Summer Blockbuster Ballet: Ballerina & Superman Impressions

Starting with a quick spin on Ballerina, the nobodies get lost in their first impressions of James Gunn's Superman. They debate its tone, ambitions, and the divisive comedy. Summer blockbuster season is in full swing, and the nobodies of Hollywood are pleased to have you join the conversation. We hope you find this conversation meaningful and entertaining.

Peace + Plants

Produced by Maya.

http://www.youtube.com/@NightfallFilms

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Episode Transcript

(00:08):
Be inspired. To do things differently.
Hey everyone, welcome back to the show.
This is Below the Line podcast brought to you by the nobodies
of Hollywood. I'm Dylan.
And I'm Jesse, what's up Chad y'all enjoy your week long
vacation without the pod. I know we took a week off, but
we gave you an episode early forthe 4th of July, so.

(00:30):
Yeah, it was a very festive episode.
It was one that I was actually pretty happy with as I listened
back to it. Yeah.
So in case you like, if you're listening to us now and you
don't know what we're talking about, go check us out at
Spotify at Nightfall films at but no, I'm sorry, no, it's
below the line podcast YouTube channel is Nightfall films point

(00:53):
B. Media company is nightfall.
Yes, Point B new listeners, if you don't know what I'm talking
about, just go to the podcast, Check out our live episodes.
We are now officially on episode18.
So episode 17 was the 4th of July episode where we talked
about Top Gun and Top Gun Maverick, but mostly Top Gun
Maverick. Mostly Top Gun Maverick.

(01:14):
Funny story, before I came over here my mom was watching Top
Gun. Really.
Yeah, she getting right. So I rewatched Top Gun Maverick
again. Yeah, probably.
All right. Because like, you know, like
spoiler alert for our previous episode, but I think like that,
like the the thesis or like the like the main draw from that
episode is like, hey, Top Gun isgreat, but Top Gun Maverick just

(01:39):
does it so much better, which isnot a shot at Top Gun is just to
show just how like how really fucking fantastic the the sequel
was. Yes, like normally 100%.
It's not easy to make a sequel to like an already great film,
but they did. Especially one that has that
kind of cultural impact because you still hear people quoting

(02:01):
things like I feel the need, theneed.
For speed, Yeah. Like all these quotables that I
I heard throughout my entire life, I'm like, where do they
all come? They came from Top Gun, yeah.
Or Top Gun, Top Gun. And then like, yeah, Maverick.
I'm sure they're gonna we're gonna be quoting Maverick like
in a decade from now. Talk to me, Goose.
Yeah, bro. But anyways, we are now on

(02:25):
episode 18 of Below the Line podcast.
You know, I'm kind of like surprised that we're still here.
Honestly me too. Like I've been it's been a
journey. I I get some DMS on Instagram
here and there about the show and someone had made a joke.
All it took for me to care aboutYouTube was to start a podcast.

(02:49):
Bro yeah. And what's like, what's point is
that like when did you and cast start the podcast like in
January? January.
Look at that, we're in July, still here.
First week of January, but we started I think the 13th, right?
Yeah. And things only became more
consistent like around March or February.
March ish around. That time after the terrible

(03:10):
Captain America movie. Now streaming but Disney plus.
Disney Plus, but don't stream that, just just stream.
Thunderbolts yes, just watch Thunderbolts, it's a better
movie do. Yourself a favor exactly.
But anyways, so there's a lot ofmovies that have been coming out
this summer, specifically this month, and rather than trying to

(03:32):
like, you know, just watch everything and then do 1 episode
where we talk about everything, we're just going to space them
out. And while that means that like,
you know, we won't get around toevery what everybody wants to
talk about like this week, IE Superman, Superman, like we will
talk about Superman and in fact,we'll give you our first

(03:54):
impressions in a bit, but just know that the true Superman
Below the Line podcast episode, it's not this one.
No, but the I think it's going to work out because the Internet
is is having a day with this movie.
So yeah. Like I I think the the Internet
will be fine if like we release our Superman episode 2 weeks

(04:18):
from now. Like, I think they'll be fine, I
think. The world will continue to
rotate around the sun. People will still be talking
about Superman 2 weeks from now,just like hopefully they'll
still be talking about the transformer video you put out
that I wanted to talk about actually all.
Right, what'd you want to say? So like chat, if you listen

(04:41):
listen to last week's episode, Dylan at the end of the pod was
like, yo, if anybody like I'm at99 subscribers, if all it takes
is just like, you know, me coming on the pod and just like
trying to get like more support,just one more subscriber.
And like, you know, I'm trying to redirect people to watch my
new Transformers video on the YouTube channel at Nightfall

(05:02):
Films. Yes.
Like that's that's what Dylan did for the last episode and
that was about over like a week ago.
Yeah. Bro the next day that video blew
up. I could drop it on a Friday by
Sunday or set or Friday or Monday.

(05:25):
I was like, yo, this video is blowing up relative to the
channel size and now for our channel size or I'm sorry, your
channel size like you asked for one subscriber, you got over 50.
I did. You asked for like a couple of
views. You are sitting at over 8000
views on that video. Yeah.

(05:45):
How does that feel? I'm going to be honest, it feels
kind of strange. How so?
Because I've been on YouTube since 2018.
You wouldn't know it because I took down all of my terrible
first videos, right? It feels strange because I think
when I started the channel, I very much had the mindset of I

(06:08):
kind of want to be big, right? Like I want the channel to blow
up. And I think in the early days of
the channel on For better or worse, most likely for worse, I
was trying to appease the algorithm.
I was just trying to make videosthat I thought people either
wanted to hear about or that I thought people would like.

(06:32):
And it just, it wasn't very fun,to be honest with you.
I think, you know, 2020 coincidentally was the best year
for the channel consistency wise, which is very odd.
I wonder why the the pandemic. Yeah.

(06:54):
I think that's, that's probably the most time to be consistent
at anything because like you're home, like everyone's like home
all day. Yeah, not much to do.
But I feel like you are a man, that you have discipline, more
discipline than me, because you,like you will work out at home
and do like all the shit that you need to do at home.

(07:17):
I can't do that. Yeah.
Yeah. Like if I, if I want to work
out, like I have to like either go to a gym or like do something
to like get myself that, that external motivation to actually
do it. You don't have that.
You just, you already have the built in motivation.
So it doesn't surprise me that during 2020, while, like, a lot
of people were like, dealing with, like, their own, like,

(07:37):
cabin fever, you were thriving. Yeah.
Maybe thriving is not the right word for everything else to
happen. I know what you mean.
But yeah, for, like, that YouTube channel.
Yeah. Yeah.
Thriving. And so a couple people know this
story, don't worry. I'm not going to get into the
details but basically the channel used to be run by me and

(07:57):
my ex who was the editor, which was the reason so many videos
were pumped out. Right.
When that came to an end, I didn't have an editor and I just
decided, you know what? I hate editing, I don't want to
do this. And the channel just kind of
like faded into the background. I would occasionally upload like

(08:22):
I, I did a review for Barbie that did OK, like nowhere near
this Transformers video. But I think around the, the end
of last year when I started to make like the Penguin video, I
told myself, you know what, I need to just change my approach
on YouTube. I can't try to chase subscribers

(08:46):
or likes. Instead, what I'm going to do is
I'm going to start making videosabout things that I am genuinely
interested in or things that I think I have a a unique
perspective on because I do think about things like that,
unfortunately. And I think you can tell from

(09:09):
episode 15 of Below the Line podcast that this Michael Bay
topic defense. Yeah, it's something that I've
had on my mind for a long time. Yep.
And the Transformers movies in particular, I think it was just
such an easy thing for me to make a video about because they
are his most popular movies and they're kind of universally

(09:33):
hated. But I mean seeing the response
to the video is making me think like.
You're not the only one. Yeah, but it's it's, you know
what I mean, The the support hasbeen great.
I mean, I don't know if all those people are going to listen
to this on Spotify or if they'lljust listen on YouTube.

(09:54):
But I just want to say thank youto everybody who watched the
video, who liked, who commented,except for the people that told
me I was an idiot, that I, that me making that video represented
how society has fallen. I I seriously got a comment.
That said that. Yeah.
Bro you got a lot of comments onthe video.

