December 12, 2024 • 26 mins
Jane Dystel’s journey is nothing short of transformative, from discovering her Jewish roots later in life, to becoming a beacon of community and support at Rodeph Sholom. Tune in to hear how Jane, despite not growing up with a religious foundation, embraced her faith through her marriage and son's involvement in Jewish traditions. Her story is a testament to the power of finding one's place and the importance of fostering a community where everyone feels they belong. Jane's advocacy for caregiver support, inspired by personal experiences with her brother and husband, underscores her unwavering commitment to building networks of care and belonging.
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Rabbi Ben Spratt (00:04):
The human story is the search for
belonging, from childhood toadulthood, in joy and in
struggle, we all sit inquestions of how to make sense
of it all.
What is our place?
Why are we here?
What is our story of searching?
Join us in conversation withcommunity members each sharing
some of their own story.
(00:25):
I am Ben Spratt and this isBelonging.
I have the honor of getting tosit with one of my teachers and
dear friends, Jane Dystel, who,in addition to being a legend
Rodeph Sholom she is also alegend out into the world of
(00:46):
publishing and the wonderfulworld of books.
So there are many ways to tellJane's story, but I want to
capture a few of them.
So, first and foremost, she andher husband, Steve, proud
parents of Jessica and Zach,Jessica and Zach, they are two
(01:07):
of the mainstays of RodephSholom and Jane, here in our
congregation, has held prettymuch every position of
leadership you can have as atrustee, as a recipient of our
Meyer Nathans Award, helpingwith our communications
committee, one of the leaders ofour Backpack Buddies program,
on and on.
I could really share the numberof conversations that Jane and
I have had over the years.
She has been one of the thoughtpartners.
That has helped us with some ofthe greatest ideas of this
(01:29):
congregation, including Minin,our small groups initiative, and
was one of my thought partnersin creating this entire podcast.
addition to this, she comesfrom a legend in the publishing
world her father, Oscar, alegend in the publishing world.
Her father, Oscar, the leaderbehind Bantam Books, and Jane in
(01:54):
her own right, ended up notonly learning from the trade,
from her father, but decidedthat she was going to be the one
to set out to break glassceilings and to show what a
person that may not have thatmany feet in physical stature
can become a person who reshapesan industry and creates the
capacity to share the mostimportant stories of our time.
I'm not going to go through allof the amazing authors and
(02:15):
people you've helped torepresent, but I will say
President Obama is on that listand, in addition to that, Jane
is a person that sees in eachand every space around her is
the call of leadership andresponsibility, and she both
expects of the world to bringits best forward, but models
always to be the one to bringher best forward, and it is
(02:35):
really with love and withgratitude.
Get to have you in conversationtoday.
Jane Dystel (02:39):
Ben.
I'm so honored to be asked todo this Really, really honored.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (02:50):
So another little side note a number of
years ago in our high schoolprogram I wanted to lift up
people in the world that hadgone on a journey in their own
self and were willing to shareabout that journey, and Jane is
one of the people.
I had come in and meet with awhole group, actually a series
of ninth graders, and so Ihappen to know you are a person
who not only knows a good storywhen you encounter it, but a
(03:12):
person who's really good atsharing some of her own story,
and I'm grateful for thegenerosity that you have already
brought forward to do that here.
And I'm wondering if you'rewilling, Jane, if you could tell
us about your own search forbelonging.
Jane Dystel (03:25):
You know, it took me a long, long time to really
feel I was in a place where Ibelonged.
I mean, I searched in my schooldays and through my early
professional life I never quitefelt that I was doing the right
(03:46):
thing for me.
I'm born Jewish but I was notraised as a Jew.
My parents were not religiousat all.
My father did not have a barmitzvah, my brother did not have
a bar mitzvah, so I had barelybeen in a synagogue before I met
my husband.
(04:06):
And when I married Steve andwhen Zach was born, I realized
that he was going to become abar mitzvah and I had to figure
out all about this because Iwanted to know what was going on
.
And then we came here to RodephSholom a long, long time ago.
(04:27):
Zach was seven years old.
I had become by that time anadult bat mitzvah.
I had taught myself how to readHebrew and really learned a
great deal and then started toreally feel.
When Zach came here and came toRodeph Sholom School, we became
(04:51):
part of the congregation.
I finally felt like I wasbeginning to belong.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (04:57):
And what's remarkable is, from that moment
forward, you also responded tothis community by wanting to be
one who would help createbelonging for others.
Because, again, I think at thistime in our society there are
very few people that choosecommunity and recognize that
community doesn't happen.
We don't just get to enjoy it,we actually have to be the one
to plant the seeds so we canreap the benefits of it.
(05:19):
And I feel like you've alwaysknown that.
Jane Dystel (05:32):
But I'm just curious how that got in your
head and you head and why you'vekept on this journey with us.
I don't know where it came from, but I think there was a time
my brother sadly had multiplesclerosis Society, and here I
mean we all know that when Idon't think something's
happening, I'm going to reachout and say so.
(05:53):
As you know, my current issueis that my husband is very ill
and when I first found out aboutthis many, many years ago he's
had this now for eight years,but we probably have known about
it for four or five I noticedthat there was nothing here for
me and for him and I wasdetermined to get help for other
(06:20):
people like me and like him.
