January 28, 2025 • 33 mins
Today on the Believe Big podcast, Dr. Rob Reimer returns to talk about his new book, Authentic, which explores the connection between addressing our soul's issues and deepening our intimacy with God.
Rob shares how unresolved wounds, bitterness, and spiritual barriers can block the flow of the Holy Spirit, and encourages us to seek healing for a fuller relationship with God.
He also challenges the knowledge-driven approach of Western Christianity, urging us to focus on meaningful spiritual practices that actually transform our lives rather than mere rituals or habits. With thought-provoking insights, he emphasizes asking better questions, like whether our faith practices are genuinely working, rather than simply whether we’re checking them off of our daily to-do list.
Today's conversation offers a fresh perspective on discipleship, and encourages you to pursue authenticity and freedom in your spiritual journey. Join us for an empowering discussion that will help you strengthen your connection with God.
Learn more about Dr. Rob Reimer:
https://renewalinternational.org/rob-reimer
Suggested Resources:
- BOOK: Authentic: Cultivating Authentic Relationship with God – Dr. Rob Reimer
- BOOK: Soul Care, by Dr. Rob Reimer
- Renewal International (home page)
- Dr. Reimer's recorded sermons
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ivelisse Page (00:06):
Hi, I'm Ivelisse Page, and thanks for listening
to the Believe Big podcast, theshow where we take a deep dive
into your healing with healthexperts, integrative
practitioners, biblical faithleaders, and cancer thrivers
from around the globe.
(00:34):
Welcome to today's episode onthe Believe Big podcast.
My name is Ivelisse Page, andit's an honor to be with you
today.
Today, we get to welcome back aspecial guest whose passion for
God's kingdom has led him tohelp others through spiritual
renewal.
Rob joined us in season two ofthe Believe Big podcast to talk
about Soul Care.
(00:56):
Today, he returns to share abouthis new book, Authentic.
Dr.
Reimer is the founder of RenewalInternational and he assists
pastors, leaders, and churchesglobally by equipping people to
live in freedom in Christ and towalk in the fullness and power
of the Holy Spirit.
He has served as the professorof pastoral theology at Alliance
(01:17):
University in New York and wasthe founding and lead pastor of
a church in New England.
Dr.
Reimer is an author of eightbooks and he also teaches and
leads conferences all over theworld.
Welcome back to the show, Dr.
Reimer.
Dr. Rob Reimer (01:33):
Good to be with you, Ivelisse.
Ivelisse Page (01:35):
So you were actually with us two seasons
ago.
And in that season, you sharedyour favorite health tip, which
is a life balanced physically,spiritually, and emotionally.
And in the second episode, youshared that it takes two healthy
people to have a healthyrelationship.
Now we're going to reallychallenge you and ask if you
have a third favorite health tipfor our listeners today.
Dr. Rob Reimer (01:58):
All right, so let's talk about Sabbath for a
second.
Um, so one of the principlesthat I try to follow in my life
is Sabbath.
I will say that I don't alwaysfollow it the way most people
follow it.
So the way most people follow itis they take a day off per week
and it's usually Sunday or somepeople maybe are like in my
(02:19):
profession as they're preachingon Sundays so they take
Saturday.
But what I have done is I'velooked at Sabbath over the
course of a year.
And the reality is we have tohave enough rest and enough, you
know, balanced space ofrestoration and recreation and
(02:41):
re-creation space to be able tocarry us through seasons of
busyness and pain and heartacheand stress.
So, for me, I always look at itover the whole year.
So, for example, this year, Ilost my very best friend at the
beginning of the year.
And, he died suddenly,unexpectedly, in January,
(03:02):
January 8th.
And so, I knew right away, thisyear, coming into this year, was
going to be a year that wassuper hard for me emotionally.
It was going to be way moredraining than most years in my
life.
I just said to my wife when myfriend died, I mean, he lived
three miles from me.
I spent regular time with himalmost, you know, four or five
times a week.
I said to Jen, when he died, itwas like losing my second wife.
(03:24):
You know, I mean, it was just,uh, you know, that close.
Anyhow with that I realizedcoming in this year, I just said
to the Lord, this is going to bea huge sort of drain on my soul.
So what do I need to do?
And the first thing I heard fromthe spirit of God was I was
always taking one retreat dayevery month.
And I heard him say, go to tworetreat days every month.
(03:47):
And so every month this year,I've taken two retreat days.
And as a result, while there'ssadness, there's always sadness
and grief you carry in this lifewith loss.
There's also been joy and peace,and love.
All year long, it's enabled meto stay reasonably healthy,
especially emotionally andspiritually, in the midst of
(04:10):
extreme loss.
We went on to lose, uh, sixother people that we deeply
loved this year.
It's just been a brutal year forloss.
Most loss I've ever experiencedin my life.
And yet, that extra retreat day,the power of Sabbath over the
long haul.
Not just the weekly, but thatyearly Sabbath concept really
(04:34):
saved me this year in the midstof tremendous loss.
Ivelisse Page (04:38):
I'm so sorry to hear about all that loss, and,
you know, real quick, what doesthat retreat day look like?
If you're taking Sunday to justenjoy it and to live, like, what
does that retreat dayadditionally from Sabbath look
like?
Dr. Rob Reimer (04:52):
Yeah, so, for me personally, when I go to spend a
day alone with the Lord, this iswhat it looks like.
I will usually during that day,I'll fast most of the times.
So I just fast breakfast, lunch,I'll eat dinner with the family.
Then I also ride my bike,usually in the morning at some
point, I'll take a 15 mile bikeride or something.
(05:12):
And then I'll spend the entireday alone with the Lord.
Usually I take the bike ride inthe middle, especially if it's a
little chillier, you know, Ilike it to, I like to ride when
it's a little warmer.
So I'll start with a couplehours alone with God.
Then I'll go on a bike ride,come back and spend 3 or 4 more
hours alone with the Lord.
Um, so there's scripture intake.
(05:34):
I'm meditating on scripture.
There's a intercession going onthere for sure.
A lot of worship.
And most of the times I don'teven sing.
I just sit and soak in hispresence, and then I'll spend at
least an hour, maybe two, insilence, just sitting before the
Lord, quiet, just fixing mytotal attention and affection on
(05:59):
Jesus and just letting him saywhat he wants or just kind of
abiding and lingering in hispresence for an entire day.
Ivelisse Page (06:09):
I love that.
I, I, I need to incorporate thatmore as well.
I, I feel like so many times andespecially in our busy seasons
that we keep pushing and youknow, to have that time to just
rest, to stay away fromtechnology and to just listen,
um, you know, says a lot for oursouls.
So I, I really love that youshared that tip today.
(06:32):
You know, you, you have your newbook, Authentic, and I'm almost
finished with it.
It is fantastic.
Oh, thanks.
Yeah, it is really a great book,and, um, it discusses, you know,
finding true intimacy with God,similar to what you were sharing
about these retreat days.
How would you say the healingjourney in Soul Care complements
(06:52):
or differs from the journeytowards a true personal
relationship with God that youdescribe in this book.
Dr. Rob Reimer (06:58):
Yeah, so I think it's super hard to draw near to
God if you have a lot ofunprocessed soul issues.
