August 12, 2022 • 56 mins
Our latest episode covers the most controversial topic yet, and the honesty Charity and I offer is raw and eye opening. I am clenching my body and forgetting to breathe at times in anticipation of listeners potential reactions.
No regrets! The sharing allowed us to get to know each other better and find a deeper level of compassion for one another - an our children.
We welcome your feedback on this topic which is subject to infinite perspectives. Help us know our listeners and build a community of brave individuals willing to Be F*ing Honest!
Summary Keywords: women , abortion , felt , support , people , men , laws , effing , friend , ritual , roe , blinders , children , thought , baby , talk , compassion , heard , happened ,
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jennifer Wong (00:05):
Hello, and welcome to Our Podcast being
effing honest, I'm JenniferWong. And I'm Charity Rodrigues.
We invite you into ourconversations about everyday
issues experienced by everydaypeople. We share our stories
with honesty and humor, hopingto bring people together in
community by showing howvulnerability can deepen bonds
(00:25):
when done with kindness and nonjudgment. We know it's tough, so
we'll go ahead and go first.
Charity Rodriguez (00:47):
I'm going to be very effing honest, this
episode almost didn't happen. Atfirst due to fear, uncertainty
and doubt on our part. And thenbecause of gremlins. When the
decision first leaked, we werehesitant to speak to each other,
let alone on the show. Should wesay anything? Initially, we
(01:11):
didn't even discuss our views,experiences and thoughts on
abortion with each other, letalone broach it as a show topic.
After some exhaustive dancingaround the elephant in the room,
we finally broke down and agreedto record a conversation as an
episode, so our audience wouldget our raw responses. Full
(01:32):
disclosure, that firstconversation left us in tears.
Little did we know that due totechnical difficulties, we'd
have the same conversation threetimes each as emotionally
impactful as the first. Ourrecording equipment had silently
(01:54):
failed on the first attempt. Sowe tried again, Jennifer
returning empowered by eachattempt, only to have a similar
experience. We tried a thirdtime, full of equal parts hope
and trepidation, as it startedout, Rocky, but finally, Holy
Toledo, we had a recording. Weare very proud of this episode,
(02:19):
as it demonstrated to us thepower we have as women to
control our narratives, ourbodies and our lives, through
our ability to be vulnerable,compassionate, and transparent.
This is one of those moments inhistory for women to stop being
nice. And start being effinghonest. Okay,
Jennifer Wong (02:44):
we are here we are recording we are working.
Yes, lots of deep breaths. Weare learning technology like
nobody's business.
Charity Rodriguez (02:56):
So true.
Jennifer Wong (02:58):
I've learned more than I ever do.
Charity Rodriguez (03:00):
Yeah, we'll get this figured out sooner or
later, for sure.
Jennifer Wong (03:04):
But it's exciting, because now we're
gonna sound more professionalpeople can hear us better. We're
going to be video at some point.
So this is good.
Charity Rodriguez (03:12):
Yes, excited.
Me excited. I know me too.
Jennifer Wong (03:16):
We've come a long way. And I just want to
celebrate that I loved seeingthat we had 200 downloads. I
know that does, you know,compared to everybody else, it's
not much, but I am excited. It'sgrow.
Charity Rodriguez (03:28):
I know I'm super excited to just like, oh,
I every time a Buzzsprout sendsup that you've hit, you know,
100 then then to find deals likeand they have the confetti and
the party has this like yes,it's a party.
Jennifer Wong (03:46):
It's so fun.
Cool. So thank you everybodythat listens and takes the time
to give us a review orsubscribes. I'm really grateful.
Really cool. And thank youcharity for getting our website
up at WWW dot being effinghonest.com. So we have our blog
there now and we have all of ourpodcast episodes and people can
(04:08):
leave comments. We'd love to
Charity Rodriguez (04:12):
hear yes.
Yeah, pretty excited about that.
Definitely keep checking backbecause we're adding more
content and links and justexciting information. So
Jennifer Wong (04:26):
very exciting. So today's topic, something we have
to let everybody know beingeffing honest, we have tried to
record this episode three times.
And mostly on my end, findingout I don't have enough storage,
finding all kinds of stuff, butwe are learning. So let's see
how this goes today.
Charity Rodriguez (04:47):
While also superstitious me. I'm like,
maybe we weren't supposed totalk about this. This is the
God's saying no, or this is likemy parents their spirits saying
charity You don't go there. Itotally I'm like, okay, maybe I
shouldn't talk about this. Buthere we go. Here we are. We are
(05:09):
brave and bold. We're going todo this.
Jennifer Wong (05:12):
Yes, we are. And maybe it's just that it's such
an intense and huge issue, youknow, overturning of Roe versus
Wade, after 50 years of it beingthe law. It's very odd. Yeah,
it's all of a sudden just rippedout from under us. And spurring
a lot of discussions andconflict and all kinds of stuff.
(05:33):
Plus, you know, we're in the,we're still under the spell of
COVID, and all of that. So it'sjust a small twist time, and we
are going through so much. Soabsolutely are, it seems
interesting that this ishappening at the same time, but
like, one of my spiritual mentorsays, she said, we are in the
(05:57):
compost. You know, this is thetime in our evolution in our
history in the cyclical period,where things are getting broken
down old stuff that wasn'tworking anymore, is coming to
the surface thing. You know,none of this stuff that is going
on, I think is new, it's alwaysbeen vibrating at the foundation
(06:18):
of the fabric of our countryanyway. And with certain
administrations, it's beenopened up and available to come
forth. So it's just coming tothe light. So we'll see I agree,
but
Charity Rodriguez (06:32):
no, I totally agree.
Jennifer Wong (06:35):
And I know that we have discussed this three
times now. So we've talked abouta lot of things with Roe versus
Wade a lot.
Charity Rodriguez (06:43):
We have, I've learned so much. So much. And
it's had my I mean, you got methinking you got me thinking a
lot. I did not realize how Iguess in the dark or with my
(07:05):
blinders, I really walk aroundwith my blinders on a lot. How
about that?
Jennifer Wong (07:10):
So what does that mean?
Charity Rodriguez (07:14):
Well, I don't know. No, no, no. It's, um,
yeah, no, I was okay. I, forthis episode, I really wanted to
make sure that I was concise,that I was focused, that I said
(07:34):
exactly what I meant, and thatit was very clear. So I was
writing out, you know, somethings and I thought it was best
to write it out. Because Iwanted to put that, like, since
we have our blog, I was gonna,like, put, you know, the notes
of what, but I just like, Ipersonally, I believed that I
(08:03):
had no vested interest inabortion, as it did not, would
not ever apply to me. Okay, somy parents didn't discuss such
matters. I was raised thinkingabortion was for wayward girls
or women who got into troublefor, you know, whatever reason
(08:27):
and needed to take care ofsomething discreetly. I also
thought that it was somethingwealthy women did to continue
living their glamorous andflawless lives. And so that,
that was my my thinking. That'swhere I was at, before June 24.
(08:48):
And then, June 24, came and thateverything leading up to June
24, like I was in like, oh mygosh, and that really shattered
my bubble. Because when the newshit that the Supreme Court, you
(09:09):
know, might overturn Roe vs.
Wade. I just thought I wouldcontinue with my blinders on and
I was going to ignore all thenoise and just, you know, go
along and sing my song and like,whatever that has nothing to do
with me, except, except I forgotthat I have a daughter here in
the house with me. I forgot mydaughter's voice. And our
(09:35):
daughter, her friends, theirpeers, you know, social media
kept bringing up the topic. Andthey were, they were a gas you
know, they were aghast andfrustrated. I was But gassed,
(09:58):
and frustrated or I guess maybescared? Because I was like, why
did we have to keep talkingabout this? Like, I didn't want
to talk about it. But I didn'twant to say to her stop talking
about that, like we don't thatdoes has nothing to do with us.
But she kept pulling, pulling,you know, her hesitant mom into
(10:20):
the fray. And I, you know,almost said why do you care so
much, this has nothing to dowith you, and it never will. But
she kind of beat to the punch byreminding me and bringing into
my conscious, I'm not evenreminding you that bringing to
(10:41):
my consciousness because thiswas so like very deep. I was
just really was not. This wasnot in my world sphere, that she
reminded me that this decisionwasn't about abortion. But it
was about privacy. It was aboutautonomy. It was about control.
And by overturning Roe versusWade, the Supreme Court told the
(11:09):
women of America that the momentyou conceive, your body is no
longer your
Jennifer Wong (11:20):
own. Yes.
Charity Rodriguez (11:22):
And when she, you know, framed it like that,
and was telling me all of all ofthat it it you know, now the
state has the right to controlyour body to control your life,
no matter how deeply personal,the emotional, physical cause
(11:49):
that you have to bear, it doesnot matter. Like they don't
care. And that that was tough. Imean, it was really, it was
really tough. And I have to saythat. Although I was cared and
(12:10):
very timid, very hesitant tostep I wasn't stepping with her,
I was stepping behind herbecause she is now leading, you
know, the way she's like, Mom,we have to do this, let's go
like, You got to be involved.
And I felt like, okay, like, Iwanted to be brave, I want it to
(12:34):
be bold, because that's what Itell her to be and try to
encourage her to be and try tomodel for her. And here was a
moment where I was about toshriek back into the safety of
my little, you know, cozyexistence. And she's like, Let's
go they fully I could see she'slooking at my eyes like, of
(12:54):
course, you're gonna do this,you're my Mom, let's go come on.
I was like, like real? Come on,like, dude, let's just sit let's
have a cup of tea. And let'sjust chat about it.
Jennifer Wong (13:11):
And let's keep it in this bubble.
Charity Rodriguez (13:13):
can't exactly do it like that. But I have to
say that I've never felt prouderof my daughter, and so happy
that she was able to pull mefrom my perch and realized that,
like, you know, my husband and Iwere talking about it that this
(13:38):
was her standing up. This washer asserting herself, her
values, her understanding. Andwhat she was communicating to us
was that she realized, and sheassumed that we realize this,
too, that everyone needs ourcompassion and not our judgment.
