Forgiveness

Final episode for 2022! We did it! First season in the 'can' as they say, and we're really happy with how it turned out. We end the year learning how to forgive; ourselves, family, others, and giving ourselves the permission to make mistakes, forgive ourselves, and try again. 

We want to thank everyone who listened, supported, and grew with us throughout 2022. We've learned so much, made great friends, and are genuinely grateful for being able to provide our listeners experience, strength, and hope.

We have big plans for 2023, so please join us as we continue learning about the power of sharing stories. 

Keywords: forgiveness , people , person , daughter , forgive , mom , situation , listening , work , life , meditation , thought , jennifer , walk , exoneration , wounds , feel , forbearance , put , ex husband 

Episode Transcript

Jennifer Wong (00:05):
Hello, and welcome to Our Podcast being
effing honest, I'm JenniferWong. And I'm Charity Rodrigues.
We invite you into ourconversations about everyday
issues experienced by everydaypeople. We share our stories
with honesty and humor, hopingto bring people together in
community by showing howvulnerability can deepen bonds

(00:25):
when done with kindness and nonjudgment. We know it's tough, so
we'll go ahead and go first

Charity Rodriguez (00:46):
Okay, so today's topic is on.
Forgiveness, forgiveness. Yes.
And oh, I forgot. Like, what doyou think of this as a title?
Forgiveness is a minefield?

Jennifer Wong (01:00):
Hmm.

Charity Rodriguez (01:02):
Too much? Too much, too.

Jennifer Wong (01:04):
I think forgiveness is more of like a
healing. I don't, I don't know.
I think forgiveness is more of ahealing. It's like a benefit to
the self. It's not something wegive to anybody else. But
ourselves. Something like that.
I don't know if it's aminefield, it is, it definitely
is. It can but why do we do it,you know, if it's a minefield, I

(01:28):
don't want to do it.

Charity Rodriguez (01:32):
The process or the the act of can be a
minefield,

Jennifer Wong (01:38):
is what can be maybe can be, can be, so that
change,

Charity Rodriguez (01:43):
or it doesn't have to be is but it can be so.
But I

Jennifer Wong (01:51):
or it could be forgiveness, minefield to, to
healing, or minefield tofreedom. I mean, forgiveness is
freedom. That's the bottom line

Charity Rodriguez (02:02):
field. To freedom, okay, I'm gonna go with
that one, a minefield to freedomto freedom. So I looked it up.
Because I was having adiscussion with my husband,
about, you know, forgiveness.
And he's like, Well, you know,it's in the word it's giving,
you are giving of yourself,you're giving something to

(02:22):
someone else. Whether they takeit or not, is a whole different
thing. But it's to give forgivesomething. So he was like, oh,
yeah, I got that part. But,okay, I looked it up, it says,
forgiveness, a conscious,deliberate decision to release

(02:43):
feelings of resentment, orvengeance toward a person or
group who harm you. And I waslike, okay, all right, I can I
get that, that's fine. I can gowith that. And then further
exploration says that there arethree types of forgiveness. So
the first one is exoneration.

(03:07):
The second is forbearance. Thethird is release. The first one
exoneration, you are wiping theslate clean, like you just get a
whole reset, you hit the resetbutton, and you can forget
everything in anything, go backto an innocent time of you know,
within your relationship, andeverybody's all happy. The

(03:30):
third, the second isforbearance. And that's a
partial apology where the personwill put some kind of blame
something that you you did madethem do what they did, and
they're sorry, but it's not atotal. Yeah, Mia culpa. It's

(03:54):
just allows the person to beable to continue having a
relationship with you, but theydon't completely say that it's,
it's their fault. And then thethird, the release, it allows
you to let go of pain, of anger,of resentment. It does not

(04:15):
exonerate the offender oroffenders, it does not require
forbearance, and you do not haveto continue that relationship.
It just gives you permission torelease to just let it go and
move on with your life. So

Jennifer Wong (04:33):
where did you find that because I've never
heard that. So I'm like, wow,

Charity Rodriguez (04:39):
I just found that on the internet. It was a
an article from this guy. I willforward it to you. And and I
liked that I like those threeareas because I just felt like
okay, that I fit in one ofthose. Just going with the old
school thing by able definitionor you know what you always

(05:02):
hear? I was like, Oh, how am Igoing to talk about this?
Because I, I just like, I'm notthere. I can't, and I haven't
forgiven completely andabsolutely, and, you know, in
the situations that I wasthinking of, but this, that
definition, those three, oh, nowI had an option of like, oh,

(05:23):
okay, I see where I fit withinthe world of forgiveness. So,

Jennifer Wong (05:29):
and I think that's a big thing is getting
rid of these old ideas andbeliefs of what forgiveness was.
So I grew up thinking,forgiveness, forgive and forget.
And it wasn't easy, becauseevery time I'd get around a
person that I was angry with, orfelt hurt by, it would just come
right back up, and then I hatedthem all over again. So forgive
and forget, was never going towork. But I felt like that's

(05:52):
what I was taught. trueforgiveness was is you just
forget, and you let everybodyback in and everything's fine
and dandy, and you're the biggerperson. Well, that never worked
for me. And then when I starteddoing it, I learned kind of like
what you had just come up with.
There are rules to forgiveness.
And when I would work with myhypnosis clients, we do a whole
session just on forgiveness,because it's so healing. But

(06:16):
like we talked about, it's alsoa total mind. Fuck, basically,
because in your head, you'rethinking you have to do
something that is emotionallyimpossible to do. It's like how
am I just going to completelyforgive and move on with my life
and let bygones be bygones? It'scrap, it doesn't work like that.

