October 10, 2023 • 27 mins
Kicking off Season 2 of the Believe Big podcast, Ivelisse interviews Dr. Lindsay Adrian, an integrative physician specializing in cancer care and chronic conditions.
This episode is PACKED with practical examples and clearly articulated information about glutathione, sometimes hailed as the body's ultimate defense against free radicals and oxidative stress.
Dr. Adrian sheds light on
- the significance of glutathione, especially for those navigating a cancer diagnosis,
- glutathione as a crucial amino acid that acts as a master antioxidant in the body,
- the importance of glutathione for healthy mitochondrial function,
- and how glutathione aids in detoxification.
The discussion highlights key cautions, emphasizing that glutathione should be judiciously integrated, particularly avoiding overlap with conventional treatments to prevent potential interference. Dr. Adrian underscores the seriousness of working with an integrative practitioner who understands when and how to incorporate glutathione in a patient's treatment plan.
Connect with Dr. Lindsay Adrian:
Port Moody Health
Suggested Resource Links:
- Tri-Fortify by Researched Nutritionals
- Liposomal Glutathione by Designs for Health
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ivelisse Page (00:06):
Hi, I'm Ivelisse Page, and thanks for listening
to the Believe Big Podcast, theshow where we take a deep dive
into your healing with healthexperts, integrative
practitioners, biblical faithleaders, and cancer thrivers
from around the globe.
(00:34):
Welcome to today's episode onthe Believe Big podcast.
My name is Ivelisse Page, andit's an honor to be with you
today.
There are so many things tolearn about when you're working
through a cancer diagnosis, andthat includes medications,
therapies, supplements, and manyother things.
Glutathione is something thatyou may or may not have heard
(00:54):
about.
Today, we have one of ourintegrative physician friends,
Dr.
Lindsay Adrian, from the PortMoody Health in British
Columbia, Canada, to talk to usabout glutathione and what
health benefits it can offer.
Dr.
Adrian is a naturopathicphysician specializing in
integrative cancer care andchronic conditions.
(01:15):
She holds an undergraduatedegree in chemistry, a graduate
of Boucher Institute ofNaturopathic Medicine, an active
member of the OncologyAssociation of Naturopathic
Physicians, and is a fellow tothe Association of the College
of Naturopathic Oncology.
She is married with threewonderful children and loves
(01:37):
rowing on the Fraser River andplaying soccer.
Welcome, Dr.
Adrian, to the show.
Dr. Lindsay Adrian (01:44):
Thank you very much, Ivelisse.
It's lovely to be here.
Ivelisse Page (01:48):
Well, as you know, our listeners are always
interested in discovering whatour guest's favorite health tip
is.
I am sure you have many, but canyou share one with us?
Dr. Lindsay Adrian (01:58):
Absolutely.
You know, I think a lot of thetimes we forget about the simple
things and, and I thinksometimes we undervalue some of
the simple things.
And so one of my favorite tipsis deep belly breathing.
And I think oftentimes, peoplehear about deep breathing and
they feel like sometimes they'rebeing minimized when they're
(02:19):
told to breathe through some oftheir challenges.
And I think that comes from nothaving a really great
explanation of why.
And so I just want to brieflyshare biochemistry because
that's what really gets mejazzed.
And so when we take this bigbelly breath, there's this big
shelf of muscle called ourdiaphragm, and that muscle is
(02:39):
flattened.
It pulls down.
But we have this lovely bignerve called our vagus nerve
that travels from our brainstempast our esophagus and our heart
and our lungs past our stomachand our liver and gallbladder
and into our intestines and thatvagus nerve is tethered to that
shelf of muscle, that, thatdiaphragm.
(03:01):
And so when you take your deepbreath, that vagus nerve is
pulled nice and tight and itvibrates right up into your
brain.
And it's this sneaky backdoorway to tell your brain to go
into parasympathetic mode andparasympathetic is our rest,
digest and repair.
And so I always say you can'tyell at the gerbil to get off
(03:22):
the wheel when we're stressedand we're overwhelmed.
Convincing yourself to calm downdoesn't work, but you can sort
of sneaky back door into thatnice rest, digest, repair with
deep belly breathing.
Ivelisse Page (03:36):
Wow.
I have never heard that it wasassociated with your vagus nerve
and how important that is.
And so thank you for showing usand telling us about that cause
I had never heard that I'veheard the benefits of breathing.
And even as you were speaking, Iwas"take deep breaths, Ivelisse,
take deep breaths." And it is sotrue that it really helps our
bodies to get into that rest andrepair mode.
(03:58):
But thank you for sharing that.
I know that it'll be a great tipfor everyone.
So for those listening who don'tknow about glutathione, can you
share with us what it is and itsmost important functions?
Dr. Lindsay Adrian (04:10):
Oh my, okay, well, how about I start with
what it is.
So glutathione is an amino acidthat our body makes.
Some people are really efficientat making it and other people
are genetically a little slower,have a little harder time making
it.
Glutathione is our masterantioxidant.
So it is used in most of thetissues in your entire body.
(04:34):
It's incredibly important forquenching free radicals.
and reactive oxygen species.
and probably from myperspective, one of its biggest
roles is as our sort ofmitochondrial repair regulator.
And, and so glutathione isabsolutely imperative for
healthy mitochondrial function.
(04:56):
And for those people who haven'theard that word, mitochondria is
not just the powerhouse of thecell, which is what I think a
lot of us learn in high schoolscience.
but it's also sort of thismaster regulator of all of our
cellular functions.
So it needs to be healthy androbust and work well.
Ivelisse Page (05:15):
Yeah.
This summer, this past summerwhen we were both at a
conference in Ecuador, I washaving a bit of elevation
sickness and just worn down fromtravel.
