September 10, 2024 • 32 mins
Welcome to Season 3 of the Believe Big Podcast! We have a FANTASTIC guest to kick off this new season of episodes, Tomek Wyczesany!
Tomek is a mental health expert who combines neuroscience, cognitive science, and ancient wisdom to offer a holistic take on well-being.
He shares a timeless health tip: "know thyself" across physical, mental, and spiritual levels, especially valuable for those facing challenges like cancer. Tomek also offers simple advice on beginning your mindfulness journey through relaxation.
Learn the difference between mindfulness and meditation, and how these practices can help you reconnect with your inner self.
Learn more about Tomek on his website:
https://tomekwyczesany.com/
Suggested Resources:
- Insight Timer app
- Tomek's profile on Insight Timer
- Tomek on Instagram
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ivelisse Page (00:06):
Hi, I'm Ivelisse Page, and thanks for listening
to the Believe Big podcast, theshow where we take a deep dive
into your healing with healthexperts, integrative
practitioners, biblical faithleaders, and cancer thrivers
from around the globe.
(00:34):
Welcome to today's episode onthe Believe Big podcast.
My name is Ivelisse Page, andit's always a pleasure to be
with you here.
I am very excited about today'spodcast guest.
Our friend Tomek Wyczesany is amental health and well-being
expert with a doctorate from theUniversity of Sydney.
(00:55):
With a unique approach rooted inneuroscience, cognitive science,
and mindfulness, he incorporatesvarious wisdom traditions to
offer a holistic perspective onwell being.
Tomek's expertise spans over 20years of meditation practice,
during which he has helpedthousands of individuals
(01:16):
transform their lives.
His meditations, available onInsight Timer, have gathered
over 4 million plays, testifyingto their profound impact.
Tomek specializes in usingmindfulness modalities to expand
the consciousness of hisclients, guiding them towards
managing stress, improving sleepand enhancing their everyday
(01:41):
well-being.
Through individualized coaching,Tomek empowers his clients to
achieve meaningfultransformation, leveraging his
extensive knowledge andexperience to facilitate
personal growth and well-being.
He is currently based in thebeautiful sunshine coast of
Australia.
Welcome to the show Tomek.
Tomek Wyczesany (02:03):
Thank you so much for having me.
It's a pleasure to be here.
Ivelisse Page (02:07):
Well, we always like to know what our guest's
favorite health tip is, and I'msure you have many, but can you
share one with us?
Tomek Wyczesany (02:14):
Thank you.
It's a tough question.
And when I thought about it theone tip that, is most important
to me is actually two and a halfthousand years old, and it's
inscribed on the temple ofApollo in Delphi, ancient Greece
or Greece, but it started twoand a half thousand years ago.
(02:37):
And that tip is simply to knowthyself.
And perhaps this might soundvague because when we hear about
health tips, we rely on someexternal sources, maybe I don't
know, doing something or eatingsomething, but for me, and I
(03:01):
hope you get to know me a bitbetter through this podcast.
The most important thing is toget to know yourself on all the
levels, the physical level, themental level, psychological
level, and even spiritual level.
And they all combine into onewhole.
(03:22):
And I think it's not only ahealth tip, but a life's mission
of everyone to know themselvesbetter and better.
And through that, we can bettermanage our health, not only
physical health, but mentalhealth and simply live more
(03:44):
happy, more fulfilled life.
And I can imagine this issomething that is of importance
to the listeners, to everyone,but also for people who are
dealing with a cancer diagnosis.
And it might be difficult forthem to hear something.
What do you mean?
Know that, know myself, why thisis important.
(04:06):
But I think before taking anytreatments and it's important to
recognize what is happeningwithin your body and mind.
And maybe that's that's to startoff with.
Ivelisse Page (04:18):
Yeah.
I love that you shared thatbecause I think many times I
call in our world today, we arein a hurry sickness running from
one thing to the next, and we'renot really taking time to look
within ourselves to say, what doI need to let go of?
You know, what do I need to addmore of in my life?
What are some things, boundariesthat I may need to place to
(04:40):
really help myself move forwardin the next months or, you know,
as I begin this cancer journey?
And it's an area that manypeople do not focus on.
And so that's why I'm so gladthat you're with us here today
to really shed light on this sovery, very important aspect of
our health.
And so let's begin.
(05:01):
I would really I would love foryou to explain, because some
listeners are new to mindfulnessand meditation, and they might
not even know what thedifference is between them.
Can you share what thedifference is between
mindfulness and meditation?
Tomek Wyczesany (05:17):
Yeah, thank you for this question.
Well, mindfulness is beingpresent to whatever there is
with the not judgmentalattitude.
And meditation the way Iunderstand it.
And again everybody is entitledto their own opinions through
(05:39):
their own direct experience is astate where we contemplate and
explore certain aspects of theself through awareness.
A lot of times people whenhearing mindfulness, meditation
(06:02):
they look at it in the same way.
But I think it's important torecognize that we can be mindful
at any given moment of the day.
Being, either being, simplybeing, or performing any task.
And usually meditation is moresuitable for internal
(06:25):
exploration where we mostlyfocus on the internalized
landscape, and we might, itmight be helpful to close your
eyes and do it this way.
However, in both cases.
The emphasis is the way Iunderstand it and the way I
teach and practice it myself ison the internal exploration of
(06:48):
our inner landscape thatconsists of so many different
things and allows us, as youbeautifully pointed out, to slow
down the one quote unquote sensethat is so dominant in our lives
these days is thinking.
