December 19, 2024 • 27 mins
What if the key to resilience lies in our shared quest for belonging? Join us for a compelling conversation with Dr. Robert Accordino, a respected psychiatrist and integral member of our Rodeph Sholom community. Through his experiences, we uncover how initiatives like Music for Autism and CRS's Shireinu Initiative redefine inclusivity, offering individuals with developmental conditions a space to truly belong. Robert opens up about the profound influence of his family and the resilience they instilled, shaping his path in medicine and his commitment to fostering inclusive communities.
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Rabbi Ben Spratt (00:04):
The human story is the search for
belonging.
From childhood to adulthood, injoy and in struggle, we all sit
in questions of how to makesense of it all.
What is our place?
Why are we here?
What is our story of searching?
Join us in conversation withcommunity members each sharing
some of their own story.
(00:27):
I am Ben Spratt and this isBelonging, so it is a true
pleasure to be getting to sitwith a beloved friend and fellow
member of our Rodeph Sholomfamily, Dr.
Robert Accordino.
Just a few words on what bringsRobert here today.
I want to make sure everyoneknows that he's currently a
(00:50):
practicing pediatric and adultpsychiatrist who is the
assistant professor ofpsychiatry at Weill Cornell
Medical College and also thechief medical officer at ABLE2.
If you've not heard of ABLE2,you should.
It's a leading provider oftech-enabled mental health
services and it's scaled allaround the country and actually
involves 2,000 mental healthclinicians.
(01:11):
Also, it's worth noting, noteveryone has this accolade.
In 2016, he was appointed byPresident Barack Obama to the
White House Fellowship, where headvised the secretaries of
defense of both the Obama andthe Trump healthcare on delivery
technology and paymentinnovation for service members
and their families, and becauseof this work he actually
received the Secretary ofDefense Medal for Outstanding
(01:34):
Public Service.
Our journey goes back about morethan 15 years and, as a
first-year medical student, thisis what everyone does in their
first year of medical schoolknown for spaciousness and
relaxation.
Actually, Robert founded thenonprofit organization Music for
Autism, served as its executivedirector and leading the
(01:55):
charity's fully subsidizedprograms, national expansion.
Music for Autism, andspecifically Robert's leadership
, was the place that we turnedto as we were building our And
it's really thanks to you,Robert, and I'm grateful that
over 15 years, we have sharedmany moments together and joyous
moments and difficult moments,mourned together, celebrated
together, and it is a gift tohave you as a part of the Rodeph
Sholom family and continue thatjourney together today Shireinu
program, and it was actually me, sitting at Robert's feet,
along with Rabbi Levine and GinaLevine, that allowed us to
shape Shireinu, which now hasbecome a model of spiritual
(02:17):
community for families of allneeds, bringing inclusive
environment to churches andsynagogues now all around the
world.
Dr. Robert Accordino (02:39):
Thank you , Rabbi Ben.
Thank you for those kind words.
The feeling is mutual.
It's an honor and a privilegeto be here, and Shireinu is just
such a beacon of hope,particularly during these dark
times, but also just theextraordinary impact that Rodeph
has around the world nowthrough Shirienu.
So thank you, and thank you forthat kind introduction.
(03:01):
It's really an honor to be here.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (03:03):
Thank you for that kind introduction.
It's really an honor to be here.
So, as you know, this is achance for us to be in
conversation.
That's really all sparked bythis prompt to please tell us
about your search for belonging.
Dr. Robert Accordino (03:15):
As we just discussed.
I think this is sort of a fullcircle moment, because so much
of Music for Autism and Shireinuis about belonging and Shireinu
is about belonging the conceptof belonging, which I think is
one that we iterate on andmorphs throughout our lives in
terms of what that means, buttruly it's a concept in terms of
(03:36):
people feeling comfortable in apublic space, what we were
aiming to do for these familieswith developmental conditions
who would otherwise be shut outor feel too ashamed to be a part
of something.
But I think in my own life,this has certainly been
something that has been a themethroughout my life and has been
an inspiration.
You know, I think my parentsreally taught me resilience and
(04:00):
I want to talk about them a bit.
One of the things that I'm mostgrateful for my family has been
together this week, and mybrother lives in LA with his
wonderful wife and three kids,and they were all here, and my
dad is here too.
We've been spending a lot oftime together as a family and
I've reflected on this.
My brother and I were so luckyto have the parents that we had
(04:22):
in that they really exposed us.
My brother and I are like very,very different in terms of our
interests and they exposed us toa whole array of things for us
to see what stuck and where webelonged, and I think this is
ultimately in my practice and inmy supervision of therapists at
Able2,.
This is central to one's life,of sort of figuring out.
(04:46):
In a social environment, aprofessional environment, you
know what has the most resonance, where you feel you fit in and
can be your most authentic selfand can contribute.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (04:58):
And so I'm wondering for you as you think
about the moves that you made.
You've obviously taken a muchharder path.
I'm you know, I've not gone tomedical school myself, but I
have heard that there are easierpaths than that.
What got you through that?
What allowed you to feel like,even as you face the immediate
(05:18):
challenge of looking around inyour medical school class and
feel like other people may havedone work that you hadn't yet
and felt more maybe othersaround you were more prepared
for this what actually made youdecide you know what I'm going
to do this.
Was it that conversation withyour dad?
Was it talking to your mentor?
I mean, what were the momentsthat made you say it's worth it
in the end?
Dr. Robert Accordino (05:39):
I think having a really strong why I'll
never forget medical school wassuper challenging.
I was an untraditional medicalstudent.
I got into this early admissionprogram and didn't have all the
tools and how exactly to managean extraordinary amount of
information that you wereresponsible for learning in a
very short amount of timeEventually got there, but there
(06:01):
were a lot of challenges and mybest friend from childhood
remains my dearest friend.