You know, when I started thisjourney, I knew nothing.
I had to find out everything bymyself.
But I found out so much and Imet so many people and I learned
about treatments and I learnedabout how valuable support of
(06:43):
caregivers for caregivers is andso many people have said to me
this has saved my life and itreally does.
You know, I just had dinner.
I made dinner in the countryfor a very old friend who just
finally told me that her husbandhas dementia, but she didn't
(07:08):
want to tell anybody because ofthe stigma.
I know other people here atRodeph who have shared with me
that their spouses have justbeen diagnosed but they can't
say anything and I've tried toexplain to them how damaging
that is.
So many times I have heard thatit's the caregiver who dies
(07:34):
because they just store itinside.
And you can't do that.
You just can't.
You really, really, really haveto become part of a caregiver's
group.
It makes all the difference inthe world.
You have to meet people.
You have to let go of yourselfand know that they're there for
(07:56):
you.
They are critically importantto your life, to your health
literally to your health and, Iguess, ultimately for their
loved ones, because if they'renot there 100%, it's going to
hurt everybody.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (08:14):
And you know, I know we've spoken about this
before, Jane, but I think forany of us who go through
experiences that wound us,things that take especially the
most precious parts of our livesand rend them apart, there is a
way where that wound can moveus in so many different
directions.
For many of us it inspiresanger and resentment.
(08:35):
For many of us we try to go andcast blame outside.
But there's the rare peoplethat look at that wound and
figure out oh, I can't be theonly one facing this wound, and
how do we at least knit together, not because it makes it all
disappear, but because werealize we don't have to be
alone in it.
And I remember a long time agoone of my dear friends ended up
(08:58):
committing suicide, took theirown life, and I remember so many
people around me being souncomfortable.
People tried to offerplatitudes and you know well, at
least she's in a better placeand all of the things that
actually just sound terrible inthe moment but are coming from a
place of just people don't knowwhat to say, they don't have
the words.
And I remember one person whohad gone through a suicide in
(09:22):
their own family and sittingwith them and it wasn't any
particular words that were said,it wasn't somehow like just
giving me a pat on the back, itwas just somebody who could say
it's awful, and I'm still here,and it's awful, and you can
still be here, and I'm stillhere and it's awful and you can
still be here.
And I think that in a city likeNew York, where we have so many
(09:43):
different identities, so manydifferent journeys, almost
every experience is shared byother people here and yet so
much of it remains hidden.
I feel like that's part ofwhat you encountered is, You
know here at Rodeph Sholom wWe have many families that are
on the journey of memory loss,but when we first tried to find
a way to bring some of thesefamilies out of the woodwork,
(10:04):
nobody came and as we started tosit with them, it was all about
fear and stigma and shame.
You know, I know some of thepain of what you've dealt with
these past years is the peoplewho haven't known how to reach
out to you or been unwilling to,and I think it's, you know,
damaging also to thecongregation, the community.
You know, because, again, we'reat our best when we reflect the
(10:25):
full range of human experienceand when anyone, no matter what
they're going through, can comein and know they'll be held not
from a place of pity but from aplace of empathy and
understanding.
And not everyone understandswhat you go through, jane.
Not everyone understands whateach day that you spend with
Steve is like, but there aresome who understand whispers of
(10:47):
it or understand their ownrefractions of it.
And you know you chose thisyear to start up a minin group,
you know, to try to make surethat others who right now
probably feel alone, that youwere able to make sure they
didn't feel alone, so you wereable to give to them the very
thing that you didn't receive,and I can't think of a more
powerful response to the world.
Jane Dystel (11:04):
And I want to add to that group.
I want so much to help as manypeople as I can, because I know
how different I felt once I wasbeing helped, I mean Jane and
now I felt once I was beinghelped, I mean, and now you know
, I really have a good networkof people who are involved with
(11:25):
this caregiving community and Ireally feel strongly about it.
And because I feel so stronglyabout Rodeph, I want as many
people as I can find, I want tohelp them.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (11:41):
And we need it and I think about.
There's a beautiful image inthe Talmud Rabbi Yossi.
He talks about there once beinga blind man who was walking
around in the middle of thenight holding a torch.
And people ask why would ablind man be holding a torch in
the middle of the night?
It doesn't matter to the blindman whether it's daylight or not
(12:02):
, doesn't matter whether he'sholding a torch or not, and the
answer being given is you know,he holds the torch so that
others will come and walk withhim, and so he both gives the
light that allows them to findtheir way and they walk with him
so that they can help him findhis way.
And it's that mutuality, it'sthat sense that there's not the
single person that has salvationthat makes it all worthwhile.
(12:23):
But for all of the lackings wemay each of us have, there's
some torch we can lightnonetheless.
I just feel like that's the wayyou kind of go through the world
.
You know you are.
You are a person who is inevery moment I've ever seen you,
you know, jane always embodiedstrength, always embodied
determination, never willing tosimply accept mediocrity.
(12:43):
And I was wondering if we couldunpack some of that Because,
again from what I know in yourlife not only the journey that
you are walking right now withSteve that brings such
heartbreak forward but you'veencountered a fair amount of
adversity in your life.
