March 7, 2023 • 25 mins
We all need a good night sleep every night and a solid circadian rhythm. But how do we optimize our sleep, especially if one happens to be a cancer patient?
Sleep disturbances for a cancer patient (and even the average person sometimes) can be numerous, including:
- racing thoughts
- emotional trauma
- anxiety, maybe even depression
- side-effects of medication
- physical stress
- even bad technology habits and EMF waves
Join me today as I chat with Jacqueline Genova of Well N Strong. Jacqueline will talk about the various sleep disturbances that affect people and she'll share tips and resources to help improve sleep quality and sleep habits. Today's episode holds helpful information for cancer patients, caregivers or anyone looking to improve their quality of sleep for better health!
Connect with Jacqueline at Well N Strong:
https://wellnstrong.com/
Suggested Resource Links:
- Safe Sleeve - EMF protection for cell phones
- Amazon - sad light (options)
- MITO - red lights
- JOOVV - red and infrared lights
- BLOG: Dr. Daniel Amen - This is How Alcohol Disrupts Your Sleep
- Uriel Pharmacy - homeopathy products
- Helios Homeopathy - products
- PODCAST: Believe Big with Mark McKibben of Uriel Pharmacy
- PODCAST: Believe Big with Susie Larson, Healing Strong
- LINK: An Integrative Approach to Breast Cancer (a FREE guide)
Send us Fan Mail! Click here >
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ivelisse Page (00:06):
Hi, I'm Ivelisse Page and thanks for listening to
the Believe Big podcast, theshow where we take a deep dive
into your healing with healthexperts, integrative
practitioners, biblical faithleaders, and cancer thrivers
from around the globe.
(00:34):
Welcome to today's episode onthe Believe Big podcast.
My name is Ivelisse Page andit's an honor to spend this time
with you.
On today's episode, we are goingto be talking with Jacqueline
Genova from Well N Strong aboutone of the most important, and
yet overlooked aspects of ourhealth, sleep.
A good night's rest can have aprofound impact on our physical
(00:58):
and mental wellbeing.
Jacqueline is a certifiedholistic nutritionist and
wellness writer who ispassionate about healing through
integrative medicine.
She resorted to holistic healingapproaches to resolve some of
her own health problems and tohelp her mom battle cancer.
She is a graduate of BabsonCollege where she researched and
(01:18):
wrote a thesis that advocatedintegrative medicine as an
alternative to conventionalcancer treatment.
She developed a passion to sharewhat she learned with others
that led to her founding of WellN Strong.
She believes in a holisticapproach to wellness that
addresses the root causes ofillness and not the suppression
of symptoms.
(01:39):
Welcome, Jacqueline to the show.
Jacqueline Genova (01:41):
Ivelisse, thank you so much.
I am so excited to be here andchat with you.
I know we had first connected, Iwanna say, back in October
through the Healing StrongPodcast, but thank you so much
for inviting me.
I am a huge fan of yours, ofBelieve Big and of this podcast,
so looking forward to chatting.
Ivelisse Page (01:58):
we're so grateful for you.
I know as an incredible writerand what you do at Well N
Strong, I know you have manywonderful health tips, and so
can you share your favorite withus?
Jacqueline Genova (02:10):
Absolutely.
This is my favorite question.
I look forward to all of yourinterviewee's answers whenever I
hear your new episodes eachweek.
But I would say mine is do notunderestimate the power of your
mind or the words you speak.
So, we're living in this timeright now where we are just
tapping into the incrediblescience of the power of our
thoughts in influencing our veryown biology.
(02:32):
There's been studies that haveshown our thoughts are able to
change not only our brain, butalso our cells, and even our
gene expression, which isincredibly fascinating.
And one thing I really loveabout this is the more I read
studies like these, the more I'mable to draw connections and see
the real life applications ofwhat scripture has already said
about this that life and deathare in the power of the tongue.
(02:54):
So with that, I would just sayto focus on speaking good things
over yourself, over your healingjourney.
I personally am a huge fan ofbiblical affirmations.
I'm always on my mom to say themevery morning, but just speaking
the Word over yourself becausethere's truly so much power in
that.
Ivelisse Page (03:10):
Yes, a hundred percent.
And it says that His Word isactive.
So it's not something that waswritten so long ago and it
doesn't apply to today.
You can read the same verse andit can have a different meaning
to you because God's spirit willspeak to you.
And tell you what you need tohear that day.
And so I love that tip.
And that's one thing that I didevery day during my cancer
(03:32):
journey, and I know it played ahuge role in allowing my body to
be in rest and repair modeversus that fight and flight,
because of fear.
So thank you for sharing thattip.
So what are some common sleepchallenges faced by cancer
patients that you have heard of?
Jacqueline Genova (03:50):
That's a great question, Ivelisse, so
studies have shown that nearlyhalf of all cancer patients have
sleep related problems duringtreatment.
I think there's a twofold answerto that.
First you have the mental,emotional side where we can
probably assume there's a goodchance that the cancer patient
may be experiencing increase offeelings of anxiety or
depression that will be relatedto their diagnosis.
(04:12):
Racing thoughts, emotionaltrauma, those can all be major
barriers to a good night's rest.
And then secondly, there's thephysical aspect, right?
Where a patient may beexperiencing disrupted sleep due
to the side effects oftreatments, certainly
medications they may be taking.
Physical stress obviously is ahuge one.
and other factors.
Ivelisse Page (04:32):
Yeah, so what have you found in your research
when you do your writings as faras some things that can help
patients who are struggling withsleep?
Jacqueline Genova (04:41):
We could have a whole separate episode on
this.
Hugely passionate about thistopic, and it's funny, the irony
is, last night I didn't actuallyget the best night of sleep, but
probably around two o'clock Iwas like, all right, I'm
chatting with Ivelisse tomorrow.
I have all these tips.
What can I start to implementnow?
And what I did helped, so I'mspeaking firsthand experience
here but I'd say my mostimportant one for sleep hygiene
(05:03):
is to get exposure to sunlightfirst thing in the morning.
So right when you get up, andthat is because our circadian
rhythms are tied to darkness andlight.
The problem is that most peopleare out of sync.
So one way to get back on trackis to spend 10 to 20 minutes in
bright sunlight again, firstthing when you wake up in the
morning.
At a high level, that brightlight tells the body to suppress
(05:25):
melatonin production andincrease cortisol production,
which is the hormone that helpsus get up.