In adulthood.
His dad was a doctor and thefirst doctor I ever shadowed he
was an OBGYN and we went anddelivered babies when I was in
middle school together and I waslike, wow, this is really what
I want to do.
I love science.
And then, when I hit that firststumbling block in the first
(06:23):
months of medical school, I waslike what is this?
I had no idea what I signed upfor.
This is like a hazingexperience.
He said to me you want to stickwith it because you never know.
There's not a greater gift togive when there's someone in
need, whom you love, a familymember who needs medical help.
And this is true in life, likealmost on a daily basis,
(06:46):
especially now.
Unfortunately, there's anever-growing number of people
who are looking for help when itcomes to mental health or
physical health and just beingsort of medically, you know,
up-to-date and informed to helppeople.
That is an extraordinary gift.
But it was most poignant for mewhen this happened way too soon
, when I was in residency, andmy mom, who really was my person
(07:10):
and someone who just was thebest of us she was an elementary
school teacher and just anextraordinary person whose
lessons continue to impact mybrother and me every day and she
got this terrible cancerdiagnosis.
That just was a bad luckgenetic mutation and the
(07:31):
non-smoker related lung canceris called non-small cell lung
cancer.
It's a huge killer of women intheir 60s and she got this
terrible, terrible diagnosis.
And my dad and I really bondedbecause we were like I was like
the medical advisor to hertreatment which, when she was
diagnosed, even though she wasdoing so well, essentially
should have lived for two monthsand lived for two and a half
(07:53):
years, and we were able to sortof navigate things together and
my dad always said I don't knowhow people do this without
having a doctor translator.
I'll share with you and Ibrought it with me.
I have this most cherishedpossession in life, which was
from February 24, 2015.
(08:14):
So this is a card from myparents in the context of all of
this happening, and I justwanted to quote my mom because
this is something that hasserved as sort of a guiding
light for me since this horrible, horrible setback and loss.
So she wrote, and this card hasa it's a cloud with a wink.
(08:35):
So she wrote although you know,this is one journey I did not
want to take with you.
I am blessed that you are thecaptain of my ship, as you
always do.
You rose to the occasion withleadership and knowledge, always
navigating through murky waterswith compassion and firmness.
For these reasons, I am trulylucky, certainly lucky, to have
(08:58):
extraordinary you in my life andthis has been this I go back to
during challenging times.
And and she signed all my love,mom, you know, she is this
guiding true north and the griefis that, even though we had an
(09:20):
amazing hospital experience andjust shared so much with her,
the grief is just thatunexpressed love, even though we
expressed so much of it.
And it's sort of like AndrewGarfield said this about losing
his mom, which I thought wasreally moving.
You sort of don't want to losethat grief because you want to
keep someone present, but it's aloss that's felt all the time
(09:41):
and it certainly it was areminder of this path, this
journey of practicing medicine,which really is a practice and
it's an ongoing learning journey, and feeling like in medicine I
belong in a community ofhealers that is very central to
my identity.
I'm grateful to have had theparents who sort of helped,
support me to get there and allthe things you know.
(10:04):
My mom handled me with empathyand firmness to get me through
that journey, which was verytough, and I sort of needed
parenting more than I ever didand just the closeness with my
dad and in navigating thisjourney with him and my brother,
to support my mom at the end ofher life, which we just wish
hadn't happened so soon.
And I said this in my mom'seulogy.
(10:25):
To get back to her again for amoment Medical school aspires to
teach you how to care forpeople, but truly I learned it
all from her.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (10:36):
You know, and, robert, I'm so grateful that
you are leaping right into thedeep end of the pool in so many
ways.
You know, as I know, as you lookat the arc of your life, as
we've talked about together, youknow, it is often in grief that
we see so many of the threadsof what gives us a sense of
longing ripped away from us.
And you know, especially as ahealer, where much of your
(10:58):
driving purpose, I imagine, ishow you can impact and not only
help extend but maximize thelife that people have.
It also throws you into theexistential waters of being able
to see that sometimes in thepain, sometimes in the loss, we
come to a deeper sense ofbelonging and in the way that
she continues to be a guidinglight even beyond death, in the
(11:19):
way in which you, as a healer,also have to come up against the
reality of the limitations ofthat and to imagine that maybe
the greatest blessing you gaveyour mother is the rare but
exclusion experience some peoplehave is, as a parent, to spend
so much energy to inspire theirchild to reach and to dream and
(11:40):
to aspire, and to then be in theposition of needing to be cared
by them and the power dynamicthat I'm sure she had to grapple
with, not only your willingnessto step forward, but what a
powerful way to illustratebelonging is that even in the
loss of that also was thegalvanizing of it for you.
Dr. Robert Accordino (11:57):
And it's interesting I read there was
this op-ed today about Hersh'smom being this extraordinary
beacon of hope, and it waswritten by an op-ed writer at
the New York Times who sixmonths before had lost her own
child to cancer.
And there is this similarity ofwhat's happened recently with
(12:19):
the hostages and cancer oftrying to outwit an
extraordinary emperor of allmaladies.
And it was an extraordinaryparallel to think about, because
I also do a fair amount ofpsycho-oncology work and working
with patients with cancer andyou know there's always this
(12:40):
desire to do more and reallysort of where medicine meets
pastoral care and where ourfields really come together,
because in medicine, andoncology in particular, we
really are taught to continuefighting this battle and
sometimes you're trying to fightbattles and you're losing the
(13:03):
war.
It's important to infuseholistic care into all this, but
there's that's why there'sprograms to teach physicians
pastoral care and you know where, again, where our fields really
overlap.