You know it has not always beeneasy just a little bit, and I
don't know if you're willing totell us some of the story.
But I feel like part of whatmakes your strength remarkable
(13:06):
is because it's connected to ajourney that has not always been
easy.
It's not always been inevitable.
You could have responded to athousand things in a different
way and I'm just wondering ifyou can tell us some of that
journey, some of the story thatled you here.
Jane Dystel (13:19):
I mean, you know, growing up as I did, whether
they were religious or not, wewere a Jewish family and my
brother was a year younger thanme and yet I was fairly
invisible for probably the first25 or so years of my life,
(13:39):
except that he was the one whoall their hopes and dreams were
on and I was just sort ofsupposed to get married and have
kids and sadly he got sick.
He still did okay for a littlewhile after he was diagnosed
with MS, but I really had tostruggle, first of all just to
(14:03):
be seen as a young woman and asa growing up.
And then my father especially,his hopes and dreams just
transferred like overnight and Iwas like, oh, wait a minute,
what happened?
Now I'm not supposed to getmarried and have kids, I'm
supposed to have a career, and Iwas in book publishing but I
(14:25):
wasn't.
This was just a part time gig.
I was going to get married andhave kids.
Well, I did get married.
I didn't have kids for a littlewhile, but I struggled for those
first years just to be noticedby my parents, my father, and it
(14:47):
was, you know, I had been anagent, I guess, for a year and a
half or two and he had a lot ofvery close cronies in
publishing.
He was retired and he came tome I guess we had lunch one day
and he said you know, so-and-soand so-and-so and so-and-so and
so-and-so said you are reallydoing great, I'm, I'm.
(15:08):
I was amazed and you know, fromthen on he was really first
absolutely flabbergasted andthen very proud of me.
I mean, one of the one of mybig obstacles when I started to
really really build my careerand that only began when I
(15:30):
became an agent was my father,and I mean people were really
trying to shoot me down beinghis daughter and you know she's
only going to be successfulbecause of him.
And as an agent, that'simpossible.
I mean, that's just totallyimpossible.
You're only as good as yourclients and I'm very proud of my
(15:50):
clients.
So it was a real struggle, youknow.
I think I don't know what thepercentage is right now men
against, you know, as opposed towomen.
I really don't know what it is,but the percentage has changed
considerably.
(16:10):
The business has changedconsiderably.
It is much more difficult todaythan it was when I began.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (16:16):
You know, now, looking at an industry that I'm
sure mostly has no idea what itwas like decades ago, and you
were one of the trailblazers,you were one of the people who
broke glass ceilings and openeddoors for so many.
You know, and you've sharedthis with me.
But I also know that youdecided to step forward as an
agent at a time when theindustry as a whole was still
dominated by men, and I knowthat it wasn't just you know,
(16:40):
getting the pride of your father, but just the world as a whole
to take you seriously.
And you know, under your timeyou have seen the rise of, you
know, digital books and you knowthe explosion of audio books,
of digital books and theexplosion of audio books.
And I know, with each of thesetwists and turns, you found a
way of pivoting and pirouettingand nimbly adapting, and I know
(17:02):
it has not been easy.
Jane Dystel (17:05):
It's been.
It's really been kind ofamusing to watch because at
every step book publishing wasjust going to collapse.
You know, I mean people wouldcome to us and say, oh no, no,
no, no, there are going to be nomore printed books.
And I would say, are youkidding?
When digital books, whene-books came in, I mean
(17:27):
everybody was predicting thefall of print books.
I mean it was ridiculous and Ihad seen it before with audio
books, when I first started,were very hot and then they died
.
Mass market paperbacks that myfather published, they were very
hot.
Now they did stop with e-books,but I think they're coming back
(17:49):
a little bit now.
So everything comes back.
You just have to be patient.
And I always say this there areno new ideas, it's just the way
they're presented.
And that's really true.
And I'm sort of big intomeditation, which is just
thinking things through andpositively.
(18:12):
So whenever I hear somethinglike this, I take several deep
breaths and I say wait a minute,this is not the end of the
world, and I really believethat's true.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (18:25):
Is it interesting?
But I feel like there's thisobsession or fascination with
the apocalyptic.
It's so easy for us to assumethe sky is falling and
everything's going to come apart.
And you know any student ofhistory will see, you know there
is nothing new under the sun,as we read in Ecclesiastes.
And you know you live in anindustry long enough and you
(18:46):
start to see ideas come backaround again and again.
You know it's interestingbecause it doesn't take a great
deal of searching to findevidence that something is
collapsing or something isbringing us to the brink of
existence.
And it isn't to say we shouldnot have concerns or worries
about anything, but it is goodto have the practice of take a
breath.
(19:07):
People have said we're comingto the end again and again and
again, and somehow we're stillhere.
And then I wonder and you knowthis is something I'm curious
you know you have to smell outthe stories that are worthy.
You know you have to and, asyou said to me before, you're
looking not just for the wordsthat are on the page but the
person behind the words as well.
And I'm wondering how do yousmell out the people who are
(19:30):
willing to go beyond the surfacestory, into that little kernel
of humanity that you know needsto be lifted up.
