March 11, 2025 • 37 mins
Shadow work facilitates profound personal transformation by helping us integrate hidden aspects of ourselves for greater wholeness and authentic living. We explore how this practice enables real-time processing of emotions and helps us stop projecting our fears onto others.
• Shadow work provides tools for detaching from chaos without abandoning care
• When we observe rather than react, we break cycles of storytelling and catastrophizing
• Facing our shadows creates immunity to manipulation and fear-mongering
• Integration helps us discover hidden gifts and talents we've suppressed
• The process fosters communication between shadow and light aspects, creating internal harmony
• Shadow work transforms relationships by allowing true vulnerability and presence
• The benefits include greater self-love and calmer, more grounded daily living
• This practice isn't about transcending human experience but embracing it fully
• Different approaches (chakra-based, shamanic) can complement each other on this journey
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Granddaughter Crow (00:00):
Welcome to Belief, being and Beyond with
your host, granddaughter Crow.
Hey everybody, welcome to yetanother episode of Belief, being
and Beyond Shadow Talk series.
I do we do really hope that youhave been enjoying this series.
This is going to be wrapping upthis section of the series
(00:25):
where we do end with a live.
Check outwwwgranddaughtercrowcom for more
information on the live event.
I hope you guys can make it.
Otherwise, we have with usStephanie Michelle, the author
of Chakras and your Shadow.
Stephanie Michelle, the authorof Chakras and your Shadow, and
(00:45):
Jeffrey Gray, the author of allof the Ingresses and Portals and
Journey work from my bookShamanism and your Shadow.
This is Shadow Talk, and so atfirst we talked about, like,
what is our personal experience,to kind of give you guys a
(01:12):
little bit of a oh behind thecurtain.
And then oh, expanded it Likeit doesn't only come from this
lifetime.
We went into history and DNAand even just being a female.
And and then last time, oh gosh, last time, what did we go into
?
Just a beautiful talk about um.
What did we go into?
Jeffrey Gray (01:24):
Just a beautiful talk about.
What were we talking?
Stefani Michelle (01:29):
about last time Because you both erased it
from your memory.
You know I'm not going to beable to find it.
I rely on telepathy to findthings.
Jeffrey Gray (01:40):
I remember saying at the end of it that we did a
really good job.
Stefani Michelle (01:46):
Right, right, right.
Jeffrey Gray (01:46):
I guess that was just a bow on it and just let it
go Right.
Stefani Michelle (01:51):
I think it was about the books, the process of
doing the shadow work.
I got it.
Granddaughter Crow (01:58):
I got it, and so let me just, I'm just
going to go into it, you guys.
Jeffrey Gray (02:01):
Okay.
Granddaughter Crow (02:02):
Okay, yeah, and then last time we talked
about why did we approach shadowwork from a chakra point of
view and or shamanism, and itwas just so beautiful because we
approached it so that peoplecan embody it and feel it, and
it really kind of came out thatyou can't see your shadow
(02:23):
because it's hidden in theshadow.
So you got to sense it, and sowe thought that we would go
ahead and top this off with alittle bit more of answering the
question to you why would youdo shadow work?
What are the benefits, or someof the benefits, of doing shadow
(02:48):
work?
So we, once again, are going todo round robin.
Who would like to kick us off?
Stephanie, are you ready?
You want to kick us off?
Or Jeff, do you?
Stefani Michelle (02:56):
have something .
Yeah, let's go for it, okay,okay.
So I think that what we'redoing right now is perfect
timing in regards to the entireseries, because for me and I
know a lot of people that I'vebeen talking to February and
(03:18):
March of 2025 has been extremelyintense.
This year came in to strip awayyour fears, to strip away old
behaviors and patterns, and itis making a scene, let's say,
and things are changing.
Things are extremely heavy andlight all at the same time, and
(03:44):
so, for me, if I hadn't doneshadow work, if I hadn't been on
this journey, this moment,especially the last two weeks,
would have very differentresults than me being able to
sit here and talk to you rightnow, able to sit here and talk
(04:08):
to you right now.
There was a moment where I hadto call my 79-year-old mother
and ask her like, am I going tomake it?
And she said remember yourtools.
Remember your tools.
And she said you.
She reminded me, and one of thethings that I talk about is
your support system.
You need to have a supportsystem, and so, for me, I do
have my mother and other people,but having a support system is
(04:33):
not taboo, it's not bad.
Doing shadow work actuallyenables you, it helps you, ask
for help.
I couldn't ask for help before.
I couldn't call my mother, Iwould just crawl under a rock
and, you know, turn everythingoff.
But with what has beenhappening the last two weeks in
my personal life, I have so manymore tools where I can, you
(05:01):
know, sit in the experience and,oh, I can't believe I'm going
to say this word and detach fromit.
And the reason why that is sucha a intense word for me is
because for 45 years that hasbeen the thing my mother has
asked me to do.
Please detach, please detach.
(05:22):
And I thought that meant don'tcare.
Oh, I did not understand untilI did the shadow work, that that
meant don't put yourself in theeye of the storm, don't put
yourself in the chaos, don'ttake on everyone else's pain, be
(05:43):
an observer, zoom out.
There was a part in my healingjourney where I spoke loudly to
God and I've shared this story amillion times and he basically
said nothing is real and I'mjust using the general term that
we all understand.
But that was the conversation.
Nothing is real.
And I went through.
What about my kids?
(06:04):
What about you?
Know all these big, largeexperiences, and I remember when
it was a 45 minute conversationand at the end of it I remember
saying to him is my knee real?
And he said, no, your knee isnot real.
Nothing is real, it's okay.
And and in the moment of havingthat conversation and again,
this was during the shadow work,this was during the healing it
(06:27):
was a very scary, scary moment,but the effect of that moment
has had on me, has beenliberating, has been freeing,
has enabled me to detach, hasenabled me to go through the
moments that I've had these lasttwo weeks up until two hours
ago, and see it from just acycle, just an evolution of time
(06:53):
, just a transformation, and notattach myself to any specific
moment that is happening,because that attachment is what,
for me, causes extreme frenzy,extreme chaos, extreme need to
control.
And I was able to release allthat by doing the shadow work
(07:14):
and continuing to do the shadowwork.
Granddaughter Crow (07:17):
I absolutely love that because you
know moreover to Stephanie'spoint, because you know,
moreover to Stephanie's pointyou know, as sensitive people,
as conscious people, we thinkthat, oh, because I sense
something, because I feelsomething, I need to go there
and do this and do that.
And so we always like attachimmediately, as though it is
(07:47):
that is what we are called to do, that's the call to action.
But as you grow spiritually,you realize, becoming the
observer, and you know, you care, but you're not like it is not
moving you, you are observing itand there's a, there's a
liberation.
