They took
out their anger on me. But aslike, Dude, I was five. You were

(16:49):
like, you know, 15, 17 orsomething. I'm like, what? Why
didn't do anything to you. Sowhatever.
But you know, as long as theirfamily is good, and
they're being good decisions andliving, you know, the best lives
they can live. I'm happy forthem. So I wish them no ill or

(17:14):
anything like that. And youknow, I've talked about the
other sibling and there's nogoing back from that one. They
have issues that again, I can't,I can and that I can forgive. I
guess I guess I can forgive itwhatever, at this point, because
we've had so much time I haven'ttalked to them in seven years,

(17:37):
like directly talk to them. Thelast time I saw them was that my
like, Well, I've been here sevenyears. Yeah. So seven years. At
my I didn't even talk to them atmy mom's funeral. Like we all
show up to the funeral. I didnot even talk to them. I did not
just them. I did not even lookat them. I just showed up. I was
there. Did my reach out? Oh, no,they never reach out. They are

(18:01):
not one to reach out. They willnot meet you halfway. They will
not acknowledge anythingwhatsoever. They can run you
over in the street, keep ongoing. You could be in and out
of the hospital. And then theyshow up a month later. Hey,
what's going on? Everybody doingthis late? I was in the hospital

(18:23):
because you ran me over.
I don't know what you're talkingabout. You made it like that. I
don't know what you're talkingabout. It's like, okay, so, no.
There you go. That's where we'reat.

Jennifer Wong (18:39):
So, yeah, how is I mean, how do you how are you
with that? How have you dealtwith that?
I'm like during the holidays.

Charity Rodriguez (18:50):
Well, unfortunately, our holidays were
big events like otherwise wewouldn't get together.
It was easier when I lived therein Florida. And we always got
together. We had big gatherings.
It was fun. It was exciting. Allthe food and the preparations
and the games and talk and thestories like I just loved the

(19:13):
stories. My father would havestories. My one brother would
tell stories you catch up oneverybody's life. And it was
kind of like everyone out tryingto outdo everyone with their
stories.
We have one brother inparticular who's just a very
good storyteller. So whenever hespoke, it was just like, what

(19:36):
next? What happened next? Oh mygod, he'd have everybody
cracking up and you know, justthe things that he did that were
funny. Like he could alwaysadmit when he made a mistake.
And you just keep going. It'slike you did it. Like No way.
Like you kept Come on man. No.
And he'd be like, Yeah, but letme tell you like, let me tell

(19:58):
youdo happen next. And it's just
it's fun. Butthat, yeah, once my parents
passed away, that didn't happen.
Andlike the remaining siblings, we
could get together, like, we'llgo visit each other, like I've
had each other's homes justthroughout the year, but we

(20:23):
don't, I don't fly out there forChristmas or whatever, then they
don't come here. Like we just,you know, we just talk on the
phone and do the group texts forthe ones that are still in
communication with each other.
And, you know, well wishes toeveryone, but
everyone, for the most part doestheir own thing.

Jennifer Wong (20:46):
And you feel okay with that?

Charity Rodriguez (20:51):
It is what it is. I can't
I mean, I mean, I could changeit if I wanted to. But I don't
want to anymore. So I'm good.

(21:17):
Because unlike your gatherings,you said people didn't cross the
line. But at some of ourgatherings, people did cross the
line.
And so it was witnessed, and,and a blind eye was turned to
it.

(21:38):
And my parents were able to keepit in order, or everyone would
be like, Hey, Mom and Dad arehere. You know Mami y Papi,
estan aqui. Just, you know, getyourself together. Oh, keep it
together. Oh, okay. Okay. Okay.
And,and also, because we didn't see
each other, like, all the time,when those gatherings happened,
it was a really, it was a rollercoaster of emotion will be joy

(22:01):
and elation and like, seeing youand the stories, and then there
will be something that will bebrought up about something in
the past that hadn't beenaddressed. And that was the
moment that they chose to saysix months ago, you remember
when you said XY and Z? And thenyou I was just like, What man
like that was six months ago?

(22:21):
Like, I mean, I'm like, Why doyou say something six months
ago? Why do you have to waituntil we get together for
Christmas or Easter or whatever?
Everybody's here now, can wejust have a good time? Yeah.
So

Jennifer Wong (22:34):
I think it goes back to what you said, like
people have their own traumasand issues that do not get
healed or worked on and sodon't, then it's it, you know,
and I think that goes back tobeing codependent. And then
there's the whole forgivenessthing that we had talked about,
but I don't think that'slaunched yet. And it's just,

(22:58):
there's a whole bunch that goesinto it. And I think it's really
difficult. You know, I saw andeven though I said the wrong
family was good. The front sidewas not the front side of my
family was constantly goingthrough strange moments
constantly. Somebody was on theouts, somebody wasn't coming in.

