October 31, 2024 • 28 mins
What does it truly mean to belong, and how do personal hardships shape our sense of community? Join us as Emmy and Murrow award-winning journalist Nick Fineman takes us on a journey through the highs and lows of his career in TV news. Nick's compelling narrative unfolds against the backdrop of a family legacy in media, where he determinedly carved out his own path despite initial struggles and recent personal losses, including the recent death of his father. His heartfelt reflections reveal how moments of discomfort and growth lead to a deeper understanding of connection and comfort.
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Rabbi Ben H. Spratt (00:04):
The human story is the search for
belonging, from childhood toadulthood, in joy and in
struggle, we all sit inquestions of how to make sense
of it all.
What is our place?
Why are we here?
What is our story of searching?
Join us in conversation withcommunity members each sharing
some of their own story.
(00:27):
I am Ben Spratt and this isBelonging, so I'm overjoyed to
get to be sitting with NickFunman today.
And, Nick, there are many, manyways to tell your story.
A huge CV that we can lift up.
While in the context of a182-year-old congregation, you
(00:49):
joining three years ago feelsreally recent, I will say that
already in those three years youwere one of the voices and
sources of advisement thathelped us actually even launch,
create this podcast.
So it feels like a beautifulfull circle of you immediately
stepping in the congregation andhelping us make this a reality
and now getting to be a guest onit.
(01:10):
So a few words on Nick.
So Nick is an Emmy and Murrowaward-winning journalist, tv
producer, podcast creator andeditor whose work has been
watched, streamed and downloadedbillions of times.
He works as senior producer forMSNBC and there he leads
editorial story selection,planning, control room,
production and direction ofMSNBC's 1 pm show, the Chris
(01:32):
Jansen Report.
Jansen Reports.
Feynman has written andproduced news, making
high-profile interviews, as wellas stories and breaking news
situations from the fieldcontrol room and edit bay.
Previously, Feynman worked as aproducer for shows including
the Today Show, NBC News and CBSNews Just a few things that
you've accomplished already inyour career, Nick, and I think
(01:53):
now is very evident to everyonewhy we need your wisdom in
launching this podcast.
So it is a joy to be with youtoday.
I want to just also begin byacknowledging that this
community joins so many in theworld alongside you in grieving
your father Howard and certainlythink about his legacy as
really a groundbreakingjournalist in this country, not
(02:15):
only the way in which his legacyripples through you, but the
way in which he has been one ofthe truth tellers and story
shapers of this country.
We mourn him and we join you inreally solidarity support at
this time and grateful that,even amidst the recent loss,
you're willing to be a part ofthis conversation today, Nick.
Nick Fineman (02:32):
Sure, I'm honored to be here and I don't think
just to a previous thing of whatyou said.
I don't think my joining hadanything to do with something
like this podcast started.
There's so many amazing storiesthat are part of this community
that this is just a new way offocusing them and I think that's
really amazing.
And thank you for the kindwords about my dad.
(02:53):
He got to spend some time inthis congregation and with the
congregants and always marveledhow smart of a group it was and
how thoughtful it was, and thoseare in my short time here.
I've taken those things away aswell.
Rabbi Ben H. Spratt (03:07):
Well, we're grateful that you've joined,
rolled up your sleeves and, youknow, are in the fray with us
all right now.
Nick, as you know, this reallyis a podcast that is all about
belonging and opening people'sstories so that we all can see
that not only there are dazzlingsources of inspiration just
right around us in thiscongregation, but also to remind
(03:29):
us that we're not alone.
And I was wondering if you'd bewilling to start by just
telling us a little bit aboutyour search for belonging.
Nick Fineman (03:36):
So much of belonging to me equates comfort,
and you have to be souncomfortable in order to learn
and grow that even finding aplace like Rodeph Sholom least
professionally get a chance tohave conversations that not only
(04:07):
push my own mind but otherpeople's.
How does that allow me to grow,how does that allow me to learn?
And ultimately, for me, I thinkbelonging is is connected to
understanding.
But you can't get there withoutwithout the discomfort, without
going through tough work times,without going through tough
personal times I mean youmentioned at the discomfort,
without going through tough worktimes, without going through
tough personal times.
I mean you mentioned at the topmy family's grieving right now,
(04:29):
and it's been tough in a lot ofways.
It's also been reallyeye-opening in a lot of ways to
go through a family loss and Ithink it is yet another thing
that has helped me learn andgrow and understand not only how
I myself function, but alsowhat I need around me in order
to belong, in order to feelcomfortable, in order to feel
(04:50):
that connection either with thepeople or the institutions.
Rabbi Ben H. Spratt (04:52):
And so let's dive into the story a
little bit, because I think youknow the point that you make, I
think is a profound one.
You know that it's actually inthe moments of discomfort, in
the moments when we feelstretched, stretched or maybe
even broken, that we are invitedinto that reach towards
belonging, that reach towards afeeling of restoration, of
safety, of home again.
And I'm wondering, if you can,kind of like, on the journey of
(05:15):
life, knowing that it probablyhas some peaks and valleys and
things, what were some of thosemoments where, whether willingly
or unwillingly, you were throwninto some of those the waters
of discomfort and kind of whatemerged on the other side?
Nick Fineman (05:29):
Sure, well, I think, first and foremost,
choosing to enter the TV newsworld, enter the media world,
and for me it was.
It started in at CBS news I Ibooked cars for the morning show
for the big name guests to getto set, and so I would track
them in the morning, sort ofbefore Uber was really a thing
(05:50):
and then I would work afterwardson stories I thought were
interesting.
I would pitch stories and I washoping that someone would take
a chance to allow me to produceand get a chance to ask tough
questions of important people,which was always a goal.
