February 18, 2025 • 45 mins
This episode explores the transformative journey of shadow work through personal narratives that emphasize empowerment and self-acceptance. Hosts share stories of encounters with their shadows, illustrating how embracing this darker aspect of themselves has led to profound personal changes and healing.
• Granddaughter Crow recounts a pivotal moment during a ritual experience
• Stefani Michelle connects past trauma with her journey into self-love
• Jeffrey Gray highlights the empowering role of music in facing shadows
• Discussion addresses societal views on shadow and personal identity
• Emphasizes the importance of accepting and embracing one's shadow
Stefani has been an intuitive healer her whole life studying metaphysics and energy with her mother since the 80's. She enjoyed a career in education and obtained degrees in communications, sociology, and leadership.
She also became a Reiki Master and Interfaith Minister in '96. Recently she became a yoga teacher and retired from traditional education to become a healer and coach.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Belief, being and Beyond with your host,
granddaughter Crow.
Hi everybody, granddaughterCrow here for yet another
episode of a special series hereon Belief, being and Beyond
called Shadow Talk.
Now, if you've missed out, wehave another video.
This is our second video onthis series and we're going to
(00:23):
end out this series with a live,so keep track of what we're
doing.
I am here with StephanieMichelle, the author of Chakras
and your Shadow Work, and I amGranddaughter Crow.
Last episode we talked aboutjourney work and I said, hey, my
husband, jeffrey Gray, is theone who wrote all of that.
(00:47):
So we have a special guest foryou guys today.
He is Asatru, which means he ison the Norse path, sworn to
Odin, and he is a musician bassplayer, alchemical bass.
He's traveled all aroundAmerica Canada, usa, canada for
(01:08):
years, since he was a teenager,playing in different bass,
guitar bands and all of thatkind of stuff, and now he is my
beloved husband and co-author tomy book Shadows and your Shaman
.
Please welcome, jeffrey Gray.
This is my beloved husband,jeffrey Gray.
(01:31):
What an introduction, huh.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Hey, that was amazing .
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Hello.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
I know.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
So this is really amazing interview.
We in this episode we're goingto kind of give a little bit
more personal stories so thatyou can relate a little bit more
and or just hear our personalstories.
So the first question thatwe're going to get into is how
(02:00):
our own shadow work changed ourlives, how my shadow work
changed my life, how Stephanie'sshadow work changed our lives,
how my shadow work changed mylife, how Stephanie shadow work
changed her life, and then we'llhand it over to Jeffrey Gray.
So I'll just kick it off andsay in this question I keep
thinking about well, when did Istart doing shadow work?
(02:22):
And the answer is I don't know.
But I do remember a verysignificant moment when I was
probably it was probably 10years ago, and it's the one that
sticks out in my mind the mostas actually doing shadow work,
explicitly knowing it was shadowwork.
(02:42):
It was on Samhain, what otherpeople call Halloween, and we
were doing a ritual in ourbackyard and I took the role of
the high priestess.
I wore a cloak, so I didn't seewho was standing in the circle,
and I went around and I justread the energy.
I didn't know who I wasstanding before.
That's a lot of energetic workto do, you know, stephanie.
(03:06):
You know that it's a lot ofenergetic work to do.
And so immediately I goupstairs into my bedroom and I
kind of strip off all of thatgarb and the cloak, trying to
reground and recenter, trying toreground and recenter, and this
image showed up right in frontof me and it was dark and I knew
(03:28):
it was my shadow and I said whyare you haunting me?
You were such a mean bitch.
What do you want from me?
Go away.
You know what she said to me.
Why do you treat me like this?
I love you and I have been yourprotector on multiple occasions
(03:55):
.
And in my mind's eye I saw herprotecting me when I got
attacked when I was 17 in youknow an alleyway by a drunk guy
with a knife.
I got away and I started seeingall of these other things and
she said I'm the one that savedyour life at least five times,
so don't treat me like this.
And I dramatically fell at herfeet because I'm exhausted and
(04:20):
this was overwhelming and Iembraced her as my protector and
she has been with me with astrong voice ever since and it
changed my life because Istopped running away from my
internal protector, even thoughI think that maybe she was mean
sometimes mean sometimes, andthat wasn't the one that I
(04:48):
should have been running awayfrom.
That was the one that embracedme and that she told me that she
loved me and that wasprotecting me.
And she's the side of me that Idon't want to see, because I
was raised a good littleChristian girl and I need to,
you know, be good and nice andsmile and love.
And she was just like no,sometimes you got to be mean.
It saves your life.
Sometimes you've got to standup, whether they see it as mean
(05:08):
or not.
And I was just like.
So.
That's my initial story abouthow my own shadow work really
changed my life, because itchanged my perspective as well.
As it changed not only myperspective about me.
(05:29):
It helped me to embrace mywhole self.
I started feeling so much morecomfortable.
I stopped being afraid ofmyself and or you know, all of
that kind of stuff.
My cat she's trying to get inand tell her story about when
she Hold on.
So that was my cat.
(05:56):
She decided she wanted to jointhis lovely conversation and
tell us how she owns her shadowand how it changed, of course.
So what do you guys think aboutthat?
Speaker 2 (06:09):
I mean, it's pretty well, yeah, I actually think
that is an incredible story andmakes me realize what my shadow
work actually is.
The story that I had preparedtoday is not the story I'm about
to tell you, but what you justshared.
(06:32):
Yeah, put so many puzzle piecestogether for me.
So I have a book it's up in theshelf up there that I wrote
before chakras and shadow workup there, that I wrote before
chakras and shadow work, butit's self-published and it's
called the beast and when I waslittle I had, from as early as I
(06:55):
can remember I had dreams ofSatan We'll call him in the
beginning of my life, satan, andhe started off as a tree on
fire and he would send out theselittle fireballs running after
me.
And then the hell hounds wererunning after me and they were
nightmares and I was, you know,three years old, five years old,
(07:16):
10 years old, 15, 18, my wholelife just dreaming of Satan.
And so I wrote this book calledthe Beast, and in that time I
also had sexual trauma and soyou know, on a psychological
perspective, it was like, oh,were the dreams because of that?
Was that?
You know where's thatentanglement?
(07:38):
And I wound up in a marriagethat kind of mirrored the Beast
and the trauma, and so thatfirst book is all about how I
reinvented my trauma in a and Icalled him the beast.
And then I had this third bookand a half where I wrote letters
(08:04):
from the beast and Iself-published it again but it
was like in the midst of myuntangling and there was poetry
in it, but it's all.
I think there's like 10 pagesthat repeat themselves.
Like it's chaotic that bookletters from the beast, but in
that moment in letters from thebeast moment.
(08:25):
I knew I was the beast, not him,not anyone else.
But I was still in chaos, I wasstill in trauma cycles.
I had that meditation, thatvision, that journey that I
(08:46):
shared with you, the Rose Gardenwhich is in chakras and shadow
work.
And the very first time I wasgifted with that journey, I
unzipped, took off my skin andthrew it in.
It was a big brick oven and Ithrew it in there and I remember
carrying it and it was heavy inthis journey and I threw it in
there and I remember carrying itand it was heavy in this
journey and I threw it in thereand I sobbed and sobbed, and
(09:09):
sobbed.
And ever since that moment and Ididn't even realize this until
you just shared your story butever since that moment I had, I
knew that that was when myshadow work began, but I didn't
realize the mirror of Lucifer,because all of a sudden Lucifer
started showing up in my life,no longer Satan, and I realized
(09:32):
that as a Capricorn, I didn'teven it was not conscious
knowledge that as a Capricorn Iwas the devil in tarot and it
was.
He just kept showing up and hekept showing up and this time he
wasn't, he wasn't scary and hewasn't asking to overcome me.
(09:54):
And he wasn't asking because inthose dreams, part of it was be
my wife, stay with me.
You know all those kinds ofscenarios that they say the
devil does, you know, like,manipulate you, which is why I
put it on my first marriage.
