Gaslighting - What does that mean? Do you even know if it's happening to you? - Being F'ing Honest

Episode Transcript
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Jennifer and Charity (00:05):
Hello, and welcome to Our Podcast being
effing honest, I'm JenniferWong. And I'm Charity Rodrigues.
We invite you into ourconversations about everyday
issues experienced by everydaypeople. We share our stories
with honesty and humor, hopingto bring people together in
community by showing howvulnerability can deepen bonds

(00:25):
when done with kindness and nonjudgment. We know it's tough, so
we'll go ahead and go first

Charity Rodriguez (00:47):
hello, hello, Jennifer.

Jennifer Wong (00:50):
Hello, charity, and welcome to everybody that's
listening. Thank you forlistening and subscribing and
giving your feedback it isgiving us the fuel to keep going
and keep being effing honest. Sothank you, everybody.

I feel like you need a cowbell. And so I
know Maddie because we hit Ithink we hit like 300 downloads
or 300 like to celebrate thatwith you. So I'd really like
we're getting there people weregetting there. It's exciting.

(01:24):
Okay, but now, let us begin. Inthis episode, we're going to
share our respective experienceswith what today is called
gaslighting. On a 10 years ago,you would have asked me about
gaslighting. I don't know whatyou're talking about, but now

(01:44):
it's pretty prevalent. There's aname to it. There's 1000s and
millions of experiences ofpeople that have dealt with
this. But let me I want todefine it first. Okay, so the
Merriam Webster Dictionarydefines gaslighting as
psychological manipulation of aperson, usually over an extended

(02:05):
period of time, that causes thevictim to question the validity
of their own thoughts,perception of reality, or
memories, and typically leads toconfusion, loss of competence
and self esteem, and certaintyof one's emotional or mental
stability, and a dependency onthe perpetuator. That is pretty

(02:34):
intense.

Events, and it's so it's like the silent little
killer to because you don'treally know what's happening
until it's almost too late.
Yeah, for sure, for sure.

So, Jennifer, you are gonna get us, you know,
start off because you wrote ablog about a blog post about it.
And well, first of all, I justwant to know, like, what
prompted you to write this like,Well, what was going on? What
happened?

Oh, my gosh, I really don't know. So, this week
was a crazy week, my daughtermoved out of the house, and she
went to college. And it's a goodthing. And I'm so excited for
her. But I was really sad too,because she's not only my
daughter, but we were reallyclose. And we hang out and we do
stuff together. So I was sad.
And then I found out one of myfriends is transitioning right

(03:25):
now. And so I was filled with alot of grief. And usually when I
get into grief, I start lookingat things and I start
meditating. And I did and I gotinto this meditation. And then
at 1130, at night, I was lookingat images on probably, I don't
know, some social media site,and I saw that gaslighting

(03:46):
picture. And all of a sudden, itjust prompted me to write that
post. So I posted briefly abouthow it was covert and insidious.
But what I realized and whatcame out of that was three years
after being out of thatrelationship, how much my life
has expanded and how good I feelin my body again. I was kind of

(04:11):
tripping out really because Ithought, wow, I really feel good
about myself and I can't believehow I did not feel good about
myself for almost a decade.
Crazy.

Tell us what happened. Mike, can you tell us
the story can you share?

So I do have a story and it's gonna lean into
that and and there's a secondpart so I wrote that post at
like 1130 at night. Okay, sendit off. Okay, went to bed. Woke
up the next morning and this wasmy dream. I was so disturbed
that I could hardly breathe. Ithought I don't know. I don't

(04:54):
get it. So, in my dream I was ata a shooting range and I was
learning how to shoot a rifle.
And the man that was teaching mewas a beautiful man of color.
And he was big. And I had justbeen watching the legacy of the
Lakers on Hulu. And so the man,his body structure reminded me

(05:18):
of Magic Johnson now isbasically what it looked like,
but it wasn't. So he hands methis rifle. And then he goes and
sits at a desk like a desk inschool, about 15 feet in front
of me, with his back to me, andthen to the left of him is a 12
by 12, Bullseye. Okay, and I'mlooking going, I'm going to

(05:38):
shoot this guy, I'm not evenvery good, is he going to teach
me what's going on. And I pickup the rifle and the triggers,
like super touchy, and it juststarts going off, and then it's
a semi automatic. So three shotsgo to the left of the bullseye.
And I'm thinking, Oh, thank God,I didn't shoot him. But it just
keeps shooting. And I shoot himin the back five times, three in

(06:00):
the back to in the head in theback of the head, and I am
freaking out. I, the whole timeI'm just staring at my jaw is
open. I am so shocked. I don'tknow what to do. I can't believe
I just shot a man like all thesefeelings are going through me.
And then I look at the bulletholes. And I could see all the

(06:20):
way through to the white wall infront. And I know that one went
through his heart, and I'm justthinking, I just killed a man, I
just killed a man. So I run upto the desk. And as I'm running
thoughts are going through myhead and I have this vision of
me signing an affidavit thatsign signing my name saying this
was all my fault. Then I get tohim and I'm thinking why is no

(06:43):
one calling 911. And when I getto him, he turns to me, and he's
a different man now, and he'sgot kind of an afro and he's
really skinny. And he's got hisdukes up and he's ready to punch
me in the face. And I am goingI'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. Go
ahead hit me I deserve it. Andthen I woke up. I was so freaked

(07:06):
out that I shot a person. Icould not get over it. So I
journaled about it. Then Italked to a couple friends about
it and maybe three hours laterit finally hit me. That was
narcissism that was full. Gasolgaslighting, like, who gives you
a gun when you don't know how touse it and then sits right in

(07:29):
front of you and says, okay,don't shoot me. It was like a
full setup, right? I there wasno way I wasn't going to shoot
him. Yeah, no way. And then heand then like, I'm signing an
affidavit saying yes, it's allmy fault. That's one of the
things in in gaslighting, theywant to make sure that you
believe it's all your fault. Andthen I was willing to take a
punch because I deserved it. Itwas complete ly reminiscent of

(07:52):
what I went through in thatgaslighting relationship. It was
crazy. It was amazing. And thenI thought about it like all
week, and a few days later, Ithought, but if I was empowered,
I would have never shot the gun.

