March 14, 2024 • 23 mins
In our latest podcast episode, we embark on a heartfelt exploration with Nikki Fisher, a veteran, mother, and leader in the Rodeph Sholom School community. Nikki shares her journey from growing up in Chicago and Toledo, to the structured ranks of military life, and the continuous battle with racial and gender expectations. This candid conversation will leave you with a profound appreciation for the nuances of belonging and inspire you to embrace your true self.
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Episode Transcript
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Rabbi Ben Spratt (00:04):
The human story is the search for
belonging.
From childhood to adulthood, injoy and in struggle, we all sit
in questions of how to makesense of it all.
What is our place?
Why are we here?
What is our story of searching?
Join us in conversation withcommunity members each sharing
some of their own story.
(00:25):
I am Ben Spratt and this isbelonging.
It is truly a pleasure today tobe sitting with a friend,
fellow community member, NikkiFisher.
Nikki is a veteran, a super momand a leader in our Rodeph
(00:49):
Sholom School of Community, theproud wife of Adam, the even
more proud mother of Gideon, whois an eighth grader right now
at Rodeph Sholom School.
This is an opportunity for us,Nikki, to get to take many of
our little conversations andbring it into a slightly
different forum.
We would love to begin ifyou're willing to explore what
(01:13):
is your search for belonging.
Nikki Fisher (01:16):
Funny enough, I had this conversation two weeks
ago, which is very weird.
Belonging for me in thebeginning was conforming to
everyone else, especiallyleaving Chicago and moving to
Toledo.
It was shocking to see howpeople are treated in Toledo
(01:37):
versus Chicago.
In Chicago, especially with myparents, we knew everybody and
everyone.
So there was never this onlyblack and white, like it is in
Toledo.
Even the Spanish wereconsidered white.
Going there and being lookeddown upon and being in Chicago
and it's just like you're, likeeveryone else.
(01:59):
It was very shocking andannoying.
I had to conform to it becauseyou have to go along, to get
along.
When I was 13, something clickedand it was just like I'm not
like them.
I was never like them.
(02:20):
I don't sound like them, I'mnothing like them.
I'm going to be me and Idecided to just be Nikki.
The Nikki that won't be bullied, the Nikki that knows that she
doesn't have a lot of money andthat's okay.
You know what I mean, becauseI'm not really into fashion and
I went to an all-girl Catholicschool high school and they had
(02:44):
money.
So the socioeconomic issue wasthere too.
So you have the racial issueand the socioeconomic issue, but
also with that I also had thewhole.
I'm not black enough because Ididn't sound like they did it to
Toledo, you know, of courseit's like, oh well, she sounds
white or she's trying to be thisand trying to be that.
I'm like, yeah, no, I'm justbeing Nikki.
(03:06):
After I graduated, went tocollege Same issue, more the
racial side, but from the blackcommunity and it was one girl
I'm just calling her Queen B.
She told all the other blackstudents at the college I went
to Case Western, you know, andyou know, don't talk to her,
(03:29):
she's not good enough, whatever,right.
And it wasn't till that was myfreshman year and it wasn't
until my sophomore year, when Istarted hanging out with Adam,
that they were like, oh no, wegot to get her back into the
community.
It was just like you kicked meout of the community, you didn't
like me, I wasn't good enough,you know.
So, again, screw you.
(03:49):
I'm just Nikki, just I didn'thave the patience nor the energy
to have to prove who I am.
So that was college and youknow, of course I ended up
burying Adam and moving to NewYork, and New York is the place
I actually felt comfortable,because no one cared, because
you had so many different typeshere, you know, and of course
(04:11):
it's like early 2000s, so youhad only people from the 90s
would understand this.
But like the alternative people, the hip hop people, and even
like among the black community,here they were fine with me,
even though sometimes they werewonders like so, are you West
Indian?
Are you like actually Ethiopianor anything like that, and just
(04:32):
like no, they're like okay,cool, but they accepted me for
me, which?
And then with the military, Ididn't have to deal with that
from a racial standpoint.
I had to deal with it from afeminine standpoint, because in
the military, being a female,you have to be tough, you can't
be emotional, you can't haveyour heart and your sleeve.
(04:53):
You know, you have to belogical, because most of the men
are logical that's a joke,they're not.
Now that I have a son who'smulti-racial, he has to deal
with that and he's dealing withit on both ends, socioeconomic
(05:18):
and racial, and he is trying tofigure it out.
And when I told him my story oflike how it, you know, moving
from Chicago to Toledo and notbeing black enough, he kept
looking at me like really,you're not black enough.