So, we live in times where weare completely dominated, and
(07:15):
identified with our thinkingprocess.
And I can speak from my ownexperience because I am a
scientist and spent I don'tknow, almost 20 years in
academia exploring differentexperiments and exploring
scientific methods.
So certainly I use my mind, butI also know that this very mind
can get in a way of the processof slowing down and knowing
(07:40):
yourself.
'cause knowing yourself from theperspective of the mind, as it
turns out, is only one anglethat we can take.
And that there's so much more.
And both meditation as a way ofexploration and mindfulness as a
way of interacting with yourconsciousness and awareness
(08:03):
being in the present moment in anon judgmental way.
They both are very helpful toolson that path.
Ivelisse Page (08:11):
Yes, I completely agree.
For people who like analogies,I, I figure mindfulness is more
when I go for a walk without myphone and I notice the birds
chirping, I notice the treeschanging colors.
You taste that delicious darkchocolate and you are really in
that moment enjoying.
(08:32):
And so it's really being in thatmoment like you shared versus
meditation for me as aChristian, I meditate on
scripture.
I visualize prayers and thingslike that, that can really help
me to be more at peace and bemore focused in my prayer life.
So, So I love how you explainthat.
What drew you to mindfulnesspractices and how have you
(08:56):
shaped your personal, how hasthat shaped your personal and
professional life?
Tomek Wyczesany (09:02):
I think I'm not very original here, but my path
with looking into myself throughthe lens of mindfulness and
meditation started with my ownpersonal struggle.
So, as the listeners may hear,English is not my first
language.
(09:22):
I moved from my from Poland, mycountry of origin around 2005 to
learn English and I went toLondon where I started working
and learning English, uh, atthat time, which was very, very,
very poor, but there wasopportunity arose where I could
(09:46):
take a scholarship at UniversityQueen Mary University of London
and start PhD there.
And that was absolutelyfascinating and interesting part
of my life.
But the time I I finished myPhD, I moved to Australia to
finish my PhD.
(10:07):
And by the time I startedfinishing it, I've realized I'm
completely unprepared for thestruggles of the academic life
and writing my thesis.
And my mental healthdeteriorated tremendously.
I was lucky to connect with thecounseling services at the
University of Sydney and, andfind Maria who helped me to
(10:28):
recognize some of the thingsthat are happening and that are
absolutely normal.
But the truth is when thesession finished, I was still
left with one person that I haveto deal with every day of my
life, which is myself.
My next step was, well, maybe Ishould start taking myself more
(10:50):
seriously and look inside whatis happening there.
Because as much as I appreciatehelp of others, again, that
aspect of knowing thyself isultimately the way that to, to
deal with your problems.
And that's where I started.
We had a very small group, whichmight be interested to the
(11:12):
listeners of this podcast.
It started, I was, I was raisedCatholic and for many, many
years the church structure wassupporting my process.
And it was only natural for meto start something which is
derived from Christiantradition, which is the practice
of Centering Prayer.
(11:32):
You are familiar with thescripture in Lectio Divina and
this is part of the, theCentering Prayer, which is
essentially a Christiancontemplative, meditative method
to look inside.
And that's where we started as asmall group.
And out of this group, I thinkwas only three people that
(11:56):
remained and we practiced forabout two years.
But then that struggle withwriting up my thesis and my
mental health and how toapproach life and how to deal
with stress led me much furtherinto, years later, because it
took years before I evenadmitted to anyone that I
(12:17):
practice meditation, but it ledme to expand so much more and to
know myself and to know who I ambetter and consider my vocation,
not necessarily as a scientist.
But someone who supports ascientific method, and this is
(12:38):
very, I want to make adistinction here, science very
often can be used in the sameranks as the religion versus
scientific method is asystematic exploration of, of
anything can be an object, butalso can be yourself.
So, basically, I took myself onthe canvas and started exploring
and out of this, what, what cameout was the fact that I want to
(13:02):
make an impact on people'slives.
And that was not possible inacademia, the way I worked.
And I found that actuallysharing the knowledge that I,
that I shed light through mypersonal practice was the best
way of doing it.
So, so long story short, and toshort answer to your question,
(13:23):
my journey with meditation andmindfulness started with my
personal struggle.
Right there.
Ivelisse Page (13:30):
It's amazing.
Well, first of all, your Englishis excellent, so I really wanted
to mention that.
And also you mentioned LectioDivina, and for those who are
listening who may be unfamiliarwith what Lectio Divina is, it's
a method of scripturemeditation.
It was developed by Benedict inthe 6th century, and what I do,
(13:51):
at least for the Lectio Divina,is I read the Bible passage
three times.
And each time I'm guided by aquestion and it allows me to
enter the passageexperientially, feeling my
emotion, my needs, listening tothe Holy Spirit to speak into my
daily life.
And, those questions are like,what is one word or phrase that
(14:11):
the Holy Spirit impresses uponyour heart?
What do you feel the second timeI read it?
What specific situation in mylife does this relate to?
And the third time I read it, Iasked the question, What's God's
invitation to me from what Ijust read?
And for those of you who wouldlike to know more about it, we
(14:32):
have a Nourishing the SoulHealing Journal at Believe Big,
and we can put a link to it thatcan help you walk through that
process if anyone is interestedin investigating that a little
further.
