February 22, 2024 • 24 mins
Our latest episode features this esteemed honorary trustee and beacon of Congregation Rodeph Sholom, Mary Harkavy. She unravels tales of her lifelong quest for belonging and the profound impact of forging strong relationships within the synagogue. Mary's reflections on her service, the importance of listening to younger voices, and her role in sustaining our shared heritage, offer a treasure trove of wisdom for nurturing a vibrant community.
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Episode Transcript
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Rabbi Ben Spratt (00:04):
The human story is the search for
belonging.
From childhood to adulthood, injoy and in struggle, we all sit
in questions of how to makesense of it all.
What is our place?
Why are we here?
What is our story of searching?
Join us in conversation withcommunity members each sharing
some of their own story.
(00:27):
I am Ben Spratt and this isBelonging, so I have the honor
today sitting with Mary Harkevy,beloved member, alongside her
husband, arnie, for nearly 60years here at Congregation
Rodeph Sholom, and Arnie andMary just celebrated their 65th
(00:47):
wedding anniversary.
And, over the arc of her manyyears of leadership and devotion
here, she is an honorarytrustee, having served on our
board for many years, the chairof our Rodeph Sholom school
board.
She also, somehow at the sametime, was able to hold down a
vibrant career in marketing andresearch and now, in more recent
years, has taken upon herselfto help hold the sacred
(01:11):
conversations and stories of our180-year-old congregation.
She serves in our archivesdepartment, lifting up the
leadership and the inspirationof past generations to guide us
today.
And, on a personal note, aperson who has helped support me
and shaped me as a rabbithrough my two decades here at
Rodeph Sholom, Mary.
It is such a gift to be inconversation with you today.
(01:32):
So, mary, want to begin with aquestion, really, and the
exploration of what is your ownsearch for belonging over the
arc of your life.
Mary Harkavy (01:45):
I think that I have always enjoyed other people
.
So that's the first step inwhen I first came to Rodeph
Sholom.
When I second came to RodephSholom as an adult, having been
here as a child when my brotherwas bombarded within the early
(02:08):
50s, we rejoined when mydaughter was two years old and
my husband came from an Orthodoxfamily.
I came from a totallynon-observant family and Rodeph
Sholom was the right answer forus.
(02:28):
We came because my downstairsneighbor who had a two-year-old
daughter also was Janet Newbird,who was a longtime congregant
at that point of Rodeph Sholomand her husband at even longer
time.
She said it's a good school,you know.
(02:53):
Actually, she probably saidit's a good temple and we joined
.
The following year my daughterentered the nursery school and
that was really the firstcommunity that I got to know.
When Hub Greenberg died, who wasa member of our Board of
Trustees, norman Schafflerappointed me to fill his spot on
(03:20):
the board so that I could thenbecome the next chair of the
school committee, which I didand I served for many years.
We went through the processinitially of hiring Erwin
Schlachter in my early tenureand then helping guide the
(03:43):
school to really what its formatis today and I'm very proud of
what we did and I'm very proudof the school today for where it
stands.
I was an active member of theboard.
I went on to be treasurer forfour different presidents.
(04:05):
When I retired from my businesscareer in 2008, chuck Weiss put
a memo in I guess it was inthose days, it was probably in
(04:25):
the Chronicle and said he neededhelp in the archives.
And I went in and asked him ifhe wanted help I would come to
work.
I was looking for things to doto keep my activity as a part of
the community and now, close to15 years later, with Chuck on,
(04:50):
I am very much maintainingwhat's going on.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (04:56):
What do you feel like for you as the recipe
of actually what creates thatfeeling of belonging?
Because you are a person who'shad enough different chapters in
life.
You also have had a number ofrelationships and connections in
life and I'm wondering what isthe magic, what's the alchemy of
feeling that sense of belonging?
Mary Harkavy (05:13):
I think this feeling comes from being
involved, being able to dothings, not just to watch them,
and I think that you personallyhave made a tremendous stride in
getting people involved in waysthat will make them belong.
