March 25, 2025 • 34 mins
What if your emotional wounds are impacting your physical health more than you realize?
In this episode of the Believe Big Podcast, Dr. Katie Deming, a former radiation oncologist turned conscious healer, shares her powerful journey of transformation and why emotional healing is a critical part of cancer recovery. She reveals groundbreaking insights into how trauma can influence disease, the unexpected role of detoxification, and cutting-edge techniques like PSYCH-K and emotional release work.
If you've ever wondered how emotions and illness are connected—or how to begin healing on a deeper level—this conversation is a must-listen.
Learn more about Dr. Katie Deming at
Suggested Resources
- Dr. Deming's Podcast: Born To Heal
- Sunlighten Saunas
- Health Mate - Enrich 2 Sauna
- ACE - Adverse Childhood Experience study
- BOOK: Radical Hope by Dr. Kelly Turner
- Uriel Pharmacy website
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ivelisse Page (00:06):
Hi, I'm Ivelisse Page and thanks for listening to
the Believe Big podcast, theshow where we take deep dive
into your healing with healthexperts, integrative
practitioners, biblical faithleaders, and cancer thrivers
from around the globe.
(00:35):
\Welcome to today's episode onthe Believe Big podcast.
My name is Ivelisse Page andit's an honor to spend this time
with you.
Today, we welcome to the podcastDr.
Katie Deming to talk abouthealing from emotional trauma.
Dr.
Katie is a former radiationoncologist and healthcare
leader, inventor and TEDxspeaker, who is transcending the
(00:59):
boundaries of conventional andintegrative medicine to create a
new paradigm of cancerprevention treatment.
And post-treatment healing.
Today we are gonna learn alittle bit about Dr.
Katie's personal story, whichincludes how a shared death
experience transformed herperspective and led her to leave
(01:21):
Western medicine at the heightof her thriving career as a
radiation oncologist and healthleader at one of the largest
healthcare organizations.
Dr.
Katie's current method center onhelping those with cancer to
detoxify and nourish their fullphysical, mental, and emotional
and spiritual selves so they canactivate their body's innate
(01:43):
ability to heal.
Welcome to the show, Dr.
Deming.
Dr. Katie Deming (01:47):
Thank you so much.
It's my pleasure to be here.
Ivelisse Page (01:50):
We always like to start the podcast with our guest
favorite health tip.
Do you have one that you couldshare with us?
Dr. Katie Deming (01:57):
My favorite health tip would be, I think,
detoxification.
I think in today's world doingsauna.
So infrared sauna is probablylike my favorite detox, um, tip
I would say as someone like it'smy mentor often says it's like a
refrigerator in 2025.
(02:19):
Everyone should have access tousing a sauna and, I use mine
every day.
It feels so good, but it's alsoso important for detoxifying our
bodies.
Ivelisse Page (02:29):
Yes.
I I love mine too.
I, I have a Sunlighten in oneand I know people ask, so what
kind do you have?
Dr. Katie Deming (02:36):
I have a Health Mate Enrich 2.
Ivelisse Page (02:39):
Okay.
Okay.
Good to know.
Um, so what inspired yourtransition from a conventional
radiation oncologist?
Dr. Katie Deming (02:47):
Sure.
So I practiced radiationoncology for 20 years, also
served as a healthcare leader,and I was, you know, mid-career,
really kind of just doing mything.
And in 2019 I started to havethis feeling inside that
something wasn't right.
(03:08):
And I also just before I startedto really sense that like
something wasn't right, in 2018,I was at a meditation retreat
and I heard the parable of theriver and the story goes
something like this.
There's a village perched alongthe side of a river, and one day
the villagers noticed a body,someone drowning in the river.
(03:30):
So they sent out someone to savethem, pulled them to safety, and
then the next day they noticedtwo people drowning in the
river.
So they sent two villagers outto save the people.
And then the next day, four andeight and 16, and it kept
doubling every day.
So the villagers organizedthemselves and created these
very elaborate rescue systems,and they became very good at
(03:52):
rescuing people off of theriver.
And the village elders praisedthe villagers for such good work
that they were doing of rescuingall of these people.
When I heard this parable, Ijust looked at my friend and
colleague.
I happen to be at this eventwith a GYN oncologist, who's one
(04:12):
of my best friends, and I saidto her, I said, this is Western
Oncology.
This is us.
Like we are just glorifiedrescue workers on this river and
pulling people out and what theheck is going on upstream?
We're seeing younger and youngerwomen in our practices and
people are getting sicker andsicker, and I have no idea
what's getting them here.
Like we're, and then we'reputting'em on dry land, but we
(04:35):
don't really know what happenedin the first place.
And so then I'm not sure thatthey're not gonna fall back in
the river.
And so that had happened I thinkin like 2018.
I heard that story and I waslike.
Wow.
Like nobody's asking thequestion of what is wrong?
Like why are so many more peoplegetting sick and why are younger
and younger people gettingcancer?
And then in 2019, I started tohave this feeling like I wasn't
(04:56):
supposed to be practicingradiation oncology, which made
no sense because I had traineduntil I was 32 years old and
spent hundreds of thousands ofdollars to become a radiation
oncologist and actually lovedwhat I did.
Like I love taking care ofpatients.
I've cared for over 5,000 peoplein, in as a radiation
oncologist, mostly women.
(05:17):
I specialize in breast andgynecologic cancer, but.
Anyway, I was getting thismessage like, you're not
supposed to be a radiationoncologist.
And I was telling my husband, myhusband was like, well, maybe
something's wrong with youbecause if you look at your
life, you're good at what youdo.
You do meaningful work.
You care for people with cancer.
You know, it's like when peoplesay, that's meaningful work, you
(05:38):
know, and he's like, you're, youknow, you're good at it.
Your colleagues love you.
Your patients love you.
You make a good living.
You have everything that youcould want.
Maybe there's something wrongwith you.
If you are not happy with all ofthat, and now I know that's
obviously not, that's not whatwas going on, but it, I
internalized that for a littlebit and I was like, oh, maybe
(05:59):
there's something wrong with me.
Maybe I'm never gonna be happyand maybe I need to address
that, about why am I not happy?
But then in 2020.
I had something called a shareddeath experience, and this is
very similar to a near-deathexperience, but it can happen to
healthcare professionals who areat the scene where someone else
(06:20):
dies and the healthcareprofessional or the person who
is at the scene can have ametaphysical experience, much
like a near death experience,but without having their heart
stop and you know, really havingthat going through some kind of
medical crisis, and thathappened to me in the fall of
2020 and, I saw, you know, Ifelt the love and the light and
(06:44):
the, you know, just overwhelmingbeauty of what is outside this
reality.
But when I came back, I knew Ihad to leave.
I was like, okay, no longer isthis just like a niggling
feeling.
This is like, I know that I needto leave.
And then I also know thatbecause I've spent so much time
around death, like I've caredfor so many patients who have
(07:07):
died, 40% of my practice waspalliative.
So I've spent a lot of time withpeople who are facing the end of
their life, and I know that thebiggest regret that people have
is that I wasn't true to myself,that I didn't live a life that
was authentic to me.
I did what everyone else toldme, so I knew that if I didn't
follow this, that I would regretit at the end of my life.