And in doing the shadow work, Iabsolutely agree with that
Because for me, another one ofthe benefits of the shadow is
(08:13):
kind of like what Stephanie wastalking about these little
voices in your head.
That's like I should do this, Ishould do that, I'm supposed to,
and a lot of these narratives,or these sounds in my mind, are
based on an old story ofsurvival and or persecution, so
that I do or do not get introuble, do or do not get in
(08:34):
trouble, exactly.
Sometimes I chose to you know,actually, but at the end of the
day, the ability to also stepback and observe those internal
narratives and go, wait a second.
That doesn't equal.
That's old.
That doesn't equal where I amright now, and let me show up
and be present right now.
(08:56):
Check what you have to sayabout the benefits of doing
shadow work well, I couldn'tagree more with you.
Jeffrey Gray (09:03):
Know what both of you you have have said with it.
It's, you know, thatself-reflection really needs to
be.
You don't need to be sojudgmental with your when you're
doing your self-reflection, youknow, because everybody,
everybody has these shadows.
You know big shadows, darkshadows, huge shadows.
(09:24):
Some, you know big shadows,dark shadows, huge shadows.
Some people, you know somefolks carry with them and, yeah,
the detachment is, I think it'sthe ability to look at it with
clarity of an observer.
You know, that's true.
Stefani Michelle (09:43):
Yeah.
Jeffrey Gray (09:44):
And I think it's really important that we're
doing we doing the work.
I agree with the timing of thiswhole thing.
There's a reason why here, whywe're here.
You know the reason why peopleare writing the books and why
people are reading the books.
And you know listening topodcasts and exploring, you know
exploring the shadows ofoneself.
(10:06):
You carry this stuff in yourheart.
You know you got this heartmedicine.
What is it?
Six feet.
You know you've got that energy, the electricity.
We said in one of the first Iremember that this is going to
be an electric conversation soyou've got that and, uh, you
(10:31):
share that with you.
Share that with whatever isnear you.
You know dogs cue on that withus.
That's one of the reasons whythey're man's best friend, um,
because they're, you know, theycue, cue on that, um, so this
affects.
You know, not everybody's goingto do shadow work, right, but I
think, with those of us that areaware, self-aware and willing
(10:57):
to do that work, that hard work,it's going to combat, uh, the
shared shadow consciousness thatwe deal with.
That is so easy, you know.
I mean, we're so easilymanipulated through these things
.
You know, oh, I'm scared ofthis.
Well, let's make a big deal outof what you're scared of and
(11:19):
you'll vote for us.
You know this, this type of ofof mentality that's going on
right now, and I think it's good, good, noble work for us to be
doing and for anybody that youknow that picks it up, and it's
like I that is such a huge partof it also is that zooming out
(11:41):
is not just for your personalsituations, it is for global
situations.
Stefani Michelle (11:56):
You can be able to see where the
manipulation is coming from andyou know what the truth is
behind the screen of it all.
I mean, it really has enabledme not to fall victim to the
fear mongering on either side ofthe spectrum on anything that
(12:17):
anyone says.
I am able to not take things atface value, at just.
You know the sensationalism ofit and that is part of shadow
work, absolutely.
I'm glad that you brought thatup.
I think that's important.
Granddaughter Crow (12:32):
Me too, and you know so.
One is that you're able to hearand see more clearly, not only
with your internal voice, butwith the global voice.
Be aware.
So I don't cast my shadow, myfears, my anxiety, my narrative
onto other people, especiallythose that I love the most, you
(13:06):
know, and then we're all in afrenzy.
So doing shadow work helps youto see and hear and become aware
.
I would also like to add onemore thing Again the flip side
of all of that, not only thedarkness and the fear and the
slowing down.
It also helps us to observe ourgifts and treasures and talents
(13:32):
, not only in ourself, but inothers, and so what I mean by
that is sometimes you get raisedin a family that does not like
people who write with their lefthand right, and so you might be
a left-handed artist, butbecause you are raised in a
situation where you are writingwith your left hand and they
don't want you to, you're forcedto learn how to write with your
(13:55):
right hand, and now you'reaccepted.
So, in a very weird way, youwriting with your left hand is a
part of your shadow.
Now it's the hidden gift thatyou have, and so sometimes
mining and doing this workbrings out.
I didn't.
I do feel more comfortablewriting with my left hand.
In fact, it's not just the ABCsand one, two, threes and
(14:18):
whatever language you speak, itis these glorious pictures that
come through when I'm able to dosomething that I wasn't because
I had to hide it because of thesocial construct of my
childhood.
So there's also the ability tosee your shadow and your fear,
not cast it onto others.
(14:39):
See your gifts and your talentsand also spot other people's
gifts and their talents.
I would say that's another hugebenefit.
It is yeah go ahead.
Stefani Michelle (14:52):
I was just going to say it absolutely is.
It's very empowering, it's veryclarifying and it is, in a way,
you get to process in real timeeverything around you, and that
I think that's just sobeautiful.
Sorry to cut you off, but yeah,I just couldn't agree more with
everything that you're saying.
Granddaughter Crow (15:12):
It's like oh, and that kind of this
process in real time is what Ialso want to kind of clarify or
talk a little bit more, delveinto.
Because when you are able toobserve, when you are able to
see more clearly, because yousee yourself more clearly, when
(15:34):
both the fears as well as thegifts, when both the fears as
well as the gifts, and then youare able to process in real time
, aka be present in thesituation, appreciate all of the
beauty and the hardship andeverything.
The processing in real timehelps me on a day-to-day
(15:56):
activities.
So doing shadow work doesaffect my day-to-day life and
how I will stop myself and gowait.
That was an old version of me.
Let me be in real time, wait.
That was this.
Let me be present now.
And the more that I am present,the more that I stop casting my
(16:18):
shadow and fears andinsecurities onto others like,
oh my God, they must think thatthis or that it's just like they
didn't even say anything.
In fact, they're probably noteven thinking about you.
What are you doing?
You know it changes.
It changes the way that Iapproach all of my activities,
not only approach people, butapproach just household chores
(16:41):
and my job being present becauseof that.
So what daily benefits wouldyou guys see that shadow work
does?
Jeffrey Gray (16:52):
You guys yeah, I do, it's, you know, listening,
listening to the conversation,it's calming, It'll calm, it'll
calm shit down.
You know, because all of asudden you're that, you know.
I mean, it's just natural, it'sjust it's, it's in our nature
(17:22):
to go to that, because it's afucking survival instinct.
Stefani Michelle (17:26):
Yeah, right.
Jeffrey Gray (17:27):
Yeah, it is, yeah it is, so it is natural.
But yeah, you just, you know, Imean, if you're not throwing
all that out out there and allof it in there and it calms you
down, and it calms you down tobe in the present, absolutely,
you know, and go into thatobserver mode.
(17:47):
Yeah, because you're not afraidright now.
