January 16, 2024 • 23 mins
Stefano Iacono has been the Assistant Cantor at Congregation Rodeph Sholom in New York since 2021. A native of San Antonio, Stefano lives in Brooklyn with his husband, Alex.
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Intro (00:04):
The human story is the search for belonging, from
childhood to adulthood, in joyand in struggle.
We all sit in questions of howto make sense of it all.
What is our place?
Why are we here?
What is our story of searching?
Join us in conversation withcommunity members each sharing
some of their own story.
(00:25):
I am Ben Spratt and this isbelonging.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (00:34):
So grateful to get to be in conversation with
you, cantor Yakinno.
So our prompt is going to berather general here, and it
really is, in understanding thatthis is a community filled with
different stories, each personcarrying a different thread and
narrative.
One of the things that weavesus together, weaves us into a
(00:56):
larger arc of Jewish community,is simply the search for
belonging.
So we'd love to begin by askingto hear from you a bit about
your personal search forbelonging.
Cantor Stefano Iacono (01:07):
So I spent a long time belonging,
pretty successfully, to anidentity that I assumed in high
school in order to hide myactual identity and the things
that I was feeling.
So, of course, you know, I wasin the closet and I knew that
(01:29):
the faith in which I had beenraised wasn't fitting anymore.
But in high school I hunkereddown and I just didn't want to
be seen.
Sometimes belonging is the bestcamouflage, and if you find
something that really fits, thatyou're good at putting on, you
(01:51):
wear it and you never take itoff.
And so it meant that I was partof groups that I would just be I
would be so embarrassed toshare about today.
You know, I practiced espousingthings that I actively speak
out against today, because thebest way to not be noticed was
(02:13):
to not keep your head down it'sactually not true but to be an
amplifier for what the peoplearound you are saying, the
people with power, the peopleyou can hide behind.
And I was swept up in it, andit was Central Texas and it was
the early 2000s, and it was theTea Party.
So I just pointed my finger thesame direction everyone else
(02:37):
was pointing theirs, I said thethings they were saying and
sometimes I tried to one up themand it was so damaging because
I wanted to belong to somethingthat wasn't actually me.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (02:52):
So, even in the ways in which that might
have felt like you wereabandoning authenticity, you
gained a sense of belonging, asense of conformity with this
larger society.
So what caused you to want to,or be willing to, abandon that
or let that crumble?
Cantor Stefano Iacono (03:13):
Until I was around 18, I prayed every
night that God would make mestraight.
And there comes a time in whichyou just don't want to fight
anymore.
And I guess I knew it was nevergoing to work.
And I just had to admit myselfthat I didn't want it to work.
(03:38):
I didn't want to be different,I just wanted a different world.
And that's when I had to startmoving away from that group.
And what was hard was, in orderto really fit in, you align
your worldview so completely,and so it meant that I had to
disentangle myself politicallyfrom things that no 17-year-old
(03:59):
in the world should actuallyfeel that tied to.
But I was convinced that I hadthis stake because I just didn't
want anybody to know the realme.
But I went to college and itwas in my first attempt.
At undergrad, I was laying inbed one day and I was praying
(04:23):
it's my favorite way to pray andI said to God I just I'm tired,
I don't want to do that anymore.
And I said we just show mesomething to say that like, if I
give in, if I come out, if I'mmyself, show me that it'll be
okay.
And I just needed something.
And it was so simple.
(04:44):
All of a sudden, the moon, youknow, the cloud shifted and a
little bit of moonlight shownthrough the window onto my chest
.
Just at that moment.
And you know, I was like.
You know, I will seize thatcoincidence and I will call it
divinity.
And I was free at that moment.
And then the next day, like Itold my friends, I'm gay and it
(05:08):
was.
It was just the strangest reliefBecause all of a sudden,
everything, my whole life, wasobviously different.
All of a sudden I'm operatingas the real me, whom I have not
been for 18 years.
So it's like it was free,you're out, you're being
yourself, and yet you've neverbeen yourself before.
(05:29):
So who are you?
Intro (05:33):
So how did your friends?
Rabbi Ben Spratt (05:34):
react?