In addition to also increasingour serotonin, and we won't get
too granular, but eventually thepineal gland metabolizes
serotonin into melatonin, andthat's what helps us naturally
fall asleep at night.
My second tip is to avoidartificial blue light and bright
(05:46):
lights in the evening.
I'm sure you're very familiarwith this.
We all struggle with it, myselfincluded.
I think that's why I had a bitof a difficulty falling asleep
last night.
But it's really critical if youwant to optimize your sleep
cycle.
They've done studies on thisthat have shown very clearly
that you know when you exposeyour eyes to light at night not
only is there a delay inmelatonin onset, but there's
(06:09):
less melatonin secreted duringthe night and there is more
sleep inertia the next morning.
So sleep inertia is what Iexperienced this morning where
your alarm clock goes off, timeto get up and you're like, okay,
I don't wanna get up.
So scrolling through your phone,being on that computer, those
are some of the worst things todo right before bed but
recognizing that most peoplewill still probably do this, I
(06:31):
think to help mitigateartificial light, you can use
blue light blocking glasses.
Those have been very helpful forme.
I think I recall you chattingabout, I forget which company
that had the different lightbulbs as well that people use
before bed, like the amberlights, the red lights.
They've also been shown topromote good sleep.
But ideally if you could justshut off the screens an hour
before bed, I think that'speople's best bets.
(06:53):
And in that same vein, turn offWIFI at night.
Ivelisse Page (06:57):
How does one do that?
I know, like for me, I haveXfinity and I can go on that app
and turn it off but some peoplehave a, shut off, like a switch
at their modem.
What are some ways for peoplewho aren't familiar or know that
they can actually turn off theirWIFI, have you found simple ways
that they could do that?
Jacqueline Genova (07:16):
That's a great question.
I was actually trying to figureout how to set a timer with my
own company, but unfortunately,because I live in an apartment
that's limited with what theycan do.
So I basically just unplug myWIFI, every night right before I
go to sleep.
And certainly some peoplelistening might be saying, what
does WIFI have to do with mysleep?
But it has a massive impact, asstudies have shown that EMF
(07:38):
exposure has very negativeeffects on our bodies when it
comes to DNA repair.
And because most of our DNArepair occurs while we sleep,
shut off all sources.
So, I mean, if you could set upa timer with your provider to
just cut everything off at10:00, 10:30, whenever you go to
sleep, that's definitely mostideal.
Certainly some people also relyon their phones for their
(07:59):
alarms, like myself.
So making sure your phone is onairplane mode before you go to
sleep is helpful.
I'm also a huge fan of radiationprotecting technology like Safe
Sleeve.
I have a Safe Sleeve phoneprotector.
Ivelisse Page (08:11):
And I've heard someone, one of our doctors said
that they actually, you know thetimers use it Christmas time for
your lights that you can use inyour home?
They connected their modem tothat.
They plug it right into thereand then they set the time so
it's shut off.
And that way you don't have togo manually turn it on and off
each time.
Jacqueline Genova (08:28):
It's funny you mentioned that I actually
have one for my porch lights andI had tried to apply it to my
WIFI, but again, nature ofliving in an apartment.
But that's definitely anothergreat alternative.
Ivelisse Page (08:38):
That's great.
And then you also mentionedabout light.
What about for people who arenot in like sunny Florida or
California or Arizona, when it'scloudy.
Believe Big home office is inBaltimore and it's cloudy this
time of year.
So what kind of light or whatare some other options that you
can do to get that sunlight inthe morning that you need?
Jacqueline Genova (09:00):
I have quite a few friends in Seattle,
Washington where every day israining.
I will say though that Red lightis huge.
There's also a light Amazonsells.
I can't recall the name.
I think it's like mood light orsad sad light for people with
Seasonal Effective Disorder.
So folks can use those when youwake up again, stand in front of
that red light.
I have a one from Mito that Ireally like 10 to 15 minutes
(09:22):
every day, first thing in themorning.
I also think it's important torecognize that you don't
necessarily need to havesunlight to get that exposure
that you need.
So just again, being outside,there are so many different
factors of light exposure thatjust penetrate ourselves outside
of even just looking at the sun.
And again, there's a whole otherscientific explanation for that.
(09:44):
But being outside, whether ornot, it's very sunny that day or
cloudy can, can still serve itspurpose in terms of helping to
optimize your circadian rhythm.
Ivelisse Page (09:53):
Yeah, I agree.
We just recently got a puppy andhe gets us up at 5 45 every
morning, and that's my one plus,when I go outside and have my
coat on or my shawl on and Ijust face the sun and it's a
reminder, one, face the sun,God, and just say, Lord, thank
you for today, even though I'mtired of taking this puppy out
(10:15):
right now.
Jacqueline Genova (10:16):
Absolutely.
Ivelisse Page (10:17):
I am grateful for a new day.
And then you're right, thatlight just really helps to wake
you up.
I also have the Mito, red lighttherapy light and love, love
theirs.
I used to have a Joovv light.
That was great.
But, we're gonna actually do apodcast on red light therapy cuz
it has so many benefits.
So I heard, and this is aanother topic that we're gonna
(10:38):
be discussing in the future, butI heard that alcohol, even one
glass a day plays a largenegative role in the quality of
sleep.
What have you discovered aboutthat?
Jacqueline Genova (10:47):
Yeah, it's funny, I listened to a podcast
yesterday on this and theybasically said there is no safe
level of alcohol when it comesto getting a good night's sleep.
So I know there's beenconflicting research on red
wine, for example, can have somepositive health effects with the
antioxidants and polyphenolsand, that's all well and good,
but again, when it comes tosleeping and optimizing your
sleep cycle, no alcohol is thebest alcohol and I firmly stand
(11:11):
by that.
Certainly, for people who dochoose to imbibe I think make
sure that your last drink is atleast three to four hours before
you put your head on the pillow.
I think that's definitely a goodpractice.
But overall, I would sayavoidance is the best.
Ivelisse Page (11:26):
Yeah.
Dr.
Amen.
out in California has done a lotof research on it, and he's a
brain specialist.
And you see the MRIs of someonewho has been drinking and then
stopped drinking, and thensomeone who's never drank.
And it is amazing, the health ofthe brain and how it's impacted
by alcohol, let alone in theUnited States, it's so filled
with chemicals and pesticidesfrom the grapes and the wine how
(11:49):
it's produced.