(10:16):
Like I checked it out before we started partying.
I'm like oh shit like over 400 likes over over 100 comments
like God damn. Like this video, like, really
went viral for like, like the channel still being like, as
small as it is. Like this video, like blew up,
Yeah. Yeah, so, you know, to to
everyone that watched the video,liked it and subscribed, thank

(10:38):
you truly from the bottom of my.Heart from the bottom of his
heart. Yes.
I mean, I did ask for one and what ended up happening was so
much more than I could have imagined.
My sort of like goal is hopefully that that video will
hit 10,000 views eventually. No, I will, you know, that's

(11:01):
kind of what I'm hoping for. But the reason I say it's weird
is because now I feel like there's pressure on me.
Like all of a sudden 150 plus people.
Right. Care what I have to say right to
some degree about movies and I'mlike OK, the next video has to

(11:21):
be good. Right.
Do you want to share with the chat what the next video is
going to be about, or you're going to keep down to the wraps?
Keep them guessing. No, I'll share it.
All right. I'll share it because I think
it's, I don't think it'll surprise anybody.
All right, listen up, chat and new chat.
Yeah. So in Episode 16, the fireside

(11:42):
chat, we mentioned that the newsbroke that Michael Bay is
returning to the Transformers franchise.
So I'm going to make a little follow up video to this
Transformers video. It's not going to be 48 minutes,
right, but it's going to be a little addendum to defending

(12:04):
Transformers, mostly covering Michael Bay's return to the
franchise and how I think that presents a really unique
opportunity in filmmaking that Idon't I don't know that we've
quite seen before you hear that chat.
Some some things to look forwardto, but the new listeners who

(12:26):
want to like get some more Transformers content, there will
be more Transformers content, itjust won't be 48 minutes long
where the Transformers content. But you know, down the road, who
knows? Who knows what will happen?
More Transformers videos, More Michael Bay defense.
Yeah. But anyways, thank you chat and

(12:47):
new chat for like showing support both to the the the
YouTube channel and the podcast.Like that's also like we, we
also got a spike in numbers after the Yeah, just a total.
Random spike in in episodes. It's like, oh, the podcast.
That's what happens when you like, you know, upload a podcast
on the channel. It's like, oh, it's adjacent.
People want to hear. So here we're now giving the

(13:10):
people what they want, or maybe they don't want because, you
know, we got new members and whoknows what they think about our
rambling opinions. Yeah, who knows, We're going to
have to wait and see. That's that's what's so
interesting to compare the Spotify numbers to the YouTube
numbers. Right.
Yeah. Makes sense.
I can't wait till I, you know, start seeing more comments on

(13:30):
like the Youtubes and obviously like Spotify.
But I like to say what the comments are saying on YouTube
in terms of like the podcast. So do I, yeah.
Assuming they're not telling me to, you know.
No, especially that like I wouldsay hey, what's up bro?
You know, I don't know what I can say on here.

(13:51):
Now it's all love and positivity.
We are a wholesome. OK, I take that back.
We are now wholesome, but we area a loving and pure podcast.
You know, we even hit you with the outro at the peace plans.
Namaste. We're all about that's.
What I was about to say, we don't hit you with peace plans
for no reason. Yeah, like we don't tell you to
go fuck yourselves. We we want you to like, imagine

(14:12):
that you're here sitting with uschatting.
But. Yeah.
Anyways, that's definitely, I would say an objective of ours.
Yeah, yes. But anyways, like thank you.
Thank you to the new, new subscribers, new listeners.
Now that we got that out of the way, I think we're gonna, we're
gonna like actually get into like what we're trying to talk

(14:33):
about in this episode. And that is a movie that I
really, really wanted to like, I, I set myself up for failure.
I really, really want to like this movie.
I might know a thing or two about that.
Chad that's foreshadowing for what you'll find out when you

(14:55):
know, but Ballerina, I this movie came out last month and I
didn't get a chance to watch it in theaters, but then it dropped
on like 3 weeks later it droppedto streaming and that made me
very not insecure. What's the what's the word?

(15:16):
I'm concerned yes, that made me very concerned that it was
already on streaming and platforms.
That didn't stop me from watching it.
So I watched it and I think I hyped myself up too much for
this movie. I don't think it's a bad movie
necessarily, but I think I over hyped myself up too much given

(15:41):
that this is supposed to take place in the John Wick universe.
That's a fair assessment. I did not get to watch Ballerina
in theaters either. I just didn't get around to it.
But I don't think I was as excited for it just because,
well, it's a spin off, but also because I think my relationship

(16:06):
with the John Wick franchise hasjust kind of evolved so much
over time to where my excitementfor it was a little dulled.
But I too watched Ballerina via streaming and I was perfectly,
perfectly whelmed. I think the, the easy

(16:28):
comparison, I mean, not just on the surface level, but I think
the easy comparison to make is that it's, it's very similar to
Furiosa. But you, you can debate about
whether or not Ballerina or Furiosa is better.
But yeah, I, I was perfectly whelmed perfectly.

(16:53):
I really, really struggled with the movie in the 1st 20 minutes
or so. I just thought that that cold
open was, I thought it was brutal, right?
I don't know why. Right.
It wasn't until Anna de Armas actually appeared on screen that

(17:13):
I thought, OK, let's, let's giveourselves over to the
experience. Right, see, I'm glad you brought
up Furiosa because like that's something that we talked about
off the off mic regarding regarding like this movie and
like it being a spin off. And I just felt that I told you
that I just felt that Furiosa felt, I mean, OK, I'm just going

(17:37):
to get out of the way. I think Furiosa is a better Side
Story movie to the Mad Max universe in comparison to like
this movie because like they're both female led movies, they're
both action oriented. But I just felt like Furiosa had
more to say than ballerina. And it could be because maybe

(17:58):
Furiosa was already an established character in that
universe, in that Mad Max universe, whereas in the John
Wake universe, like the ballerina had to be established
all in this one movie. Like I, I genuinely thought when
this movie was announced last year, the year before that, I
was going to focus on the, the girl that we saw in John Wick 4.
Like when they first announced ballerina, I, I first thought

(18:21):
that I was going to focus on herand her revenge story.
And after that, like, I kept myself in the dark from this
movie because I don't like to, like, spoil myself.
But I think I still think that because it's a John Wick
adjacent movie, I hyped myself up for this film.
Like I knew nothing about the film.
So when I watched it, it was a brand new experience.

(18:43):
But it didn't like it. It didn't leave, like, a
satisfying impression. Yeah.
Like, I was like, as you like, Iwas just whelmed.
I wasn't overwhelmed. I wasn't underwhelmed.
I was just meh. Like it's not a bad movie, but.

(19:04):
This is one of the movies of alltime.
Yes, like this movie is a movie.Yeah, like it's a movie.
And I don't know, like I, I wanted to like it.
Like I really did. Like I, I love the the John Wick
universe. I was a fan of the Continental
TV show when that aired. Speaking to me right now, you

(19:27):
wanted to love. It yes, I wanted to love it, you
know, like I this could have been a movie for the
generations. You know, this could have been
like an empowering movie, but instead it was just it was just
an OK movie and it's sad becauselike I prior to this, like I was

(19:49):
like prepping myself. I was re watching the John Wick
movies this year, like I, I watched all the way.
I got watched the first 3 John Wick movies.
I didn't get around the state ofre watching 4.
I'm glad I didn't now that I'm looking back, 'cause I think
that that would have only hyped me up more for what was like
what, what ballerina could have been in my head.

(20:13):
But yeah, I just think that if you're going to make like a Side
Story, you should like expand onthe lore in the universe.
And while they kind of did that with like the whole like the
ballerinas and like what their place is in the John Wick
universe as as well as like the rumor Ruskini or whatever
they're called, but I just feel like this movie didn't didn't

(20:36):
add more to like the universe. Fair enough.
I don't know what I would say I expect from spin off movies
because I think for me in general from the get go,
Ballerina felt kind of cynical. Just because I I don't, I don't

(21:00):
like saying this, but I don't know that this story needed to
be told. Yeah.
Especially with within the context of the main John Wick
films. Like you said.
It's not even what was her name?The Who, Alfredoster or.
No the the ballerina that were introduced to in in John Wick 4.