How was the response to youfinally revealing?
Maybe the part of you that someof them were aware of, but that
the majority of the worldhadn't really borne witness to?
Cantor Stefano Iacon (05:46):
Absolutely nobody cared, absolutely nobody
.
Like almost comically it waslike a pat on the back.
People would be like, oh,that's great.
I was almost embarrassed tohave struggled so hard with
something.
But then so many of my friendswere just like, yeah, you're,
you're a few years late to theparty, dude, you know.
(06:08):
And so then when I went tosynagogue for the first time,
and in the pew in front of mewas an order of service booklet
for the week before thatadvertised pride Shabbat, I just
I realized I had exported allof the things I'd learned from
my tiny corner of religiousexperience that I'd grown up
(06:31):
with, and I had assumed thatthat was normal for every other
religious experience.
I loved that Judaism didn'toffer me a box to check off and
just say you're here, you acceptthe terms and conditions, and
now you get all of this.
And instead it said you have tobe involved a little bit more
(06:53):
than that.
You have to come and feel thiscommunity as your community and
these people as your people.
The number of times our prayerbook reminds us that we are
connected to each other withsomething I'd never experienced.
I was used to praying in avacuum.
Even in a megachurch of 3,000people.
I was alone with everyone elseand the first time I'm in a
(07:17):
synagogue being chanted at inHebrew.
That I did not understand.
I felt like I was participatingin something for the first time
.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (07:28):
I love thinking of the namesake of
being Yvrim, of being Hebrews,of being boundary crossers.
There's almost an innatequerying of identity that comes
from that kind of moniker, thatkind of namesake, and this idea
that the state of mind we'remost commanded to return to is
that of being the marginalizedperson, the outside, of the
(07:50):
stranger.
And it's interesting to thinkabout what are the challenges
that come with that livedexperience, but what are the
benefits and the blessings thatcome?
And so I'm curious for you,having experienced both what it
is to be the insider and beingthe outsider, and the insider
again, and the outsider again.
(08:11):
And a life of both of these kindof layers and tension.
What, do you see, is thebiggest challenges and the
biggest blessings that have comefrom feeling that marginalized
place?
Cantor Stefano Iacono (08:22):
I'll answer it backwards, because it
really is a unique privilege.
You know, I get to join thiscommunity, I get to stand in it
as an historian, Someone whosepast isn't connected necessarily
to an idealized expectation.
And I think more and more as acommunity we are letting go of
(08:45):
these idealized experiences ofJudaism.
But I don't know of many faithsthat in the middle of their
central blessing would stand upand say and blessed is the
righteous convert.
And so I never struggled tofind peace in who I was in
(09:06):
community.
I just kind of got to take it,take for granted that Judaism
wanted me, Just was never goingto come knocking down my door to
come get me.
As far as the other half of thequestion, the only time it's a
problem and it's verysuperficial pain, it's like a
(09:27):
pinch is when someone makes anassumption, when someone asks
about my bar mitzvah or going tosummer camp, and it's not
because that's insulting andit's not because we shouldn't
assume that all of us have birthorigins in Judaism.
It was that then I had to havethe conversation about my
(09:49):
conversion as a disclaimer toqualify my answer, and instead
I'd much rather just write offthe bat.
Let you know exactly who I amas a Jew, in the same way that I
go to a grocery store or arestaurant or I'm talking to
someone and they assume my wifeis at home, I have absolutely no
(10:14):
qualms.
I'm so proud to tell peopleabout my husband, but when I
have to begin the conversationoh actually I'm married to a man
it feels a little bit.
It feels a little bit defensive, but it's a very superficial.
It only ever smarts Because Ifind that the inclusion, the
celebration, it's been part ofJudaism day one.
(10:37):
I mean, I'm in the Torah.
It's hard to feel not part ofthe tale.
I just didn't take atraditional route.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (10:49):
It's interesting I think about just
recently in the Torah, there'sthis beautiful line where God is
saying I will be with you as aresident stranger is.