(05:36):
Our involvement initiallystarted because our children
were friends, and I think we allknow that.
You make friends with parentsof your children's friends.
You make friends with otherfriends in a community.
If you don't have children,it's much harder, and I think
(06:02):
you're more thankful for havinga community where you can do
that, and I think the diversityof our community today, where
there are many families that arenot traditional families and
may or may not have children, orthe older adults who come back,
they look for a community wherethey can make friends.
(06:26):
I think friendship and personalrelations are a big key.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (06:34):
And so I want to build off of that because I
want to go back to one of ourfirst interactions together.
That was about 20 years ago.
Mary and we might have hadearlier interactions, but I
remember specifically this one,and this was actually in 2003,.
So I had just started as anintern here at Rodeph Sholom and
(06:54):
was trying to make my wayaround some of our leadership
and find a way in Basicallylearn what is the essence of
this place, what does it mean tobe a clergy person here?
And with the suggestion of RabbiLevine, I got to sit down with
you and a few other congregantsand I remember distinctly I was
asking you for advice and youspecifically said to me you got
(07:20):
to make sure that you listen tothe kids.
And I remember asking you whatdo you mean by listening to the
children?
And you said all we're doinghere is we're trying to make
sure that a rising generation, anew generation, knows that
they're part of a much biggerstory.
But we also need to know thatwe're not the only ones that
have things to teach, that theyhave things to teach us as well,
(07:42):
and even as you're sitting heregetting advice from us, just
know that they're going to havesome advice as well and make
sure you turn attention there,and I think, back over all the
times we've had together, Mary,and one of those things that's a
thread is I think you've alwaysknown that the heart of this
place is people.
We have one of the mostbeautiful buildings of any
(08:03):
synagogue in the entire worldand it creates such sacred
moments for all of us.
But I think you're right thatit's friendship, that it's
connection, that it's people.
So for you, when you'rethinking about some of those
people that have mattered to youalong the way, tell me what are
some of those people and whatdo you think are the ways in
which they have changed you oraffected you in your own life?
Mary Harkavy (08:29):
I think I learned from all three that you just
mentioned very specifically, butI think I learned from other
people too, and I guess I'vealways tried to be a good
listener and I learned from them.
I learned about Judaism, whichI did not know before.
(08:53):
I learned from Rabbi Hirschberg.
I learned from Rabbi Levine.
I've always tried to takeadvantage of the education that
was here.
I've now taken Hebrew threedifferent times and I still
can't speak it, and I'm probablyone of the few people in the
(09:14):
synagogue who cannot read it orspeak it.
And I'm very happy when I canfollow the prayers because I
know them by heart, not becauseI'm reading them from Hebrew,
because I've given up on thatlanguage with never my forte.
So I think I've learned fromfriendship.
(09:35):
I think you enhance your lifeby the people that you know
around you, many of whom havedone lots of successful things
and things I would never even gonear.
Our closest friends really areJoan and Arnie Sheikla, who were
(09:57):
members here for many years,and their daughter, sloane, who
was very active for a long timebefore she moved to Connecticut.
I've learned a tremendousamount from both of them.
Joan, who was an advocate ofsports and the theater I learned
(10:19):
a lot about that and I thinkthat broadens you as a human
being.
So people connection is a veryimportant thing.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (10:30):
And I think that also highlights one of the
great challenges of our time isthe degree of loneliness, the
feelings of isolation, the kindof ripping and rupture of a
sense of community and societywhich is certainly the ills and
ills of today.
I think points to why that's soimportant.
I'm wondering what do you thinktend to be the barriers for
(10:54):
people to find that inspirationfrom other people, to find that
sense of connection andfriendship?
Mary Harkavy (11:01):
I think you need opportunity, which is one of the
things that the synagogueprovides.
It gives you the ability tomeet other people in a very
friendly environment with acommon interest, be it the
program you're attending per seor the synagogue at large.
(11:23):
I know, as you get older, theidea of isolation.
No matter how full your life isand how wonderful your family
is and how many children andgrandchildren you have, it is
more isolating.