What you're afraid of is whatyou're imagining, or what you're
afraid of is a repeat coming up.
But you know from the past.
But if you're just in thepresent, you know, you roll
through life a lot calmer.
Stefani Michelle (18:09):
I love that.
Yeah, that is so powerful thatstorytelling that we do is.
It can make or brick your ownspirit, because we are creating
stories, we're holding.
That's part of the attachmentwe're holding onto stories.
Well, if it happened this wayin the past, it's absolutely
going to happen this way in thefuture and the present, and we
just keep rolling with thosestories.
(18:32):
I have my whole life beenextremely reactive, extremely
volatile, you know, got kickedout of high school for fighting,
like one of those likeextremely hostile, reactive,
emotional.
You know, if I'm sad, I'm angry, if I'm hurt, I'm angry If I'm
all these things I just go ableto do.
(18:55):
And just had this moment thisweek again, I I could hear
myself creating stories.
I could hear myself just, youknow, and then this must be
happening, and then this must behappening, and then this must
be happening.
And then there was another sideof me that was going you're
creating that.
(19:16):
You don't know if that'sreality, you're hurt right now.
And so all of these defensemechanisms, all of this security
measures are coming up sayingput everything out there, fight,
fight, fight.
And for the first time in mylife, I, my life, I, as the
(19:45):
stories came up, I was goingokay, that will start a fight,
that will start an argument.
Don't say that, don't say that.
I knew I caught myself tryingto instigate and I have never
caught myself before, honestly,I just instigated.
I need to fight.
I'm feeling big emotions, Ineed to fight somebody and yeah,
it was hard, but, man, I did it.
(20:05):
And then there was one partwhere I did say something, but
it was so small compared to thestories that were going on and
for the first time in my life, Iwas able to say I'm sorry, I'm
just hurt right now and so mymind wants to hurt you, and I
know it sounds so immature thatat 49, this is the first time
(20:28):
I'm able to do that.
But that's been a personalbattle of mine and it's just
amazing when you can turn thataround and do it in real time
and say you know, tell yourselfyou're safe, you're safe, you're
safe right now.
This is okay.
Granddaughter Crow (20:46):
Yeah, I'm going to ask one of those if the
tree falls in the woods andnobody's around to hear it, does
it make a sound?
So this is just something tothink about.
Doing shadow work, for example,that what you just took us
through that scenario of that,you were able to catch yourself
(21:07):
because you realized that youwere being reactive with your
big emotions.
Was it your light that showedyou that you were being reactive
or was it your shadow thattaught you that you were being
overreactive?
Was it your light that wascausing you to react and was it
(21:29):
your shadow and learning aboutthat that helped you go?
Oh wait, I face my shadow.
I create all these stories.
My shadow is the wisdom keeper.
Now you don't have to answerunless you have an answer, but
what I want to do is slowlyshift this paradigm of shadow
(21:49):
means negative.
That's the evil side of myself,when actually, the more that I
do shadow work and the more thatwe get on these shadow talk
conversations seriously this hasbeen so beneficial, the more
I'm just like don't be mean tothe shadow.
It's only here to bring youwisdom and help you.
It's real, it's got reality, itdoesn't lie to you.
(22:11):
So I'm like on that end of this.
And so you know, I'm justtrying to slowly shift the
paradigm within our thinkingthat maybe it isn't our shadow
that is evil.
Maybe it is bringing us thesehidden aspects of ourselves to
(22:32):
light in order for us to be moreconscious.
So, once again, I don't know ifthe tree makes a sound or not,
you don't have to know.
I'm just posing questions tohelp us shift our mental
paradigm of thinking that shadowis evil.
Michelle, what do you got?
Stefani Michelle (22:48):
I mean, yeah, Stephanie, michelle, what do you
got?
I have an answer for me thatanswers that, and I love that
you asked that question For me.
In those moments, the shadowand the light are communicating.
They're talking to each other,they're friends.
I am in wholeness.
(23:10):
In that moment, before doingshadow work, I'm fragmented and
there is a battle light versusdark and it is a war.
But when you do the shadow work, it is a time of peace and they
(23:31):
communicate.
So for me, it's not at thismoment doing the shadow work,
it's not one side is talkingwhile the other side is holding
back.
It's that they're finallyworking together and they're in
harmony and they're in balanceand they are in love with each
other, with the self, with thewholeness, with being one.
And that, for me, is thegreatest gift shadow work can
give you, as you become wholeagain instead of fragmented.
Granddaughter Crow (23:54):
That was my answer too.
Stefani Michelle (23:59):
I mean.
I was going to say but you hadto ask the question because I
wouldn't have thought to ask thequestion.
So again, we're workingtogether.
Granddaughter Crow (24:09):
No, I love it.
That actually makes a lot ofsense.
Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant, and you know it's.
It's really interesting to mebecause doing shadow work not
only benefits you, for me, itmakes me.
Let's just do one more roundrobin.
(24:29):
How does it make you feel todayafter you have done shadow work
, and will you continue in thefuture?
So, for me, I will continuedoing shadow work in the future.
I am falling more and moredeeply in love and in like with
who I am.
If you want to fall in love orin like with yourself and you're
(24:55):
just like well, how is shedoing that?
I don't have time to do shadowwork.
Why don't you write down thingsthat you love about yourself,
like I love the way that my noseis, you know, or I love the way
that I'm able to laugh atmyself, or I love the way that I
(25:15):
can do math or figure out whatyou love about yourself.
But for me, doing shadow workmakes me fall more in love with
myself and it calms me down,like we were all saying, and it
actually helps me to show thosethat I care about that I
actually care about them,without like a bunch of worry
(25:39):
and insecurities and defensemechanisms in between.
I just show up in the present,so it helps me love better.
I love it.
Jeffrey Gray (25:49):
Doesn't it Absolutely.
Stefani Michelle (25:53):
It does, it really does.
Jeffrey Gray (25:55):
Yeah, I I.
Stefani Michelle (25:56):
I've never been able to be vulnerable.
I you know, not just yourself.
Being vulnerable is a form ofprotection and we think the
(26:23):
opposite of it.
So, yeah, I agree with you thatyou get to show up
authentically and vulnerably andstill be safe.
Granddaughter Crow (26:33):
Are you going to continue to do shadow
work?
Stefani Michelle (26:41):
are you going to continue to do shadow work?
Oh, absolutely, oh, absolutely,oh, my goodness, I don't think
the way that I have um createdthis routine, this momentum in
my life.
I can't turn that part of mybrain off anymore.
I can't ignore that.
So that communication cycle isjust permanently on and I will
forever be refining how I showup I love it.
Jeffrey Gray (27:03):
I love it so funny because when you were
talking, um, and you were sayingyou know you're able, you're
able to speak, you know now andin a truth to yourself, and I
thought, uh, that throat chakrano longer gets a lump in it,
that suppressing the shadow putsthere, you know, yeah, yeah.