(21:22):
I was, I don't even think she was a ballerina.
She was just a girl whose fathergot assassinated by like that
one dude, the the blind swordsman dude.
I think she was the the daughterof the the the hotel from the
Tokyo. OK, so I thought I thought it
was I thought when they announced ballerina, she was
going to be the main focus. And it turns out I was a
different actress, different movie entirely has nothing to do

(21:45):
with that. Because the way that John John
Wick 4 ended with like, you know, like spoiler alert, but
the way that John Wick 4 ended, that girl was shown like, you
know, following her, like, like stalking her, her father's
killer. And that's where the movie ends.
And I genuinely thought that this is going to follow up from
that. Just like Furiosa follows up on

(22:06):
like the lad. The the most recent Mad Max
movie where it shows like the resolution of like how Furiosa's
story ends and is resolved like in her own movie, but she was
introduced in like earlier in like the earlier movie, but you
still see like the the continuation of her story.
And I thought that's what that arena was going to be, but Nope,

(22:27):
it's a whole new character, whole New Girl who has nothing
to do with John Wick. She is only tangentially related
to John Wick. She only meets him like a few
times in her life. Like this movie takes place like
in between, like John Wick threeand four.
Like I think it's in the middle of John Wick 3.
Yeah, that's what I read. Yeah, so, but it's like you

(22:49):
include John Wick the character,but it it doesn't really feel
like this movie ties in into that universe the way that
Furiosa did to Mad Max. And I think like that's what
that's what's leaving like a badimpression.
Like to me, because at least like even the TV show The
Continental, like it dealt with Winston and his fuck, his name

(23:12):
starts with an M the the the black gentleman.
I know who you're talking about.I can't remember his name.
Either the matron or like what, what, what do they call that?
The hotel? Like the, the, the, the bellboys
or whatever. No, he's not a bellboy, But yes,
that that yeah, it deals with Winston and the concierge, like
with those two people. And like, so it's like, all
right, cool. It's still a spin off, but it's

(23:35):
dealing with characters like that we were already established
with, but in their past, you know, building of like the more
of the lore. I like that ballerina.
While it did like include some lore aspects into the in the
movie in regards to like the theuniverse, I don't think it was
enough to justify making this movie.

(23:57):
OK, so you basically made the exact point that I was going to
make in that when I say I don't know if this story needed to be
told, it's because when I heard about Ballerina, just as you
said, I thought it was going to be about a character that was at
least introduced in the mainlineJohn Wick films.

(24:17):
But instead it's about a completely different character
with a completely different tragic back story going on a
completely different revenge quest.
And so this is one of my biggestcriticisms of Ballerina.
And I'm I want to make this abundantly clear right now
because people who are so upset about the Rachel Ziegler stuff

(24:41):
all the way back in episode 5, Ido not think.
Who's that? Weird, weird.
I do not think Anna De Armas is a bad actress.
I think she's a wonderful actress.
She's been great in so many things, especially Knives Out,

(25:02):
where she was basically the heart of that film.
But I don't know that Ana de Armas had the screen presence
and the gravitas to carry this kind of movie, this movie
specifically because this is a movie that relies so heavily on

(25:24):
not like the intricacies of a screen performance that you
would get from like Daniel Day Lewis or someone.
But like it, it's very physical,you know, like it's, it's more
about, well, I'm being extremelyrepetitive, but it's more about
screen presence and as the kids would say, aura.

(25:46):
So, you know, I think Anna de Armas, she didn't quite have
that. No, she had to borrow aura from
John Wick. Yeah, that's why John Wick was a
camera. Like they showed John Wick in
the commercials, but like in themovie, he's probably in there
for like a totality of like 5 minutes.
But they needed to plug him in the commercials cuz you know,
they need that John Wick aura tolike sell this film, which I

(26:09):
don't. To get people out to the
theater. To watch it, which I didn't
like. And like, I'm gonna say it like
neither did I regarding like your Rachel Zechler comment or
whatever. I'm going to say right now that
it's not because like this is like a woman LED movie that I
didn't like it because there arethings I did like.
Like I like the the action sequences.
I like that, you know, because like she's a woman.

(26:31):
She's fighting against like people who are obviously bigger
than her. So she has to adapt and like
basically use like their own weight and muscle.
Like again like there she has touse.
She has to be more creative. Creative, yes.
And like yes. And she has to just like fight
differently than like how John Wick or a man would fight.

(26:52):
And I thought like that was veryinteresting.
Like, so I'm, it's not that like, I'm not like like bagging
this movie because it was a female led movie.
Like I do like female centric movies.
Again, I'm going to I'm going tobe comparing it to Furiosa a lot
because I I what I wanted Ballerina to be is kind of like
Furiosa, not in terms of the story, but like how it ties in

(27:15):
into like the universe because Ithink like the John Wick.
You just wanted it to feel cohesive.
Yes, John Wick. Yes, because it's it's a
franchise. Especially because they and I
didn't like this either. The subtitle of From the World
of John Wick. I'm sorry, but take that shit
off. Yeah, like that's so cynical.

(27:37):
For all that that bothered me, like when I went, I saw that
like on the movie posters, I'm like, you know, it doesn't need
that because like again, like you're that you're relying on
the aura and the goodwill of theJohn Wick name.
And it's like, do that too much,you're going to burn the
audiences. I think.
I think it's also the same for the Continental.
I think it also has like that subtext like from the world of

(27:58):
John Wick, the Continental. And it's like stop doing that.
Yes. Like was Furiosa called Mad Max
Furiosa? It was a Mad Max saga.
Fuck yeah, you know. A Mad Max.
Saga. Yeah, they.
Kind of walked into that. Damn.
All right, let me. See myself out real quick.

(28:19):
All right, I just did that for some air.
Yep, I might have to. I'll soften my position because,
all right, maybe they did have to like, steal some aura from
the mainline franchise just to get people to walk into the
movie theater. Well, what's surprising is that
like when I looked up this movie, it has like generally
positive reviews like. It's like in the mid 80s.

(28:42):
Yeah, like people like don't hate this film.
Like people did like it, but it's still like, it's still like
boggles my mind that they went to streaming like 3 weeks, like
3 weeks later that that's the part I guess.
And it's like, alright, so yeah,audiences didn't hate it.
And like when I looked at like the box revenue wasn't.

(29:02):
Making enough money. Yeah, I guess it didn't make
enough because I think it did. It made enough to cover its
budget or at least its initial budget, whatever they spent on
marketing or whatever. I don't know what that what that
what that final dollar value is going to be.
But I think like they did make back like the budget they had
for this film. But maybe like, like, as you're
saying, not enough to like justify keeping it in theaters

(29:25):
because. Yeah, like I hate that this
movie went to stream right away.As much as I'm bagging on it
right now, I still was really hoping for this movie's success.
Yeah. I think one of my biggest sort
of criticisms with streaming services and just the streaming
era in general is that it reallyshortens the theatrical window
of a lot of movies. Because prior to the explosion

(29:50):
of Netflix and all of these platforms, a lot of movies, they
wouldn't have huge opening weekends.
They would make money through word of mouth, right?
Like movies used to be in theaters for months.
Yep. And that's just not the case
anymore. And I can remember a time when,

(30:11):
yeah, movies would be in theaters and you would just
randomly hear from somebody one day at school.
Hey, have you seen? That new Superman movie.
Yeah, so and so and you, you, you just respond like, Oh no, I
haven't and you should go check it out.
Yeah, yeah. And two, another huge problem.

(30:31):
Now I'm just going on a rant, but it's I feel like it's kind
of applicable, right. Is that movies used to still be
able to make money through home video sales like everyone gets a
percentage of those like DVD sales.
And since that's not really a thing anymore, not only do you

(30:54):
know, the studios miss out on chance to make more of that
money back, but the actors are missing out on money because
surprisingly, actors do get Commission for for home video
sales. Really.
Yeah. I feel like I used.
To I was gonna say maybe I have to like be written in their
contract or whatever. Cuz like when you said that,
the, the thing that came to mindwith the whole Scarlett

(31:15):
Johansson, I know it was different cuz it was like
movies, movies train. Yeah, like theatrical revenues
or whatever. But like, I, I, I do think like,
Oh yeah, like, that makes sense how actors would get like, you
know, some revenue stream from that, like a percentage base.
I mean, they should Yeah yeah. So I agree with you.
Like even though I wasn't in love with ballerina, I hate

(31:36):
seeing these movies show up on streaming services 3 weeks to a
month later. Same thing with Mickey 17 like
yeah, I wasn't a huge fan of it,but I I wanted people to watch
it and to see it on HBO Max 3 weeks later.
I just. The size says it all.