You don't travel in the samecircles that you did, you don't
(11:45):
have a business environment thatcould add to that community
life.
And the fact that I'm stillinvolved in synagogue I feel has
helped tremendously.
Many of the people I amfriendly with acquaintance, not
(12:05):
close friends are all youngerthan I am.
That helps a lot.
So it helps as you.
Ageing teaches you a lot aboutisolation.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (12:19):
I'm thinking back over all of the
interactions, all of theconversations we've had together
and the way in which yousomehow bring joy into that
inquisitive spirit and I thinkabout some of the questions that
you've asked me, with a smileon your face, and it makes me
think about the kind of securityit takes to be a person who
(12:40):
asks questions.
I feel like right now in theworld there's so much fear.
I feel it, you know, fear aboutwhat's going to happen next,
fear about does my life actuallymatter?
Am I doing something that'sworthy in this world?
And from that place ofinsecurity, I think a lot of
people get into the pattern oftremendous telling.
You know, when we often talkabout conversations, what we
(13:00):
really mean is waiting for myturn to talk, and that's never
been you.
You have always led withquestions and I'm wondering
where do you get your securityfrom?
Mary Harkavy (13:09):
Where do?
Rabbi Ben Spratt (13:09):
you get the willingness to not just tell us
the incredible nature of yourcareer and everything you've
done here, that we often have todrag that out and dig that out
of you, because really you'rejust interested in learning
about the people around you.
Where does that come from?
Mary Harkavy (13:24):
I always say you have to be able to get up in the
morning and look in the mirrorand like the person that's there
, and I think that's a veryimportant part.
But I've been very fortunate.
I have a wonderful husband, Ihave wonderful children and
they've married wonderful peopleand they've given me great
(13:45):
grandchildren and I think thatall helps.
I think that's what helps youhave confidence and move forward
.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (13:54):
So bring that back into the context of Rodeph
Sholom for a moment, because youhave had the chance to not only
observe but actually help leadus through so many different
chapters of this congregation,against a backdrop of a country,
in a world that has beenconstantly in flux and changing,
and I'm wondering what do youthink are some of the bits of
wisdom that come from RodephSholom that help guide us in
(14:17):
challenging times?
Mary Harkavy (14:25):
I think the continuity of Judaism,
understanding where the Jewishpeople have come over the
Millenniums, has helped.
I think being part of thereform movement, as opposed to
other streams of Judaism, hastremendously helped, because I
(14:48):
feel it is a forward-goingbelief with a very ancient
controlling factor and I thinkthat's good.
I think that's helped a lot.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (15:05):
And you know, I think about what is to be a
part of a congregation that isone of the oldest legacies of
any congregation in New YorkCity and has changed so much in
those many years and yet hasalways had that feeling of
continuity.
And I think the secret of it isgoing back to.
(15:25):
Some of the wisdom that you'velifted up is that we feel like
we're in relationship not justwith each other but relationship
across generations, that thereis a sense of love and honor and
homage.
And so when you think aboutsome of the generations before
you here at Rodeph Sholom, whatdo you think you've drawn from
them in helping to bolstergenerations like myself and
(15:49):
those younger than me?
Mary Harkavy (15:52):
I think I've learned from all of them.
When I think back to peoplelike Sidney Lieder, who are a
generation before me, basically,or Sam Abrams, who were two men
that I knew well growing up inthis congregation, I look at
(16:17):
amazingly at what they had, andthey were very different men and
one was steeped in Jewishbackground and one was not
steeped at all, was thetraditional, non-traditional Jew
of the 40s and 50s, but howthey managed to be part of the
(16:41):
community and lead the communitywas always admirable to me in
very different ways.
Norman Schaffler, all ofblessed memory, was yet a third
kind of person and pretty muchmy mentor on the board, and I
(17:03):
looked at these men as reallyaccomplished and helping to
build a community and keep thecommunity, I guess is
maintaining the community waskey and it was important to me
and I think I learned from them.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (17:23):
So, for those of us who are wanting to walk
alongside you and continue thework of shaping the future of
this home, of belonging for ourcongregation, what do you feel
like is some of the work aheadfor us?