(07:29):
And I wasn't willing to do thatregardless of whether my husband
was on board or anyone else.
And it did end up unraveling mylife.
I ended up getting a divorceand, you know, having to sell
everything to move through that.
But, um, it was just reallyclear that needed to happen.
That was the, you know, whatwhat I was meant to do, even
though it wasn't clear, youknow, what I was gonna move
(07:51):
into, it was clear what I, Ishouldn't be doing.
Ivelisse Page (07:54):
Hmm.
What a beautiful story and I, Ithink it just adds to when we
take those moments of quiet likeyou were at a meditation retreat
and how God spoke to you in thatway, through that parable.
I think so many times we're sobusy in our lives and we're
running from one thing to thenext that we don't take time to
listen and to, to look withinand to hear and to open our
(08:17):
hearts to what a difference inour life can be or a change that
could be coming to the surface.
And so what a brave thing, youknow, that you did in stepping
outside of what you've alwaysknown, to do something that was
completely different, but youknow, that you were called to
do.
So.
That's just an amazing story.
(08:37):
Um, you talk about, you know,the body's innate ability to
heal, you know?
And I'm sure with all thepatients that you've worked with
since you've begun this work,how did you come to believe in
this concept though, throughyour work with cancer patients?
Like, you you knew you had to dothis, but then once you started,
how did you know that thisconcept had this healing power
(09:02):
to heal these emotional traumasthat people were dealing with.
Dr. Katie Deming (09:06):
Yeah.
Well, you know, I didn't know,I, I didn't know when I left
what I was gonna do, and Iactually didn't, you know, I
thought, I'm like, do I, youknow, just become like, you
know, train in something else?
And I, and ultimately I was ledthat, no, you know, don't go do
(09:27):
any additional training.
Don't go indoctrinated intoanother system.
You know, you need to justexplore.
And so what I started doing wasstarted exploring what makes us
well.
You know, like, becauseeverything in western medicine
that I had been taught about wasdisease state.
So we learned pathophysiology inmedicine, which is the diseased
(09:48):
state of the body, and then youlearn how to use
pharmaceuticals, or in my case,radiation to fix those problems,
but from a very superficiallevel of just like basically
what is the physical problemwe're seeing and how can we use
something to make that go away,not actually looking for what is
the underlying cause of it.
(10:10):
And so I said, if I know so muchabout that.
What do I know about what makesthe body well?
Because actually, like, reallywhat I wanna do is help people
get well and stay well.
And so I started really lookinginto what makes us well.
And you know, um, healing isbringing wholeness back to the
(10:32):
body.
That is the definition ofhealing and wholeness comes when
we address all of the aspects ofa human being, right?
Because.
I'm healing humans.
You know, there are other peoplewho are healing animals, but in
a human being, it's physical,it's emotional, it's mental, and
it's spiritual, and you need allof that.
That is what healing is, isrestoring wholeness to the
(10:54):
being.
And as I started digging into,you know, all of these aspects,
the one part that really caughtmy attention was emotions and
healing, because I had beentaught nothing about that, but
yet, in my practice for a longtime I was the only female in my
practice and so I was like amagnet for anyone, woman who
(11:16):
didn't wanna see a malepractitioner or had a history of
trauma.
And I had a lot, a lot ofclients who had history of
trauma because I was, they feltsafe with a woman.
And so, I was curious about thatfrom before.
But then when I stepped out andI started looking at, the first
study that really caught myattention was the ACE study.
(11:37):
That's Adverse Childhood Eventstudy, and that's a longitudinal
study that took children andthey looked at the number of
adverse childhood events thatthey had in their childhood, and
then they followed them intoadulthood to see what their
health status was.
An adverse childhood event isdefined as any kind of trauma.
So it could be divorce ofparents, it could be a parent
(11:59):
with an addiction, it could be aparent who's incarcerated, could
be sexual abuse, could bephysical abuse, could be
neglect.
So there are a lot of differentthings that can fall in that
category.
But what this study found, andthis was a big study, thousands
of children over, you know,many, many years, and what they
found was the higher the ACEscore, the higher the incidence
(12:21):
of cancer, cardiovasculardisease, lung disease, diabetes,
addiction.
You know, and addiction youmight say, well, that makes
sense as like a coping.
But even if you took out theaddiction piece, these children
still had a very high risk ofdeveloping conditions that we
would normally say aregenetically based, right?
(12:42):
Like cancer, for example.
And so that caught my attention.
And then if you look at theradical remission data from
Kelly Turner, there are 10things.
You know, initially her list wasnine things that.
People who cure themselveswithout any conventional
treatment or withoutconventional treatment that you
would expect to cure theirillness.
They had 10 things in common.
And of course, these are notcausative, right?
(13:03):
We don't, there's just acorrelation between these, um,
things that they did and healingthemselves.
But two of them have to do withemotions.
One of'em is releasing pasttrauma, and the second is
cultivating positive emotions.
And so with those two thingstogether.
It start to make me really thinkabout the connection of emotions
(13:25):
and illness and then also withmy experience of having so many
people with trauma in mypractice that I knew there was
some connection there.
So that's kind, that's actuallywhat's started me down this path
of looking at emotions as partof the process of healing
cancer.
Ivelisse Page (13:43):
Yeah, I, that's so amazing to me.
You know, we so focus in ourworld, whether conventional or
even in integrative medicine onthe physical sides, right?
Whether it's doing your saunasor whether doing organic foods.
All those things are important,like Dr.
Turner shared.
But you mentioned something thatreally doesn't get talked a lot
(14:03):
about, which is our emotions andthose childhood traumas and how
important it is for us to,sometimes they're unconscious
and we don't even realize thatthey're there.
And so it's so important thatthat release comes, because I
think she said that when yourbody is caught in this fight or
flight stage, your body can'theal, which of course impacts,
(14:25):
you know, cancer patients.
So what have you found have beenthe biggest misconceptions about
emotional healing that youencounter in the work that you
do?
Dr. Katie Deming (14:34):
Well, number one, when I first started saying
this, people would get reallymad at me.
Like, I have these women who hadfollowed me, you know, um, on
social media when I waspracticing traditional Western
medicine.
And they would be like, nowyou're blaming me.
You're saying it's my fault.
And, you know, all this stuff.
And, and nothing could befurther from the truth, but I
(14:56):
found people get reallytriggered when you start talking
about emotions related tocancer, like somehow I'm saying
that it's someone's fault that,that their cancer may be related
to emotions, but we live in atraumatic world.
I mean, almost everyone has hadsome form of trauma.
If you look at the ACE list, Imean, I would be surprised if
(15:17):
everyone doesn't have at leastone of those.
And so, um, I find that peoplecan be triggered, but that I
also realize that those are notmy people.
Those are not the people thatI'm meant to help.
The ones that are meant to helpare like, I know something is
off here and that there's some,you know, connection between the
things that I've experienced andmy illness and are interested in
(15:40):
diving into that.
So I've kind of gotten a thickerskin and I'm just like, it's
okay.
You don't have to agree with me.
I'm just here to say that thisis also a contributor to
physical illness.
So that's the biggest thing is Ithink people don't wanna see it.
The second thing is that peoplethink that, oh, that means that
I need to go into therapy and Ineed to talk about this and we
(16:01):
need to like dig all this stuffup and, and actually that I
think is a big misconception andI don't recommend talk therapy.