(31:57):
Yeah. Breaks my heart.
Yeah. I mean, Robbie deserves better
than that. Like Bong Joon Ho deserves
better than that. Yeah.
I mean, did he get a little selfindulgent?
I think so, yeah. But you should have been able to
judge for yourself. Right.
No, I agree with you. But yeah, so like ballerina,

(32:18):
like what they man, I just I, I I wanted to like this movie.
And then whenever when I when I read about it, like the script
have been like this was already been worked on since like years
ago. So it's like it's like you've
had you had this was already like in development for years.
It's not like it just came out of nowhere and this is the best

(32:38):
you can do. Yeah, like I will say, I want to
echo your point about the fight scenes, though.
I think that action scenes were engaging enough, right, Because
this is a woman and and Anna de Armas is not the tallest woman,
so she has to fight differently.She has to engage with his

(33:02):
opponents differently. And.
Right. I think they did a pretty good
job of it, honestly. Yeah.
Like the fight scenes, the choreography, like that's
something about the John Wick movies that I do appreciate.
Like those are always like pretty stellar.
I think John Wick did it better,but maybe it's like the director
or like just the way that they shot the angles or whatever
well. I think that was part of the

(33:22):
issue too, is the original director was let go halfway
through production, really. And Chad Stahelski, the director
of the majority of the John Wickfilms, came in to oversee all of
the reshoots. So I don't think it's a stretch
for me to say everything that you probably liked in the movie

(33:43):
is probably a result of Stahelski reshooting it.
Damn, I hope that's not true, but damn if it is because that
that kind of like that would mean that like man, like the
original script, like the original dudes who wrote it.
I was in the fan and I really, Ireally did want to be a fan.
Like I did want to learn more about the universe, but this, it

(34:08):
just wasn't it. And man, I'm hoping I'm wrong.
Maybe like in maybe like a few months, whenever you watch it
again, I'll soften on my position and maybe I'll like it
more. And again, I think I, I, you
know, I hype myself up right now.
So Chad, just watch. This is me documenting how much

(34:30):
I was looking forward to watching Ballerina and how
disappointed I ended up being. But who knows, maybe by episode
36 I'll come back and be like yoguys, battling is actually
great. Dare I say iconic?
Maybe even generational. Maybe, but we'll see.

(34:51):
Anything's possible? Yeah, Anything.
'S possible, but to give it likesome praise because I think I've
been like banging on it too much.
Let me give it some praise like I did.
The story is simple. It's basically John Wick gender
flipped. It's another revenge vengeance
story. Obviously, thankfully, no, no

(35:12):
dog was hurt in making this movie movie.
Thank goodness. Yeah, but like it is like it it
does fall like the like not similar.
It's like similar adjacent structure in that it's a revenge
story. The girl wants revenge off like
for her, for her father's killerand like that then like let the

(35:32):
film play out like that. And I like that.
Like it's a simple premise because John Wick, the original
John Wick, it's a simple premise, but like it's a really
engaging story. So I was with it for Ballerina.
I was with the premise, but thenas I'm watching him, I just, I
could not get super engaged withit as I as much as I wanted to

(35:54):
at some point. Like I'm kind of embarrassed to
admit I might have taken a little nap in between.
Like I woke up and was like, oh shit, like this movie's still
going on. God damn.
So look, I think Ballerina is a is a good movie.
I mean, it's it's obviously not actively bad.
It's not an insult to the franchise or anything like that.

(36:18):
I think just relative to the expectations people had of it,
it feels disappointing. But I'm probably not as down on
it as Jesse. But that's because I've kind of
fallen out of love with the JohnWick franchise.

(36:40):
And I know that's not a a a popular opinion at all, but
similar to what you just said, Iloved the first John Wick movie.
I think there is something so pure about the emotional
simplicity of John Wick going onthis absolute revenge tour

(37:05):
because these guys stole his carand killed his dog, which was
the last sort of gift that his deceased wife left him.
And she left it to him as a reminder of how to love in a

(37:25):
world that might feel empty without her.
Right. That is so, like you said, it's
simple, but it's so engaging andit's just so cathartic to see
him run around and just smoke these fuckers.
Because I'm telling you right now, I'm telling you right now,

(37:47):
if anything, anything ever intentionally happened to Molly,
I would have burned the fucking world down finding that piece of
shit. So there is like there's this
this emotional resonance to the first John Wick that just really

(38:09):
works for me. And I think the more the John
Wick movies went on, I felt likeit was diminishing returns.
That's not to say like the action sequences didn't become
more ambitious. Obviously the budget got higher.
There's some standout moments inthe sequels.
And I I would say I think John Wick 4 is genuinely great, but

(38:33):
none of them have have moved me the way that the first John Wick
had. Right.
Interesting. Now I feel you.
So like John Wick, OK, like what?
Like what? Like I'll get into it.
Like John Wick, like the first movie, iconic.
And I think when it came out, they were not thinking that this
would become a franchise becausethen like, and like they

(38:55):
retroactively went back and I renamed it John Wick Chapter 1.
And then like they kept on, theymade sequels.
But then when the film came out,the first one, it it was like
enough where like it was its ownmovie.
Like if there's a sequel, there'd be a sequel.
But I think it ended on a note where like, all right, there's
no setup after this, which, you know, there's been other movies

(39:16):
where like they try to set up like a whole franchise or
universe, like Ralph the first movie and it doesn't work out so
well. But but there are some movies
where it does. And then there are some movies
that don't do it, but leave the door open for the possibility to
do it. That was John Wick because they
did that with John Wick and we got John Wick too at that point
at the end of John Wick too, at the way that John Wick too

(39:38):
ended. It's like, all right, this is
going to be like at minimum a trilogy, at most a fucking
franchise. It ended up being a franchise
because then we got John Wick 3,then John Wick 4, the
continental TV series, and now Ballerina.
And I can say right now how I feel that I don't think

(39:58):
Ballerina adds much to the universe, similar in the
similarly to like how John Wick Chapter 3 was like, I don't
think it added much to the universe.
But that's funny because these movies like are related.
I think the ballerina is the most related to John Wick 3,
which I also think happens to bethe weakest movie of the

(40:21):
franchise. It is.
I could think about the rank them it'd be John Wick 142 and
3. I would put those in the exact
same order. So it's like you're like the
battery and a spin off is kind of like it's tangentially
related to John Wake 3, which was the weakest of the movies.

(40:43):
So it's kind of like it it, it wasn't building itself a strong
case here. No, not at.
All like they could have at least like maybe had to take
place like in between like the second movie or like the the 4th
movie, because now I'm trying towreck my brain like, like
remembering like the scenes withJohn Wick.
Like where would this have takenplace in the third movie when he

(41:03):
was being busy, like, you know, being chased, but like everybody
who's trying to kill him or what?
Like like like that's these are the questions that I'm
wondering. Like all right, like where
exactly was like like John Wick and John Wick three doing these
side quests Because it's asking like, you know, like it's asking
like the audience to like all right, like find like the like

(41:27):
the continuity error, if there is one.
And Ballerina is kind of vague enough in the timeline to like
give you that wiggle room, but Istill don't like it.
OK, fair enough. Yeah, I just think that it's
probably not quite as disappointing for me just

(41:48):
because I've, I have fallen off the John Wick bandwagon, I
think. It's because you hate neo noir
films. Whoa.
And how like John Wick is like the best neo noir franchise to
come out in the last decade? The Batman Banks.
I said franchise. Because Batman Part 2 come in
2035. Speaking of Batman, I saw that

(42:16):
you replied to my tweet. Oh.
Yeah, I did. I did reply.
I was like, yo, like I like it was just like some short tweets
about Superman and I was like, yo, like I love Superman, but
like, I yeah, they're like, let's not, let's not mix the DCU
with the The Batman crime saga. And you were like, fuck yeah,

(42:38):
let's not do that. Matt Reeves universe all the
way. Yeah, keep.
Keep Matt Reeves, Rob Pattinson,Lauren Lefranc and all those
people as far away from the DCU as we possibly can.
Put them in in their studio, better being in in a different
state. Right while while they're making

(43:03):
while James Gunn is making the DCU and Hollywood, we're going
to have the Batman crime saga happen in Gotham City in Chicago
or Chicago. Well, I think like they like
things in Gotham City like basedoff Chicago kind of or is that
is that metropolis? So it that gets a little funky

(43:23):
because technically Gotham City is supposed to be like the the
grimy part of New York. That was.
Most often portrayed like in the70s I would say.
And Metropolis is supposed to belike the Nice idealistic part of
New York. So I think that's why it can get

(43:47):
a little conflated with just thethe sort of, I don't want to say
even the geography, but like in the DC Comics, like the contrast
between Gotham City and Metropolis is is obviously
pretty, pretty drastic. Right.
Yeah, OK, makes sense. But still, like I don't want to

(44:12):
say anything negative about Ballerina like and anything more
that I've already said because you know, again, I ended up like
taking a nap in the middle of this movie.
So maybe upon rewatch where I don't take a nap, I'll come back
here and be like, you know what guys, I was wrong.
Insert YouTube surprise Pikachu face.