So outside of the toxins thatcould be in it, you know the
negative effects on our brainand our sleep should be
something that everyone shouldconsider.
Can sleep disturbances affectcancer treatment outcomes?
Jacqueline Genova (12:02):
Absolutely.
And the simple answer to that isthat, sleep is one of the most
powerful regulators of ourimmune system.
I recall reading one study thattook a group of healthy adults,
limited them to four hours ofsleep for one night, and found
that their natural killer cellactivity dropped by 70%.
And that is very scary.
For those of you who arelistening who aren't familiar
(12:24):
with natural killer cells, theyplay a pivotal function in
cancer immune surveillance.
So you could think of thesecells, as the body's first line
of defense in being able torecognize and eradicate
malignant cells.
Certainly with any type ofcancer treatment, you want your
immune system to be in tip topshape, especially if you're
pursuing the conventional route,which comes with you know,
(12:45):
severe side effects ofimmunosuppression.
So really wanna be prioritizinghigh quality sleep.
Research shows that the immunesystem needs actually nine and a
half hours of sleep in totaldarkness to recharge completely.
Ivelisse Page (12:59):
Wow.
Jacqueline Genova (12:59):
That is well above what most folks, cancer
and non-cancer patients aregetting each night.
So something to think about.
Ivelisse Page (13:06):
Wow, that's incredible.
You hear that about teenagerstoo.
They say, oh, at least we getseven to eight hours of sleep.
Yep.
But they need so much more, andthat's amazing, we do as well.
I interrupted your tips on whatare some other hygiene tools
that people can use to improvetheir quality of sleep?
And you mentioned light and thenturning off your WIFI.
(13:26):
Did you have any others youwanted to share before I moved
on?
Jacqueline Genova (13:29):
Sure.
In terms of actual like naturalremedies, so things like
supplements and herbs, I am allabout that.
I think one very importantsupplement that people should
consider including is magnesium.
Studies have shown thatmagnesium helps with sleep
because it calms the mind bysupporting the production of a
neurotransmitter called GABA.
You can certainly increase yourmagnesium through nutrition, so
(13:52):
focus on eating things likegreen, leafy vegetables, nuts
and seeds, pure dark chocolateand avocados are my two favorite
magnesium rich food sources.
I have those every single day,as does my mom.
You can also opt for magnesiumsupplements, so in general,
magnesium glycinate andmagnesium citrate are best
absorbed by the body.
I know there's so many differentforms out there, so those are
(14:14):
probably the most common onestaken for sleep.
But certainly with that, alwayscheck with your doctor before
introducing any new supplements.
I know cancer patients are onquite a few of those already.
Magnesium and then aromatherapy.
I am a huge fan of essentialoils, Ivelisse.
I probably have about 10 rightnow, just sitting on my desk
(14:34):
that I use almost on a dailybasis, but they're wonderful.
Ivelisse Page (14:39):
Yeah, I agree.
There's so many benefits tothem.
And the magnesium, I hear thatmost Americans are deficient in
it, and we don't even realizethat.
I'm one that takes magnesiumevery night before bed.
And that has really helped notonly my sleep, but also my
hormone levels.
As I'm entering in that agewhere, you know, balancing all
those wonderful hormones, sothat was a huge role.
Jacqueline Genova (15:02):
Yeah.
And one thing too I love, andthat's the beauty with natural
medicine, is a lot of these,quote unquote, like treatments
or prescriptions, notnecessarily prescriptions, but
remedies rather have twofoldpurposes, so they boost your
immune system.
But also for a cancer patient,they have anti-cancer effects.
And again, examples of those areeven essential oils.
So they promote solid sleep, butthey've also been shown to have
(15:25):
anti-cancer properties, in termsof like helping the immune
system identify cancer cells inthe body.
Frankincense and geranium haveactually been shown to stop or
suppress tumor progression,which is fascinating, and
turmeric as well.
So again, those are some that I,I include in my mom's treatment
protocol.
And melatonin is another exampleof something that has the
(15:45):
twofold purpose.
Obviously you've heard of theconnection with melatonin and
cancer.
So there's patients that take upto 20 milligrams a night of
melatonin just again to helpprevent metastasis and helps to
promote good sleep.
So a lot of great benefits.
Ivelisse Page (16:00):
Yes.
And I'm one of those, and eventhough I'm 14 years out from my
cancer, when I've been workingwith my integrative
practitioner, that's one of thethings that she also mentioned
for balancing my hormones andmaking sure I'm sleeping well.
And at first I was like, wow, 20milligrams! But under a medical
guidance, I always just say,check with your practitioner.
Just because I share somethingor Jacqueline shares something.
(16:22):
Always check with yourpractitioners to make sure that
it's best for you as anindividual, as they can look at
your blood work and see exactlythe amount you need and what's
best for you.
But I'm glad that you mentionedthat as well for sleep.
Jacqueline Genova (16:35):
Do you use homeopathy?
Cause I recall in one episodeyou chatting about it.
I am a huge fan.
I actually was introduced to itabout a little less than a year
ago, and it's become a newpassion of mine.
Ivelisse Page (16:46):
Yes, I've been using homeopathic remedies since
my kids were babies.
My oldest now is almost 30 yearsold, and I was introduced to it
when I was pregnant with him.
And it is amazing all the thingsthat homeopathic remedies do.
I love the products from UrielPharmacy.
That's where I get all of mine.
And I use a lot of their bodyoils.
(17:10):
And of course, so many otheraspects of my cancer journey,
was used with homeopathicremedies as well.
Really an important role.
It can also help with sleep andso many other things too, yes,
definitely a big win on thatside.
Jacqueline Genova (17:24):
Coffea cruda, Ignatia are my two favorites.
Ivelisse Page (17:27):
Which one?
Same'em again.
Jacqueline Genova (17:29):
Coffea cruda, I think that's how you pronounce
it in like a 60 potency and thenignatia to help with anxiety.
I also love Uriel and Boron andHelios are my top three sources
for homeopathy.
Ivelisse Page (17:41):
Yes.
And what's so great about it isyou could take the whole bottle
and it wouldn't harm you.
You can find'em in, grocerystores like Sprouts or Wegmans,
wherever you are in pharmaciesnow, they have the little blue
vials.
If anyone's interested, we'llput in the link to our
homeopathic episode that I didwith Mark McKibben a few weeks
back.
Jacqueline Genova (18:01):
When I have friends come over, I have a
whole cabinet just dedicated toall of my remedies.