(23:20):
And, and it was really small, itwas just my mom, her brother and
my grandmother.
And, and as I've gotten older, Irealized there was a lot of
trauma on that side of thefamily, a lot of unhealed,
unaware of trauma, I don't eventhink they would have thought,

(23:40):
oh, we have trauma in thefamily. And it just keeps going
and going and going and going.
And so growing up, I had anuncle who I love dearly. And he
would come and go in the familyand and some of it was by his

(24:01):
own choice, you know, he would,you know, he would just flake
and not show up. And then therewas the other times where he
wasn't invited. So my mom andhim would go through these huge
prolonged periods of time wherethey did not talk. And looking
back at it. Now, I think God,both of their traumas were just

(24:23):
crashing into each other, andthey just couldn't take it
anymore. And so that was thatwas the end of that. And I
remember. So they would go yearsand I'd always wonder, when I
was probably up until the age of10 or 11. I wonder if my uncle
is going to come to thisgathering. I hope so because I
loved him. He was like the lifeof the party. He was funny. He

(24:45):
was artistic. He played theguitar. He could listen to
something and just play it onthe piano. I really enjoyed him
a lot and then he was you knowwhat people might stereotype is
rednecky. And, you know, incontrast to the Asian family, it
was really fun. He was like, theguy that was shooting guns and

(25:08):
had a big four wheel drive. Andit was kind of inappropriate.
And, but I thought he washilarious. I really liked my
uncle a lot. And so my, Iremember, it was like Easter,
and he was coming over. And Ithink he was still married
Maybe. Or maybe he was with agirlfriend, I don't remember.

(25:33):
But my mom got all irritated.
And they got into this hugebrawl. I had gone to the
bathroom, I came back my uncle'sgun. And I swear, we did not see
him for like 10 years. I think Iwas in college before he came
back again. And I rememberwriting him letters and just,

(25:55):
you know, saying it's not mybeef, you know, I hope that we
can still get together and himand I had an issue. But I wrote
these letters to him. And thenwe had a conversation, and we
ended up both crying and, andthen we were, we'd be back in
each other's good graces. And Ithought, wow, that is really
powerful. Communication is soimportant, but you have to have

(26:19):
both parties got to be willingto participate in a healthy
manner. No one was yelling ateach other, we did get to say
how we felt hurt or wronged.
Because isn't that always thereason for the estrangement,
someone feels wronged or hurt orsomething like that. But we
would come back together, himand my mom, no chance. I don't

(26:39):
think my mom talked to him forprobably 15 years, it was a long
time. And then we got a we had agood family friend. And I think
he reached out to either my momor one of my aunts, I can't
remember and said, your youknow, my uncle was living with

(27:02):
him. And he had come backbecause he had terminal brain
tumor, brain cancer. And I wasso sad, but I had been talking
to him. So I was really sad. ButI didn't feel the guilt. I think
so then my mom can muster upenough forgiveness to hang out

(27:26):
with him. And for I think it wasa year or two, I can't remember
exactly. He was back in ourlives again, you know, and he
was coming to family functions,because he couldn't come to
family functions. If my motherdidn't want him there, you know,
so he wouldn't get invited. Andnow that he's dying, we're all

(27:47):
coming back together. And Iremember think thinking What a
tragic waste of time. Back then,I did think that, and I was a
little bit angry. You know, andI think those are all parts of
the grief of knowing thatsomeone that you love is going
to die. And there's nothing youcan do about it. But I will say

(28:09):
the last couple years when hewas coming back to the groups,
it was really beautiful. Andwhen I was married to my first
husband, we had a gathering atmy house. And everybody showed
up. Even my mom and dad who werenot getting along, there's a
strange moment there who theydid manage to buckle up and
behave themselves. And Iremember my uncle sitting on the

(28:37):
patio, and he had a guitar,which he didn't know where it
was at the time. And his mindwas starting to go because the
tumor was you know, affectinghis memory, speech, thoughts,
everything. In addition to himbeing in a lot of pain. And he
he used my guitar and he startedteaching me how to do Travis
picking, which I thought wasamazing. If he can barely

(28:59):
function, but he can Travis pickon the guitar, which I still
can't do to this day. And it wasjust really sweet. That was like
my last memory of him. And thenafter that he declined. And then
he was kind of in and out ofcoma states, you know,
unconscious. And he died at mymom's house in her living room

(29:19):
actually, because she hadbrought in a bed and brought in
hospice and she took care ofthem during those two years. She
would take him to all of hisappointments and we would hear
about how terrible it was thatshe was caring for him but
wasn't mine. You know, it wasn'tmine that was between them that
was there. Making peace and Idon't know if she ever did maybe

(29:42):
she felt that was her? Was itpenance for the years of not to
I don't know, I'll never know.
But I remember thinking God, youknow, what? A damn waste of time
and I didn't want that to happenin my life, especially to people
I love. And as I get older, Ialso know that sometimes we just

(30:05):
can't do it. And it's okay. Itis what it is. And there's this
level of acceptance in it. ThatI think, is a lot of work
because I think being estrangedreally affects everybody, even
the person that's saying, Idon't want you here anymore.

(30:28):
Yes, there's got to be workthat's got to be done. I mean,
if there's not that acceptance,I think there's still pain. Yes,
that goes on, even when we'reestranged. And the cool thing
about that story is after myuncle had passed away, so he was
involved in drugs and alcohol toon and off throughout his life,

(30:49):
which was so funny, because myfamily never talked about
alcoholism or any of that. Butthey would just say, Oh, he just
can't get it together. Somepeople just can't get the good
breaks, never wasn't mentionedthat maybe he had an addiction
issue. Until I got into LA. Likemany years later, I thought,
wow, we have this elephant inthe room. And we never looked at

(31:12):
it that way, just that he wasjust this poor loser was kind of
how he was looked at. And Idon't know if everybody looked
at it that way. But that was myinterpretation of it. And so
what was beautiful, was afterhis funeral, well, there was no
funeral, which was insane. Andhis son that he loved so much,