(06:36):
I don't, maybe a miracle happenswhere you are enlightened. But
as a human being, I don't thinkit's that easy. It's not that
easy. And some of the when,because I was trained by my
teachers on forgiveness, andsome of the things that I
learned, like you had said aboutyour husband, it's giving. And

(06:56):
one of my teachers said, youknow, when you've reached
absolute forgiveness, when youcan look at the person,
organization or situation andsay, Thank you for giving me
this experience. Thank you forgiving me the spirit experience,
because, and I found that true.
When I totally am able toforgive somebody, I see it as an

(07:18):
opportunity for growth for me,instead of I was wronged and
it'll never be right. Becausebefore I just wanted people to
pay, like, yeah, we're not goingto be even until you pay. You've
got to pay for this pay, pay paypay pay. And, and when is
enough, right? Like, right,really, when you're in that
space? Do you ever receive fullpayment to where you're like,

(07:44):
good? No, because it's not aboutthem? Like you'd also said, it
has nothing to do with them.
Forgiveness is about ourselves,about setting ourselves free.

Charity Rodriguez (07:54):
That's it?
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's

Jennifer Wong (07:57):
not about them.
They're gonna go on with theirlife half the time, they don't
even know what they've done.

Charity Rodriguez (08:01):
Yeah, that's true. A lot of people don't know
what they've done, and theydon't see the problem. So that's
why Yeah, I had realized that alot of things in my life was
through my eyes. And thatwasn't, I was projecting things
onto other people that they havedone with this slide. And they
need to do X, Y, and Z. But Ididn't communicate that with

(08:24):
them. That was just myperception of the situation I
had loaded that, you know,experience that discussion, you
know, whatever, with all of thisbaggage or, you know, backstory,
whatever that they may have beenaware of, they may not, it
didn't matter. And so a lot oftimes, I did have to just let it

(08:46):
go. Like, why was I looking forforgiveness? You know, I had to
ask myself that question. Butthe the exoneration is the one
that we've been taught, like, ifthat's it, that just wipe the
slate clean, get back to thatinnocent time, get back to that,
you know, like, pretend that youdidn't know all of this other

(09:07):
stuff that had been revealedabout, you know, the situation
about each individual. And Iagree what you said, That's not,
that's not realistic, that's nothealthy. That's not good for
your mental health, your wellbeing for your sanity.

Jennifer Wong (09:24):
So right, right.
And, and I think I heard yousay, I had to ask myself,
because you'd said you kind offront loaded it. And then you
had to ask yourself, why did yousay why I want to forgive or why
I'm angry. I can't remember.
Well,

Charity Rodriguez (09:40):
why am I seeking forgiveness from that?
Yeah, do I want them to forgive?
You know, what am I asking ofthem to forgive and I had to do
a lot of, you know, explorationand intellectual to I try to be
as honest as possible withmyself and with whatever
situations I'm in In. And thattakes a moment like, you have to

(10:01):
stop and pause. Because ifyou're not getting what you
want, you're not getting any andI get it, you're not getting it
have to look at okay, why? Why?
What was my role in theactivity, the situation? You
know, what was their role? Didthey have everything that they
needed to understand what, whereI was coming from? Did I

(10:26):
communicate everything so thatwe were all clear, and we were
all on the same page. Andsometimes it's not, you're not
on the same page. You know, somesimple example, you could be
like, let's go to the park. Andyou're like, Yeah, and you
putting all of this, we're gonnahave a picnic, and we're gonna
go hiking, and we're gonna go doall of this stuff. And the other

(10:49):
person is just like, I just wantto go to the park and sit down.
And we're just gonna chill.
Like, that's it, we'll have someconversation now, I'll meet with
you, I'll talk with you. But ina very simple, like, I really
don't want to do 100 things. Andhere I am coming at it with but
I, you know, I went to thefarmers market, and about all
these things, they made you, youknow, these foods, and I bought

(11:11):
out my best linens to lay outand, you know, then I got, you
know, hiking shoes. Like, whydidn't you bring your hiking
shoes? Like, what's up with thatwe were gonna go hiking, like
we're in the park. Like, whywouldn't you want to go hiking?
You know? And it's like, yeah,no, you know, did you
communicate all of that inadvance? No, I did it. It was
just an expectation that I hadplaced there. Because I was so
excited. I thought, certainly,this is the level of excitement

(11:34):
they were going to be at. Soit's, you know, things like
that, that you have to reallystop and think and that's a
simple situation scenario that Iset up.

Jennifer Wong (11:45):
But you did say personal accountability. And I
think that is a huge piece toforgiveness. Like, who created
those expectations? Did I frontload those expectations? Was it
agreed upon was it communicated?
So some because my teacher hadtold me, he wrote a book on
emotions, and this was myhypnosis teacher way long time
ago. And he said, Each, likeemotion has kind of a mental

(12:09):
construct. So forgiveness is theresult of feeling anger, and
anger is the result of feelingthat we were done wrong. So
either someone did me wrong,which we have to check our
expectations. Was it me overexpecting or was it really a
wrongdoing? And then the otherthing we we feel that was wrong

(12:34):
is when we watch, like peoplebeing harmed, like children, you
know, being harmed, we getangry, right, we get angry, and
we want to do something aboutit. So we have to go back to I
think that helped me tounderstand where I need to put
my forgiveness and myunderstanding and acceptance,
right, is it? Is it me that Ineed to forgive myself for

(12:57):
having such high expectationsand let it go? Or was there
actually a wrongdoing? And thenI have to find a way to forgive
that wrongdoing? Because we canI have been able to like
communicate the wrongdoing. Butit doesn't necessarily mean that
even an apology would do it forme, if that makes sense. So it's

(13:17):
really about the self. I thinkthere is a little bit of a
balance, but most of the workhas to happen inside of me. I
can't expect here again, I mayfront load and expectation that
they're going to see it my way.
Totally apologize. And theneverything will be fine. And

(13:37):
that's not that's rarely everthe case. And I had someone say
two things. Anger, andresentment is like drinking
poison and hoping the otherperson dies. Or it resembles a
snake bite, because if you thinkabout it, a snake bites us.

(14:01):
People don't die from the wound,we die from the venom that keeps
coursing through our bloodsthrough our bloodstream. So once
there is an action ofwrongdoing, and we let the venom
keep moving through our body,we're the ones that are dying,
they're done. They're off,they're gone, you know. Yeah. So
it's really about working withthe self really about working

(14:24):
with the self.

Charity Rodriguez (14:25):
That is so true. Wow. You put it that way.
It's like last June, we do we dohave to work a lot on ourselves.
And I think that of the three Imostly operate with release, I
don't like I used to wantexoneration from the person.