(27:26):
I think the question was areyou going to continue to do?
Granddaughter Crow (27:32):
Like what benefits on a daily thing?
Or like what do you?
What do you if you found it?
Are you going to continue?
Jeffrey Gray (27:38):
to do shadow work , absolutely, yeah, without you
know, without a question.
Like Stephanie said, you can'twalk away from it once.
Once you're once, once you'reaware of it, it's going to, it's
going to be there.
You're going to carry that withyou and I've just, yeah,
absolutely, I love it.
(27:59):
I wrote down a lack ofreflection is a form of avoiding
reality.
You know which it is and I'vealways been, and it's so weird
because you would think that youknow, in the pagan community,
you know you're hanging out withwitches and all kinds of people
(28:20):
, some of the most realitygrounded individuals that I've
ever met in my life.
You know, because of thatself-awareness, because of you
know constantly peeling thatonion, as they would say, to get
(28:43):
to the core of yourself, soyour magic will be strong and
your spirit will be strong, youknow, walking through the world.
So, yeah, it's an empowerment.
Granddaughter Crow (28:52):
I love it.
Oh, absolutely An empowerment.
An empowerment.
And so another thing that Iwant to bring up as we're still
in the Shadow Talk series.
If you have found this, whetheryou are following this in real
time March, february, March 2025, or you find this two, five, 10
(29:16):
years down the road, and it'sprobably, I have a belief that
says it's because it's time foryou to investigate what that is.
And so, as you investigate, letyour heart be open and your
curiosity be open to how do youwant to approach shadow work.
(29:37):
Stephanie Michelle has laid itout in the chakras, which is so
beneficial, and she says you canread it from her book front to
back, or choose your ownadventure.
What we have done is laid itout in a shamanistic worldview
and and worked with animals andthe natural world, and so you
may kind of go well, which oneshould I do, when, in truth,
(30:01):
they compliment each other andyou get a figure out how you
want to do it.
For example, I do have alistener who is got my book for
Shamanism and your Shadow and isgoing to go through that
process, and as they go throughthe process, they're finding the
animals that we introduced theshamanic animals, the raven, the
(30:24):
snake, the owl and the wolf asliterally holding their hand as
they approach the shadow work.
And then, after they're donewith that, they're going to go
into which, they just receivedyour book in the mail, stephanie
, about chakras and shadow workand they're going to go into
keeping that like right there togo.
(30:45):
Oh my throat, okay, let's dothis.
And so you can keep doing thisand this and you can add I mean,
there's astrology in yourshadow to row in your set.
I don't know if there really isa to row in your shadow.
If not, maybe we should writethat oh, priority information,
priority information.
Don't record that.
You heard it here first.
(31:06):
No, the the beauty is, there'sso many ways to be able to
approach your shadow, so let'sdo one last.
Do you guys want to talkanything about?
I mean, this is the awakening,enlightenment process through
the darkness of the shadow, andnot meaning the evilness, but
(31:29):
the darkness of that which ishidden.
Let's just kind of wrap it up.
But if you want to say anythingabout the process of
enlightenment and how the shadowwork has helped with that, feel
free.
Stefani Michelle (31:44):
Oh, there is.
I was prepared for thisquestion but we went into a
beautiful direction that got me.
I kind of said all of thepoints and the other answers,
but I'll just kind of give youwhat I feel enlightenment is For
(32:05):
me.
It will never be a removal froma human experience I have that
already when I'm not in thisbody.
We all, in my opinion I most ofthe time live in that space.
For me, it is a blending ofexperiencing this life,
(32:31):
experiencing this body,experiencing the physical
attributes of this earth.
We don't have these tangiblethings, at least not in my
memory from where we come from.
We don't have this.
So enlightenment, again is ablending of that sacred space of
being a human, of feeling joyand feeling sadness and not
(32:55):
getting stuck in either of them,just allowing them to be part
of this beautiful journey andknowing that it really is just a
journey and we are forevergoing.
I love that.
Granddaughter Crow (33:11):
I absolutely love that.
What would you say in wrappingup the shadow talk, or do you
need an extra minute?
Jeffrey Gray (33:20):
Just listening to the conversation, just kind of
going with it, I forgot thequestion you know, because any
last words words, um, yeah, youknow I mean you gotta.
You gotta do the tears as muchas you do the laughter.
And you know moments of in like, I've had moments that I felt
(33:42):
were enlightening, um and uh,they were both.
You know the deepest laughterthat you could have and you know
the most bitter tears that youcan have.
And it's an experience.
Yeah, take advantage of it.
You know we need to takeadvantage of what we have right
(34:04):
now, where we're at, I mean,because you always have it,
because you will always have itthere's.
You know, nobody's taking stuffout of our little biodome here
that you know we call Gaiamother earth.
You know it's, it's anexistence.
You were here before and you'regoing to be here after, and
(34:25):
whatever form you take, you knowit's it's that energy exchange,
but it's yeah, enjoy it.
And you know it's it's thatenergy exchange, um, but it's
yeah, enjoy it.
And you know you gotta, yougotta, it's gotta be bitter for
you to laugh hard.
(34:47):
You know I mean you've got tohave that, and maybe it's just
my personality, I don't know.
I like the huge ups and downs.
Granddaughter Crow (34:51):
I love it.
So, jeff, not only is a darkpoet, he also does bonsai.
Oh, yeah, yeah what is thesaying before enlightenment.
Jeffrey Gray (35:06):
Oh yeah, it's before enlightenment chop wood
haul water.
After enlightenment chop woodhaul water.
After enlightenment chop woodhaul water.
Stefani Michelle (35:18):
That's perfect , that is absolutely right.
Of self abandonment, ofexperience, that you have to
just sit somewhere in meditationall day long and be this
peaceful, being 24 hours a day,365 days a year, and that's to
(35:42):
me, abandonment of life.
That's not, that's notexperiencing it.
I love that saying.
Before enlightenment wood andwater.
After enlightenment wood andwater.
Jeffrey Gray (35:53):
Yeah, chop wood and haul water.
Granddaughter Crow (35:53):
Chop wood and water after enlightenment
wood and water.
Yeah, chop wood and water.
Chop wood and haul water.
Stefani Michelle (35:57):
After enlightenment chop wood and haul
water right, and it's just thatdoing that becomes a different
experience.
When you're enlightened, itbecomes an experience of um
gratitude instead of anexperience of labor.
Yeah, I love that.
Jeffrey Gray (36:16):
I love that too.
Granddaughter Crow (36:18):
So thank you guys.
Listen, you can text the show,you can drop comments.
If you want to continue, or ifyou have a question that you
think is going to stump us,please ask.
Let's go there.