It's like a mini pharmacy, andthey're like, what is this?
But it takes a while to explain.
And then once I do, they becomeinterested.
But for those who haven't heardor checked it out, I highly
recommend exploring it.
It's an incredible field.
Ivelisse Page (18:17):
Yeah.
Wonderful.
So you mentioned earlier, aspart of your best health tip,
and it's a side that I think alot of people don't really focus
in on.
So whether it's cancer orwhether it's a sleep disturbance
because of your cancer or even ahealthy person struggling with
sleep, we always focus in manytimes on the physical side,
(18:38):
which is a factor of course.
Your external environment andwhat you're eating, what you're
drinking, we know that plays arole, but one aspect that really
isn't mentioned a lot is therole that mental health plays in
sleep disturbances for patients.
What can you share about that?
Jacqueline Genova (18:54):
Absolutely.
Mental health is huge.
Obviously we've seen this justfrom the past three years with
COVID, but I think the ironywith this question is that sleep
problems themselves cancontribute to the onset or
worsening of different mentalhealth problems.
It's a vicious cycle, if notaddressed properly.
So it's definitely critical forcancer patients to address their
emotional health just as much astheir physical health.
(19:17):
One of my favorite therapies isthe EFT technique.
I'm sure you're familiar withthis, but for the folks who are
listening who are not, it standsfor the emotional freedom
technique.
And it's essentially just thepractice of tapping on different
accu pressure points to helpmanage your emotions and
troubling thoughts.
So I found that to be helpful.
I share that with folks.
It's a very simple practice.
(19:37):
You could put it into yourbedtime routine, but just again,
focusing on things that calmyour mind.
I'm a huge fan of Epsom saltbaths, reading, journaling
before bed, getting your bodyinto that parasympathetic state.
Very simple practices and youwill feel the difference within
at least a week or so.
It's just a matter of beingconsistent.
Ivelisse Page (19:57):
Yeah.
And even as you're sayingjournaling, it, makes me think
of gratitude and how importantit is to speak out loud those
things that we're grateful for.
Even in a cancer diagnosis,right before bed just say, I am
grateful for today.
I'm grateful that you brought anamazing practitioners into my
life.
Just thinking of all the thingsthat you're grateful for is such
(20:19):
another great aid, in thatmental health aspect.
And the studies that have beendone on that are tremendous in
not only your health, but alsoin your ability to sleep.
So I love that you shared.
How can family, friends, andmedical professionals help
support patients who are havingissues with sleep?
Jacqueline Genova (20:38):
Having a solid support group is critical
not only managing sleep, butjust the cancer journey as a
whole.
And I think support groups canprovide resources to cope with
the stress and the challengesthat patients often experience.
With regards to sleepspecifically, I think just the
comfort of knowing you have asupport group that is looking
out for you, that is praying foryou, and truly walking with you
(21:00):
can definitely help to easeanxiety before bed.
There is an organization, and Iknow you interviewed her, Susie,
called Healing Strong, highlyrecommend.
It's essentially just a bunch ofsupport groups, faith-based
support groups for cancerpatients, cancer thrivers
actually, that enable people to,to connect with each other.
(21:21):
And there's some incrediblespillover effects, again, that
can improve sleep quality fromthat emotional aspect, just in
knowing that you're not walkingalone, there are other people
with you.
So highly encourage people tocheck out Healing Strong as
well.
Ivelisse Page (21:34):
Yeah, they're an amazing organization and yes, we
will put a link to them as wellif someone would like to check
out that kind of a support.
That's one of the things thatreally surprised me in my
journey was when I'd walk in formy appointments.
I had a really huge, strongsupport system with my church,
with my neighbors, with myfamily, but I was shocked to see
(21:54):
that not everyone has thatsupport, and it broke my heart
to see people sitting therealone and feeling alone.
And that's one of the thingsthat we always try and do at
Believe Big is to let peopleknow that we are there for them
physically, mentally,emotionally, and spiritually,
that they don't have to walkthis cancer journey alone.
And all those who are listeningcan be that support to someone
(22:15):
else.
And we really love thepartnership with Healing Strong
and letting people know all overthe country that you can gather
together and be encouraged.
So it's a great organization forsure.
Jacqueline Genova (22:26):
You just touched on a great point.
The beauty too, in recognizingthat is healing is not just
physical, right?
It's focusing on spiritual andemotional healing as well.
And just like you said, that'sone thing I love about Believe
Big and Healing Strong as well,is that it combines all of those
and again, so very powerful.
Ivelisse Page (22:43):
What resources are available for patients
seeking help with sleepproblems?
Jacqueline Genova (22:49):
Sure.
There's this blog called Well NStrong, that's my plug.
Ivelisse Page (22:52):
Yes.
Jacqueline Genova (22:53):
There is some great content on tips to
optimize your sleep cycle.
I know we touched on a fewbriefly, but for your audience,
definitely give that a look.
My site is wellnstrong.com I'vewritten a few articles.
I have some other integrativeexperts write content on sleep
related items.
I create a lot of content on myInstagram and other social
channels, which are all linkedon my website.
(23:14):
I also do strongly encouragecancer patients to find a
naturopathic oncologist withwhom they could partner, so NDs
can work with them inprescribing some of the
supplements we had discussed, beit melatonin, herbs like
Valerian root, or even in somecases, homeopathy, all of which
can be very effective.
Patients can search fornaturopathic oncologists ONCANP,
(23:37):
which stands for the OncologyAssociation of Naturopathic
Physicians.
And the beauty is that almosteverything can be done via Zoom.
My mom works with an incrediblenaturopathic oncologist who's
based out of Boulder, so not toofar from you.
And it's been wonderful.
So an another great resource tocheck out.
Ivelisse Page (23:54):
Yes, and also on our website, believebig.org, if
you click on resources, they'llsay find an integrative
practitioner.
And we list, of course, thosewho also specialize in mistletoe
therapy, but we have MDs andNDs, DOs and nurse practitioners
that are a part of that list.
So that's another resource forindividuals who need help with
(24:14):
that.
Jacqueline, is there anythingthat you would like to add about
sleep that we didn't touch onthat you think would be helpful
for those who are listening?
Jacqueline Genova (24:23):
I would just say, and I touched on this
before, but having a solidroutine is very powerful.
So even if again, it's justwriting five things down before
you go to sleep that you'regrateful for, meditating on a
scripture verse, oftentimes thethoughts you have before bed
will truly also dictate thequality of your sleep.