I'm not saying there's not aplace for talk therapy, but when
you have someone who is sickwith cancer and you need to heal
emotional trauma and help thembecome more fluid with their
emotions.
You don't want to dig things upbecause that's actually going to
(16:24):
put them into a fight or flight,and you're basically just
picking the wound and making itworse when they're already
afraid and experiencing nowanother emotional trauma of the
illness, right, of beingdiagnosed with cancer.
And so I tend to use techniquesthat are addressing the
subconscious because emotionaltrauma is stored in our
subconscious.
(16:45):
And those techniques allow youto release the trauma without
having to go into it and lightenpeople.
So one of the techniques that'sbeen the most effective in my
practice is psych K, and that'sspelled P-S-Y-C-H, and then the
letter K.
And that for me, there are othertechniques that also address the
(17:06):
subconscious that are, um,techniques.
So emotion code is another onethat release past trauma
through, um, the subconsciousand then like, there's EMDR and
um, tapping.
Those are also ways to helpaddress that.
But what I love about PSYCH-K isthat someone can do one session
(17:31):
and feel different and lighter.
Like I don't do it myself.
So my practice is so busy andI'm, I'm not just addressing the
emotional, I'm really looking atthe whole, you know, looking at
their nutrition and stuff.
Because actually you can't dothe emotional healing if
someone's not eating the rightfood and grounded and really,
you know, has good nutritionalstatus.
But, um, because I'm doing allof the pieces, I refer out for
(17:54):
PSYCH K or actually now I have amaster PSYCH K facillitator who
teaches PSYCH K workshops to mypeople so that they can have the
skills themselves so they canfish themselves and help
themselves.
But anyway, what I love aboutPSYCH K is that it's, um, it
people will do one session andthen they feel lighter.
Ivelisse Page (18:15):
So it, for those of us who don't know who, what
PSYCH K is, or M-D-R-E-M-D-R ortapping, can you just share
really briefly what thosetechniques are so that people
who aren't, haven't heard thosebefore can kind of understand
what you mean by them?
Dr. Katie Deming (18:30):
Sure.
So, um, a Emotion Code is one,um, type of subconscious work
where they use magnets to help.
Basically they access the, um,you do it with a practitioner
who's trained in this, and it'sbasically the subconscious
speaks in a binary code.
Like either it's a yes or it's ano, and they look for places in
(18:52):
the history of where thereappears to be something that
needs to be released.
And then they use magnets overthe meridian that, um, releases
that.
So that's one technique.
Um.
EMDR.
I'm not actually like I, I, I'venever used it in my practice,
but it's eye, it's related toeye movements and it's a type of
therapy that can also help with,um, releasing trauma and, and
(19:15):
getting at it in a way where itcan be challenging just through
talk therapy.
And then tapping.
So EFT Tapping is emotionalfreedom technique, and basically
it's tapping on acupressurepoints to help change the
physiology.
So when you're in a state ofstress, it can calm your
physiology and activate thevagus nerve so you feel more
(19:38):
calm.
So E or tapping is less aboutreleasing and more about coping
in the moment, like it can bevery helpful with coping with
the fear or the stress that'scome up with things.
Um, and then PSYCH K is, PSYCH Kis short for psychological
kinesis, the K is for Kinesis,and k Kinesis just means body
(20:01):
like the movement of the body.
And the idea is that our brains,when we go into emotions, we
tend to either go into our rightbrain or we tend to go into our
left brain and we do both ofthese, but we like, you know, a
feminine response to emotion isto go into the right brain.
And then it feels like theemotions are gonna get so big,
(20:23):
they're gonna overwhelm me.
Right?
And that can feel kind of, uh,hard.
You don't wanna feel thefeelings because it feels like
it's gonna just swallow you up.
And then the other approach is amore masculine approach, which
is the left side of the brain,which is we just rationalize and
we shut it off and just cut itoff at its knees.
And what happens is that whenyou experience emotions, when
(20:45):
you have both sides of the brainconnected and activated, you
actually don't do either ofthose things.
And you realize that, um,emotions are just a wave.
So it's gonna come up.
It's gonna crest and then it'sgonna come down.
And so you use certainpositionings of the body to
activate the corpus callosum,which is the part of the brain
(21:06):
that connects the twohemispheres.
And then in that position, theydo emotional processing.
So processing, fear, anger,jealousy, guilt, shame, all of
those things.
And actually it allows you torealize that it's safe to
experience your emotions andthat you can become fluid with
(21:28):
them.
So that is like really, reallyvaluable, not only for past
trauma, but also forexperiencing a cancer diagnosis.
And then the other thing that itdoes is that you can release
past trauma through doing thiswhole brain positioning as well.
So, PSYCH K it does three thingsreally.
It helps process emotionaltrauma and release it.
(21:48):
It helps you become fluid inprocessing your emotions as they
happen, which is superimportant.
That's why I like to teachpeople the skills so that they
have this, they can use it everyday.
And then the third piece is yourprogramming the subconscious for
what you want.
Because most of us have beenprogrammed into our
subconscious, subconscious isprogrammed between ages zero and
eight, and then by traumaticevents.
(22:11):
Even all of our parents arewellbeing, well-meaning, and I'm
a parent and I'm well-meaning,and I'm sure I've programmed my
children with some things thatare not helpful.
So all of us have things in oursubconscious that maybe are not
the most helpful for what wewant to create in our lives,
whether that's health or love orhealthy relationships or
whatever.
And so PSYCH K is a verypowerful way that you can
(22:32):
reprogram the subconscious withthe beliefs that you want, that
healing is possible, that youknow the relationships that you
want, all of that stuff you canprogram in.
So I love it because itaddresses all three of those
things which are essential forhealing.
Ivelisse Page (22:49):
Yeah, I, I, I agree that it's so important and
I think sometimes people don'twant to address the emotions
like you shared, but doing it ingentle ways like that, I think
makes it, um, easier for, for apatient to be able to go through
that process without itburdening them too much.
But, you know, one term I justlearned this week, which I feel
(23:11):
is also very powerful, is thatonce you have gone through this
healing, this emotional healing,um, you, you're considered a, a,
um, a wounded healer, right?
So you've healed those woundsthat were so critical in your
upbringing or from your pastthat you can walk in strength.
Right?
That's the hope in it.
(23:31):
It's not so that you stay stuck,it's so that you move ahead with
peace and joy and love and hope.
So being a wounded healer,that's nothing to be shameful
about or upset about.
And like you said, being themost well-intentioned parents,
there is gonna be some woundingin some way, but to know that
there are these beautifulpractices that can help us to
(23:54):
heal is really exciting to hearhow far this, um, side of care
has gone.
I know for me, in my ownpersonal journey with cancer
that forgiveness, you know, wasa, played a huge role in, in my
life.
And, I feel like it's aconscious choice to let go and
to move forward.
(24:14):
It gave me such freedom and itwasn't necessarily
reconciliation, right?
It doesn't mean forgetting thepain or approving someone's
behavior.
Um, but it just meant suchfreedom once you can let go and
move forward.
Do you agree?
What role do you feelforgiveness plays in emotional
healing.
And what are some ways that youteach people to begin the
(24:37):
journey of letting that go?