(08:16):
I would have said, There's noway I'm shooting a gun with you
sitting there, okay? There's noway I would have entered into
that whole quagmire of guilt andblame and shame and just utter
death, you know. And so Ithought great, I've was given
this image so that I don'trepeat it. You know, and maybe a

(08:42):
little bit was, you know,gassing off gaslighting getting
rid of some of that that's stillin me. And so this week, I
really started studying moreabout gaslighting itself. And I
was listening to a podcast andread a blog by Tanya Melanie
Evans. And she goes all the wayback to like 2012. She's been
doing this forever. And ithelped me to really understand a

(09:06):
lot more of why I let it happen.
Because I think I'm a reallystrong person. I have done so
much in my world in my life.
I've done so many things that Ibelieve I am a strong person.
And it finally hit me I wasmeditating the other day and it
hit me. I had this image of Ihave two spheres around my body

(09:28):
one is about six inches awayfrom my heart and then
everything outside of that, andI'm really strong six inches out
of my heart and outward, reallystrong. Okay, but the six inches
away from my heart to my heart.
Very weak. I was very weakbecause that to me that six

(09:49):
inches between my heart out ismy self, my self love my self
worth myself The steam. Youknow, I, I think I, in the past
before I met that person, I wasworking on everything on the
outside of me. I was working onhow to be courageous outside of

(10:11):
me based on what other peoplethought was courageous and
strong. It wasn't that I workedon, you know, do I love myself?
Do I trust myself? Do I feelworthy of receiving and giving
love? Do I feel worthy ofsetting boundaries? Do I feel
worthy of standing up and sayingno, this is not okay. Now,

(10:33):
because I wanted, because Ilacked my own self love. I was
looking for it from outside ofme, right? If I portray this
image of strength and goodness,people will love me and then
I'll be fulfilled. Didn't eventhink I need to love myself.

You want that validation of others? Yeah,

subconsciously.
Just that's the way I wasraised. That's the way it went.
That's my conditioning. didn'teven see it.

Even though,

when I met him, I had been doing all this personal
work for like, who actually whenI met him, I'd only been on my
personal journey about threeyears. Okay, so not very long.
And I don't even think I hadgotten to the really loving
myself part. So I was stillopen. Yeah. But that was my huge

(11:25):
awakening this week aboutnarcissism, gaslighting, and it
isn't about giving them power,because the more I learned about
gaslighting this week,narcissists have created a false
self, because they haveabsolutely no self love, no self
worth, they feel ineffectual.
They feel they cannot take careof themselves. And so they

(11:48):
create this false self that'stotally ego based. And the only
way they can feel alive is whenthey take the food from somebody
else. So when they create chaos,and somebody else looks like
they're in pain, that's the onlytime they feel validated and
alive. I was like, Oh, my God.
No wonder, no wonder,

I was reading up on that. And one of the
things that it had describedabout the gas lighters, and
they're also considerednarcissists, right. Like, that
was one of the definition, gaslighters are narcissists. And
one of the things that came thatcame up to describe them is that
they lack empathy, and they areunwilling to identify with the

(12:38):
needs of others. It just likewhen you were saying, the you
know that they get that higherwhen they cause trauma and
drama, and it's just like, oh,yeah, I met a person like that,
or I had a person like thatinvolved. But you don't like
that just seems like such aridiculous thing. Like, who

(13:01):
feeds off of other people'strauma? Like who gets excited?
You know, like, that's justlike, No, that's not what's
going on here. Surely it has tobe something else. Like, surely,
it has to be something that I'mdoing, because that's just the
most ridiculous thing. That's mythinking. But that's not and the
other thing that was coming upwas, this is this is under

(13:24):
mental illness. And narcissistsis under mental illness. So it's
not just a little game thatpeople do to entertain
themselves, like, there's amental illness taking place with
that individual, whether theyacknowledge it or not, whether
they, you know, the see or not,it is under that kick, because

(13:46):
those behaviors are not normal.
Right? It may be for them, butit's their world, but it's not
normal.

And I agree, I think it is mental illness and i
i actually have more compassionfor it. Understanding it that
way, and thinking, especiallyknowing the relationship I was
in in the person. I saw whathappened to him growing up. I

(14:17):
saw it, it was just perpetuated,you know, it was clear, but I
didn't see any of that till Ifinally woke up. I was in it for
a long, long time. My world gotso so small. I didn't. I didn't
have friends that I would go dothings with. I didn't. I didn't

(14:38):
feel like I had deepconnections. I had friends that
I would just bitch about him.
And then I got sick of hearingmyself. And I quit talking about
it. Because I wasn't doinganything about it. I didn't know
what to do and I didn'tunderstand it. Instead, my world
just got really small because itwas taking up 90% of my Energy,
you know, my, what I wasthinking how I was feeling. And

(15:01):
I didn't want to talk about itanymore. So what else was there?
What else was left? You know,just barely taking care of the
kids. Always trying to avoidchaos. That was my main goal in
life every day was how can Imanipulate my day so that I
don't have to listen to thebarrage of guilt and anger and

(15:22):
frustration? It was every day,it was every day, if we went two
days without it, I'd be like,Oh, how do we get a couple
breaths, and then boom, we wereright back in it. It was insane.

This start like from the onStart. Like, was
it from the beginning of noship? Like it was a slow,
gradual.

It started when my daughter was born. Like,
literally, the week she wasborn, I saw this huge shift, I
was bedridden after my baby wasborn. And I couldn't do much
because I had really high bloodpressure. So it was just me and
the screaming baby in the bed.
And he came in one day to, Ithink, empty the trash cans. And

(16:12):
I looked at him and I justpanicked. Like, I felt this
total. And I just looked at himand I said, What is going on?
He's all What are you talkingabout? And I said, Who are you
right now? Like, where did yougo what happened? And he was,
and then it started, you'redramatic. You're overdramatic,

(16:33):
you're always looking for thingsthat are wrong. You don't ever
look at the good. And he just, Iremember him walking all the way
around the bedroom, telling meall the things I was doing
wrong. And I felt my stomachjust fall to the floor. i It was
terrifying. And I couldn'tfigure out what had happened.
And I think it was overwhelmingfor him to have a child. He had

(16:55):
told me I never want to havechildren. And then we had a
child. And it was actually itwas kind of a we call it a
blessing in disguise. I wasn'tWe weren't planning on it. But
then he really, really, reallywanted me to have it. And then I
got on board. So it was a kindof a really odd mixture of

(17:18):
things for me to say, what wasreal and what wasn't real. And
it just took me by surprise. Ibut I knew the moment it
started.