But you know there's limits towhat the science can do.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (13:27):
And I do think you know it's interesting
because I think, as I reflect onmoments where I've sat with
grieving families, people facingterminal illness, even sitting
with people as they take theirlast breath, the impulse of
wanting to fix and the impulseof wanting to beat death and
pain is, it seems, like we'rehardwired for it.
And yet grief is simply lovepersisting.
(13:48):
And yet, you know, belonging issimply an understanding that my
own story is connected toothers and that maybe the Bible
has it right.
You know that love is strongerthan death, but that's not often
how we talk about it.
And and so in some ways and Iknow because of the work that
you've done it's diving into thescariest end of the pool, which
(14:08):
is really the one that has noperfect answers, and I'm sure
the number of people who haveturned to you and said, doctor,
please just tell me what's goingto happen, you know, please
tell me it's going to be okayand there's limits to happen.
You know, please tell me it'sgoing to be okay and there's
limits to what you can promiseand what you can guarantee.
And so you know, I know, thatpart of this year has been
(14:30):
defined not only by you lookingat the mental health needs here
in America and here in New Yorkin particular.
But I know you decided to be apart of medical first responders
flying out to Israel to bethere on the ground facing
people in the midst of justimmeasurable trauma and rupture,
and I was just wondering if youcould talk about that
(14:50):
experience, because it's onethat very few people, especially
with your training, have everreally encountered before.
Dr. Robert Accordino (14:57):
Yeah, it was one of the most profound
experiences of my life and Ithink it's the closest I've come
to understanding why folks makeAliyah to Israel, because I
never felt such a gravitationalpull.
So it was the first time in thecontext of this, first time in
50 years, where Israelrecognized that there would be a
(15:17):
physician shortage, that therewould be a physician shortage.
So the reason why I felt socompelled to help is that it was
the first time in the world.
I had actually tried to do thisin the In Poland, the Ukrainian
border, when the invasionstarted two years ago.
They didn't want mental healthprofessionals.
It was the first time when I itwas sort of the second time
(15:40):
with world events that I felt mytraining as a physician could
be uniquely helpful.
And I think when that's thecase and this is what I
explained to my family varyingresults like you have to step up
to the call to at least sort ofraise your hand.
What was interesting, the mostrelevant to the situation, was
(16:02):
actually the lessons we learnedin 9-11, unfortunately, which I
think is such an important storyto tell.
I mean, these hospitals aresuch an amazing example of
harmonious coexistence betweenPalestinians and Israelis.
So, first of all, there'sdoctors-in-training who are
Palestinian and Israeli.
Arabic is spoken as much asHebrew.
(16:26):
I was on an inpatient unit withteenagers, teenage patients,
but a whole host of those caringfor them.
So psychologists, psychiatrists, psychiatrists in training,
social workers.
We then were taking consults onthe pediatrics floors of kids
coming in with asthmaexacerbations, who also had
(16:47):
bipolar illness.
Or you know, they can'tdischarge a kid to the hospital
because and this was a patienton my team this child could not
be discharged to Gaza aPalestinian patient so was going
to stay in the hospital and howwe could line up sort of
psychosocial supports in thecontext of what was going to be
a very long hospital stay.
And then consuls to theemergency department, oftentimes
(17:08):
kids after suicide attempts.
So these are the things that Iwas helping with and what I was
helping with most of all whenthe hospitals overstretched.
These are teaching hospitals,like we have in the US, but when
they're overstretched, muchless teaching happens.
So the residents, the doctorsin training, they're making the
same mistakes.
So I just became this likeadditional teacher.
(17:30):
What was most amazing is thatyou know psychiatry.
There's so many culturalaspects of psychiatry.
We don't understand theneurobiology of psychiatric
conditions when we fullyunderstand them.
They're no longer psychiatryLike when we understand the
exact mechanisms, they becomepart of other medical
specialties, but just sort ofwatching what was happening 10
(17:55):
out of 10 times, not because I'mso smart or anything like that,
it's just because theseconditions, the way they present
, really are predictable andsort of it's pattern recognition
.
That is just like an asthmaexacerbation, except we don't
understand the science as well.
(18:16):
Specifically, and it wasamazing that there were patients
, there were girls with emergingborderline personality disorder
, borderline traits, who weresaying the same things that are
said on inpatient units inBoston or in New York right, you
could sort of see these moviesplay out and that to me, being
(18:37):
thousands and thousands of milesaway of these conditions that
unfortunately have a lot ofstigma because of our lack of
understanding of them.
But the fact they werepresenting in such similar ways
was really profound.
And 9-11, unfortunately, wasthis collective trauma that
October 7 is.
Similarly, and Israel is such asmall country the size of New
(18:58):
Jersey everyone is connected toa hostage.
You know, this was such atraumatic and horrible display
of terrorism and one of thethings we learned in 9-11, which
was really interesting to teach, was to sort of bring
supportive therapy to thecommunity.
You don't want all these peopleall of a sudden.
(19:18):
You know that can't have.
Everyone just showing up to thehospital will overtax the
hospital because there's goingto be the typical having heart
attacks or hip fractures and soon.
So these hospitals can'twithstand that demand.
So bringing care into thecommunity and the form of doing
this when there's like a hugeneed all of a sudden is to do
(19:39):
group psychotherapy.
So we were training folks to dotrauma-informed group
psychotherapy.
The last thing I'll say aboutthis is you know, when I showed
up, when I actually showed up up, when I actually showed up with
the head of child psychiatry,the team cried.
(20:05):
I think they had become soaccustomed to people not showing
up, people sort of saying theywould do something and not being
able to do it because it'sIsrael, because it's complicated
.