And what's fascinating is, oneof the great Hasidic
(11:13):
commentators actually lifts upthe idea that it indicates that
God is a resident stranger andit is therefore the person who
dwells at the margins thatactually is the person who is
with God most.
And I'm wondering if you'rewilling to go a little bit more
into your theological journey.
You know, thinking about thatnight as you were praying and
(11:33):
the moon beam on your chest thatyou've chosen to see as a sign.
Now, as you look back over thejourney and your search for
belonging, where have you foundGod with you in that journey?
Cantor Stefano Iacono (11:46):
I just want to start by saying it must
be so lonely to be God.
I think about that all the time.
What would you do?
What would I do?
Who is like you?
It's a rhetorical questionbecause nobody, nothing.
How lonely.
(12:08):
As a child I believed that amenat the end of a prayer was
signing off.
That's how you let God know I'mfinished.
You can move on to somebodyelse, and otherwise you were
leaving God on the line.
And just recently I haverealized I need God on the line.
(12:31):
I don't say over and out at theend of my prayers anymore,
because I'm at a point in mylife where they're never over.
I don't want God to walk alone,because I don't ever want to be
alone again.
I don't ever want to feel alone,and so I try to live in a way
(12:54):
that is like at all times, likehaving a three-way conversation,
like we're all conferencecalled in with God at all times,
because if God's a stranger andI've been a stranger and I know
how that feels I don't want herto feel left out, because it's
(13:14):
just, it's the worst.
You feel small, but not smallin a good way, like small when
you stand under the sky.
You feel small in a way thatdoesn't matter, not small in.
It's because of yourinsignificance that you're
significant, and I don't wantGod to feel that.
(13:35):
I don't want to sayconversation's over anymore.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (13:45):
I'm keeping that conversation open, keeping
a dynamic, as you areperpetually reaching out to God
and maybe God reaching out toyou.
How do you feel like yourexperiences in this journey and
searching so far play into yourcalling as a canter?
Cantor Stefano Iacono (14:03):
I want to be there for everyone else that
isn't sure where they fit,because I know that voice is
somewhere in all of us and Ijust I imagined how I felt as a
(14:24):
kid walking into any randomchurch I wasn't churchgoers and
how I felt like a kid in thecafeteria who didn't have
anybody to sit next to andthat's just.
It's the last place.
You should ever feel that way.
And I wanted to do this so that, like people who weren't sure
(14:45):
if they were doing it right,could know that their experience
was kosher, sort of like ifthey let me through this, if
they let me into seminary, okay,cool, that's proof.
If they ordained me, okay, cool, that's proof.
If I get hired somewhere, okay,that's proof.
And I just I want to keep doingthat.
(15:09):
I want to keep being a footnotein the experience of religion
that says religion is not X, yand Z easy thing to essentialize
.
Religion is complicated andsometimes beautiful and often
can include any and all of us.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (15:31):
And I love going back again to that
illustration of dynamism.
You know that I think sometimeswe bring the amazing grace type
of frame of you know that'swhere lost and now we're found.
And in reality, similar totheology, we're beings in motion
and the universe in motion.
And there is a reason why wetell our tale of being in search
(15:53):
of a homeland, of a promisedland, only to then roll right
back and be on the journey again.
And I love that you have suchaccess to that in your own
narrative, because inevitably,even those of us who in this
moment might feel a real senseof security and belonging, there
will be something that upendsthat, personal or global.
And so I wonder, when you thinkabout Rota Shalom, when you
(16:16):
think about pouring yourself nowinto community, into this great
experimental community creatingwhat do you feel like are the
necessary components for this tobe a place of belonging for
others?
Cantor Stefano Iacono (16:29):
First and foremost, I think you have to
trust that everybody wants to beon the same page, not?
That everybody's coming herefor the same thing, but that
everybody who's here hassomething they need and they're
all coming to the same place forthat need, that trust is
(16:51):
already you know you don't wantto be the only kid looking for
that spot in the cafeteria, butif you come here knowing that
everyone is sheepishly carryingtheir tray, it's suddenly not
lonely.
We're suddenly part alreadyBefore we've said hello to a
single person.
(17:12):
We're all doing the same thing.
We came here looking forunderstanding or connection.