(14:49):
Sometimes I got the forbearanceand that was never enough. And
then I just I don't know as Iwas going along throughout life,
just got to a point of I justhave to let it go, I can't hold
it in anymore. And so I have tobe, I just have to release it.
And it doesn't matter what theother person said or does, I

(15:10):
don't care if they come in ornot. But it also takes time,
like I need time, yes, to let itnot sticking to net, it not be
so uncomfortable for me not toget so tight, and you know, grit
my teeth. And I always askmyself, if I see that person,

(15:32):
group, whatever situation, youknow, walking down the street,
can I? Am I going to just keepwalking? Can I say hi, and keep
walking? Or am I immediatelygoing to turn around and run and
hide. And, you know, when I canget to the point of length, I
can just, Hey, how's it going?
You know, and keep walking, thenit doesn't bother me anymore.

(15:56):
And I don't care. Like theydon't have to come back and say
anything to me, they don't evenhave to acknowledge it, they
don't have to ever talk about itagain, because I just don't care
any more is not worth it. Andthat just takes time. I know I
can get to that point. But Ineed time. And sometimes it'll

(16:16):
be a lot shorter. Like there's ashorter window of like,
whatever, you know, and I canreassess the situation reassess
my involvement with them. Anddoesn't really matter in the
greater scheme of things. No,okay, let's just keep going. But
sometimes it's like, oh, no, weare stopped right here right

(16:37):
now. And I cannot move I am likeweighted with cement. And I'm
not moving forward. And it'shard to try to let it go.

Jennifer Wong (16:50):
Yeah, it does take time I, I remember studying
with Michael Beckwith onforgiveness, he had a CD. And a
long time ago, probably. Let'ssee 2008 I was listening to a
lot of his work. And he did a Iwant to say it was like an audio

(17:10):
workshop on forgiveness. Andwhat I really still remember to
this day is he said, It's notsome sappy, syrupy, spiritual
thing that you just all. Hegoes, it takes work. And it
takes time. It takes likeconsciousness on our part to
really want that freedom. Ittakes that consciousness and
willingness for us to look atourselves, look at our part, to

(17:32):
go deep. And, and then when Ilearned about the Heart Math,
that this can't be of the mind.
I mean, that's why it's a mindfield. Because we're trying to
do it in our mind, we have to doit from our heart. It has to
come from this place of love andlove, His grace, love doesn't
keep score, love doesn't have aone up love doesn't make sure

(17:52):
things are even it. And gettingto that spot is really
difficult. And well, it is forme, it's gotten way easier over
the years. But it was reallyhard. And the other thing that I
remember was my hypnosis teacherhad said there are rules to
forgiveness. And I was like, oh,there are. And I think, let me

(18:14):
see if I can remember them all.
But one of the rules was, youdon't have to tell the person,
you forgive them. You never haveto say, Oh, I forgive you, that
never has to happen. You don'thave to invite that person back
into your life, which I thinkwas the third thing you had said
on your definitions. Andforgiveness is totally about the

(18:41):
self. Those were the threethings. And I thought that was
so huge that I didn't have totell the person. And I didn't
have to bring him back. Ithought true forgiveness is when
I can be around them, and becompletely calm and peaceful
again. And that's not true. Andforgetting isn't a good thing.
Because we need to rememberwhere we've been. And we're not
to put ourselves again, forboundaries. I mean, this relates

(19:03):
to our last podcast aboutboundaries. Because once you
have these experiences,hopefully we grow and we learn
from them. And there aredefinitely things in that
experience that we should notjust forget and put ourselves
back in that space again, likethat. Oh, I totally that would
be totally irrational. Right?
And there are some times whereI've had forgiveness where I've

(19:26):
gotten closer to the person. Andthere are other times where I've
completely forgiven somebody andI've known we need space because
it's just a toxic relationship,you know, because of my wounds,
their wounds, my expectations,their expectations. I usually
leave it to the wounds thing,because I think we're all
wounded in some way and maybethat's part of my journey is to

(19:47):
heal. So, you know, in it's allhow we put it into our belief
system or perspectives orwhatever, right, whatever it is,
how we throw it into our valuesystem is eventually They have
begin to believe in things andfeel in the things. So, you
know, for me, it's that we'reall running around with wounds,

(20:09):
some larger, some smaller,different ways, different
places, different experiences,dear different expressions of
these wounds, but I genuinelybelieve that we are born good.
And conditioning and woundingcreates this path that we have
to walk on. So, like one of thefirst forgiveness as I had was

(20:30):
with my mom, we have nevergotten along. And even though I
love her, because she's my mom,and there are things about her
that are beautiful and amazing,which I will say I couldn't say
that 10 years ago, that I thinkI finally came to peace, where I
could forgive her, where it feltlike it shifted, when I could

(20:54):
say, you know, I imagined hercoming to my house, coming
through the front door in awheelchair and not having any
legs. And me standing in frontof her and expecting her to
stand up and give me a welcomehug. And I thought that is never
gonna happen. That just can'thappen, because she's so

(21:19):
wounded, right? Just like as ifshe was in a wheelchair with no
legs, she could not walk. It'sthe same that she cannot be the
person I need her to be. Right,you know, and she never could,
weather. And I think I had totake blame out of it. Because I
want to blame people, I want tosay, Well, if you would have

(21:41):
just done this, and this andthis, if you could just see
this, this and this, why aren'tyou just this seems like total
normal, common sense. But Ithink some people just can't see
that. I know, I can't. You know,it's, as we talked, it's not
about them. I know I cannot, Icannot sometimes see where I'm
hurting people, I cannotsometimes move beyond something

(22:04):
so that I can create a connectedrelationship. So I think the
more I got in touch with thatvisual with my mom, I also saw
myself in some instances withoutlegs. And then I gave myself a
break. And then guess what, thenI quit being an asshole to so
many people, you know, so it wasjust a really interesting, like

(22:26):
full bodied exchange. And, andthen I came upon the whole
oponopono meditations fromHawaii, that are really good
about forgiveness. They'rebeautiful. I'm

Charity Rodriguez (22:39):
not familiar.
What are those?