So focus on good things, goodthoughts.
(24:44):
Stick to a routine, know thatyou're not alone and take
everything a day at a time.
Ivelisse Page (24:49):
That's great advice.
So thank you so much for joiningus today on the podcast and all
that you do for individuals tohave a better life and to
thrive.
So we really appreciate you.
Jacqueline Genova (25:02):
Thank you, Ivelisse.
I appreciate it.
Ivelisse Page (25:11):
If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to
help support our podcast, pleasesubscribe and share it with
others.
Be sure to visit believebig.orgto access the show notes and
discover our bonus content.
Thanks again and keep BelievingBig!
Hi, I'm Ivelisse Page and thanks for listening to
the Believe Big podcast, theshow where we take a deep dive
into your healing with healthexperts, integrative
practitioners, biblical faithleaders, and cancer thrivers
from around the globe.
(00:34):
Welcome to today's episode onthe Believe Big podcast.
My name is Ivelisse Page andit's an honor to spend this time
with you.
On today's episode, we are goingto be talking with Jacqueline
Genova from Well N Strong aboutone of the most important, and
yet overlooked aspects of ourhealth, sleep.
A good night's rest can have aprofound impact on our physical
(00:58):
and mental wellbeing.
Jacqueline is a certifiedholistic nutritionist and
wellness writer who ispassionate about healing through
integrative medicine.
She resorted to holistic healingapproaches to resolve some of
her own health problems and tohelp her mom battle cancer.
She is a graduate of BabsonCollege where she researched and
(01:18):
wrote a thesis that advocatedintegrative medicine as an
alternative to conventionalcancer treatment.
She developed a passion to sharewhat she learned with others
that led to her founding of WellN Strong.
She believes in a holisticapproach to wellness that
addresses the root causes ofillness and not the suppression
of symptoms.
(01:39):
Welcome, Jacqueline to the show.
Jacqueline Genova (01:41):
Ivelisse, thank you so much.
I am so excited to be here andchat with you.
I know we had first connected, Iwanna say, back in October
through the Healing StrongPodcast, but thank you so much
for inviting me.
I am a huge fan of yours, ofBelieve Big and of this podcast,
so looking forward to chatting.
Ivelisse Page (01:58):
we're so grateful for you.
I know as an incredible writerand what you do at Well N
Strong, I know you have manywonderful health tips, and so
can you share your favorite withus?
Jacqueline Genova (02:10):
Absolutely.
This is my favorite question.
I look forward to all of yourinterviewee's answers whenever I
hear your new episodes eachweek.
But I would say mine is do notunderestimate the power of your
mind or the words you speak.
So, we're living in this timeright now where we are just
tapping into the incrediblescience of the power of our
thoughts in influencing our veryown biology.
(02:32):
There's been studies that haveshown our thoughts are able to
change not only our brain, butalso our cells, and even our
gene expression, which isincredibly fascinating.
And one thing I really loveabout this is the more I read
studies like these, the more I'mable to draw connections and see
the real life applications ofwhat scripture has already said
about this that life and deathare in the power of the tongue.
(02:54):
So with that, I would just sayto focus on speaking good things
over yourself, over your healingjourney.
I personally am a huge fan ofbiblical affirmations.
I'm always on my mom to say themevery morning, but just speaking
the Word over yourself becausethere's truly so much power in
that.
Ivelisse Page (03:10):
Yes, a hundred percent.
And it says that His Word isactive.
So it's not something that waswritten so long ago and it
doesn't apply to today.
You can read the same verse andit can have a different meaning
to you because God's spirit willspeak to you.
And tell you what you need tohear that day.
And so I love that tip.
And that's one thing that I didevery day during my cancer
(03:32):
journey, and I know it played ahuge role in allowing my body to
be in rest and repair modeversus that fight and flight,
because of fear.
So thank you for sharing thattip.
So what are some common sleepchallenges faced by cancer
patients that you have heard of?
Jacqueline Genova (03:50):
That's a great question, Ivelisse, so
studies have shown that nearlyhalf of all cancer patients have
sleep related problems duringtreatment.
I think there's a twofold answerto that.
First you have the mental,emotional side where we can
probably assume there's a goodchance that the cancer patient
may be experiencing increase offeelings of anxiety or
depression that will be relatedto their diagnosis.
(04:12):
Racing thoughts, emotionaltrauma, those can all be major
barriers to a good night's rest.
And then secondly, there's thephysical aspect, right?
Where a patient may beexperiencing disrupted sleep due
to the side effects oftreatments, certainly
medications they may be taking.
Physical stress obviously is ahuge one.
and other factors.
Ivelisse Page (04:32):
Yeah, so what have you found in your research
when you do your writings as faras some things that can help
patients who are struggling withsleep?
Jacqueline Genova (04:41):
We could have a whole separate episode on
this.
Hugely passionate about thistopic, and it's funny, the irony
is, last night I didn't actuallyget the best night of sleep, but
probably around two o'clock Iwas like, all right, I'm
chatting with Ivelisse tomorrow.
I have all these tips.
What can I start to implementnow?
And what I did helped, so I'mspeaking firsthand experience
here but I'd say my mostimportant one for sleep hygiene
(05:03):
is to get exposure to sunlightfirst thing in the morning.
So right when you get up, andthat is because our circadian
rhythms are tied to darkness andlight.
The problem is that most peopleare out of sync.
So one way to get back on trackis to spend 10 to 20 minutes in
bright sunlight again, firstthing when you wake up in the
morning.
At a high level, that brightlight tells the body to suppress
(05:25):
melatonin production andincrease cortisol production,
which is the hormone that helpsus get up.
In addition to also increasingour serotonin, and we won't get
too granular, but eventually thepineal gland metabolizes
serotonin into melatonin, andthat's what helps us naturally
fall asleep at night.
My second tip is to avoidartificial blue light and bright
(05:46):
lights in the evening.
I'm sure you're very familiarwith this.
We all struggle with it, myselfincluded.
I think that's why I had a bitof a difficulty falling asleep
last night.
But it's really critical if youwant to optimize your sleep
cycle.
They've done studies on thisthat have shown very clearly
that you know when you exposeyour eyes to light at night not
only is there a delay inmelatonin onset, but there's
(06:09):
less melatonin secreted duringthe night and there is more
sleep inertia the next morning.