Interestingly, having a familymember in the business in a lot
of ways created a sense of notbelonging for me because I had
(06:15):
to find a way to make my ownname, and a lot of that started
with doing work that otherpeople didn't want to do.
I worked overnights for threeyears, which really gave me an
amazing opportunity to producesome of the biggest stories in
the country, write and producethem.
I also, I think I told you atthe time, I hosted a bagel
review podcast called Schmearsthe Deal, with a buddy of mine
(06:39):
named Jake, and we would goreview different bagels every
week.
So I would work overnights, Iwould go to a bagel store
somewhere in the city and I wastired and, of course,
understandably.
But it was so enjoyable to tapinto the culture and the history
and some of the familialstories of how these little
(07:03):
institutions got their start.
Actually, one of the firstplaces to give us a break was
Barney Greengrass, right up herenear Rodeph Sholom, and we went
at I don't know, I want to say9 or 10 am on a Tuesday and sat
and interviewed some of theowners and got to sit there in
this space that people fought sohard to maintain for
(07:27):
generations, and so to combineto learn from the people that
were working overnight thatworked in this very specific
industry.
Both my own and the bagel worldreally taught me the hard work
and necessary sacrifices neededto make it in a place like New
York, and that was just a veryit was a very important opening
(07:51):
salvo for me.
It's been interesting in thewake of my dad's passing, as
someone I've written dozens ofobituaries for big politicians
and celebrities and folksthroughout my career and I
thought a lot about seeing howhis story was told and a lot of
my motivation is to inattempting to get something
right and attempting to give afair shake on something and, in
(08:14):
particular, if it's a superinteresting or beautiful story,
to give it the attention andquality it deserves.
Rabbi Ben H. Spratt (08:21):
So already a decade ago, you knew that you
were a lover of stories andstorytelling, and you know the
search for the perfect story,the capturing of the perfect
story.
So when did you fall in lovewith storytelling?
Nick Fineman (08:35):
I did it by accident.
I thought I thoughtstorytelling and creativity were
something you did for fun.
It never occurred to me thatyou were able to do that as a
career.
I originally in being from DCthere are lawyers everywhere,
including both my parents havelaw degrees and my wife's
parents also have law degrees soI was like, oh, I'll be a
(08:58):
lawyer and that's the impactI'll have.
And so I went and did some workin the policy sector and I just
I couldn't stand it.
Not because it wasn't oh my God, maybe there's a world in which
I can do something like thisand it just was finding the
(09:45):
right medium and for me and forme it's been multiple the TV
medium, the podcast medium, theYouTube show media.
I mean there are so manyamazing opportunities now to
create visually in differentways that never were concepts
growing up.
So for me it was really movingtowards the thing I was most
(10:07):
interested in and the thing Ifelt most passionate about, and
I just was very lucky that I wasable to do it and find a way to
do it full time.
Rabbi Ben H. Spratt (10:14):
You know it's interesting because I think
many of us naturally inclinetowards the most linear stories
of we start at a, we go to pointb, we go to point c.
And you know it's interestingbecause I'm sure you've had in
your life plenty of people whohave looked at your, your dad,
and then seen you and be like,oh yeah, of course that was
going to be, and miss the wholepoint, which is, in some ways
(10:37):
you had to find a way that spoketo you, probably in spite,
actually, of your father, notnot, you know, not necessarily
as just like a continuation ofhim.
In some ways, I'm sure that wasa barrier for you.
And I'm wondering, you know, Ifeel like, as a person who is
constantly looking for the rightstories, those stories are
always have complexity to them.
(10:58):
I also feel like people spin offin, especially these days, in
more and more extreme directions.
The impulse can often be wellthen I'll just deliver like a
vanilla wafer, you know.
You know something that's notreally going to set anyone off,
might not be the most deliciousthing that everyone's reaching
and craving, but at least Iwon't, you know, incite people.
(11:19):
And so you know, I think that'sone move in anyone who's a
storyteller or producing contentis well, let's just give the
thing that, like, everyone'sokay with, but ultimately,
obviously that's that's notgoing to actually move people.
Maybe there are people outthere that are like craving a
vanilla wafer, but that's notmost people.
Nick Fineman (11:36):
What's so tough about the creation of the mass
creation of content which we doevery day is that you could tell
any of these stories a thousanddifferent ways, and so the
twist of the story is somethingI've been thinking about a lot
in the with the advent ofartificial intelligence and what
(11:58):
we consider to be AI right now,because so much is being
created using AI, and the toughpart about AI, when it comes to
creation of content or anything,is it's trying to create
something it thinks you willlike, that 95% of people will
like.
That's how the models are builtwhen great storytelling, great
(12:20):
TV, great shows you watch orpodcasts if they were obvious or
if they pleased people to start, they wouldn't exist or, at the
very least, they wouldn't be aspopular as they are now.
And that's I mean.
This is something you face allthe time, with sermons and with
connecting with different agegroups and different groups with
(12:41):
different backgrounds.
It's a totally it's a reallyit's hard.
We work in a very high pressureenvironment where a lot of
people are watching, and theability to lead a group without
yelling, with giving fairnessand deference, is extremely
important but isn't easy, and soI spend a lot of time feeling
(13:03):
uncomfortable and growing inthat world and learning every
day from those around me.
I mean, one of the things Ireally love about my team and
the people I interact with hereat Rodeph in my personal life
beyond here is there are a lotof people I admire and so making
decisions for groups, helpinggroups that are filled with
(13:24):
people I admire is inherentlyuncomfortable, because there are
a lot of people I want toimpress, there are a lot of
people that I am proud to doright by and try to do right by,
so there's a lot of thatpressure and growth these days
of that pressure and growththese days.
Rabbi Ben H. Spratt (13:46):
What a beautiful frame.