For me that's enough.
For others, I would say thereare so many ingredients in here
that you can make whatever inthis crazy kitchen that you're
looking for.
Just knowing that there'ssomething that's pulling Jewish
(17:36):
community to itself.
Because we just have to.
I feel a lot of responsibility,because I want to deliver a
product that everyone's going togo home with and cherish.
But I know that's not actuallypossible, and so I think the
beauty of a community like thisis learning enough and finding
(17:57):
out what people need and tryingto be the greatest resource I
can to spark.
You know who's going to be thenext kid that's going to go to a
local bookstore and read everysingle book on something.
I want to be the placeholderfor someone else's passion that
they did not even realize theyhave.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (18:17):
So now, from this place and now being a
person who is trying to create aspace of belonging for others,
to try to be the person whonurtures, cultivates, supports
the next person reading everybook, maybe at the Strand,
instead of orders.
If you could go back and sayanything to your 18 year old
(18:39):
self, what would you say?
Cantor Stefano Iacono (18:42):
Oh, gosh, I'm so lucky to be where I am
today, knowing where I was notvery long ago, and there's a
part of me that thinks that,just like sort of throwing my
hands up in the air and saying,all right, I'm a Lego and let
(19:04):
God kind of how I got here,maybe I would just say, keep
doing it, I don't know, keeplooking at 18.
I was, I was pretty committedto the search.
I think I just pat myself onthe shoulder.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (19:20):
Such a powerful frame.
Again, I think sometimes theknee jerk reaction in hearing a
person say I'm grateful for thejourney is to see.
Everything on the journey isthen therefore inherently a
blessing, which is differentthan saying everything in the
(19:43):
journey was necessary forblessing, and I think that's
what I'm hearing.
Tell me if I get that wronghere.
And that, I think, in of itself,for anyone who's suffering
alone, struggling in pain,feeling a sense of abandonment
or marginalization, sounds likewhat you're suggesting is not
that that is actually the placeof blessing, but more that that
(20:04):
experience may be the necessarycomponent to reach for blessing,
to reach for belong.
So then, in a world where somany of us are doing everything
that we can to claw our way intoconformity, stagnancy, ease,
(20:25):
what would you say to the world?
Cantor Stefano Iacono (20:31):
I would say by yourself a shiny pink
tote bag and ride the trainthrough Manhattan.
There is absolutely no point inconformity.
I think if we could shedconformity, I think what's under
that is like this, this shameof sticking out, this fear that
(20:54):
you're not doing something right.
And I wonder and I can't speakto this because I wasn't born
Jewish I wonder if there'ssomething to this idea that if
you've inherited the tradition,you have more to lose if you do
it wrong.
I just you've got to do it yourway, because every great Jew
(21:20):
did so.
If you find something that islike a way to comfortably stand
out, I think you should.
You know the people that Godtalked to.
They definitely stood out.
You know, I don't know if todaywe'd choose the same people.
Our world is very different butnobody ever, you know, made a
(21:45):
glorious scene because Godcouldn't tell them, apart from
someone else.
I think if we're going to becalled, then we're going to be
people who come to ourcommunities giving of ourselves
so that we contribute to agreater good.
We have to bring our gifts.
What makes us the most us, youknow, as the Zusia could teach
(22:09):
us, but conformity, save thatfor services, when we all bow at
the same time.
That's when we get toexperience that.
That's when it's safe to for asecond be lost as an individual
in a communal experience.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (22:27):
Beautiful.
I can't imagine a better way ofcapturing what is the search
for belonging is to recognizethat ultimately, as you said, it
is a different path for everyone of us in that search, and
that sometimes we equatebelonging with conformity, only
to discover that actuallyconformity is often the very
thing that holds us back fromwalking the path that gives us
(22:49):
our sense that I, we,individually, in our own unique
way, belong.
I went off for gratitude.
You are such a blessing, stefan.
Really.
This is such what an incredibleconversation, but really I mean
with no outside of like ageneral frame you could just
dive in.
I mean, this was just filledwith wisdom and gleaning and
(23:14):
opportunities for people to beheld.
