Is Sinners the Best Movie of the Year?

Episode Transcript
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(00:08):
Be inspired to. Do things differently.
Hey everyone, welcome back to the show.
This is Below the Line podcast brought to you by the nobodies
of Hollywood. I'm Dylan.
And I'm Jesse and sitting to my right is I'm sorry guys, Victor
is not here again. He's breaking our hearts.

(00:29):
Breaking my heart. So last week we gave Victor a
mental health day because, you know, here at Below the Line
Productions, we like to support mental health in our employees.
Today he took a sick day. So that's where we're at today.
Tis the season, it's terrible, allergy season.
What are you going to do? But I told him like, hey, just

(00:50):
stay home, take all the Zyrtecs and like all like the the
vitamins that you need because by next week we need you here
for episode 13. Yeah, it's it's supposed to be a
a big one. Yeah, that that's, that's what
he told us in Confidants. Like I, I wish he was here so
you could like explain it himself and really defend what
he's trying to like, what we arelike obviously misconstruing

(01:12):
because he would say a lot better, but all I can do is just
hype it up because he has promised a phenomenal episode
13. And he would say this if he was
here right now, but he's not. So I have to voice it for him.
He really has, and we're probably not doing injustice,
but suffice it to say it is going to be his time to shine.
Just like Jesse shined in the Joker episode, which a lot of

(01:37):
people have responded to. So thank you.
Check out Below the Line episode7 For more information.
But yeah, anyway, so that was your weekend.
My weekend, my weekend was OK. It was Memorial Day, so three
day weekend semester ended. So there's some stress that's

(01:59):
that's off of my plate. But I watched Top Gun, Top Gun
Maverick just like I told you I would.
And then I watched Mission Impossible one and two.
I started 3 today. I didn't finish it, but yeah,
I've been watching a lot of movies.
Been watching a lot of Tom Cruise.

(02:19):
I have. I really have.
I just realized. That's a lot of Tom Cruise
there. You know, I know Tom Cruise is
kind of a polarizing guy becauseof the Scientology, but.
That's why he's polarizing. I like him.
Right. No, he's a he's a great actor.
Not just that, but he actually loves movies.

(02:40):
Like, he genuinely loves the artform so much, and he fights for
the cinematic experience that it's kind of hard for me to say
fuck Tom Cruise. He's weird, right?
So that's fine, yeah. How old is he now?
Like, because he's not. He's not a young dude anymore.
He's not. And he's still making Mission
Impossible. Doing these death defying

(03:01):
stunts. I don't know.
I want to say he's 60 something.Damn.
So that's crazy. Yeah, a lot of Tom Cruise.
You're right. I I don't know how I didn't put
that together. Really, I thought you, I thought
you just watched like the Top Gun Mavericks and you're like,
you know what? You know what I need, I need
more Tom Cruise in my life. And you know what comes out this
weekend, Memorial Day weekend? The what came out Mission

(03:23):
Impossible 789. 10:40. 8040, Yep.
He's still there yet. He's still alive and kicking,
you know, doing these Top Gun orMission Impossible movies.
But damn. Yeah, No, I saw you some
sometime this weekend. We we met up.
Yeah, we got drunk. I got drunk.
I was gonna say we got drunk, but I got drunk.
Well, you drank water, so I guess we did get drunk.

(03:45):
We did drink. We just drank.
Both of us technically drank, yes.
Just drank different beverages. Yeah, but we were talking.
We were talking about something near and dear to my heart.
Running. Yeah, I lied because I haven't
been running as much as I want to.
But I met up and I talked to Dylan about running because I
know Dylan is a run nut. And, you know, you're kind of

(04:07):
sad, buddy. What's up?
You you want to share something?Yeah, well, if running is near
and dear to your heart, then it might as well be a fundamental
aspect of my identity because guys, for about the past 10 days
I have not been able to run. I can barely even push off my
foot. No.

(04:27):
Yeah, bro, I every morning I getup and I try to just stride it
out to see how I'm feeling and Ijust dude, I cannot break into a
run at all because it's, it's painful.
So today I went to my primary care physician and I was
concerned that I had a stress fracture because I think I told

(04:48):
you recently I started running seven days a week, just no rest
days. Yeah.
So I started running seven days a week and that has been pretty
much going on since March. So however many consecutive days
that is, I've been running. So I was concerned that it was a
stress fracture. It's not, thankfully.

(05:09):
That's good. But I do have an Achilles
tendonitis issue that he recommended I stay off for at
least a month because if that ruptures I will not be racing
this fall. And again, that would that
would. If you think I'm low energy
right now. If I can't race in the fall,

(05:30):
then it's not going to be pretty.
Damn, do you need me to get you some extra lights?
We got a power right down the back.
Oh yeah, I'll take the Powerade,Yeah, because if I'm not
running, I guess I'll take the soft electrolytes.
All right. One minute.

(05:51):
Here you go, Sir. Thank you very much, just what I
needed. Below Line podcast sponsored by
Not Powerade because they're notcool enough to like this yet but
OK. Damn, that, that sucks to hear.
Because last time we spoke. Damn.
So that was buried last weekend.Yeah, because we were talking
about running and you gave me some advice, some running tips,

(06:13):
because I had, I had been experiencing some problems with
my running once I started pushing a certain threshold, you
know, going for distance. But damn that sucks that you
can't run for well it's already been 10 days to what, 20 more
days now? Well, yeah, Saturday will be two
weeks, so two weeks after that. But yeah, it's it bothers me

(06:36):
more than it should. I'm not going to lie to you.
Right. Well, you know, like in the
great wisdom of David Goggins, he would run through this shit.
You know he would run. He would.
He would run until like his toenails are peeling off and
like skin is degrading. Running through the bone.
He'll break his, he'll break hisown foot.
He's on running a marathon. I have a funny story.
Bro very funny story. I don't know if it's funny.

(06:59):
I think it's funny. All right, I'll laugh.
So in 2019, the same day that I went to the emergency room
because I had appendicitis, I got up and ran 10 miles that
morning, bro, But I didn't know I had appendicitis yet.
That morning I woke up. Yeah, I had some abdominal pain,
but I thought, oh, it's just nothing.

(07:21):
It's probably just normal abdominal pain.
If anything running will help because this might be getting
into too much information territory.
But if you've done long distancerunning, you know that it
stimulates bowel contractions. So I I really wasn't that
concerned about it. I got up, I ran, felt fine.

(07:45):
And then the day went on and on and the pain was not going away.
And it wasn't until pretty late,honestly, maybe 5:30 or so, that
I told my mom, I think something's wrong with me.
You're right. No.
So I laid down and she pressed on the lower right abdomen.
And as soon as she pulled her hands away, I was just in agony.

(08:09):
And it was kind of inevitable. But I had told them that I ran
that morning and the nurse thought I was insane that I ran
with appendicitis. But I honestly did not know.
If I had known that's what it was, I obviously wouldn't have
run. But that was the closest thing
I've had to David Goggins moment.

(08:30):
Until today. Well, since I've been injured,
I've been swimming. So worst case scenario, I take
another two weeks, I swim, I lift weights, I come out super
jacked, right? And then I lose all that muscle
by running. Right.
I mean, the thing about running especially, like you would know
for sure, but you don't lose your form even after a month or

(08:53):
so if you've been doing it consistently and it sounds like
you have like most of your life just then.
I think a month, a month break, like that's not gonna like
you're not going to be able to like not to not be able to run
10 miles out of nowhere. I think the first day you can,
the first Sunday you get back torunning.
Oh, you're running like 10 milesor some shit.
Yeah, I'm going for it, and honestly, this is probably why

(09:18):
it's so hard for me. This is the longest I've gone
without running since 2014. Bro.
It's like 11 years. Yeah.
I have never had an extended break like this.
I've taken breaks for obvious things, like if I was sick or
vacation. Yeah, exactly.

(09:39):
Vacation. I would go to Disneyland even
though I'm not a Disney adult but.
You are. So this is the longest I've gone
without running. So this is not it's not easy for
me. I hate it.
I feel antsy and I don't know man.
I feel you. You know what you need to do.

(09:59):
You need to go for a swim. Yeah, I do.
I'm going tomorrow. There you go.
Yeah, just two more weeks and then you know you'll be back.
You'll be back out there galloping like the stallion that
you are. I hope so.
I hope so. The goal is to come back better,
obviously so. Hopefully.
Well, I need you good because weare trying to do some events in

(10:19):
the fall. Yeah, we are.
We're hoping maybe the pod mightrepresent something.
Yep. Hoping yeah.
If not three, at least. Two.
Definitely 2 at the least. Worst case scenario one worst
case, worst super worst case will be 0 because you know.
That's. Oh no, But we all knock on wood.

(10:44):
The stool. That you know, we'll have at
least two, but hopefully 3. Yeah, hopefully 3 is the dream.
2 is where we will accept it. If it's only one then I mean, I
guess I've done that for the past few years anyway.
Then drop a, then drop a like and follow like to support the

(11:04):
pod. If it's only one, if there's at
least two or three, we don't need you.
No, I'm kidding. Support us.
Yes, please. But anyways, today's episode,
episode 12. I'm glad we have you all
gathered here today, and I'm glad that it is releasing on
this particular week because today we are talking about none

(11:28):
other than the critically acclaimed movie of the year,
Sinners. Yes, we're finally going to talk
about sinners. We were a little late to the
game. Bro, we're so late.
But I think we recorded this at a good time because it's hitting
streaming. Yep, the same week this episode

(11:49):
is going to be released. Another interesting anecdote.
When we did meet up over the weekend, we spoke to somebody
who was very interested in our opinion on sinners.
They were, yeah. And so this.
Is for you. Yeah, this is for you, 'cause we
couldn't give you the sauce thatday.
We had to like, you know, give you like a sample.
But today, today you're getting at the full sauce, not the

(12:10):
recipe, but the sauce, exactly. Plus.
Most people had already had somealcohol by that point, so.
So they wouldn't be able to appreciate like, you know.
The nuance of what we have to say.
And I wouldn't have been able togive it, but yeah, sinners.
So I think we talked about it before.
I think everyone mentioned. It very briefly during the

(12:32):
Thunderbolts episode. Yeah, but I think people would
know that we loved that movie. It was great.
What Are you ready to say now that you've had time for?
What am I ready to say? Yeah, because.
Last time we talked about on Thunderballs, you're like, you
know what? I don't know if I'm ready, so I
give out my full thoughts. I'm still processing it.
So have you processed it? I have processed sinners and I

(12:56):
think I have more to say now, but of course anything I say I
don't think is going to do it justice.
I have this really weird thing where I don't love talking about
movies that I really like because I feel like anything I
say is going to be completely inadequate.
Truthfully, that's part of the reason I've never been

(13:18):
consistent on YouTube because there are a lot of movies that I
really love. But, and I have ideas for
videos, but I just think if I make a video about The Batman
and I sit down to watch it, all I'm going to think is this is a
complete piece of shit and I'll take the video down and a year,

(13:39):
right. So that's that's that's
something I need to get over. Yeah.
You know, and it's also, I thinkit's it, it's more click baity
and engaging. Maybe not click baity, but it's
more engaging when people say like hate videos or rage videos,
like people would rather see whyI hate The Batman.
There are 10 points of why I hate The Batman versus This is