Jane Dystel (19:38):
How do you spell that out.
If I want to read it, I'm goingto represent it.
I mean, that's the end of it.
So it's somewhat personal, butI really do believe that I
personally represent a lot ofthe market of readers.
I'm not particularlyintellectual, but I always,
(20:01):
always think about who thereader is.
I've got to be able to identifythat person.
If I can't, I can't representthe project.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (20:12):
You know I was thinking in my own a little bit
, in my own story.
I remember one of my teachersin college, who was my English
professor, was talking aboutgreat stories and Lifted Up the
Bible is a great story and youknow people in the class, many
of whom you know did not comefrom a religious background of
any kind, said that's ridiculous.
(20:33):
Why would the Bible be a greatstory?
And my professor said it'sbecause it starts with families.
You know gets, yes, into likenational wars and tropes and
finding God and revelation andthings like this, but it starts
with families and that if youwant to understand the universe
you have to start very close inand seeing what happens in the
(20:55):
individual human heart and whathappens in families.
And look, you have aninteresting family, I have an
interesting family and there'ssomething powerful in thinking
as a storyteller or as the onewho lifts up the storytellers of
the world.
How do we look close in a waythat's relatable, where people
can see themselves in the story,and the most powerful ones are
(21:16):
the ones that aren't coming downon high?
I have achieved the truth andI'm bestowing it on the people.
It's in the struggles, it's inthe fractured families, in the
daughter who felt unseen andunheard and for you know, being
one of four boys, you know tolook at both the way.
In family we come to understandwhat love really means Rodeph
(21:38):
Sholom also what lonelinessreally means, what
disappointment really means,what hope really means.
So, looking at your family, thefamily that you've come from
and the family that you'vehelped shape, what are some of
the biggest pieces of wisdom youfeel like you have Zach from
that well of experience?
Jane Dystel (22:02):
Well, I think that in my parents, both in their
upbringing because they camefrom very, very poor backgrounds
and achieved great success andfought some real battles I
cannot imagine and fought somereal battles.
I cannot imagine losing a childand going through that for 30
years, but they really werequite remarkable people.
To seeing my children one ofwhom is still being launched,
(22:27):
but my daughter is I cannot sayhow proud I am of her.
She's just.
I'm just watching her becomethis great big flower and I'm so
proud of her and I, you know, Ihope I had something to do with
both of them.
I'm very proud of both of them.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (22:48):
I really am, and very thankful to have them
with me right now am and verythankful to have them with me
right now and you know the pridethat I know you have for
Jessica and for Zachary, youknow is evident in every
conversation, every space.
And I also know that you havehad the experience, like most
parents, of seeing your childrenhave to forge their own path.
(23:10):
And I will say, one of theother things that you hold that
many other people at RotterShalom do not have the
experience of holding is what itis to be the mother of a Marine
.
And I was wondering if youcould talk about that journey,
because I know that that's alsosomething that you both are the
impetus of.
How you know, zach finds hisown strength in the world.
(23:31):
I mean, no question, he learneda lot of that from you and also
here he is blazing his own pathin a way that I'm sure you're
like what are you doing and alsodeeply proud of, and I'm
wondering if you could talkabout that experience a little
bit.
Jane Dystel (23:43):
Well, he was really his own person and when he told
us he was going to enlist and Itold him that was going to be
over my dead body, when he toldus he was going to enlist and I
told him that was going to beover my dead body, I was
(24:04):
flabbergasted but also andimmediately determined that if
he was going to do this, he wasgoing to do it in the right way,
which is when I startedexploring, helping him getting
into officer candidate school,exploring, helping him getting
into officer candidate schooland watching him develop over
the last nine years now into theman he has become.
You know, people come up to meand say Jewish kid from New York
(24:27):
City becomes an officer in theMarines and a pilot.
Officer in the Marines and apilot, yes, and you know what?
It was a wonderful decision.
Now that we're looking at theend of it, it was a very, very
good decision for Zach.
I say to each of them I'm here,especially now I mean they are
(24:49):
older I'm here.
And it's really beeninteresting because the two of
them, as you know, are 18 yearsapart and I'm different.
You know, I'm here for when youneed advice and I want to see
you succeed.
I want you to be happy.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (25:08):
Yes, and I know that Rambo has now joined
the family.
Jane Dystel (25:11):
Rambo is my new dog .
Rabbi Ben Spratt (25:12):
So I've got two dachshunds right.
Jane Dystel (25:14):
Yes, yeah, okay.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (25:16):
So I love it and you know I just want to.
I know I've thanked you before.
I just want to thank you again.
Jane is again and again, witheverything you've gone through
and continue to go through, youkeep trying to move the world
forward.
It's a blessing to have you asa friend, a teacher, a mentor
(25:40):
and, again you know, the veryone who's building the very
things she needs and, in theprocess, building what so many
others need as well.
So thank you for the idea ofhelping to shape this podcast,
thank you for getting to be aguest on it and looking forward
to the many who are hearing yourwords of wisdom, and I hope
that they will reach out to youand maybe join the Minyion and
maybe recognize that they're notalone in their journey and can
join you in yours.