It's like, yeah, I know,because he's looking at my skin
color.
He's like how is that not blackenough?
(05:39):
It's like I get that.
But it's not just that, it'slike how you speak, what you do,
you know.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (05:46):
I mean it's incredible in the heat to think
about the experience of you atGideon's age.
You know, moving to Toledo andthe experience that for most of
us the most awkward, challenging, difficult years of our lives
often are those middle schoolyears feeling a sense of
rejection from pretty much everydirection that you turned, and
(06:10):
now to see your son growing upwith experiences and privileges
that you didn't have and seesome of those same struggles
come forward.
So I'm curious for you how isGideon receiving some of your
lived experience as he's livinghis own?
Nikki Fisher (06:28):
Funny.
He's like I take everythingwith a grain of salt that you
and Abba are saying, because Iwant to do things for myself and
by myself, which I understand,that he wants to be independent,
so I'm letting him figure itout.
And he has actually.
There was a moment where he didnot and it affected him badly,
(06:56):
but now he's better.
And the summer program he iswith lots of different types of
kids, different races, differentbackgrounds, different
everything, and he loves everyminute of it.
And he's so happy when he comeshome he's like telling me all
(07:20):
this happened, this happened,this happened, you know.
And he's also with his friendgroup from here at Rodeph.
He's like telling them what'sgoing on, you know.
So it's like if he could, hecan, he would love to integrate
all of it and just enjoyspending time with all these
people.
You know what I mean.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (07:39):
It's such a powerful statement to be able to
bring forward, but particularlyat an age where there's
typically so much insecurity, somuch, you know, hormones,
raging, puberty, everyone'slooking and being exposed to a
more adult world, but not ableto actually play in it yet, but
pretending to.
And you know, for me it was thetime when I finally was public
(07:59):
about my Jewishness and I had myfriends turn on me and beat me
up.
And when you go back and thinkabout, you know, life in Toledo,
did your parents let you figureit out, like were you the one
who came to your own philosophyof I'm just going to be Nicky?
Nikki Fisher (08:12):
Yes, that was all me.
I remember I was walking my dogDino.
He was a little venture-pinsherand I'm looking at myself and
just like what the hell am Idoing?
This is not me, this is I don'tfeel comfortable in my own skin
and I hate this.
(08:32):
And so I just stopped and I wasjust like I'm going to be Nicky
and that's it.
It's like they want me.
Like you're black, you'resupposed to be like this, you're
supposed to talk like this,you're supposed to walk like
this, and it's just like.
That's not who I am.
I like lots of things.
I know lots of people.
(08:52):
I don't want to stay with justone community, especially when I
was exposed to so manydifferent types of communities,
you know, and so many differenttypes of people.
Like, my first best friend wasChinese.
Her name was Joanne when I wasyounger.
And then my other best friendswas Chastity of Black Girl,
(09:14):
lizzie of Puerto Rican andLaTanya.
She was mixed.
We think she was black andFilipino.
You know what I mean.
Just to go to Toledo with justblack and white, just like?
No, I can't do that.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (09:32):
And in moving to New York you experienced a
city where there was acelebration, at least to some
degree, of so many differentflavors and sounds and cultures,
Did it immediately feel likethis was home?
Nikki Fisher (09:46):
Crazy enough.
Yes, you're keeping yourculture, you know your home in
your heart, even though you'renot there, and then you want to
share it with other people, youknow, like this is the food,
this is the flavor, this is whatwe like to do.
You know, that's what I loveabout New York they don't put
you in a box.
(10:06):
You can be who you want to be.
So if you are Dominican in yourtrans, you can be that.
You know what I mean.
If you're trying to figureyourself out, that's okay.
There are people here who willhelp you to figure out who you
are, without judgment.
And that's the best part that Iloved about New York City is
(10:29):
without judgment.
What is it New York?
They have Afro punk concertsand a big thing, and my thing is
just like, really, and nojudgment, no, nothing.
If you like this music, comejam with us.
How awesome is that, you know?
Rabbi Ben Spratt (10:49):
So I'm thinking for a moment about the
person whose parents hail fromMississippi and Louisiana, grew
up first in Chicago and thenToledo, and it probably never
imagined that in her adult lifeshe would be connected to not
just one but two Jewishcommunities, at least in the
context of the Rodeph Sholomcommunity.
(11:09):
While we have a number ofpeople who have served in the
military, it is not the typicaltrope of many people, at least
in this community.
Can you tell us a little bit ofthe journey that prompted you
to serve and whatever part ofthat experience you're willing
to lift up?
Nikki Fisher (11:25):
Okay, I joined because I had to pay student
loans.