So one of the things that Ibelieve is that it is often our
unaddressed soul issues thatkeeps us from our next level of
intimacy with God.
They become these barriers toour life.
(07:20):
Whether it is unaddressed sin,or it is unaddressed hurt, and
we've carried around somebitterness, even, or anger,
resentment, grudge holdingstuff, or it's unaddressed
wounds.
When we have this stuff in oursoul, it blocks the flow of the
Holy Spirit in our lives.
(07:40):
And so, if you want to draw nearto God, and you want to
experience more of his freedomand fullness, and you want to
experience more closeness toHim, these things have to be
addressed.
And so I think it's a directconnection between our soul
issues and our intimacy.
Ivelisse Page (08:00):
I agree.
You know, often in religion, weget comfortable with things like
rituals and habits.
In Authentic, you discuss therisk of substituting real
encounters with God forreligious habits or rituals.
Does Authentic address thosebreaking patterns in our faith
life, perhaps in the form ofreligious habits that prevent
(08:21):
genuine encounters with God,and, and how can believers
become aware of when this ishappening and what can they do
to redirect their spiritualfocus?
Dr. Rob Reimer (08:30):
So one of the great problems we have, and this
particularly true of WesternChristianity, right?
So it's a very knowledge basedconcept in our Western
educational systems, right?
So it's, you know, you go toschool, you master the knowledge
of a subject.
You write down the rightanswers, and now you get an A,
(08:51):
and you get a degree.
And so it's all about themastery of knowledge.
That's really what our educationis about.
But that's not what discipleshipis about.
It's never about that.
And so we can trick ourselvesinto believing because I know
all these right answers and Iknow all this right theology and
I've read my Bible and I'veprayed and I've done all these
(09:13):
right things.
Now I'm rightly connected toGod.
But, you know, Jesus looks atthe Pharisees, and they're
reading their Bible, they'repraying, they're fasting,
they're tithing down to theherbs in their garden, and he
looks at them and says, Are younot in error, at one point,
because you know not theScriptures.
They had memorized the entireOld Testament Pentateuch, right?
(09:36):
The first five books, and theyknew their Bibles, but they
weren't living it.
So they did all these rightdisciplines, and they killed
Jesus.
At the end of the day, you'vegot to be able to look at this
stuff and go, is all this rightbehavior leading to right
relationship?
So you got to start evaluatingthings a little bit different,
right?
So one of the things I talkabout in Authentic is you have
(09:57):
to ask the right questions.
Too often we're asking the wrongquestion.
So we're asking questions like,are you spending time with God?
And I would argue, well yeah,but even the Pharisees spent
time with God, and they killedJesus, so that's the wrong
question.
Can we ask better questions?
So one of the questions, forexample, about your spiritual
practices is not, are you doingthose things, but, is it
(10:22):
working?
That's a far better question toask yourself.
So yeah, do I want you to spendtime Bible reading, prayer,
worship, etc.
Of course, but we just talkedabout it at the beginning.
It was one of my health tips.
I want to spend time in Sabbath.
I want to spend block timesalone with God, but is it
working?
(10:44):
That's the key question.
So how do you know if it'sworking?
That is something I think weneed to evaluate.
And you know, that's a bigimportant question that you have
to ask.
Ivelisse Page (10:55):
Yeah.
And I feel that, you know, manytimes we feel better, right if
we're checking off those boxes,like I read my Bible, I spent
time in worship.
And, one of the things that Ilearned during my sabbatical was
to do life differently, not onlyin finding joy in the simple
things in life, but even in myspiritual practices So, my
(11:17):
spiritual director asked me,what have you been doing?
And what do you normally do?
So I shared and she's like Iwant you to put that all to the
side and I want you to do newthings I want you to draw what
Jesus shows you throughout theday instead of journaling, if
that's something you're alwaysdoing.
I want you to go for prayerwalks.
When you're talking aboutforgiveness, pick up a stone
(11:37):
along your walk and hold it as arepresentation of the things
that you may be holding that youmay not know.
And at the end of the walk,throw it and release it to God.
And so simple things like thatthat really opened my soul to
something new and to experienceGod in a different way And I
love that question is how do youknow if it's working and I feel
(11:57):
personally for me I know thatwhen I'm experiencing the fruits
of the Spirit then I amexperiencing God in the way I
feel I should I have more peace.
I have more joy I have more loveand patience and kindness and
goodness faithfulness all ofthose wonderful gifts that he's
given us is a reflection of howwe feel when we're doing life
(12:19):
right with him.
Dr. Rob Reimer (12:20):
Yeah, so when I'm rightly aligned with Jesus,
then the emotion of Jesus beginsto emerge for me.
So think about it, right?
The first three in that fruit ofthe spirit you just listed are
love, joy, and peace.
So when I am correctly alignedto Jesus, what should be
(12:42):
bubbling up from deep wellswithin me are love, joy, and
peace..
And they're not circumstantial.
Think with me about Paul, right?
He's in prison.
He's getting the snot kicked outof him and he's worshiping and
he's writing a letter to thechurch at Philippi talking about
(13:05):
joy that's bursting in his soul.
Like that ain't normal.
But that's normal when you'reabiding in Jesus.
Why?
Because He has complete joy.
He is the Prince of Peace.
He is love.
So when I'm connected to the onewho is complete in joy, the
(13:28):
prince of peace, and themanifestation of love, guess
what happens?
Love, joy, and peace bubble upin my soul.
So for me, one of the keys thatI have to evaluate is, do I
experience love, joy, and peacemanifesting regularly and
consistently in my life?
Or am I experiencing irritation,aggravation, annoyance, and so
(13:52):
on and so forth?
Because that's not the fruit ofJesus.
But I have had times in my lifewhere I've been doing all the
right things and not manifestinglove, joy, and peace.
Ivelisse Page (14:04):
Yes.
And you also talk about in thebook about sustaining a deep
connection with God over alifetime, right?
And this is hard for a lot ofpeople to do, especially when
they're finding themselvesstraying over time due to those
challenges and circumstancesthat you talk about.
What are some practices or dailyhabits that help nurture and
maintain that depth in, in, inour lifetime walk with Jesus?
Dr. Rob Reimer (14:28):
So, one of the key things for me all the time
is like, I have to constantlysink my roots into my eternal
citizenship.
As you and I are recording this,right, we just had an election.
So let's be honest.
I have friends on both sides ofthe political spectrum, okay?
I have a ton of friends that,for them, they're looking at
(14:50):
this thing and going, oh no, ifso and so wins.
Oh, the world is falling apart.
And then I got a ton of otherfriends on the other side of the
spectrum that if so and so theother party wins, oh, the world
is falling apart.
Let me say, no matter who won,and we know now that Trump has
won, as you know, the next dayhere.
(15:12):
Jesus is still on his throne,and he's not nervous.
But can I tell you, Jesus wasn'tnervous in World War II when
Hitler was in charge.
And Jesus isn't gonna benervous, no matter what idiot
stands on the throne, and nomatter what horrible decisions
they make.
Jesus is the Prince of Peace.