Mary Harkavy (17:40):
How to interact with the rest of the world.
I think that's frightening, adifficult going forward.
I think we were able to do itin an environment where, as a
Jew, you were not afraid, andI'm not sure that's true today.
(18:04):
But I think the knowledge thatwe have of so much that's an
issue in the world, which we nowfind in our own country, is the
most frightening to me.
I still think America is thebest place to live, but I don't
(18:28):
think it's the same as as itused to be, because there's too
much division.
It's no longer have twoopinions and come to a solution.
It's now have two opinions andgo in your own way and the
country be damned, and I thinkthat's a problem.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (18:53):
I couldn't agree more, mary.
So if we're gonna go back andthink about your journey and
we're gonna think about a personwho has devoted herself so
deeply to helping other peoplefind their own sense of
belonging here, and we're gonnathink about some of the magic of
(19:13):
what you see going on right now, whether it's in your home, in
the city, around the world foryou, what's sparking some joy
and delight for you, what'sraising that smile to your face?
Mary Harkavy (19:29):
I'm happy to see the congregation moving in the
direction it's moving in, whichis a more open way to look at
life, both Jewish and not Jewish, the community around us as
well as our own.
I'm thrilled with my ownpersonal family and where they
(19:55):
are now in today's world.
I'm very happy to still bemarried to Arnie after all this
time and that he is still ableto be part of my life, even
though it's much more limitedthan anything we've experienced
prior to this.
(20:16):
So I'm very positive on that.
But I don't like what I seearound me in the world and I
don't know how.
I don't feel capable of dealingwith it.
But I think that being part ofRodeph Sholom has helped me have
a sense that there are peoplewho can do that and I would
(20:41):
argue, I think that you are oneof those people.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (20:45):
I and I'm not just paying you a lip service,
mary, I really mean it I thinkreally truly about some of the
people who have been mentors andguides and inspirations to me
in my own journey and havehelped model to me the best of
what this community can be.
And as a person at variouspoints in his life, even today,
that sometimes can feel deeplyalone in the world, as a person
(21:06):
who sometimes struggles to knowwhich path to take and sometimes
struggling to find his ownplace, it is the person who
cares enough to ask the question.
It's the person who has enoughsecurity and a big enough heart
to wrap the world in an embracethat sometimes helps be that
beacon and that guide.
And I think part of why I wasexcited and very excited to now
(21:28):
be in this conversation with youis because, when I think about
what this place could be at itsbest, you represent it of how to
feel like we are a part of amuch larger conversation, how we
can feel like our story is apart of a much bigger story and
how we ultimately can see a lifethat is filled with both
blessing and challenge andchoose to make what we can out
(21:50):
of it.
So, if I can, just in kind ofone more question, I'd love to
hear for everyone who'slistening in here if you were
gonna encourage them to sit inone question, what would it be?
Mary Harkavy (22:14):
how can we make a better world?
Rabbi Ben Spratt (22:20):
I love that question, both because it
assumes a we and that's not theassumption a lot of people bring
these days and the idea thatthat's possible.
So, if I can flip that questionback to you, how do you feel we
(22:46):
can make a better world?
Mary Harkavy (22:51):
expand the love of family, which is the closest
circle you have, whatever thatfamily may be, and respect for
one another at that level, andhope that it will emanate out
(23:12):
into the broader family, broaderworld.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (23:20):
I cannot begin to tell you how much I
appreciate that answer, mary.
I want to offer gratitude.
It is not very often I get tosit in conversation with truly a
person that I love dearly, butalso a person that I know that
has been at the heart of shapingso much of the leadership of
Rodeph Sholom, and we offergratitude for this conversation
(23:42):
because you have given us somany different layers of
reflection and wisdom today, andI look forward to so many
getting to sit at your feet atleast maybe it for right now,
over audio, but I hope thatpeople also feel courageous
enough to reach out to you tosit more in person and see the
way in which you yourself areslowly knitting together at this
world.