You know that in some ways, thewillingness to actually care
about and admire the peoplearound us in many ways
ultimately inspires us to reachhigher.
And yet I think many of us inour lives, when we think about
the people with whom we most letour hair down, it's the people
we love the most, and I thinkpart of what you're bringing is
maybe almost the opposite.
Energy there is that ultimately, the people we care most about
are also the people that we wantto have holding us in the
(14:10):
highest esteem.
So you know, along this journey, you and Summer came to meet
one another and in two prettyrelated worlds.
And Summer has her own, youknow, well-known name in the
world and is impacting andshaping stories and things.
How do you look at the personaland the professional and how do
these two things come together?
(14:30):
When my guess is dinnerconversations aren't radically
different than what's happening,you know, around the meeting
table.
Nick Fineman (14:37):
There's so much and something you and I have
spoken about there's so muchtied between career and personal
these days.
Big picture not just for me oryou or anyone listening to this
it's this idea of how do youbelong, how do you feel
fulfilled and how do you perhapsseparate the personal and the
professional in order to succeedat both, in order to succeed at
(15:04):
both.
So much of the city, country.
So many people are so definedby their jobs, which is
important.
It's important to be passionate, it's important to care.
At the same time, it'simportant to have something to
look forward to, to separate, tohang your hat on that has
nothing to do with their careeror is tangential from your
career.
For me, it's become thecommunity of the Upper West Side
.
It's become the food world inNew York, which is tangential to
(15:28):
that bagel podcast, has grownto an Instagram I run called Eat
Drink New York City.
That allows me to explore andcontinue to learn the stories.
So for us and the food part ofit is connected.
That is a passion Summer and Ishare in New York and get to
explore and a lot of the timesduring the day, we advise each
(15:53):
other professionally all thetime, but once the day is done,
we really try not to talk aboutit and separate it.
Talk about our dog.
We talk about the otherinstances and things in the
world that we find really matter.
A lot of the inspiration hascome.
I don't know if you ever readthe Metropolitan Diaries and
then in the New York Times, butthose little vignettes of these
(16:14):
moments that come with atremendous amount of gratitude
for our lives, for what we'vebeen able to accomplish, but
also for the life we've sort ofbuilt together.
So a lot of it is based ongratitude.
It's based on moments andthings that are unseen, that
aren't the obvious great momentsin a day and I will say back to
(16:35):
the grief part, it's thosemoments that have really stood
out to me as the most important.
Rabbi Ben H. Spratt (16:40):
That's beautiful.
And you know, and I think youknow, one of the blessings I
feel like in, you know, in myrole, is especially, you know,
the gift of being with peoplewho are going through trial,
travail or even death and loss.
And you know, just today we hada sanctuary filled with people
grieving a longtime member.
(17:01):
And it's interesting because inthose moments you get to hear
the real stories of people.
And you know, just today we hada sanctuary filled with people
grieving a longtime member.
And it's interesting because inthose moments you get to hear
the real stories of people.
And, you know, very rarely isthe unseen what gets shared at a
funeral.
Very rarely are the storiesthat are shared, the thing that
we spend the majority of ourenergy on in our lives.
And it really is the, you knowthose, those eternal maxims of
(17:22):
how did you make someone feel,the moments when we showed up
when no one else did, themoments of failure, the moments
of courage, the moments of love.
And, you know, thinking aboutyou right now, I'm sure,
inundated with stories aboutyour dad and maybe in some ways
that help illumine facets of himthat you didn't always get to
see.
I'm curious, what are some ofthe sparks of legacy of your
(17:45):
father that you feel like arepart of the story that you
integrate and you hold up asshiny beacons right now.
Nick Fineman (17:53):
Something I learned a lot from him.
It's something I've beenthinking about a lot when it
comes to how I interact withpeople, how I see the world.
I think he was a great lover ofcommunities, of being able to
walk around to not just makeassumptions about people or
places, and it's something heand I used to do, this thing
(18:15):
where we would walk through anycity, it didn't matter Fancy not
, fancy new if we'd been therebefore In the mornings.
We'd walk through, and citydidn't matter fancy not, fancy
new if we'd been there before Inthe mornings.
We'd walk through and observethe people and use it to get an
understanding and a feeling ofthe soul of a place.
And that's something I still do.
It's a tradition.
I still do when I'm on worktrips or personal trips and I do
(18:38):
here in New York as well.
I spend a lot of time in theearly morning walking past
Rodeph or walking in CentralPark.
You know there's so manyamazing landmarks around here
that spark joy for me and makeme think.
I think one of my big takeawayswas his connection to people,
(18:59):
that there is always somethingto learn from someone, even if
you don't, and if you assumethere's not, then you're going
to miss it and that's your lossand that's a that's been a big,
a big takeaway.
Um, it's that, and it's alsoit's mentorship that it's
important, that we've had breaksand that we've gotten
opportunities, um, and we've hadmentors, and that we're going
(19:23):
to spend them his, his time andto really give it, not just, you
know, uh, say okay, I'll dothis and and not actually help
(19:46):
someone.
He, he helped hundreds andhundreds of young journalists
and it's something that in thein in my professional circle,
I've really tried to start to doand it matters.
It matters enormously to me,because that's that's really
what legacy is.
Right Is the the people whohave learned from you and grown
from you, and he did it for anentire life, and the stories are
(20:09):
amazing and it's something thatI'm inspired to try to do as
well.
Rabbi Ben H. Spratt (20:12):
That's beautiful, Nick and I you know
they especially at a time when,I'm sure the feelings are raw
that's a powerful way to capturea legacy is how does it inspire
us?
And it is interesting to thinkabout how does being a
storyteller impact?
To what degree is it reallyabout the story and to what
degree is it the impact thestory has on people and the
(20:34):
humanness of storytelling?