Dr. Katie Deming (24:39):
Well, forgiveness is all for you, not
for the person who did anythingto you.
Because regardless of whathappened, whether it's right or
wrong, um, when you are stillholding on to something, you're
the one who suffers becauseemotions hold frequency, right?
(25:01):
So this comes to David Hawkinswork from Power versus Force is
a great book.
If people are not familiar withthat, that talks about this, the
map of consciousness and thatemotions have frequency in the
low um vibration frequencieslike, emotions like fear, shame,
anger.
All of those are where illnessis created in the body and in
(25:23):
the higher frequency, emotionslike love and peace and joy,
that's where healing occurs.
And so when we hold on tosomething because someone has
done something to us, itbasically is contributing to our
illness.
And so what's interesting in mypractice is I, I don't talk
(25:46):
about forgiveness as muchbecause when you do these
processes, people become veryneutral about what's happened to
them.
And then you don't have to lookat it as, because sometimes
people can be triggered by thisconcept of forgiveness, and I
find that if we just help themto start process and be
(26:08):
processing and becoming neutralabout the events, then that's
all that's needed.
And then they can decide whatthey wanna do about addressing
that relationship or whatever,but they've taken that burden
off their back.
And I think of emotional traumaor, you know, and that could be
things that are perpetrated uponsomeone as rocks in your
(26:29):
backpack, you've been carryingthis backpack for your whole
life, you don't even realizewhat's in there because you've
just been carrying it aroundevery single day.
And trauma is like that.
And so what I want people to dois just start taking the rocks
out.
Like let's just get the rocksout so you feel lighter.
And then that's where thehealing happens.
And so even though I don't talkabout forgiveness in this way,
(26:53):
my clients get there becausethey become more neutral about
the events that have happened tothem.
And then the other thing is, andyou know, Colin Tipping talked
about this radical forgiveness.
I'm not sure if you're familiarwith his work, he's now passed,
but he talks about in radicalforgiveness is this concept of
that everything happens for areason.
(27:14):
Everything is happening for ourhigher good, whether that's from
God or our higher self, thatit's been put in our path to
trigger something that is forour growth.
And he says that when people areable to recognize that it makes
forgiveness so much easierbecause you're really perceiving
(27:35):
through things through a higherlens.
You know, you're looking atthings from a higher level, so.
Ivelisse Page (27:43):
Yeah, that's, that's beautiful.
I just recently, and I think, Iwould love for you to share
about this because I thinksometimes when we do emotional
work, we think, okay, check, Icheck that off.
I forgave that person.
I dealt with my past and, um,and then it bubbles up again.
And I explain to those who arelistening, the process of
(28:07):
healing and that it's notlinear, right?
That it comes in waves like youwere talking about, and that
grieving is a process.
So how do you share that withpatients so that they don't
become, um, hard on themselves,right?
That they're not healing in, inthe way that they thought they
were going to, or it comes back,uh, that emotion comes back.
(28:29):
So how do you work with patientsso they don't feel badly about
that?
Dr. Katie Deming (28:33):
Yeah.
Well, number one is that we areemotional beings, so we are
always gonna have emotions.
And recognizing that it's not aproblem when emotion comes up
that maybe you thought that youdealt with, um, because it's
just information.
It's like, oh, there it is, youknow?
There it is.
And now it gives you a chance tolike be compassionate with
(28:55):
yourself, not beat yourself up,that this has come up again.
Actually, one of the things thatI do in my practice that's been
like.
So profound on a physical leveland also emotional, but also
spiritual is fasting.
So I do prolonged water fastingfor cancer and I have a group
who, they just finished 30 daywater fast.
(29:15):
And one of the women, you know,through this, fear, she was
crippled by fear.
I've been working with her for ayear and she's been doing deep
emotional work and fear has beenher biggest thing.
And when she came into the fast,it was still like had such a
grip on her, but through thefast I.
She had a lot of emotionalclearing that happens because as
(29:37):
you start to eliminate food,then, then the emotional stuff
comes up and you have thisbeautiful emotional detoxing
that happens.
And so she was like, the fearhad gone away and then she just,
um, finished the fast andstarted refeeding.
And yesterday she was on one ofthe calls and she said, you
know, I woke up this morning andI was afraid.
(29:59):
And I was so mad at myself,like, how could I go back into
the fear, like after I just dida 30 day water fast?
And I'm like, so I, I felt likeit was done.
And what I said to her is, Isaid, it's never done.
Like until we take our lastbreath, we're always going to
have those things that are ourpatterns that come up.
And I said, it's just giving youinformation and showing you.
(30:23):
And I'm still here.
There's still stuff to work on.
And just to be so proud ofyourself for all the work that
you've done, and to recognize itlike you recognized it in the
moment you're like, oh, okay,I'm back in the fear.
And don't pull up the whip andstart, you know, hitting
yourself and beating yourself upfor it.
Just be curious.
(30:44):
It's like, okay, what is thisshowing me now?
I've worked through so manylevels of this, like what's this
next level of fear that'sshowing me?
And I think when we show up withcuriosity and compassion for
ourselves in the healingprocess, that's where it feels
easier.
This work is not easy.
You know, I say healing's,simple, but it's not easy.
(31:06):
But it feels easier when we canbe gentle and kind with
ourselves and, and also justthinking about it like an onion.
You're like an onion and you'vejust got endless layers and
you're gonna do, you know,remove one, but then there's
gonna be something else because.
We are here to learn like thislifetime is to learn lessons and
to evolve, and that if we didn'thave lessons coming up, we
(31:30):
wouldn't be growing andevolving.
So I am always like, thank youfor showing me my next level of
how I can grow even more.
Ivelisse Page (31:39):
Yeah, I think that's such a powerful
statement.
We are like layers of an onionand as a, as a Christian, I seek
empathy from the Lord because heis my vision of empathy, right?
And how I should be empatheticas he is empathetic towards me.
And I think that in our liveswe're just so busy.
(32:01):
And just like you were sharingabout fasting and um, holding
something back from us so thingscan be revealed.
I also feel like things likestillness, solitude and silence
can also help us to be hearingthose things that we, we don't
normally listen to with thenoise of the world.
And then in, in my life, that'swhen the Lord speaks to me and
(32:23):
shares things that I need togrow in or that I need to work
on and, um, and to not feelalone.
So, you know, I really love allthat you're doing, Katie.
The work you're doing is just someaningful.
You are helping so many peoplein this vital work of emotional
healing and I'm just so gratefulthat there are people like you
(32:44):
out there that are doing this.
And, um, I just really wannathank you.
We're gonna put your informationin the notes of this podcast so
that people can connect with youif they'd like to learn more or
if they would like to learn fromyou.
And so in closing, is thereanything else that you would
like to share that I didn't geta chance to ask you?
Dr. Katie Deming (33:05):
Well, I think that one of the things that I is
important to know is thathealing is always possible.
Like it doesn't matter thestage.
It doesn't matter how deep yourtrauma, it doesn't matter what
you've been through.
Healing is always, alwaysavailable and possible, and I
(33:26):
really truly believe that andI've seen it.
So I think that's something thatI would like people to know.
Ivelisse Page (33:32):
Oh, that's beautiful.
Thank you so much for joiningus.