(20:26):
But my sense of belonging interms of my Jewish identity,
it's sort of I couldn't evenimagine what I experienced and
what that was like.
It just was awe-inspiring and Itruly got a lot more than I
gave and the connectedness I nowfeel we're actually doing with
a group of child psychiatristsactually my closest mentor in
child psychiatry, dr LauraPrager.
We're co-leading this ongoingseries, which we're going to do
through all of 2025, of Americanchild psychiatrist teaching
(20:53):
Israeli residents to continuethis impact over Zoom.
But there's a sense ofcommunity there that I think is
so special and belonging that Idon't know exists in the same
way in the US, just in terms of,like, social support and you
(21:14):
know how a community cares forone another and what makes the
last almost year just so tragicin terms of how it's impacted
really the soul of this nationthat is collectively grieving in
such a profound way.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (21:30):
Perfectly said .
And the just, sheer, almostimmeasurable tragedy, layered
upon tragedy, you know, andtruly generations of trauma that
now are going to ripple forward.
You know, it is more than justgrieving a moment.
It's really a rupture of thefeeling of belonging, of safety
for so many, you know, and Ithink in the context of American
Judaism you know, it is morethan just grieving a moment.
It's really a rupture of thefeeling of belonging, of safety
for so many.
You know, and I think in thecontext of American Judaism, you
(21:50):
know, we have certainly seenthat, just as you were
reflecting kind of a personallevel of grief with your mother,
we can, in grief, spin inmultiple directions.
It can both be the thing thatgalvanizes us most, that makes
us recenter, a sense of what arewe really attached to and what
really matters, when thosethreads of safety and well-being
are just torn asunder.
(22:10):
But it can also do the opposite, is that it can both galvanize
but it also can create a senseof distance and loneliness, and
I think in the American Jewishcommunity we've seen this.
For some people this has beenthe time to double down on the
feeling of Jewishness and thesense of peoplehood and sense of
solidarity, and for some people, it's been the moment where you
know the loss of feelingcomfortable to do so, or feeling
(22:33):
like there are actions orbehaviors you know that the
state of Israel is engaged inthat they wouldn't engage in
themselves, and I think you know.
Part of what you're getting to,though, is that if we leave it
up to our just innate reactionsand responses, it doesn't
necessarily actually move usinto a better place of
well-being.
It may, but not always, andthat sometimes what we need is
(22:54):
the person who's willing to sitwith us in the rupture, to
remind us that we're not alone,and in some ways, ask us the
question of more than justresponding to this moment.
What's the larger tapestry?
What is that larger thread ofbelonging that might pull us
beyond the trauma?
The question of more than justresponding to this moment.
What's the larger tapestry?
You know, what is that largerthread of belonging that might
pull us beyond the trauma, and Iwas just wondering, you know,
for you I don't want tooversimplify the incredible work
(23:15):
you do, but in thinking aboutyou know our conversations 15
years ago with Music for Autism,and think about the arc of your
career, you know, again andagain, you've chosen to dedicate
yourself to thisacknowledgement that we may not
be able to control the pain, thewounds in our lives, but we can
be the ones who choose whetherwe show up for people in those
moments.
(23:36):
And I'm just wondering what getsyou through that.
You know what you know, if itagain I hope this doesn't go
into too personal an area, but,like, how do you find the energy
to do this again and again, tostep to the margins, to step to
the people who are often ignoredor forgotten in a world that
does not respond to pain well,and so we try to shut it down,
move it away, make it feel it'sokay and not close to us.
(23:56):
What propels you to be the onewho's willing to be
countercultural and, whetherit's in Israel or whether it's
here in New York, to be the oneto step into that and try to
create space, embrace and givevocabulary to what feels
unimaginable.
Dr. Robert Accordino (24:23):
Well, it's very kind of you to it's.
It means a lot, for can makepeople realize that life is
finite and to be deliberate withthat life that's been given to
you.
But I think actually the quotethat I've shared with many
(24:46):
patients, it's actually in Man'sSearch for Meaning, a Viktor
Frankl quote.
So the Viktor Frankl quote isthe highest value of all is to
choose your attitude insituations under which you have
no control.
Between what happens to us, thestimulus, and our response to
the stimulus is a space.
(25:06):
In that space lies our freedomand power to choose our
responses and in those choiceslies our growth and our
happiness.
And you know this quote to me.
He, of course, psychiatrist anda Holocaust survivor and is
speaking of his search formeaning in the context of being
(25:27):
in a concentration camp.
What's so powerful about it isit's not.
You know.
You can always compare it toyour stress, like think about
what's happening, you know, inUkraine, or what's happening.
And I think that can fall flatbecause you can't invalidate the
patient comes to you anxious,you can't try to negotiate your
(25:49):
way out.
It's like you have it reallygreat.
But I think in this quote itreally exemplifies for me.
Just, you know that every dayis a choice and some days we all
do it better than others.
But I think it's such importantlearning and it's centering,
(26:10):
and I remind myself of thatquote often in you know, giving
advice to loved ones, but also,you know, with patients, with
patient care.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (26:20):
Robert, I want to offer gratitude.
There's a thousand morequestions to ask, but again,
hopefully this is just thebeginning of a long, long
journey together in thisRotterdam family, and so
grateful for the ways that youhave and continue to be my
teacher, and grateful that, in aworld where so many of us do
everything we can to escapefacing the wound, the pain and
(26:41):
the rupture you can model inyour own life, that it's often
in those very things that haveruptured our sense, destroyed
our sense of belonging, that wecan find a new, perhaps even
more resilient sense of it.
That is truly showing that loveis stronger than death.
