June 17, 2025 • 30 mins
In this episode of the Believe Big podcast, Ivelisse welcomes Kathryn Gordon, a businesswoman, movie producer, author, and podcast host, to discuss the importance of self-advocacy in health care.
Kathryn shares her personal journey with breast implants, describing how they led to serious health issues that numerous doctors failed to diagnose correctly. She details the symptoms she experienced, the emotional and physical challenges, and the ultimate removal of her implants, which significantly improved her health.
The episode also covers important new FDA recommendations for women with implants, alternative options for post-mastectomy reconstruction, and the broader implications of introducing foreign objects into the body. Kathryn highlights the importance of listening to one's body and seeking divine guidance in health matters.
Connect with Kathryn Gordon on Instagram:
Kathryn Gordon - Instagram
Suggested Resources:
- PODCAST: Kathryn For Real
- BOOK: Relationship Grit
- LINK: George's Aloe Vera Liquid
- LINK: Monsters Inside Me (season 3, episode 2)
🎧 Loved this episode? Take the next step—learn more about the upcoming Believe Big Integrative Cancer Symposium, Saturday, September 13, 2025 and grab your in-person or virtual ticket at www.BelieveBig.org/symposium
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ivelisse Page (00:06):
Hi, I'm Ivelisse Page and thanks for listening to
the Believe Big podcast, theshow where we take a deep dive
into your healing with healthexperts, integrative
practitioners, biblical faithleaders, and cancer thrivers
from around the globe.
(00:34):
Welcome to today's episode onthe Believe Big podcast.
My name is Ivelisse Page, andit's an honor to spend this time
with you.
Have you been to a doctor'soffice with nagging symptoms
that wouldn't go away and toldthat they couldn't find
anything?
Or worse yet that it was all inyour head.
I am here to encourage you thatno one knows your body better
(00:56):
than you do, and it's importantto keep seeking answers and be
your own advocate.
It can save your life as it didfor my dear friend Kathryn
Gordon.
Jimmy and I have known Kathrynand her husband Jon for years.
She is a businesswoman, movieproducer, bestselling author of
Relationship Grit and the hostof the Kathryn for Real podcast.
(01:20):
It's a perfect name for herbecause she is just that.
As you will hear today, she isopen and honest and isn't afraid
to share difficult things inorder to help others.
Welcome Kathryn to the show.
Kathryn Gordon (01:35):
Oh, thank you so much for having me.
I'm really honored to be hereand this is very important for
us to get this message out topeople because I think so many
times people are told that it'sall in their head.
So let's just talk about it.
Ivelisse Page (01:50):
Yeah, I love it.
I'm so glad that you're here.
And so before we get into that,our listeners are always curious
as to what our guest's favoritehealth tip is.
So what is yours?
Kathryn Gordon (02:01):
I have several, but the one that comes to mind
is oregano oil capsules.
I have used wild organic oreganocapsules in my family since I
had my children.
If someone were starting to feelsick, I give them a capsule at
night before bed.
You wake up in the morning andyou feel great.
(02:22):
You know it's an antibacterial,antifungal, and it heats up the
body so it kills viruses andbacteria.
And anytime I've shared this onelittle item, the oregano, people
will text me and message me andthey're like oh my gosh, I had
no idea.
And and it's just oregano oil.
(02:43):
It's a beautiful thing.
So that's my favorite.
Ivelisse Page (02:46):
Yeah, it is great.
It really helps with any kind ofviral infections and things like
that, so that is a great tip forpeople to look into.
So you have an incredible storyand I recently found out about
it and really felt like I wantedpeople to hear it so that it can
really empower them to make thebest decisions for themselves
when it comes to medicaldecisions.
(03:07):
It's not a cancer story, but itis a story about being your own
advocate and really importantfor people to realize what you
went through and the steps thatyou did to change your outcome.
And can you share just a briefhistory?
People are probably wondering,what are we talking about?
And so you wanted to share yourstory about why you decided to
remove your breast implants.
(03:29):
And so can you start from alittle bit before then why did
you get your implants and whatled up to that and the symptoms
that you started to feel?
Kathryn Gordon (03:38):
I grew up in a beach town in Virginia Beach,
Virginia, and so there was a lotof bikini wearing and bikini
pageants and different contests.
And I did a lot of that stuffback then.
And one time I was doing a photoshoot for a resort magazine, and
the girl I was with had thesebeautiful breasts to be honest.
(04:00):
And I was like, wow.
And she goes, yes, I just boughtthem, blah, blah, blah.
And so she gave me the plasticsurgeon's number and I went and
I set up my surgery time, it was$2,500 and I had no money.
I literally went to a bank and Ithink the guy was so shocked
(04:21):
that I had the nerve to actuallywalk in and ask for$2,500 for
breast implants, that he gave mea loan and I paid I think it was
like$25 and 75 cents a month forfour years.
I don't know.
We'll have to do the math onthat, but by gosh, I got my loan
and I got the implants.
Ivelisse Page (04:39):
How old were you at the time?
Kathryn Gordon (04:40):
So I was 21.
Just about to turn 22.
Ivelisse Page (04:47):
Okay.
Kathryn Gordon (04:48):
So it was 1988.
Now I will back up.
So another part of that is, thetruth be told is I did not need
breast implants.
I was fine the way I was, and sowhen I went in there, I had
asked him to just give me like asize up, give me a C, like a big
C, and I woke up and I was avery large D.
(05:09):
And I was shocked.
And he actually said to me,patted me on my hips and said,
oh, this is good though.
I decided that I needed to dothem bigger so it would match
your hips so you'd be moreproportioned.
That could have been a lawsuitright then.
Ivelisse Page (05:25):
Yes.
Kathryn Gordon (05:25):
I'm 21, I didn't know any better.
Anyway, off I went and it's fineto have that size when you're
young and you're in bikinis allthe time.
So, I didn't have a lot ofsymptoms that I knew of early
on.
Now, in hindsight, when I lookback, I could probably say that
(05:45):
that was the issue.
But at the time, you know, itwasn't anything extreme.
Fast forward, about nine yearslater, almost 10 years later,
and I got pregnant with mydaughter.
And by the way, I had lookedinto getting them reduced, like
probably year five.
But the doctor had told meyou're gonna have children, if
you're gonna have children, justwait.