(31:36):
his wife when they had divorced,made it so he could not see his
son anymore. And I honestlythink that's what just crushed
him. And of course, he didn't dothe work. It doesn't mean that
it was her fault by any means.
But I think that was the eventthat crushed him. And then he
went on probably more of analcoholic binge, because there
was a few years before he cameback to us with his brain tumor

(31:57):
that we hadn't seen him. And sothere wasn't a funeral. But I
had a celebration of life at myhouse. And people wrote these
amazing things in these cardsabout him, mostly, he worked at
the City of LA. And they hadwritten these beautiful things,
and I had always wanted to givethem to his son. And I've moved

(32:18):
so much, and I can't find them.
And that's it hurts my heartthat I don't know, they must
have gotten thrown outaccidentally or something. But I
always wanted to give him to hisson if I ever got in touch with
him.
Which, by the way, 23andme Wehave had some chats, but we
haven't been able to and we livein the same county now even. But

(32:40):
we haven't been able to keep incontact for whatever reason,
timing, you know, I'm leaving itup to the universe. I did open
the door, he seemed not like hewanted to meet, but he did, you
know, interact through thisemail through the site. Anyway,
going down a rabbit hole, afterhe had passed away after we had

(33:01):
had his celebration of life, ofwhich I played the guitar in his
honor, which those poor peoplelistening. But anyway, I think
it was like a month later. And Idon't even know how it got to
me. But a woman that was afriend of his then girlfriend,

(33:23):
got the guitar back to me. Andjust said, I, your uncle really
wanted you to have this guitar.
What's the big deal? That wasthe same guitar he used to play
when I was a child. And like, itwas so soothing and healing for
me that he would play and thewhole house would be bumping,
and I would lay down I rememberthere were a few instances at

(33:46):
his house in particular wherehe'd be sitting on the carpet
just playing. And I would justlay down in front of him and
listen to the music because itwas so soothing. And so healing.
I didn't even know back thenwhat what I was getting, but I
just loved it. I would followhim around and go. Uncle, are
you going to play the guitar?
Uncle? Are you going to play theguitar? So he gave me it came

(34:08):
back to me by these weird waysthat I don't even remember. And
I opened the case and there wasa letter from the woman that had
gotten it to me and she said,you know is basically your uncle
loved this guitar. He alwaystalked about you and he wanted
you to have it and it just feltright that you get it. And
somehow I feel like she went toI I can't remember if this was

(34:31):
snippets that I had heard aboutthe guitar because I remember
when he came back to a sick, Ihad asked where's your guitar
and he's like, I lost it. Youknow, I lost it. And I think
someone had mentioned that hehad lost it in like a drug deal
or maybe something. And so thisperson got it back to me through

(34:51):
I don't even know but I thinkoh, that was so like I still
have the guitar to this day andI go I actually let my daughter
use it because she is talented,and I'm not. But we keep and
it's not that big of a deal.
It's not a very expensiveguitar, but emotionally, it's
got so much, you know,attachment for me that it was

(35:14):
the symbol of hope it was asymbol of healing, it was a
symbol of peace and comfort. Sowe just keep patching it up. And
every year I take it to theguitar plays, and they, you
know, they keep it together. Andit works. And it sounds great.
But that's my that's my story,my estrangement story. And I do

(35:35):
hope one day that his son and Iget a chance to meet and or at
least that I can tell him, youknow, your dad wasn't perfect,
but he definitely loved you.

Charity Rodriguez (35:50):
That would be sweet. That would be super
special, if that were able tohappen. But all in due time.
Yeah, it's not ready to, youknow, to go there. For sure,
ready to accept whatever he mayfeel? Or whatever words you're

(36:13):
gonna say like, they have to beready and so may not be ready
right now. But why was there nofuneral. Like what happened? I
cannot remember. Like nothing.

Jennifer Wong (36:30):
I think by that time, my uncle was pretty much
he was pretty much estrangedfrom everybody. You know, I
think. And I didn't understandthat then. But after, you know,
being in the allanon program, Irealized he'd probably cut a lot
of ties. A lot of people hadn'ttalked to him in a long time.

(36:53):
And they just didn't know. Whatwe did do was we did have him
cremated. And my mom and I flewhis ashes to Idaho where he
lived for a period of time. Heloved it up there. And I did go
visit him up there. And we stoodon the Snake River, I remembered
where he was living at the time,and where we use where he took

(37:13):
us to go fishing. And he wouldalways say he loved it there.
And he was probably the happiestwhen he was there. Although
until you were really work onyour demons, they don't go away.
And so we we put his ashes inthe river there. That was really
beautiful.

Charity Rodriguez (37:29):
Okay, that is beautiful. That is beautiful.
That's beautiful. I wanthappiness and joy for people,
even with whatever people go on.
I wish closure and just thatsome recognition for them that
they're not forgotten. And I'mso happy that you didn't forget

(37:49):
him. You know, whatever. Likeyou said, whatever had happened.
And, you know, the estrangementgoes two ways, and people have
demons and you know, so forthand so on. But I know for me
personally, like, it's superimportant that people are not
forgotten, or discarded, or Iguess even abandoned. I think it

(38:16):
feels a little bit likeabandonment, and with
estrangement, and so that you'reable to do that is just, that's
awesome. Yeah.