Dr. Robert Accordino (26:55):
So grateful for you, my friend,
grateful for you, Rabbi Ben,thank you so much for having me.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (27:02):
Thank you for joining us and listening to this
story of belonging.
Stay connected with us onFacebook and Instagram.
You can find me on Twitter@Ben H Spratt.
For more information about CRS,visit us online at
rodefsholomorg.
The human story is the search for
belonging.
From childhood to adulthood, injoy and in struggle, we all sit
in questions of how to makesense of it all.
What is our place?
Why are we here?
What is our story of searching?
Join us in conversation withcommunity members each sharing
some of their own story.
(00:27):
I am Ben Spratt and this isBelonging, so it is a true
pleasure to be getting to sitwith a beloved friend and fellow
member of our Rodeph Sholomfamily, Dr.
Robert Accordino.
Just a few words on what bringsRobert here today.
I want to make sure everyoneknows that he's currently a
(00:50):
practicing pediatric and adultpsychiatrist who is the
assistant professor ofpsychiatry at Weill Cornell
Medical College and also thechief medical officer at ABLE2.
If you've not heard of ABLE2,you should.
It's a leading provider oftech-enabled mental health
services and it's scaled allaround the country and actually
involves 2,000 mental healthclinicians.
(01:11):
Also, it's worth noting, noteveryone has this accolade.
In 2016, he was appointed byPresident Barack Obama to the
White House Fellowship, where headvised the secretaries of
defense of both the Obama andthe Trump healthcare on delivery
technology and paymentinnovation for service members
and their families, and becauseof this work he actually
received the Secretary ofDefense Medal for Outstanding
(01:34):
Public Service.
Our journey goes back about morethan 15 years and, as a
first-year medical student, thisis what everyone does in their
first year of medical schoolknown for spaciousness and
relaxation.
Actually, Robert founded thenonprofit organization Music for
Autism, served as its executivedirector and leading the
(01:55):
charity's fully subsidizedprograms, national expansion.
Music for Autism, andspecifically Robert's leadership
, was the place that we turnedto as we were building our And
it's really thanks to you,Robert, and I'm grateful that
over 15 years, we have sharedmany moments together and joyous
moments and difficult moments,mourned together, celebrated
together, and it is a gift tohave you as a part of the Rodeph
Sholom family and continue thatjourney together today Shireinu
program, and it was actually me, sitting at Robert's feet,
along with Rabbi Levine and GinaLevine, that allowed us to
shape Shireinu, which now hasbecome a model of spiritual
(02:17):
community for families of allneeds, bringing inclusive
environment to churches andsynagogues now all around the
world.
Dr. Robert Accordino (02:39):
Thank you , Rabbi Ben.
Thank you for those kind words.
The feeling is mutual.
It's an honor and a privilegeto be here, and Shireinu is just
such a beacon of hope,particularly during these dark
times, but also just theextraordinary impact that Rodeph
has around the world nowthrough Shirienu.
So thank you, and thank you forthat kind introduction.
(03:01):
It's really an honor to be here.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (03:03):
Thank you for that kind introduction.
It's really an honor to be here.
So, as you know, this is achance for us to be in
conversation.
That's really all sparked bythis prompt to please tell us
about your search for belonging.
Dr. Robert Accordino (03:15):
As we just discussed.
I think this is sort of a fullcircle moment, because so much
of Music for Autism and Shireinuis about belonging and Shireinu
is about belonging the conceptof belonging, which I think is
one that we iterate on andmorphs throughout our lives in
terms of what that means, buttruly it's a concept in terms of
(03:36):
people feeling comfortable in apublic space, what we were
aiming to do for these familieswith developmental conditions
who would otherwise be shut outor feel too ashamed to be a part
of something.
But I think in my own life,this has certainly been
something that has been a themethroughout my life and has been
an inspiration.
You know, I think my parentsreally taught me resilience and
(04:00):
I want to talk about them a bit.
One of the things that I'm mostgrateful for my family has been
together this week, and mybrother lives in LA with his
wonderful wife and three kids,and they were all here, and my
dad is here too.
We've been spending a lot oftime together as a family and
I've reflected on this.
My brother and I were so luckyto have the parents that we had
(04:22):
in that they really exposed us.
My brother and I are like very,very different in terms of our
interests and they exposed us toa whole array of things for us
to see what stuck and where webelonged, and I think this is
ultimately in my practice and inmy supervision of therapists at
Able2,.
This is central to one's life,of sort of figuring out.
(04:46):
In a social environment, aprofessional environment, you
know what has the most resonance, where you feel you fit in and
can be your most authentic selfand can contribute.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (04:58):
And so I'm wondering for you as you think
about the moves that you made.
You've obviously taken a muchharder path.
I'm you know, I've not gone tomedical school myself, but I
have heard that there are easierpaths than that.
What got you through that?
What allowed you to feel like,even as you face the immediate
(05:18):
challenge of looking around inyour medical school class and
feel like other people may havedone work that you hadn't yet
and felt more maybe othersaround you were more prepared
for this what actually made youdecide you know what I'm going
to do this.
Was it that conversation withyour dad?
Was it talking to your mentor?
I mean, what were the momentsthat made you say it's worth it
in the end?
Dr. Robert Accordino (05:39):
I think having a really strong why I'll
never forget medical school wassuper challenging.
I was an untraditional medicalstudent.
I got into this early admissionprogram and didn't have all the
tools and how exactly to managean extraordinary amount of
information that you wereresponsible for learning in a
very short amount of timeEventually got there, but there
(06:01):
were a lot of challenges and mybest friend from childhood
remains my dearest friend.
In adulthood.
His dad was a doctor and thefirst doctor I ever shadowed he
was an OBGYN and we went anddelivered babies when I was in
middle school together and I waslike, wow, this is really what
I want to do.