Jane Dystel (25:58):
I certainly hope they will.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (26:00):
So grateful for you.
ro
Jane Dystel (26:01):
And I'm so thankful for you, so very thankful for
you.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (26:08):
Thank you for joining us and listening to this
story of belonging.
Stay connected with us onFacebook and Instagram For more
information about CRS.
Visit us online atrotoshalomorg.
The human story is the search for
belonging, from childhood toadulthood, in joy and in
struggle, we all sit inquestions of how to make sense
of it all.
What is our place?
Why are we here?
What is our story of searching?
Join us in conversation withcommunity members each sharing
some of their own story.
(00:25):
I am Ben Spratt and this isBelonging.
I have the honor of getting tosit with one of my teachers and
dear friends, Jane Dystel, who,in addition to being a legend
Rodeph Sholom she is also alegend out into the world of
(00:46):
publishing and the wonderfulworld of books.
So there are many ways to tellJane's story, but I want to
capture a few of them.
So, first and foremost, she andher husband, Steve, proud
parents of Jessica and Zach,Jessica and Zach, they are two
(01:07):
of the mainstays of RodephSholom and Jane, here in our
congregation, has held prettymuch every position of
leadership you can have as atrustee, as a recipient of our
Meyer Nathans Award, helpingwith our communications
committee, one of the leaders ofour Backpack Buddies program,
on and on.
I could really share the numberof conversations that Jane and
I have had over the years.
She has been one of the thoughtpartners.
That has helped us with some ofthe greatest ideas of this
(01:29):
congregation, including Minin,our small groups initiative, and
was one of my thought partnersin creating this entire podcast.
addition to this, she comesfrom a legend in the publishing
world her father, Oscar, alegend in the publishing world.
Her father, Oscar, the leaderbehind Bantam Books, and Jane in
(01:54):
her own right, ended up notonly learning from the trade,
from her father, but decidedthat she was going to be the one
to set out to break glassceilings and to show what a
person that may not have thatmany feet in physical stature
can become a person who reshapesan industry and creates the
capacity to share the mostimportant stories of our time.
I'm not going to go through allof the amazing authors and
(02:15):
people you've helped torepresent, but I will say
President Obama is on that listand, in addition to that, Jane
is a person that sees in eachand every space around her is
the call of leadership andresponsibility, and she both
expects of the world to bringits best forward, but models
always to be the one to bringher best forward, and it is
(02:35):
really with love and withgratitude.
Get to have you in conversationtoday.
Jane Dystel (02:39):
Ben.
I'm so honored to be asked todo this Really, really honored.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (02:50):
So another little side note a number of
years ago in our high schoolprogram I wanted to lift up
people in the world that hadgone on a journey in their own
self and were willing to shareabout that journey, and Jane is
one of the people.
I had come in and meet with awhole group, actually a series
of ninth graders, and so Ihappen to know you are a person
who not only knows a good storywhen you encounter it, but a
(03:12):
person who's really good atsharing some of her own story,
and I'm grateful for thegenerosity that you have already
brought forward to do that here.
And I'm wondering if you'rewilling, Jane, if you could tell
us about your own search forbelonging.
Jane Dystel (03:25):
You know, it took me a long, long time to really
feel I was in a place where Ibelonged.
I mean, I searched in my schooldays and through my early
professional life I never quitefelt that I was doing the right
(03:46):
thing for me.
I'm born Jewish but I was notraised as a Jew.
My parents were not religiousat all.
My father did not have a barmitzvah, my brother did not have
a bar mitzvah, so I had barelybeen in a synagogue before I met
my husband.
(04:06):
And when I married Steve andwhen Zach was born, I realized
that he was going to become abar mitzvah and I had to figure
out all about this because Iwanted to know what was going on
.
And then we came here to RodephSholom a long, long time ago.
(04:27):
Zach was seven years old.
I had become by that time anadult bat mitzvah.
I had taught myself how to readHebrew and really learned a
great deal and then started toreally feel.
When Zach came here and came toRodeph Sholom School, we became
(04:51):
part of the congregation.
I finally felt like I wasbeginning to belong.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (04:57):
And what's remarkable is, from that moment
forward, you also responded tothis community by wanting to be
one who would help createbelonging for others.
Because, again, I think at thistime in our society there are
very few people that choosecommunity and recognize that
community doesn't happen.
We don't just get to enjoy it,we actually have to be the one
to plant the seeds so we canreap the benefits of it.
(05:19):
And I feel like you've alwaysknown that.
Jane Dystel (05:32):
But I'm just curious how that got in your
head and you head and why you'vekept on this journey with us.
I don't know where it came from, but I think there was a time
my brother sadly had multiplesclerosis Society, and here I
mean we all know that when Idon't think something's
happening, I'm going to reachout and say so.
(05:53):
As you know, my current issueis that my husband is very ill
and when I first found out aboutthis many, many years ago he's
had this now for eight years,but we probably have known about
it for four or five I noticedthat there was nothing here for
me and for him and I wasdetermined to get help for other
(06:20):
people like me and like him.
You know, when I started thisjourney, I knew nothing.
I had to find out everything bymyself.
But I found out so much and Imet so many people and I learned
about treatments and I learnedabout how valuable support of
(06:43):
caregivers for caregivers is andso many people have said to me
this has saved my life and itreally does.