(15:34):
And my true citizenship is notin this world.
I'm just passing throughaccording to my Bible.
I'm living for another kingdom.
I live for that king of thatkingdom that's eternal.
And when I get that right, thedisappointments of this life
(15:56):
cause me to grieve the lossesthat should have not happened or
the things that shouldn't haveturned out the way they turned
out.
But at the end of the day, allthe disappointment and grief of
this world reminds me that I'mnot really living for this
world, that this world can neverreally satisfy, that it is the
next world that I'm actuallyliving for.
(16:18):
And that causes me to sink deeproots in my eternal citizenship.
When I do that, love, joy, andpeace are an abundant fruit
flowing in my soul.
Ivelisse Page (16:32):
Yes.
But don't you also agree that asbelievers, that we are his hands
and feet here and that biblicalvalues need to be upheld and,
you know, when, when things aregoing amok in our world, that
we, we have the power, you know,to make sure that the leaders
are following these biblicalvalues and protecting life and,
(16:54):
you know, all the issues oftoday.
And so, yes, I, I 100 percentagree that our citizenship is in
Jesus and either way, He isstill on the throne.
Absolutely.
But I also feel like what is ourrole as citizens here on earth
to make sure that we are sharingHis life and being light in that
(17:14):
darkness.
Dr. Rob Reimer (17:15):
Yeah, we have to be a light in the darkness, but
let's be honest, there's alwaysdarkness.
And it's not just in, you know,whatever political leader I
have, because they all havedarkness in them, and they're
all very egotistical, for themost part, self centered people
who, um, don't always make moralchoices.
And the reality is that darknessis in me, too, and in you.
(17:39):
This is what it means to be asinner.
So, for me, a huge part of thisthing is just recognizing if I'm
gonna lose my peace over who'sgotten elected, or over what
decision some political leaderis making, then I gotta tell
you, I have more Americancitizenship than I do Kingdom
citizenship.
(18:00):
And that's not Paul at all.
That's not Jesus at all.
No matter what political leaderswere involved in whatever they
were doing, and again, Paul'sgetting thrown in prison and
being threatened with death, andeventually killed, and yet it
was never going to rob him ofhis peace, because he had deep,
eternal citizen roots.
(18:22):
That's a big deal.
So, I think part of this ishaving these kinds of eternal
perspectives.
If you want to live a healthylife on Earth where you're
undisrupted, by earthcircumstances, you've got to
have deeper, you know, sort ofroots in your eternal
citizenship.
It's a big deal.
Ivelisse Page (18:41):
Yeah.
And similar to those who arelistening on this podcast from
our community in the cancerworld or on that cancer journey,
you know, we have the storms ofa cancer diagnosis and all that
that entails, and the fear andthe anxiety that tries to creep
in.
But when we are rooted in anauthentic relationship with
Jesus, we can have peace in themidst of chaos and overwhelm.
(19:04):
And he can continue to guide usin our personal lives and in
what to do.
Dr. Rob Reimer (19:09):
And this is the promise of God.
It's the peace of God thattranscends all understanding.
So my point is when that getsrobbed from us, we're living
beneath our privilege.
And a lot of times the reasonit's robbed for us is because my
temporal citizenship has becomemore paramount to me than my
(19:29):
eternal citizenship.
And so I, on a daily basis, havegot to do that work of making
sure my eternal citizenship ismy primary citizenship in life.
Ivelisse Page (19:43):
Spirituality, you know, you talk about in the book
often intersects with ouremotional well being, you know,
and how this impacts ourphysical health too.
So can you share about how youaddress the emotional aspect of
one's relationship with God,especially in times of struggle,
like cancer or spiritual drynessin one's life?
Dr. Rob Reimer (20:03):
So for me, one of the things I do every single
day as part of my spiritualpractice is I process my
negative emotion every day.
So I just recognize, again, ifwe go back to the fruit of the
spirit, when I'm abiding inChrist, what I should experience
is love, joy, and peace.
When I'm not experiencing love,joy, and peace, I would argue
(20:26):
that one of the earliestindicators I'm starting to drift
out of alignment with God is anegative emotion.
So, I feel anxious, I feelangry, I feel sad.
Now, in and of themselves,they're just emotions, they're
not bad.
The problem is when I don'taddress it.
And I don't process it.
(20:48):
And again, you know, here it isculture, right?
So Western culture doesn'treally process emotion generally
very effectively, right?
Jewish culture, super good atit.
So think about the Psalms.
Forty percent of the Psalms arelament Psalms where they're just
drilling down on negativeemotion and trying to get it
(21:08):
out.
Now they have a wide expressionof emotional reality.
They have celebration and joyand there's exuberance.
And there's love and there'speace and, but then they have
all this other garbage, thenegative side of humanity.
There's anger, there's hurt,there's grief, there's sadness,
etc.
There's fear.
And they're processing thatnegative stuff to get back to
(21:31):
love, joy, and peace.
If I don't process it, it robsme of love, joy, and peace.
I know I have thoroughlyprocessed it.
When love joy and peace begin toemerge again with consistency in
my life.
And so that's just part of whatI do every single day.
Every day.
I just like, okay Let's take aquick emotional state of being.
(21:53):
Where am I at?
Where do I feel angst?
Where do I feel irritation?
Where am I starting to be alittle bit hurt in life by
people around me?
And then I process that stuff.
I do what I need to do.
Um, listen, a huge part of thisfor me, I'm just being honest,
right, is death to self.
So just one of my basiclearnings in life, the only time
(22:18):
I find myself miserable in lifeis when I'm making life too much
about me.
I have never found myselfmiserable when I am centered on
Jesus.
When I am making life all aboutJesus, I don't feel miserable.
When I am centered on Jesus andfocused on loving others, I
(22:39):
don't feel miserable.
You know when I feel miserable?
When I'm making life all aboutme.
It's like, what about me?
What about my wants, my needs,my feelings, my emotions, my
rights, my opinions?
What about me?
That is always the place where Istart to drift out of alignment
with Jesus.
And ultimately, that's allreally being a sinner is all
about.
(22:59):
It's just making life too muchabout us.
Ivelisse Page (23:02):
Yes.
Dr. Rob Reimer (23:02):
So, for me, negative emotion is often tied
to just that.
Ivelisse Page (23:08):
Very true.
So, at Believe Big, we also talka lot about the importance of
family, friends, caregivers, tosomeone who is on this cancering
journey.
You know, community is crucial.
Not many people, believe it ornot, have it.
But, what role do community andrelationships play in helping
one live an authentic Christianlife as described in your book?
Dr. Rob Reimer (23:32):
Well, so part of this, Ivelisse, is the fact that
we all have a tendency to be alittle bit deluded, right?
We're all truth avoidantcreatures.
This again is part of what itreally means to be a sinner.
So the problem is, I believe myown press, And I have blind
(23:52):
sides to my own darkness.
This is why we need community.
So let me give you an example,right?
So you're in the kitchen of yourhouse.
You're cooking something reallygood, right?
When you first start cooking andit smells really good, you're
like, oh man, that smells reallygood.
But you're in there long enough,you start to lose the smell.