But he said he did not want to have
children. Then you surprise gotpregnant. And then there's a
shift of Yeah, let's do this. Idon't really want to like what
was? Did they explain why theynow we're like, let's have a
baby. If all those time No.

Oh, because it was the right thing to do.
Because it was the right thingto do. Then the religious card
was pulled.

Oh, okay.
Okay. But up into that point.
Why did they not want to havetelogen? Was there any reasoning
like was it going to hamper thewild, fun, exciting lifestyle?
Was it they didn't feel parentalwas that they couldn't, you
know, the idea of having ascreaming baby just wasn't in

(18:22):
the car with it changing? Youknow,

I asked and like I asked a lot of questions in
that relationship. The responsewas, I don't know. Because that
person really didn't know. Andnow that I look back, I don't
think he could look at it. If hewas to look at his own lack of
self empowerment, it woulddestroy him. It would have
destroyed him. If he looked athis own ineffectual ality you

(18:47):
know, his inability to handlethings. It would destroy him to
this day, he overcompensates toprove that he can handle things,
which is the behavior, I don'twant to sound like a victim at
all, because what I have learnedfrom this is he is a master
teacher for me, because heshowed me where I need to grow

(19:11):
in my own person in my ownbeing. Because if I was not
subject to that amount ofdiscomfort, I don't think I
would have really looked at myown self worth. He gave me an
opportunity to look at where Ireally need to grow. Because it

(19:33):
would never happen if I trulyloved myself felt confident at
self esteem. Had self love youknow, all those things. It
wouldn't it would have neverlike it will never happen now.

What did you want from this relationship with
this individual? Like what wereyou hoping was going to happen?
Because you had insight? Right?
You had insight about yourselfand but this person was not. Do
you think You were thinking,we're on the same plane and then
you didn't notice until laterthat Nope, he's not.

I felt trapped.
So when we when I got pregnant,it was makeup sex. We were I was
always already planning to endthe relationship. And we had a
bunch of breakups get backtogethers for few months,
leading to me getting pregnant.

(20:27):
So then once I got pregnant, Ifelt it was the right thing for
me to do to make it work. Sowhat I wanted out of it was I
really wanted us to get long.
Okay, I really did. We did somuch work. We did so much
couples therapy, couplesretreats, 12 Step work, we did
it all. But the problem was wenever talked about gaslighting.

(20:47):
So we never got to the root ofit. I think it was actually when
I learned about gaslighting fromanother good friend of mine. And
I didn't even go into it as muchas I took this last week. I just
saw a few blogs from MelanieTania Evans. And I went, Oh my
God. That's what's going onhere. Oh, my God. And that was

(21:09):
all I needed. And I think withinsix months, I ended the
relationship. That was it. Itwas over. But I just didn't even
know because I was like, There'sno way that's happening me. I'm
way too strong to let thathappen.

Right. Right.
Right. But okay, so here's thething, because with gaslighting,
the narcissist, the abuser, theperpetuator says and does things
that people are saying to you.
Why are you so defensive? Orsaying like, you're over at

(21:45):
overreacting, like it's not abig deal? And so you go, Oh,
yeah, okay, well, yeah, maybe,maybe, am I RBF? Yeah, sure,
maybe. And then you take that,like, they're throwing it back
on you. And you walk off withthat wondering like, what can I
do? What should I do, you know?
Or they'll say things and I sawthis, I have that image that you

(22:05):
post and I was just like, oh mygosh, yes. Why are you upset? I
was only kidding. Or, Oh, you'rejust imagining things. Or, and
this is the kicker, the one thatI'm just like, ah, and I hate it
when people say this is You'reso sensitive.

Yes. Yep.

So you were being told things that weren't?
Yeah, it's hard to see throughthat. It's hard to go we you
start like you said,

well, and I love that you said that? Because one
of them is there you go again.
Yes. That was a big one. Andhe's to say, just in Jennifer
fashion. This is so Jenniferfashion. Oh, yeah. Oh my gosh.
Like I had my own way. That wasjust awful, apparently. Yeah.
And, and because I was trying sohard to do whatever it would

(23:04):
take to keep it together for mygirls. I just kept bending, but
what I was doing was justburying myself further and
further. I just kept taking awaymy power more and more hoping
that at some level, we would getalong. Yeah, all I wanted was
for a skin long. I thought,because I did love him. I mean,
I did love him. And I think tothis day, I can say I still do.

(23:28):
I do love him. He's the fatherof my child. And there was a
point in time when I really did.
I mean, we didn't come togetherout of this. It didn't start
like this. So I, I do I do havea place in my heart for him. In
fact, he had a surfing accidenta few months ago, and I was
really concerned for him. And Ifelt sad. I really did. So I

(23:50):
know that I do love him. I'm notin love with him. But I was
hoping that it would come backat some point. I really was. And
you know, here's another thing.
So I posted that on ourInstagram page. Yeah. And then I
posted it also on my personalFacebook page. And I had a

(24:11):
friend that I haven't talked tosince high school, reach out and
tell me on instant message, howhe appreciated my post. And it
was odd because he had justfound out that a friend of his
had taken her life after thesame like it sounded like the

(24:38):
same situation she was in iswhat he was saying he doesn't
know for sure. But he said herFacebook posts were very aligned
with what I had written. Andthen I think her last post that
he sent me a picture of wassomething like I used to be a
human now I'm just a thing. AndI just cried I live literally

(24:58):
cried because I know what it'slike to be so low. There were so
many times what I thought Ican't get out of this. I can't
it's, it's either me and I'msuch a piece of lint that I
don't even think my kids wouldmind. If I died, he would just
take over and everything wouldbe fine. I had that thought
grows, it's like, yeah, to evensay that right now is like

(25:20):
disgusting to me. But I believedit. I believed it, there was a
period of time where I believethat, like, if I just died,
although I would never, I don'thave that I was thinking I would
just move to Europe, and nevercome back. That was more like my
thoughts, because I've just, I'mtoo cowardly to ever kill
myself. But I really thought ifI wasn't in their life, they

(25:43):
don't need me. That's how low Iwas. That was my rock bottom.