(14:00):
Thank you. And, you know, thenwe were able to talk about,
yeah, life is messy. And peoplehave the right to determine
their own fates, and decidewhat's best for them and their
families. And that it's no oneelse's business. No one is not
(14:27):
my business. My neighbor doesnot need to be getting into my
business. I don't need to begetting into their business. Not
that like I'd have that hasnothing to do with me if some,
you know, what the woman isgoing through and whatever her
support system is, you know,enduring that the government
doesn't be involved in that and
Jennifer Wong (14:51):
and I love that you brought up your daughter
because they're our daughters,our oldest are really close in
age. And my oh I just felt verysimilar, like what I mean, she
actually woke me up, the minuteshe saw on social media or
wherever she gets her news thatthe draft was out. She told me
(15:12):
before anybody else did, and shewas up in arms woke me up was
just like, I can't. I mean, itwas like, as if it was very
personal to her. And it's thatway for a lot of her friends.
And I really appreciate how youtalked about your bubble. And we
have had that conversation a fewtimes about our bubbles, you
(15:32):
know, like, yeah, we just wantto control what's right here,
because it's a lot. And we don'thave really reference for
everybody else. And I mean, Itotally get that. And, and so
how has it How has your opinionchanged about Roe versus Wade?
(15:54):
Or about just the choice ingeneral?
Charity Rodriguez (15:58):
I don't think it's for me to judge. I don't
think I cannot be if we're goingto espouse religion, I'll
espouse compassion. I'll espouselove, all espouse support, all
espouse, you know, help yourneighbor, you know, when they
(16:21):
need help, I'm not going toespouse you know, righteousness
and the, we need to put ascarlet letter on you and Dan
you to the, you know, depths ofthe hell, like I'm not the
(16:41):
judge, whatever, whoever yourhigher being, your spiritual
being your, whatever you go,that's, that's where you need to
go to, you go there, you makeyour peace, that's between you
and them. And that's, that'syou, that's you, this isn't
anything new, this isn'tsomething that just came about
(17:02):
because of television, or womenwearing jeans on TV that, you
know, like, or whatever, right?
Because people will pull fromall sorts of nonsense. These
things have been happening sincethe beginning of time. And so
it's just people, you know, Idon't know, it's life is messy.
(17:22):
It's not a simple black andwhite, it's not an easy, like,
Oh, I see where you made themistake there. See, you
shouldn't have done that. It'sjust things happened. And
everybody's story is a littlebit different. And just let
people deal with what they haveto deal with. And they just have
(17:45):
the right to some medicalsupport, they need to have the
right to not have neighborsknocking on them, or whatever
they need to be able to go abouttheir business. Not in fear. But
I mean, that we have so muchfear already.
Jennifer Wong (18:11):
I think that has a lot to do with it. You know,
when I when I heard about this,I I wanted to do the research.
But you know, me, I'm not thehuge researcher, mainly because
I don't trust the researchsources. But I do have a good
friend who he was one of theleading humanitarian attorneys
for the US for years, probablyin the 90s and early 2000s. And
(18:35):
so I go to him, I'm like,Alright, you've been in the
trenches. You You've writtenbriefs for the Supreme Court,
you know, the laws lay on me,brother. So I've been asking him
over time, you know, I and Ijust had specific questions. I
mean, it's huge, right? It'shuge. And the funny thing is,
(18:56):
why are women's bodies even upfor law? Like, yeah, in the very
first place? Where are men'sbodies? Where are their laws
regulating men's bodies andchoices? Why is a woman even
considered to put a law againstin the first place? I mean, that
that we need to look at, like,yes, the heck is going on there.
(19:20):
Yeah. And then, you know, andthen they have another male
friend who, you know, it'sgreat. I have these male
friends, right? So this is sucha great opportunity to speak
with them about this. And myother male friend is he's super
intelligent, does does a lot ofresearch, and I know him through
my paying job. And we have verydifferent opinions on this. And
(19:46):
we had a really longconversation, which was really
beautiful, actually, because westill found common ground and I
got to hear his perspective. Andhe got to your mind, which was
brilliant. Like, this is what Iwould hope for everybody is to
be able to not hate each otherbecause you get a different
perspective. But in the end,does a law need to support one
(20:11):
belief system? I have a problemwith that. So because his his
take on it was? Well, I thinkthe issue begins with where you
determine life begins. Becausefor some people, this is murder.
Right? Right, this becomes alegal issue, you're not allowed
to murder. Okay. So he, his histake was, it really depends on
(20:37):
where you see life begins. Thatis a big part of the issue,
right? Because in his, in hisbelief, it was the moment the
egg and the sperm unite andsomething starts to grow. In my
opinion, that's not viable life.
Right. So then it got into thedetails of that. So but I
(20:57):
understood how it could feellike by making this decision,
it's ending life. So I was like,Maybe that is why it's even a
lot. And then my lawyer friend,and I said, well, that becomes a
belief system. Right, which is,in my experience, it's been
(21:17):
religious, depending on yourreligious beliefs when that
happens, because science issaying one thing religion is
saying another thing, right, sowho wins? But this overturning
of Roe versus Wade made mebelieve that who was winning is
the religious sector, becauseit's their belief that's being
supported, not a scientificbelief. Right? Because I think
(21:40):
there have been states that havesaid, you know, over so many
weeks, right, like, you can't doit when it's could live outside
your body. Right? I mean, right.
Right. Right. That's a wholedifferent story. Right. And, and
then I said, Well, isn't theresomething in the Constitution
that says you cannot? You haveto have a separation of church
(22:07):
and state. And then he wentthrough the amends like the
amendments with the Yeah, theamendments with me. And
basically, what it says is, thegovernment cannot keep a
religion from for me, agovernment cannot discriminate
(22:29):
against religions. But as far asthe government supporting a
religion, yes, they can. Yes,they can. So it was just a good
awakening for me, because I keptfighting on that, like, what
about the separation of churchand state? Well, it's not what I
thought it was. Right? Itdoesn't mean that they can't
(22:52):
instill laws or implement laws,based on a religious belief.
There's nowhere in that, thatsays that. So it's all legal as
far as that's concerned. So thatwas really a hard pill to
swallow. So that makes me alittle bit crazy, too, that we
are subject to the laws of onebelief system. We have freedom
(23:17):
and that, and as long as we'reregulated, as long as women, as
bodies are regulated, we do nothave full freedom. We do not get
liberty for all we do notbecause liberty is freedom. And
once laws start inhibiting ourfreedom, we've lost our liberty.
So how is that? You know, how isthat but
Charity Rodriguez (23:38):
it apparently is okay for women to be on the
losing end of the stick. Itdoesn't matter. Because we are
being controlled. But the thingtoo, is that I wanted to make
sure I stated was we need tostep back and keep stepping back
(23:59):
and keep stepping back. Becausebefore we even like, touch on
the abortion, right, there areall of these other issues that
if we had better support systemthat works in place to help
people, women, families, maybethey would lessen the having to
(24:23):
have abortion as a choiceoption. Right, if there was
more, I don't know, equalizedspread of the wealth. If there
was more education foreverybody, you know, sex
education project, because thething that like that a lot of
(24:44):
the times the religious right,don't want to talk about sex.
That's just not something wetalk about. And then things
happen. And children are like, Idon't know what happened. How
did this happen to me like whatthe you know, and then it
compound's the situation rightnow. There's blame on it's
everybody else's fault. It'slike, well, everyone had a part
(25:09):
to play. And just because you'reignorant, and what does it mean,
you know, like, we need to havemore resources, we need to have
more support, we need to havemore understanding for everyone.
And then so that, you know, whenyou do get to that option, it's
(25:33):
a Yeah, okay. Wow, you know,you've eliminated all these
other nonsense things, becausemaybe, maybe they would happily
go. Yeah, I'm gonna have thatbaby. It's okay. Because I'm
financially secure. I haveeducation, I have medical
support, you know, for my baby,for my family, I have enough
(25:56):
leave to you know, be but maybeand, and then there's support
from your community, right,because a lot of women have come
forward. And given theirpersonal stories of what has
happened, and, you know, andwhen it's happened and what
happened. And they didn't stepforward before because they were
(26:21):
going to be shunned. Right,because now everyone that that
criticism that judgment. And itcould be, it could have been
like, well, who the heck careswhat the reason was, doesn't
mean it matter what the reasonwas, doesn't matter if it was a
(26:42):
one night stand doesn't matterif it was some medical reason,
like just the fact that they hadto go through this. And they had
to go through it in quiet, like,and, you know, keep it out to
themselves. Like, you know,that's, that's trauma, that's
emotional, mental health. Theywere talking about all of that.
(27:02):
And but it doesn't matter. Itdoesn't matter what your mental
health state of being was beforeor after, doesn't matter what
your emotional state before orafter, doesn't matter. Your
economic doesn't matter. Theyjust don't care. And it's just
like, No, we're just going toimprison you. We're going to
take away your rights. And we'regoing to, you know, and
(27:22):
everybody around you, it's backto the Middle Ages, I quit some
of this stuff. And it's likethat we're how, how and why. So
my friend
Jennifer Wong (27:32):
said, If we went back to the Dark Ages, women had
more rights. That's the MiddleAges where everything gets
screwed up. Yeah, I agree. Ithink community and I think
knowledge, I think getting theshame, you know, shame loves
silence. It just builds andgrows, you know, yeah, shame
loves when we're quiet about it.
So. And then in that quietness,we become fearful. And look how
(27:55):
easy it is to control. You know,there's fear, the answer is
always control. Well, yeah, theunconscious answer is control.
So
Charity Rodriguez (28:07):
it's all of these things that women have to
go through all of these things,and then you're still expected
to run your household. I mean, Idon't care what people say. The
woman is still expected tomollify task and swallow their
feelings, swallow their emotion,swallow their trauma, swallow
(28:29):
whatever, because for thebetterment of their child for
the betterment of their partner,for the betterment of their
families, the greater, you know,families and a woman like okay,
yeah, you're a woman, you canyou can cry, but you can only
cry for so much. And then yougotta get back to it. But it's
just, I don't know, I know.
Jennifer Wong (28:49):
And I talked, I had a friend remind me,
Jennifer, you're always free.
You're always free. And it'sjust a matter, I guess, of being
innovative and having boundariesand learning about our own
strength. Because, yeah, the lawsays that. But there's always
going to be a way hopefully. Idon't know. It's very, very
(29:12):
tricky. And I was thinking,Well, you know, one argument was
men should be held accountable.