Jennifer Wong (38:32):
And it's such a fine line. You know, because
there's codependency and there'sforgiveness, and there's trauma
work, and there's healing, andsometimes it's just too big. You
know, but it begins within us. Imean, it really does. If, if I
keep looking for other people tochange to be the way I want them

(38:53):
to, it's narcissistic, a littlebit like, well, what's my parts?
You know, what is my part inthis and hopefully, I can heal
that to get to a place of evenhealthy acceptance, you know,
detach with love, as opposed toputting up a wall. Yeah, we
don't need to throw people out.
We can still love them, but wedon't need to be in their space.

(39:14):
And I just I'm not saying thatthere is a right or wrong way.
This is just estrangement isestrangement. Sometimes it's
needed, sometimes it'snecessary, and sometimes it can
be healed, you know, but like wesaid in our forgiveness podcast
that forgiveness doesn't meanyou necessarily have to bring

(39:36):
someone back into your life.
forgiveness doesn't mean that ithas to be the way that it was.
Forgiveness means that we havemade peace with that in our own
hearts in our own lives so thatwe don't feel dragged down by
that anchor anymore. And it'sinteresting because with people
that I've done that with, I canbe around them but in small

(39:57):
doses in small doses, But somepeople might be physically
abusive, there's no way. There'sno way

Charity Rodriguez (40:06):
Oh, no, there's no way. But okay, can
you give an example of asituation with someone that you
were, you know, like that hasled you to go? I can put just as

(40:27):
small doses, like, what what wasthe situation? What was what
happened that was so that causedthat estrangement is I'm just
trying to I'm just trying to I,you know, I don't know, try to
figure for one of my siblings, Icould go, you know, whatever, I

(40:52):
can meet you where you are,like, I don't have a problem
with you. I mean, I, there aresome problems, like I know who
you are. And I can just,whatever, let it go. We don't
have to push things to, youknow, the level while I'm
constantly testing you andputting you in a situation where
you go, Uh huh. See, there itis, again, you did it and I knew

(41:15):
you were going to do it. Like,I'm not trying to set them up
like I I'll meet them where theyare, we can have events and get
together. And you know, justchit chat, I won't tell them
every detail about my life.
Because there was always thatfear of like, you're going to
turn on me. And that you don'tfully get why this strange from
you. And that's okay, but I canhave a conversation with you.

(41:38):
But then with the other one,there's like, Oh, heck no way.
New, new, new new way, I can'teven do a small dose, I can't do
anything with them. They have tobe completely, you know, cut
off. So, but you talk of it,where you can like you've been

(42:03):
able to

Jennifer Wong (42:06):
I also said sometimes you can't. I also said
sometimes you just can't. Yeah,that's why I don't think there's
a right or wrong,

Charity Rodriguez (42:16):
or you can to see if there's a hope is there.
Like okay, in that situation, Iguess I could I could do that.
Just trying to gauge Am I beingI don't

Jennifer Wong (42:25):
know, I always think about my mom, because my
mom and I have had a verystrange relationship since I was
born. And I really have had towork on that relationship. And
there have been so many timesthroughout our relationship that
I have been estranged from herfor prolonged periods of time,

(42:47):
maybe a year or more, I justcould not have any contact with
her because it was too painful,basically. Yet, I'd always come
back because she'd always be ata family function. And I didn't
have any tools. And I rememberearly on, I'd be limping through
it. And it would just be, I'd beso sick. I mean, I was sick. I

(43:13):
know she was there, I hadn'tdone any work on myself. So I
would have major anxiety, myheart would be beating, my mouth
would be dry. And this is justto see my mother. And it was
just so painful. I hated feelinglike that. Anytime I was around
her, I hated it. So years andyears and years, that's when I
started doing the work, Ithought I need to talk to a

(43:34):
therapist, I need to talk to ashaman, I need to talk to a
hypnotist. I don't care, I'll goanywhere, you know, if it feels
right in my heart, I'll do it. Idon't have any lines. I think I
gotta get out of the box. And sobut it's taken decades. And what
has happened is as that wall Ihad with her has slowly gone

(43:57):
down. It has also gone down withother people in my life, you
know, it isn't just that personbecause I'm changing. And so
when I change, my life starts tochange, you know, when the what
is it when they observe when theobserver changes, so does the
observed. That's like ascientific thing I've heard. But

(44:22):
it's true. Like when I startchanging my world changes
because my perspective haschanged my belief system has
changed my views on things havechanged not just in my head but
somatically as well. And youknow my mom and I we don't have
the greatest relationship andand I still feel those polls

(44:44):
like I should do more for her.
I'm not there enough for her.
And I have to remind myself No,I don't have to catch myself on
fire to keep her warm. I can bekind and loving it increments, I
can do moments, that's about allI can do, or moments I can't. I

(45:09):
can't do a lot, which I do getsad about that there is a
sadness that we always hope thatyou know, the people we love, we
can just have this easy, flowingrelationship. And we don't. And
that's just the way it is. And Ihate to say this, because I hate
to sound self righteous, or toput blame, but the woman hasn't
done any work. You know, shereally hasn't. And as much work

(45:32):
as I've done, I can only shiftso much like, I mean, I'm still
learning and anything canhappen. And I'm always open for
the possibility. But she justrecently, like a year ago, had a
really bad car accident. Andit's amazing that she walked
away unscathed. But she did, butemotionally, she's like, it

(45:53):
triggered all of her traumasthroughout her entire life. And
I suggested, you know, seeing atrauma therapist that does
somatic work, because it hashelped me so much. And I found
one in her neighborhood, Iconnected her with the woman,
she went and had maybe one ortwo sessions, and then she
didn't want to go anymore. And Ican't force it to happen. But