And then that way you can get anew pair and also address some
(06:08):
sagging, get a lift.
I got pregnant with my daughterand the big thing for me was
that I wanted to be able tobreastfeed.
And by the way I gained so muchweight with my pregnancy.
I was a 38 or a 40 F.
very uncomfortable.
I did start breastfeeding, butvery soon into that I started
(06:29):
having issues.
I starting having chills, andthen I would get like a tingling
up my neck.
And then as this continuedthrough the first month and the
second month, and by the way, Idid quit br breastfeeding my
daughter because I had gotmastitis, on the left side.
I think I was about two weeks,three weeks in.
(06:50):
And so I ended up weaning mydaughter.
And of course that was verydepressing because I had planned
on breastfeeding until she wastwo.
And I kept getting sicker andsicker.
I was achy all over.
It started to be really hard forme to open jars even screw on
the the bottle.
I was achy and I started gettinga really bad burning in my
(07:13):
chest.
It was almost like an asthma.
I started reacting toeverything.
I started to get it.
these things were coming out ofmy chest.
It was almost like these pusthings.
And now you gotta remember thiswhole time, I'm going to all
these doctors.
I'm going to a rheumatologist.
I'm going to a neurologist,because I started slurring my
(07:35):
words.
Ivelisse Page (07:36):
What did they say to you?
Kathryn Gordon (07:38):
Oh, they all would run a couple tests.
The rheumatologist said I hadsome slight arthritic type of
things.
The neurologist said there wasnothing wrong with me.
I had so many things done at theneurologist.
I did all this testing andnothing was really coming up,
nothing remarkable.
Now my blood work would showthat my white blood cells were
(08:01):
elevated, but they always said,you are, you're postpartum.
You're depressed.
You have fibromyalgia.
That was like the big term atthe time.
You have fibromyalgia.
And I kept saying, no,something's wrong with me.
I was a very healthy womanbefore I had my daughter and had
these symptoms.
Something's wrong.
(08:21):
And so this continued for awhile.
I felt like I was itching, mychest.
It was like itching from theinside out, if that makes sense.
I would almost have to beat mychest.
Well, as I would later find outthat was a fungal infection, but
there's a whole thing there, andso it was going down my arm and
I finally got to the point whereI couldn't lift my head.
(08:42):
Now, this whole time, my younghusband, we were young, didn't
believe me because every time Iwould come back from the doctor,
I would have no diagnosis.
I had several bottles ofOxycontin because they all just
prescribed me Oxycontin and justsaid, go home, take this, you
(09:02):
know you'll be okay.
And intuitively, and I thank Godfor this, I didn't ever take the
Oxycontin because I think Iwouldn't be here today, for
sure.
And so it was like I started tolose hope.
Ivelisse Page (09:16):
And I know that Jon now feels really terrible
about how he responded duringthose times.
In those days, you know whenyou're going to a practitioner
and you're going one after theother, and they're all saying
nothing's wrong.
I'm sure it was really hard forhim to hear what they're saying
and to see you and you knowtrying to probably figure out
for himself, is it postpartum oris it something more?
(09:38):
What was he thinking at thetime?
Kathryn Gordon (09:40):
I understand why he was coming from the place he
was.
He was a, a young father.
He was in law school at thetime, and I kept saying to him,
please stay home today.
I have another doctor'sappointment, and he would stay
home with our baby.
And then I would come home andagain, have no definitive answer
for why I was feeling the way Iwas.
(10:02):
And so it did, he did start tothink, you know what?
I think you might be losing it.
And believe me, there were timesI would stop and go, am I losing
it?
But then that other part of mewould be, no, there's something
wrong with you.
Ivelisse Page (10:17):
How long was this period, Kathryn?
Of trying to figure this out.
Kathryn Gordon (10:21):
The whole ordeal before I got my implants out was
about 10 months, but, definitelythose months, five, six, and
seven were getting really badand he was not very nice to me.
And I can say that now becausehe's the most amazing, loving,
wonderful husband and he justdidn't know what was going on.
And what happened was I ended updeciding that I didn't wanna
(10:45):
live anymore.
And I knew with that decision, Ihad gotten to a place where I
had finally lost hope.
And it's really hard to explain,but I know it's so well when I
hear somebody who's depressed orI remember that feeling like I
always, no matter what, felthopeful, and I had finally
gotten to this place of wherelike I can't go on.
(11:06):
And so I ended up, one night Iprayed to God and I just said,
God, please forgive me for whatI'm gonna do and please take
care of my new baby.
And, I just can't go on.
And my plan was to wake up inthe morning when Jon left for
law school and take thosebottles of Oxycontin.
And that night, in my dream, Iheard a voice as loud as
(11:30):
anything I've ever heard before.
And it said, your implants aremaking you sick.
You need to get your implantsout.
It was like a,
Ivelisse Page (11:39):
I have chills.
Kathryn Gordon (11:39):
A boom.
Yes, it makes me, every time Ithink about it, and I woke up
and I turned to Jon and I toldhim about my dream and for the
first time he looked over at meand he goes, you know what?
I believe you, I will secondmortgage our home to get my wife
back.
We were poor as church mice wedidn't have a lot of money but
he's like, I will do whatever ittakes to get you healthy again.
(12:01):
So I ended up going to thisplastic surgeon who, when I told
my friend this, she goes, ohyeah, I think a friend of ours
went.
Then you start finding out theselittle stories were happening,
but no one was really talkingabout'em.
So I went to this doctor and shegoes, oh yes, you're about the
hundredth person that's come inand said this to me.
It sounds like one of'em isinfected or there's an issue.
(12:21):
Let's open you up, clean youout, and then we'll put some new
ones back in.
And I said, you open me up andyou clean me out, and you close
me back up cuz I don't wanna dothis.
And the other thing I do need tosay is, back in those days, the
doctors never told you that youhad to get them replaced.
Ivelisse Page (12:39):
No.
Kathryn Gordon (12:39):
You had'em forever.
So no one had ever said to me,oh, by the way, you need to get
these replaced in 10 years.
Ivelisse Page (12:46):
They actually just put out a law.
Kathryn, I was researching lastnight and it said that the FDA
announced a series of changes inOctober of 2021, that they are
established new labelingrequirements for breast implant
manufacturers, including boxedwarnings.