Jennifer Wong (22:45):
Let's see. And so I I want to put this out there
that for the purists of wholeoponopono, I'm going to say if I
do get this wrong, I apologizebecause I studied it 10 years
ago, and then I've kind ofadopted my own version of it, so
that I could feel it andunderstand it. And then I taught
it, I would do guidedmeditations, but I which I

(23:07):
thought as we did themeditation, recording, maybe I
can do a version of her opponentona which I will not call it
that. But I will call it aforgiveness meditation that we
could add for our subscribers aswell. Okay. But it's basically
this visualization where you getcentered and you put yourself in

(23:32):
front of people, organizations.
I want to say things, but it'susually people or organizations
that you have felt wronged wherethere's a disconnect where
there's any negative energy in arelationship. And then in this
visualization, you fill yourselfwith love, and then you share

(23:52):
the love, you surround the spacewith love. And then you
basically say to that person inthis meditative state I forgive
you for and then you also say,please forgive me for and I
offer you loving kindness,basically. And it's very, very
powerful. And I do a coupleother little things that kind of

(24:14):
cut energetic cords and stuff.
But it's really powerful. Andthe first time I did it with one
of the who knows my years ofbeing on the self help train,
but I was in a workshop with aman that did a whole pono pono
meditation with the group and heeven prefaced it. Well, no, I

(24:36):
think after the meditation, hesaid, Now don't be surprised if
people that you have not thoughtabout or been estranged from
reach out to you in some way.
And I swear to you that somebodytexted me within like a day of
doing that meditation that I hadnot talked to in a long time of
which we had a veryuncomfortable relationship. A

(24:57):
crazy sell.

Charity Rodriguez (25:03):
Okay, that is crazy, is very crazy. But that's
also wonderful to hear thatyou've had the opportunity to
connect with that person andperhaps address whatever the
issues are.

Jennifer Wong (25:19):
I didn't get I didn't that was the beautiful
thing they reached out. And thenI just reached back with a
hello. And that was it. Wedidn't need to write I because I
realized I don't need to bringthis person back into my life.
And I just naturally let it go.
And that was it. And it feltgood. It was like, Alright,
cool.

Charity Rodriguez (25:41):
are good. Do you find yourself? Or did you?
You know, perhaps not now,because you've said you've been
on the self help train for awhile, you find yourself doing
the same things with individualswhere you were constantly
seeking forgiveness afterward?
Like, was there a pattern towhat was going on in your

(26:03):
interactions with people? Or wasit sure every situation was
unique to every single?

Jennifer Wong (26:15):
I think it's a little of both, of course, they
seem unique, right? Butessentially, the common
denominator is me, in everysituation. So when I would start
shifting my behaviors throughhonestly, self forgiveness and
self love, then the patternschanged. But yeah, I have

(26:40):
patterns of Yeah. Totalpatterns, wondering, you know,
what's that? What is insanity?
Doing the same thing over andover and hoping for a different
outcome?

Charity Rodriguez (26:48):
Yes.

Jennifer Wong (26:50):
So there was a lot of that. Looking at by self
is one of the hardest things Ithink we can do with honesty, it

Charity Rodriguez (26:59):
is, it is.
And just because you're lookingat yourself with honesty doesn't
mean that the other person isand or ever will write, you
know, look at themselves withhonesty. So you can only do so
much. And you do have to get tothat point of what's it going to

(27:21):
take for you to let go move on.
Forgive whatever you're seeking.
Where What's that point for you?
Because yeah, you're not alwaysgoing to get what you want from
another person, you're just not,you're the one on the self help

(27:42):
train, they are not necessarilyon the same journey, the same
path, they could be just like,you know, I'm gonna put my
headphones on and, and put myblinders on and I am fine. Don't
care about, you know, anyoneelse like just, and this is what
they need to get through theirlife to get through their

(28:05):
journey. that's those are the,you know, the armors that they
have put on themselves to getthrough. And you may, you know,
yes, we are all wounded. We areall, like walking zombies in
just going through life, becausethat's the way it is. For some

(28:26):
people, but the majority ofpeople, we don't know what we're
doing, we don't necessarilytaught how to communicate with
people. And some of us weretaught to communicate in
correctly, like the patternsthat were set up in our lives.
Were not the most healthy,positive, you know,
interactions. And this is justas a parent, you can read all

(28:51):
the books you want to, and belike, Okay, I'm going to be
ready. And you know, when thissituation presents himself, I'm
gonna say this to my child, butthen sometimes, like, it's just
not working. And you just resortback to what, you know, what is
the quickest and fastest thingyou can reach for that you swore

(29:12):
to yourself? I'm never gonnayell at my child. I did this,
let them see me, you know, feelangry like this because it
scared me when I was a kid. I'mjust not gonna do that to my
child. And then there you are.
You find yourself in thatsituation. You're yelling at
your child and you're like,you know, I swore I wasn't going
to do it. I I had all the stepsand everything I was supposed to

(29:35):
do. Itjust, you know, didn't work out
that way that day, right? Butyou do have to have forgiveness
with yourself so that you canhit the reset button with
yourself so that you can moveforward and try again. Like just
because you had one bet 235 Youknow Episodes of like, whoo,

(29:59):
could have done that better. Weare all human. And you just need
to keep trying.

Jennifer Wong (30:09):
Yep. Bam. That's it. That's it. We have to give
ourselves grace. I think selfforgiveness is way more powerful
than forgiveness of others. ButI think, yeah, you have to do
whatever you're led to do,right? Yes, absolutely. And I
think it's more of a beinginstead of a doing, I almost

(30:33):
feel like for me, it wasn't thethings I did. It was the things
I allowed myself to be with, bewith. Even having to be with how
I admonished myself for yellingat my kids, like, just be with
that. Be with that, and then bewith this gunk in this

(30:58):
discontent in my being. Icouldn't really get past that I
kept trying to go on the surfaceof that forward. And I mean,
there was improvement, becausethere always is when we are
conscious and aware. But it tooka long time. I mean, this has
taken a long time. And I don'tthink the funny thing, I was

(31:19):
talking to my girlfriendsrecently, and I don't think it's
taking as long anymore. There'ssomething going on since COVID.
I think change can happen somuch faster than it used to. I
mean, come on. We're in five Gwith our phones, like everything
is happening faster. So whywouldn't it happen with us? You
know, I think that's why there'sa lot coming to the surface. But

(31:41):
anyway, that's anotherdiscussion. But I just I guess I
want to know, I don't know, Iwant to say that even though I
keep saying it took me a longtime. It doesn't have to take a
long time. I don't think itdoes.