It's not like a woman can justreproduce on her own without
amoebas. But I don't know if Ireally want that either. I don't
want a man to all of a suddenhave a say in this over my body.
(29:33):
You know, I don't I don't thinkthat's appropriate, either. I
think there should becommunication, there should
definitely see thatconversation. There should be an
agreement, you know, and thatgoes with the support, right? If
you're learning how tocommunicate and standing your
truth and really identify what'sgoing on. It may create a
different conversation where theresults are different, but
(29:57):
that's not where we're at. andthat the thought of a man just
being, you know, how are you?
How is a man going to becomeaccountable for my body? Again,
it's already why we're in thisproblem because men have felt
entitled to have control overour bodies. So I just
Charity Rodriguez (30:17):
want to control your body. But okay, one
thing you said that you werefree. And then you said that we
should have discussions,communication, you know, with
the man and I. Okay, I don'tknow how to express this, like,
(30:43):
let me formulate this thought.
We have a men, a man and a womancan agree that like, we're gonna
get dizzy. And you know, then ifthe man decides he does not want
to stay, for the after, for theaftermath, for the raising the
child for the caring for thechild for the emotional,
(31:04):
financial and physicalinvestment of the child, the guy
can just walk away, and I don'tcare. I'm not talking about
well, they still have to pay,you know, something, there are
so many women that are stillgoing after guys trying to get
them to pay. There are so manyguys that have gone left the
country changed their names liketotally, so that they're not
(31:26):
involved with that woman. Andthen they could care less about
the kids. Like they're not eventhere's no even after thought
of. But what about how this isgonna affect the children? No,
like, what about that? Like,they're talking about the
children right now. But then howare we holding accountable the
men that just bail, juststraight up bail. And this is
(31:52):
across all economic. You know,the economic spectrum. You have
men that have money, they canafford all these babies left and
right. But even then they'rejust like, You know what, it's
just too much work with thisbaby. The first one like,
Whatever, I'm gonna go startover new over here, you know,
(32:13):
with this new Suzie Q, and I'mgonna be the best father there
is with this unit. But you stillhave two kids over here. Like,
what about them, but it doesn'tmatter. They can just erase that
they can just, you know, Fatherthat says that stays Awesome.
Great. I'm not talking aboutyou. So I'm definitely we're
(32:36):
not. I'm not saying all men areevil that No, I'm not. But we
have far more men that arewilling and interested in you
know, doing everything to createthat baby, but then walk, they
can walk their life is notaffected. Maybe, you know, they
(32:58):
can keep on working, choose topay not to pay. It'll just keep
on compounding sometimes, Idon't know, I've heard that
courts can go after you. Right,and like dock, your pay? And,
you know, whatever. I don't knowhow often that happens. Yeah, if
they can find you, right, like,you know, gets caught up in
court, you're having a get offyour job to go to court to get
(33:23):
something written. So they'relike, I need this man to pay for
the baby. Right? You know, I'mworking three jobs, and I can't
afford to take time off to cometo this court because this
person won't hold up to theirend of the Union.
Jennifer Wong (33:42):
So obviously, courts have not been able to
even hold them accountable. Andthat
Charity Rodriguez (33:47):
it just clear that they're interested, like,
why aren't you go aftersomething like that.
Jennifer Wong (33:52):
And then the law basically says, we care all
about this baby. And then onceit's born, we don't give a shit
anymore. Boom. So who's going toemotionally raise it? Who's
gonna, you know, not onlyfinancially, I mean, there's
this huge emotional thing. Theemotions that are what about
kids that are born as a resultof rape or incest? Yeah, how's
(34:13):
that gonna affect them?
Charity Rodriguez (34:15):
They don't care. They have said that they
do not care. There is no supportto that mother. Child. You know,
there's nothing there. Theyweren't talking about if, you
know, maybe what was it thatthey there was something that on
lady said, like, well, maybethis will help her step up. And,
(34:35):
and, you know, see what a greatmother and what a great
opportunity this is for her todevelop into a fine young woman
and I was like, This is a youngkid that something horrible has
happened. I can't even deal withthe trauma of the rape because
now we're dealing with thetrauma of you're not going to
allow her to have an abortionand then the There's no support
(35:01):
for her. If she has the baby,because of the way our system is
set up, we shun people, we judgepeople, we criticize people.
We're not asking like, oh, well,what happened? What was your
story? How did you end up inthis situation? And maybe I'll
have a little more compassionfor you. Maybe I'll know. It's
just like, Ooh, a, Where werethose parents? Letting that girl
(35:22):
you know, be caught up in asituation like that? Then what
was she doing? What was shewearing? Oh, she was dressed
promiscuously. I mean, it's justall sorts of nonsense, versus
let's get them some medicalhelp. Let's get them some
financial and mental healthhelp. Let's make sure that
(35:45):
there's a process in place forthis child to continue with
their education, you know, tocontinue to be working towards
some kind of a future that theywill prosper. But we're quick to
cut the cord and just like,tennis Sucks to be you and move
on.
Jennifer Wong (36:06):
I know. And then my daughter brought to my
attention that certain statesare going to prosecute a woman
for going across state lines andhaving an abortion. And then
when she gets back then she is awoman who's had one while
resident in that state, andshe's gonna go to jail. So I
just think that is just in sane.
It's in sanity. I can tell youthat. So that reduces a woman's
(36:30):
freedom 100% while stilloffering no support for this
baby that may go into thesystem.
Charity Rodriguez (36:41):
Yeah. Yeah.
Great. Yeah. Isn't that it forlike, put the baby up for
adoption? No, but the woman isbeing prosecuted? Yep. Right.
And adoptions. Like the
Jennifer Wong (36:53):
best case scenario? My sister was in
children's protective servicesin the foster care system is a
complete and utter mess. Yeah.
Thank you. I've heard that Ooh,don't have an abortion, though.
That's a great high forchildren. That's wonderful. Good
job.
Charity Rodriguez (37:10):
Like, can we put some more resources into the
abortion and that system? Right?
Can we give them more money?
Give them more resources, givethose children better? No, no,
of course not. We're not goingto do that.
Jennifer Wong (37:22):
Like, we're just going to restrict women's
rights. It's way cheaper.
Charity Rodriguez (37:25):
Yeah, we're going up. It's the woman's
fault. Always the woman's fault.
For
Jennifer Wong (37:30):
a shame around it, I think is a big piece. It's
a huge piece. And if we listento each other stories, I I have
heard maybe five or six womenthat I know that have that have
had them. And not one person didit lightly. Not one person felt
good about it. You know, therewas so much emotional pain that
(37:57):
goes into it. You know? Yeah, noone just does it. Oh, no
problem. I can't say that,because I'm not every woman. But
in my experience, I haven't meta woman that was like, I don't I
didn't have any other choice.
Dun dun. And I haven't metanybody like that yet. And to be
honest, I mean, have I? Yes, Ihave had one, I have had one.
(38:20):
And it was actually upon havingone. And sharing it with my
close friends that I could trustwas when I heard other people's
stories. And that's when thatcompassion piece came in. And it
was almost like, every time wetalked about it, we kind of
healed each other a little bit.
And for me, I ended up doing aritual around it, because it
(38:44):
really affected me deeply. Youknow, and even though I was
busy, and I was raising a littleone at the time, and I was
super, super busy, it was reallyaffecting me. It really did
affect me. And for seven years,I think I held on to that. Maybe
like two or three close friendsknew about it. One of them knew
(39:05):
because I asked her to be therefor me, because the father
didn't want to be there anddidn't want anything to do with
it. Because he was in anagreement with it.
Charity Rodriguez (39:17):
So he didn't want anything to do with the
baby or the process that theprocedure you were going to
Jennifer Wong (39:23):
he wanted to go and didn't want to support my
process of not having anotherone. And you know, my reasons
were because I was super old.
And my body couldn't handle it.
I had a six month old and atthat time, I almost it was a
very hard pregnancy. And I myblood platelets got really low
(39:46):
and they were really, reallyworried that I was going to
bleed out. And they hadsuggested you probably shouldn't
have any more babies. Right?
That was medical advice. Andthen this happened and I didn't
know what to do. And so I calledupon On a friend that was super
solid that I could trust and shewent with me, she took the day
off of her work helped my sixmonth old while I could have
(40:07):
this horrible process done. Andeven the male doctor that did
the process shamed me, youbetter take care of yourself,
you better use prophylactics andI would suggest that your
husband get a vasectomy. And ifhe doesn't, I don't ever want to
see him in here again. It waslike, oh my god, I felt
terrible. Yeah, I remember himsaying that, and just all the
(40:29):
energy in my body just like,Whoa, I felt like a total piece
of shit. You know, it wasterrible. And it was just
interesting. It ended up I endedup having a huge spiritual
experience. Because at the timeI was in a, in a 12 step
program, not alcoholicsanonymous, but another one. And
(40:51):
I had a sponsor, who was workingwith me on the 12 steps. And we
were I think we were on thefirst or second step, which is
all about basicallyunderstanding what my higher
power was, and then giving mygiving everything up to it, you
know, like, I can only do somuch. But there's so much out of
(41:11):
my control. And my sponsor atthe time, who is now past, she
was really big on working withme on self love. So self love
was a big piece. And I needlessto say, I didn't love myself at
all. During this process. I feltterrible. I took on all the
guilt and shame that I had heardother people, judge others who
(41:36):
have had abortions, and I tookthat on, and maybe I believed it
a little bit to be so hard onmyself. You know, maybe I had
those judgments against womenthat had an abortion. So the
spiritual part that happened waswhile I was lying on the table,
and the procedure was going on.
(41:58):
I was praying, you know, forforgiveness. I mean, the whole
time I was just praying, pleaseforgive me. And suddenly, with
my eyes closed, there was thisbeautiful purple light. And all
I heard was, You are loved. Youare loved, you are loved, you
are loved. And I thought, well,that definitely wasn't coming
(42:20):
from me. Because at the time Iwas thinking, I am such a
horrible person. I am not worthyof love. I am just so sorry. I
was groveling to my higherpower. Just please forgive me,
please forgive me. And all Iheard moving on was You are
loved you are not to be loved.