And you gave me a great littleglutathione packet that you
travel with.
And I mean, incredibly, itreally helped me.
So can you share why you travelwith these packets and do you
have a specific brand that yourecommend or prefer?
Dr. Lindsay Adrian (05:37):
So, I traveled specifically this time
with some glutathione because Iknew that we were going to be
experiencing some very highelevations.
And with those high elevations,we're not having great oxygen
delivery to our tissues.
That's why we often have thosesymptoms of headache and nausea
and dizziness andbreathlessness.
(05:59):
And so when our tissue has notenough oxygen, it makes lactic
acid.
And that lactic acid can comewith it a bunch of cellular
injury and damage.
And so the glutathione was thereto try to repair those cells,
also to make it so that theoxygen that we were getting was
(06:19):
able to be used more efficientlyby our mitochondria to make
energy.
When it comes to brands, thereare a few great ones out there.
I'm from Canada and so thebrands that we have here are a
little different than some ofthe brands you can get in the U
S, but the big thing withglutathione is that it's a large
molecule, so it is not veryeasily absorbed, so when people
(06:42):
are looking at sources forglutathione, it needs to be from
a company that understands howto make it bioavailable.
Glutathione off the shelf atyour local health food store is
probably going to come out thesame way it went in and not very
much of it will be absorbed inyour tissues.
So I am very picky about makingsure that the brands are
(07:05):
lipolyzed, which means wrappedin a fat.
Or, you know, some other way ofmaking the glutathione itself as
bioavailable as humanlypossible.
Ivelisse Page (07:15):
Okay, that's a great tip.
And if you do have some, brandsthat maybe I can check into, I
can put those links in the shownotes for people to check out
because it is so important, notonly the item, but the quality
of it.
And like you said, thebioavailable, availability, and
I'm sure people will be askingabout that.
Dr. Lindsay Adrian (07:33):
My favorites are the Trifortify by Research
Nutritionals.
and theirs probably tastes thebest out of all the ones I've
had.
And then actually there's aproduct by Designs for Health,
and I know that they areaccessible in both the US and
Canada.
And they have a very goodproduct as well.
Ivelisse Page (07:51):
Okay.
And so you mentioned about ifyou take something off the shelf
and you're eating it and it'sgoing to go out the same way it
came in, recently, as manypeople know, I had a cancer
diagnosis and I had to go in fora CT scan and it was with
contrast and I was told that tohave a 25 milligrams of high
(08:14):
dose IV vitamin C, and then todo a glutathione push in order
to help push out the contrastout of my body quicker.
Is that something that you wouldrecommend also, you know, with
the physician's approval ofcourse for each patient, but is
that something that yourecommend as well for your
patients when they have to gothrough a CT scan or a PET scan?
Dr. Lindsay Adrian (08:38):
Yeah.
So a couple of things there,glutathione does have such low
bioavailability by mouth.
And so when you're working withan integrative practitioner who
has access to IV therapies,absolutely the most useful way
to use glutathione isintravenously because we're
bypassing that gut absorptionand getting a hundred percent of
(09:00):
that glutathione that's goinginto your body into your tissues
themselves.
The other part of it is actuallythe other aspects of glutathione
usefulness, which is your detoxpathways.
And so, for me, I'm mostly usingglutathione for that
physiological improvement incellular function.
(09:21):
And then obviously when youimprove liver cells function or
kidney cells function, you'regoing to improve detox sort of
indirectly in that way, butglutathione has additional
mechanistic support throughdirect, detox pathways.
So what that means is that inour liver when we have toxins
that enter our body and whetherthat's a contrast dye, whether
(09:43):
that's the pesticides orherbicides in our food, whether
that's the, you know, gasolineemissions that are in our smog
every day, these molecules comeinto our blood and then go
through the liver and then theliver has a few different
pathways that it can use to sortof label that as a toxin and
label it for elimination.
(10:06):
I'm a very visual person, as youknow, and so I think about this
labeling like the liver pinninga tail on all of these toxins as
they come through.
And so it's like you've got agroup of kids playing pin the
tail on the donkey and they'reall, you know, running around
labeling these toxins with thesedifferent tails.
(10:28):
And then those tails dictatethat molecule that's in the
blood should get moved into thebowel or moved through the
kidneys for elimination.
One of those tails isglutathione.
And that's a pathway calledglutathione conjugation.
And so it's one of the manyphenomenal uses for this
(10:49):
nutrient.
So that's what's happening withthe contrast dye.
Glutathione is great for helpingto tag out that dye as the toxin
that it is can help your bodyeliminate it.
And it'll also help repair anyof the oxidative damage that dye
may have created while it wasbeing used.
Ivelisse Page (11:11):
Okay, and could someone do that before the scan
or do you recommend post?
Dr. Lindsay Adrian (11:17):
You know, because glutathione is a
nutrient that's kind of in andout relatively quickly and the
administration of glutathionecan be a little bit tricky, I do
use it if somebody has easyaccess to IVs, I would use it
the day before.
Four and then probably a coupleof times a week, for a week to
(11:37):
two weeks after depending on aperson's kidney function.
But there's also a precursornutrient to glutathione called
n-acetylcysteine.
Your body uses n-acetylcysteineto make glutathione.
It's sort of the rate limitingnutrient.
And although glutathione is veryhard to absorb, n-acetylcysteine
(12:00):
is very easy to absorb, and soit's a great sort of daily
alternative.
And we actually have phenomenalclinical trial data proving that
n-acetylcysteine protects thekidneys, in particular, from our
radioactively labeled contrastagents.
So not just the dyes, but alsothe radioactively labeled
(12:23):
agents.
Ivelisse Page (12:24):
Thank you, that is so interesting.