So sleep inertia is what Iexperienced this morning where
your alarm clock goes off, timeto get up and you're like, okay,
I don't wanna get up.
So scrolling through your phone,being on that computer, those
are some of the worst things todo right before bed but
recognizing that most peoplewill still probably do this, I
(06:31):
think to help mitigateartificial light, you can use
blue light blocking glasses.
Those have been very helpful forme.
I think I recall you chattingabout, I forget which company
that had the different lightbulbs as well that people use
before bed, like the amberlights, the red lights.
They've also been shown topromote good sleep.
But ideally if you could justshut off the screens an hour
before bed, I think that'speople's best bets.
(06:53):
And in that same vein, turn offWIFI at night.
Ivelisse Page (06:57):
How does one do that?
I know, like for me, I haveXfinity and I can go on that app
and turn it off but some peoplehave a, shut off, like a switch
at their modem.
What are some ways for peoplewho aren't familiar or know that
they can actually turn off theirWIFI, have you found simple ways
that they could do that?
Jacqueline Genova (07:16):
That's a great question.
I was actually trying to figureout how to set a timer with my
own company, but unfortunately,because I live in an apartment
that's limited with what theycan do.
So I basically just unplug myWIFI, every night right before I
go to sleep.
And certainly some peoplelistening might be saying, what
does WIFI have to do with mysleep?
But it has a massive impact, asstudies have shown that EMF
(07:38):
exposure has very negativeeffects on our bodies when it
comes to DNA repair.
And because most of our DNArepair occurs while we sleep,
shut off all sources.
So, I mean, if you could set upa timer with your provider to
just cut everything off at10:00, 10:30, whenever you go to
sleep, that's definitely mostideal.
Certainly some people also relyon their phones for their
(07:59):
alarms, like myself.
So making sure your phone is onairplane mode before you go to
sleep is helpful.
I'm also a huge fan of radiationprotecting technology like Safe
Sleeve.
I have a Safe Sleeve phoneprotector.
Ivelisse Page (08:11):
And I've heard someone, one of our doctors said
that they actually, you know thetimers use it Christmas time for
your lights that you can use inyour home?
They connected their modem tothat.
They plug it right into thereand then they set the time so
it's shut off.
And that way you don't have togo manually turn it on and off
each time.
Jacqueline Genova (08:28):
It's funny you mentioned that I actually
have one for my porch lights andI had tried to apply it to my
WIFI, but again, nature ofliving in an apartment.
But that's definitely anothergreat alternative.
Ivelisse Page (08:38):
That's great.
And then you also mentionedabout light.
What about for people who arenot in like sunny Florida or
California or Arizona, when it'scloudy.
Believe Big home office is inBaltimore and it's cloudy this
time of year.
So what kind of light or whatare some other options that you
can do to get that sunlight inthe morning that you need?
Jacqueline Genova (09:00):
I have quite a few friends in Seattle,
Washington where every day israining.
I will say though that Red lightis huge.
There's also a light Amazonsells.
I can't recall the name.
I think it's like mood light orsad sad light for people with
Seasonal Effective Disorder.
So folks can use those when youwake up again, stand in front of
that red light.
I have a one from Mito that Ireally like 10 to 15 minutes
(09:22):
every day, first thing in themorning.
I also think it's important torecognize that you don't
necessarily need to havesunlight to get that exposure
that you need.
So just again, being outside,there are so many different
factors of light exposure thatjust penetrate ourselves outside
of even just looking at the sun.
And again, there's a whole otherscientific explanation for that.
(09:44):
But being outside, whether ornot, it's very sunny that day or
cloudy can, can still serve itspurpose in terms of helping to
optimize your circadian rhythm.
Ivelisse Page (09:53):
Yeah, I agree.
We just recently got a puppy andhe gets us up at 5 45 every
morning, and that's my one plus,when I go outside and have my
coat on or my shawl on and Ijust face the sun and it's a
reminder, one, face the sun,God, and just say, Lord, thank
you for today, even though I'mtired of taking this puppy out
(10:15):
right now.
Jacqueline Genova (10:16):
Absolutely.
Ivelisse Page (10:17):
I am grateful for a new day.
And then you're right, thatlight just really helps to wake
you up.
I also have the Mito, red lighttherapy light and love, love
theirs.
I used to have a Joovv light.
That was great.
But, we're gonna actually do apodcast on red light therapy cuz
it has so many benefits.
So I heard, and this is aanother topic that we're gonna
(10:38):
be discussing in the future, butI heard that alcohol, even one
glass a day plays a largenegative role in the quality of
sleep.
What have you discovered aboutthat?
Jacqueline Genova (10:47):
Yeah, it's funny, I listened to a podcast
yesterday on this and theybasically said there is no safe
level of alcohol when it comesto getting a good night's sleep.
So I know there's beenconflicting research on red
wine, for example, can have somepositive health effects with the
antioxidants and polyphenolsand, that's all well and good,
but again, when it comes tosleeping and optimizing your
sleep cycle, no alcohol is thebest alcohol and I firmly stand
(11:11):
by that.
Certainly, for people who dochoose to imbibe I think make
sure that your last drink is atleast three to four hours before
you put your head on the pillow.
I think that's definitely a goodpractice.
But overall, I would sayavoidance is the best.
Ivelisse Page (11:26):
Yeah.
Dr.
Amen.
out in California has done a lotof research on it, and he's a
brain specialist.
And you see the MRIs of someonewho has been drinking and then
stopped drinking, and thensomeone who's never drank.
And it is amazing, the health ofthe brain and how it's impacted
by alcohol, let alone in theUnited States, it's so filled
with chemicals and pesticidesfrom the grapes and the wine how
(11:49):
it's produced.
So outside of the toxins thatcould be in it, you know the
negative effects on our brainand our sleep should be
something that everyone shouldconsider.
Can sleep disturbances affectcancer treatment outcomes?
Jacqueline Genova (12:02):
Absolutely.
And the simple answer to that isthat, sleep is one of the most
powerful regulators of ourimmune system.
I recall reading one study thattook a group of healthy adults,
limited them to four hours ofsleep for one night, and found
that their natural killer cellactivity dropped by 70%.
And that is very scary.
For those of you who arelistening who aren't familiar
(12:24):
with natural killer cells, theyplay a pivotal function in
cancer immune surveillance.
So you could think of thesecells, as the body's first line
of defense in being able torecognize and eradicate
malignant cells.