And I cried. And I cried. Andthe doctor laughed, you know,
clean yourself up, you're done.
(42:42):
And when I got out, I found myfriend holding my six month old
and I just cried and cried andcried. And but that stayed with
me for a really long time. Thatwhere was that coming from? I am
loved. Because even when I wasgetting in the car, I was like,
No, I'm not. I'm such a horribleperson. This is the worst
(43:03):
possible thing, you know,because my head is my worst
enemy too. But then I thinkseven years later, I'm I have
another friend who does rituals.
And when I was going through mydivorce, all the red flags were
there. I went to go see herbecause she's a she's also a
counselor therapist. She's acoach, and but she also brings
(43:24):
into her work a lot of ritualsthat she learned from her mentor
from West Africa. And so as wewere working through this deep
grief and sadness and guilt thatI had over ending a marriage and
what it was gonna do to mychildren, we just got brought
up. And it's been seven years.
(43:46):
And she said, I think we need todo a ritual. And we did and it
was really beautiful. And Ifinally felt like I got to
really speak to the unborn soul.
And there was a healing, therewas a definite healing because
since then, I can talk aboutthis, and I don't cry. That was
(44:07):
back in 2019. It was three yearsago, I was never able to even
talk about that moment of nothaving that baby without
completely crying. And I stillfeel this deep sense of sadness.
But there was a lot of awarenessthat came through that ritual
too. And I know spirituality isvery unique to the individual.
(44:31):
And there's a lot of naysayers,but I heard things I saw things
in my meditations during thatritual that felt real and true.
And there's a lot I learnedabout myself in that. In that
process, you know about who I amand my strength and the ability
to love myself my ability toconnect with power greater than
(44:53):
myself. My ability to understandand really embody my belief
system. How to feel love to feelforgiveness to feel lessons
learned. You know, one of thethings that my I guess, the
woman that helped walked methrough that ritual had said, in
(45:16):
her teachers tradition, if asoul doesn't get born due to
abortion or miscarriage, itwasn't meant to be, you know,
maybe it knew that when it camein, and it was just to have that
experience, and to see how itaffected you and to see your own
belief systems and just, youknow, who knows, you know,
(45:37):
there's. So for me, it wasreally to learn about self love
and self forgiveness, you know,but here again, it's about
having compassion, it's aboutlistening to a woman's story
here in the whole, giving awoman the opportunity to process
it. I mean, I held in so muchthat I don't even think I knew
(45:59):
my full process of that event.
And I'm not saying everybody'sgonna feel like this. And this
is everybody's story by anymeans. But you had talked about
compassion and listening toother women. And I think that is
incredibly vital. And it's lifechanging, you know. And so now,
(46:26):
when I hear other women thatcannot have one, or they're
going to jail, all I want to dois grab a fan and go make it
happen. Yeah, I want to helpthem because I know how hard
that decision is to make.
Charity Rodriguez (46:41):
Well, and you've heard me say before, how
I feel that the government andjust people are trying to divide
and conquer, you know, us, ofpeople. And I feel like that's
another instance where womenneed to come together, like we
(47:01):
need to support each other, weshould not allow ourselves to be
broken down into thesefractions. Because at the end of
the day, we're women, we are allwomen, and we, it could happen
to you, it may happen to you, itdid happen to you, it will
happen, or it will affect you.
And or your daughter, niece,sister, like what ever and we
(47:29):
need to support each other, wehave so much judgment and
criticism already going upagainst us, like we don't need
to be against each other. Likethat's the last thing we need to
do is just to be like, Yeah, I'mgonna throw some eggs and
(47:49):
tomatoes at you, too, when youare down at your lowest. Because
that will show you that willteach you a lesson. Yeah, make
you see that, you know, this iswhat happens when you do
something like that, or getyourself in that situation or do
something, right. It's justlike, No, people. Everyone is
interpreting, you know,religion, that the Bible and
(48:15):
their understanding just I justdon't think that's exactly what
was meant. Just right. Justdon't think that that's what was
meant. And I do not profess tohave a direct link to God, I
have no idea. I am always wearyof people that think that they
(48:37):
have a direct link to God thatthey have gotten us on a, you
know, speed dial, and it's like,God told me, this is what I'm
like, oh, no, I back away fromthat. I like, yes. I believe
there is a God, I believe thereis a higher being, I have no
problem with that. And, but atthe end of the day, it's you
(49:01):
have to make your choices, makebest choices, you know, for
yourself or your family, soforth and so on. And you go from
there. Yeah, you go from there.
You can't we need to supporteach other. And yeah, I'm with
(49:23):
you. Like, yeah, let's get aband that's doing and I would
never have thought to do thatbefore like a charity shop. I
would just be like, again, withmy little blinders on. I'm like,
No, but I feel desperate. Now. Ifeel like I must help them in
(49:46):
any way I can. And if this is, Imean, is it kind of like
fighting fire with fire? Likeit's that now where, you know,
I'm gonna pick up my fire stickto and I'm gonna go do that.
because if we don't speak up,then who will? If we don't say
something, then who will? Andit's not just us. I mean, it's
(50:09):
not just me. He's not like, Oh,I'm a martyr. And I'm gonna,
like, oh, no, we've been quiet,far too long bar to everyone
with the little blinders on newthat's not working.
Jennifer Wong (50:21):
And I believe that get together. It's
powerful. And I think men knowthat. And that's why rules and
laws have been put against themjust because they're afraid,
right? When we're, we control,they are literally afraid of us.
And we have been brainwashed allthese eons. And we've lost it,
we've lost our power, we've lostthat idea that, Oh, my God, we
(50:42):
are so powerful that they had torule us they had to control us,
because when we gather, and weget together, we are extremely
powerful. I mean, think aboutthe witch trials, 300 years,
women were not allowed toperform the rituals, were not
allowed to walk in a gardenunder the moonlight because God
knows what we could do. Right?
That's how powerful we are. Andthat is how powerful we were
(51:06):
perceived. Otherwise, why wouldyou need to? Why would you need
to control us? What are youafraid? Yes. So I think
Charity Rodriguez (51:15):
over, I don't think that we have lost, I think
they keep trying to squash us. Ithink they keep trying to keep
us down. But we keep comingback. Like you just can't get
rid of us. We are strong. We arepowerful. And we do need to hold
hands and just keep marchingforward together, Afghan women
(51:40):
with strength and power, like wecan do it and we will do it over
and over. I mean, even when youare at your very, very, very,
very lowest. There is thatlittle ounce something keeps you
going something there is somefire in us. That keeps you going
(52:02):
and yeah, they're trying tosquash that. Absolutely. They
can phrase it frame it paint itany way they want to. But yeah,
they're trying to control us,because they're afraid we can't
allow that. We can't allow thatfor ourselves. We can't allow
that for our children, for ourdaughters, for anybody. So
Jennifer Wong (52:20):
the baby, this is a wake up call.
Charity Rodriguez (52:22):
Yeah, well, that was a wake up call. This is
another wake up call. Because wehave had wake up calls
throughout history. And this isjust another one. But we have to
keep marching forward. It's likeno, don't back down. Ladies.
Don't make
Jennifer Wong (52:39):
that dance together. Yes. And I you know,
and I have to admit, you know,growing up, there was a lot of
competition. I felt like Ineeded to compete with women. I
couldn't be friends with women.
It wasn't until I had my firstchild that I realized how I can
even connect with women. I wasit took me a long time. All my
friends were men until I wasabout 3132. So, and I usually
(52:59):
backed away because of thatcompetition. It was like, I
can't even step in that arena. Imean, I'm like a tomboy. I'm a
minimalist, like there was nomakeup, there was no design,
there is no fashion. So I look Icouldn't compete, right. And so
(53:19):
as I've gotten older, and I havechildren, and I've maturing and
I have wisdom, this is thebeauty of being in my fifth
decade. I want to just grabeverybody's all these women's
hands. And, and there's somethat I still go, whoop. But I
just I want to hear your story.
(53:40):
Yes, I understand. Because youare a powerful badass, and it
you just don't know it. And Ithink sometimes that competition
is because we lack thisunderstanding of how empowered
we are. Intrinsically, it's ourbirthright, you know, to be
powerful, but, you know, we'vebeen brainwashed so long, I even
(54:01):
think that whole womencompetition was for men. Right?
Trying to get men's attention,you know, trying to be in the
man's world. I mean, even in incorporate settings, you know,
women would compete for eachother why so they can have a
male appreciated job. Yeah, theCEO, you know, ooh, that usually
(54:24):
is held by men. You got tobehave like man. You know, get
rid of your vagina, get on apenis. Let's go you know, so
women took that to where it'slike, Oh, I'm just gonna be so
empowered. But no, they weren'tfemale in power. They were male
in power they were reallybeautiful and were able to take
on energy of other people and wedid we tried to become like men,
(54:45):
which can't blame us if you wantto succeed in this world. You
got to act like a man Think Likea Man You know, how else are you
going to beat a man? Right? So Iget it, but I think we don't
need to do that anymore. Myopinion. We need to gather
together and we We're gettingtoo.
Charity Rodriguez (55:02):
I think we're getting too big for our britches
and they felt like oh, we gottapush them back. We were getting,
you know, too ahead ofourselves.
Jennifer Wong (55:12):
So let Roe versus Wade just be another wake up
call so that we can look at ourown power and stand together
united. Not like men, but likewomen.
Charity Rodriguez (55:22):
Absolutely.
Nicely said. Alright. That's agood one. We'll wrap on that
one.
Jennifer Wong (55:33):
Yes. Okay, bye.
So love your ladies love yourwomen of your friends.
Compassion for all because themore compassionate we are to men
to they. I know. I know ofplenty that are on our side. So
Charity Rodriguez (55:52):
yes, me too.
I do. I do know plenty there onour side too. So I have new
problems there. Yeah, but bighugs to all the women out there.
Whether you've gone through thisor not. It doesn't matter. You
are loved. You're loved by twopeople right now. Yeah. You're
like there's nobody else. We'retelling you. We love you. You're
(56:16):
awesome. You're powerful. You'restrong. You go girl.
Jennifer Wong (56:22):
Yep, it's not your fault. No, do what you need
to do, honey.