To join the military you haveto take a test, the ASVAB, and
you get so many MOS'soccupations that you can choose
from.
The three were working withcomputers, intelligence and
working in medical field.
My dad works with computers, mymom's nurse practitioner now,
(11:48):
but she's in medical field.
So what?
Of course, am I gonna do my ownthing?
Intelligence that wasinteresting.
That's where I learned that youcan't have your heart in your
sleeve.
They want you to be tough, notemotional.
I learned shooting.
You're like, oh, think ofsomeone you don't like, or
(12:08):
whatever have you always missed.
But when I let everything goand I seriously let everything
go I hit the target.
So no motion.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (12:20):
So, through training, service deployment,
what gave you a feeling ofbelonging when it was your heart
, back home, you know, what didyou hold on to to help you know,
give you a little bit of abeacon through, I'm sure, things
that ranged in feeling andexperience.
Nikki Fisher (12:42):
You know what it was?
Her name is McCroy.
I call her McCroy, sergeantMcCroy.
She was the one, especiallyduring the deployment.
At first we didn't like oneanother at all, but then we
ended up being in a tenttogether, a six man tent, just
(13:04):
six of us females, and we got toknow one another and she
understood me.
She was much older than me butshe understood me, so whenever
it's like I'm losing my crap,she'd be like fish, calm down,
it's OK.
She made me like feel like Iwas one, not crazy for my
(13:28):
thoughts and my emotions, butshe didn't make me feel like I
was a hundreds.
It's just like it's, it's thewhole thing.
Like Nikki, you can be Nikki.
It's OK to be Nikki, even here,even when you have the uniform
on, it's OK to be you.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (13:46):
Isn't incredible how sometimes it's
just one person you know,looking you in the eye, saying
your feelings are real, you area person that's needed, you
belong is sometimes all it takesto change the experience.
And while it doesn'tnecessarily in that instant
(14:07):
change the entire world, justgiving that little touch point
that says I'm not spitting offand you know the orbit, I'm not
some alien to this planet.
Nikki Fisher (14:18):
Can I tell you something?
Rabbi Ben Spratt (14:20):
Please.
Nikki Fisher (14:21):
You did that too here, broder's small community,
you know, it's mainly Upper WestSide people, you know, and Adam
, he's Jewish, so he knows allthe ins and outs.
I'm not that, but talking withyou, I have felt seen in this
community.
It was you and Susie, SusieNewman for me and what I've seen
(14:46):
observe, like being Jewish,you're a target, you mean.
So being in a Jewish schoolnear a Jewish synagogue is like
holy crap, it's a target andit's like what, how do I deal
with this?
How do I?
You know, that's like themilitary brain kicking in and
you guys calling me down andlike it's OK and you know, how
(15:08):
are you?
What's going on?
You know and and not seen for,oh, maybe she can convert.
It's like seen for that's Nikki, you know.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (15:18):
Well, I also know the feeling is mutual,
Nikki, because you know, inthose moments when I'd ask you,
how are you doing, instead ofjust giving the usual social
script of fine, how are you, youwould usually give me something
authentic and so you alsoshared.
Some of you know this is Nikki,and and I think about how many
of us we spend our days, I spendmy day, and you know, in the
(15:41):
orbits of hundreds or thousandsof people and we're all spinning
, disconnected, and thatsometimes the very thing that
we're looking for is truly assimple.
As am I willing to just stoplong enough to look somebody in
the eye to ask a question andactually mean the question, or
have a question asked of me, andbe willing to respond to
(16:02):
something authentic?
And you know I'm going back toyour statement about the magic
of New York City is how do wefeel enough integrity, enough
pride in who we are in order tobe willing to share that with
the world, and enough humilityand curiosity that we're willing
to ask an inquirer to another,and that's the magic.
Nikki Fisher (16:21):
So funny enough.
That is like kind of like aMidwestern thing.
And how are you like generally,how are you?
And getting picked up on that?
And so like he'll go intostores or you know, talk to
waitresses or whatever it's like.
So how are you doing?
And you know it takes him backand they'll answer.
(16:45):
It's like really, and he'lllike have a conversation with
them and it's like you can seetheir heads like wait, this
young kid is asking me how I'mdoing and he's genuine about it.
You know what I mean and I knowthat's me because I do it all
the time, because I know if I'mgoing crazy in this world, I
know other people are.
So sometimes you just need thatlittle spark, just for you know
(17:09):
.
A minute, five minutes,whatever you know.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (17:14):
And so I want to know how did the person who
had first walked into thisRodeph Sholom community feeling
very much like the outsider cometo be the person who is
volunteering left and right andhelping to lead and connect and
cohere this community together?