Certainly with any type ofcancer treatment, you want your
immune system to be in tip topshape, especially if you're
pursuing the conventional route,which comes with you know,
(12:45):
severe side effects ofimmunosuppression.
So really wanna be prioritizinghigh quality sleep.
Research shows that the immunesystem needs actually nine and a
half hours of sleep in totaldarkness to recharge completely.
Ivelisse Page (12:59):
Wow.
Jacqueline Genova (12:59):
That is well above what most folks, cancer
and non-cancer patients aregetting each night.
So something to think about.
Ivelisse Page (13:06):
Wow, that's incredible.
You hear that about teenagerstoo.
They say, oh, at least we getseven to eight hours of sleep.
Yep.
But they need so much more, andthat's amazing, we do as well.
I interrupted your tips on whatare some other hygiene tools
that people can use to improvetheir quality of sleep?
And you mentioned light and thenturning off your WIFI.
(13:26):
Did you have any others youwanted to share before I moved
on?
Jacqueline Genova (13:29):
Sure.
In terms of actual like naturalremedies, so things like
supplements and herbs, I am allabout that.
I think one very importantsupplement that people should
consider including is magnesium.
Studies have shown thatmagnesium helps with sleep
because it calms the mind bysupporting the production of a
neurotransmitter called GABA.
You can certainly increase yourmagnesium through nutrition, so
(13:52):
focus on eating things likegreen, leafy vegetables, nuts
and seeds, pure dark chocolateand avocados are my two favorite
magnesium rich food sources.
I have those every single day,as does my mom.
You can also opt for magnesiumsupplements, so in general,
magnesium glycinate andmagnesium citrate are best
absorbed by the body.
I know there's so many differentforms out there, so those are
(14:14):
probably the most common onestaken for sleep.
But certainly with that, alwayscheck with your doctor before
introducing any new supplements.
I know cancer patients are onquite a few of those already.
Magnesium and then aromatherapy.
I am a huge fan of essentialoils, Ivelisse.
I probably have about 10 rightnow, just sitting on my desk
(14:34):
that I use almost on a dailybasis, but they're wonderful.
Ivelisse Page (14:39):
Yeah, I agree.
There's so many benefits tothem.
And the magnesium, I hear thatmost Americans are deficient in
it, and we don't even realizethat.
I'm one that takes magnesiumevery night before bed.
And that has really helped notonly my sleep, but also my
hormone levels.
As I'm entering in that agewhere, you know, balancing all
those wonderful hormones, sothat was a huge role.
Jacqueline Genova (15:02):
Yeah.
And one thing too I love, andthat's the beauty with natural
medicine, is a lot of these,quote unquote, like treatments
or prescriptions, notnecessarily prescriptions, but
remedies rather have twofoldpurposes, so they boost your
immune system.
But also for a cancer patient,they have anti-cancer effects.
And again, examples of those areeven essential oils.
So they promote solid sleep, butthey've also been shown to have
(15:25):
anti-cancer properties, in termsof like helping the immune
system identify cancer cells inthe body.
Frankincense and geranium haveactually been shown to stop or
suppress tumor progression,which is fascinating, and
turmeric as well.
So again, those are some that I,I include in my mom's treatment
protocol.
And melatonin is another exampleof something that has the
(15:45):
twofold purpose.
Obviously you've heard of theconnection with melatonin and
cancer.
So there's patients that take upto 20 milligrams a night of
melatonin just again to helpprevent metastasis and helps to
promote good sleep.
So a lot of great benefits.
Ivelisse Page (16:00):
Yes.
And I'm one of those, and eventhough I'm 14 years out from my
cancer, when I've been workingwith my integrative
practitioner, that's one of thethings that she also mentioned
for balancing my hormones andmaking sure I'm sleeping well.
And at first I was like, wow, 20milligrams! But under a medical
guidance, I always just say,check with your practitioner.
Just because I share somethingor Jacqueline shares something.
(16:22):
Always check with yourpractitioners to make sure that
it's best for you as anindividual, as they can look at
your blood work and see exactlythe amount you need and what's
best for you.
But I'm glad that you mentionedthat as well for sleep.
Jacqueline Genova (16:35):
Do you use homeopathy?
Cause I recall in one episodeyou chatting about it.
I am a huge fan.
I actually was introduced to itabout a little less than a year
ago, and it's become a newpassion of mine.
Ivelisse Page (16:46):
Yes, I've been using homeopathic remedies since
my kids were babies.
My oldest now is almost 30 yearsold, and I was introduced to it
when I was pregnant with him.
And it is amazing all the thingsthat homeopathic remedies do.
I love the products from UrielPharmacy.
That's where I get all of mine.
And I use a lot of their bodyoils.
(17:10):
And of course, so many otheraspects of my cancer journey,
was used with homeopathicremedies as well.
Really an important role.
It can also help with sleep andso many other things too, yes,
definitely a big win on thatside.
Jacqueline Genova (17:24):
Coffea cruda, Ignatia are my two favorites.
Ivelisse Page (17:27):
Which one?
Same'em again.
Jacqueline Genova (17:29):
Coffea cruda, I think that's how you pronounce
it in like a 60 potency and thenignatia to help with anxiety.
I also love Uriel and Boron andHelios are my top three sources
for homeopathy.
Ivelisse Page (17:41):
Yes.
And what's so great about it isyou could take the whole bottle
and it wouldn't harm you.
You can find'em in, grocerystores like Sprouts or Wegmans,
wherever you are in pharmaciesnow, they have the little blue
vials.
If anyone's interested, we'llput in the link to our
homeopathic episode that I didwith Mark McKibben a few weeks
back.
Jacqueline Genova (18:01):
When I have friends come over, I have a
whole cabinet just dedicated toall of my remedies.
It's like a mini pharmacy, andthey're like, what is this?
But it takes a while to explain.
And then once I do, they becomeinterested.
But for those who haven't heardor checked it out, I highly
recommend exploring it.
It's an incredible field.
Ivelisse Page (18:17):
Yeah.
Wonderful.
So you mentioned earlier, aspart of your best health tip,
and it's a side that I think alot of people don't really focus
in on.
So whether it's cancer orwhether it's a sleep disturbance
because of your cancer or even ahealthy person struggling with
sleep, we always focus in manytimes on the physical side,
(18:38):
which is a factor of course.
Your external environment andwhat you're eating, what you're
drinking, we know that plays arole, but one aspect that really
isn't mentioned a lot is therole that mental health plays in
sleep disturbances for patients.