I love science.
And then, when I hit that firststumbling block in the first
(06:23):
months of medical school, I waslike what is this?
I had no idea what I signed upfor.
This is like a hazingexperience.
He said to me you want to stickwith it because you never know.
There's not a greater gift togive when there's someone in
need, whom you love, a familymember who needs medical help.
And this is true in life, likealmost on a daily basis,
(06:46):
especially now.
Unfortunately, there's anever-growing number of people
who are looking for help when itcomes to mental health or
physical health and just beingsort of medically, you know,
up-to-date and informed to helppeople.
That is an extraordinary gift.
But it was most poignant for mewhen this happened way too soon
, when I was in residency, andmy mom, who really was my person
(07:10):
and someone who just was thebest of us she was an elementary
school teacher and just anextraordinary person whose
lessons continue to impact mybrother and me every day and she
got this terrible cancerdiagnosis.
That just was a bad luckgenetic mutation and the
(07:31):
non-smoker related lung canceris called non-small cell lung
cancer.
It's a huge killer of women intheir 60s and she got this
terrible, terrible diagnosis.
And my dad and I really bondedbecause we were like I was like
the medical advisor to hertreatment which, when she was
diagnosed, even though she wasdoing so well, essentially
should have lived for two monthsand lived for two and a half
(07:53):
years, and we were able to sortof navigate things together and
my dad always said I don't knowhow people do this without
having a doctor translator.
I'll share with you and Ibrought it with me.
I have this most cherishedpossession in life, which was
from February 24, 2015.
(08:14):
So this is a card from myparents in the context of all of
this happening, and I justwanted to quote my mom because
this is something that hasserved as sort of a guiding
light for me since this horrible, horrible setback and loss.
So she wrote, and this card hasa it's a cloud with a wink.
(08:35):
So she wrote although you know,this is one journey I did not
want to take with you.
I am blessed that you are thecaptain of my ship, as you
always do.
You rose to the occasion withleadership and knowledge, always
navigating through murky waterswith compassion and firmness.
For these reasons, I am trulylucky, certainly lucky, to have
(08:58):
extraordinary you in my life andthis has been this I go back to
during challenging times.
And and she signed all my love,mom, you know, she is this
guiding true north and the griefis that, even though we had an
(09:20):
amazing hospital experience andjust shared so much with her,
the grief is just thatunexpressed love, even though we
expressed so much of it.
And it's sort of like AndrewGarfield said this about losing
his mom, which I thought wasreally moving.
You sort of don't want to losethat grief because you want to
keep someone present, but it's aloss that's felt all the time
(09:41):
and it certainly it was areminder of this path, this
journey of practicing medicine,which really is a practice and
it's an ongoing learning journey, and feeling like in medicine I
belong in a community ofhealers that is very central to
my identity.
I'm grateful to have had theparents who sort of helped,
support me to get there and allthe things you know.
(10:04):
My mom handled me with empathyand firmness to get me through
that journey, which was verytough, and I sort of needed
parenting more than I ever didand just the closeness with my
dad and in navigating thisjourney with him and my brother,
to support my mom at the end ofher life, which we just wish
hadn't happened so soon.
And I said this in my mom'seulogy.
(10:25):
To get back to her again for amoment Medical school aspires to
teach you how to care forpeople, but truly I learned it
all from her.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (10:36):
You know, and, robert, I'm so grateful that
you are leaping right into thedeep end of the pool in so many
ways.
You know, as I know, as you lookat the arc of your life, as
we've talked about together, youknow, it is often in grief that
we see so many of the threadsof what gives us a sense of
longing ripped away from us.
And you know, especially as ahealer, where much of your
(10:58):
driving purpose, I imagine, ishow you can impact and not only
help extend but maximize thelife that people have.
It also throws you into theexistential waters of being able
to see that sometimes in thepain, sometimes in the loss, we
come to a deeper sense ofbelonging and in the way that
she continues to be a guidinglight even beyond death, in the
(11:19):
way in which you, as a healer,also have to come up against the
reality of the limitations ofthat and to imagine that maybe
the greatest blessing you gaveyour mother is the rare but
exclusion experience some peoplehave is, as a parent, to spend
so much energy to inspire theirchild to reach and to dream and
(11:40):
to aspire, and to then be in theposition of needing to be cared
by them and the power dynamicthat I'm sure she had to grapple
with, not only your willingnessto step forward, but what a
powerful way to illustratebelonging is that even in the
loss of that also was thegalvanizing of it for you.
Dr. Robert Accordino (11:57):
And it's interesting I read there was
this op-ed today about Hersh'smom being this extraordinary
beacon of hope, and it waswritten by an op-ed writer at
the New York Times who sixmonths before had lost her own
child to cancer.
And there is this similarity ofwhat's happened recently with
(12:19):
the hostages and cancer oftrying to outwit an
extraordinary emperor of allmaladies.
And it was an extraordinaryparallel to think about, because
I also do a fair amount ofpsycho-oncology work and working
with patients with cancer andyou know there's always this
(12:40):
desire to do more and reallysort of where medicine meets
pastoral care and where ourfields really come together,
because in medicine, andoncology in particular, we
really are taught to continuefighting this battle and
sometimes you're trying to fightbattles and you're losing the
(13:03):
war.
It's important to infuseholistic care into all this, but
there's that's why there'sprograms to teach physicians
pastoral care and you know where, again, where our fields really
overlap.
But you know there's limits towhat the science can do.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (13:27):
And I do think you know it's interesting
because I think, as I reflect onmoments where I've sat with
grieving families, people facingterminal illness, even sitting
with people as they take theirlast breath, the impulse of
wanting to fix and the impulseof wanting to beat death and
pain is, it seems, like we'rehardwired for it.