They're also updating therecommendations designed to
detect leaks in the implants.
(13:08):
And they are also releasingupdated information on breast
implant post-approval studies tobetter inform patients.
So they're now, all these yearslater, I think because of
stories like yourself, they'readding these things in so that
to protect the future,individuals.
Kathryn Gordon (13:25):
That's interesting.
Remind me to tell you about theplastic surgeon that actually
put them in, because I didcontact him.
But so what ended up happeningis when this doctor opened me
up, she could not believe whatshe saw.
So much so that she had them goget a video camera.
And I still have that tape bythe way.
My implants, both of them wereblack and you could literally
(13:49):
see some kind of, it almostlooked like fingers in the
solution, which is supposed tobe a clear solution.
So now here's the interestingthing.
I didn't have any leaks.
They weren't leaking.
They were completely sealed.
So what happened?
We still don't know.
And luckily they hadn't leakedbecause when my implants were
(14:14):
sent off to be tested, I got acall from the doctor, the
researcher that actually testedmy implant.
His name is Dr.
Pierre Blais, and he was Frenchand he said, young lady, I just
had to hear your voice.
He said I have never met aliving human being that had
(14:36):
aspergillus niger just living intheir body with them alive.
He said, if you had rupturedyour implant, either one, at any
point in a car accident,anything, there is no medicine
in the world that would've savedyour life is what he said to me.
Ivelisse Page (14:55):
Wow.
Kathryn Gordon (14:55):
And that was back then.
And last words he said, younglady, you have won the lottery.
Ivelisse Page (15:02):
I would just say that God knew that we needed you
here much longer and you'redoing great things for him as
well and sharing with people somuch hope.
And so I really feel yourpurposes here are not over and
there's much more for you to do.
Kathryn Gordon (15:18):
Well, it's funny you say that because one of the
things that I did was I made adeal with God.
So after I got my breastimplants out and I started to
heal, back then the internet wasjust getting going, but I was
able to find some groups.
There was a woman out in SanDiego who had a breast implant
illness support group.
(15:39):
There were several.
It was hard to find them, butonce you found'em and got in
these groups there were a lot.
And so I was asked to do a lotof shows, a lot of magazine
articles, documentaries, and mypromise to God was that if he
would just get me healthy enoughto take care of my baby, where I
(16:00):
could function, I would be sureto just get this message out for
free to anybody who needed tohear it.
And that's what I've done asmuch as I can.
Ivelisse Page (16:10):
Amazing.
So circle back to that doctorwho put them in.
What happened when you told him?
Kathryn Gordon (16:15):
I ended up, after I got all the test results
back, and one of the things thatlooked like there was some kind
of additional liquid that wasput in as well into the saline
that it seemed to be popping up.
They didn't know what that was.
And so anyway, I called hisoffice and I asked the nurses
like, hey, this happened to me.
(16:37):
Have you heard about thishappening to anybody else?
And of course, the nurse waskinda like, we've gotten some
calls.
So the nurse alluded to me thatI wasn't the only one.
And shortly after that, thatdoctor retired.
Ivelisse Page (16:51):
Wow.
And there are many listeningthat have had implants, and
especially with Believe Big,that have had to get or have put
them in due to a mastectomy.
And I firmly believe, as I knowyou do, that every woman needs
to make the best medicaldecisions for themselves.
We all need to weigh the risksof every medical decision
personally.
But for those who choose to keepand use implants, I would like
(17:15):
to empower you who are listeningwith information that you might
not know, and the newrecommendations for women with
silicone or saline implants isto receive an MRI screening for
a silent rupture three yearsafter the implant surgery, and
then every two years after that.
I've never heard that.
And then also, Dr.
(17:36):
Connealy, who is one of the top50 integrative practitioners in
the United States andspecializes in oncology, just
recently shared the following,after several patients asked
about what to do after breastcancer and she shares this:"I
usually discuss using fat fromother parts of the body for
reconstruction, but of course,work with your doctor and it's
(17:58):
not medical advice that she issharing.
A breast implant, whether it'ssaline or silicone, is a foreign
body.
What happens when you put aforeign substance into your
body?
Your body mounts this incredibleinflammatory reaction." Dr.
Connealy has seen in some of herown staff when they've had their
breast implants removed, thatthere is this encasement of
(18:22):
inflammatory layers because ofthe implants.
You have all these inflammatorycells that are going in and
trying to protect you.
Dr.
Connealy recommends that youreally think twice about putting
any foreign body into yoursystem.
And so I thought, that was greatadvice from a medical
professional, but also makessense with cancer especially,
(18:44):
you're trying to reduceinflammation in your body and
actually for all diseases.
And I was also surprised aboutthat inflammatory response that
again, many people probablyaren't told or don't even know.
And so I'd like to ask you, howlong after the implants were
removed did you start to feelbetter?
Kathryn Gordon (19:03):
Because I had been sick for so long and I did
have a systemic fungal infectionand a systemic bacterial
infection, so it was in factattacking my brain and organs,
and that was part of the reasonI was slurring my words.
So I was on a lot of heavyantifungals and a, a very strong
antibiotic.
(19:23):
I already had a very irritatedstomach, almost like an ulcer.
And then when I got my breastimplants out and I started to
have to take those medications,it actually made me super, super
sick until I realized that itwas probably the antifungal and
it's the medication.
I started to do Aloe vera water.
George's Aloe Vera Water to coatmy stomach.
(19:45):
So I tried to do some things.
So then after that, I wanna sayI really started to feel better
fairly quickly.
Like within a month I wasstarting to feel like myself
again.
I did wanna go back because, oneof the things that we were
talking about with women thathave had breast cancer and
certainly are wanting to getback to feeling as normal as
(20:08):
they can.
It makes sense why they wouldwant to get breast implants,
absolutely.
But it was always a questionthat I had in my mind, like
you're talking about, well,gosh, you know, we're removing
the breast to take away thecancer.
This implant is a foreign bodylike you said.
Your body's natural response isto attack it.
(20:31):
It's foreign.
Ivelisse Page (20:32):
Yes.
Kathryn Gordon (20:32):
And I have found more so now than back 20 years
ago when this happened to me,and this is all of what your
podcast is all about.
We're at a different time, andso many people now have all
these allergies, all thesedifferent sensitivities and
allergies are popping up.