And then somebody else walks inand they're like, wow, what are
(24:14):
you cooking?
That smells amazing, right?
Okay, change the illustrationjust slightly.
You're in your kitchen, you'vebeen there all day, and
something starts to rot andsmell in your garbage or your
refrigerator, and you don'tnotice it because you're
saturated in the atmosphere,right?
But someone else walks in whohasn't been there all day with
this dying smell, and they'relike, Oh my gosh, what is dead
(24:40):
in here?
This is terrible.
We need to get rid of this,right?
Okay, this is why we needcommunity.
Because other people smell ourgarbage before we do.
Ivelisse Page (24:50):
That is so true.
Dr. Rob Reimer (24:51):
We get so used to our own garbage, we don't
even smell it.
So, the marriage crisis that Jenand I went through that I talk
about in Soul Care, I mean, shewas sniffing stuff out on me
that I just blew past.
And vice versa, right?
And so the reality is,relationship is critically
important to self awareness.
(25:12):
And self awareness is thegateway to transformation.
It doesn't guarantee it, but youabsolutely can't get there
without it.
You know, we use a line in theU.
S., right?
We say, what you don't knowwon't hurt you.
What you don't know aboutyourself is killing you and it's
killing everybody around you.
Self awareness is a gift, man.
God doesn't shine light to makeus feel bad.
(25:34):
He shines light to get us free.
But sometimes we're resistant tothe light the Holy Spirit offers
to us and the people around us?
They're critically important forus to begin to see the truth
about ourselves.
Ivelisse Page (25:46):
Yes.
Yes.
Dr. Rob Reimer (25:47):
And then when we're dying, right inside
emotionally, they're also thereto love us and encourage us and
support us and lift us up andpray for us.
So there's not just that darkside, but I think the dark side
usually isn't what we thinkabout.
We usually think about thesecond side, especially in your
context.
Ivelisse Page (26:08):
Yes.
That's so good.
Now you talked about our Westernculture, and you've led Soul
Care conferences worldwide.
You know, how has thatexperience influenced your
perspective on what you wroteabout authenticity and faith,
especially across differentcultures and Christian
traditions.
Dr. Rob Reimer (26:25):
So one of the things that's happened as I
travel around the world, I wouldjust make, um, two observations
that seem to be kind ofuniversal.
So first one, um, the singlegreatest problem we're having in
the church today worldwide iswe're making life too much about
us, and not enough about Jesus.
And the corollary statement, notenough about Jesus, is always
(26:48):
true when you're making life toomuch about you.
Okay?
Which is why Jesus told us wehad to pick up our cross daily
and follow him.
In other words, die to self andmake it all about him.
That's the only way you're evergoing to experience freedom and
fullness and abundant life.
Other than that, you're alwaysgoing to be miserable because
you're making life too muchabout you.
So we're making it way too muchabout us, too much about our
rights, our opinions, ourfeelings, our emotions, just too
(27:11):
much about us.
But there's no freedom in that.
So that's number one.
That is a universally true.
I've been on every continent onthe planet.
except Antarctica.
And it is the condition way toooften.
It's human.
It's the human condition.
This is what it is to be asinner.
(27:31):
Your self bias is overwhelming.
Okay, which again is why we needcommunication.
Second thing, um, as I travelthe church worldwide, we become
very religious.
Without death to self, you'regoing to become very religious.
Why?
Because you are doing all thesereligious things.
(27:51):
Going to church, reading yourBible, praying, fasting, et
cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
Trying to be a good moralperson, but you substitute
learned behaviors and rightreligious phrases and right
religious practices forauthentic, deep experience with
(28:13):
God.
And you don't even know it.
Ivelisse Page (28:16):
So, in closing, you know, someone who's
listening today, and this mayall be very new to them.
You know, someone who's new totheir faith or has had limited
spiritual experiences.
What would be the first stepsyou would recommend to begin
building a meaningful, genuinerelationship with God?
Dr. Rob Reimer (28:35):
One, I totally agree with what you said
earlier.
You got to have some community,right?
We need that.
We need people to kind of holdup a mirror to us and go, Hey,
do you see this?
Have you noticed this aboutyourself?
Like we need that.
We all need that.
So you got to get in community.
You know, you can't produce adeep spiritual life with
privatized religion.
(28:56):
Privatized religion, when it'sall just you and God, you and
God, you and God.
When you have privatizedreligion, it always produces
pride that leaves you out of theopportunity of freedom and
fullness.
So the community aspect is superimportant.
So I'm going to start by makingsure I have friends around me
that are dead serious aboutfollowing Jesus.
(29:17):
That's number one.
Number two, I'm going to getserious about really reckoning
with my self life.
Listen, Jesus principle is yougotta die to live.
You gotta surrender toexperience peace and freedom and
fullness.
As long as you're making it toomuch about yourself, you are
robbing yourself of theopportunity to experience all
(29:39):
that Jesus has for you.
You've gotta lay down yourrights and pick up your cross
and follow Jesus.
And it is abundant life, deepconnection, incredible peace,
love, and joy, but it only comeswith death to self.
(30:00):
It doesn't ever come by beingmore self centered.
So you gotta believe Jesus wayis the best way.
Third thing for me, I would saybuild a relationship with God,
which means you got to spendtime.
Any kind of relationship, yougot to spend time with the
person.
If you don't spend time withthem, you're not going to have a
strong relationship.
(30:21):
Same with God.
So you use spiritualdisciplines, Bible reading,
prayer, et cetera.
You use those as opportunitiesto connect deeper to God, but
make sure your goal in yourspiritual discipline is to
connect to God, not thediscipline itself.
So the purpose of reading yourBible isn't to know the Bible.
(30:41):
The purpose of reading yourBible is to encounter the living
God.
If you read and gain knowledgewithout encounter, you'll be
more like the Pharisees and lesslike Jesus.
Make sure it's about encounter.
That's true for every spiritualdiscipline.
So make sure when you're doingthose, God is your goal.
And actually hearing him,connecting to him and loving him
(31:07):
and loving people is your realgoal of these spiritual
practices.
Ivelisse Page (31:13):
I love that.
Those are amazing.
And I would just add one thingfor the person who's listening
who, you know, doesn't have thatrelationship and is even not
even sure that God exists that Iwould challenge you to tonight,
just ask Jesus to speak to you,to come into your dreams and to,
uh, reveal himself to you and hewill.
(31:33):
And, uh, a side note as well,like you were talking about
community and relationship, alsoto not focus so much on
individuals like pastors andpriests, but in Jesus himself.
We are all fallible, and we allmake mistakes, and and it's easy
for us to feel the hypocrisysometimes in churches that, you
know, some Christians and nonChristians have shared.
(31:56):
And I think if we focus our, ourattention on Jesus, as you were
saying, and his word andspending time with him, on being
his disciple, a follower of him,then that's what's going to
really lead to true peace andjoy and love that you talk
about.
Dr. Rob Reimer (32:11):
Which I would argue, therefore, start in the
Gospels and just read about whoJesus presents himself to be.
What does he say?
What does he do?
Who is he?
Really just focus on Jesus.
He's the main story there.
Ivelisse Page (32:25):
Yes.