How did that happen?
Nikki Fisher (17:30):
Some of the moms that I met were really cool and
they were like, hey, you want tohelp out with this?
I'm like sure, and you know Iwant to volunteer for this, sure
, I'll hang out with you.
You know no big deal and itjust kind of went from there
Because it's like, hey, if I canhelp them, then maybe they can
spend more time with the kids.
You know, because I wasvolunteering at the library and
(17:52):
I like books, that's just.
I love having books around me.
So that was cool.
And you know I'm talking withother moms and we're talking
about all the ups and downs oflife and kids and everything,
and so, again, that's thatbelong, because it's like I'm
not the only one that's dealingwith this craziness.
You know what I mean and likehow the hell do I get this kid
to sleep?
How the hell do I get this kidto eat the right foods?
(18:13):
You know, and like we're allsharing our you know techniques
and everything.
When I look back at my life, myparents did the same thing too.
My dad was the president of thePTA and you know he helped out
with so many things, and so tome it's just like that's natural
(18:34):
.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (18:35):
And I think it touches on another important
piece of belonging, which youknow, is that some of belonging
is something that we build, youknow I think this is some of
what you're touching on is.
I think a lot of us go throughour life waiting for someone
else to give some likecoordination ceremony, or like
the magic wand that annoys andsays Nicky, you now belong and
(18:58):
in reality a lot of it actuallyis in the moments when we are
least obsessed with the questionand instead feeling there's a
need in the world and be willingto be the one that rolls up our
sleeves and dives in and saysI've got something that I can do
to help me that need and alongthe way, suddenly discovered
that we've been building ourpath of belonging all along.
(19:18):
And I, you know.
If I can ask just one morequestion, is you know you get to
see in Gideon already, in aremarkable I mean dazzling human
being.
I'm obviously I'm a huge fan andfeel grateful that I got to
publicly embarrass him a littlebit.
Yes, yes, and at his barmitzvah, you know, but if you
(19:39):
were going to think of some ofthe seeds that you hope that you
and Adam are planting in Gideon, knowing that ultimately,
they're going to grow in waysthat you can never foresee.
But what are some of thoseseeds?
Oh, there, you talked about thespark.
You know where's some of thesparks that you're hoping you're
helping to place in his ownheart.
Nikki Fisher (19:57):
Except people for who they are.
That's the one seed that wehave been cultivating with him
and so far he has, but we'll seewhen he gets to high school
that's going to be hold off fromballgame, as he, you know,
moves on with his life and hashis own family and, you know, do
(20:18):
whatever it is that he wants todo that makes him happy.
You know where he's all glowyand stuff.
That's what I want, you know.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (20:28):
Well, I do think you have, in your journey
being one that has brought youinto seeing some of the darker
shadows of humanity and seeingsome of the frailty and
limitations of people and seeinghow much fear actually is the
poison to that very spark.
(20:49):
You know, creating anenvironment where Gideon or any
of our youth can feel celebratedfor the unique spark they bring
into this world, the uniquegift that they are.
It's not the antidote toeverything, but it certainly is
the essential foundation of theessential ingredient to the
world getting better.
And then the challenge is likehow do we share enough, collide
(21:14):
enough, have courageous enoughconversations that we can move
beyond the fear?
And you know, you see, we alldance around the harder topics.
But I think it takes thecourageous person willing to
kind of like, speak to them alittle bit, to name them, that
can finally open some of thepaths that have been closed for
all of us.
And you know, I know, forGideon, you know he is always
(21:34):
that person for years and yearshas been that one, willing to
raise his hand and ask the hardquestion and dive into the hard
topic.
Nikki Fisher (21:40):
Well, a friend of ours.
She would say you have to havethat courageous, courageous
conversation, and in her case itwas talking about sex and
everything.
But it's also just life,especially in New York.
You see all of it, from therichest to like the poorest
sleeping on the street.
(22:01):
You know what I mean.
You see all of it and you can'tignore it anymore.
So it's just like how do youwant to live and how do you want
to get there?
Do you want to get there thelike jacked up way, or do you
want to get there where you'rehelping and taking people with
you?
Rabbi Ben Spratt (22:19):
You know what I mean Nikki, I just want to say
thank you.
Um, it's really I mean, justforget the recording and the
podcast for a second just a real, genuine gift to get.
I mean so much wisdom.
You just keep touts and, um, Imean holy, wow, you took us into
some really important areas andthank you for your willingness
to do that.
Nikki Fisher (22:40):
I hope so.