(44:33):
You know how all the Youtubers do when they're shocked at some
like new news or whatever, trying to click bait the
audiences. Chad, mark it down.
Episode 36. I'm going to be like, yo, Jesse
was wrong. Ballerina is probably like the
most iconic film about of 2025. Don't quote me on that because I

(44:54):
but yeah, like I really want to like this film so much that I
was, I was rewatching the John Wick films in preparation and to
talk about John Wick as an episode.
But Ballerina like really like took the air out of my sails.
Like I don't really want to talkabout John Wick right now.
That's really unfortunate. Yeah.
Like, just given that like how much I enjoyed it and then I'm

(45:16):
just going to like, shit all over Ballerina.
It's like, no, I need I need to wait a little bit because I do
think that the John Wick franchise, like they're out,
like they're they're a good set of movies and I would love to
talk about like how much I love them and why I love them.
But I can't do that in good faith with like right now, given
how I feel about ballerina. Fair enough.

(45:38):
OK, So what would be less depressing for you to talk
about? Let's talk about something
hopeful. Something hopeful?
Yeah. What could that be?
All right, Chad, so you're stilllistening.
Earlier in the episode, I did say that we were going to talk
about our Superman impressions. Well, made you wait for it, but

(46:00):
here it is. Here it is, ladies and
gentlemen. All right, chat coming to you.
Live through the power of the the Internet.
NM Audio. NM.
Audio. They are not a sponsor, just a
trusted, trusted brand sponsored.
From the Stew right now from theBelow the Line podcast studio.

(46:25):
I like Superman, I thought aftersitting on it like just for a
day, because I still want to like sit on it more and come
back with like, you know, some deep, analytical cool, cool shit
that the audiences would be like, Oh, damn, that I'd never
thought about that before. But right now I'm going to be
like every other YouTube and commentator and say like, yo, I

(46:48):
love this, this movie. It felt very comic bookie.
I I just felt very like similar in the veins of Thunderbolts.
Like it wasn't trying to be the Batman or Logan or The Dark
Knight or any of these other movies were like they're serious
and they're serious movies trying to take place within like

(47:09):
the superhero genre. No, this was a fun movie.
This whatever Zack Snyder's Man of Steel was, this was the
option of that. Yeah.
OK, well, you know what? I'm going to agree.
As much as like I do appreciate Henry Cavill as Superman, I

(47:31):
think I don't like just the direction.
Like I think it won't mean like they just I think just the way
that they told him to like portray the like the character.
Yeah, Henry Cavill was given a shit hand.
Yeah, like I think, but yeah, like the I like this movie.
I like what James Gunn did. He I was very curious in what

(47:51):
direction he was going to take it regarding like the DCU, how
much and I was just really curious like how how much, how
much is like the like the superhero genre.
He was going to lean into it andhe leaned heavily into it.
Like if, OK, let me compare it to the Batman real quick,

(48:13):
because like the Batman, while it's it is a superhero movie, it
leaned more into like the realism, right?
The the crime detective aspect of it.
It really tried to stay grounded, like while the whole
world was kind of like, you know, kind of like laughing or
not laughing, but like we're allwe're all seeing it, right?
It's a fucking man who dressed up as a bat beating up people.

(48:34):
Like people like would laugh at that.
And like that didn't mean that did like that did happen like in
like the movie where like, oh, he's a freak.
Like he's a weirdo and like, youknow, that's how people would
react. So you know a guy dressing up as
a bat beating up people and whatever in Superman.
No superheroes are like a part of this universe.

(48:56):
Like my boy James Gunn got Superman wearing the fucking
trunks. Like for his Super his I will
say. That you you got to give him
credit just for that alone. Yeah, no, like the trunks.
You know what? I, I, I'm not a fan of them, but
I'm also like, not a hater like because I understand like.

(49:17):
The the the reason I like them is because the the cavil suit
for me, just the whole like the.All.
Blue, the Lycra full body suit thing that they did.
There's no contrast in that suit.
Yeah, like, yeah, you get the the Insignia, but the problem is
Snyder's color palette is so desaturated that they just looks

(49:42):
there's too much affinity in thesuit.
Right. Yeah.
So I did, I, I did like that James Gunn was like, I don't, I
don't want to say the word risk because I think that audiences
would have still watched this movie regardless if he put if he
had the trunks on for the costume or not.
But I did like that he kept it because it kind of like did feel

(50:03):
like James Gunn is like he's making a movie to himself if he
was a child, because I think that I think the Superman that
he took inspiration from was like the golden age or silver
age Superman, which would have been the Superman in from when
he was a kid. So I, it kind of feels like
James Gunn made this movie as anode to like hit like the comic

(50:25):
book version of Superman that hegrew up on because, man, this
Superman was cheesy, corny, likefull of hope.
And I loved it. I loved how like how naive this
representation of like Superman is.
You didn't like it. I liked it.
Like I like how he saved the fucking squirrel because, you

(50:47):
know, he values all life. And like, that's just how how
naive he is in that like he willlike he cares about air like
every like every living being, not just humans.
And I just love that as a contrast to like the Henry
Cavill Superman who's just sitting in like and a judge in
in front of a judge. And then there's like a bomb

(51:09):
that explodes and he is just like so composed while people
around him are dying in the explosion that he doesn't care.
Damn that. Was a mic drop right there?
Like just the contrast, like yo,like this Superman was just, it
represented hope, optimism, like, and I just, I loved it.
And like, again, like I, I do feel like, yeah, James Gunn like

(51:32):
leaned heavily into like the superhero genre even like just
like comic books in general. This did feel like a like a very
comic book campy movie and I liked it.
Yeah, OK. Now tell us why you hate this
film. Everybody, ladies and gentlemen
of the jury. Tell us why you love this film

(51:56):
and why you thought it was. It is generational and it's
going to change the lives that you want.
Please tell me. I liked Superman, but, but, but
I wanted to love it. That's the problem.
I wanted to love it. Yo, I kind of, I kind of, I'm
getting some deja vu right here.For all the reasons that Jesse

(52:17):
just said he liked it are honestly kind of the reasons
that I'm, I'm just really mixed on the movie because I, I think
that in some ways James Gunn is really leaning on the strengths
of the DC universe, the strengths that distinguish it

(52:42):
from the Marvel Universe. But at the same time, I think
leaning on those so hard, going for it so much, it's almost too
much to ask because there's so much going on in Superman.
It's the movie expects you to know who Superman is, who Lois

(53:05):
Lane is, who Lex Luthor is. They expect you to know
Superman's origin story, which OK for us and probably 90% of
the people that listen to this show that's fine.
But to the casual movie goer I think that's a lot for them to
take in. And then this movie has just
crazy bizarre sci-fi comic book concepts.

(53:30):
This movie introduces pocket universes, anti proton rivers in
the 1st movie of this universe. And I'm just sitting there
thinking, OK, look, this, this is ambitious.

(53:51):
But I, I don't know how much this this works for me.
And I want to be very clear about this.
I think the tone is correct. This is this is the tone I want.
This is the kind of Superman I want to see.
I don't want to see. The reason I was kind of
speechless is because I think that was the perfect example.

(54:14):
This Senate hearing full of people just gets blown to bits.
And Henry Cavill's Superman is just standing there like, well,
this, I mean, this didn't affectme.
Like blank expression? Yeah.
And David, Corn, sweat, Superman.
Oh, my goodness. This man, you know, he cares so

(54:36):
much about people. The one that stood out to me was
when he saved this woman during the the the bootleg Godzilla
fight. He flies her to the rooftop of a
building. And he tells her, slow, deep
breaths, Right. You'll be all right.
Yeah. You know, like this very small
interaction, but like that showshow much he cares about people.

(54:59):
Like you said, it's not just people, it's all life.
But this is the tone I want. This is the kind of
characterization I want to see for Superman.
But I think that earnestness is kind of undercut by the James
Gunn humor. And I'm not even this anti James
Gunn guy because I love the Suicide Squad.

(55:23):
I think the humor in that movie really works.
I loved Peacemaker, the humor inthat show works.
But I think considering the toneJames Gunn wanted for this
Superman movie, it's just a little weird when we have these
really endearing scenes, but then there's a dumb joke 22

(55:46):
seconds later, like, you know, we get back take take the very
beginning of the movie. It's a very serious scene in
concept, in execution. But then as as it comes to an
end, we get this, this comedic bit about crypto.