Well, thank you, Rob, once againfor joining us today on what it
means to live an authentic lifewith Jesus.
We really appreciate you takingtime today for this podcast and
we are going to put a link toyour book and to the Soul Care
website so that those who wantto learn more can go ahead and
click on that and find out more.
(32:46):
So look for those in our shownotes, but thank you again for
joining us.
Dr. Rob Reimer (32:49):
Good to be with you.
Ivelisse Page (32:58):
If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to
help support our podcast, pleasesubscribe and share it with
others.
Be sure to visit believebig.orgto access the show notes and
discover our bonus content.
Thanks again and keep BelievingBig!
Hi, I'm Ivelisse Page, and thanks for listening
to the Believe Big podcast, theshow where we take a deep dive
into your healing with healthexperts, integrative
practitioners, biblical faithleaders, and cancer thrivers
from around the globe.
(00:34):
Welcome to today's episode onthe Believe Big podcast.
My name is Ivelisse Page, andit's an honor to be with you
today.
Today, we get to welcome back aspecial guest whose passion for
God's kingdom has led him tohelp others through spiritual
renewal.
Rob joined us in season two ofthe Believe Big podcast to talk
about Soul Care.
(00:56):
Today, he returns to share abouthis new book, Authentic.
Dr.
Reimer is the founder of RenewalInternational and he assists
pastors, leaders, and churchesglobally by equipping people to
live in freedom in Christ and towalk in the fullness and power
of the Holy Spirit.
He has served as the professorof pastoral theology at Alliance
(01:17):
University in New York and wasthe founding and lead pastor of
a church in New England.
Dr.
Reimer is an author of eightbooks and he also teaches and
leads conferences all over theworld.
Welcome back to the show, Dr.
Reimer.
Dr. Rob Reimer (01:33):
Good to be with you, Ivelisse.
Ivelisse Page (01:35):
So you were actually with us two seasons
ago.
And in that season, you sharedyour favorite health tip, which
is a life balanced physically,spiritually, and emotionally.
And in the second episode, youshared that it takes two healthy
people to have a healthyrelationship.
Now we're going to reallychallenge you and ask if you
have a third favorite health tipfor our listeners today.
Dr. Rob Reimer (01:58):
All right, so let's talk about Sabbath for a
second.
Um, so one of the principlesthat I try to follow in my life
is Sabbath.
I will say that I don't alwaysfollow it the way most people
follow it.
So the way most people follow itis they take a day off per week
and it's usually Sunday or somepeople maybe are like in my
(02:19):
profession as they're preachingon Sundays so they take
Saturday.
But what I have done is I'velooked at Sabbath over the
course of a year.
And the reality is we have tohave enough rest and enough, you
know, balanced space ofrestoration and recreation and
(02:41):
re-creation space to be able tocarry us through seasons of
busyness and pain and heartacheand stress.
So, for me, I always look at itover the whole year.
So, for example, this year, Ilost my very best friend at the
beginning of the year.
And, he died suddenly,unexpectedly, in January,
(03:02):
January 8th.
And so, I knew right away, thisyear, coming into this year, was
going to be a year that wassuper hard for me emotionally.
It was going to be way moredraining than most years in my
life.
I just said to my wife when myfriend died, I mean, he lived
three miles from me.
I spent regular time with himalmost, you know, four or five
times a week.
I said to Jen, when he died, itwas like losing my second wife.
(03:24):
You know, I mean, it was just,uh, you know, that close.
Anyhow with that I realizedcoming in this year, I just said
to the Lord, this is going to bea huge sort of drain on my soul.
So what do I need to do?
And the first thing I heard fromthe spirit of God was I was
always taking one retreat dayevery month.
And I heard him say, go to tworetreat days every month.
(03:47):
And so every month this year,I've taken two retreat days.
And as a result, while there'ssadness, there's always sadness
and grief you carry in this lifewith loss.
There's also been joy and peace,and love.
All year long, it's enabled meto stay reasonably healthy,
especially emotionally andspiritually, in the midst of
(04:10):
extreme loss.
We went on to lose, uh, sixother people that we deeply
loved this year.
It's just been a brutal year forloss.
Most loss I've ever experiencedin my life.
And yet, that extra retreat day,the power of Sabbath over the
long haul.
Not just the weekly, but thatyearly Sabbath concept really
(04:34):
saved me this year in the midstof tremendous loss.
Ivelisse Page (04:38):
I'm so sorry to hear about all that loss, and,
you know, real quick, what doesthat retreat day look like?
If you're taking Sunday to justenjoy it and to live, like, what
does that retreat dayadditionally from Sabbath look
like?
Dr. Rob Reimer (04:52):
Yeah, so, for me personally, when I go to spend a
day alone with the Lord, this iswhat it looks like.
I will usually during that day,I'll fast most of the times.
So I just fast breakfast, lunch,I'll eat dinner with the family.
Then I also ride my bike,usually in the morning at some
point, I'll take a 15 mile bikeride or something.
(05:12):
And then I'll spend the entireday alone with the Lord.
Usually I take the bike ride inthe middle, especially if it's a
little chillier, you know, Ilike it to, I like to ride when
it's a little warmer.
So I'll start with a couplehours alone with God.
Then I'll go on a bike ride,come back and spend 3 or 4 more
hours alone with the Lord.
Um, so there's scripture intake.
(05:34):
I'm meditating on scripture.
There's a intercession going onthere for sure.
A lot of worship.
And most of the times I don'teven sing.
I just sit and soak in hispresence, and then I'll spend at
least an hour, maybe two, insilence, just sitting before the
Lord, quiet, just fixing mytotal attention and affection on
(05:59):
Jesus and just letting him saywhat he wants or just kind of
abiding and lingering in hispresence for an entire day.
Ivelisse Page (06:09):
I love that.
I, I, I need to incorporate thatmore as well.
I, I feel like so many times andespecially in our busy seasons
that we keep pushing and youknow, to have that time to just
rest, to stay away fromtechnology and to just listen,
um, you know, says a lot for oursouls.
So I, I really love that youshared that tip today.
(06:32):
You know, you, you have your newbook, Authentic, and I'm almost
finished with it.
It is fantastic.
Oh, thanks.
Yeah, it is really a great book,and, um, it discusses, you know,
finding true intimacy with God,similar to what you were sharing
about these retreat days.
How would you say the healingjourney in Soul Care complements
(06:52):
or differs from the journeytowards a true personal
relationship with God that youdescribe in this book.
Dr. Rob Reimer (06:58):
Yeah, so I think it's super hard to draw near to
God if you have a lot ofunprocessed soul issues.
So one of the things that Ibelieve is that it is often our
unaddressed soul issues thatkeeps us from our next level of
intimacy with God.
They become these barriers toour life.
(07:20):
Whether it is unaddressed sin,or it is unaddressed hurt, and
we've carried around somebitterness, even, or anger,
resentment, grudge holdingstuff, or it's unaddressed
wounds.
When we have this stuff in oursoul, it blocks the flow of the
Holy Spirit in our lives.
(07:40):
And so, if you want to draw nearto God, and you want to
experience more of his freedomand fullness, and you want to
experience more closeness toHim, these things have to be
addressed.