Charity Rodriguez (31:58):
It doesn't.

Jennifer Wong (31:59):
And in all honesty, so but I have a
forgiveness story that I love toshare. This one did not take
long at all. On that note. WhenI got divorced from my first
husband, my daughter was four.
And in six months after we likeafter I moved out of the house,
the divorce probably wasn't evenfinalized for six months, maybe

(32:21):
a couple months. I show up to myfour year olds spring program, I
think it was at her school. Andher school is awesome. Because
she was at a private school. Itwas all German based and we
loved it. It was beautiful. Andwhen we would go to these events
at our school, these shows, theywould have food like full blown

(32:46):
German food, they would havewine and beer. It was an event.
And so I show up. I think he hadcustody of my daughter at that
time. But I was bringing herdress I bought her a dress to
wear for this event. I show upto the classroom. I bring her
the dress. And when I walk in,she runs up to me and she goes

(33:08):
mommy, mommy, mommy, you'llnever guess what I have a new
mom. What are you you have a newmom, I didn't know what she was.
I was just laughing and theteachers looking at me kind of
funny. I didn't know. So I justbrushed it off. And I said oh
yeah, really? That'sinteresting. What are you
talking about? And as she wastrying to explain it to me, my

(33:30):
ex husband comes through theother door with a woman on his
arm and says, Oh, Jennifer, Iwant you to meet my fiance. And
I went whoa, I didn't even knowthat he was dating anybody. I
mean, this was really soon afterour, you know, we were separated
maybe six months. And here's heis engaged. So I'm blown away.

(33:53):
I'm taken aback. And i My heartis sinking further into my
stomach as I watched my daughterrun up and give her this amazing
hug. Call her mom. And then thewoman's just all smug and happy
and just smiling from ear to earand I am thinking what the fuck

(34:17):
is going on here. And I justlike all my triggers go up. I am
in a panic. I am totallytraumatized. Like, but I didn't
know it back then. And I'm myheart's beating. My head is
swimming. I can't see straight,My cheeks are flushed, my blood
pressure must have beenskyrocketing. And I have to act
cool. Because there's all thesestrangers. Well, not strangers,

(34:42):
but her school is standingaround watching this go down and
I'm just like, Oh, okay. So theyleave. I go back out my mom, my
stepmom, my dad. My sister, myAuntie's had all come. So now my
family's there. I walk back outto them. And I said, I think
Keith is engaged. And Jay justcalled this woman, her new mom.

(35:05):
And I was like shaking by now. Idon't know what the hell like,
it's awful. So she does herlittle concert and the entire
time, I'm watching him with thiswoman. And then this woman has
like a very grown daughter. Whatis going on? And I'm just
thinking, new mom. No effingway. I am getting up there to

(35:29):
that stage, and I'm gonna get mydaughter before anybody, you
know, I am just going to push myway to prove that I am the mom.
I mean, the scariest thing in myworld was to lose my daughter
right to lose your child. Yeah,I didn't realize losing my child
emotionally was just asimpactful as a death. But that's
what I was going. It was almostlike I'd gotten a call that she

(35:50):
was in a car accident. That'show my body was reacting. So I
went up to the stage. And Isaid, Oh, honey, that was
amazing. And she gave me a hug.
And immediately behind me is herdad and the stepmom. And she
lets the stepmom opens her armsand takes my daughter out of my
arms. And so she's holding herand I'm just standing there with

(36:13):
my job, like, what is going on?
And then my ex husband looks atme and he goes, Jennifer, I want
you to meet so and so. Myfiancee, and as she's holding my
daughter, she puts her hand inmy face and shows me the big
rock. Oh, yeah, we're gettingmarried. And I was like, Oh,
that's wonderful. And she turnsaround and walks away with my

(36:34):
daughter. And I'm standingthere. Motherfucker. Hardest
thing. So it gets better. Sothen we're standing in line to
eat our food. And it's alwaysthis big mad rush. And it's a
long line. And I'm walking bythe line to get to my family,
because I'm just totally out ofmy being. And she taps me on the

(36:56):
shoulder. I don't know where mydaughter is. And she said, Well,
now that we're all family, wejust need to get along. I'm
like, I don't even know you. Andhow do I know we're not getting
along? What is up, I wascompletely devastated. So that
went on. And then after that, mydaughter, I would pick her up
from school. And instead ofrunning up to me, like she used

(37:18):
to to give me a hug, she'd say,Why didn't my real mom pick me
up? I want my real mom to pickme up. Oh, yeah. And she'd run
off. And I would just bestanding there trying to collect
myself. And back then I had notools. This was the breakdown
before any breakthrough in mylife. And this went on, and then
I would have my daughter. Andshe'd say I want to use my phone

(37:42):
to call my mom and dad. Yeah.
And she'd get on the phone withthem on speaker and they'd be
having this lovely familyconversation. And then I tried
to have a conversation with myex husband, which if anybody
does this in the first place, Ishould have known better than to
try to have a rationalconversation with him. And I

(38:02):
wanted to express that I thinkJade is confused. I mean, she's
calling her her real mom, I knowshe came out of my vagina.
That's not possible. And hesaid, Well, there's no love at
your house. And I let her knowthat this house is full of love.
And this is her new family.
That's what he told me. I was upagainst everything. I had every
reason to hate him. And that bitshe wrote in with I was angry.