Anyway, this wraps up at leastseason one of the Shadow Talk
(36:39):
series.
If you guys want more of this,please let me know.
You can message DM Stephanie.
Michelle, thank you so much forall of your voice and your
vulnerability and your wisdomthat you have shared with us
through this.
thank you for writing the bookabsolutely really appreciate
that and, um, you guys, we loveyou, love you, love you, and I
(37:04):
hope that you have a good day onpurpose and we will see you on
the flippity flip.
Welcome to Belief, being and Beyond with
your host, granddaughter Crow.
Hey everybody, welcome to yetanother episode of Belief, being
and Beyond Shadow Talk series.
I do we do really hope that youhave been enjoying this series.
This is going to be wrapping upthis section of the series
(00:25):
where we do end with a live.
Check outwwwgranddaughtercrowcom for more
information on the live event.
I hope you guys can make it.
Otherwise, we have with usStephanie Michelle, the author
of Chakras and your Shadow.
Stephanie Michelle, the authorof Chakras and your Shadow, and
(00:45):
Jeffrey Gray, the author of allof the Ingresses and Portals and
Journey work from my bookShamanism and your Shadow.
This is Shadow Talk, and so atfirst we talked about, like,
what is our personal experience,to kind of give you guys a
(01:12):
little bit of a oh behind thecurtain.
And then oh, expanded it Likeit doesn't only come from this
lifetime.
We went into history and DNAand even just being a female.
And and then last time, oh gosh, last time, what did we go into
?
Just a beautiful talk about um.
What did we go into?
Jeffrey Gray (01:24):
Just a beautiful talk about.
What were we talking?
Stefani Michelle (01:29):
about last time Because you both erased it
from your memory.
You know I'm not going to beable to find it.
I rely on telepathy to findthings.
Jeffrey Gray (01:40):
I remember saying at the end of it that we did a
really good job.
Stefani Michelle (01:46):
Right, right, right.
Jeffrey Gray (01:46):
I guess that was just a bow on it and just let it
go Right.
Stefani Michelle (01:51):
I think it was about the books, the process of
doing the shadow work.
I got it.
Granddaughter Crow (01:58):
I got it, and so let me just, I'm just
going to go into it, you guys.
Jeffrey Gray (02:01):
Okay.
Granddaughter Crow (02:02):
Okay, yeah, and then last time we talked
about why did we approach shadowwork from a chakra point of
view and or shamanism, and itwas just so beautiful because we
approached it so that peoplecan embody it and feel it, and
it really kind of came out thatyou can't see your shadow
(02:23):
because it's hidden in theshadow.
So you got to sense it, and sowe thought that we would go
ahead and top this off with alittle bit more of answering the
question to you why would youdo shadow work?
What are the benefits, or someof the benefits, of doing shadow
(02:48):
work?
So we, once again, are going todo round robin.
Who would like to kick us off?
Stephanie, are you ready?
You want to kick us off?
Or Jeff, do you?
Stefani Michelle (02:56):
have something .
Yeah, let's go for it, okay,okay.
So I think that what we'redoing right now is perfect
timing in regards to the entireseries, because for me and I
know a lot of people that I'vebeen talking to February and
(03:18):
March of 2025 has been extremelyintense.
This year came in to strip awayyour fears, to strip away old
behaviors and patterns, and itis making a scene, let's say,
and things are changing.
Things are extremely heavy andlight all at the same time, and
(03:44):
so, for me, if I hadn't doneshadow work, if I hadn't been on
this journey, this moment,especially the last two weeks,
would have very differentresults than me being able to
sit here and talk to you rightnow, able to sit here and talk
(04:08):
to you right now.
There was a moment where I hadto call my 79-year-old mother
and ask her like, am I going tomake it?
And she said remember yourtools.
Remember your tools.
And she said you.
She reminded me, and one of thethings that I talk about is
your support system.
You need to have a supportsystem, and so, for me, I do
have my mother and other people,but having a support system is
(04:33):
not taboo, it's not bad.
Doing shadow work actuallyenables you, it helps you, ask
for help.
I couldn't ask for help before.
I couldn't call my mother, Iwould just crawl under a rock
and, you know, turn everythingoff.
But with what has beenhappening the last two weeks in
my personal life, I have so manymore tools where I can, you
(05:01):
know, sit in the experience and,oh, I can't believe I'm going
to say this word and detach fromit.
And the reason why that is sucha a intense word for me is
because for 45 years that hasbeen the thing my mother has
asked me to do.
Please detach, please detach.
(05:22):
And I thought that meant don'tcare.
Oh, I did not understand untilI did the shadow work, that that
meant don't put yourself in theeye of the storm, don't put
yourself in the chaos, don'ttake on everyone else's pain, be
(05:43):
an observer, zoom out.
There was a part in my healingjourney where I spoke loudly to
God and I've shared this story amillion times and he basically
said nothing is real and I'mjust using the general term that
we all understand.
But that was the conversation.
Nothing is real.
And I went through.
What about my kids?
(06:04):
What about you?
Know all these big, largeexperiences, and I remember when
it was a 45 minute conversationand at the end of it I remember
saying to him is my knee real?
And he said, no, your knee isnot real.
Nothing is real, it's okay.
And and in the moment of havingthat conversation and again,
this was during the shadow work,this was during the healing it
(06:27):
was a very scary, scary moment,but the effect of that moment
has had on me, has beenliberating, has been freeing,
has enabled me to detach, hasenabled me to go through the
moments that I've had these lasttwo weeks up until two hours
ago, and see it from just acycle, just an evolution of time
(06:53):
, just a transformation, and notattach myself to any specific
moment that is happening,because that attachment is what,
for me, causes extreme frenzy,extreme chaos, extreme need to
control.
And I was able to release allthat by doing the shadow work
(07:14):
and continuing to do the shadowwork.
Granddaughter Crow (07:17):
I absolutely love that because you
know moreover to Stephanie'spoint, because you know,
moreover to Stephanie's pointyou know, as sensitive people,
as conscious people, we thinkthat, oh, because I sense
something, because I feelsomething, I need to go there
and do this and do that.
And so we always like attachimmediately, as though it is
(07:47):
that is what we are called to do, that's the call to action.
But as you grow spiritually,you realize, becoming the
observer, and you know, you care, but you're not like it is not
moving you, you are observing itand there's a, there's a
liberation.
And in doing the shadow work, Iabsolutely agree with that
Because for me, another one ofthe benefits of the shadow is
(08:13):
kind of like what Stephanie wastalking about these little
voices in your head.
That's like I should do this, Ishould do that, I'm supposed to,
and a lot of these narratives,or these sounds in my mind, are
based on an old story ofsurvival and or persecution, so
that I do or do not get introuble, do or do not get in
(08:34):
trouble, exactly.