Charity Rodriguez (56:27):
Yep. And there you go. Yay. Thank you for
listening to being effing honestwith your hosts, Jennifer Wong
and charity Rodriguez. Subscribeto our show wherever you listen
to podcasts. And if you have asuggestion, question or topic
you want us to talk about,connect with us at www being
(56:49):
effing honest.com And until nexttime, we hope you're always
being effing honest
Hello, and welcome to Our Podcast being
effing honest, I'm JenniferWong. And I'm Charity Rodrigues.
We invite you into ourconversations about everyday
issues experienced by everydaypeople. We share our stories
with honesty and humor, hopingto bring people together in
community by showing howvulnerability can deepen bonds
(00:25):
when done with kindness and nonjudgment. We know it's tough, so
we'll go ahead and go first.
Charity Rodriguez (00:47):
I'm going to be very effing honest, this
episode almost didn't happen. Atfirst due to fear, uncertainty
and doubt on our part. And thenbecause of gremlins. When the
decision first leaked, we werehesitant to speak to each other,
let alone on the show. Should wesay anything? Initially, we
(01:11):
didn't even discuss our views,experiences and thoughts on
abortion with each other, letalone broach it as a show topic.
After some exhaustive dancingaround the elephant in the room,
we finally broke down and agreedto record a conversation as an
episode, so our audience wouldget our raw responses. Full
(01:32):
disclosure, that firstconversation left us in tears.
Little did we know that due totechnical difficulties, we'd
have the same conversation threetimes each as emotionally
impactful as the first. Ourrecording equipment had silently
(01:54):
failed on the first attempt. Sowe tried again, Jennifer
returning empowered by eachattempt, only to have a similar
experience. We tried a thirdtime, full of equal parts hope
and trepidation, as it startedout, Rocky, but finally, Holy
Toledo, we had a recording. Weare very proud of this episode,
(02:19):
as it demonstrated to us thepower we have as women to
control our narratives, ourbodies and our lives, through
our ability to be vulnerable,compassionate, and transparent.
This is one of those moments inhistory for women to stop being
nice. And start being effinghonest. Okay,
Jennifer Wong (02:44):
we are here we are recording we are working.
Yes, lots of deep breaths. Weare learning technology like
nobody's business.
Charity Rodriguez (02:56):
So true.
Jennifer Wong (02:58):
I've learned more than I ever do.
Charity Rodriguez (03:00):
Yeah, we'll get this figured out sooner or
later, for sure.
Jennifer Wong (03:04):
But it's exciting, because now we're
gonna sound more professionalpeople can hear us better. We're
going to be video at some point.
So this is good.
Charity Rodriguez (03:12):
Yes, excited.
Me excited. I know me too.
Jennifer Wong (03:16):
We've come a long way. And I just want to
celebrate that I loved seeingthat we had 200 downloads. I
know that does, you know,compared to everybody else, it's
not much, but I am excited. It'sgrow.
Charity Rodriguez (03:28):
I know I'm super excited to just like, oh,
I every time a Buzzsprout sendsup that you've hit, you know,
100 then then to find deals likeand they have the confetti and
the party has this like yes,it's a party.
Jennifer Wong (03:46):
It's so fun.
Cool. So thank you everybodythat listens and takes the time
to give us a review orsubscribes. I'm really grateful.
Really cool. And thank youcharity for getting our website
up at WWW dot being effinghonest.com. So we have our blog
there now and we have all of ourpodcast episodes and people can
(04:08):
leave comments. We'd love to
Charity Rodriguez (04:12):
hear yes.
Yeah, pretty excited about that.
Definitely keep checking backbecause we're adding more
content and links and justexciting information. So
Jennifer Wong (04:26):
very exciting. So today's topic, something we have
to let everybody know beingeffing honest, we have tried to
record this episode three times.
And mostly on my end, findingout I don't have enough storage,
finding all kinds of stuff, butwe are learning. So let's see
how this goes today.
Charity Rodriguez (04:47):
While also superstitious me. I'm like,
maybe we weren't supposed totalk about this. This is the
God's saying no, or this is likemy parents their spirits saying
charity You don't go there. Itotally I'm like, okay, maybe I
shouldn't talk about this. Buthere we go. Here we are. We are
(05:09):
brave and bold. We're going todo this.
Jennifer Wong (05:12):
Yes, we are. And maybe it's just that it's such
an intense and huge issue, youknow, overturning of Roe versus
Wade, after 50 years of it beingthe law. It's very odd. Yeah,
it's all of a sudden just rippedout from under us. And spurring
a lot of discussions andconflict and all kinds of stuff.
(05:33):
Plus, you know, we're in the,we're still under the spell of
COVID, and all of that. So it'sjust a small twist time, and we
are going through so much. Soabsolutely are, it seems
interesting that this ishappening at the same time, but
like, one of my spiritual mentorsays, she said, we are in the
(05:57):
compost. You know, this is thetime in our evolution in our
history in the cyclical period,where things are getting broken
down old stuff that wasn'tworking anymore, is coming to
the surface thing. You know,none of this stuff that is going
on, I think is new, it's alwaysbeen vibrating at the foundation
(06:18):
of the fabric of our countryanyway. And with certain
administrations, it's beenopened up and available to come
forth. So it's just coming tothe light. So we'll see I agree,
but
Charity Rodriguez (06:32):
no, I totally agree.
Jennifer Wong (06:35):
And I know that we have discussed this three
times now. So we've talked abouta lot of things with Roe versus
Wade a lot.
Charity Rodriguez (06:43):
We have, I've learned so much. So much. And
it's had my I mean, you got methinking you got me thinking a
lot. I did not realize how Iguess in the dark or with my
(07:05):
blinders, I really walk aroundwith my blinders on a lot. How
about that?
Jennifer Wong (07:10):
So what does that mean?
Charity Rodriguez (07:14):
Well, I don't know. No, no, no. It's, um,
yeah, no, I was okay. I, forthis episode, I really wanted to
make sure that I was concise,that I was focused, that I said
(07:34):
exactly what I meant, and thatit was very clear. So I was
writing out, you know, somethings and I thought it was best
to write it out. Because Iwanted to put that, like, since
we have our blog, I was gonna,like, put, you know, the notes
of what, but I just like, Ipersonally, I believed that I
(08:03):
had no vested interest inabortion, as it did not, would
not ever apply to me. Okay, somy parents didn't discuss such
matters. I was raised thinkingabortion was for wayward girls
or women who got into troublefor, you know, whatever reason
(08:27):
and needed to take care ofsomething discreetly. I also
thought that it was somethingwealthy women did to continue
living their glamorous andflawless lives. And so that,
that was my my thinking. That'swhere I was at, before June 24.
(08:48):
And then, June 24, came and thateverything leading up to June
24, like I was in like, oh mygosh, and that really shattered
my bubble. Because when the newshit that the Supreme Court, you
(09:09):
know, might overturn Roe vs.
Wade. I just thought I wouldcontinue with my blinders on and
I was going to ignore all thenoise and just, you know, go
along and sing my song and like,whatever that has nothing to do
with me, except, except I forgotthat I have a daughter here in
the house with me. I forgot mydaughter's voice. And our
(09:35):
daughter, her friends, theirpeers, you know, social media
kept bringing up the topic. Andthey were, they were a gas you
know, they were aghast andfrustrated. I was But gassed,
(09:58):
and frustrated or I guess maybescared? Because I was like, why
did we have to keep talkingabout this? Like, I didn't want
to talk about it. But I didn'twant to say to her stop talking
about that, like we don't thatdoes has nothing to do with us.
But she kept pulling, pulling,you know, her hesitant mom into
(10:20):
the fray. And I, you know,almost said why do you care so
much, this has nothing to dowith you, and it never will. But
she kind of beat to the punch byreminding me and bringing into
my conscious, I'm not evenreminding you that bringing to
(10:41):
my consciousness because thiswas so like very deep. I was
just really was not. This wasnot in my world sphere, that she
reminded me that this decisionwasn't about abortion. But it
was about privacy. It was aboutautonomy. It was about control.
And by overturning Roe versusWade, the Supreme Court told the
(11:09):
women of America that the momentyou conceive, your body is no
longer your
Jennifer Wong (11:20):
own. Yes.
Charity Rodriguez (11:22):
And when she, you know, framed it like that,
and was telling me all of all ofthat it it you know, now the
state has the right to controlyour body to control your life,
no matter how deeply personal,the emotional, physical cause
(11:49):
that you have to bear, it doesnot matter. Like they don't
care. And that that was tough. Imean, it was really, it was
really tough. And I have to saythat. Although I was cared and
(12:10):
very timid, very hesitant tostep I wasn't stepping with her,
I was stepping behind herbecause she is now leading, you
know, the way she's like, Mom,we have to do this, let's go
like, You got to be involved.
And I felt like, okay, like, Iwanted to be brave, I want it to
(12:34):
be bold, because that's what Itell her to be and try to
encourage her to be and try tomodel for her. And here was a
moment where I was about toshriek back into the safety of
my little, you know, cozyexistence. And she's like, Let's
go they fully I could see she'slooking at my eyes like, of
(12:54):
course, you're gonna do this,you're my Mom, let's go come on.
I was like, like real? Come on,like, dude, let's just sit let's
have a cup of tea. And let'sjust chat about it.
Jennifer Wong (13:11):
And let's keep it in this bubble.
Charity Rodriguez (13:13):
can't exactly do it like that. But I have to
say that I've never felt prouderof my daughter, and so happy
that she was able to pull mefrom my perch and realized that,
like, you know, my husband and Iwere talking about it that this
(13:38):
was her standing up. This washer asserting herself, her
values, her understanding. Andwhat she was communicating to us
was that she realized, and sheassumed that we realize this,
too, that everyone needs ourcompassion and not our judgment.
(14:00):
Thank you. And, you know, thenwe were able to talk about,
yeah, life is messy. And peoplehave the right to determine
their own fates, and decidewhat's best for them and their
families. And that it's no oneelse's business. No one is not
(14:27):
my business. My neighbor doesnot need to be getting into my
business. I don't need to begetting into their business. Not
that like I'd have that hasnothing to do with me if some,
you know, what the woman isgoing through and whatever her
support system is, you know,enduring that the government
doesn't be involved in that and
Jennifer Wong (14:51):
and I love that you brought up your daughter
because they're our daughters,our oldest are really close in
age. And my oh I just felt verysimilar, like what I mean, she
actually woke me up, the minuteshe saw on social media or
wherever she gets her news thatthe draft was out. She told me
(15:12):
before anybody else did, and shewas up in arms woke me up was
just like, I can't. I mean, itwas like, as if it was very
personal to her. And it's thatway for a lot of her friends.