And yet grief is simply lovepersisting.
(13:48):
And yet, you know, belonging issimply an understanding that my
own story is connected toothers and that maybe the Bible
has it right.
You know that love is strongerthan death, but that's not often
how we talk about it.
And and so in some ways and Iknow because of the work that
you've done it's diving into thescariest end of the pool, which
(14:08):
is really the one that has noperfect answers, and I'm sure
the number of people who haveturned to you and said, doctor,
please just tell me what's goingto happen, you know, please
tell me it's going to be okayand there's limits to happen.
You know, please tell me it'sgoing to be okay and there's
limits to what you can promiseand what you can guarantee.
And so you know, I know, thatpart of this year has been
(14:30):
defined not only by you lookingat the mental health needs here
in America and here in New Yorkin particular.
But I know you decided to be apart of medical first responders
flying out to Israel to bethere on the ground facing
people in the midst of justimmeasurable trauma and rupture,
and I was just wondering if youcould talk about that
(14:50):
experience, because it's onethat very few people, especially
with your training, have everreally encountered before.
Dr. Robert Accordino (14:57):
Yeah, it was one of the most profound
experiences of my life and Ithink it's the closest I've come
to understanding why folks makeAliyah to Israel, because I
never felt such a gravitationalpull.
So it was the first time in thecontext of this, first time in
50 years, where Israelrecognized that there would be a
(15:17):
physician shortage, that therewould be a physician shortage.
So the reason why I felt socompelled to help is that it was
the first time in the world.
I had actually tried to do thisin the In Poland, the Ukrainian
border, when the invasionstarted two years ago.
They didn't want mental healthprofessionals.
It was the first time when I itwas sort of the second time
(15:40):
with world events that I felt mytraining as a physician could
be uniquely helpful.
And I think when that's thecase and this is what I
explained to my family varyingresults like you have to step up
to the call to at least sort ofraise your hand.
What was interesting, the mostrelevant to the situation, was
(16:02):
actually the lessons we learnedin 9-11, unfortunately, which I
think is such an important storyto tell.
I mean, these hospitals aresuch an amazing example of
harmonious coexistence betweenPalestinians and Israelis.
So, first of all, there'sdoctors-in-training who are
Palestinian and Israeli.
Arabic is spoken as much asHebrew.
(16:26):
I was on an inpatient unit withteenagers, teenage patients,
but a whole host of those caringfor them.
So psychologists, psychiatrists, psychiatrists in training,
social workers.
We then were taking consults onthe pediatrics floors of kids
coming in with asthmaexacerbations, who also had
(16:47):
bipolar illness.
Or you know, they can'tdischarge a kid to the hospital
because and this was a patienton my team this child could not
be discharged to Gaza aPalestinian patient so was going
to stay in the hospital and howwe could line up sort of
psychosocial supports in thecontext of what was going to be
a very long hospital stay.
And then consuls to theemergency department, oftentimes
(17:08):
kids after suicide attempts.
So these are the things that Iwas helping with and what I was
helping with most of all whenthe hospitals overstretched.
These are teaching hospitals,like we have in the US, but when
they're overstretched, muchless teaching happens.
So the residents, the doctorsin training, they're making the
same mistakes.
So I just became this likeadditional teacher.
(17:30):
What was most amazing is thatyou know psychiatry.
There's so many culturalaspects of psychiatry.
We don't understand theneurobiology of psychiatric
conditions when we fullyunderstand them.
They're no longer psychiatryLike when we understand the
exact mechanisms, they becomepart of other medical
specialties, but just sort ofwatching what was happening 10
(17:55):
out of 10 times, not because I'mso smart or anything like that,
it's just because theseconditions, the way they present
, really are predictable andsort of it's pattern recognition
.
That is just like an asthmaexacerbation, except we don't
understand the science as well.
(18:16):
Specifically, and it wasamazing that there were patients
, there were girls with emergingborderline personality disorder
, borderline traits, who weresaying the same things that are
said on inpatient units inBoston or in New York right, you
could sort of see these moviesplay out and that to me, being
(18:37):
thousands and thousands of milesaway of these conditions that
unfortunately have a lot ofstigma because of our lack of
understanding of them.
But the fact they werepresenting in such similar ways
was really profound.
And 9-11, unfortunately, wasthis collective trauma that
October 7 is.
Similarly, and Israel is such asmall country the size of New
(18:58):
Jersey everyone is connected toa hostage.
You know, this was such atraumatic and horrible display
of terrorism and one of thethings we learned in 9-11, which
was really interesting to teach, was to sort of bring
supportive therapy to thecommunity.
You don't want all these peopleall of a sudden.
(19:18):
You know that can't have.
Everyone just showing up to thehospital will overtax the
hospital because there's goingto be the typical having heart
attacks or hip fractures and soon.
So these hospitals can'twithstand that demand.
So bringing care into thecommunity and the form of doing
this when there's like a hugeneed all of a sudden is to do
(19:39):
group psychotherapy.
So we were training folks to dotrauma-informed group
psychotherapy.
The last thing I'll say aboutthis is you know, when I showed
up, when I actually showed up up, when I actually showed up with
the head of child psychiatry,the team cried.
(20:05):
I think they had become soaccustomed to people not showing
up, people sort of saying theywould do something and not being
able to do it because it'sIsrael, because it's complicated
.
(20:26):
But my sense of belonging interms of my Jewish identity,
it's sort of I couldn't evenimagine what I experienced and
what that was like.
It just was awe-inspiring and Itruly got a lot more than I
gave and the connectedness I nowfeel we're actually doing with
a group of child psychiatristsactually my closest mentor in
child psychiatry, dr LauraPrager.