Is there anything such asglutathione deficiency and is
that something that should beconsidered for people with a
chronic illness or cancer?
Dr. Lindsay Adrian (12:34):
Yeah, so glutathione, like I said, your
body makes it, but there arelots of things that increase its
need.
And then there are lots ofthings that block our ability to
make it efficiently.
And so, you know, in our perfectworld with our lovely healthy
bodies and our excellentlyfunctioning genes, you're never
going to be glutathionedeficient.
(12:56):
But in our world that has lotsof toxins, which requires lots
of glutathione conjugation, lotsof glutathione use for quenching
those free radicals, andespecially if we're in a
nutrient deprived state, thosesorts of things can make it so
we don't have enough glutathioneto be doing all the jobs that it
(13:17):
needs.
And then again, when we throw ineach individual person's genetic
ability to make it and torecycle it, because that's the
other fun part aboutglutathione, we can actually use
the same molecule over and overagain, as the glutathione is
oxidized when it takes on someof those reactive oxygen
(13:39):
species, and then it getsreduced again.
And there are nutrients likevitamin C, zinc, selenium, a
whole host of B vitamins.
All of these things help supportthe healthy, normal redox
capacity or recycling capacityof glutathione.
Ivelisse Page (13:59):
That's incredible.
And I read that it also helps toslow the progression of cancer.
Is that true?
Or how does it do that?
Dr. Lindsay Adrian (14:06):
So this is where we get a little bit
sticky.
And so this is this is where Iput my giant, you know, flashing
caution sign up a little bit.
Because glutathione is depletedby the vast majority of our
conventional cancer treatments,but it also interferes with
(14:26):
pretty much every one of ourconventional cancer treatments.
So there is a very big, strong"must".
We must not use glutathioneduring chemotherapy or
radiotherapy.
It is an absolutecontraindication and an absolute
no, same with glutathione'sprecursor N-acetylcysteine.
(14:49):
Both of these are the type ofantioxidants that directly
interfere with the function oftraditional chemotherapies and
radiotherapies.
Now, when a person is not usingtraditional chemo or
radiotherapy, glutathione isincredibly important for, like
we talked about at thebeginning, a function of the
(15:09):
mitochondria.
And there are some cells in ourbody that are really very good
at managing cancer that dorequire healthy mitochondrial
function.
And those are our white bloodcells.
And so when we have nice,healthy glutathione levels, then
our white blood cells, and inparticular our cytotoxic T
(15:29):
lymphocytes and our naturalkiller cells and our dendritic
cells, these guys can do theirjob much more efficiently.
And so in that way, glutathionedoes help with slowing the
growth of cancer, withpreventing cancer, and with
preventing cancer recurrence.
Ivelisse Page (15:48):
Okay, very interesting, and I'm glad you
differentiated the differencebetween someone in treatment and
someone out of treatment.
And that's also another reasonwhy having an integrative
practitioner like yourself alongwith a conventional oncologist
is so important because knowingboth sides and knowing these
therapies so well, you'll beable to guide and direct
(16:09):
patients when to use thosemedicines in the best way
possible.
So I appreciate you sharing thatso we know when it should not be
used.
Are there any side effects orrisks with taking glutathione?
Dr. Lindsay Adrian (16:24):
So because glutathione should be an
incredibly abundant antioxidantin our body, taking glutathione
has very few risks.
Now there are sort of twocaveats that I see clinically.
One of those is that glutathioneis a very high sulfur containing
nutrient and some people aresensitive to sulfur and have a
(16:48):
little bit of a hard timeprocessing extra sulfur.
There is a nutrient calledmolybdenum, which is one of my
favorite words to say,molybdenum.
so, this is a trace mineral thatif you are deficient in it, then
you have a harder time breakingdown sulfur compounds.
So, if somebody is molybdenumdeficient, then they might
(17:12):
experience things like somenausea, or a flushed face,
similar if you think about howsome people look when they drink
wine, right?
They get a little flushed, theycan get a little dizzy maybe,
they can get a little bitnauseous, and those would be
some sulfur sensitivitysymptoms.
Typically, I give molybdenum fora couple of weeks, and then they
(17:35):
can tolerate those sulfurcompounds much better.
So that's one.
The other, and this isn't talkedabout so much, very often, but
this is my patient population inparticular.
I tend to work with a lot ofpeople who not only have cancer
or have a history of cancer, buthave this complex chronic
disease picture.
And that can be anything fromchronic infections to various
(17:58):
environmental toxins.
And I find that every now andthen, somebody will take some
glutathione and it stirs thepot.
So because glutathione is such astrong detox support with that
liver conjugation, if you've gotsomebody that's had very
sluggish detoxification andthey've bioaccumulated a bunch
(18:21):
of junk, and then all of asudden you're pushing those
detox pathways, if they haven'tgot a, if their system isn't
ready for that, if their otherdetox pathways, their bowels,
their kidneys, all of thoseother supportive pathways that
work with glutathione, if thosearen't functioning very well,
(18:41):
it's a little bit like you'vetaken a rain barrel where
there's a bunch of sludge on thebottom and you've just shaken it
up, and the whole barrel justlooks messy.
That's that sort of detoxreaction to glutathione.
And to me, that's notnecessarily a bad thing.
It's just a frustrating thing,but it's shown us that there is
(19:03):
in fact a bunch of sludge and wehave some work to do to get it
out.
It just means that I need topull back on the glutathione,
open up all those detoxpathways, and then very gently
and slowly reintroduce thatsupport.
Ivelisse Page (19:18):
Okay.
That's great.
You explain things so well.
I love it.
I'm a very visual person.
So hearing all your visuals, Ilike, I got it.
I get it.
So thank you.
Dr. Lindsay Adrian (19:28):
That's what I love.