(14:01):
why I love the Batman or This iswhy The Batman is the cinematic
masterpiece. People want to see The Batman is
trash sequel cancelled. What's next with the with with
like a super click baity thumbnail with the guys mouth
open like that. You know, people want to see
that. People don't want to.
People don't want to see or readlike, you know, my love letter

(14:25):
to the Batman. I mean, some people do, some
people do, but the majority of people want to see the negative.
The issue is to that the algorithm I think incentivizes
the negative yeah, takes. So it's unfortunate.
All right, do you want to shit on sinners now or shit on
sinners later? I don't want to shit on sinners
at all because I do have criticisms of it, but I wouldn't

(14:50):
say I'm shitting on it. So that's one thing.
I'm. Going to shit on it right now.
OK, first thing we're, first thing I'm going to say about
Sanders is it was too short. It could have been long.
Really. I don't know I think that was a
joke but I I would not have beenupset or mad if the movie was
longer like I wanted more like II left the movie theater and

(15:12):
like now weeks later thinking about it like I would have liked
more. I'm going to rewatch it once it
comes out and DoD streaming, butI if there's a director's cut or
extended extended edition I would not be angry.
That's an interesting perspective.
I didn't think about that, if there would be a director's cut.
That's my only shit. But since you brought it up, I

(15:36):
am very surprised by that opinion, because if I have any
criticism of sinners, it is the pacing, which I guess isn't
necessarily an issue with the total runtime.
I never felt like I wanted to leave the theater right, But I
do think the movie had issues with its pacing, specifically

(15:58):
towards the end. Spoilers, I guess, for sinners.
Spoiler alert. I felt like the movie ended
about 5 different times and I would have liked a more
conclusive ending to such a goodmovie because it felt like there

(16:19):
was so much packed into this movie.
It had so many different ideas and I do think it addressed most
of them very well. But I think the one time that
kind of worked against the movieis the end, because you have the
ending with, I can't remember ifit was Smoke or Stack.
I think it was Smoke that lived with Smoke smoking the KKK guys.

(16:49):
And then you have the preacher boy who goes back to the church
and then decides not to be a church boy.
Yeah, he decides to not become aman of God, which fine with me.
And we see him taking off. Then of course, you have the

(17:09):
resolution with him and he's gotthe daughter, oh, the daughter
that spoke lost. He kind of is able to commune
with them in this afterlife. And then of course you have the.
I don't know if you would even call it a post credits scene.
I would call it a post credits scene because we were ready to

(17:29):
leave. Yeah, I.
Was already getting worse. I was standing.
Always standing. And then another scene pops up.
I'm like, oh, let me just sit down to the edge of my seat
because it's probably gonna be aquick 10 minute, 10 second
thing, then we're out of here. No, it was a scene.
Yeah, no, that those 10 seconds turn to 20, turn to 30.
And so I was like, I guess I'm gonna sit back down.
Yeah. So I think that that is really

(17:50):
my biggest issue with Sinners isI think the pacing is a little
off. This might be an unpopular
opinion. I prefer this the first half of
the movie. See if This is why.
We needed Victor here because, you know, he would have
advocated for that second-half. Yep.

(18:11):
Why? Because he's a professional
troll. And he was not.
He would have had a he he would have had a thought.
Why? He because he is the horror guy,
for one thing. Yep, interesting.
I, I I like both halves but but per.
What did you like more about thefirst half?
I like both halves. You just like.
You just enjoy like the setup. Like I think I what I really

(18:34):
enjoyed is how many hangout movies have you seen?
Is that movie series name or? No, this hangout is sort of an
unofficial genre of movies wherethere is no real plot, the
characters all just sort of. It's like a day in the life
adventure. The best example I can think of

(18:56):
that I know you've seen is Once Upon a Time in Hollywood.
That's basically a handout movie.
We're just seeing the lives of all these characters with Cliff
Booth and Sharon Tate and Rick Dalton.
And then there's another movie that I think is a really good
example, Licorice Pizza. That movie was controversial for
people, but I really liked it. I like this idea of just

(19:23):
spending quality time with characters in their setting,
wherever that may be, getting toknow them, learning about their
relationships with the other characters.
I don't know why that really appeals to me.
So I really liked the first half, but I I do also appreciate
what you just said, which is thesetup.

(19:45):
I think I was more invested in this almost sort of getting the
gang together aspect that the first half had.
It was almost like a heist moviein that sense, like we got to
find everybody to fit their respective role.
I was so in for that stuff. That's not to say I wasn't in
for the second-half, but I just thought the first half was

(20:09):
really enjoyable. It was fun.
It was an easy breezy pace and Ithink the filmmaking just really
augmented it with. Mentioned it in the Thunderbolts
episode but that one are tracking from 1 convenience
store to the other. Forget it man, I was just right.

(20:30):
I was having a good time, right?That's funny, because I'm
thinking you enjoy like the seven Ming everybody like my
thought process when I was seeing all these characters was
man, too bad they're all going to die at the end.
Because like the way, the very way that the movie opens up, you
see a preacher boy driving in like this, like which we find

(20:50):
out one like either stacks or smokes his car.
Like we find out the stack, the stacks car.
We we see preacher boy driving acar and you know, like after and
in the aftermath of the movie, all beat up and shit.
And then, you know, that's when the movie starts all over, like
the day before what happened. But we just from that scene
alone, I already knew like, Oh, shit went down.

(21:12):
So all the characters that we'regoing to meet, like once I saw
smoke and stacks pulling up in that red car, I was like, Oh,
that means they they died. That's why preacher boy came up
by himself. Which that's not really a
spoiler. If you watched like the first
two minutes of the movie, it's already heavily implied.
Like hey, only one guy made it out.
I'm going to ask you real quick because I think I've seen some

(21:33):
people have some strong opinionsabout this.
What do you think about movies that open with the ending and
then the core of the movie is going back and telling you how
we reached this point? I see why it's used.
It's a they use. They do it in books too.
Yeah, movies are not like the only.
No, I'm not. Yeah, this isn't a yeah, I see
it as a like as AI am in the context of a book or a

(21:56):
screenplay. I see it as like just like a
writing technique. This is just one way to craft a
story. You can you can tell a story in
chronological order or you can do it like that, start at the
end and then go back in time andtell a story that way.
Or you can do piece meal where it mixes in like the past,
present, everything in between. You don't know what's what until

(22:16):
you watch it several times. So I think there's different
ways to do it. So my thing is execution because
I can say the same thing. Sears I think it's a phenomenal
movie. It did the intro like I'm not
mad at it. I think it it prepared me for
like what the horror was going to be like.
Whereas this is a little misleading though exactly which
is why I. Kind of like that because it

(22:37):
misled me to thinking it was going to be more jump scary than
it really was versus Daredevil 2003 where it had like the same
thing. It started at the end, then we
told like from the beginning. But I think it's fair to say
that you don't like the first Daredevil movie.
So I think I can use that as an example.
I can use that as an example of like, oh, it's, it's just the

(23:00):
way of storytelling. Here's one example of them using
it good, IE Sinners. And here's one way of using it
bad, IE Daredevil 2003. Yeah.
Director's Cut. I agree with you.
I think it is. It's a storytelling technique.
It comes down to the execution. I wasn't bothered by it either,

(23:20):
but again, I'm not really bothered by what a lot of people
would consider spoiler elements to begin with.
So I I wasn't that hung up on it.
I will say, like I said, the beginning was misleading in the
sense that it led me to believe that this was going to be a very

(23:40):
sort of classic jump scare moviebecause you get 2 right off the
bat. Yep.
And it's a little interesting because the imagery that they
showed during those jump scares basically never see it again.
Nope. It's kind of it's interesting,
Yeah. Which I like because if Victor
was here, he would be like, you know, just talking shit or like,

(24:02):
you know, bullying me because when it comes to horror, I am a
bitch. I will bitch out like yo the
Victor, like let's go see Until Dawn.
It's quite a scary movie. Let's go watch Found
Destination. I don't be like have fun, So
when I was watching sinners, I genuinely like I saw like I like
as as per usual, I don't watch trailers.

(24:24):
I try not to. I saw the rated R attack.
I saw like, you know, Oh, right,R horror.
So I already expected like, oh, it's going to be scary shit.
Well, I want to watch it like itdoes look like an interesting
movie, so let me go watch it first two minutes.
Oh man, fuck this. Like this is what?
You're in like a rough ride, yeah.
I'm like, man, I'm like touchingmy pearls, Like, oh, man, I'm

(24:44):
fucked. It tricked me.
I was catfished because the restof the movie, yeah, they're
horror elements, but it wasn't there were no jump scares.
If anything, I don't know if that speaks to Ryan Coogler as
in either maybe he doesn't know how to direct the like a like a
truly scary scene like that, or if that's just how we want to do

(25:06):
it intentionally. Because I think there are some
directors where they try to do horror and it just, it looks
corny. And then there are some
directors who they know how to use horror and they know how to
like, you know, get the shot where like, it can have that
building tension, jump scare andthen like, you know, actually
like, yeah, pop out and get you.Have the payoff, yeah.
Whereas this one there, there was like no payoff.

(25:27):
It was more so just like we're going to tease the horror and
then cut the scene, which makes it more digestible for people
like me who yellow antsy with horror.
So people who people who like, you know, are fair scary movies,
the singers. It's like APG 13.
I don't know why it was rated R.Maybe like the sex?
Stuff or whatever, but I'll see.I was thinking the gore, but

(25:50):
honestly, to me the blood and gore effects were so clearly
CGI, yeah, that it didn't reallybother me.
Yeah, like I've seen worse on like, like on like I saw worse
on Invincible in the cartoon, Yeah.
I've, I would argue you see worse stuff and Tucker and Dale
versus evil, Yeah. Well, I think that one's also
rated RI think or is it repeat 13?

(26:12):
You know, that's good question. But but point being like I think
Sanders could've been PG13 so like I don't think it's not that
scary where like you have to, you know, cut your pills like I
did for the 1st 2 minutes, yes. But after that easy ride, smooth
ride. But this was an interesting
movie. It was, I'd heard a lot about it

(26:33):
and I primarily heard that people thought it was really
good. So it was on my radar.
I wanted to watch it. I just wasn't getting around to
it when it first came out. But you mentioned Ryan Coogler
in terms of whether he was intentionally direct in the

(26:55):
beginning that way, or maybe he's just doesn't have that
experience in horror. I think that's interesting
because I mentioned during the Thunderbolts episode, I think
this is easily, easily Ryan Coogler's best film.
It is, yeah. I, I I.

(27:15):
Agree and it somehow it is his first fully original movie,
which surprises me because I do think he's a talented director.
I again, I mentioned in, I thinkit was episode 9 of Below the
Line podcast that I really like Creed.

(27:38):
I think it's the best movie in the Rocky franchise.
Not crazy about Black Panther, but I understand why it had the
cultural impact that it did. I think Sinners is what people
think Black Panther is because you said you liked that the

(27:59):
movie was very black. Yes, I agree with you.
I like that it gave us that cultural perspective.
I just think this was way more significant than Black Panther.
Yeah, you know what? I see what you're saying and I
agree with you. It's too bad that this movie
doesn't have like the the Disneyor Marvel, you know,
advertisement marketing team behind it.