Did your did your children see this? Did they
see the effect? Or have youever? That one is older? So
maybe you were able to talk morewith her? But what do you think
the interaction between the twoof you how was that affecting
your children?

It was completely affecting them. And my little
one is knows no other way. Andmy older one, we were all kind
of in this energy of repression.
You know, we were being tampeddown. Don't talk too loud, don't
get out of line. Because as soonas you did, it was absolute

(26:36):
chaos. And you were told what atotal piece of shit you were.
And i My heart hurts for myolder daughter, because I saw
him do things to her that, youknow, I would fight back and
then it would be like weeks ofhorror, but I couldn't let it
go. And for example, one timeshe had a sinus infection. Okay.

(26:57):
I am and we're very natural. Andit was so bad that I took her to
the doctor, she got antibiotics,and she was on antibiotics. And
she came home from the doctor'sappointments so tired. She just
sat on the couch in the livingroom. He was at the table in the
dining room. And she was justlaying there and we had just
walked in and he goes, Really,you're gonna sit on that couch

(27:20):
right now and get everybodysick. And she just looked at him
and she went and I was like,Really, that's totally uncalled
for. And I just walked herupstairs, you know, it was like,
just get out of his way, becausehe's just gonna go off. It was
that kind of pressure all thetime. It was nuts. And I think
the final one was, my olderdaughter had a job. And then she

(27:42):
got off work, I think 1030 homeby 11. And I was always up late
working. And so she came in andwe were talking about her day
having a nice time. And he wasalready in bed. She got in the
shower, because she got offwork, was taking a shower, and
he gets up and starts banging onthe door saying you need to get

(28:02):
out of the shower. It's too lateto take a shower. And I was I
was aghast. I was beside myself.
And I just said, What are youdoing? Go to bed. She just got
off work. She can take a shower.
She's not hurting anybody? Well,it's loud. And it's keeping me
up well, too bad. And then hewent on about how I'm a horrible
mother. And I always take herside. And I'm a terrible mother

(28:24):
for showing her that we're not aunited front. And I said I can't
be united with irrationalbehavior. I can't. And he just
kept going and going and going.
And then I said, we're done. Andthen my older daughter actually
finally had it. And she had ashe never has yelled at anybody

(28:45):
or cursed at anybody in herentire life. Yeah. She fully
went off on him. And I wasn'taround. I didn't see it. But she
told me about it. And it waslike literally the week before I
told him I wanted to divorce. Soare my kids affected? 100% which
is that's a hard one. My littleone is very much affected. And

(29:11):
so that was another podcastepisode that I listened to about
how to you know what to do withyour children? Yeah, who have a
parent that is a gaslighter. Andyou don't even get to see them,
you know, and there, she toldsome stories where mine is
nowhere near the awfulness thatcould occur. And but her

(29:34):
solution was really to get inthat space of my own heart and
to shift how I feel and that'sthe only way it will shift. She
said there is nothing you can door say to change a gaslight
nothing other than having yourown self worth your own self
love. And it's more than evenjust setting boundaries like

(29:55):
there's this energy you have tohave with it. So it was it was
Just a really big, enlighteningthing. And she gave examples of
her clients that were interrible, dire hopeless
situations that when theyshifted their own energy, it it
changed, the relationshipchanged.

But how did you get into that space? How did
you carve out, you know what theshield, whatever you need it to
go enough is enough or I'm outof here or whatever.

I think it was my friends. It was definitely my
community, I had a fellowshipand the 12 step program, I was
an Al Anon at the time. And Ihad a great group of women
there. And an Al Anon is where Ilearned boundaries, like big
time, huge. And I also learnedabout a power greater than
myself. So you know, it's notreligious, but just the idea

(30:54):
that there's something greaterthat loves us and holds us and
has this divine perfection aboutit. So I had really use that.
And then I had a couplegirlfriends that I loved them so
much, they really helped me andit was through them, allowing me
to keep talking and to boost meup and making the decision. And
I needed someone to tell me thatI was not a bad person for

(31:16):
making this decision. I neededit because I didn't have it
enough inside myself. So I hadenough close people to really
help me through and in allhonesty, when it comes down to
it, I just think that that wasmy path. I don't think that
there was anything that Ipersonally did on my own. To do
that I needed my community and Ineeded spirit. And I think that

(31:39):
was just it, you know, like theysay, by the grace of God, that
happened for me. Why didn't ithappen for this woman that just
took her life? I don't know,

you know, right. Yeah.

So I just feel really fortunate. And that's why
I'm sharing this because I wantto hopefully, by sharing my
story, somebody hears it getssomething out of it that might
help them. I don't know. Butthat's why I share the story.
Not to bad mouth, anybody but

no, no, no, we're just trying to, you know,
this is your story. And we'retrying to shine a light on these
are real experiences, these arereal things that are happening,
when everybody goes behind theirdoor of their apartment, their
house, whatever. This is what'sgoing on sometimes, you know,
it's not just everybody, Jake,cooking dinner and game night.

(32:32):
And, you know, everyone's outtogether working on a project.
It's these are the daily liferealities that we're having to
deal with. And then you have todeal with life outside of that.
And so we need to talk about it,we need to just bring light
about it. Because maybe you'llrecognize yourself in this

(32:54):
story, maybe you'll not knowyou're not have a name for what
you're going through. But youknow that what you're going
through? That's not right. Itshouldn't be happening that way.
People that you love, trust,have competence and should not
be treating you in that manner.
And it may not be physicalabuse, but that is mental,

(33:14):
emotional, psychological, youknow, however, that is still
abuse, that is trauma that iscreating drama. So yeah, that's
just okay, what now you've beensending me a bunch of resources,
though. So you have used thisresources after the fact or you

(33:38):
use the resources during Therewas one lady that you mentioned
that you looked at, and youidentified with her stories,

right, Melanie?
Tania Evans, yeah. Okay, she wasbrought to me by a friend. And
that gave me the awareness. AndI got out. And then when this
all came up again, this week, Ireally started listening to her
blog. And it's been helpfulbecause I'm still working on
this journey with my youngerdaughter who's 11 on what I can
do, you know, and in this fightin this, you know, I'm just

(34:11):
like, I got to stand up, I gotto stand up, because as a person
that's just getting my selfconfidence and self esteem. I
feel that I need to stand upnow. But I still believe there's
going to be a grounded way to doit. But yeah, she's a great
resource. She's a really goodresource.