And but in my forties, asLucifer would show up, I
remember he showed up in ahealing and what happens when
(10:18):
I'm doing these energetichealings is when I go to the
person's feet, a deity, a God,somebody always shows up at the
head and it was Lucifer and hewas big and bright and all of
the things.
And we're having thisconversation over this person's
(10:40):
body and he was basically sayingI am you, we are morning light,
we are self-empowerment, wefight for ourselves.
And I was crying and of courseit was relevant to the person
that I was healing and we hadthis beautiful conversation, but
(11:03):
I didn't realize in that moment, and literally until you, I
knew that I had been workingwith him and that he was a
protector and what he did wasfight for your soul and he
fought, he fights, for yourpersonal light and personal
empowerment, but I didn'trealize that I had married those
(11:23):
two things.
No longer was I Satan, I wasnow Lucifer.
So I was Lucifer Morningstarand I am that resolved energy
and not that demonized energy.
And thank you, because that isamazing.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
I love that because you know, a lot of people
bastardize, demonize all of that.
That is Lucifer, when Luciferis the morning star, is the one
that questioned authority, isthe one who said eat from the
(12:04):
tree of the knowledge of goodand evil, all of that kind of
stuff.
And I love that we're talkingabout shadow, because shadow too
is bastardized, demonized,shoved under the rug, when
really it is our morning star.
That's an inspirational.
(12:24):
Yeah, go ahead, Go ahead.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
And what I and I had realized this, but again, I
didn't put it all together untiljust now.
There was a moment in 2022where I once again saw the
hellhounds, but this time in2022, they said to me we're here
for you, we love you, we workwith you, and I was like I was
(12:46):
crying, sobbing, and just what abeautiful gift you just gave me
to be able to put all of thoseexperiences together.
I was going to go somewherecompletely different with it.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Yeah, yeah, this is why we have these conversations
and you know, for the listeners,do your research about the
shadow, about everything thatwe're talking about.
It is taboo, but if you'relistening to this show,
something is making a littlesense that you know this is our
(13:22):
protector.
And it has been given a lot ofnegative connotations, I believe
, because a lot of people don'twant us to question, they don't
want us to protect ourselves, etcetera, et cetera and so forth.
Another conversation foranother day, whether those
people are consciously doing itor just doing it because it
(13:42):
happened to them, whatever.
So anyway, yeah, I know, lookat what happens.
I can't wait to hear what thereaders and the listeners have
to say.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Absolutely.
I think it's beautiful thatboth of you, you know, shared
basically a ritual experience,you know, coming through at this
point, and I think it'sinteresting because I do believe
(14:17):
you know.
I mean, it has been demonizedso much and there's a reason for
that, you know, because it canbe such an empowerment for us.
You know one of the things thatI was reading.
You know your book, and do Ineed to hold it up?
Speaker 1 (14:30):
You're fine, you can hold it up if you want to.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
Just one.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Chakras and the Shadow by Stephanie Michelle.
I love it.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
I love it.
So I was reading your book andyou know, one of the thoughts
that came to my mind is it's soempowering to get a grip on the
shadow side of yourself, all ofthe old gods and goddesses, you
(15:07):
know.
I mean they automaticallybecame demons and taboo spirit
for us to connect with.
And I'm thinking, you know, atleast in our community.
It's, and that's one of thethings that really attracted me
to, you know, neo, know, neil,paganism when I first got turned
on onto it and being aroundthese folks was this like.
(15:28):
It was such an acceptingsociety.
You know, um, and I was lookingaround and I was like every,
just because you're not, youknow, captain of the baseball
team, or you know, because youknow you're not a movie star,
you still have power and I thinkone of the cool things that
both of your books brings out isthat empowerment back to the
(15:54):
people.
Yeah, you know, because we needit right now.
We really really, really need itright now.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
So yeah, I think that's beautiful.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
I saw we were talking about it and I was like I feel
like we're putting something in,you know, into the mix that's
going to help.
You know not and I'm notlimiting to everybody that you
know walks the path, notlimiting to everybody that you
know walks the path like we walkit, just you know.
I mean just our generalpopulation, the people you know.
(16:30):
You say the people and I'mtalking about you know, the
people.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
And our shadow books are throwing something into the
mix that's really well needed,you know, here at this time.
So, Jeffrey Gray, how did yourown shadow work change your life
?
Speaker 3 (16:50):
I think I embraced my shadow at a very young age.
My folks moved around so much Ididn't go to one school for
longer, I mean from 8 to 12, forlonger than a year and a half.
Right, we were always moving.
Sometimes we moved back mysenior.
I went to a high school out inWashington State, my freshman
(17:14):
year and, sure shit, you know, Ihave to go back my senior year
's.
That's a that's a big gap, youknow, especially for that, that
age, age that you're in, um, soI, I'm, I really embraced the
the, the dark, um, you know,through the music, I mean, it
(17:35):
was all you know.
One in the early, you, it wasall you know.
One in the early, you know, itwas Black Sabbath and all of
that stuff.
You know black T-shirts and,and it was really an empowerment
for me because I was, you know,I knew that it wasn't going to
be with these, with these folks,for very long.
So it was, it was just easy.
(17:56):
I spent a lot of time by myself.
It was just easy.
I spent a lot of time by myself.
(18:16):
I got used to being by myselfand you know it reflected in
life after that because I didn'thave any problems, you know,
grabbing a one-way ticket to aband audition up in Havermont,
canada, to go play, you know, upin Canada for a year and a half
, 90 days at a time.
So, yeah, it was, it's alwaysbeen an empowerment to me.
I'm pretty good about callingmyself out on my own shit, you
know, I know.
You know, I mean there, it'snot like I go to sleep every
night like, oh, I don't.
You know, I mean there's,there's things that I I don't
(18:38):
know if I would go as far asregrets because you never know
what.
You know what the path is goingto if I would have done this
differently.
You know, you never know thatthat shit seldom works out.
You know the way, the way youpicture it going down in your
head.
So, yeah, I would say, you knowmy shadow has always been Been
(19:07):
A source of comfort, um, a wayto get away from, you know,
being the new kid.
Because I mean, honestly, whenI was going, you know, through,
uh well, all the way throughjunior high, you know you're the
new kid, you're gonna get in afight.
You know they always test you.
You know, you know they alwaystest you.
So it was.
And then you know you're thenew kid, you're gonna get in a
fight.
You know they always test you.
Oh, you know they always testyou.
So it was.
And then you know the when themusic came in, I was totally
able to immerse myself in thatum, and it's just been, it's
(19:30):
just been really um, a source ofempowerment for me.
It was something that that Icould connect to, even through
the personality traits you know.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
For me, no, I think that go ahead.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Stephanie, I have that song and I'm going to do a
horrible job at saying it orsinging it, but you know that
song, me and my, that's whatcomes across.
And if you don't mind me sayingyou are, um, you know what the
ethereal heart is, the pinkheart, not the green heart, and
(20:13):
the energy system.
You have that pink aura shiningthrough pewter that very pretty
like silver, almost color youknow it's like.
So you have this silver on topof this, like bright pink
shining out of you.
Love it yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
I had to.
I had to tell you.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
I hope you don't mind , that's cool, thank you.
Thank you, yeah, that's cool.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
What I, what I find interesting about that story too
, is if a listener or somebodythat picks up the book, who has
been in the unknown severaltimes maybe your parents were in
the military and you had tomove, you had to constantly test
out different aspects of yourpersonality.
(20:58):
You could reinvent yourself eachtime and I think that that's a
lot of beauty, even thoughthat's hard.
There's a lot of beauty in thatshadow work, because a lot of
times our shadow will come to usbecause the social group that
we are in tells us that's notwhat we do.
We don't eat with our elbows onthe table, we don't say bad
(21:22):
words, we come home at nineo'clock, we're in bed by ten.
All of these things which Imean work in different societies
, but at the end of the day, ifyou keep changing societies,
it's a it's a little bit well,it's really traumatizing and
scary.
Even though you don't take that, you're just like yeah, it was
fun, that's because he's justlike that, I would have been
(21:45):
sitting here crying and then myfamily moved again, you know,
and he's just like it was reallycool, you know.
but that's that pink heart,Because it actually points out
this idea of sometimes we hideour shadow or keep it hidden
because of the stagnant socialgroup that we are in.