We're co-leading this ongoingseries, which we're going to do
through all of 2025, of Americanchild psychiatrist teaching
(20:53):
Israeli residents to continuethis impact over Zoom.
But there's a sense ofcommunity there that I think is
so special and belonging that Idon't know exists in the same
way in the US, just in terms of,like, social support and you
(21:14):
know how a community cares forone another and what makes the
last almost year just so tragicin terms of how it's impacted
really the soul of this nationthat is collectively grieving in
such a profound way.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (21:30):
Perfectly said .
And the just, sheer, almostimmeasurable tragedy, layered
upon tragedy, you know, andtruly generations of trauma that
now are going to ripple forward.
You know, it is more than justgrieving a moment.
It's really a rupture of thefeeling of belonging, of safety
for so many, you know, and Ithink in the context of American
Judaism you know, it is morethan just grieving a moment.
It's really a rupture of thefeeling of belonging, of safety
for so many.
You know, and I think in thecontext of American Judaism, you
(21:50):
know, we have certainly seenthat, just as you were
reflecting kind of a personallevel of grief with your mother,
we can, in grief, spin inmultiple directions.
It can both be the thing thatgalvanizes us most, that makes
us recenter, a sense of what arewe really attached to and what
really matters, when thosethreads of safety and well-being
are just torn asunder.
(22:10):
But it can also do the opposite, is that it can both galvanize
but it also can create a senseof distance and loneliness, and
I think in the American Jewishcommunity we've seen this.
For some people this has beenthe time to double down on the
feeling of Jewishness and thesense of peoplehood and sense of
solidarity, and for some people, it's been the moment where you
know the loss of feelingcomfortable to do so, or feeling
(22:33):
like there are actions orbehaviors you know that the
state of Israel is engaged inthat they wouldn't engage in
themselves, and I think you know.
Part of what you're getting to,though, is that if we leave it
up to our just innate reactionsand responses, it doesn't
necessarily actually move usinto a better place of
well-being.
It may, but not always, andthat sometimes what we need is
(22:54):
the person who's willing to sitwith us in the rupture, to
remind us that we're not alone,and in some ways, ask us the
question of more than justresponding to this moment.
What's the larger tapestry?
What is that larger thread ofbelonging that might pull us
beyond the trauma?
The question of more than justresponding to this moment.
What's the larger tapestry?
You know, what is that largerthread of belonging that might
pull us beyond the trauma, and Iwas just wondering, you know,
for you I don't want tooversimplify the incredible work
(23:15):
you do, but in thinking aboutyou know our conversations 15
years ago with Music for Autism,and think about the arc of your
career, you know, again andagain, you've chosen to dedicate
yourself to thisacknowledgement that we may not
be able to control the pain, thewounds in our lives, but we can
be the ones who choose whetherwe show up for people in those
moments.
(23:36):
And I'm just wondering what getsyou through that.
You know what you know, if itagain I hope this doesn't go
into too personal an area, but,like, how do you find the energy
to do this again and again, tostep to the margins, to step to
the people who are often ignoredor forgotten in a world that
does not respond to pain well,and so we try to shut it down,
move it away, make it feel it'sokay and not close to us.
(23:56):
What propels you to be the onewho's willing to be
countercultural and, whetherit's in Israel or whether it's
here in New York, to be the oneto step into that and try to
create space, embrace and givevocabulary to what feels
unimaginable.
Dr. Robert Accordino (24:23):
Well, it's very kind of you to it's.
It means a lot, for can makepeople realize that life is
finite and to be deliberate withthat life that's been given to
you.
But I think actually the quotethat I've shared with many
(24:46):
patients, it's actually in Man'sSearch for Meaning, a Viktor
Frankl quote.
So the Viktor Frankl quote isthe highest value of all is to
choose your attitude insituations under which you have
no control.
Between what happens to us, thestimulus, and our response to
the stimulus is a space.
(25:06):
In that space lies our freedomand power to choose our
responses and in those choiceslies our growth and our
happiness.
And you know this quote to me.
He, of course, psychiatrist anda Holocaust survivor and is
speaking of his search formeaning in the context of being
(25:27):
in a concentration camp.
What's so powerful about it isit's not.
You know.
You can always compare it toyour stress, like think about
what's happening, you know, inUkraine, or what's happening.
And I think that can fall flatbecause you can't invalidate the
patient comes to you anxious,you can't try to negotiate your
(25:49):
way out.
It's like you have it reallygreat.
But I think in this quote itreally exemplifies for me.
Just, you know that every dayis a choice and some days we all
do it better than others.
But I think it's such importantlearning and it's centering,
(26:10):
and I remind myself of thatquote often in you know, giving
advice to loved ones, but also,you know, with patients, with
patient care.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (26:20):
Robert, I want to offer gratitude.
There's a thousand morequestions to ask, but again,
hopefully this is just thebeginning of a long, long
journey together in thisRotterdam family, and so
grateful for the ways that youhave and continue to be my
teacher, and grateful that, in aworld where so many of us do
everything we can to escapefacing the wound, the pain and
(26:41):
the rupture you can model inyour own life, that it's often
in those very things that haveruptured our sense, destroyed
our sense of belonging, that wecan find a new, perhaps even
more resilient sense of it.
That is truly showing that loveis stronger than death.
Dr. Robert Accordino (26:55):
So grateful for you, my friend,
grateful for you, Rabbi Ben,thank you so much for having me.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (27:02):
Thank you for joining us and listening to this
story of belonging.
Stay connected with us onFacebook and Instagram.
You can find me on Twitter@Ben H Spratt.
For more information about CRS,visit us online at
rodefsholomorg.
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