You know, I just had dinner.
I made dinner in the countryfor a very old friend who just
finally told me that her husbandhas dementia, but she didn't
(07:08):
want to tell anybody because ofthe stigma.
I know other people here atRodeph who have shared with me
that their spouses have justbeen diagnosed but they can't
say anything and I've tried toexplain to them how damaging
that is.
So many times I have heard thatit's the caregiver who dies
(07:34):
because they just store itinside.
And you can't do that.
You just can't.
You really, really, really haveto become part of a caregiver's
group.
It makes all the difference inthe world.
You have to meet people.
You have to let go of yourselfand know that they're there for
(07:56):
you.
They are critically importantto your life, to your health
literally to your health and, Iguess, ultimately for their
loved ones, because if they'renot there 100%, it's going to
hurt everybody.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (08:14):
And you know, I know we've spoken about this
before, Jane, but I think forany of us who go through
experiences that wound us,things that take especially the
most precious parts of our livesand rend them apart, there is a
way where that wound can moveus in so many different
directions.
For many of us it inspiresanger and resentment.
(08:35):
For many of us we try to go andcast blame outside.
But there's the rare peoplethat look at that wound and
figure out oh, I can't be theonly one facing this wound, and
how do we at least knit together, not because it makes it all
disappear, but because werealize we don't have to be
alone in it.
And I remember a long time agoone of my dear friends ended up
(08:58):
committing suicide, took theirown life, and I remember so many
people around me being souncomfortable.
People tried to offerplatitudes and you know well, at
least she's in a better placeand all of the things that
actually just sound terrible inthe moment but are coming from a
place of just people don't knowwhat to say, they don't have
the words.
And I remember one person whohad gone through a suicide in
(09:22):
their own family and sittingwith them and it wasn't any
particular words that were said,it wasn't somehow like just
giving me a pat on the back, itwas just somebody who could say
it's awful, and I'm still here,and it's awful, and you can
still be here, and I'm stillhere and it's awful and you can
still be here.
And I think that in a city likeNew York, where we have so many
(09:43):
different identities, so manydifferent journeys, almost
every experience is shared byother people here and yet so
much of it remains hidden.
I feel like that's part ofwhat you encountered is, You
know here at Rodeph Sholom wWe have many families that are
on the journey of memory loss,but when we first tried to find
a way to bring some of thesefamilies out of the woodwork,
(10:04):
nobody came and as we started tosit with them, it was all about
fear and stigma and shame.
You know, I know some of thepain of what you've dealt with
these past years is the peoplewho haven't known how to reach
out to you or been unwilling to,and I think it's, you know,
damaging also to thecongregation, the community.
You know, because, again, we'reat our best when we reflect the
(10:25):
full range of human experienceand when anyone, no matter what
they're going through, can comein and know they'll be held not
from a place of pity but from aplace of empathy and
understanding.
And not everyone understandswhat you go through, jane.
Not everyone understands whateach day that you spend with
Steve is like, but there aresome who understand whispers of
(10:47):
it or understand their ownrefractions of it.
And you know you chose thisyear to start up a minin group,
you know, to try to make surethat others who right now
probably feel alone, that youwere able to make sure they
didn't feel alone, so you wereable to give to them the very
thing that you didn't receive,and I can't think of a more
powerful response to the world.
Jane Dystel (11:04):
And I want to add to that group.
I want so much to help as manypeople as I can, because I know
how different I felt once I wasbeing helped, I mean Jane and
now I felt once I was beinghelped, I mean, and now you know
, I really have a good networkof people who are involved with
(11:25):
this caregiving community and Ireally feel strongly about it.
And because I feel so stronglyabout Rodeph, I want as many
people as I can find, I want tohelp them.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (11:41):
And we need it and I think about.
There's a beautiful image inthe Talmud Rabbi Yossi.
He talks about there once beinga blind man who was walking
around in the middle of thenight holding a torch.
And people ask why would ablind man be holding a torch in
the middle of the night?
It doesn't matter to the blindman whether it's daylight or not
(12:02):
, doesn't matter whether he'sholding a torch or not, and the
answer being given is you know,he holds the torch so that
others will come and walk withhim, and so he both gives the
light that allows them to findtheir way and they walk with him
so that they can help him findhis way.
And it's that mutuality, it'sthat sense that there's not the
single person that has salvationthat makes it all worthwhile.
(12:23):
But for all of the lackings wemay each of us have, there's
some torch we can lightnonetheless.
I just feel like that's the wayyou kind of go through the world
.
You know you are.
You are a person who is inevery moment I've ever seen you,
you know, jane always embodiedstrength, always embodied
determination, never willing tosimply accept mediocrity.
(12:43):
And I was wondering if we couldunpack some of that Because,
again from what I know in yourlife not only the journey that
you are walking right now withSteve that brings such
heartbreak forward but you'veencountered a fair amount of
adversity in your life.
You know it has not always beeneasy just a little bit, and I
don't know if you're willing totell us some of the story.
But I feel like part of whatmakes your strength remarkable
(13:06):
is because it's connected to ajourney that has not always been
easy.
It's not always been inevitable.