(46:20):
she tried. I see she tried, butshe just couldn't do it. So I
understand, you know, I get it,like some things are just too
big for us to bear. We're human,and it's just too heavy. And I
have to have loving compassionfor and I do, I can't even
imagine being her and how bigthat must feel it must be like

(46:43):
standing under a waterfall withyour mouth open. I mean, it's
just got to be way too much. Soshe does what she can do, I do
what I can do. And I love her. Icare about her, and I do what I
can do. From a distance mostly.
She's lonely, and I just can'tbe her companion. She's very

(47:03):
lonely. And she's, she's createdso much estrangement in her
life. And on one hand, you know,the old paternalistic support
says, well, she needs to fuckingdo something about it. And she
needs to go be accountable, andshe needs to get help. And then
the maternal side says, but shecan't, you know, and that's,

(47:25):
she's doing the best she can andI can just love her where she's
at. Which means that all myexpectations and ideas of how I
want it to be can't be. And Ihave to accept that and be okay
with it.

Charity Rodriguez (47:41):
Yes, yes,

Jennifer Wong (47:43):
she we're doing the best we can with what we
have in this moment. And so Ijust saw her yesterday, and I
can sit with her for about fiveminutes. And she draws me into
the drama. And she like blurtedout to me about something with
her car accident in theattorneys. And I just said,

(48:04):
Yeah, I remember you telling methat. I don't want to hear it.
You know, I see her suck otherpeople in the family into this
like hour long vomit session.
And I think you should be payingsomebody for that. And you don't
even need to you have Medicareor whatever, like, go get help.
That's not okay. But I will sayI don't think anybody has told
her. It's not okay for you to dothis. You need to go see a

(48:27):
therapist. I don't know whymaybe I need to. I've never said
that. But just like talkingabout it. I'm thinking, wow,
nobody has ever said that toher. You know, instead, we just
kind of avoid her. I'm maybe I'mgonna think about saying that,

(48:47):
you know, and there's power inprocessing. Like right now I'm
telling a story, and I amprocessing right here right now.
And that's when solutions comeup. You know, I think that's why
therapy works. I think that'swhy hypnosis works. I think
that's why somatic training andtrauma work works because we get
a safe environment to talk aboutit. And we come up with our own
answers, we have the answers.

Charity Rodriguez (49:11):
We can if we are willing to grasp them. What
is can you explain somatic work?

Jennifer Wong (49:20):
This is my understanding. So I am not here
to be a reference. But the ideais when we have emotional
trauma, which anything that isextreme in our emotional body.
It gets stuck. It gets stuck inthe actual physical body. So it
it somatic work takes it beyondtalking about it. So there's

(49:44):
talk therapy, you know, CBT whatis it? Behavior, behavioral
therapy, cognitive behavioraltherapy. There's all those
things, which are fine becausethe mind needs training to I
don't have anything against it,but it's only a piece of healing
is what in my experience whatI've gone through, because also

(50:05):
that emotion gets stuck in thebody. And we know this because
we have patterns. If we get intoa situation, even though we are
not physically threatened, wemay have a panic attack, which
means our heartbeats, our mouthgets dry, and there's nothing
really going on. Becausesomatically, it's in our body,
our body is reacting physically,to a trauma to an extreme

(50:29):
emotion, whether it's in frontof us or not, the mind could
just bring it right back up. Andso if we don't work on this
physical part, it just keepshappening. Because we can tell
ourselves all day long, oh, I'veworked through this, I've talked
through this, I have solutions,and I have done this, but still,
the body's going freaking out,right? That means there is a
missing link. And so the somaticwork that came to me, we barely

(50:53):
talk in therapy, we get to thetriggers, and then it's moving
it out. It's physically physicalmovements that help us to move
that trauma out of the body. Soit's very different than just
talking about it. Even it's verydifferent than hypnosis, except

(51:14):
the hypnosis that I work withpeople is actually has a somatic
component that I didn't evenknow because I was doing that in
2007, where somatic therapy Ihad never heard of, but it is
happening. So there has to be anengagement of going through this
emotional state of extremefeeling. And there has to be a

(51:35):
way to move it out of the body.
You can't just talk your way outof it. I don't believe that. And
so the somatic piece is, I feelvery important, otherwise, you
just keep bumping up againstthat wall. And I don't think
talk therapists have the toolsto move it out in that way,

Charity Rodriguez (51:53):
right? Yeah, they wouldn't have that training
of the Yeah, do that. If someonehas had their baggage, and they
just, it's easier for them tokeep loading up their, their
baggage, their bag of baggage,and to hold on to that tightly.
And that is all that they knowhow to do. And when things get

(52:17):
rougher tougher, they just triedto maybe shove it a little bit
deeper, but they just keepholding on to that baggage. And
to the point where it feels likeit has become another part, you
know, an appendage, if you will.
And sometimes it's easier. Imean, this is just my belief,

(52:37):
I'm not a therapist or anything,but I just believe that it's
easier for them to hold on tothat anger, sadness, stress,
trauma, whatever, it's justeasier for them to squeeze
tighter than to let go. Becauseall that they know, all that
they've been kind of trained todo, or the way that they have

(53:01):
soothed themselves has been tojust shove it deeper, just keep
shoving it deeper and just holdon tighter. And I do recognize
that it's hard, it's hard forthem to they don't know any
other way. They don't know anyother way of being, if they've

(53:22):
gone that long with that drama,this is their way of life. So to
talk to people of, you know,lightness of being and release
and being free. That's scary,because they may not know how to
deal with that freedom, they maynot know, they may not like that

(53:43):
feeling of being free and nothaving constant stress, full
thoughts and anxiety in theirbrains. Like they just don't
they don't have the tools tooperate in that life. The only
way they know how to operate iswhen there is chaos and drama.