(22:08):
What do you guys think aboutthat?
Speaker 2 (22:12):
I absolutely agree with that and I think that's why
I had those experiences, as youknow, satan, because when I was
young, you know, if you thinklike this, you're the devil If
you do.
I mean, I grew up, as you know,in a metaphysical society.
I was always a pagan.
I didn't, you know, become apagan, I was born a pagan, and
(22:34):
so it was very demonized and so,I think, because society was
doing that, I lived very muchout of balance, and what I'm
hearing Jeff say is that he wasable to embrace it and live in
balance and navigate who he was,in the pink, with all of it,
(22:57):
which is a beautiful thingbecause we have so many.
We have a triad of dynamics,you know, and it's very cool.
I love all of it.
I think that all of ourexperiences are electric.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
I agree.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Electric.
I agree, I absolutely agreewith that.
So let's move on to our nextquestion and we'll do the round
robin again how we discoveredour unique path for doing shadow
work.
For me, I would identify myunique path as shamanism.
(23:37):
Unique path as shamanism andhow I discovered that was
working one-on-one with peopleas granddaughter crow.
Now, crows are also taboo.
I mean, we have the raven.
They're kindred.
We have the raven as one of thetaboo animals in the shadow
(23:58):
work.
So it's kind of funny because,because I'm granddaughter crow,
a lot of what would beconsidered love and light
readers if somebody came to themand said I want to do shadow
work, they would say go see,granddaughter crow, we don't
touch the shadow.
You know, go see granddaughtercrow and I'd be like come here,
fat child.
(24:19):
No, I'm just kidding, have acookie.
No, I just I'm playing.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
But our house is made of gingerbread.
Yeah, our house is made ofgingerbread.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
I'm coming over, that's right, that's right.
And so for me I had to find away to relieve their taboo of
approach and their fear of theapproach.
So I thought about it and I'mlike, what would this look like
from a shamanistic perspective?
(24:49):
What would this look like froman organic perspective?
And I remember just standingoutside one time going, oh well
shit, everything has a shadow.
Everything that the light hitshas a shadow.
And my spirit calmed down and Istarted saying that to people
(25:11):
and their spirit calmed down andwent and decided to go along
this journey.
So that's kind of how it's.
More, it takes away thishumanized, demonized,
bastardized, whatever it is, andreally empowers by saying you
are just like the tree, you arejust like the moon, you are just
like you know.
(25:31):
Everything that casts a shadowonly can do so because it's in
the light, and so are you.
So celebrate both sides.
And so that's kind of my storyof how I kind of discovered how
to do my unique path.
Work is as a shaman.
It's like well, just look atthe natural world and realize
(25:54):
that my cat is not ashamed ofjumping up in front of the
screen and my little self shouldnot be ashamed when I do things
like that too.
It's not about shame or blame.
It's really about getting toknow who you are and your
enlightenment, and it's so funnyto me that a lot of the
(26:20):
enlightenment comes through theshadow.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Totally.
I have learned so much by doingthis work.
I have been opened up andenlightened so much by doing
this work.
I, similar to you, found myunique path through my natural
gifts and I have a background inyoga and Reiki and so, working
(26:43):
with the chakras, I've beenworking with them.
I became an ordained minister,an interfaith minister, in 90.
I always get this year wrong.
I think it was 96.
Either way, that's when Ireally started working with the
chakras.
It went because in that path Ibecame a Reiki master and, to be
honest with you, I didn't, Istumbled, I fell into shadow
(27:08):
work, I crashed into it, mud allover the place, and how that
happened.
I shared, you know, the journeythat I love it from now on,
it's journey work.
I shared the journey that I didwith the Rose Garden and it did
.
It took a couple of years and Iwas, I found myself in another
(27:28):
duplicate relationship because Ihaven't done the healing yet
and this one, of course, wasdarker because, you know, I was
trying to recreate some stuff.
I don't know, but I was layingin bed one night and I put my
hands on my heart and I dobelieve this is in my book.
But this is how it occurred tome that I was doing shadow work,
(27:52):
because I didn't even know Iwas doing shadow work and I just
kept going.
I love myself, I love myself, Ilove myself.
I was in a physically abusiverelationship at this time and I
knew that I had underlyingself-hate because of all of that
history and it was subconsciousthat I knew I had this
(28:12):
underlying self-hate.
I had an underlying vibration ofrage.
I had an underlying vibrationof anxiety.
I had an underlying vibrationof anxiety.
I had an underlying vibrationof depression.
I had an underlying vibrationof just all of those things, and
I kept repeating my trauma.
I kept repeating my trauma, andso I was really ready to get out
(28:35):
of it and I just had to startwith my heart.
And I just had to start with Ilove myself, I love myself, I
love myself.
And it took me about six monthsof consistently doing that
every night.
And what was happening which II realized at the time this is
how I realized I was doingshadow work is that all of the
(28:55):
things that I hated about myselfwere like showing up the next
day.
They were.
You know.
I was having situations where itwas like, okay, the old you
would be rageful about this, theold you would choose this, the
old you would do this.
And so every morning when Iwould wake up, I would have some
experience that mirroredself-hatred and I was given a
(29:20):
chance to choose differently,which then translated into
self-love.
And it took six months of doingthat consistently.
And I remember it wasValentine's Day, dude, self-love
, talk about self-love.
It was Valentine's Day and hewas in his rage and he was this
(29:40):
close to my face and he's like Idon't think I can do this
anymore, as he did for fiveyears, you know, before he got
physically violent and I just Iremember looking at him and I
went, ok, get your stuff andleave, and that was the last
time I saw him and my wholeworld turned around and I
literally said to my daughter ohmy God, on Friday, which was
(30:02):
fucking downtime today.
I'm sorry you might have tobleep that off.
I just realized it.
No I said to her.
I said to her, harley, this isthe first time my nervous system
is not rattling, I feelcompletely calm.
And she said because you knowher father, she goes.
Is that because of my dad or isthat because of the guy that
(30:26):
was after him?
And I said I think it's justbecause of everything.
I think I'm just I think I'mgood, my nervous system is good.
It's not him, or him or him.
It's nobody, it's me.
And yeah, it was.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
I didn't even realize it was valentine's day that's
beautiful I absolutely love thatbecause we are recording this
really close to valentine's dayand, um, that's just amazing.
With self-love and everything,transformation too, big time
transformation, reaffirmationand free will to do you get to
(31:06):
decide whether you're going tomake a different choice.
So I really kind of see theshadow as, once again,
self-empowerment.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
Right, right, right, and having those like self
demons pop up every day andhaving to face them head on
changed my world.
A hundred percent changed myworld.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
Love that.
I absolutely love that.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
That's what people need to do.
That's what they need.
You know they need to embracethat and not be afraid of it.
Just, you know.
I mean like, like you know youtalk, we talk in these two
shadow books.
You know you've got to embraceit.
You're going to have to if youwant to change it.
You got to face it and changeit.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
So, jeffrey Gray, do you have an answer on how you
discovered your own unique pathof doing shadow work, based on
your story of always embracingit and can't remember when you
didn't?
Okay, as far as the path goes,you know walk in the walk in the
walk.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
If I'm going to talk, the talk uh, I had.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
When I first I I got turned on to magic witches, you
know, got introduced to awitch's circle, my first witch
at a coffee shop, right, um, gofigure, and a little independent
coffee shop and um got turnedon to the magic and at that time
it was, um, you know, thecircle was, was a nice positive,
(32:44):
you know, um, do unto others asyou would have them do unto you
.
You know the law of three youonly do the good magic, you know
, can't do anything bad.
Um, and I had set up somecandles on my altar at the time
I got turned on to Enochianmagic, right, that was the first
(33:05):
thing I ever got turned on to.
And there was the white pillarand the black pillar.
Set them up, you know, and itwas like I'd light them
occasionally and I didn't thinkmuch of it.
And when I came to my moment ofspiritual enlightenment it was
(33:31):
the most terrifying thing I'veever experienced in my life.