(28:20):
But I think word of mouth is spreading for this movie.
Like I do think in December at this year, this is going to be 1
of like the top 10 movies of this year, easily top five
currently. But we'll see like what comes
out maybe at the end of the year.
But currently, right now, it is like the movie of the year.
Yeah, we're not in awards bait season yet, but right now I

(28:42):
would definitely say it's probably the best film of 2025.
I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up on a lot of people's top
10 lists, but I think Sinners ismuch more indicative of not only
Ryan Coogler's talent, but I think it is just so much more
important for the black community in terms of what this

(29:07):
movie has actually done for filmmaking and cinema.
Because I do think I know this term is a little tough because
some people use it as kind of click baity material, but I do
think Sinners is actually revolutionary in some aspects.
So I think because it is and because it is such a pro black

(29:32):
film, I just think that it has more cultural and hopefully
historic relevance than Black Panther ever will.
But that's just my opinion that a lot of people are probably
going to bring the hammer on me down for.
And you'll quote this clip this five years from now.

(29:52):
Let's see what seniors is doing compared to Black Panther got
thinking five years like just one because of what you like.
One point to what you're saying.I think this movie does have
more cultural relevance and impact than than what Black
Panther will do or did do back then.
But two and five years from now,Marvel will put out so much shit
that like, people won't even go back to Black Panther,

(30:14):
especially after like, you know,Black Panther too.
Well I'm glad you brought that up because I know that you don't
like to read or watch reviews before you watch a movie and
neither do I. But after I watched the movie,
I'm watching everything. Oh yes, I'm reading everything.
Same. Except when iPod game, I don't
want, I don't want. I haven't watched true.

(30:35):
Yeah, many say, like I watched acouple, but then I was like, I
don't want to. Parrot.
Somebody else? 'S so I haven't watched any like
sinners or I mean, I've watched a few, like I said, but I
haven't watched too many of the sinners discussion or like
whenever we talk about like a new show, we're gonna talk about
Superman or Fantastic Four in the future.
OK, So avoid trailers and avoid discussions about that because I
do want to come in here with, you know?

(30:56):
Your thoughts? Yeah, my own original TM.
Thoughts. Yeah, I agree.
I don't want to come on here andsound like I'm just copying my
favorite YouTube critic deep focus lens.
I'm giving her a free plug because she's a she's a smaller
channel, but I, I honestly thinkshe's the most insightful film

(31:19):
critic on YouTube. That's just me, but plug, I
agree that I like to give you what I think are my original
thoughts. That's not to say somebody
hasn't said something similar tome.
They probably said it better, right?
But I'm glad you brought up the second Black Panther because one

(31:40):
of the videos I did watch about Sinners, he expressed some
concern about Ryan Coogoo's career after the release of
Black Panther 2 and when Sinnerswas released.
I guess if he had any reservations about it, it would
primarily stemmed from Wakanda Forever.
Right. And to be fair, like Wakanda

(32:02):
Forever was kind of was, I want to call it like a mistake, but
it was just unfortunate. It was just unfortunate timing,
like the passing of Chadwick Boseman reworking the script and
like just trying to incorporate everything while Black Panther
like was still relevant. Like it was just an unfortunate
situation. Like that movie, how it came
out, it came out, how it came out, could have been done better

(32:24):
if they had to give them more time.
But I think they did the best ofwhat they could.
So I wouldn't even put that on Ryan Coogler or Coogler.
I would just just call that. I would call that one an
unfortunate accident. Not an accident, just an
unfortunate, unfortunate situation.
I don't feel the same way about Eternals, but Caz in America,
the brave new world, I don't feel the same way about that.

(32:46):
I feel like they they, they just, they dropped the ball on
that one. But for the one we were talking
about, I'll give it a pass. I wouldn't I wouldn't like did
this. What kind of forever?
It's not a black mark on Ryan Coogler's career as a director.
That's what I'm trying. To say I agree, I think there
were extenuating circumstances with Wakanda Forever that made

(33:06):
it a difficult movie to make to begin with, but it is what it
is. I honestly, I don't think I'm as
critical of Wakanda Forever as some people, but I'm going to be
honest, a big part of that is because I just forget about that
movie. I just, I forget about so many

(33:27):
of these Marvel movies, but. I feel the way it like post post
end game like, which is sad, butit is what it is.
They're they're yeah, like afterThunderbolts.
Maybe they're gonna find their stride.
We'll see. I'm not too hopeful, but the
test. Screenings were fantastic for.
But I am cautiously optimistic because if they can give me
Thunderbolts in 2025, that give that gives me some hope for the

(33:50):
future. It's not like they're, it's not
like the DCU, which is giving you shit after shit, after shit,
after shit, after Wonder Woman, after shit, after shit, after
shit, after Snyder Cut. Yeah, after shit.
I think Blue Beetle came after that and that was.
It I was pretty OK with Blue Beetle.
I think I watched it in the background and I didn't care
much for it. Yeah.

(34:11):
And I think I think I should have cared more about it, you
know, because Latino representation.
But I just couldn't get I. Couldn't I?
I was pretty soft on Blue Beetlebecause it's the kid from Cobra
Kai, but also because I think itkind of Harkins back to the like
the Sam Raimi era of superhero movies.

(34:32):
It. Was what can't be for.
You. Yeah.
Do you like that? I did all right.
You know what? Maybe, maybe I'll give Blue
Beetle a rewatch. I'll watch it this time.
I'll just don't put it on the background.
Yeah, but unfortunately the testscreening is fantastic.
Four, based on what I'm hearing,not going well.
Yeah. That doesn't mean anything
technically, it's just it's the chatter, so.

(34:54):
And This is why Victor doesn't want to see Fantastic Four with
us because we're just going to be negative Nancies and.
He's going to renege on that, I guarantee.
You. Oh no.
We're going to kidnap him, that's what.
Yeah, exactly. We're going to force him.
Yeah, we're. Going to hang out like, hey,
let's go to the bar. Yeah, boom.
Ha, tricky motherfucker. We're at the movie theater.
I mean, it's, it's for the pod. We kind of have to.

(35:15):
And this is a great way to see if while Victor is sick right
now if he listens to this episode.
Hope you getting better. Exactly.
I hope you're getting better. I hope you.
Remember, take all the Zyrtecs, get all the allergies, wear a
mask when you go out. Restore your your pulmonary
health so. But yeah, back to sinners

(35:36):
anyways. The music.
The music. The music, I think I can gush
about the music for a long time just because I think 1.
The soundtrack is fucking fantastic.
I downloaded that soundtrack to my phone and I've played it a
couple times. I think I've played, I've played
a song around you at some. Point.

(35:57):
Yeah. You played it during the
weekend? Yeah.
So like, it's just the the soundtrack is great, but I also
think in terms of what the musicmeant in the movie.
I think music is a big part of like what the movie represents
is what it what it is trying to say.
Well, with that said, what do you think the movie is trying to

(36:17):
say? Because I know part of the
discussion with sinners is what is the the big take away from
this movie? Because obviously with a movie
that has this degree of social commentary, the discourse is
going to be, what's the take away from this, right?
And well, I think I'm going to clear out the obvious, like

(36:40):
obviously there is a social commentary.
Obviously there's the social commentary about black and white
people during that era. The movie was made during
prohibition area. I think it was in 1932332 around
that time. But it was prohibition era.
And you know, it was it was a representation of how black
people were treated back then. John Crow was thrown to effect.

(37:02):
No, Jim Crow was thrown to was thrown in effect.
And so yes, it has all these obvious points that people are
going to talk about. I don't want to talk about that
because people other people willtalk about that on YouTube with
these deep dive analysis, which this movie does deserve.
I think that commentary is there, but personally, what I
think the take away was was again, music.

(37:25):
And this is where my where I'm, I'm going to lean into it.
You know my common man shtick because I I'm not, I'm not going
to be the best at expressing my point because I'm not a YouTube
or a film critic or whatever, but the music.
Has a background in music. Thank you.
What what I think the music is doing is, or what the music

(37:48):
means, is it it transcends humannature or just humanity as a
whole? Because the whole, not the plot
per SE, but what the vampire wants is to get in touch or to
turn preacher boy into one of his own because he wants the
power that the preacher boy has,which apparently they never
really get into it. No, we sure talked about this in

(38:09):
the beginning, but apparently there's like some shamanism
powers that go along with music that is not really fully
explained. They talk about it in the very
beginning. Yeah.
And then there's a sequence in the middle of the movie where
Preacher boy just, you know, just sings his heart out and
like, he manifests like he. Shreds he.
Shreds the what? Is he playing a little banjo?

(38:30):
Whatever banjo, he stressed. That shit up and like he caused
the spirit of his ancestors cuz then you start hearing like
African folk music then you see like the old African tribes
dancing there too and then you cut like while the music is
still playing. This is 1 long ass music video
while that is playing, then we transition into like the future
or the present or hip hop and that is more relevant where you

(38:54):
see people break dancing and doing like that type of shit
while preacher boy is still singing.
Keep in mind yes. And then you go into like the
futuristic where it gets into like the electric guitars and
this type of shit and that wholescene it attract it caught the
eye of the the vampire. And that's all he wanted was he
want, I think he wanted to get in touch with his old, his old

(39:16):
ancestors, which he which he would get in touch through the
power of music. Because, you know, this movie
talks about music shamanism. So in this movie, this universe,
music shamanism is a thing. I'm, I'm probably saying that
wrong. It's probably not music
shamanism, but that's what I'm calling it.
Like there's some there's some magic with music.
And I think the movie makes it apoint because in the beginning

(39:38):
it talks about music. The whole movie, just one
beautiful ass soundtrack of music playing.
And at the very end of the movie, post credit scene, how
does it end with music? So I think music is at the core
crux of what this movie is trying to say, like how music
can bring people together. Yes, there are going to be
deeper takes about the social political commentary, but I

(40:01):
think the music cannot be understated.
I agree with you and I think that was well said.
Honestly, I do think that a major part of Sinners is
celebrating music as an art form, as something that
transcends time and space. It plays such an important role

(40:23):
in the movie. And one thing I would say is you
mentioned how all The Maine vampire did was really his
primary motivation was to connect with his ancestors
because he heard Preacher Boy shred that banjo.

(40:43):
And I think that kind of ties into something that I wrote down
about Sinners, which is that I think part of what Ryan Coogler
was, I don't know if this was his intention.
This is maybe just something I took away from the movie.
I think one of the claims he's making here in Sinners is that

(41:07):
when we engage with authentic work, we can commune with the
entire history of the medium, regardless of what that is.
And I think it is best exemplified in that scene where
Preacher Boy plays that specificsong and we bring in the

(41:28):
elements of the past, present, and future.
It's hard for me to put into words, but I know I feel like I
know what the intention of that scene was that when you hear, I
don't, I hate to use this term because it's, it's overused by a

(41:48):
bunch of edgelords on on the Internet.
But when you hear real music, you can somehow on a spiritual
level, sort of connect to the entire history of this medium.