Thank you for having me.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (22:46):
Thank you for joining us and listening to this
story of belonging.
Stay connected with us onFacebook and Instagram.
You can find me on Twitter atBenHSpratt.
For more information about CRS,visit us at rodephsholom.
org.
The human story is the search for
belonging.
From childhood to adulthood, injoy and in struggle, we all sit
in questions of how to makesense of it all.
What is our place?
Why are we here?
What is our story of searching?
Join us in conversation withcommunity members each sharing
some of their own story.
(00:25):
I am Ben Spratt and this isbelonging.
It is truly a pleasure today tobe sitting with a friend,
fellow community member, NikkiFisher.
Nikki is a veteran, a super momand a leader in our Rodeph
(00:49):
Sholom School of Community, theproud wife of Adam, the even
more proud mother of Gideon, whois an eighth grader right now
at Rodeph Sholom School.
This is an opportunity for us,Nikki, to get to take many of
our little conversations andbring it into a slightly
different forum.
We would love to begin ifyou're willing to explore what
(01:13):
is your search for belonging.
Nikki Fisher (01:16):
Funny enough, I had this conversation two weeks
ago, which is very weird.
Belonging for me in thebeginning was conforming to
everyone else, especiallyleaving Chicago and moving to
Toledo.
It was shocking to see howpeople are treated in Toledo
(01:37):
versus Chicago.
In Chicago, especially with myparents, we knew everybody and
everyone.
So there was never this onlyblack and white, like it is in
Toledo.
Even the Spanish wereconsidered white.
Going there and being lookeddown upon and being in Chicago
and it's just like you're, likeeveryone else.
(01:59):
It was very shocking andannoying.
I had to conform to it becauseyou have to go along, to get
along.
When I was 13, something clickedand it was just like I'm not
like them.
I was never like them.
(02:20):
I don't sound like them, I'mnothing like them.
I'm going to be me and Idecided to just be Nikki.
The Nikki that won't be bullied, the Nikki that knows that she
doesn't have a lot of money andthat's okay.
You know what I mean, becauseI'm not really into fashion and
I went to an all-girl Catholicschool high school and they had
(02:44):
money.
So the socioeconomic issue wasthere too.
So you have the racial issueand the socioeconomic issue, but
also with that I also had thewhole.
I'm not black enough because Ididn't sound like they did it to
Toledo, you know, of courseit's like, oh well, she sounds
white or she's trying to be thisand trying to be that.
I'm like, yeah, no, I'm justbeing Nikki.
(03:06):
After I graduated, went tocollege Same issue, more the
racial side, but from the blackcommunity and it was one girl
I'm just calling her Queen B.
She told all the other blackstudents at the college I went
to Case Western, you know, andyou know, don't talk to her,
(03:29):
she's not good enough, whatever,right.
And it wasn't till that was myfreshman year and it wasn't
until my sophomore year, when Istarted hanging out with Adam,
that they were like, oh no, wegot to get her back into the
community.
It was just like you kicked meout of the community, you didn't
like me, I wasn't good enough,you know.
So, again, screw you.
(03:49):
I'm just Nikki, just I didn'thave the patience nor the energy
to have to prove who I am.
So that was college and youknow, of course I ended up
burying Adam and moving to NewYork, and New York is the place
I actually felt comfortable,because no one cared, because
you had so many different typeshere, you know, and of course
(04:11):
it's like early 2000s, so youhad only people from the 90s
would understand this.
But like the alternative people, the hip hop people, and even
like among the black community,here they were fine with me,
even though sometimes they werewonders like so, are you West
Indian?
Are you like actually Ethiopianor anything like that, and just
(04:32):
like no, they're like okay,cool, but they accepted me for
me, which?
And then with the military, Ididn't have to deal with that
from a racial standpoint.
I had to deal with it from afeminine standpoint, because in
the military, being a female,you have to be tough, you can't
be emotional, you can't haveyour heart and your sleeve.
(04:53):
You know, you have to belogical, because most of the men
are logical that's a joke,they're not.
Now that I have a son who'smulti-racial, he has to deal
with that and he's dealing withit on both ends, socioeconomic
(05:18):
and racial, and he is trying tofigure it out.
And when I told him my story oflike how it, you know, moving
from Chicago to Toledo and notbeing black enough, he kept
looking at me like really,you're not black enough.
It's like, yeah, I know,because he's looking at my skin
color.
He's like how is that not blackenough?
(05:39):
It's like I get that.
But it's not just that, it'slike how you speak, what you do,
you know.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (05:46):
I mean it's incredible in the heat to think
about the experience of you atGideon's age.