We've talked about thistogether.
We're wired for cause andeffect.
We are constantly looking tosee how events and experiences
and feelings and things connecttogether.
There's a beautiful episode inthe Torah where Moses'
father-in-law Yitro, whereMoses' father-in-law comes and
(20:55):
visits and gives Moses plenty ofadvice and hangs out with the
people for a while, and later inthe Torah he ends up leaving to
go back to his homeland, toMidian, and the people cry out
to Jethro and say Please, please, please, don't leave us,
because you have become our veryeyes, and I thought that's so
(21:16):
interesting.
The way in which, for some of us, we find our belonging is when
somebody either helps open oureyes to see something that we
didn't before or helps usrealize that the way that we saw
something actually bringssomething to another person.
(21:38):
You know, and I think about thatinteresting mutual exchange of
both Jethro giving to the peoplewisdom and advice and helping
them navigate, you know, throughthe wilderness.
But the way in which they alsolet him know, even as an
outsider, that he actually had aplace of belonging, because he
had become their very eyes andthat's ultimately obviously what
it is to be a storyteller, youknow is how do we help people
look out into this universe thatis magical, wondrous, insane,
(22:00):
frustrating, painful, and findour own individual thread
through it?
How do we help people take whatcan feel like chaos and somehow
see that there are these almostimages that can resolve by
gazing into a little of thestory of another?
So, if I can throw something atyou, that's maybe a little
unfair, since you are a personwho has been swimming in
(22:22):
thousands upon thousands ofstories what do you think is the
story that people need to hearright now?
Nick Fineman (22:29):
I think to me, the story I wish people talked
about more and maybe that's acheating answer to your question
, but I think I wish peopletalked about the good things
more.
There are a lot of really badthings, don't get me wrong, and
I spent a lot of time livingthem or being in moments of them
.
I'll use a very sad example, avery sad example.
(22:56):
So one of the awards I won withthe Today Show when I was there
was for coverage of theshooting at the Tree of Life
Synagogue in Pittsburgh where mydad was bar mitzvahed, and was
a very personal story for me andone of one of the most horrible
things that can possibly happenin a community, but also a
community that rose from theashes of it.
And the way that story is nowtold upon going back, I think is
(23:22):
a very important lens on howsome of these events can turn
into positive things.
That group in Pittsburgh, inthe Squirrel Hill area, where I
have relatives from um, theirresolve, their um ability to see
good in in tragedy um has beenamazing and inspiring because I
(23:48):
think inherently as humans, umand as a group that
understandably, or any groupthat is afraid or unsure of what
the future looks like.
Your first response is to pushthings away.
I've had the chance to tell arethe ones that people either
(24:13):
didn't want to tell or wereafraid to give the opportunity
for them to be told or didn'ttake the time to explore, and I
think that's a huge mistake.
Maybe you didn't, you wouldn'tdismiss otherwise from a place
(24:35):
or from a publication or a TVchannel you wouldn't normally
watch.
And then, on top of that,practically it's supporting,
it's supporting small groups andpaying for lack of a better
word for content that you enjoy.
I've seen, even in the lastfive, 10 years, friends of mine
(24:56):
say, oh man, I wish that thingwas still around.
It's like well, did you supportit?
These groups and we've seenthey're not amazing always at
getting the funding they need.
So when it comes to local newsor local reporting or blogs or
things you like see, find waysto support them, because that's
that is often where the mostbeautiful stories and the things
you like see find ways tosupport them, because that's
that is often where the mostbeautiful stories and the things
you resonate with uh come from.
(25:18):
And you and you look atsomething like the Pittsburgh
Post-Gazette um, in Pittsburgh,that is a paper that has shrunk
in size greatly.
But the story they've told andwhat they've done um for that
community has been nothing shortof amazing and they've
illuminated these amazingstories like the one you
mentioned.
Rabbi Ben H. Spratt (25:48):
And it's very timely because I think just
yesterday they broke ground onthe new synagogue for the Tree
of Life community, and, earlierthis year, actually, Cantor De
Lowe and I were in Pittsburgh.
We were learning that three ofthe major synagogues there,
including the Tree of Lifesynagogue, were, out of
necessity, joining together andusing the same space and is out
of real profound rupture andhorror.
Also, what are the calls ofunity, and learning how to kind
of work collaboratively together.
And again, that's a narrativethat what are the pragmatic
(26:11):
elements of necessity that bringus together?
And again, it takes a goodstoryteller to look a little bit
beneath the surface of just thehorror and to something else.
And well, Nick, I'm gratefulknowing that we have people like
you that are in roles where notonly can you be looking at the
discomfort as the source of themost potent stories but also to
(26:31):
see that often what comes on theother side of the fear and the
terror is often the greatestpart of the human heart.
And you know, as you'reembarking on this grief journey
and as you are in the midst ofit, also finding the very sparks
of your dad that you find areembedded in you and the world
around you, I just want to offergratitude.
We're so grateful that yourjourney has brought us into,
brought you into Rodeph Sholomand us into connection.
(26:53):
Your journey has brought youinto Roto Shalom and us into
connection.
Nick Fineman (27:06):
It is an honor of honors to almost on a meta level
have the very one that had thepodcasting experience to even
give us the advice of the audioequipment that we're recording
on right now, to now be on as aguest.
I was so honored that you evenconsidered me as a guest for
this, because there are so manyamazing people in this community
, people that I've looked up tofor many years, people I've
spoken to in recent years sinceI've been a member.
There are so many amazingstories to tell.
I am very honored and flatteredand feel like this compared to
(27:26):
some others here, it's notworthy of your time.
So thank you for evenconsidering it and for everyone
listening.
Rabbi Ben H. Spratt (27:39):
I think everyone will universally say
back to you, Nick, you areexactly where you're supposed to
be.