I know you're super busy and,uh, I know that everyone is
gonna gain such valuable insightfrom this podcast, from you
sharing.
So thank you for taking the timetoday,
Dr. Katie Deming (33:45):
Ivelisse.
Thank you so much for having me.
It was my pleasure.
I.
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Ivelisse Page (34:32):
If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to
help support our podcast, pleasesubscribe and share it with
others.
Be sure to visit believebig.orgto access to show notes and
discover our bonus content.
Thanks again and keep BelievingBig!
Hi, I'm Ivelisse Page and thanks for listening to
the Believe Big podcast, theshow where we take deep dive
into your healing with healthexperts, integrative
practitioners, biblical faithleaders, and cancer thrivers
from around the globe.
(00:35):
\Welcome to today's episode onthe Believe Big podcast.
My name is Ivelisse Page andit's an honor to spend this time
with you.
Today, we welcome to the podcastDr.
Katie Deming to talk abouthealing from emotional trauma.
Dr.
Katie is a former radiationoncologist and healthcare
leader, inventor and TEDxspeaker, who is transcending the
(00:59):
boundaries of conventional andintegrative medicine to create a
new paradigm of cancerprevention treatment.
And post-treatment healing.
Today we are gonna learn alittle bit about Dr.
Katie's personal story, whichincludes how a shared death
experience transformed herperspective and led her to leave
(01:21):
Western medicine at the heightof her thriving career as a
radiation oncologist and healthleader at one of the largest
healthcare organizations.
Dr.
Katie's current method center onhelping those with cancer to
detoxify and nourish their fullphysical, mental, and emotional
and spiritual selves so they canactivate their body's innate
(01:43):
ability to heal.
Welcome to the show, Dr.
Deming.
Dr. Katie Deming (01:47):
Thank you so much.
It's my pleasure to be here.
Ivelisse Page (01:50):
We always like to start the podcast with our guest
favorite health tip.
Do you have one that you couldshare with us?
Dr. Katie Deming (01:57):
My favorite health tip would be, I think,
detoxification.
I think in today's world doingsauna.
So infrared sauna is probablylike my favorite detox, um, tip
I would say as someone like it'smy mentor often says it's like a
refrigerator in 2025.
(02:19):
Everyone should have access tousing a sauna and, I use mine
every day.
It feels so good, but it's alsoso important for detoxifying our
bodies.
Ivelisse Page (02:29):
Yes.
I I love mine too.
I, I have a Sunlighten in oneand I know people ask, so what
kind do you have?
Dr. Katie Deming (02:36):
I have a Health Mate Enrich 2.
Ivelisse Page (02:39):
Okay.
Okay.
Good to know.
Um, so what inspired yourtransition from a conventional
radiation oncologist?
Dr. Katie Deming (02:47):
Sure.
So I practiced radiationoncology for 20 years, also
served as a healthcare leader,and I was, you know, mid-career,
really kind of just doing mything.
And in 2019 I started to havethis feeling inside that
something wasn't right.
(03:08):
And I also just before I startedto really sense that like
something wasn't right, in 2018,I was at a meditation retreat
and I heard the parable of theriver and the story goes
something like this.
There's a village perched alongthe side of a river, and one day
the villagers noticed a body,someone drowning in the river.
(03:30):
So they sent out someone to savethem, pulled them to safety, and
then the next day they noticedtwo people drowning in the
river.
So they sent two villagers outto save the people.
And then the next day, four andeight and 16, and it kept
doubling every day.
So the villagers organizedthemselves and created these
very elaborate rescue systems,and they became very good at
(03:52):
rescuing people off of theriver.
And the village elders praisedthe villagers for such good work
that they were doing of rescuingall of these people.
When I heard this parable, Ijust looked at my friend and
colleague.
I happen to be at this eventwith a GYN oncologist, who's one
(04:12):
of my best friends, and I saidto her, I said, this is Western
Oncology.
This is us.
Like we are just glorifiedrescue workers on this river and
pulling people out and what theheck is going on upstream?
We're seeing younger and youngerwomen in our practices and
people are getting sicker andsicker, and I have no idea
what's getting them here.
Like we're, and then we'reputting'em on dry land, but we
(04:35):
don't really know what happenedin the first place.
And so then I'm not sure thatthey're not gonna fall back in
the river.
And so that had happened I thinkin like 2018.
I heard that story and I waslike.
Wow.
Like nobody's asking thequestion of what is wrong?
Like why are so many more peoplegetting sick and why are younger
and younger people gettingcancer?
And then in 2019, I started tohave this feeling like I wasn't
(04:56):
supposed to be practicingradiation oncology, which made
no sense because I had traineduntil I was 32 years old and
spent hundreds of thousands ofdollars to become a radiation
oncologist and actually lovedwhat I did.
Like I love taking care ofpatients.
I've cared for over 5,000 peoplein, in as a radiation
oncologist, mostly women.
(05:17):
I specialize in breast andgynecologic cancer, but.
Anyway, I was getting thismessage like, you're not
supposed to be a radiationoncologist.
And I was telling my husband, myhusband was like, well, maybe
something's wrong with youbecause if you look at your
life, you're good at what youdo.
You do meaningful work.
You care for people with cancer.
You know, it's like when peoplesay, that's meaningful work, you
(05:38):
know, and he's like, you're, youknow, you're good at it.
Your colleagues love you.
Your patients love you.
You make a good living.
You have everything that youcould want.
Maybe there's something wrongwith you.
If you are not happy with all ofthat, and now I know that's
obviously not, that's not whatwas going on, but it, I
internalized that for a littlebit and I was like, oh, maybe
(05:59):
there's something wrong with me.
Maybe I'm never gonna be happyand maybe I need to address
that, about why am I not happy?
But then in 2020.
I had something called a shareddeath experience, and this is
very similar to a near-deathexperience, but it can happen to
healthcare professionals who areat the scene where someone else
(06:20):
dies and the healthcareprofessional or the person who
is at the scene can have ametaphysical experience, much
like a near death experience,but without having their heart
stop and you know, really havingthat going through some kind of
medical crisis, and thathappened to me in the fall of
2020 and, I saw, you know, Ifelt the love and the light and
(06:44):
the, you know, just overwhelmingbeauty of what is outside this
reality.
But when I came back, I knew Ihad to leave.
I was like, okay, no longer isthis just like a niggling
feeling.
This is like, I know that I needto leave.
And then I also know thatbecause I've spent so much time
around death, like I've caredfor so many patients who have
(07:07):
died, 40% of my practice waspalliative.
So I've spent a lot of time withpeople who are facing the end of
their life, and I know that thebiggest regret that people have
is that I wasn't true to myself,that I didn't live a life that
was authentic to me.
I did what everyone else toldme, so I knew that if I didn't
follow this, that I would regretit at the end of my life.
(07:29):
And I wasn't willing to do thatregardless of whether my husband
was on board or anyone else.
And it did end up unraveling mylife.
I ended up getting a divorceand, you know, having to sell
everything to move through that.
But, um, it was just reallyclear that needed to happen.
That was the, you know, whatwhat I was meant to do, even
though it wasn't clear, youknow, what I was gonna move
(07:51):
into, it was clear what I, Ishouldn't be doing.
Ivelisse Page (07:54):
Hmm.