You could have responded to athousand things in a different
way and I'm just wondering ifyou can tell us some of that
journey, some of the story thatled you here.
Jane Dystel (13:19):
I mean, you know, growing up as I did, whether
they were religious or not, wewere a Jewish family and my
brother was a year younger thanme and yet I was fairly
invisible for probably the first25 or so years of my life,
(13:39):
except that he was the one whoall their hopes and dreams were
on and I was just sort ofsupposed to get married and have
kids and sadly he got sick.
He still did okay for a littlewhile after he was diagnosed
with MS, but I really had tostruggle, first of all just to
(14:03):
be seen as a young woman and asa growing up.
And then my father especially,his hopes and dreams just
transferred like overnight and Iwas like, oh, wait a minute,
what happened?
Now I'm not supposed to getmarried and have kids, I'm
supposed to have a career, and Iwas in book publishing but I
(14:25):
wasn't.
This was just a part time gig.
I was going to get married andhave kids.
Well, I did get married.
I didn't have kids for a littlewhile, but I struggled for those
first years just to be noticedby my parents, my father, and it
(14:47):
was, you know, I had been anagent, I guess, for a year and a
half or two and he had a lot ofvery close cronies in
publishing.
He was retired and he came tome I guess we had lunch one day
and he said you know, so-and-soand so-and-so and so-and-so and
so-and-so said you are reallydoing great, I'm, I'm.
(15:08):
I was amazed and you know, fromthen on he was really first
absolutely flabbergasted andthen very proud of me.
I mean, one of the one of mybig obstacles when I started to
really really build my careerand that only began when I
(15:30):
became an agent was my father,and I mean people were really
trying to shoot me down beinghis daughter and you know she's
only going to be successfulbecause of him.
And as an agent, that'simpossible.
I mean, that's just totallyimpossible.
You're only as good as yourclients and I'm very proud of my
(15:50):
clients.
So it was a real struggle, youknow.
I think I don't know what thepercentage is right now men
against, you know, as opposed towomen.
I really don't know what it is,but the percentage has changed
considerably.
(16:10):
The business has changedconsiderably.
It is much more difficult todaythan it was when I began.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (16:16):
You know, now, looking at an industry that I'm
sure mostly has no idea what itwas like decades ago, and you
were one of the trailblazers,you were one of the people who
broke glass ceilings and openeddoors for so many.
You know, and you've sharedthis with me.
But I also know that youdecided to step forward as an
agent at a time when theindustry as a whole was still
dominated by men, and I knowthat it wasn't just you know,
(16:40):
getting the pride of your father, but just the world as a whole
to take you seriously.
And you know, under your timeyou have seen the rise of, you
know, digital books and you knowthe explosion of audio books,
of digital books and theexplosion of audio books.
And I know, with each of thesetwists and turns, you found a
way of pivoting and pirouettingand nimbly adapting, and I know
(17:02):
it has not been easy.
Jane Dystel (17:05):
It's been.
It's really been kind ofamusing to watch because at
every step book publishing wasjust going to collapse.
You know, I mean people wouldcome to us and say, oh no, no,
no, no, there are going to be nomore printed books.
And I would say, are youkidding?
When digital books, whene-books came in, I mean
(17:27):
everybody was predicting thefall of print books.
I mean it was ridiculous and Ihad seen it before with audio
books, when I first started,were very hot and then they died
.
Mass market paperbacks that myfather published, they were very
hot.
Now they did stop with e-books,but I think they're coming back
(17:49):
a little bit now.
So everything comes back.
You just have to be patient.
And I always say this there areno new ideas, it's just the way
they're presented.
And that's really true.
And I'm sort of big intomeditation, which is just
thinking things through andpositively.
(18:12):
So whenever I hear somethinglike this, I take several deep
breaths and I say wait a minute,this is not the end of the
world, and I really believethat's true.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (18:25):
Is it interesting?
But I feel like there's thisobsession or fascination with
the apocalyptic.
It's so easy for us to assumethe sky is falling and
everything's going to come apart.
And you know any student ofhistory will see, you know there
is nothing new under the sun,as we read in Ecclesiastes.
And you know you live in anindustry long enough and you
(18:46):
start to see ideas come backaround again and again.
You know it's interestingbecause it doesn't take a great
deal of searching to findevidence that something is
collapsing or something isbringing us to the brink of
existence.
And it isn't to say we shouldnot have concerns or worries
about anything, but it is goodto have the practice of take a
breath.
(19:07):
People have said we're comingto the end again and again and
again, and somehow we're stillhere.
And then I wonder and you knowthis is something I'm curious
you know you have to smell outthe stories that are worthy.
You know you have to and, asyou said to me before, you're
looking not just for the wordsthat are on the page but the
person behind the words as well.
And I'm wondering how do yousmell out the people who are
(19:30):
willing to go beyond the surfacestory, into that little kernel
of humanity that you know needsto be lifted up.
Jane Dystel (19:38):
How do you spell that out.
If I want to read it, I'm goingto represent it.
I mean, that's the end of it.
So it's somewhat personal, butI really do believe that I
personally represent a lot ofthe market of readers.
I'm not particularlyintellectual, but I always,
(20:01):
always think about who thereader is.