And you know, since then it was, you know, I mean it was scary,
it was.
I heard, and you know I wasliving, I was, I was broke, and
I heard, and you know I wasliving, I was broke, I was
living in a trailer, you know,had gotten divorced and was like
I'm going to do this on my ownand see what it looks like.
And it wasn't very pretty, butyou know, I was getting through
(33:51):
it and, honestly, it's like Ican afford to do this.
You know, most of it is doingstuff on your own.
(34:13):
You know it's up in here was mythoughts at the time.
So it was, you know, a nicealternative to sitting around by
yourself, what you know,flipping through back.
Then you know the remote andjust constantly flipping through
the TV channels all 113 of them.
So I hear something in my itwas a trailer.
So I hear something in mytrailer Somebody's in there,
(34:34):
right, and I hear them tappingacross, you know, from one end
of the trailer, coming next tome.
And you know it woke me up and Iwas terrified.
I mean, I rolled or just kindof poured myself out of bed,
grabbed my gun it wasn't loaded,there was no way I would.
(34:55):
You know I was like, well, I'llpoke them.
They'll see me with the gun andthat's going to deter some of
it and if nothing else, I'mgoing to poke this, this barrel,
try to poke this barrel throughtheir chest.
Um, it was.
It was, you know, it was thatreal.
So I get up and I, you know,finally got myself together
enough to walk through and evenwalk outside, and there was
(35:16):
nothing.
There was nothing and I waslike, okay, I was up for another
three hours, you know, got that45 minutes of sleep before you
have to go to work, and went towork, came back and I was, I was
, I had these, I had thesegoldfish right, just fancy gold
(35:36):
goldfish with big eyes and stuffand Adam in a big tall tank and
I was, uh, learning off theglass in that tank and I saw the
um reflection of the altar inthe glass of the tank.
The time of day was justperfect and I looked down below
(35:58):
the altar and the picture ofmyself playing bass right that
was on the other side of thewindow and on the other side of
the room than the altar.
All of a sudden it was like itwas in a cheap plastic frame and
that's what I heard clappingalong the wall and had fallen
beneath that altar.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
So yeah, yeah, that altar so yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (36:22):
So um, that was you know that that was my mom moment
of enlightenment and I couldtell it was a female inner.
You know what I would callgoddess and energy.
Um and uh, she started comingin, coming in my dreams and it
(36:43):
was.
You know, one of those thingswhere you can't tell.
You can feel your dreams, youcan feel the concussions, you
can feel somebody holding youdown, you can feel somebody
beating on the bed you're layingin.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
You know, terrifying these terrifying dreams that I'm
having.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
I'm like, oh my God, terrifying dreams that I'm
having.
I'm like, oh my god.
And she was a feel that it wasa bog god.
She was always in the water Tothe point to where she had
blonde hair, but it was greenwith algae.
That was how I came to it.
(37:24):
So it was, you know, I mean, itwas very dark, right, you know,
right off the bat with me.
And then, you know, I mean,after that, I think I saw my
first maroon and I was like, oh,this is where I need to be.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
So it just kind of all fell into place with Do you
know that, putting those candlesacross from a reflective
surface you had created, youamplified it.
That's why it came in sointense.
You created a portal andamplified your intention, so you
went.
So that's why she was like OK.
Speaker 3 (38:00):
OK, that makes total sense, because I saw you kind of
brighten up when I mentionedthe glass on the fish tank.
I did not realize that, yeah,it was intense, it was intense
and huh, if it works, if that'sthe reflection it works if
(38:27):
that's the reflection, um, you.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
And so a candle, work with a reflective surface,
mirror or anything reflectivecreates a portal.
It amplifies your intentiongood, bad or otherwise.
Right, so you're opening adoorway by doing that.
So you had a such an intenseexperience because, unbeknownst
to you, you were opening aportal and saying I'm ready,
come on in.
Thankfully, when you say thebog which essentially, when you
(38:51):
were mentioning her, she was,was fun and fine and just like,
I feel like I hope you don'tmind me doing this, but as soon
as you said it I was like oh, hehad a Louisiana lifetime, he
was just calling in his personfrom Louisiana, like it was like
(39:22):
immediate, not which you, I seethe alligator, like your spirit
being with the alligator, likein in love.
I hate to say it that way, butabsolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (39:34):
I love that kind of stuff.
When I was a kid, yeah, I wasalways in the water, always down
at the creek, always at thepond, you know.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (39:46):
Yeah, yeah, that does make sense.
Wow, that's cool.
Speaker 1 (39:49):
Picking up reptiles of all shapes and sizes.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I used to drag stuff that
makes so much sense because theway I see the pewter and the
pink is almost like.
It's like the pewter is thisreptile texture and the pink is
coming through.
All of those like spikes.
Yeah, yeah, exactly that makesso much sense yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
I love it, and so for our listeners.
I want you guys to alsoconsider that we have different
but yet similar stories.
I think that the outcome is allpretty much the same
Empowerment, enlightenment,protection.
The experience is unique to you, so it looks like we're coming
(40:38):
up on time.
It looks like we're coming upon time, stephanie.
Is there any last thing thatyou want to share about this
topic in this episode?
Then we'll hit you, jeff, andthen I'll wrap it up.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
Okay, I just think that there's shadow work is such
an important topic for all ofus and it's so unique for all of
us and I love that you haveinvited me into your space and I
get to do this with you and Ihave this opportunity to spread
(41:12):
this, because I know for me ithas completely transformed my
life.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
Absolutely, and you know, it just makes sense
because we kind of balance eachother out with a lot of this
stuff and add on.
Yet we're coming at it with thesame understanding, but we're
approaching it in different waysto help you, the listener, be
able to go.
Oh well, there's not just oneway.
And in my first initialinterview with Stephanie
(41:43):
Michelle, way back in 2024, weboth, she said on my oh, one
size does not fit all.
And I'm just like you are right, and so it just you're a
perfect fit.
You're a perfect fit, so thankyou.
So, jeff, is there any lastwords that you want to do about
the shadow that you'd like toshare with the listeners?
Speaker 3 (42:05):
I think it's just real important to get to get to
know your shadow, to do the work, and it's it's funny because
when I was reading your book,stephanie, I was like no wonder
these two vibe so well together,you know no wonder.
So yeah, do the work.
You know no wonder, um, so yeah, do the work.
You know, uh, um.
(42:26):
There are a lot of people inthe world right now that are not
.
You know they're.
They're never going to get toknow their shadows because they
hide their spirits, be, uh,behind other beliefs that give
them, give them, you know, anout for having.
You know their shadow doesn'teven exist.
Let's blame it on, let's blameit on Lucifer, or you know.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
Right, right, no, I, yeah, yeah, you know somewhere.
Speaker 3 (42:53):
Yeah, yeah, Give it, give it to somebody else, give
it to something else and walkaway from it.
And I think it's real importantfor people to think for
themselves and to know what isit to know oneself, you know, to
know the universe.
Speaker 1 (43:10):
If you know thyself, you know the universe.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (43:14):
And I'll just leave it with that.
You know, yeah.
Can't top that.
Speaker 1 (43:18):
You can't top that.
I mean knowing the universe.
You can't top that, people,right, right, right.
What I would say is that, onceagain, there's many different
approaches, but if you'relistening to this, I ask you to
be curious and find your ownapproach.
Pick up Chakras and your Shadow, work by Stephanie Michelle.
(43:39):
Pick up Shamanism and yourShadow, written by me, and the
journey, work, written by mybeloved husband, jeffrey Gray.
As scary as it is, it will leadyou to enlightenment.
It will lead you toenlightenment.
So, thank you everybody for onceagain watching.
(43:59):
Please like, subscribe, hit allthe bells and whistles, share
this with people that you want,that you think are going to go.
Oh, that makes a lot of sense.
My best friend, my mom, myhusband, my ex-husband no, I'm
just kidding, don't share withme.
I was just playing.
I was just playing, but anyway,if you are listening to this on
(44:22):
a podcast, please scroll down.