I love for people to reallyunderstand why and how and how
their body works with all ofthese things.
Ivelisse Page (19:37):
And I know that eating the whole food is always
best and I know that we can getselenium and all these other
minerals and nutrients fromfood.
Are there natural sources ofglutathione that we can be aware
of to add to our diets?
Dr. Lindsay Adrian (19:50):
So because glutathione is made in our body,
there's very few sources ofdietary glutathione.
But there is research to showthat our glutathione levels
naturally increase when we eatcertain foods.
Those foods tend to be cysteineand methionine containing foods.
For those individuals whotolerate dairy, there is great
(20:13):
benefit to a nice hydrolyzed,easy to digest source of dairy
protein.
So like a hydrolyzed whey, areally nice clean Greek yogurt
that doesn't have a whole bunchof sugar in it.
Those are typically the sourcesof dairy proteins that I
suggest, but there's definitelyevidence that shows that good
(20:35):
clean dairy will increaseglutathione.
I've also seen some research onthings like nuts and seeds that
are nice and high in vitamin Eand some of those good healthy
fats and are also quite high ina lot of those minerals, those
little microtrace minerals.
They also seem to increaseglutathione levels, but overall
(20:57):
I find it's that whole foods,getting all of your nutrients,
giving your body everything itneeds to be able to support that
normal healthy production that,that gives us that.
Ivelisse Page (21:11):
Okay, that's great.
And I've actually shared withyou today like things that I've
heard and from other physiciansor my personal experience with
it, but what has been yourpersonal experience within your
practice on the best use ofglutathione with the cancer
patients that you help.
Dr. Lindsay Adrian (21:29):
So, you know, I'm glad you asked this
question cause this is where Iget very jazzed.
Okay.
And we talked briefly about thispast summer.
It was so nice to get to spendsome time with you.
And for those of you that don'tknow, Ivelisse and I not only
were in the beautiful country ofEcuador in South America, but we
spent many hours on a bustogether.
(21:52):
Yes, There was plenty ofopportunity to get to chat.
But you know where I mostly useglutathione with my cancer
patients is actually insurvivorship and secondary
prevention because most of thetime people come into my
practice having a diagnosis ofcancer.
(22:12):
Most of the time it's arelatively new diagnosis and
they're about to undergo all ofthose very important therapies
that I can't use glutathioneduring, right?
I can't use it during chemo orradiotherapy.
So I'm not using it at thebeginning necessarily.
(22:32):
And I'll give you a couple ofexamples of where I can sneak it
in, but most of my patients willgo through their primary
therapies, right, their primarytreatment.
We walk that path together.
I help them with other nutrientsto try to manage the side
effects of therapies and healwell, and all those wonderful
(22:53):
things that I'm sure yourlisteners have had lots of
great, podcast content on.
And, and then afterwards,typically, I start about one
month after chemotherapy isfinished, because that's when
the physiological effects ofchemo are finishing.
But what I find is at thatpoint, I like to do this really
(23:16):
nice evaluation of organicacids.
I do testing for our terrain,right?
The soil.
I love some of the philosophiesin Believe Big about, you know,
really getting a sense for thehealth of the soil in the person
and the health of the soil inthe planet and how they're, you
know, so integral to health andwellbeing.
(23:38):
So I use testing to assess thatsoil.
And I look to see if there's anyparticular toxins that have
potentially been part of thiscancer process and the
carcinogenesis process.
And unfortunately, in the vastmajority of people who get
cancer, there are those present.
(23:59):
And in particular in my youngpatients.
I would say every one of myyoung patients who develops
cancer, even if there aregenetic conditions like Lynch or
BRCA gene mutations, there'salways a trigger for that
cellular damage.
And so my job at that point isseeing if those triggers are
(24:19):
still present.
And then helping people toeliminate those triggers.
And so glutathione, like I'vejust mentioned, is so helpful
for eliminating toxins, but alsorepairing that mitochondria
because chemotherapy,radiotherapy, targeted
therapies, they in some peoplewith some types of cancer are
(24:42):
necessary evils.
And we have to use all of themost appropriate tools to
support people.
And sometimes that means thosebig drugs.
Those drugs are important, butthey are not without
consequence.
And that's the other area whereglutathione is really helpful.
So it repairs damage, itsupports the healing of the
(25:05):
healthy cells themselves, and itreinvigorates the white blood
cells and the immune cells.
So we've got this lovely,healthy surveillance system that
is sort of rebooted in a nice,quick way post treatment.
So, again, in cancer, typicallyI'm using it for repair and then
(25:26):
elimination of all of thosevarious toxins that were part of
the cancer process or might haveworsened things like
inflammation and damage, and sowe're using it that way.
Now, in the very occasionalpopulations that I get where I
have patients who come in andthey've been diagnosed, a good
(25:48):
example is something like a lowgrade prostate cancer, where,
the patient is in what's calledwatch and wait.
We know cancer is there, butthey're not concerned enough to
be going in and cutting orblasting away at it yet.
This is actually a lovely goldenopportunity to get in with these
(26:11):
nutrients and glutathione is agreat one, to try to get that
immune system functioning reallywell.
To try to evaluate and eliminateany of the triggers that were
involved in the formation ofthose cancer cells, and
generally to make that person ashealthy and robust and
cellularly resilient as humanlypossible, so that if and when
(26:34):
they have to go through surgery,chemotherapy, radiotherapy, that
the healthy cells of their bodyare very well equipped to handle
that big exposure.
Ivelisse Page (26:45):
Well, Dr.
Adrian, I have written down,I've just been writing notes and
notes down.
The information you've sharedtoday has been just so
incredible and I reallyappreciate you taking the time
to be with us today and sharingwith us about the importance of
glutathione either posttreatment or in other
(27:06):
circumstances.