And I really appreciate how youtalked about your bubble. And we
have had that conversation a fewtimes about our bubbles, you
(15:32):
know, like, yeah, we just wantto control what's right here,
because it's a lot. And we don'thave really reference for
everybody else. And I mean, Itotally get that. And, and so
how has it How has your opinionchanged about Roe versus Wade?
(15:54):
Or about just the choice ingeneral?
Charity Rodriguez (15:58):
I don't think it's for me to judge. I don't
think I cannot be if we're goingto espouse religion, I'll
espouse compassion. I'll espouselove, all espouse support, all
espouse, you know, help yourneighbor, you know, when they
(16:21):
need help, I'm not going toespouse you know, righteousness
and the, we need to put ascarlet letter on you and Dan
you to the, you know, depths ofthe hell, like I'm not the
(16:41):
judge, whatever, whoever yourhigher being, your spiritual
being your, whatever you go,that's, that's where you need to
go to, you go there, you makeyour peace, that's between you
and them. And that's, that'syou, that's you, this isn't
anything new, this isn'tsomething that just came about
(17:02):
because of television, or womenwearing jeans on TV that, you
know, like, or whatever, right?
Because people will pull fromall sorts of nonsense. These
things have been happening sincethe beginning of time. And so
it's just people, you know, Idon't know, it's life is messy.
(17:22):
It's not a simple black andwhite, it's not an easy, like,
Oh, I see where you made themistake there. See, you
shouldn't have done that. It'sjust things happened. And
everybody's story is a littlebit different. And just let
people deal with what they haveto deal with. And they just have
(17:45):
the right to some medicalsupport, they need to have the
right to not have neighborsknocking on them, or whatever
they need to be able to go abouttheir business. Not in fear. But
I mean, that we have so muchfear already.
Jennifer Wong (18:11):
I think that has a lot to do with it. You know,
when I when I heard about this,I I wanted to do the research.
But you know, me, I'm not thehuge researcher, mainly because
I don't trust the researchsources. But I do have a good
friend who he was one of theleading humanitarian attorneys
for the US for years, probablyin the 90s and early 2000s. And
(18:35):
so I go to him, I'm like,Alright, you've been in the
trenches. You You've writtenbriefs for the Supreme Court,
you know, the laws lay on me,brother. So I've been asking him
over time, you know, I and Ijust had specific questions. I
mean, it's huge, right? It'shuge. And the funny thing is,
(18:56):
why are women's bodies even upfor law? Like, yeah, in the very
first place? Where are men'sbodies? Where are their laws
regulating men's bodies andchoices? Why is a woman even
considered to put a law againstin the first place? I mean, that
that we need to look at, like,yes, the heck is going on there.
(19:20):
Yeah. And then, you know, andthen they have another male
friend who, you know, it'sgreat. I have these male
friends, right? So this is sucha great opportunity to speak
with them about this. And myother male friend is he's super
intelligent, does does a lot ofresearch, and I know him through
my paying job. And we have verydifferent opinions on this. And
(19:46):
we had a really longconversation, which was really
beautiful, actually, because westill found common ground and I
got to hear his perspective. Andhe got to your mind, which was
brilliant. Like, this is what Iwould hope for everybody is to
be able to not hate each otherbecause you get a different
perspective. But in the end,does a law need to support one
(20:11):
belief system? I have a problemwith that. So because his his
take on it was? Well, I thinkthe issue begins with where you
determine life begins. Becausefor some people, this is murder.
Right? Right, this becomes alegal issue, you're not allowed
to murder. Okay. So he, his histake was, it really depends on
(20:37):
where you see life begins. Thatis a big part of the issue,
right? Because in his, in hisbelief, it was the moment the
egg and the sperm unite andsomething starts to grow. In my
opinion, that's not viable life.
Right. So then it got into thedetails of that. So but I
(20:57):
understood how it could feellike by making this decision,
it's ending life. So I was like,Maybe that is why it's even a
lot. And then my lawyer friend,and I said, well, that becomes a
belief system. Right, which is,in my experience, it's been
(21:17):
religious, depending on yourreligious beliefs when that
happens, because science issaying one thing religion is
saying another thing, right, sowho wins? But this overturning
of Roe versus Wade made mebelieve that who was winning is
the religious sector, becauseit's their belief that's being
supported, not a scientificbelief. Right? Because I think
(21:40):
there have been states that havesaid, you know, over so many
weeks, right, like, you can't doit when it's could live outside
your body. Right? I mean, right.
Right. Right. That's a wholedifferent story. Right. And, and
then I said, Well, isn't theresomething in the Constitution
that says you cannot? You haveto have a separation of church
(22:07):
and state. And then he wentthrough the amends like the
amendments with the Yeah, theamendments with me. And
basically, what it says is, thegovernment cannot keep a
religion from for me, agovernment cannot discriminate
(22:29):
against religions. But as far asthe government supporting a
religion, yes, they can. Yes,they can. So it was just a good
awakening for me, because I keptfighting on that, like, what
about the separation of churchand state? Well, it's not what I
thought it was. Right? Itdoesn't mean that they can't
(22:52):
instill laws or implement laws,based on a religious belief.
There's nowhere in that, thatsays that. So it's all legal as
far as that's concerned. So thatwas really a hard pill to
swallow. So that makes me alittle bit crazy, too, that we
are subject to the laws of onebelief system. We have freedom
(23:17):
and that, and as long as we'reregulated, as long as women, as
bodies are regulated, we do nothave full freedom. We do not get
liberty for all we do notbecause liberty is freedom. And
once laws start inhibiting ourfreedom, we've lost our liberty.
So how is that? You know, how isthat but
Charity Rodriguez (23:38):
it apparently is okay for women to be on the
losing end of the stick. Itdoesn't matter. Because we are
being controlled. But the thingtoo, is that I wanted to make
sure I stated was we need tostep back and keep stepping back
(23:59):
and keep stepping back. Becausebefore we even like, touch on
the abortion, right, there areall of these other issues that
if we had better support systemthat works in place to help
people, women, families, maybethey would lessen the having to
(24:23):
have abortion as a choiceoption. Right, if there was
more, I don't know, equalizedspread of the wealth. If there
was more education foreverybody, you know, sex
education project, because thething that like that a lot of
(24:44):
the times the religious right,don't want to talk about sex.
That's just not something wetalk about. And then things
happen. And children are like, Idon't know what happened. How
did this happen to me like whatthe you know, and then it
compound's the situation rightnow. There's blame on it's
everybody else's fault. It'slike, well, everyone had a part
(25:09):
to play. And just because you'reignorant, and what does it mean,
you know, like, we need to havemore resources, we need to have
more support, we need to havemore understanding for everyone.
And then so that, you know, whenyou do get to that option, it's
(25:33):
a Yeah, okay. Wow, you know,you've eliminated all these
other nonsense things, becausemaybe, maybe they would happily
go. Yeah, I'm gonna have thatbaby. It's okay. Because I'm
financially secure. I haveeducation, I have medical
support, you know, for my baby,for my family, I have enough
(25:56):
leave to you know, be but maybeand, and then there's support
from your community, right,because a lot of women have come
forward. And given theirpersonal stories of what has
happened, and, you know, andwhen it's happened and what
happened. And they didn't stepforward before because they were
(26:21):
going to be shunned. Right,because now everyone that that
criticism that judgment. And itcould be, it could have been
like, well, who the heck careswhat the reason was, doesn't
mean it matter what the reasonwas, doesn't matter if it was a
(26:42):
one night stand doesn't matterif it was some medical reason,
like just the fact that they hadto go through this. And they had
to go through it in quiet, like,and, you know, keep it out to
themselves. Like, you know,that's, that's trauma, that's
emotional, mental health. Theywere talking about all of that.
(27:02):
And but it doesn't matter. Itdoesn't matter what your mental
health state of being was beforeor after, doesn't matter what
your emotional state before orafter, doesn't matter. Your
economic doesn't matter. Theyjust don't care. And it's just
like, No, we're just going toimprison you. We're going to
take away your rights. And we'regoing to, you know, and
(27:22):
everybody around you, it's backto the Middle Ages, I quit some
of this stuff. And it's likethat we're how, how and why. So
my friend
Jennifer Wong (27:32):
said, If we went back to the Dark Ages, women had
more rights. That's the MiddleAges where everything gets
screwed up. Yeah, I agree. Ithink community and I think
knowledge, I think getting theshame, you know, shame loves
silence. It just builds andgrows, you know, yeah, shame
loves when we're quiet about it.
So. And then in that quietness,we become fearful. And look how
(27:55):
easy it is to control. You know,there's fear, the answer is
always control. Well, yeah, theunconscious answer is control.
So
Charity Rodriguez (28:07):
it's all of these things that women have to
go through all of these things,and then you're still expected
to run your household. I mean, Idon't care what people say. The
woman is still expected tomollify task and swallow their
feelings, swallow their emotion,swallow their trauma, swallow
(28:29):
whatever, because for thebetterment of their child for
the betterment of their partner,for the betterment of their
families, the greater, you know,families and a woman like okay,
yeah, you're a woman, you canyou can cry, but you can only
cry for so much. And then yougotta get back to it. But it's
just, I don't know, I know.
Jennifer Wong (28:49):
And I talked, I had a friend remind me,
Jennifer, you're always free.
You're always free. And it'sjust a matter, I guess, of being
innovative and having boundariesand learning about our own
strength. Because, yeah, the lawsays that. But there's always
going to be a way hopefully. Idon't know. It's very, very
(29:12):
tricky. And I was thinking,Well, you know, one argument was
men should be held accountable.
It's not like a woman can justreproduce on her own without
amoebas. But I don't know if Ireally want that either. I don't
want a man to all of a suddenhave a say in this over my body.