(20:52):
Our food supply, all theadditives, all the chemicals in
the water, in the air, all thefragrances, there's so many
assaults on our body.
And then you go and putsomething like a breast implant
in and it can be a recipe fordisaster.
And so it is good to know thatthey are coming up with ways
that can restore a woman'snatural breast shape without
(21:16):
having to put a foreign body.
I was just contacted by a nursewho had breast implants.
She had breast implant illnessand got her implants out and now
she works for a plastic surgeonin Beverly Hills and they
specialize in taking outimplants.
(21:38):
I'm actually getting ready tohave them on my podcast.
Ivelisse Page (21:42):
Fantastic.
Kathryn Gordon (21:42):
The awareness is there and it's starting to
happen.
And another thing I wanna pointon that you said is when you're
talking about the foreign bodyit's called a capsule.
And, a lot of doctors don't knowthat after you remove the
implant that you need to removethe capsule.
So that's another piece that thecapsule was being left in women
(22:04):
as well, and it would haveremnants of silicone because
even if you have salineimplants, the shell is silicone.
Ivelisse Page (22:11):
Yes.
Kathryn Gordon (22:11):
So you still have silicone, right?
Ivelisse Page (22:14):
Yes.
Kathryn Gordon (22:14):
Yeah.
So I think we're on our way tobetter education and a better
way of doing things.
Believe Big (22:21):
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Ivelisse Page (23:39):
And so what advice would you give to someone
who is listening and have feltlike they have been to numerous
doctors and they still don'thave answers?
Kathryn Gordon (23:47):
This is what I always tell people because to
this day I still have waves ofpeople reaching out to me and,
it's really hard, I understand,for a woman to spend the money
and go through this surgery toremove their implants when they
can't pinpoint if that was thereason or is the reason they're
(24:08):
sick.
And I can't give them thatanswer, and I don't think the
doctors really can.
But here's my thing, from alogical perspective, it's still
gonna make you healthier if youget the implants out and you're
still having symptoms, you atleast have done one part to help
yourself and your immune systemget balanced.
And I'll be honest, I haven'tmet so far, one woman who has
(24:33):
told me that removing herimplants was a mistake.
No one's ever said that to me.
Now, do women worry about whatthey're gonna look like after
implants?
Absolutely.
And that is why so many won'tget them out.
So I have something that I did,again, I think it's a God thing.
And I really think it, it helpedme a lot and I shared this with
(24:56):
a couple women and then I hadone other woman say, yes, it
worked.
So it's this, once I got myimplants out, I think it was
about a month out.
And they wrap you really tightwith the ACE bandage.
If you think about it like this,it's common sense.
You're taking this implant outand so now there's the empty
space and this, it's now gonnabe tissue to tissue so that it
fuses together.
(25:17):
So the tendency is for it to layflat, right?
Because it's got that what wassomething large in there.
So I ended up seeing a Chinesecupping, he was a Chinese
doctor, and, a friend of minehad brought him in from China.
You don't even have to do thisnow.
Now you can get cupping up thestreet.
(25:37):
You can do it yourself.
This is way back when it waslike taboo.
But he actually did cuppingaround my breast, and like
almost pulled up the tissue in away, broke it up and broke up
the scar tissue that it ended upmaking me look normal, like it
wasn't so flat to my chest.
(25:58):
So I always recommend women dothat.
So that's a little trick.
I can't give you any scientificstudies.
It kind of makes sense, right?
Ivelisse Page (26:05):
It really does.
And I know the benefits ofcupping for health reasons, and
it does add blood flow into thearea.
I think Michael Phelps made itpopular before his Olympic
trials.
You see all the octopus marksall over his back, but it really
helps with blood flow andactually lymph drainage and all
of those things.
So that really makes sense.
I also wanna encourage peoplewith what you said, you just
(26:27):
kept searching for answers.
I also like that you sought Godfor help.
And and for those of us who arebelievers, we have the spirit of
the living God living inside ofus.
It says we have the mind ofChrist.
So if we have the mind ofChrist, he has the answers for
us.
We just have to ask.
And so many times we try and doit all ourselves and meanwhile
He's waiting patiently, and heanswers us every time.
(26:50):
And so I just didn't want thataspect to slip by someone
because that was so powerful.
And like you, for myself aswell, before I was diagnosed
with cancer, I had all theseweird symptoms too.
They thought I had fibromyalgia,they thought I had MS.
I had all these scans, tinglingalong my back, and all those
(27:10):
things led to the testing, whichended up finding that I actually
had cancer.
But you know, it is soimportant, I encourage people
who are listening for preventingillness or disease, listen to
what many people say is your gutor the Holy Spirit to listen to
what your body is telling you onyour healing journey and on your
health journey.
(27:31):
Don't ignore it.
And so I would love you to closeour podcast with what did this
medical issue teach you aboutyourself?
Kathryn Gordon (27:39):
Well, I think it boils down to loving yourself.
I learned a lot.
There's really not one specificthing.
But I think if I had to justclose it all up, is that, love
yourself and love the way Godmade you.
And so you don't have to dothese now.
In the event that you have amastectomy and you are wanting
(28:02):
to get some natural shape.
I understand that.
And I do think, now with allthese new procedures and the fat
transfer, there are ways to makethat happen.
In general, it's listening toyourself.
Your body does tell you, andlike you said, it's the body of
Christ.
He's with us.
Normally the message we're beinggiven the message and you have
to just pay attention to it.
Ivelisse Page (28:23):
Yes.
I agree.
Thank you so much, Kathryn, forbeing on, for being transparent,
for sharing your story.
And I know that those arelistening, really gained some
incredible insight because ofyour story.
And so really thank you forsharing it with us today.
Kathryn Gordon (28:39):
Oh, I wanna add something.
I did something called MonstersInside Me.
So there is an episode ifsomebody would want to go watch
it.
And funny enough, you can't findany advertising for the US part,
but the English one is still up.
But I'll tell you this, it'sMonsters Inside Me and that's on
(28:59):
the, it was the DiscoveryChannel.
And it's the name of the episodeis called Something's Eating My
Son Inside Out.
But my story is in there andit's season three, episode two.
And so I know you can still findit.
Anybody is welcome to reach outto me if they have questions.
(29:19):
My Instagram handle is@KathrynGordon.