You know, moving to Toledo andthe experience that for most of
us the most awkward, challenging, difficult years of our lives
often are those middle schoolyears feeling a sense of
rejection from pretty much everydirection that you turned, and
(06:10):
now to see your son growing upwith experiences and privileges
that you didn't have and seesome of those same struggles
come forward.
So I'm curious for you how isGideon receiving some of your
lived experience as he's livinghis own?
Nikki Fisher (06:28):
Funny.
He's like I take everythingwith a grain of salt that you
and Abba are saying, because Iwant to do things for myself and
by myself, which I understand,that he wants to be independent,
so I'm letting him figure itout.
And he has actually.
There was a moment where he didnot and it affected him badly,
(06:56):
but now he's better.
And the summer program he iswith lots of different types of
kids, different races, differentbackgrounds, different
everything, and he loves everyminute of it.
And he's so happy when he comeshome he's like telling me all
(07:20):
this happened, this happened,this happened, you know.
And he's also with his friendgroup from here at Rodeph.
He's like telling them what'sgoing on, you know.
So it's like if he could, hecan, he would love to integrate
all of it and just enjoyspending time with all these
people.
You know what I mean.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (07:39):
It's such a powerful statement to be able to
bring forward, but particularlyat an age where there's
typically so much insecurity, somuch, you know, hormones,
raging, puberty, everyone'slooking and being exposed to a
more adult world, but not ableto actually play in it yet, but
pretending to.
And you know, for me it was thetime when I finally was public
(07:59):
about my Jewishness and I had myfriends turn on me and beat me
up.
And when you go back and thinkabout, you know, life in Toledo,
did your parents let you figureit out, like were you the one
who came to your own philosophyof I'm just going to be Nicky?
Nikki Fisher (08:12):
Yes, that was all me.
I remember I was walking my dogDino.
He was a little venture-pinsherand I'm looking at myself and
just like what the hell am Idoing?
This is not me, this is I don'tfeel comfortable in my own skin
and I hate this.
(08:32):
And so I just stopped and I wasjust like I'm going to be Nicky
and that's it.
It's like they want me.
Like you're black, you'resupposed to be like this, you're
supposed to talk like this,you're supposed to walk like
this, and it's just like.
That's not who I am.
I like lots of things.
I know lots of people.
(08:52):
I don't want to stay with justone community, especially when I
was exposed to so manydifferent types of communities,
you know, and so many differenttypes of people.
Like, my first best friend wasChinese.
Her name was Joanne when I wasyounger.
And then my other best friendswas Chastity of Black Girl,
(09:14):
lizzie of Puerto Rican andLaTanya.
She was mixed.
We think she was black andFilipino.
You know what I mean.
Just to go to Toledo with justblack and white, just like?
No, I can't do that.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (09:32):
And in moving to New York you experienced a
city where there was acelebration, at least to some
degree, of so many differentflavors and sounds and cultures,
Did it immediately feel likethis was home?
Nikki Fisher (09:46):
Crazy enough.
Yes, you're keeping yourculture, you know your home in
your heart, even though you'renot there, and then you want to
share it with other people, youknow, like this is the food,
this is the flavor, this is whatwe like to do.
You know, that's what I loveabout New York they don't put
you in a box.
(10:06):
You can be who you want to be.
So if you are Dominican in yourtrans, you can be that.
You know what I mean.
If you're trying to figureyourself out, that's okay.
There are people here who willhelp you to figure out who you
are, without judgment.
And that's the best part that Iloved about New York City is
(10:29):
without judgment.
What is it New York?
They have Afro punk concertsand a big thing, and my thing is
just like, really, and nojudgment, no, nothing.
If you like this music, comejam with us.
How awesome is that, you know?
Rabbi Ben Spratt (10:49):
So I'm thinking for a moment about the
person whose parents hail fromMississippi and Louisiana, grew
up first in Chicago and thenToledo, and it probably never
imagined that in her adult lifeshe would be connected to not
just one but two Jewishcommunities, at least in the
context of the Rodeph Sholomcommunity.
(11:09):
While we have a number ofpeople who have served in the
military, it is not the typicaltrope of many people, at least
in this community.
Can you tell us a little bit ofthe journey that prompted you
to serve and whatever part ofthat experience you're willing
to lift up?
Nikki Fisher (11:25):
Okay, I joined because I had to pay student
loans.
To join the military you haveto take a test, the ASVAB, and
you get so many MOS'soccupations that you can choose
from.
The three were working withcomputers, intelligence and
working in medical field.
My dad works with computers, mymom's nurse practitioner now,
(11:48):
but she's in medical field.