You can text the show.
Yes, you can text the show.
I won't know where you're.
I mean, I think I'll know thegeneral area that you're in, but
I won't know your name or yourphone number.
So you can stay anonymous andor you can let me know who you
are and I would be happy to giveyou a shout-out if you have any
questions for any of us.
(44:44):
We will be back next week withanother episode of Shadow Talk
on Belief, being and Beyond.
Until then, love ya and see youon the flippity flip.
Welcome to Belief, being and Beyond with your host,
granddaughter Crow.
Hi everybody, granddaughterCrow here for yet another
episode of a special series hereon Belief, being and Beyond
called Shadow Talk.
Now, if you've missed out, wehave another video.
This is our second video onthis series and we're going to
(00:23):
end out this series with a live,so keep track of what we're
doing.
I am here with StephanieMichelle, the author of Chakras
and your Shadow Work, and I amGranddaughter Crow.
Last episode we talked aboutjourney work and I said, hey, my
husband, jeffrey Gray, is theone who wrote all of that.
(00:47):
So we have a special guest foryou guys today.
He is Asatru, which means he ison the Norse path, sworn to
Odin, and he is a musician bassplayer, alchemical bass.
He's traveled all aroundAmerica Canada, usa, canada for
(01:08):
years, since he was a teenager,playing in different bass,
guitar bands and all of thatkind of stuff, and now he is my
beloved husband and co-author tomy book Shadows and your Shaman
.
Please welcome, jeffrey Gray.
This is my beloved husband,jeffrey Gray.
(01:31):
What an introduction, huh.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Hey, that was amazing .
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Hello.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
I know.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
So this is really amazing interview.
We in this episode we're goingto kind of give a little bit
more personal stories so thatyou can relate a little bit more
and or just hear our personalstories.
So the first question thatwe're going to get into is how
(02:00):
our own shadow work changed ourlives, how my shadow work
changed my life, how Stephanie'sshadow work changed our lives,
how my shadow work changed mylife, how Stephanie shadow work
changed her life, and then we'llhand it over to Jeffrey Gray.
So I'll just kick it off andsay in this question I keep
thinking about well, when did Istart doing shadow work?
(02:22):
And the answer is I don't know.
But I do remember a verysignificant moment when I was
probably it was probably 10years ago, and it's the one that
sticks out in my mind the mostas actually doing shadow work,
explicitly knowing it was shadowwork.
(02:42):
It was on Samhain, what otherpeople call Halloween, and we
were doing a ritual in ourbackyard and I took the role of
the high priestess.
I wore a cloak, so I didn't seewho was standing in the circle,
and I went around and I justread the energy.
I didn't know who I wasstanding before.
That's a lot of energetic workto do, you know, stephanie.
(03:06):
You know that it's a lot ofenergetic work to do.
And so immediately I goupstairs into my bedroom and I
kind of strip off all of thatgarb and the cloak, trying to
reground and recenter, trying toreground and recenter, and this
image showed up right in frontof me and it was dark and I knew
(03:28):
it was my shadow and I said whyare you haunting me?
You were such a mean bitch.
What do you want from me?
Go away.
You know what she said to me.
Why do you treat me like this?
I love you and I have been yourprotector on multiple occasions
(03:55):
.
And in my mind's eye I saw herprotecting me when I got
attacked when I was 17 in youknow an alleyway by a drunk guy
with a knife.
I got away and I started seeingall of these other things and
she said I'm the one that savedyour life at least five times,
so don't treat me like this.
And I dramatically fell at herfeet because I'm exhausted and
(04:20):
this was overwhelming and Iembraced her as my protector and
she has been with me with astrong voice ever since and it
changed my life because Istopped running away from my
internal protector, even thoughI think that maybe she was mean
sometimes mean sometimes, andthat wasn't the one that I
(04:48):
should have been running awayfrom.
That was the one that embracedme and that she told me that she
loved me and that wasprotecting me.
And she's the side of me that Idon't want to see, because I
was raised a good littleChristian girl and I need to,
you know, be good and nice andsmile and love.
And she was just like no,sometimes you got to be mean.
It saves your life.
Sometimes you've got to standup, whether they see it as mean
(05:08):
or not.
And I was just like.
So.
That's my initial story abouthow my own shadow work really
changed my life, because itchanged my perspective as well.
As it changed not only myperspective about me.
(05:29):
It helped me to embrace mywhole self.
I started feeling so much morecomfortable.
I stopped being afraid ofmyself and or you know, all of
that kind of stuff.
My cat she's trying to get inand tell her story about when
she Hold on.
So that was my cat.
(05:56):
She decided she wanted to jointhis lovely conversation and
tell us how she owns her shadowand how it changed, of course.
So what do you guys think aboutthat?
Speaker 2 (06:09):
I mean, it's pretty well, yeah, I actually think
that is an incredible story andmakes me realize what my shadow
work actually is.
The story that I had preparedtoday is not the story I'm about
to tell you, but what you justshared.
(06:32):
Yeah, put so many puzzle piecestogether for me.
So I have a book it's up in theshelf up there that I wrote
before chakras and shadow workup there, that I wrote before
chakras and shadow work, butit's self-published and it's
called the beast and when I waslittle I had, from as early as I
(06:55):
can remember I had dreams ofSatan We'll call him in the
beginning of my life, satan, andhe started off as a tree on
fire and he would send out theselittle fireballs running after
me.
And then the hell hounds wererunning after me and they were
nightmares and I was, you know,three years old, five years old,
(07:16):
10 years old, 15, 18, my wholelife just dreaming of Satan.
And so I wrote this book calledthe Beast, and in that time I
also had sexual trauma and soyou know, on a psychological
perspective, it was like, oh,were the dreams because of that?
Was that?
You know where's thatentanglement?
(07:38):
And I wound up in a marriagethat kind of mirrored the Beast
and the trauma, and so thatfirst book is all about how I
reinvented my trauma in a and Icalled him the beast.
And then I had this third bookand a half where I wrote letters
(08:04):
from the beast and Iself-published it again but it
was like in the midst of myuntangling and there was poetry
in it, but it's all.
I think there's like 10 pagesthat repeat themselves.
Like it's chaotic that bookletters from the beast, but in
that moment in letters from thebeast moment.
(08:25):
I knew I was the beast, not him,not anyone else.
But I was still in chaos, I wasstill in trauma cycles.
I had that meditation, thatvision, that journey that I
(08:46):
shared with you, the Rose Gardenwhich is in chakras and shadow
work.
And the very first time I wasgifted with that journey, I
unzipped, took off my skin andthrew it in.
It was a big brick oven and Ithrew it in there and I remember
carrying it and it was heavy inthis journey and I threw it in
there and I remember carrying itand it was heavy in this
journey and I threw it in thereand I sobbed and sobbed, and
(09:09):
sobbed.
And ever since that moment and Ididn't even realize this until
you just shared your story butever since that moment I had, I
knew that that was when myshadow work began, but I didn't
realize the mirror of Lucifer,because all of a sudden Lucifer
started showing up in my life,no longer Satan, and I realized
(09:32):
that as a Capricorn, I didn'teven it was not conscious
knowledge that as a Capricorn Iwas the devil in tarot and it
was.
He just kept showing up and hekept showing up and this time he
wasn't, he wasn't scary and hewasn't asking to overcome me.
(09:54):
And he wasn't asking because inthose dreams, part of it was be
my wife, stay with me.
You know all those kinds ofscenarios that they say the
devil does, you know, like,manipulate you, which is why I
put it on my first marriage.
And but in my forties, asLucifer would show up, I
remember he showed up in ahealing and what happens when
(10:18):
I'm doing these energetichealings is when I go to the
person's feet, a deity, a God,somebody always shows up at the
head and it was Lucifer and hewas big and bright and all of
the things.
And we're having thisconversation over this person's
(10:40):
body and he was basically sayingI am you, we are morning light,
we are self-empowerment, wefight for ourselves.