But thank you so much forsharing your personal story and
I would love to hear from you ifyou could share some key
mindfulness techniques ormodalities that you use in your
(14:55):
practice and how do you decidewhat to use in which situation?
Tomek Wyczesany (15:00):
That's an excellent excellent question.
Back to Lectio Divina and yourway of exploring the words it's
an exploration.
It is an investigation and mostimportantly, it's an inquiry.
And that's how I use varioustechniques and modalities or I
(15:21):
used over the years to approachthe reality of myself, external
reality through differentlenses.
However, as my practice andunderstanding myself evolved, I
started recognizing that it isimportant to look beyond the
(15:42):
technique, and to recognize thattechniques are simply a tools to
put us on the right path.
But once we on this very path,we are our own guide, and that's
very important because thatgives us the right perspective
(16:04):
that empowers us to see that weare, I always, my, something
words I use to describe it, weare the active ingredient.
The one most important,important person in your life
is, is that you love very muchis you, and I think it's very
important to recognize it.
It's not an external factor,it's you.
(16:27):
So, I think humorous way ofexpressing that is be yourself,
because everybody else isalready taken.
And as humorous as it sounds,this is something that, we don't
very frequently do.
We actually look up to othersand we want to be as others.
So in terms of the techniquesand modalities I use, let me
(16:51):
just share one with you thatmaybe is aligned with something
that I started off with and verymuch is aligned with the tone
of, of this podcast and, it is amethod of centering prayer,
which was introduced by FatherThomas Keating and explored and
(17:12):
expanded by Cynthia Bourgeaud,people that I consider mystics
of of the Catholicism.
And they can be traced, thepractice of centering prayer can
be traced all the way to St.
John of the Cross and Teresa ofAvila.
So there's a huge heritage thereto explore.
But I think it was Father ThomasKeating who summarized it in
(17:35):
four R's that I personally usestill in my practice when I find
myself off the rail, so tospeak.
And the four R's of the practiceare very simple, but not easy,
is to resist no thought, reactto no thought, retain no
(18:00):
thought, and return toawareness.
Return to the awareness that youare.
And these words, for years andyears, I simply followed the
instruction.
This is, this was my primarypractice.
(18:22):
And only recently, I recognizewhat those words mean.
Those instructions finally tooka root after all these years.
And I recognize that the mostimportant thing that one can do
in practice is recognize who weare, not on the level of the
(18:46):
thoughts, but on the level ofawareness.
And this is something that isvery easy to miss.
Even though I can guide usthrough awareness practice and
everybody most likely will beable to connect with themselves
of the level of awareness.
The one modality that we trainthe most throughout our lives.
(19:10):
is our thinking and thetransition between being
present, and as you said, goingon a nature walk, tasting a
chocolate, experiencing allthose wonderful things that the
life has to offer.
The transition between beingawareness that tastes and
(19:32):
experiences life to thinkingabout the experience is so
fluid.
It's so flawless that westruggle to catch ourselves when
that happens, simply because wetrain ourselves over the period
of the entire life to do justthat.
So when you again, whether it'spractice of centering prayer or
(19:57):
mantra meditation or focusing onthe breath, this is just the
beginning of the road.
This is the gateway thatultimately leads us to
experience yourself from adifferent point of view.
And I think something that isimportant to me and perhaps
could be of value to thelisteners and and everyone who
(20:20):
goes through their cancerjourney is the transformation
that happens as we continue onthis path.
This is one, from my perspectiveat least, and and I want to
share that.
The one most important thing onthis path is the transformation
(20:43):
that happens as we, usingmindfulness, pay attention to
what is happening within us,within our mind, body, with our
psyche along the way.
So I'm not even even sure wherewe started this.
What was the question?
(21:04):
Clearly you see I'm lost in myown thinking, so maybe I should
listen to myself from time totime and look in the mirror,
like Michael Jackson.
Start with the guy in themirror.
Ivelisse Page (21:14):
I love it.
No, I think it leads into thequestion that I wanted to ask
you because, and you'reabsolutely right.
I believe we are, again, just sobusy in this world.
And even as myself as aChristian for all these years,
I've always had certainpractices that I would do every
morning.
And when I had my last cancerdiagnosis my spiritual director
(21:36):
was saying, you know, I reallywant you to experience your
faith in a different aspect.
I want you to experience prayerin a different way and
experience the Lord in adifferent way.
And it was beautiful because Iwas able to go on those walks
and I was looking for ways tosee God, like you were saying,
what am I smelling?
What am I seeing?
What am I feeling in theflowers?
(21:57):
And, and really seeing creationas such a gift and a miracle.
And then coming back and, andinstead of saying prayers where
I always, I'm always gratefulor, or lifting up requests
right, for healing or whateverit may be.
She encouraged me to be quiet,to not even say a word kind of
like you were saying.
(22:18):
Instead of asking or beingthankful and all these things
which are good practices rightshe goes practice on trying to
be quiet and see if you listento his still small voice
speaking to you and sometimes wemiss it because we're either so
busy or on our own agenda orasking or thanking so that was
(22:38):
just such a beautiful thing andthat reminded me when you were
saying about really lookingwithin ourselves and especially
for cancer patients.
And when you're talking aboutvisualization, that's one of the
key things that I did when I wassick.
You know, you're saying whatyou're experiencing also, it
ties into what your thoughtsare, right?