So what?
Of course, am I gonna do my ownthing?
Intelligence that wasinteresting.
That's where I learned that youcan't have your heart in your
sleeve.
They want you to be tough, notemotional.
I learned shooting.
You're like, oh, think ofsomeone you don't like, or
(12:08):
whatever have you always missed.
But when I let everything goand I seriously let everything
go I hit the target.
So no motion.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (12:20):
So, through training, service deployment,
what gave you a feeling ofbelonging when it was your heart
, back home, you know, what didyou hold on to to help you know,
give you a little bit of abeacon through, I'm sure, things
that ranged in feeling andexperience.
Nikki Fisher (12:42):
You know what it was?
Her name is McCroy.
I call her McCroy, sergeantMcCroy.
She was the one, especiallyduring the deployment.
At first we didn't like oneanother at all, but then we
ended up being in a tenttogether, a six man tent, just
(13:04):
six of us females, and we got toknow one another and she
understood me.
She was much older than me butshe understood me, so whenever
it's like I'm losing my crap,she'd be like fish, calm down,
it's OK.
She made me like feel like Iwas one, not crazy for my
(13:28):
thoughts and my emotions, butshe didn't make me feel like I
was a hundreds.
It's just like it's, it's thewhole thing.
Like Nikki, you can be Nikki.
It's OK to be Nikki, even here,even when you have the uniform
on, it's OK to be you.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (13:46):
Isn't incredible how sometimes it's
just one person you know,looking you in the eye, saying
your feelings are real, you area person that's needed, you
belong is sometimes all it takesto change the experience.
And while it doesn'tnecessarily in that instant
(14:07):
change the entire world, justgiving that little touch point
that says I'm not spitting offand you know the orbit, I'm not
some alien to this planet.
Nikki Fisher (14:18):
Can I tell you something?
Rabbi Ben Spratt (14:20):
Please.
Nikki Fisher (14:21):
You did that too here, broder's small community,
you know, it's mainly Upper WestSide people, you know, and Adam
, he's Jewish, so he knows allthe ins and outs.
I'm not that, but talking withyou, I have felt seen in this
community.
It was you and Susie, SusieNewman for me and what I've seen
(14:46):
observe, like being Jewish,you're a target, you mean.
So being in a Jewish schoolnear a Jewish synagogue is like
holy crap, it's a target andit's like what, how do I deal
with this?
How do I?
You know, that's like themilitary brain kicking in and
you guys calling me down andlike it's OK and you know, how
(15:08):
are you?
What's going on?
You know and and not seen for,oh, maybe she can convert.
It's like seen for that's Nikki, you know.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (15:18):
Well, I also know the feeling is mutual,
Nikki, because you know, inthose moments when I'd ask you,
how are you doing, instead ofjust giving the usual social
script of fine, how are you, youwould usually give me something
authentic and so you alsoshared.
Some of you know this is Nikki,and and I think about how many
of us we spend our days, I spendmy day, and you know, in the
(15:41):
orbits of hundreds or thousandsof people and we're all spinning
, disconnected, and thatsometimes the very thing that
we're looking for is truly assimple.
As am I willing to just stoplong enough to look somebody in
the eye to ask a question andactually mean the question, or
have a question asked of me, andbe willing to respond to
(16:02):
something authentic?
And you know I'm going back toyour statement about the magic
of New York City is how do wefeel enough integrity, enough
pride in who we are in order tobe willing to share that with
the world, and enough humilityand curiosity that we're willing
to ask an inquirer to another,and that's the magic.
Nikki Fisher (16:21):
So funny enough.
That is like kind of like aMidwestern thing.
And how are you like generally,how are you?
And getting picked up on that?
And so like he'll go intostores or you know, talk to
waitresses or whatever it's like.
So how are you doing?
And you know it takes him backand they'll answer.
(16:45):
It's like really, and he'lllike have a conversation with
them and it's like you can seetheir heads like wait, this
young kid is asking me how I'mdoing and he's genuine about it.
You know what I mean and I knowthat's me because I do it all
the time, because I know if I'mgoing crazy in this world, I
know other people are.
So sometimes you just need thatlittle spark, just for you know
(17:09):
.
A minute, five minutes,whatever you know.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (17:14):
And so I want to know how did the person who
had first walked into thisRodeph Sholom community feeling
very much like the outsider cometo be the person who is
volunteering left and right andhelping to lead and connect and
cohere this community together?
How did that happen?
Nikki Fisher (17:30):
Some of the moms that I met were really cool and
they were like, hey, you want tohelp out with this?