Grateful for you, my friendthank you, my dear thank you for
(24:05):
joining us and listening tothis story of belonging.
Stay connected with us onFacebook and Instagram.
You can find me on Twitter atBen H Spratt.
For more information about CRS,visit us online at rodephsholom
.
org.
The human story is the search for
belonging.
From childhood to adulthood, injoy and in struggle, we all sit
in questions of how to makesense of it all.
What is our place?
Why are we here?
What is our story of searching?
Join us in conversation withcommunity members each sharing
some of their own story.
(00:27):
I am Ben Spratt and this isBelonging, so I have the honor
today sitting with Mary Harkevy,beloved member, alongside her
husband, arnie, for nearly 60years here at Congregation
Rodeph Sholom, and Arnie andMary just celebrated their 65th
(00:47):
wedding anniversary.
And, over the arc of her manyyears of leadership and devotion
here, she is an honorarytrustee, having served on our
board for many years, the chairof our Rodeph Sholom school
board.
She also, somehow at the sametime, was able to hold down a
vibrant career in marketing andresearch and now, in more recent
years, has taken upon herselfto help hold the sacred
(01:11):
conversations and stories of our180-year-old congregation.
She serves in our archivesdepartment, lifting up the
leadership and the inspirationof past generations to guide us
today.
And, on a personal note, aperson who has helped support me
and shaped me as a rabbithrough my two decades here at
Rodeph Sholom, Mary.
It is such a gift to be inconversation with you today.
(01:32):
So, mary, want to begin with aquestion, really, and the
exploration of what is your ownsearch for belonging over the
arc of your life.
Mary Harkavy (01:45):
I think that I have always enjoyed other people
.
So that's the first step inwhen I first came to Rodeph
Sholom.
When I second came to RodephSholom as an adult, having been
here as a child when my brotherwas bombarded within the early
(02:08):
50s, we rejoined when mydaughter was two years old and
my husband came from an Orthodoxfamily.
I came from a totallynon-observant family and Rodeph
Sholom was the right answer forus.
(02:28):
We came because my downstairsneighbor who had a two-year-old
daughter also was Janet Newbird,who was a longtime congregant
at that point of Rodeph Sholomand her husband at even longer
time.
She said it's a good school,you know.
(02:53):
Actually, she probably saidit's a good temple and we joined
.
The following year my daughterentered the nursery school and
that was really the firstcommunity that I got to know.
When Hub Greenberg died, who wasa member of our Board of
Trustees, norman Schafflerappointed me to fill his spot on
(03:20):
the board so that I could thenbecome the next chair of the
school committee, which I didand I served for many years.
We went through the processinitially of hiring Erwin
Schlachter in my early tenureand then helping guide the
(03:43):
school to really what its formatis today and I'm very proud of
what we did and I'm very proudof the school today for where it
stands.
I was an active member of theboard.
I went on to be treasurer forfour different presidents.
(04:05):
When I retired from my businesscareer in 2008, chuck Weiss put
a memo in I guess it was inthose days, it was probably in
(04:25):
the Chronicle and said he neededhelp in the archives.
And I went in and asked him ifhe wanted help I would come to
work.
I was looking for things to doto keep my activity as a part of
the community and now, close to15 years later, with Chuck on,
(04:50):
I am very much maintainingwhat's going on.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (04:56):
What do you feel like for you as the recipe
of actually what creates thatfeeling of belonging?
Because you are a person who'shad enough different chapters in
life.
You also have had a number ofrelationships and connections in
life and I'm wondering what isthe magic, what's the alchemy of
feeling that sense of belonging?
Mary Harkavy (05:13):
I think this feeling comes from being
involved, being able to dothings, not just to watch them,
and I think that you personallyhave made a tremendous stride in
getting people involved in waysthat will make them belong.
(05:36):
Our involvement initiallystarted because our children
were friends, and I think we allknow that.
You make friends with parentsof your children's friends.
You make friends with otherfriends in a community.