And I was crying and of courseit was relevant to the person
that I was healing and we hadthis beautiful conversation, but
(11:03):
I didn't realize in that moment, and literally until you, I
knew that I had been workingwith him and that he was a
protector and what he did wasfight for your soul and he
fought, he fights, for yourpersonal light and personal
empowerment, but I didn'trealize that I had married those
(11:23):
two things.
No longer was I Satan, I wasnow Lucifer.
So I was Lucifer Morningstarand I am that resolved energy
and not that demonized energy.
And thank you, because that isamazing.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
I love that because you know, a lot of people
bastardize, demonize all of that.
That is Lucifer, when Luciferis the morning star, is the one
that questioned authority, isthe one who said eat from the
(12:04):
tree of the knowledge of goodand evil, all of that kind of
stuff.
And I love that we're talkingabout shadow, because shadow too
is bastardized, demonized,shoved under the rug, when
really it is our morning star.
That's an inspirational.
(12:24):
Yeah, go ahead, Go ahead.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
And what I and I had realized this, but again, I
didn't put it all together untiljust now.
There was a moment in 2022where I once again saw the
hellhounds, but this time in2022, they said to me we're here
for you, we love you, we workwith you, and I was like I was
(12:46):
crying, sobbing, and just what abeautiful gift you just gave me
to be able to put all of thoseexperiences together.
I was going to go somewherecompletely different with it.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Yeah, yeah, this is why we have these conversations
and you know, for the listeners,do your research about the
shadow, about everything thatwe're talking about.
It is taboo, but if you'relistening to this show,
something is making a littlesense that you know this is our
(13:22):
protector.
And it has been given a lot ofnegative connotations, I believe
, because a lot of people don'twant us to question, they don't
want us to protect ourselves, etcetera, et cetera and so forth.
Another conversation foranother day, whether those
people are consciously doing itor just doing it because it
(13:42):
happened to them, whatever.
So anyway, yeah, I know, lookat what happens.
I can't wait to hear what thereaders and the listeners have
to say.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Absolutely.
I think it's beautiful thatboth of you, you know, shared
basically a ritual experience,you know, coming through at this
point, and I think it'sinteresting because I do believe
(14:17):
you know.
I mean, it has been demonizedso much and there's a reason for
that, you know, because it canbe such an empowerment for us.
You know one of the things thatI was reading.
You know your book, and do Ineed to hold it up?
Speaker 1 (14:30):
You're fine, you can hold it up if you want to.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
Just one.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Chakras and the Shadow by Stephanie Michelle.
I love it.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
I love it.
So I was reading your book andyou know, one of the thoughts
that came to my mind is it's soempowering to get a grip on the
shadow side of yourself, all ofthe old gods and goddesses, you
(15:07):
know.
I mean they automaticallybecame demons and taboo spirit
for us to connect with.
And I'm thinking, you know, atleast in our community.
It's, and that's one of thethings that really attracted me
to, you know, neo, know, neil,paganism when I first got turned
on onto it and being aroundthese folks was this like.
(15:28):
It was such an acceptingsociety.
You know, um, and I was lookingaround and I was like every,
just because you're not, youknow, captain of the baseball
team, or you know, because youknow you're not a movie star,
you still have power and I thinkone of the cool things that
both of your books brings out isthat empowerment back to the
(15:54):
people.
Yeah, you know, because we needit right now.
We really really, really need itright now.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
So yeah, I think that's beautiful.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
I saw we were talking about it and I was like I feel
like we're putting something in,you know, into the mix that's
going to help.
You know not and I'm notlimiting to everybody that you
know walks the path, notlimiting to everybody that you
know walks the path like we walkit, just you know.
I mean just our generalpopulation, the people you know.
(16:30):
You say the people and I'mtalking about you know, the
people.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
And our shadow books are throwing something into the
mix that's really well needed,you know, here at this time.
So, Jeffrey Gray, how did yourown shadow work change your life
?
Speaker 3 (16:50):
I think I embraced my shadow at a very young age.
My folks moved around so much Ididn't go to one school for
longer, I mean from 8 to 12, forlonger than a year and a half.
Right, we were always moving.
Sometimes we moved back mysenior.
I went to a high school out inWashington State, my freshman
(17:14):
year and, sure shit, you know, Ihave to go back my senior year
's.
That's a that's a big gap, youknow, especially for that, that
age, age that you're in, um, soI, I'm, I really embraced the
the, the dark, um, you know,through the music, I mean, it
(17:35):
was all you know.
One in the early, you, it wasall you know.
One in the early, you know, itwas Black Sabbath and all of
that stuff.
You know black T-shirts and,and it was really an empowerment
for me because I was, you know,I knew that it wasn't going to
be with these, with these folks,for very long.
So it was, it was just easy.
(17:56):
I spent a lot of time by myself.
It was just easy.
I spent a lot of time by myself.
(18:16):
I got used to being by myselfand you know it reflected in
life after that because I didn'thave any problems, you know,
grabbing a one-way ticket to aband audition up in Havermont,
canada, to go play, you know, upin Canada for a year and a half
, 90 days at a time.
So, yeah, it was, it's alwaysbeen an empowerment to me.
I'm pretty good about callingmyself out on my own shit, you
know, I know.
You know, I mean there, it'snot like I go to sleep every
night like, oh, I don't.
You know, I mean there's,there's things that I I don't
(18:38):
know if I would go as far asregrets because you never know
what.
You know what the path is goingto if I would have done this
differently.
You know, you never know thatthat shit seldom works out.
You know the way, the way youpicture it going down in your
head.
So, yeah, I would say, you knowmy shadow has always been Been
(19:07):
A source of comfort, um, a wayto get away from, you know,
being the new kid.
Because I mean, honestly, whenI was going, you know, through,
uh well, all the way throughjunior high, you know you're the
new kid, you're gonna get in afight.
You know they always test you.
You know, you know they alwaystest you.
So it was.
And then you know you're thenew kid, you're gonna get in a
fight.
You know they always test you.
Oh, you know they always testyou.
So it was.
And then you know the when themusic came in, I was totally
able to immerse myself in thatum, and it's just been, it's
(19:30):
just been really um, a source ofempowerment for me.
It was something that that Icould connect to, even through
the personality traits you know.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
For me, no, I think that go ahead.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Stephanie, I have that song and I'm going to do a
horrible job at saying it orsinging it, but you know that
song, me and my, that's whatcomes across.
And if you don't mind me sayingyou are, um, you know what the
ethereal heart is, the pinkheart, not the green heart, and
(20:13):
the energy system.
You have that pink aura shiningthrough pewter that very pretty
like silver, almost color youknow it's like.
So you have this silver on topof this, like bright pink
shining out of you.
Love it yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
I had to.
I had to tell you.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
I hope you don't mind , that's cool, thank you.
Thank you, yeah, that's cool.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
What I, what I find interesting about that story too
, is if a listener or somebodythat picks up the book, who has
been in the unknown severaltimes maybe your parents were in
the military and you had tomove, you had to constantly test
out different aspects of yourpersonality.
(20:58):
You could reinvent yourself eachtime and I think that that's a
lot of beauty, even thoughthat's hard.
There's a lot of beauty in thatshadow work, because a lot of
times our shadow will come to usbecause the social group that
we are in tells us that's notwhat we do.
We don't eat with our elbows onthe table, we don't say bad
(21:22):
words, we come home at nineo'clock, we're in bed by ten.
All of these things which Imean work in different societies
, but at the end of the day, ifyou keep changing societies,
it's a it's a little bit well,it's really traumatizing and
scary.
Even though you don't take that, you're just like yeah, it was
fun, that's because he's justlike that, I would have been
(21:45):
sitting here crying and then myfamily moved again, you know,
and he's just like it was reallycool, you know.
but that's that pink heart,Because it actually points out
this idea of sometimes we hideour shadow or keep it hidden
because of the stagnant socialgroup that we are in.
(22:08):
What do you guys think aboutthat?
Speaker 2 (22:12):
I absolutely agree with that and I think that's why
I had those experiences, as youknow, satan, because when I was
young, you know, if you thinklike this, you're the devil If
you do.
I mean, I grew up, as you know,in a metaphysical society.