(29:33):
You know, I don't I don't thinkthat's appropriate, either. I
think there should becommunication, there should
definitely see thatconversation. There should be an
agreement, you know, and thatgoes with the support, right? If
you're learning how tocommunicate and standing your
truth and really identify what'sgoing on. It may create a
different conversation where theresults are different, but
(29:57):
that's not where we're at. andthat the thought of a man just
being, you know, how are you?
How is a man going to becomeaccountable for my body? Again,
it's already why we're in thisproblem because men have felt
entitled to have control overour bodies. So I just
Charity Rodriguez (30:17):
want to control your body. But okay, one
thing you said that you werefree. And then you said that we
should have discussions,communication, you know, with
the man and I. Okay, I don'tknow how to express this, like,
(30:43):
let me formulate this thought.
We have a men, a man and a womancan agree that like, we're gonna
get dizzy. And you know, then ifthe man decides he does not want
to stay, for the after, for theaftermath, for the raising the
child for the caring for thechild for the emotional,
(31:04):
financial and physicalinvestment of the child, the guy
can just walk away, and I don'tcare. I'm not talking about
well, they still have to pay,you know, something, there are
so many women that are stillgoing after guys trying to get
them to pay. There are so manyguys that have gone left the
country changed their names liketotally, so that they're not
(31:26):
involved with that woman. Andthen they could care less about
the kids. Like they're not eventhere's no even after thought
of. But what about how this isgonna affect the children? No,
like, what about that? Like,they're talking about the
children right now. But then howare we holding accountable the
men that just bail, juststraight up bail. And this is
(31:52):
across all economic. You know,the economic spectrum. You have
men that have money, they canafford all these babies left and
right. But even then they'rejust like, You know what, it's
just too much work with thisbaby. The first one like,
Whatever, I'm gonna go startover new over here, you know,
(32:13):
with this new Suzie Q, and I'mgonna be the best father there
is with this unit. But you stillhave two kids over here. Like,
what about them, but it doesn'tmatter. They can just erase that
they can just, you know, Fatherthat says that stays Awesome.
Great. I'm not talking aboutyou. So I'm definitely we're
(32:36):
not. I'm not saying all men areevil that No, I'm not. But we
have far more men that arewilling and interested in you
know, doing everything to createthat baby, but then walk, they
can walk their life is notaffected. Maybe, you know, they
(32:58):
can keep on working, choose topay not to pay. It'll just keep
on compounding sometimes, Idon't know, I've heard that
courts can go after you. Right,and like dock, your pay? And,
you know, whatever. I don't knowhow often that happens. Yeah, if
they can find you, right, like,you know, gets caught up in
court, you're having a get offyour job to go to court to get
(33:23):
something written. So they'relike, I need this man to pay for
the baby. Right? You know, I'mworking three jobs, and I can't
afford to take time off to cometo this court because this
person won't hold up to theirend of the Union.
Jennifer Wong (33:42):
So obviously, courts have not been able to
even hold them accountable. Andthat
Charity Rodriguez (33:47):
it just clear that they're interested, like,
why aren't you go aftersomething like that.
Jennifer Wong (33:52):
And then the law basically says, we care all
about this baby. And then onceit's born, we don't give a shit
anymore. Boom. So who's going toemotionally raise it? Who's
gonna, you know, not onlyfinancially, I mean, there's
this huge emotional thing. Theemotions that are what about
kids that are born as a resultof rape or incest? Yeah, how's
(34:13):
that gonna affect them?
Charity Rodriguez (34:15):
They don't care. They have said that they
do not care. There is no supportto that mother. Child. You know,
there's nothing there. Theyweren't talking about if, you
know, maybe what was it thatthey there was something that on
lady said, like, well, maybethis will help her step up. And,
(34:35):
and, you know, see what a greatmother and what a great
opportunity this is for her todevelop into a fine young woman
and I was like, This is a youngkid that something horrible has
happened. I can't even deal withthe trauma of the rape because
now we're dealing with thetrauma of you're not going to
allow her to have an abortionand then the There's no support
(35:01):
for her. If she has the baby,because of the way our system is
set up, we shun people, we judgepeople, we criticize people.
We're not asking like, oh, well,what happened? What was your
story? How did you end up inthis situation? And maybe I'll
have a little more compassionfor you. Maybe I'll know. It's
just like, Ooh, a, Where werethose parents? Letting that girl
(35:22):
you know, be caught up in asituation like that? Then what
was she doing? What was shewearing? Oh, she was dressed
promiscuously. I mean, it's justall sorts of nonsense, versus
let's get them some medicalhelp. Let's get them some
financial and mental healthhelp. Let's make sure that
(35:45):
there's a process in place forthis child to continue with
their education, you know, tocontinue to be working towards
some kind of a future that theywill prosper. But we're quick to
cut the cord and just like,tennis Sucks to be you and move
on.
Jennifer Wong (36:06):
I know. And then my daughter brought to my
attention that certain statesare going to prosecute a woman
for going across state lines andhaving an abortion. And then
when she gets back then she is awoman who's had one while
resident in that state, andshe's gonna go to jail. So I
just think that is just in sane.
It's in sanity. I can tell youthat. So that reduces a woman's
(36:30):
freedom 100% while stilloffering no support for this
baby that may go into thesystem.
Charity Rodriguez (36:41):
Yeah. Yeah.
Great. Yeah. Isn't that it forlike, put the baby up for
adoption? No, but the woman isbeing prosecuted? Yep. Right.
And adoptions. Like the
Jennifer Wong (36:53):
best case scenario? My sister was in
children's protective servicesin the foster care system is a
complete and utter mess. Yeah.
Thank you. I've heard that Ooh,don't have an abortion, though.
That's a great high forchildren. That's wonderful. Good
job.
Charity Rodriguez (37:10):
Like, can we put some more resources into the
abortion and that system? Right?
Can we give them more money?
Give them more resources, givethose children better? No, no,
of course not. We're not goingto do that.
Jennifer Wong (37:22):
Like, we're just going to restrict women's
rights. It's way cheaper.
Charity Rodriguez (37:25):
Yeah, we're going up. It's the woman's
fault. Always the woman's fault.
For
Jennifer Wong (37:30):
a shame around it, I think is a big piece. It's
a huge piece. And if we listento each other stories, I I have
heard maybe five or six womenthat I know that have that have
had them. And not one person didit lightly. Not one person felt
good about it. You know, therewas so much emotional pain that
(37:57):
goes into it. You know? Yeah, noone just does it. Oh, no
problem. I can't say that,because I'm not every woman. But
in my experience, I haven't meta woman that was like, I don't I
didn't have any other choice.
Dun dun. And I haven't metanybody like that yet. And to be
honest, I mean, have I? Yes, Ihave had one, I have had one.
(38:20):
And it was actually upon havingone. And sharing it with my
close friends that I could trustwas when I heard other people's
stories. And that's when thatcompassion piece came in. And it
was almost like, every time wetalked about it, we kind of
healed each other a little bit.
And for me, I ended up doing aritual around it, because it
(38:44):
really affected me deeply. Youknow, and even though I was
busy, and I was raising a littleone at the time, and I was
super, super busy, it was reallyaffecting me. It really did
affect me. And for seven years,I think I held on to that. Maybe
like two or three close friendsknew about it. One of them knew
(39:05):
because I asked her to be therefor me, because the father
didn't want to be there anddidn't want anything to do with
it. Because he was in anagreement with it.
Charity Rodriguez (39:17):
So he didn't want anything to do with the
baby or the process that theprocedure you were going to
Jennifer Wong (39:23):
he wanted to go and didn't want to support my
process of not having anotherone. And you know, my reasons
were because I was super old.
And my body couldn't handle it.
I had a six month old and atthat time, I almost it was a
very hard pregnancy. And I myblood platelets got really low
(39:46):
and they were really, reallyworried that I was going to
bleed out. And they hadsuggested you probably shouldn't
have any more babies. Right?
That was medical advice. Andthen this happened and I didn't
know what to do. And so I calledupon On a friend that was super
solid that I could trust and shewent with me, she took the day
off of her work helped my sixmonth old while I could have
(40:07):
this horrible process done. Andeven the male doctor that did
the process shamed me, youbetter take care of yourself,
you better use prophylactics andI would suggest that your
husband get a vasectomy. And ifhe doesn't, I don't ever want to
see him in here again. It waslike, oh my god, I felt
terrible. Yeah, I remember himsaying that, and just all the
(40:29):
energy in my body just like,Whoa, I felt like a total piece
of shit. You know, it wasterrible. And it was just
interesting. It ended up I endedup having a huge spiritual
experience. Because at the timeI was in a, in a 12 step
program, not alcoholicsanonymous, but another one. And
(40:51):
I had a sponsor, who was workingwith me on the 12 steps. And we
were I think we were on thefirst or second step, which is
all about basicallyunderstanding what my higher
power was, and then giving mygiving everything up to it, you
know, like, I can only do somuch. But there's so much out of
(41:11):
my control. And my sponsor atthe time, who is now past, she
was really big on working withme on self love. So self love
was a big piece. And I needlessto say, I didn't love myself at
all. During this process. I feltterrible. I took on all the
guilt and shame that I had heardother people, judge others who
(41:36):
have had abortions, and I tookthat on, and maybe I believed it
a little bit to be so hard onmyself. You know, maybe I had
those judgments against womenthat had an abortion. So the
spiritual part that happened waswhile I was lying on the table,
and the procedure was going on.
(41:58):
I was praying, you know, forforgiveness. I mean, the whole
time I was just praying, pleaseforgive me. And suddenly, with
my eyes closed, there was thisbeautiful purple light. And all
I heard was, You are loved. Youare loved, you are loved, you
are loved. And I thought, well,that definitely wasn't coming
(42:20):
from me. Because at the time Iwas thinking, I am such a
horrible person. I am not worthyof love. I am just so sorry. I
was groveling to my higherpower. Just please forgive me,
please forgive me. And all Iheard moving on was You are
loved you are not to be loved.
And I cried. And I cried. Andthe doctor laughed, you know,
clean yourself up, you're done.
(42:42):
And when I got out, I found myfriend holding my six month old
and I just cried and cried andcried. And but that stayed with
me for a really long time. Thatwhere was that coming from? I am
loved. Because even when I wasgetting in the car, I was like,
No, I'm not. I'm such a horribleperson. This is the worst
(43:03):
possible thing, you know,because my head is my worst
enemy too. But then I thinkseven years later, I'm I have
another friend who does rituals.