Okay. Okay.
And whatever resource works for

you. No, yeah, it's got to resonate,

like Yeah, exactly. Has to resonate and
definitely need to keepsearching and because it's a
pretty intense situation to haveto do with is very intense. And
how do you feel now?

I feel good. I mean, I feel fabulous. I was You
know, my friendships have gottenso much better. I have new
friends. It's amazing. It'slike, I moved to this new area,
and I love my neighbors, we havegame night that would have never
ever happened before. Not on myown accord. I couldn't, I didn't

(35:17):
feel I was I don't know what itis, I can't even tell you. It's
so subconscious. But now I goout and I meet my neighbors and
we talk I invite Him in, I'm notashamed, you know, the house
feels good. I have a place thatI can rest I don't, I'm not in
constant stress it, my body hasgotten healthier to my energy, I

(35:40):
am amazed at how much energy Ihave. If I only sleep six or
five hours, I still get throughthe day. Whereas before, no way
I was dragging, dragging,dragging, it is amazing how much
energy I have gotten back. LikeI even got some of my own energy
back because they take it, it'stheir food, you know, other
people's energy is their food.
And so I just had none. It waslike, I would wake up, deplete

(36:04):
it. And now I wake up, well, Idon't, I just was noticing that
this week, like I wake up, Ilike ready to go, I don't need
coffee, I don't need nothing.
Like I can just go it's such acrazy difference.

It's energy wellness Spirit coming
internally, you don't need anexternal device, during whatever
to keep you going. It's allgenerated from your spirit, if
you will.

And I actually during like, in this last month,
it's been crazy. I see anintuitive reader once in a while
and she's amazing. I love her somuch and what

an intuitive reader. It is.

So she uses her intuition to kind of look at my
energy and give me anotherperspective. So that's why I go
to an intuitive reader. They'vealso been known as psychics, but
she's not a psychic. Okay. Andshe just helps expand my
perspective on things that I'mworking through. And you know,

(37:13):
it's always take what you like,leave the rest. And some of it
doesn't resonate. And some of itdoes. Okay. And one of the
things that she brought up was,you are, you know, she read my
energy, and it was, you aredoing really, really good right
now you have cleaned up a lot,you've healed a lot, which was
validation, because that's whatI had felt. I had actually gone

(37:34):
to ask her for clarity aroundthis podcast. And my writing was
really why went which wasawesome, because instead of
going about a man, or my kidssomething outside of me, it was
stuff I love. So that was a bigwhoo in in itself. Not that I
rely on these readers very much.
I only maybe do it like twice ayear, three times a year. Like I

(37:54):
don't go all the time. Butanyway. Okay. Okay. What she
said was, you are in such a goodplace. And there's one little
piece that when this getsbetter, I guarantee you, your
life is going to change so much.
It is going to be so vibrant andamazing and fulfilling. like
nothing you've ever knownbefore. And I said what is that

(38:16):
she said the self love piece.
It's better, it's way betterthan it's ever been. But you
still can grow there and I go, Iprobably will the rest of my
life. I'm in agreement with heron that. I have gotten better,
too. I'm in agreement with that.
So she gave me this self lovemantra and this little thing to
do. And she said I am so surethat if you do this for 30 days,

(38:39):
and you do it, that I'll giveyou a complimentary reading. I
was like ooh, that's she'spretty sure and and so I have
I'm I have two more days andit'll be 30 days. Okay. So how'd
I do? I feel amazing.

Feel it. You feel the my feeling

I feel so much.
Yeah, you have to feel it youdon't just say it you have to
look in the mirror and you haveto really feel it I even on my
my altar behind me I putpictures of my little one like
when I was seven so that I canlook at her and I want to love
on her like I would my ownchildren. And that has been a
huge piece to build that selflove. I've been doing inner

(39:21):
child work forever. But youknow, it takes time. You know,
time builds. There's no one anddone. There's no one and done. I
was telling my friend the onlythe other day there's only two
one and done things. One isdrugs. You take a drug. Yeah,
you get your response, but it'stemporary. The other one is
trauma, like childhood traumahappen. All it needs. All you
need is to have it once it's inyour subconscious. You're done.

(39:43):
You come around and figure itout. But otherwise it's a
practice you know, it's apractice.

Yeah, but we have all experienced so much
trauma and things that we didnot you know as a society He
right that we did not realizewas trauma, it was things that
we just thought was normal.
Like, that's just the way you dothings. That's how how it is.
But now in hindsight, right, thedoctors and psychologists or
whatever therapists are like,You know what? Actually, yeah,

(40:14):
no, you shouldn't have beentreating your children that way.
Or you shouldn't have beentalking to your partner that
way, or you shouldn't have been,you know, you it was not okay
for your parents to tell you todo X, Y, and Z. Like, that's not
okay. So

that hurt people hurt people.

Yes, hurt people do hurt people. But okay,
you had said earlier that youhave compassion for this person
that you were involved with. AndI feel like I'm a compassionate
person for everybody out therein the world. But when I was

(41:00):
like, thinking about my ownstory, I was kind of like, I'm
not at compassion yet. Like, I'mnot trying to, I don't wish ill
on this individual in any way,shape, or form. But because I
know that they will not change,because I know that this is just

(41:21):
them. i It's still even though Iknow and I recognize and I
accept that it is a mentalillness. And this is what that
person is dealing with. It stillmakes me angry. Telling you
like, I still get angry at thethere will be no redemption,

(41:42):
there will be no validation forsaying something wasn't right.
It was just I had to let it go.
I had to let it go. I had towalk away. And that's just what
it is.

Was it easy to walk away? Like how was it for
you to finally get to the pointwhere you needed to walk away?

knew it was I mean, when it finally happened?
Yeah, it was just like, peaceout. I don't care. You know, I
felt like Superwoman, you know,you could do whatever because
bring it and I was like, at thatpoint of, I don't care. But it

(42:25):
took a long time to get to that.
It was a long arduous journey.
It was a roller coaster ofright. Because I, I just like in
hindsight felt like such anidiot, because I would tell the
people like this is not right.
Hello, does anyone not see this?