It's k a t h r y n g o r d o n.
And I would be glad to answerany questions or direct you to
somebody if I could possiblyprovide a resource for you, for
free.
I would gladly do it.
Ivelisse Page (29:38):
Thank you so much.
Yes, we will add all of thoselinks to your website, to your
books, so that people can get intouch with you and the resources
that you just shared.
So thank you so much.
Kathryn Gordon (29:49):
Thank you for having me.
Ivelisse Page (29:58):
If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to
help support our podcast, pleasesubscribe and share it with
others.
Be sure to visit believebig.orgto access the show notes and
discover our bonus content.
Thanks again and keep BelievingBig!
Hi, I'm Ivelisse Page and thanks for listening to
the Believe Big podcast, theshow where we take a deep dive
into your healing with healthexperts, integrative
practitioners, biblical faithleaders, and cancer thrivers
from around the globe.
(00:34):
Welcome to today's episode onthe Believe Big podcast.
My name is Ivelisse Page, andit's an honor to spend this time
with you.
Have you been to a doctor'soffice with nagging symptoms
that wouldn't go away and toldthat they couldn't find
anything?
Or worse yet that it was all inyour head.
I am here to encourage you thatno one knows your body better
(00:56):
than you do, and it's importantto keep seeking answers and be
your own advocate.
It can save your life as it didfor my dear friend Kathryn
Gordon.
Jimmy and I have known Kathrynand her husband Jon for years.
She is a businesswoman, movieproducer, bestselling author of
Relationship Grit and the hostof the Kathryn for Real podcast.
(01:20):
It's a perfect name for herbecause she is just that.
As you will hear today, she isopen and honest and isn't afraid
to share difficult things inorder to help others.
Welcome Kathryn to the show.
Kathryn Gordon (01:35):
Oh, thank you so much for having me.
I'm really honored to be hereand this is very important for
us to get this message out topeople because I think so many
times people are told that it'sall in their head.
So let's just talk about it.
Ivelisse Page (01:50):
Yeah, I love it.
I'm so glad that you're here.
And so before we get into that,our listeners are always curious
as to what our guest's favoritehealth tip is.
So what is yours?
Kathryn Gordon (02:01):
I have several, but the one that comes to mind
is oregano oil capsules.
I have used wild organic oreganocapsules in my family since I
had my children.
If someone were starting to feelsick, I give them a capsule at
night before bed.
You wake up in the morning andyou feel great.
(02:22):
You know it's an antibacterial,antifungal, and it heats up the
body so it kills viruses andbacteria.
And anytime I've shared this onelittle item, the oregano, people
will text me and message me andthey're like oh my gosh, I had
no idea.
And and it's just oregano oil.
(02:43):
It's a beautiful thing.
So that's my favorite.
Ivelisse Page (02:46):
Yeah, it is great.
It really helps with any kind ofviral infections and things like
that, so that is a great tip forpeople to look into.
So you have an incredible storyand I recently found out about
it and really felt like I wantedpeople to hear it so that it can
really empower them to make thebest decisions for themselves
when it comes to medicaldecisions.
(03:07):
It's not a cancer story, but itis a story about being your own
advocate and really importantfor people to realize what you
went through and the steps thatyou did to change your outcome.
And can you share just a briefhistory?
People are probably wondering,what are we talking about?
And so you wanted to share yourstory about why you decided to
remove your breast implants.
(03:29):
And so can you start from alittle bit before then why did
you get your implants and whatled up to that and the symptoms
that you started to feel?
Kathryn Gordon (03:38):
I grew up in a beach town in Virginia Beach,
Virginia, and so there was a lotof bikini wearing and bikini
pageants and different contests.
And I did a lot of that stuffback then.
And one time I was doing a photoshoot for a resort magazine, and
the girl I was with had thesebeautiful breasts to be honest.
(04:00):
And I was like, wow.
And she goes, yes, I just boughtthem, blah, blah, blah.
And so she gave me the plasticsurgeon's number and I went and
I set up my surgery time, it was$2,500 and I had no money.
I literally went to a bank and Ithink the guy was so shocked
(04:21):
that I had the nerve to actuallywalk in and ask for$2,500 for
breast implants, that he gave mea loan and I paid I think it was
like$25 and 75 cents a month forfour years.
I don't know.
We'll have to do the math onthat, but by gosh, I got my loan
and I got the implants.
Ivelisse Page (04:39):
How old were you at the time?
Kathryn Gordon (04:40):
So I was 21.
Just about to turn 22.
Ivelisse Page (04:47):
Okay.
Kathryn Gordon (04:48):
So it was 1988.
Now I will back up.
So another part of that is, thetruth be told is I did not need
breast implants.
I was fine the way I was, and sowhen I went in there, I had
asked him to just give me like asize up, give me a C, like a big
C, and I woke up and I was avery large D.
(05:09):
And I was shocked.
And he actually said to me,patted me on my hips and said,
oh, this is good though.
I decided that I needed to dothem bigger so it would match
your hips so you'd be moreproportioned.
That could have been a lawsuitright then.
Ivelisse Page (05:25):
Yes.
Kathryn Gordon (05:25):
I'm 21, I didn't know any better.
Anyway, off I went and it's fineto have that size when you're
young and you're in bikinis allthe time.
So, I didn't have a lot ofsymptoms that I knew of early
on.
Now, in hindsight, when I lookback, I could probably say that
(05:45):
that was the issue.
But at the time, you know, itwasn't anything extreme.
Fast forward, about nine yearslater, almost 10 years later,
and I got pregnant with mydaughter.
And by the way, I had lookedinto getting them reduced, like
probably year five.
But the doctor had told meyou're gonna have children, if
you're gonna have children, justwait.
And then that way you can get anew pair and also address some
(06:08):
sagging, get a lift.
I got pregnant with my daughterand the big thing for me was
that I wanted to be able tobreastfeed.
And by the way I gained so muchweight with my pregnancy.
I was a 38 or a 40 F.
very uncomfortable.
I did start breastfeeding, butvery soon into that I started
(06:29):
having issues.
I starting having chills, andthen I would get like a tingling
up my neck.
And then as this continuedthrough the first month and the
second month, and by the way, Idid quit br breastfeeding my
daughter because I had gotmastitis, on the left side.
I think I was about two weeks,three weeks in.