Grateful, Thank you, Thank you.
Thank you for joining us andlistening to this story of
belonging.
Stay connected with us onFacebook and Instagram.
You can find me on @Ben HSpratt.
For more information about CRS,visit us online at
rodephsholomorg.
The human story is the search for
belonging, from childhood toadulthood, in joy and in
struggle, we all sit inquestions of how to make sense
of it all.
What is our place?
Why are we here?
What is our story of searching?
Join us in conversation withcommunity members each sharing
some of their own story.
(00:27):
I am Ben Spratt and this isBelonging, so I'm overjoyed to
get to be sitting with NickFunman today.
And, Nick, there are many, manyways to tell your story.
A huge CV that we can lift up.
While in the context of a182-year-old congregation, you
(00:49):
joining three years ago feelsreally recent, I will say that
already in those three years youwere one of the voices and
sources of advisement thathelped us actually even launch,
create this podcast.
So it feels like a beautifulfull circle of you immediately
stepping in the congregation andhelping us make this a reality
and now getting to be a guest onit.
(01:10):
So a few words on Nick.
So Nick is an Emmy and Murrowaward-winning journalist, tv
producer, podcast creator andeditor whose work has been
watched, streamed and downloadedbillions of times.
He works as senior producer forMSNBC and there he leads
editorial story selection,planning, control room,
production and direction ofMSNBC's 1 pm show, the Chris
(01:32):
Jansen Report.
Jansen Reports.
Feynman has written andproduced news, making
high-profile interviews, as wellas stories and breaking news
situations from the fieldcontrol room and edit bay.
Previously, Feynman worked as aproducer for shows including
the Today Show, NBC News and CBSNews Just a few things that
you've accomplished already inyour career, Nick, and I think
(01:53):
now is very evident to everyonewhy we need your wisdom in
launching this podcast.
So it is a joy to be with youtoday.
I want to just also begin byacknowledging that this
community joins so many in theworld alongside you in grieving
your father Howard and certainlythink about his legacy as
really a groundbreakingjournalist in this country, not
(02:15):
only the way in which his legacyripples through you, but the
way in which he has been one ofthe truth tellers and story
shapers of this country.
We mourn him and we join you inreally solidarity support at
this time and grateful that,even amidst the recent loss,
you're willing to be a part ofthis conversation today, Nick.
Nick Fineman (02:32):
Sure, I'm honored to be here and I don't think
just to a previous thing of whatyou said.
I don't think my joining hadanything to do with something
like this podcast started.
There's so many amazing storiesthat are part of this community
that this is just a new way offocusing them and I think that's
really amazing.
And thank you for the kindwords about my dad.
(02:53):
He got to spend some time inthis congregation and with the
congregants and always marveledhow smart of a group it was and
how thoughtful it was, and thoseare in my short time here.
I've taken those things away aswell.
Rabbi Ben H. Spratt (03:07):
Well, we're grateful that you've joined,
rolled up your sleeves and, youknow, are in the fray with us
all right now.
Nick, as you know, this reallyis a podcast that is all about
belonging and opening people'sstories so that we all can see
that not only there are dazzlingsources of inspiration just
right around us in thiscongregation, but also to remind
(03:29):
us that we're not alone.
And I was wondering if you'd bewilling to start by just
telling us a little bit aboutyour search for belonging.
Nick Fineman (03:36):
So much of belonging to me equates comfort,
and you have to be souncomfortable in order to learn
and grow that even finding aplace like Rodeph Sholom least
professionally get a chance tohave conversations that not only
(04:07):
push my own mind but otherpeople's.
How does that allow me to grow,how does that allow me to learn?
And ultimately, for me, I thinkbelonging is is connected to
understanding.
But you can't get there withoutwithout the discomfort, without
going through tough work times,without going through tough
personal times I mean youmentioned at the discomfort,
without going through tough worktimes, without going through
tough personal times.
I mean you mentioned at the topmy family's grieving right now,
(04:29):
and it's been tough in a lot ofways.
It's also been reallyeye-opening in a lot of ways to
go through a family loss and Ithink it is yet another thing
that has helped me learn andgrow and understand not only how
I myself function, but alsowhat I need around me in order
to belong, in order to feelcomfortable, in order to feel
(04:50):
that connection either with thepeople or the institutions.
Rabbi Ben H. Spratt (04:52):
And so let's dive into the story a
little bit, because I think youknow the point that you make, I
think is a profound one.
You know that it's actually inthe moments of discomfort, in
the moments when we feelstretched, stretched or maybe
even broken, that we are invitedinto that reach towards
belonging, that reach towards afeeling of restoration, of
safety, of home again.
And I'm wondering, if you can,kind of like, on the journey of
(05:15):
life, knowing that it probablyhas some peaks and valleys and
things, what were some of thosemoments where, whether willingly
or unwillingly, you were throwninto some of those the waters
of discomfort and kind of whatemerged on the other side?
Nick Fineman (05:29):
Sure, well, I think, first and foremost,
choosing to enter the TV newsworld, enter the media world,
and for me it was.
It started in at CBS news I Ibooked cars for the morning show
for the big name guests to getto set, and so I would track
them in the morning, sort ofbefore Uber was really a thing
(05:50):
and then I would work afterwardson stories I thought were
interesting.
I would pitch stories and I washoping that someone would take
a chance to allow me to produceand get a chance to ask tough
questions of important people,which was always a goal.
Interestingly, having a familymember in the business in a lot
of ways created a sense of notbelonging for me because I had
(06:15):
to find a way to make my ownname, and a lot of that started
with doing work that otherpeople didn't want to do.
I worked overnights for threeyears, which really gave me an
amazing opportunity to producesome of the biggest stories in
the country, write and producethem.