(22:59):
So, I was injecting thatmistletoe into my abdomen and,
and I actually in my mind, Ipictured the cancer cells being
destroyed by it.
I pictured healthy cells withinmy body growing and energy and
strength and all those thingsare powerful ways that we can
(23:19):
use our minds and our bodiesthat were created to heal in
order to move in that direction.
And so what advice would yougive to someone who's just
beginning this mindfulnessjourney?
They're hearing this today, andit may be for the first time,
and especially someone dealingwith a major illness like
(23:40):
cancer.
Tomek Wyczesany (23:41):
Yeah, that's a, that's a very good question.
Thank you.
Before we jump into meditationand before we start getting the
benefits that everybody ravesabout, my one suggestion, not
necessarily advice, is to learnto relax.
(24:07):
Do not worry about meditation.
Do not worry about mindfulness.
Learn to relax.
The transformation that happensduring the relaxation process,
and you can use breathingmethods, you can do, you can use
any technique, you can do naturework, you can do any way you
like, learn to relax, to giveyour body the chance to come
(24:33):
back to the state of harmony.
Even when I thought about it,even for people with cancer
right now, as we speak, canceris a very small part of the
body.
The vast majority of organsfunction beautifully,
(24:56):
wonderfully.
I, I taught biochemistry andstudied chemistry throughout my
life.
And one of the wonders of what'shappening in your body is the
tapestry of myriads of processesthat are mind blowing, that are
happening right now within you.
(25:18):
They just, they're verydifficult to comprehend.
And even for me, with myexperience, when I look at it,
it's absolutely mind boggling.
And all these processes and moreare happening within your body
as we speak, even if you have acancer diagnosis.
So my question is, what, how canI support my body, internally,
(25:47):
in the process of restoring theinitial balance prior to the
cancer diagnosis?
What happened there and what haschanged?
And the process of knowingthyself includes those factors
of recognizing what has changedin my physical health, mental
(26:09):
health, spiritual health, beforeand now.
And that's where mindfulness canbe helpful.
Sorry, what was your questionagain?
Because I'm, I'm going off therails once again.
Ivelisse Page (26:24):
No, that was excellent.
I just said someone who'sbeginning their mindfulness
journey, you know, especiallydealing with something like
cancer, what advice would yougive them?
Tomek Wyczesany (26:33):
Yeah.
So yeah, that's right.
So back on track.
So relaxation most of the peoplewho listen to my recordings, to
my meditations, they do not comethere to necessarily explore
themselves.
They look for relief and this isadvice that your body give you.
That is very important.
Come and experience relief.
(26:53):
That is moving from dis easeinto ease, from situation that
is stressful, that we know Icould describe here the, you
know, hormonal regulation andyour nervous system regulation
that on the physiological levelis described as stress.
Moving you from that, that youcan feel as a tension in your
(27:17):
body, as a discomfort into astate where you feel more
yourself.
And again this is people say,well, I'm relaxed by sitting in
front of TV or watching ourscreens.
(27:38):
And we simply forgotten whatactually being at ease and
relaxed is.
So I would suggest to startthere.
Because when our body and mindare in the state of ease and
relaxation, our thinking takesvery different course.
(28:04):
And we think very differently.
It is a scientific fact thatwhen you stressed, your access
to your brain, to yourcognition.
It's much more limited.
It's millions of years ofevolution took us there and
realize that when you're indanger, thinking is not what's
(28:30):
going to take you out of there.
It's going to be either to fightor to fly, or to freeze.
And we have that pre programmedin our body.
So from that point of view,cognition and thinking and high
emotions is not something thatyour body will allow you to
(28:50):
focus.
So the moment you move from thestress into ease, into
relaxation, that's where thejourney begins.
That, that's where you can havegreater ability to know thyself
coming back to the initialhealth tip, right?
It's very difficult to reallyconsider even any form of
(29:13):
practice when you in distress.
So that's, that's a long answerto a very simple question.
Ivelisse Page (29:22):
Excellent.
Well, Tomek, we're going to putyour Insight Timer app in our
links so that individuals can goto your website or download your
app and to get benefits from themany different modalities that
you have there for individualsto use.
Before we close the podcast, isthere anything that you would
(29:42):
like to share that I didn't geta chance to ask you that you
feel would be important for ouraudience?
Tomek Wyczesany (29:48):
Well, a small correction.
I wish that InsightTimer was myapp.
It is not my app.
It's an app with around 20, 000teachers, other teachers that
are also there.
So, you can, as much as I wouldlike to promote myself.
There are many other wonderfulteachers and musicians that can
help you with that very processof relaxation.
(30:10):
Or if you decide to listen to mymeditations, you may find that
there are a lot of them help youwith the process of relaxation,
but I think there is moreemphasis on the contemplation
and definitely transformation.
And to answer your question.
And the last thing I want to sayto everybody who's on the cancer
(30:34):
journey and all the listeners isto bring power that is so very
often perceived as external backto yourself.
And I'm not even saying thatthis is through mindfulness and
meditation.
This is simply throughconsidering yourself and who you
(30:57):
are right now in this verymoment, regardless of your
circumstances, regardless of thestate of your health.
And the fact, if you listeningto this, it means that there's
so much beauty in you and beginby realizing this very beauty
(31:17):
that is already in you.
Ivelisse Page (31:19):
Wonderful.
Thank you so much Tomek forgetting up extra early this
morning to join us all the wayfrom Australia.