(06:50):
And so I ended up weaning mydaughter.
And of course that was verydepressing because I had planned
on breastfeeding until she wastwo.
And I kept getting sicker andsicker.
I was achy all over.
It started to be really hard forme to open jars even screw on
the the bottle.
I was achy and I started gettinga really bad burning in my
(07:13):
chest.
It was almost like an asthma.
I started reacting toeverything.
I started to get it.
these things were coming out ofmy chest.
It was almost like these pusthings.
And now you gotta remember thiswhole time, I'm going to all
these doctors.
I'm going to a rheumatologist.
I'm going to a neurologist,because I started slurring my
(07:35):
words.
Ivelisse Page (07:36):
What did they say to you?
Kathryn Gordon (07:38):
Oh, they all would run a couple tests.
The rheumatologist said I hadsome slight arthritic type of
things.
The neurologist said there wasnothing wrong with me.
I had so many things done at theneurologist.
I did all this testing andnothing was really coming up,
nothing remarkable.
Now my blood work would showthat my white blood cells were
(08:01):
elevated, but they always said,you are, you're postpartum.
You're depressed.
You have fibromyalgia.
That was like the big term atthe time.
You have fibromyalgia.
And I kept saying, no,something's wrong with me.
I was a very healthy womanbefore I had my daughter and had
these symptoms.
Something's wrong.
(08:21):
And so this continued for awhile.
I felt like I was itching, mychest.
It was like itching from theinside out, if that makes sense.
I would almost have to beat mychest.
Well, as I would later find outthat was a fungal infection, but
there's a whole thing there, andso it was going down my arm and
I finally got to the point whereI couldn't lift my head.
(08:42):
Now, this whole time, my younghusband, we were young, didn't
believe me because every time Iwould come back from the doctor,
I would have no diagnosis.
I had several bottles ofOxycontin because they all just
prescribed me Oxycontin and justsaid, go home, take this, you
(09:02):
know you'll be okay.
And intuitively, and I thank Godfor this, I didn't ever take the
Oxycontin because I think Iwouldn't be here today, for
sure.
And so it was like I started tolose hope.
Ivelisse Page (09:16):
And I know that Jon now feels really terrible
about how he responded duringthose times.
In those days, you know whenyou're going to a practitioner
and you're going one after theother, and they're all saying
nothing's wrong.
I'm sure it was really hard forhim to hear what they're saying
and to see you and you knowtrying to probably figure out
for himself, is it postpartum oris it something more?
(09:38):
What was he thinking at thetime?
Kathryn Gordon (09:40):
I understand why he was coming from the place he
was.
He was a, a young father.
He was in law school at thetime, and I kept saying to him,
please stay home today.
I have another doctor'sappointment, and he would stay
home with our baby.
And then I would come home andagain, have no definitive answer
for why I was feeling the way Iwas.
(10:02):
And so it did, he did start tothink, you know what?
I think you might be losing it.
And believe me, there were timesI would stop and go, am I losing
it?
But then that other part of mewould be, no, there's something
wrong with you.
Ivelisse Page (10:17):
How long was this period, Kathryn?
Of trying to figure this out.
Kathryn Gordon (10:21):
The whole ordeal before I got my implants out was
about 10 months, but, definitelythose months, five, six, and
seven were getting really badand he was not very nice to me.
And I can say that now becausehe's the most amazing, loving,
wonderful husband and he justdidn't know what was going on.
And what happened was I ended updeciding that I didn't wanna
(10:45):
live anymore.
And I knew with that decision, Ihad gotten to a place where I
had finally lost hope.
And it's really hard to explain,but I know it's so well when I
hear somebody who's depressed orI remember that feeling like I
always, no matter what, felthopeful, and I had finally
gotten to this place of wherelike I can't go on.
(11:06):
And so I ended up, one night Iprayed to God and I just said,
God, please forgive me for whatI'm gonna do and please take
care of my new baby.
And, I just can't go on.
And my plan was to wake up inthe morning when Jon left for
law school and take thosebottles of Oxycontin.
And that night, in my dream, Iheard a voice as loud as
(11:30):
anything I've ever heard before.
And it said, your implants aremaking you sick.
You need to get your implantsout.
It was like a,
Ivelisse Page (11:39):
I have chills.
Kathryn Gordon (11:39):
A boom.
Yes, it makes me, every time Ithink about it, and I woke up
and I turned to Jon and I toldhim about my dream and for the
first time he looked over at meand he goes, you know what?
I believe you, I will secondmortgage our home to get my wife
back.
We were poor as church mice wedidn't have a lot of money but
he's like, I will do whatever ittakes to get you healthy again.
(12:01):
So I ended up going to thisplastic surgeon who, when I told
my friend this, she goes, ohyeah, I think a friend of ours
went.
Then you start finding out theselittle stories were happening,
but no one was really talkingabout'em.
So I went to this doctor and shegoes, oh yes, you're about the
hundredth person that's come inand said this to me.
It sounds like one of'em isinfected or there's an issue.
(12:21):
Let's open you up, clean youout, and then we'll put some new
ones back in.
And I said, you open me up andyou clean me out, and you close
me back up cuz I don't wanna dothis.
And the other thing I do need tosay is, back in those days, the
doctors never told you that youhad to get them replaced.
Ivelisse Page (12:39):
No.
Kathryn Gordon (12:39):
You had'em forever.
So no one had ever said to me,oh, by the way, you need to get
these replaced in 10 years.
Ivelisse Page (12:46):
They actually just put out a law.
Kathryn, I was researching lastnight and it said that the FDA
announced a series of changes inOctober of 2021, that they are
established new labelingrequirements for breast implant
manufacturers, including boxedwarnings.
They're also updating therecommendations designed to
detect leaks in the implants.
(13:08):
And they are also releasingupdated information on breast
implant post-approval studies tobetter inform patients.
So they're now, all these yearslater, I think because of
stories like yourself, they'readding these things in so that
to protect the future,individuals.
Kathryn Gordon (13:25):
That's interesting.
Remind me to tell you about theplastic surgeon that actually
put them in, because I didcontact him.
But so what ended up happeningis when this doctor opened me
up, she could not believe whatshe saw.
So much so that she had them goget a video camera.
And I still have that tape bythe way.