And so I think it's a directconnection between our soul
issues and our intimacy.
Ivelisse Page (08:00):
I agree.
You know, often in religion, weget comfortable with things like
rituals and habits.
In Authentic, you discuss therisk of substituting real
encounters with God forreligious habits or rituals.
Does Authentic address thosebreaking patterns in our faith
life, perhaps in the form ofreligious habits that prevent
(08:21):
genuine encounters with God,and, and how can believers
become aware of when this ishappening and what can they do
to redirect their spiritualfocus?
Dr. Rob Reimer (08:30):
So one of the great problems we have, and this
particularly true of WesternChristianity, right?
So it's a very knowledge basedconcept in our Western
educational systems, right?
So it's, you know, you go toschool, you master the knowledge
of a subject.
You write down the rightanswers, and now you get an A,
(08:51):
and you get a degree.
And so it's all about themastery of knowledge.
That's really what our educationis about.
But that's not what discipleshipis about.
It's never about that.
And so we can trick ourselvesinto believing because I know
all these right answers and Iknow all this right theology and
I've read my Bible and I'veprayed and I've done all these
(09:13):
right things.
Now I'm rightly connected toGod.
But, you know, Jesus looks atthe Pharisees, and they're
reading their Bible, they'repraying, they're fasting,
they're tithing down to theherbs in their garden, and he
looks at them and says, Are younot in error, at one point,
because you know not theScriptures.
They had memorized the entireOld Testament Pentateuch, right?
(09:36):
The first five books, and theyknew their Bibles, but they
weren't living it.
So they did all these rightdisciplines, and they killed
Jesus.
At the end of the day, you'vegot to be able to look at this
stuff and go, is all this rightbehavior leading to right
relationship?
So you got to start evaluatingthings a little bit different,
right?
So one of the things I talkabout in Authentic is you have
(09:57):
to ask the right questions.
Too often we're asking the wrongquestion.
So we're asking questions like,are you spending time with God?
And I would argue, well yeah,but even the Pharisees spent
time with God, and they killedJesus, so that's the wrong
question.
Can we ask better questions?
So one of the questions, forexample, about your spiritual
practices is not, are you doingthose things, but, is it
(10:22):
working?
That's a far better question toask yourself.
So yeah, do I want you to spendtime Bible reading, prayer,
worship, etc.
Of course, but we just talkedabout it at the beginning.
It was one of my health tips.
I want to spend time in Sabbath.
I want to spend block timesalone with God, but is it
working?
(10:44):
That's the key question.
So how do you know if it'sworking?
That is something I think weneed to evaluate.
And you know, that's a bigimportant question that you have
to ask.
Ivelisse Page (10:55):
Yeah.
And I feel that, you know, manytimes we feel better, right if
we're checking off those boxes,like I read my Bible, I spent
time in worship.
And, one of the things that Ilearned during my sabbatical was
to do life differently, not onlyin finding joy in the simple
things in life, but even in myspiritual practices So, my
(11:17):
spiritual director asked me,what have you been doing?
And what do you normally do?
So I shared and she's like Iwant you to put that all to the
side and I want you to do newthings I want you to draw what
Jesus shows you throughout theday instead of journaling, if
that's something you're alwaysdoing.
I want you to go for prayerwalks.
When you're talking aboutforgiveness, pick up a stone
(11:37):
along your walk and hold it as arepresentation of the things
that you may be holding that youmay not know.
And at the end of the walk,throw it and release it to God.
And so simple things like thatthat really opened my soul to
something new and to experienceGod in a different way And I
love that question is how do youknow if it's working and I feel
(11:57):
personally for me I know thatwhen I'm experiencing the fruits
of the Spirit then I amexperiencing God in the way I
feel I should I have more peace.
I have more joy I have more loveand patience and kindness and
goodness faithfulness all ofthose wonderful gifts that he's
given us is a reflection of howwe feel when we're doing life
(12:19):
right with him.
Dr. Rob Reimer (12:20):
Yeah, so when I'm rightly aligned with Jesus,
then the emotion of Jesus beginsto emerge for me.
So think about it, right?
The first three in that fruit ofthe spirit you just listed are
love, joy, and peace.
So when I am correctly alignedto Jesus, what should be
(12:42):
bubbling up from deep wellswithin me are love, joy, and
peace..
And they're not circumstantial.
Think with me about Paul, right?
He's in prison.
He's getting the snot kicked outof him and he's worshiping and
he's writing a letter to thechurch at Philippi talking about
(13:05):
joy that's bursting in his soul.
Like that ain't normal.
But that's normal when you'reabiding in Jesus.
Why?
Because He has complete joy.
He is the Prince of Peace.
He is love.
So when I'm connected to the onewho is complete in joy, the
(13:28):
prince of peace, and themanifestation of love, guess
what happens?
Love, joy, and peace bubble upin my soul.
So for me, one of the keys thatI have to evaluate is, do I
experience love, joy, and peacemanifesting regularly and
consistently in my life?
Or am I experiencing irritation,aggravation, annoyance, and so
(13:52):
on and so forth?
Because that's not the fruit ofJesus.
But I have had times in my lifewhere I've been doing all the
right things and not manifestinglove, joy, and peace.
Ivelisse Page (14:04):
Yes.
And you also talk about in thebook about sustaining a deep
connection with God over alifetime, right?
And this is hard for a lot ofpeople to do, especially when
they're finding themselvesstraying over time due to those
challenges and circumstancesthat you talk about.
What are some practices or dailyhabits that help nurture and
maintain that depth in, in, inour lifetime walk with Jesus?
Dr. Rob Reimer (14:28):
So, one of the key things for me all the time
is like, I have to constantlysink my roots into my eternal
citizenship.
As you and I are recording this,right, we just had an election.
So let's be honest.
I have friends on both sides ofthe political spectrum, okay?
I have a ton of friends that,for them, they're looking at
(14:50):
this thing and going, oh no, ifso and so wins.
Oh, the world is falling apart.
And then I got a ton of otherfriends on the other side of the
spectrum that if so and so theother party wins, oh, the world
is falling apart.
Let me say, no matter who won,and we know now that Trump has
won, as you know, the next dayhere.
(15:12):
Jesus is still on his throne,and he's not nervous.
But can I tell you, Jesus wasn'tnervous in World War II when
Hitler was in charge.
And Jesus isn't gonna benervous, no matter what idiot
stands on the throne, and nomatter what horrible decisions
they make.
Jesus is the Prince of Peace.
(15:34):
And my true citizenship is notin this world.
I'm just passing throughaccording to my Bible.
I'm living for another kingdom.
I live for that king of thatkingdom that's eternal.
And when I get that right, thedisappointments of this life
(15:56):
cause me to grieve the lossesthat should have not happened or
the things that shouldn't haveturned out the way they turned
out.
But at the end of the day, allthe disappointment and grief of
this world reminds me that I'mnot really living for this
world, that this world can neverreally satisfy, that it is the
next world that I'm actuallyliving for.
(16:18):
And that causes me to sink deeproots in my eternal citizenship.
When I do that, love, joy, andpeace are an abundant fruit
flowing in my soul.