It's such a blessing to have youand thank you for all the
wonderful insight that youshared with us today on the
podcast.
Tomek Wyczesany (31:34):
It is my pleasure and thank you so much
for all your questions and forhaving me here.
Ivelisse Page (31:47):
If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to
help support our podcast, pleasesubscribe and share it with
others.
Be sure to visit believebig.orgto access the show notes and
discover our bonus content.
Thanks again and keep BelievingBig!
Hi, I'm Ivelisse Page, and thanks for listening
to the Believe Big podcast, theshow where we take a deep dive
into your healing with healthexperts, integrative
practitioners, biblical faithleaders, and cancer thrivers
from around the globe.
(00:34):
Welcome to today's episode onthe Believe Big podcast.
My name is Ivelisse Page, andit's always a pleasure to be
with you here.
I am very excited about today'spodcast guest.
Our friend Tomek Wyczesany is amental health and well-being
expert with a doctorate from theUniversity of Sydney.
(00:55):
With a unique approach rooted inneuroscience, cognitive science,
and mindfulness, he incorporatesvarious wisdom traditions to
offer a holistic perspective onwell being.
Tomek's expertise spans over 20years of meditation practice,
during which he has helpedthousands of individuals
(01:16):
transform their lives.
His meditations, available onInsight Timer, have gathered
over 4 million plays, testifyingto their profound impact.
Tomek specializes in usingmindfulness modalities to expand
the consciousness of hisclients, guiding them towards
managing stress, improving sleepand enhancing their everyday
(01:41):
well-being.
Through individualized coaching,Tomek empowers his clients to
achieve meaningfultransformation, leveraging his
extensive knowledge andexperience to facilitate
personal growth and well-being.
He is currently based in thebeautiful sunshine coast of
Australia.
Welcome to the show Tomek.
Tomek Wyczesany (02:03):
Thank you so much for having me.
It's a pleasure to be here.
Ivelisse Page (02:07):
Well, we always like to know what our guest's
favorite health tip is, and I'msure you have many, but can you
share one with us?
Tomek Wyczesany (02:14):
Thank you.
It's a tough question.
And when I thought about it theone tip that, is most important
to me is actually two and a halfthousand years old, and it's
inscribed on the temple ofApollo in Delphi, ancient Greece
or Greece, but it started twoand a half thousand years ago.
(02:37):
And that tip is simply to knowthyself.
And perhaps this might soundvague because when we hear about
health tips, we rely on someexternal sources, maybe I don't
know, doing something or eatingsomething, but for me, and I
(03:01):
hope you get to know me a bitbetter through this podcast.
The most important thing is toget to know yourself on all the
levels, the physical level, themental level, psychological
level, and even spiritual level.
And they all combine into onewhole.
(03:22):
And I think it's not only ahealth tip, but a life's mission
of everyone to know themselvesbetter and better.
And through that, we can bettermanage our health, not only
physical health, but mentalhealth and simply live more
(03:44):
happy, more fulfilled life.
And I can imagine this issomething that is of importance
to the listeners, to everyone,but also for people who are
dealing with a cancer diagnosis.
And it might be difficult forthem to hear something.
What do you mean?
Know that, know myself, why thisis important.
(04:06):
But I think before taking anytreatments and it's important to
recognize what is happeningwithin your body and mind.
And maybe that's that's to startoff with.
Ivelisse Page (04:18):
Yeah.
I love that you shared thatbecause I think many times I
call in our world today, we arein a hurry sickness running from
one thing to the next, and we'renot really taking time to look
within ourselves to say, what doI need to let go of?
You know, what do I need to addmore of in my life?
What are some things, boundariesthat I may need to place to
(04:40):
really help myself move forwardin the next months or, you know,
as I begin this cancer journey?
And it's an area that manypeople do not focus on.
And so that's why I'm so gladthat you're with us here today
to really shed light on this sovery, very important aspect of
our health.
And so let's begin.
(05:01):
I would really I would love foryou to explain, because some
listeners are new to mindfulnessand meditation, and they might
not even know what thedifference is between them.
Can you share what thedifference is between
mindfulness and meditation?
Tomek Wyczesany (05:17):
Yeah, thank you for this question.
Well, mindfulness is beingpresent to whatever there is
with the not judgmentalattitude.
And meditation the way Iunderstand it.
And again everybody is entitledto their own opinions through
(05:39):
their own direct experience is astate where we contemplate and
explore certain aspects of theself through awareness.
A lot of times people whenhearing mindfulness, meditation
(06:02):
they look at it in the same way.
But I think it's important torecognize that we can be mindful
at any given moment of the day.
Being, either being, simplybeing, or performing any task.
And usually meditation is moresuitable for internal
(06:25):
exploration where we mostlyfocus on the internalized
landscape, and we might, itmight be helpful to close your
eyes and do it this way.
However, in both cases.
The emphasis is the way Iunderstand it and the way I
teach and practice it myself ison the internal exploration of
(06:48):
our inner landscape thatconsists of so many different
things and allows us, as youbeautifully pointed out, to slow
down the one quote unquote sensethat is so dominant in our lives
these days is thinking.
So, we live in times where weare completely dominated, and
(07:15):
identified with our thinkingprocess.
And I can speak from my ownexperience because I am a
scientist and spent I don'tknow, almost 20 years in
academia exploring differentexperiments and exploring
scientific methods.