This is amazing, thank you.
Cantor Stefano Iacono (23:18):
Just trying to return what Jewish
community has always given me.
The human story is the search for belonging, from
childhood to adulthood, in joyand in struggle.
We all sit in questions of howto make sense of it all.
What is our place?
Why are we here?
What is our story of searching?
Join us in conversation withcommunity members each sharing
some of their own story.
(00:25):
I am Ben Spratt and this isbelonging.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (00:34):
So grateful to get to be in conversation with
you, cantor Yakinno.
So our prompt is going to berather general here, and it
really is, in understanding thatthis is a community filled with
different stories, each personcarrying a different thread and
narrative.
One of the things that weavesus together, weaves us into a
(00:56):
larger arc of Jewish community,is simply the search for
belonging.
So we'd love to begin by askingto hear from you a bit about
your personal search forbelonging.
Cantor Stefano Iacono (01:07):
So I spent a long time belonging,
pretty successfully, to anidentity that I assumed in high
school in order to hide myactual identity and the things
that I was feeling.
So, of course, you know, I wasin the closet and I knew that
(01:29):
the faith in which I had beenraised wasn't fitting anymore.
But in high school I hunkereddown and I just didn't want to
be seen.
Sometimes belonging is the bestcamouflage, and if you find
something that really fits, thatyou're good at putting on, you
(01:51):
wear it and you never take itoff.
And so it meant that I was partof groups that I would just be I
would be so embarrassed toshare about today.
You know, I practiced espousingthings that I actively speak
out against today, because thebest way to not be noticed was
(02:13):
to not keep your head down it'sactually not true but to be an
amplifier for what the peoplearound you are saying, the
people with power, the peopleyou can hide behind.
And I was swept up in it, andit was Central Texas and it was
the early 2000s, and it was theTea Party.
So I just pointed my finger thesame direction everyone else
(02:37):
was pointing theirs, I said thethings they were saying and
sometimes I tried to one up themand it was so damaging because
I wanted to belong to somethingthat wasn't actually me.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (02:52):
So, even in the ways in which that might
have felt like you wereabandoning authenticity, you
gained a sense of belonging, asense of conformity with this
larger society.
So what caused you to want to,or be willing to, abandon that
or let that crumble?
Cantor Stefano Iacono (03:13):
Until I was around 18, I prayed every
night that God would make mestraight.
And there comes a time in whichyou just don't want to fight
anymore.
And I guess I knew it was nevergoing to work.
And I just had to admit myselfthat I didn't want it to work.
(03:38):
I didn't want to be different,I just wanted a different world.
And that's when I had to startmoving away from that group.
And what was hard was, in orderto really fit in, you align
your worldview so completely,and so it meant that I had to
disentangle myself politicallyfrom things that no 17-year-old
(03:59):
in the world should actuallyfeel that tied to.
But I was convinced that I hadthis stake because I just didn't
want anybody to know the realme.
But I went to college and itwas in my first attempt.
At undergrad, I was laying inbed one day and I was praying
(04:23):
it's my favorite way to pray andI said to God I just I'm tired,
I don't want to do that anymore.
And I said we just show mesomething to say that like, if I
give in, if I come out, if I'mmyself, show me that it'll be
okay.
And I just needed something.
And it was so simple.
(04:44):
All of a sudden, the moon, youknow, the cloud shifted and a
little bit of moonlight shownthrough the window onto my chest
.
Just at that moment.
And you know, I was like.
You know, I will seize thatcoincidence and I will call it
divinity.
And I was free at that moment.
And then the next day, like Itold my friends, I'm gay and it
(05:08):
was.
It was just the strangest reliefBecause all of a sudden,
everything, my whole life, wasobviously different.
All of a sudden I'm operatingas the real me, whom I have not
been for 18 years.
So it's like it was free,you're out, you're being
yourself, and yet you've neverbeen yourself before.
(05:29):
So who are you?
Intro (05:33):
So how did your friends?
Rabbi Ben Spratt (05:34):
react?
How was the response to youfinally revealing?
Maybe the part of you that someof them were aware of, but that
the majority of the worldhadn't really borne witness to?