My implants, both of them wereblack and you could literally
(13:49):
see some kind of, it almostlooked like fingers in the
solution, which is supposed tobe a clear solution.
So now here's the interestingthing.
I didn't have any leaks.
They weren't leaking.
They were completely sealed.
So what happened?
We still don't know.
And luckily they hadn't leakedbecause when my implants were
(14:14):
sent off to be tested, I got acall from the doctor, the
researcher that actually testedmy implant.
His name is Dr.
Pierre Blais, and he was Frenchand he said, young lady, I just
had to hear your voice.
He said I have never met aliving human being that had
(14:36):
aspergillus niger just living intheir body with them alive.
He said, if you had rupturedyour implant, either one, at any
point in a car accident,anything, there is no medicine
in the world that would've savedyour life is what he said to me.
Ivelisse Page (14:55):
Wow.
Kathryn Gordon (14:55):
And that was back then.
And last words he said, younglady, you have won the lottery.
Ivelisse Page (15:02):
I would just say that God knew that we needed you
here much longer and you'redoing great things for him as
well and sharing with people somuch hope.
And so I really feel yourpurposes here are not over and
there's much more for you to do.
Kathryn Gordon (15:18):
Well, it's funny you say that because one of the
things that I did was I made adeal with God.
So after I got my breastimplants out and I started to
heal, back then the internet wasjust getting going, but I was
able to find some groups.
There was a woman out in SanDiego who had a breast implant
illness support group.
(15:39):
There were several.
It was hard to find them, butonce you found'em and got in
these groups there were a lot.
And so I was asked to do a lotof shows, a lot of magazine
articles, documentaries, and mypromise to God was that if he
would just get me healthy enoughto take care of my baby, where I
(16:00):
could function, I would be sureto just get this message out for
free to anybody who needed tohear it.
And that's what I've done asmuch as I can.
Ivelisse Page (16:10):
Amazing.
So circle back to that doctorwho put them in.
What happened when you told him?
Kathryn Gordon (16:15):
I ended up, after I got all the test results
back, and one of the things thatlooked like there was some kind
of additional liquid that wasput in as well into the saline
that it seemed to be popping up.
They didn't know what that was.
And so anyway, I called hisoffice and I asked the nurses
like, hey, this happened to me.
(16:37):
Have you heard about thishappening to anybody else?
And of course, the nurse waskinda like, we've gotten some
calls.
So the nurse alluded to me thatI wasn't the only one.
And shortly after that, thatdoctor retired.
Ivelisse Page (16:51):
Wow.
And there are many listeningthat have had implants, and
especially with Believe Big,that have had to get or have put
them in due to a mastectomy.
And I firmly believe, as I knowyou do, that every woman needs
to make the best medicaldecisions for themselves.
We all need to weigh the risksof every medical decision
personally.
But for those who choose to keepand use implants, I would like
(17:15):
to empower you who are listeningwith information that you might
not know, and the newrecommendations for women with
silicone or saline implants isto receive an MRI screening for
a silent rupture three yearsafter the implant surgery, and
then every two years after that.
I've never heard that.
And then also, Dr.
(17:36):
Connealy, who is one of the top50 integrative practitioners in
the United States andspecializes in oncology, just
recently shared the following,after several patients asked
about what to do after breastcancer and she shares this:"I
usually discuss using fat fromother parts of the body for
reconstruction, but of course,work with your doctor and it's
(17:58):
not medical advice that she issharing.
A breast implant, whether it'ssaline or silicone, is a foreign
body.
What happens when you put aforeign substance into your
body?
Your body mounts this incredibleinflammatory reaction." Dr.
Connealy has seen in some of herown staff when they've had their
breast implants removed, thatthere is this encasement of
(18:22):
inflammatory layers because ofthe implants.
You have all these inflammatorycells that are going in and
trying to protect you.
Dr.
Connealy recommends that youreally think twice about putting
any foreign body into yoursystem.
And so I thought, that was greatadvice from a medical
professional, but also makessense with cancer especially,
(18:44):
you're trying to reduceinflammation in your body and
actually for all diseases.
And I was also surprised aboutthat inflammatory response that
again, many people probablyaren't told or don't even know.
And so I'd like to ask you, howlong after the implants were
removed did you start to feelbetter?
Kathryn Gordon (19:03):
Because I had been sick for so long and I did
have a systemic fungal infectionand a systemic bacterial
infection, so it was in factattacking my brain and organs,
and that was part of the reasonI was slurring my words.
So I was on a lot of heavyantifungals and a, a very strong
antibiotic.
(19:23):
I already had a very irritatedstomach, almost like an ulcer.
And then when I got my breastimplants out and I started to
have to take those medications,it actually made me super, super
sick until I realized that itwas probably the antifungal and
it's the medication.
I started to do Aloe vera water.
George's Aloe Vera Water to coatmy stomach.
(19:45):
So I tried to do some things.
So then after that, I wanna sayI really started to feel better
fairly quickly.
Like within a month I wasstarting to feel like myself
again.
I did wanna go back because, oneof the things that we were
talking about with women thathave had breast cancer and
certainly are wanting to getback to feeling as normal as
(20:08):
they can.
It makes sense why they wouldwant to get breast implants,
absolutely.
But it was always a questionthat I had in my mind, like
you're talking about, well,gosh, you know, we're removing
the breast to take away thecancer.
This implant is a foreign bodylike you said.
Your body's natural response isto attack it.
(20:31):
It's foreign.
Ivelisse Page (20:32):
Yes.
Kathryn Gordon (20:32):
And I have found more so now than back 20 years
ago when this happened to me,and this is all of what your
podcast is all about.
We're at a different time, andso many people now have all
these allergies, all thesedifferent sensitivities and
allergies are popping up.
(20:52):
Our food supply, all theadditives, all the chemicals in
the water, in the air, all thefragrances, there's so many
assaults on our body.
And then you go and putsomething like a breast implant
in and it can be a recipe fordisaster.
And so it is good to know thatthey are coming up with ways
that can restore a woman'snatural breast shape without
(21:16):
having to put a foreign body.
I was just contacted by a nursewho had breast implants.
She had breast implant illnessand got her implants out and now
she works for a plastic surgeonin Beverly Hills and they
specialize in taking outimplants.
(21:38):
I'm actually getting ready tohave them on my podcast.
Ivelisse Page (21:42):
Fantastic.