What a beautiful story and I, Ithink it just adds to when we
take those moments of quiet likeyou were at a meditation retreat
and how God spoke to you in thatway, through that parable.
I think so many times we're sobusy in our lives and we're
running from one thing to thenext that we don't take time to
listen and to, to look withinand to hear and to open our
(08:17):
hearts to what a difference inour life can be or a change that
could be coming to the surface.
And so what a brave thing, youknow, that you did in stepping
outside of what you've alwaysknown, to do something that was
completely different, but youknow, that you were called to
do.
So.
That's just an amazing story.
(08:37):
Um, you talk about, you know,the body's innate ability to
heal, you know?
And I'm sure with all thepatients that you've worked with
since you've begun this work,how did you come to believe in
this concept though, throughyour work with cancer patients?
Like, you you knew you had to dothis, but then once you started,
how did you know that thisconcept had this healing power
(09:02):
to heal these emotional traumasthat people were dealing with.
Dr. Katie Deming (09:06):
Yeah.
Well, you know, I didn't know,I, I didn't know when I left
what I was gonna do, and Iactually didn't, you know, I
thought, I'm like, do I, youknow, just become like, you
know, train in something else?
And I, and ultimately I was ledthat, no, you know, don't go do
(09:27):
any additional training.
Don't go indoctrinated intoanother system.
You know, you need to justexplore.
And so what I started doing wasstarted exploring what makes us
well.
You know, like, becauseeverything in western medicine
that I had been taught about wasdisease state.
So we learned pathophysiology inmedicine, which is the diseased
(09:48):
state of the body, and then youlearn how to use
pharmaceuticals, or in my case,radiation to fix those problems,
but from a very superficiallevel of just like basically
what is the physical problemwe're seeing and how can we use
something to make that go away,not actually looking for what is
the underlying cause of it.
(10:10):
And so I said, if I know so muchabout that.
What do I know about what makesthe body well?
Because actually, like, reallywhat I wanna do is help people
get well and stay well.
And so I started really lookinginto what makes us well.
And you know, um, healing isbringing wholeness back to the
(10:32):
body.
That is the definition ofhealing and wholeness comes when
we address all of the aspects ofa human being, right?
Because.
I'm healing humans.
You know, there are other peoplewho are healing animals, but in
a human being, it's physical,it's emotional, it's mental, and
it's spiritual, and you need allof that.
That is what healing is, isrestoring wholeness to the
(10:54):
being.
And as I started digging into,you know, all of these aspects,
the one part that really caughtmy attention was emotions and
healing, because I had beentaught nothing about that, but
yet, in my practice for a longtime I was the only female in my
practice and so I was like amagnet for anyone, woman who
(11:16):
didn't wanna see a malepractitioner or had a history of
trauma.
And I had a lot, a lot ofclients who had history of
trauma because I was, they feltsafe with a woman.
And so, I was curious about thatfrom before.
But then when I stepped out andI started looking at, the first
study that really caught myattention was the ACE study.
(11:37):
That's Adverse Childhood Eventstudy, and that's a longitudinal
study that took children andthey looked at the number of
adverse childhood events thatthey had in their childhood, and
then they followed them intoadulthood to see what their
health status was.
An adverse childhood event isdefined as any kind of trauma.
So it could be divorce ofparents, it could be a parent
(11:59):
with an addiction, it could be aparent who's incarcerated, could
be sexual abuse, could bephysical abuse, could be
neglect.
So there are a lot of differentthings that can fall in that
category.
But what this study found, andthis was a big study, thousands
of children over, you know,many, many years, and what they
found was the higher the ACEscore, the higher the incidence
(12:21):
of cancer, cardiovasculardisease, lung disease, diabetes,
addiction.
You know, and addiction youmight say, well, that makes
sense as like a coping.
But even if you took out theaddiction piece, these children
still had a very high risk ofdeveloping conditions that we
would normally say aregenetically based, right?
(12:42):
Like cancer, for example.
And so that caught my attention.
And then if you look at theradical remission data from
Kelly Turner, there are 10things.
You know, initially her list wasnine things that.
People who cure themselveswithout any conventional
treatment or withoutconventional treatment that you
would expect to cure theirillness.
They had 10 things in common.
And of course, these are notcausative, right?
(13:03):
We don't, there's just acorrelation between these, um,
things that they did and healingthemselves.
But two of them have to do withemotions.
One of'em is releasing pasttrauma, and the second is
cultivating positive emotions.
And so with those two thingstogether.
It start to make me really thinkabout the connection of emotions
(13:25):
and illness and then also withmy experience of having so many
people with trauma in mypractice that I knew there was
some connection there.
So that's kind, that's actuallywhat's started me down this path
of looking at emotions as partof the process of healing
cancer.
Ivelisse Page (13:43):
Yeah, I, that's so amazing to me.
You know, we so focus in ourworld, whether conventional or
even in integrative medicine onthe physical sides, right?
Whether it's doing your saunasor whether doing organic foods.
All those things are important,like Dr.
Turner shared.
But you mentioned something thatreally doesn't get talked a lot
(14:03):
about, which is our emotions andthose childhood traumas and how
important it is for us to,sometimes they're unconscious
and we don't even realize thatthey're there.
And so it's so important thatthat release comes, because I
think she said that when yourbody is caught in this fight or
flight stage, your body can'theal, which of course impacts,
(14:25):
you know, cancer patients.
So what have you found have beenthe biggest misconceptions about
emotional healing that youencounter in the work that you
do?
Dr. Katie Deming (14:34):
Well, number one, when I first started saying
this, people would get reallymad at me.
Like, I have these women who hadfollowed me, you know, um, on
social media when I waspracticing traditional Western
medicine.
And they would be like, nowyou're blaming me.
You're saying it's my fault.
And, you know, all this stuff.
And, and nothing could befurther from the truth, but I
(14:56):
found people get reallytriggered when you start talking
about emotions related tocancer, like somehow I'm saying
that it's someone's fault that,that their cancer may be related
to emotions, but we live in atraumatic world.
I mean, almost everyone has hadsome form of trauma.
If you look at the ACE list, Imean, I would be surprised if
(15:17):
everyone doesn't have at leastone of those.
And so, um, I find that peoplecan be triggered, but that I
also realize that those are notmy people.
Those are not the people thatI'm meant to help.
The ones that are meant to helpare like, I know something is
off here and that there's some,you know, connection between the
things that I've experienced andmy illness and are interested in
(15:40):
diving into that.
So I've kind of gotten a thickerskin and I'm just like, it's
okay.
You don't have to agree with me.
I'm just here to say that thisis also a contributor to
physical illness.
So that's the biggest thing is Ithink people don't wanna see it.
The second thing is that peoplethink that, oh, that means that
I need to go into therapy and Ineed to talk about this and we
(16:01):
need to like dig all this stuffup and, and actually that I
think is a big misconception andI don't recommend talk therapy.
I'm not saying there's not aplace for talk therapy, but when
you have someone who is sickwith cancer and you need to heal
emotional trauma and help thembecome more fluid with their
emotions.
You don't want to dig things upbecause that's actually going to
(16:24):
put them into a fight or flight,and you're basically just
picking the wound and making itworse when they're already
afraid and experiencing nowanother emotional trauma of the
illness, right, of beingdiagnosed with cancer.