(42:46):
And literally, everyone wasturning there, I felt that
everyone was turning their backon me. I felt that everyone was
walking away from me. I feltthat everyone was saying, you're
just overreacting, you'refeeling so defensive. You're
imagining things, it wasn't thatbig of a deal. But with those
people with my friends, family,whatever, it didn't hurt, like,

(43:09):
it wasn't a lasting thing. I didgo like, okay, maybe I am. But
with the individual with theperpetuator with the abuser, and
they were an abuser. It was notit hurt it stung. It was ripping
me apart. It was like they weretaking nails and just hammering

(43:33):
it in because I was like, Thatis not right. And I, I wanted
validation. I wanted to changethem. Because I felt like if I
could just change them, thiswould all stop. I can I can make
this stop. I could say this, Icould do this. I could, I could

(43:57):
call them out on what they weredoing and what they were saying
and how they were behaving.
Whereas everyone else is justlike walking away. You're like,
oh, whatever, that was a crazything. Go over here in this
corner. But for whatever reason,any at me couldn't let it go.
Like I could I was constantlyengaging. Okay, I take that

(44:18):
back. It wasn't for whateverreason. There was, this is a
family situation. And becausefamily was involved, it's not
that easy to go, you know, I'mout of here, because I still
want to be involved with thefamily. I still want to come to
Christmas dinner and, you know,Easter and let's go shop and
whatever. Like just I want it tobe part of my family's

(44:41):
collective. And and I just, Icouldn't like I would say, you
know, I had to prep myself everytime I had to deal with this
individual. And I did I had tolike shut down and not I was
trying not to I feed them not togive them ammunition to attack
me to same thing, but it didn'tmatter. Like, it didn't matter.

(45:06):
And I didn't, I did not likemyself, I didn't like how I felt
I didn't like anything. And Iwas, like you said, just kind of
going inside, you're justshrinking, like shrinking like a
little flower just shrinking.
But I would have these littlebursts of even when I would
think, you know, I'm so low, Ican't get any lower. I just

(45:30):
couldn't let it go. I just wouldhave to say something. I just,
even though I knew how upset howaggravating how what the
reaction was going to be. But Iwas hopeful. I was like, Well,
no, surely this time, if I saythis, if I do this, if I behave

(45:51):
this way. It'll banish thatbecause I just didn't want to
believe that this was them. Thiswas, this was them. And we had a
conversation a couple weeks ago,a couple days ago, I don't know.

(46:12):
And we were talking about youraunt. And she was talking about
she was I was talking to her andand she was talking about seeing
the good in people. And alwayshaving that faith and that hope
and seeing to seeing the goodand not giving up. And I knew I
was just kind of like cryinginside because I'm like, I can

(46:32):
see the good in everybody else.
But I can't see the good andthis person. Like he just kept
making me. I lived it like I'msorry. And I felt depressed. And
I was just like, No. Becausethat's what I lived with. That's
what I kept telling myself likethink surely the are a good
person they are. And the thingis, they weren't good people.

(46:54):
Well, everybody, do anybody elsethat they would come in contact
with like, that does. Awesome.
And I was like, What am I seeinghere? Like? I don't know, I have
had no experience here were oneor two, but not the 20 episodes

(47:19):
of awesome, wonderful, greatthat you had. That's you don't
like it or not. So it becamelike, it's just me, it's just
me. Why are you doing this too,because they were doing it to
everybody else. Right, buteveryone else could just step

(47:40):
away. And me and my dingdongreality was like, well, it
wasn't even dinner. I was I wasthere. I was caring for my
parents. I couldn't just golike, you know, I'm out of here.
I was like, No, I took on thatrole. And so I had to deal with
everything else that came alongwith it. So it wasn't just an

(48:02):
easy thing. And, and it wasfamily. And that's a whole
different thing. Like whenyou're dealing with family.
Sometimes it's not just thateasy to go. I'm out of here.
Because there are you know,everyone else is telling, you
know, just it's not that bad.
Like keep the hot, you know, goback in there. It's it's not

(48:25):
that bad. Because, you know, ifyou step away, you can't cook to
Christmas dinner. Like is thatare you willing to give that up?
Like are you really like tryingto say you don't want to come to
our gatherings and you don'twant to be at the house because
you know that person is going tobe there but you're not going to
be there. And we love having youlike you're so fun. Come on,

(48:47):
like just ignore that. Don'tworry about it. I'll just like
fine, how to do it again,knockout show up. But no, but I
just also wanted to likesomebody. Somebody acknowledged
that what I am saying and whatI'm seeing and whatever

(49:08):
experiencing is not normal, likethis. Not a normal thing. And no
one would talk about that. Noone No one.

Did you feel isolated?

I

was in that situation.

Isolated?
Yes. Yeah. Cuz I couldn't sayhere's the wound. See, I'm
bleeding. And I have a video ofthem stabbing me and then
pouring salt and then kicking medown like it was it was like,
oh, yeah, they did that. Andthen again, oh, but that wasn't

(49:51):
you know, just let it go. Justlet it go. Like don't antagonize
it. Just let it go. And theneverybody Anybody else is
running around just being funnyand just Haha, just laugh just
laugh. I'm like, I don't wantthat. So it was hard and, and
then the lies like this personlie like we just straight up lie

(50:19):
like that, like right they wouldtell me, Hey, can you go to the
store and get some you know,sodas or something for the party
or whatever for the house. Okay,go store and get that when
you're back then somebody wouldcomplain like, Oh, why did you

(50:43):
get these sodas? That person togo get this done? We'll be like
yeah, why did you get that? I'dbe like, wait what? You said it
will get the I don't know whatyou're talking about? No I did
it. Yep. You told me I didn'teven want this so that you said
you wanted this soda? Why areyou? How do I let that go? How

(51:04):
do I go? Oh, okay, I'mmisunderstood. I know like,
here's the paper like I wrotedown exactly what you said. Oh
my god, and it was alwayssomething like that. Oh, can
you? I don't worry, don't bethere. I'm gonna go and take