Ivelisse Page (16:32):
Yes.
But don't you also agree that asbelievers, that we are his hands
and feet here and that biblicalvalues need to be upheld and,
you know, when, when things aregoing amok in our world, that
we, we have the power, you know,to make sure that the leaders
are following these biblicalvalues and protecting life and,
(16:54):
you know, all the issues oftoday.
And so, yes, I, I 100 percentagree that our citizenship is in
Jesus and either way, He isstill on the throne.
Absolutely.
But I also feel like what is ourrole as citizens here on earth
to make sure that we are sharingHis life and being light in that
(17:14):
darkness.
Dr. Rob Reimer (17:15):
Yeah, we have to be a light in the darkness, but
let's be honest, there's alwaysdarkness.
And it's not just in, you know,whatever political leader I
have, because they all havedarkness in them, and they're
all very egotistical, for themost part, self centered people
who, um, don't always make moralchoices.
And the reality is that darknessis in me, too, and in you.
(17:39):
This is what it means to be asinner.
So, for me, a huge part of thisthing is just recognizing if I'm
gonna lose my peace over who'sgotten elected, or over what
decision some political leaderis making, then I gotta tell
you, I have more Americancitizenship than I do Kingdom
citizenship.
(18:00):
And that's not Paul at all.
That's not Jesus at all.
No matter what political leaderswere involved in whatever they
were doing, and again, Paul'sgetting thrown in prison and
being threatened with death, andeventually killed, and yet it
was never going to rob him ofhis peace, because he had deep,
eternal citizen roots.
(18:22):
That's a big deal.
So, I think part of this ishaving these kinds of eternal
perspectives.
If you want to live a healthylife on Earth where you're
undisrupted, by earthcircumstances, you've got to
have deeper, you know, sort ofroots in your eternal
citizenship.
It's a big deal.
Ivelisse Page (18:41):
Yeah.
And similar to those who arelistening on this podcast from
our community in the cancerworld or on that cancer journey,
you know, we have the storms ofa cancer diagnosis and all that
that entails, and the fear andthe anxiety that tries to creep
in.
But when we are rooted in anauthentic relationship with
Jesus, we can have peace in themidst of chaos and overwhelm.
(19:04):
And he can continue to guide usin our personal lives and in
what to do.
Dr. Rob Reimer (19:09):
And this is the promise of God.
It's the peace of God thattranscends all understanding.
So my point is when that getsrobbed from us, we're living
beneath our privilege.
And a lot of times the reasonit's robbed for us is because my
temporal citizenship has becomemore paramount to me than my
(19:29):
eternal citizenship.
And so I, on a daily basis, havegot to do that work of making
sure my eternal citizenship ismy primary citizenship in life.
Ivelisse Page (19:43):
Spirituality, you know, you talk about in the book
often intersects with ouremotional well being, you know,
and how this impacts ourphysical health too.
So can you share about how youaddress the emotional aspect of
one's relationship with God,especially in times of struggle,
like cancer or spiritual drynessin one's life?
Dr. Rob Reimer (20:03):
So for me, one of the things I do every single
day as part of my spiritualpractice is I process my
negative emotion every day.
So I just recognize, again, ifwe go back to the fruit of the
spirit, when I'm abiding inChrist, what I should experience
is love, joy, and peace.
When I'm not experiencing love,joy, and peace, I would argue
(20:26):
that one of the earliestindicators I'm starting to drift
out of alignment with God is anegative emotion.
So, I feel anxious, I feelangry, I feel sad.
Now, in and of themselves,they're just emotions, they're
not bad.
The problem is when I don'taddress it.
And I don't process it.
(20:48):
And again, you know, here it isculture, right?
So Western culture doesn'treally process emotion generally
very effectively, right?
Jewish culture, super good atit.
So think about the Psalms.
Forty percent of the Psalms arelament Psalms where they're just
drilling down on negativeemotion and trying to get it
(21:08):
out.
Now they have a wide expressionof emotional reality.
They have celebration and joyand there's exuberance.
And there's love and there'speace and, but then they have
all this other garbage, thenegative side of humanity.
There's anger, there's hurt,there's grief, there's sadness,
etc.
There's fear.
And they're processing thatnegative stuff to get back to
(21:31):
love, joy, and peace.
If I don't process it, it robsme of love, joy, and peace.
I know I have thoroughlyprocessed it.
When love joy and peace begin toemerge again with consistency in
my life.
And so that's just part of whatI do every single day.
Every day.
I just like, okay Let's take aquick emotional state of being.
(21:53):
Where am I at?
Where do I feel angst?
Where do I feel irritation?
Where am I starting to be alittle bit hurt in life by
people around me?
And then I process that stuff.
I do what I need to do.
Um, listen, a huge part of thisfor me, I'm just being honest,
right, is death to self.
So just one of my basiclearnings in life, the only time
(22:18):
I find myself miserable in lifeis when I'm making life too much
about me.
I have never found myselfmiserable when I am centered on
Jesus.
When I am making life all aboutJesus, I don't feel miserable.
When I am centered on Jesus andfocused on loving others, I
(22:39):
don't feel miserable.
You know when I feel miserable?
When I'm making life all aboutme.
It's like, what about me?
What about my wants, my needs,my feelings, my emotions, my
rights, my opinions?
What about me?
That is always the place where Istart to drift out of alignment
with Jesus.
And ultimately, that's allreally being a sinner is all
about.
(22:59):
It's just making life too muchabout us.
Ivelisse Page (23:02):
Yes.
Dr. Rob Reimer (23:02):
So, for me, negative emotion is often tied
to just that.
Ivelisse Page (23:08):
Very true.
So, at Believe Big, we also talka lot about the importance of
family, friends, caregivers, tosomeone who is on this cancering
journey.
You know, community is crucial.
Not many people, believe it ornot, have it.
But, what role do community andrelationships play in helping
one live an authentic Christianlife as described in your book?
Dr. Rob Reimer (23:32):
Well, so part of this, Ivelisse, is the fact that
we all have a tendency to be alittle bit deluded, right?
We're all truth avoidantcreatures.
This again is part of what itreally means to be a sinner.
So the problem is, I believe myown press, And I have blind
(23:52):
sides to my own darkness.
This is why we need community.
So let me give you an example,right?
So you're in the kitchen of yourhouse.
You're cooking something reallygood, right?
When you first start cooking andit smells really good, you're
like, oh man, that smells reallygood.
But you're in there long enough,you start to lose the smell.
And then somebody else walks inand they're like, wow, what are
(24:14):
you cooking?
That smells amazing, right?
Okay, change the illustrationjust slightly.
You're in your kitchen, you'vebeen there all day, and
something starts to rot andsmell in your garbage or your
refrigerator, and you don'tnotice it because you're
saturated in the atmosphere,right?
But someone else walks in whohasn't been there all day with
this dying smell, and they'relike, Oh my gosh, what is dead
(24:40):
in here?
This is terrible.
We need to get rid of this,right?
Okay, this is why we needcommunity.
Because other people smell ourgarbage before we do.
Ivelisse Page (24:50):
That is so true.