So certainly I use my mind, butI also know that this very mind
can get in a way of the processof slowing down and knowing
(07:40):
yourself.
'cause knowing yourself from theperspective of the mind, as it
turns out, is only one anglethat we can take.
And that there's so much more.
And both meditation as a way ofexploration and mindfulness as a
way of interacting with yourconsciousness and awareness
(08:03):
being in the present moment in anon judgmental way.
They both are very helpful toolson that path.
Ivelisse Page (08:11):
Yes, I completely agree.
For people who like analogies,I, I figure mindfulness is more
when I go for a walk without myphone and I notice the birds
chirping, I notice the treeschanging colors.
You taste that delicious darkchocolate and you are really in
that moment enjoying.
(08:32):
And so it's really being in thatmoment like you shared versus
meditation for me as aChristian, I meditate on
scripture.
I visualize prayers and thingslike that, that can really help
me to be more at peace and bemore focused in my prayer life.
So, So I love how you explainthat.
What drew you to mindfulnesspractices and how have you
(08:56):
shaped your personal, how hasthat shaped your personal and
professional life?
Tomek Wyczesany (09:02):
I think I'm not very original here, but my path
with looking into myself throughthe lens of mindfulness and
meditation started with my ownpersonal struggle.
So, as the listeners may hear,English is not my first
language.
(09:22):
I moved from my from Poland, mycountry of origin around 2005 to
learn English and I went toLondon where I started working
and learning English, uh, atthat time, which was very, very,
very poor, but there wasopportunity arose where I could
(09:46):
take a scholarship at UniversityQueen Mary University of London
and start PhD there.
And that was absolutelyfascinating and interesting part
of my life.
But the time I I finished myPhD, I moved to Australia to
finish my PhD.
(10:07):
And by the time I startedfinishing it, I've realized I'm
completely unprepared for thestruggles of the academic life
and writing my thesis.
And my mental healthdeteriorated tremendously.
I was lucky to connect with thecounseling services at the
University of Sydney and, andfind Maria who helped me to
(10:28):
recognize some of the thingsthat are happening and that are
absolutely normal.
But the truth is when thesession finished, I was still
left with one person that I haveto deal with every day of my
life, which is myself.
My next step was, well, maybe Ishould start taking myself more
(10:50):
seriously and look inside whatis happening there.
Because as much as I appreciatehelp of others, again, that
aspect of knowing thyself isultimately the way that to, to
deal with your problems.
And that's where I started.
We had a very small group, whichmight be interested to the
(11:12):
listeners of this podcast.
It started, I was, I was raisedCatholic and for many, many
years the church structure wassupporting my process.
And it was only natural for meto start something which is
derived from Christiantradition, which is the practice
of Centering Prayer.
(11:32):
You are familiar with thescripture in Lectio Divina and
this is part of the, theCentering Prayer, which is
essentially a Christiancontemplative, meditative method
to look inside.
And that's where we started as asmall group.
And out of this group, I thinkwas only three people that
(11:56):
remained and we practiced forabout two years.
But then that struggle withwriting up my thesis and my
mental health and how toapproach life and how to deal
with stress led me much furtherinto, years later, because it
took years before I evenadmitted to anyone that I
(12:17):
practice meditation, but it ledme to expand so much more and to
know myself and to know who I ambetter and consider my vocation,
not necessarily as a scientist.
But someone who supports ascientific method, and this is
(12:38):
very, I want to make adistinction here, science very
often can be used in the sameranks as the religion versus
scientific method is asystematic exploration of, of
anything can be an object, butalso can be yourself.
So, basically, I took myself onthe canvas and started exploring
and out of this, what, what cameout was the fact that I want to
(13:02):
make an impact on people'slives.
And that was not possible inacademia, the way I worked.
And I found that actuallysharing the knowledge that I,
that I shed light through mypersonal practice was the best
way of doing it.
So, so long story short, and toshort answer to your question,
(13:23):
my journey with meditation andmindfulness started with my
personal struggle.
Right there.
Ivelisse Page (13:30):
It's amazing.
Well, first of all, your Englishis excellent, so I really wanted
to mention that.
And also you mentioned LectioDivina, and for those who are
listening who may be unfamiliarwith what Lectio Divina is, it's
a method of scripturemeditation.
It was developed by Benedict inthe 6th century, and what I do,
(13:51):
at least for the Lectio Divina,is I read the Bible passage
three times.
And each time I'm guided by aquestion and it allows me to
enter the passageexperientially, feeling my
emotion, my needs, listening tothe Holy Spirit to speak into my
daily life.
And, those questions are like,what is one word or phrase that
(14:11):
the Holy Spirit impresses uponyour heart?
What do you feel the second timeI read it?
What specific situation in mylife does this relate to?
And the third time I read it, Iasked the question, What's God's
invitation to me from what Ijust read?
And for those of you who wouldlike to know more about it, we
(14:32):
have a Nourishing the SoulHealing Journal at Believe Big,
and we can put a link to it thatcan help you walk through that
process if anyone is interestedin investigating that a little
further.
But thank you so much forsharing your personal story and
I would love to hear from you ifyou could share some key
mindfulness techniques ormodalities that you use in your
(14:55):
practice and how do you decidewhat to use in which situation?
Tomek Wyczesany (15:00):
That's an excellent excellent question.
Back to Lectio Divina and yourway of exploring the words it's
an exploration.
It is an investigation and mostimportantly, it's an inquiry.