And so I really appreciate yourknowledge and everything that
you've shared with us today.
And, just grateful for you andall that you do for cancer
patients every day.
So thank you so much for joiningus today.
Dr. Lindsay Adrian (27:21):
Thank you so much for having me, Ivelisse.
It's just lovely to chat withyou.
Ivelisse Page (27:31):
If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to
help support our podcast, pleasesubscribe and share it with
others.
Be sure to visit believebig.orgto access the show notes and
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Thanks again and keep BelievingBig!
Hi, I'm Ivelisse Page, and thanks for listening
to the Believe Big Podcast, theshow where we take a deep dive
into your healing with healthexperts, integrative
practitioners, biblical faithleaders, and cancer thrivers
from around the globe.
(00:34):
Welcome to today's episode onthe Believe Big podcast.
My name is Ivelisse Page, andit's an honor to be with you
today.
There are so many things tolearn about when you're working
through a cancer diagnosis, andthat includes medications,
therapies, supplements, and manyother things.
Glutathione is something thatyou may or may not have heard
(00:54):
about.
Today, we have one of ourintegrative physician friends,
Dr.
Lindsay Adrian, from the PortMoody Health in British
Columbia, Canada, to talk to usabout glutathione and what
health benefits it can offer.
Dr.
Adrian is a naturopathicphysician specializing in
integrative cancer care andchronic conditions.
(01:15):
She holds an undergraduatedegree in chemistry, a graduate
of Boucher Institute ofNaturopathic Medicine, an active
member of the OncologyAssociation of Naturopathic
Physicians, and is a fellow tothe Association of the College
of Naturopathic Oncology.
She is married with threewonderful children and loves
(01:37):
rowing on the Fraser River andplaying soccer.
Welcome, Dr.
Adrian, to the show.
Dr. Lindsay Adrian (01:44):
Thank you very much, Ivelisse.
It's lovely to be here.
Ivelisse Page (01:48):
Well, as you know, our listeners are always
interested in discovering whatour guest's favorite health tip
is.
I am sure you have many, but canyou share one with us?
Dr. Lindsay Adrian (01:58):
Absolutely.
You know, I think a lot of thetimes we forget about the simple
things and, and I thinksometimes we undervalue some of
the simple things.
And so one of my favorite tipsis deep belly breathing.
And I think oftentimes, peoplehear about deep breathing and
they feel like sometimes they'rebeing minimized when they're
(02:19):
told to breathe through some oftheir challenges.
And I think that comes from nothaving a really great
explanation of why.
And so I just want to brieflyshare biochemistry because
that's what really gets mejazzed.
And so when we take this bigbelly breath, there's this big
shelf of muscle called ourdiaphragm, and that muscle is
(02:39):
flattened.
It pulls down.
But we have this lovely bignerve called our vagus nerve
that travels from our brainstempast our esophagus and our heart
and our lungs past our stomachand our liver and gallbladder
and into our intestines and thatvagus nerve is tethered to that
shelf of muscle, that, thatdiaphragm.
(03:01):
And so when you take your deepbreath, that vagus nerve is
pulled nice and tight and itvibrates right up into your
brain.
And it's this sneaky backdoorway to tell your brain to go
into parasympathetic mode andparasympathetic is our rest,
digest and repair.
And so I always say you can'tyell at the gerbil to get off
(03:22):
the wheel when we're stressedand we're overwhelmed.
Convincing yourself to calm downdoesn't work, but you can sort
of sneaky back door into thatnice rest, digest, repair with
deep belly breathing.
Ivelisse Page (03:36):
Wow.
I have never heard that it wasassociated with your vagus nerve
and how important that is.
And so thank you for showing usand telling us about that cause
I had never heard that I'veheard the benefits of breathing.
And even as you were speaking, Iwas"take deep breaths, Ivelisse,
take deep breaths." And it is sotrue that it really helps our
bodies to get into that rest andrepair mode.
(03:58):
But thank you for sharing that.
I know that it'll be a great tipfor everyone.
So for those listening who don'tknow about glutathione, can you
share with us what it is and itsmost important functions?
Dr. Lindsay Adrian (04:10):
Oh my, okay, well, how about I start with
what it is.
So glutathione is an amino acidthat our body makes.
Some people are really efficientat making it and other people
are genetically a little slower,have a little harder time making
it.
Glutathione is our masterantioxidant.
So it is used in most of thetissues in your entire body.
(04:34):
It's incredibly important forquenching free radicals.
and reactive oxygen species.
and probably from myperspective, one of its biggest
roles is as our sort ofmitochondrial repair regulator.
And, and so glutathione isabsolutely imperative for
healthy mitochondrial function.
(04:56):
And for those people who haven'theard that word, mitochondria is
not just the powerhouse of thecell, which is what I think a
lot of us learn in high schoolscience.
but it's also sort of thismaster regulator of all of our
cellular functions.
So it needs to be healthy androbust and work well.
Ivelisse Page (05:15):
Yeah.
This summer, this past summerwhen we were both at a
conference in Ecuador, I washaving a bit of elevation
sickness and just worn down fromtravel.
And you gave me a great littleglutathione packet that you
travel with.
And I mean, incredibly, itreally helped me.
So can you share why you travelwith these packets and do you
have a specific brand that yourecommend or prefer?
Dr. Lindsay Adrian (05:37):
So, I traveled specifically this time
with some glutathione because Iknew that we were going to be
experiencing some very highelevations.
And with those high elevations,we're not having great oxygen
delivery to our tissues.
That's why we often have thosesymptoms of headache and nausea
and dizziness andbreathlessness.
(05:59):
And so when our tissue has notenough oxygen, it makes lactic
acid.