(54:04):
So I do recognize that in youknow some people, right? And I
can say, Okay, I can't changeyou like, yeah, life would be so
much better, so much easier ifyou just

Unknown (54:22):
did this, like if you just just did a, b and c like,
look how it's helped me like itcan help you too. But

Charity Rodriguez (54:30):
then I'm not saying that there's no time. And
like you can't teach an old dognew tricks. You can try
absolutely everyone and anyoneshould try put that effort. But
we do have to recognize that andwe do have to accept that.

Jennifer Wong (54:49):
And I think that everything you just said there.
We have to ask ourselves thoseexact questions and ask are we
holding are we shoving are weunwilling are we not used?
Feeling free. And I believe thatwhen we ask ourselves those and
work on that, we have lessconcerned about others. We quit

(55:10):
trying to figure them out, wequit trying to offer them
solutions. Yeah, because we'reworking on ourselves. I mean,
I'm a full time job. Andmagically, when I'm working on
that, keeping within my hulahoop, other people kind of
softened to, because they'retired of being told, or, you
know, if even when I would walkaround with an energy of

(55:31):
smugness, I think people feltit. You know, and I have to look
at myself and forgive myself forthat, because my self
righteousness was still embeddedin my own in the ability to be
aware of my holding the traumaand shoving it down and not
being willing to be free, and tofree to look at all of it. So I

(55:53):
think everything you said therewas so right on, and I kept
thinking, those are the things Igotta keep asking myself, Who
cares what everybody else isdoing. I have enough shit right
here in my three foot Hulu, Imean, there is enough here to
work on for a lifetime. I don'tneed to work on anybody else's
stuff.

Unknown (56:14):
I work a lot with children.

Charity Rodriguez (56:17):
And you can tell parents come at this with
love, they want to protect theirchild, they want the best for
their child, they will give anddo everything for their child.
But when you say Well, the onething you need to give them is
independence. And they willbalk. They're like, well,

(56:40):
they're just three, like whatkind of independent, like they
can't do anything. But you willbe amazed at what a three year
old is fully capable of doing.
And when they get a littleinkling of that independence,
you will hear them say, I wantto do it myself. And some
parents hear that and they atthree years old, they're fearing

(57:04):
my child is rejecting me, thenthey go into overdrive of, I
will, I'll just I'll doeverything, and I'll buy them
everything. And I'll you know,just to make sure that there's
no rejection. But independencein small children is not a
horrible, terrible thing. Andit, yes, they will make

(57:29):
mistakes. Because they arethree, okay, three, and four,
and five and six, they aregrowing, and they are learning.
And we can give them the toolsto communicate to express to
recover, versus just implantingthem the same patterns that have

(57:53):
been implanted in ourselves.
And, but it's easier to do thatthan to put your hands by your
side. But, you know, we have totake into account that the child
is going to need some extratime, build that time in to

(58:15):
allow them to do what they needto do, versus you the adult
pushing it right to the limitand just going to whatever I can
just, I'll just grab, you grabthe shoes, throw you in the car,
and let's go, like, I'll get theshoes on you when we get to X, Y
and Z. But that's a key thing.
That's a key moment ofindependence for them for them
to be able to tie their shoes,for them to be able to pick out

(58:35):
their own clothes for them to beable to walk to the car to get
in to get themselves in. That isall very important. But we fail
to recognize that to see thatbecause we're kind of so as
adult, we're so past that. Andwe're just like this is just so

(58:56):
much easier. And they're they itout of love my I love my child,
I love them. I want to I don'twant any harm to come to them.
And I don't want them to sufferlike I suffered. And I don't
want them to have to deal withwhatever I had to deal with. So
I'm just going to do all ofthese things. But then, you

(59:18):
know, at some point that willthere will be some conflict, the
child will either acquiesce andjust be like, Whatever, I'll
just do whatever you tell me todo, because it's just easier
that way.

Jennifer Wong (59:30):
And that makes you codependence kicks in

Charity Rodriguez (59:32):
and then they don't know what makes them
happy. They've never developedtheir inner happiness, because
it's all been about you. Whiledo this to make mommy happy.
I'll do this to make daddyhappy. I'll do this to make the
teacher happy. I'll do this tomake my friends happy. And they
have no inner compass of whatthey like and don't like they're

(59:55):
just people pleasers. That'swhat they are So,

Jennifer Wong (01:00:01):
which can lead right into estrangement? Because
sometimes estrangement is oneperson telling another person
what they need to do, becausethey love them so much. And they
don't give them any freedom todo what they need to do. And let
things lie that acceptancepieces like crew out the window,
we love you so much. And inorder for me not to be so

(01:00:22):
burdened, I need you to do thisand this and this. And this,
it's really selfish. It is,

Charity Rodriguez (01:00:27):
it is, because it's all about, you
don't want that anxiety. So ifyou just do this, I won't be
anxious. And but then they don'tdo that. Right? And then it's a
rejection. And then you're nottalking to the other person
going. Okay, I understand this,you know, horrible thing has

(01:00:48):
just happened to you. How do youfeel about it? What are your
feelings? Like? What, what areyou thinking? How do you want to
deal with it? Versus Well, ifyou would have just done what I
told you to do, in thissituation in the first place.