Kathryn Gordon (21:42):
The awareness is there and it's starting to
happen.
And another thing I wanna pointon that you said is when you're
talking about the foreign bodyit's called a capsule.
And, a lot of doctors don't knowthat after you remove the
implant that you need to removethe capsule.
So that's another piece that thecapsule was being left in women
(22:04):
as well, and it would haveremnants of silicone because
even if you have salineimplants, the shell is silicone.
Ivelisse Page (22:11):
Yes.
Kathryn Gordon (22:11):
So you still have silicone, right?
Ivelisse Page (22:14):
Yes.
Kathryn Gordon (22:14):
Yeah.
So I think we're on our way tobetter education and a better
way of doing things.
Believe Big (22:21):
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Ivelisse Page (23:39):
And so what advice would you give to someone
who is listening and have feltlike they have been to numerous
doctors and they still don'thave answers?
Kathryn Gordon (23:47):
This is what I always tell people because to
this day I still have waves ofpeople reaching out to me and,
it's really hard, I understand,for a woman to spend the money
and go through this surgery toremove their implants when they
can't pinpoint if that was thereason or is the reason they're
(24:08):
sick.
And I can't give them thatanswer, and I don't think the
doctors really can.
But here's my thing, from alogical perspective, it's still
gonna make you healthier if youget the implants out and you're
still having symptoms, you atleast have done one part to help
yourself and your immune systemget balanced.
And I'll be honest, I haven'tmet so far, one woman who has
(24:33):
told me that removing herimplants was a mistake.
No one's ever said that to me.
Now, do women worry about whatthey're gonna look like after
implants?
Absolutely.
And that is why so many won'tget them out.
So I have something that I did,again, I think it's a God thing.
And I really think it, it helpedme a lot and I shared this with
(24:56):
a couple women and then I hadone other woman say, yes, it
worked.
So it's this, once I got myimplants out, I think it was
about a month out.
And they wrap you really tightwith the ACE bandage.
If you think about it like this,it's common sense.
You're taking this implant outand so now there's the empty
space and this, it's now gonnabe tissue to tissue so that it
fuses together.
(25:17):
So the tendency is for it to layflat, right?
Because it's got that what wassomething large in there.
So I ended up seeing a Chinesecupping, he was a Chinese
doctor, and, a friend of minehad brought him in from China.
You don't even have to do thisnow.
Now you can get cupping up thestreet.
(25:37):
You can do it yourself.
This is way back when it waslike taboo.
But he actually did cuppingaround my breast, and like
almost pulled up the tissue in away, broke it up and broke up
the scar tissue that it ended upmaking me look normal, like it
wasn't so flat to my chest.
(25:58):
So I always recommend women dothat.
So that's a little trick.
I can't give you any scientificstudies.
It kind of makes sense, right?
Ivelisse Page (26:05):
It really does.
And I know the benefits ofcupping for health reasons, and
it does add blood flow into thearea.
I think Michael Phelps made itpopular before his Olympic
trials.
You see all the octopus marksall over his back, but it really
helps with blood flow andactually lymph drainage and all
of those things.
So that really makes sense.
I also wanna encourage peoplewith what you said, you just
(26:27):
kept searching for answers.
I also like that you sought Godfor help.
And and for those of us who arebelievers, we have the spirit of
the living God living inside ofus.
It says we have the mind ofChrist.
So if we have the mind ofChrist, he has the answers for
us.
We just have to ask.
And so many times we try and doit all ourselves and meanwhile
He's waiting patiently, and heanswers us every time.
(26:50):
And so I just didn't want thataspect to slip by someone
because that was so powerful.
And like you, for myself aswell, before I was diagnosed
with cancer, I had all theseweird symptoms too.
They thought I had fibromyalgia,they thought I had MS.
I had all these scans, tinglingalong my back, and all those
(27:10):
things led to the testing, whichended up finding that I actually
had cancer.
But you know, it is soimportant, I encourage people
who are listening for preventingillness or disease, listen to
what many people say is your gutor the Holy Spirit to listen to
what your body is telling you onyour healing journey and on your
health journey.
(27:31):
Don't ignore it.
And so I would love you to closeour podcast with what did this
medical issue teach you aboutyourself?
Kathryn Gordon (27:39):
Well, I think it boils down to loving yourself.
I learned a lot.
There's really not one specificthing.
But I think if I had to justclose it all up, is that, love
yourself and love the way Godmade you.
And so you don't have to dothese now.
In the event that you have amastectomy and you are wanting
(28:02):
to get some natural shape.
I understand that.
And I do think, now with allthese new procedures and the fat
transfer, there are ways to makethat happen.
In general, it's listening toyourself.
Your body does tell you, andlike you said, it's the body of
Christ.
He's with us.
Normally the message we're beinggiven the message and you have
to just pay attention to it.
Ivelisse Page (28:23):
Yes.
I agree.
Thank you so much, Kathryn, forbeing on, for being transparent,
for sharing your story.
And I know that those arelistening, really gained some
incredible insight because ofyour story.
And so really thank you forsharing it with us today.
Kathryn Gordon (28:39):
Oh, I wanna add something.
I did something called MonstersInside Me.
So there is an episode ifsomebody would want to go watch
it.
And funny enough, you can't findany advertising for the US part,
but the English one is still up.
But I'll tell you this, it'sMonsters Inside Me and that's on
(28:59):
the, it was the DiscoveryChannel.
And it's the name of the episodeis called Something's Eating My
Son Inside Out.
But my story is in there andit's season three, episode two.
And so I know you can still findit.
Anybody is welcome to reach outto me if they have questions.
(29:19):
My Instagram handle is@KathrynGordon.
It's k a t h r y n g o r d o n.
And I would be glad to answerany questions or direct you to
somebody if I could possiblyprovide a resource for you, for
free.
I would gladly do it.
Ivelisse Page (29:38):
Thank you so much.
Yes, we will add all of thoselinks to your website, to your
books, so that people can get intouch with you and the resources
that you just shared.
So thank you so much.
Kathryn Gordon (29:49):
Thank you for having me.
Ivelisse Page (29:58):
If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to
help support our podcast, pleasesubscribe and share it with
others.
Be sure to visit believebig.orgto access the show notes and
discover our bonus content.
Thanks again and keep BelievingBig!
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