And that lactic acid can comewith it a bunch of cellular
injury and damage.
And so the glutathione was thereto try to repair those cells,
also to make it so that theoxygen that we were getting was
(06:19):
able to be used more efficientlyby our mitochondria to make
energy.
When it comes to brands, thereare a few great ones out there.
I'm from Canada and so thebrands that we have here are a
little different than some ofthe brands you can get in the U
S, but the big thing withglutathione is that it's a large
molecule, so it is not veryeasily absorbed, so when people
(06:42):
are looking at sources forglutathione, it needs to be from
a company that understands howto make it bioavailable.
Glutathione off the shelf atyour local health food store is
probably going to come out thesame way it went in and not very
much of it will be absorbed inyour tissues.
So I am very picky about makingsure that the brands are
(07:05):
lipolyzed, which means wrappedin a fat.
Or, you know, some other way ofmaking the glutathione itself as
bioavailable as humanlypossible.
Ivelisse Page (07:15):
Okay, that's a great tip.
And if you do have some, brandsthat maybe I can check into, I
can put those links in the shownotes for people to check out
because it is so important, notonly the item, but the quality
of it.
And like you said, thebioavailable, availability, and
I'm sure people will be askingabout that.
Dr. Lindsay Adrian (07:33):
My favorites are the Trifortify by Research
Nutritionals.
and theirs probably tastes thebest out of all the ones I've
had.
And then actually there's aproduct by Designs for Health,
and I know that they areaccessible in both the US and
Canada.
And they have a very goodproduct as well.
Ivelisse Page (07:51):
Okay.
And so you mentioned about ifyou take something off the shelf
and you're eating it and it'sgoing to go out the same way it
came in, recently, as manypeople know, I had a cancer
diagnosis and I had to go in fora CT scan and it was with
contrast and I was told that tohave a 25 milligrams of high
(08:14):
dose IV vitamin C, and then todo a glutathione push in order
to help push out the contrastout of my body quicker.
Is that something that you wouldrecommend also, you know, with
the physician's approval ofcourse for each patient, but is
that something that yourecommend as well for your
patients when they have to gothrough a CT scan or a PET scan?
Dr. Lindsay Adrian (08:38):
Yeah.
So a couple of things there,glutathione does have such low
bioavailability by mouth.
And so when you're working withan integrative practitioner who
has access to IV therapies,absolutely the most useful way
to use glutathione isintravenously because we're
bypassing that gut absorptionand getting a hundred percent of
(09:00):
that glutathione that's goinginto your body into your tissues
themselves.
The other part of it is actuallythe other aspects of glutathione
usefulness, which is your detoxpathways.
And so, for me, I'm mostly usingglutathione for that
physiological improvement incellular function.
(09:21):
And then obviously when youimprove liver cells function or
kidney cells function, you'regoing to improve detox sort of
indirectly in that way, butglutathione has additional
mechanistic support throughdirect, detox pathways.
So what that means is that inour liver when we have toxins
that enter our body and whetherthat's a contrast dye, whether
(09:43):
that's the pesticides orherbicides in our food, whether
that's the, you know, gasolineemissions that are in our smog
every day, these molecules comeinto our blood and then go
through the liver and then theliver has a few different
pathways that it can use to sortof label that as a toxin and
label it for elimination.
(10:06):
I'm a very visual person, as youknow, and so I think about this
labeling like the liver pinninga tail on all of these toxins as
they come through.
And so it's like you've got agroup of kids playing pin the
tail on the donkey and they'reall, you know, running around
labeling these toxins with thesedifferent tails.
(10:28):
And then those tails dictatethat molecule that's in the
blood should get moved into thebowel or moved through the
kidneys for elimination.
One of those tails isglutathione.
And that's a pathway calledglutathione conjugation.
And so it's one of the manyphenomenal uses for this
(10:49):
nutrient.
So that's what's happening withthe contrast dye.
Glutathione is great for helpingto tag out that dye as the toxin
that it is can help your bodyeliminate it.
And it'll also help repair anyof the oxidative damage that dye
may have created while it wasbeing used.
Ivelisse Page (11:11):
Okay, and could someone do that before the scan
or do you recommend post?
Dr. Lindsay Adrian (11:17):
You know, because glutathione is a
nutrient that's kind of in andout relatively quickly and the
administration of glutathionecan be a little bit tricky, I do
use it if somebody has easyaccess to IVs, I would use it
the day before.
Four and then probably a coupleof times a week, for a week to
(11:37):
two weeks after depending on aperson's kidney function.
But there's also a precursornutrient to glutathione called
n-acetylcysteine.
Your body uses n-acetylcysteineto make glutathione.
It's sort of the rate limitingnutrient.
And although glutathione is veryhard to absorb, n-acetylcysteine
(12:00):
is very easy to absorb, and soit's a great sort of daily
alternative.
And we actually have phenomenalclinical trial data proving that
n-acetylcysteine protects thekidneys, in particular, from our
radioactively labeled contrastagents.
So not just the dyes, but alsothe radioactively labeled
(12:23):
agents.
Ivelisse Page (12:24):
Thank you, that is so interesting.
Is there anything such asglutathione deficiency and is
that something that should beconsidered for people with a
chronic illness or cancer?
Dr. Lindsay Adrian (12:34):
Yeah, so glutathione, like I said, your
body makes it, but there arelots of things that increase its
need.
And then there are lots ofthings that block our ability to
make it efficiently.
And so, you know, in our perfectworld with our lovely healthy
bodies and our excellentlyfunctioning genes, you're never
going to be glutathionedeficient.