(42:09):
And I agree with you. I think that's that's special.
I think the movie is celebratingthat fact, right?
Even though there is this element in the movie of you
called it musical shamanism, I think what I'm going to call it
is magical realism, which again,that's just kind of a

(42:30):
storytelling device. But the reason I I use that term
is because smokes love interest.I forget her name at the moment.
She kind of displays that sort of Bayou voodoo.
Yeah, magic stuff. So that's why I'm calling it

(42:51):
magical realism, because I have a feeling that whatever she does
is sort of connected in some wayto why music is able to do this
in the movie. Right.
Or like her magic powers do work.
No, they do. Yeah, we see it.
Yeah, we see it. That's interesting.

(43:12):
You know what? I'll even say it right now.
Like, I don't even think the vampire was a racist.
So I don't think people can sit.I don't think people who would
make the argument that this is just a representation for the
white man coming to take over the black people's jukebox.
I don't even think that this is that because I don't even think
the vampire saw colour. He was, he was even transforming

(43:32):
black people into vampires. If he only saw colour, he don't
want white people as vampires, he would first of all, he would
not have even heard Preacher Boy's music or resonated with it
like he did. And second of all, I think it's
very poignant that the vampire, besides being white, he was
Irish. And I think like now that I'm
kind of connecting it like he was probably, well, not probably

(43:55):
he was, he was more than likely an, an Irish immigrant.
So he wasn't exposed to like theslavery and like the how America
was brought up during that era. Frankly, he probably dealt with
his own hardships back in Ireland.
Because I know they experienced like their own type of poverty,
their own type of poverty aroundmaybe like not in this time, but
they, they also had their own problems, which is why they

(44:16):
emigrated to America. He's here now.
So he's, he's, he's not like your standard white American.
He's also like a foreigner. It's very intentional, like he's
Irish. Exactly.
And and I don't think he's not even, he's not even a racist and
and nor is he presented to be a racist.
He he really is. Just like if this was in modern

(44:37):
times, he would really just be like a white dude just trying to
kick it at the black people's BBQ.
That's all he's trying to do, like he's just trying to chill
with them and he doesn't even see like their colour.
He's just like hears the music, he sees the vibes and like hey
guys, I want a vibe too. And it gets a little banjo with
this little group. Pick more Robin Clean like goes
into his own little shtick whichI love that song too.

(44:59):
Yeah, I agree with the premise of your argument, obviously,
because I noticed when we were watching the movie that he was
obviously Irish. He has the accent.
And I do believe he makes a comment about immigrating to

(45:20):
America. Maybe I'm misremembering that,
but I don't remember. I think he makes a comment about
that. But the point is, I do agree
with you because I don't think similar to what you just said.
I don't want to make it sound like I'm stealing your take
here, but I don't think it is assimple as the white man comes to

(45:46):
invade a purely black space. That was the Juke joint in this
movie. I think Remic being Irish and
whether or not he does allude tohim being an immigrant, that is
a very intentional choice. And I really think that Coogler

(46:08):
handled Remic and the vampires in general really well because
Irish people, similar to what you just said, historically are
a group that have been oppressedas well.
Not just with the issues they'vehad over there, but then coming

(46:30):
here to the United States. That's why I think the sort of
question at the heart of Sinnersis whether or not it's possible
to exist as a product of your culture in the United States
without selling out. And the reason I word it that
way is because over the weekend,when we talked to the person who

(46:53):
was interested in our take on Sinners, I told him that with
Remic being Irish, that is an example, in my opinion, of
another group of people whose sort of cultural traditions and
norms have been appropriated by the United States.

(47:15):
The big example being Saint Patrick's Day is it's now just
an excuse to get faced. It's lost all of its original
meaning. I'll be completely honest with
you, I don't even know what Saint Patrick's Day is supposed
to be. Me neither by just celebrate it
if if it's. Something to do with?

(47:35):
It is like a St. like it is. That's probably.
Exactly why I know nothing about.
It right? But yeah, so I think that that
is very intentional. The Irish are another group of
people who have had their cultures, sort of.
Appropriated, yeah. Appropriated in the US for
profit. And I do think that's whether or

(47:58):
not that is the lesson to take. I'm using air quotes, even
though you can't see whether or not that is the lesson to take
away from this movie. That is the question that I
ended up thinking about right asI sat with this.
I know. I think, like you said earlier,
that I think that is very intentional, which that just
adds layers to like what this movie already is.

(48:20):
Because yes, it's not yes, it islike a black film, but it also
explore, it's also juxtaposed with the Irish because that's
also like another reflection of like, hey, this is another
culture that has been appropriated by the US.
If anything, I would say it's probably like a more of a
minority type of thing because Ireland is just one country,
whereas like African Americans and and just slavery in general

(48:43):
was like a whole like it was like a bigger thing in the US.
So that's probably why like theythat's probably why like this
movie focuses why it focuses more on the black side, because
we we always get movies when they focus on like on the past,
it's usually go from a white perspective.
This time it was told from a black perspective with a layer
of white through the representation of the Irish

(49:05):
dude, which, come on, that's layers.
It is. It's really interesting because
one thing that I would mention too, is the reason I was
hesitant to just call Remic an outright villain is, and again,
this is not me coming at the critics or the Youtubers who

(49:28):
have said this, but the reason Idon't think the vampires are a
force of racism. I think they're more of a
complicated adversary. But the reason I say that is
because the movie does make the distinction by including the
KKK, because they're obviously an example of true overt racism.

(49:50):
And Remic is, I just don't know if he's a villain so much as
he's also a victim who's kind oflooking to, like you said,
connect with his people or maybeeven some kindred spirits.
Maybe he recognizes that black people have also gone through a

(50:12):
similar situation that his people have.
It's not just not to say that I'm drawing an equivalency
between them, but I'm I'm just in the context of the movie,
there's a parallel. Yeah, yeah.
And what's crazy is that we don't even know what the too
much of the back story of. Yeah, of the average vampire, he

(50:32):
just shows up and like that's when like the plot starts
because he starts converting people into vampires, but we
don't know like where how old ishe?
Where did he? Obviously he's from Ireland, but
we don't know like from what erawas did he come?
Was he is he a new vampire? Is he an old vampire?
Like the vampire lawyer is very.Like it's, it's ambiguous, it's.

(50:53):
Ambiguous, but it's there because it does follow like the
vampire logic of they won't, they can't come inside unless
you invite them in. You know, some vampire logic, I
think. I don't know if it's garlic or
silver that's still worked or not.
Stick to the heart. Yeah, stick to the heart.
They do use garlic though, because remember.
They Oh yeah, they see the garlic.
So like there is vampire lore and like the mythos is still

(51:14):
there, is just told through a different perspective.
Speaking of layers, when you mentioned that Remic was just
randomly introduced, sort of, I don't even know, maybe 1/4.
I don't even think 1/4. I think this scene.
Was it was like a farm and nakedor naked but just man rent to

(51:35):
the field saying help helped after me after me.
I knew he was a vampire because of the way his skin was kind of
what was funny. I thought he.
Was a off I thought he was a victim and the one chasing him
when he was like hell help I thought they were the.
But see, I'm so glad you mentioned his introduction
because this is something I did not write in my notes.

(51:56):
I have two sources of notes here.
I should, I should just pick a format here.
But the point is, I'm really glad you brought up the
introduction because something Ireally wish that Ryan Coogler
would have elaborated on was theinclusion of the Indigenous
people. I thought that was really cool
because my reading of that scenewas that they clearly knew what

(52:19):
he was. Because remember when they
suspected that that couple was hiding Remic, the leader of that
group there, he told them, let'sget out of here because he saw
the sun going down. It felt to me like they knew
what was going on. Yeah, obviously historically

(52:39):
Indigenous people are a very spiritually connected group of
people, and I think it would have been really interesting to
integrate them into the story. I know that's a big ask, but
hey, maybe director's cut like you said.
See what what I say You're shitting on the movie too.
It's just been longer. I'm seeing.
I'm winning you over. You are.

(53:01):
Because that's. I just think that would have
been a really cool thing becausethen you have these three
different perspectives, right? Like you said, you have a white
one with nuance, primarily a black one.
And then if you bring in this indigenous aspect, I.
Think they have been. Appropriate.
Yeah, I think there's really interesting story there.

(53:21):
Sinners, Part 2. I'm getting so excited thinking
about this. Yeah, what sucks is that like,
yeah, I'm I'm making Joe like Sinners Part 2, but this should
not have No, no, no, no, no, no,this this movie just it make a
director's cut include include our shit pay us Ryan Kooser yes,
at find me at below line podcast.

(53:41):
Yeah, but yeah, that would that would have been that honestly
that that would have made this movie even better.
I am so glad you brought that upthough, because that that really
stood out to me. And even just though the way he
appeared and then that like thatscene where he converted like
two people, that the two people that let him inside the house,

(54:03):
yeah, he converted them into vampires.
That was like the first scene because throughout prior to
that, the movie had been. Built.
There was no no horror. Yeah, at all.
So. What the introduction of the
vampire that would make us the beginning of Part 2 of the
second-half. Because prior to that, oh, the
movie was just, it's like jolly good time.
Yeah, like I said, it's a it's ahangout movie.
Yeah, first half you're just you're.

(54:25):
Just watching these guys play like their banjos, play their
harmonicas like singing the. Blues like talking.
Yeah, it was. And.
Then boom, actually run into like a farm, you know, smoke.
Now I think about it, I guess there was smoke coming out of
him. And and then point my, my point
is when they get to that scene where he, he's gonna, he's gonna

(54:45):
like, you know, convert the, thegirl to a vampire.
I, I, this is where I thought that, oh, it's gonna be a jump
scare. It's gonna be horror.
Yeah. And this is where I said that
like, oh, where I made the comment that Ryan Coogler, maybe
he was not like experienced and like making like the shot like
or making like the payoff there.And I remember that scene where
the lady calls for her husband, husband doesn't answer.

(55:07):
She walks through a dark house all alone.
It is opens the door that like ahorror.
Movie. Yeah, it's scary.
The music is there. You open the door, you're
expecting a jump scare. You see the vampire there
covered in blood cuz he just killed the husband blah blah
blah blah and then he looks at her and she screams and it's
like oh shit he's going to do itto her cutscene next scene.

(55:29):
Yeah. And that's what I mean like it
didn't show like the payoff of it converted her and it does
this for like I think most of the conversions.
When it does, yeah. When he when he bites.
The the actor Hailee Steinfeld like it shows like the him
approaching her, but it doesn't show the payoff.
I think that was actually one ofthe creepier scenes when he
jumped. He's just slow.

(55:50):
Yeah, in the. Air kind of floats in the air.
That was, I thought, one of the more unsettling scenes,
actually. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So that, yeah, there were this movie, it still found ways to be
unsettling. Yeah.
But it was also at the same time, it was not.
It didn't lean into so much thathorror, the element that I

(56:11):
thought it was going to do it catfish me in the beginning, you
know, with that jump scare. It's interesting though, because
as much as I say I like the first half and I, I, I would say
I prefer the first half, I'm going to watch it again as well.
I think that first half is just so fun, so enjoyable.