If you don't have children,it's much harder, and I think
(06:02):
you're more thankful for havinga community where you can do
that, and I think the diversityof our community today, where
there are many families that arenot traditional families and
may or may not have children, orthe older adults who come back,
they look for a community wherethey can make friends.
(06:26):
I think friendship and personalrelations are a big key.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (06:34):
And so I want to build off of that because I
want to go back to one of ourfirst interactions together.
That was about 20 years ago.
Mary and we might have hadearlier interactions, but I
remember specifically this one,and this was actually in 2003,.
So I had just started as anintern here at Rodeph Sholom and
(06:54):
was trying to make my wayaround some of our leadership
and find a way in Basicallylearn what is the essence of
this place, what does it mean tobe a clergy person here?
And with the suggestion of RabbiLevine, I got to sit down with
you and a few other congregantsand I remember distinctly I was
asking you for advice and youspecifically said to me you got
(07:20):
to make sure that you listen tothe kids.
And I remember asking you whatdo you mean by listening to the
children?
And you said all we're doinghere is we're trying to make
sure that a rising generation, anew generation, knows that
they're part of a much biggerstory.
But we also need to know thatwe're not the only ones that
have things to teach, that theyhave things to teach us as well,
(07:42):
and even as you're sitting heregetting advice from us, just
know that they're going to havesome advice as well and make
sure you turn attention there,and I think, back over all the
times we've had together, Mary,and one of those things that's a
thread is I think you've alwaysknown that the heart of this
place is people.
We have one of the mostbeautiful buildings of any
(08:03):
synagogue in the entire worldand it creates such sacred
moments for all of us.
But I think you're right thatit's friendship, that it's
connection, that it's people.
So for you, when you'rethinking about some of those
people that have mattered to youalong the way, tell me what are
some of those people and whatdo you think are the ways in
which they have changed you oraffected you in your own life?
Mary Harkavy (08:29):
I think I learned from all three that you just
mentioned very specifically, butI think I learned from other
people too, and I guess I'vealways tried to be a good
listener and I learned from them.
I learned about Judaism, whichI did not know before.
(08:53):
I learned from Rabbi Hirschberg.
I learned from Rabbi Levine.
I've always tried to takeadvantage of the education that
was here.
I've now taken Hebrew threedifferent times and I still
can't speak it, and I'm probablyone of the few people in the
(09:14):
synagogue who cannot read it orspeak it.
And I'm very happy when I canfollow the prayers because I
know them by heart, not becauseI'm reading them from Hebrew,
because I've given up on thatlanguage with never my forte.
So I think I've learned fromfriendship.
(09:35):
I think you enhance your lifeby the people that you know
around you, many of whom havedone lots of successful things
and things I would never even gonear.
Our closest friends really areJoan and Arnie Sheikla, who were
(09:57):
members here for many years,and their daughter, sloane, who
was very active for a long timebefore she moved to Connecticut.
I've learned a tremendousamount from both of them.
Joan, who was an advocate ofsports and the theater I learned
(10:19):
a lot about that and I thinkthat broadens you as a human
being.
So people connection is a veryimportant thing.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (10:30):
And I think that also highlights one of the
great challenges of our time isthe degree of loneliness, the
feelings of isolation, the kindof ripping and rupture of a
sense of community and societywhich is certainly the ills and
ills of today.
I think points to why that's soimportant.
I'm wondering what do you thinktend to be the barriers for
(10:54):
people to find that inspirationfrom other people, to find that
sense of connection andfriendship?
Mary Harkavy (11:01):
I think you need opportunity, which is one of the
things that the synagogueprovides.
It gives you the ability tomeet other people in a very
friendly environment with acommon interest, be it the
program you're attending per seor the synagogue at large.
(11:23):
I know, as you get older, theidea of isolation.
No matter how full your life isand how wonderful your family
is and how many children andgrandchildren you have, it is
more isolating.
You don't travel in the samecircles that you did, you don't
(11:45):
have a business environment thatcould add to that community
life.
And the fact that I'm stillinvolved in synagogue I feel has
helped tremendously.
Many of the people I amfriendly with acquaintance, not
(12:05):
close friends are all youngerthan I am.