(12:56):
But in our world that has lotsof toxins, which requires lots
of glutathione conjugation, lotsof glutathione use for quenching
those free radicals, andespecially if we're in a
nutrient deprived state, thosesorts of things can make it so
we don't have enough glutathioneto be doing all the jobs that it
(13:17):
needs.
And then again, when we throw ineach individual person's genetic
ability to make it and torecycle it, because that's the
other fun part aboutglutathione, we can actually use
the same molecule over and overagain, as the glutathione is
oxidized when it takes on someof those reactive oxygen
(13:39):
species, and then it getsreduced again.
And there are nutrients likevitamin C, zinc, selenium, a
whole host of B vitamins.
All of these things help supportthe healthy, normal redox
capacity or recycling capacityof glutathione.
Ivelisse Page (13:59):
That's incredible.
And I read that it also helps toslow the progression of cancer.
Is that true?
Or how does it do that?
Dr. Lindsay Adrian (14:06):
So this is where we get a little bit
sticky.
And so this is this is where Iput my giant, you know, flashing
caution sign up a little bit.
Because glutathione is depletedby the vast majority of our
conventional cancer treatments,but it also interferes with
(14:26):
pretty much every one of ourconventional cancer treatments.
So there is a very big, strong"must".
We must not use glutathioneduring chemotherapy or
radiotherapy.
It is an absolutecontraindication and an absolute
no, same with glutathione'sprecursor N-acetylcysteine.
(14:49):
Both of these are the type ofantioxidants that directly
interfere with the function oftraditional chemotherapies and
radiotherapies.
Now, when a person is not usingtraditional chemo or
radiotherapy, glutathione isincredibly important for, like
we talked about at thebeginning, a function of the
(15:09):
mitochondria.
And there are some cells in ourbody that are really very good
at managing cancer that dorequire healthy mitochondrial
function.
And those are our white bloodcells.
And so when we have nice,healthy glutathione levels, then
our white blood cells, and inparticular our cytotoxic T
(15:29):
lymphocytes and our naturalkiller cells and our dendritic
cells, these guys can do theirjob much more efficiently.
And so in that way, glutathionedoes help with slowing the
growth of cancer, withpreventing cancer, and with
preventing cancer recurrence.
Ivelisse Page (15:48):
Okay, very interesting, and I'm glad you
differentiated the differencebetween someone in treatment and
someone out of treatment.
And that's also another reasonwhy having an integrative
practitioner like yourself alongwith a conventional oncologist
is so important because knowingboth sides and knowing these
therapies so well, you'll beable to guide and direct
(16:09):
patients when to use thosemedicines in the best way
possible.
So I appreciate you sharing thatso we know when it should not be
used.
Are there any side effects orrisks with taking glutathione?
Dr. Lindsay Adrian (16:24):
So because glutathione should be an
incredibly abundant antioxidantin our body, taking glutathione
has very few risks.
Now there are sort of twocaveats that I see clinically.
One of those is that glutathioneis a very high sulfur containing
nutrient and some people aresensitive to sulfur and have a
(16:48):
little bit of a hard timeprocessing extra sulfur.
There is a nutrient calledmolybdenum, which is one of my
favorite words to say,molybdenum.
so, this is a trace mineral thatif you are deficient in it, then
you have a harder time breakingdown sulfur compounds.
So, if somebody is molybdenumdeficient, then they might
(17:12):
experience things like somenausea, or a flushed face,
similar if you think about howsome people look when they drink
wine, right?
They get a little flushed, theycan get a little dizzy maybe,
they can get a little bitnauseous, and those would be
some sulfur sensitivitysymptoms.
Typically, I give molybdenum fora couple of weeks, and then they
(17:35):
can tolerate those sulfurcompounds much better.
So that's one.
The other, and this isn't talkedabout so much, very often, but
this is my patient population inparticular.
I tend to work with a lot ofpeople who not only have cancer
or have a history of cancer, buthave this complex chronic
disease picture.
And that can be anything fromchronic infections to various
(17:58):
environmental toxins.
And I find that every now andthen, somebody will take some
glutathione and it stirs thepot.
So because glutathione is such astrong detox support with that
liver conjugation, if you've gotsomebody that's had very
sluggish detoxification andthey've bioaccumulated a bunch
(18:21):
of junk, and then all of asudden you're pushing those
detox pathways, if they haven'tgot a, if their system isn't
ready for that, if their otherdetox pathways, their bowels,
their kidneys, all of thoseother supportive pathways that
work with glutathione, if thosearen't functioning very well,
(18:41):
it's a little bit like you'vetaken a rain barrel where
there's a bunch of sludge on thebottom and you've just shaken it
up, and the whole barrel justlooks messy.
That's that sort of detoxreaction to glutathione.
And to me, that's notnecessarily a bad thing.
It's just a frustrating thing,but it's shown us that there is
(19:03):
in fact a bunch of sludge and wehave some work to do to get it
out.
It just means that I need topull back on the glutathione,
open up all those detoxpathways, and then very gently
and slowly reintroduce thatsupport.
Ivelisse Page (19:18):
Okay.
That's great.
You explain things so well.
I love it.
I'm a very visual person.
So hearing all your visuals, Ilike, I got it.
I get it.
So thank you.
Dr. Lindsay Adrian (19:28):
That's what I love.
I love for people to reallyunderstand why and how and how
their body works with all ofthese things.
Ivelisse Page (19:37):
And I know that eating the whole food is always
best and I know that we can getselenium and all these other
minerals and nutrients fromfood.
Are there natural sources ofglutathione that we can be aware
of to add to our diets?
Dr. Lindsay Adrian (19:50):
So because glutathione is made in our body,
there's very few sources ofdietary glutathione.
But there is research to showthat our glutathione levels
naturally increase when we eatcertain foods.
Those foods tend to be cysteineand methionine containing foods.