(51:26):
care of this situation with ourparents. Okay, and then my mom
would call me Hey, I'm supposedto be somewhere at a doctor's
appointment. Yeah, so saidthey're gonna be there. No,
they're, they're not here. Theysaid you were gonna do it. I
just yet to them. I mean, whatare you talking about? Like, no,

(51:50):
they said, they were gonna bethere like, oh, shoot, mom, hold
on, okay, we, you know, and thenI don't have time to be like,
well, let me I'll deal with themlater. Like, I gotta get you to
your appointment, because we'regoing to be late and you know,
blah, blah, blah. And then, youknow, Labor's like, I'm gonna
like you said, you got to know Idid it. I didn't. I didn't say
that. You must have missed youmisunderstood. Miss understand

(52:12):
you. You did so it wasconstantly it was that? And then
what are you saying stuff toeverybody else? And they just
look at me like, well, I didn'tpromise to take anybody
anywhere. I wasn't. I reallyknow what you're talking about.
Like, yeah, okay, whatever. Likeis mom okay? Yeah, she's fine.

(52:35):
All right. And I'm like, no,they lie. They said they were
going to be somewhere. Well,maybe they just got caught up
somewhere. No, they did not getcaught up somewhere. They said
they were going to do something.
They did not do that. Like, youknow, it wasn't. And then if you
if you get caught up, you knowwhat, there are steps to Hey, so

(52:57):
and so. I know. I said I wasgoing to be there. But sure
we're on the other side of town.
We're not going to be able tomake it in time. Do you think
you can go and take care ofthis? Oh, yeah, sure. Okay. No,
that response is I didn't saythat. Oh, like, there's no

accountability.

None. There's none. I can Nandy none, zilch,
zero. And it didn't matter. Itdidn't matter. The amount of
chaos hurt, pain involved withothers. There was zero
accountability. Which boggled mymind, because I'm such a if I do
something wrong, who I am sosorry. And let me fix this. And

(53:42):
I will walk you through thatright there. They did on? Yeah.
Yeah.

It's like subconsciously, energetically,
they know. They can target you.
Like within five minutes. Theyknow who they can do that with
and who they can't. And it'scrazy.

I know. I know. I know. But then it became
a nap. It became me. But what Itold myself at the end was, you
know that saying, you can'tchange can't change the stripes
of a tiger. Hmm. Right. Like,that's just what they are.
That's just they are a tiger. Oryou can't change a lion. They

(54:19):
gotta eat, right? They're apredator. They have to eat. You
can't be mad at them becausethey're just doing what they are
born and bred to do. So when thescorpion and the frog Yeah,
like, exactly. It was totallythat and when I heard that, and
I saw that and I thought aboutthat. That was my, oh, why do I

(54:42):
keep jumping in front of the,you know, Lion saying here but
being vegetarian. It's good foryou. We'll all be happy if you
just vegetables. Don't look atlittle lamb. Like I'm not a
little I'm a little flexible,you know, like, come on. But so
that I was like, Wait, charity,you're the idiot, you just keep

(55:02):
going back up in there and goingback up there and going, and
that person's not going tochange, nothing you do is going
to change. So that was when Isaid, I don't care. But unlike
yourself, I had to completelycut this person off. Like there

(55:22):
was no, because it was years, itwas years and years and years
and years and years and yearsand years.

They always been like that.

Yes, they had. But there were periods of
time where I wasn't involvedwith them. So it didn't matter.
But it all came to home when Ihad returned home to take care
of my parents, so I could notavoid them, like couldn't go
like, whatever. I'm likeCalifornia living my best life,

(55:54):
I don't really care what you do.
I gotta be like everybody else,just like, Whatever, I'm going
to my own house. I was like, Ihad a key, you know, going in
there and dealing with it. Sobut the, the pain was, so let's
sell deep, it hurt. It hurt alot. And it kept hurting and

(56:15):
hurt me to my core. And Icouldn't explain this to my
other family members. Like theyweren't getting it. They were
just like, like, okay, yeah, wekind of we saw that. But like,
what, they just let it go. Butthey were not receiving it full
long, like I was walking on andI was just getting punched full

(56:41):
on to the face. Like they wereable to dodge stuff. And just,
and they knew like later after Isaid why I was taking the steps
and the actions that I were theywere like, Yeah, that makes
sense. Like, yeah, she didn't dothat. Yeah, that did have this
like, but when I was reachingout and saying how you know, or
like, backing me up, like, Comeon, guys, let's do this. We can,

(57:03):
you know, take them downtogether unity, they were like,
you go right on ahead. We'reright behind you. Like, okay, do
bed like you believe? Again?

When did you find out it was gaslighting? Like
when did you put a name?

I cut them off. Like I took them off first.
Like I just went cold turkey andjust like then I still couldn't
let it go. So I was looking atthe Internet, right? And not the
Internet gives you informationthat there are articles coming
up. And they're like, and I waslike, and narcissism was a
thing. It was a word that wascoming up like a lot. And I'm

(57:48):
reading through it. And I waslike, Oh, yes, yes. Yeah, like,
narcissist. That's the word theyare total. Like, I finally like,
there was a word for it.
remember going to my siblingsand like I'm like yelling in the
phone. Like are you? You know,she couldn't even talk to me at

(58:15):
that point. Because I was justso she's gonna talk to you
later. Then she called me andsaid, Okay, she looked at what I
had sent. And I was like, yeah,yeah, that sounds about right.
Yeah. Okay, like, I hear younow. Like, I get it. So,

just like awareness is powerful.

It really is.
It's, it's giving it a name.
It's not in your mind. You'renot making it on love. You're
not being defensive. You're notoverreacting. It's a real thing.

That's a real thing.

It's a very, very real thing gaslighting and
you know what, okay, so thishappened with a sibling and but
it can happen to you with yourpartner. But it can also happen
at work and with your children,your peers and your your boss,

(59:16):
your own boss. Oh yeah, I can dothis. And so then I would say
like, you feel really hopelessand helpless in that kind of
situation. Like I reallywouldn't know what to tell you
to do with that because that's alittle trickier to

expose. But I don't think it's exposure I
think that's just it from whatI've been learning. There's no
way to change them. There'snothing that can change them I
guess the me to movement Ialways thought was them putting
the light on gaslighting is whatI felt because they were all
gaslight they were all gaslit atto some degree, right? It was.