(38:24):
And so then that's when I had myprobable stroke and was in the
hospital for four days becausethey didn't know what was going
on. I did a bunch of tests, andthey showed all that stuff on my
brainstem. And you know, thatwas when the doctor came in and
said, you know, you're lucky tobe alive, young lady, one more

(38:45):
millimeter on your brainstem andyou would be dead. And then I
was like, oh my god, I'm alive.
Yay. But then it sank in like Ialmost died. So during my
hospital stint, I was there forfour days. I asked my ex
husband, can I please have Jade,I just really need to see her. I
just need to see her and Ididn't look scary. You know,

(39:07):
there wasn't tubes or anything.
I was the I was really in forobservation. And he said, Well,
you can't because I made plansto take her to Disneyland with
my fiance. So he didn't let hercome for two or three days. And
finally my step mom and dadstepped in and said, Look, can
we just have her for an hourwe'll pick her up and did it and
I did get to see her but theentire hour she was just like, I

(39:28):
gotta go. I gotta go. I gotbetter things to do. You know?
It was awful. And it went onthis went on for probably six to
eight months. It went on for awhile. So I during that time, I
was now trying to heal my bodybecause I'd had this stroke that

(39:50):
I was I was unable to walkreally. I had a cane three
quarters of my body was numb. Iwas really really sick. So I'm
in this process of trying toheal my relationship with my
daughter heal my body. And Iremember thinking, I can't even
drive her to school right nowI'm gonna lose her 100% I was
terrified. And then I got angry.

(40:15):
And then I hated them. And thenI came across the secret, which
was a big, like self helpdocumentary in the early 2000s.
And I ended up studying with oneof the speakers on the show, I
really resonated with him, and Ifelt it was a good place to be.

(40:36):
So I took all my savings. And Iwent to San Francisco. And I did
a two day workshop with 600other people. And he talked
about forgiveness. And he talkedabout this being an inside job.
And he talked about freedom. Andhe talked about healing. And I
thought, when I left there, Ihave to work on this forgiveness

(40:58):
thing I just have to. And myaunt, who by the way, she's on
our website. Now the one thatbrought us together, she went up
there with me, she didn't do theworkshop, but she always likes a
good trip to San Francisco. Sowe shared the hotel room. And on
the way home, I think we diddrive separately because I knew
like I think it ended on aSunday morning and my daughter

(41:21):
had another show at her school,this was going to be the next
show months later after thatfirst incident. So the entire
seven hour drive from SanFrancisco to Laguna Beach, I was
just practicing how I was goingto
be in my heart and I was goingto be forgiving, and I didn't
even know shit aboutforgiveness. But I just knew I

(41:43):
had to do this. And duringbefore this, anytime we were in
one of these family gatheringswhere we all had to be together.
My ex husband would carry mydaughter everywhere, she would
never want to hug me touch mehang out with me or see me and
there were other events with theschool. And I remember like

(42:03):
being so sweaty, my armpits aresweating. My ass was sweaty, I
was sitting on a bench I gotthere early to the show, I had
my seat. And I was justsweating. And I thought, oh my
god, I'm not even gonna lookgood. When I do this, this is
gonna be terrible. But I knew Ihad to do it. They walked in. He
was holding my daughter, he wastrailing his now wife because

(42:24):
they were now married. And and Iwalked up and I saw her, the
wife and I hugged her and Isaid, Hey, how are you guys
doing. And she was totallyshocked that I wanted to hug
her. And then my daughter lookedand saw that. And she for the

(42:46):
first time reached out and saidmom, and I got to take her from
my ex husband's arms. And shejust held on to me. And I inside
was so I like I want to cry. Nowjust talking about it was so
impactful. It was like themoment I got my daughter back, I

(43:07):
had lost her for probably abouta year, it was really, really
hard. And after that, thingsstarted to improve. And after
that, I realized how powerfulforgiveness is. And me just
getting over myself and doingthe right thing. I didn't need
to invite them to dinner. I justneeded to be cordial. And in
tune with myself and groundedand being okay with whatever

(43:31):
happened even looking stupid,even being sweaty and not having
my armor on, you know, justbeing from my heart and knowing
that I had to do this for myselffirst. And it totally shifted.
So then it was like a few moremonths. And every night I would
do meditation. And I would putpink light in their house just I

(43:52):
would send love to their house.
I'd imagine it because that wasmy house. So I could imagine
every room in that house. And Iput love in that house and I
surrounded my daughter and Isaid you know what, if this is
her new mom, so far, she's beenamazing to her. She's teaching
her things. She loves her, thankgoodness. And I just put love on
that. Six months later, they gotdivorced. I saw and I didn't

(44:14):
even want that. I didn't evenwant the divorce because I
wanted my daughter to havestability. I was like whatever
it takes, you know, I just Ilearned to love somebody more
than myself. I learned to lovemyself enough to be okay with
it. I mean, there was a lot morework, but that was literally

(44:37):
within 48 hours. So forgivenessdoesn't have to take a long time
to see results. But I think forsome of the bigger things it
took longer I don't know it's Idon't even know I don't think
it's linear. I don't think I cansit here and say A plus B equals
C. I think it's different foreverybody but I do know that the
energy of forgiveness ispowerful. while inhaling, and

(44:59):
will change your life, I'm justputting it out there. Boom.
Done. Drop the mic.

Charity Rodriguez (45:07):
Yeah. Okay, well then there you go. Thank
you very much everyone forlistening today. Wonderful.

Jennifer Wong (45:16):
No, we're not done. We're

Charity Rodriguez (45:18):
good jazz boom, right there. Wow,
Jennifer, I swear you, like blewme away every time I talk to
you. Oh, likeI have not lived. I have not
lived life. Like you have lived,you have fully lived embraced,

(45:38):
like, you've gone through themarine training of a life of
bootcamp.
You know, you've gone throughthe muck, you've had the barbed
wire, like pulling and tuggingand ripping, you've had to repel
up the vertical wall. I'vejust like, lady,

Unknown (46:04):
I don't know, maturity, you have to. We all have maybe
not like that.