Cantor Stefano Iacon (05:46):
Absolutely nobody cared, absolutely nobody
.
Like almost comically it waslike a pat on the back.
People would be like, oh,that's great.
I was almost embarrassed tohave struggled so hard with
something.
But then so many of my friendswere just like, yeah, you're,
you're a few years late to theparty, dude, you know.
(06:08):
And so then when I went tosynagogue for the first time,
and in the pew in front of mewas an order of service booklet
for the week before thatadvertised pride Shabbat, I just
I realized I had exported allof the things I'd learned from
my tiny corner of religiousexperience that I'd grown up
(06:31):
with, and I had assumed thatthat was normal for every other
religious experience.
I loved that Judaism didn'toffer me a box to check off and
just say you're here, you acceptthe terms and conditions, and
now you get all of this.
And instead it said you have tobe involved a little bit more
(06:53):
than that.
You have to come and feel thiscommunity as your community and
these people as your people.
The number of times our prayerbook reminds us that we are
connected to each other withsomething I'd never experienced.
I was used to praying in avacuum.
Even in a megachurch of 3,000people.
I was alone with everyone elseand the first time I'm in a
(07:17):
synagogue being chanted at inHebrew.
That I did not understand.
I felt like I was participatingin something for the first time
.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (07:28):
I love thinking of the namesake of
being Yvrim, of being Hebrews,of being boundary crossers.
There's almost an innatequerying of identity that comes
from that kind of moniker, thatkind of namesake, and this idea
that the state of mind we'remost commanded to return to is
that of being the marginalizedperson, the outside, of the
(07:50):
stranger.
And it's interesting to thinkabout what are the challenges
that come with that livedexperience, but what are the
benefits and the blessings thatcome?
And so I'm curious for you,having experienced both what it
is to be the insider and beingthe outsider, and the insider
again, and the outsider again.
(08:11):
And a life of both of these kindof layers and tension.
What, do you see, is thebiggest challenges and the
biggest blessings that have comefrom feeling that marginalized
place?
Cantor Stefano Iacono (08:22):
I'll answer it backwards, because it
really is a unique privilege.
You know, I get to join thiscommunity, I get to stand in it
as an historian, Someone whosepast isn't connected necessarily
to an idealized expectation.
And I think more and more as acommunity we are letting go of
(08:45):
these idealized experiences ofJudaism.
But I don't know of many faithsthat in the middle of their
central blessing would stand upand say and blessed is the
righteous convert.
And so I never struggled tofind peace in who I was in
(09:06):
community.
I just kind of got to take it,take for granted that Judaism
wanted me, Just was never goingto come knocking down my door to
come get me.
As far as the other half of thequestion, the only time it's a
problem and it's verysuperficial pain, it's like a
(09:27):
pinch is when someone makes anassumption, when someone asks
about my bar mitzvah or going tosummer camp, and it's not
because that's insulting andit's not because we shouldn't
assume that all of us have birthorigins in Judaism.
It was that then I had to havethe conversation about my
(09:49):
conversion as a disclaimer toqualify my answer, and instead
I'd much rather just write offthe bat.
Let you know exactly who I amas a Jew, in the same way that I
go to a grocery store or arestaurant or I'm talking to
someone and they assume my wifeis at home, I have absolutely no
(10:14):
qualms.
I'm so proud to tell peopleabout my husband, but when I
have to begin the conversationoh actually I'm married to a man
it feels a little bit.
It feels a little bit defensive, but it's a very superficial.
It only ever smarts Because Ifind that the inclusion, the
celebration, it's been part ofJudaism day one.
(10:37):
I mean, I'm in the Torah.
It's hard to feel not part ofthe tale.
I just didn't take atraditional route.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (10:49):
It's interesting I think about just
recently in the Torah, there'sthis beautiful line where God is
saying I will be with you as aresident stranger is.
And what's fascinating is, oneof the great Hasidic
(11:13):
commentators actually lifts upthe idea that it indicates that
God is a resident stranger andit is therefore the person who
dwells at the margins thatactually is the person who is
with God most.