Jennifer Wong (01:01:01):
So which is not

Charity Rodriguez (01:01:02):
a safe environment to do? No, it's not.
But because the person is like,I love you, and I'm trying to
help you, and I'm telling youwhat to do. And that's just kind
of the way that we as a, as asociety are built and programmed
and kind of told, you know, todo that, that's the best thing.

(01:01:25):
Parents know best.

Jennifer Wong (01:01:27):
And that's why these loving people need to look
at their own shit. Yeah,

Charity Rodriguez (01:01:31):
they do need to look at their own. And they
don't, and they won't. Becausefrom maybe from a generational
standpoint, that's just not whatpeople did. You don't want air
out your dirty laundry, youdon't like you have to get past
that first. Like, if I'm talkingto a therapist, I'm telling
them, although, you know,horrible thing. And once you say

(01:01:53):
it, you can't take it back. Andyou have to face it. It was
luggage, it was stuff that youstuffed into your baggage, and
it was you were holding itthere, but nobody saw it. And so
you were able to presentwhatever you want to present in
your own mind. But once you do,you hang it out, whether it's to
a therapist, to a friend towhatever, you can't unsee it,

(01:02:16):
you can't do it. And

Jennifer Wong (01:02:20):
it's the best gift

Charity Rodriguez (01:02:21):
thing isn't to undo, but just move on to let
it go and move on. But peopleget stuck, they can't move on.
Because all the time that ittook to build up those bad
habits all that time all ofthose years to be that person.

(01:02:44):
You're not is that going tohappen is that going to be
undone in one session, is thatgoing to be undone in two
sessions, it's not going to beundone with one event, it it's a
build up the same amount of timethat it took for you to build up
to get where you are is going totake you that same amount of
time to undo and get to the newyou are the new phase in your

(01:03:09):
life or whoever that new beingthat's experiencing new things
is going to be it's going totake time because you're going
to need you know, conversationsexperiences, introspective, you
know, analysis, you're going toneed all of that to get to a new
point. But people can'tawareness quick fix, like okay,

(01:03:36):
if I give this to you, likeyou're gonna fix it, right?

Unknown (01:03:38):
That's right. Well, that's not always the therapist

Charity Rodriguez (01:03:41):
does they don't you have to be wanting to
fix it can do you want to fixit? You know, are you willing to
go there to fix it? And it canbe pretty scary. Acknowledging
and facing that. Yeah, you'renot perfect. Yeah, you did some
things. You may have done it outof love. I understand that.

(01:04:02):
That's, you know, that's, I getit. But you did do it. Right.
You did yell you did scream andmaybe you did get physically
abusive. And people don't wantto face that in themselves
because they're like, Oh, I dolove you. And but it's hard
right? It's hard for us theperson on the other end to go

(01:04:23):
did you really love me likethat's a funny way to show love.
Ya know about that?

Jennifer Wong (01:04:31):
Yep. And shame loves silence. It grows and
builds in silence. And quickfixes are what America is all
about that just look at Amazon.

Charity Rodriguez (01:04:41):
Yes. So

Jennifer Wong (01:04:43):
but I think it's just there's a there's another
component in my mind to abouttiming and how to work on these
things. You know that this theenergetic the spiritual, the
universal component, there'salways that which I think gets
denied. I'd and so it's all ofmy will, you know, self will run

(01:05:05):
riot. I mean, we can only do somuch, it's not always of us. I
think of that all the time, wearen't even in charge of
digesting our food or how fastour hairs, hair and nails grow.
We aren't that much in charge ofthings we think we are. But
we're not. We're not. When ababy's as a mom, when the baby's

(01:05:25):
growing in our belly, we are notin charge of how that baby's
going to grow. We do not know ifit's going to come out healthy,
we do not know we are not incharge of so much in our lives.
And I think that's a big piecetoo. There's a lot of control
going on in this society. It'sall on us. It's everything we do

(01:05:48):
and say and feel and believe.
And I think that's a part.
Absolutely. But there's also thebigger parts. I mean, think of
people that have come into ourlives, I didn't know that that I
didn't call for that person. Ididn't know that person was
going to come out of the ethersand we were going to end up
being best friends or hate eachother or, you know, yesterday I
had a rocket, my windshieldsshattered the whole thing. I

(01:06:09):
wasn't in control of any of thatI'm just driving down the
street. So there are too manythings in this world that we're
not in control of either. And Ithink when we can apply that
well when I am not going to saywe are they are you when I can
apply that to my ownrelationships and estrangement.
It gives me peace. And it helpsme to see things from another

(01:06:31):
perspective, usually forgivingmyself, loving myself enough.
All the things that you havebeen speaking of, I think those
are the things I need to tellmyself, you know, not, I'm done
figuring other people out,although my mind has an ugly
habit of trying, I really haveto ask myself those questions.
You know, when I deal withestranged people in my life, and

(01:06:54):
there are other people thataren't even family members, it
could be coworkers, it could befriendships that I had for a
long time are now not speaking,you know, what was my part and
have I come to a place where Ican peacefully engage, have I
come to a place where I canstill detach with love, I can
still love this person and notneed to interact. And I have two

(01:07:15):
ex husbands that I've had plentyof practice with because I can't
estranged them, because I have adaughter that I need to raise
with them. So I mean, I'mconstantly getting ground up and
spit out on this one. But youknow, I think it, it can work. I
think that we have to just, Ihave to just look at myself, I

(01:07:37):
have to know myself, I have tounderstand myself, I have to
forgive myself, I have to dogive myself grace. And then
things tend to turn around. ButI pray. And I hope that
everybody has grace this holidayseason for themselves. That
would be my biggest wish is thateverybody feel Grace within

(01:08:01):
themselves feel compassionwithin themselves, give
themselves a break. Stop selfjudgment, stop that inner
critic. And then see whathappens. Like just go there.
Just go there and not have anyexpectations of what anybody
else is going to do or say. Butif you love yourself so much,

(01:08:24):
it's like armor. Yeah, and Ithink things change. I think
when people are in theenvironment of people that love
themselves. There's like adifferent feel. Yes. So that's
what I am going to say. Andthat's how I'm going to be

(01:08:45):
complete, I guess in thisdiscussion today. That's good.
How about you?