Jennifer Wong (46:10):
But you've suffered, you've had pain and
you've worked through it, we allhave

Charity Rodriguez (46:15):
no but no, because the here's I'm the I'm
thinking through, I'm thinkingthrough all of these things that
you've gone through. And mythought is, my life has been a
series of you do things to avoidthings. Okay. So like, my mom,

(46:38):
was very much into someone, youknow, the energy of the people
coming into your house. Sosomeone comes into your house,
and the moment they walk out ofyour house, she was burning
lavender and all this stuff tolike, get that energy out of the
house. So I'm just like, veryaware of like, how does that

(46:59):
person make me feel, Oh, that'llmake me feel good cut that,
like, I don't need to continueany further. Anything with that
person, I don't engage. Youknow, like you're saying, like,
you kept on going in, I just cutpeople and they're just like,
No, I'm, you know, throwingwater out my front door so that
they're, I'm cleaning my house,I have to clean, you would

(47:23):
cleanse your house, you know,with all these nice fruity
smelling things and whiteflowers, and then you would
throw it out the front door sothat they're, like, call it
malice toward the evil one. Orso I have a lot of people and
things and situations andcircumstances. My mom's thing

(47:47):
was like, the door's alwaysopen, you're always welcome
here, I'll always feed you andwhatever. But then like, you
know, when you left the she feltlike, something's off that
person. You know, oh, let's goeverybody clean up and you're
like cleaning and then you'relike burning, and then you're,
like, open all the doors andget the wave. And
so I've just like,I don't, I don't know, a lot of

(48:07):
stories like that, like, my onemajor situation was, you know,
with a family member. And thatwas like the extent of it,
everyone else that I have comeinto contact with throughout my
life. I just have to just let itgo. Like I do the release thing.
I don't necessarily go back foryou know exoneration, because I

(48:32):
also don't like conflict. So I'mnot gonna go to someone and say,
You did this to me. And I wantyou to do, you know, I'm just
like, I might say a littlesomething. And then if I don't
see any kind of reaction orSpark, I just let it go. So I
and I think through a lot mysteps and my actions and what I

(48:56):
do so that I can see like, Did Ido anything? When I'm reliving
the situation? Did I doanything? Now I'm good. I didn't
do a thing. I don't know whatthe situation is. I gotta let it
go and just keep on going. So Idon't have a lot of interactions
with people. Really. I'm justlike, wow, I think back. No, I

(49:17):
mean, wow, did it. That way,

Jennifer Wong (49:29):
I only hope that the pain and the suffering, the
work I've done is helpful toothers. Like that is ultimately
I mean, that's why I share thisstuff. It's not for me, I've
been through it. I've done it,you know, but maybe if one
person just gleams hope or, youknow, hopefully, it's good for

(49:50):
the world in some way. You know,like, it's not just about me,
it's not just about myself.
Although I will say I'm I'mhappier now than I've ever been
in my My entire life, you know,and it's just my path. It's just
my path. And we all just haveour journeys. And sometimes I
think, you know, I love thatyou've been with your husband so

(50:10):
long and you are best friends,and you chat about things and
you get along, and I thinkthat's so wonderful. That's not
my path. I don't have that. Inmy life. I get this. So it's
just different, you know, it'sjust

Charity Rodriguez (50:26):
different is different, it is different. And
I'm trying to think, how would Ihave reacted?
How would I have reacted? I, Iknow I would not have reacted
the way you reacted. And thankgoodness, you had the I don't
know where without theconnection, you do a lot of self

(50:48):
help, and you have a greaterconnection with yourself. I
think I have a differentconnection with myself. But do
you have a more intent and adeeper self awareness that we
don't always have what a lot ofus need. And I don't know how to
get to that deeper selfawareness. I'm like, I need to

(51:10):
go a little deeper with myself.
I'm just like, I don't knowthat. I don't know if I'm
capable of that. I don't know. Imean, I want it, I want it. But
you were you mentioned that guy,Michael Beckwith, Michael
Beckwith, you mentioned and Ihad another friend that had
recommended him to me and I waslistening to his, you know, his
stuff. And a lot of thingsresonated. But I know I have a

(51:34):
wall. I have a, like a realthick wall. And, you know, maybe
there's a little screen windowleft at the front, where I kind
of filter, let some informationfilter through. But I don't I
don't embrace these things. Asmuch as I think I would want to

(51:58):
arrive I should or I could, Ijust I listen, I like to be
aware. Like, I'm familiar withthe secret. I can't remember
that too. And it all came out.
And I I read that book andeverything. But at the end of
it, I was likelike everything. I'm like that
with everything. And I don'tknow why I can't just go yes.

(52:19):
Okay.
This is like, I take a littlebit and it's a very small
percentage of like, okay, thatsounds good. All right. That's
something I can do. Okay, that'sfine. And then the rest of it.
It's left hanging, but I know togo a little deeper to go on a

(52:41):
different journey. Maybe I doneed to, in a wrap my arms, but
I don't. I am incapable of doingthat. Like, I'm just like, I but
I don't know why. And I try tonot be that way. But then I'm
like, No, I can't do it.

Jennifer Wong (53:02):
Well, timing is everything. And I think because
you said I want to then it willat some point reveal itself, if
it's meant to be in and I had ateacher that said sometimes
we're ready and we're notwilling, and sometimes we're
willing and we're not ready. Andwhen they finally come together.
It's like whoo, it's likefireworks. It's great.

Charity Rodriguez (53:22):
That's true.

Jennifer Wong (53:23):
But I'm going to ask, as this is our season one
closing episode. Yeah. Would yousay that by us being effing
honest, just with us togetherand doing this full season. I
hope that it has helped you insome way. Because I will say it

(53:44):
has helped me. I have gotten alot out of doing this

Charity Rodriguez (53:52):
it has helped me because it has opened my eyes
it has given me words forconversation. It has given me
words for feelings andexpressions and experiences that
I had swallowed, you know,perhaps and just like I didn't
know how to express that. Ididn't know how to say those
words, but you had words for it.
And I was like, oh, that's whatI was feeling. Yes. I went there

(54:16):
to you went a little deeper. Iwas like, and then I turned back
around. Iwas like, Okay, now I feel
better.