(59:54):
You do this to get something andthen if you talk about it, we're
going to shame you and tell youthat you're overreacting you're
over sent They've or that didn'thappen. I mean, it was a lot of
that going on. And I felt likethey're, you know, unless they
do something that you canlegally get them on, there's not
much you can do to change thebehavior. The only way that I've

(01:00:16):
been understanding, and I'm surethere's other ways, but the only
way that I have understood isfor me to have more self love,
self assurance, self worth selfesteem. And then it's easier to
just say, No, that's not okay.
And to be unaffected, there'slike this energetic tie to
because even when I would standin my power, well, even when I
would throw up a boundary,because internally, I was still

(01:00:40):
not sure about myself, I wasquestioning like, am I being too
boundaried? Am I not beingenough? Was that the right? It
would just fall over? Yeah.
Until I was totally sure that inmy authentic self, there's no
way that that is that behavioris okay. With a boundary stick.
And I think me actually goingthrough with the divorce was the

(01:01:03):
final boundary that stuck,because I always said I would
never threatened divorce unlessI meant it. And I didn't that
whole time. I never said theword. He'd throw it out every
other week. But I did not. Andthen when I did, it was done. So
for me, that was a big,energetic reminder that I can

(01:01:23):
hold a boundary for myself, nomatter how bad I mean, it's
still terrible. The gaslightinggoes on, it's gotten better,
because I don't engage. I don'tpick up the rope. I just stick
to the facts. And everycommunication we have is written
so that I can take screenshotsand say this is what was said.

(01:01:43):
Right? Because, and, you know,people have this, like that
happened. I forget sometimes,you know, but I'm the first to
go. Oh, I'm so sorry. Let meright now, I will admit that I
didn't do that with him. I wouldnever apologize to him. Because
he was, it didn't have anyenergy left. It was like, if I
apologize, he's gonna take fullreign over my acre. You know, if

(01:02:05):
I do if I say I'm sorry, it'sall over for me. So with him, I
didn't with other people in mylife. I will say, I made a
mistake. Yes. Yes. You know, andI apologize. And maybe this is
how we can do things movingforward. Or I should have paid
attention or I overbooked or,you know, anyway, so I think

(01:02:26):
just really standing in ourpower.

Charity Rodriguez (01:02:28):
We did the same. I would never apologize to
this person, either. Nope. Wouldit because you're tired, you're
exhausted, you're kind of beatdown. It's just like, but having
that energy, stick to it. Ittakes a lot.

Jennifer Wong (01:02:45):
It takes a community, man. In some cases.
Now, I needed my girlfriend's tohold my hand and walk with me. I
needed to know that somebody wasactually not thinking I was a
pile. You know, I needed someoneto believe in me. Because I
didn't have enough obviously.

Okay, I didn't have a big community. I
had a community of one. And thatwas my husband. But he's my
biggest champion. And he saw Hesaw exactly what I saw. So I
think maybe that was keptempower me to get back in there
and thinking I could change nicebecause not he saw it and he

(01:03:26):
knew that that was not right.
And, and I didn't have to saytwice. I didn't have to convince
him. Why when I said, You knowwhat, I've had enough. I'm done.
I'm cutting this person off. Hewasn't like, well, you know
what, maybe for your mom and dadsay he should get up here. Yeah,
let's do it. And it wasn't Yeah,you do it. He was like, let's do

(01:03:47):
it. We're gonna do it. So it'sjust like, you just like, like,
at least I got you so I don'tlike nobody else. felt bad.
Like, I I thought I was gonnalose all of my other brothers
and sisters having a you know,by saying this and being so
stern. But I didn't. And so butthere was that fear. Like, I

(01:04:13):
didn't know I didn't know whatyou think people are going to
hug. You know, when you falldown, gonna hug you and go like,
it's okay. That's not alwayswhat happens. Right? It's like,
just suck it up and get back inprint. Just say it's an outdoor,
it's not a big deal. So it'slike, Okay, fine. But yeah,
gotten to that point and, youknow, whatever. So, there you

(01:04:34):
go. Okay. How are you feelingnow? Feel great. That it good,
good point that we've gotten itout of our system

and been able to share some experience strength
and hope.

Yes, experience. That's, I'm glad
that you said that because thoseare awesome. I have to keep
reminding myself. It isexperience strength and we are
trying to impart experience,strength, and hope. And we hope
that, you know, we can build acommunity of people that through
sharing our experience, it justgives them hope to change their

(01:05:14):
narrative.

Yeah, expanded perspectives to connect and
relate.

So, okay, but I have my last little words that
I just when I told you that,like, I want to make sure that
we say this to everybody thateveryone that's listening, that
you are not to blame forexperiencing, or having dealt
with gaslighting. Nothing,nothing you personally do causes

(01:05:45):
the person or abuser to behavethat way. They just are that
way. are like, it's not you,they may be saying to you, like,
look at what you made me do lookat how, you know, like, if you
would have just done this, Iwouldn't, you know, be saying
these things, but no, like, thisis that person, this is their

(01:06:05):
choice to speak to you in thatmanner, their choice to, you
know, say the things that theyare saying to you. And finally,
you won't be able to change whatthey're doing. That's

the only change is you taking that energy that
you spend on them to yourself,for self love, self worth, self
acceptance.

And this is for everyone. People that
hearing the perspective of twowomen, but this happens to men
to happen absolutely doeshappen. It just happens to
everyone. So

at some point, and not all gaslighting is
narcissism. No, some of us arejust used to doing that. Yeah, I
have to watch myself. All right.
All right, charity. Well, thatwas awesome. Thank you,
everybody that listened all theway through and stuck in with
us.

All right.
We'll see you guys in two weeks.

All right. Bye for now.

Yay. Thank you for listening to being
effing honest with your hosts,Jennifer Wong and charity
Rodriguez. Subscribe to our showwherever you listen to podcasts.
And if you have a suggestion,question or topic you want us to
talk about, connect with us atwww being effing honest.com And
until next time, we hope you'realways being effing honest

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Gaslighting - What does that mean? Do you even know if it's happening to you?

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Gaslighting - What does that mean? Do you even know if it's happening to you?