(56:10):
Why are you destroying the fortress Like you're you're
immediately sort of like undercutting the in media res
there? Right, Chad, all the reasons why
Dylan said that he he was not really feeling this film or why
he liked it instead of loving it.
Those are the reasons why I loved it.

(56:33):
Like I like that like how? Well, yes, it is a lot, but I
think I think that the the the type of audiences that are going
to watch Superman, they're already the type of audiences
that have already seen superheromovies.
I think like the, the percentageof audiences that are going to
watch this new Superman film whodon't know who Superman is, it's

(56:56):
probably going to be like under 10%.
So I think like 90% of people who are going to watch this
film, they already know the backstory, they already know the
lore. And it's like, rather than like
rehashing it out again, even if it's only for like 5 minutes or
whatever, he just like just threw you right into like the
middle of the movie, like right in the middle of like Superman's

(57:16):
life, like a year three or Year 5 Superman.
Yeah, like so it's like it's a new no, I'm sorry.
It it's not like a year one Superman.
It's like we're in the middle oflike, you know, sophomore year
type of shit stuff. He still hasn't graduated to
like, you know, being like that man like that, that we all know,
like being Superman. Like it seems like he's still

(57:37):
like learning about his powers and shit like that.
But like for all for all the reasons you said, like why you
like you're kind of partial to it.
You didn't like it. I liked it.
Yeah, they did introduce a lot, but I think this movie, this
movie was made for comic book fans, I think.
And if you're a fan, then you are going to like lose your

(57:59):
fucking mind watching this movieand like catching all the little
subtleties. I am not a big comic book nerd.
That would be you and cast, but cast is not here.
But it's like all these little like subtle, like like nods that
they show throughout the film, like, oh, here's like this, like

(58:20):
you said, Pocket universe is like Lex Luthor, the whole
justice gang and like all this other shit.
Like it's a lot. But it's kind of like if you
know something about comic booksand you, you, you're going to
like be able to take it in real quick.
And I, I, I do reckon I do like realize like where like your
view is coming from and that like it's very ambitious.

(58:41):
So like, if there's no, if there's, if there's only like 1
more DCU movie and then Warner Brother, like just pull the
plug. No, but like, if that happens
and it's like, oh, then yeah, then this movie, like it did too
much too fast because this movieonly works.
I shouldn't say only. So I'm going to say like my
qualifier only is like, you know, asterisks.

(59:03):
But this movie only works if there's like a sequel and
connected universe, because that's a that's that's what this
movie is trying to be. It's trying to like set up the
DCU more so than Iron Man. Like the post credit scene Iron
Man with the fucking I don't know if it's black or Nick Fury,
like, you know, building up to The Avengers, which come out

(59:24):
like 4 years, 3 or 4 years, fouryears later.
Like this movie is, is is is ambitious Superman and it's
setting up a lot. And if it does not deliver on
that, yeah, then looking back, this movie could be not as good
as I'm making it out to be. But if James Gunn and the DCU

(59:47):
delivers, Oh my God, this movie was fucking perfect.
Well it may not fucking perfect but like it's a good movie if it
can deliver on all the promises and all the seeds they setting
up. I agree with you that.
The success or maybe the legacy of this movie could very well be

(01:00:07):
contingent on what comes after it.
Because I think I told you and cast this, the bar that I set
for this movie because I knew itwasn't going to be as good as
The Batman. But what if it was?
Then I would have probably admitted that I was wrong.

(01:00:29):
The bar that I set for this movie was just be better than
Iron Man and be better than all of the MC US recent output.
But I think you made a really good point that it's kind of
difficult to compare Superman toIron Man because James Gunn, DC
and Warner Brothers, they have all of this pre-existing

(01:00:52):
knowledge of how to build a cinematic universe because
Marvel has already done it. So in that sense, it's not
entirely fair. But that was kind of the bar
that I was looking for. And I will say, oddly enough, I
was OK with the Justice Gang. Like that was one thing in the

(01:01:15):
movie that I was like, no, this makes sense to me.
That makes sense to me because Ithink their inclusion in the
movie serves A genuine narrativepurpose.
Like they are showing that theseare like these corporate
superheroes. And what makes Superman

(01:01:37):
different is that he does care about people.
He does have this. He believes in the sanctity of
life to the point where he's blowing dogs out from under
bootleg Godzilla to where he's saving squirrels.
And again, if you notice the fights that he's in, even with
the Justice Gang, the Justice Gang priority is taking down the

(01:01:59):
monster or whatever. Superman's priority is like
minimizing the casualties of life.
Property damage. No, no, folks are giving in
regards to property damage, but civilian life, like I
remembering like how the the thebootleg Godzilla fight went down
like Superman's priority was always on like life.

(01:02:20):
And I'm making sure that like, you know, civilians and to some
extent fucking bootleg Godzilla were OK, which I again like that
just goes to like my whole thinglike this movie is just really
optimistic and hopeful like this.
This is like the tone and like the direction I want to see
Superman in. But at the same time, if you you

(01:02:40):
if if I showed this movie to someone who has never heard of
like Marvel, DC and just played them a couple more movies and
then played this one, I don't think they'd be able to tell us
like that. This is supposed to be like this
is not in the MCU Because it didfeel like, you know, like the
comedy and like the tone like itfelt very MCU ish versus at

(01:03:04):
least like the dad, the Dak, theZack Snyder, like DCU.
It had its own like brand identity.
Yes. Was it a good identity?
No, of course not. But like, you could tell like,
hey, this is different from the MCU.
It was a certifiable disaster. Yes, but God damn it, it was an

(01:03:24):
original certified disaster. Yeah.
It was, yeah. But the Stiller movie like I
think, and maybe that's just because like James Gunn just
left like the MCU. So he still he still has like
that like those fragments of like, you know, like the MCU.
That's his dogma because like he's made other super other
superhero movies before that didnot have the MCU tone like

(01:03:48):
bright burn, like the Suicide Squad and even like the one
before bright burn. I think it was the one with the
slither. I haven't seen that one, but the
one with the Dwight from the office.
I think it was super or something.
But point being, like he's made like other superhero movies that

(01:04:08):
did not have like the the MCU tone.
I think this movie had the MCU tone.
And that's kind of like a small detriment in my opinion.
Because like, like when you're building out your identity and
like legacy for like this new movie, extended universe, you,
you have to like make it different from like those around
you. Like, if you watch the John Wick

(01:04:30):
movie and a Marvel movie, you would not.
You would be like, yeah, no, these are totally separate
universes, franchises. They're not related whatsoever.
This Superman movie and Thunderbolts, you could say that
they take place in the same universe, different cities, but
it's like same unit. The vibes are like very samey.

(01:04:50):
OK, So I think you made an interesting point that James
Gunn kind of has this, maybe this lingering almost
sensibility leftover from the MCU.
But what I was going to say is I'm glad that you you brought
this up because one thing I do really want to bring up, because

(01:05:15):
I feel like this is an original take, which is that the Justice
gang, to me, I thought what madethem so interesting was that
kind of felt like a shot at the MCU to me.
Because they are these kind of like militarized superheroes

(01:05:36):
that basically take the place oflaw enforcement and the military
responding in these emergency and disaster situations.
And they operate with a much more Gray sense of morality as
opposed to Superman. And that's very much how The
Avengers operate. The Avengers have an incredibly
high body count. But people, you know, we, we, we

(01:05:58):
don't want to talk about that. Right.
And also the justice gang is overseen by this mega
corporation owned by Maxwell Lord.
And you could easily make that analogous to Disney.
I, I thought that was maybe I'm looking into it way too much,
but I I thought. I think it's there.
That's interesting. It's there.

(01:06:18):
I think like, yeah, I, I, I can,I can see that.
Like it's there. Like he's definitely like it's,
it's, I shouldn't say definitely, but like, you know,
it's, you can interpret it that way.
So I think he didn't. He'd, he, he knew what he was
doing. We, we when he decided to
portray the justice, the JusticeGang in that way.
Yeah. And you can even tell by the way

(01:06:39):
that they all of their uniforms are very, they're just very.
Like that, like the same, Yeah, like that, like the same logo.
Like I know it's like when I, when I looked at their like
their chest logo, it was all thesame.
I was like, oh shit. Even in like Green Lantern, like
I was fighting at the Green Lantern logo.
Nope. It's the Justice Gang logo.
Yeah, and I think that's analogous to how all Marvel

(01:07:00):
movies look like this ugly Gray sludge color graded like a used
parking lot. Well said.
You know what? Very well said.
Yeah. So I think you, you, you can
infer that from the the justice game, but I also think like it's
not a stretch to come to that conclusion.