Jennifer Wong (54:31):
No, it has it has

Charity Rodriguez (54:33):
and that is to be able, to be honest, to be
honest with myself, to behonest, when I'm having
conversations with other people.
And I don't like to waste a lotof time now. Like I don't I
don't want to just have a littlechitchat conversation either.
I'm talking with you and I'mtalking with you with some depth
with honesty. You know, it's notnot that I'm Pouring out my

(54:59):
whole life story right there inthe moment. But I'm also not
trying to just be holding on topeople that aren't trying to
hold me back. You know, hold onto me, would that embraces not
mutual? And I'm recognizing thatand it's like, it's okay. That's

(55:23):
fine. Just let it go. And justmove on. Keep on trucking. I
like the being honest, and, andbeing open with myself and
others. And so, ya know, I'velearned a lot I learned, I've
learned a lot, Jennifer. Butwhat about yourself? What have

(55:44):
you learned anything? How hasthe experience been for you?

Jennifer Wong (55:49):
It's been incredibly impactful. And I have
learned a lot. I love hearing,the research that you do and the
topics that you've brought, I'velearned a lot, especially like
the child assessment, I learnedso much. And I've been more
willing to move forward in thatdirection really asking myself
what's holding me back. So therehas been a lot of growth there.

(56:13):
And just being vulnerable. I am.
I mean, next season, I hope andembrace that we are going to
have way more subscribers andlisteners. And the people that
we've had this season knowing mysecrets has really been like, I

(56:35):
have to keep like Who,

Unknown (56:41):
who, who is this good?
Am I doing this? Right? Is thisokay? Like,

Jennifer Wong (56:46):
holy hell who's gonna listen to this, and it's
made me continue to check in.
And like I had said earlier,this isn't about me. You know,
it is, but it isn't. I mean, Icould just stay at home with
this, I didn't need to put itout in the airwaves for anybody
to listen to. So I deeplybelieve that this is helping to

(57:06):
create community. And it'staking my

Unknown (57:13):
role,

Jennifer Wong (57:15):
to a new level in my communities. With my friends,
feeling more aligned with myauthenticity, when I go into
conversations, it's made me bemore present and slow. Because I
also know I don't need to shareeverything with everybody all
the time. Right? But what do Ifeel is being drawn for me to

(57:38):
say, at this moment, not just mymind, I've really come into my
heart over the season, reallylearning how to believe it
before I see it. That was mymeditation this morning. My mind
believes things once it sees it,but my heart believes it before
it's ever seen. And I want tolive there more. And I think

(58:01):
that's what this is, this hasbeen a big risk for us to take
to do this. On so many levels.
It has been so many we didn'tknow we were doing, though. And
we're still learning. Yeah,

Charity Rodriguez (58:16):
we are. We are but we've grown, I feel like
we've grown like from thebeginning, from where we started
to where we're ending now. It'slike, wow, Jennifer, like, take
a look, we did all that like wedid it. We opened ourselves, we
kept showing up. And we keptimproving, and we kept growing.

(58:40):
And the other thing that you'reasking about, and I thought was,
I'm more present, like Ilistened more like, usually like
loss of my own having a look alittle dialogue with myself,
half the time. But now becauseof this, I am listening more.
And I'm listening to what peopleare saying, I'm listening to you

(59:02):
and what you are telling me andI'm receiving versus listening
to you with the anticipation ofI gotta reply, I have to reply
to you. So and I'm not thinkingabout what I'm going to say. And
I was like, no, let me justlisten like what, you know, what
you got, let's hear it. So

Jennifer Wong (59:21):
that's beautiful.
Well, I appreciate you charity,because you have done a lot of
work to make this happen. Allthe sound all the workshops, so
I appreciate you. And this is sofun. And let's keep going.

Charity Rodriguez (59:36):
Now we are going to keep going and I
appreciate you for being willingto take a chance being willing
to be so vulnerable and sotransparent with I mean we're
kind of strangers like we kneweach other but like right know
how deep we were gonna go andI'm thankful and grateful that
you're the kind that just likethis is doing all right. But
yeah, I like that go goattitude. Because me I was like,

(01:00:01):
let me put the current in andthen I'll just do my thing and
that and I'm always seen thatwhat I'm done. That's right.
This is getting there. We'llfigure it out. Like, that's it
Jennifer. What I need to bebold, that's what I need to be
bold. I'm like, I'm gonna beJennifer right now. And I have

(01:00:24):
to say that to my husband, sohe's like, What are you doing?
Be genuine. Oh, okay. Okay. Sojust follow my lead. Because
yeah, I mean, me, like, notgonna do that. And he knows that
he was like, alright, let's justgo.

(01:00:45):
Whatever. But now, it's like,Hey, we're gonna do this is
really scary. But I think thisis we're gonna be Jennifer. Oh,
we're going to be we are goingto be, we are going to be okay.
Go. All right. Woman gender.
Firstly, it's a situation.
Whatever man is doing. So bad.
Got her.

(01:01:13):
Oh, my goodness. There you go.
Thank you. Thank you so much.

Jennifer Wong (01:01:18):
Oh, my gosh, that's hilarious.

Charity Rodriguez (01:01:21):
Lives in sight, like, those two are a
little nutty. Whatever. We'rehappy, but we liked it.
We liked it. We do. We areracing out here. So. Yeah. All
right. Well,thank everyone who has listened.
Thank you so much. We love andappreciate your coming back and
listening and creating communitywith us. And we have awesome,

(01:01:46):
wonderful things for the newseason plant. We're going to be
interviewing guests. We're goingto be on YouTube. Hopefully
we'll figure out the Instagramand other social media stuff.
And you'll see that too, butjust keep them coming. And we
want to hear from you likeideas, suggestions, anything
lose, you know, reach out. Sothank you. Thank you. Yes. And

(01:02:10):
thank you to that.
All right.
And here we are signing off for2022.

Jennifer Wong (01:02:20):
Yes. Cheers, everybody. Cheers. Be effing
honest.

Charity Rodriguez (01:02:29):
Yay. Thank you for listening to being
effing honest with your hosts,Jennifer Wong and charity
Rodriguez. Subscribe to our showwherever you listen to podcasts.
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