And so I tend to use techniquesthat are addressing the
subconscious because emotionaltrauma is stored in our
subconscious.
(16:45):
And those techniques allow youto release the trauma without
having to go into it and lightenpeople.
So one of the techniques that'sbeen the most effective in my
practice is psych K, and that'sspelled P-S-Y-C-H, and then the
letter K.
And that for me, there are othertechniques that also address the
(17:06):
subconscious that are, um,techniques.
So emotion code is another onethat release past trauma
through, um, the subconsciousand then like, there's EMDR and
um, tapping.
Those are also ways to helpaddress that.
But what I love about PSYCH-K isthat someone can do one session
(17:31):
and feel different and lighter.
Like I don't do it myself.
So my practice is so busy andI'm, I'm not just addressing the
emotional, I'm really looking atthe whole, you know, looking at
their nutrition and stuff.
Because actually you can't dothe emotional healing if
someone's not eating the rightfood and grounded and really,
you know, has good nutritionalstatus.
But, um, because I'm doing allof the pieces, I refer out for
(17:54):
PSYCH K or actually now I have amaster PSYCH K facillitator who
teaches PSYCH K workshops to mypeople so that they can have the
skills themselves so they canfish themselves and help
themselves.
But anyway, what I love aboutPSYCH K is that it's, um, it
people will do one session andthen they feel lighter.
Ivelisse Page (18:15):
So it, for those of us who don't know who, what
PSYCH K is, or M-D-R-E-M-D-R ortapping, can you just share
really briefly what thosetechniques are so that people
who aren't, haven't heard thosebefore can kind of understand
what you mean by them?
Dr. Katie Deming (18:30):
Sure.
So, um, a Emotion Code is one,um, type of subconscious work
where they use magnets to help.
Basically they access the, um,you do it with a practitioner
who's trained in this, and it'sbasically the subconscious
speaks in a binary code.
Like either it's a yes or it's ano, and they look for places in
(18:52):
the history of where thereappears to be something that
needs to be released.
And then they use magnets overthe meridian that, um, releases
that.
So that's one technique.
Um.
EMDR.
I'm not actually like I, I, I'venever used it in my practice,
but it's eye, it's related toeye movements and it's a type of
therapy that can also help with,um, releasing trauma and, and
(19:15):
getting at it in a way where itcan be challenging just through
talk therapy.
And then tapping.
So EFT Tapping is emotionalfreedom technique, and basically
it's tapping on acupressurepoints to help change the
physiology.
So when you're in a state ofstress, it can calm your
physiology and activate thevagus nerve so you feel more
(19:38):
calm.
So E or tapping is less aboutreleasing and more about coping
in the moment, like it can bevery helpful with coping with
the fear or the stress that'scome up with things.
Um, and then PSYCH K is, PSYCH Kis short for psychological
kinesis, the K is for Kinesis,and k Kinesis just means body
(20:01):
like the movement of the body.
And the idea is that our brains,when we go into emotions, we
tend to either go into our rightbrain or we tend to go into our
left brain and we do both ofthese, but we like, you know, a
feminine response to emotion isto go into the right brain.
And then it feels like theemotions are gonna get so big,
(20:23):
they're gonna overwhelm me.
Right?
And that can feel kind of, uh,hard.
You don't wanna feel thefeelings because it feels like
it's gonna just swallow you up.
And then the other approach is amore masculine approach, which
is the left side of the brain,which is we just rationalize and
we shut it off and just cut itoff at its knees.
And what happens is that whenyou experience emotions, when
(20:45):
you have both sides of the brainconnected and activated, you
actually don't do either ofthose things.
And you realize that, um,emotions are just a wave.
So it's gonna come up.
It's gonna crest and then it'sgonna come down.
And so you use certainpositionings of the body to
activate the corpus callosum,which is the part of the brain
(21:06):
that connects the twohemispheres.
And then in that position, theydo emotional processing.
So processing, fear, anger,jealousy, guilt, shame, all of
those things.
And actually it allows you torealize that it's safe to
experience your emotions andthat you can become fluid with
(21:28):
them.
So that is like really, reallyvaluable, not only for past
trauma, but also forexperiencing a cancer diagnosis.
And then the other thing that itdoes is that you can release
past trauma through doing thiswhole brain positioning as well.
So, PSYCH K it does three thingsreally.
It helps process emotionaltrauma and release it.
(21:48):
It helps you become fluid inprocessing your emotions as they
happen, which is superimportant.
That's why I like to teachpeople the skills so that they
have this, they can use it everyday.
And then the third piece is yourprogramming the subconscious for
what you want.
Because most of us have beenprogrammed into our
subconscious, subconscious isprogrammed between ages zero and
eight, and then by traumaticevents.
(22:11):
Even all of our parents arewellbeing, well-meaning, and I'm
a parent and I'm well-meaning,and I'm sure I've programmed my
children with some things thatare not helpful.
So all of us have things in oursubconscious that maybe are not
the most helpful for what wewant to create in our lives,
whether that's health or love orhealthy relationships or
whatever.
And so PSYCH K is a verypowerful way that you can
(22:32):
reprogram the subconscious withthe beliefs that you want, that
healing is possible, that youknow the relationships that you
want, all of that stuff you canprogram in.
So I love it because itaddresses all three of those
things which are essential forhealing.
Ivelisse Page (22:49):
Yeah, I, I, I agree that it's so important and
I think sometimes people don'twant to address the emotions
like you shared, but doing it ingentle ways like that, I think
makes it, um, easier for, for apatient to be able to go through
that process without itburdening them too much.
But, you know, one term I justlearned this week, which I feel
(23:11):
is also very powerful, is thatonce you have gone through this
healing, this emotional healing,um, you, you're considered a, a,
um, a wounded healer, right?
So you've healed those woundsthat were so critical in your
upbringing or from your pastthat you can walk in strength.
Right?
That's the hope in it.
(23:31):
It's not so that you stay stuck,it's so that you move ahead with
peace and joy and love and hope.
So being a wounded healer,that's nothing to be shameful
about or upset about.
And like you said, being themost well-intentioned parents,
there is gonna be some woundingin some way, but to know that
there are these beautifulpractices that can help us to
(23:54):
heal is really exciting to hearhow far this, um, side of care
has gone.
I know for me, in my ownpersonal journey with cancer
that forgiveness, you know, wasa, played a huge role in, in my
life.
And, I feel like it's aconscious choice to let go and
to move forward.
(24:14):
It gave me such freedom and itwasn't necessarily
reconciliation, right?
It doesn't mean forgetting thepain or approving someone's
behavior.
Um, but it just meant suchfreedom once you can let go and
move forward.
Do you agree?
What role do you feelforgiveness plays in emotional
healing.
And what are some ways that youteach people to begin the
(24:37):
journey of letting that go?
Dr. Katie Deming (24:39):
Well, forgiveness is all for you, not
for the person who did anythingto you.
Because regardless of whathappened, whether it's right or
wrong, um, when you are stillholding on to something, you're
the one who suffers becauseemotions hold frequency, right?
(25:01):
So this comes to David Hawkinswork from Power versus Force is
a great book.
If people are not familiar withthat, that talks about this, the
map of consciousness and thatemotions have frequency in the
low um vibration frequencieslike, emotions like fear, shame,
anger.