Dr. Rob Reimer (24:51):
We get so used to our own garbage, we don't
even smell it.
So, the marriage crisis that Jenand I went through that I talk
about in Soul Care, I mean, shewas sniffing stuff out on me
that I just blew past.
And vice versa, right?
And so the reality is,relationship is critically
important to self awareness.
(25:12):
And self awareness is thegateway to transformation.
It doesn't guarantee it, but youabsolutely can't get there
without it.
You know, we use a line in theU.
S., right?
We say, what you don't knowwon't hurt you.
What you don't know aboutyourself is killing you and it's
killing everybody around you.
Self awareness is a gift, man.
God doesn't shine light to makeus feel bad.
(25:34):
He shines light to get us free.
But sometimes we're resistant tothe light the Holy Spirit offers
to us and the people around us?
They're critically important forus to begin to see the truth
about ourselves.
Ivelisse Page (25:46):
Yes.
Yes.
Dr. Rob Reimer (25:47):
And then when we're dying, right inside
emotionally, they're also thereto love us and encourage us and
support us and lift us up andpray for us.
So there's not just that darkside, but I think the dark side
usually isn't what we thinkabout.
We usually think about thesecond side, especially in your
context.
Ivelisse Page (26:08):
Yes.
That's so good.
Now you talked about our Westernculture, and you've led Soul
Care conferences worldwide.
You know, how has thatexperience influenced your
perspective on what you wroteabout authenticity and faith,
especially across differentcultures and Christian
traditions.
Dr. Rob Reimer (26:25):
So one of the things that's happened as I
travel around the world, I wouldjust make, um, two observations
that seem to be kind ofuniversal.
So first one, um, the singlegreatest problem we're having in
the church today worldwide iswe're making life too much about
us, and not enough about Jesus.
And the corollary statement, notenough about Jesus, is always
(26:48):
true when you're making life toomuch about you.
Okay?
Which is why Jesus told us wehad to pick up our cross daily
and follow him.
In other words, die to self andmake it all about him.
That's the only way you're evergoing to experience freedom and
fullness and abundant life.
Other than that, you're alwaysgoing to be miserable because
you're making life too muchabout you.
So we're making it way too muchabout us, too much about our
rights, our opinions, ourfeelings, our emotions, just too
(27:11):
much about us.
But there's no freedom in that.
So that's number one.
That is a universally true.
I've been on every continent onthe planet.
except Antarctica.
And it is the condition way toooften.
It's human.
It's the human condition.
This is what it is to be asinner.
(27:31):
Your self bias is overwhelming.
Okay, which again is why we needcommunication.
Second thing, um, as I travelthe church worldwide, we become
very religious.
Without death to self, you'regoing to become very religious.
Why?
Because you are doing all thesereligious things.
(27:51):
Going to church, reading yourBible, praying, fasting, et
cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
Trying to be a good moralperson, but you substitute
learned behaviors and rightreligious phrases and right
religious practices forauthentic, deep experience with
(28:13):
God.
And you don't even know it.
Ivelisse Page (28:16):
So, in closing, you know, someone who's
listening today, and this mayall be very new to them.
You know, someone who's new totheir faith or has had limited
spiritual experiences.
What would be the first stepsyou would recommend to begin
building a meaningful, genuinerelationship with God?
Dr. Rob Reimer (28:35):
One, I totally agree with what you said
earlier.
You got to have some community,right?
We need that.
We need people to kind of holdup a mirror to us and go, Hey,
do you see this?
Have you noticed this aboutyourself?
Like we need that.
We all need that.
So you got to get in community.
You know, you can't produce adeep spiritual life with
privatized religion.
(28:56):
Privatized religion, when it'sall just you and God, you and
God, you and God.
When you have privatizedreligion, it always produces
pride that leaves you out of theopportunity of freedom and
fullness.
So the community aspect is superimportant.
So I'm going to start by makingsure I have friends around me
that are dead serious aboutfollowing Jesus.
(29:17):
That's number one.
Number two, I'm going to getserious about really reckoning
with my self life.
Listen, Jesus principle is yougotta die to live.
You gotta surrender toexperience peace and freedom and
fullness.
As long as you're making it toomuch about yourself, you are
robbing yourself of theopportunity to experience all
(29:39):
that Jesus has for you.
You've gotta lay down yourrights and pick up your cross
and follow Jesus.
And it is abundant life, deepconnection, incredible peace,
love, and joy, but it only comeswith death to self.
(30:00):
It doesn't ever come by beingmore self centered.
So you gotta believe Jesus wayis the best way.
Third thing for me, I would saybuild a relationship with God,
which means you got to spendtime.
Any kind of relationship, yougot to spend time with the
person.
If you don't spend time withthem, you're not going to have a
strong relationship.
(30:21):
Same with God.
So you use spiritualdisciplines, Bible reading,
prayer, et cetera.
You use those as opportunitiesto connect deeper to God, but
make sure your goal in yourspiritual discipline is to
connect to God, not thediscipline itself.
So the purpose of reading yourBible isn't to know the Bible.
(30:41):
The purpose of reading yourBible is to encounter the living
God.
If you read and gain knowledgewithout encounter, you'll be
more like the Pharisees and lesslike Jesus.
Make sure it's about encounter.
That's true for every spiritualdiscipline.
So make sure when you're doingthose, God is your goal.
And actually hearing him,connecting to him and loving him
(31:07):
and loving people is your realgoal of these spiritual
practices.
Ivelisse Page (31:13):
I love that.
Those are amazing.
And I would just add one thingfor the person who's listening
who, you know, doesn't have thatrelationship and is even not
even sure that God exists that Iwould challenge you to tonight,
just ask Jesus to speak to you,to come into your dreams and to,
uh, reveal himself to you and hewill.
(31:33):
And, uh, a side note as well,like you were talking about
community and relationship, alsoto not focus so much on
individuals like pastors andpriests, but in Jesus himself.
We are all fallible, and we allmake mistakes, and and it's easy
for us to feel the hypocrisysometimes in churches that, you
know, some Christians and nonChristians have shared.
(31:56):
And I think if we focus our, ourattention on Jesus, as you were
saying, and his word andspending time with him, on being
his disciple, a follower of him,then that's what's going to
really lead to true peace andjoy and love that you talk
about.
Dr. Rob Reimer (32:11):
Which I would argue, therefore, start in the
Gospels and just read about whoJesus presents himself to be.
What does he say?
What does he do?
Who is he?
Really just focus on Jesus.
He's the main story there.
Ivelisse Page (32:25):
Yes.
Well, thank you, Rob, once againfor joining us today on what it
means to live an authentic lifewith Jesus.
We really appreciate you takingtime today for this podcast and
we are going to put a link toyour book and to the Soul Care
website so that those who wantto learn more can go ahead and
click on that and find out more.
(32:46):
So look for those in our shownotes, but thank you again for
joining us.
Dr. Rob Reimer (32:49):
Good to be with you.
Ivelisse Page (32:58):
If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to
help support our podcast, pleasesubscribe and share it with
others.
Be sure to visit believebig.orgto access the show notes and
discover our bonus content.
Thanks again and keep BelievingBig!
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