I was always a pagan.
I didn't, you know, become apagan, I was born a pagan, and
(22:34):
so it was very demonized and so,I think, because society was
doing that, I lived very muchout of balance, and what I'm
hearing Jeff say is that he wasable to embrace it and live in
balance and navigate who he was,in the pink, with all of it,
(22:57):
which is a beautiful thingbecause we have so many.
We have a triad of dynamics,you know, and it's very cool.
I love all of it.
I think that all of ourexperiences are electric.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
I agree.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Electric.
I agree, I absolutely agreewith that.
So let's move on to our nextquestion and we'll do the round
robin again how we discoveredour unique path for doing shadow
work.
For me, I would identify myunique path as shamanism.
(23:37):
Unique path as shamanism andhow I discovered that was
working one-on-one with peopleas granddaughter crow.
Now, crows are also taboo.
I mean, we have the raven.
They're kindred.
We have the raven as one of thetaboo animals in the shadow
(23:58):
work.
So it's kind of funny because,because I'm granddaughter crow,
a lot of what would beconsidered love and light
readers if somebody came to themand said I want to do shadow
work, they would say go see,granddaughter crow, we don't
touch the shadow.
You know, go see granddaughtercrow and I'd be like come here,
fat child.
(24:19):
No, I'm just kidding, have acookie.
No, I just I'm playing.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
But our house is made of gingerbread.
Yeah, our house is made ofgingerbread.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
I'm coming over, that's right, that's right.
And so for me I had to find away to relieve their taboo of
approach and their fear of theapproach.
So I thought about it and I'mlike, what would this look like
from a shamanistic perspective?
(24:49):
What would this look like froman organic perspective?
And I remember just standingoutside one time going, oh well
shit, everything has a shadow.
Everything that the light hitshas a shadow.
And my spirit calmed down and Istarted saying that to people
(25:11):
and their spirit calmed down andwent and decided to go along
this journey.
So that's kind of how it's.
More, it takes away thishumanized, demonized,
bastardized, whatever it is, andreally empowers by saying you
are just like the tree, you arejust like the moon, you are just
like you know.
(25:31):
Everything that casts a shadowonly can do so because it's in
the light, and so are you.
So celebrate both sides.
And so that's kind of my storyof how I kind of discovered how
to do my unique path.
Work is as a shaman.
It's like well, just look atthe natural world and realize
(25:54):
that my cat is not ashamed ofjumping up in front of the
screen and my little self shouldnot be ashamed when I do things
like that too.
It's not about shame or blame.
It's really about getting toknow who you are and your
enlightenment, and it's so funnyto me that a lot of the
(26:20):
enlightenment comes through theshadow.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Totally.
I have learned so much by doingthis work.
I have been opened up andenlightened so much by doing
this work.
I, similar to you, found myunique path through my natural
gifts and I have a background inyoga and Reiki and so, working
(26:43):
with the chakras, I've beenworking with them.
I became an ordained minister,an interfaith minister, in 90.
I always get this year wrong.
I think it was 96.
Either way, that's when Ireally started working with the
chakras.
It went because in that path Ibecame a Reiki master and, to be
honest with you, I didn't, Istumbled, I fell into shadow
(27:08):
work, I crashed into it, mud allover the place, and how that
happened.
I shared, you know, the journeythat I love it from now on,
it's journey work.
I shared the journey that I didwith the Rose Garden and it did
.
It took a couple of years and Iwas, I found myself in another
(27:28):
duplicate relationship because Ihaven't done the healing yet
and this one, of course, wasdarker because, you know, I was
trying to recreate some stuff.
I don't know, but I was layingin bed one night and I put my
hands on my heart and I dobelieve this is in my book.
But this is how it occurred tome that I was doing shadow work,
(27:52):
because I didn't even know Iwas doing shadow work and I just
kept going.
I love myself, I love myself, Ilove myself.
I was in a physically abusiverelationship at this time and I
knew that I had underlyingself-hate because of all of that
history and it was subconsciousthat I knew I had this
(28:12):
underlying self-hate.
I had an underlying vibration ofrage.
I had an underlying vibrationof anxiety.
I had an underlying vibrationof anxiety.
I had an underlying vibrationof depression.
I had an underlying vibrationof just all of those things, and
I kept repeating my trauma.
I kept repeating my trauma, andso I was really ready to get out
(28:35):
of it and I just had to startwith my heart.
And I just had to start with Ilove myself, I love myself, I
love myself.
And it took me about six monthsof consistently doing that
every night.
And what was happening which II realized at the time this is
how I realized I was doingshadow work is that all of the
(28:55):
things that I hated about myselfwere like showing up the next
day.
They were.
You know.
I was having situations where itwas like, okay, the old you
would be rageful about this, theold you would choose this, the
old you would do this.
And so every morning when Iwould wake up, I would have some
experience that mirroredself-hatred and I was given a
(29:20):
chance to choose differently,which then translated into
self-love.
And it took six months of doingthat consistently.
And I remember it wasValentine's Day, dude, self-love
, talk about self-love.
It was Valentine's Day and hewas in his rage and he was this
(29:40):
close to my face and he's like Idon't think I can do this
anymore, as he did for fiveyears, you know, before he got
physically violent and I just Iremember looking at him and I
went, ok, get your stuff andleave, and that was the last
time I saw him and my wholeworld turned around and I
literally said to my daughter ohmy God, on Friday, which was
(30:02):
fucking downtime today.
I'm sorry you might have tobleep that off.
I just realized it.
No I said to her.
I said to her, harley, this isthe first time my nervous system
is not rattling, I feelcompletely calm.
And she said because you knowher father, she goes.
Is that because of my dad or isthat because of the guy that
(30:26):
was after him?
And I said I think it's justbecause of everything.
I think I'm just I think I'mgood, my nervous system is good.
It's not him, or him or him.
It's nobody, it's me.
And yeah, it was.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
I didn't even realize it was valentine's day that's
beautiful I absolutely love thatbecause we are recording this
really close to valentine's dayand, um, that's just amazing.
With self-love and everything,transformation too, big time
transformation, reaffirmationand free will to do you get to
(31:06):
decide whether you're going tomake a different choice.
So I really kind of see theshadow as, once again,
self-empowerment.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
Right, right, right, and having those like self
demons pop up every day andhaving to face them head on
changed my world.
A hundred percent changed myworld.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
Love that.
I absolutely love that.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
That's what people need to do.
That's what they need.
You know they need to embracethat and not be afraid of it.
Just, you know.
I mean like, like you know youtalk, we talk in these two
shadow books.
You know you've got to embraceit.
You're going to have to if youwant to change it.
You got to face it and changeit.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
So, jeffrey Gray, do you have an answer on how you
discovered your own unique pathof doing shadow work, based on
your story of always embracingit and can't remember when you
didn't?
Okay, as far as the path goes,you know walk in the walk in the
walk.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
If I'm going to talk, the talk uh, I had.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
When I first I I got turned on to magic witches, you
know, got introduced to awitch's circle, my first witch
at a coffee shop, right, um, gofigure, and a little independent
coffee shop and um got turnedon to the magic and at that time
it was, um, you know, thecircle was, was a nice positive,
(32:44):
you know, um, do unto others asyou would have them do unto you
.
You know the law of three youonly do the good magic, you know
, can't do anything bad.
Um, and I had set up somecandles on my altar at the time
I got turned on to Enochianmagic, right, that was the first
(33:05):
thing I ever got turned on to.
And there was the white pillarand the black pillar.
Set them up, you know, and itwas like I'd light them
occasionally and I didn't thinkmuch of it.
And when I came to my moment ofspiritual enlightenment it was
(33:31):
the most terrifying thing I'veever experienced in my life.
And you know, since then it was, you know, I mean it was scary,
it was.
I heard, and you know I wasliving, I was, I was broke, and
I heard, and you know I wasliving, I was broke, I was
living in a trailer, you know,had gotten divorced and was like
I'm going to do this on my ownand see what it looks like.
And it wasn't very pretty, butyou know, I was getting through
(33:51):
it and, honestly, it's like Ican afford to do this.