All of those are where illnessis created in the body and in
(25:23):
the higher frequency, emotionslike love and peace and joy,
that's where healing occurs.
And so when we hold on tosomething because someone has
done something to us, itbasically is contributing to our
illness.
And so what's interesting in mypractice is I, I don't talk
(25:46):
about forgiveness as muchbecause when you do these
processes, people become veryneutral about what's happened to
them.
And then you don't have to lookat it as, because sometimes
people can be triggered by thisconcept of forgiveness, and I
find that if we just help themto start process and be
(26:08):
processing and becoming neutralabout the events, then that's
all that's needed.
And then they can decide whatthey wanna do about addressing
that relationship or whatever,but they've taken that burden
off their back.
And I think of emotional traumaor, you know, and that could be
things that are perpetrated uponsomeone as rocks in your
(26:29):
backpack, you've been carryingthis backpack for your whole
life, you don't even realizewhat's in there because you've
just been carrying it aroundevery single day.
And trauma is like that.
And so what I want people to dois just start taking the rocks
out.
Like let's just get the rocksout so you feel lighter.
And then that's where thehealing happens.
And so even though I don't talkabout forgiveness in this way,
(26:53):
my clients get there becausethey become more neutral about
the events that have happened tothem.
And then the other thing is, andyou know, Colin Tipping talked
about this radical forgiveness.
I'm not sure if you're familiarwith his work, he's now passed,
but he talks about in radicalforgiveness is this concept of
that everything happens for areason.
(27:14):
Everything is happening for ourhigher good, whether that's from
God or our higher self, thatit's been put in our path to
trigger something that is forour growth.
And he says that when people areable to recognize that it makes
forgiveness so much easierbecause you're really perceiving
(27:35):
through things through a higherlens.
You know, you're looking atthings from a higher level, so.
Ivelisse Page (27:43):
Yeah, that's, that's beautiful.
I just recently, and I think, Iwould love for you to share
about this because I thinksometimes when we do emotional
work, we think, okay, check, Icheck that off.
I forgave that person.
I dealt with my past and, um,and then it bubbles up again.
And I explain to those who arelistening, the process of
(28:07):
healing and that it's notlinear, right?
That it comes in waves like youwere talking about, and that
grieving is a process.
So how do you share that withpatients so that they don't
become, um, hard on themselves,right?
That they're not healing in, inthe way that they thought they
were going to, or it comes back,uh, that emotion comes back.
(28:29):
So how do you work with patientsso they don't feel badly about
that?
Dr. Katie Deming (28:33):
Yeah.
Well, number one is that we areemotional beings, so we are
always gonna have emotions.
And recognizing that it's not aproblem when emotion comes up
that maybe you thought that youdealt with, um, because it's
just information.
It's like, oh, there it is, youknow?
There it is.
And now it gives you a chance tolike be compassionate with
(28:55):
yourself, not beat yourself up,that this has come up again.
Actually, one of the things thatI do in my practice that's been
like.
So profound on a physical leveland also emotional, but also
spiritual is fasting.
So I do prolonged water fastingfor cancer and I have a group
who, they just finished 30 daywater fast.
(29:15):
And one of the women, you know,through this, fear, she was
crippled by fear.
I've been working with her for ayear and she's been doing deep
emotional work and fear has beenher biggest thing.
And when she came into the fast,it was still like had such a
grip on her, but through thefast I.
She had a lot of emotionalclearing that happens because as
(29:37):
you start to eliminate food,then, then the emotional stuff
comes up and you have thisbeautiful emotional detoxing
that happens.
And so she was like, the fearhad gone away and then she just,
um, finished the fast andstarted refeeding.
And yesterday she was on one ofthe calls and she said, you
know, I woke up this morning andI was afraid.
(29:59):
And I was so mad at myself,like, how could I go back into
the fear, like after I just dida 30 day water fast?
And I'm like, so I, I felt likeit was done.
And what I said to her is, Isaid, it's never done.
Like until we take our lastbreath, we're always going to
have those things that are ourpatterns that come up.
And I said, it's just giving youinformation and showing you.
(30:23):
And I'm still here.
There's still stuff to work on.
And just to be so proud ofyourself for all the work that
you've done, and to recognize itlike you recognized it in the
moment you're like, oh, okay,I'm back in the fear.
And don't pull up the whip andstart, you know, hitting
yourself and beating yourself upfor it.
Just be curious.
(30:44):
It's like, okay, what is thisshowing me now?
I've worked through so manylevels of this, like what's this
next level of fear that'sshowing me?
And I think when we show up withcuriosity and compassion for
ourselves in the healingprocess, that's where it feels
easier.
This work is not easy.
You know, I say healing's,simple, but it's not easy.
(31:06):
But it feels easier when we canbe gentle and kind with
ourselves and, and also justthinking about it like an onion.
You're like an onion and you'vejust got endless layers and
you're gonna do, you know,remove one, but then there's
gonna be something else because.
We are here to learn like thislifetime is to learn lessons and
to evolve, and that if we didn'thave lessons coming up, we
(31:30):
wouldn't be growing andevolving.
So I am always like, thank youfor showing me my next level of
how I can grow even more.
Ivelisse Page (31:39):
Yeah, I think that's such a powerful
statement.
We are like layers of an onionand as a, as a Christian, I seek
empathy from the Lord because heis my vision of empathy, right?
And how I should be empatheticas he is empathetic towards me.
And I think that in our liveswe're just so busy.
(32:01):
And just like you were sharingabout fasting and um, holding
something back from us so thingscan be revealed.
I also feel like things likestillness, solitude and silence
can also help us to be hearingthose things that we, we don't
normally listen to with thenoise of the world.
And then in, in my life, that'swhen the Lord speaks to me and
(32:23):
shares things that I need togrow in or that I need to work
on and, um, and to not feelalone.
So, you know, I really love allthat you're doing, Katie.
The work you're doing is just someaningful.
You are helping so many peoplein this vital work of emotional
healing and I'm just so gratefulthat there are people like you
(32:44):
out there that are doing this.
And, um, I just really wannathank you.
We're gonna put your informationin the notes of this podcast so
that people can connect with youif they'd like to learn more or
if they would like to learn fromyou.
And so in closing, is thereanything else that you would
like to share that I didn't geta chance to ask you?
Dr. Katie Deming (33:05):
Well, I think that one of the things that I is
important to know is thathealing is always possible.
Like it doesn't matter thestage.
It doesn't matter how deep yourtrauma, it doesn't matter what
you've been through.
Healing is always, alwaysavailable and possible, and I
(33:26):
really truly believe that andI've seen it.
So I think that's something thatI would like people to know.
Ivelisse Page (33:32):
Oh, that's beautiful.
Thank you so much for joiningus.
I know you're super busy and,uh, I know that everyone is
gonna gain such valuable insightfrom this podcast, from you
sharing.
So thank you for taking the timetoday,
Dr. Katie Deming (33:45):
Ivelisse.
Thank you so much for having me.
It was my pleasure.
I.
Believe Big (33:48):
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Ivelisse Page (34:32):
If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to
help support our podcast, pleasesubscribe and share it with
others.
Be sure to visit believebig.orgto access to show notes and
discover our bonus content.
Thanks again and keep BelievingBig!
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