(01:07:21):
Like it's it's kind of there. And then I I don't know that I
think it it it's a smart like, you know, it's a smart little
nod or like shot. I think if you, if you want to
put it that way. But I I like that.
I like the inclusion of the justice gang.
But what's funny is that I thinkthis movie set up more and had

(01:07:44):
more, you know, extended universe shit than Zack Snyder's
Superman, A Man of Steel. As much as I I don't
particularly like that film besides like the music.
Charlotte to Hans Zimmer. That movie was at least like a
Superman movie. This movie very much felt like a

(01:08:05):
Justice League movie. Sure, Superman was like more
like present, but it felt like, you know, there's like an
assemble cast movie with like Superman being like the main
guy, but it was kind of like a Superman and Friends movie
versus just Superman. Like, it's like watching a
Batman movie, but instead of Batman, it's Batman with the Bat

(01:08:27):
Family, with Robin, Batgirl, Nightwing and all these other
like, side characters in the Batman universe.
Would that be cool to see on screen?
Yeah. But at the same time, like, you
do run the risk of like, walkingaway from or not walking away
necessarily, but like, you run the risk of like, not having,

(01:08:47):
like the movie not having its own identity.
And I brought this up last nightwhen we watched the film, it was
kind of similar to Captain America Civil War, where it felt
like a prelude to The Avengers movie versus being its own
Captain America movie. Like at least the first movie,
Captain America, that felt like a Captain America movie.
Winter Soldier, that felt like aCaptain America movie.

(01:09:10):
Civil War, it felt like a prelude to The Avengers movie.
And that's what this Superman movie kind of feels like.
As much as I do like it, it doesalso feel like a prelude to
what's going to come. And that goes a lot that that
goes along with like the point that I made that this movie's
legacy is completely like it's, it's riding on like what comes
next versus like at least Man ofSteel with kind of a standalone.

(01:09:33):
See, I think that kind of works as a flaw, though, because this,
yes, this is the start of James Gunn's DC Universe.
But first and foremost, it should be a story about
Superman. Yeah.
And I think because there is so much of this stuff happening, I
think it it kind of detracts from Superman and his story.

(01:09:56):
I mean, we barely get any sceneswith Clark Kent as Clark Kent.
I mean, we get a couple, but I Iwould have liked to see more of
that because kind of what you were just saying about Man of
Steel. One one of my big issues with
Zach and his DC EU was that he showed no interest in the

(01:10:19):
greater Superman universe. Like Zach did clearly not give a
shit about Lewis Lane or Perry White or the Daily Planet or
Jimmy Olsen right? And that's proved by the fact
that he had Jimmy Olsen get shotin the head in Batman V Superman
without even acknowledging that that was Jimmy Olsen.

(01:10:40):
Unless you watch the stupid Ultimate Cut.
Bro, I was going to say like Jimmy Olsen was in the Zack
Snyder films. Exactly.
Oh, shit, yeah. And then like James Gunn gave
Jimmy Olsen like, oh, the aura, bro.
My my boy Jimmy Olsen can't pullbitches.
Jimmy Olsen, the Sex God. You know what's funny?

(01:11:03):
Like I stayed off the Internet all day yesterday when I watched
this film because I didn't want to read spoilers.
But after like watching this film, Oh yeah, I got on the
Internet. I got I went on Reddit.
I saw like the Superman like mega thread bro.
One of the funniest comments I read was like, you know what,
like what if like Jimmy Olsen like you know how he has like
the contact, like the contact ofthe the the Super hot chick as

(01:11:28):
like mutant toes or something like that.
One of the comments was like, yo, what if like her toes are
actually just fine. But like that's just Jimmy Olsen
like showing how non committal he is that he'll just find an
excuse to like not date someone.And I just.
Thought that was kind of fired. Yeah, I thought that was fired
because I'm like, you know what?They make Jimmy Olsen the sex
God but also like super non committal.

(01:11:50):
Well, that's how it is, you know, those kind of guys,
they'll like the ones that don'twant to commit, don't look for
any little thing that they thinkis an issue and they'll latch.
Dude that's a great shout out tothat poster man.
But like again, see, I feel likeI'm tip toeing or I'm flip
flopping because I'll be like, you know, if I like well, we it

(01:12:12):
did this, it didn't do that goodor this might be a detriment.
But then here I am being like, you know what?
What this movie did do right is that it did have like it did
include those side characters like it made them involved in
the story. Like Jimmy Olsen, he plays a
role in the story. Maybe not so much like Perry
White and like some of the othercharacters, but like I.
Think he got kind of lost in theshuffle, but yeah.

(01:12:34):
But like the casting was. Perfect, perfect.
Like Lois Lane, like her, what she did, Jimmy Olsen.
Like what they like the minor characters like they did play
somewhat of a role in the film. Like they were not just
relegated to just like being in the background.
I get what like ultimately like you could make the argument that
it was Lois Lane and like the Daily the Daily Planet that

(01:12:55):
brought down Lex Luthor and not Superman.
Well, they were, well, going back to Jimmy Olsen, the sex
God. I mean, the whole reason they
knew that Superman was in a pocket universe is because he
was able to. He has all these women.
Yeah, like as contacts, as sources, right?

(01:13:16):
And I just love that because it's just like, yo, it makes it
be like, makes it seem like, yo,who the fuck is Jimmy Olsen?
Like, how is he pulling all these, like, baddies?
And that's what I love, like, inthis movie, like the way that
James Gunn like, decides like, hey, like, I want to make Jimmy
Olsen like, you know, just I want to give him more flair.
For like the movie that James Gunn humor that works, though,

(01:13:39):
Yeah. Like, because it's it's not
taking away from what should be like the central theme or just
like Tenet of the movie, which is this hope and optimism.
Like, yeah, Jimmy Olsen, he's he's kind of a player, but like,
he, he does it in a way that's straight, like James Gunn isn't

(01:14:03):
like he's not super. Suave with it, yeah.
He's not. Like, he's not romanticizing it.
He's not. He ain't no Bruce.
Wayne, he's not overly criticizing it.
Yeah. He's just like, this is a this
is a thing that happens. Yeah.
And I'm going to decide we're going to make Jimmy Olsen this
way. Like I thought that like that.
I thought that works. James Gunn humor.

(01:14:23):
I think I was like, great. I was with it like Jimmy Olsen,
the sex card. I was like, I didn't like there
were some curveballs like James Gunn threw at me here, and that
was one of them. But.
Yeah, because in the first scene, like when those two

(01:14:44):
women, they kind of like wave athim from the male.
Yeah, yeah. My first thought was, you know
what, they're pretty young, maybe just have a crush on him.
But then no, there's like this whole past relationship between
Jimmy Olsen and Lex Luthor's like.
Current girlfriend or whatever. It's like you're like how?

(01:15:05):
Damn. And it's not explained.
It's not even explained to how or why.
It's just James Gunn just shows it and you're you.
That's something I don't need. I don't need that explained.
To no, no, for sure. That's why it exactly.
But what I'm saying it what I want to say is that like James
Gunn just shows it. He doesn't even try to excuse it
or like come up with a reason orexplanation.
It's just like as you said, like, yeah, like this is how it

(01:15:27):
is. Hell yeah.
And I, I, I love that. But yeah, I think we've given
enough of our first impressions because like, I think there's
more I want to say, but. Then yeah, this is gonna turn to
the Super, Yeah. This is gonna turn to the I.
Wanted to. Once you brought up Jimmy Olsen,
I got I was like, am I talking myself into liking this already?

(01:15:49):
We. Wanna do the deep dive after I
rewatch it. I don't know if Jesse wants to
rewatch. It I'm gonna rewatch it.
OK, OK, so we're gonna rewatch it and then we'll come back and
do a serious one. But I don't dislike it.
I definitely don't hate it. Last thing I'm gonna say, last
thing I'm going to say. I saw so many people say this is
like a serious overcorrection from the biblical seriousness of

(01:16:13):
the Snyder. DCEUI could not disagree with
that more. I think the tone is there.
It's just what I said earlier inmy personal spiel was I think
sometimes the gun humor undercuts that tone that is
really, really important. But is it an overcorrection?
Absolutely not. You're telling me we need some

(01:16:35):
gun control? He's right.
Too much gun control. Yeah, You know what?
Like I I can see why people would say that.
I I don't know if I would say that, but I can see the
sentiment like, yeah, like this movie feels like the complete
180 from like the Zack Snyder movie.