And I'm wondering if you'rewilling to go a little bit more
into your theological journey.
You know, thinking about thatnight as you were praying and
(11:33):
the moon beam on your chest thatyou've chosen to see as a sign.
Now, as you look back over thejourney and your search for
belonging, where have you foundGod with you in that journey?
Cantor Stefano Iacono (11:46):
I just want to start by saying it must
be so lonely to be God.
I think about that all the time.
What would you do?
What would I do?
Who is like you?
It's a rhetorical questionbecause nobody, nothing.
How lonely.
(12:08):
As a child I believed that amenat the end of a prayer was
signing off.
That's how you let God know I'mfinished.
You can move on to somebodyelse, and otherwise you were
leaving God on the line.
And just recently I haverealized I need God on the line.
(12:31):
I don't say over and out at theend of my prayers anymore,
because I'm at a point in mylife where they're never over.
I don't want God to walk alone,because I don't ever want to be
alone again.
I don't ever want to feel alone,and so I try to live in a way
(12:54):
that is like at all times, likehaving a three-way conversation,
like we're all conferencecalled in with God at all times,
because if God's a stranger andI've been a stranger and I know
how that feels I don't want herto feel left out, because it's
(13:14):
just, it's the worst.
You feel small, but not smallin a good way, like small when
you stand under the sky.
You feel small in a way thatdoesn't matter, not small in.
It's because of yourinsignificance that you're
significant, and I don't wantGod to feel that.
(13:35):
I don't want to sayconversation's over anymore.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (13:45):
I'm keeping that conversation open, keeping
a dynamic, as you areperpetually reaching out to God
and maybe God reaching out toyou.
How do you feel like yourexperiences in this journey and
searching so far play into yourcalling as a canter?
Cantor Stefano Iacono (14:03):
I want to be there for everyone else that
isn't sure where they fit,because I know that voice is
somewhere in all of us and Ijust I imagined how I felt as a
(14:24):
kid walking into any randomchurch I wasn't churchgoers and
how I felt like a kid in thecafeteria who didn't have
anybody to sit next to andthat's just.
It's the last place.
You should ever feel that way.
And I wanted to do this so that, like people who weren't sure
(14:45):
if they were doing it right,could know that their experience
was kosher, sort of like ifthey let me through this, if
they let me into seminary, okay,cool, that's proof.
If they ordained me, okay, cool, that's proof.
If I get hired somewhere, okay,that's proof.
And I just I want to keep doingthat.
(15:09):
I want to keep being a footnotein the experience of religion
that says religion is not X, yand Z easy thing to essentialize
.
Religion is complicated andsometimes beautiful and often
can include any and all of us.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (15:31):
And I love going back again to that
illustration of dynamism.
You know that I think sometimeswe bring the amazing grace type
of frame of you know that'swhere lost and now we're found.
And in reality, similar totheology, we're beings in motion
and the universe in motion.
And there is a reason why wetell our tale of being in search
(15:53):
of a homeland, of a promisedland, only to then roll right
back and be on the journey again.
And I love that you have suchaccess to that in your own
narrative, because inevitably,even those of us who in this
moment might feel a real senseof security and belonging, there
will be something that upendsthat, personal or global.
And so I wonder, when you thinkabout Rota Shalom, when you
(16:16):
think about pouring yourself nowinto community, into this great
experimental community creatingwhat do you feel like are the
necessary components for this tobe a place of belonging for
others?
Cantor Stefano Iacono (16:29):
First and foremost, I think you have to
trust that everybody wants to beon the same page, not?
That everybody's coming herefor the same thing, but that
everybody who's here hassomething they need and they're
all coming to the same place forthat need, that trust is
(16:51):
already you know you don't wantto be the only kid looking for
that spot in the cafeteria, butif you come here knowing that
everyone is sheepishly carryingtheir tray, it's suddenly not
lonely.
We're suddenly part alreadyBefore we've said hello to a
single person.
(17:12):
We're all doing the same thing.
We came here looking forunderstanding or connection.
For me that's enough.
For others, I would say thereare so many ingredients in here
that you can make whatever inthis crazy kitchen that you're
looking for.