(56:32):
It's so rich in character and and the aesthetic and in
direction. Obviously this movie is a a
spectacle. I think it hopefully several
years from now this will be viewed as an American epic.
Clip it five years from now. Clip it, Yes.

(56:54):
So as much as I like the first half, I will say the one thing
about the second-half is I was at a certain point ready for the
fuck yeah kill em all action that I knew was coming, right,
because I do think the movie earned that.
They took their time to establish the vampires and the

(57:18):
threat and everything that went into that.
So by the time the movie was getting ready to have that big
third act action scene, I was, Iwas so ready for that, right?
You know what? I'll, I'll, I'll have something
else to shit on. You know what?
That. I'm glad you brought it up.
Like that big epic fight. I loved it.

(57:39):
I just hate the way it started. How did it start?
Oh my God. This one lady who we met at the
beginning of the movie, she's like she runs a grocery store
with her husband. Her husband converts to a
vampire and she's like, no, my husband, fuck you motherfuckers.
Come inside. I invite you in the house.

(58:00):
The barnyard they're is surrounded.
There's only like 5 or 6 people left and they're all like holed
inside and inside and the vampires can't get to them
because, you know, vampire lore.And also because smokes love
interest, her Juju Mcgumbo clearly works like you said.
And so they're all protected. They just have to last until
like the sun comes out. But no, this bitch, she's like,

(58:22):
fuck you, come inside. And you know.
What she does all that for what?Spoiler alert.
But we said spoilers earlier butspoiler alert she only kills 1
vampire and then she goes like she, she, she, she gets caught
on fire and dies in the blazing glory but she only got 1 kill.
So it's like you open the gates for this big ass, like you know,

(58:43):
fuck yeah kill them all scene where everybody else got more
than one kill besides you. I'm glad you brought up how that
started though, because another criticism I have of sinners and
this shows how deep my disdain for Marvel actually runs.
The thing that I hated the most about Sinners was that they gave

(59:07):
him a sort of superhero assembling shot before the
vampires broke into the barn. Do you know what I'm talking
about? They gave that shot and
everybody steps into frame and they kind of line up in this
very clear formation. I was like, oh come on, in this
movie. We don't need that.

(59:30):
But besides that, but to be fair, like, you know, in every
horror movie, there's always like that one dumb fuck that
everybody true. So maybe like cuz I was thinking
about it, I was upset, but then I was like, wait, but to be
fair, if this is a horror movie,this is a trope.
Like it's off because everythingwas hitting everything was
perfect. If anything, this movie was too

(59:51):
perfect. It needs to have it needs to
have like that fuck up. Like you know what we need one
dumb character to fuck everything up and she fucked
everything up. I mean, good.
I still want at the end of the day, yeah.
Right, though that is a horror trope.
There is always that idiot. And you know what?
I thought it was going to be. It was fucking the, the the door
guard. The guard door the dude.
Yeah, yeah. The door bread.

(01:00:12):
Yeah. Cornbread.
Well. They portrayed him as not the
sharpest guy. Yeah, Out the movie, Yeah, he
was just kind of the muscle. Yeah, but he's not the one that
fucked up everything. No, he's not.
Poor guy. What a way to go.
Yep. But even then, like ah man, this
movie is great in that it slowlythat you saw the vampire build

(01:00:33):
up his army and at 1st and I'm realizing this now as I'm
talking about it just every timeI talk about this movie, just
more thoughts come. Out.
Yeah, I know what you mean because I just thought of
something as well. See, so when when the vampire
for his his, he first tries to get into the jukebox, he's
there's only three of them. So they do like the first song.
It's just a trio, nice little folksy song.

(01:00:56):
And I love that song. And it's like, yeah.
And then they when he starts converting more, he has another
song and it gets bigger and bigger.
Like by the time we do like the Irish song, it's it's like it's
a whole cacophony of just peoplesinging and dancing.
They. They got the choreography.
And everything. And I really like that.
If you just saw his small, I guess like his, his rise to
power. But even then, it was all

(01:01:17):
connected to music. All you wanted was just Preacher
Boy's song. Yeah.
Like yes, it probably would havehurt preacher boy, you know,
like I turned to a vampire, he bit me and then reborn as a
vampire. But I don't think that dude, the
vampire would have mistreated the blacks or the whites any
different. I think he would have seen them
all as like we're all birds and sisters now.

(01:01:38):
Yeah, that was the implication he was making.
Yeah, throughout the movie. Which is so it's like, it's
interesting the way that vampires or vampire, this
vampire is portrayed. He's like a not a benevolent
vampire, but he doesn't seem as like malicious, I should say.
Yeah, he's not presented in a malicious way.

(01:02:00):
Remic is the prime example of someone who could either be a
victim of America's intolerance or assimilate at the expense of
his culture's soul. That's what I would say.
That's the, that's, that's me musing.

(01:02:20):
I'm glad that you said the more you talk about this, the more
thoughts come up, because something that I just thought
about was the relationship between Stack and his
girlfriend, because they obviously touch on the idea of
interracial relationships. And that's the main conflict
between them throughout the movie.

(01:02:41):
And it's something that I thought was done pretty well.
I mean, I was pretty invested intheir relationship, to be honest
with you, right? Which?
It was a really disgusting scenebetween those two that was a
little too far for me, but which?

(01:03:01):
Thing. The spit scene, no, it was fine
until that happened. I'm like, OK, whatever.
Similar to what you said, horrormovie, they got to have one
dumbass horror movie got to havea sex scene.
But when the spit thing was brought in, I was like there was

(01:03:24):
an I let out an audible grow. With your kink I got.
It was like, what are they doing?
Bro, that's funny. Oh my God, it's too much.
Right. Oh, this movie is such a good,

(01:03:44):
good movie, though, because I mentioned this in the
Thunderbolts episode, but I'll say it again.
I Throughout the movie, The score complements the structure
of the story extremely well because the first half where
everybody is just having fun, you're getting the gang

(01:04:04):
together. The music is all acoustic.
It's very bluesy, it's folksy. It's it sounds timeless in the
sense that it's the kind of music that would be passed down
from generation to generation. And then as we get into the
second-half with the vampires and the stakes raise and we get

(01:04:29):
into the the big third act showdown, we get more electric
guitar, we get more synths. It's just a heavier sound.
And I think that was integrated really well.
It is just a wonderful complement of the audio visual
storytelling. And I don't know if you noticed

(01:04:51):
this, but there were several scenes where 2 characters would
be speaking, but there would be sound design in the movie that
was not In Sync with the scene. And that's not to say it was a
mistake. I think it was very intentional.
It was like the movie, especially in the theatre, you

(01:05:15):
would hear things like screams or just these obscure sounds,
even though the scene was not that right.
So this movie plays with sound design and music in a way that a
lot of movies don't. It shows how important all of
this stuff is to the art form offilmmaking.

(01:05:40):
Because I think it's very easy to sort of assume that the most
important things to this medium are the visual aspects and the
performances, right? Man, like if this way this way,
I kind of come out like in like the fall where it says this is
Oscar bait and like I want to make that joke that this is

(01:06:00):
Oscar babe. But in the in the joke in the
sense that I think this movie really is like one I would call
it a film. I mean I call all movies film,
but film like it makes it sound like, you know, more more
grander than it really is. But I really did feel like this
was a film. This was obviously there's like

(01:06:20):
a lot of passion behind it, not just from the cast, like we
haven't even talked about the cast yet, but the director, the
writing, It was very, it was very passionate, like piece of
work. And everyone put their effort
into it, not just to make like just a movie, just like make
money, but an actual movie, justlike just do something for the
art and do something for the culture.

(01:06:42):
And like, that's why I made the joke that this is this movie's
kind of Oscar baby. It's not, but just the, the
impact that it has and what it'strying to do is.
Why? Sorry.
No, go ahead. I was gonna say.
I was just gonna say I don't think like people who are
talking about that enough. Yeah, I agree.
I don't think they are either because this is such a good

(01:07:04):
movie. But real quick, my hot take is
most Oscar bait movies are actually pretty good.
People just don't want to sit down to watch them because they
do associate the Oscars with this sort of pretentious, sort
of stuffy attitude. But I think in general, most

(01:07:25):
movies that are nominated for awards are actually really good.
I I try to watch every single nominee for Best Picture every
year, if not when they come out,but at the very least before the
Oscars ceremony. I don't think there have been
too many Best picture nominees where I've said this is a

(01:07:48):
complete disaster. I don't understand why this was
even nominated. There's definitely been a few,
but in general I think most awards movies are pretty good.
It's just people. They can't get over that
generalization right. Oscar bait movies, but I.
Do also think that there are a lot or not a lot, but there are

(01:08:10):
movies that you can tell that come out basically like at the
deadline. Yeah.
So it's just like the way they're made.
It's like like the symbolism, the American pictures on it.
It's like there are some movies that you can tell this is This
is why the stereotype was born. The the the story of a character
who has to overcome some sort oflife obstacle, whether it's a

(01:08:31):
physical disability or something.
Yeah. And it's usually it has to like
heavily have some American patriotism, whether it's like
I'm going to say Top Gun Maverick, but I want to say
like, like those type of movies,Dunkirk 1917 like.
Those type of movies like. When they're released, like at
that certain point and the way they're marketed, it's like, all

(01:08:52):
right, come on, like it probablyit is a good movie.
I haven't seen them but. I was not crazy about 1970s.
But like the way they were marketed and like the way people
were talking about them, it's like, oh, the Oscar, this is
great, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
It's like, all right, all right.I completely understand what you
mean because there is a a very specific type of movie, yeah,

(01:09:14):
that tends to get nominated for Oscars.
But I do think there is a difference between sort of
prestige movies and then genuineOscar bait.
Like I think a good example of Oscar bait is The King's Speech.
That is the most blatant attemptto win an Oscar that I've seen

(01:09:35):
in a long time, right? I, I didn't really care for it,
but that's not what we're here to talk about.
But the point is, I think a lot of those awards movies are
actually pretty good. But there definitely are some
duds. I can acknowledge that.
So I'm not trying to discredit those people who say I've never

(01:09:58):
heard of these movies, right? You haven't.
You probably haven't. But I think in general most of
them actually pretty good. I swear if Singers is not even
nominated for anything in the Oscars, oh bro I'm a flip.
I'm telling you right now, clip this guys, clip this.

(01:10:23):
It's going to receive a nomination for Best Sound
Design, Best Sound Mixing, Cinematography, Editing and Best
Picture. Bro, what's crazy is that I
don't even watch the Oscars, so I like I, I know the last star
award you just mentioned, but the other ones I'm like, I
didn't know that those were fucking categories.

(01:10:45):
Fucking best sound design mixing.
Yeah, that's a fucking category.Yeah, yeah, they have sound
design and then sound editing. So you get like, you get like
those little like a little trophy for that.
Yeah. Yeah.
See, I didn't know that. Yeah, Top Gun Maverick One
common sound design. See, I I can believe that, yeah.