(01:16:56):
But I said this to you yesterday, like, I don't think
that's fair to Zack Snyder's Manof Steel because it James Gunn
is making that he made this movie like now that he has like,
you know, the perspective like that we have now, it's like Zack
Snyder didn't have like the MCU perspective back then, even as
he was still trying to build outa new universe modeling the MCU.

(01:17:17):
I think now James going to have a better framework play.
Tried to build the DC EU right after the first Avengers.
So like they had like the general conceit.
Yeah. Yeah, but they didn't have like
this whole blueprint that James Gunn, I mean, James Gunn is
coming into this thing. He's.
Got like a 10 year. Plan and even more so like. 5

(01:17:39):
movies found out. Recently, James Gunn is the
person that came up with the lore for the Infinity Stones, an
Infinity War. Really.
That wasn't even Joe and AnthonyRusso or the screenwriters
Christopher Marcus and Stephen Mcfeely.
That was James Gunn. But I mean, that happens a lot
where people are just uncreditedwriters because they'll like,
say, hey, you know, like change this or just maybe this will

(01:18:01):
work better. Like that happens all the time
in Hollywood. I mean, technically Aaron Sorkin
is an uncredited writer on Fuck.It's a movie that just came out.
But a lot of people were saying like, why isn't this movie
better if Aaron Sorkin rewrote it?
And I'm like thinking it's probably because he didn't
rewrite that much. Like, you know, sometimes people

(01:18:24):
just come in and out of the writers room and say.
You know, like add one line for like per union like regulations
like are you, you'll contribute one line, you gotta give that
credit or whatever. That's fair.
Yeah, but I, you know, I don't think it's an overcorrection.
I I don't but and, and you know what?
I'm gonna, I'm gonna throw Zack Snyder another compliment.

(01:18:48):
I said this in episode 10, but Ithink it's still absolutely
true. Nobody has visualized super
strength better as a power than Zack Snyder.
I mean, I think for as intense as the fight scenes.
See, this is something I'm goingto need to talk about in the the
actual Superman episode, the fight scenes 'cause that lens
choice was fucking terrible. Maybe I'll change my mind when

(01:19:11):
we rewatch it. Zack Snyder, the way that he
shot Superman fighting, not the battle of Metropolis was Zod.
That was that was just nonsense.That was so over the top.
That was like Dragon Ball Z. I'm talking about Superman in
Smallville against the Kryptonians.

(01:19:33):
Jesus Christ, the way he shot that, like you could, I could
feel like the boom of these, these Kryptonians.
I was like, that's a movie. Like, I know this might be a
weird thing to say, but I think most people understand what I'm
saying. Like the way Zach shot that
shit, it gave you the impressionthat if I were to be hit by one

(01:19:58):
of these people, I'm done. Right.
Like you know, and I don't I don't think Gunn did that.
Not saying the action scenes in this Superman sucked, but the
just the way Zach conceptualizedsuper strength that still kind
of blows me away. Yeah, no, that's fair.

(01:20:20):
Like that is like like a compliment that I I would have
give Zachary. But like he, he, he, while his
storytelling might not be the best, his action scenes, like he
knows how to direct an action scene.
Maybe James Gunn should have like, like, yo, how do I, like,

(01:20:40):
get get this punch right? Yeah.
Similar to like, you know, how like, Christopher Nolan reached
out to, like, Michael Bay and was like, yo, exactly.
You know, maybe they needed somecollaboration like that.
But you know what? I like that because so many
people are trying to manufacturethis dumb war between Gunn and
Snyder. Bro sane, I see that.
Snyder They're perfectly amicable, like they're cool with

(01:21:05):
each other. Yeah, it's their fucking fans
that bro have the problem with. Each other.
You feel like the Snyder fans are trying to cancel this movie
already? Like boycott this movie like bro
like get a fucking. Yeah, guys, I have something for
you. It's a job application.

(01:21:25):
And on that note, that was beautiful.
But anyways, we're going to giveour deep dive because Superman
later if we already went a deeper dive.
Our. Deeper dive, OK, because like,
yeah, I I meant to just go for our first impressions, but

(01:21:45):
somehow I think we ended up talking about Superman, just as
long as we talked about ballerina.
Yeah, probably. All right, Chad, I hope you like
that Superman's impression. Stick around for the next
episode where we'll be diving deeper into Superman because but
yeah, even talked about Mr. Terrific or like AT Spears.
Yeah, yeah. There's a lot more to say We.

(01:22:06):
Haven't even talked about Lex really.
Yeah, bro, I I'm going to say this.
I'm going to say this. There's the only thing I'm going
to say about Lex Luthor. Nicholas Holt fucking killed it.
I agree, and this is the only thing I'm going to say about Mr.
Terrific. We're going to do the opposite
of the characters we mentioned. Fun fact, Mr. Terrific is played

(01:22:27):
by Eddie Guthiege, who was Doctor Cole in Season 4 of
House, MD, also known by the nickname Big Love Who.
Had a bet? With the rest of the interns to
acquire the thong of 1. Lisa Cuddy.
There you go. That's the kind of hard hitting

(01:22:48):
fun trivia that I bring to this show as the Film Snob.
You're welcome. I know you all wanted to go home
with that. Thank, thank thank you for like,
letting me know that I haven't watched House in a minute, but
damn. I rewatch it every year.

(01:23:09):
I I, I thought, I thought Mr. Terrific looked familiar.
You know what made me realize itwas him?
Was the voice actually? I know I've seen him something
else but I I went to look up hiswiki to see what else he was in
but good. Yeah, I rewatch House every
year. A couple years ago, rewatched it

(01:23:32):
with my dad. He ended up loving it 'cause,
you know, he likes how edgy House is, right?
Last year I watched it with my mom.
My mom liked it just because shelikes medical dramas.
But my mom has finally acknowledged, 'cause she, my
mom, she does like, you know, Grey's Anatomy and stuff like
that. But my mom has conceded House,

(01:23:56):
MD is the best medical drama. Damn that's how your praise is
coming from. Like someone who likes medical
dramas. Good for.
Her and I know everybody's goingto say it's the pit, but guys,
the pit is great but. Ain't no house, MD.
No, it's not. House has this edge and this

(01:24:17):
like psychological exploration to to all of its characters that
I just don't think any medical drama has has been able to to
quite understand. Right.
Yeah, fair enough, Chat. Thank you for coming along with
this on this spiritual journey, talking about Ballerina and why

(01:24:41):
I was disappointed that it wasn't as great as I thought it
was going to be, but that's totally on me.
But then you were here to hear how much I love Superman and it
was everything I wanted it to be.
That last sentence is a lie, butI did like Superman.
I will come back to you next week with some deeper dive
thoughts regarding Superman. But in any case, thank you Chad

(01:25:04):
for tuning in to this week's episode of Below the Line
podcast. We hope to hear.
We hope to entertain you some more soon.
Yes. Thank you for listening
everybody. And if anybody is new here, go
check out the Transformers video.
Give it a like more plugs. Subscribe to the channel
youtube.com forward slash at nightfall films.

(01:25:27):
And of course, the best and mosteffective way to support the
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Maybe share your favorite episode with a friend or a
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they're not ready to fully come on board.
Share your favorite episode and we'll go from there.

(01:25:48):
Hopefully we can convert them ourselves.
Exactly, my recommendation will be to show them episode 8 the
Joker master class. I don't know why man, I don't
know why it's my favorite episode, but maybe check that
one out. Yeah, maybe.
Yeah, exactly. Maybe check out episode 8
Unpacking Joker Foley do. Or maybe episode 15.
Judgement Bay, because apparently there are more of us

(01:26:10):
than I thought. Well said.
With that being said. Yes, with that being said,
running through the show notes, thank you to Levi for composing
the intro music. Thank you to Jesse for the
artwork, and of course, thank you to the 36 dedicated
listeners. Thank you to the 159 YouTube

(01:26:33):
subscribers. You guys the real MVP, man.
Yeah, I mean, I was gonna drop aTransformers quote, but I don't
think it's appropriate, so I'm gonna let you guess which one I
was gonna quote. That'll be it for.
Today, there you go. What?
Would you? What would Jesus do?

(01:26:54):
You know what Jesus would do? Subscribe.
Yup, thumbs up. Thank you.
Yes, thank you. That's all that we have for you
today. Peace Plants.
Namaste.