Just knowing that there'ssomething that's pulling Jewish
(17:36):
community to itself.
Because we just have to.
I feel a lot of responsibility,because I want to deliver a
product that everyone's going togo home with and cherish.
But I know that's not actuallypossible, and so I think the
beauty of a community like thisis learning enough and finding
(17:57):
out what people need and tryingto be the greatest resource I
can to spark.
You know who's going to be thenext kid that's going to go to a
local bookstore and read everysingle book on something.
I want to be the placeholderfor someone else's passion that
they did not even realize theyhave.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (18:17):
So now, from this place and now being a
person who is trying to create aspace of belonging for others,
to try to be the person whonurtures, cultivates, supports
the next person reading everybook, maybe at the Strand,
instead of orders.
If you could go back and sayanything to your 18 year old
(18:39):
self, what would you say?
Cantor Stefano Iacono (18:42):
Oh, gosh, I'm so lucky to be where I am
today, knowing where I was notvery long ago, and there's a
part of me that thinks that,just like sort of throwing my
hands up in the air and saying,all right, I'm a Lego and let
(19:04):
God kind of how I got here,maybe I would just say, keep
doing it, I don't know, keeplooking at 18.
I was, I was pretty committedto the search.
I think I just pat myself onthe shoulder.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (19:20):
Such a powerful frame.
Again, I think sometimes theknee jerk reaction in hearing a
person say I'm grateful for thejourney is to see.
Everything on the journey isthen therefore inherently a
blessing, which is differentthan saying everything in the
(19:43):
journey was necessary forblessing, and I think that's
what I'm hearing.
Tell me if I get that wronghere.
And that, I think, in of itself,for anyone who's suffering
alone, struggling in pain,feeling a sense of abandonment
or marginalization, sounds likewhat you're suggesting is not
that that is actually the placeof blessing, but more that that
(20:04):
experience may be the necessarycomponent to reach for blessing,
to reach for belong.
So then, in a world where somany of us are doing everything
that we can to claw our way intoconformity, stagnancy, ease,
(20:25):
what would you say to the world?
Cantor Stefano Iacono (20:31):
I would say by yourself a shiny pink
tote bag and ride the trainthrough Manhattan.
There is absolutely no point inconformity.
I think if we could shedconformity, I think what's under
that is like this, this shameof sticking out, this fear that
(20:54):
you're not doing something right.
And I wonder and I can't speakto this because I wasn't born
Jewish I wonder if there'ssomething to this idea that if
you've inherited the tradition,you have more to lose if you do
it wrong.
I just you've got to do it yourway, because every great Jew
(21:20):
did so.
If you find something that islike a way to comfortably stand
out, I think you should.
You know the people that Godtalked to.
They definitely stood out.
You know, I don't know if todaywe'd choose the same people.
Our world is very different butnobody ever, you know, made a
(21:45):
glorious scene because Godcouldn't tell them, apart from
someone else.
I think if we're going to becalled, then we're going to be
people who come to ourcommunities giving of ourselves
so that we contribute to agreater good.
We have to bring our gifts.
What makes us the most us, youknow, as the Zusia could teach
(22:09):
us, but conformity, save thatfor services, when we all bow at
the same time.
That's when we get toexperience that.
That's when it's safe to for asecond be lost as an individual
in a communal experience.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (22:27):
Beautiful.
I can't imagine a better way ofcapturing what is the search
for belonging is to recognizethat ultimately, as you said, it
is a different path for everyone of us in that search, and
that sometimes we equatebelonging with conformity, only
to discover that actuallyconformity is often the very
thing that holds us back fromwalking the path that gives us
(22:49):
our sense that I, we,individually, in our own unique
way, belong.
I went off for gratitude.
You are such a blessing, stefan.
Really.
This is such what an incredibleconversation, but really I mean
with no outside of like ageneral frame you could just
dive in.
I mean, this was just filledwith wisdom and gleaning and
(23:14):
opportunities for people to beheld.
This is amazing, thank you.
Cantor Stefano Iacono (23:18):
Just trying to return what Jewish
community has always given me.
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