That helps a lot.
So it helps as you.
Ageing teaches you a lot aboutisolation.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (12:19):
I'm thinking back over all of the
interactions, all of theconversations we've had together
and the way in which yousomehow bring joy into that
inquisitive spirit and I thinkabout some of the questions that
you've asked me, with a smileon your face, and it makes me
think about the kind of securityit takes to be a person who
(12:40):
asks questions.
I feel like right now in theworld there's so much fear.
I feel it, you know, fear aboutwhat's going to happen next,
fear about does my life actuallymatter?
Am I doing something that'sworthy in this world?
And from that place ofinsecurity, I think a lot of
people get into the pattern oftremendous telling.
You know, when we often talkabout conversations, what we
(13:00):
really mean is waiting for myturn to talk, and that's never
been you.
You have always led withquestions and I'm wondering
where do you get your securityfrom?
Mary Harkavy (13:09):
Where do?
Rabbi Ben Spratt (13:09):
you get the willingness to not just tell us
the incredible nature of yourcareer and everything you've
done here, that we often have todrag that out and dig that out
of you, because really you'rejust interested in learning
about the people around you.
Where does that come from?
Mary Harkavy (13:24):
I always say you have to be able to get up in the
morning and look in the mirrorand like the person that's there
, and I think that's a veryimportant part.
But I've been very fortunate.
I have a wonderful husband, Ihave wonderful children and
they've married wonderful peopleand they've given me great
(13:45):
grandchildren and I think thatall helps.
I think that's what helps youhave confidence and move forward
.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (13:54):
So bring that back into the context of Rodeph
Sholom for a moment, because youhave had the chance to not only
observe but actually help leadus through so many different
chapters of this congregation,against a backdrop of a country,
in a world that has beenconstantly in flux and changing,
and I'm wondering what do youthink are some of the bits of
wisdom that come from RodephSholom that help guide us in
(14:17):
challenging times?
Mary Harkavy (14:25):
I think the continuity of Judaism,
understanding where the Jewishpeople have come over the
Millenniums, has helped.
I think being part of thereform movement, as opposed to
other streams of Judaism, hastremendously helped, because I
(14:48):
feel it is a forward-goingbelief with a very ancient
controlling factor and I thinkthat's good.
I think that's helped a lot.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (15:05):
And you know, I think about what is to be a
part of a congregation that isone of the oldest legacies of
any congregation in New YorkCity and has changed so much in
those many years and yet hasalways had that feeling of
continuity.
And I think the secret of it isgoing back to.
(15:25):
Some of the wisdom that you'velifted up is that we feel like
we're in relationship not justwith each other but relationship
across generations, that thereis a sense of love and honor and
homage.
And so when you think aboutsome of the generations before
you here at Rodeph Sholom, whatdo you think you've drawn from
them in helping to bolstergenerations like myself and
(15:49):
those younger than me?
Mary Harkavy (15:52):
I think I've learned from all of them.
When I think back to peoplelike Sidney Lieder, who are a
generation before me, basically,or Sam Abrams, who were two men
that I knew well growing up inthis congregation, I look at
(16:17):
amazingly at what they had, andthey were very different men and
one was steeped in Jewishbackground and one was not
steeped at all, was thetraditional, non-traditional Jew
of the 40s and 50s, but howthey managed to be part of the
(16:41):
community and lead the communitywas always admirable to me in
very different ways.
Norman Schaffler, all ofblessed memory, was yet a third
kind of person and pretty muchmy mentor on the board, and I
(17:03):
looked at these men as reallyaccomplished and helping to
build a community and keep thecommunity, I guess is
maintaining the community waskey and it was important to me
and I think I learned from them.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (17:23):
So, for those of us who are wanting to walk
alongside you and continue thework of shaping the future of
this home, of belonging for ourcongregation, what do you feel
like is some of the work aheadfor us?
Mary Harkavy (17:40):
How to interact with the rest of the world.
I think that's frightening, adifficult going forward.
I think we were able to do itin an environment where, as a
Jew, you were not afraid, andI'm not sure that's true today.