You know, most of it is doingstuff on your own.
(34:13):
You know it's up in here was mythoughts at the time.
So it was, you know, a nicealternative to sitting around by
yourself, what you know,flipping through back.
Then you know the remote andjust constantly flipping through
the TV channels all 113 of them.
So I hear something in my itwas a trailer.
So I hear something in mytrailer Somebody's in there,
(34:34):
right, and I hear them tappingacross, you know, from one end
of the trailer, coming next tome.
And you know it woke me up and Iwas terrified.
I mean, I rolled or just kindof poured myself out of bed,
grabbed my gun it wasn't loaded,there was no way I would.
(34:55):
You know I was like, well, I'llpoke them.
They'll see me with the gun andthat's going to deter some of
it and if nothing else, I'mgoing to poke this, this barrel,
try to poke this barrel throughtheir chest.
Um, it was.
It was, you know, it was thatreal.
So I get up and I, you know,finally got myself together
enough to walk through and evenwalk outside, and there was
(35:16):
nothing.
There was nothing and I waslike, okay, I was up for another
three hours, you know, got that45 minutes of sleep before you
have to go to work, and went towork, came back and I was, I was
, I had these, I had thesegoldfish right, just fancy gold
(35:36):
goldfish with big eyes and stuffand Adam in a big tall tank and
I was, uh, learning off theglass in that tank and I saw the
um reflection of the altar inthe glass of the tank.
The time of day was justperfect and I looked down below
(35:58):
the altar and the picture ofmyself playing bass right that
was on the other side of thewindow and on the other side of
the room than the altar.
All of a sudden it was like itwas in a cheap plastic frame and
that's what I heard clappingalong the wall and had fallen
beneath that altar.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
So yeah, yeah, that altar so yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (36:22):
So um, that was you know that that was my mom moment
of enlightenment and I couldtell it was a female inner.
You know what I would callgoddess and energy.
Um and uh, she started comingin, coming in my dreams and it
(36:43):
was.
You know, one of those thingswhere you can't tell.
You can feel your dreams, youcan feel the concussions, you
can feel somebody holding youdown, you can feel somebody
beating on the bed you're layingin.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
You know, terrifying these terrifying dreams that I'm
having.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
I'm like, oh my God, terrifying dreams that I'm
having.
I'm like, oh my god.
And she was a feel that it wasa bog god.
She was always in the water Tothe point to where she had
blonde hair, but it was greenwith algae.
That was how I came to it.
(37:24):
So it was, you know, I mean, itwas very dark, right, you know,
right off the bat with me.
And then, you know, I mean,after that, I think I saw my
first maroon and I was like, oh,this is where I need to be.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
So it just kind of all fell into place with Do you
know that, putting those candlesacross from a reflective
surface you had created, youamplified it.
That's why it came in sointense.
You created a portal andamplified your intention, so you
went.
So that's why she was like OK.
Speaker 3 (38:00):
OK, that makes total sense, because I saw you kind of
brighten up when I mentionedthe glass on the fish tank.
I did not realize that, yeah,it was intense, it was intense
and huh, if it works, if that'sthe reflection it works if
(38:27):
that's the reflection, um, you.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
And so a candle, work with a reflective surface,
mirror or anything reflectivecreates a portal.
It amplifies your intentiongood, bad or otherwise.
Right, so you're opening adoorway by doing that.
So you had a such an intenseexperience because, unbeknownst
to you, you were opening aportal and saying I'm ready,
come on in.
Thankfully, when you say thebog which essentially, when you
(38:51):
were mentioning her, she was,was fun and fine and just like,
I feel like I hope you don'tmind me doing this, but as soon
as you said it I was like oh, hehad a Louisiana lifetime, he
was just calling in his personfrom Louisiana, like it was like
(39:22):
immediate, not which you, I seethe alligator, like your spirit
being with the alligator, likein in love.
I hate to say it that way, butabsolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (39:34):
I love that kind of stuff.
When I was a kid, yeah, I wasalways in the water, always down
at the creek, always at thepond, you know.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (39:46):
Yeah, yeah, that does make sense.
Wow, that's cool.
Speaker 1 (39:49):
Picking up reptiles of all shapes and sizes.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I used to drag stuff that
makes so much sense because theway I see the pewter and the
pink is almost like.
It's like the pewter is thisreptile texture and the pink is
coming through.
All of those like spikes.
Yeah, yeah, exactly that makesso much sense yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
I love it, and so for our listeners.
I want you guys to alsoconsider that we have different
but yet similar stories.
I think that the outcome is allpretty much the same
Empowerment, enlightenment,protection.
The experience is unique to you, so it looks like we're coming
(40:38):
up on time.
It looks like we're coming upon time, stephanie.
Is there any last thing thatyou want to share about this
topic in this episode?
Then we'll hit you, jeff, andthen I'll wrap it up.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
Okay, I just think that there's shadow work is such
an important topic for all ofus and it's so unique for all of
us and I love that you haveinvited me into your space and I
get to do this with you and Ihave this opportunity to spread
(41:12):
this, because I know for me ithas completely transformed my
life.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
Absolutely, and you know, it just makes sense
because we kind of balance eachother out with a lot of this
stuff and add on.
Yet we're coming at it with thesame understanding, but we're
approaching it in different waysto help you, the listener, be
able to go.
Oh well, there's not just oneway.
And in my first initialinterview with Stephanie
(41:43):
Michelle, way back in 2024, weboth, she said on my oh, one
size does not fit all.
And I'm just like you are right, and so it just you're a
perfect fit.
You're a perfect fit, so thankyou.
So, jeff, is there any lastwords that you want to do about
the shadow that you'd like toshare with the listeners?
Speaker 3 (42:05):
I think it's just real important to get to get to
know your shadow, to do the work, and it's it's funny because
when I was reading your book,stephanie, I was like no wonder
these two vibe so well together,you know no wonder.
So yeah, do the work.
You know no wonder, um, so yeah, do the work.
You know, uh, um.
(42:26):
There are a lot of people inthe world right now that are not
.
You know they're.
They're never going to get toknow their shadows because they
hide their spirits, be, uh,behind other beliefs that give
them, give them, you know, anout for having.
You know their shadow doesn'teven exist.
Let's blame it on, let's blameit on Lucifer, or you know.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
Right, right, no, I, yeah, yeah, you know somewhere.
Speaker 3 (42:53):
Yeah, yeah, Give it, give it to somebody else, give
it to something else and walkaway from it.
And I think it's real importantfor people to think for
themselves and to know what isit to know oneself, you know, to
know the universe.
Speaker 1 (43:10):
If you know thyself, you know the universe.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (43:14):
And I'll just leave it with that.
You know, yeah.
Can't top that.
Speaker 1 (43:18):
You can't top that.
I mean knowing the universe.
You can't top that, people,right, right, right.
What I would say is that, onceagain, there's many different
approaches, but if you'relistening to this, I ask you to
be curious and find your ownapproach.
Pick up Chakras and your Shadow, work by Stephanie Michelle.
(43:39):
Pick up Shamanism and yourShadow, written by me, and the
journey, work, written by mybeloved husband, jeffrey Gray.
As scary as it is, it will leadyou to enlightenment.
It will lead you toenlightenment.
So, thank you everybody for onceagain watching.
(43:59):
Please like, subscribe, hit allthe bells and whistles, share
this with people that you want,that you think are going to go.
Oh, that makes a lot of sense.
My best friend, my mom, myhusband, my ex-husband no, I'm
just kidding, don't share withme.
I was just playing.
I was just playing, but anyway,if you are listening to this on
(44:22):
a podcast, please scroll down.
You can text the show.
Yes, you can text the show.
I won't know where you're.
I mean, I think I'll know thegeneral area that you're in, but
I won't know your name or yourphone number.
So you can stay anonymous andor you can let me know who you
are and I would be happy to giveyou a shout-out if you have any
questions for any of us.
(44:44):
We will be back next week withanother episode of Shadow Talk
on Belief, being and Beyond.
Until then, love ya and see youon the flippity flip.
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