Sometimes I chose to you know,actually, but at the end of the
day, the ability to also stepback and observe those internal
narratives and go, wait a second.
That doesn't equal.
That's old.
That doesn't equal where I amright now, and let me show up
and be present right now.
(08:56):
Check what you have to sayabout the benefits of doing
shadow work well, I couldn'tagree more with you.
Jeffrey Gray (09:03):
Know what both of you you have have said with it.
It's, you know, thatself-reflection really needs to
be.
You don't need to be sojudgmental with your when you're
doing your self-reflection, youknow, because everybody,
everybody has these shadows.
You know big shadows, darkshadows, huge shadows.
(09:24):
Some, you know big shadows,dark shadows, huge shadows.
Some people, you know somefolks carry with them and, yeah,
the detachment is, I think it'sthe ability to look at it with
clarity of an observer.
You know, that's true.
Stefani Michelle (09:43):
Yeah.
Jeffrey Gray (09:44):
And I think it's really important that we're
doing we doing the work.
I agree with the timing of thiswhole thing.
There's a reason why here, whywe're here.
You know the reason why peopleare writing the books and why
people are reading the books.
And you know listening topodcasts and exploring, you know
exploring the shadows ofoneself.
(10:06):
You carry this stuff in yourheart.
You know you got this heartmedicine.
What is it?
Six feet.
You know you've got that energy, the electricity.
We said in one of the first Iremember that this is going to
be an electric conversation soyou've got that and, uh, you
(10:31):
share that with you.
Share that with whatever isnear you.
You know dogs cue on that withus.
That's one of the reasons whythey're man's best friend, um,
because they're, you know, theycue, cue on that, um, so this
affects.
You know, not everybody's goingto do shadow work, right, but I
think, with those of us that areaware, self-aware and willing
(10:57):
to do that work, that hard work,it's going to combat, uh, the
shared shadow consciousness thatwe deal with.
That is so easy, you know.
I mean, we're so easilymanipulated through these things
.
You know, oh, I'm scared ofthis.
Well, let's make a big deal outof what you're scared of and
(11:19):
you'll vote for us.
You know this, this type of ofof mentality that's going on
right now, and I think it's good, good, noble work for us to be
doing and for anybody that youknow that picks it up, and it's
like I that is such a huge partof it also is that zooming out
(11:41):
is not just for your personalsituations, it is for global
situations.
Stefani Michelle (11:56):
You can be able to see where the
manipulation is coming from andyou know what the truth is
behind the screen of it all.
I mean, it really has enabledme not to fall victim to the
fear mongering on either side ofthe spectrum on anything that
(12:17):
anyone says.
I am able to not take things atface value, at just.
You know the sensationalism ofit and that is part of shadow
work, absolutely.
I'm glad that you brought thatup.
I think that's important.
Granddaughter Crow (12:32):
Me too, and you know so.
One is that you're able to hearand see more clearly, not only
with your internal voice, butwith the global voice.
Be aware.
So I don't cast my shadow, myfears, my anxiety, my narrative
onto other people, especiallythose that I love the most, you
(13:06):
know, and then we're all in afrenzy.
So doing shadow work helps youto see and hear and become aware
.
I would also like to add onemore thing Again the flip side
of all of that, not only thedarkness and the fear and the
slowing down.
It also helps us to observe ourgifts and treasures and talents
(13:32):
, not only in ourself, but inothers, and so what I mean by
that is sometimes you get raisedin a family that does not like
people who write with their lefthand right, and so you might be
a left-handed artist, butbecause you are raised in a
situation where you are writingwith your left hand and they
don't want you to, you're forcedto learn how to write with your
(13:55):
right hand, and now you'reaccepted.
So, in a very weird way, youwriting with your left hand is a
part of your shadow.
Now it's the hidden gift thatyou have, and so sometimes
mining and doing this workbrings out.
I didn't.
I do feel more comfortablewriting with my left hand.
In fact, it's not just the ABCsand one, two, threes and
(14:18):
whatever language you speak, itis these glorious pictures that
come through when I'm able to dosomething that I wasn't because
I had to hide it because of thesocial construct of my
childhood.
So there's also the ability tosee your shadow and your fear,
not cast it onto others.
(14:39):
See your gifts and your talentsand also spot other people's
gifts and their talents.
I would say that's another hugebenefit.
It is yeah go ahead.
Stefani Michelle (14:52):
I was just going to say it absolutely is.
It's very empowering, it's veryclarifying and it is, in a way,
you get to process in real timeeverything around you, and that
I think that's just sobeautiful.
Sorry to cut you off, but yeah,I just couldn't agree more with
everything that you're saying.
Granddaughter Crow (15:12):
It's like oh, and that kind of this
process in real time is what Ialso want to kind of clarify or
talk a little bit more, delveinto.
Because when you are able toobserve, when you are able to
see more clearly, because yousee yourself more clearly, when
(15:34):
both the fears as well as thegifts, when both the fears as
well as the gifts, and then youare able to process in real time
, aka be present in thesituation, appreciate all of the
beauty and the hardship andeverything.
The processing in real timehelps me on a day-to-day
(15:56):
activities.
So doing shadow work doesaffect my day-to-day life and
how I will stop myself and gowait.
That was an old version of me.
Let me be in real time, wait.
That was this.
Let me be present now.
And the more that I am present,the more that I stop casting my
(16:18):
shadow and fears andinsecurities onto others like,
oh my God, they must think thatthis or that it's just like they
didn't even say anything.
In fact, they're probably noteven thinking about you.
What are you doing?
You know it changes.
It changes the way that Iapproach all of my activities,
not only approach people, butapproach just household chores
(16:41):
and my job being present becauseof that.
So what daily benefits wouldyou guys see that shadow work
does?
Jeffrey Gray (16:52):
You guys yeah, I do, it's, you know, listening,
listening to the conversation,it's calming, It'll calm, it'll
calm shit down.
You know, because all of asudden you're that, you know.
I mean, it's just natural, it'sjust it's, it's in our nature
(17:22):
to go to that, because it's afucking survival instinct.
Stefani Michelle (17:26):
Yeah, right.
Jeffrey Gray (17:27):
Yeah, it is, yeah it is, so it is natural.
But yeah, you just, you know, Imean, if you're not throwing
all that out out there and allof it in there and it calms you
down, and it calms you down tobe in the present, absolutely,
you know, and go into thatobserver mode.
(17:47):
Yeah, because you're not afraidright now.
What you're afraid of is whatyou're imagining, or what you're
afraid of is a repeat coming up.
But you know from the past.
But if you're just in thepresent, you know, you roll
through life a lot calmer.
Stefani Michelle (18:09):
I love that.
Yeah, that is so powerful thatstorytelling that we do is.
It can make or brick your ownspirit, because we are creating
stories, we're holding.
That's part of the attachmentwe're holding onto stories.