I also, I think I told you atthe time, I hosted a bagel
review podcast called Schmearsthe Deal, with a buddy of mine
(06:39):
named Jake, and we would goreview different bagels every
week.
So I would work overnights, Iwould go to a bagel store
somewhere in the city and I wastired and, of course,
understandably.
But it was so enjoyable to tapinto the culture and the history
and some of the familialstories of how these little
(07:03):
institutions got their start.
Actually, one of the firstplaces to give us a break was
Barney Greengrass, right up herenear Rodeph Sholom, and we went
at I don't know, I want to say9 or 10 am on a Tuesday and sat
and interviewed some of theowners and got to sit there in
this space that people fought sohard to maintain for
(07:27):
generations, and so to combineto learn from the people that
were working overnight thatworked in this very specific
industry.
Both my own and the bagel worldreally taught me the hard work
and necessary sacrifices neededto make it in a place like New
York, and that was just a veryit was a very important opening
(07:51):
salvo for me.
It's been interesting in thewake of my dad's passing, as
someone I've written dozens ofobituaries for big politicians
and celebrities and folksthroughout my career and I
thought a lot about seeing howhis story was told and a lot of
my motivation is to inattempting to get something
right and attempting to give afair shake on something and, in
(08:14):
particular, if it's a superinteresting or beautiful story,
to give it the attention andquality it deserves.
Rabbi Ben H. Spratt (08:21):
So already a decade ago, you knew that you
were a lover of stories andstorytelling, and you know the
search for the perfect story,the capturing of the perfect
story.
So when did you fall in lovewith storytelling?
Nick Fineman (08:35):
I did it by accident.
I thought I thoughtstorytelling and creativity were
something you did for fun.
It never occurred to me thatyou were able to do that as a
career.
I originally in being from DCthere are lawyers everywhere,
including both my parents havelaw degrees and my wife's
parents also have law degrees soI was like, oh, I'll be a
(08:58):
lawyer and that's the impactI'll have.
And so I went and did some workin the policy sector and I just
I couldn't stand it.
Not because it wasn't oh my God, maybe there's a world in which
I can do something like thisand it just was finding the
(09:45):
right medium and for me and forme it's been multiple the TV
medium, the podcast medium, theYouTube show media.
I mean there are so manyamazing opportunities now to
create visually in differentways that never were concepts
growing up.
So for me it was really movingtowards the thing I was most
(10:07):
interested in and the thing Ifelt most passionate about, and
I just was very lucky that I wasable to do it and find a way to
do it full time.
Rabbi Ben H. Spratt (10:14):
You know it's interesting because I think
many of us naturally inclinetowards the most linear stories
of we start at a, we go to pointb, we go to point c.
And you know it's interestingbecause I'm sure you've had in
your life plenty of people whohave looked at your, your dad,
and then seen you and be like,oh yeah, of course that was
going to be, and miss the wholepoint, which is, in some ways
(10:37):
you had to find a way that spoketo you, probably in spite,
actually, of your father, notnot, you know, not necessarily
as just like a continuation ofhim.
In some ways, I'm sure that wasa barrier for you.
And I'm wondering, you know, Ifeel like, as a person who is
constantly looking for the rightstories, those stories are
always have complexity to them.
(10:58):
I also feel like people spin offin, especially these days, in
more and more extreme directions.
The impulse can often be wellthen I'll just deliver like a
vanilla wafer, you know.
You know something that's notreally going to set anyone off,
might not be the most deliciousthing that everyone's reaching
and craving, but at least Iwon't, you know, incite people.
(11:19):
And so you know, I think that'sone move in anyone who's a
storyteller or producing contentis well, let's just give the
thing that, like, everyone'sokay with, but ultimately,
obviously that's that's notgoing to actually move people.
Maybe there are people outthere that are like craving a
vanilla wafer, but that's notmost people.
Nick Fineman (11:36):
What's so tough about the creation of the mass
creation of content which we doevery day is that you could tell
any of these stories a thousanddifferent ways, and so the
twist of the story is somethingI've been thinking about a lot
in the with the advent ofartificial intelligence and what
(11:58):
we consider to be AI right now,because so much is being
created using AI, and the toughpart about AI, when it comes to
creation of content or anything,is it's trying to create
something it thinks you willlike, that 95% of people will
like.
That's how the models are builtwhen great storytelling, great
(12:20):
TV, great shows you watch orpodcasts if they were obvious or
if they pleased people to start, they wouldn't exist or, at the
very least, they wouldn't be aspopular as they are now.
And that's I mean.
This is something you face allthe time, with sermons and with
connecting with different agegroups and different groups with
(12:41):
different backgrounds.
It's a totally it's a reallyit's hard.
We work in a very high pressureenvironment where a lot of
people are watching, and theability to lead a group without
yelling, with giving fairnessand deference, is extremely
important but isn't easy, and soI spend a lot of time feeling
(13:03):
uncomfortable and growing inthat world and learning every
day from those around me.
I mean, one of the things Ireally love about my team and
the people I interact with hereat Rodeph in my personal life
beyond here is there are a lotof people I admire and so making
decisions for groups, helpinggroups that are filled with
(13:24):
people I admire is inherentlyuncomfortable, because there are
a lot of people I want toimpress, there are a lot of
people that I am proud to doright by and try to do right by,
so there's a lot of thatpressure and growth these days
of that pressure and growththese days.
Rabbi Ben H. Spratt (13:46):
What a beautiful frame.
You know that in some ways, thewillingness to actually care
about and admire the peoplearound us in many ways
ultimately inspires us to reachhigher.
And yet I think many of us inour lives, when we think about
the people with whom we most letour hair down, it's the people
we love the most, and I thinkpart of what you're bringing is
maybe almost the opposite.