And that's how I use varioustechniques and modalities or I
(15:21):
used over the years to approachthe reality of myself, external
reality through differentlenses.
However, as my practice andunderstanding myself evolved, I
started recognizing that it isimportant to look beyond the
(15:42):
technique, and to recognize thattechniques are simply a tools to
put us on the right path.
But once we on this very path,we are our own guide, and that's
very important because thatgives us the right perspective
(16:04):
that empowers us to see that weare, I always, my, something
words I use to describe it, weare the active ingredient.
The one most important,important person in your life
is, is that you love very muchis you, and I think it's very
important to recognize it.
It's not an external factor,it's you.
(16:27):
So, I think humorous way ofexpressing that is be yourself,
because everybody else isalready taken.
And as humorous as it sounds,this is something that, we don't
very frequently do.
We actually look up to othersand we want to be as others.
So in terms of the techniquesand modalities I use, let me
(16:51):
just share one with you thatmaybe is aligned with something
that I started off with and verymuch is aligned with the tone
of, of this podcast and, it is amethod of centering prayer,
which was introduced by FatherThomas Keating and explored and
(17:12):
expanded by Cynthia Bourgeaud,people that I consider mystics
of of the Catholicism.
And they can be traced, thepractice of centering prayer can
be traced all the way to St.
John of the Cross and Teresa ofAvila.
So there's a huge heritage thereto explore.
But I think it was Father ThomasKeating who summarized it in
(17:35):
four R's that I personally usestill in my practice when I find
myself off the rail, so tospeak.
And the four R's of the practiceare very simple, but not easy,
is to resist no thought, reactto no thought, retain no
(18:00):
thought, and return toawareness.
Return to the awareness that youare.
And these words, for years andyears, I simply followed the
instruction.
This is, this was my primarypractice.
(18:22):
And only recently, I recognizewhat those words mean.
Those instructions finally tooka root after all these years.
And I recognize that the mostimportant thing that one can do
in practice is recognize who weare, not on the level of the
(18:46):
thoughts, but on the level ofawareness.
And this is something that isvery easy to miss.
Even though I can guide usthrough awareness practice and
everybody most likely will beable to connect with themselves
of the level of awareness.
The one modality that we trainthe most throughout our lives.
(19:10):
is our thinking and thetransition between being
present, and as you said, goingon a nature walk, tasting a
chocolate, experiencing allthose wonderful things that the
life has to offer.
The transition between beingawareness that tastes and
(19:32):
experiences life to thinkingabout the experience is so
fluid.
It's so flawless that westruggle to catch ourselves when
that happens, simply because wetrain ourselves over the period
of the entire life to do justthat.
So when you again, whether it'spractice of centering prayer or
(19:57):
mantra meditation or focusing onthe breath, this is just the
beginning of the road.
This is the gateway thatultimately leads us to
experience yourself from adifferent point of view.
And I think something that isimportant to me and perhaps
could be of value to thelisteners and and everyone who
(20:20):
goes through their cancerjourney is the transformation
that happens as we continue onthis path.
This is one, from my perspectiveat least, and and I want to
share that.
The one most important thing onthis path is the transformation
(20:43):
that happens as we, usingmindfulness, pay attention to
what is happening within us,within our mind, body, with our
psyche along the way.
So I'm not even even sure wherewe started this.
What was the question?
(21:04):
Clearly you see I'm lost in myown thinking, so maybe I should
listen to myself from time totime and look in the mirror,
like Michael Jackson.
Start with the guy in themirror.
Ivelisse Page (21:14):
I love it.
No, I think it leads into thequestion that I wanted to ask
you because, and you'reabsolutely right.
I believe we are, again, just sobusy in this world.
And even as myself as aChristian for all these years,
I've always had certainpractices that I would do every
morning.
And when I had my last cancerdiagnosis my spiritual director
(21:36):
was saying, you know, I reallywant you to experience your
faith in a different aspect.
I want you to experience prayerin a different way and
experience the Lord in adifferent way.
And it was beautiful because Iwas able to go on those walks
and I was looking for ways tosee God, like you were saying,
what am I smelling?
What am I seeing?
What am I feeling in theflowers?
(21:57):
And, and really seeing creationas such a gift and a miracle.
And then coming back and, andinstead of saying prayers where
I always, I'm always gratefulor, or lifting up requests
right, for healing or whateverit may be.
She encouraged me to be quiet,to not even say a word kind of
like you were saying.
(22:18):
Instead of asking or beingthankful and all these things
which are good practices rightshe goes practice on trying to
be quiet and see if you listento his still small voice
speaking to you and sometimes wemiss it because we're either so
busy or on our own agenda orasking or thanking so that was
(22:38):
just such a beautiful thing andthat reminded me when you were
saying about really lookingwithin ourselves and especially
for cancer patients.
And when you're talking aboutvisualization, that's one of the
key things that I did when I wassick.
You know, you're saying whatyou're experiencing also, it
ties into what your thoughtsare, right?
(22:59):
So, I was injecting thatmistletoe into my abdomen and,
and I actually in my mind, Ipictured the cancer cells being
destroyed by it.
I pictured healthy cells withinmy body growing and energy and
strength and all those thingsare powerful ways that we can
(23:19):
use our minds and our bodiesthat were created to heal in
order to move in that direction.
And so what advice would yougive to someone who's just
beginning this mindfulnessjourney?