What can you share about that?
Jacqueline Genova (18:54):
Absolutely.
Mental health is huge.
Obviously we've seen this justfrom the past three years with
COVID, but I think the ironywith this question is that sleep
problems themselves cancontribute to the onset or
worsening of different mentalhealth problems.
It's a vicious cycle, if notaddressed properly.
So it's definitely critical forcancer patients to address their
emotional health just as much astheir physical health.
(19:17):
One of my favorite therapies isthe EFT technique.
I'm sure you're familiar withthis, but for the folks who are
listening who are not, it standsfor the emotional freedom
technique.
And it's essentially just thepractice of tapping on different
accu pressure points to helpmanage your emotions and
troubling thoughts.
So I found that to be helpful.
I share that with folks.
It's a very simple practice.
(19:37):
You could put it into yourbedtime routine, but just again,
focusing on things that calmyour mind.
I'm a huge fan of Epsom saltbaths, reading, journaling
before bed, getting your bodyinto that parasympathetic state.
Very simple practices and youwill feel the difference within
at least a week or so.
It's just a matter of beingconsistent.
Ivelisse Page (19:57):
Yeah.
And even as you're sayingjournaling, it, makes me think
of gratitude and how importantit is to speak out loud those
things that we're grateful for.
Even in a cancer diagnosis,right before bed just say, I am
grateful for today.
I'm grateful that you brought anamazing practitioners into my
life.
Just thinking of all the thingsthat you're grateful for is such
(20:19):
another great aid, in thatmental health aspect.
And the studies that have beendone on that are tremendous in
not only your health, but alsoin your ability to sleep.
So I love that you shared.
How can family, friends, andmedical professionals help
support patients who are havingissues with sleep?
Jacqueline Genova (20:38):
Having a solid support group is critical
not only managing sleep, butjust the cancer journey as a
whole.
And I think support groups canprovide resources to cope with
the stress and the challengesthat patients often experience.
With regards to sleepspecifically, I think just the
comfort of knowing you have asupport group that is looking
out for you, that is praying foryou, and truly walking with you
(21:00):
can definitely help to easeanxiety before bed.
There is an organization, and Iknow you interviewed her, Susie,
called Healing Strong, highlyrecommend.
It's essentially just a bunch ofsupport groups, faith-based
support groups for cancerpatients, cancer thrivers
actually, that enable people to,to connect with each other.
(21:21):
And there's some incrediblespillover effects, again, that
can improve sleep quality fromthat emotional aspect, just in
knowing that you're not walkingalone, there are other people
with you.
So highly encourage people tocheck out Healing Strong as
well.
Ivelisse Page (21:34):
Yeah, they're an amazing organization and yes, we
will put a link to them as wellif someone would like to check
out that kind of a support.
That's one of the things thatreally surprised me in my
journey was when I'd walk in formy appointments.
I had a really huge, strongsupport system with my church,
with my neighbors, with myfamily, but I was shocked to see
(21:54):
that not everyone has thatsupport, and it broke my heart
to see people sitting therealone and feeling alone.
And that's one of the thingsthat we always try and do at
Believe Big is to let peopleknow that we are there for them
physically, mentally,emotionally, and spiritually,
that they don't have to walkthis cancer journey alone.
And all those who are listeningcan be that support to someone
(22:15):
else.
And we really love thepartnership with Healing Strong
and letting people know all overthe country that you can gather
together and be encouraged.
So it's a great organization forsure.
Jacqueline Genova (22:26):
You just touched on a great point.
The beauty too, in recognizingthat is healing is not just
physical, right?
It's focusing on spiritual andemotional healing as well.
And just like you said, that'sone thing I love about Believe
Big and Healing Strong as well,is that it combines all of those
and again, so very powerful.
Ivelisse Page (22:43):
What resources are available for patients
seeking help with sleepproblems?
Jacqueline Genova (22:49):
Sure.
There's this blog called Well NStrong, that's my plug.
Ivelisse Page (22:52):
Yes.
Jacqueline Genova (22:53):
There is some great content on tips to
optimize your sleep cycle.
I know we touched on a fewbriefly, but for your audience,
definitely give that a look.
My site is wellnstrong.com I'vewritten a few articles.
I have some other integrativeexperts write content on sleep
related items.
I create a lot of content on myInstagram and other social
channels, which are all linkedon my website.
(23:14):
I also do strongly encouragecancer patients to find a
naturopathic oncologist withwhom they could partner, so NDs
can work with them inprescribing some of the
supplements we had discussed, beit melatonin, herbs like
Valerian root, or even in somecases, homeopathy, all of which
can be very effective.
Patients can search fornaturopathic oncologists ONCANP,
(23:37):
which stands for the OncologyAssociation of Naturopathic
Physicians.
And the beauty is that almosteverything can be done via Zoom.
My mom works with an incrediblenaturopathic oncologist who's
based out of Boulder, so not toofar from you.
And it's been wonderful.
So an another great resource tocheck out.
Ivelisse Page (23:54):
Yes, and also on our website, believebig.org, if
you click on resources, they'llsay find an integrative
practitioner.
And we list, of course, thosewho also specialize in mistletoe
therapy, but we have MDs andNDs, DOs and nurse practitioners
that are a part of that list.
So that's another resource forindividuals who need help with
(24:14):
that.
Jacqueline, is there anythingthat you would like to add about
sleep that we didn't touch onthat you think would be helpful
for those who are listening?
Jacqueline Genova (24:23):
I would just say, and I touched on this
before, but having a solidroutine is very powerful.
So even if again, it's justwriting five things down before
you go to sleep that you'regrateful for, meditating on a
scripture verse, oftentimes thethoughts you have before bed
will truly also dictate thequality of your sleep.
So focus on good things, goodthoughts.
(24:44):
Stick to a routine, know thatyou're not alone and take
everything a day at a time.
Ivelisse Page (24:49):
That's great advice.
So thank you so much for joiningus today on the podcast and all
that you do for individuals tohave a better life and to
thrive.
So we really appreciate you.
Jacqueline Genova (25:02):
Thank you, Ivelisse.
I appreciate it.
Ivelisse Page (25:11):
If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to
help support our podcast, pleasesubscribe and share it with
others.
Be sure to visit believebig.orgto access the show notes and
discover our bonus content.
Thanks again and keep BelievingBig!
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!