I've got to be able to identifythat person.
If I can't, I can't representthe project.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (20:12):
You know I was thinking in my own a little bit
, in my own story.
I remember one of my teachersin college, who was my English
professor, was talking aboutgreat stories and Lifted Up the
Bible is a great story and youknow people in the class, many
of whom you know did not comefrom a religious background of
any kind, said that's ridiculous.
(20:33):
Why would the Bible be a greatstory?
And my professor said it'sbecause it starts with families.
You know gets, yes, into likenational wars and tropes and
finding God and revelation andthings like this, but it starts
with families and that if youwant to understand the universe
you have to start very close inand seeing what happens in the
(20:55):
individual human heart and whathappens in families.
And look, you have aninteresting family, I have an
interesting family and there'ssomething powerful in thinking
as a storyteller or as the onewho lifts up the storytellers of
the world.
How do we look close in a waythat's relatable, where people
can see themselves in the story,and the most powerful ones are
(21:16):
the ones that aren't coming downon high?
I have achieved the truth andI'm bestowing it on the people.
It's in the struggles, it's inthe fractured families, in the
daughter who felt unseen andunheard and for you know, being
one of four boys, you know tolook at both the way.
In family we come to understandwhat love really means Rodeph
(21:38):
Sholom also what lonelinessreally means, what
disappointment really means,what hope really means.
So, looking at your family, thefamily that you've come from
and the family that you'vehelped shape, what are some of
the biggest pieces of wisdom youfeel like you have Zach from
that well of experience?
Jane Dystel (22:02):
Well, I think that in my parents, both in their
upbringing because they camefrom very, very poor backgrounds
and achieved great success andfought some real battles I
cannot imagine and fought somereal battles.
I cannot imagine losing a childand going through that for 30
years, but they really werequite remarkable people.
To seeing my children one ofwhom is still being launched,
(22:27):
but my daughter is I cannot sayhow proud I am of her.
She's just.
I'm just watching her becomethis great big flower and I'm so
proud of her and I, you know, Ihope I had something to do with
both of them.
I'm very proud of both of them.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (22:48):
I really am, and very thankful to have them
with me right now am and verythankful to have them with me
right now and you know the pridethat I know you have for
Jessica and for Zachary, youknow is evident in every
conversation, every space.
And I also know that you havehad the experience, like most
parents, of seeing your childrenhave to forge their own path.
(23:10):
And I will say, one of theother things that you hold that
many other people at RotterShalom do not have the
experience of holding is what itis to be the mother of a Marine
.
And I was wondering if youcould talk about that journey,
because I know that that's alsosomething that you both are the
impetus of.
How you know, zach finds hisown strength in the world.
(23:31):
I mean, no question, he learneda lot of that from you and also
here he is blazing his own pathin a way that I'm sure you're
like what are you doing and alsodeeply proud of, and I'm
wondering if you could talkabout that experience a little
bit.
Jane Dystel (23:43):
Well, he was really his own person and when he told
us he was going to enlist and Itold him that was going to be
over my dead body, when he toldus he was going to enlist and I
told him that was going to beover my dead body, I was
(24:04):
flabbergasted but also andimmediately determined that if
he was going to do this, he wasgoing to do it in the right way,
which is when I startedexploring, helping him getting
into officer candidate school,exploring, helping him getting
into officer candidate schooland watching him develop over
the last nine years now into theman he has become.
You know, people come up to meand say Jewish kid from New York
(24:27):
City becomes an officer in theMarines and a pilot.
Officer in the Marines and apilot, yes, and you know what?
It was a wonderful decision.
Now that we're looking at theend of it, it was a very, very
good decision for Zach.
I say to each of them I'm here,especially now I mean they are
(24:49):
older I'm here.
And it's really beeninteresting because the two of
them, as you know, are 18 yearsapart and I'm different.
You know, I'm here for when youneed advice and I want to see
you succeed.
I want you to be happy.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (25:08):
Yes, and I know that Rambo has now joined
the family.
Jane Dystel (25:11):
Rambo is my new dog .
Rabbi Ben Spratt (25:12):
So I've got two dachshunds right.
Jane Dystel (25:14):
Yes, yeah, okay.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (25:16):
So I love it and you know I just want to.
I know I've thanked you before.
I just want to thank you again.
Jane is again and again, witheverything you've gone through
and continue to go through, youkeep trying to move the world
forward.
It's a blessing to have you asa friend, a teacher, a mentor
(25:40):
and, again you know, the veryone who's building the very
things she needs and, in theprocess, building what so many
others need as well.
So thank you for the idea ofhelping to shape this podcast,
thank you for getting to be aguest on it and looking forward
to the many who are hearing yourwords of wisdom, and I hope
that they will reach out to youand maybe join the Minyion and
maybe recognize that they're notalone in their journey and can
join you in yours.
Jane Dystel (25:58):
I certainly hope they will.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (26:00):
So grateful for you.
ro
Jane Dystel (26:01):
And I'm so thankful for you, so very thankful for
you.
Rabbi Ben Spratt (26:08):
Thank you for joining us and listening to this
story of belonging.
Stay connected with us onFacebook and Instagram For more
information about CRS.
Visit us online atrotoshalomorg.
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