Energy there is that ultimately, the people we care most about
are also the people that we wantto have holding us in the
(14:10):
highest esteem.
So you know, along this journey, you and Summer came to meet
one another and in two prettyrelated worlds.
And Summer has her own, youknow, well-known name in the
world and is impacting andshaping stories and things.
How do you look at the personaland the professional and how do
these two things come together?
(14:30):
When my guess is dinnerconversations aren't radically
different than what's happening,you know, around the meeting
table.
Nick Fineman (14:37):
There's so much and something you and I have
spoken about there's so muchtied between career and personal
these days.
Big picture not just for me oryou or anyone listening to this
it's this idea of how do youbelong, how do you feel
fulfilled and how do you perhapsseparate the personal and the
professional in order to succeedat both, in order to succeed at
(15:04):
both.
So much of the city, country.
So many people are so definedby their jobs, which is
important.
It's important to be passionate, it's important to care.
At the same time, it'simportant to have something to
look forward to, to separate, tohang your hat on that has
nothing to do with their careeror is tangential from your
career.
For me, it's become thecommunity of the Upper West Side
.
It's become the food world inNew York, which is tangential to
(15:28):
that bagel podcast, has grownto an Instagram I run called Eat
Drink New York City.
That allows me to explore andcontinue to learn the stories.
So for us and the food part ofit is connected.
That is a passion Summer and Ishare in New York and get to
explore and a lot of the timesduring the day, we advise each
(15:53):
other professionally all thetime, but once the day is done,
we really try not to talk aboutit and separate it.
Talk about our dog.
We talk about the otherinstances and things in the
world that we find really matter.
A lot of the inspiration hascome.
I don't know if you ever readthe Metropolitan Diaries and
then in the New York Times, butthose little vignettes of these
(16:14):
moments that come with atremendous amount of gratitude
for our lives, for what we'vebeen able to accomplish, but
also for the life we've sort ofbuilt together.
So a lot of it is based ongratitude.
It's based on moments andthings that are unseen, that
aren't the obvious great momentsin a day and I will say back to
(16:35):
the grief part, it's thosemoments that have really stood
out to me as the most important.
Rabbi Ben H. Spratt (16:40):
That's beautiful.
And you know, and I think youknow, one of the blessings I
feel like in, you know, in myrole, is especially, you know,
the gift of being with peoplewho are going through trial,
travail or even death and loss.
And you know, just today we hada sanctuary filled with people
grieving a longtime member.
(17:01):
And it's interesting because inthose moments you get to hear
the real stories of people.
And you know, just today we hada sanctuary filled with people
grieving a longtime member.
And it's interesting because inthose moments you get to hear
the real stories of people.
And, you know, very rarely isthe unseen what gets shared at a
funeral.
Very rarely are the storiesthat are shared, the thing that
we spend the majority of ourenergy on in our lives.
And it really is the, you knowthose, those eternal maxims of
(17:22):
how did you make someone feel,the moments when we showed up
when no one else did, themoments of failure, the moments
of courage, the moments of love.
And, you know, thinking aboutyou right now, I'm sure,
inundated with stories aboutyour dad and maybe in some ways
that help illumine facets of himthat you didn't always get to
see.
I'm curious, what are some ofthe sparks of legacy of your
(17:45):
father that you feel like arepart of the story that you
integrate and you hold up asshiny beacons right now.
Nick Fineman (17:53):
Something I learned a lot from him.
It's something I've beenthinking about a lot when it
comes to how I interact withpeople, how I see the world.
I think he was a great lover ofcommunities, of being able to
walk around to not just makeassumptions about people or
places, and it's something heand I used to do, this thing
(18:15):
where we would walk through anycity, it didn't matter Fancy not
, fancy new if we'd been therebefore In the mornings.
We'd walk through, and citydidn't matter fancy not, fancy
new if we'd been there before Inthe mornings.
We'd walk through and observethe people and use it to get an
understanding and a feeling ofthe soul of a place.
And that's something I still do.
It's a tradition.
I still do when I'm on worktrips or personal trips and I do
(18:38):
here in New York as well.
I spend a lot of time in theearly morning walking past
Rodeph or walking in CentralPark.
You know there's so manyamazing landmarks around here
that spark joy for me and makeme think.
I think one of my big takeawayswas his connection to people,
(18:59):
that there is always somethingto learn from someone, even if
you don't, and if you assumethere's not, then you're going
to miss it and that's your lossand that's a that's been a big,
a big takeaway.
Um, it's that, and it's alsoit's mentorship that it's
important, that we've had breaksand that we've gotten
opportunities, um, and we've hadmentors, and that we're going
(19:23):
to spend them his, his time andto really give it, not just, you
know, uh, say okay, I'll dothis and and not actually help
(19:46):
someone.
He, he helped hundreds andhundreds of young journalists
and it's something that in thein in my professional circle,
I've really tried to start to doand it matters.
It matters enormously to me,because that's that's really
what legacy is.
Right Is the the people whohave learned from you and grown
from you, and he did it for anentire life, and the stories are
(20:09):
amazing and it's something thatI'm inspired to try to do as
well.
Rabbi Ben H. Spratt (20:12):
That's beautiful, Nick and I you know
they especially at a time when,I'm sure the feelings are raw
that's a powerful way to capturea legacy is how does it inspire
us?
And it is interesting to thinkabout how does being a
storyteller impact?
To what degree is it reallyabout the story and to what
degree is it the impact thestory has on people and the
(20:34):
humanness of storytelling?
We've talked about thistogether.
We're wired for cause andeffect.
We are constantly looking tosee how events and experiences
and feelings and things connecttogether.