(01:11:06):
I watched the Oscars religiouslyevery year even though they
pissed me off every year. That's funny 'cause I feel like
wasn't it the, I don't know if it's the Oscars or is it the
some other award ceremony that like declining viewership every
year after? That's the Oscars at the Oscars.
I thought there was another one.They are losing people by the

(01:11:27):
year like crazy every single year.
And the Oscars just can't be normal, dude.
Like, there's so much. This is going to be a complete
tangent, but we have time. Let's get into it.
Yeah. So I don't know if you've heard
about the infamous La La Land incident in the 2017 Oscars.

(01:11:48):
They go up to announce best picture.
They open the envelope, they announce La La Land as the best
picture winner. And then they say, oh, wait,
hold on, they had the wrong envelope.
They bring out another envelope.Moonlight is actually the best
picture winner after the La La Land producers have already gone

(01:12:09):
up there to accept the award. And the Oscars just keep doing
this. Like they just can't have a
normal ceremony. The year before that there was a
controversy about all of the nominees being predominantly
white. The Oscars.
So white controversy. You have the La La Land thing.

(01:12:30):
In 2022, Will Smith slapped Chris Rock, who was hosting the
Oscars. They just can't get through the
fucking ceremony without it being a complete disaster in one
way or the other. But it's not just that.
I will say, for as much as I just defended all of these
awards movies, if you want people to watch the Oscars, you

(01:12:55):
need to nominate movies that people actually watch.
Right. You because the issue is with
Oscar campaigns, and I hate to say this, but it's the truth.
It's a matter of how much money you sink into your campaign,
depending on how much money the studio has to campaign their

(01:13:16):
movie for Best Picture, best screenplay, whatever, that's a
huge factor in whether or not you're going to win.
And another problem is all of the members of the Academy, they
don't even watch all of the BestPicture nominees every single
year. You will see an article from The
Hollywood Reporter where they interview members from the

(01:13:38):
Academy anonymously and they'll be some Jackass who's like, oh,
I didn't even watch dude. I couldn't get through it.
It was way too long. This happens every single year
and you can't have that. Like if you're members that are
supposed to represent the group of people who celebrate

(01:14:02):
Hollywood on its biggest night, the ultimate celebration of the
art form, if they can't be bothered to watch every single
best picture nominee, what are we doing?
Right? What are we doing?
So in my opinion, if you want people to watch the Oscars, the
solution is very clear. Nominate movies people watch.

(01:14:25):
A couple years ago, they proposed a solution where they
basically have an art house track and then a populist track.
So there would be two Best picture winners, one for the
hardcore cinephiles and then onefor the common people.
Yeah. So for example, a couple years
ago, you'd give the artsy best picture to Oppenheimer, and then

(01:14:50):
if you want a populist movie best picture, give it to Barbie.
Exactly. But they didn't end up going
through with that. In my opinion, you just need to
nominate popular movies. Don't do that, because then I
think if you create the tracks, you're opening up whole new can
of worms there. Just nominate movies that people

(01:15:14):
have watched. A couple years ago, Top Gun
Maverick was nominated for Best Picture.
And I honestly think if they gave it to Top Gun Maverick, you
win everybody back immediately, right?
Because that movie was so beloved.
I feel like I've mentioned this movie in the past 500 episodes,

(01:15:34):
yes. But the.
Point. Is hey guys, you think they're
in life talking to Maverick? Leave it coming.
Yeah, Let me know what do I think about that movie.
Yeah, just love it. But the point is because it was
so beloved not just by the cinephiles, but by the average
movie goer. I honestly believe if the

(01:15:57):
Academy had marched up there, said the winner for best
Picture, Top Gun Maverick, right, everybody loses their
minds because people will say, oh, they nominated a real
fucking movie. And I hate saying real movie
because similar to what you justsaid, I am someone who if I

(01:16:21):
think a movie is lesser, I'll just call it a movie.
If I respect it, I'll call it a film.
Sinners is a film. Marvel movies.
Those are movies. Right, you just call it Marvel.
Movie. Yeah, exactly.
So I honestly believe if they had done that, they win
everybody back. And what's crazy is all of this

(01:16:42):
started when they failed to nominate The Dark Knight for
Best Picture in O 9, because again, that was the situation
where everybody loved that movie.
I mean, you still like The Dark Knight.
You still hold it in high regard.
And I, I wouldn't even say that I dislike it.
It's just that I think the Batman is a better Batman movie.

(01:17:03):
But the point is, I'm sure you remember because I I don't know
if that was a formative cinematic experience for you the
way it was for me. Yeah, it was interesting
because, well, for me, quite quick break, it was a PG13
movie. I was obviously above the age,
but my my siblings weren't. So it was a weird situation

(01:17:25):
where I think at the time we were in Vegas for something and
I could I could go to some movies, but my siblings
couldn't. So it was like, oh, I guess
we're not watching it here. So I didn't get to see until we
came back. OK.
So I didn't get, like, the full cinematic experience opening
weekend, Yeah. When you saw it in a theater,
was that sort of an experience where you realize there's

(01:17:48):
something different about this movie?
Yes, yes. OK, so see, the point is you
remember the cultural phenom that was The Dark Knight.
Everybody loved that movie. It was the only movie that was
on more top ten list than The Dark Knight in 2008 was Wall-e.
Damn. OK.

(01:18:09):
And the point is the Academy didnot nominate The Dark Knight for
Best Picture, and when they didn't, people were up in arms.
At the time there were only 5 Best picture nominees.
So then what the Academy did was, OK, let's let's have 10
nominees because that was their way to try and remedy what

(01:18:30):
everybody saw as their mistake. And then they changed it.
They said, let's do a sliding scale.
There could be anywhere from 5:00 to 10:00, but they always
end up nominating 10. Now people are saying it needs
to go back to five. So there's just so much they
just can't get it right. But I honestly think it is as

(01:18:51):
simple as nominating movies thatpeople watch.
Nominate if it's good. Nominate Superman for something.
Give people a reason to care. Right to tune into the Oscars.
Yeah. I mean, that was longer than I
thought it would be, but. But you hear hear folks, you

(01:19:12):
heard of now hear folks for the first time ever.
You guys now know what the purpose of below the Below the
Line podcast is. We are here to get Dylan into
the workings of the Oscars. We're going to get them.
We're going to it's going to be an over deep, deep cut.
We've been in episode 12, but byepisode 2020, boom, we'll be in

(01:19:35):
the Oscars. Yeah, I will be a member of the
Academy, I promise you. I will watch every single Best
Picture nominee. I already do it and I'm not
getting paid for it. Yeah, and you already?
Have like such like deep opinions about everything you
watch anyway. So it's like if they give you 10
movies, you're going to have 10 deep thoughts about every single

(01:19:56):
movie. It's going to be easy for you to
pick out which 5 or which one you like and why.
And see, that's how the Best Picture nominee goes is you have
to rank them from one to 10. Whoever get whichever movie gets
the most #1 rankings. That's the Best Picture winner.
And if you don't watch all 10 movies, how can you rank them?

(01:20:17):
Honestly, you're just going to put the ones you watched at the
top right? Man, it's just such a.
That's a mess. It's a.
It's a terrible system. Man, no wonder.
Like, no wonder. Like viewership is going down.
Yeah, really. You watch them religiously.
Thus, like you're, you're one ofthe few supporters.
It's I have a toxic relationshipwith the Oscars.

(01:20:37):
I know they're either gonna let me down, disappoint me, or piss
me off, but I watch them anyway.All right, that's fair enough.
You know, as a like, I feel likeas a film film snob that you
are, and as like you watch otherYoutubers and content creators,
so you're in that space. So like you have to watch the

(01:20:57):
Oscars thing. It's kind of part of your job.
It kind of is you. Don't agree with it.
You'll still have to like, hey, so what's your opinion?
Like why? How do you feel about them
choosing this movie over that movie and blah, blah, blah,
blah, Yeah. Yeah, it is I I definitely had
some thoughts about the whole Emilia Perez situation this year

(01:21:18):
at the Oscars. I don't even know what the
situation is because I don't watch the Oscars and pretty
tough. What is that situation?
I OK, Are you ready for this? I'm.
Ready. There is a movie called Emilia
Perez that is about a Mexican drug cartel boss who wants to
transition into being a woman. That's not why it's ridiculous.

(01:21:40):
This movie is also a musical andduring the transition scene, I
kid you not there is a song where one of the characters says
she does it in the sing song. I want to know about sex change
operation. And then the doctor is walking

(01:22:01):
alongside her and he says from woman to man, from man to woman,
and I'm. Like this is not a real fucking
movie, but. It's not just that.
It's that the movie somehow insults every single thing that
it wants to comment on because it wants to comment on the

(01:22:22):
immigration experience of immigrating to America.
It wants to champion Mexicans, it wants to champion trans
rights, but it somehow manages to be offensive to Mexicans,
trans people, women, all of these groups.
It is somehow the most regressive movie I've seen in a
long time. And the worst part is on the

(01:22:45):
surface level, I can see the theexecutives at Netflix when this
movie was being pitched like, oh, yes, yes, I see it.
It's coming together. It's brilliant.
It's like it wins so many awards.
It got the most Oscar nominations, but there was so
much blowback from this movie. When what?

(01:23:05):
Yes. When didn't we come out?
Last December. Oh fuck.
It's on Netflix. Oh shit.
Yeah, unfortunately I've watchedit.
But the point is. But this movie has the second
most Oscar nominations in history.
It got 12 nominations. I think those have to be trolls

(01:23:27):
or. No, dude, crazy.
The point is though, this movie got so much blowback.
There was so much controversy and the perhaps the craziest
thing is that the actress who portrayed the the main character
in the movie was actually a trans woman.
But of course, as the Internet wants to do, they dug up tweets

(01:23:47):
of hers from 1015 years ago and found that she said all of this
offensive stuff. She was banned from even
attending the Oscar ceremony. There was so much controversy
that they the Academy basically could not award this movie any
Oscars because if they did and they but at the same time, if

(01:24:08):
they didn't award it any at all,they'd look like a bunch of
pussies because they nominated it for 12 awards, right?
I mean, that's, that's wow. What's crazy is as I'm
explaining it, I know I'm forgetting things.
It was so much worse than what I'm describing.
I fuck I made a Patreon video about why Amelia Perez was such

(01:24:32):
a disaster, but check that out at Nightfall Films.
Plug. Yeah, but dude, did.
The Oscars are so far gone. I mean, this year was probably
the worst because this whole controversy about Amelia Perez
was truly the biggest train wreck I've ever seen.
That's great. It so much before the ceremony,

(01:24:57):
so much after the ceremony. It's just I've never seen
anything like it. It is so strange.
And then just the movie itself, it's just it, it's sort of is
like vaguely antagonistic towards men because the
implication is that once she transitions into being a woman,

(01:25:21):
she's somehow absolved of all the terrible things she did as a
cartel crime boss, right? And then there's just this weird
subplot where she still wants tobe with her kids and the God
remembering. Another line of dialogue bro
like. You're you.