I'm like sure, and you know Iwant to volunteer for this, sure
, I'll hang out with you.
You know no big deal and itjust kind of went from there
Because it's like, hey, if I canhelp them, then maybe they can
spend more time with the kids.
You know, because I wasvolunteering at the library and
(17:52):
I like books, that's just.
I love having books around me.
So that was cool.
And you know I'm talking withother moms and we're talking
about all the ups and downs oflife and kids and everything,
and so, again, that's thatbelong, because it's like I'm
not the only one that's dealingwith this craziness.
You know what I mean and likehow the hell do I get this kid
to sleep?
How the hell do I get this kidto eat the right foods?
(18:13):
You know, and like we're allsharing our you know techniques
and everything.
When I look back at my life, myparents did the same thing too.
My dad was the president of thePTA and you know he helped out
with so many things, and so tome it's just like that's natural
(18:34):
.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (18:35):
And I think it touches on another important
piece of belonging, which youknow, is that some of belonging
is something that we build, youknow I think this is some of
what you're touching on is.
I think a lot of us go throughour life waiting for someone
else to give some likecoordination ceremony, or like
the magic wand that annoys andsays Nicky, you now belong and
(18:58):
in reality a lot of it actuallyis in the moments when we are
least obsessed with the questionand instead feeling there's a
need in the world and be willingto be the one that rolls up our
sleeves and dives in and saysI've got something that I can do
to help me that need and alongthe way, suddenly discovered
that we've been building ourpath of belonging all along.
(19:18):
And I, you know.
If I can ask just one morequestion, is you know you get to
see in Gideon already, in aremarkable I mean dazzling human
being.
I'm obviously I'm a huge fan andfeel grateful that I got to
publicly embarrass him a littlebit.
Yes, yes, and at his barmitzvah, you know, but if you
(19:39):
were going to think of some ofthe seeds that you hope that you
and Adam are planting in Gideon, knowing that ultimately,
they're going to grow in waysthat you can never foresee.
But what are some of thoseseeds?
Oh, there, you talked about thespark.
You know where's some of thesparks that you're hoping you're
helping to place in his ownheart.
Nikki Fisher (19:57):
Except people for who they are.
That's the one seed that wehave been cultivating with him
and so far he has, but we'll seewhen he gets to high school
that's going to be hold off fromballgame, as he, you know,
moves on with his life and hashis own family and, you know, do
(20:18):
whatever it is that he wants todo that makes him happy.
You know where he's all glowyand stuff.
That's what I want, you know.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (20:28):
Well, I do think you have, in your journey
being one that has brought youinto seeing some of the darker
shadows of humanity and seeingsome of the frailty and
limitations of people and seeinghow much fear actually is the
poison to that very spark.
(20:49):
You know, creating anenvironment where Gideon or any
of our youth can feel celebratedfor the unique spark they bring
into this world, the uniquegift that they are.
It's not the antidote toeverything, but it certainly is
the essential foundation of theessential ingredient to the
world getting better.
And then the challenge is likehow do we share enough, collide
(21:14):
enough, have courageous enoughconversations that we can move
beyond the fear?
And you know, you see, we alldance around the harder topics.
But I think it takes thecourageous person willing to
kind of like, speak to them alittle bit, to name them, that
can finally open some of thepaths that have been closed for
all of us.
And you know, I know, forGideon, you know he is always
(21:34):
that person for years and yearshas been that one, willing to
raise his hand and ask the hardquestion and dive into the hard
topic.
Nikki Fisher (21:40):
Well, a friend of ours.
She would say you have to havethat courageous, courageous
conversation, and in her case itwas talking about sex and
everything.
But it's also just life,especially in New York.
You see all of it, from therichest to like the poorest
sleeping on the street.
(22:01):
You know what I mean.
You see all of it and you can'tignore it anymore.
So it's just like how do youwant to live and how do you want
to get there?
Do you want to get there thelike jacked up way, or do you
want to get there where you'rehelping and taking people with
you?
Rabbi Ben Spratt (22:19):
You know what I mean Nikki, I just want to say
thank you.
Um, it's really I mean, justforget the recording and the
podcast for a second just a real, genuine gift to get.
I mean so much wisdom.
You just keep touts and, um, Imean holy, wow, you took us into
some really important areas andthank you for your willingness
to do that.
Nikki Fisher (22:40):
I hope so.
Thank you for having me.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (22:46):
Thank you for joining us and listening to this
story of belonging.
Stay connected with us onFacebook and Instagram.
You can find me on Twitter atBenHSpratt.
For more information about CRS,visit us at rodephsholom.
org.
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