(18:04):
But I think the knowledge thatwe have of so much that's an
issue in the world, which we nowfind in our own country, is the
most frightening to me.
I still think America is thebest place to live, but I don't
(18:28):
think it's the same as as itused to be, because there's too
much division.
It's no longer have twoopinions and come to a solution.
It's now have two opinions andgo in your own way and the
country be damned, and I thinkthat's a problem.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (18:53):
I couldn't agree more, mary.
So if we're gonna go back andthink about your journey and
we're gonna think about a personwho has devoted herself so
deeply to helping other peoplefind their own sense of
belonging here, and we're gonnathink about some of the magic of
(19:13):
what you see going on right now, whether it's in your home, in
the city, around the world foryou, what's sparking some joy
and delight for you, what'sraising that smile to your face?
Mary Harkavy (19:29):
I'm happy to see the congregation moving in the
direction it's moving in, whichis a more open way to look at
life, both Jewish and not Jewish, the community around us as
well as our own.
I'm thrilled with my ownpersonal family and where they
(19:55):
are now in today's world.
I'm very happy to still bemarried to Arnie after all this
time and that he is still ableto be part of my life, even
though it's much more limitedthan anything we've experienced
prior to this.
(20:16):
So I'm very positive on that.
But I don't like what I seearound me in the world and I
don't know how.
I don't feel capable of dealingwith it.
But I think that being part ofRodeph Sholom has helped me have
a sense that there are peoplewho can do that and I would
(20:41):
argue, I think that you are oneof those people.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (20:45):
I and I'm not just paying you a lip service,
mary, I really mean it I thinkreally truly about some of the
people who have been mentors andguides and inspirations to me
in my own journey and havehelped model to me the best of
what this community can be.
And as a person at variouspoints in his life, even today,
that sometimes can feel deeplyalone in the world, as a person
(21:06):
who sometimes struggles to knowwhich path to take and sometimes
struggling to find his ownplace, it is the person who
cares enough to ask the question.
It's the person who has enoughsecurity and a big enough heart
to wrap the world in an embracethat sometimes helps be that
beacon and that guide.
And I think part of why I wasexcited and very excited to now
(21:28):
be in this conversation with youis because, when I think about
what this place could be at itsbest, you represent it of how to
feel like we are a part of amuch larger conversation, how we
can feel like our story is apart of a much bigger story and
how we ultimately can see a lifethat is filled with both
blessing and challenge andchoose to make what we can out
(21:50):
of it.
So, if I can, just in kind ofone more question, I'd love to
hear for everyone who'slistening in here if you were
gonna encourage them to sit inone question, what would it be?
Mary Harkavy (22:14):
how can we make a better world?
Rabbi Ben Spratt (22:20):
I love that question, both because it
assumes a we and that's not theassumption a lot of people bring
these days and the idea thatthat's possible.
So, if I can flip that questionback to you, how do you feel we
(22:46):
can make a better world?
Mary Harkavy (22:51):
expand the love of family, which is the closest
circle you have, whatever thatfamily may be, and respect for
one another at that level, andhope that it will emanate out
(23:12):
into the broader family, broaderworld.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (23:20):
I cannot begin to tell you how much I
appreciate that answer, mary.
I want to offer gratitude.
It is not very often I get tosit in conversation with truly a
person that I love dearly, butalso a person that I know that
has been at the heart of shapingso much of the leadership of
Rodeph Sholom, and we offergratitude for this conversation
(23:42):
because you have given us somany different layers of
reflection and wisdom today, andI look forward to so many
getting to sit at your feet atleast maybe it for right now,
over audio, but I hope thatpeople also feel courageous
enough to reach out to you tosit more in person and see the
way in which you yourself areslowly knitting together at this
world.
Grateful for you, my friendthank you, my dear thank you for
(24:05):
joining us and listening tothis story of belonging.
Stay connected with us onFacebook and Instagram.
You can find me on Twitter atBen H Spratt.
For more information about CRS,visit us online at rodephsholom
.
org.
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