(01:25:41):
Honestly, you're kind of making me want to watch this movie.
I'm gonna even. Though I know I, I know I
shouldn't. I'm gonna cut this out, but
there is a line where Selena Gomez says I miss the way you
make my no movie. This is it is the most baffling

(01:26:04):
fucking cinematic experience I've ever had.
I mean, when I was watching it, I was watching it in the living
room, right? So my in and out right.
And my dad is like, like what the fuck are you watching?
Like this is giving me looks. This is what you're watching
your first. Time.
Yeah. I'm like, dad, you don't

(01:26:26):
understand things you're watching.
Yeah. On TV.
That's funny. It is just the strangest movie.
What's funny is I would say if you are actually willing, give
it a. Watch.
I don't. I don't want to watch a bad
movie. Purely for the comedy like it
is. It is so baffling how I mean I I

(01:26:53):
honestly think it is the most I'll conceived movie in 20
years. But it got an Oscar.
It got. It got 12. 12O nominations yeah,
that's, you know, what are we doing with the.
Oscars, Like I said, you give Top Gun the win three years ago.

(01:27:14):
This doesn't happen, right? So we're on the we're on the
alternative timeline where the Oscars are going to shit.
Yeah. And now if, if Sears didn't 1
episode 12. So if Sears cleared, if Sears
did not get at least 12 nominations, what are what are
you even doing watching the Oscars?
I don't know. Like I said, I I think it'll
definitely get the five I named,but no, it's.

(01:27:37):
Not getting more than 12 unfortunately.
I don't think it'll get 12. That controversial?
No, no, they'll give all. They'll give the most
nominations to a movie about, like a biopic about a composer
or something. The artists struggle.
The Oscars love that. They love when you make movies
about the process of art. Right.

(01:27:59):
OK, yeah, better. Man.
What's gonna get is gonna get anOscar, apparently.
Well, you don't like Robbie win it'll.
Win Baftas. It'll win Baftas.
Or like the Raspberry. Brave new world coming for the
Razzies. Oh yes, at least it won
something. True.

(01:28:20):
Yeah. I got so off base there.
What can I say? What can anyone say?
You. Just you.
You're a supporter of the film, I guess.
Like culture, like the cuz what I get with the Oscars are
supposed to represent I do. I am.
I genuinely believe that stuff matters.
Like the celebration of the art.Yeah.

(01:28:41):
Yeah, that does matter. And I really think that it's
important for as elitist as people think it is in LA, you
know, the West Hollywood, all the surrounding areas of that
neighborhood, I really think I like that people go there to try
and and achieve their dreams. Do 90% of them fail?

(01:29:04):
Yes. But I like that there is an
ecosystem where people exist andthey go to coffee shops and say,
hey, do you want to read my script?
I think that's fucking cool. It is.
But I mean, it's just it's. Yeah.

(01:29:25):
When, When? When the most prestigious group
of artists and film makers and producers and critics cannot
even bring themselves to watch all of the Best Picture
nominees? I think that sucks.
Yeah. And it devalues the product.
It does, yeah. Yeah.

(01:29:47):
I mean, I do care. I wish I didn't because I know
every single year it's going to be a train wreck, but I
obviously do. And that's why, ladies and
gentlemen, introducing Below theline Oscars at the end of the
year. Stay tuned.
Episode to be announced. Patron.
Exclusive That's an amazing episode, patron.

(01:30:07):
Exclusive. Dude, dude, how do I not think
of this, you know? What I see this, this is what we
do. We come up with ideas on the
pod. Yes.
You know what? Maybe he's.
Fucking. Amazing.
Yeah. This is, you know what we
needed, Victor Sick Ross. I wouldn't have come.
I would not have come up with that idea.

(01:30:28):
God. That is such a good idea.
We could call each award the nobodies.
Like we give the nobodies the best picture to yo-yo fuck.
Episode 2 BNF You guys. We have until the end of the
year anyway. Yeah, Gosh, who let me have fun?
Yeah. So obviously we're gonna

(01:30:49):
nominate singers for. Something Yeah, obviously.
You know what? We should nominate singers for
best performance in a lead role for Michael B Jordan.
Which one he played two exactly He's.
Guaranteed. Yeah, We haven't even talked
about the performances. No, but I'll just get mine out

(01:31:09):
of the way because you're going to you're going to be more in
depth. To me.
Michael B Jordan, phenomenal theway he was able to portray two
different people with different personalities while also being
similar because they're brothers.
So there should be similarities but also differences.
And he was really great at capturing the differences and
like that nuance. Preacher boy.

(01:31:30):
Love that dude. I had to ask you who his name
was. Name is Miles Cadden love that
dude. Just what he he he I feel like
he really did represent like thehow we say on the on the part,
like where the nobodies of Hollywood.
I really did feel like he was like the nobody because you're
he's performing alongside all these like, you know, a list

(01:31:51):
actors, but he's also kind of like the the main character in
the movie. And so like, I really liked his
performance and like what he brought to the film.
Well, I think you spoke about Michael B Jordan's performance
beautifully. I don't know what else I could
add to that, except that I do think he did a great job.

(01:32:12):
And honestly, I forgot at one point that he was one person.
That's how good his performance was in Sinners that I forgot.
Michael B Jordan is a single individual.
Right. Yeah.
I honestly thought there were twins performing, that's how

(01:32:33):
good he was. I thought there was a Michael B
Jordan and Michael A Jordan. Exactly exactly.
Miles Caton though man. Like you said he was basically
the main character. And here is the most mind
blowing fact about this movie. That was his very first screen
performance, no? And he did that.

(01:32:54):
Damn. I didn't even look up his wiki
or anything after the movie. Yeah.
And that that's impressive. That is his very first screen
performance and he delivers whatdepending on how you choose to
look at the movie, what might bethe best performance in the
movie very well might be. I also thought Hailee Steinfeld

(01:33:16):
did a really good job performance of her career.
In my opinion, she hasn't been in a ton of movies like this, so
maybe that's that's why it's easily the best of her career.
But Delroy Lindo too, it was great to see him back.
He brought a nice natural swagger to the movie that I

(01:33:36):
think was really needed. Obviously I think a lot of
people know him from Malcolm X, but really good.
I think that Michael B Jordan's Smokes love interest in
particular, the one who believedin the voodoo, she was really
strong as well. I think she brought a very stern

(01:33:57):
presence. I honestly was convinced by her
character that she knew how to protect them because we didn't
mention this, but Smoke wears this necklace that had, I don't
know if it has something in there, if it's just kind of a
Talisman, right, But he wears itthroughout the movie.
And I don't think it's a coincidence that he's the only

(01:34:19):
one that survives the vampires. He dies, but not from the
vampires. Right.
I think it's something he did. He did take it off and that's
what. He dies afterwards, yeah, So I
think that's interesting. But she did a really good job.
Honestly, I I could sing the praises of everyone here.
Our boy Jack O'Connell Jack. O'Connell Exactly.

(01:34:41):
He's playing a very layered character.
Again, I'm really hesitant to call him a villain.
Omar Benson Miller as Cornbread.You know, he was a fun
character. He was just, he was there to
have a good time, man, so. And like you really bring out
like the jovial nature to the movie because that is something

(01:35:04):
that I wanted to bring up while you were talking about.
Like the first half, second-half.
I really like while we're watching like the first half
every once in a while, like I would just look down my watch
and like, it's been an hour. Hold on.
It's been, we've been having toomuch fun.
When does shit go down? Still anticipating like that
super horror element that didn'tend up getting.
Yeah, But yeah, though I remember like the first, like,

(01:35:25):
good times are happening all right.
Usually a lot the good times happen before.
Like shit goes down. When does shit go down?
Yeah, I know what you mean. But you're right, he did bring
that to the movie. And honestly, I think the movie
was just really well cast acrossthe board.
I think everyone felt authentic.The whole movie felt lived in.

(01:35:47):
And this is this is just a a true blockbuster in the purest
sense of the word. I think it is something that is
akin to the likes of Jordan Peele's Nope, which I am a huge
fan of. I know a lot of people love it.
They hate it. Yeah, exactly.

(01:36:07):
They I think most people their favorite Jordan Peele movie is
Get Out, which is completely understandable.
But I love Nope and I think thatSinners is is one of those
movies Amazing original film loaded with social commentary.
Leaves you with a lot to think about, but it's also a

(01:36:29):
spectacle. A true, genuine spectacle.
And after weeks of thinking about it, vampire I, I when I
first heard about this movie, I,I would the best way I heard it
described to me was black vampires.
But now that I'm thinking about it, like vampires kind of
played. Yes, they were important to like
the the movie, but they were really in the background until

(01:36:51):
like the second-half. Like vampires was not like like
the prominent central focus of the movie.
While while it did, while it didbecome that towards the end,
like, you know, surviving the vampire attack, like you said,
this was a hangout movie. They're just hanging out going
about their day and then vampirecomes in and then turns into a
vampire story. But prior to that, like it.

(01:37:12):
It really could have just been like a Juke Juke Jam movie.
I agree it's I don't think the vampires are honestly all that
crucial to the movie. That's why when I first
mentioned my initial thoughts inthe Thunderbolts episode that I

(01:37:32):
said I wasn't really too hung upabout that.
It's not that I didn't think it was interesting, it's just like
you said, they're they're reallynot that prominent.
I think more than anything that Sinners is, like you said, it's
a very passionate and soulful film.
It is a a rock operatic story about faith, community,

(01:37:57):
heritage, exploitation and freedom.
And I think the through line is what you said, music, this
movie. I, I wrote this in my notes.
I'm I'm not going to lie, this movie celebrates artists in
every medium. It I think it does something

(01:38:20):
kind of interesting in that it it tethers to cultural identity
unbound by time, which you you you elaborated on.
So I don't think that's a novel thought, but one thing I did
right as well is this is me justkind of attempting to be poetic

(01:38:42):
here. Oh, hit me.
I think to this movie shows thatmusic, whatever medium you
choose to look at, I think Sinners, honestly, for all of
its genre fare and the sort of tropes it uses, I think Sinners

(01:39:02):
shows us that art is a gift. It's something that's deeply
personal and intrinsic to our very being.
Human beings crave these kind ofexperiences for a reason,
whether it's music, movies, paintings, books, people seek
these out for a reason. And I think, I honestly think

(01:39:28):
that's what the movie that that was kind of my biggest
takeaways. This is just a celebration of
art. It's something that everybody
people are intrinsically drawn to creativity.
So many people say, oh, I'm not creative.
That's not true. You are.
You either just don't want to admit it or you don't know what

(01:39:49):
your outlet is, right? Because I mean, art is, is just
something that is sort of constantly remixed and
reimagined across generations. And I think Sinners illustrates
that beautifully. Well said.
No, I I agree. I think what you said is perfect
because it it illustrates that through like the story and the

(01:40:14):
actual message of the movie and also works on a meta commentary
level. Like we're talking about like,
you know, like this like not like, not like the message of
this movie is, you know, celebration of music or the
connection that we all feel through music.
And then, you know, overtly likeon the on top, like as the film
and from the outside consideringlike what the film does as I

(01:40:35):
like just as a film. Yeah.
No, it it does allow what you said.
Like it celebrates art, it celebrates the film,
filmography, or film and music in general.
I think it's it's a really interesting movie, honestly.
Having said all of that, this might be an Oscar contender.
I. That's.
What they do, they do really like when movies celebrate art,

(01:40:56):
so I think at this point it's a real possibility.
Yup. At least getting 5 nominations.
Definitely at least getting 5. Yes, I guarantee it.
And now we're just waiting to see, but you guys can either
watch the born old Oscars with Dylan over there, or you can

(01:41:17):
stay tuned for the future patronepisode of you know, it's not
going to be a patron episode. We'll probably make it free, but
definitely going to be our own brand.
It's definitely going to be something we do.
That sounds like so much fun. Yeah.
And it gives me an excuse to watch more movies.
Exactly. And speak like a film, a tour,
you know? Yeah.
It's like through the. Connoisseur of the of the media.