There's a beautiful episode inthe Torah where Moses'
father-in-law Yitro, whereMoses' father-in-law comes and
(20:55):
visits and gives Moses plenty ofadvice and hangs out with the
people for a while, and later inthe Torah he ends up leaving to
go back to his homeland, toMidian, and the people cry out
to Jethro and say Please, please, please, don't leave us,
because you have become our veryeyes, and I thought that's so
(21:16):
interesting.
The way in which, for some of us, we find our belonging is when
somebody either helps open oureyes to see something that we
didn't before or helps usrealize that the way that we saw
something actually bringssomething to another person.
(21:38):
You know, and I think about thatinteresting mutual exchange of
both Jethro giving to the peoplewisdom and advice and helping
them navigate, you know, throughthe wilderness.
But the way in which they alsolet him know, even as an
outsider, that he actually had aplace of belonging, because he
had become their very eyes andthat's ultimately obviously what
it is to be a storyteller, youknow is how do we help people
look out into this universe thatis magical, wondrous, insane,
(22:00):
frustrating, painful, and findour own individual thread
through it?
How do we help people take whatcan feel like chaos and somehow
see that there are these almostimages that can resolve by
gazing into a little of thestory of another?
So, if I can throw something atyou, that's maybe a little
unfair, since you are a personwho has been swimming in
(22:22):
thousands upon thousands ofstories what do you think is the
story that people need to hearright now?
Nick Fineman (22:29):
I think to me, the story I wish people talked
about more and maybe that's acheating answer to your question
, but I think I wish peopletalked about the good things
more.
There are a lot of really badthings, don't get me wrong, and
I spent a lot of time livingthem or being in moments of them
.
I'll use a very sad example, avery sad example.
(22:56):
So one of the awards I won withthe Today Show when I was there
was for coverage of theshooting at the Tree of Life
Synagogue in Pittsburgh where mydad was bar mitzvahed, and was
a very personal story for me andone of one of the most horrible
things that can possibly happenin a community, but also a
community that rose from theashes of it.
And the way that story is nowtold upon going back, I think is
(23:22):
a very important lens on howsome of these events can turn
into positive things.
That group in Pittsburgh, inthe Squirrel Hill area, where I
have relatives from um, theirresolve, their um ability to see
good in in tragedy um has beenamazing and inspiring because I
(23:48):
think inherently as humans, umand as a group that
understandably, or any groupthat is afraid or unsure of what
the future looks like.
Your first response is to pushthings away.
I've had the chance to tell arethe ones that people either
(24:13):
didn't want to tell or wereafraid to give the opportunity
for them to be told or didn'ttake the time to explore, and I
think that's a huge mistake.
Maybe you didn't, you wouldn'tdismiss otherwise from a place
(24:35):
or from a publication or a TVchannel you wouldn't normally
watch.
And then, on top of that,practically it's supporting,
it's supporting small groups andpaying for lack of a better
word for content that you enjoy.
I've seen, even in the lastfive, 10 years, friends of mine
(24:56):
say, oh man, I wish that thingwas still around.
It's like well, did you supportit?
These groups and we've seenthey're not amazing always at
getting the funding they need.
So when it comes to local newsor local reporting or blogs or
things you like see, find waysto support them, because that's
that is often where the mostbeautiful stories and the things
you like see find ways tosupport them, because that's
that is often where the mostbeautiful stories and the things
you resonate with uh come from.
(25:18):
And you and you look atsomething like the Pittsburgh
Post-Gazette um, in Pittsburgh,that is a paper that has shrunk
in size greatly.
But the story they've told andwhat they've done um for that
community has been nothing shortof amazing and they've
illuminated these amazingstories like the one you
mentioned.
Rabbi Ben H. Spratt (25:48):
And it's very timely because I think just
yesterday they broke ground onthe new synagogue for the Tree
of Life community, and, earlierthis year, actually, Cantor De
Lowe and I were in Pittsburgh.
We were learning that three ofthe major synagogues there,
including the Tree of Lifesynagogue, were, out of
necessity, joining together andusing the same space and is out
of real profound rupture andhorror.
Also, what are the calls ofunity, and learning how to kind
of work collaboratively together.
And again, that's a narrativethat what are the pragmatic
(26:11):
elements of necessity that bringus together?
And again, it takes a goodstoryteller to look a little bit
beneath the surface of just thehorror and to something else.
And well, Nick, I'm gratefulknowing that we have people like
you that are in roles where notonly can you be looking at the
discomfort as the source of themost potent stories but also to
(26:31):
see that often what comes on theother side of the fear and the
terror is often the greatestpart of the human heart.
And you know, as you'reembarking on this grief journey
and as you are in the midst ofit, also finding the very sparks
of your dad that you find areembedded in you and the world
around you, I just want to offergratitude.
We're so grateful that yourjourney has brought us into,
brought you into Rodeph Sholomand us into connection.
(26:53):
Your journey has brought youinto Roto Shalom and us into
connection.
Nick Fineman (27:06):
It is an honor of honors to almost on a meta level
have the very one that had thepodcasting experience to even
give us the advice of the audioequipment that we're recording
on right now, to now be on as aguest.
I was so honored that you evenconsidered me as a guest for
this, because there are so manyamazing people in this community
, people that I've looked up tofor many years, people I've
spoken to in recent years sinceI've been a member.
There are so many amazingstories to tell.
I am very honored and flatteredand feel like this compared to
(27:26):
some others here, it's notworthy of your time.
So thank you for evenconsidering it and for everyone
listening.
Rabbi Ben H. Spratt (27:39):
I think everyone will universally say
back to you, Nick, you areexactly where you're supposed to
be.
Grateful, Thank you, Thank you.
Thank you for joining us andlistening to this story of
belonging.
Stay connected with us onFacebook and Instagram.
You can find me on @Ben HSpratt.
For more information about CRS,visit us online at
rodephsholomorg.
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