For those individuals whotolerate dairy, there is great
(20:13):
benefit to a nice hydrolyzed,easy to digest source of dairy
protein.
So like a hydrolyzed whey, areally nice clean Greek yogurt
that doesn't have a whole bunchof sugar in it.
Those are typically the sourcesof dairy proteins that I
suggest, but there's definitelyevidence that shows that good
(20:35):
clean dairy will increaseglutathione.
I've also seen some research onthings like nuts and seeds that
are nice and high in vitamin Eand some of those good healthy
fats and are also quite high ina lot of those minerals, those
little microtrace minerals.
They also seem to increaseglutathione levels, but overall
(20:57):
I find it's that whole foods,getting all of your nutrients,
giving your body everything itneeds to be able to support that
normal healthy production that,that gives us that.
Ivelisse Page (21:11):
Okay, that's great.
And I've actually shared withyou today like things that I've
heard and from other physiciansor my personal experience with
it, but what has been yourpersonal experience within your
practice on the best use ofglutathione with the cancer
patients that you help.
Dr. Lindsay Adrian (21:29):
So, you know, I'm glad you asked this
question cause this is where Iget very jazzed.
Okay.
And we talked briefly about thispast summer.
It was so nice to get to spendsome time with you.
And for those of you that don'tknow, Ivelisse and I not only
were in the beautiful country ofEcuador in South America, but we
spent many hours on a bustogether.
(21:52):
Yes, There was plenty ofopportunity to get to chat.
But you know where I mostly useglutathione with my cancer
patients is actually insurvivorship and secondary
prevention because most of thetime people come into my
practice having a diagnosis ofcancer.
(22:12):
Most of the time it's arelatively new diagnosis and
they're about to undergo all ofthose very important therapies
that I can't use glutathioneduring, right?
I can't use it during chemo orradiotherapy.
So I'm not using it at thebeginning necessarily.
(22:32):
And I'll give you a couple ofexamples of where I can sneak it
in, but most of my patients willgo through their primary
therapies, right, their primarytreatment.
We walk that path together.
I help them with other nutrientsto try to manage the side
effects of therapies and healwell, and all those wonderful
(22:53):
things that I'm sure yourlisteners have had lots of
great, podcast content on.
And, and then afterwards,typically, I start about one
month after chemotherapy isfinished, because that's when
the physiological effects ofchemo are finishing.
But what I find is at thatpoint, I like to do this really
(23:16):
nice evaluation of organicacids.
I do testing for our terrain,right?
The soil.
I love some of the philosophiesin Believe Big about, you know,
really getting a sense for thehealth of the soil in the person
and the health of the soil inthe planet and how they're, you
know, so integral to health andwellbeing.
(23:38):
So I use testing to assess thatsoil.
And I look to see if there's anyparticular toxins that have
potentially been part of thiscancer process and the
carcinogenesis process.
And unfortunately, in the vastmajority of people who get
cancer, there are those present.
(23:59):
And in particular in my youngpatients.
I would say every one of myyoung patients who develops
cancer, even if there aregenetic conditions like Lynch or
BRCA gene mutations, there'salways a trigger for that
cellular damage.
And so my job at that point isseeing if those triggers are
(24:19):
still present.
And then helping people toeliminate those triggers.
And so glutathione, like I'vejust mentioned, is so helpful
for eliminating toxins, but alsorepairing that mitochondria
because chemotherapy,radiotherapy, targeted
therapies, they in some peoplewith some types of cancer are
(24:42):
necessary evils.
And we have to use all of themost appropriate tools to
support people.
And sometimes that means thosebig drugs.
Those drugs are important, butthey are not without
consequence.
And that's the other area whereglutathione is really helpful.
So it repairs damage, itsupports the healing of the
(25:05):
healthy cells themselves, and itreinvigorates the white blood
cells and the immune cells.
So we've got this lovely,healthy surveillance system that
is sort of rebooted in a nice,quick way post treatment.
So, again, in cancer, typicallyI'm using it for repair and then
(25:26):
elimination of all of thosevarious toxins that were part of
the cancer process or might haveworsened things like
inflammation and damage, and sowe're using it that way.
Now, in the very occasionalpopulations that I get where I
have patients who come in andthey've been diagnosed, a good
(25:48):
example is something like a lowgrade prostate cancer, where,
the patient is in what's calledwatch and wait.
We know cancer is there, butthey're not concerned enough to
be going in and cutting orblasting away at it yet.
This is actually a lovely goldenopportunity to get in with these
(26:11):
nutrients and glutathione is agreat one, to try to get that
immune system functioning reallywell.
To try to evaluate and eliminateany of the triggers that were
involved in the formation ofthose cancer cells, and
generally to make that person ashealthy and robust and
cellularly resilient as humanlypossible, so that if and when
(26:34):
they have to go through surgery,chemotherapy, radiotherapy, that
the healthy cells of their bodyare very well equipped to handle
that big exposure.
Ivelisse Page (26:45):
Well, Dr.
Adrian, I have written down,I've just been writing notes and
notes down.
The information you've sharedtoday has been just so
incredible and I reallyappreciate you taking the time
to be with us today and sharingwith us about the importance of
glutathione either posttreatment or in other
(27:06):
circumstances.
And so I really appreciate yourknowledge and everything that
you've shared with us today.
And, just grateful for you andall that you do for cancer
patients every day.
So thank you so much for joiningus today.
Dr. Lindsay Adrian (27:21):
Thank you so much for having me, Ivelisse.
It's just lovely to chat withyou.
Ivelisse Page (27:31):
If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to
help support our podcast, pleasesubscribe and share it with
others.
Be sure to visit believebig.orgto access the show notes and
discover our bonus content.
Thanks again and keep BelievingBig!
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