(01:41:40):
Of the film start like talking like movie speak, you know?
Yeah. Well, you know, what's funny is
I don't think it was last year. I think it was the year before
somebody had made a joke about me saying most people will ask
girls, hey, Netflix and chill. They said Dylan would be like,

(01:42:04):
would you like to come to my place and watch a film?
I'm like, OK, you got me there. Yep, you got me there.
That was. Pretty accurate.
Yep, they they did. The accent and everything.
And I was like, all right, I'll give you that one.
Yep. That, that's.
Yep, that is you. Yep.
I'll give you that one now I'm really excited about the end of

(01:42:24):
the year, yo, so. Me too, if only just because
it'll be the end of the year andeverything that I've been
wanting to watch will have already come out.
Probably streaming. I probably would have watched
Sinners 3 or 4 times by the end of the year.
Probably Superman at least twice.
Definitely Doner Bolts at least twice.
We'll see if I rewatch. If I rewatch Fantastic Four,
we'll see when it comes. Out that's that's up in the air.

(01:42:46):
I'm at least gonna have to rewatch that dress.
One of the the Is it a new Jurassic World trilogy or is it
still continuing based off the last?
It's a new Jurassic World trilogy.
That's why they're calling it Rebirth.
But. I think it's kind of based off
of what happened. On the last yeah, it's also
connected to the first trilogy because the the general premise

(01:43:11):
is this island isn't site A or site B.
It is the island where they madethe dinosaurs for the original
park. So it's an entirely new
different island, but so it's connected to both, both
trilogies. But I will defend the first
Jurassic World to the death. I do not care about Jurassic

(01:43:36):
World like that, so I'm not evenargue for it.
I will defend Jurassic Park though, because I I did like
those well. Jurassic Park is one of the best
movies I've ever made. The first one.
The first one, yeah. We don't talk about the idea.
No, the only the only good thingI like about the the other
movies in the first trilogy is that trailer sequence in the

(01:44:00):
Lost World where they're hangingoff the Cliff with the 2T Rexes.
Thought that was beautifully done.
Amazing sequence by Spielberg there And then in Jurassic Park
3, the Spinosaurus. I'm a Spinosaurus guy.
Give me give me spino over the TRex and stop nerfing the spino,
OK? I'm tired of it, right?

(01:44:25):
You know, I do wonder if they'regoing to make these dinosaurs
more like dinosaur accurate. Do you know how recently, or
maybe not even recently, but I would say in recent times, it's
more science has been coming. Out than first dinosaurs.
Yeah, like how it turns out maybe dinosaurs weren't
reptilian. They, they had, you know,
feathers and shit. So I'm OK with feathered

(01:44:47):
dinosaurs and all that because that.
Looks so tough. Hot take, Birds freak me out.
Really. Have you ever seen a castaway?
I don't even. Know what that is?
Block those things dude, I'll pull it up.
Is that like an owl? No, it is a flightless bird in
Australia that is, in my opinion, a very clear descendant

(01:45:11):
of the Velociraptor. These things are absolutely
terrifying. But the point is, I'm OK with
feathered dinosaurs, and I know the reason they're changing the
Spinosaurus is because they wantit to be more accurate to what
they think the Spinosaurus was like.
Right, that looks like a fuckinglike a Pokémon.

(01:45:34):
It's a fucking. Photo here, let me let me show
you it's claw here and told me this thing isn't a fucking
dinosaur. I'm OK with more accurate
dinosaurs and I know that's why they're making the changes to
the Spinosaurus, but I hate seeing spine owner.
Damn, Oh damn. Yeah.
That's a that's that's. That's a dinosaur.

(01:45:57):
That's a dinosaur. That's a dinosaur leg.
You know what I do now when people say yo, the chickens are
related to dinosaurs? I see it.
I see it now like chickens got the little feet down the line
off of that one. But that, that's a fucking yo.
And honestly think about it, if they did a movie with feathered
dinosaurs, imagine how freaky itwould be to watch this bird like

(01:46:19):
thing walk at you with that forward head thing they do
right? Fuck that.
How big is the bird? It looks pretty big castaway.
Yeah, it's about, I want to say 5 to 6 feet tall.
Fuck that taller than me. Yeah, so it's pretty tall.
And then they have been known tocause human fatalities because

(01:46:39):
when they kick they will like slash, yeah, people's abdomens.
And it's just for only in fucking Australia.
Yeah, dude, everything in Australia wants to kill you.
Right. You know what?
That's why Mad Max has the reputation that it has, you
know? Yeah, that's what they drew the
inspiration from. Yeah I don't know man, but I

(01:46:59):
stopped nerfing the Spino man. That's the one dinosaur where I
don't want to see more scientific accuracy.
Give give Raptors feathers, that'll be cool.
But let Spino fuck up the T Rex if nothing, if not for any other
reason than to just piss off theRex fanboys.
Yeah, and that would be a great way to like, you know, stir up

(01:47:21):
controversy for your movie. Hey, more clicks.
Exactly. More buzz I'm so excited for,
like the movies are going to come out and like, now that
we're somewhere's around the corner.
It's right there, dude. I feel like May 29th, yeah.
Like I feel like. Everything's slated to come out
like every There's gonna be something new every week
starting in. June there is We didn't even
tease the debate. No, no.

(01:47:44):
Oh, there it is. Hey, we tease the debate.
There it is. There's the debate tease.
Yeah. What?
What debate, you may be asking? That's the teeth.
Exactly. That's for you to guess.
Let's build the tension. But summer is right around the
corner. It's going to be so much
material for us. Yep.

(01:48:05):
It's going to be great. It is.
The only thing that I don't lookforward to is the summer heat,
bro. Like, how am I going to go
running in the summer heat? I'm about to wake up early and
be a morning runner or be an evening runner.
And you know how? You know how the evenings get
fucking wind everywhere? I I try to run up the wind, I'm

(01:48:26):
like falling against it. Last year when I was training, I
went out for a run on Saturday. It was a recovery week and my
long run was 13 miles. I was out there, dude.
It was 85° at 10 in the morning,though.

(01:48:48):
I'm out there running and obviously long runs are supposed
to be done at an easy pace. I was miserable.
And it wasn't even that my legs were trashed.
I it wasn't that my lungs felt like they were overexerted, I
was just so miserable because itwas hot.

(01:49:08):
I was sweating in really uncomfortable places.
I just wanted it to end. I was so pissed and I remember
saying to myself, I am taking a long break from running after
this race. I didn't do it.
And now here I am complaining that I can't run.
I swear, I swear. I'm gonna love every single day

(01:49:31):
of training. Even when I'm out there on the
track doing 10400m repeats and I'm dying by the 8th one, I'm
gonna love every single second because I'm just gonna cherish
the fact that I can run. There you go.
That's the yeah, that's the positive attitude.
Exactly. Just two more, dude.
Two more weeks. I fucking hope so, dude.
I'm not. I'm not are.

(01:49:52):
You going to go for a check in before you go run or are you
just going to be like Sunday's here run?
No, I'm. I'm going for it, all right?
Yeah, I'm going for it, man. It's tough.
Yeah, I can imagine it is. Hang in there.
Try. Just like we're just like.
We're hoping that Victor hangs in there, Yeah.
And hope he recovers. It's unfortunate that he wasn't
here. Yep, because Victor, I I know he

(01:50:15):
has a lot of opinions about sinners and he would have been
happy to be here to debate why he thinks some some scenes are
better than others because he's got his own little controversial
opinion that I really, I really wanted to get on the pod for
this episode. But yeah, is this game rain?
Check that opinion, you know. But hey, maybe, maybe he might

(01:50:38):
just come in and give you something special next week.
Oh, yes. All right.
So what are your final thoughts on the Sinners?
All right, sinners. Phenomenal movie, definitely
Oscar worthy. If it doesn't win an Oscar at
the Oscars, it'll win a nothing over here at the nobodies of
Hollywood. It's gonna earn the, what would
he call it, the Nobody Award. The Nobody.

(01:50:59):
The nob you're gonna earn, actually.
We maybe nothing might be a better name for the award.
The nothing. Yeah, the nothing, yeah, yeah.
But OK, Sinner's fantastic movie, one of the best movies of
the year. Definitely looking forward to re
watching it next week when it comes out on streaming this week
if you're listening to this episode now.

(01:51:20):
But yeah, I have my recommendation is for everybody
to drop whatever they're doing and watch this movie
immediately, but probably on thebiggest TV you could find.
If you don't have a big TV, steal one.
If you can't steal 1 rob one youcan't rotten.
I'm kidding, but it just go watch this film and you need to

(01:51:42):
experience this movie for what it is.
I agree. My final thoughts on Sinners.
I think it is an excellent movie.
I listed a couple flaws but that's just my opinion.
You should find out for yourselfbecause I would definitely
recommend Sinners as well. And definitely watch it on the
biggest screen you can because it's not in theaters anymore.

(01:52:05):
And watch it on the most comprehensive sound system you
can if that's an option for you.Because sound and music is so
vital to this movie. I think for my money, it is the
best movie of 2025 so far. There's a lot to unpack as we
have discussed here today. I'm sure that if you give this

(01:52:28):
movie a chance, you'll walk awaywith your own thoughts that are
probably vastly different from mine and Jessie's, so you should
find out for yourself. Yes, it is a great movie and I
think it's Oscar worthy as well.Original movie Revolutionary in
the sense that it is doing something that we've never seen

(01:52:51):
before, and I hope we get more movies like this.
Yes, a running theme seems to bethat you know, we our brain
theme in terms of like an earlier episode supporting
original movies. This was an original movie.
This was a great original movie and like I like we I said in
like a previous episode where wetalked about Mickey 17

(01:53:14):
Novocaine, we need more movies like.
This. They might be a Mickey 17, they
might be a Novocaine, or they might be a Sinners.
We just need to support these movies with our wallets.
So please support this movie. Well said.
Thank you for listening to Belowthe Line podcast episode 12.

(01:53:35):
I'm gonna let Dylan do his little outro I'll takes, but it
has been a pleasure to come downand stay here with you guys
again and talk about film. Yes, well said.
It got a little passionate therein the middle.
So a little Oscar beat. That's all for today.
We'll catch you next time, but until then, run through the

(01:53:57):
show. Acknowledgments.
Real. Quick.
Thank you to Levi for composing the intro music.
Thank you to Jesse for the artwork.
And of course, if you want to support the show, you can
subscribe to the YouTube channelyoutube.com back slash at
Nightfall Films. You can follow us on Tiktok

(01:54:21):
under the same handle, and of course, the most impactful thing
to do is follow the show on Spotify.
With that being said, that is all for today.
We'll catch you next time. Peace plants.
Namaste.

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