Well, if it happened this wayin the past, it's absolutely
going to happen this way in thefuture and the present, and we
just keep rolling with thosestories.
(18:32):
I have my whole life beenextremely reactive, extremely
volatile, you know, got kickedout of high school for fighting,
like one of those likeextremely hostile, reactive,
emotional.
You know, if I'm sad, I'm angry, if I'm hurt, I'm angry If I'm
all these things I just go ableto do.
(18:55):
And just had this moment thisweek again, I I could hear
myself creating stories.
I could hear myself just, youknow, and then this must be
happening, and then this must behappening, and then this must
be happening.
And then there was another sideof me that was going you're
creating that.
(19:16):
You don't know if that'sreality, you're hurt right now.
And so all of these defensemechanisms, all of this security
measures are coming up sayingput everything out there, fight,
fight, fight.
And for the first time in mylife, I, my life, I, as the
(19:45):
stories came up, I was goingokay, that will start a fight,
that will start an argument.
Don't say that, don't say that.
I knew I caught myself tryingto instigate and I have never
caught myself before, honestly,I just instigated.
I need to fight.
I'm feeling big emotions, Ineed to fight somebody and yeah,
it was hard, but, man, I did it.
(20:05):
And then there was one partwhere I did say something, but
it was so small compared to thestories that were going on and
for the first time in my life, Iwas able to say I'm sorry, I'm
just hurt right now and so mymind wants to hurt you, and I
know it sounds so immature thatat 49, this is the first time
(20:28):
I'm able to do that.
But that's been a personalbattle of mine and it's just
amazing when you can turn thataround and do it in real time
and say you know, tell yourselfyou're safe, you're safe, you're
safe right now.
This is okay.
Granddaughter Crow (20:46):
Yeah, I'm going to ask one of those if the
tree falls in the woods andnobody's around to hear it, does
it make a sound?
So this is just something tothink about.
Doing shadow work, for example,that what you just took us
through that scenario of that,you were able to catch yourself
(21:07):
because you realized that youwere being reactive with your
big emotions.
Was it your light that showedyou that you were being reactive
or was it your shadow thattaught you that you were being
overreactive?
Was it your light that wascausing you to react and was it
(21:29):
your shadow and learning aboutthat that helped you go?
Oh wait, I face my shadow.
I create all these stories.
My shadow is the wisdom keeper.
Now you don't have to answerunless you have an answer, but
what I want to do is slowlyshift this paradigm of shadow
(21:49):
means negative.
That's the evil side of myself,when actually, the more that I
do shadow work and the more thatwe get on these shadow talk
conversations seriously this hasbeen so beneficial, the more
I'm just like don't be mean tothe shadow.
It's only here to bring youwisdom and help you.
It's real, it's got reality, itdoesn't lie to you.
(22:11):
So I'm like on that end of this.
And so you know, I'm justtrying to slowly shift the
paradigm within our thinkingthat maybe it isn't our shadow
that is evil.
Maybe it is bringing us thesehidden aspects of ourselves to
(22:32):
light in order for us to be moreconscious.
So, once again, I don't know ifthe tree makes a sound or not,
you don't have to know.
I'm just posing questions tohelp us shift our mental
paradigm of thinking that shadowis evil.
Michelle, what do you got?
Stefani Michelle (22:48):
I mean, yeah, Stephanie, michelle, what do you
got?
I have an answer for me thatanswers that, and I love that
you asked that question For me.
In those moments, the shadowand the light are communicating.
They're talking to each other,they're friends.
I am in wholeness.
(23:10):
In that moment, before doingshadow work, I'm fragmented and
there is a battle light versusdark and it is a war.
But when you do the shadow work, it is a time of peace and they
(23:31):
communicate.
So for me, it's not at thismoment doing the shadow work,
it's not one side is talkingwhile the other side is holding
back.
It's that they're finallyworking together and they're in
harmony and they're in balanceand they are in love with each
other, with the self, with thewholeness, with being one.
And that, for me, is thegreatest gift shadow work can
give you, as you become wholeagain instead of fragmented.
Granddaughter Crow (23:54):
That was my answer too.
Stefani Michelle (23:59):
I mean.
I was going to say but you hadto ask the question because I
wouldn't have thought to ask thequestion.
So again, we're workingtogether.
Granddaughter Crow (24:09):
No, I love it.
That actually makes a lot ofsense.
Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant, and you know it's.
It's really interesting to mebecause doing shadow work not
only benefits you, for me, itmakes me.
Let's just do one more roundrobin.
(24:29):
How does it make you feel todayafter you have done shadow work
, and will you continue in thefuture?
So, for me, I will continuedoing shadow work in the future.
I am falling more and moredeeply in love and in like with
who I am.
If you want to fall in love orin like with yourself and you're
(24:55):
just like well, how is shedoing that?
I don't have time to do shadowwork.
Why don't you write down thingsthat you love about yourself,
like I love the way that my noseis, you know, or I love the way
that I'm able to laugh atmyself, or I love the way that I
(25:15):
can do math or figure out whatyou love about yourself.
But for me, doing shadow workmakes me fall more in love with
myself and it calms me down,like we were all saying, and it
actually helps me to show thosethat I care about that I
actually care about them,without like a bunch of worry
(25:39):
and insecurities and defensemechanisms in between.
I just show up in the present,so it helps me love better.
I love it.
Jeffrey Gray (25:49):
Doesn't it Absolutely.
Stefani Michelle (25:53):
It does, it really does.
Jeffrey Gray (25:55):
Yeah, I I.
Stefani Michelle (25:56):
I've never been able to be vulnerable.
I you know, not just yourself.
Being vulnerable is a form ofprotection and we think the
(26:23):
opposite of it.
So, yeah, I agree with you thatyou get to show up
authentically and vulnerably andstill be safe.
Granddaughter Crow (26:33):
Are you going to continue to do shadow
work?
Stefani Michelle (26:41):
are you going to continue to do shadow work?
Oh, absolutely, oh, absolutely,oh, my goodness, I don't think
the way that I have um createdthis routine, this momentum in
my life.
I can't turn that part of mybrain off anymore.
I can't ignore that.
So that communication cycle isjust permanently on and I will
forever be refining how I showup I love it.
Jeffrey Gray (27:03):
I love it so funny because when you were
talking, um, and you were sayingyou know you're able, you're
able to speak, you know now andin a truth to yourself, and I
thought, uh, that throat chakrano longer gets a lump in it,
that suppressing the shadow putsthere, you know, yeah, yeah.
(27:26):
I think the question was areyou going to continue to do?
Granddaughter Crow (27:32):
Like what benefits on a daily thing?
Or like what do you?
What do you if you found it?
Are you going to continue?
Jeffrey Gray (27:38):
to do shadow work , absolutely, yeah, without you
know, without a question.