And when I was going through mydivorce, all the red flags were
there. I went to go see herbecause she's a she's also a
counselor therapist. She's acoach, and but she also brings
(43:24):
into her work a lot of ritualsthat she learned from her mentor
from West Africa. And so as wewere working through this deep
grief and sadness and guilt thatI had over ending a marriage and
what it was gonna do to mychildren, we just got brought
up. And it's been seven years.
(43:46):
And she said, I think we need todo a ritual. And we did and it
was really beautiful. And Ifinally felt like I got to
really speak to the unborn soul.
And there was a healing, therewas a definite healing because
since then, I can talk aboutthis, and I don't cry. That was
(44:07):
back in 2019. It was three yearsago, I was never able to even
talk about that moment of nothaving that baby without
completely crying. And I stillfeel this deep sense of sadness.
But there was a lot of awarenessthat came through that ritual
too. And I know spirituality isvery unique to the individual.
(44:31):
And there's a lot of naysayers,but I heard things I saw things
in my meditations during thatritual that felt real and true.
And there's a lot I learnedabout myself in that. In that
process, you know about who I amand my strength and the ability
to love myself my ability toconnect with power greater than
(44:53):
myself. My ability to understandand really embody my belief
system. How to feel love to feelforgiveness to feel lessons
learned. You know, one of thethings that my I guess, the
woman that helped walked methrough that ritual had said, in
(45:16):
her teachers tradition, if asoul doesn't get born due to
abortion or miscarriage, itwasn't meant to be, you know,
maybe it knew that when it camein, and it was just to have that
experience, and to see how itaffected you and to see your own
belief systems and just, youknow, who knows, you know,
(45:37):
there's. So for me, it wasreally to learn about self love
and self forgiveness, you know,but here again, it's about
having compassion, it's aboutlistening to a woman's story
here in the whole, giving awoman the opportunity to process
it. I mean, I held in so muchthat I don't even think I knew
(45:59):
my full process of that event.
And I'm not saying everybody'sgonna feel like this. And this
is everybody's story by anymeans. But you had talked about
compassion and listening toother women. And I think that is
incredibly vital. And it's lifechanging, you know. And so now,
(46:26):
when I hear other women thatcannot have one, or they're
going to jail, all I want to dois grab a fan and go make it
happen. Yeah, I want to helpthem because I know how hard
that decision is to make.
Charity Rodriguez (46:41):
Well, and you've heard me say before, how
I feel that the government andjust people are trying to divide
and conquer, you know, us, ofpeople. And I feel like that's
another instance where womenneed to come together, like we
(47:01):
need to support each other, weshould not allow ourselves to be
broken down into thesefractions. Because at the end of
the day, we're women, we are allwomen, and we, it could happen
to you, it may happen to you, itdid happen to you, it will
happen, or it will affect you.
And or your daughter, niece,sister, like what ever and we
(47:29):
need to support each other, wehave so much judgment and
criticism already going upagainst us, like we don't need
to be against each other. Likethat's the last thing we need to
do is just to be like, Yeah, I'mgonna throw some eggs and
(47:49):
tomatoes at you, too, when youare down at your lowest. Because
that will show you that willteach you a lesson. Yeah, make
you see that, you know, this iswhat happens when you do
something like that, or getyourself in that situation or do
something, right. It's justlike, No, people. Everyone is
interpreting, you know,religion, that the Bible and
(48:15):
their understanding just I justdon't think that's exactly what
was meant. Just right. Justdon't think that that's what was
meant. And I do not profess tohave a direct link to God, I
have no idea. I am always wearyof people that think that they
(48:37):
have a direct link to God thatthey have gotten us on a, you
know, speed dial, and it's like,God told me, this is what I'm
like, oh, no, I back away fromthat. I like, yes. I believe
there is a God, I believe thereis a higher being, I have no
problem with that. And, but atthe end of the day, it's you
(49:01):
have to make your choices, makebest choices, you know, for
yourself or your family, soforth and so on. And you go from
there. Yeah, you go from there.
You can't we need to supporteach other. And yeah, I'm with
(49:23):
you. Like, yeah, let's get aband that's doing and I would
never have thought to do thatbefore like a charity shop. I
would just be like, again, withmy little blinders on. I'm like,
No, but I feel desperate. Now. Ifeel like I must help them in
(49:46):
any way I can. And if this is, Imean, is it kind of like
fighting fire with fire? Likeit's that now where, you know,
I'm gonna pick up my fire stickto and I'm gonna go do that.
because if we don't speak up,then who will? If we don't say
something, then who will? Andit's not just us. I mean, it's
(50:09):
not just me. He's not like, Oh,I'm a martyr. And I'm gonna,
like, oh, no, we've been quiet,far too long bar to everyone
with the little blinders on newthat's not working.
Jennifer Wong (50:21):
And I believe that get together. It's
powerful. And I think men knowthat. And that's why rules and
laws have been put against themjust because they're afraid,
right? When we're, we control,they are literally afraid of us.
And we have been brainwashed allthese eons. And we've lost it,
we've lost our power, we've lostthat idea that, Oh, my God, we
(50:42):
are so powerful that they had torule us they had to control us,
because when we gather, and weget together, we are extremely
powerful. I mean, think aboutthe witch trials, 300 years,
women were not allowed toperform the rituals, were not
allowed to walk in a gardenunder the moonlight because God
knows what we could do. Right?
That's how powerful we are. Andthat is how powerful we were
(51:06):
perceived. Otherwise, why wouldyou need to? Why would you need
to control us? What are youafraid? Yes. So I think
Charity Rodriguez (51:15):
over, I don't think that we have lost, I think
they keep trying to squash us. Ithink they keep trying to keep
us down. But we keep comingback. Like you just can't get
rid of us. We are strong. We arepowerful. And we do need to hold
hands and just keep marchingforward together, Afghan women
(51:40):
with strength and power, like wecan do it and we will do it over
and over. I mean, even when youare at your very, very, very,
very lowest. There is thatlittle ounce something keeps you
going something there is somefire in us. That keeps you going
(52:02):
and yeah, they're trying tosquash that. Absolutely. They
can phrase it frame it paint itany way they want to. But yeah,
they're trying to control us,because they're afraid we can't
allow that. We can't allow thatfor ourselves. We can't allow
that for our children, for ourdaughters, for anybody. So
Jennifer Wong (52:20):
the baby, this is a wake up call.
Charity Rodriguez (52:22):
Yeah, well, that was a wake up call. This is
another wake up call. Because wehave had wake up calls
throughout history. And this isjust another one. But we have to
keep marching forward. It's likeno, don't back down. Ladies.
Don't make
Jennifer Wong (52:39):
that dance together. Yes. And I you know,
and I have to admit, you know,growing up, there was a lot of
competition. I felt like Ineeded to compete with women. I
couldn't be friends with women.
It wasn't until I had my firstchild that I realized how I can
even connect with women. I wasit took me a long time. All my
friends were men until I wasabout 3132. So, and I usually
(52:59):
backed away because of thatcompetition. It was like, I
can't even step in that arena. Imean, I'm like a tomboy. I'm a
minimalist, like there was nomakeup, there was no design,
there is no fashion. So I look Icouldn't compete, right. And so
(53:19):
as I've gotten older, and I havechildren, and I've maturing and
I have wisdom, this is thebeauty of being in my fifth
decade. I want to just grabeverybody's all these women's
hands. And, and there's somethat I still go, whoop. But I
just I want to hear your story.
(53:40):
Yes, I understand. Because youare a powerful badass, and it
you just don't know it. And Ithink sometimes that competition
is because we lack thisunderstanding of how empowered
we are. Intrinsically, it's ourbirthright, you know, to be
powerful, but, you know, we'vebeen brainwashed so long, I even
(54:01):
think that whole womencompetition was for men. Right?
Trying to get men's attention,you know, trying to be in the
man's world. I mean, even in incorporate settings, you know,
women would compete for eachother why so they can have a
male appreciated job. Yeah, theCEO, you know, ooh, that usually
(54:24):
is held by men. You got tobehave like man. You know, get
rid of your vagina, get on apenis. Let's go you know, so
women took that to where it'slike, Oh, I'm just gonna be so
empowered. But no, they weren'tfemale in power. They were male
in power they were reallybeautiful and were able to take
on energy of other people and wedid we tried to become like men,
(54:45):
which can't blame us if you wantto succeed in this world. You
got to act like a man Think Likea Man You know, how else are you
going to beat a man? Right? So Iget it, but I think we don't
need to do that anymore. Myopinion. We need to gather
together and we We're gettingtoo.
Charity Rodriguez (55:02):
I think we're getting too big for our britches
and they felt like oh, we gottapush them back. We were getting,
you know, too ahead ofourselves.
Jennifer Wong (55:12):
So let Roe versus Wade just be another wake up
call so that we can look at ourown power and stand together
united. Not like men, but likewomen.
Charity Rodriguez (55:22):
Absolutely.
Nicely said. Alright. That's agood one. We'll wrap on that
one.
Jennifer Wong (55:33):
Yes. Okay, bye.
So love your ladies love yourwomen of your friends.
Compassion for all because themore compassionate we are to men
to they. I know. I know ofplenty that are on our side. So
Charity Rodriguez (55:52):
yes, me too.
I do. I do know plenty there onour side too. So I have new
problems there. Yeah, but bighugs to all the women out there.
Whether you've gone through thisor not. It doesn't matter. You
are loved. You're loved by twopeople right now. Yeah. You're
like there's nobody else. We'retelling you. We love you. You're
(56:16):
awesome. You're powerful. You'restrong. You go girl.
Jennifer Wong (56:22):
Yep, it's not your fault. No, do what you need
to do, honey.
Charity Rodriguez (56:27):
Yep. And there you go. Yay. Thank you for
listening to being effing honestwith your hosts, Jennifer Wong
and charity Rodriguez. Subscribeto our show wherever you listen
to podcasts. And if you have asuggestion, question or topic
you want us to talk about,connect with us at www being
(56:49):
effing honest.com And until nexttime, we hope you're always
being effing honest
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