They're hearing this today, andit may be for the first time,
and especially someone dealingwith a major illness like
(23:40):
cancer.
Tomek Wyczesany (23:41):
Yeah, that's a, that's a very good question.
Thank you.
Before we jump into meditationand before we start getting the
benefits that everybody ravesabout, my one suggestion, not
necessarily advice, is to learnto relax.
(24:07):
Do not worry about meditation.
Do not worry about mindfulness.
Learn to relax.
The transformation that happensduring the relaxation process,
and you can use breathingmethods, you can do, you can use
any technique, you can do naturework, you can do any way you
like, learn to relax, to giveyour body the chance to come
(24:33):
back to the state of harmony.
Even when I thought about it,even for people with cancer
right now, as we speak, canceris a very small part of the
body.
The vast majority of organsfunction beautifully,
(24:56):
wonderfully.
I, I taught biochemistry andstudied chemistry throughout my
life.
And one of the wonders of what'shappening in your body is the
tapestry of myriads of processesthat are mind blowing, that are
happening right now within you.
(25:18):
They just, they're verydifficult to comprehend.
And even for me, with myexperience, when I look at it,
it's absolutely mind boggling.
And all these processes and moreare happening within your body
as we speak, even if you have acancer diagnosis.
So my question is, what, how canI support my body, internally,
(25:47):
in the process of restoring theinitial balance prior to the
cancer diagnosis?
What happened there and what haschanged?
And the process of knowingthyself includes those factors
of recognizing what has changedin my physical health, mental
(26:09):
health, spiritual health, beforeand now.
And that's where mindfulness canbe helpful.
Sorry, what was your questionagain?
Because I'm, I'm going off therails once again.
Ivelisse Page (26:24):
No, that was excellent.
I just said someone who'sbeginning their mindfulness
journey, you know, especiallydealing with something like
cancer, what advice would yougive them?
Tomek Wyczesany (26:33):
Yeah.
So yeah, that's right.
So back on track.
So relaxation most of the peoplewho listen to my recordings, to
my meditations, they do not comethere to necessarily explore
themselves.
They look for relief and this isadvice that your body give you.
That is very important.
Come and experience relief.
(26:53):
That is moving from dis easeinto ease, from situation that
is stressful, that we know Icould describe here the, you
know, hormonal regulation andyour nervous system regulation
that on the physiological levelis described as stress.
Moving you from that, that youcan feel as a tension in your
(27:17):
body, as a discomfort into astate where you feel more
yourself.
And again this is people say,well, I'm relaxed by sitting in
front of TV or watching ourscreens.
(27:38):
And we simply forgotten whatactually being at ease and
relaxed is.
So I would suggest to startthere.
Because when our body and mindare in the state of ease and
relaxation, our thinking takesvery different course.
(28:04):
And we think very differently.
It is a scientific fact thatwhen you stressed, your access
to your brain, to yourcognition.
It's much more limited.
It's millions of years ofevolution took us there and
realize that when you're indanger, thinking is not what's
(28:30):
going to take you out of there.
It's going to be either to fightor to fly, or to freeze.
And we have that pre programmedin our body.
So from that point of view,cognition and thinking and high
emotions is not something thatyour body will allow you to
(28:50):
focus.
So the moment you move from thestress into ease, into
relaxation, that's where thejourney begins.
That, that's where you can havegreater ability to know thyself
coming back to the initialhealth tip, right?
It's very difficult to reallyconsider even any form of
(29:13):
practice when you in distress.
So that's, that's a long answerto a very simple question.
Ivelisse Page (29:22):
Excellent.
Well, Tomek, we're going to putyour Insight Timer app in our
links so that individuals can goto your website or download your
app and to get benefits from themany different modalities that
you have there for individualsto use.
Before we close the podcast, isthere anything that you would
(29:42):
like to share that I didn't geta chance to ask you that you
feel would be important for ouraudience?
Tomek Wyczesany (29:48):
Well, a small correction.
I wish that InsightTimer was myapp.
It is not my app.
It's an app with around 20, 000teachers, other teachers that
are also there.
So, you can, as much as I wouldlike to promote myself.
There are many other wonderfulteachers and musicians that can
help you with that very processof relaxation.
(30:10):
Or if you decide to listen to mymeditations, you may find that
there are a lot of them help youwith the process of relaxation,
but I think there is moreemphasis on the contemplation
and definitely transformation.
And to answer your question.
And the last thing I want to sayto everybody who's on the cancer
(30:34):
journey and all the listeners isto bring power that is so very
often perceived as external backto yourself.
And I'm not even saying thatthis is through mindfulness and
meditation.
This is simply throughconsidering yourself and who you
(30:57):
are right now in this verymoment, regardless of your
circumstances, regardless of thestate of your health.
And the fact, if you listeningto this, it means that there's
so much beauty in you and beginby realizing this very beauty
(31:17):
that is already in you.
Ivelisse Page (31:19):
Wonderful.
Thank you so much Tomek forgetting up extra early this
morning to join us all the wayfrom Australia.
It's such a blessing to have youand thank you for all the
wonderful insight that youshared with us today on the
podcast.
Tomek Wyczesany (31:34):
It is my pleasure and thank you so much
for all your questions and forhaving me here.
Ivelisse Page (31:47):
If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to
help support our podcast, pleasesubscribe and share it with
others.
Be sure to visit believebig.orgto access the show notes and
discover our bonus content.
Thanks again and keep BelievingBig!
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