Like Stephanie said, you can'twalk away from it once.
Once you're once, once you'reaware of it, it's going to, it's
going to be there.
You're going to carry that withyou and I've just, yeah,
absolutely, I love it.
(27:59):
I wrote down a lack ofreflection is a form of avoiding
reality.
You know which it is and I'vealways been, and it's so weird
because you would think that youknow, in the pagan community,
you know you're hanging out withwitches and all kinds of people
(28:20):
, some of the most realitygrounded individuals that I've
ever met in my life.
You know, because of thatself-awareness, because of you
know constantly peeling thatonion, as they would say, to get
(28:43):
to the core of yourself, soyour magic will be strong and
your spirit will be strong, youknow, walking through the world.
So, yeah, it's an empowerment.
Granddaughter Crow (28:52):
I love it.
Oh, absolutely An empowerment.
An empowerment.
And so another thing that Iwant to bring up as we're still
in the Shadow Talk series.
If you have found this, whetheryou are following this in real
time March, february, March 2025, or you find this two, five, 10
(29:16):
years down the road, and it'sprobably, I have a belief that
says it's because it's time foryou to investigate what that is.
And so, as you investigate, letyour heart be open and your
curiosity be open to how do youwant to approach shadow work.
(29:37):
Stephanie Michelle has laid itout in the chakras, which is so
beneficial, and she says you canread it from her book front to
back, or choose your ownadventure.
What we have done is laid itout in a shamanistic worldview
and and worked with animals andthe natural world, and so you
may kind of go well, which oneshould I do, when, in truth,
(30:01):
they compliment each other andyou get a figure out how you
want to do it.
For example, I do have alistener who is got my book for
Shamanism and your Shadow and isgoing to go through that
process, and as they go throughthe process, they're finding the
animals that we introduced theshamanic animals, the raven, the
(30:24):
snake, the owl and the wolf asliterally holding their hand as
they approach the shadow work.
And then, after they're donewith that, they're going to go
into which, they just receivedyour book in the mail, stephanie
, about chakras and shadow workand they're going to go into
keeping that like right there togo.
(30:45):
Oh my throat, okay, let's dothis.
And so you can keep doing thisand this and you can add I mean,
there's astrology in yourshadow to row in your set.
I don't know if there really isa to row in your shadow.
If not, maybe we should writethat oh, priority information,
priority information.
Don't record that.
You heard it here first.
(31:06):
No, the the beauty is, there'sso many ways to be able to
approach your shadow, so let'sdo one last.
Do you guys want to talkanything about?
I mean, this is the awakening,enlightenment process through
the darkness of the shadow, andnot meaning the evilness, but
(31:29):
the darkness of that which ishidden.
Let's just kind of wrap it up.
But if you want to say anythingabout the process of
enlightenment and how the shadowwork has helped with that, feel
free.
Stefani Michelle (31:44):
Oh, there is.
I was prepared for thisquestion but we went into a
beautiful direction that got me.
I kind of said all of thepoints and the other answers,
but I'll just kind of give youwhat I feel enlightenment is For
(32:05):
me.
It will never be a removal froma human experience I have that
already when I'm not in thisbody.
We all, in my opinion I most ofthe time live in that space.
For me, it is a blending ofexperiencing this life,
(32:31):
experiencing this body,experiencing the physical
attributes of this earth.
We don't have these tangiblethings, at least not in my
memory from where we come from.
We don't have this.
So enlightenment, again is ablending of that sacred space of
being a human, of feeling joyand feeling sadness and not
(32:55):
getting stuck in either of them,just allowing them to be part
of this beautiful journey andknowing that it really is just a
journey and we are forevergoing.
I love that.
Granddaughter Crow (33:11):
I absolutely love that.
What would you say in wrappingup the shadow talk, or do you
need an extra minute?
Jeffrey Gray (33:20):
Just listening to the conversation, just kind of
going with it, I forgot thequestion you know, because any
last words words, um, yeah, youknow I mean you gotta.
You gotta do the tears as muchas you do the laughter.
And you know moments of in like, I've had moments that I felt
(33:42):
were enlightening, um and uh,they were both.
You know the deepest laughterthat you could have and you know
the most bitter tears that youcan have.
And it's an experience.
Yeah, take advantage of it.
You know we need to takeadvantage of what we have right
(34:04):
now, where we're at, I mean,because you always have it,
because you will always have itthere's.
You know, nobody's taking stuffout of our little biodome here
that you know we call Gaiamother earth.
You know it's, it's anexistence.
You were here before and you'regoing to be here after, and
(34:25):
whatever form you take, you knowit's it's that energy exchange,
but it's yeah, enjoy it.
And you know it's it's thatenergy exchange, um, but it's
yeah, enjoy it.
And you know you gotta, yougotta, it's gotta be bitter for
you to laugh hard.
(34:47):
You know I mean you've got tohave that, and maybe it's just
my personality, I don't know.
I like the huge ups and downs.
Granddaughter Crow (34:51):
I love it.
So, jeff, not only is a darkpoet, he also does bonsai.
Oh, yeah, yeah what is thesaying before enlightenment.
Jeffrey Gray (35:06):
Oh yeah, it's before enlightenment chop wood
haul water.
After enlightenment chop woodhaul water.
After enlightenment chop woodhaul water.
Stefani Michelle (35:18):
That's perfect , that is absolutely right.
Of self abandonment, ofexperience, that you have to
just sit somewhere in meditationall day long and be this
peaceful, being 24 hours a day,365 days a year, and that's to
(35:42):
me, abandonment of life.
That's not, that's notexperiencing it.
I love that saying.
Before enlightenment wood andwater.
After enlightenment wood andwater.
Jeffrey Gray (35:53):
Yeah, chop wood and haul water.
Granddaughter Crow (35:53):
Chop wood and water after enlightenment
wood and water.
Yeah, chop wood and water.
Chop wood and haul water.
Stefani Michelle (35:57):
After enlightenment chop wood and haul
water right, and it's just thatdoing that becomes a different
experience.
When you're enlightened, itbecomes an experience of um
gratitude instead of anexperience of labor.
Yeah, I love that.
Jeffrey Gray (36:16):
I love that too.
Granddaughter Crow (36:18):
So thank you guys.
Listen, you can text the show,you can drop comments.
If you want to continue, or ifyou have a question that you
think is going to stump us,please ask.
Let's go there.
Anyway, this wraps up at leastseason one of the Shadow Talk
(36:39):
series.
If you guys want more of this,please let me know.
You can message DM Stephanie.
Michelle, thank you so much forall of your voice and your
vulnerability and your wisdomthat you have shared with us
through this.
thank you for writing the bookabsolutely really appreciate
that and, um, you guys, we loveyou, love you, love you, and I
(37:04):
hope that you have a good day onpurpose and we will see you on
the flippity flip.
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