Charity Rodriguez (01:08:55):
I just, I don't know, I don't know. You're
right. People do need to detachwith love, and then have
compassion and stop selfjudgment. Like all of those
words, and I believe it.

Jennifer Wong (01:09:14):
So have you heard the Four Agreements?

Charity Rodriguez (01:09:18):
I have tried to read The Four Agreements. I
have like three copies of thatbook because so many people have
given it to me and I couldn'tget through it. I've tried I've
tried it I've talked to somebodyelse. I was like, tried to I
really wanted to but I justdidn't gel for me so I don't
know. But go ahead.

Jennifer Wong (01:09:40):
I was just thinking the Four Agreements
might be a good little recipe.
Okay, but do you have one ofthem is just don't take anything
personal was the one that stoodout to me. And everybody's doing
the best they can I can'tremember all four. I'd have to
look at I don't want to misquoteit right now in this moment, but
It was just the energy of thatbook that was coming up. It I,

(01:10:01):
when I read it, I felt like itwas armor, you know, especially
just don't take anythingpersonally, we take these things
personally because someone hitsour wounds that already exists.
Really?

Charity Rodriguez (01:10:16):
Yes, absolutely true. And for me that
was recognizing like, okay,yeah, I am wounded. And I am
taking it personally. And Idon't have to, and I can let it
go. And I can stop puttingmyself in a situation where
they're gonna keep pushing thatbutton or, you know, pushing on
that wound. So and there aremoments where I can be really

(01:10:38):
strong and just be like, Youknow what, charity, you are
strong charity, you are betterthan this charity. You can, you
can do this, you can get throughit, you can don't let it worry.
Sometimes I can do that. And itfeels awesome. When I do and it
clicks. And it feels natural.
And it's not for us. And it'slike I am in that moment, and I
believe it. And then there aremoments where I'm just saying

(01:11:00):
those words and they are empty.

Jennifer Wong (01:11:05):
Yeah, like all of us.

Charity Rodriguez (01:11:08):
Just say, I just want to go and cry. God,

Jennifer Wong (01:11:17):
yeah, yes.

Charity Rodriguez (01:11:21):
All right.
Well, there you go. Holidayholidays are coming upon this.
Let us not let it be a tragicwaste of time, you have
something that you want to saysomething to someone out of
love, like you really love thisperson, and you want them to
know that you love them, and notgive them an ultimatum of, I

(01:11:42):
will love you if you do XY andZ. Or if you can show to me that
you can be a better person, thenI'll tell you I love if you just
love that person, just say thatyou love them, and then just let
it go and move on. Don't let ityou do have control over whether
you will have regret. You dohave control over those things.

(01:12:05):
And you have to think about ifthis person were to kick over
today. Did they know that youlove them? Did you say it to
them? And were you able to saywhatever you needed to say? Like
every opportunity that you have,you know, every gathering every
moment that you get togetherwith with people, just be

(01:12:26):
honest, be your honest, self?

Jennifer Wong (01:12:32):
Yes. And that nothing is a waste of time.
Exactly. It's not there isn'twaste of time. If you're in a
situation, it doesn't ever haveto be wasted, because you will
get something out of it. You'realways getting something out of
it. Everywhere we go to be

Charity Rodriguez (01:12:50):
changing that person. You know, like you said,
we don't have to that's not justwhatever, just say what you need
to say. Think about the thingsthat you like, if you are at
their funeral. Think about whatwere those things that you
wanted to say to that

Unknown (01:13:05):
person. And you have to just say you are in control. You
can control that you can saythose

Charity Rodriguez (01:13:11):
things. Say it then don't wait until after
words because that's it. That'swithout conversation. That's

Jennifer Wong (01:13:18):
any expectations, without any expectations.
Exactly that you can't say itexpecting the response that you
have in your mind.

Charity Rodriguez (01:13:26):
Exactly.
Yeah, no. Because then you'resetting yourself up for failure.

Jennifer Wong (01:13:31):
Yeah, don't do that. And a wise woman told me
something once she said dosomething kind for somebody
today. Leave them alone.

Charity Rodriguez (01:13:43):
Did one Yeah.
And with that? All right. Justlet it go.

Jennifer Wong (01:13:50):
All right. Happy holidays.

Charity Rodriguez (01:13:53):
Happy holidays, everyone.

Unknown (01:13:57):
Yay.

Charity Rodriguez (01:13:58):
Thank you for listening to being effing honest
with your hosts, Jennifer Wongand charity Rodriguez. Subscribe
to our show wherever you listento podcasts. And if you have a
suggestion, question or topicyou want us to talk about,
connect with us at www beingeffing honest.com And until next
time, we hope you're alwaysbeing effing honest